EFTA00111908.pdf

1 2 3 4 DIGITALLY RECORDED 5 SWORN STATEMENT 6 OF 7 8 9 OIG CASE #: 10 2019-010614 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 19 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 20 OCTOBER 27, 2021 21 22 23 24 25 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00111908 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 4 BY: 5 BY: 6 7 8 WITNESS: 9 10 11 12 OTHER APPEARANCES: 13 NONE 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00111909 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 3 1 MR. : My name is 2 I'm a Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 3 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 4 York Field Office, and these are my 5 credentials. 6 MS. : Okay. 7 MR. : This interview with the 8 Federal Bureau of Prisons psychologist, Dr. 9 Did I get that right? 10 MS. : Yes. 11 MR. : Is being conducted as part of 12 an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office 13 of the Inspector General investigation. 14 Today's date is October 27, 2021. And the time 15 is 9:20 a.m. This interview is being conducted 16 at the OIGr New York Field Officer located or. 17 the 29th floor of One Battery Park Plaza, New 18 York, New York. Also present is: 19 MR. : DOJ/OIG Senior Special 20 Agent . And these are my 21 credentials. Oops. Here you go. 22 MR. : This interview will be 23 recorded by me, Special Agent 24 Could everyone please identify themselves for 25 the record, and spell your last name? To EFTA00111910 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 start, again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent 2 3 MR. : My name is DOJ/OIG Senior 4 Special Agent 6 MR. : Dr. please introduce 7 yourself. 8 MS. : Yeah. So, my name is Dr. 9 . I am the chief psychologist at 10 MCC New York. 11 MR. : Thank you. 12 MR. : And your last name. Can 13 you just spell that -- 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : -- for the record? 16 MS. : I'm sorry about that. 17 18 MR. : Thank you. 19 MR. : This is an official DOJ/OIG 20 investigation into the death of inmate Jeffrey 21 Epstein. And you are being asked to 22 voluntarily provide answers to our questions. 23 Will you agree to a voluntary interview with 24 the DOJ/OIG? 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00111911 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Thank you. I'm going to 2 provide you with the OIG form 11I-226/2. It 3 states the following, "United States Department 4 of Justice, Office of the Inspector General. 5 Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested 6 to Provided Information on a Voluntary Basis. 7 You are being asked to provide information as 8 part of an investigation being conducted by the 9 Office of the Inspector General. This 10 investigation is being conducted pursuant to 11 the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. 12 This investigation pertains to job 13 performance failure, and security failure. 14 This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, 15 you do not have to answer any questions. No 16 disciplinary action will be taken against you 17 if you choose not to answer any questions. Any 18 statement you furnish may be used as evidence 19 in any future criminal proceedings, or agency 20 disciplinary proceeding, or both." The waiver 21 states, "I understand the warnings and 22 assurance stated above, and I am willing to 23 make a statement and answer questions. 24 No promises or threats have been made to 25 me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has EFTA00111912 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 6 1 been used against me." Please review it. And 2 if you agree, can you please sign where it 3 says, "Employee Signature"? Also, print your 4 name right below that. 5 MR. : Please. 6 MS. : Mm-hmm. 7 MR. : Thank you. Thank you. I am 8 signing on the signature of the Office of 9 Inspector General, Special Agent. 10 MR. : Okay. And I will -- 11 MR. : Agent -. 12 MR. : -- sign as the witness, 13 and place the date, and time, and place on 14 there. On the form. 15 MR. : Thank you. Before starting 16 the interview, I would like to place you under 17 oath. 18 MS. : Yes. 19 MR. : Dr. can you please 20 raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell 21 the truth and nothing but the truth during this 22 interview? 23 MS. : Yes. 24 MR. : Thank you. Please let me 25 know if you did not understand any questions, EFTA00111913 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 7 1 and I will try to repeat it, or try to rephrase 2 it for you. What is your current home address? 3 MS. _: 4 5 MR. : Okay. And what is your date 6 of birth? 