EFTA01077425.pdf

1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 15th JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA Complex Litigation, Fla.R.Civ. Pro.1201 Case No. 50 2009CA040800XXXXMBAG JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Plaintiff, vs. SCOTT ROTHSTEIN, individually, BRADLEY J. EDWARDS, individually, and L.M. individually, Defendants. The deposition of MICHAEL LEGAMARO, called for examination, taken pursuant to the applicable Rules pertaining to the taking of depositions, taken before LORRAINE DUNN, a Notary Public within and for the County of Cook, State of Illinois, and a Certified Shorthand Reporter of said state, CSR No. 84-2024, at Suite 500, 77 West Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077425  2 1 Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois, on the 11th day 2 of March, A.D. 2011, at 12:05 p.m. 3 APPEARANCES: 4 5 FOWLER WHITE BURNETT, P.A., 6 (100 Southeast 3rd Avenue, 21st Floor, 7 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33394, 8 IMMIIMMINIMB), by: MS. SUSAN H. APRILL, 10 11 appeared on behalf of the Plaintiff; 12 13 SEARCY, DENNEY, SCAROLA, BARNHART & 14 (2139 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, 15 West Palm Beach, Florida 33409, 16 ), by: 17 MR. PATRICK E. QUINLAN, 18 19 20 appeared via video teleconference on 21 behalf of Defendant Bradley J. Edwards. 22 23 24 25 Madison Deposition Services•70 a Madison 14th FL.Chicago IL 60602oe:312-379-07o2 EFTA01077426  3 1 APPEARANCES: (Continued) 2 3 CONRAD & SCHERER, 4 (633 South Federal Highway, 5 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33301, 6 ), by: 7 MR. ALBERT L. FREVOLA, JR., 8 9 appeared on behalf of Clockwork Capital 10 Advisers, DSquared Holdings, 11 D3 Capital Club, Razorback Funding. 12 13 MORGAN, LEWIS & BOCKIUS, LLP, 14 (77 West Wacker Drive, Suite 500, 15 Chicago, Illinois, 60601, 16 ), by: 17 MS. NINA G. STILLMAN, 18 19 MR. KEVIN DREHER, 20 21 appeared on behalf of the deponent. 22 23 REPORTED BY: LORRAINE DUNN, CSR No. 84-2024. 24 25 Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077427  4 1 MS. APRILL: Whenever you're ready, we will 2 begin. 3 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly 4 sworn.) 5 MICHAEL LEGAMARO, 6 called as a witness herein, having been first duly 7 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 8 EXAMINATION 9 BY MS. APRILL: 10 Q. Sir, what is your name? 11 A. Michael Legamaro, L-e-g-a-m-a-r-o. 12 MS. STILLMAN: I just want to say, for the 13 record, we discussed this before we went on the 14 record. Under Illinois law, any video deposition 15 has to have a special kind of subpoena or notice. 16 We were requested yesterday afternoon 17 by Ms. Aprill's law firm, if I recall, that 18 defense counsel asked to participate by video. We 19 were able to accommodate them. We have been 20 assured by defense counsel who is participating by 21 video that no taping is being done; that this is 22 strictly a live transmission. 23 Is that your confirmation? 24 MR. QUINLAN: Yes. This isn't for 25 videotaping purposes. It's just the chance to be Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th et-chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077428  5 1 able to put faces to the voices I hear during the 2 depo. I appreciate everybody's cooperation in 3 setting it up. 4 MS. STILLMAN: Fine. Then we can proceed. 5 BY MS. APRILL: 6 Q. Mr. Legamaro, my name is Susan Aprill. 7 We met just briefly before we got on the record. 8 I represent an individual named Jeffrey Epstein in 9 connection with a pending lawsuit in the 15th 10 Judicial Circuit for Palm Beach Florida. That 11 lawsuit is against Scott Rothstein and Bradley 12 Edwards. 13 MS. APRILL: Could you mark this for 14 identification, please. 15 (WHEREUPON, said document was 16 marked Legamaro Deposition 17 Exhibit No. 1, for 18 identification, as of 3/11/11.) 19 MS. STILLMAN: Excuse me. You said Scott 20 Rothstein. The subpoena I have says Scott 21 Reynolds. 22 MS. APRILL: Scott Reynolds? Can I see what 23 you're looking at? It also says Lake County, 24 Illinois, where we're not. 25 MS. STILLMAN: Right. We decided not to make Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077429  6 1 an issue. 2 MS. APRILL: All right. Well, that's 3 interesting. I caught the Lake County. Thank 4 you. 5 BY MS. APRILL: 6 Q. Well, let me ask you this: Have you 7 ever seen, sir, a notice, or more specifically, a a renotice of taking your deposition for today? 9 A. I don't know what I've seen. I have 10 seen something very similar to what you're 11 holding. 12 Q. I am going to ask the court reporter to 13 mark this for clarify. 14 MS. STILLMAN: The witness has seen the 15 original subpoena. I've never seen the renotice, 16 either. 17 MS. APRILL: May I see what you have there 18 and make sure at least the attachments are the 19 same, because that's what I'm concerned about. 