EFTA00058522.pdf

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL JUNE 14, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00058522  2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00058523  3 1 : The recording is on. 2 Today is Monday, June 14, 2021. The time is 3 3:14 p.m. This is 4 with the DOJ OIG. 5 My name is , I'm 6 a Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 7 Justice Office of the Inspector General New 8 York Field Office. And these are my 9 credentials. The interview is with Federal 10 Bureau of Prisons correctional officer 11 . Did I say that 12 right? 13 -: 14 -: . Sorry. 15 16 : Mm-hmm. 17 : And it is being conducted as 18 part of an official U.S. Department of Justice 19 Office of the Inspector General investigation. 20 Today is June 14, 2021 and the time is again 21 : 3:15. 22 : 3:15 p.m. The interview is 23 being conducted at FCI Danbury in the training 24 center. Also present are DOJ OIG Senior 25 Special Agent EFTA00058524  4 1 • . And these 2 are my credentials. 3 : And 4 . This interview will be recorded by me, 5 Special Agent . Could everyone 6 please identify themselves for the record and 7 spell your last name. To start again, I am DOJ 8 OIG Special Agent -. 9 : Senior Special Agent 10 11 -• 12 : This is an official DOJ OIG 13 investigation into the death of Inmate Jeffrey 14 Epstein and the timing - everything that 15 surrounds that time. And you're being asked to 16 voluntarily provide answers to our questions. 17 Will you agree to a voluntary interview with 18 the DOJ OIG? 19 : Yes. 20 : Okay. Please review DOJ OIG 21 Form 226-2. I'm going to read the form out to 22 you and then we'll go through it. The form 23 states: United States Department of Justice 24 Office of the Inspector General. Warnings and 25 Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide EFTA00058525  5 1 Information on a Voluntary Basis. You are 2 being asked to provide information as part of 3 an investigation being conducted by the Office 4 of the Inspector General. This investigation 5 is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector 6 General Act of 1978 as amended. This 7 investigation pertains to job performance 8 failure and security failure. This is a 9 voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not 10 have to answer any questions. No disciplinary 11 action will be taken against you if you choose 12 not to answer questions. Any statement you 13 furnish may be used as evidence in any future 14 criminal proceeding or agency disciplinary 15 proceedings or both. Now this is the statement 16 for you directly. I understand the Warnings 17 and Assurances stated above and I am willing to 18 make a statement and answer questions. No 19 promises or threats have been made to me and no 20 pressure or coercion of any kind has been used 21 against me. Do you understand that? 22 : Yes. 23 : Do you agree to move forward 24 with the interview? 25 : Yes. EFTA00058526  6 1 : Please review the document 2 and sign where it says employee. 3 : Yeah. You're going to 4 sign right where it says employee signature. 5 : And print your name below 6 that. 7 : My full name? 8 : Yes, please. 9 has signed the document. I am also going to 10 sign the document. 11 : Thank you. 12 : Yeah. 13 : What time is it 3:20 now? 14 : 3:18. 15 : I'm passing the document to 16 agent -. I keep avoiding saying your 17 last name. 18 : It's alright. It's 19 and I'll be signing the 20 document as the witness. 21 : Okay. Before starting the 22 interview, I would like to place you under 23 oath. , can you please raise your 24 right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and 25 nothing but the truth during this interview? EFTA00058527  7 1 : Yes. 2 : Please let me know if you do 3 not understand any questions and I will repeat 4 it or try to rephrase it for you. What is your 5 current home address? 6 -: 7 : Can you spell that? 8 : Yep. 9 10 : What is your date of birth? 11 -. . . 12 : Your Social Security Number? 13 • • 14 What's your cell phone 15 number? 16 • • 17 What is your highest level of 18 education? 19 Bachelor's degree. 20 : Which college? 21 • 22 23 : And what was the bachelor's 24 degree in? 25 : In? EFTA00058528  8 1 : Yeah. What did you -? 2 : Forensic psychology and 3 counseling. 4 : You said forensic psychology. 