EFTA00091769.pdf

1 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OTHER APPEARANCES: OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 12, 2019 FENTON TRANSCRIPTION Phone: 3 4 1 MR. : Today is Monday, August 1 Basis. Do you have any questions about this 2 12. The followin will be a voiiiiiii 2 form? 3 interview of in 3 MR. No. 4 furtherance o OIG investigation to be 4 MR. : : Would you like time to 5 determined, for the purpose of transcription, S review it with an attorney, or would you like 6 will now identify all present in the interview. 6 an attorniiiiiii? 7 I'll ask everyone to say and spell their last 7 MR. : For now, I don't need an 8 name, as well as identify their working title 8 attorney. 9 and employer. 9 MR. : Okay. Are you currently 10 I am S ecial Agent , 10 under the influence of any substances, or is 11 Office of the Inspector General. 11 there any reason to prevent you from fully 12 MR. : Special Agent , - 12 understanding my questions and answering 13 with the FBI. 13 truthfull toda ? 14 MR. . , 14 MR. : No. 15 Federal Bureau of Prisons. Selling of the 15 MR. : I'll now swear you to the 16 name is first name is , last name is 16 statements you're about to make. Please raise 17 17 your hand and re'eat after me. 18 18 I 19 IR. : Thank you. Warden 19 MR. : I, . 20 -- 20 MR. : Hereby solemnly swear or 21 MR. : Um-hum. 21 affirm. 22 MR. : -- you have reviewed and 22 MR. : Hereby solemnly swear or 23 signed Department of Justice OIG Form 226-2 23 affirm. 24 which is Warnings and Assurances of Employees 24 MR. : That the statements that 25 Request to Provide Information on a Voluntary 25 I'm about to make. EFTA00091769  S 6 1 MR. : That the statements I'm 1 been the Warden? 2 about to make. 2 MR. . I've been here since May of 3 MR. : Shall be the truth and the 3 2018. 4 whole truth. 4 MR. : Okay, great. Just, your S MR. • Shall be the truth and the S role, you've done a lot of internal 6 whole truth. 6 investigations with the prison and you've MR. : Thank you, sir. 7 worked with the Department of Justice for -- 8 MR. Um-hum. 8 MR. Um-hum. n 9 MR. : =Would you mind 9 MR. : -- moving forward, just as 10 telling us a little bit about your career with 10 a note for the record, you're aware that 11 BOP? When you started, how you became a 11 failure to be honest with us today would be 12 Warden? 12 considered a criminal offense; correct? 13 MR. Uh -- 13 MR. Yes. Mi Mi 14 MR. : How you moved up the 14 MR. : Okay, great. Let's talk a 15 ranks. 15 little bit about some overall policies at the 16 16 prison to start with. 17 17 MR. Okay. Mi 18 18 MR. : So, actually let me back 19 19 up. We're here today to talk about, 20 20 specificall Jeffrey Epstein. 21 21 MR. • Um-hum. 22 22 MR. : The inmate. 23 23 MR. Um-hum. 24 24 MR. : Would you mind just 25 : Great. How ong have you 25 telling us a little bit about when, your 7 8 1 understanding of when he arrived and that type 1 weren't. 2 of, when he arrived, how he was placed, where 2 MR. : Okay. 3 he was placed and the reasons behind that? 3 MR. : You know, I mean, we saw it 4 MR. IIIIIII: I don't remember the 4 on the news, but it didn't say. They just said S specific date he arrived, but we didn't, what S they had him in custody, but we didn't get any 6 happened was, we weren't told that he was going 6 formal, I didn't get any formal notice that he 7 to be comin to the institution. 7 had been brought into the institution. 8 MR. : Okay. 8 So, he was dropped off, and you know, the 9 MR. : When he initially came, he 9 Lieutenant on shift processed him in and 10 was dropped off on the weekend, and we didn't 10 brought him into the institution. We didn't 11 find out until Monday, myself, that he had been 11 find out or realize it until Monday. 12 placed at the institution. And from then on, 12 MR. : So, it was Monday that you 13 we, you know, went through the whole process of 13 first were officially made aware of it? 14 the screening, his medical stuff. Just normal 14 MR. : That I was made aware. You 15 procedures that we follow and (Indiscernible 15 know, we found out, and I don't remember if it 16 *00:04:04). 