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0016
1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 15th JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA
2
CASE No. 502008CA037319XXXXMB AB
3
4
5 =.,
6 Plaintiff,
7
- vs-
8
9 JEFFREY EPSTEIN,
10 Defendant.
11
12
13 CONTINUED DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN
14 VOLUME II
15
16 Thursday, October 8, 2009
17
18 10:07 - 1:03 p.m.
19
20 250 South Australian Avenue
Suite 1400
21 West Palm Beach,Florida 33401
22
23 Reported By:
Jeana Ricciuti, RPR, FPR, CLR
24 Notary Public, State of Florida
Prose Court Reporting Agency, Inc.
25
0017
1 APPEARANCES:
2 On behalf of the Plaintiff:
SPENCER T. KUVIN, ESQUIRE
3 ADAM LANGINO, ESQUIRE
LEOPOLD KUVIN, P.A.
4 2295 PGA Boulevard
Suite 200
5 Palm Beach Gardens, Florida 33410
Phone:
6
On behalf of IIM. and III. and Jane Doe in Case No.
7 80893:
CARA L. HOLMES, ESQUIRE
8 ROTHSTEIN, ROSENFELDT & ADLER
401 East Las Olas Boulevard
9 Suite 1650
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301
10 Phone:
11 On behalf of Plaintiff Jane Doe in Case No. 80591 and
80656 via telephone:
12 KATHERINE W. EZELL, ESQUIRE
PODHURST ORSECK, P.A.
13 25 West Flagler Street
Miami, Florida 33130
14 Phone:
15 On behalf of the Defendant:
JACK GOLDBERGER, ESQUIRE
16 STORY KOWLES, PARALEGAL
ATTERBURY, GOLDBERGER & WEISS, P.A.
EFTA01158522
17 250 South Australian Avenue
Suite 1400
18 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
Phone:
19
MICHAEL J. PIKE, ESQUIRE
20 BURMAN, CRITTON, LUTTIER & COLEMAN, P.A.
303 Banyan Boulevard
21 Suite 400
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
22 Phone:
23 ALSO PRESENT:
24 DAN DOSKEY, VIDEOGRAPHER
VISUAL EVIDENCE, INC.
25
0018
1
INDEX
2
3 WITNESS: DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
4 JEFFREY EPSTEIN
5 BY MR. KUVIN 21
6
7
8
EXHIBITS
9
10 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
11 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 1 FDLE SEXUAL 24
OFFENDER/PREDATOR FLYER
12 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 2 STATEMENT 25
PLAINTIFF'S EX. 3 PHOTOGRAPH OF HOME 33
13 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 4 BOTTLE OF JOY JELLY 38
PLAINTIFF'S EX. 5 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 129
14 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 6 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 129
PLAINTIFF'S EX. 7 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 131
15 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 8 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 132
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
0019
1 PROCEEDINGS
2
3 Deposition taken before Jeana Ricciuti, Registered
4 Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for the
5 State of Florida at Large, in the above cause.
6
7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the video record.
8 This is the 8th day of October, 2009, and the time
9 it approximately 10:07 a.m.
10 This is the continuation of the videotaped
11 deposition of Jeffrey Epstein in the matter of
12 versus Epstein. This deposition is being held at
13 250 South Australian Avenue, No. 1400 in West Palm
14 Beach, Florida.
15 My name is Dan Doskey I'm the videographer
EFTA01158523
16 representing Visual Evidence, Incorporated.
17 Would the attorneys present please announce
18 their appearances for the record?
19 MR. KUVIN: Spencer Kuvin and Adam Langino on
20 behalf of the Plaintiff, §§§.
21 MS. HOLMES: Cara Holmes for III.
22 MR. PIKE: Michael Pike on behalf of
23 Jeffrey Epstein.
24 MR. GOLDBERGER: And Jack Goldberger on behalf
25 of Jeffrey Epstein.
0020
1 Kathy, do you want to identify yourself?
2 Kathy, are you there?
3 MS. EZELL: Yes.
4 MR. PIKE: She puts it on mute every once in a
5 while.
6 MR. GOLDBERGER: Hey, Kathy, are you there?
7 MS. EZELL: Yes.
8 MR. GOLDBERGER: Just -- we're just
9 identifying everyone who's on this thing. Can you
10 just identify yourself?
11 MS. EZELL: Yes. It's Kathy Ezell. I'm
12 sorry, Kathy Ezell is here.
13 - - -
14 Thereupon,
15 (JEFFREY EPSTEIN)
16 having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was examined
17 and testified as follows:
18 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am.
19 MR. PIKE: Pull that back, please.
20 MR. KUVIN: Back?
21 MR. PIKE: Yeah, not on the video. I want to
22 make sure it's not on the video.
23 MR. KUVIN: We're good? Thank you.
24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It's not.
25 DIRECT EXAMINATION
0021
1 BY MR. KUVIN:
2 Q. Could you give us your name, sir, please.
3 A. Jeffrey Epstein.
4 MR. GOLDBERGER: Kathy, you've got to put it
5 on mute. Kath -- Kathy?
6 MS. EZELL: Give me one second.
7 MR. GOLDBERGER: Just put it on mute, please.
8 MR. KUVIN: You can probably turn the volume
9 down; it won't effect her mic, I would imagine.
10 MR. GOLDBERGER: Good idea. Okay.
11 BY MR. KUVIN:
12 Q. Mr. Epstein, is your date of birth,
13
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Race is White?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. You are male?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Hair is gray?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Eyes are blue?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Height is 6-foot tall?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. Weight is 180 pounds?
0022
EFTA01158524
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Mr. Epstein, on January 30th of 2008, isn't it
3 true that you pled guilty to procuring a person under
4 the age of 18 for prostitution?
5 A. No.
6 Q. You did not plead guilty?
7 A. You asked me -- do you want to repeat it?
8 Q. Did you plead guilty to procuring a person
9 under the age of 18 for prostitution?
10 A. On what date?
11 Q. Regardless of the date, did you plead guilty
12 to procuring a person under the age of 18 for
13 prostitution?
14 MR. GOLDBERGER: Do you need to take a break?
15 MR. KUVIN: I'm sorry, what are we doing?
16 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'm taking a break to talk to
17 my client.
18 MR. KUVIN: For what reason?
19 MR. GOLDBERGER: Whether we have to invoke a
20 privilege or not.
21 MR. KUVIN: Okay.
22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at
23 10:10.
24 (A brief recess was taken.)
25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the record at
0023
1 10:12.
2 BY MR. KUVIN:
3 Q. Okay. Mr. Epstein, did you plead guilty to
4 procuring a person under the age of 18 for prostitution?
5 A. I pled guilty procuring a minor, I believe,
6 for prostitution.
7 Q. When did you plead guilty to that charge?
8 A. On June the 30th.
9 Q. And did you procure a minor for prostitution
10 in compliance with that charge?
11 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
12 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
13 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
14 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
15 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
16 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
17 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
18 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
19 US Constitution.
20 Q. Okay. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 1 the
21 Florida Department of Law Enforcement Sexual
22 Offender/Predator Flyer.
23 MR. KUVIN: For the record, let me show that
24 to Mr. -- well, let me show that to the camera,
25 first.
0024
1 Okay. Let me know when you have it.
2 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1 was marked for
3 identification.)
4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay.
5 MR. KUVIN: Okay?
6 BY MR. KUVIN:
7 Q. All right. Let me show you this sexual
8 offender/predator flyer. Is that you, sir?
9 A. It's a photograph of me, yes.
10 Q. Okay. Is that the predator flyer for you?
11 A. No, it is not.
EFTA01158525
12 Q. Who's it for?
13 A. It's a sexual offender flyer.
14 Q. I'm sorry, I was reading the title where it
15 says "Predator Flyer." Do you see that?
16 A. It actually said "Sexual Offender/Predator"
17 because it's used for both categories. And if you'll
18 notice, the designation says sexual offender, which is
19 extremely different than sexual predator.
20 Q. What's your understanding of the difference
21 between the two?
22 A. I'm not -- I know I'm a sex -- I've been
23 registered as a sexual offender.
24 Q. Why are you a sexual offender?
25 MR. GOLDBERGER: Jeff.
0025
1 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
2 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
3 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
4 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
5 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
6 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
7 representation. Accordingly, I have to assert my
8 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the
9 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
10 MR. KUVIN: Let's go ahead and I'd like to
11 mark what you're reading from here today as Exhibit
12 2 to the deposition.
13 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 2 was marked for
14 identification.)
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. Who prepared that document for you, sir?
17 MR. GOLDBERGER: Don't answer that question,
18 Jeffrey. It's attorney-client privileged and this
19 is my work product, and we're not marking it, so...