7 MS. -: 8 MR. : Actually, you showed us your 9 ID. Can you show that one more time? I just 10 want to -- 11 MS. : Yes. 12 MR. : -- Dr. has provided me 13 with the U.S. Department of Justice law 14 enforcement officer ID, and it has her picture 15 on it, and her signature. Thank you. What is 16 your current cell phone number? 17 MS. -: 18 MR. : Thank you. Do you recall 19 being interviewed by the FBI and the DIG in 20 August 2019, regarding inmate Jeffrey Epstein? 21 MS. : Yes, I do. 22 MR. : What I have here is called 23 the FBI 302. It's their report of the 24 investigation. It's a summary of your 25 statements that you made in the interview with EFTA00111914 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 8 1 them. I'm going to go -. I'm going to read it 2 out to you. Please let me know if there is any 3 discrepancies, or you feel that anything is 4 inaccurate, and we will correct it. 5 MS. : Okay. 6 MR. : On the record. Anything else 7 before we start? 8 MR. : Nope. 9 MR. : Okay. "Dr. 10 date of birth:-, was interviewed at 1 11 Saint Andrews Plaza, New York, New York, 10007. 12 U.S. Attorney's Office. Southern District of 13 New York. Present at the interview was the 14 Office of Inspector General,- Special Agent 15 ; Assistant U.S. Attorney 16 (Phonetic Sp. *00:04:54), 17 and FBI Special Agent 18 After being advised of the identity of the 19 interviewing agents, and the nature of the 20 interview, Dr. provided the following 21 statement. Dr. is the chief 22 psychologist at the Metropolitan Correctional 23 Center (MCC). Her background includes a 24 bachelor's degree in criminology, a master's in 25 mental health counseling, a master's in EFTA00111915 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 9 1 clinical counseling, and a doctorate." What is 2 the doctorate in? 3 MS. : Oh. The second master's is 4 in clinical psychology, not counseling 5 psychology. And the doctorate is in clinical 6 psychology. 7 MR. : Okay. Thank you for 8 clarifying that. "Dr. was the staff 9 psychologist at East Jersey State Prison for 10 two years. *00:05:33) And she completed a one- 11 year post-doctoral fellowship and internship 12 working at an in and out - in/outpatient mental 13 health treatment center. And she did that 14 externship at Federal Detention Center in 15 Miami, working with the battered woman's 16 program." Is that accurate? Go ahead. 17 MS. : Okay. My post-doc was at a 18 private forensic practice, forensic psychology 19 practice. The Institution for Behavioral 20 Sciences in the Law. That was my post-doctoral 21 internship. My internship was at the 22 University of Miami. Jackson Memorial Medical 23 Center. That's where I did inpatient and 24 outpatient rotations, with a minor in 25 forensics. And my externship, when I was in EFTA00111916 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 1 doctoral program, was at the Federal Detention 2 Center in Miami. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MS. : Okay. 5 MR. : Thank you. 6 MS. : Sure. 7 MR. "Dr. worked as a staff 8 psychologist at the Metropolitan Detention 9 Center, MDC Brooklyn, from 2003 to 2006." 10 MS. : Mm-hmm. 11 MR. "And as a forensic 12 psychologist from 2006 to 2008." 13 MS. : Correct. 14 MR. "Dr. has been the 15 chief psychologist at MCC for the last 11 16 years." 17 MS. : Well, now, more. Probably 18 close to 13. 19 MR. : 13. 20 MS. : More than 13, probably. 21 MR. : So, that is still your role 22 at the MCC? 23 MS. Uh-huh. Yes. And now that 24 it's closed. You know -- 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00111917 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 1 MS. -- I'm no longer the chief 2 psychologist there. But up until a day ago, 3 yes. 4 MR. : Okay. And so, what is the 5 new role with the -? 6 MS. : Well, I am awaiting a 7 position, likely in central office. 8 MR. : Okay. And what, do you know 9 what your role would be? What your title would 10 be? 11 MS. : A mental health treatment 12 coordinator. But it's going through the 13 paperwork right now. So, it hasn't, you know, 14 I haven't received official notification 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : -- as of yet. 17 MR. : Then -. 18 MR. : Will you be able to stay 19 in New York? 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : Okay. Great. 22 MS. : But I am doing my TDY work 23 right now, at Fort Dix. In New Jersey. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MS. : So, I am just seeing a lot of EFTA00111918 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 patients over there now. 2 MR. : Anything else on that? 3 MR. : Hmm-mm. 4 MR. : "Dr. oversees three 5 forensic psychologists." This is talking about 6 the time period when you were interviewed. 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. : I guess, before we do, I 9 don't think it said. When did you first start 10 working with the BOP? When was your enter on 11 duty? 12 MS. : In 2003. 