16 was from looking at the news reports, we put it 17 MR. : Okay. Now when you say 17 together that he had been brought into the 18 "he was dropped off over the weekend", when 18 institution. We went through our Monday 19 somebody arrives at the facility, what's the 19 morning meeting that we went through. So, 20 normal -- 20 that's when -- 21 MR. : I mean typically if 21 MR. : When he first arrived, was 22 somebody's that high profile -- 22 he placed in general population? Do you know 23 MR. : Um-hum. 23 where he iiiiiiiced? 24 MR. : -- we should've been 24 MR. : I don't recall where he was 25 notified and said hey, he's coming in. We 25 placed when he came in. EFTA00091770  9 10 1 MR. : At some point, he was 1 MR. : But as far as you know, 2 placed in S ecial Housing Unit? 2 that Monday, the first business day after the 3 MR. : Yes. 3 weekend he was initially dropped off. 4 MR. : Known as the SHU. 4 MR. : Right. S MR. : Right. 5 MR. : From that point forward, 6 MR. : how did he end up there? 6 was he ever in eneral population? 7 MR. : Well, he was a new 7 MR. : No. 8 commitment. He was high profile. So, we 8 MR. : Okay. What are the 9 placed him in the Special Housing Unit so we 9 policies in terms of, or is there policy that 10 can further evaluate, you know, his status. Is 10 dictates when somebody goes into general 11 he ready for general population? And we do 11 population from the SHU after the first 12 that with all inmates, but -- 12 arrival? 13 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : Well, what we do is we 14 MR. : -- and then to see, okay, 14 evaluate the individual to see if they're ready 15 any separation issues. Any threats to him, 15 for general population, if they can hang, you 16 before we put him out there in general 16 know -- 17 population. 17 MR. : Um-hum. 18 MR. : Was he ever in general 18 MR. -- if they can populate. 19 population? 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : I don't recall. I don't, 20 MR. : And it's a number of 21 I'm not sure if it might've been the first day 21 factors. It depends. I mean, if I have a gang 22 when he came in. 22 member coming in, I'm taking into consideration 23 MR. : Okay. 23 separation issues on it. If it's, you know, 24 MR. : But I'm not sure, so I mean, 24 somebody that might've been fraud or bank 25 I would have to look at the 37 to confirm. 25 fraud, then we determine if it's any issues of 11 12 1 them going into the general population. So, 1 MR. : Okay. 2 it's a case-by-case basis on how we determine 2 MR. : So, between evaluating him, 3 it. 3 at the same time, we're looking at saying, 4 MR. : Okay. What are the 4 okay, can he o to general population. policies in terms of when you're notified if S MR. : Um-hum. 6 someone enters Special Housing Unit or is 6 MR. : So, it's a dual role that 7 discharged from Special Housing Unit? 7 we're goin to -- 8 MR. : Well what it is is, it's 8 MR. : Sure. 9 routed the individual, it's called a Release 9 MR. : But I had gotten word, and I 10 Form. So, several people sign it. They review 10 don't recall the date, where from my Regional 11 it. I believe psychology, CMC, the Captain, 11 Director which stated he's not to go to general 12 and it goes to the Associate Warden and then 12 population until further notice. 13 they sign what we call is a Kick-Out. Meaning 13 MR. : The Regional Director, 14 everybody's reviewed it and said, okay, this 14 where is that in the chain of command for BOP? 15 person isiiiiiiiiiate for general population. 15 MR. : We have five regional 16 MR. : Okay. For Mr. Epstein, 16 offices. 17 after that, he was never put in general 17 MR. : Okay. 18 population. correct? 18 MR. : Each region has a Regional 19 MR. No. 19 Director. 20 MR. : Was the determination to 20 MR. : Okay. 21 keep him in Special Housing? What was the 21 MR. : This is the Northeast 22 communication that goes on there? 22 Region. 23 MR. : Well we, now initially when 23 MR. : Okay. 24 he came in, it's the goal to determine, okay, 24 MR. : Where we have 21 25 can they go to general population. 2S institutions. So, he supervises and is in EFTA00091771  13 14 1 charge of the 21 institutions. 