EFTA00060876.pdf

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 4, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES Phone: EFTA00060876  2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00060877  3 1 : The recorder is on. My 2 name is and I am a Senior 3 Special Agent with the III. Department of 4 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 5 York Field Office, and these are my 6 credentials. 7 : Okay. 8 : This interview with 9 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee 10 is being conducted as part of an official III. 11 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 12 General, DOJ/OIG investigation. date 13 is August 4, 2021, and the time is 1:22 p.m. 14 This interview is being conducted at the 15 Metropolitan Correctional Center, the MCC, 16 located in New York, New York. Also present is 17 DOJ/OIG Special Agent This 18 interview will be recorded by me, SSA 19 20 Could everyone please identify themselves 21 for the record and spell your last name. To 22 start, again, I am DOJ/OIG Senior Special Agent 23 24 : This is DOJ/OIG Special Agent 25 , and these are my EFTA00060878  4 1 credentials. 2 : Thank you. And I'm 3 4 : Okay. And what is your 5 position? 6 : Supervisory Correctional 7 Systems 8 : Great. Thank you. This 9 is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into the 10 death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and the 11 surrounding circumstances, and you are being 12 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 13 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 14 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 15 : Yes. 16 : Thank you. So, a 17 form here. the United States Department 18 of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, 19 Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested 20 to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. 21 "You are being asked to provide information as 22 part of an investigation being conducted by the 23 Office of the Inspector General. This 24 investigation is being conducted, pursuant to 25 the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. EFTA00060879  5 1 This investigation pertains to job performance 2 failure and security failure. This is a 3 voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not 4 have to answer questions. No disciplinary 5 action will be taken against you if you choose 6 not to answer questions. Any statements you 7 furnish may be used as evidence in any future 8 criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary 9 proceedings, or both." 10 And a waiver section. It says, "I 11 understand the warnings and assurances stated 12 above, and I am willing to make a statement and 13 answer questions. No promises or threats have 14 been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of 15 any kind has been used against me." 16 So, again, just reminding you that 17 you do not have to answer our questions. If 18 something you feel uncomfortable with 19 or if you want to stop at any time, you can 20 say, yep, I can, I'm done. 21 : Okay. 22 : Make sense? 23 : Yes. 24 : Awesome. So, if you 25 agree with that, here, you can review this. It EFTA00060880  6 1 says signature. If you sign there, 2 and then name -- 3 : Okay. 4 : -- you can print your 5 name there. Thank you. 6 : You want my whole name? I'll 7 put it on there. (Indiscernible *00:02:38) 8 What time is it? 9 : 1:24 p.m. 10 : Thank you for completing 11 that. I can fill in the rest, though. 12 : Okay. 13 : So, where it says, 14 name, is it something other than 15 or -- 16 : No. me. 17 : Oh, a II 18 : Yeah, a II 19 : Oh, I thought it was a II 20 : Oh, no, a II 21 : Thank you. I'm filling 22 in the MCC New York as the place. And I'm 23 going to sign. Again, this is 24 and print my name. And Special 25 Agent , can you please sign? EFTA00060881  7 1 : This is Agent . I'm 2 signing as the witness. 