EFTA00085001.pdf

7.7 LBTCMAXVD1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v. 20 CR 330 (AJN) 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL, 5 Defendant. Jury Trial 6 New York, N.Y. 7 November 29, 2021 10:30 a.m. 8 Before: 9 HON. ALISON J. NATHAN, 10 District Judge 11 APPEARANCES 12 DAMIAN WILLIAMS United States Attorney for the 13 Southern District of New York BY: 14 15 Assistant United States Attorneys 16 HADDON MORGAN AND FOREMAN 17 Attorneys for Defendant BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA 18 CHRISTIAN R. EVERDELL LAURA A. MENNINGER 19 -and- BOBBI C. STERNHEIM 20 -and- RENATO STABILE 21 Also Present: 22 23 Paralegal, U.S. Attorney's Office Ann Lundberg, 24 Paralegal, Haddon Morgan and Foreman 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085001  721 LBTCMAXVD1 (In open court) (Voir dire resumed) THE COURT: I have an update. So the one juror on the 4 fifth floor, who's not here, we've not been able to reach and 5 left a message. The two jurors in 110, here, are not here. 6 One we've not been able to reach and left a message and the 7 other forgot and is not on the way. 8 So I propose, counsel, that we take the next available 9 juror in on the first floor. 10 : That's fine with the government, your 11 Honor. 12 MR. EVERDELL: That's fine with defense, as well, your 13 Honor. 14 THE COURT: I will note that the first available juror 15 on the first floor on the list is the individual who is one of 16 the two who are not here, the one who we haven't reached, and 17 left a message. 18 So let me tell you where we are. 19 On the fifth floor, it's 117 who's not here. Then on 20 the first floor, it's 169 and 273. So we would move 170 to the 21 fifth floor. 22 Okay, 23 : Yes, your Honor. 24 Would your Honor mind repeating those numbers, please, 25 one more time? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085002  725 LBTCMAXVD1 THE COURT: Of course. Not present are 117, 169, and 273. So, by my count, the next juror from the first floor that we would move to the fifth floor is 170. 4 : Thank you, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: Ms. Sternheim? 6 MS. STERNHEIM: No objection. 7 THE COURT: I'll direct my staff to have 170 move to 8 the fifth floor. Once they're settled, we'll get the live feed 9 going and I'll ask the questions. 10 Counsel, do you want to have somebody go to the 11 courtroom since we're close to that point? 12 : Yes, please, your Honor. 13 MS. MENNINGER: Yes, your Honor. 14 MS. STERNHEIM: I believe they're already there, but 15 I'm just checking. We're fine. 16 THE COURT: Okay. 17 : Your Honor, just to clarify, are we 18 sending a representative to both of the overflow rooms or just 19 one overflow room? 20 THE COURT: We have 40 in 506, so we can start there. 21 I'm going to ask both rooms if there are any "yes" responses. 22 So it's up to you. 23 : Thank you, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: We now have 40 jurors on the fifth floor. 25 So I think I'm ready to direct court staff to allow the live SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085003  726 LBTCMAXVD1 feed to the juror rooms on the fifth floor and the first floor. We've confirmed that they've got the feed. : Apologies, your Honor. If the second pool 4 of jurors is on the first floor -- I went down to the first 5 floor to observe and court security told me I was not permitted 6 to enter the courtroom. If that's the Court's preference -- 7 THE COURT: Of course. We'll take care of it. 8 : Thank you so much, your Honor. 9 THE COURT: You have your government credentials, I 10 suppose? 11 : Yes, your Honor. 12 THE COURT: You can head back down, . We'll 13 ensure that you're permitted in. I apologize. Good to know we 14 have security, but -- () 15 Good morning, everyone. I'm told that the live feed 16 now is working in the courtroom where our jurors are. Thank 17 you so much. 18 Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, welcome back to the 19 Southern District of New York and thank you again for your time 20 and service. I'm just going to pause for a moment to make sure 21 that we get confirmation that we have counsel in both rooms and 22 that the audio/video is working. 23 We have confirmation, so we can proceed. 