1 MR. Right. 2 MR. : Okay. So, is he -- 2 MR. IIIIIIIII: Okay. After Mr. 3 MR. (Indiscernible *00:08:37). 3 told you to keep him, or it was agreed upon -- 4 MR. -- your direct supervisor? 4 MR. : Um-hum. 5 MR. He's my director supervisor. S MR. -- to keep him in Special 6 MR. : Oka . Who is that? 6 Housing Unit. 7 MR. phonetic sp.). MR. Right. 8 MR. 7 8 MR. : Who did you notify that he 9 MR. Yeah. 9 was to stay in the Special Housing Unit? How 10 MR. : And Mr. told you, 10 does that communication -- 11 do you recall if it was verbally or an email? 11 MR. : So, what it does is I get my 12 Phone call? 12 exec staff to ether -- 13 MR. : We had talked about it, too, 13 MR. : Um-hum. 14 but I would have to check if there was an email 14 MR. : -- which is my Associate 15 to go with it. But we did talk and said, hey, 15 Wardens, the Captain, my exec, and we have our 16 we're going to hold off on putting him out in 16 meetings, and I tell them he's not, you know, I 17 general 17 lay out the specific instructions. He's not to 18 MR. : Okay. Do you recall when 18 go out to eneral population. And -- 19 you officially were, you and Mr. , spoke 19 MR. : Were there, sorry. 20 about this? 20 MR. Co ahead. 21 MR. : I don't want to give you the 21 MR. No. 22 wrong date. But it was within that, you know, 22 MR. : And that's basically how we 23 maybe a ciiiiiiiiiks after he arrived. 23 start. 24 MR. : Okay. So, it was a few 24 MR. : Okay. 25 weeks after he arrived -- 25 MR. Er Yeah. 15 16 1 MR. : Were there any other 1 they would be housed by themselves. They could 2 specific directions or instructions given to 2 have an incident in the institution, you know, 3 the staff re him? 3 for example our gang members, somebody has an 4 MR. : Well, so at the time of him 4 issue, and for example, the Bloods, then we 5 staying in there, we had to find him initially S have to say hey, let's separate him from there. 6 a roommate. 6 You know? 7 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : Was there any directions 8 MR. : So, and it's hard especially 8 specifically that Mr. Epstein was to have a 9 in Special Housing Unit when you've got gang 9 cellmate at all times? 10 members in there that are not appropriate to be 10 MR. : From psychology when -- 11 housed with. So, we came up with, I came up 11 MR. : Okay. 12 with Tartaglione, who was in there. White 12 MR. : -- said hey, that he's 13 male, probably be able to cope with him. And 13 required, he needs to have a cellmate at all 14 that's typically how we, you know, that's part 14 times. 15 of the evaluation process. 15 MR. : Okay. And that occurred 16 MR. : Is it standard for inmates 16 later on? When he first arrived, there was no 17 in Special Housing Unit to have cellmates? 17 specific directions regarding that; correct? 18 MR. : We typically would like for 18 MR. : No, it wasn't. 19 them to have it. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : Sure. 20 MR. : Wait, let me. 21 MR. : But certain situations 21 MR. : Sure. 22 dictate that they can. If an inmate's a total 22 MR. : You mean when he first came 23 separation from a group, and we get word from 23 in were we talkin about him having a cellmate? 24 US Attorney's office or the arresting agents 24 MR. : Initially. 25 that, hey, he's to be totally separated, then 25 MR. : I don't recall any talks EFTA00091772  17 18 1 about him. 1 in, you know, he was high profile. So, we 2 MR. : Okay. 2 brought him in to determine -- 3 MR. : Initially, and trying to 3 FEt1ALE VOICE: Excuse me. 4 figure out when he first came in, how he was 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 housed. I don't recall how he was housed when S FEt1ALE VOICE: Can you guys step out here 6 he first came in but -- for just a moment? 7 MR. : Okay. The MCC is no 7 MR. : We, pausing the interview 8 stranger to hi h profile -- 8 at 10:SS a.m. (tape paused). 9 MR. : Right. 9 We're resuming the interview with Warden 10 MR. -- inmates. Generally 10 11 speaking, how do you normally, or generally 11 MR. 12 handle these type of high profile inmates? Any 12 MR. 13 other special considerations or concerns. How 13 MR. : Yeah. 14 does this work? 14 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:00:14). 