3 : All right. And if any of 4 these, you don't feel comfortable answering, 5 totally fine. 6 : Okay. 7 : This is just to verify 8 who you are. Oh, first, before we start, I 9 need to place you under oath. Can you please 10 raise your right hand? 11 : Uh-huh. 12 : Do you swear to tell the 13 truth and nothing but the truth during this 14 interview? 15 : Yes. 16 : Awesome. And if there is 17 anything you don't understand or you want me to 18 rephrase or ask it another way, please, by all 19 means -- 20 : Okay. 21 : -- ask me to do so and I 22 will. What is your current home address? • 23 -: • 24 25 EFTA00060882  8 1 : Thank you. And your DOB? 2 • , I think, 21. 3 • 2021? 4 : My date of birth? Oh, 5 6 : Well, welcome. 7 your social security number? 8 -: 9 : And what is your current 10 cellphone number? 11 • 12 : And what is your highest 13 level of education? 14 -: 15 : And what is that degree 16 in? 17 : In 18 : And where is that from? 19 20 : And where is that? 21 : In 22 : In 23 : Uh-huh. 24 : Is, the name of the, 25 the town? EFTA00060883  9 1 : I don't, 2 an online school. 3 : Oh, okay. 4 : A 5 6 : Okay, great. And when 7 did you attend? 8 : I attended in 2017, and I 9 finished in 2019. 10 : Okay. Great. And what 11 did you do prior to working for the BOP? 12 : I used to work for 13 . I used to 14 work for a detention center. They used to 15 contract illegal immigrant kids and stuff like 16 that, for the government. 17 : Okay. And when did you 18 do that? 19 : I did that in, I started here 20 in I started there, I think it was in 21 22 : So you did that for, 23 like, three or four years? 24 : Yeah, three or four years, 25 yes. EFTA00060884  10 1 : Great. Do you have any 2 military service? 3 : No. 4 : Okay. And how long have 5 you served with the Bureau of Prisons? 6 7 8 : Do you recall your Enter 9 on Duty date? 10 . I don't know the 11 day, but I know the year, 12 : So 13 : Uh-huh. 14 : Great. And when did you, 15 do you remember when you went to BOP training, 16 when you graduated? 17 : I went in August of . I 18 went in, yeah, August, either July or August, 19 and I 20 : Okay. And what is your 21 current position with the BOP? 22 • • 23 24 : Are you familiar with 25 Jeffrey Epstein? EFTA00060885  11 1 : Yeah. I heard, all on 2 the news and stuff like that, and he was here. 3 So, yeah. 4 : Okay. Great. Sorry. 5 I'm going to circle back to that last question. 6 : Okay. 7 : As that 8 9 : Uh-huh. 10 , what does 11 that job duty and responsibilities, what does 12 that all entail? 13 : I'm the supervisor of intake, 14 intake and receiving, receiving and discharge 15 of inmates, when they come in and when they 16 leave. 17 : Okay. 18 : We supervise the staff. 19 : And you, so, basically, 20 is that considered R&D? 21 : R&D, yes. 22 : So, receiving and 23 discharging? 24 : Yes. Receiving and 25 discharging. Yes. EFTA00060886  12 1 : And you supervise all of 2 that staff? 3 : Uh-huh. 4 : And how long have you 5 been 6 : Yeah. another supervisor 7 there, also. 8 : Oh, two of you? 9 : Yeah, two of us. 10 : And who is the other one? 11 : Her name is 12 13 : Do you happen to know how 14 to spell that last name? 15 • • . But she goes 16 by 17 : Oh, okay. 18 : Yeah. 19 : So, is a second 20 last name? 21 : Yeah. Uh-huh. 22 . Uh-huh. 23 : Okay. Okay. And do you, 24 like, differentiate between your duties, the 25 two of you? EFTA00060887  13 1 : No, not really. We all do the 2 same thing, cause we're on different shifts. 3 : Okay. 4 : So, we do the same thing on 5 each shift. 6 : Okay. So you both are 7 responsible for the same thing? 