24 As I said, welcome back to the Southern District of 25 New York. Ladies and gentlemen, we are here for the third and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085004  727 LBTCMAXVD1 final step of selecting a jury to serve in this case. Members of the jury panel, I'm going to ask two questions for everyone. If your answer to either question is 4 yes, please just raise your hand. 5 My first question is, since you were here for 6 individual questioning by me, have you read, heard, seen, or 7 researched anything about the case or discussed the case with 8 anybody. 9 My second question is, do you feel, for any reason, 10 that you could not be a fair and impartial juror in this case. 11 Now is the final opportunity to say so. 12 If your answer to either question is yes, please raise 13 your hand, otherwise please sit quietly until I give you 14 further direction. Thank you so much. 15 We have one juror who we'll bring up to speak to and 16 I'll ask the audio/video feed to the jury rooms to please be 17 turned off at this time. I'll give you further instruction 18 shortly. Thank you so much for your patience. () 19 Counsel, so we have just one hand, I understand, in 20 both rooms, and that's a juror on the fifth floor, number 87. 21 Just trying to get clarification on whether there were 22 any hands in 110. Sounds like we did have some hands in 110, 23 but just the one in 506. 24 Can I ask counsel in the room if that's in 506, the 25 one hand? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085005  728 LBTCMAXVD1 MR. ROHRBACH: Yes, your Honor. MS. MENNINGER: Correct. THE COURT: So we'll bring in juror 87. 4 (Juror present) 5 Good morning, juror 87. 6 JUROR: Good morning. 7 THE COURT: You had a "yes" response? 8 JUROR: Yes, that's right. 9 : Your Honor, I apologize, but has 10 not returned back to the courtroom. May we please wait for her 11 to return? 12 THE COURT: Sure. Could you test your volume? 13 JUROR: Test. Is that better? 14 THE COURT: That's good. Thank you. 15 : Thank you, your Honor. She's on her way. 16 THE COURT: Maybe she got detained. 17 Okay. Juror number 87, you had a "yes" response to 18 one of my questions. Go ahead. 19 JUROR: Yes. So you had asked if I had discussed this 20 case. Well, the answer is unfortunately yes. Just based on 21 the timeline I provided the people that I work with, as well as 22 the extensive media coverage, people I work with were pretty 23 able to easily piece together what case this was. As such, 24 they wanted to express their opinions and were pretty adamant 25 and compassionate about the case. So I wanted to be fully SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085006  729 LBTCMAXVD1 transparent and disclose that I discussed the case. THE COURT: Did you cut them off when they were talking to you or discuss back? 4 JUROR: I tried to, to be honest, but some of the 5 people that were speaking to me, I didn't feel comfortable 6 doing that with. So in some cases, I did not. 7 THE COURT: Counsel, without objection? 8 : No objection, your Honor. 9 MR. PAGLIUCA: No, your Honor. Thank you. 10 THE COURT: Thank you for your candid response. I 11 will excuse you. Thank you. The jury department will tell you 12 how to check out. Thank you. 13 (Juror not present) 14 Counsel, I think then we can move -- there were some 15 hands in 110, but not the next juror, which is 181. So I think 16 we can move juror 181 to the fifth floor and you can exercise 17 your peremptories with 181 as the final juror in the room. 18 Everybody agree with that? 19 : Yes, your Honor. 20 MR. PAGLIUCA: Yes, your Honor. 21 MS. STERNHEIM: Yes. 22 THE COURT: So I will ask that juror 181 be brought to 23 the fifth floor, please. 24 Just going to get confirmation when 181 is on the 25 fifth floor and then I'll bring you up for alternating SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085007  730 LBTCMAXVD1 peremptories. Mr. Pagliuca. MR. PAGLIUCA: Yes, your Honor. I'm confirming juror 4 119 is now in the 28th spot? 5 THE COURT: That's correct. 6 MR. PAGLIUCA: Thank you. 7 (At the sidebar) 8 THE COURT: Counsel, if you want to look at the jury 9 wheel while we're waiting. 10 Counsel, I do have confirmation that we now have our 11 30 jurors on the fifth floor and we can do our peremptories. 12 Defense first two is? 13 MR. PAGLIUCA: 63 and 21, your Honor. 14 : Government would strike juror number 93, 15 your Honor. 16 THE COURT: To be clear, we're just doing on the first 17 ? 