EFTA00116353.pdf

DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL SEPTEMBER 23, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES , Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00116353  2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00116354  3 1 MR. : This is Special Agent 2 . Today is September 23, 2021. The time 3 is 9:20 a.m., and we are beginning the 4 interview. My name is . I'm a 5 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 6 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 7 York Field Office, and these are my 8 credentials. 9 MS. : I see. 10 MR. : This interview with the 11 Federal Bureau of Prisons correctional officer 12 lieutenant, . Did I say that 13 right? 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : Is being conducted as part of 16 an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office 17 of the Inspector General, DOJ investigation. 18 Today's date is September 23rd, 2021. The time 19 is 9:20 a.m. This interview is being conduced 20 at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New 21 York City. Also present is DOJ Senior Special 22 Agent. 23 MR. . And 24 these are my credentials. Thank you. 25 MR. : This interview will be EFTA00116355  4 1 recorded by me, Special Agent 2 Could everyone please identify themselves for 3 the record, and spell your last name? To 4 start, again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent, 5 6 MR. : Senior Special Agent 7 8 MS. : I'm correctional lieutenant 9 10 MR. : Thank you. This is an 11 official DOJ/OIG investigation into the death 12 of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and you are being 13 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 14 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 15 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 16 MS. : Yes. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. : Thank you. 19 MR. : Please review DOJ/OIG form 20 I1I-226/2. The form states, United States 21 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 22 General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee 23 Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary 24 Basis. "You are being asked to provide 25 information as part of an investigation being EFTA00116356  5 1 conducted by the Office of the Inspector 2 General. This investigation is being conducted 3 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 4 as amended. This investigation pertains to job 5 performance failure, and security failure. 6 This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, 7 you do not have to answer questions. No 8 disciplinary action will be taken against you 9 if you choose not to answer questions. Any 10 statement you furnish may be used as evidence 11 in any future criminal proceedings, or agency 12 disciplinary proceedings, or both." The waiver 13 states, "I understand the Warnings and 14 Assurances stated above and I am willing to 15 make a statement and answer questions. No 16 promises or threats have been made to me, and 17 no pressure or coercion of any kind has been 18 used against me." Please read the form, and if 19 you understand -- 20 MS. : Okay. 21 MR. : -- can you please sign where 22 it says employee name, signature? 23 MR. : Need a pen? 24 MS. : Thank you. 25 MR. : Move that out of the way. EFTA00116357  6 1 MR. : Yeah. (Indiscernible 2 *00:03:03). Thank you. 3 MS. : Okay. 4 MR. : Lieutenant , do you 5 understand the form? 6 MS. : Yes. Yes, sir. 7 MR. : And you are signing the form 8 also. 9 MS. : Mm-hmm. 10 MR. : Thank you. 11 MS. : That's it. Do my name? 12 MR. : I'll fill out the -- 13 MS. : Okay. 14 MR. : -- that part. 15 MS. : No problem. 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MR. : Thank you. 18 MS. : Thank you. 19 MR. : I can fill it out, 20 21 MR. : This is Agent . I'm 22 signing on the signature of the Office of 23 Inspector General. 24 MR. : Thank you. And I am 25 going to sign as the witness and put my name. EFTA00116358  7 1 Thanks. 2 MR. : Before starting the 3 interview, I would like to place you under 4 oath. Lieutenant , can you please raise 5 your right hand? 6 MS. : Sure. 7 MR. : Do you swear to tell the 8 truth and nothing but the truth during this 9 interview? 10 MS. : Yes. Yes, sir. 11 MR. : Thank you. Please let me 12 know if you do not understand any questions, 13 and I will repeat it or try to rephrase it for 14 you. 15 MS. : Okay. 16 MR. : What is your current home 17 address? 18 MS. : 19 A1B, Brooklyn, New York. 11209. 20 MR. : Thank you. What is your date 21 of birth? 22 MS. : 23 MR. : What is your social security 24 number? 25 MS. : EFTA00116359  8 1 MR. Thank you. And what is your 2 current cell phone number? 3 MS. 4 MR. What is your highest level of 5 education? 6 MS. College. Bachelors. 7 MR. Which college? 8 MS. The College of New Rochelle. 