20 Schedule A is really what I wanted. 21 BY MS. APRILL: 22 Q. I am going to show you what our 23 reporter has marked as Exhibit 1 for today's 24 deposition and ask you if you have seen it or any 25 part of it since there may be some portion you Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602.P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077430  7 1 haven't seen? 2 (WHEREUPON, the document was 3 tendered to the witness.) 4 BY THE WITNESS: 5 A. I don't know that I've seen all of it 6 but I have seen part of it. 7 BY MS. APRILL: 8 Q. At the very end, I think it is the last 9 two, three pages, there is Exhibit A that is 10 titled. 11 Have you seen that before, Exhibit A? 12 A. Yes, I have. 13 Q. I understand that you are represented 14 by counsel today. It is never my intention at all 15 to ask you to disclose anything that is 16 privileged. If you feel I am asking it, certainly 17 I will try to rephrase it. 18 Did you ask anyone to locate any 19 documents that you believe are responsive to 20 Schedule A? 21 MS. STILLMAN: I'm going to object to what he 22 asked. If you want to ask him what he did to 23 search for documents, that's fine. 24 BY MS. APRILL: 25 Q. Okay. Did you conduct a search or Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077431  8 1 cause a search to be conducted for any documents 2 you believe to be responsive? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did you identify certain responsive 5 documents? 6 A. Actually, I did not, but I turned my 7 files over, all of my files over to the firm. 8 Q. Have you seen the documents that were 9 provided to me as a result of that? 10 A. I'm not certain what you were provided. 11 I have seen a set of documents that I was told 12 were provided to you. 13 Q. Is it correct for me to understand that 14 there are documents in the file that you searched 15 or caused to be searched that were not produced to 36 me today? 17 MS. STILLMAN: Relating to what, counsel? 18 BY MS. APRILL: 19 Q. Let me ask you this: Do you have -- 20 the documents that were produced to me, did they 21 come out of a file that was designated by a matter 22 name or number? 23 MS. STILLMAN: Counsel, you're assuming that 24 they came out of a hard copy search as opposed to 25 an electronic search. Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077432  9 1 MS. APRILL: Actually, I'm not. I'm asking 2 the question. I understand that people keep 3 things in folders. 4 MS. STILLMAN: Can I hear the question back, 5 then? 6 (WHEREUPON, the record was read 7 by the reporter as requested.) 8 MS. STILLMAN: If you know. 9 BY THE WITNESS: 10 A. I don't know. 11 BY MS. APRILL: 12 Q. Have you ever given a deposition 13 before? 14 A. Yes. 13 Q. More than once? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Have you ever given any deposition in 18 connection with any case where one of the parties 19 is Scott Rothstein? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Do you know Scott Rothstein? 22 A. I have met him. 23 Q. Since you've been deposed before, I 2.4 will not belabor the point, but clearly if I ask 25 you a question and you don't know the answer, I'm Madison Deposition Setvices.70 W Madison 14th m.chicago IL 60602.P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077433  sure you will tell me you don't know, right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And, likewise, if I ask a question that 4 doesn't make sense to you or needs to be restated, 5 you'll ask me, right? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Thank you. When you saw Exhibit A, 8 which is part of Exhibit 1 that has been marked 9 which is in front of you today, did you recognize 10 a particular matter by title that you had worked 11 on in the firm that you felt would have documents 12 that might be responsive? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Could you tell me what that matter 15 how you designate the matter so that when I'm 36 asking you questions, it will be easier? 17 A. Well, we had a matter involving a 18 client. 19 MS. STILLMAN: The name of the client -- you 20 can give the name of the client. 21 BY THE WITNESS: 22 A. So the name of the client would be 23 Ritchie Capital or Thane Ritchie, individually. 24 MS. APRILL: That makes it a lot easier for 25 me to focus my questions. Madison Deposition Services•10 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077434  11 1 BY MS. APRILL: 2 Q. Do you currently represent Thane 3 Ritchie or Ritchie Capital? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. In 2009, did you represent either or 6 both of them? 7 A. Yes. a Q. Which? 9 A. Both. 10 Q. Did you represent both Ritchie Capital 11 and Thane Ritchie, which I am going to refer to 12 just as Ritchie, if that is okay with you? 13 A. Fine. 14 Q. In connection with an investigation of 15 an investment that was being offered by Scott 16 Rothstein? 