18 MS. STERNHEIM: Yes. 19 THE COURT: Okay. 20 MR. PAGLIUCA: Juror number 54 and juror number 82. 21 THE COURT: Okay. 22 : Juror number 27, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: Okay. 24 MR. PAGLIUCA: Juror number 22. 25 THE COURT: Okay. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085008  731 LBTCMAXVD1 MR. PAGLIUCA: Juror number 8. THE COURT: Okay. : Juror number 14. 4 THE COURT: Okay. 5 MR. PAGLIUCA: Juror number 30. 6 : Juror number 108. 7 MR. PAGLIUCA: Juror number 96. 8 THE COURT: Okay. 9 : Juror number 113. 10 THE COURT: Okay. 11 MR. PAGLIUCA: Juror number 62. 12 THE COURT: Last one for the government. 13 : Juror number 20. 14 THE COURT: Okay. Last one for defense. 15 MR. PAGLIUCA: Number 93, your Honor. 16 : Your Honor, I believe I struck 93 first. 17 MR. PAGLIUCA: I'm sorry. Juror number 13, your 18 Honor. 19 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Everybody good with the 20 regular jury? Okay. 21 Now I'll do alternates, alternating three each on the 22 29 through 40 beginning with the government. 23 : Juror number 132, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Defense. 25 MR. PAGLIUCA: Number 129. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085009  732 LBTCMAXVD1 THE COURT: : 126. MR. PAGLIUCA: 162. 4 THE COURT: Last one for the government. 5 : Your Honor, the government is going to 6 waive its third strike for alternates. 7 THE COURT: So, defense has one more and the highest 8 number not struck will also be struck in light of the 9 government's waive. 10 MR. PAGLIUCA: Number 147, your Honor. 11 THE COURT: Okay. So 147 is struck. That means 181 12 is out, as well. Correct? 13 : I believe that's right, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: I'm going to start the feed again and read 15 those numbers and then will take the selected 16 jurors to the jury room and then I'll ask if the rest can be 17 excused and if you say yes, I'll excuse them. So I need the 18 feed. 19 (In open court) 20 THE COURT: Okay, we are ready to proceed. Thank you, 21 members of the jury panel, for your patience. I'm going to 22 read the numbers of the selected jurors. Those jurors will 23 please then gather their belongings and my courtroom deputy, 24 , will escort you in a moment to the jury room. 25 The following numbers are the selected jurors: Number SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085010  733 LBTCMAXVD1 2, number 7, 26, 29, 37, 48, 49, 50, 58, 70, 89, 119, 124, 125, 149, 151, 152, and 170. I'll read those numbers again as is going to escort the selected jurors to the jury 4 room. Everyone else please remain quietly in your seats until 5 I give further instruction. 6 So again, the selected jurors are 2, 7, 26, 29, 37, 7 48, 49, 50, 58, 70, 89, 119, 124, 125, 149, 151, 152, and 170. 8 Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen. I'll ask you 9 to please remain quietly in your seats if your number was not 10 called until I give you further instruction. If your number 11 was called, I'll ask you to gather your belongings and follow 12 instruction of the jury staff and my courtroom deputy, 13 , who will take you to the jury room. 14 We can stop the feed for the moment. 15 Counsel, the feed is off to the jury rooms. We're 16 bringing the selected jurors down to the jury room. 17 Let me ask counsel if there is any reason why the 18 remaining jurors on the panel cannot be excused at this time. 19 : No, your Honor. 20 MR. PAGLIUCA: No, your Honor. 21 THE COURT: As soon as I have confirmation that the 18 22 jurors are in the jury room, I'll go back on the live feed and 23 thank the jurors who are going to be excused. 24 Let me ask, who will do the opening for the 25 government? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085011  734 LBTCMAXVD1 : I will, your Honor. THE COURT: What is your time approximation? : I will estimate about 25 minutes, your 4 Honor. 5 THE COURT: Who will do the opening for the defense? 6 MS. STERNHEIM: I will, Judge. 7 THE COURT: And how long? 8 MS. STERNHEIM: I hope to keep it under an hour. 9 THE COURT: Thank you. What I anticipate, as I said, 10 as soon as we get the jurors in the jury room, I'll go back on 11 and thank and excuse the remaining jurors. We'll get them 12 settled in the jury room, the bathroom and the like, and then 13 bring them out, swear them in, preliminary instructions. We'll 14 see if we can do both or if it makes sense to break for lunch 15 at the time after the government opens. We'll see where we 16 are. 17 Ms. Sternheim. 