EFTA00801576.pdf

1 3 UNCERTIFIED TILU/SXMIPT DISCLAIMER IN THE MATTER OF 1 THE COURT: Continuo on with the EPSTEIN - discussion. Mr. Link, you were in mid V. I thought. EMOADS 4 HR. SCAROLA: I think Mr. Goldberger is hero to do the stay. THE COURT: Lot's go ahead and take care of that. e Hr. Goldberger. . HR. ODLDBERGER: Thank you for taking 10 me out of order. Ono of those days I have 11 so much going on. 12 THE COURT: I completely understand. 1 13 thank you also for adjusting your schedule 14 as well. Is All right, lot mo get my materials 16 ready for that aspect of the case. I think 27 I am ready to ga. Please proceed. IS HR. GOLDBERGER: Thank you, Honor. So 29 we have a motion to stay your proceedings 20 pending at this time. I think it's 21 important for us to kind of discuss first 22 with the Court what it is that we are IS seeking to have resolved before this case -- 24 we would like to see It proceed. The following transcript's) of proceedings, or any portion 25 And I bring that up because 2 4 1 thereof, in the above-entitled matter, taken on Decerber 1 Mr. Scarola, in a prior hearing, had 2 Sth, 2017. is being delivered UNEDITED and UNCERTIFIED by 2 mentioned that this is not just about the 3 the official court reporter et the request of Kara i resolution of the CVRA. Mr. Epstein perhaps 4 Rockenbach, Esquire. 4 has other matters that ho could potentially 5 The purchaser *greets not to disclose this uncertified and 5 have criminal liability concerning in other 6 unedited transcript In any form 'written or electronic) . jurisdictions that would not be covered by 7 To anyone who has no connection to this case. the NPA, which is part of the CVRA. e Ibis is en unofficial transcript, which should NOT be e THE COURT: Lot's put on the record 9 relied mica for purposes of verbatim citation of r exactly what you're spooking about so that 10 tenths:wry. :0 if anyone needs to review this they II This transcript has not berm checked, proofread is understand those acronyms completely.so the 12 or corrected. It is a draft transcript, NW a certified 12 first natter we have, Your Honor, is what 19 transcript. As ouch, it may contain computer-generated 13 has boon referred to as the CVRA case. That 14 nastranalatiome of stenotype code or electronic 14 is the Crime Victims' Reporting (sic) Act. Is transmission errors, resulting in inaccurate or 95 And that matter is being litigated in 14 nonsensical word combinations, or untranalated stenotype 16 federal court in the southern District of 17 symbols which cannot be deciphered by non-stanotypisms. 17 Florida court before Judge Marra. 16 Corrections will be made in cho preparation of the 10 HR. SCAROLA: Excuse me. Since we are 19 certified transcript, resulting In differences in content, 19 doing this for purposes of the record, I 20 page and line numbers, punctuation and formatting. 20 think that you nay have mistaken. CVRA is 21 This mealtime uncertified and unedited transcript contains 21 not crime victims' reporting act. It is the 22 no appearance page, certificate page, index or 22 Crime Victims' Rights. 22 certification. 23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Thank you very much. 24 24 I appreciate that, Mr. Scarola. 25 25 so that matter concerning the CVRA case Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. EFTA00801576  5 7 is pending before Judge Marra in the jurisdictions: New York, US Virgin Islands, 2 Southern District of Florida. In that 2 many other places. That is not what this matter, Mr. Edwards, as the attorney for 3 stay motion is about. 4 THE COURT: But isn't that critical to who happen to be Involved in this the analysis as to at least ono prong of the 5 case, are seeking the unprecedented remedy required elements that the Court is expected of setting aside Hr. ER:COWS 7 to look into, and that is, the length of 0 non-prosecution agreement. time that the delay is being sought. 