EFTA00822671.pdf

From: "Jeffrey E." <[email protected]> To: Deepak Chopra Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:46:42 +0000 fun On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Deepak Chopra < wrote: FYI Dee ak Cho ra Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing Begin forwarded message: From: Asingh2384 Date: August 3, 2016 at 8:23:27 PM GMT+2 To: Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness Hi Deepak: Enjoyed your video on Stephen Hawking and other atheists' positions. You have eloquently described the current limitations of the mainstream science to describe the "Ontological Primitive Reality. or existence. As you mention, current scientific theories include EM strong and weak nuclear forces and gravity. However, so far science has been unable to develop and integrate the missing physics of anti-gravity or spontaneous expansion of the universe as evidenced by Hubble. Einstein tried to fudge the anti-gravity via a fudge factor —"Cosmological Constant" that he later called his biggest blunder. The recent Supernova observations have pointed to an accelerated expansion (beyond the linear Hubble expansion) in the far-field universe leading to the speculation of Dark (unknown) Energy signifying a strong anti-gravity force in the universe. What is astonishing that when the physics of the well-known spontaneous decay of particles is integrated into general relativity, it leads to a physical mechanistic theory of anti-gravity that predicts the empirical observations of the universe, explains the dark energy and accelerated expansion of the universe. It also resolves the key paradoxes of QM eliminating the Big Bang singularity and associated incredible phenomena such as the superluminous inflation, multiple universes, and eventual death of a purposeless universe. What is even more wondrous that such an integrated model of the physics of spontaneity provides a scientific (physical and mathematical) basis for the Zero point state of the *Ontological Primitive Reality" described as the unmanifested (fully dilated mass/energy), Etemity (fully dilated time), Omnipresence (fully dilated space) at the speed of light. (This is synchronous with the experiences of the spiritual masters and sages during deep meditation or Samadhi or Enlightenment (fully dilated Ego)). What is significant and noteworthy here is that in spite of the fact that such a Zero-point state is immeasurable (unmanifested) and experimentally unverifiable, but it is humanly experience-able, repeatable, and it does follow the same EFTA00822671 sets of universal laws that predict the empirically observed universe resolving its current paradoxes. It also leads to a scientifically describable universal consciousness or existence synonymous with the "Ontological Primal Reality". Mainstream science needs to recognize and integrate the missing physics of spontaneity as a possible panacea to curing the current paralysis of science as well as solving the mystery of the observed universe and the experienced consciousness. Such an integrated approach would not only bridge science and spirituality, but also provide purpose and meaning to the universe and life in it. Best Regards Avtar Singh, Sc.D. Alumni, MIT Author of "The Hidden Factor - An Approach for Resolving Paradoxes of Science, Cosmology, and Universal Reality" Original Message---- From: Deepak Chopra To: Online_Sadhu_Sanga Sent: Tue, Aug 2, 2016 3:24 am Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness FYI Re Stephen Hawking and other atheists https://www.facebook.com/DeepakChopra/videos/10153808865630665/ Dee ak Cho ra Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing On Aug 2, 2016, at 7:52 AM, ' <I=MI> wrote: Dr. Moskowitz What do you mean by "enters awareness"? What do you do with a depressed state? Mood is depressed, the content is irrelevant. And what does intension have to do with a depressed state? AL MD On Jul 23, 2016, at 10:22 PM, < wrote: A very interesting and simulating discussion thread regarding consciousness. Perhaps we will all "know" the "answer" the day we take our final breath and transcend from this physical human form to our pure energy form. Perhaps then in that moment we will truly understand this answer. Until then, we continue to explore and engage. Best, Deb Dr. Debra Lindh EFTA00822672 President and Founder Mindful Effect LLC **This is a transmission from the company of the Mindful Effect, LLC and Dr. Debra Lindh and may contain information which is privileged, confidential, and protected. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy it and notify us immediately at our telephone numbe ** Original Message Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness From: "'Asingh2384' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." < Date: Thu Jul 21 2016 5:04 gm To: Consciousness (Free Will) is a non-local universal phenomenon not a local or biological (brain) phenomenon. Hence, no local (space-time limited) treatise of consciousness can explain consciousness. It is like trying to explain the elephant by its tail or to explain blue skies via a cloud. It is also like churning water to produce butter. A computer only generates numbers (bits) not consciousness. A computer has no self, free will or awareness of its own. Regards Avtar Original Message---- From: Dr. Mike Sosteric < To: online_sadhu_sanga < Sent: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 12:56 pm Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness As for consciousness the fact is that we are relying on consciousness in order to ask the question What is consciousness? And the fact that after all the advancements in computer science we can fundamentally disagree on such a bask question as to whether consciousness is computer generated or not means that ultimately we will never be able to completely answer that question. No. That's like saying, because "we" are all confused now, "we" will all be confused in the future. What kind of scientist would accept a proposition like that? From: on behalf of Brad Bartholomew Sent: 21 July 2016 03:11:04 To: Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness Dear Soren & Witt I think most scientists would agree with the propositions of Seth Lloyd in his book Programming the Universe that the universe is a gigantic quantum computer (although why in this age of miniaturization a quantum EFTA00822673 computer needs to be the size of the universe to generate the universe is another question). If Seth Lloyd is right then everything in this universe is ultimately computer generated. As for consciousness the fact is that we are relying on consciousness in order to ask the question What is consciousness? And the fact that after all the advancements in computer science we can fundamentally disagree on such a basic question as to whether consciousness is computer generated or not means that ultimately we will never be able to completely answer that question. It is the same for physicists seeking the theory of everything. They are entities within the universe seeking to know everything about the universe. They are ultimately bound by the program that set them up in the first place.This is the way Seth Lloyd explains it: "Code' showed that the capacity for self-reference leads automatically to paradoxes in logic; the British mathematician Alan Turing showed that self-reference leads to uncomputability in computers." When a computer processes data the data contains instructions to the computer as to its source. Virtual drives are set up on computers that give the computer false information as to the source of the data and the computer is none the wiser. This is what I meant when I said that computers are tricked every day as to the source of the data they are processing. Sensory data contains instructions that it is coming from a physical external world, but it ain't necessarily so. Kind regards Brad On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Soren Brier <[email protected]> wrote: Dear Brad As a biologist I will deny that we are a computers in the Turing understanding of it. I know we try to imitate living neural networks in the dead computers we have now. It gives a few steps forward but does not really solve the deed problem. You need to define a much more general model for computation that can cover what our machine do as well as living organisms including those without a brain do and how socio- communicative function. As a scientist and philosopher I have to say that we have not agreed on what we are or what the world is constructed from. No doubt the concepts of matter, energy, force and information are depicting true aspects of reality, but when I in neurobiology and psychology was looking for experience and qualia in the nervous system, I — and nobody else - did not find any. There is some insufficiencies on our metaphysical framework. This is why i am interested in the debate with other cultural metaphysics of which Advaita Vedanta is one of the more interesting and I think can be brought into harmony with a new physical understanding build on quantum physics and non-equilibrium thermodynamics systems science and cybernetics and last but no least Peircean semiotics. Best wishes SOren Brier Professor in the semiotics of information, cognition and communication science, department of International Business Communication, Copenhagen Business School, Home page: www.cbs.dk/staff/sbibc. Transdisciplinary framework: Editor in chief of Cybernetics & Human Knowing 2015 JPBMB Special Issue on Integral Biomathies: Life Sciences, Mathematics and Phenomenological Philosophy (note: free access to all articles until July 19th, 2016) EFTA00822674 Fra: [mailto: PA vegne of Brad Bartholomew Sendt: 20. juli 2016 20:09 Til: Emne: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sonya] Consciousness Dear Soren Well you know it is undeniable in my opinion that consciousness is computer generated. It is also undeniable that we are a computer generated entity that is trying to figure out what it is. Ergo we come up against that fundamental principle in computer science that we can't think outside the program. Once you accept the fact that consciousness comes from sensory data then all bets are off as to the actual source of that data. Computers are tricked every day as to the source of the data they are processing. Kind regards Brad On 20 Jul 2016 07:29, "Soren Brier" <sb [email protected]> wrote: Dear Brad The knotty question is also: Why looks at the television screen. That question makes your model collapse. Soren