18 MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, after the jury is sworn and 19 taken to the jury room, may we have just a quick break? 20 THE COURT: The jury is going to the jury room now, 21 then I'll bring them in, swear them, and we'll go straight to 22 openings. So would you like a break now? 23 MS. STERNHEIM: I would. 24 THE COURT: Let me see if I can excuse our other 25 jurors and then we'll break. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085012  735 LBTCMAXVD1 MS. STERNHEIM: Of course. THE COURT: Counsel, will there be any visuals during openings? 4 : No, your Honor. 5 MS. STERNHEIM: Just me. 6 THE COURT: So for the overflow rooms, we're sorting 7 out cameras. So after I instruct the jury, we'll have the 8 overflow room cameras on the podium box, but we wanted to see 9 if we needed to show any visuals, as well, and it sounds like 10 no. Great. 11 Just, it takes some time, given distancing, to move 18 12 people between the floors. So as soon as I get confirmation 13 that they are in the jury room, as I said, I'll excuse the 14 other jurors. 15 (Continued on next page) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085013  736 LBTVMAXVD2 THE COURT: Counsel, we have all the jurors down. There's one juror indicating that they'd like to speak to me about their employer. If you're comfortable, I would have the 4 court reporter and I go into the robing room and speak to them 5 and then report back, if that's okay. 6 : No objection, your Honor. 7 MS. STERNHEIM: No objection. 8 THE COURT: All right. We'll do that. 9 (Pages 737 to 738 SEALED) 10 (Continued on next page) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085014  LBTVMAXVD2 (In the robing room) (Counsel not present) (Juror present ) 4 THE COURT: You have a concern with your employer? 5 JUROR: Yes. So last we spoke, I knew that there 6 would be some issue with me being out for six weeks. So I 7 spoke with HR; and they mentioned that the company policy 8 states that they would cover two weeks of jury duty paid time 9 off. And then after the two weeks, they would use, like, my 10 personal time off, like vacation. Currently now I don't have 11 enough to cover for the four weeks remaining. And if I were 12 out for four weeks, that's unpaid time. So that would be a 13 financial hardship on my end, which just doesn't -- I wouldn't 14 be able to, you know, pay bills and stuff like that. So, you 15 know, that financial hardship I wouldn't be able to take on. 16 And the company's policy just states that they cover the two 17 weeks of paid time. And then after that's done, they would go 18 into my PTO for the remaining time, and I don't have that 19 amount of PTO currently. So then that accounts to four weeks 20 of unpaid time. 21 THE COURT: And tell me about what that means in terms 22 of hardship. Given where we are at this stage and everybody's 23 going to face some difficulty, tell me what it means to you in 24 terms of hardship. 25 JUROR: That means like my rent, loans, car payment, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085015  738 LBTVMAXVD2 you know, just living expenses in New York, it means a lot. THE COURT: Tell me who your employer is. JUROR: 4 5 That's the corporate umbrella. And then 6 the local brand is • 7 THE COURT: So you get two weeks for jury duty, and 8 then it's into your paid time off. And how much do you have of 9 that remaining? 10 JUROR: Yeah. So two weeks for paid time off, but 11 I've used four days so far for coming in for jury duty. So 12 that would be a balance of six by way of the company's policy. 13 And then -- six days by way of the company's policy. And then 14 after that, they would use my accrued paid time off, which I 15 believe through the calculations that they mentioned through 16 the end of the year, I would have about five days. And then 17 once that's completed, they would -- I would be placed on 18 unpaid leave, which that's about three and a half weeks or so. 19 So three and a half weeks, my salary, that's essentially a 20 month, which would put me behind with car payments, my school 21 loans, my rent, etc., especially since it's the holiday season, 22 so -- 23 THE COURT: All right. I'm going to send you back to 24 the jury room. I'll let you know. 25 (Juror not present) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085016  739 LBTVMAXVD2 (In open court) THE COURT: Okay. We have a juror indicating financial hardship. The juror has further conferred with their 4 employer, was told that they get two weeks of paid time for 5 jury duty, four days of which have been used up. After that, 6 they can go to their paid time off. They only have about five 7 days remaining, and unpaid leave after that. And the juror has 8 indicated that that is a substantial financial hardship. 