9 For the record, we need to establish 9 Because even though the argument that 10 that there's a non-prosecution agreement in 10 you're making fits within a certain 11 place that prevents the US Attorney's Office 11 parameter, and somewhat similar to the 12 for the Southern District of Florida in 12 discussions we had last week about each side 13 going forward on any criminal prosecution 13 wanting to franc their respective cases in 14 Mr. Epstein related to certain enumerated 14 the matter that they see fit -- and I 15 offenses if Mr. Epstein complies with his 15 respect that because they aro advocates -- le non-prosecution agreement. io but from the Court's perspective, from the 17 Mr. Epstein has compiled with all parts 17 general public's perspective, from the 16 of that non-prosecution agreement. He has 16 perspective of Hr. Edwards, when it comes to 10 served a sentence that was part of that 19 Mr. Epstein's invocation of the Fifth 20 non-prosecution agreement, and he's going 20 Amendment, whether or not the parameters 21 about his life. 21 that you're seeking in your motion Only 22 In an unprecedented action, 22 applies to the NPA at issue here, that sane 29 Mr. Edwards, on behalf of those individuals, 13 potentiality of criminal prosecution in any 24 is seeking to sot aside that non-prosecution 24 of these jurisdictions where -- not being a 25 agreement and subject Mr. Epstein to 15 criminal defense lawyer, I am not going to 6 8 1 criminal prosecution for a matter that he 1 sit here and try to estimate what the 2 has already pled guilty to. 2 statute of limitations are for these types 3 It tugs at the very, very cornerstones 3 of alleged criminal activity -- of due process, Your Honor. But as a And again, I am not accusing anybody of 5 criminal defense attorney with a lot of 5 anything. I want that to be clear. You 6 years doing this, I have to act cautiously 6 brought up these other jurisdictions and the because one thing that Judge Marra said. potentialities. I don't know what those Judge Marra in ono of the orders in statute of limitations are. I only know 9 this case, indicated that setting aside of 9 that in my limited experience when it cones 10 the non-prosecution agreement Is something 10 to these types of potential claims or that he would consider. 11 potential charges, that the statutes aro 12 So I would be remiss, I would 12 typically extraordinarily longer, 13 committing malpractice if I allowed my 19 particularly when minors are involved for 14 client to testify fn matters in your lawsuit la very obvious reasons. 15 before Your Honor In matters that would be 15 So while the parameters that you aro 16 part of the non-prosecution agreement. So 14 suggesting may be your intent, that when a 17 that's kind of procedurally where we aro 17 broader perspective is looked upon, it's 10 right now. 10 very possible that the same outcome that, 19 What I wanted to clarify for the Court, 19 i.e., the invocation of the Fifth Amendment, 20 is that we aro not seeking to stay this case 20 which I respect, I understand, and fully 21 for any reason other than matters that aro 21 intend to comply with his ability to invoke 22 contained within the non-prosecution 22 the Fifth when appropriate. 23 agreement. 23 No don't know when that ends. 21 Now, Mr. Scarola has made reference to 24 MR. GOLDBERGER: I have a simple answer 25 potential prosecutions in other 2S for that, Your Honor. And I have sat here Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. EFTA00801577  9 11 and very carefully listened to Your Honor's recently taken of III., it was with the 2 pronouncements and the way you've the 2 expressed stipulation that she would be 3 handled this hearing and the hearing that we referred to in the record by those Initials. 4 have had. And you have indicated that THE COURT: The only positive that's 5 what's in play in this case aro cane out of this is getting those names and Those are the listening to those names, I don't know any 7 individuals that you have indicated you aro of those young ladies. I don't know any of 8 going to allow testimony concerning. Those their families. The names don't sound a bit 9 aro the vary sane Individuals that aro in familiar to me. So at least I don't have to 10 the NPA. That's all wo care about. 10 worry about that. 11 THE COURT: Excuse me for interrupting, 11 Mr. Link, did you want to add anything? 12 but I do want to make sure that this is 12 MR. LINK: If I might. 13 -- those three 13 The witness list of Mr. Edwards 14 individuals aro now over the age of 18. 14 actually names these folks by name. 25 Have they agreed to have thole names 35 MR. SCAROLA: That was inadvertent, 26 utilized at this point? 