EFTA00066216.pdf

k7e2MaxC kjc UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, New York, N.Y. 4 v. 20 Cr. 330 (AJN) 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL, 6 Defendant. 7 x Teleconference 8 Arraignment Bail Hearing 9 July 14, 2020 10 3:05 p.m. 11 Before: 12 HON. ALISON J. NATHAN, 13 District Judge 14 15 APPEARANCES 16 AUDREY STRAUSS United States Attorney for the 17 Southern District of New York BY: 18 19 Assistant United States Attorneys 20 COHEN & GRESSER, LLP 21 Attorneys for Defendant BY: MARK S. COHEN 22 CHRISTIAN R. EVERDELL 23 HADDON MORGAN & FOREMAN, P.C. 24 Attorneys for Defendant BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA 25 LAURA A. MENNINGER SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066216  k7e2MaxC kjc THE COURT: Good afternoon, everyone. This is Judge Nathan presiding. This is United States v. Ghislaine Maxwell, 20 Cr. 4 330. 5 I will take appearances from counsel, beginning with 6 counsel for the defendant. 7 : Good afternoon, your Honor. Mark Cohen, 8 Cohen & Gresser, for Ms. Maxwell. Also appearing with me today 9 is my partner Chris Everdell of Cohen & Gresser and Jeff 10 Pagliuca and Laura Menninger of the Haddon Morgan firm. Good 11 afternoon, your Honor. 12 THE COURT: Good afternoon, Mr. Cohen. 13 And for the government. 14 : Good afternoon, your Honor. for 15 the government. I'm joined by my colleagues and 16 And also, with the court's permission, we 17 learned that the executive staff for the U.S. Attorney's office 18 were unfortunately not able to Connecticut at the overflow 19 dial-in so, with the court's permission, we would like to dial 20 them in from a phone here if that's acceptable to the court. 21 THE COURT: The last word, the overflow dial-in was 22 not full. Just a moment and we will make sure that they can 23 connect in. 24 And let me say good afternoon, Ms. Maxwell, as well. 25 THE DEFENDANT: Good afternoon, Judge. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066217  k7e2MaxC kjc THE COURT: Ms. Maxwell, are you able to hear me and see me okay? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, thank you. 4 THE COURT: And are you able to hear Mr. Cohen and 5 counsel for the United States as well? 6 THE DEFENDANT: Yes. Thank you. 7 THE COURT: All right. If at any point you have 8 difficulty with any of the technology, you can let someone 9 there know right away, let me know, and we will pause the 10 proceedings before going any further. Okay? 11 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you, Judge. 12 THE COURT: All right. 13 Just a minute while we check on the call-in line. 14 : Thank you, your Honor. 15 (Pause) 16 : Your Honor, apologies. We have also heard 17 from colleagues in the office that the line is full. We have, 18 however, been able to dial in the executive staff to a phone 19 number here and my understanding is that they can hear and 20 participate that way, if that's acceptable to the court. But 21 of course we defer to the court's preference. 22 THE COURT: We are concerned about feedback from being 23 on a speakerphone in that room. The phone number for 24 nonspeaking co-counsel that was provided, that line is not 25 full, and I would assume the executive leadership of the office SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066218  4 k7e2MaxC kjc falls within that category, so they may call in to that number. Yes, your Honor. Thank you. We will do that. 4 THE COURT: All right. 5 : Thank you, your Honor. 6 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Then we will go 7 ahead and proceed. 8 I have called the case. I have taken appearances. 9 Counsel, let me please have oral confirmation that the court 10 reporter is on the line. 11 THE COURT REPORTER: Good afternoon, your Honor. 12 Kristen Carannante. 13 THE COURT: Good afternoon, and thank you so much. 14 We also have on the audio line Pretrial Services 15 Officer Leah Harmon and -- 16 THE PRETRIAL SERVICES OFFICER: Hello, your Honor. 17 Good afternoon. 18 THE COURT: Good afternoon. Thank you. 19 We are here today for the arraignment, the initial 20 scheduling conference, and bail hearing in this matter. 21 As everyone knows, we are in the middle of the 22 COVID-19 pandemic. I am conducting this proceeding remotely, 23 pursuant to the authority provided by Section 15002 of the 24 CARES Act and the standing orders issued by our Chief Judge 25 pursuant to that act. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066219  k7e2MaxC kjc I am proceeding by videoconference, which I am accessing remotely. Defense counsel and counsel for the government are appearing remotely via videoconference and the 4 defendant, Ms. Maxwell, is accessing this videoconference from 5 the MDC in Brooklyn. 