5 : Forensic psychology and 6 counseling. 7 : Okay. 8 : And what year did you 9 graduate? 10 -: 11 : And that's in New York 12 City. Correct? 13 : Yes. 14 : Okay. What did you do prior 15 to working for the BOP? 16 : I was a New York City 17 probation officer. 18 : For how long? 19 : Three years. 20 : Did you have any military 21 service? 22 : No. 23 : How long have you served with 24 the Federal Bureau of Prisons? 25 : A little over ten years. Ten EFTA00058529  9 1 years and five months. 2 : Do you recall your Entry and 3 Duty Date? 4 : Mm-hmm. 5 : And prior to that you said 6 you were with the New York City -- 7 : Probation office. 8 : -- Probation Office. And 9 that was for how many years? Three years? 10 : Yes. 11 : What did you do prior to 12 that? 13 : New York state corrections 14 officer. 15 : New York State. How long did 16 you do that for? 17 : About seven or eight months. 18 : And prior to that. 19 : I was a full-time student at 20 John Jay College. 21 : The short period with New 22 York state. Did you resign from the position 23 or -? 24 : Yeah. I resigned to go to 25 probation. EFTA00058530  10 1 : Okay. When did you graduate 2 from BOP training? 3 • • 4 : When and where was your first 5 office assignment with the BOP? 6 -: 7 : Okay. And what year was 8 that? 9 when I started. 10 : What was your position? 11 : Correctional officer. 12 : Did you stay there or did you 13 move on as a correctional officer? 14 : I was there from 15 . That's why I 16 transferred to MCC New York. 17 was my first day at MCC New York. 18 : Did you transfer as a -? 19 : Lateral transfer. 20 : Lateral transfer. So, you 21 were still a correctional officer. 22 : Yes. 23 : Okay. 24 : Did you -? How does it 25 work in Allenwood? Are you assigned to one of EFTA00058531  11 1 the facilities or were you --? 2 : Yeah. 3 : -- rotated throughout? 4 : So, they - 95% of the time I 5 was at the Medium. But when we were short- 6 staffed, then I would go to the Pen on the low. 7 But they tried their best to keep you at one 8 institution. But you were hired for the entire 9 complex, so you could bounce around. 10 : Okay. 11 : When did you get promoted? 12 was the day I 13 got selected for lieutenant. But I started 14 here 15 : Okay. Did you hold any other 16 positions between correctional officer and 17 lieutenant? 18 : Correction officer was entry 19 level. Then automatic senior officer. Then I 20 was promoted to Senior Officer Specialist, 21 which is up under a GS-11 - I'm sorry, a GS-9 22 lieutenant. And then I'm now promoted to 23 lieutenant. So, the promotions were the senior 24 office specialist and the lieutenant. 25 : When did you get promoted as EFTA00058532  12 1 Senior Officer Specialists? 2 -: -. No, I'm 3 sorry. . I can't really 4 remember which year. 5 : But Senior Officer 6 Specialist that is a lieutenant position? 7 : No. 8 : Oh. It's just the same 9 grade. 10 : No. Senior Officer 11 Specialist is an 8. 12 : Oh. And lieutenant is a 13 9. 14 : Lieutenant is a 9 and 11. 15 : I got you. I'm sorry. 16 : I just can't remember what 17 year I got promoted. I can't remember if it 18 was 19 : That's fine. 20 : On August 9 and 10 of 2019, 21 what was your position? 22 : Senior Officer Specialist. 23 : What shift did you work? Do 24 you recall? On August 9th and 10th. 25 : I don't remember what shift. EFTA00058533  13 1 : Okay. I'm going to provide 2 you with it. 3 : Okay. 4 : I'm going to provide you with 5 two documents. 6 : Okay. 7 : It states MCC New York Daily 8 Assignment Roster. 9 : Yep. 10 : One is for August 9th and one 11 is for August 10th. 12 : Yep. 13 : Can you just take a look at 14 it? 15 : Yep. 16 : Let me know if you recall. 17 : Yep. Yep-yep. Okay. We got 18 the 9th here. Okay. Yep. I was attorney 19 conference for Day Watch 8:00 to 4:00. That's 20 my regular shift. 21 : Which day was that? August 22 9th? 23 : Uh, this is August 9th. Yep. 24 And then for -. Wait hold on a sec. Oh. 25 Right here. Yep. I did overtime from -. EFTA00058534  14 1 Activities lieutenant is usually 2:00 to 10:00, 2 but I overlap because my regular hours are 8:00 3 to 4:00. So, usually when they have the Senior 4 Specialist 8s do activities, we have to wait 5 until 4:00 to actually start the role because 6 we are still doing our regular time. 7 : Okay. 8 : So, I did activities from 9 4:00 to 10:00 that night. 