EFTA02658297.pdf

From: jeffrey E. <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 8:24 PM To: Joscha Bach Subject: Re: i see it as a complex system agents are buildi=g many things. dependent on the local condition. some take off=as useful in other parts of the system, monkeys using to=ls? I think the term intelligence is too vague. . a crab using=a lure to catch its prey. is a bio inspired prosthetic. =C24o it arguaabley evolved. but cant be sur=. On M=n, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Joscha Bach . >=/span> wrote: So you don't think that practical intelligence is th= ability to build arbitrary prosthetics? I agree =hat humans share an important similarity with cells, i.e. they have mechan=sms that suppress individual competition when it conflicts too much with g=oup selection. Without such mechanisms, group selection fails, because wit=in each group, defectors have a local advantage. =he simplest mechanism to enforce cooperation is reputation, but it works o=ly when others are looking, and manage to keep tallies. To do better than =hat, evolution has to breed a virtual next level regulator into the indivi=ual, which may be your missing "top down for humans". A syste= of norms and taboos, for instance a religion or ideology that people pick=up from their environment. Individuals can decide= but in social contexts, the utility of decisions is given by how well we =nderstand the constraints under which we operate. </=iv> Am Mar 6, 2017 um 10:50 AM schr=eb jeffrey E. <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]»: no, i disagree = the spaceship is only an advanced prostthetic. . . not =nteresting at all. . interesting is we have no idea what the top do=n for humans is. . collective . group behavior, I dont=see any differnce between humans and cells , just a diff=rent layer of the same. . regulatory systems. action s =eedbacks and " learning " all with no goal . Q=A0the goals are illusions. . that the indiv thinks they decide. lik= the soldier ant that is recapitualted to a garbage ant if the garbage ant= are wiped out. the soldier ant thinks it made the decsion. =C240. On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Joscha Bach < <mailto: » wrote: Exactly! Sensors like that are often one of these=solution that get you 80% of the way with 20% of the effort. Except that m=nds that take 15 years to train are o dramatically more expensive that alm=st no species can afford them (but they end up getting you to the moon, wh=ch no prosthesis can). EFTA_R1_01904868 EFTA02658297  Am Mar 6, 2017 urn 7:08 AM schrieb jeffrey E. <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]»: they may have physical prothesitcs 40=A0 like cat whiskers. to enable it to guage widith of hole..=A0 On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 8:03 PM, Joscha Bach < i<=a» wrote: Most animals don 1=;t have a self model, probably because they don't have complex enough =rains or long enough training phases (childhoods) to do meta-regulation. > On Mar 5, 2017, at 16:48, jeffrey E. <[email protected] <mailto:jeevacation=gmail.com» wrote: > Law of large numbers is all that is needed > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 5:46 PM Joscha Bach < <mailto:[email protected]» wrote: > I am not sure how to relate that to game theory; you may be able to ge= that without evolutionary competition. However, game theory is probably t=e way to explain how we evolve submission to norms beyond indirect recipro=ity. » On Mar 5, 2017, at 12:12, jeffrey E. <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]» wrote: >> » i wonder in game theory what advantage it gives. . > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 12:11PM, Joscha Bach < wr=te: > absolutely. so are truth and meaning >> > Am 05.03.2017 urn 11:52 schrieb jeffrey E. <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]»: >> >» i is a mental construct that gives an evolutionary adva=tage , . >>> > » On Sun, Mar S, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Joscha Bach com>= wrote: > » I believe that I think, but am "I" the agent of thi=king? >>> On Mar 5, 2017, at 08:34, jeffrey E. <[email protected]> w=ote: 2 EFTA_R1_01904869 EFTA02658298  >» > >>> I sugggest the expression really shoul= be "I think, therefore I believe I am" »» »» »» »»-- >» > please note > >» The information contained in this communication is > >» confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may > >» constitute inside information, and is intended only forar> > >» the use of the addressee. It is the property of »» JEE >>> Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this >>> communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited=br> > >» and may be unlawful. If you have received this > >» communication in error, please notify us immediately byar> > >» return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected] <[email protected]> , and > >» destroy this communication and all copies thereof, > >» including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserve= >» »> >» »> »> > » -- >» please note >» The information contained in this communication is >» confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may > » constitute inside information, and is intended only for > » the use of the addressee. It is the property of »>JEE > » Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this > » communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited > » and may be unlawful. If you have received this > » communication in error, please notify us immediately by >» return e-mail or by e-mail [email protected] <mailto:jeevacation@g=ail.com> , and > » destroy this communication and all copies thereof, > » including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved >> >> >> > > -- » please note > The information contained in this communication is > confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may > constitute inside information, and is intended only for > the use of the addressee. It is the property of » JEE » Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this > communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited 3 EFTA_R1_01904870 EFTA02658299  > and may be unlawful. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately by > return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected] <mailto:jeevacation@gmail=com> , and » destroy this communication and all copies thereof, > including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved > please note > The information contained in this communication is > confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may > constitute inside information, and is intended only for > the use of the addressee. It is the property of > JEE > Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this > communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited > and may be unlawful. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately by > return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> , and > destroy this communication and all copies thereof, > including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved plea=e note The information contained in this communication is confi=ential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside inform=tion, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the prop=rty of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this commun=cation or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. =f you have received this communication in error, please notify us immed=ately by return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected] <mailto:jeevacation@gm=il.com> , and destroy this c=mmunication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyrigh= -all rights reserved 4 EFTA_R1_01904871 EFTA02658300  =C24> please note The information containe= in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileg=d, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the u=e of the addressee. It is the property of JEE Unauthorized use, disc=osure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly =rohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communicati=n in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail =o [email protected] <[email protected]> , and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, =ncluding all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved </=iv> please n=te The information contained in this communication is confident=al, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside informatio=, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property=of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communicat=on or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If y=u have received this communication in error, please notify us immediate=y by return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected] <mailto:jeevacation@gmail.=om> , and destroy this commu=ication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -a=I rights reserved 5 EFTA_R1_01904872 EFTA02658301