15 MR. : Again, you come in. We 15 The time is now 10:56. Joining the interview 16 evaluate him to determine, okay, if they can go 16 room is Assisting United States Attiiiiiiirom 17 out to general population or not. We've had, 17 the Southern District of New York, 18 you know, we've had a bunch that come in that 18 19 were able to go out. We had (phonetic 19 MS. 20 sp.), you know, the phone thillon't know if 20 MR. , I apologize. 21 you recall, the one that sent the bombs to the 21 Can you spell your name for transcription 22 ex-presidents. 22 purposes? 23 MR. : Indiscernible *00:12:41). 23 MS. : Sure. 24 MR. : Okay. 24 . Thanks. 25 MR. : Him. So, when he first came 25 MR. : Thank you. Before we were 19 20 1 just going over some of the overall high- 1 MR. : Okay. 2 profile inmates and the general -- 2 MR. W I So, it wasn't like I had to 3 MR. Um-hum. 3 be updated as to where he was. I knew where he 4 MR. : -- evaluation of them. 4 was. 5 Going back to, you said earlier that a few MR. : Okay. 6 weeks had occurred. You and the Regional 6 MR. W I I mean, I knew that he went 7 Director discussed keeping Epstein in the 7 on his attorney visits, spent the whole day 8 Special Housin Unit. there. Would be the first one in, last one 9 MR. : Um-hum. 9 out. So, I mean, that's what I knew. And then 10 MR. : How often was the Regional 10 I kind of (Indiscernible *00:02:06) with the 11 Director bein briefed on Epstein? 11 attorneys. I had some outside attorneys 12 MR. : I guess the situation 12 complain about, you know, they were taking up 13 dictated it. If something happened, then we'd 13 the attorney room. So, I knew that was, you 14 notify him, or he needed some questions for 14 know, those issues were coming up with the 15 him, he would call me. But I don't want to, I 15 attorney room. 16 don't recall the specific amount of times. But 16 MR. : Okay. Going back to 17 we were in contact. 17 general policies at the -- 18 MS. : Um-hum. 18 MR. : Um-hum. 19 MR. Frequent contact. 19 MR. • -- within the BOP, 20 MR. : Okay. How often were you, 20 actually when stein arrive -- 21 are you notified differently of high-profile 21 MR. : Um-hum. 22 inmates or how often were you being aware or 22 MR. : I think we already 23 notified iiiiiiiein's housing situation? 23 covered this, but just to, were any special 24 MR. : Well, I mean, he was in the 24 arrangements or considerations given to him? 25 Special Housing Unit. So, I knew where he was. 25 MR. : As far as -- EFTA00091773  21 22 1 MR. : Obviously you said earlier 1 MR. : Okay. When -- 2 he was put in the SHU on Monday. 2 MR. • -- that he was taking. 3 MR. Right. 3 MR. : When inmates come into the n 4 MR. : After, was it, at that 4 MCC, are they all screened for mental health point, was there any issues that you're aware 5 issues or medical issues? 6 of regarding him? Anything that you needed to 6 MR. : Well, yes. They come in, 7 be aware of other than just who he was? 7 you're screened for your medical. The unit 8 MR. : No. lust who he was and the 8 team screens you and psychology screens you. 9 basic scriiiiiiiiiThe intake screening. 9 But -- 10 MR. : Okay. At the time he 10 MR. : What timeframe does that 11 first arrived, did you have any, was there any 11 occur? 12 notification of any mental health concerns? 12 MR. : Typically like with him, he 13 MR. : No, not that I know of. 13 came in on the weekend. So, it depends if 14 MR. : Okay. How -- 14 there was a psychologist. Maybe the next day 15 MR. : Are you talking about the 15 someone would go screen him, the on-call 16 weekend he came in, or -- 16 psychologist. But, you know, or Monday if 17 MR. : Yeah. 17 someone came in. But typically the on-call 18 MR. (Indiscernible *00:03:19). 18 psychologist is there through the weekend and 19 MR. : First arrival. 19 will screen them. 20 MR. : That weekend, I don't know. 20 MR. : Who is notified of the 21 But I know afterwards, he was medically 21 results of those screenings? 