6 Ms. Maxwell, I did confirm that you could hear me and 7 see me; and, again, if at any point you have any difficulty 8 with the technology, please let me know right away. Okay? 9 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you, your Honor. I will do 10 that. 11 THE COURT: Thank you. And if at any point you would 12 like to speak privately with Mr. Cohen, let me know that right 13 away, and we will move you and your counsel into a private 14 breakout room where nobody else will be able to see or hear 15 your conversation, okay? 16 THE DEFENDANT: Again, thank you, your Honor. I 17 appreciate that. Thank you. 18 THE COURT: Thank you. 19 Mr. Cohen, likewise, should you request to speak with 20 Ms. Maxwell privately, don't hesitate to say that. 21 MR. COHEN: Thank you, your Honor. 22 THE COURT: We will turn now to the waiver of physical 23 presence. I did receive a signed waiver of physical presence 24 form dated July 10, 2020. 25 Mr. Cohen, could you please is describe the process by SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066220  k7e2MaxC kjc which you discussed with Ms. Maxwell her right to be present and the indication of her knowing and voluntary waiver of that right provided on this form. 4 MR. COHEN: Yes, your Honor. We, given the press of 5 time, we were not able to physically get the form to our 6 client, but my partner Chris Everdell and I went through it 7 with her, read it to her, and she gave us authorization to sign 8 on her behalf and that's reflected on the form in the boxes 9 where indicated, your Honor. 10 THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Maxwell, is that an accurate 11 account of what occurred? 12 THE DEFENDANT: That is completely accurate, your 13 Honor. Yes. 14 THE COURT: And you have had the form read to you or 15 you have it physically now at this point? 16 THE DEFENDANT: That is correct, your Honor. 17 THE COURT: Okay. And you have had time to discuss it 18 with your attorney? 19 THE DEFENDANT: I have, your Honor. Thank you. 20 THE COURT: Okay. And do you continue to wish to 21 waive your right to be physically present and instead to 22 proceed today by this videoconference proceeding? 23 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: All right. I do find a knowing and 25 voluntary waiver of the right to be physically present for this SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066221  k7e2MaxC kjc arraignment, scheduling conference, and bail hearing. Counsel, as you know, to proceed remotely today, in addition to the finding I have just made, I must also find that 4 today's proceeding cannot be further delayed without serious 5 harms to the interests of justice. 6 does the government wish to be heard on that? 7 8 : Yes, your Honor. 9 The government submits that proceeding remotely in 10 this fashion would protect the interests of the parties and the 11 safety in view of the pandemic. We further submit that this 12 proceeding can be conducted remotely with full participation of 13 the parties in view of the preparation and steps everyone has 14 taken to ensure proper participation. 15 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 16 Mr. Cohen? 17 MR. COHEN: Your Honor, we have agreed to proceed 18 remotely as your Honor just laid out. 19 THE COURT: Okay. I do find that today's proceeding 20 cannot be further delayed without serious harms to the 21 interests of justice for, among other reasons, that the 22 defendant, who is currently detained, seeks release on bail. 23 The final preliminary matter I will address is public 24 access to the proceeding, which has garnered significant public 25 interest. As I have indicated in prior orders, the court has SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066222  k7e2MaxC kjc arranged for a live video feed of this proceeding to be set up in the jury assembly room at the courthouse. This is the largest room available and, with appropriate social distancing, 4 it can safely accommodate 60 people. The court has further 5 provided a live video feed to the press room at the courthouse 6 where additional members of the credentialed in-house press 7 corps can watch and hear the proceeding. 8 Additionally, the court has provided a live audio feed 9 for members of the public. My prior order indicated that the 10 line can accommodate 500 callers, but with thanks of the court 11 staff, that capacity has been increased to 1,000 callers. 12 Lastly, the court has provided through counsel a 13 separate call-in line to ensure audio access to nonspeaking 14 co-counsel, any alleged victims identified by the government, 15 including those who wish to be heard on the question of 16 pretrial detention, and any family members of the defendant. 17 That line is operational now as well. 18 Counsel, beginning with Mr. Cohen, any objection to 19 these arrangements regarding public access? 20 MR. COHEN: No, your Honor. 