13 MR. : Okay. Great. Thank you. 14 MR. : "Dr. oversees three 15 forensic psychologists, one staff psychologist, 16 a drug abuse coordinator, and a drug treatment 17 specialist. Her duties include ensuring all 18 patients are seen, and the appropriate 19 documentation is completed. She consults on 20 individual cases, as needed. She ensures the 21 forensic reports are out on time. She reviews 22 all the reports she signs off on. At this 23 time, Dr. is seeing patients, is seeing 24 more patients than she normally does, due to 25 staffing. Her typical hours are 7:00 a.m. to EFTA00111919 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 3:30 p.m. Monday to Friday." 2 MS. : Okay. 3 MR. "Dr. provided 4 information on the intake process as it relates 5 to psychological services at MCC. All inmates 6 complete the psychological services intake 7 questionnaire" - that's PSIQ - "themselves. It 8 asks for the inmates mental health history, as 9 well as any symptoms they are feeling at the 10 time. Based off the PSIQ, inmates are rated a 11 care code reading." 12 MS. : Okay. First, we interview 13 them. What we do is, we review the PSIQs once 14 they are filled out. If significant items are 15 marked, we will interview the inmate. After we 16 complete the intake screening, we will classify 17 them with a care code. And that will determine 18 how frequently the inmate will be seen. 19 MR. : Okay. I think it goes into 20 the codes itself. 21 MS. : Oh, okay. All right. 22 MR. : "Code one means there are no 23 concerns about the inmate's mental health 24 status. They have no needs and will not be 25 followed up with, unless requested to, by EFTA00111920 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 either the inmate themselves, or staff." 2 MS. : Okay. 3 MR. "Code two means there is some 4 history of mental health issues, but the inmate 5 has them under control. Psychological services 6 will follow up with these individuals monthly." 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. "Code three are more severe 9 cases, and they are seen every week by 10 psychological services, to ensure the inmate is 11 stable. If the inmate isn't stable in general 12 population, they will be moved to observation. 13 If they continue to deteriorate, they will go 14 to the hospital." 15 MS. : We will try to send them to a 16 BOP medical center. Or we will try to 17 stabilize them in the facility. We have a 18 psychiatrist who is actually, he is a central 19 office psychiatrist, but he was actually 20 located at MCC New York. So, if they started 21 to decompensate the interview, and they were 22 that acute, we would have the psychiatrist see 23 them, and potentially medicate them, and try to 24 stabilize them at our facility. If we cannot 25 do so, then we will try to do an emergency, EFTA00111921 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 1 what is called a 770, and have them designated 2 to one of our medical centers for 3 stabilization. We don't have a contract with 4 the hospital here in New York. 5 MR. : I don't know if you - what's 6 - what decompensating means? 7 MS. : Oh, that means that their 8 symptoms become more acute, their mental health 9 functioning is deteriorating to the point where 10 they display evidence of either severe mood 11 symptoms, like acute mania, or psychosis, where 12 they are actively hallucinating, or have 13 delusions. Or maybe they just stopped taking 14 care of ADLs, as well. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : And that would cause harm to 17 them. Because of their illness. 18 MR. : Thank you. 19 MS. : Okay. 20 MR. : Do you have any questions on 21 that? Okay. "Code four inmates are seen every 22 day by psychological services, and are under 23 constant psychological observation." 24 MS. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. "Dr. pointed out that EFTA00111922 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 a code one can be on suicide watch. Often 2 times, those cases involve manipulation 3 techniques used by inmates to get what they 4 want from staff. For example, if an inmate is 5 not getting along with the guard, or they want 6 a new cellmate, they will claim to be suicidal 7 to get out of their housing area. If an inmate 8 does this two or three times, they will be 9 bumped to a code two, so that a psychologist 10 will meet with them monthly. Suicide watch 11 means an inmate is eminently suicidal. If an 12 inmate is placed on suicide watch, they are 13 under constant watch by staff. They have a 14 special mattress, blanket, and smock to wear. 15 And their cell lights are on 24/7." 16 MS. : Correct. 17 MR. "Suicide observation is 18 lower classification." 19 MS. : Psychological observation. 20 MR. : Correction. "Psychological 21 observation is a lower classification. It is 22 not at all Bureau of Prisons facilities. 