22 assessed and they were, you know, our health 22 MR. of? n 23 service department assessed him and he, I think 23 MR. : Of the medical screen and 24 he might have told him that he had certain 24 psychological screenings, who gets notified of 25 medications. 25 that? 23 24 1 MR. As far as what? If they 1 MR. : Okay. And when he first 2 find something in there? 2 arrived, were you made aware of any medical or 3 MR. : Yes. 3 mental issues regarding him? 4 MR. Like what would be an 4 MR. : Mental health, I don't 5 example? I mean 5 recall any mental health. But I was told that 6 MR. : Any medical concerns that 6 he was on certain medications or whatever. But 7 people need to be aware of. Any psychological 7 it was general. It wasn't -- 8 issues. How does that information get 8 MR. : Okay. 9 disseminated? 9 MR. : -- anything major. 10 MR. : Because when we talk about 10 MR. : Okay. And just, and 11 medical issues, some of that falls under 11 that's a general policy for all inmates that 12 privacy issues. 12 arrive? 13 MR. : Um-hum. 13 MR. • The screening, yeah. 14 MR. So, you know, it's not going 14 MR. : lust the medical 15 to be divul to -- 15 screening. The all get that? 16 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. • Right. 17 MR. -- just like that. 17 MR. : Is there any, as a result 18 MR. : Sure. 18 of those screenings, is there any, does it have 19 MR. . But as far as psychological, 19 any bearing on where they're placed, whether 20 if it was something that psychologists did an 20 it's special housing or general population? 21 interview and said, hey, there's a mental 21 MR. : I mean typically if you do, 22 health issue or something, then she would, you 22 like I said, if you do an intake screening and 23 know, she would let her Associate Warden know. 23 the individual comes in and they have no 24 She would let me know that, hey, there's some 24 issues, no separation issues, and, you know, 25 issues. 25 then they can populate like anyone else. But EFTA00091774  25 26 1 if there are issues with them going out in 1 MR. : Okay. 2 general population; i.e., safety issues, then 2 MR. W I And it's a cell, and if you 3 you would be laced in the Special Housing. 3 go on suicide watch, you're placed in a smock. 4 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : Until we could further S MR. : That covers you and then 6 evaluate if ou could go to general population. you're watched for 24 hours. 7 MR. : If someone during the 7 MR. : Now the smock, is that 8 mental health screening, the mental health, the 8 made of paper, or -- 9 psychologist deemed them to be suicidal -- 9 MR. It's cloth. 10 MR. Okay. 10 MR. : Cloth? In 11 MR. : -- what are the suicidal 11 MR. : It's like, you ever see 12 watch policies as it relates to that? 12 those movies where they have those heavy bomb 13 MR. : So, if the psychologist was 13 vests? 14 to say, hey, they're suicidal, then they would 14 MR. Uh 15 be placed on suicide watch. 15 MR. • It's something, I mean, I 16 MR. : Okay. 16 don't want to you know, say, but it's something 17 MR. MI Now if the psychologist is 17 like that. 18 not there and someone exhibits suicidal 18 MR. : Okay. 19 ideations or statements or thoughts, then 19 MR. • And it just hangs. 20 they're placed on suicide watch. 20 MR. : Sure. 21 MR. : Can you explain to me what 21 MR. Hangs on them just like 22 suicide watch is, where it is in the MCC -- 22 that. So -- 23 MR. : It's on the second floor of 23 MR. : And you said they're 24 the institution, on the same floor of the 24 monitored for 24 hours. How are they, is it -- 25 hospital. 25 MR. • There's a companion sitting 27 28 1 there. An inmate. 1 to suicide. So, they'd say, okay you know 2 MR. : In the cell? 2 what, theiiiiiiiily to go back up. 3 MR. • No. Outside the cell. 3 MR. : Okay. What role, how does 4 MR. : Okay. 4 the program, is the psychologist the program S MR. It's a cell where you sit 5 coordinator? and observe. 6 MR. • The chief psychologist runs 7 MR. : Okay. Is the companion 7 the department. 8 another inmate or a staff? 