21 THE COURT: 22 : No, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: Then I will make the following findings: 24 First, COVID-19 constitutes a substantial, if not 25 overriding, reason that supports the court's approach to access SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066223  k7e2MaxC kjc in this case. As the chief judge of the district has recognized in order number 20MC176, COVID-19 remains a national emergency that restricts normal operations of the courts. 4 Conducting this proceeding in person is not safely feasible. 5 Second, the measures taken by the court are no broader 6 than necessary to address the challenges posed by the pandemic. 7 Although the number of seats in the jury assembly room is 8 limited to 60, it is necessary to do so for public and 9 courthouse staff safety and is closely equivalent to the number 10 of people who would be able to watch an in-court proceeding in 11 a regular-sized courtroom. The number of people who will be 12 able to hear the live audio of this proceeding far exceeds 13 access under normal in-person circumstances. 14 Lastly, given the safety and technology limitations, 15 there are no reasonable alternatives to the measures the court 16 has taken. 17 Accordingly, the access provided is fully in accord 18 with the First and Sixth Amendment public trial rights. 19 With those preliminary matters out of the way, 20 counsel, I propose we turn to the arraignment. 21 am I correct that this is an arraignment on 22 the S1 superseding indictment? 23 : That's correct, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Can you explain what the difference is 25 between the S1 and the original indictment? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066224  IC k7e2MaxC kjc : Yes, your Honor. The difference is a small ministerial correction, a reference to a civil docket number contained in the perjury 4 counts, which are Counts Five and Six of the superseding 5 indictment. Aside from the alteration of those docket numbers, 6 the reference to them, there are no other changes to the 7 indictment. 8 THE COURT: All right. Again, I will conduct the 9 arraignment on the S1 indictment. 10 Ms. Maxwell, have you seen a copy of the S1 indictment 11 in this matter? 12 THE DEFENDANT: I saw the original indictment, your 13 Honor. The original 14 THE COURT: Okay. 15 All right. Mr. Cohen, did you have an opportunity to 16 discuss with Ms. Maxwell the ministerial change that was 17 completed by way of the superseding indictment? 18 MR. COHEN: Yes, yes, Judge. We have, your Honor. 19 THE COURT: Any objection to proceeding on the 20 arraignment of the S1 indictment, Mr. Cohen? 21 MR. COHEN: No, your Honor. 22 THE COURT: All right. 23 Ms. Maxwell, have you had an opportunity to discuss 24 the indictment in this case with your attorney? 25 THE DEFENDANT: I have, your Honor. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066225  k7e2MaxC kjc THE COURT: All right. (Indiscernible crosstalk) THE COURT: Go ahead. 4 THE DEFENDANT: No. I said I have been able to 5 discuss it, your Honor, with my attorney. 6 THE COURT: Thank you. 7 You are entitled to have the indictment read to you 8 here in this open court proceeding or you can waive the public 9 reading. Do you waive the public reading? 10 THE DEFENDANT: I do, your Honor. I do waive 11 THE COURT: How do you wish to -- 12 THE DEFENDANT: -- your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Thank you. And how do you wish to plead 14 to the charge? 15 THE DEFENDANT: Not guilty, your Honor. 16 THE COURT: All right. I will enter a plea of not 17 guilty to the indictment in this matter. 18 Counsel, we will turn now to the scheduling 19 conference. 20 I would like to begin with a status update from the 21 government. , you should include in your update a 22 description of the status of discovery. Please describe the 23 categories of evidence that will be produced in discovery. 1 24 will also ask you to indicate how you will ensure that the 25 government will fully and timely meet all of its constitutional SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066226  12 k7e2MaxC kjc and federal law disclosure obligations. Go ahead, • : Thank you, your Honor. 4 With respect to the items that the government 5 anticipates will be included in discovery in this case, we 6 expect that those materials will include, among other items, 7 search warrant returns, copies of search warrants, subpoena 8 returns, including business records, photographs, 9 electronically stored information from searches conducted on 10 electronic devices. In addition, the materials with respect to 11 the core of the case also include prior investigative files 12 from another investigation in the Southern District of Florida 13 among other items. 14 With respect to the status of discovery, the 15 government has begun preparing an initial production and are 16 prepared to produce a first batch of discovery as soon as a 17 protective order is entered by the court. 