10 : Now we've talked to other 11 lieutenants and they said that they actually 12 start the lieutenant positions two hours 13 earlier. Is that the case with this case as 14 well? Did you start at 4:00 or did you start 15 at 2:00? 16 : I started at 4:00 because I 17 was attorney conference for my straight time. 18 : Okay. So, because you 19 did that then you actually did start at 4:00. 20 : That is correct. 21 : Okay. 22 : That is correct. 23 : So from 4:00 until 24 Did you actually end with what time it says on 25 that as well? EFTA00058535  15 1 : Yes. Yes. 2 : Okay. 3 : 4:00 to 10:00. And for 4 August 10th -. 5 : So, you didn't go until 6 12:00 a.m. You went until 10:00 p.m. 7 : That is correct. 8 : Okay. Yep. Yeah. 9 Because - okay. That makes sense. 10 : Yes. Alright. And then I'm 11 looking at the 10th - - August 10th. I was 12 SHU2. I was supposed to be attorney 13 conference. That was my post. But because 14 that happened with Epstein, attorney conference 15 was - all social visits was canceled. So, when 16 I came in that day, I remember the lieutenant 17 telling me to go to SHU to help out. Be extra 18 bodies in SHU. That day they put a bunch of us 19 in SHU to just be there and help out. Yep. 20 : So, when were you in the 21 SHU on August the 10th? 22 : Yes. 23 : No, what time? 24 : Um 8:00 to 4:00. 25 : So, 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 EFTA00058536  16 1 p.m. 2 : Yes. This is it. And I did 3 overtime. 4 : On August 10th. 5 Yep. From internal. We were 6 It was terrible with mandations and just 7 being short staffed. So. We all - everybody 8 that was there for day watch pretty much stayed 9 for evening watch. 10 : Okay. So, primarily what 11 we're going to be talking about though is your 12 - on August 9th, the shift from 4:00 to 10:00. 13 : Mm-hmm. 14 : And then we'll probably 15 ask you some questions -- 16 : Mm-hmm. 17 : -- at 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 18 p.m. in the SHU on -- 19 : Yep. 20 : -- the following the day. 21 : Yep. You want these back? 22 : Yeah. 23 : Actually since you reviewed 24 it. Right? 25 : Yeah. EFTA00058537  17 1 : We always ask people to 2 initial and date just so that you know what 3 document. You know because we're going to 4 attach this to the transcripts. 5 : Yes. 6 : So you don't have to -. 7 You can do that you want if you want to circle, 8 but up top. 9 : Okay. 10 : If you just want to 11 initial and date up there. 12 : And today is the 14th. You 13 can just put your name on the list too. 14 Okay. 15 So where it shows. 16 Okay. 17 : Thank you very much. 18 Yeah. 19 : You can hold on to those. 20 : She can probably keep 21 that in front of her, so that if we ask 22 : Okay. 23 : Just in case. 24 : -- you about other people 25 you can kind of refer to it. EFTA00058538  18 1 : Who was your supervisor when 2 you worked at the MCC on August 9th and 10th. 3 -: He's a GS-9 4 lieutenant. 5 : Is that 6 : Yes. 7 : Okay. As a Senior Officer 8 Specialist, what's your daily duties? 9 : On that specific post or -? 10 Because it varies day-to-day. 11 : I was going to try to 12 differentiate between what you do before as a 13 Senior Officer Specialist to when you do 14 Activities Lieutenant. 15 : Okay. 16 : So on that post you said you 17 were an attorney conference. Right? 18 : Yes. 19 : What are your duties? 20 : Yep. So this post entails 21 pretrial inmates meeting with their legal team. 22 : Okay. 23 : Lawyers, probation, whoever 24 comes through on a legal matter. That's where 25 inmates meet with them on that floor for EFTA00058539  19 1 whatever reason. 2 : Okay. What about as an 3 Activities Lieutenant? 4 : Activities Lieutenant that 5 night? 6 : Yeah. That night. 7 : Yeah. So I'm required to do 8 rounds. Make sure that staff are alive and 9 well. Rounds of them doing their duties, 10 conducting their rounds, doing shakedowns. You 11 know making sure they're doing counts and 12 things like that. So basically supervising 13 staff. 14 : Okay. 15 : On counts and rounds. 16 : Yeah. On that note, counts 17 and rounds. Do you assist with doing the 18 counts and rounds? 19 : Negative. 20 : Okay. 21 : So you said though that 22 they make sure that you do them. How does a 23 lieutenant actually ensure that the employees 24 are doing their counts and rounds? 