36 Your Honor, and we plan to address it. 27 Mr. Scarola, do you wish to comment on 37 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. IS that? Do you know? MR. LINK: The second thing, with Your 29 MR. SCAROLA: I cannot speak 39 Honor's permission, wo brought the plea. 10 authoritatively about that, Your Honor. 10 You wore asking about it last tine what the 91 THE COURT: Ny preference, Mr. 11 actually counts wore, and I have a copy of 22 Goldberger, is to continue to go ahead and 22 the non-prosecution agreement, which I can 29 use the initials until I'm comfortable. 29 provide to the Court. He have the actual 14 Because the criminal charges that were 24 documents. 25 brought, as you have recited them -- again, 25 THE COURT: Thank you. I appreciate 10 12 I appreciate the fact that you were horn that. 2 last week to help with those aspects -- MR. LINK: We will file then, so those criminal charges pertain to them when they're part of the court record. 4 they wore minors. So I don't want to, by THE COURT: For the today, I'm going to way of convenience or otherwise, suggest ask our court reporter -- absent any without a full agreement or something that's objection from respective counsel -- to 7 going to satisfy the Court, that they are simply amend the record so that only the o willing to have their names utilized, oven initials aro used please, so that we don't 9 at this juncture. Because my comfort level have the names specifically stated. And 30 at this point is not high. :o hearing no objection. II MR. GOLDBERGER: 1100 percent 11 We may need to address this later on 32 understand. I have lived this case for 10 32 down the lino. But again, until my comfort .3 years. These names have been used 33 level is satisfied, I want to do everything .4 throughout both the criminal litigation and .4 we can to continue to use their initials or 35 the litigation of those cases. Is the as the third individual. 16 THE COURT: So in the case before Judge 16 Again, Mr. Goldberger, I apologize for 17 Marra, their names have bean used? 17 interrupting you. 18 MR. GOLDBERGER: They have not been. 18 MR. GOLDBERGER: And I apologise if the 19 MR. SCAROLA: Your Honor, if I may, as 19 names wore mentioned. 20 I've thought about it. It is my ballot that 20 THE COURT: That's okay. 21 there's only ono Epstein victim who has 21 MR. GOLDBERGER: Anyhow, Judge -- but 22 voluntarily agreed that her name may bo used 22 to answer the Court's well-founded question, 23 and that is 23 is there any finality to the request for a 24 Tho others, I'm almost certain, have 24 stay, and the answer that Your Honor has 25 not -- and in fact, when the deposition was 25 ruled already that the testimony that will Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. EFTA00801578  13 15 I be allowed in this trial is the testimony of 1 I am just giving an example -- if he had 2 these throe Individuals, the very, very sane 2 brought a defamation claim against 3 three individuals who aro part of the 3 Mr. Epstein for things may have resulted 4 attempt to set aside the non-prosecution 4 from extra judicial statements that may have 5 agreement. boon made by Mr. Epstein to the press, to 6 So I want to make it clear to the court whomever, to third parties, published, and 7 our request for a stay is a limited request had some damage to Mr. Edwards, I could 6 for a stay, until such tine as the CVRA case understand the interplay and the potential 9 is resolved. And it has nothing to do with strategic decisions that would have boon 10 over alleged woman who may be making claims 10 made by Mr. Edwards In on the ono hand 11 against Mr. Epstein. And that oven more 11 haulm; the Crime Victims' Rights Act claim 12 important, based on Your Honor's ruling that 12 being brought -- which, arguably, out of 13 you've made that those aro the facts that 13 necessity Mr. Epstein has to preserve his 14 you aro going to allow the parties to go 14 Fifth Amendment right to self-incrimination, 25 into this case and not tangential issues 25 and the fact that Mr. Edwards acted in 26 involving other individuals. 26 taking the offensive in bringing the tort 2? So that Ls our -- that is the area -- 27 claim of some nature, generically -- again, 28 and that is the case that we aro seeking the 20 just as an exemplar -- against Hr. Epstein, 29 stay concerning. 29 the strategies would then coalesce, co-exist 20 So where aro we procedurally? Well, 20 and would create concern of a significant 21 this attempt to sot aside the 21 nature for the Court. 