18 With respect to the status of the proposed protective 19 order, the government sent defense counsel a proposed 20 protective order last week. We have touched base about the 21 status of that with defense counsel, and they conveyed that 22 they would like to continue reviewing and discussing it with 23 the government, which we plan to do shortly after this 24 conference, with an eye towards submitting a proposed 25 protective order to the court as soon as possible. Following SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066227  13 k7e2MaxC kjc the entry of that protective order, as I noted, your Honor, the government is prepared to make a substantial production of discovery. 4 Your Honor, in advance of the conference, the 5 government and defense counsel proposed a joint schedule for 6 discovery, motion practice, and a proposed trial date, in 7 particular, the date selected in that schedule with an eye 8 towards assuring that there was sufficient time for the 9 government to do a careful and exhaustive and thorough review 10 of all of the materials that I just referenced to make sure 11 that the government is complying with its discovery obligations 12 in this case, which we take very seriously. We expect that the 13 bulk of the relevant materials will be produced in short order, 14 primarily by the end of this summer, with additional materials 15 to follow primarily in a category I mentioned before, your 16 Honor, of electronically stored information, which is subject 17 to an ongoing privilege review which we discussed and 18 communicated with defense counsel about. We have proposed a 19 scheduling order again to be very thorough in our review of 20 discovery and in files in various places where they may be 21 located and we are taking an expansive and thoughtful approach 22 to our obligations in this case, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: Let me just follow up specifically, since 24 you have referenced prior investigative files, to the extent we 25 have seen in other matters issues with complete disclosure of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066228  11 k7e2MaxC kjc materials, it has been in some instances due to precisely that factor. So has there been a plan developed to ensure that down the road we are not hearing that there were delays or problems 4 with discovery as a result of the fact that part of the 5 disclosure obligation here includes materials from other 6 investigative files? 7 : Yes, your Honor. 8 The files in particular that I am referring to are the 9 files in the possession of the F.B.I. in Florida in connection 10 with the previous investigation of Jeffrey Epstein. The 11 physical files themselves were shipped to New York and are at 12 the New York F.B.I. office. They have been imaged and scanned 13 and photographed to make sure that a comprehensive review can 14 be conducted, and they are physically in New York so that we 15 can have access to those files. And again, as we have heard in 16 ongoing information, we are particularly thoughtful about those 17 concerns given the history of this case and the volume of 18 materials and the potential sensitivities, your Honor. 19 THE COURT: Beyond the paper files which you have just 20 indicated, the physical files, have you charted a path for 21 determining whether there is any other additional information 22 that must be disclosed? 23 : Your Honor, just to clarify, is your 24 question with respect to the previous investigation or -- I 25 apologize, your Honor. I wasn't sure what you meant. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066229  15 k7e2MaxC kjc THE COURT: Among other things, but, yes, I'm drilling down specifically on that since that has been, in somewhat comparable circumstances in other matters, the source of issues 4 related to timely disclosures. 5 : Yes, your Honor. Our team met personally 6 with the F.B.I. in Florida to make sure that we had the 7 materials, and it was represented to us that the materials that 8 the F.B.I. provided in Florida were the comprehensive set of 9 materials. We will certainly have ongoing conversations to 10 make sure that that is the case and if, in our review of files, 11 we discover other materials, we will handle that with great 12 care, and we are particularly sensitive to that concern. 13 THE COURT: And I expect here, and in all matters, not 14 just accepting of initial representations made regarding full 15 disclosure, but thoughtful and critical pushing and pressing of 16 questions and issues with respect to actively retrieving any 17 appropriate files. Are we on the same page, 18 : Yes, your Honor. Very much so. 19 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 20 With that, why don't you go ahead and lay out the 21 proposed schedule that you have discussed with Mr. Cohen, and 22 then I will hear from Mr. Cohen if he has any concerns with 23 that proposal. 24 : Yes, your Honor. 