25 : Yep. So for instance if it's EFTA00058540  20 1 a certain day, we all have the operations 2 lieutenant will say hey I want you to observe a 3 count in unit 7 North. Or 9 North is doing a 4 bed book count. Go observe that count. So we 5 ensure that those things are being done 6 basically but when we make our specific round, 7 and we're speaking with the officer saying hey 8 is everything good. You know make sure you do 9 your rounds. Basically reinforcing and 10 reiterating because you know at the end of the 11 day we're all adults. So like you have a job 12 to do and we're just making sure. And you know 13 making sure you're doing it. We're not like 14 babysitting -- 15 : Sure. Okay. 16 -- and like hey, you know, do 17 a round. 18 : Do the officers though 19 ever actually participate in the rounds and the 20 counts? Are they supposed to do that at all? 21 : Say that again. I'm sorry. 22 : So are the lieutenants - 23 are they supposed to participate in any of the 24 counts and rounds done of the inmates so when 25 the COs are doing counts and rounds -- EFTA00058541  21 1 : Yes. Yes. 2 : Is that like a you're 3 supposed to do that like once a shift. 4 : No. So once a shift, we are 5 taking the count. So we are the ones in the 6 control center where the officers are actually 7 calling their counts in. So like observing 8 counts is something that we do irregularly. If 9 you understand what I'm trying to say. 10 : Mm-hmm. 11 : So like say for instance if 12 I'm activities today. I want to observe 7 13 North conduct a count. I want to go up to 9 14 North today and do a shakedown with them. It's 15 just something that as a lieutenant you take 16 the initiative and when you go to the unit you 17 say hey let's do a shakedown. Let's do a round 18 on this tier. Let's do a round on this tier. 19 You have any issues with any inmates? Oh yeah. 20 I had an issue with inmate Smith. Alright. 21 Let's go talk to Inmate Smith over there. 22 : So it's to your 23 discretion. 24 : Yes. 25 : Okay. So it's not like EFTA00058542  22 1 you need to do this or do that. It's just if 2 you want to take the initiative to make sure 3 that they know where they're going and they're 4 doing it right -- 5 : Yeah. 6 : You do it. 7 : It should be done, but it's 8 not like hey Monday it has to be done. Tuesday 9 it has to be done. You know as a lieutenant 10 you should be a lot - you should be speaking 11 with the officers and in the mix and hands on 12 with them. But it's not like Tuesday you do 13 it. Wednesday you do this. Thursday you do 14 that. 15 : Okay. 16 : And in Special Housing Unit, 17 we should be walking every single tier speaking 18 with every single inmate as a lieutenant making 19 rounds in a Special Housing Unit. 20 : Can you kind of explain 21 that a little bit? 22 : Okay. 23 : So during a shift should 24 a lieutenant be going to the Special Housing 25 Unit -- EFTA00058543  23 1 : That is correct. 2 : -- and actually doing 3 that? 4 : Yes. So in general 5 population, that's the opposite of Special 6 Housing. When you make a round, like you don't 7 have to hit. So let's say that they have eight 8 tiers. Tier 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. You make a 9 round. You check on the officer. And then 10 you're in the unit but you're not because 11 inmates are out and about. So it's not about 12 walking every tier because the inmates are out. 13 But in Special I'm sorry, I'm just dramatic 14 with my hands. 15 : I love it. 16 : So in Special Housing, 17 inmates are locked down. So it's our 18 responsibility to go up on the tier and go to 19 every door and speak to every inmate because 20 it's not general population. It's not like 21 they can - when you come to the unit they can 22 come out and say hey lieutenant I got a 23 question. That's the reason why we have to go 24 to them. 25 : So the lieutenant does EFTA00058544  24 1 that though. 2 Yes. 3 : Alright. 4 For our round once a shift. 5 : So every shift a 6 lieutenant should be actually in the Special 7 Housing Unit checking on the -? 8 : Yes. 9 : Oh, okay. 10 : Yes. 11 : Is that in policy or is that 12 something that's new. 13 : It's our post orders. It was 14 in the post orders at Danbury. I know that for 15 sure. 16 : And who is it that's 17 actually responsible for doing that. Which 18 lieutenant? So for instance, each shift. 