9 MR. And what was your -? That's 10 in New York? 11 MS. : It's upstate New Rochelle, 12 New York. Yes. 13 MR. : And what was your major in? 14 MS. : I was in psychology, though I 15 believe is liberal arts. 16 MR. : What did you do prior to 17 working for the BOP? 18 MS. : I worked for the New York 19 City Police Department as a school safety 20 agent. 21 MR. : And when did you start 22 working for the BOP? 23 MS. : When did I start? 24 MR. : Start. 25 MS. : May 18, 2003. EFTA00116360  9 1 MR. : When did you graduate 2 college? 3 MS. : May of 2012 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : Thank you. Do you have any 6 military service? 7 MS. : No, sir. 8 MR. : And you said in 2003, you 9 started with the BOP? 10 MS. : Yes. 11 MR. : And when did you -? What was 12 the -? When did you first start? 13 MS. : MDC Brooklyn. 14 MR. : MDC Brooklyn? 15 MS. : Yes. 16 MR. : And you started as a C.O.? 17 MS. : Yes. 18 MR. : Okay. When did you graduate 19 from BOP training? 20 MR. : You don't remember the 21 answer? 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MR. : It was probably shortly 24 after you started, correct? 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00116361  10 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : Okay. And when did you 3 come to MCC? 4 MS. : I came to MCC January 31st, 5 2011. 6 MR. : And have you been here 7 since? 8 MS. : Yes. 9 MR. : Okay. And have you been 10 in the SIS Shop since then? 11 MS. : No. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. : I went into the SIS Shop in 14 2016. 15 MR. : 2016? 16 MS. : Yes. 17 MR. : And then, in 2019, were 18 you a lieutenant with the SIS Office? 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. : Great. 21 MR. : Okay. That's the basic 22 background we cover to -- 23 MR. : Yeah, no 24 MR. : on that. 25 MR. : -- you can go into the EFTA00116362  11 1 questions. 2 MR. : So, what we're going to talk 3 to you today about is Mr. Are you aware of 4 who Jeffrey Epstein is? 5 MS. : Yes. 6 MR. : And was he an inmate at the 7 MCC? 8 MS. : Yes. 9 MR. : Were you familiar with him 10 while he was housed here at the MCC? 11 MS. : Yeah. I would say yes. 12 MR. : Okay. Let's start off. 13 Well, were you familiar with his first suicide 14 attempt? 15 MS. : Yes. I did the first 16 investigation on that one. Yes. 17 MR. : Did that approximately, did 18 that happen approximately around July 23rd, 19 2019? 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : Can you tell us what 22 happened? Based on your investigation and what 23 you found. 24 MS. : Based on my investigation, 25 once I found out about the suicide attempt when EFTA00116363  12 1 I came to work, I spoke to the staff team, as 2 well as his cellmate, to try to get both of 3 their sides of the story. 4 MR. : Was that Tartaglione? 5 MS. : Yes. Mr. Tartaglione. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MS. : I spoke to Epstein in the R&D 8 area. He was a little hesitant, at first, 9 about speaking to me. He kept asking me who 10 was I? You know, what was I interviewing him 11 for? And I explained to him my position as the 12 SIS Lieutenant, to ensure his safety needs are 13 met, and, you know, I questioned him about the 14 alleged suicide attempt, and he said, I don't 15 remember what happened. I remember him telling 16 me he went to get a drink of water, and all he 17 remembered is he was on the floor. And the 18 staff will come in and he wouldn't provide much 19 of anything else. 20 I did question him about Mr. Tartaglione. 21 You know, did you guys have any words with each 22 other? You know, we were just cellmates at the 23 time. You know, when you went to get the drink 24 of water, and he would -. Either he say he was 25 laying on the floor, or sitting on the bed. EFTA00116364  13 1 You know? I asked him, you know, are you 2 telling me the truth? Is there anything that 3 you would like to volunteer? You know, did you 4 intentionally try to harm yourself? And at 5 times, like, I didn't try to harm myself. I 6 don't know what happened. I just got a drink 7 of water, and next thing you know, I was on the 8 floor. 9 MR. : Did you ask him if 10 attempted to harm him? 11 MS. Yes. 12 MR. : And what did he say to 13 that? 14 MS. : And he said no. 15 MR. : And he said Tartaglione 16 did not 17 MS. : Yes. 18 MR. • : -- try to harm him? 19 MS. : He said he did not. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. : Was there a noose found 22 around his neck, at that point? Do you know? 23 MS. • : I think it was. I think it 24 was. At the time. It was a rope, I want to 25 say, or something to that effect. They had EFTA00116365  14 1 brought down to the SIS Shop, that they found. 2 I can't tell you that they found it around his 3 neck because I can't remember. To be honest 4 with you. 5 MR. : And how did the C.O.s become 6 aware that he had possibly tried to commit 7 suicide? 