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. : No, it's a trained inmate 9 MR. • And then she has various 10 companion. Now, we have four cells. If those 10 psychologists that work under her. 11 cells get full, then we have to move them up to 11 MR. : Okay. 12 the Special Housing Unit and then put a staff 12 MR. : And then evaluate because we 13 watch on them. 13 have a different mission as far as we have a 14 MR. : Okay. What policies are 14 forensic mission. So, we get a lot of forensic 15 in place for suicide watch as it relates to 15 studies in the institution. 16 staff response, notification, how people get 16 MR. : Okay. 17 notified, if they're moving from suicide watch 17 MR. : And then we have a regular 18 to off suicide watch. How does that work? 18 psychologist also that handles the inmate 19 MR. : That works through 19 population but they work together and they 20 psycholog 20 handle evSiin i . 21 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. : Okay. Who's ultimately 22 MR. : Psychology evaluates and 22 responsible for placing somebody on suicide 23 they'll say, okay, we've evaluated him and, you 23 watch or off suicide watch? 24 know, wherever we're going, typically you 24 MR. : Well placing it, a staff 25 always usually go from the Special Housing Unit 25 member comes and says hey, this guy is EFTA00091775  29 30 1 suicidal. You can place him on suicide watch. 1 MR. Yeah. They send out a form 2 MR. : Okay. Anybody in the 2 every day stating like who's on suicide watch, 3 institution can do that? 3 who's on s the observation. So -- 4 MR. : Yeah. If I come upon an 4 MR. : Okay. S inmate that's saying, "Hey, I'm going to kill S MR. : -- we're aware of who it is 6 myself." Okay, we get him on suicide watch. 6 and then they'll send out a form if there's no 7 Psychology comes and, you know, evaluates them 7 one on there. 8 and then comes u' with a plan. 8 MR. : You said earlier that 9 MR. : Within the psychology 9 while on suicide watch, there was an observer. 10 department -- 10 MR. Right. 11 MR. Um-hum. 11 MR. : How does an inmate become 12 MR. • : -- or the medical 12 an observer? 13 department there in mental health, who there 13 MR. It's an inmate companion. 14 ultimateliiiiiiii that decision? 14 MR. : A companion, I'm sorry. 15 MR. : I believe, and don't quote 15 MR. So, it's a trained program. 16 me on this. I believe the psychologists. 16 So, they have to go through training. They 17 MR. : Okay. 17 have to take courses, and then they become 18 MR. : You know, they're trained 18 eligible to become a companion. 19 professionals. So, they can make a decision 19 MR. : Who authorizes the use of 20 and they consult with the Chief in, you know, 20 an inmate comianion? 21 determining okay what's the plan of action to 21 MR. • The psychology department 22 move forward. 22 runs that. So -- 23 MR. : And are you, when 23 MR. : Do you have any input as 24 someone's placed in suicide watch, are you 24 the Warden in selecting or training or 25 notified of that? 25 implementing the inmate companion program? 31 32 1 MR. • No. 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : Does every institution 2 MR. Clinical Director is a 3 have an inmate companion program? 3 separate'Ili 4 MR. Yes. 4 MR. : Okay. I apologize for 5 MS. . Who's the Chief : S that. 6 Psychologist? 6 MR. • That's fine. 7 MR. . (phonetic 7 MR. : Thank you for clarifying. 8 sp.). 8 MR. • Okay. 9 MR. : And Ms. is the one 9 MR. : Who in the medical staff, 10 who is ultimately responsible for determining 10 just for my clarification, who in the medical 11 if someone is on suicide watch and removing 11 staff is ultimately responsible for removing 12 them; correct? 12 somebody from suicide watch? 13 MR. Well in conjunction with our 13 MR. : The psychology department 14 staff. 14 determines to remove somebody from -- 15 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : So, who in the psychology 16 MR. . Because you could be, a 16 department? 17 psychologist is assigned to the individual when 17 MR. : Again, it depends on who's 18 they're working a plan with them. And if they 18 evaluatin• the inmate. 