8 : Yes. Uh-huh. 9 : Just different times of 10 day? 11 : Just the times of day, yes. 12 : How long have you been in 13 that position? 14 : I've been in the position, it 15 will be three years in 16 : And do you remember when 17 you started? 18 I started in 2019. 19 : Okay. Great. All right. 20 Now, are you familiar with Jeffrey Epstein? 21 : Yes. 22 : Okay. And was he housed 23 within the MCC in July and August of 2019? 24 : Yes. I think so. Yes. 25 : And you had the same EFTA00060888  14 1 position at that time, correct? 2 : Yes. 3 : And you have already 4 described your duties and responsibilities. 5 Did you have any interaction or involvement 6 with Epstein during his stay at the MCC? 7 : No. 8 : What about when he came 9 in or when he 10 : No. I don't recall. No. I 11 don't think I ever seen him. 12 : No? 13 : Huh-uh. No. 14 : Okay. 15 : Huh-uh. 16 : Not on suicide watch or 17 anything like that? 18 : No. Huh-uh. 19 : Or in SHU? 20 : No. 21 : Okay. 22 : Huh-uh. 23 : Do you recall if you 24 actually worked at the MCC on August 9th and 25 10th, 2019? EFTA00060889  15 1 : I don't recall, but I probably 2 did day watch, 6 to 2. I probably was here 3 during the day. 4 : Okay. So, 6 a.m. to 2 5 p.m.? 6 : Yes. 7 : On August 9th? 8 : Uh-huh. I probably was. I 9 got to look at my -- 10 : That would be a Friday. 11 : Yeah. I have to look at it, 12 and see if I was here. 13 : Okay. And would they 14 have been the same duties and responsibilities 15 that you have described? 16 : Yes. Yes. 17 : Okay. 18 : Uh-huh. 19 : And who would you 20 primarily work with during that time? 21 : I work with all the CSOs, 22 Correctional Systems Officers. I don't know 23 who was on that day -- 24 : Okay. 25 : -- cause that was, like, two EFTA00060890  16 1 years ago. 2 : Sure. 3 : So I don't remember who was 4 on. 5 : Do you all, like, so, R&D 6 is a different piece with us. We have, like, 7 all, like, the, oh, what is it called, the 8 daily, like, schedule and logs of everybody who 9 worked 10 : All the lieutenants, yeah, 11 the lieutenant log. 12 : Yeah. Do you guys, well, 13 this is different. I'm talking about, like, 14 the, like, who was working in the custody side 15 of the house. Do you guys have, like, anything 16 like that, like, for instance, here would be 17 the August 10, 2019 daily assignment roster. 18 : Yeah. We have a daily 19 assignment, but not a roster. 20 : Okay. 21 -: a daily assignment. It 22 will have, like, name on it, 23 and we just check off who is here. 24 : Okay. 25 : And then we'll put who is not EFTA00060891  17 1 here, like, AL for Annual Leave, SL for Sick 2 Leave. But we do have that, but it doesn't 3 look like that. 4 : Okay. So, would we be 5 able to go back and see who actually worked on 6 August 9, 2019? 7 : Ninth, yes, we should have it. 8 Yes. 9 : Can I ask you terribly to 10 do me some favors and start, can you, can we 11 start a list and ask you to, like, provide some 12 of this stuff for us? 13 : Yeah. You can write it down. 14 Uh-huh. 15 : Awesome. So, if you want 16 to start, , just, the first one would be 17 who was assigned on August 9th, August 8th and 18 9th, 2019. And did you report to anyone? Who 19 did you report to back then? 20 : My supervisor was 21 (Phonetic Sp. *00:10:12) We call him . I 22 can't even pronounce, we call, his last name, I 23 can't even pronounce his last name, but we call 24 him 25 : Okay. EFTA00060892  18 1 • over in Brooklyn now. 2 : Okay. 3 Over there. 4 : And what was his position 5 then? 6 a CMC. 7 : What does a CMC stand 8 for? 9 : Case Manager Coordinator. 10 : Okay. 11 : Yeah. CMC, Case Manager 12 Coordinator. Uh-huh. 13 : And who would be the Case 14 Manager Coordinator now? 15 -• 16 : Oh, still the same 17 one? 18 : But still the same 19 person, but just over in Brooklyn. 