8 MS. : To my knowledge, Mr. 9 Tartaglione is who alerted the officers, by 10 banging on the door. 11 MR. : And when the officers found 12 him, did they find a noose around his neck? 13 How did they find him, do you recall? 14 MS. : I can't recall. I know that 15 they found him on the floor. But I can't 16 recall if it was around his neck. 17 MR. : And Mr. Epstein stated that 18 Tartaglione did not try to kill him. 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. : Except there was a noose. 21 MS. : Yes. 22 MR. : Did he mention if he made the 23 noose himself, or how the noose came about? 24 MS. : No. He didn't. 25 MR. : And what was your impression EFTA00116366  15 1 after talking to him? Did you believe that he 2 tried to take his own life? 3 MS. : I kind of had mixed feelings 4 about it because he was insistent on that he 5 didn't try to take his own life. You know? 6 Normally, a person will say, okay, this was 7 going on, and he kept saying, no, I didn't try 8 to kill myself. I didn't try to kill myself. 9 I don't know what happened. So, I mean, during 10 the investigation and conclusion, I can't say 11 that he, you know, he did or he didn't, to be 12 honest with you. From the answers that I was 13 getting back from him. 14 MR. : But he stated himself that 15 Tartaglione didn't try to kill him? 16 MS. : Yes. 17 MR. : So, the only other option 18 would have possibly been that he tried to 19 commit suicide himself? 20 MS. : Right. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MR. : Or do you believe that 23 inmate Tartaglione attempted to harm him? 24 MS. : I don't. 25 MR. : Yeah. EFTA00116367  16 1 MS. : I don't. 2 MR. : So, was it inconclusive? 3 MS. : It was pretty inconclusive. 4 MR. : What is your feeling of 5 what happened, though? Being a trained 6 investigator. 7 MS. : I don't know if it was, you 8 know, looking back, I kind of felt, like, okay, 9 was this, like, did he intentionally try to do 10 something to get our attention? You know, then 11 I leaned to, maybe he didn't. You know? You 12 have two inmates in the cell. And I'm, you 13 know, I'm also looking at did, you know, did 14 Tartaglione tell me the truth. You know, I 15 really can't say what happened because you 16 have, you know, Mr. Epstein saying, you know, 17 no, he didn't try to do anything to me, and I 18 asked about them interacting. Do they talk? 19 And he's, like, yes, we talk. 20 You know, we're cellmates. We talk. We 21 read books. He, you know? So, it wasn't no 22 reason for me to believe that Mr. Tartaglione, 23 you know, tried to harm him because Epstein 24 didn't give me that impression. 25 MR. : And was he placed on EFTA00116368  17 1 suicide watch as a result? 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : So then, wouldn't you 4 only be placed on suicide watch if the thought 5 was that he was attempting to self-harm? 6 MS. : If that was the thought made 7 by the psychology department -- 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. : -- they would definitely 10 place you on suicide watch. Even if you said 11 it out of playing, they would place you on a 12 suicide watch. 13 MR. : So, do you know how they 14 made that determination that he would be placed 15 on suicide watch? 16 MS. : I don't know. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. : I don't know. 19 MR. : But it wasn't based upon 20 your investigation? 21 MS. : No. 22 MR. : Was it actually your 23 investigations conclusions, which actually 24 brought him off of suicide watch? 25 MS. : No. EFTA00116369  18 1 MR. : No? 2 MS. : No. I wouldn't say that. 3 Normally, they do their evaluation, the 4 psychology department, and when I guess they 5 determined that the inmates could return to the 6 general population, then they will release them 7 from the suicide watch. 8 MR. : Okay. So, the SIS 9 determination of inconclusive doesn't actually 10 play into if he's on or off of suicide watch. 11 MS. : I don't think it did. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. : I don't think it did. 14 MR. : Inmate Tartaglione. Had he 15 been at the MCC for a long time? 16 MS. : Yeah. He's been at the MCC 17 for quite some time. 18 MR. : Did he have any history of 19 violence with any of the inmates? 20 MS. : Not violence. He was more of 21 a cellphone carrier. I think I caught him with 22 a cellphone at a time. 23 MR. : Is -- 24 MS. : You know -- 25 MR. : -- is that why -- EFTA00116370  19 1 MS. ■: -- something to that effect. 2 MR. : -- he was in the SHU? 3 MS. ■: I think that's why he was in 4 SHU at that time. 5 MR. ■: Do you recall how Tartaglione 6 got chosen to be Epstein's inmate? 7 MR. : Cellmate. 8 MR. ■: Cellmate. Sorry. 9 MS. ■: Oh. 10 MR. : Sorry. 11 MS. : Actually, I don't. I don't 12 know how they put the two of them together. 