20 MR. KUVIN: I don't think you have the right
21 to tell me what I can and can't --
22 MR. GOLDBERGER: You can mark it all you
23 want --
24 MR. KUVIN: It's been marked.
25 MR. GOLDBERGER: You can mark it all you want,
0026
1 but it's not --
2 MR. KUVIN: If you choose to --
3 MR. GOLDBERGER: It's not -- it's not being
4 admitted into evidence.
5 MR. KUVIN: Sir, please don't interrupt me.
6 Are you --
7 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'll interrupt you --
8 MR. KUVIN: Are you representing Mr. Epstein
9 in this deposition or is Mr. Pike? Because I want
10 to be clear which one of you is going to be doing
11 the talking during the deposition.
12 MR. GOLDBERGER: We both are representing
13 Mr. Epstein.
14 MR. PIKE: Let's go off the record for a
15 second.
16 MR. KUVIN: No, we're not going off the
17 record. We're staying on the record and only one
18 attorney may speak at a time.
19 So right now, I'd like you all to choose. I
20 don't mind, either one of you can inject --
21 MR. PIKE: Hold on a second.
22 MR. KUVIN: -- and represent Mr. Epstein.
EFTA01158526
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Let -- let -- let him finish.
24 Let him finish.
25 MR. KUVIN: Let me finish, please.
0027
1 Either one of you can represent Mr. Epstein,
2 but I don't want objections flying from both
3 chairs, both Mr. Epstein's criminal lawyer and his
4 civil lawyer.
5 So I'd ask you to please choose which one is
6 going to object, just like Judge Hafele has
7 required at hearings that only one attorney can
8 represent Mr. Epstein in an argument at a hearing.
9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Actually, we have two
10 different roles in this matter. I represent
11 Mr. Epstein on all criminal matters, so I'm going
12 to speak when I think it's relevant to any criminal
13 matters. And Mr. Pike represents Mr. Epstein on
14 any civil matters, and he will speak when it's
15 relevant to any civil matters.
16 BY MR. KUVIN:
17 Q. Okay. Sir, can I please have the paper back,
18 which has already been marked as Exhibit 2?
19 MR. KUVIN: Mr. Goldberger, if you choose that
20 this document is not to be produced in this case, I
21 have no objection to you sealing that document
22 until such time as Judge Hafele decides the issue
23 as to whether or not I'm allowed to mark something
24 that the witness is reading in a deposition. Is
25 that fair to you?
0028
1 MR. GOLDBERGER: You can mark anything you
2 want to mark. Go ahead and mark it, and then we'll
3 go from there.
4 MR. KUVIN: Okay, sounds good. Thank you very
5 much.
6 BY MR. KUVIN:
7 Q. Okay, sir. What I've marked as Exhibit 2, did
8 you prepare that document?
9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client.
10 THE WITNESS: Attorney-client privilege.
11 BY MR. KUVIN:
12 Q. Sir, you are reading from a document, are you
13 not, when I ask you certain questions?
14 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client.
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. The document that you're reading from is
17 Exhibit 2 that's in front of you right now.
18 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client.
19 BY MR. KUVIN:
20 Q. Why do you feel a need to read from a document
21 with respect to the issues of whether or not you have a
22 5th Amendment right?
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client.
24 BY MR. KUVIN:
25 Q. Sir, with respect to the last questions I was
0029
1 asking you about, the difference between a sexual
2 offender and a sexual predator, when Mr. Goldberg piped
3 up and said your --
4 MR. GOLDBERGER: Goldberger. Goldberger.
5 BY MR. KUVIN:
6 Q. -- I'm sorry, Mr. Goldberger said your name in
7 order to clue you in to object on 5th Amendment
EFTA01158527
8 grounds --
9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Form.
10 BY MR. KUVIN:
11 Q. -- did you feel a need to respond at that
12 point?
13 MR. PIKE: Object to the form.
14 MR. GOLDBERGER: The invocation of 5th
15 Amendment privileges is going to be decided by me,
16 as Mr. Epstein's criminal counsel. I will make
17 that decision.
18 MR. KUVIN: Okay. I would just like to note
19 for the record that that's improper. That's not
20 what the case law says, and we'll take that up --
21 MR. GOLDBERGER: Fair enough.
22 MR. KUVIN: -- issue with Judge Hafele?
23 BY MR. KUVIN:
24 Q. All right, sir. Do you consider yourself a
25 sexual offender or a sexual predator, which one?
0030
1 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
2 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
3 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
4 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
5 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
6 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
7 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
8 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
9 US Constitution.
10 Q. Sir, do you like having things inserted in
11 your anus for sexual gratification?
12 MR. PIKE: Objection, argumentative,
13 harassing.
14 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
15 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
16 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
17 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
18 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
19 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
20 representation.
21 BY MR. KUVIN:
22 Q. Do you live at 35 --
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Hold on.
24 THE WITNESS: Excuse me, let me finish. Is
25 that fair.
0031
1 BY MR. KUVIN:
2 Q. Absolutely. I certainly want you to finish.
3 A. Accordingly, I assert my federal
4 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and
5 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
6 Q. Sir, do you live at 358 El Brillo Way, Palm
7 Beach, Florida?
8 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
9 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
10 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
11 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
12 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
13 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
14 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional right as
15 guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US
16 Constitution.
17 Q. I noticed that Mr. Goldberger shook his head
18 when I asked you where you lived. Do you have a problem
EFTA01158528
19 letting us know where you live?
20 I'm trying to understand why that issue is
21 protected by the 5th Amendment, given the fact that
22 you're required to live at that address pursuant to the
23 sexual offender flyer and pursuant to the Court's order
24 convicting you based on your guilty plea.
25 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative.
0032
1 THE WITNESS: Do you want to repeat the
2 question?
3 BY MR. KUVIN:
4 Q. Sure. Did the Court require you to stay at
5 358 El Brillo Way on Palm Beach --
6 (Interruption in the proceedings.)
7 BY MR. KUVIN:
8 Q. Sir, did the Court require you to stay at 358
9 El Brillo Way, Palm Beach, Florida subsequent to you
10 being released from prison?
11 MR. PIKE: Form.
12 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
13 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
14 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
15 I cannot provide any answers to questions relevant
16 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
17 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
18 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal
19 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th,
20 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
21 BY MR. KUVIN:
22 Q. Let's go ahead and mark as Exhibit 3 a nice
23 photo of your home.
24 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 3 was marked for
25 identification.)
0033
1 BY MR. KUVIN:
2 Q. Okay. Let's get this for the camera, if I
3 could. Okay.
4 All right. I'm going to show you what I've
5 marked as Exhibit 3. Is that a photograph of your home,
6 sir, at 358 El Brillo Way?
7 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
8 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
9 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
10 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
11 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
12 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
13 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
14 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
15 US Constitution.
16 Q. I had asked you before whether or not you
17 liked things inserted in your anus for sexual
18 gratification, and I'd like to go back to that for a
19 moment, if I could.
20 Have you read the police report, incident
21 report, on your arrest?
22 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing.
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client work product.
24 BY MR. KUVIN:
25 Q. Sir, according to the report, there was a
0034
1 purple item retrieved from your trash at 358 El Brillo
2 Way that appeared to be a device known as a jelly anal
3 wand. Have you ever heard of something like that?
EFTA01158529
4 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing.
5 Same objections, attorney-client work product.
6 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
7 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
8 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
9 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
10 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
11 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
12 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal
13 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th
14 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. Outside of your home at 358 El Brillo Way was
17 also recovered a 3-inch purple-sized finger -- I'm
18 sorry, a 3-inch purple finger-sized object which had a
19 broken end, which is apparently a sexual toy similar --
20 similar to a cyclone vibrator possibly used for rectal
21 gratification.
22 Do you know what a cyclone vibrator is?
23 A. No.
24 MR. PIKE: Form, harassing.
25 THE WITNESS: No, but I do know that that
0035
1 MR. PIKE: Same objections.
2 THE WITNESS: -- broken purple object turned
3 out to be, later on, described as a salad fork from
4 the kitchen, strictly something that had been
5 broken in the dishwasher and then reported it in a
6 report obviously inaccurately.
7 BY MR. KUVIN:
8 Q. Okay. So the broken --
9 A. Salad fork, nothing more than a broken salad
10 fork, correct.
11 Q. So the 3-inch purple finger-sized object was a
12 salad fork?
13 A. Was a broken handle of a salad fork. Yes, the
14 question has been asked and answered, I believe.
15 Q. Okay. When did you see that?
16 MR. PIKE: Form.
17 THE WITNESS: See what?
18 BY MR. KUVIN:
19 Q. Well, you called --
20 A. See that. What's the that?
21 Q. You called it a salad fork.
22 When did you see the salad fork after the
23 police had taken it into custody?