22 non-prosecution agreement was brought by 22 But this is quite different. How do wo 29 Bradley Edwards. We can't lose sight of 29 address that? 24 that. It was brought by Bradley Edwards, 24 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. Respectfully, 25 who Ls the counter-plaintiff Ln this case. 25 Judge, strategy has nothing to do with this. 14 16 1 So Mr. Epstein is put between the proverbial h It's the playing field that we aro on right 2 rock and a hard place in this situation, 2 9 Your Honor. , Now, Mr. Epstein filed his lawsuit 4 THE COURT: You know the thrust of 4 against Mr. Edwards, and ho very wall could $ Mr. Scarola's argument. 5 have gone forward in that lawsuit without 6 MR. GOLDBERGER: I know what's coming. . having to testify, without having to worry 7 I know what's coming. That we started this. about Firth Amendment privileges, whether 8 THE COURT: And that's critical, e he's implicating himself in any kind of 9 because but for Mr. Epstein's action In criminal liability. He could have gone 20 bringing this lawsuit in 2009 and amending :0 forward on that case against Mr. Edwards II his complaint in 2011, and then failing to II without having to get on the stand and 22 address in any fashion the motion for 22 testify. 29 summary judgment that was ultimately brought 29 Now, in defense of that case, if that 24 by Mr. Edwards against Hr. Epstein and a 24 case had gone forward and the defense had 25 Judgment resulting therefrom -- that Ls 35 called Hr. Epstein, then he would have had a 16 judgment of dismissal of the claim by 16 decision to make as to whether he was going 17 Mr. Epstein -- this never would have boon an 17 tO answer the qu 10 issue. what we are dealing with now would 16 THE COURT: Well, I couldn't imagine in 19 never have boon an issue. 19 reviewing Mr. Epstein's complaint now for 20 I can certainly understand, and I 20 the -- beyond 10 times -- that ho could have 21 believe there would be firmer footing to 21 avoided taking the witness stand to justify 22 rely on if Mr. Edwards had brought some type 22 most, if not all of his claims, in that 23 of Clair. against Hr. Epstein. Let's say 23 initial suit. But go ahead. 24 sane typo of defamation claim -- I am not 24 MR. GOLDBERGER: If wo put that aside, 25 suggesting there aro any grounds for that. 25 and we turn to the playing field that we aro Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. EFTA00801579  17 19 1 on right now, we have one lawsuit that's Judge Marra getting out an order until the 2 pending right now. You can call it anything 2 spring or summer of 2018. 3 you want. You can call it count-plaintiff, 3 MR. COLDBERGER: I don't have a 4 counter-defendant -- I practice on the other recollection of that, Your Honor. But if 5 side of the elevator -- but we are defending that's been out there, I accept that -- 6 a lawsuit right now. We are the defendants THE COURT: It didn't give me much 7 in this case. confidence that it was going to be 0 we cannot defend that case. It is not accomplished in a relatively brief period of 9 a fair playing field. Ne can't defend this time. And certainly -- at least, again 10 case because of what the plaintiff has done. 10 anecdotally, without having it here in front 11 He has brought an action to set aside 11 me -- not going to be accomplished before 12 Mr. Epstein's non-prosecution agreement. 12 March 13 of 2028, which is the trial day 13 And Mr. Epstein has no choice, if I'm his 13 here. 14 lawyer, but to invoke his Fifth Amendment 14 MR. COLDBERCER: My review of PACER I 25 privileges. 25 think is they are at the point where there's 26 what does that do? It's going to allow 26 a motion for partial summary judgment that's 27 Mr. Scarola to ask for all of these adverse 27 outstanding. So that to mm -- again, not 28 inferences and try to truck roll those 30 being necessarily a civil practitioner -- 29 adverse inferences to this Jury. And that's 29 when I hear the word summary judgment, 10 the playing field we have right now. 20 to me someone is asking to end this thing. 