13 Normally, if it's, you know, if we're vetting 14 cellmates for, say, that they would ask me, you 15 know, who do you think would be more suitable, 16 but in Epstein's case, nobody asked me. So, 17 don't know how they became cellmates. 18 MR. : You don't know if any 19 decisions were made by the higher ups, in 20 regards to him? 21 MS. : I don't know. 22 MR. : Okay. And after this 23 incident happened, was Tartaglione removed from 24 the cell? Or was inmate Epstein removed from 25 the cell? EFTA00116371  20 1 MS. : I'm not sure which one were 2 removed, or if they both was placed in 3 different cells, with different cellmates. I'm 4 not sure. 5 MR. : Well -. 6 MR. : Well, inmate Epstein was 7 actually placed on suicide watch. 8 MS. : Right. But I'm not sure if 9 Mr. Tartaglione remained in that same cell. 10 MR. : Okay. But he was in the SHU 11 after that meeting with him? 12 MS. : Yes. 13 MR. : Were there any issues with 14 him after that incident? 15 MS. : With? 16 MR. : With Tartaglione. 17 MS. : Not that I'm aware of. 18 MR. : Okay. And we asked about the 19 suicide watch. Now, being that if an inmate 20 was - an incident like this happened, let's 21 skip the fact that it was inmate Epstein -- 22 MS. : Okay. 23 MR. : -- if an inmate was found 24 with a noose, and there was a possibility of a 25 suicide, what's the normal procedure that EFTA00116372  21 1 happens? What happens to the inmate? What 2 does the MCC do with the inmate? 3 MS. : If it was an incident where 4 he was found, let's say, while I was a 5 lieutenant on, and it happened, I would remove 6 him from the cell, of course, immediately. 7 Notify psychology of what occurred. At that 8 point, I would be placing him on suicide watch, 9 with an inmate companion watching him, but I 10 would make sure, you know, we take all of his 11 clothing, everything, and he would get nothing 12 but a suicide smog. And a suicide blanket. 13 MR. : And how long does that normal 14 suicide watch last? 15 MS. : It can vary. 16 MR. : What's the shortest you've 17 ever seen somebody put om suicide watch? 18 MS. : Maybe a couple of days, but I 19 can't tell you a, you know, one or two days, or 20 three. But maybe a couple of days. 21 MR. : Based on what we've found 22 out, it looks like this attempt was on the 23 23rd, and 24th morning, he was removed from 24 suicide watch and placed in psych observation. 25 MS. : Right. EFTA00116373  22 1 MR. : Do you think that was too 2 early to remove him from suicide watch? I know 3 this is -. What is the difference between 4 psych op and suicide watch? 5 MS. : It's the same area. Psych 6 ops is, they just get their clothing back. But 7 they are still being watched. 8 MR. : It's the same thing, 9 right? 10 MS. : It's the same thing. 11 MR. : Yeah. 12 MS. : They're still being watched 13 by an inmate companion. 14 MR. : Is there any other benefit to 15 being in suicide watch - in terms of suicide 16 watch versus psych observation - any benefits 17 to being in psych ops? 18 MR. : Yeah. You have your 19 clothes. 20 MS. : You get your clothes. 21 MR. : Your clothes. 22 MS. : I mean -. 23 MR. : Was it - if it was any other 24 inmate - would they have given back his clothes 25 that fast? EFTA00116374  23 1 MS. : I don't know. That would be 2 the psychology department determination. 3 MR. : Okay. Did you - now, moving 4 forward, I think around July 30th, I believe, 5 that he was removed from psych observation, and 6 he was placed back in the SHU - do you recall 7 hearing why he was removed from psych 8 observation 9 MS. : No. 10 MR. : -- and placed back in the 11 SHU? 12 MS. : No. 13 MR. : Do you have any questions? 14 MR. : Yeah. Just to go back, 15 file back to Nicholas Tartaglione. So, I knew 16 you - when asked - you said you weren't, you 17 knew he was more of a cellmate carrier kind of 18 a guy, but do you know of any instances where 19 he actually did harm another inmate? 20 MS. : No. 21 MR. : No? 22 MS. : No. 23 MR. : Great. Thank you. 24 MR. : All right. Anything else on 25 the -? EFTA00116375  24 1 MR. : Nope. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : You can go ahead. 4 MR. : Now, let's go to August 9th. 5 Were you working on August 9th, 2019? 6 MS. : I think I was off August 9th. 7 MR. : Okay. Let me just -. Would 8 you be - Would your name be on the -? 9 MS. : On the roster? 10 MR. : On the roster. 11 MS. : Yeah. I would be on the 12 roster. I think I was off, or maybe I left 13 early August 9th. Or something. I can't 14 remember. 15 MR. : I'm going to provide you a 16 copy of August 9th -- 17 MS. : Okay. 18 MR. : -- roster. MCC SHU roster. 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. : If you can take a look at it 21 and let me know if you were on schedule. 22 MS. : No. I'm not on it. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. ■ : And who -- EFTA00116376  25 1 MR. : Oh, sorry. 2 MR. : -- where would that be 3 listed? Sorry. 