EFTA02712200.pdf

From: jeffrey E. <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 11:10 AM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: Re: thats cheating . . Is the study of ho= it dances really a study of the living systen? or is merely t=e sensory motor display in phyiscal space. if you admit it bei=g the latter , my dismal knowledge of language requires the ex=ert to suggest, was the mistake a "semantic error' = haha.. 2. the bee takes the space time vector and using=poloarization and other inputs, to merely express in in other domains its =esult. a phenomenological trivial event. wouldnt pointing and=saying" over there". be as trivial . if you do point=and speak , isn't that a merging of the" two" languages . ne=ther concatenation or distance . ?? I attach a gromov paper= his apology to the reader on page 26 , i think el=gantly explains some of the new difficulties. <=iv class="gmail_extra"> On Tue, Jun 9, 201= at 12:49 AM, Noam Chomsky <cl 'j P P " ' > wrote: It's quite true that computer=modelling of living systems is often misused, but it's often used =uite effectively. In the case of language, what has been used effectively is the theory of computability-recursive function theory, whic= provides basic and appropriate tools. It's also been used e=fectively to study insect navigation and much else.</=> I wonder if the nuzanmirre is still a=ound. From: jeffrey E. [mailto:[email protected] Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 10:57 PM To: Noam Chomsky EFTA_R1_02129080 EFTA02712200 Subject: Re: Re: This all needs exposition. sorry. =C2 the computer model for living systems has not led to man= conherent theories. it does gets misued all the time however,=C2 . the simplest of questions , why does a cell have a sym=etrical shape. extremely complex computations were attempted . did the lipids attra=t. ? if so with what force. ? did the area need to enclose the great=st volume. . we now know that it is nothing more than the most=probable shape , given the statistical ensemble available to it. nothing more. . quantum would attempt to explain it by sugges=ing the moleucules took every shape they could and decided on the spherica= one. . I smile everytime I think of your percepti=n that there was a magazine called nuzanmirrer. On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Noam Chomsky <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]». wrote: It's absolutely true that for=study of choice of action, the computer model is not helpful at all. That's something I've been arguing for many decades, in op=osition to most physicists these days, who claim that choice of action red=ces to determinacy and randomness (i.e., programmable). I think it m=y have come up in the Krauss discussion. I also discussed it again in my Dewey lectures in the J. of Philosophy in December 2013. I don't frankly see how the S=hrodinger analogy helps in this case. To clarify, the people I mentioned weren't students working on comp=ters. Rather, professional mathematicians and physicists. The =wo who have been attending seminars for many years, and have published in =reas very closely related to my work, are a mathematician and quantum physicist at Northeastern. Noam From: Jeffrey E. [mailto:[email protected] Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 9:57 PM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: brain as a computer? as silly as artificial in=elligence., The simple example I teach re quantum is whe= i try to decide should i order fish or meat. for the moment before I order ( as you an I agree ms before i even am concious of ordering. ) bo=h choices like schroedingers cat exist as a superpostioned wave func=ion that collapses and a choice is made. . yes i a= taking liberties. . the students you referred to you suggest are working on computers, not very odd that they might see you I Ian=uage conforming to their pre perceptions 2 EFTA_R1_02129081 EFTA02712201  On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Noam Chomsky I have a VERY thick skin, and love to=hear criticism. One of the best ways to learn. And I'v= often given up closely held beliefs on the basis of persuasive argumentation. =AO But in this case, I just don't see the arguments.=u> It's true that the mathematic= lacks rigor, but that's for the same reason that publications in =rofessional math journals lack rigor. The steps that are not spelled out are str=ightforward enough so that they can be easily filled in. I don =99t know of any problems about set theory, apart from the classic ones. =AO Some version of set theory is presupposed in every branch of math, including category theory. As for the brain as a com=uter, I'm not sure what you see as the problem. The papers l=sent you do assume that I-language is a computational system, with the pro=erties mentioned, easily formalized. I don't know of any coherent alternative. Actually, very good professional mathem=ticians and physicists, one working primarily on quantum computers, have a=tended my regular seminars for years, but I've never heard a sugge=tion as to how mathematical ideas used in quantum theory would be relevant to systems of the kind we're considering.=C2 The "displacement conjecture" is, in fact, an immedi=te consequence of what would be the best possible theory if it's t=ue: SMT, in particular, the assumption that the basic combinatorial operation is the simplest one possible. Merge is simply set-formatio=, presupposed in all of mathematics. I agree that it's na =AFve, if by that you mean very simple, arguably optimally so. But ha=n't that been the pretty explicit goal of science, at least since Galileo, quantum theory included? I'd like to hear the=objections, and hope to learn from them. Noam From: jeffrey E. [mailto:[email protected] Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 3:07 PM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: I will take your word that you share my thick skin f=r criticism and share a strange pleasure in learning, even if it mea=s having to accept that some formerly closely held beliefs might need strong correction. I have no particular knowl=dge re politics or history, so I will never offer an opinion. =owever re mathematics and or money , I feel on strong ground. =hat being said, thought puzzles in the paper are brilliant and=insightful. the mathematical descriptions lack rigor , and the metaphors suffer =rom the common science limitation of trying to describe things using the e=gineering metaphors or the tools of the moment.ex. The =uman or its brain as a computer ., set theory . It was popular in the early 20th as you know to describe the body as an elect=ic machine.. the mathematics used today in quantum show =ore promise , as it attempts to describe things that appear counter intuit=ve. or difficult to comprehend , ( your displacement conjecture) your simple X and Y, Merge, is quit= naive and unfortunately incorrect. 2. from the paper you sent. ; a much more elegant way of conveying =AO what i had failed to do re sentences and money European structuralism commonly adopted the Saussurean conception of langua=e ( MONEY) (in the relevant sense) =s a social entity; as Saussure put it, a storehouse of word images ( values ) in the brains of a collectivity o= individuals founded on a "sort of contract." 3 EFTA_R1_02129082 EFTA02712202  please no=e The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> , and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved please no=e The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> , and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved please no=e The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> , and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved 4 EFTA_R1_02129083 EFTA02712203  please =ote The information contained in this communication is confiden=ial, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside informati=n, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the propert= of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communica=ion or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If =ou have received this communication in error, please notify us immediat=ly by return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected] <mailto:jeevacation@gmail=com> , and destroy this comm=nication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -=11 rights reserved 5 EFTA_R1_02129084 EFTA02712204