19 come to the determination that hey, you know 19 MR. : Okay. So -- 20 what, they no longer need to be on suicide 20 MR. : And so we have one, two, 21 watch. 21 three, realiiiiiihave, (Indiscernible 22 MR. : Okay. But as the clinical 22 *00:12:26) uh, four. We have four 23 director, she's ultimately responsible. 23 psychologists on staff. 24 MR. : She's not the clinical. 24 MR. : You have four 2S She's the Chief Psychologist. 2S psychologists on staff. And any one of those EFTA00091776  33 34 1 four can remove somebody? 1 with your decision, then we debate it and then 2 MR. • Can remove somebody. 2 we ultimatel come to a decision. 3 MR. : Do those four have, who's 3 MR. : Okay. 4 those four su ervisors? 4 MR. As to yay or nay. 5 MR. • Dr. S MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : Dr. 6 MR. : So, it's kind of the same 7 MR. Yeah. 7 thing. 8 MR. : What authority does she 8 MR. : While on suicide watch, 9 have to overrule them? 9 you said there's a 24-hour companion. What 10 MR. : And I'm not a psychologist - 10 does staff do for the inmates while they're on 11 11 suicide watch? 12 MR. : Sure. 12 MR. : Well we have a camera, well 13 MR. Mi -- to know what procedures 13 they're trained to, there's a phone there. So, 14 they use -- 14 let's say something happened where an inmate's 15 MR. : Um-hum. 15 trying to do harm to himself. They pick up the 16 MR. El -- or what conversation they 16 phone and they call for assistance, because it 17 have to determine if she's going to overrule 17 goes directly to control center, and we respond 18 them. I mean, she's the supervisor, and it's 18 accordingly to it. 19 just like with any, you know, profession you 19 But we also in our control center, while 20 have. 20 the individual is on suicide watch, there's a 21 MR. : Right. 21 camera there. 22 MR. El If I come up with some 22 MR. : Okay. 23 reasoning -- 23 MR. : To view -- 24 MR. : Um-hum. 24 MR. : What specific training 25 MR. .! In saying hey, I don't agree 25 does staff get as it relates to the suicide 35 36 1 watch? 1 MR. : That's our policy dictates 2 MR. : Once a year during our 2 that they et training. 3 annual training, we have suicide prevention 3 MR. : Okay. That's BOP policy; 4 training. 4 correct? S MR. : Okay. 5 MR. Yes. 6 MR. During our annual training. 6 MR. : Okay. When someone, you 7 MR. : And that's required for 7 said that any staff member at the BOP can place 8 all -- 8 somebody on suicide watch? 9 MR. All employees. 9 MR. Yes. Mi Mi 10 MR. : What does that training 10 MR. : Is there any paperwork or 11 cover? 11 documentation for that that they have to fill 12 MR. : Suicide signs, prevention, 12 out? 13 coping, just anything pertaining to suicide, 13 MR. : No. Basically they'll tell 14 sir. Signs to look for. 14 that, you know, that hey we need to place him 15 MR. : Um-hum. 15 on watch, and we'll place him on watch, and 16 MR. : Um -- 16 then we'll contact psychology. 17 MR. : Is there any specific 17 MR. : Okay. 18 staff that are more trained, or specifically 18 MR. To come in and talk to them. 19 trained for this area of the prison? 19 MR. : Okay. There's no referral 20 MR. : Our Special Housing Unit 20 that saysi_rI_placed inmate" -- 21 staff get quarterly suicide prevention 21 MR. IIIIIII: No. Psychology will handle 22 training. 22 it -- 23 MR. : Okay. Is that part of 23 MR. Okay. 24 something the MCC does independent, or is that 24 MR. : -- here and there, in their 25 policy dictated? How does that -- 25 notes and their documentation that they were EFTA00091777  37 38 1 placed on it, when they were placed on it. 1 MR. : Do you get notified, you 2 MR. : So, the psychology 2 just said you get notified in the email that 3 department is responsible for documenting when 3 somebody's removed or -- 4 people come in in treatment. 4 MR. : It's an email that the 5 MR. : We, you know, we have what psychology department puts out stating who's on 6 we call a dail log in the -- 6 suicide watch who's been removed. 