9 And I'll tell you, I also have another juror who has 10 indicated that their spouse surprised them with a trip. I'm 11 getting the dates of the trip. That's where we are. 12 How would you like to proceed, 13 : Your Honor, I believe the juror who 14 expressed financial hardship should be struck for cause. 15 MR. PAGLIUCA: I think I'd like to know what juror 16 number we're talking about here, your Honor. 17 THE COURT: Well, I think that not matters to the 18 analysis. 19 MR. PAGLIUCA: I think it does, to the extent that we 20 exercised peremptory challenges already and accepted this jury 21 and excused the remaining jurors. 22 THE COURT: Well, I haven't excused remaining jurors 23 yet. So I think the question is whether anybody wants to try 24 to do anything with the remaining jurors if this juror needs to 25 be struck for cause. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085017  740 LBTVMAXVD2 One option, counsel, we had an unstruck juror. There was a juror on whom nobody exercised a peremptory who has not been excused. We could sub in that person since nobody 4 exercised a peremptory. 5 MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, may I offer a suggestion that 6 has been done by colleagues of yours in years past? Depending 7 on who the employer is, if it's a large employer, judges have 8 contacted the employer and inquired whether they would be 9 willing to expand their policy. And it has been successful. 10 THE COURT: I can try that. 11 : The government would have no objection to 12 that, your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Okay. So I'll try that now. 14 The other juror has indicated that the spouse 15 surprised them with a trip December 24th through 28th. So we 16 are to be sitting two of those days. I have not spoken to that 17 juror yet, but can, and see if there's any flexibility there. 18 So I'll call -- I'll try calling the employer of the juror 19 who's indicated hardship. 20 In the meantime, perhaps think about my suggestion, 21 which is that there is an unstruck juror who, because the 22 government waived a peremptory -- now, I recognize the defense, 23 knowing that the government waived the peremptory, knew that 24 that juror would drop off, if not. But nonetheless, it's an 25 unstruck juror, so we could potentially pick that person up if SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085018  LBTVMAXVD2 we need to. I will see about calling the employer. And then I would also suggest I'll speak to the other juror with the trip 4 with the court reporter and find out if there's any potential 5 flexibility there. 6 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 7 (Pages 742 to 744 SEALED) 8 (Continued on next page) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085019  742 LBTVMAXVD2 (In the robing room) (Counsel not present) (Juror present) 4 THE COURT: Juror 58. How are you? 5 Please have a seat. 6 So I've been told that you have a surprise trip 7 planned. 8 JUROR: Yes, my wife surprised me with a trip. 9 THE COURT: And that was the kind of information I was 10 looking for, for any reason you can't serve. Now that we're at 11 this point in the process, I need to ask whether it's possible 12 to move that trip? 13 JUROR: It's possible to move? I believe we can. I 14 think we've got insurance on there. I will speak to her again 15 afterwards and see if we can move it. 16 THE COURT: If you can, if she can move it, are you 17 able to serve? 18 JUROR: Yes. If she's able to move it, I will be able 19 to serve. 20 THE COURT: Okay. Can I let you use a phone and you 21 can call her if I give you some privacy? 22 JUROR: Sure. 23 THE COURT: If you know her number. I don't know 24 anybody's number. 