19 : Yep. 20 : Which is the lieutenant 21 that should be doing like a round or a count? 22 Did you say it was a round or a count? 23 : Either one. One is good 24 enough. So operations lieutenant is the 25 highest-ranking officer on shift on evening EFTA00058545  25 1 watch. So as an 8 acting as a lieutenant. 2 Like when I'm finished with that shift, I'll go 3 check in with him and I'll say hey what do you 4 need me to do. He'll go okay, I need you to 5 take the count in Control F4. I need you to 6 move this inmate from Special Housing Unit to 7 Suicide Watch. I need you to move this inmate 8 over here. And then after that I need you to 9 make sure all the food carts get up on time. 10 So I'm kind of like taking direction from the 11 operations lieutenant. And then we'll say 12 something like hey who's going to SHU. Me or 13 you? Oh, you go to SHU, hit all of this. I'm 14 going to be doing this. It's kind of like you 15 guys are. 16 : But every shift a 17 lieutenant should be in the Special Housing 18 Unit checking in with each inmate. 19 : Yes. 20 : Even the like midnight to 21 6:00 a.m. 22 : Well overnight is kind of 23 different because you're not -. You're making 24 a round but you're not tapping on every -. So 25 like if you're making a round in Special EFTA00058546  26 1 Housing Unit, and I'm walking past cell 1. And 2 he's like writing a letter or something. 3 Right? And the other one is like doing some 4 jumping jacks. And I'll show my face at the 5 door. You guys good? Yeah, Lu, I'm good. 6 I'll keep it moving. I'm not like hey do you 7 have any issues, tell me now. It's you know 8 what I'm saying. You make yourself present. 9 They know who you are. And that's the 10 opportunity for them to say what they need to 11 say if they have any issues or anything like 12 that. 13 : But even from like 10 14 p.m. to 6 a.m.? Because they're probably 15 sleeping between then, right? 16 : Yeah, but so, you're still 17 making a round and basically looking for live 18 breathing bodies. 19 : Okay. So and the 20 lieutenant should be doing that every night? 21 : Yes. 22 : Alright. 23 : I'm not really sure about the 24 morning watch shift. 25 : Yeah. EFTA00058547  27 1 : I'm not a fan of morning 2 watch. I didn't work too much morning watch. 3 : So that 10:00 p.m. to 4 6:00 a.m. you're not exactly sure. 5 : I'm not sure. 6 : Okay. 7 : I'm not sure. Yes. 8 : Right. 9 : And 9s don't work overnight 10 anyway. Because there's only one lieutenant on 11 and that's only an 11. Nines leave at 10:00 12 every day. 13 : But basically from he 14 hours of 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. a lieutenant 15 on each shift is going to -- 16 : Yes. 17 : -- check in. 18 : Yeah. 19 : Okay. 20 : On August 9th from when you 21 were acting When you were Activities 22 Lieutenant. Did you supervise any counts? 23 : No. I don't remember 24 supervising any counts. 25 : Okay. When you came on EFTA00058548  28 1 What are the count times at the MCC? 2 : On weekends and holidays, 3 it's 10:00 a.m. Every day 4:00 p.m., 10 p.m., 4 12:01 a.m., 3 a.m., 5 a.m. 5 : What about weekdays? 6 : Same time but a 10 a.m. count 7 in the morning. 8 : Okay. 9 : So the 4, the 12, 3, and 5 - 10 excuse me - it's every day. But in addition, 11 on the weekends and holidays we have a 10 a.m. 12 count. 13 : Okay. 14 : So you said you did not 15 conduct a count though on August 9th. 16 : I don't remember. I can't 17 say. I don't remember that. 18 : I'm only following this 19 up because you said that you were supposed to 20 or 21 : No-no-no. 22 : -- maybe one of the other 23 lieutenants did. 24 : I don't' remember who 25 specifically - me or - took the count EFTA00058549  29 1 in control. 2 : In control. 3 Yeah. In the control center. 4 : But then you -. 5 : In the control center. 6 : I thought you said that 7 they're also supposed to go to the doors and 8 knock and see a lieutenant's face. In the SHU. 9 : In SHU? 10 : In the SHU. 11 : But that's not a count. 12 : Okay. That's a round? 13 : That's just when you make 14 your lieutenant rounds. 15 : Okay. So did you do a 16 round? 17 : Yes. I didn't' observe the 18 count in the Special Housing Unit, but I do 19 recall making a round and hitting every tier. 20 : Do you remember around 21 when you conducted that round on the 9th? 22 : I remember around like 8:00. 