24 MR. PIKE: Form.
25 THE WITNESS: I did not see the salad fork,
0036
1 nor did I represent that I did see the salad fork.
2 BY MR. KUVIN:
3 Q. Okay. So you have no idea what it was that
4 the police took out of the trash?
5 A. The police --
6 MR. PIKE: Form.
7 THE WITNESS: -- filed a later report saying
8 it was a salad fork, I believe.
9 BY MR. KUVIN:
10 Q. You never saw that piece, did you?
11 A. No.
12 Q. You have no idea what it was that they took
13 out of there?
14 MR. PIKE: Form.
EFTA01158530
15 THE WITNESS: I just said the police said it
16 was a salad fork, a mere salad fork misrepresented
17 in that police report, as many things have been, it
18 seems.
19 BY MR. KUVIN:
20 Q. Did they misrepresent the jelly anal wand?
21 A. I've --
22 MR. PIKE: Form.
23 THE WITNESS: -- never heard of that before.
24 BY MR. KUVIN:
25 Q. Have you used vibrators that you've placed in
0037
1 your anus?
2 MR. PIKE: Form, objection, harassing.
3 THE WITNESS: No.
4 BY MR. KUVIN:
5 Q. You never placed anything like a vibrator in
6 your anus?
7 MR. PIKE: Same objections.
8 THE WITNESS: No.
9 BY MR. KUVIN:
10 Q. There was in a dresser of an armoire of your
11 home
12 MR. KUVIN: This is page 44, Counsel. I'd
13 like to reference it.
14 THE WITNESS: Is that marked as an exhibit? I
15 don't know what he's reading.
16 MR. PIKE: It's not marked as an exhibit.
17 THE WITNESS: The police report?
18 BY MR. KUVIN:
19 Q. No, it's not. It's my work product, much like
20 how Mr. Goldberger felt that your 5th Amendment was your
21 work product.
22 MR. KUVIN: So let's mark this as exhibit
23 what are we up to, 4?
24 COURT REPORTER: 4.
25
0038
1 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 4 was marked for
2 identification.)
3 MR. KUVIN: Okay. All right. If we could,
4 just get a shot of that for me.
5 Okay, thank you.
6 BY MR. KUVIN:
7 Q. According to the incident report, in a room of
8 your home --
9 MR. PIKE: What page are you on, Counsel?
10 MR. KUVIN: Page 44.
11 MR. PIKE: What paragraph?
12 MR. KUVIN: Line 4.
13 BY MR. KUVIN:
14 Q. -- in a dresser armoire was located a bottle
15 of peach-flavored Joy Jelly, parenthetically a sexual
16 lubricant.
17 I have here something called Joy Jelly. I
18 even have peach. Do you know what that is?
19 MR. PIKE: Form objection, harassing.
20 MR. GOLDBERGER: Can you just clarify the
21 question as to where you got that? Did that come
22 from your home or from somewhere else, Mr. Kuvin?
23 MR. KUVIN: I don't think that's relevant.
24 MR. GOLDBERGER: Just curious as to what
25 you're -- you've made a big point to identify this,
EFTA01158531
0039
1 this exhibit, and show it to the camera. So if my
2 client is going to answer the question, I'd like to
3 know whether it came from your home or from --
4 whether you bought it or where it came from just so
5 he can -- just so he can accurately answer the
6 question should he choose to want to answer it.
7 MR. KUVIN: Well, he can make the choice
8 whether he wants to answer it or not.
9 MR. GOLDBERGER: All right.
10 BY MR. KUVIN:
11 Q. Do you know what that is?
12 MR. PIKE: Form objection, improper
13 hypothetical.
14 THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question.
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. Do you know what Exhibit 4 is?
17 A. You've just described it. I have no knowledge
18 but what you've just described.
19 Q. You don't know what that's used for?
20 MR. PIKE: Form objection, harassing.
21 THE WITNESS: I've heard what you said it's
22 used for. I've never seen it before.
23 BY MR. KUVIN:
24 Q. Do you know what that, right there, Exhibit 4,
25 this peach-flavored --
0040
1 A. You've asked me that question already.
2 Q. -- Joy Jelly, do you know what it's used for?
3 MR. PIKE: Asked and answered.
4 BY MR. KUVIN:
5 Q. Not this bottle, but Joy Jelly, do you know
6 what it's used for?
7 MR. PIKE: Same objection, harassing, asked
8 and answered.
9 BY MR. KUVIN:
10 Q. You can answer.
11 A. I've already told you.
12 Q. You still haven't answered the question.
13 MR. PIKE: Counsel, he answered the question.
14 It's been asked and answered twice.
15 MR. GOLDBERGER: Let's get a read-back on
16 this.
17 MR. KUVIN: Sure. I'd like to hear the
18 answer.
19 MR. GOLDBERGER: From the start of the line of
20 questioning.
21 COURT REPORTER: From the first time it was
22 asked?
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Yes, please.
24 (A portion of the record was read by the
25 reporter.)
0041
1 MR. GOLDBERGER: That's all I need to hear,
2 thanks.
3 BY MR. KUVIN:
4 Q. Do you know what Joy Jelly is used for?
5 A. I've heard what you've just described. I have
6 no independent knowledge.
7 Q. You've never used Joy Jelly?
8 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
9 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
10 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
EFTA01158532
11 provide an answer to any questions relevant to this
12 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
13 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
14 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
15 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
16 US Constitution.
17 Q. You agree with me that Joy Jelly is a sexual
18 lubricant that's used on sexual devices like vibrators
19 and anal jelly wands?
20 MR. PIKE: Same objections.
21 THE WITNESS: I have no knowledge of that.
22 BY MR. KUVIN:
23 Q. Do you agree that Joy Jelly is a sexual
24 lubricant?
25 A. I have no knowledge of that.
0042
1 MR. PIKE: Form, lack of predicate.
2 BY MR. KUVIN:
3 Q. Have you used it?
4 MR. PIKE: Same objection, lack of predicate,
5 no foundation, harassing.
6 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
7 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
8 at this time, I cannot provide any questions [sic]
9 relevant to the lawsuit. I must accept counsels'
10 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to
11 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my
12 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the
13 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
14 BY MR. KUVIN:
15 Q. Would you agree with the description that you
16 are a pervert?
17 MR. PIKE: Same objection, harassing,
18 argumentative.
19 BY MR. KUVIN:
20 Q. You can answer. It's either a simple yes or
21 no.
22 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
23 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
24 present time, my attorneys have counseled me that I
25 cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this
0043
1 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
2 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
3 Accordingly, I must assert my federal constitutional
4 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment
5 of the US Constitution.
6 Q. Have any mental health counselors diagnosed
7 you as a sexual deviant?
8 MR. PIKE: Again, form --
9 THE WITNESS: I don't believe so.
10 MR. PIKE: -- work product.
11 BY MR. KUVIN:
12 Q. Do you believe you're a sexual deviant?
13 MR. PIKE: Form.
14 THE WITNESS: No, I do not.
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. Do you have sex with minors?
17 MR. PIKE: Same objection, form, 5th
18 Amendment.
19 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
20 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
21 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
EFTA01158533
22 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
23 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
24 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
25 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal
0044
1 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th
2 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
3 BY MR. KUVIN:
4 Q. Would you agree that you have a psychological
5 disorder with respect to your sexual preferences?
6 MR. PIKE: Same objection.
7 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
8 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however
9 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
10 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
11 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
12 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
13 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal
14 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th,
15 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
16 BY MR. KUVIN:
17 Q. Have you had sex with transsexuals?
18 MR. PIKE: Same objection.
19 THE WITNESS: No.
20 BY MR. KUVIN:
21 Q. Do you know a Ms. Cordero?
22 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
23 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
24 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
25 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
0045
1 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
2 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
3 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
4 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments to the
5 US Constitution.
6 Q. Do you know a Ms.
7 MR. PIKE: Same objection.
a THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
9 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
10 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
11 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
12 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
13 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
14 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal
15 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th,
16 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
17 BY MR. KUVIN:
18 Q. When do you intend to fully respond?
19 MR. PIKE: Same objection. In addition, work
20 product, attorney-client.
21 BY MR. KUVIN:
22 Q. I'm sorry, I misquoted you. You said I --
23 you've repeated now numerous times, "I fully intend to
24 respond," so let me rephrase my question.
25 When do you fully intend to respond?
0046
1 MR. PIKE: Same objection, attorney-client,
2 work product.