25 (Pause) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085020  743 LBTVMAXVD2 JUROR: She said unfortunately it can't be moved, but she will try. But I'm not sure if you guys could wait that long anyway. 4 When you asked that question earlier, I just figured, 5 you know, you said, you know, if you saw something or if you 6 know you were still going to be unfair, had I known, I would 7 have said something then. But she said unfortunately, right 8 now she don't think it could be changed. Because she's in 9 school right now. So when we get home, she's going to see if 10 it could be changed. 11 THE COURT: Well, okay. 12 I'm going to hope that it can be changed. 13 JUROR: Okay. 14 THE COURT: I'll talk to the lawyers about how they 15 want to proceed, but I'm going to assume for now you're going 16 to stay on the jury. 17 JUROR: Okay. 18 THE COURT: And hopefully it can be moved or we can 19 accommodate in some way. 20 JUROR: Okay. 21 THE COURT: But at this stage we need you to stay, 22 unless it's impossible. 23 JUROR: Okay. 24 THE COURT: Okay? All right. Thank you. 25 JUROR: All right. So I'll be back again SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085021  714 LBTVMAXVD2 THE COURT: Well, you're going to go back to the jury room now and then I'll let you know -- JUROR: Okay. 4 THE COURT: -- what's next. 5 JUROR: Okay. 6 THE COURT: Okay? 7 JUROR: Thank you. 8 THE COURT: Thank you. But for now, you're staying. 9 JUROR: All right. Thank you. 10 (Juror not present) 11 (Continued on next page) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085022  745 LBTVMAXVD2 (In open court) THE COURT: Okay. Here's my update: We're still gathering the employer information on the juror. They needed 4 to go get their phone and get the contact information. So 5 we're working on that. So I haven't called yet. 6 In the meantime, I did speak to the other juror whose 7 spouse surprised them with a trip from the 24th to the 28th. 8 They weren't sure if it was movable, tried calling the spouse, 9 and basically just isn't sure at this point if it's movable. 10 My view is we charge ahead with that juror, hope that 11 it's movable. I suppose, worst-case scenario, we could arrange 12 when we sit, but I'm not inclined to not sit that week. But 13 I'm going to hope it's movable. That's my view. You tell me. 14 MS. STERNHEIM: I'll speak first. 15 That's fine. 16 : That's fine with the government, your 17 Honor. 18 THE COURT: All right. 19 So I'm going to let that juror know to keep pressing 20 to see what options are moving, and that my intention is to 21 keep them on the jury. 22 With that, I'll step down in order to try to call the 23 employer. Once I get that information, in the meantime, any 24 thoughts on whether to -- if this doesn't work, to keep the 25 unstruck juror? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085023  746 LBTVMAXVD2 : Yes, your Honor. The government's proposal would be to take the unstruck juror, make that juror the sixth alternate, and proceed from there. 4 THE COURT: Okay. 5 You still want to think about it, Ms. Sternheim? 6 MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, our feeling is had we known 7 this was going to happen during the choosing of the jurors, we 8 would have exercised differently. I think the remedy is to 9 give each side a peremptory back. 10 : Your Honor, I don't believe that that 11 would be -- 12 THE COURT: How would that work? And exercise with 13 respect to whom? 14 MS. STERNHEIM: With regard to the alternates. 15 THE COURT: You mean re -- 16 MS. STERNHEIM: Yes. 17 THE COURT: Restrike on alternates? 18 MS. STERNHEIM: Yes. It's the easiest way of doing 19 it, just one. 20 : Your Honor, one alternative might be if we 21 took the next three unstruck jurors and each side had a 22 simultaneous strike. 23 THE COURT: Or alternating strike. 24 : Or alternating strike. 25 MS. STERNHEIM: That is fine. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085024  747 LBTVMAXVD2 THE COURT: Okay. Why don't you work on that. But let me actually -- I think we might run into where we had some hands. 4 : Your Honor, my list would be that that 5 would be we have Juror 181, 189, and 195 as the next three. 6 THE COURT: I believe we had hands raised for 189 and 7 195. So perhaps we could go -- 8 MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, would you please repeat those 9 two numbers, the jurors that you believe had issues? 