4 MR. : I thought you were going 5 to -. I thought we were just talking about 6 this. This next one. Did you hear anything - 7 just going back, before we talk about the 8 suicide watch, psychological observation room, 9 we'll go - did you hear anything about anyone 10 contacting the MCC and requesting that he be 11 removed from psychological observation? 12 MS. : No. 13 MR. : No? And you didn't hear 14 that, like, for instance, his attorneys were 15 trying to get him off of psychological 16 observation, so that they could continue with 17 their attorney/client visits? 18 MS. : No. I didn't hear. 19 MR. : You never heard that? 20 MS. : No. 21 MR. : Okay. Perfect. Now, we 22 can move to the actual -. 23 MR. : So, I showed you the August 24 9th roster. You said you are not on there? 25 MS. : Can I -. Actually -- EFTA00116377  26 1 MR. Where -? 2 MS. -- I would be under the SIS 3 Lieutenant, if you -. Under the SHU 4 Lieutenant. I would be under the SIS 5 Lieutenant. 6 MR. And there is - on that 9th, 7 what does it state there? It says unassigned? 8 MS. Unassigned. 9 MR. So, no one was working that 10 day? 11 MS. No. I was the only SIS 12 Lieutenant. I'm trying to think. Yeah. 13 Nobody was in there that day. 14 MR. Can you just circle that for 15 us? 16 MS. Sure. 17 MR. : So, you were not here on 18 the 9th, is what you are saying? 19 MS. No. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. No. 22 MR. : And no one was? 23 MS. Not in the SIS Shop. 24 MR. : Oh, wow. Is that 25 abnormal, for being a Friday, without anyone EFTA00116378  27 1 being in SIS? 2 MS. : Actually, the SIS Technician, 3 her days off is Friday and Saturday. 4 MR. : Oh, wow. 5 MS. : And at the time, it was only 6 two of us working in the whole area. 7 MR. : So, there was only one 8 tech and lieutenant? 9 MS. : One tech and one lieutenant. 10 MR. : Would the SIA have been 11 on? 12 MS. : We didn't have one at the 13 time. 14 MR. : Oh, so it was literally 15 just the two of you? 16 MS. : Yes. 17 MR. : Okay. So, this wasn't, 18 then, abnormal that, on a Friday, no one was 19 working? 20 MS. : No. I normally -- 21 MR. : (Indiscernible 22 *00:19:28). 23 MS. : -- on a Friday, I would have 24 been on because she would have been off. So, I 25 took off -- EFTA00116379  28 1 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:19:36). 2 MS. : -- on Friday. I can't recall 3 why. 4 MR. : Sure. 5 MS. : But -. 6 MR. : And who was the SIS tech? 7 MS. : Her name is 8 (Phonetic Sp. *00:19:43). 9 MR. 10 MS. : Yes. 11 MR. : All right. 12 MR. : But she wasn't here? 13 MS. : No. She wasn't here. 14 MR. : And do you recall that 15 you actually - I know that the schedule says 16 that - but do you recall not being here? 17 Thinking that it was the day before. 18 MS. : Yes. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : Put this here just in case we 21 need to go back. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MR. : When did you first become 24 aware that Epstein's cellmate, inmate Reyes, 25 was removed as his cellmate? EFTA00116380  29 1 MS. : The day of the actual 2 suicide. 3 MR. : When you say actual suicide, 4 which would be -- 5 MS. : August 10th. 6 MR. : -- August 10th. 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. : Saturday, when you came in, 9 that's when you learned -? 10 MS. : When I came in. Mm-hmm. 11 MR. : Okay. Were you aware that, 12 when you came in, what were you aware of why 13 Reyes was removed from the institution? 14 MS. : After speaking to him, they 15 told me he got released from court. That's 16 what I was told. 17 MR. : Who told you that he was -? 18 MS. : Not sure. 19 MR. : Not sure. Okay. 20 MS. : I can't remember. 21 MR. : So, your understanding was, 22 Reyes went to court and he just didn't come 23 back? 24 MS. : Right. That's what I 25 understand. EFTA00116381  30 1 MR. : What's a normal procedure, 2 how do the MCC find out if an inmate is being 3 moved to court, or being transferred out? 4 MS. : From court, you're saying? 5 MR. : From court. Let's say -- 6 MS. : You're talking about court. 7 MR. : -- Reyes was -. 8 MR. : Well, no, in this case, 9 did you ever hear that Reyes actually never 10 went to court, he actually was transferred to 11 another institution? 12 MS. : No. I heard he went to 13 court. 14 MR. : So, even to this date -- 15 MS. : And was released from court. 16 MR. : -- to this date, did you 17 ever hear that, that he never went to court? 18 He actually was transferred? 19 MS. : No. I've never heard that. 20 MR. : Oh, you've never even 21 heard that? 22 MS. : No. 23 MR. : Okay. Sorry. Because 24 that's what happened. He never went to court. 25 He was transferred. EFTA00116382  31 1 MS. : I still don't know. 2 MR. : That's what 3 (Indiscernible *00:21:24). 