25 We would propose the completion of discovery, to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066230  16 k7e2MaxC kjc include electronic materials, to be due by Monday, November 9 of this year, and following that we would propose the following motion schedule: that defense motions be due by Monday, 4 December 21 of this year; that the government's response be due 5 on Friday, January 22, 2021; and that replies be due on Friday, 6 February 5, 2021. 7 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Cohen, based on the 8 government's description of both the quantity and quality of 9 discovery, is that schedule that's been laid out sufficient 10 from your perspective to do everything that you need to do? 11 MR. COHEN: Your Honor, just two points in that 12 regard. I think counsel for the government did not mention in 13 the e-mail we had sent to your Honor's law clerk that August 21 14 would be the deadline for production of search warrant 15 applications and the subpoena returns. I think she just failed 16 to mention it for the record. That would also be part of the 17 schedule. 18 THE COURT: Thank you. 19 , do you agree? 20 : That's correct, your Honor. I apologize. 21 We did include that in the e-mail to your Honor's chambers, and 22 that is correct. 23 And thank you, counsel, for clarifying that. 24 MR. COHEN: Two additional points, your Honor. The 25 trial schedule that we are agreeing to, of course subject to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066231  k7e2MaxC kjc the court's approval, assumes there will be no substantive superseding indictment. If there is one, which the government has advised us they don't believe is imminent or I assume not 4 at all, we might have to come back to the court to address not 5 just trial schedule but other schedule as well. 6 And I am assuming -- we take your Honor's points about 7 the issues on discovery, and we agree with them, particularly 8 as to electronic discovery; and I am assuming that, as this 9 unfolds, if we spot an issue we think needs further attention, 10 we will be able to bring it to the court's attention. 11 Those are my points. 12 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Cohen. 13 Let me go ahead and ask, Mr. Cohen has made a 14 representation but I will ask if you do anticipate at this time 15 filing any further superseding indictments adding either 16 defendants or additional charges? 17 : Your Honor, our investigation remains 18 ongoing, but at this point we do not currently anticipate 19 seeking a superseding indictment. 20 THE COURT: All right. So with that -- and also let 21 me ask, , just because it is next on my list, what 22 processes the government has put in place to notify alleged 23 victims of events and court dates pursuant to the Crime Victims 24 Rights Act. 25 : Yes, your Honor. I am happy to give the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066232  18 k7e2MaxC kjc courts details about the process we used for notification for this conference and also what we anticipate to use going forward. 4 So to begin with, the government notified relevant 5 victims or their counsel immediately following the arrest of 6 the defendant on July 2 about the fact of the arrest and the 7 initial presentment scheduled for later that day. 8 In advance of the initial presentment, those victims 9 were provided the opportunity to participate through the 10 court's protocol for appearances in New Hampshire. 11 On July 7, the court set a date for arraignment and 12 bail hearing on July 14, today, and by the following day from 13 the court's order, the government had notified relevant victims 14 or their counsel of that scheduling order and advised victims 15 and counsel of their right to be heard in connection with the 16 bail hearing. 17 On that same day, the government posted to its victim 18 services website, including a link to the indictment, as well 19 as scheduling information relating to the hearing. 20 On July 9, the government updated the website to 21 include the dial-in information that the court provided. 22 In addition, on July 8, the government sent letter 23 notifications to individuals who have identified themselves as 24 victims of Ghislaine Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein that were not 25 specifically referenced in the indictment. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066233  19 k7e2MaxC kjc Our process going forward, as we noted in that letter to victims, is that we will use an opt-in process so we will not notify individuals who do not wish to receive additional 4 notifications but will continue to provide ongoing information 5 about upcoming conferences and relevant details on the 6 government's victim services website. 