3 MR. KUVIN: Are you telling him not to answer?
4 MR. PIKE: It's attorney-client, work product.
5 I'm instructing him not to answer.
6 BY MR. KUVIN:
EFTA01158534
7 Q. Okay. So despite the fact that you're reading
8 this canned statement over and over to my questions, you
9 don't want to answer any questions about the written
10 statement; isn't that true?
11 MR. PIKE: Same objection, attorney-client,
12 work product. I'm instructing the witness not to
13 answer.
14 BY MR. KUVIN:
15 Q. You don't ever fully intend to respond to
16 anything, do you?
17 MR. PIKE: Same objection.
18 BY MR. KUVIN:
19 Q. Or would you like to?
20 MR. PIKE: Same objection. Now we're getting
21 borderline harassing and argumentative.
22 I think you should move on to -- certainly you
23 didn't come here to be argumentative and harassing
24 all day, Mr. Kuvin, so I would hope that you would
25 move on to another topic.
0047
1 THE WITNESS: Jack?
2 MR. KUVIN: I'm just looking.
3 MR. GOLDBERGER: He can look at it all he
4 wants.
5 Just ask for permission next time, if you want
6 to, because it is something that I gave to my
7 client. So when you want to look -- I've let you
8 mark it. If you want to look at it, just ask my
9 permission to do so, okay?
10 MR. KUVIN: Sure.
11 MR. GOLDBERGER: Is that all right with you?
12 MR. KUVIN: Perfectly fine.
13 MR. GOLDBERGER: Thanks.
14 BY MR. KUVIN:
15 Q. Your typed paper there says that you cannot
16 provide answers. Why not?
17 MR. PIKE: Attorney-client, work product. I'm
18 instructing him not to answer. It's my work
19 product.
20 MR. KUVIN: Are you stipulating that you
21 drafted the document we've marked as Exhibit 2?
22 MR. GOLDBERGER: No such stipulation.
23 MR. PIKE: No such stipulation.
24 MR. KUVIN: Well, if it's work product --
25 MR. PIKE: It's attorney-client, work product.
0048
1 MR. KUVIN: -- I just wanted to clarify.
2 BY MR. KUVIN:
3 Q. Did you have a sexual relationship with
4 when she still had a penis?
5 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 5th Amendment.
6 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
7 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
8 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
9 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
10 to this lawsuit. I must -- I must accept this
11 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to
12 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my
13 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the
14 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. Do you know
17 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
EFTA01158535
18 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
19 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
20 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
21 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
22 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
23 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
24 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
25 US Constitution.
0049
1 Q. You agree, do you not, that is,
2 or as least was, your personal assistant for many years?
3 MR. PIKE: Same objection.
4 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
5 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
6 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
7 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
8 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
9 losing --
10 MR. GOLDBERGER: Why don't you -- why don't
11 you wait until he's listening, so he...
12 MR. KUVIN: Oh, I don't need to listen. I've
13 heard it many times.
14 MR. GOLDBERGER: No, we're going to wait.
15 We're going to wait.
16 MR. KUVIN: Oh, no, you don't have to wait.
17 MR. GOLDBERGER: Oh, no, we will.
18 BY MR. KUVIN:
19 Q. Okay. I'm sorry, are you done?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Oh, please finish.
22 A. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
23 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
24 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
25 as guaranteed by the 5th...
0050
1 Q. Okay. Go ahead. Don't wait for me.
2 A. -- 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US
3 Constitution.
4 Q. Okay. You agree, would you not, that
5 is currently dating Story Kowles, the
6 gentleman who is sitting here in the room working for
7 Mr. Goldberger at your deposition?
8 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
9 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
10 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
11 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
12 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my
13 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
14 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
15 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
16 US Constitution.
17 Q. Do you know how long has been
18 dating Mr. Story Kowles?
19 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
20 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
21 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
22 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
23 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
24 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
25 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional right as
0051
1 guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US
2 Constitution.
EFTA01158536
3 Q. Did you introduce to Story Kowles?
4 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
5 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
6 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
7 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
8 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
9 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
10 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
11 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
12 US Constitution.
13 Q. Are you aware that one of the State
14 prosecutors, Dahlia Weiss, who was working on your
15 criminal case, was also married to a lawyer working for
16 Mr. Goldberger here?
17 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client, work
18 product.
19 Don't answer.
20 MR. KUVIN: I'm sorry, work product?
21 Somebody's marriage?
22 MR. GOLDBERGER: Uh-huh. Don't answer it.
23 MR. KUVIN: I'd like an explanation as to how
24 someone's marriage is work product on the record so
25 I can be clear to determine whether I need to bring
0052
1 that question up in front of Judge Hafele.
2 MR. PIKE: The rules do not require for
3 speaking objections, and we're going to limit
4 ourself to form and the appropriate objections
5 thereafter, which have been asserted. So there
6 does not need to be anything in the record. Should
7 you wish to file a motion, you can do so.
8 MR. KUVIN: Well, before I file such motion, I
9 think the rules also dictate that I can request an
10 explanation, which I'm doing.
11 MR. PIKE: We've already objected.
12 MR. KUVIN: Okay.
13 BY MR. KUVIN:
14 Q. Do you know Dahlia Weiss?
15 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
16 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
17 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
18 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
19 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
20 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
21 MR. GOLDBERGER: Actually, I'll let you answer
22 the question as asked, as to do you know Dahlia
23 Weiss.
24 THE WITNESS: No, I do not.
25
0053
1 BY MR. KUVIN:
2 Q. With respect to Mr. Goldberger, your criminal
3 attorney, did you buy him a brand new BMW?
4 MR. GOLDBERGER: Don't.
5 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
6 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
7 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
8 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
9 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
10 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
11 representation.
12 MR. GOLDBERGER: It's also attorney-client and
13 work product as to my fees.
EFTA01158537
14 THE WITNESS: Accordingly, I assert my federal
15 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th
16 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
17 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'm sorry, it's also
18 attorney-client work product as to my fees.
19 BY MR. KUVIN:
20 Q. Have you bought any new cars for your civil
21 attorneys, like Mr. Critton?
22 MR. PIKE: Objection, relevance.
23 BY MR. KUVIN:
24 Q. Robert Critton.
25 MR. PIKE: Argumentative, harassing, not
0054
1 reasonably calculated to lead to admissible
2 evidence in this case.
3 THE WITNESS: No.
4 BY MR. KUVIN:
5 Q. It's a shame.
6 MR. GOLDBERGER: What was that?
7 THE WITNESS: Shame, he said.
8 BY MR. KUVIN:
9 Q. Why not?
10 MR. PIKE: Objection, relevance. I'm going to
11 instruct him not to answer the question. It's
12 argumentative.
13 BY MR. KUVIN:
14 Q. Is there anyone else that you know that is
15 dating staff at Mr. Goldberger's office other than
16 and Ms. Wife -- Ms. Weiss?
17 MR. PIKE: Objection, form.
18 MR. GOLDBERGER: Whoa, whoa, whoa. First of
19 all, let's get the question right. and
20 Ms. Weiss are dating each other; is that the
21 question?
22 MR. KUVIN: No, I'll clarify.
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Thank you.
24 BY MR. KUVIN:
25 Q. Is there anyone else that you know that's
0055
1 dating staff at Mr. Goldberger's office other than
2 , or married to staff working for
3 Mr. Goldberger other than Ms. Weiss?
4 MR. GOLDBERGER: There are people --
5 MR. PIKE: Objection, form, multiple,
6 compound, vague, irrelevant, not reasonably
7 calculated to lead to admissible evidence.
8 MR. GOLDBERGER: Do you understand the
9 question? The question as asked: Do you know
10 anyone who dates anyone at my office?
11 THE WITNESS: This is why -- this is why we're
12 here?
13 MR. GOLDBERGER: I mean, do you know -- the
14 question is: Do you know if anyone in my office
15 dates anybody?
16 THE WITNESS: No, I do not.
17 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay.
18 BY MR. KUVIN:
19 Q. That's a good point. I'm glad you made it.
20 No, you know why we're here? We're here to
21 ask you whether or not you had any sexual contact with
22 III. Did you?
23 A. Who?
24 Q. With a young girl that was 14 years old.
EFTA01158538
25 A. What was her name?
0056
1 Q. ION.
2 A. Can you refresh my recollection who she -- do
3 you have anything to show me, something that might --
4 Q. I do, and I will pursuant to the
5 confidentiality that we've previously discussed in this
6 case.
7 A. So tell me who it is that you're representing?
a Q. I will do that.