20 : When you say Brooklyn, at 21 the MDC? 22 MDC Brooklyn. Yes. 23 : Okay. 24 : Yes. 25 : And did all those people EFTA00060893  19 1 that you mentioned that work in R&D, did they 2 report to you? 3 : Yes. 4 : Okay. 5 : Uh-huh. Me and Ms. 6 : Okay. And were you 7 previously interviewed under this 8 investigation? 9 No. 10 : No? 11 : Huh-uh. 12 : Do you have any, what is 13 your understanding of what happened to Epstein 14 on August 9th and 10th of 2019? 15 : That he just committed 16 suicide. it. 17 : Okay. So, do you know 18 how he died? 19 : No. Huh-uh. 20 : No? Do you know if he, 21 like, died of hanging or anything like that? 22 : I guess it was hanging. I 23 heard it was hanging, but I don't, I didn't 24 really, like, ask, cause -- 25 : Okay. And do you have EFTA00060894  20 1 any information with regard to any suspicious 2 activity that occurred on August 9th or 10th, 3 2019 -- 4 : No. 5 : -- leading up to the 6 discovery of Epstein in his cell? 7 : No. 8 : No? Okay. So, these 9 are, now, we'll get into kind of the reason why 10 we're here, is to get into this documentation. 11 So, we have, an inmate, , Epstein 12 was housed with a cellmate named 13 : Uh-huh. 14 : And we have a couple of 15 things coming from the III. Marshalls Service. 16 : Okay. 17 : Saying what was going on 18 with . So, here is one. It says 19 from a 20 : Yeah, . Uh-huh. 21 • . It was sent on • 22 Thursday, August 8, 2019, at 10:34 a.m. 23 : Uh-huh. 24 : And , you're one of 25 the, it looks like it says R & - EFTA00060895  21 1 : Yeah, all R&D. Yeah. 2 : Okay. So, it was sent to 3 all R&D. 4 : Uh-huh. Yeah. 5 : And yourself, and it 6 says, "Transfer of Prisoners from NYM to GEO." 7 : To GEO, yes. 8 : So, is that from the MCC 9 to the contract facility? 10 : Yeah, from MCC, and 11 transferring to GEO, yes. 12 : Okay. Great. And then, 13 in the body, it says, "The following prisoners 14 are to be transferred." 15 : Yes. 16 : It says and 17 then 18 : Yes. 19 : "Please schedule transfer 20 for Friday, 8/9/19." 21 : Uh-huh. 22 : And we have another one, 23 the same date, it says from a different 24 person with the Marshals Service, saying - 25 • • EFTA00060896  22 1 2 : Uh-huh. 3 : Again, this is all, like, 4 R&D. 5 : R&D and other staff, yes. 6 : As well as the 7 lieutenants and, okay. 8 : Yes. Uh-huh. 9 you, and it says, 10 "Prisoner production, 8/9/2019." Thursday, 11 August 8, 2019. 12 : Was sent out -- 13 : That was sent at 3:36 14 p.m. 15 : Uh-huh. 16 : And then within it, it 17 has the schedule report, and the 18 second person, there are the two people that I 19 just listed 20 : Yes. 21 : -- and the second person 22 being 23 : Yes. 24 : And it says, "Transfer 25 within." EFTA00060897  23 : Yes. 2 : Does this tell you what 3 happened with 4 : This just says that he 5 transferred to GEO. it. what 6 this says. transferring. 7 : Okay. 8 all it says. But right 9 here, when they do a transfer, I don't know, 10 like, right here, this says court. So, I don't 11 know if he went out to court and then they 12 transferred him, you see what I'm saying? 13 : Uh-huh. 14 : Cause this says court. And 15 plus, as me being a supervisor, I don't do the 16 movement. 17 : Okay. So who, who -- 18 : I'm not the movement officer. 19 : So who would do that? 20 • 21 would be the one? 22 : Yes. Yeah, she does the 23 movement. Me and Ms. , we don't do the 24 movement. 25 : Okay. So, based upon EFTA00060898  24 1 this, does this, cause this person also is 2 listed as transfer within, court. 3 : Yeah, and court. Yes. 4 : And everybody else 5 : Uh-huh. 6 -- no one else has that 7 next to their name. They all have, like, 8 sentencing hearing, sentencing, status hearing. 9 : Yeah, but that still, the type 10 is court. just what they're going to 11 court for. 12 : Right. So, this one, 13 though, being that says transfer within, court 14 -- 15 : Transfer, transferring, 16 and he (Indiscernible *00:14:16). 