22 And we didn't bring this upon sl I think that's the juncture that it's at 22 ourselves. They aro doing it, because they 22 right now. 22 have brought this action to set aside the 22 So my point is, Your Honor, that we are 14 NPA. 24 not seeking an indeterminate stay. And the 25 I am not asking this Court to stay this 25 Court has road the papers and you aro 18 20 case for indeterminate period of time. of the various factors that the Court is 2 There's three things that can happen, Your 2 considering in determining whether to grant Honor. Mr. Edwards can volunteer to not the stay, you have discussed one, I ask 4 seek the remedy of setting aside the rhetorically what is the prejudice at this non-prosecution agreement. He's seeking 5 point for a limited stay so that matter 6 other remedies in his CYRA case. He could resolves. 7 do that. Judge Marra could enter his order Mr. Edwards, if he has been damaged, on the account to set aside the NPA, or this has been damaged already. They want to try 9 Court can temporarily stay the matter until this case in March. Everything that has 30 such time ono of those things happen. :0 happened, has happened. Nothing to going to II There's been no testimony on the record 31 change. 32 from anybody as to how long that stay is 32 THE COURT: What they will argue though 33 going to require. 23 is that there is financial recompense that .4 I think at ono hoaring you asked 24 Mr. Edwards is claiming that has built up 25 Mr. Edwards -- not on the stand or anything 25 over the years -- and Mr. Scarola was 16 like that -- how long is that CYRA case 16 alluding to -- there's a substantial amount 17 going to go on for. Mr. Edwards said, Well, 17 of loss that he has encountered as a result 10 it could go on for a long time. Well, 10 of the ongoing litigation over the last 19 that's the only record you have right now 19 seven, going on eight years. 20 that this thing is not coming to fruition. 20 MR. COLDBERCER: Your Honor, When you 21 THE COURT: Well, that and anecdotally. 21 weigh that -- Mr. Edwards, admittedly has 22 In seeing the newspaper account, I believe 22 testified in deposition that he's 23 it was suggested that the federal court is 23 successful. He's doing very well for 24 not looking to try the case -- or there's 24 himself -- and I congratulate him for 25 going to be a significant hiatus in terms of 25 that -- but when you weigh that to the Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. EFTA00801580  21 23 1 prejudice to Mr. Epstein that he has those Rothstein, Rosenfeldt 6 Adler when 2 handcuffs -- he's got them back on -- ho presumably Mr. Edwards would have bean most 3 can't defend this case at this point. susceptible to a malicious prosecution • I think -- Your Honor, wo talked about I assault. He didn't need to filo it then. 5 the 403 analysis on other matters, prejudice He had at least four years in which to 6 versus probative value, I think we can kind a file it if. He's claiming he's a victim of 7 of do a balancing analysis in this a RICO action, he would have had at least 8 situation. five years in which to file it. If he 9 Maybe Mr. Edwards wants to have his day 9 claims that somehow he was unaware of the 10 court sooner than later. And there may be 10 reasonable basis for the filing of a claim 11 some prejudice there. But when you look at 11 against Mr. Edwards because relevant facts 12 the extreme prejudice that Mr. Epstein is 12 wore concealed from him, than the statutes 13 suffering, wall, he just can't defend this 11 of limitation wouldn't have even begun to 14 case. 14 15 Courts are designed to be level playing 15 So there's no question about the fact 16 fields, and that's got nothing to do with 16 that Mr. Epstein brought this upon himself. 27 what the Court's doing. But just by virtue 17 He initiated these proceedings nine years 38 of the way the facts have come out in this 18 ago knowing, as Mr. Goldberger says, he 39 case and procedurally what has happened, it IS could not defend them. 20 is not a level playing field for Mr. Epstein 20 And in deed he couldn't defend them, II because he has no choice but to invoke his 21 because in the face of a motion for summary 22 Fifth Amendment privileges, and Mr. Scarola 22 judgment, which called upon him to disclose 29 is waiting for everything to flow from that. 21 the basis for his claims against 14 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Goldberger, 24 Mr. Edwards, he filed nothing. 25 thank you. I will give you a couple minutes 25 And on the eve of the motion for 22 24 I to rebut if you choose to. 1 summary judgment, he voluntarily dismissed 2 Mr. Scarola. 