9 Have you had sex with numerous girls underage?
10 A. You've asked me if this -- which question --
11 MR. GOLDBERGER: Wait, the question was --
12
1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 15th JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA
2
CASE No. 502008CA037319XXXXMB AB
3
4
5 =.,
6 Plaintiff,
7
- vs-
8
9 JEFFREY EPSTEIN,
10 Defendant.
11
12
13 CONTINUED DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN
14 VOLUME II
15
16 Thursday, October 8, 2009
17
18 10:07 - 1:03 p.m.
19
20 250 South Australian Avenue
Suite 1400
21 West Palm Beach,Florida 33401
22
23 Reported By:
Jeana Ricciuti, RPR, FPR, CLR
24 Notary Public, State of Florida
Prose Court Reporting Agency, Inc.
25
0017
1 APPEARANCES:
2 On behalf of the Plaintiff:
SPENCER T. KUVIN, ESQUIRE
3 ADAM LANGINO, ESQUIRE
LEOPOLD KUVIN, P.A.
4 2295 PGA Boulevard
Suite 200
5 Palm Beach Gardens, Florida 33410
Phone:
6
On behalf of IIM. and III. and Jane Doe in Case No.
7 80893:
CARA L. HOLMES, ESQUIRE
8 ROTHSTEIN, ROSENFELDT & ADLER
401 East Las Olas Boulevard
9 Suite 1650
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301
10 Phone:
11 On behalf of Plaintiff Jane Doe in Case No. 80591 and
80656 via telephone:
12 KATHERINE W. EZELL, ESQUIRE
PODHURST ORSECK, P.A.
13 25 West Flagler Street
Miami, Florida 33130
14 Phone:
15 On behalf of the Defendant:
JACK GOLDBERGER, ESQUIRE
16 STORY KOWLES, PARALEGAL
ATTERBURY, GOLDBERGER & WEISS, P.A.
EFTA01158522
17 250 South Australian Avenue
Suite 1400
18 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
Phone:
19
MICHAEL J. PIKE, ESQUIRE
20 BURMAN, CRITTON, LUTTIER & COLEMAN, P.A.
303 Banyan Boulevard
21 Suite 400
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
22 Phone:
23 ALSO PRESENT:
24 DAN DOSKEY, VIDEOGRAPHER
VISUAL EVIDENCE, INC.
25
0018
1
INDEX
2
3 WITNESS: DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
4 JEFFREY EPSTEIN
5 BY MR. KUVIN 21
6
7
8
EXHIBITS
9
10 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
11 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 1 FDLE SEXUAL 24
OFFENDER/PREDATOR FLYER
12 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 2 STATEMENT 25
PLAINTIFF'S EX. 3 PHOTOGRAPH OF HOME 33
13 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 4 BOTTLE OF JOY JELLY 38
PLAINTIFF'S EX. 5 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 129
14 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 6 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 129
PLAINTIFF'S EX. 7 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 131
15 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 8 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 132
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
0019
1 PROCEEDINGS
2
3 Deposition taken before Jeana Ricciuti, Registered
4 Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for the
5 State of Florida at Large, in the above cause.
6
7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the video record.
8 This is the 8th day of October, 2009, and the time
9 it approximately 10:07 a.m.
10 This is the continuation of the videotaped
11 deposition of Jeffrey Epstein in the matter of
12 versus Epstein. This deposition is being held at
13 250 South Australian Avenue, No. 1400 in West Palm
14 Beach, Florida.
15 My name is Dan Doskey I'm the videographer
EFTA01158523
16 representing Visual Evidence, Incorporated.
17 Would the attorneys present please announce
18 their appearances for the record?
19 MR. KUVIN: Spencer Kuvin and Adam Langino on
20 behalf of the Plaintiff, §§§.
21 MS. HOLMES: Cara Holmes for III.
22 MR. PIKE: Michael Pike on behalf of
23 Jeffrey Epstein.
24 MR. GOLDBERGER: And Jack Goldberger on behalf
25 of Jeffrey Epstein.
0020
1 Kathy, do you want to identify yourself?
2 Kathy, are you there?
3 MS. EZELL: Yes.
4 MR. PIKE: She puts it on mute every once in a
5 while.
6 MR. GOLDBERGER: Hey, Kathy, are you there?
7 MS. EZELL: Yes.
8 MR. GOLDBERGER: Just -- we're just
9 identifying everyone who's on this thing. Can you
10 just identify yourself?
11 MS. EZELL: Yes. It's Kathy Ezell. I'm
12 sorry, Kathy Ezell is here.
13 - - -
14 Thereupon,
15 (JEFFREY EPSTEIN)
16 having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was examined
17 and testified as follows:
18 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am.
19 MR. PIKE: Pull that back, please.
20 MR. KUVIN: Back?
21 MR. PIKE: Yeah, not on the video. I want to
22 make sure it's not on the video.
23 MR. KUVIN: We're good? Thank you.
24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It's not.
25 DIRECT EXAMINATION
0021
1 BY MR. KUVIN:
2 Q. Could you give us your name, sir, please.
3 A. Jeffrey Epstein.
4 MR. GOLDBERGER: Kathy, you've got to put it
5 on mute. Kath -- Kathy?
6 MS. EZELL: Give me one second.
7 MR. GOLDBERGER: Just put it on mute, please.
8 MR. KUVIN: You can probably turn the volume
9 down; it won't effect her mic, I would imagine.
10 MR. GOLDBERGER: Good idea. Okay.
11 BY MR. KUVIN:
12 Q. Mr. Epstein, is your date of birth,
13
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Race is White?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. You are male?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Hair is gray?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Eyes are blue?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Height is 6-foot tall?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. Weight is 180 pounds?
0022
EFTA01158524
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Mr. Epstein, on January 30th of 2008, isn't it
3 true that you pled guilty to procuring a person under
4 the age of 18 for prostitution?
5 A. No.
6 Q. You did not plead guilty?
7 A. You asked me -- do you want to repeat it?
8 Q. Did you plead guilty to procuring a person
9 under the age of 18 for prostitution?
10 A. On what date?
11 Q. Regardless of the date, did you plead guilty
12 to procuring a person under the age of 18 for
13 prostitution?
14 MR. GOLDBERGER: Do you need to take a break?
15 MR. KUVIN: I'm sorry, what are we doing?
16 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'm taking a break to talk to
17 my client.
18 MR. KUVIN: For what reason?
19 MR. GOLDBERGER: Whether we have to invoke a
20 privilege or not.
21 MR. KUVIN: Okay.
22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at
23 10:10.
24 (A brief recess was taken.)
25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the record at
0023
1 10:12.
2 BY MR. KUVIN:
3 Q. Okay. Mr. Epstein, did you plead guilty to
4 procuring a person under the age of 18 for prostitution?
5 A. I pled guilty procuring a minor, I believe,
6 for prostitution.
7 Q. When did you plead guilty to that charge?
8 A. On June the 30th.
9 Q. And did you procure a minor for prostitution
10 in compliance with that charge?
11 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
12 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
13 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
14 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
15 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
16 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
17 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
18 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
19 US Constitution.
20 Q. Okay. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 1 the
21 Florida Department of Law Enforcement Sexual
22 Offender/Predator Flyer.
23 MR. KUVIN: For the record, let me show that
24 to Mr. -- well, let me show that to the camera,
25 first.
0024
1 Okay. Let me know when you have it.
2 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1 was marked for
3 identification.)
4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay.
5 MR. KUVIN: Okay?
6 BY MR. KUVIN:
7 Q. All right. Let me show you this sexual
8 offender/predator flyer. Is that you, sir?
9 A. It's a photograph of me, yes.
10 Q. Okay. Is that the predator flyer for you?
11 A. No, it is not.
EFTA01158525
12 Q. Who's it for?
13 A. It's a sexual offender flyer.
14 Q. I'm sorry, I was reading the title where it
15 says "Predator Flyer." Do you see that?
16 A. It actually said "Sexual Offender/Predator"
17 because it's used for both categories. And if you'll
18 notice, the designation says sexual offender, which is
19 extremely different than sexual predator.
20 Q. What's your understanding of the difference
21 between the two?
22 A. I'm not -- I know I'm a sex -- I've been
23 registered as a sexual offender.
24 Q. Why are you a sexual offender?
25 MR. GOLDBERGER: Jeff.
0025
1 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
2 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
3 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
4 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
5 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
6 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
7 representation. Accordingly, I have to assert my
8 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the
9 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
10 MR. KUVIN: Let's go ahead and I'd like to
11 mark what you're reading from here today as Exhibit
12 2 to the deposition.
13 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 2 was marked for
14 identification.)
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. Who prepared that document for you, sir?
17 MR. GOLDBERGER: Don't answer that question,
18 Jeffrey. It's attorney-client privileged and this
19 is my work product, and we're not marking it, so...