17 : Does that mean he was 18 going to court, or just an automatic 19 field? 20 : I guess automatically, 21 they put that there, cause this is the III. 22 Marshals form. So, I think they automatically 23 just put that there. I think what it is, is 24 that when they come and pick up the inmates, 25 cause the III. Marshals will pick up the EFTA00060899  25 1 inmates. 2 : Uh-huh. 3 : And they will transfer them. 4 So, I guess they go sit over there, like 5 they're going to court, and then GEO comes over 6 there and they pick them up from the 7 Marshals. 8 : Okay. 9 how it works. 10 : So, when someone is 11 transferred, so, when these people are 12 transferred from here to GEO -- 13 : Uh-huh. 14 what document is 15 created by, I guess it sounds like , but 16 by the BOP (Indiscernible *00:14:53)? 17 : We only do like a, we need, 18 like a transfer receipt from the Marshals, 19 saying that they're going to transfer and we 20 usually just need a 64. 21 : Uh-huh. 22 : And a medical summary. A 64 23 is a transit form. 24 : Okay. 25 : That the BOP, that we just go EFTA00060900  26 1 on and do a PP 64 and put the reg 2 number, and we put T for transfer, and down at 3 the bottom, we could put as many reg, I think 4 like 20 reg numbers down there, of whoever 5 inmates are leaving, and then a 64 will be 6 printed out. 7 : Okay. 8 : And just a transit form. 9 : Now is there something 10 like, would these people be placed on 11 the court list, though? 12 : Yes. Yes. 13 : Okay, so they would be 14 put on the court -- 15 : They would be placed on the 16 court list, yes. Yes. 17 : And what would it say 18 next to their name? 19 : WAB. 20 : And it? 21 : Yes. it. 22 : Okay. 23 : Uh-huh. what she 24 usually puts, WAB, on there. 25 : Now, if that court list EFTA00060901  27 1 is provided to us, so if Epstein was housed in 2 the SHU, the SHU would be provided that court 3 list, correct? 4 : Yes. 5 : It would say -- 6 : It would be like a, like 7 a roster. not -- 8 : I said Epstein, I'm 9 sorry, I mean, 10 : Yeah, like -- 11 : If was housed in 12 the SHU -- 13 -: like a roster. They 14 wouldn't get this or anything like that. 15 just like you go on and you print out a 16 roster and it will have his name on there, and 17 then we'll write down what unit on, and 18 then internal will come and pick it up, or they 19 will hand it out, whatever, whoever is going 20 out to court, the unit that they give 21 the court list to. 22 : Okay. 23 how it works. 24 : So, would those people 25 know if he was going to court or being EFTA00060902  28 1 transferred? 2 : They wouldn't know that. 3 : They wouldn't know that? 4 They would just know it was WAB? : Cause really, like, 5 6 really none of their business. 7 : Right. Okay. 8 : Yeah. They would just know 9 that gone. You know what I mean? 10 : Well, because, like, kind 11 of like when you said, when I said, you knew 12 who , or, you know, Epstein was or is, 13 you said, yeah, he went to court. 14 : Yeah. Uh-huh. 15 : Cause, is that 16 : Yeah, cause, I'm - 17 : -- so, like, 18 actually the rumor? 19 what, what it 20 would be, or we'll call up there, like, are you 21 going to send down, and they will 22 say, yeah, going to court, and then if he 23 doesn't come back, we might call up there, or 24 they will know that not, cause not, 25 or they'll call us and ask us. EFTA00060903  29 1 : Okay. 2 : You know? Or something like 3 that. So, they should have, I'm thinking they 4 should have known we would have probably, 5 somebody probably would have told them that he 6 wasn't coming back, he was getting transferred. 7 : Okay. So, as far as 8 this, the daily log, 8/9/2019, and on 9 the third page of this shows , pre- 10 removed. 