23 Everything is the same with suicide observation 24 inmates - psychological observation inmates, 25 except that they are allowed to have their EFTA00111923 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 1 clothing, and some materials, such as books. 2 Suicide watch can be detrimental if a person is 3 left on it for too long. So, observation is 4 used to see how an inmate is doing before 5 releasing them back to general population." 6 MS. : Correct. So, psychological 7 observation, they are observed constantly, with 8 regard to what they have, they can obtain. 9 They can have those things that you listed. 10 But we have to determine, and sometimes it 11 might be one thing at a time. Like, we might 12 give them their underwear, and see how they do 13 with that. And then, we will, you know, give 14 them a book. But it's not like once you get 15 stopped down, you get all of those items. 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MS. : Okay. It's determined by a 18 psychologist, and it is notated on their 19 logbook, what they can and cannot have. 20 MR. : Okay. "Any psychologist a: 21 jail can take an inmate off suicide watch, but 22 they do consult with Dr. on occasion. 23 Many times, the executive staff at the jail 24 meet, and inmate psychological status and 25 services are discussed." EFTA00111924 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : Yes. 2 MR. : Can you explain to us a 3 little bit more about the meeting? What 4 exactly is discussed? 5 MS. : Yes. So, we have, like, 6 Mondays, we have an opening meeting, and 7 Fridays, we have a close out meeting. And 8 Tuesdays, the days may have changed from then 9 to now. I think it used to be Thursdays, used 10 to be a SHU meeting. And so, certain members, 11 all the members of the executive staff are 12 there. And then, certain department heads 13 attend these meetings. And during the 14 meetings, they will ask me, you know, is there 15 anything for psychology. 16 And then, I will discuss the inmates that 17 are on suicide watch. And what my plans is for 18 those inmates. Or if we were discussing the 19 Special Housing Unit, I'll discuss inmates that 20 I feel need to be observed closely. Should 21 have cellmates. Or may suffer from mental 22 health problems that I feel we just need to 23 keep an eye on, or make sure they are in more 24 visible, highly visible cells. Any mental 25 health concern I have in the SHU, I would EFTA00111925 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 mention at the SHU meeting. 2 MR. : Okay. Anything else? 3 MR. : Yeah. I mean, do they 4 have input into psychology? Like, does the 5 executive staff, do they get to provide 6 recommendations, or ask, you know, can this 7 person be taken off, or this person taken off, 8 or this person taken on, or is it -? 9 MS. : Well, we make the decisions 10 as far as, we're the only ones that make the 11 decisions whether someone goes on watch, or off 12 watch. 13 MR. : Right. 14 MS. : They may, you know, not agree 15 or whatever, but that's our decision because 16 that is our profession. 17 MR. : Right. 18 MS. : But with regard to the 19 logistics in the prison, and how, where the 20 inmates are housed, and things like that. We 21 will make suggestions to executive staff. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MS. : A lot of times - and most of 24 the time - they do listen to psychology. There 25 may be times they disagree for maybe EFTA00111926 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 correctional reasons that, you know, they may 2 have their own ways of viewing where they 3 housed someone. Maybe therey will be an inmate 4 up there, or too many that they are separated 5 from, or maybe they are a gang member. I mean, 6 there may be other reasons why they can't 7 follow our recommendations. 8 And so, there might be exceptions to that 9 rule. So, now, pretty much what we do is, if, 10 like, let's say we have to house somebody alone 11 in SHU. We have to - we put whether we 12 recommend or not recommend. Now, we do that. 13 And I never recommend an inmate be single 14 celled. Ever. So, if they decide, that's on 15 them. And usually, it's because an inmate may 16 be too violent, or may be (Indizccrniblo 17 *00:15:59)sept out from all other inmates in 18 the facility because they are so, in all these 19 gangs, and they are cooperating. 20 And there is just too many bloods, let's 21 say, and there are blood, and they may have to 22 be by themselves, or they may have assaulted 23 other inmates, or officers, and they just can't 24 be celled with somebody. For whatever reason. 