20 MR. KUVIN: I don't think you have the right
21 to tell me what I can and can't --
22 MR. GOLDBERGER: You can mark it all you
23 want --
24 MR. KUVIN: It's been marked.
25 MR. GOLDBERGER: You can mark it all you want,
0026
1 but it's not --
2 MR. KUVIN: If you choose to --
3 MR. GOLDBERGER: It's not -- it's not being
4 admitted into evidence.
5 MR. KUVIN: Sir, please don't interrupt me.
6 Are you --
7 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'll interrupt you --
8 MR. KUVIN: Are you representing Mr. Epstein
9 in this deposition or is Mr. Pike? Because I want
10 to be clear which one of you is going to be doing
11 the talking during the deposition.
12 MR. GOLDBERGER: We both are representing
13 Mr. Epstein.
14 MR. PIKE: Let's go off the record for a
15 second.
16 MR. KUVIN: No, we're not going off the
17 record. We're staying on the record and only one
18 attorney may speak at a time.
19 So right now, I'd like you all to choose. I
20 don't mind, either one of you can inject --
21 MR. PIKE: Hold on a second.
22 MR. KUVIN: -- and represent Mr. Epstein.
EFTA01158526
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Let -- let -- let him finish.
24 Let him finish.
25 MR. KUVIN: Let me finish, please.
0027
1 Either one of you can represent Mr. Epstein,
2 but I don't want objections flying from both
3 chairs, both Mr. Epstein's criminal lawyer and his
4 civil lawyer.
5 So I'd ask you to please choose which one is
6 going to object, just like Judge Hafele has
7 required at hearings that only one attorney can
8 represent Mr. Epstein in an argument at a hearing.
9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Actually, we have two
10 different roles in this matter. I represent
11 Mr. Epstein on all criminal matters, so I'm going
12 to speak when I think it's relevant to any criminal
13 matters. And Mr. Pike represents Mr. Epstein on
14 any civil matters, and he will speak when it's
15 relevant to any civil matters.
16 BY MR. KUVIN:
17 Q. Okay. Sir, can I please have the paper back,
18 which has already been marked as Exhibit 2?
19 MR. KUVIN: Mr. Goldberger, if you choose that
20 this document is not to be produced in this case, I
21 have no objection to you sealing that document
22 until such time as Judge Hafele decides the issue
23 as to whether or not I'm allowed to mark something
24 that the witness is reading in a deposition. Is
25 that fair to you?
0028
1 MR. GOLDBERGER: You can mark anything you
2 want to mark. Go ahead and mark it, and then we'll
3 go from there.
4 MR. KUVIN: Okay, sounds good. Thank you very
5 much.
6 BY MR. KUVIN:
7 Q. Okay, sir. What I've marked as Exhibit 2, did
8 you prepare that document?
9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client.
10 THE WITNESS: Attorney-client privilege.
11 BY MR. KUVIN:
12 Q. Sir, you are reading from a document, are you
13 not, when I ask you certain questions?
14 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client.
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. The document that you're reading from is
17 Exhibit 2 that's in front of you right now.
18 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client.
19 BY MR. KUVIN:
20 Q. Why do you feel a need to read from a document
21 with respect to the issues of whether or not you have a
22 5th Amendment right?
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client.
24 BY MR. KUVIN:
25 Q. Sir, with respect to the last questions I was
0029
1 asking you about, the difference between a sexual
2 offender and a sexual predator, when Mr. Goldberg piped
3 up and said your --
4 MR. GOLDBERGER: Goldberger. Goldberger.
5 BY MR. KUVIN:
6 Q. -- I'm sorry, Mr. Goldberger said your name in
7 order to clue you in to object on 5th Amendment
EFTA01158527
8 grounds --
9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Form.
10 BY MR. KUVIN:
11 Q. -- did you feel a need to respond at that
12 point?
13 MR. PIKE: Object to the form.
14 MR. GOLDBERGER: The invocation of 5th
15 Amendment privileges is going to be decided by me,
16 as Mr. Epstein's criminal counsel. I will make
17 that decision.
18 MR. KUVIN: Okay. I would just like to note
19 for the record that that's improper. That's not
20 what the case law says, and we'll take that up --
21 MR. GOLDBERGER: Fair enough.
22 MR. KUVIN: -- issue with Judge Hafele?
23 BY MR. KUVIN:
24 Q. All right, sir. Do you consider yourself a
25 sexual offender or a sexual predator, which one?
0030
1 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
2 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
3 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
4 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
5 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
6 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
7 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
8 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
9 US Constitution.
10 Q. Sir, do you like having things inserted in
11 your anus for sexual gratification?
12 MR. PIKE: Objection, argumentative,
13 harassing.
14 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
15 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
16 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
17 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
18 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
19 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
20 representation.
21 BY MR. KUVIN:
22 Q. Do you live at 35 --
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Hold on.
24 THE WITNESS: Excuse me, let me finish. Is
25 that fair.
0031
1 BY MR. KUVIN:
2 Q. Absolutely. I certainly want you to finish.
3 A. Accordingly, I assert my federal
4 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and
5 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
6 Q. Sir, do you live at 358 El Brillo Way, Palm
7 Beach, Florida?
8 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
9 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
10 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
11 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
12 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
13 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
14 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional right as
15 guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US
16 Constitution.
17 Q. I noticed that Mr. Goldberger shook his head
18 when I asked you where you lived. Do you have a problem
EFTA01158528
19 letting us know where you live?
20 I'm trying to understand why that issue is
21 protected by the 5th Amendment, given the fact that
22 you're required to live at that address pursuant to the
23 sexual offender flyer and pursuant to the Court's order
24 convicting you based on your guilty plea.
25 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative.
0032
1 THE WITNESS: Do you want to repeat the
2 question?
3 BY MR. KUVIN:
4 Q. Sure. Did the Court require you to stay at
5 358 El Brillo Way on Palm Beach --
6 (Interruption in the proceedings.)
7 BY MR. KUVIN:
8 Q. Sir, did the Court require you to stay at 358
9 El Brillo Way, Palm Beach, Florida subsequent to you
10 being released from prison?
11 MR. PIKE: Form.
12 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
13 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
14 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
15 I cannot provide any answers to questions relevant
16 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
17 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
18 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal
19 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th,
20 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
21 BY MR. KUVIN:
22 Q. Let's go ahead and mark as Exhibit 3 a nice
23 photo of your home.
24 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 3 was marked for
25 identification.)
0033
1 BY MR. KUVIN:
2 Q. Okay. Let's get this for the camera, if I
3 could. Okay.
4 All right. I'm going to show you what I've
5 marked as Exhibit 3. Is that a photograph of your home,
6 sir, at 358 El Brillo Way?
7 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
8 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
9 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
10 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
11 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
12 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
13 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
14 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
15 US Constitution.
16 Q. I had asked you before whether or not you
17 liked things inserted in your anus for sexual
18 gratification, and I'd like to go back to that for a
19 moment, if I could.
20 Have you read the police report, incident
21 report, on your arrest?
22 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing.
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client work product.
24 BY MR. KUVIN:
25 Q. Sir, according to the report, there was a
0034
1 purple item retrieved from your trash at 358 El Brillo
2 Way that appeared to be a device known as a jelly anal
3 wand. Have you ever heard of something like that?
EFTA01158529
4 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing.
5 Same objections, attorney-client work product.
6 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
7 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
8 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
9 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
10 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
11 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
12 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal
13 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th
14 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. Outside of your home at 358 El Brillo Way was
17 also recovered a 3-inch purple-sized finger -- I'm
18 sorry, a 3-inch purple finger-sized object which had a
19 broken end, which is apparently a sexual toy similar --
20 similar to a cyclone vibrator possibly used for rectal
21 gratification.
22 Do you know what a cyclone vibrator is?
23 A. No.
24 MR. PIKE: Form, harassing.
25 THE WITNESS: No, but I do know that that
0035
1 MR. PIKE: Same objections.
2 THE WITNESS: -- broken purple object turned
3 out to be, later on, described as a salad fork from
4 the kitchen, strictly something that had been
5 broken in the dishwasher and then reported it in a
6 report obviously inaccurately.
7 BY MR. KUVIN:
8 Q. Okay. So the broken --
9 A. Salad fork, nothing more than a broken salad
10 fork, correct.
11 Q. So the 3-inch purple finger-sized object was a
12 salad fork?
13 A. Was a broken handle of a salad fork. Yes, the
14 question has been asked and answered, I believe.
15 Q. Okay. When did you see that?
16 MR. PIKE: Form.
17 THE WITNESS: See what?
18 BY MR. KUVIN:
19 Q. Well, you called --
20 A. See that. What's the that?
21 Q. You called it a salad fork.
22 When did you see the salad fork after the
23 police had taken it into custody?