11 : Yes. 12 : Now, if he was just going 13 to court -- 14 : It would say court. 15 : Yeah. It wouldn't say 16 pre-removed? 17 : It wouldn't say pre-removed. 18 Yes. 19 : So, this is, by looking 20 at all of this, I'm assuming you can tell, 21 yeah, he was never going to court. He was 22 always going to be transferred? 23 : He was going, yes. Yes. Yes. 24 : Okay. And I think this 25 may have been what you were saying. Is there EFTA00060904  30 1 any way for the SHU staff to know, leaving 2 and not coming back, rather than -- 3 : See, we don't, like, it 4 depends. Cause we really don't, we really 5 don't tell them, like, if I talk to them, I 6 might say, like, not coming back. 7 : Okay. 8 : Or so, I might tell them, so I 9 don't know, on that day, who called up there 10 and told them to have him ready, you know what 11 I mean? And have him ready, and not 12 coming back. 13 : Now, who would normally 14 call and tell them that? 15 : It would be the person 16 working in R&D. 17 : Okay. So would it be 18 probably for this, as well? 19 : It wouldn't be . Yeah, 20 she just does the movement. 21 : Okay. 22 it. 23 : It wouldn't have been 24 her? 25 : No, it wouldn't have been her. EFTA00060905  31 1 : All right. 2 : She just does the movement. 3 So, it would be the person on the front 4 desk. 5 : So, if the people that 6 escorted down -- 7 : Uh-huh. 8 : -- to R&D and they knew 9 that WAB was actually, in fact, listed next to 10 his name 11 : Uh-huh. 12 should have they known 13 that he is not coming back, if it says WAB? 14 : Not really. 15 : No? 16 : Because they don't work R&D. 17 You see what I mean? They work custody. 18 : Okay. 19 : So, it depends who was up 20 there. It could have been new staff, who 21 knows. Cause a lot of people don't know what 22 WAB does. 23 : Well, they know it means 24 "with all belongings." 25 : Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. EFTA00060906  32 1 true. 2 : So, a person who would 3 say, yeah, I know with all belongings, 4 and, you know, we know very likely, there, 5 not going to come back, but we don't know 6 for sure. Does that sound at all reasonable? 7 : They probably would have 8 asked, like, called to see if he was coming 9 back. Like, it was after, maybe 4:00 or 10 something like that 11 : Then they usually would - 12 - 13 : -- they probably would have 14 asked if he was coming back, cause, like, when 15 I first transferred here, I worked in Brooklyn 16 and then I transferred to I didn't 17 know what WAB meant -- 18 : Right. 19 : -- until I got here, cause we 20 don't use WAS, you see what I mean? 21 : Yeah, but if these 22 people, if these people absolutely said no, we 23 know what WAB is 24 : WAB, yes. 25 : -- but they thought, you EFTA00060907  33 1 know, if they're claiming, well, we thought he 2 was going to court, and always a chance 3 he could come back from court? So, see what 4 I'm saying? So, with this guy 5 : Yeah. 6 -- so this goes, so where 7 this fits in is, Epstein, did you know that 8 Epstein was required to have a cellmate? 9 : I didn't know that, no. 10 : Okay. So, he was 11 required to have a cellmate, and was his 12 cellmate. 13 : Okay. 14 : So, part of the reason 15 why they're saying that Epstein died is because 16 his cellmate was removed and never replaced. 17 So, you know, some people say because of 18 the 30 minute rounds, or a lot of it is the 19 combination, some people are saying, well, 20 there was no one in his cell, so he took 21 advantage of not having anybody in there. 