25 Or the U.S. Attorney's Office has said this EFTA00111927 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 1 person needs to be by themselves. We're afraid 2 for their life, at that facility. So, I'm 3 never going to recommend somebody be by 4 themselves because it's never a good idea. But 5 there might be extenuating circumstances where 6 someone needs to be housed alone, and in that 7 case, you know, we would recommend an increase 8 rounds, or, you know, keeping an eye on that 9 inmate. 10 MR. : Now, as far as I 11 understand, what you are talking about with is 12 when they come off of psychological observation 13 or suicide watch, but when they actually go in 14 and come off of both suicide watch and 15 psychological observation, do they get to 16 provide an input into that, or is that solely a 17 psychology issue? 18 MS. : Whether they come off? 19 MR. : Go in or come off. 20 MS. : No. Just a psychology. 21 MR. : Okay. So, they don't 22 have any input into that? 23 MS. : No. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MS. : I mean, they may make some EFTA00111928 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 statements, but if we don't agreeL 2 MR. : Yeah, that's your 3 MS. : -- those decisions are up to 4 us. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : Yes. 7 MR. : Thank you. 8 MR. : Just a question, as a follow 9 up. You said that sometimes you might make 10 recommendations on housing an inmate by 11 themselves, based on a threat or whatever it 12 is. So, my understanding, based on that 13 statement, is that means every inmate is housed 14 with a cellmate, unless specifically 15 recommended by psychology, that they be housed 16 by themselves? 17 MS. : Never by psychology. 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MS. : Psychology 20 MR. : That's (Indiscernible 21 *00:17:38). 22 MS. : -- is always going to 23 recommend. 24 MR. : Recommend. 25 MR. : Yeah. EFTA00111929 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 1 MS. : A cellmate. But there might 2 be custodial issues. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MS. : Which preclude them from 5 being housed with another inmate. 6 MR. : So, any inmates that has a 7 history of possibly havinge suicide watch, or 8 any, or psychological observation, psychology 9 recommends that they be - recommends that they 10 be housed with a cellmate. 11 MS. : Yes. 12 MR. : Now, psychology -- 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. : -- always they be housed 15 with a cellmate. 16 MS. : Right. 17 MR. : It's the custody may say 18 that they don't want them with a single cell. 19 MR. : Got it. 20 MR. : Correct? 21 MS. : Correct. 22 MR. : Thank you. "Meetings are 23 held on Mondays, Thursdays, and Fridays. 24 Generally present at those meetings are Dr. 25 , the warden, two associate wardens, the EFTA00111930 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 captain, supervisory attorney, duty officer, 2 and the executive assistant. Department head 3 meetings are held on Wednesdays. Dr. I. 4 (Phonetic Sp. *00:18:27)?" 5 MS. : Mm-hmm. 6 MR. "Completed the PSIQ for 7 Jeffrey Epstein on July 8, 2019. Epstein did 8 not mark anything on his PSIQ. And had it not 9 been Epstein, he would have been sent to 10 general population, and rated a care code one. 11 Dr. consulted with Dr. 12 about Epstein's risk factors, aside from his 13 psychological health, including high-profile 14 case and sex offense charges." Who is Dr. 15 16 MS. : He was the suicide prevention 17 coordinator in central office. Now, he has 18 been moved up to a higher position, but he is 19 in central office, and he called me right away, 20 when Epstein came, because of his risk factors. 21 We call those static risk factors. Those are 22 risk factors for suicidality that can't be 23 changed. So, in other words, if you come in 24 and you are a sex offender, and you are high- 25 profile, like Jeffrey Epstein was, that is EFTA00111931 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 going to take place throughout his 2 incarceration. 3 It is not like he would just come in 4 depressed; we could give him medication; he 5 could get better. Those factors would always 6 be there. So, you know, he was concerned. 7 Also, when he came to the facility, that we 8 should keep, you know, a close eye on him. 9 And, you know, he was reviewing our notes and 10 everything, from afar. So, he did call us when 11 he was placed on watch and everything, and he 12 oversaw. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. : So, he has access to your 15 notes? Does that go into some kind of a 16 database? 17 MS. : Yes. The psychology data 18 system. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MS. : I don't know if he reviewed 21 the notes, but he called -. I'm trying to 22 remember. I remember him calling me and just 23 being in touch with me. You know, is 24 everything okay? And, you know, making sure we 25 assessed certain things. EFTA00111932 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 1 MR. : Okay. So, all throughout 2 Epstein's stay, he was kind of reviewing your 3 notes, and -- 4 MS. : Uh-huh. 5 MR. : -- his status. 