2 his case. He didn't say, I need a stay in 9 MR. SCAROLA: The complaint out of i order to be able to produce evidence to • which this malicious prosecution claim 4 support my claims. He allowed the claims to 5 arises was flied on December 9 of 2009. So 5 be resolved against him now conclusively. 6 wo aro about to observe the ninth e So those arguments, quite frankly, 7 anniversary of the pendency of this don't make sense. And I have gone through 8 litigation. e in the written response that we filed and 9 THE COURT: Excuse no for my pointed out all of the stages In the 30 mathematical -- :0 litigation where Mr. Epstein reasonably 31 MR. SCAROLA: No, no. That's quite all 31 could have coma before the court said, I 32 right, sir. I didn't make that comment as 32 need a stay. 33 any criticism of Court's math, but just to 19 What the defense acknowledges in their 34 observe that there have boon nine years 34 motion to stay is -- and this is a quote. 35 during which a motion to stay could have 35 'Florida courts have long recognized that 16 boon brought to the attention of the Court. 16 although under certain circumstances a trial 17 And we know that the same basis upon 17 court may grant a stay in a civil proceeding 18 which the argument rests today existed on 18 for a limited time during the pendency of a 19 Macomber 9, 2009, because the complaint 19 concurrent criminal proceeding, such a stay 20 Itsolf refers in paragraph 4211.1 to the 20 is not constitutionally required. 21 pendency of the non-prosecution agreement. 21 •The earlier the motion is made, the 22 So it was there. And Mr. Epstein know LC 22 more favorably it's looked upon. The 23 was there when he filed this case. 23 shorter the stay can reasonably anticipated 24 And as Your Honor observed, ho flied 24 to last, the more favorably it's looked 25 this case within days of the implosion of 25 upon.• Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. EFTA00801581  25 27 1 The burden of proving how long this 1 there is a federal statute which makes 2 stay reasonably can be anticipated to last 2 admissible in any other criminal proceeding 3 is not on us. It's on the party making the 3 evidence of other child victim crimes. 4 motion. So, Mr. Epstein can have the advantage 5 THE COURT: This is not a typical of a final disposition with regard to crimes 6 concurrent legal -- strike that. only in the Southern District of Florida -- 7 Concurrent criminal prosecution that we as has boon repeatedly pointed out. That's 8 see in automobile accident cases, for all the non-prosocutlon agreement covers -- 9 example, where there may be corresponding 9 but he still has a Fifth Amendment right to 10 vehicular manslaughter case -- 10 refuse to answer any questions about the II MR. SCAROLA: Or a drunk driving 11 crimes that he committed in the southern 12 charge -- 12 District of Florida, because they aro 12 THE COURT: Or DUI-type issue. 13 admissible in every other jurisdiction where 14 MR. SCAROLA: C . Clearly that's 14 he's been doing exactly the same thing to 15 the circumstance, Your Honor. 25 children for years. And no ono could 16 But let me talk about part of what 26 reasonably challenge that assertion of the 17 Mr. Goldberger has said with regard to what 37 Fifth Amendment privilege. So that's one 16 wo can reasonably anticipate with regard to 28 alternative. 29 length of this stay. 29 The other alternative is Crime victims' 20 There are two possibilities with regard 20 Rights Act case results in setting aside the II to the non-prosecution agreement. It can be II non-prosocutlon agreement. And no matter 22 set aside or it cannot be set aside. 22 what Mr. Goldberger may say about what he 29 If it is not set aside, then 29 believes the merits of that claim to be ad 24 Mr. Goldberger tolls us that there would be 24 the likelihood of that outcome to be, Judge 25 no longer any basis for the assertion of the 25 Marra has clearly Indicated that Jeffrey 26 28 1 Fifth Amendment privilege. Epstein faces the possibility of having that 2 Moll, respectfully, I suggest that 2 non-prosecution agreement set aside, in there is nothing in the record that supports which case, he tacos criminal exposure, 4 the assertion that Mr. Epstein will waive criminal liability for the 40 cases that wo his Fifth Amendment privilege upon the 5 know of, and any other cases that aro 6 favorable conclusion of the Crime Victims* developed subsequent to that time. And Rights Act case. those prosecutions can go on for years and 8 THE COURT: As a second point, I their appeals can go on for years. 