22 : Okay. 23 : So, in this case, the SHU 24 staff, some people are saying, yep, I knew he 25 was WAB, but always a chance that he EFTA00060908  34 1 could, he could have returned. Is that a legit 2 -- 3 : No. Not a WAB. 4 : No? So, a WAB, they 5 should have known he ain't coming back? 6 : Huh-uh. not coming back. 7 Yeah. 8 : Okay. 9 : WAB. 10 : Okay. 11 : Unless we tell you something 12 different. But a WAS, not coming back. 13 : Okay. So, the 14 primary question then. 15 : Yes. 16 : Great. So, again, to 17 you, so, (Indiscernible *00:20:19), he was 18 being transferred, not going to court. 19 : Not going to court. But I 20 guess the Marshal just put court, because when 21 they come, if a WAB is leaving with the 22 Marshals, they usually just put court, because 23 they pick the inmates up -- 24 : All the same -- 25 -- everybody at the same time, EFTA00060909  35 1 and take them over there, so why they 2 have court. 3 : Okay. 4 : On their form. 5 : So, this is, anytime we 6 present someone with documents, you just ask 7 them to initial and date it. 8 : Okay. 9 not to vouch for 10 the, not certifying accurate, just so you 11 can say, this is what we discussed. 12 : What I saw. Okay. 13 : So, just anywhere. And 14 it is the 4th. 15 : So, the two emails, 16 technically, what you're saying, this goes 17 hand-in-hand, one says being transferred, 18 the other one states that he is being picked up 19 by the Marshals (Indiscernible *00:21:09). 20 : Yeah. Yeah. They both go 21 hand-in-hand, because this one is the Marshals, 22 that they're telling us, but they're telling us 23 WAB, going to GEO. So, we'll know 24 transferring to another state. another 25 state facility that houses federal inmates for EFTA00060910  36 1 the Marshals. And then this one is the list 2 that the Marshals put out, also, so they kind 3 of go hand-in-hand. 4 : How the pick-up itself is 5 (Indiscernible *00:21:30). 6 : Yes, how the pick-up, yes. 7 But everything is going to say court on the 8 side, because the Marshals are going to pick 9 up, when they pick up the court, they're 10 picking up the WABs also. 11 : And on that court document, 12 you might have answered this already, the court 13 document created internally, it would 14 have said WAS? 15 : Yeah. Like, like almost, 16 a receipt, a transfer receipt that we do. 17 : Okay. 18 : And it will say WAB. It will 19 say, like, it will say his reg number, his 20 name, and it will say his unit and it will say 21 pre-removed, so pre-removed, that means 22 not coming back. You know what I mean? 23 : And (Indiscernible 24 *00:22:04). 25 : Pre-removed. Yeah. not EFTA00060911  37 1 coming back. So what would it be. It 2 would say pre-removed. 3 : Do you have a copy of an 4 example of what that court document looks like? 5 No, right? Is it possible that we 6 : The court list? 7 : The court list. Do we, if 8 you can provide us with one? 9 : We don't have, huh-uh. 10 : No, not that one, but any 11 type of -- 12 : Which one? 13 : -- what it looks like? 14 : Any samples? 15 : Yeah. 16 : I could 17 : Has it changed since that 18 time, that document? 19 : Cause we do a, but, yeah, the 20 Marshals, now they got a picture on theirs, the 21 picture of the inmate and stuff like that. And 22 now we sign for it. I don't know if 23 because of Epstein. I don't know. 24 : But we just want an example. 25 : Now we have to sign. EFTA00060912  38 1 : If you can provide us -- 2 : Okay. 3 : I'll put that on here. 4 : I'll put that, write that 5 down. Write down Marshals, like a Marshals 6 receipt. And I can give you a copy of it. 7 I'll black, can I out the 8 photos on there? 9 • fine. 10 : Photos and the name, if 11 you want. 12 : Okay. 13 : We just need to see 14 : You just want to see -- 15 : -- what it says next to 16 their names. 17 : Yeah, their new one. 18 : To tell the difference, 19 differentiate if -- 20 : The ones that the Marshals -- 21 : -- somebody is going to 22 court or someone is being transferred, you 23 know. 24 : Okay. 25 : With that, just so we can EFTA00060913  39 1 say, like, cause, like you said, you don't have 2 that court list anymore? 