7 MR. : Um-hum. MR. IIIIIIIII: Is that a daily list? 8 MR. : -- institution. So, the log 8 Like they send it once a day, or when someone 9 would annotate somebody was placed on suicide 9 new comes on and off? How does that -- 10 watch also. 10 MR. It's a daily one. And -- 11 MR. : Okay. Is there any 11 MR. : Okay. 12 specific forms or reports that get filled out 12 MR. And it states who's on 13 when some, removed from suicide watch? 13 watch, who's, you know, who's got released, and 14 MR. : I believe psychology would 14 15 do those forms and saying in their reports why 15 MR. : Who does that get 16 they were removed and if they're ready to be 16 disseminated to? 17 released. 17 MR. It's a group. It's a group 18 MR. : Do you get those forms? 18 email that gets sent to all department heads, 19 MR. .! I don't get the special 19 Captain, Lieutenants, everybody in the need to 20 medical ones. I just, with the notification 20 know. 21 that, you know, with the one that email that 21 MR. : This is the supervisors 22 goes out -- 22 within the institution? The Lieutenants, the 23 MR. : Um-hum. 23 Captain. 24 MR. El -- that the individual was 24 MR. Mi (Indiscernible *00:17:07). 25 released from suicide watch. 25 MR. : Okay. 39 40 1 MR. : And, don't quote me on that, 1 removed from suicide watch. So, it depends on 2 but I need to look at the chain -- 2 where they're going. So, if they're going back 3 MR. : Okay. 3 to Special Housing Unit, so it's notification 4 MR. -- to see who's actually on 4 that hey, this person's been taken off. We 5 it. But -- have noboiiiiiiiiich right now. 6 MR. : But it's not an 6 MR. : Okay. Are they supposed institution-wide email? 7 to disseminate that? What are they supposed to 8 MR. : It is kind of sent out 8 do with that information? Are they supposed to 9 institution wide because you have the different 9 tell anybiiiiiiire they -- 10 departments on it. So, you can say it's 10 MR. : Well, I mean when that 11 institution wide. 11 individual is released -- 12 MR. : Not every person in the 12 MR. : Um-hum. 13 institution ets that email, though? 13 MR. Wherever they're going for, 14 MR. No. I don't -- 14 they're going to be notified by psychology that 15 MR. : Okay. Just not an MCC all 15 they're comin directly -- 16 type of -- 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MR. No, it's not an all staff. 17 MR. -- to you. 18 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. Yeah. 19 MR. So, it was just an 20 MR. : What is the expectation of 20 accountabilit 21 the department heads and the supervisors and 21 MR. : Okay. 22 the Lieutenants and Captains once they get this 22 MR. -- thing just to know that 23 email? What are they supposed to do with that? 23 hey, thisiiiiiiiiis getting off of watch. 24 MR. : I mean, it's just a 24 MR. : So, psychology will notify 25 notification that the individual's being 25 whatever unit they're going back to? EFTA00091778  41 42 1 MR. Well, it depends where 1 morning, they could say, you know, this is 2 you're going back to. Typically I always go to 2 who's on watch, and then you get another one 3 Special Housin Unit down. 3 stating who's been released off of watch. 4 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : Okay. Is there any policy 5 MR. : And typically when you do, or standard operation procedure on how 6 let's say an individual has tried to commit 6 (Indiscernible *00:19:21) that email gets sent 7 suicide. It's an infraction. So, they usually out? 8 have an incident report that goes beyond that. 8 MR. : How what? 9 So, you have to come up to the Special Housing 9 MR. : How frequent that email -- 10 Unit anyway before so that that infraction can 10 MR. No. 11 be resolved. 11 MR. : Okay. But it should be at 12 MR. : Okay. 12 least once a 13 MR. El So, there are a number of 13 MR. IIIIIII: That's when they send it 14 aspects of, you know, how. Did you go straight 14 out. I don't -- 15 back or go back there. 15 MR. : Okay. When somebody is 16 MR. : And this email that 16 removed from S ecial Housing -- 17 psychology sends out with the list of who's in 17 MR. Um-hum. 18 and who's out of suicide watch -- 18 MR. -- and placed in suicide 19 MR. Who's on watch, yeah? 19 watch on the second floor -- n 20 MR. : -- is that once a day or 20 MR. Um-hum. In 21 twice a day? Is that morning and evening 21 MR.