17 MS. STILLMAN: Wait a minute. At the 18 investigation? I'm going to object as vague. 19 BY MS. APRILL: 20 Q. Did you represent them -- well, did you 21 represent them -- strike that. Let's back up. 22 You said you met Scott Rothstein? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. When did you meet Scott Rothstein? 25 A. Late September, early October 2009. Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th PL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077435  12 1 Q. Where did you meet him? 2 A. In his office. 3 Q. Before you met him in his office, had L you ever spoken to him on the phone? 5 A. No. 6 Q. What caused you to meet with him in his 7 office at that time? 8 A. I traveled to Florida with a client on 9 other business and we collectively went to meet 10 Scott Rothstein. 11 Q. Was that client Thane Ritchie? :2 A. Yes. 13 Q. Were you there for a number of days? 14 A. No. 15 Q. One day? 16 A. We arrived midnight one night and we 17 left by 10 p.m. the next day. 18 Q. What was the purpose of you going to 19 Scott Rothstein's office? 20 MS. STILLMAN: Objection. You can ask him 2.1 what he did there in the presence of Scott 22 Rothstein, but the purpose would be privileged. 23 MS. APRILL: All right. 24 BY MS. APRILL: 25 Q. Let me ask you this: Were you invited Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077436  13 1 by anyone other than your client to be present at 2 Mr. Rothstein's office? 3 A. Well, not that I'm aware of, no. 4 Q. All of this is, of course, if you know 5 and if you remember. 6 A. Not that I recall, right. .7 Q. When you went to Scott Rothstein's 8 office, was there anyone else present there? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Do you remember who? 11 A. Well, John Kurmath, who is the 12 president of Ritchie Capital and A.J. Discala. 13 Q. Did you know A.J. Discala prior it is 14 this that day? 15 A. I had spoken to A.J. Discala a few 16 years ago, something completely unrelated, and I 17 met him at breakfast that morning. 16 Q. Had you ever represented A.J. Discala? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Were you representing him at the time 21 you had breakfast with him? 22 A. No, not A.J. personally. 23 Q• Who else was at the breakfast? 24 A. No one. 25 Q. Was your client with you as well? Madison Deposition Services.70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602.2:312-379-0702 EFTA01077437  14 1 A. Yes, Thane Ritchie, A.J. Discala. 2 Q. And what was the subject matter? 3 MS. STILLMAN: Of breakfast? 4 MS. APRILL: Yes. 5 MS. STILLMAN: To the extent that there 6 was -- A.J., though, he said personally, but A.J. 7 was a principal of a client. So, to the extent 8 that there was any discussion that related to the 9 client of which A.J. was a principal, we're going 10 to assert the privilege. 11 BY MS. APRILL: 12 Q. Let me understand something. Is it 13 your position that the entire conversation was 14 privileged? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. So you didn't talk about the ball 17 scores or any nonlegal matters? 18 A. No, I'm sure we did. 19 Q• Can you tell me anything you believq is 20 not privileged that you talked about that morning? 21 A. No, not that I recall. 22 Q. So you're saying that although you did 23 not represent A.J. Discala personally at that 24 time -- 25 A. Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th PL•Chicago IL 60602.P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077438  15 Q. -- you represented an entity in which 2 he was a principal? 3 A. Yes, in fact -- yes. 4 Q. Do you know the name of that? 5 A. Clockwork Capital Advisors. 6 MS. STILLMAN: Clockwork Capital Advisors, 7 LLC, actually. 8 BY MS. APRILL: 9 Q. Had you represented Clockwork Capital 10 Advisors prior to that breakfast meeting prior to 11 that day? 12 A. Quite possibly, yes. 13 Q. Did you have anything to do with 14 forming that entity? A. No. 16 Q. You then went after breakfast to 17 Mr. Rothstein's office? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Did you go to the other business 20 meeting you had? 21 A. We did, Thane and I did. 22 Q. Do you know what time of day, 23 approximately, you went to Scott Rothstein's 24 office? 25 A. We let's put it this way: We arrived, Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077439  16 1 we were in West Palm Beach, so we had to drive 2 from West Palm Beach after lunch to 3 Ft. Lauderdale, so we arrived at 2:30 or so. 4 Q. So you went to Rothstein's office. Can 5 you tell me what Mr. Rothstein did when you 6 arrived? 7 A. He greeted us and brought us into his 8 office. 9 Q. And was anyone else there from his 10 firm? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Did you have a -- did anyone else join 13 you during the meeting other than people you've 14 already mentioned? 15 A. No. 16 Q. So it was just four of you? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. What occurred during the meeting? 19 A. Well, Rothstein explained what he was 20 doing in terms of structured settlements. We 21 reviewed examples of some of those structured 22 settlement cases and we left, I suppose, in that 23 order. 24 Q. When you say he explained what he was 25 doing running structured settlements, had you seen Madison Deposition Services•70 VI Madison 11th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077440  17 1 any documentation about what he was doing before 2 arriving that day? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Had you ever heard of Scott Rothstein other than in the context of a privileged 6 conversation? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Did you do anything to check him out as 9 a person before going to the meeting? 10 A. Not that I recall. 11 Q. Did you know what he did for a living? 22 A. Only by the assumption that he was -- 13 his name was on the door of a law firm, so I 14 presumed he was a lawyer. 15 Q. Did you know anything about the nature 16 of his practice? 17 A. Before : arrived or when I arrived? 18 Q. Before you arrived. 19 A. No. 20 Q. When you arrived, did he explain to you 21 anything about his practice before talking about 22 these structured settlements? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What did he say, as best you can 25 recall? Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077441  18 1 A. That he was a plaintiff's lawyer and 2 predominantly they were doing -- well, the firm 3 itself was a full-service firm, but his particular 4 background was in litigation, plaintiff's 5 litigation, predominantly. 6 Q. Did he mention that he specialized in 7 any type of litigation like employment law or anything? 9 A. I think he did, employment, labor, yes, 10 representing plaintiffs in labor disputes. 11 Q• Have you ever done that in your own 12 career? 13 No. 14 Q. When you were at his office, you said 15 you reviewed some I think you said some examples? 16 17 Q. Can you tell me how it came about? 18 Did Scott immediately show you some documents or 19 how did it occur? 20 A. He did not immediately show some 21 documents. We talked for 30 minutes, maybe 22 longer, about his structured settlement business 23 if we call it that, and he invited us to take a 24 look at case files or what I call case files, I 25 suppose. He left the room while Thane and I Madison Deposition Services.70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602.P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077442  19 1 examined those case files and then he came back 2 and we talked some more. 3 Q. Now, do you know the exact date that 4 this occurred? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Do you know what day of the week it 7 occurred on? 8 A. Not that I recall. 9 Q. Was it a week day, though? 10 A. Absolutely. 11 Q. Do you have any calendars or records 12 that would tell you the exact date if you were to 13 look at them? 14 A. Presumably, yes. Q. Are those personal files or firm files? 16 A. Firm files, billing matters, billing 17 files. 18 Q. Was this a billable event, this 19 meeting? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. As best you can recall, what did you 22 look at in these case files? What was the 23 character of the papers? 24 A. They were pleadings predominantly that 25 I can recall, complaint, maybe motions, motions Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077443  20 1 practice, that sort of thing. I'm not quite sure 2 exactly. I don't recall exactly what they were 3 but they were pleading documents. They were 4 pleadings. They could be things like motions for 5 summary judgment, that sort of thing, complaint, 6 answer, things that I would expect to find in a 7 piece of litigation. 8 Q. Was this file that you -- you looked at 9 files for multiple plaintiffs? 10 A. Not that I recall. 11 Q. Did you look at these files just for 12 one plaintiff, then? 13 A. That's the only one I can recall, yes. 14 Q. Do you remember the name of the 15 plaintiff or how the plaintiff was designated if 16 not by full name? 17 A. There was no name listed for plaintiff. 18 Indeed your question was accurate in that the 19 plaintiff was designated by name as LM which 20 sticks in my head. 21 Q. And were you -- during the time that 22 Scott was talking to you about the settlement, did 23 he talk to you about what the LM case was about 24 before he showed it to you? 25 A. I don't recall. Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chlcago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077444  21 1 Q. Did he tell you who the defendant was? 2 A. In that case, again, I don't recall. 3 Just to be clear, he did not -- we could have 4 chosen any case file. Our conversations were 5 broader and I picked the case file to be the LM. 6 He did not show us. There were boxes. He said 7 those are case files, take a look, and I picked up 8 LM. 9 Q. Now, the room that you were in when you 10 looked at these files, the LM file, was it a 11 conference room such as the one we're in? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Can you tell me what kind of a space 14 you were in? 15 A. Scott Rothstein's office I understood 16 it to be. 17 Q. In that office, was there a seating 18 area with a sectional sofa and some other 19 accessory furniture? 20 A. Possibly. 21 Q. Did you sit on a sofa or at a 22 table when you were -- 23 A. Sat at a table 24 Q. So was there a conference table in 25 there? Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077445  22 3. A. Yes. 2 Q. Was it as large as the one we're 3 sitting at today, which I would say is eight or 4 nine feet? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Were the boxes that he invited you to 7 examine, if that's the right way to say it, were B they on the table? 9 A. No. 10 Q. How were they arranged in the room? 11 A. They were in the corner. 12 Q. Were they stacked up? 13 A. One, two high, maybe. There were 14 approximately, let's say, approximately four 15 boxes. 16 Q. Again, I jumped to the conclusion that 17 they were in boxes. These are like the typical 18 banker boxes that you use in a firm? 19 A. Exactly. 2C Q. So you think there were about four 21 boxes in the corner two high? 22 A. Tops were open, that I recall. 23 Q. Was there any marking on the outside of 24 the box, a label or a number? 25 A. Not that I recall. Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077446  23 1 Q. Did you move them from the corner to 2 the table so that you could examine them? 3 A. Not that I recall. 4 Q. Did the others who were with you also 5 look at the contents? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. I'm trying to get a picture of the 8 scene, forgive me. 9 Can you describe to me were you each 10 looking at separate parts of the file or were you 11 kind of looking all together at any given pages? 12 A. Well, there was really only two of us 13 looking, Thane Ritchie and myself personally. 14 Q. Mr. Discala was not there? 15 A. No, he left. Just to clarify, again, 16 we talked to Scott. He invited us, Thane and I, 17 to take -- and presumably John Kurmath who I 18 believe left on the phone, he departed. Kermath 19 is, K-e-r-m-a-t-h. I think he was dealing with ^fl /, other business and he left the room. A.J. Discala 21 left the room. Scott Rothstein left the room. 22 Thane and I sat there and reviewed files for a few 23 minutes and then Scott came back. 24 Q. When you say a few minutes, about how 25 much time did you spend -- Madison Deposition Services.70 W Madison 14th FL.Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077447  24 1 A. Fifteen, twenty minutes. 2 Q. Do you recall seeing anything in those 3 files that contained -- well, you said you saw 4 court papers, pleadings? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Was the plaintiff was the 7 defendant's name on there? I'm not asking you if 8 you remember it. I mean was it blocked out or was 9 it visible? 10 A. The defendant's name was visible. 11 There were two defendants, I recall. 12 Q. Do you remember, sitting here today, 13 who they were? 14 A. I remember one was named Jeffrey 15 Epstein and one was a woman. 16 Q. Did you know who Jeffrey Epstein was 17 prior to looking at those papers? 18 A. Not really, no. I don't recall. 19 Q. Well, did Mr. Rothstein describe 2C anything about Jeff Epstein before you actually 21 looked at papers? 22 A. I don't remember the order of that, so 23 I can't say with clarity. 24 Q. Did you make any notes about what you 25 saw in the files? Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th PL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077448  25 A. I wrote down the case number. That's 2 the only note I recall taking, the Florida case 3 file number. 4 Q. Do you recall, you said about 5 30 minutes you did not. 6 Do you know how long you spent actually 7 perusing files? 8 A. Fifteen, twenty minutes. 9 Q. So I understand it, Scott left several 10 boxes, you did not look at each of the files in 11 the boxes? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. You made a random selection? 14 A. I believe I took whatever was on the 15 top. 16 Q. Were they in binders, the files that 17 you looked at? 18 A. They were binders in the sense that 19 they had two-hole punches in there. 20 Q. At the top? 21 A. Precisely. 22 Q. Did Mr. Ritchie, if you know, look at 23 some of the other files that you didn't look at? 24 A. Yes, he did look at other files I did 25 not look at. Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th Fi.•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077449  26 1 Q. Then I presume you discussed them and 2 that is a privileged conversation? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. I think you can tell me this. Did you 5 talk about them before Mr. Rothstein came back in 6 the room? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. You said you wrote down a case number? 9 A. Yes. Q. Did you make any phone calls when you were in the room to someone at your firm, for example, to look up the case? Not that I recall. 14 Q. Did you have a laptop or some sort of 15 device with you to make any notes or go on the 16 internet to look at the case file? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Was this, if you remember, a federal or 19 a state court case? 20 A. It was a state court case. 21 Q. Do you remember that just because you 22 remember it or because Scott had described the 23 case being in state court? 24 A. I recall writing down the case number. 25 It was not a federal case number. Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th PL•Chicago IL 60602.P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077450  27 1 Q• Did you subsequently yourself or ask a 2 colleague to look at the complete file in the Palm 3 Beach court? 4 A. On-line? 5 Q. Any way. 6 A. Yes. I don't know exactly what I 7 asked, but I asked somebody to examine, make 8 certain the case was, in fact, filed -- 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. -- once I had returned to Chicago. 11 Q. Now, I take it that this case that you 12 examined was at that time not the subject of one 13 of the settlements that was being discussed, is 14 that right? 15 A. It was an active case file, so I don't 16 know that it was or it wasn't. 17 Q. Did Scott Rothstein show you or make 18 available for your inspection that day any other 19 documents that concerned cases that were presuit, 20 a dispute existed but he had not yet filed a case? 21 A. Not that I recall. 22 Q. Did he talk to you about having 23 settlements in process for cases that had not yet 24 been filed? 25 A. He may have I recall him mentioning -379-0702 Madison Deposition sorvices•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312 EFTA01077451  28 1 that he had previously done such cases. I don't 2 know that he discussed any future cases that he 3 would have filed; in other words, I want to say 4 that his business plan as related to structured settlements in part involved in some cases -- not 6 necessarily the ones that were active -- but in 7 some cases were presuit settlements. 8 Q. Is it accurate to say that what Scott 9 Rothstein was talking to you and the others who 10 were in that room with you about was an investment 11 in a single settlement? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Can you tell me what the product was 14 that you were investing in? Was it a package of 15 settlements? 16 A. No. It was more a prospective proposal 17 about future settlements and Scott Rothstein's 18 ability to deliver multiple settlements for future 19 use. 20 Q. What was the purpose then for him 21 showing you files? 22 A. It was giving us examples of cases in 23 which he had been involved. 2.4 Q. I see. 25 A. Or was currently then involved. Madison Deposition Services•70 M Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077452  29 1 Q. So you didn't have -- is it correct to 2 say that you did not believe that any investment 3 that might be made was going to be in the LM 4 settlement? 5 A. At the time, that's right, yes, that's 6 correct to say. 7 Q. After you looked at the files that 8 Mr. Rothstein made available, did you have any 9 further conversations with him? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Can you tell me what he said and what 12 was said back? 13 A. As you may recall, I testified that he 24 came back to the room. We then presumably -- not 15 just presumably, we talked about the case file 16 that we had in front of me and in front of Thane, 11 which was if I recall similar to if not -- I don't 18 recall what Thane's case was exactly -- then we 19 discussed other cases that Rothstein either had 20 active cases or would in the future start cases. 21 Q. Do you remember anything about any of 22 that? 23 A. Well, I remember the latter case, for 24 example, was a key tab case involving a government ^ r J contract with the navy or the army or something Madison Deposition Services.70 W Madison 14th FL.Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077453  30 1 and maybe orange juice or something like this 2 where supposedly a supplier to the government was 3 cheating the government, basically. 4 Q. So, at that meeting, were your clients 5 being asked to invest a certain amount of money? 6 A. No. Q. Would you consider this a preliminary 8 meeting to -- was this the first time -- strike 9 that. 10 How long did you spend at his office, 11 Rothstein's? 12 A. To include waiting in the waiting room 13 or the front door? 14 Q. Well, no, just with him. 15 A. In his office, oh, an hour. 16 Q. The boxes you said were already in the 17 room when you came into the room? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. You don't remember anyone carrying them 20 in your presence? 21 A. No. I remember that no one did carry 22 them in. They were in the room when I was there, 23 to make that clear. 24 Q. Was there anyone who removed those 25 boxes or any part of the files in your presence? Madison Deposition Services•70 M Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077454  31 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did the meeting conclude with any 3 agreement to confer further with Rothstein? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What happened? 6 A. We agreed to have further conversations 7 about Rothstein's business of structured 8 settlements and we -- that was pretty much the end 9 of it. We said good-bye and left. 10 Q. Did you confer further with him? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Can you tell me when that occurred with 13 respect to this meeting? Was it the next day or 14 the next month? A. In fact, it was probably within an hour 16 because we were -- we went downstairs to a 17 restaurant, bar, if you will, and had a drink. We 18 were waiting for somebody to do something. It may 19 have been John Kurmath to return to us, I don't 20 recall exactly. And Rothstein showed up. 21 Q. In the restaurant? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you know if this is the restaurant 24 in his office building that he owned? 25 A. Yes. It is called Bova. Madison Deposition services•70 N Madison 14th FL.Chicago IL 60602.2:312-379-0702 EFTA01077455  32 1 Q. Did he tell you he owned it? 2 A. He did. 3 Q. I suppose he picked up the drink tab? 4 I'm kidding. 5 A. I don't recall who did. 6 Q. So he joined you at your table or booth? A. Yes, or didn't -- join us isn't the 9 right word. He showed up. I don't know that he 10 sat. 11 Q. All right. 12 A. He said hello, good-bye and it was 13 chitchat. 14 Q. Was he with anyone else that was in the 15 chitchat? 16 A. Not that I recall. 17 Q. After that, when is the next time that 18 you had any communication with Scott Rothstein? 19 A. Within the -- the times are a little 20 bit -- so within two weeks or so, I would say, 21 maybe three -- actually maybe not even that long. 22 I don't recall exactly when the meeting was. 23 In fairly short order, within a 24 two-week period, maybe, I called him to ask him to 25 tell us under what circumstances the selling of Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077456  33 structured settlements was permissible without 2 court approval. 3 Q. This was a telephone call? 4 A. Right. Actually, let me correct that. 5 As I recall, I told A.J. Discala from Clockwork 6 Capital Advisors. 7 MS. STILLMAN: I object. 8 BY THE WITNESS: 9 A. A.J. got Scott Rothstein on the phone. 10 BY MS. APRILL: 11 Q. Were you all on the phone together? 12 A. Yes. 13 MS. STILLMAN: You can talk about once Scott 14 Rothstein joining the phone call but not before 15 that. 16 THE WITNESS: Fair enough. 17 BY MS. APRILL: 18 Q. By the way, about Clockwork, you say 19 they were a client of this firm at that time? 20 A. Yes. The timing is a bit of a mystery 21 to me because Nina has instructed me not to look 22 at my files. 23 MS. STILLMAN: I can tell you that they were 24 a client. 25 BY THE WITNESS: Madison Deposition Services•70 W Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-0702 EFTA01077457  34 1 A. So the timing is a bit of a problem for 2 purposes of this, but Clockwork eventually becomes 3 a client, yes. 4 BY MS. APRILL: 5 Q. As far as you're concerned, during 6 these communications we've been discussing, 7 Clockwork was either a client or seeking legal 8 advice and about to be a client? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. You were saying -- 11 A. So the three of us and maybe one other 12 in my office were on the phone and called Scott to 13 say hey, our research has indicated that -- 14 MS. STILLMAN: Okay. This is what you said 15 in the call? 16 THE WITNESS: Exactly. 17 BY THE WITNESS: 18 A. So our research has indicated that at 19 least we have an issue with regard to selling 20 structured settlements outside of court approval 21 and I wanted to know on what basis he could do so. 22 BY MS. APRILL: 23 Q. What did he say? 24 A. He said oh, we're not settling tort 25 cases. There is some reason, I can't remember Madison Deposition Services•70 M Madison 14th FL•Chicago IL 60602•P:312-379-C702 EFTA01077458  35 1 what it is, he's like there was a reason. He may 2 have tried to call somebody else to get them on 3 the phone. He said I'll get back to you, and then 4 he did via an e-mail. 5 Q. He sent you an e-mail explaining why 6 these cases did not require court approval? 7 A. That's right. 8 Q• Is that one of the documents you 9 produced to me? 10 A. I believe so. 11 MS. STILLMAN: Yes. 12 BY MS. APRILL: 13 Q. Then what happened a