7 With respect to this specific hearing, the government 8 has been advised by counsel to three victims of their interest 9 in being heard in connection with today's bail proceeding. One 10 victim's views are expressed in the government's reply 11 memorandum; one victim has submitted a statement to the 12 government and asked that the government read it during today's 13 proceedings; and one victim has asked to be heard directly, and 14 the government anticipates that she will make a statement at 15 any time during this proceeding as necessitated by the court. 16 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 17 Then, with that, returning to the schedule that you 18 have laid out, and I thank counsel for conferring in advance, 19 as to a proposed schedule, Mr. Cohen, let me just finalize if 20 you agree to the proposed schedule that has been laid out by 21 and supplemented by you? 22 MR. COHEN: Yes, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 24 And, you continue to support the proposed 25 schedule? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066234  20 k7e2MaxC kjc : Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Then I will set the schedule as jointly proposed by counsel. To reiterate, I am setting 4 let me ask, , if we are going to proceed to trial, how 5 long of a trial does the government anticipate? 6 : Your Honor, the government anticipates that 7 its case in chief would take no more than two weeks. But in 8 terms of the length of time to block out a trial date, in an 9 abundance of caution, in view of the need for jury selection 10 and the defense case, we would propose blocking three weeks for 11 trial. 12 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 13 With that, I will adopt the schedule. I hereby set 14 trial to commence on July 12, 2021, with the following pretrial 15 schedule: 16 Initial nonelectronic disclosure generally, to include 17 search warrant applications and subpoena returns, to be due by 18 Friday, August 21, 20. 19 Completion of discovery, to include electronic 20 materials, to be due by Monday November 9, 2020. 21 Any initial pretrial defense motions, based on the 22 indictment or disclosure material and the like to be due by 23 Monday, December 21, 2020. 24 If any motions are filed, the government's response 25 due by Friday, January 22, 2021. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066235  k7e2MaxC kjc Any replies due by Friday, February 5, 2021. If any motions seek an evidentiary hearing, I will reach out, chambers will reach out to schedule an evidentiary 4 hearing. 5 And, as indicated, trial to commence on July 12, 2021. 6 In advance of trial, following motion practice, the 7 court will put out a schedule regarding pretrial submissions, 8 including in limine motions and the like. 9 With that, counsel, other matters to discuss regarding 10 scheduling? 11 Mr. Cohen? 12 MR. COHEN: Not at this time, your Honor, not from the 13 defense at this time. 14 THE COURT: Thank you. 15 16 : Nothing further from the government 17 regarding scheduling, your Honor Thank you. 18 THE COURT: Okay. And, , does the government 19 seek to exclude time under the Speedy Trial Act? 20 : Yes, your Honor. In view of the schedule 21 and the interests of producing discovery and permitting time 22 for the defense to review discovery, contemplate any motions 23 and pursue those motions, the government would seek to exclude 24 time from today's date until our trial date as court set forth 25 today. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066236  22 k7e2MaxC kjc THE COURT: Mr. Cohen, any objection? MR. COHEN: No, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. I will exclude time from today's 4 date until July 12, 2021, which I have said is a firm trial 5 date. I do find that the ends of justice served by excluding 6 this time outweigh the interests of the public and the 7 defendant in a speedy trial. The time is necessary for the 8 production of discovery and view of that by defense, time for 9 the defense to consider and prepare any available motions and, 10 in the absence of resolution of the case, time for the parties 11 to prepare for trial. 12 To and Mr. Cohen, although I have not set an 13 interim status conference in the case, we do have our motion 14 schedule, but for both sides, if at any point you wish to be 15 before the court for any reason, simply put in a letter and we 16 will get something on the calendar as soon as we conceivably 17 can. 18 With that, Mr. Cohen, let me ask counsel if there is 19 any reason that we should not turn now to the argument for 20 bail? 21 MR. COHEN: No, your Honor. 22 THE COURT: 23 : No, your Honor. Thank you. 24 THE COURT: All right. I will hear on that question. 25 It is the government's motion for detention, so I propose SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066237  23 k7e2MaxC kjc hearing from the government first, and then any alleged victims who have indicated that they wish to be heard pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 3771(a)(4), and then I will hear from Mr. Cohen. 4 Any objection to proceeding thusly, Mr. Cohen? 5 MR. COHEN: No, your Honor. 