6 MS. : Or calling me and checking 7 in. 8 MR. : And who would have access 9 to that database, in those notes? 10 MS. : All the psychologists in the 11 department. Central office personnel would 12 have access to it. Other psychologists at 13 other institutions can access the notes 14 because, let's say he was transferred to 15 another facility, and they wanted to see his 16 notes from the BOP. They would have access. 17 MR. : Okay. And when you say 18 central office, you're talking about just 19 psychology central office, or do you mean 20 everyone that is -? 21 MS. : Yeah. 22 MR. : So, only -- 23 MS. : Psychology. 24 MR. : -- only psychology -- 25 MS. : As far as -- EFTA00111933 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : -- personnel. 2 MS. -- I know. Yes. 3 MR. : Okay. So, no one outside 4 of psychology? 5 MS. : Not that I know of. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MS. : Because I don't work up 8 there. But I wouldn't think so. 9 MR. : Great. 10 MS. : Okay. 11 MR. : You might have stated 12 already. I might have missed it. 13 MS. : Okay. 14 MR. : Did Dr. make any 15 recommendations to you? Regarding Mr. Epstein. 16 MS. : No. Just to keep a close eye 17 on, when I put him on watch. He just called 18 and just, he asked me various questions on how 19 he was doing, and everything like that. So, he 20 just wanted to make us aware that, you know, he 21 was very high-profile. I mean, obviously, we 22 knew that. But, you know, also to keep an eye 23 on him, and to keep us alert to his risk 24 factors. 25 MR. : Okay. "When Epstein returned EFTA00111934 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 1 from court that day, Dr. ordered he be 2 placed on watch status, to allow psychology to 3 make a complete - to complete a thorough 4 suicide risk assessment." Is that correct? 5 MS. : Right. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : And that was on 8 MS. : And that was precautionary. 9 MR. : -- okay. 10 MS. : Because of his risk factors. 11 I wanted him assessed. So, I remember he was 12 placed on watch, and he was waiting for me to 13 come in and do his interview. And, you know, _ 14 came into the watch area, and he was, like, are 15 you Dr. ? And he's, like, get me out of 16 here. You know? Because he didn't endorse 17 anything. He didn't say he was suicidal. He 18 had just come from court, and he was just 19 waiting to come off of watch because, you know, 20 watch is very depriving, like we said, you 21 can't have anything there. 22 Like, not even clothes. It's just You 23 know, so, for him to be put in that situation. 24 He was really unhappy about it. And then, you 25 know, I explained, it was for his safety, and EFTA00111935 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 1 precautionary, and I just wanted to make sure 2 he was, he would be celled appropriately, and 3 that he was okay. So, it wasn't that he had 4 endorsed anything, or said he was suicidal. It 5 was strictly precautionary. 6 MR. : And that was -- 7 MS. : When he first came in. 8 MR. : -- yeah. That was July 9 8th, 2019? 10 MS. : Yes. 11 MR. : Just -- 12 MS. : Yes. 13 MR. : -- for the record. Okay. 14 MR. "Dr. completed the 15 suicide risk assessment the next day. Epstein 16 was angry he was placed on observation, but he 17 continued to report no history of -", suicide- 18 aly? 19 MS. : Suicidality. Yeah. Yeah. 20 MR. Suicidality. "No substance 21 abuse. No major medical concerns. And no 22 overt risk factors. Epstein was polite, but 23 annoyed with Dr. a n 24 MS. : True. 25 MR. : "Epstein was kept in EFTA00111936 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 observation, pending a suitable housing 2 placement, given his risk factors of being an 3 alleged sex offender. High-profile, and having 4 one living brother relative. She quoted 5 Epstein as saying, `Being alive is fun.' Dr. 6 believed it was a genuine statement." 7 Is that accurate? 8 MS. : A what? 9 MR. : A genuine -- 10 MR. : Genuine. 11 MR. : -- genuine statement. 12 MS. : Yeah. 13 MR. : Okay. "Dr. provided 14 the interviewing agents with a copy of the 15 suicide risk assessment, which was placed into 16 this case as reference three. On July 10th, 17 2019, Dr. met with Epstein in 18 observation. Epstein was still in observation, 19 due to housing concerns. He continued to be 20 psychologically stable at that time. Epstein 21 was aware, even if he got bail, he would be at 22 MCC for several more weeks." That statement, 23 "Epstein was aware even if he got bail." Was 24 your understanding that he was going to get 25 bail? EFTA00111937 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 1 MS. : If I recall, I remember he 2 was hopeful. Now, I don't have my notes in 3 front of me, so I don't want to swear to what 4 was in each note -- 5 MR. : Yeah. 6 MS. : -- because when I don't have 7 them in front of me, but from my recollection, 8 yes, he was hopeful that, you know, he would be 9 able to get out of jail. 10 MR. : Okay. So, based on 11 MS. : At that time. 12 MR. : -- your conversations with 13 him, he was expecting - hopeful - to get bail - 14 15 MS. : Yes. 16 MR. -- from being -. Okay. 17 "Epstein made several demands and voiced many 18 complaints to Dr. , which she passed onto 19 executive staff." What kind of demands? 