Fra: [mailto: PS vegne of Brad Bartholomew Sendt: 19. juli 2016 19:45 Til: Emne: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness With respect I think consciousness is the easiest thing of all to explain. It is the representation of sensory data on the cortex of the brain that acts as a sophisticated television screen that we can smell taste and touch as well as see and hear. The knotty question is whether that sensory data actually comes from a real physical external world as it appears to do, or whether the source of that data is within us as per the Hindu tradition. My vote is for the latter. Kind regards Brad On 18 Jul 2016 7:13 a.m., "Peter Moskovitz" < > wrote: I've no idea how my email address got attached to this conversation and I'm rather certain that my comments will be unwelcome, but, arrogant pedant that I am, you shall have them. That Dawkins does not understand consciousness comes as no surprise. Any conversation with Hammeroff is, a priori, non-informative. Consciousness obeys the laws of chaos (randomness does no occur in nature), as do quantum fields, but consciousness has nothing to do with the perturbation of quantum fields in any part of the nervous system. It was a nice try, but a silly one. Consciousness has no contents. It is about something (intensionality) but it has no contents, nothing that can be observed, measured, recorded or analysed. Therefore, there is no "granularity" of consciousness: qualia do not exist. The hard problem is an illusion. Mysterianism is not so much a lack of knowledge as it is a lack of imagination and insight. EFTA00822675 As Adam Zeman put it: If your theory admits to the existence of zombies, your theory needs fixed. You have to say that with a Scottish accent. Consciousness (the feeling of what happens, the remembered present) is the experience of perceptual contents. Do not mistake this definition with "the contents of perceptual experience". They sound alike, but the word order changes the meaning completely. Perceptual contents are the neural representation of stimuli, internal or external. Neural representations can be observed (if one's instruments are good enough), measured, recorded and analysed. The experience of the representation cannot, it is subjective, entirely subjective. Experience has no contents. Spirituality is a state of experience but it is not the "contents" of experience. (Which is one reason why the DL has declared that if neuroscience disproves his beliefs, he will search for new beliefs, brave fellow.) Consciousness is the synchronous oscillation of massively interconnected, multidimensional, recursive circuits, networks and systems throughout the global workspace. What enters awareness probably oscillates at about 40 hz. Oscillation at partial and harmonic frequencies probably effect how the perceptual apparatus represents transduced stimuli, how other perceptual contents enter consciousness and awareness and how contents are retained to enter awareness later, when the stimulus is remote. The theory has no empirical support, though parts of it have been validated. It's not new, and certainly not with me. Theorists and investigators I like include Crick and Koch, Rudolfo Llinas, Wolf Singer, Henry Markram and many others. Certainly not Chalmers, Jackson, Nagel, McGinn, Hammeroff and Penrose, etc. Sorry, I warn most people that they shouldn't "get me started". I promise I'll send no more. PM Peter A. Moskovitz Clinical Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery and Neurological Surgery George Washington University Chairman, Board of Directors RSDSA (Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome Association - www.rsds.org) Member, Board of Directors FUDR (Friends of the Upper Delaware River) - www.fudr.org Fourth International Conference 'Science and Scientist - 2016' August 26 - 27, 2016, Bangalore University http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016 Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anolles: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191 Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03 EFTA00822676 Life and consciousness — The Vedantic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138 Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/about/#instructions Sadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu- Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. 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To unsubscribe from this • rou u and sto receivin emails from it, send an email to To post to this grou Visit this group at For more options, visit Fourth International Conference 'Science and Scientist - 2016' August 26 — 27, 2016, Bangalore University http://scsiscs.orglconference/scienceandscientist/2016 Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anolles: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191 Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03 Life and consciousness — The Vedantic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138 Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsangalaboutl#instructions Sadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.netlsatsanga Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. 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