6 THE COURT: 7 : Thank you, your Honor. 8 Your Honor, as we set forth in our moving papers, the 9 government strongly believes that this defendant poses an 10 extreme risk of flight. Pretrial Services has recommended 11 detention, the victims seek detention, and the government 12 respectfully submits that the defendant should be detained 13 pending trial. 14 Your Honor, there are serious red flags here. The 15 defendant has significant financial means. It appears that she 16 has been less than candid with Pretrial Services. She has not 17 come close to thoroughly disclosing her finances to the court. 18 She has strong international ties and appears to have the 19 ability to live beyond the reach of extradition. She has few, 20 if any, community ties, much less a stable residence that she 21 can propose to the court to be bailed to. And she has a strong 22 incentive to flee to avoid being held accountable for her 23 crimes. 24 Because the defendant is charged with serious offenses 25 involving the sexual abuse of minors, your Honor, there is a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066238  2, k7e2MaxC kjc legal presumption that there are no conditions that could reasonably assure her return to court and, your Honor, the defendant has not come anywhere close to rebutting that 4 presumption. 5 Turning first to the nature and seriousness of the 6 offense and the strength of the evidence, the indictment in 7 this case arises from the defendant's role in transporting 8 minors for unlawful sexual activity and enticing minors to 9 travel to engage in unlawful sexual active and participating in 10 a conspiracy to do the same. The indictment further charges 11 that the defendant perjured herself, that she lied under oath 12 to conceal her crimes. 13 Your Honor, the charged conduct in this case is 14 disturbing and the nature and circumstances of the offense are 15 very serious. The defendant is charged with participating in a 16 conspiracy to sexually exploit the vulnerable members of our 17 community. In order to protect the privacy of the victims, I'm 18 not going to go into details, your Honor, about the particular 19 victims beyond what's contained in the indictment and our 20 briefing; but, as the indictment alleges, the defendant enticed 21 and groomed girls who were as young as 14 years old for sexual 22 abuse by Jeffrey Epstein, a man who she knew was a predator 23 with a preference for underaged girls. The indictment alleges 24 that the defendant participated in some of these acts of abuse 25 herself, including sexualized massages in which the victims SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066239  25 k7e2MaxC kjc were sometimes partially or fully nude. She also encouraged these minors to engage in additional acts of abuse with Jeffrey Epstein. The indictment makes plain, your Honor, this was not 4 a single incident or a single victim or anything isolated but, 5 instead, it was an ongoing scheme to abuse multiple victims for 6 a pattern of years. This is exceptionally serious conduct. 7 Given the strength of the government's evidence and 8 the serious charges in the indictment, there is an incredibly 9 strong incentive for the defendant to flee, an incentive for 10 her to become at that fugitive to avoid being held accountable 11 and to avoid a lengthy prison sentence. 12 The history and characteristics of the defendant 13 underscores the risk of flight that she poses. The Pretrial 14 Services report confirms that the defendant has been moving 15 from place to place for some time, your Honor; and most 16 recently it appears that she spent the last year making 17 concerted efforts to conceal her whereabouts whilst moving 18 around New England, most recently to New Hampshire, which I 19 will discuss momentarily with respect to that particular 20 THE COURT: 21 : -- property. 22 THE COURT: there is one assertion in the 23 defense papers that I don't think I have seen the government's 24 response to, and that is the contention that Ms. Maxwell, 25 through counsel, kept in touch with the government since the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066240  Lb k7e2MaxC kjc arrest of Mr. Epstein. Is that accurate and did that include information as to her whereabouts? : Your Honor, that information did not include 4 information about her whereabouts for starters; and, second, 5 your Honor, the defendant's communications through counsel with 6 the government began when the government served the defendant 7 with a grand jury subpoena following the arrest of Jeffrey 8 Epstein. So it is unsurprising that her counsel reached out to 9 the government, which is in the ordinary course when an 10 investigation becomes overt. 11 The government's communications with defense counsel 12 have been minimal during the pendency of this investigation. 