4 MS. : That's news to me, right. I 5 have -- 6 MR. : Sure. 7 MS. : -- assumed that he went to 8 court, and, you know, maybe, I thought maybe he 9 made bail or something -- 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MS. : -- and he got released from 12 court. 13 MR. : But that's what everybody 14 was saying, that he actually went to court? 15 MS. : Yes. 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MR. : So, based on what we - our 18 investigation, I'll show you an email. This 19 email is dated -. This is from 20 from the U.S. Marshals Service. 21 MS. : Okay. 22 MR. : And it went to, it looks like 23 the employees at the R&D. 24 MS. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : And it says, transfer of EFTA00116383  32 1 inmates on August 8th, 2019, at 10:33 a.m. 2 This email was sent to them. If you take a 3 look at the title, the subject, it says, 4 "Transfer of inmates." 5 MS. : Yeah. 6 MR. : And it says, "Transfer of 7 prisoners from -- 8 MS. : I see it. 9 MR. : -- to GEO. 10 MS. : To GEO. 11 MR. : And inmate Efrain Reyes is 12 stated on this. So, he never -. It's not that 13 he went to court. He actually was transferred 14 to GEO. Do you know what the procedure is for 15 something like that? If an inmate is to be 16 transferred, how do they pull the inmate out? 17 How do they let the SHU know that the inmate 18 needs to be pulled out? 19 MS. : Normally, R&D would get in 20 touch with the SHU officers, pretty early in 21 the morning, 6:00 in the morning, to get their 22 courts, and whoever is leaving, ready. 23 MR. : Is that known as a court 24 list? 25 MS. : A court list. EFTA00116384  33 1 MR. : And that list comes over, and 2 they let the SHU officers know? 3 MS. : Yes. 4 MR. : So, they prepare them. And 5 on that - if that he was leaving - what would 6 it state on the -? Have you ever heard the 7 term, WAB? 8 MS. : Yes. 9 MR. : What does -- 10 MS. : Yes. 11 MR. : -- WAB mean to you? 12 MS. : With All Belongings. 13 MR. : And what is your 14 understanding if it states that? 15 MS. : To me, With All Belongings 16 can mean anything. You know, where is he 17 going? To Brooklyn? Is he going home? 18 MR. : But does it mean that he's 19 coming back? 20 MS. : To me, no. 21 MR. : And your understanding is, if 22 it says WAB, he's leaving for certain? 23 MS. : Right. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MS. : Right. EFTA00116385  34 1 MR. : And when, as an SIS, 2 would you get a copy of those court production 3 lists -- 4 MS. : No. 5 MR. : -- or productions? No? 6 MS. : No. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MR. : Do you know, I mean, it's on 9 the top, do you ever -. Do you recall, after 10 this investigation started, after Epstein's 11 death, ever seeing that court list for that 12 day? 13 MS. : No. I've never seen it. 14 MR. : If we wanted to obtain a copy 15 of it, do you know if there's any way we can 16 obtain a copy of that? 17 MS. : I would think it should be in 18 the Receiving and Discharge area. 19 MR. : And that's something that 20 they -- 21 MS. : The R&D. 22 MR. : -- if we asked, and based on 23 it, it said no one seems to have maintained a 24 copy of that. It looks like they've printed 25 off for the day, and then they disposed of it. EFTA00116386  35 1 MS. : I don't know. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : Was it kept, though, 4 under your investigation, for when you went in 5 on the 10th? Do you know if that was, at all, 6 part of, like, anything that you would have 7 collected? 8 MS. : Did I? I don't think I had 9 the court list. 10 MR. : No? 11 MS. : To be honest with you. I had 12 a lot of stuff. But I don't recall seeing the 13 court list. 14 MR. : So, in the stuff 15 MS. : Oh. 16 MR. : -- that you did, on the 17 10th, did you involve at all, did you look into 18 it at all, Reyes leaving and Epstein not having 19 a cellmate? 20 MS. : I think I did. I think I did 21 run his SENTRY paperwork, once I got here, to 22 see where was Reyes. What happened with Reyes. 23 I think I did run his SENTRY paperwork. 24 MR. : Okay. But you didn't -. 25 You didn't ever maintain, you know, obtain that EFTA00116387  36 1 court list, though? 2 MS. : I didn't have the court list. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MS. : I don't recall having a court 5 list. No. 6 MR. : And so, do you - if R&D 7 doesn't maintain it - do you know if there is 8 any way that we could get our hands on one of 9 these court lists? 10 MS. : I don't know. I don't know, 11 in SENTRY, because I don't deal with their 12 functions. So, I don't even know if they were 13 able to - be able to go back. 14 MR. : Yeah, no, they can't. 15 They replace it every day. 16 MS. : Right. 17 MR. : Every (Indiscernible 18 *00:25:14), so no one -- 19 MS. : See, I don't -- 20 MR. : -- it's only maintained 21 in SENTRY for 24 hours. Do you have the other 22 email? 23 MR. : Which one? 24 MR. : The one that they sent 25 everybody else of in R&D. Saying that he was EFTA00116388  37 1 being transferred. 