3 : No. Huh-uh. No. Huh-uh. 4 : And are they maintained 5 for any amount of period of them? 6 : We, no. Huh-uh. 7 : So that day, you get rid 8 of them? 9 : Uh-huh. Yeah. 10 : And there are never 11 emails or anything? 12 : I don't know how far my emails 13 are going to go back. You see what I'm saying? 14 I don't think my emails go all the way back. 15 : Well, we have access to 16 be able to get emails. 17 : Okay. 18 : Cause we actually got 19 those, some of these from -- 20 : So, you could probably look 21 and see. 22 : But are they ever 23 emailed? 24 : Because that would be 25 would, yeah, she would have did it, because she EFTA00060914  40 1 would email to the unit team and to medical, 2 stating that she needs a medical summary form. 3 : Okay. So, and she would 4 have sent the court list? 5 : Yeah, she would have sent the, 6 like, not, see, he would, since he is WAB, it 7 would be a receipt that she would send out, 8 saying that she needed a medical summary and a 9 64 for him. 10 : Okay. Make sure you're 11 documenting those, too. 12 : Yeah, they wouldn't get the, 13 they wouldn't get the court list, like the unit 14 team that, his unit team and the medical 15 department wouldn't get the court list. She 16 would do her own one and send it, saying that 17 they're leaving, those two are leaving and can 18 you please send me a medical summary and a 64? 19 : But the actual court list 20 wouldn't be emailed to anybody? 21 : Yeah. It probably would. I 22 don't know how the Marshal was doing it at that 23 time. I think they were doing it just like 24 that. But we don't email the Marshals court 25 list to anybody like that. EFTA00060915  41 1 : No, no, no. I mean, 2 like, don't you create what you give to the 3 SHU, saying 4 a roster. on a, 5 when we go on how created. 6 : But is it still on 7 , that -- 8 : No. It gets deleted. 9 : Okay. 10 : Yeah. And we get a new, we do 11 a new one. 12 : Every day? 13 : Yeah. And what 14 does. 15 : So, only kept for 16 that one day? 17 : Yes. Yes. Uh-huh. 18 And no way to -- 19 And not really even kept. 20 : Right. 21 : We just print it out. 22 it. Like, we got, when we go in to do another 23 one, we got to delete the old one. 24 : Okay. So, never 25 kept for any period of time, really? EFTA00060916  42 1 : No. Huh-uh. 2 : Printed out, given out 3 : Given out. Yeah. Uh-huh. 4 : -- then basically 5 shredded? 6 : Yeah. 7 : Trashed? 8 : Uh-huh. 9 : All right. So no 10 way for us, whatever was created, saying what 11 it said next to name, whether it 12 said WAB or not, no way to tell -- 13 : I can ask to see -- 14 : Yeah, yeah. We're going 15 to talk to her. 16 : Yeah. Talk to, and see if she 17 has it. 18 : When she came in, just so 19 you know, she was great. She was very 20 cooperative. 21 : Yeah. To see if -- 22 : But we didn't have these 23 documents when we talked with her. 24 : Yeah, to see if she has it. 25 If ya'll could go back in her email, I don't EFTA00060917  43 1 know how, cause the movement person. 2 : Right. 3 : So, to see how far she went 4 back. 5 : Yeah, if you could ask 6 her, I mean, it might come, mean more from you. 7 : Okay. She won't be back until 8 tomorrow. 9 : Right. And we're hoping 10 to be back here tomorrow. 11 : Okay. She won't be back until 12 12 tomorrow. She comes in at 12. 13 : Okay, perfect. Anything 14 more on before we move to 15 : No. 16 : Okay. Do you have any 17 (Indiscernible *00:25:56) any daily lieutenant 18 logs? 19 : No. None. 20 : None? All right. So, if 21 you see on this daily lieutenant log, just to 22 close out the loop with , it does actually 23 say, we don't know when it was entered, but it 24 does say at 8:38, he was pre-removed. Now, the 25 other person we wanted to talk to you about is