24 MR. PIKE: Form.
25 THE WITNESS: I did not see the salad fork,
0036
1 nor did I represent that I did see the salad fork.
2 BY MR. KUVIN:
3 Q. Okay. So you have no idea what it was that
4 the police took out of the trash?
5 A. The police --
6 MR. PIKE: Form.
7 THE WITNESS: -- filed a later report saying
8 it was a salad fork, I believe.
9 BY MR. KUVIN:
10 Q. You never saw that piece, did you?
11 A. No.
12 Q. You have no idea what it was that they took
13 out of there?
14 MR. PIKE: Form.
EFTA01158530
15 THE WITNESS: I just said the police said it
16 was a salad fork, a mere salad fork misrepresented
17 in that police report, as many things have been, it
18 seems.
19 BY MR. KUVIN:
20 Q. Did they misrepresent the jelly anal wand?
21 A. I've --
22 MR. PIKE: Form.
23 THE WITNESS: -- never heard of that before.
24 BY MR. KUVIN:
25 Q. Have you used vibrators that you've placed in
0037
1 your anus?
2 MR. PIKE: Form, objection, harassing.
3 THE WITNESS: No.
4 BY MR. KUVIN:
5 Q. You never placed anything like a vibrator in
6 your anus?
7 MR. PIKE: Same objections.
8 THE WITNESS: No.
9 BY MR. KUVIN:
10 Q. There was in a dresser of an armoire of your
11 home
12 MR. KUVIN: This is page 44, Counsel. I'd
13 like to reference it.
14 THE WITNESS: Is that marked as an exhibit? I
15 don't know what he's reading.
16 MR. PIKE: It's not marked as an exhibit.
17 THE WITNESS: The police report?
18 BY MR. KUVIN:
19 Q. No, it's not. It's my work product, much like
20 how Mr. Goldberger felt that your 5th Amendment was your
21 work product.
22 MR. KUVIN: So let's mark this as exhibit
23 what are we up to, 4?
24 COURT REPORTER: 4.
25
0038
1 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 4 was marked for
2 identification.)
3 MR. KUVIN: Okay. All right. If we could,
4 just get a shot of that for me.
5 Okay, thank you.
6 BY MR. KUVIN:
7 Q. According to the incident report, in a room of
8 your home --
9 MR. PIKE: What page are you on, Counsel?
10 MR. KUVIN: Page 44.
11 MR. PIKE: What paragraph?
12 MR. KUVIN: Line 4.
13 BY MR. KUVIN:
14 Q. -- in a dresser armoire was located a bottle
15 of peach-flavored Joy Jelly, parenthetically a sexual
16 lubricant.
17 I have here something called Joy Jelly. I
18 even have peach. Do you know what that is?
19 MR. PIKE: Form objection, harassing.
20 MR. GOLDBERGER: Can you just clarify the
21 question as to where you got that? Did that come
22 from your home or from somewhere else, Mr. Kuvin?
23 MR. KUVIN: I don't think that's relevant.
24 MR. GOLDBERGER: Just curious as to what
25 you're -- you've made a big point to identify this,
EFTA01158531
0039
1 this exhibit, and show it to the camera. So if my
2 client is going to answer the question, I'd like to
3 know whether it came from your home or from --
4 whether you bought it or where it came from just so
5 he can -- just so he can accurately answer the
6 question should he choose to want to answer it.
7 MR. KUVIN: Well, he can make the choice
8 whether he wants to answer it or not.
9 MR. GOLDBERGER: All right.
10 BY MR. KUVIN:
11 Q. Do you know what that is?
12 MR. PIKE: Form objection, improper
13 hypothetical.
14 THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question.
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. Do you know what Exhibit 4 is?
17 A. You've just described it. I have no knowledge
18 but what you've just described.
19 Q. You don't know what that's used for?
20 MR. PIKE: Form objection, harassing.
21 THE WITNESS: I've heard what you said it's
22 used for. I've never seen it before.
23 BY MR. KUVIN:
24 Q. Do you know what that, right there, Exhibit 4,
25 this peach-flavored --
0040
1 A. You've asked me that question already.
2 Q. -- Joy Jelly, do you know what it's used for?
3 MR. PIKE: Asked and answered.
4 BY MR. KUVIN:
5 Q. Not this bottle, but Joy Jelly, do you know
6 what it's used for?
7 MR. PIKE: Same objection, harassing, asked
8 and answered.
9 BY MR. KUVIN:
10 Q. You can answer.
11 A. I've already told you.
12 Q. You still haven't answered the question.
13 MR. PIKE: Counsel, he answered the question.
14 It's been asked and answered twice.
15 MR. GOLDBERGER: Let's get a read-back on
16 this.
17 MR. KUVIN: Sure. I'd like to hear the
18 answer.
19 MR. GOLDBERGER: From the start of the line of
20 questioning.
21 COURT REPORTER: From the first time it was
22 asked?
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Yes, please.
24 (A portion of the record was read by the
25 reporter.)
0041
1 MR. GOLDBERGER: That's all I need to hear,
2 thanks.
3 BY MR. KUVIN:
4 Q. Do you know what Joy Jelly is used for?
5 A. I've heard what you've just described. I have
6 no independent knowledge.
7 Q. You've never used Joy Jelly?
8 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
9 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
10 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
EFTA01158532
11 provide an answer to any questions relevant to this
12 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
13 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
14 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
15 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
16 US Constitution.
17 Q. You agree with me that Joy Jelly is a sexual
18 lubricant that's used on sexual devices like vibrators
19 and anal jelly wands?
20 MR. PIKE: Same objections.
21 THE WITNESS: I have no knowledge of that.
22 BY MR. KUVIN:
23 Q. Do you agree that Joy Jelly is a sexual
24 lubricant?
25 A. I have no knowledge of that.
0042
1 MR. PIKE: Form, lack of predicate.
2 BY MR. KUVIN:
3 Q. Have you used it?
4 MR. PIKE: Same objection, lack of predicate,
5 no foundation, harassing.
6 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
7 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
8 at this time, I cannot provide any questions [sic]
9 relevant to the lawsuit. I must accept counsels'
10 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to
11 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my
12 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the
13 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
14 BY MR. KUVIN:
15 Q. Would you agree with the description that you
16 are a pervert?
17 MR. PIKE: Same objection, harassing,
18 argumentative.
19 BY MR. KUVIN:
20 Q. You can answer. It's either a simple yes or
21 no.
22 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
23 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
24 present time, my attorneys have counseled me that I
25 cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this
0043
1 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
2 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
3 Accordingly, I must assert my federal constitutional
4 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment
5 of the US Constitution.
6 Q. Have any mental health counselors diagnosed
7 you as a sexual deviant?
8 MR. PIKE: Again, form --
9 THE WITNESS: I don't believe so.
10 MR. PIKE: -- work product.
11 BY MR. KUVIN:
12 Q. Do you believe you're a sexual deviant?
13 MR. PIKE: Form.
14 THE WITNESS: No, I do not.
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. Do you have sex with minors?
17 MR. PIKE: Same objection, form, 5th
18 Amendment.
19 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
20 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
21 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
EFTA01158533
22 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
23 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
24 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
25 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal
0044
1 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th
2 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
3 BY MR. KUVIN:
4 Q. Would you agree that you have a psychological
5 disorder with respect to your sexual preferences?
6 MR. PIKE: Same objection.
7 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
8 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however
9 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
10 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
11 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
12 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
13 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal
14 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th,
15 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
16 BY MR. KUVIN:
17 Q. Have you had sex with transsexuals?
18 MR. PIKE: Same objection.
19 THE WITNESS: No.
20 BY MR. KUVIN:
21 Q. Do you know a Ms. Cordero?
22 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
23 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
24 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
25 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
0045
1 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
2 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
3 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
4 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments to the
5 US Constitution.
6 Q. Do you know a Ms.
7 MR. PIKE: Same objection.
a THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
9 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
10 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
11 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
12 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
13 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
14 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal
15 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th,
16 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
17 BY MR. KUVIN:
18 Q. When do you intend to fully respond?
19 MR. PIKE: Same objection. In addition, work
20 product, attorney-client.
21 BY MR. KUVIN:
22 Q. I'm sorry, I misquoted you. You said I --
23 you've repeated now numerous times, "I fully intend to
24 respond," so let me rephrase my question.
25 When do you fully intend to respond?
0046
1 MR. PIKE: Same objection, attorney-client,
2 work product.