20 MS. : I remember a lot of, like, 21 even his laxative, like, he wanted Colace 22 (Phonetic Sp. *00:24:50), and he didn't like 23 the laxative he was getting. And, you know, he 24 just made a lot of demands. I would have to 25 refer to my notes, but it was just -- EFTA00111938 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MS. : -- you know, individual, his 3 individual needs. Things that he wanted. 4 MR. : What about -- 5 MS. : You know? 6 MR. complaints? It mentions 7 that he voiced many complaints, also. 8 MS. : Maybe that he was on watch. 9 I mean, I remember he didn't want to be on 10 there to begin with. Things about the jail, in 11 and of itself, I guess he wanted, I remember 12 him wanting to go to the Cadre unit (Phonetic 13 Sp. *00:25:23), because at that time, we had 14 Paul Manafort (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:25) there. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : And he wanted to be - he knew 17 those people were in the prison - so, he wanted 18 to go be placed on a Cadre unit, which are 19 inmates that have already been sentenced, and 20 are serving small amounts of time. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MS. : At which we couldn't put him 23 in, because he was pre-trial. But he wanted to 24 be with, like, other inmates he knew that were 25 there, that were more high-profile. EFTA00111939 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MS. : I remember him complaining 3 about that. 4 MR. : Anything else on that? 5 MR. : We have all of your notes 6 and the notes, you know, from psychology. 7 Would you want those for while we are 8 discussing, or do you think they are not 9 needed? 10 MS. : Well, if there is anything I 11 think -- 12 MR. : Okay. Just let us -- 13 MS. : -- you know, I have a pretty 14 good -- 15 MR. : -- know if -- 16 MS. : -- memory. 17 MR. : -- sure. 18 MS. : But I mean, if you are going 19 to ask me on this exact date, did he say this 20 exact -- 21 MR. : Absolutely. 22 MS. : -- then I would need my 23 notes. 24 MR. : No. I just -- 25 MS. : Yeah. EFTA00111940 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : I just -- 2 MS. : Yeah. 3 MR. : -- wanted to know if you 4 would actually prefer them in front of you. 5 So, while we are talking, you can reference 6 them. Because if you can, we could easily get 7 them for you. 8 MS. : Okay. I will see how the 9 questions -- 10 MR. : Sure. 11 MS. : -- proceed. And if I am 12 uncomfortable with one, I will let you know. 13 Yeah. 14 MR. : Absolutely. 15 MS. : Okay. 16 MR. "Epstein's cellmate for the 17 Special Housing Unit was decided by the warden 18 and the associate warden. Dr. was not 19 included on that decision. Her thought was 20 decided upon cellmate, Tartaglione, had a -." 21 Sorry. I don't know if that wording is wrong. 22 "Her thought was decided upon cellmate, 23 Tartaglione, had a lot to lose -." 24 MR. : Just before we go on. 25 So, you said that it was decided by the warden EFTA00111941 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 1 and the associate warden. Do you know what the 2 names are of those individuals? Like, 3 would be the warden. 4 MS. was the warden. 5 MR. : Do you know who the 6 associate warden was? 7 MS. : I don't know who, but I know 8 he meets with the associate wardens. I don't 9 know which one. I know - was there 10 during that period of time. And I'm trying to 11 remember the other one. 12 MR. : Was it ? 13 MS. : Yes. Yes. No. took -. 14 Yeah. 15 MR. : I don't know if was 16 17 MS. : 18 MR. : -- there that early. 19 MS. : came after. 20 MR. Yeah. I think it was a 21 different AW. 22 MR. : Who was before ? 23 That's crazy. 24 MR. : But regardless, they were 25 the ones -- EFTA00111942 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : Yeah. They -- 2 MR. okay. 3 MS. : -- they make the housing 4 decisions. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : You know, and who they felt 7 he should be placed with. 8 MR. : And then, let me just 9 read that sentence for you -- 10 MR. : Yeah. 11 MR. : -- so that -. It says, 12 "Her thought was the decided upon cellmate, 13 Tartaglione, had a lot to lose given his 14 history and charges, which made him a low-risk