2 MR. : Oh, no. I don't have that 3 email. I think that's separate. I didn't 4 print that one out. 5 MR. : Okay. And do you know, 6 are you familiar with how the U.S. Marshals 7 Service - at least back then, I don't know if 8 they still do this - but they would send out an 9 email the day before, which would be sent to, 10 like, all the lieutenants, and a number of 11 other people, for people who, the following 12 day, are going to court or being transferred. 13 Are you familiar with that email that's sent by 14 the Marshals Service? 15 MS. : I've probably seen it. 16 MR. : Okay. But you don't 17 really know what I'm talking about? 18 MS. : Oh, it -- 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MS. : -- I would have to see it. 21 To be honest with you. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MR. : I'm going to take a step 24 back. When Epstein was brought out of psych 25 observation, he was placed in the SHU. Do you EFTA00116389  38 1 recall that anyone from upper management, or 2 even psych, mentioning that he was required to 3 have a cellmate? 4 MS. : I didn't hear it, per se. 5 But normally, when they come off of suicide 6 watch, or a psych observation, they have to 7 have a cellmate. And psychology, usually 8 harbor on that. You know? They have to -- 9 MR. : Why is it -- 10 MS. : -- have a cellmate. 11 MR. : -- why is it that they need a 12 cellmate? 13 MS. : I don't want to guess, but I 14 would say, even though, you know, an attempt 15 possibly was made, you want to prevent 16 something happening going forward. 17 MR. : And do you recall - but you 18 said you're not sure - but do you recall that 19 there was a requirement for Epstein to have a 20 cellmate? 21 MS. : Yes. I do recall them saying 22 he had to have a cellmate. 23 MR. : And that was by word of 24 mouth? 25 MS. : By word of mouth. EFTA00116390  39 1 MR. : Do you recall who you heard 2 it from? 3 MS. : Let's see. I want to say Dr. 4 who is the psychologist. I want to say 5 Dr. said that he has to have a cellmate. 6 MR. : So, she probably came down. 7 Do you recall if she told other people in the 8 SHU, in regards to that? 9 MS. : I don't know because I 10 wouldn't have been in the SHU. 11 MR. : All right. 12 MS. : Sorry. 13 MR. : The reason I ask is, now that 14 we know that Reyes is leaving the SHU, right? 15 And he's WAB, that, and the court list comes 16 down, and our understanding is, on that court 17 list, it states WAB -- 18 MS. : Mm-hmm. 19 MR. : -- and he's brought down to 20 R&D. And he's removed from the facility. 21 Whose responsibility would it have been, at 22 that point, to make sure that Epstein had a 23 cellmate? 24 MS. : I would say the supervisor. 25 That was the SHU Lieutenant, whoever was on, EFTA00116391  40 1 because he would know that he's leaving out of 2 the SHU. 3 MR. : And this is the August 9th 4 roster again. If you take -. 5 MR. : So, SHU Lieutenant 6 was actually off -- 7 MR. : Yeah. 8 MR. : -- on the 9th, as well. 9 MS. : Okay. 10 MR. : So, if he is off, then 11 who would then become the next person -- 12 MS. : The next person -- 13 MR. : -- moving up? 14 MS. : -- would be the Operations 15 Lieutenant, should have been notified. 16 MR. : And who should have 17 notified the Operations Lieutenant? 18 MS. : Normally, the SHU staff would 19 say, you know, this guy left, and, you know, 20 Epstein doesn't have a bunkie. 21 MR. : And at what point 22 MS. : So, I'm sorry -- 23 MR. : -- should the -- 24 MS. : -- cellmate. 25 MR. : That's fine. EFTA00116392  41 1 MR. : At what point should the 2 SHU staff have notified the Operations 3 Lieutenant? 4 MS. : Immediately. 5 MR. : So, as soon as that 6 person is being -? 7 MS. : As soon as Mr. Reyes came out 8 that cell. 9 MR. : Okay. And is it one 10 person over another, within the SHU, that 11 should have told him? Or is it any one of 12 them? 13 MS. : No. 14 MR. : Or all of them? 15 MS. : I would say any one. 16 MR. : Was there a person referred 17 to as the officer in charge, in the SHU, during 18 that time? Like, one specific -- 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. : -- person. 21 MS. : They do have, yes, the SHU 22 OIC, yes. 23 MR. : I know this roster shows SHU- 24 1, SHU-2, SHU-3. But -- 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00116393  42 1 MR. : -- was there any specific 2 person, during that time period, who was 3 considered - it might not be listed as the SHU- 4 1 - but was considered to be the officer in 5 charge? 6 MS. : Yes. It would been the SHU 7 number one, which would be Officer . 8 MR. : . But what about, we 9 heard other people refer to as as, 10 though, the officer in charge. Because he's 11 been in there the longest, at that point. 12 MS. : Yes. 13 MR. : Have you ever heard that? 