3 MR. KUVIN: Are you telling him not to answer?
4 MR. PIKE: It's attorney-client, work product.
5 I'm instructing him not to answer.
6 BY MR. KUVIN:
EFTA01158534
7 Q. Okay. So despite the fact that you're reading
8 this canned statement over and over to my questions, you
9 don't want to answer any questions about the written
10 statement; isn't that true?
11 MR. PIKE: Same objection, attorney-client,
12 work product. I'm instructing the witness not to
13 answer.
14 BY MR. KUVIN:
15 Q. You don't ever fully intend to respond to
16 anything, do you?
17 MR. PIKE: Same objection.
18 BY MR. KUVIN:
19 Q. Or would you like to?
20 MR. PIKE: Same objection. Now we're getting
21 borderline harassing and argumentative.
22 I think you should move on to -- certainly you
23 didn't come here to be argumentative and harassing
24 all day, Mr. Kuvin, so I would hope that you would
25 move on to another topic.
0047
1 THE WITNESS: Jack?
2 MR. KUVIN: I'm just looking.
3 MR. GOLDBERGER: He can look at it all he
4 wants.
5 Just ask for permission next time, if you want
6 to, because it is something that I gave to my
7 client. So when you want to look -- I've let you
8 mark it. If you want to look at it, just ask my
9 permission to do so, okay?
10 MR. KUVIN: Sure.
11 MR. GOLDBERGER: Is that all right with you?
12 MR. KUVIN: Perfectly fine.
13 MR. GOLDBERGER: Thanks.
14 BY MR. KUVIN:
15 Q. Your typed paper there says that you cannot
16 provide answers. Why not?
17 MR. PIKE: Attorney-client, work product. I'm
18 instructing him not to answer. It's my work
19 product.
20 MR. KUVIN: Are you stipulating that you
21 drafted the document we've marked as Exhibit 2?
22 MR. GOLDBERGER: No such stipulation.
23 MR. PIKE: No such stipulation.
24 MR. KUVIN: Well, if it's work product --
25 MR. PIKE: It's attorney-client, work product.
0048
1 MR. KUVIN: -- I just wanted to clarify.
2 BY MR. KUVIN:
3 Q. Did you have a sexual relationship with
4 when she still had a penis?
5 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 5th Amendment.
6 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
7 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
8 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
9 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
10 to this lawsuit. I must -- I must accept this
11 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to
12 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my
13 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the
14 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
15 BY MR. KUVIN:
16 Q. Do you know
17 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
EFTA01158535
18 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
19 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
20 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
21 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
22 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
23 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
24 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
25 US Constitution.
0049
1 Q. You agree, do you not, that is,
2 or as least was, your personal assistant for many years?
3 MR. PIKE: Same objection.
4 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
5 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
6 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
7 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
8 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
9 losing --
10 MR. GOLDBERGER: Why don't you -- why don't
11 you wait until he's listening, so he...
12 MR. KUVIN: Oh, I don't need to listen. I've
13 heard it many times.
14 MR. GOLDBERGER: No, we're going to wait.
15 We're going to wait.
16 MR. KUVIN: Oh, no, you don't have to wait.
17 MR. GOLDBERGER: Oh, no, we will.
18 BY MR. KUVIN:
19 Q. Okay. I'm sorry, are you done?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Oh, please finish.
22 A. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
23 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
24 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
25 as guaranteed by the 5th...
0050
1 Q. Okay. Go ahead. Don't wait for me.
2 A. -- 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US
3 Constitution.
4 Q. Okay. You agree, would you not, that
5 is currently dating Story Kowles, the
6 gentleman who is sitting here in the room working for
7 Mr. Goldberger at your deposition?
8 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
9 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
10 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
11 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
12 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my
13 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
14 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
15 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
16 US Constitution.
17 Q. Do you know how long has been
18 dating Mr. Story Kowles?
19 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
20 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
21 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
22 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
23 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
24 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
25 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional right as
0051
1 guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US
2 Constitution.
EFTA01158536
3 Q. Did you introduce to Story Kowles?
4 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
5 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
6 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
7 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
8 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
9 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
10 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights
11 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the
12 US Constitution.
13 Q. Are you aware that one of the State
14 prosecutors, Dahlia Weiss, who was working on your
15 criminal case, was also married to a lawyer working for
16 Mr. Goldberger here?
17 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client, work
18 product.
19 Don't answer.
20 MR. KUVIN: I'm sorry, work product?
21 Somebody's marriage?
22 MR. GOLDBERGER: Uh-huh. Don't answer it.
23 MR. KUVIN: I'd like an explanation as to how
24 someone's marriage is work product on the record so
25 I can be clear to determine whether I need to bring
0052
1 that question up in front of Judge Hafele.
2 MR. PIKE: The rules do not require for
3 speaking objections, and we're going to limit
4 ourself to form and the appropriate objections
5 thereafter, which have been asserted. So there
6 does not need to be anything in the record. Should
7 you wish to file a motion, you can do so.
8 MR. KUVIN: Well, before I file such motion, I
9 think the rules also dictate that I can request an
10 explanation, which I'm doing.
11 MR. PIKE: We've already objected.
12 MR. KUVIN: Okay.
13 BY MR. KUVIN:
14 Q. Do you know Dahlia Weiss?
15 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant
16 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the
17 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot
18 provide answers to any questions relevant to this
19 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my
20 6th Amendment right to effective representation.
21 MR. GOLDBERGER: Actually, I'll let you answer
22 the question as asked, as to do you know Dahlia
23 Weiss.
24 THE WITNESS: No, I do not.
25
0053
1 BY MR. KUVIN:
2 Q. With respect to Mr. Goldberger, your criminal
3 attorney, did you buy him a brand new BMW?
4 MR. GOLDBERGER: Don't.
5 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all
6 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however,
7 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me
8 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant
9 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk
10 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective
11 representation.
12 MR. GOLDBERGER: It's also attorney-client and
13 work product as to my fees.
EFTA01158537
14 THE WITNESS: Accordingly, I assert my federal
15 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th
16 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.
17 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'm sorry, it's also
18 attorney-client work product as to my fees.
19 BY MR. KUVIN:
20 Q. Have you bought any new cars for your civil
21 attorneys, like Mr. Critton?
22 MR. PIKE: Objection, relevance.
23 BY MR. KUVIN:
24 Q. Robert Critton.
25 MR. PIKE: Argumentative, harassing, not
0054
1 reasonably calculated to lead to admissible
2 evidence in this case.
3 THE WITNESS: No.
4 BY MR. KUVIN:
5 Q. It's a shame.
6 MR. GOLDBERGER: What was that?
7 THE WITNESS: Shame, he said.
8 BY MR. KUVIN:
9 Q. Why not?
10 MR. PIKE: Objection, relevance. I'm going to
11 instruct him not to answer the question. It's
12 argumentative.
13 BY MR. KUVIN:
14 Q. Is there anyone else that you know that is
15 dating staff at Mr. Goldberger's office other than
16 and Ms. Wife -- Ms. Weiss?
17 MR. PIKE: Objection, form.
18 MR. GOLDBERGER: Whoa, whoa, whoa. First of
19 all, let's get the question right. and
20 Ms. Weiss are dating each other; is that the
21 question?
22 MR. KUVIN: No, I'll clarify.
23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Thank you.
24 BY MR. KUVIN:
25 Q. Is there anyone else that you know that's
0055
1 dating staff at Mr. Goldberger's office other than
2 , or married to staff working for
3 Mr. Goldberger other than Ms. Weiss?
4 MR. GOLDBERGER: There are people --
5 MR. PIKE: Objection, form, multiple,
6 compound, vague, irrelevant, not reasonably
7 calculated to lead to admissible evidence.
8 MR. GOLDBERGER: Do you understand the
9 question? The question as asked: Do you know
10 anyone who dates anyone at my office?
11 THE WITNESS: This is why -- this is why we're
12 here?
13 MR. GOLDBERGER: I mean, do you know -- the
14 question is: Do you know if anyone in my office
15 dates anybody?
16 THE WITNESS: No, I do not.
17 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay.
18 BY MR. KUVIN:
19 Q. That's a good point. I'm glad you made it.
20 No, you know why we're here? We're here to
21 ask you whether or not you had any sexual contact with
22 III. Did you?
23 A. Who?
24 Q. With a young girl that was 14 years old.
EFTA01158538
25 A. What was her name?
0056
1 Q. ION.
2 A. Can you refresh my recollection who she -- do
3 you have anything to show me, something that might --
4 Q. I do, and I will pursuant to the
5 confidentiality that we've previously discussed in this
6 case.
7 A. So tell me who it is that you're representing?
a Q. I will do that.
9 Have you had sex with numerous girls underage?
10 A. You've asked me if this -- which question --
11 MR. GOLDBERGER: Wait, the question was --
12