10 THE COURT: So this was what -- I didn't follow up on 11 this because it was preliminary, but I got a note that the 12 following jurors in 110 had raised their hand: 189, 195, 198, 13 235, 239, and 261. 14 I will step down while you think about how you want to 15 proceed if we do go down one the other option is to proceed 16 with five alternates. Just not what I'd hoped to do out of the 17 gate. But let me make this call and you think about if we lose 18 somebody, how you want to proceed. I'll hear your requests 19 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 20 (Recess) 21 THE COURT: All right. Here's my update: 22 I just spoke to the human resources person at the 23 entity where the juror works. The policy is two weeks paid 24 But I urged consideration of some -- whether there might be an 25 ability to do more on that, and she said she would check. And SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085025  748 LBTVMAXVD2 I said I could give her about ten minutes. So we will wait and see what the word is there. I would also like to just bring back the juror who had 4 the trip plan with the court reporter and just let that juror 5 know that I do intend to keep them on the jury and urge efforts 6 to move the trip plans in light of where we are in this 7 process. I'll let you know if anything further develops with 8 that. 9 Otherwise, anything? 10 : Your Honor, I believe the parties have 11 reached agreement on what to do if one of these jurors cannot 12 proceed. 13 THE COURT: Okay. 14 : I believe the parties are in agreement 15 that we would bring back the juror who would have been seated 16 had the government not waived, if that makes sense. 17 THE COURT: It does. 18 : Juror No. 181, I believe it is. I think 19 we have agreed that that juror should be seated as the sixth 20 alternate. 21 THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Sternheim? 22 MS. STERNHEIM: That is the most efficient thing to do 23 at this point. 24 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. I appreciate that. 25 I think that's a good backup solution. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085026  749 LBTVMAXVD2 So let me speak to the juror with the trip planned, wait the ten minutes that I've given this human resources person to respond, and then we'll get underway. 4 : Thank you, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: Thank you. 6 MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, will we still be given a break? 7 THE COURT: Yes. 8 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 9 THE COURT: Let me suggest that you take a break now 10 also. 11 MS. STERNHEIM: Okay. 12 THE COURT: Because I think it will be at least 10 to 13 15 minutes before I return. 14 MS. STERNHEIM: All right. Thank you. 15 THE COURT: Thank you. 16 (Pages 750 to 751 SEALED) 17 (Continued on next page) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085027  750 LBTVMAXVD2 (In robing room) (Counsel not present) (Juror present) 4 THE COURT: Hi, Juror 58. 5 JUROR: Hi. 6 THE COURT: Just wanted to let you know we are going 7 to keep you on the jury. 8 JUROR: Okay. 9 THE COURT: Want you to do everything you can to try 10 to move that. 11 JUROR: Okay. 12 THE COURT: I'm happy to call the airline or the 13 travel agent if that would be helpful or write a letter. 14 JUROR: Okay. 15 THE COURT: See what you can do. And you can let me 16 know down the road, hopefully, that you're able to move it. 17 But let me know that you're not and we'll take it one step at a 18 time. We might not be able to sit for those days, if it's 19 necessary. 20 JUROR: Okay. 21 THE COURT: But my hope is that you guys can move it 22 and enjoy the trip when this is done. 23 JUROR: Okay. Yeah, I'll definitely go home and call 24 all the necessary parties. 25 THE COURT: That would be great. Let me know if a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085028  751 LBTVMAXVD2 letter or phone call from me would be helpful. JUROR: Okay. THE COURT: Thank you very much. 4 You can return to the jury room. 5 JUROR: Thank you so much. 6 (Juror not present) 7 (Continued on next page) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085029  752 LBTCMAXVD3 THE COURT: The update is that I don't have the information yet. The employer of this juror, they are working on it, but because it's a deviation from an existing policy, 4 they have to work it up the chain. They understand the 5 urgency, and the person I spoke to anticipated an answer within 6 an hour, but trying to do it as soon as possible. 