9 presume that, like any other civil case -- So there simply is no balls, none, upon 30 this isn't construed as a civil case, 10 which a prediction can be made as to a 31 correct, this Crime Victims' Rights Act reasonable limitation associated with a stay 22 22 in this case. And these aro all things that 13 MR. SCAROLA: Yes, sir, It is. Subject 29 Mr. Epstein had an opportunity to avoid, or 24 to appeal. 24 at least an opportunity to limit, by 25 THE COURT: That's exactly what I was 35 delaying the filing of his maliciously filed 16 going to say. Either side can appeal. So 16 claim. 17 in other words, the state could appeal -- or 17 He started this battle knowing the 10 whomever the actual federal government could 10 criminal exposure that ho faced clearly at 19 appeal -- or Mr. Edward's client could 19 the time -- not only in the Southern 20 appeal. 20 District of Florida -- but knowing the 21 MR. SCAROLA: Yes, sir. True. 21 criminal exposure he faces elsewhere as 22 In addition to that, oven assuming a 22 well. 23 final and conclusive resolution of the Crime 23 THE COURT: I made a notation in the 24 Victims' Rights Act case which upholds the 24 binder. And I think this is what you're 25 validity of the non-prosecution agreement, 25 suggesting, Mr. Seaaaaa. Correct ma If I am Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. EFTA00801582  29 31 wrong. that Brad Edwards has a right, an absolute 2 what I wrote last night when I was right to put an and to. And the only way he 3 reviewing those materials, was that conclusively dons that is with a judgment in 4 Mr. Epstein by and through his attorney his favor in this case. 5 should have recognized the potential So there is a vary, vary significant 6 exposure, i.e., to a malicious prosecution, prejudice that has already bean suffered by 7 when he brought suit against Hr. Edwards and delay. Thera aro other aspects -- less 8 III., for that matter as wall. significant. But if this case wasn't filed 9 I don't want to include Rothstein In 9 until four years later, all of those 10 the mix because that's a separate can of 10 appellate proceedings, that were very costly 11 worms, which we don't have to get into 11 to the plaintiff, would have been avoided 12 substantively at this point in time. 12 because the law would haven settled by that 13 I don't think there's any way to not 13 time. 14 consider that. In other words, when the 14 So there aro many reasons to deny this 25 various claims were brought against 35 motion. There are no reasons to grant Lt. 26 Rothstein, Edwards and III., there should 36 Thank you, sir. 17 have boon -- and the Court would make this 37 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Scarola. 38 finding in its ruling -- subject to 38 Mr. Goldberger. 19 Mr. Goldbargor's rebuttal -- that 29 HR. GOLDBERGER: I don't want to 20 Mr. Epstein by and through his Counsel 20 respond to oath of Mr. Scarola's arguments. 11 should have realized the potential 21 I want to just reiterate the playing field 22 ramifications of bringing this lawsuit. And 22 that we have hero. The way things stand 29 those potential ramifications being that if 29 right now, Your Honor, Kr. Epstein cannot 14 he did not have the ability to sustain the 24 defend this case. SS claims that he made -- whether by way of 25 He can attempt to defend the case, but 30 32 1 summary judgment, jury trial, appeal, he's going to have these adverse inferences 2 whatever the case might have been -- then 2 that are going to be pointing at him like 3 that recognition should have carried over to arrows. It's not a fair fight. And the anticipate the vary exposure which he now is only way to avoid the situation where it's facing, that being the malicious prosecution 5 not a fair fight is for a limited stay. claim brought by Mr. Edwards. And when Kr. Scarola says we could have 7 HR. SCAROLA: Your Honor, I have just filed our motion for a stay early on, we 8 ono last matter that I want to address, and specifically did not file our motion for 9 that is the subject of prejudice. stay early on because that case -- that 20 As, Your Honor, I know appreciates, :0 being the CVRA