13 Without getting into the substance, those contacts have not 14 been substantial, your Honor. And to the court's question, 15 they certainly have not included any information about 16 defendant's whereabouts. 17 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead. 18 : Thank you, your Honor. 19 It appears that the defendant has insufficient ties to 20 motivate her to remain in the United States. With respect to 21 her family circumstances, she does not have children, she does 22 not appear to reside with any immediate family members, and she 23 doesn't have any employment that would require her to remain in 24 the United States. 25 But, by contrast, she has extensive international SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066241  27 k7e2MaxC kjc ties. While she is a naturalized citizen of the United States, she is a citizen of France and the United Kingdom. She grew up in the United Kingdom and has a history of extensive 4 international travel. She owns a property in the 5 United Kingdom. Your Honor, there is a real concern here that 6 the defendant could live beyond the reach of extradition 7 indefinitely. 8 The government has spoken with the Department of 9 Justice attach6s in the United Kingdom and France. 10 With respect to France, we have been informed that 11 France will not extradite a French citizen to the United States 12 as a matter of law, even if the defendant is a dual citizen of 13 the United States. 14 As well, we have been informed that there is an 15 extradition treaty between the United Kingdom and the United 16 States. The extradition process would be lengthy, the outcome 17 would be uncertain, and it's very likely that the defendant 18 would not be detained during the pendency of such an 19 extradition proceeding. 20 Those circumstances raise real concerns here. 21 Particularly because the defendant appears to have the 22 financial means to live beyond the reach of extradition 23 indefinitely. As we detailed in our briefing, your Honor, the 24 defendant appears to have access to significant and 25 undetermined and undisclosed wealth. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066242  28 k7e2MaxC kjc In addition to the financial information described in the government's memoranda, we note, your Honor, that in the Pretrial Services report it appears that the defendant tried 4 initially to brush off the subject of her finances when the 5 Pretrial Services officer asked her, noting that she didn't 6 have those details. The defendant ultimately provided limited, 7 unverified, and questionable information that now appears in 8 the Pretrial Services report. She listed bank accounts 9 totaling less than a million dollars and a monthly income of 10 nothing. Zero dollars per month of income. 11 In addition to the matter of her finances, the report 12 raises other concerns about whether the defendant has been 13 fully transparent with the court or whether she is being 14 evasive. 15 THE COURT: you have emphasized the 16 indication on the financial report of zero dollars of the 17 income. Does the government think that there is income? Is 18 there some uncertainty as to whether that is investment income 19 as opposed to employment income or the like? What is the 20 reason for the emphasis on that or to the extent it is an 21 indication that the government finds that implausible? 22 : Yes, your Honor. 23 Separate from the matter of employment, it is very 24 unclear whether the defendant is receiving proceeds from trust 25 accounts or an inheritance or means of other kinds. It is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00066243  29 k7e2MaxC kjc simply implausible that the defendant simply has a lump set of assets and no other stream of income, especially given the lifestyle that she has been living and as detailed in the 4 Pretrial Services report. It just doesn't make sense. Either 5 there are other assets or there is other income. We can't make 6 sense of this lifestyle and this set of financial disclosures. 7 This just doesn't make sense. And as I will detail in a 8 moment, your Honor, it is inconsistent with the limited 9 reference we have been able to obtain as we have been making an 10 effort to trace the defendant's finances. 11 On that subject, your Honor, the report does raise 12 concerns about whether the defendant has been fully transparent 13 about her finances. As one example, the defendant told 14 Pretrial Services that the New Hampshire property was owned by 15 a corporation, that she does not know the name of the 16 corporation, but that she was just permitted to stay in the 17 house. It is difficult to believe that that was a forthcoming 18 answer because it is implausible on its face and very 19 confusing, but the government has continued to investigate the 20 circumstances surrounding the purchase of that New Hampshire 21 property. 22 This morning, your Honor, I spoke with an F.B.I. agent 23 who recently interviewed a real estate agent involved in that 24 t