7 I think there are a couple of options. One, we can 8 move to the juror that you agreed as our sixth alternate. The 9 other, I think, on consent, you could agree to seven alternates 10 and we could bring that juror and we proceed, and if it turns 11 out this is a hardship because this company is not able to make 12 the exception, then I will obviously, after conferring with 13 you, dismiss that juror for cause, but we could get underway or 14 we could, not knowing, dismiss the juror and move to the other 15 juror or we could simply wait until we get more information. 16 : Your Honor, the government would adopt 17 your Honor's proposal that we seat the seventh alternate and 18 proceed. 19 MS. STERNHEIM: We would prefer to wait. 20 THE COURT: And wait altogether, I presume, you mean, 21 Ms. Sternheim? 22 MS. STERNHEIM: Yes, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: I think we'll give it a cutoff, a 24 reasonable cutoff. Of course, I have two courtrooms full of 25 jurors who are waiting and maybe what it makes sense to do is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085030  LBTCMAXVD3 for me to Zoom in and let them know that the process is ongoing, we may still need them, and that I appreciate their patience. 4 Any concerns with that? 5 : No concerns with that, your Honor, but 6 given that we may be waiting an hour, would it make sense to 7 move the lunch break a little earlier, break for lunch now and 8 then have more time this afternoon? 9 THE COURT: I will check with . I believe 10 the jurors' lunch is anticipated at 1:00, so that may not be 11 possible. 12 Can I get the feed to 506 and 110, please. Let me 13 know when we're live. 14 Okay, I understand that the feed is working again with 15 the jurors in 506 and 110. 16 I want to thank you so much for your patience. The 17 reason I haven't excused you yet is because the process is 18 still ongoing. It remains possible that we would call on some 19 of you to serve jury duty, and that's why I ask you to continue 20 to wait patiently. I will provide additional information as 21 soon as I have it. Thank you very much. 22 I'll step down. Thank you. 23 (Recess) 24 (Continued on next page) 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085031  LBTVMAXVD4 THE COURT: Good news. This employer has approved the request. And so what I suggest is I tell the juror with the court reporter just so they know, send them back to the jury 4 room, bring the jury out, swear them in, and then send them 5 back for lunch, and then I'll excuse the remaining jurors. 6 Okay? 7 : Yes, your Honor. Thank you. 8 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 9 THE COURT: Thank you. 10 (Pages 755 to 756 SEALED) 11 (Continued on next page) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085032  755 LBTVMAXVD4 (In the robing room) (Counsel not present) (Juror present) 4 THE COURT: Hi, Juror 124. 5 JUROR: Hello. 6 THE COURT: So good news. You have been approved -- I 7 spoke to -- for six weeks of paid time for your jury 8 service. 9 JUROR: Fantastic. 10 THE COURT: So I'm delighted that you'll be able to 11 stay on the jury. Thank you very much. I just wanted to let 12 you know I spoke to She was terrific and ran all 13 the traps and got formal approval. So you're set. 14 JUROR: I was going to ask the details, if you spoke 15 . She may have gone through everything. 16 THE COURT: She did. And the reason we were waiting 17 is she had to run it through a number of people, including the 18 CEO and the like, I understand. And they had to get formal 19 approval, since it is a written policy, and you've been 20 approved. 21 JUROR: That's good news. That's good news. 22 All right. Thank you. 23 THE COURT: All right. 24 We'll send you back and await further instruction. 25 JUROR: Fantastic. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085033  756 LBTVMAXVD4 THE COURT: Thank you so much. JUROR: Thank you. (Juror not present) 4 (Continued on next page) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00085034  LBTVMAXVD4 (In open court) THE COURT: Okay. Message delivered. And the jurcr was pleased, and so we have our 18 jurors. 4 What I'll do is while is gathering them 5 to come in, I will thank the other j