case was in it's infancy. delay is never the friend of the party with 1 As I've explained to the court, we're 12 the burden of proof. No have already 32 at -- partial summary judgment status now, 13 experienced a nine-year delay. And that 33 so it's reasonable to assume -- despite what 14 does have an impact on our ability to 14 the newspaper say, and despite how fast this 15 sustain our burden of proof, because 35 case has moved, we aro much farther long in 16 memories fade and it impacts upon up to a 16 the case, and a reasonable stay can make it 17 disproportionate degree than It does to the 17 a fair playing field, is all that 10 defense when we carry the burden of proof. 18 Me. Epstein is asking. 19 But there's something more significant. 19 In my enthusiasm, I may have said 20 And that is, for nine years these 20 Mr. Epstein plod guilty to offenses 21 allegations have repeatedly been receiving 21 involving the throe women. If I did say 22 public attention without any final 22 that, that was not a correct statement. Ho 23 disposition exonerating Brad Edwards. 23 did not plead guilty to any of those 24 Thera is a poison that has boon 24 women -- anything involving those throe 25 circulating within the stream of knowledge 25 women. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. EFTA00801583  33 35 THE COURT: Thank you both aides for all represented by Kr. Edwards. No had 2 your written and oral presentations. 2 the added complication of the implosion of 3 Obviously I have given this a great deal of 3 the Rothstein firm duo to the heinous 4 thought. I have reviewed the materials that 4 activity that Kr. Rothstein ended up 5 have been provided to m0, including a pleading to. 6 sampling of the case law that was provided we had, as I mentioned last week and as 7 to the Court. Mr. Scarola reiterated today, what must have The motion la denied. There was a boon an extremely harrowing experience for 9 phrase that was used in the motion filed by 9 anyone concerned, including Rothstein 10 Kr. Epstein that has sone analogous 10 himself -- though I hold no personal empathy 11 circumstances here. This talks in terms of 11 for him. I will, of course, as an aside 12 the invocation of the Fifth Amendment. I 12 adjudicate the case with full recognition of 13 will read it to you. But it gave me food 13 his rights and remedies, as I would any 14 for thought, as I was trying to decide 14 other litigant. But in terms of these 25 reviews of the papers the next step in terms 35 particular facts and the peculiarity of this 26 of how I was going to deal this and the 36 matter it's something that needs to Do subject of oral argument. 27 dressed and discussed. 16 It says, quote, A necessity of the 28 -- and the timeline that follows, which 29 validity of an assertion of Fifth Amendment 29 is compelling to the Court and its analysis, 20 privilege, the court must look to all of the 20 as it was earlier during recent hearings, SI circumstances of the case and be governed as II that Hr. Rothstein's arrest and the time 22 much by personal perceptions of the 22 period -- which may not completely dovetail 29 peculiarities of the case as by the facts 29 with the federal agents raiding the 24 actually in evidence, end quote. And that's 24 offices -- was a week before the subject 25 a quote from the case called SEC versus 25 complaint filed by Hr. Epstein was 34 36 1 H-I-L-I-T-A-N-0, which was an initiated. 2 order from the southern district of Now York 2 And as I mentioned earlier, what I citing -- and actually quoting from a case wrote in the margin of the binder was what I 4 called Hoffman versus United States at 341 perceived to be a reasonable consideration 5 US 479 and 486. United States Supreme Court 5 by counsel for Kr. Epstein and Kr. Epstein 6 decision from 1951. why did that quote himself as the plaintiff in that 2009 case 7 strike ma as I was going through the actual that he brought during the time period I 8 issues that aro before the Court on the stay just indicated around December of 2009 and 9 order? hero we are in 2017, which is actually the 20 And that is, I think evidence, by the :0 eight anniversary, so my math skills weren't 21 quote and that in that personal perceptions 22 off too badly, because the case was brought 21 of the peculiarities of the case govern the in December of 2009. we aro here now in 29 Cour