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : He would be the OIC? 16 MS. : He was the OIC, probably for 17 the quarter, I would say, he was. 18 MR. : And why wouldn't he be 19 listed as SHU-1, if he was the OIC for the 20 quarter? Do you know? 21 MS. : He could have been on his day 22 off. I don't know. 23 MR. : No, no. He was there. 24 And we heard that -- 25 MS. : Oh, he was? EFTA00116394  43 1 MR. : -- he actually was the 2 OIC. But he's not listed as one. 3 MS. : Oh, I don't know. I didn't 4 even see him as the number three. I don't 5 I don't know. 6 MR. : But he should have been 7 listed as one, because he was the quarter -- 8 MS. : If that was his -- 9 MR. : -- post? 10 MS. : -- if that was his post for 11 the quarter, he should have been listed as the 12 SHU number one. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MS. : Unless they did a switch, or 15 a mutual thing, or something to that effect. 16 MR. : And , at that point, 17 in 2019, had enough experience in the SHU, as 18 the SHU OIC, from your recollection? 19 MS. : Yeah. 20 MR. : So, the morning of, what 21 happened based on our investigation, is Epstein 22 and his cellmate, Reyes, were removed at the 23 same time. So, Officer came in. 24 MS. : Okay. 25 MR. : With the court order. He EFTA00116395  44 1 knew -- 2 MR. : Court list. 3 MR. : -- court list, and he knew 4 that Reyes was leaving. So, they packed up his 5 stuff in a little brown paper bag, and 6 retrieved Epstein from his cell, also, and they 7 both were transported on the elevator down 8 together. Epstein to attorney conference, and 9 Reyes out. 10 MS. : Okay. 11 MR. : And we know, in the elevator, 12 too, there was a conversation about Epstein 13 needing a cellmate. 14 MS. : Okay. 15 MR. : Now, being that 16 escorted him down, and down, he was in the 17 elevator, and was in the elevator, 18 knowing that Reyes is leaving, out of them two, 19 should either of them have made a notification 20 immediately? 21 MS. : Yes. 22 MR. : Do you think they would have 23 known that it was important that they made the 24 notification? 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00116396  45 1 MR. : Why do you think that? 2 MS. : If you had a conversation 3 about him needing a cellmate, that means - to 4 me - you know that it was important for him to 5 have one. And you knew that his - obviously - 6 Mr. Reyes was leaving WAB. And Epstein needed 7 a cellmate. So, or I feel, like, right then 8 and there, the notification should have been 9 made. Even though he's in attorney conference, 10 but his cellmate is leaving, lieutenant, we 11 need a cellmate for him. 12 MR. : Is there any reason for them 13 to believe that, even though it showed WAB, 14 that Reyes - that for them to believe that 15 Reyes would be coming back? 16 MS. : I would say no. If it says 17 WAB, that's what it is. I would assume that 18 he's not coming back. 19 MR. : Now, if, let's say they've 20 mentioned sometimes they bring inmates down to 21 R&D, and the bus doesn't come. Or they're not 22 going to court, and sometimes they come back 23 up. How long does that process normally take? 24 MS. : It happens. Hmm. I've seen 25 it be a couple of hours, before the inmates EFTA00116397  46 1 will come back up. 2 MR. : So, this is, they were 3 brought down any time between 8:00 a.m. and 4 8:30 a.m. 5 MS. : Mm-hmm. 6 MR. : So, when you say a couple 7 hours, we're talking about anywhere between 8 10:00 and 10:30 a.m.? 9 MS. : Yeah. I've seen inmates come 10 up later. You know, an hour and a half, you 11 know, he didn't -. He's not leaving on a bus. 12 Once they get everybody on the bus, they will 13 go back up to Special Housing. 14 MR. : Now, if the inmate was not 15 brought back up to the SHU, let's say by even 16 11:00 a.m., right? Because if they're 17 expecting that there is a possibility that the 18 inmate might come back up, and it doesn't 19 happen by 11:00 a.m., should they have made a 20 notification? 21 MS. : They normally would. And 22 because they - I'm going to reach and say - 23 they assumed he was leaving, because he didn't 24 come back -- 25 MR. : I should clarify that -- EFTA00116398  47 1 MS. : -- come by then. 2 MR. : -- I mean, I meant 3 notification, should or anybody in the 4 SHU, at that point, at 11:00, notified the 5 superior, hey, listen - supervisors - hey, 6 listen, Reyes is gone, and Epstein is -- 7 MR. : And not 11:00. Just 8 during their shift. At some point, if they 9 left their shift at 2:00 p.m. without making a 10 notification, should have they known by 2:00 11 p.m., at the very least, that he was not coming 12 back? 13 MS. : Absolutely. 14 MR. : Okay. So, at some point, 15 prior to 2:00 p.m., a notification should have 16 been made? 17 MS. : Yes. Yes. 18 MR. : And you mentioned that it 19 should have been to the SHU Lieutenant. 20 Lieutenant is not there. And it should 21 have been the ops lieutenant. Who was the o