23 So I want to say it was between like maybe 5 24 and 8. Around that time. 25 : Somewhere between 5 p.m. EFTA00058550  30 1 and 8 p.m.? 2 : Yes. 3 : Okay. 4 : You were in the attorney 5 conference room before that. Right? 6 : Yes. 7 : Was Jeffrey Epstein in there 8 with you? 9 : Yes. 10 : Who was he meeting with? 11 : A bunch of attorneys on a 12 daily basis. He always met with a bunch of 13 attorneys. 14 : How many attorneys were there 15 with him? 16 : That day? I can't even tell 17 you how many. But it's never just one. It's 18 always more than one attorney. 19 : Did you interact with them 20 that day? Like when you were doing attorney 21 conference. Did he speak to you? 22 : Um. 23 : Did you speak to him? 24 : He had a bladder issue. So 25 because I'm a female staff, he had to use the EFTA00058551  31 1 restroom frequently. So I would call a male 2 staff over to help me. So in at that time, I 3 would have to call him to the door, put the 4 cuffs on him, pop the door and he would use the 5 bathroom. But a male staff would be with him 6 to do that 7 : Okay. 8 and would be the same 9 gender. So I do remember him being in attorney 10 conference. 11 : When you were doing the 12 evening count. Well evening rounds - 13 lieutenant rounds - was he back in his cell? 14 : No. He was still -. And he 15 always did open to close in attorney 16 conference. 17 : Okay. We'll come back on 18 that. 19 : Yeah. 20 : Do you have any other 21 questions on that topic? 22 : If you're going to come 23 back but I would just say what time did he 24 leave. Well I just said it. 25 : Yeah. EFTA00058552  32 1 : What time did he leave? 2 : About 8:00 because attorney 3 conference ends at 8 and 95% of the time when I 4 was there, he was always there from start to 5 finish. 6 : Okay. 7 : With attorneys though. Those 8 were attorney conference hours. And he always 9 did all the hours. 10 : When you were - as the 11 lieutenant when you supervised employees, how 12 many employees did you have under you? 13 : On the evening watch shift or 14 day watch, it just really depends. If you're 15 working day watch you have more staff on. It 16 would be over 50. 17 : Have you ever had like any 18 instructions or anything that came from up 19 above - any orders - and you had to pass it on 20 to people that report to you. 21 : Mm-hmm. 22 : How would you do it? 23 : We would usually do 24 conference calls. 25 : How do the conference calls EFTA00058553  33 1 work? Explain that. 2 : Yep. The phones that we 3 have, we just press three - three times. And 4 then whoever presses 3, we all hear each other. 5 We call those conference calls. 6 : Okay. 7 : We make announcements over 8 the PA system. But if it's like pertinent 9 information, we do the conference calls and I 10 was also the kind of individual where I repeat 11 the same thing over and over again, so when I 12 made a round and I saw every officer, I would 13 say the same thing over and over. You know, 14 sometimes people miss conference calls. I was 15 in the bathroom; I was doing this. So, this is 16 pertinent information. So face-to-face and 17 conference calls. 18 : Okay. If there was any 19 instructions or guidance from upper management, 20 how would they give it to you? How would they 21 pass it on to you? 22 : They would pass it on to me 23 as an officer or as a 9 lieutenant? 24 : Let's do both since you can 25 speak about both. EFTA00058554  34 1 • : Okay. 2 : As an officer, how would you 3 get it? 4 : As an officer, they would 5 always tell the captain who would then tell the 6 operations lieutenant and then inform the 7 officers. If the officers needed to know. I 8 mean as an officer, we're called line staff, we 9 didn't always know. We didn't' need to know 10 the gist of everything. So like say for 11 instance that night we had a high-profile 12 inmate coming in. We would find out when we're 13 doing our round or we're working that unit. 14 Like oh, you're the one that was on the news. 15 Okay. So we didn't know everything that was 16 going on. 17 : Okay. And that's as an 18 officer. What about as a lieutenant? 19 : Being a 9 I mean if you 20 happen to be in the office at the time that the 21 captain was telling operations, then you'll get 22 wind of it. If not, then if I was walking 23 around or out and about and I would see the 24 operations, and he or she will call me and say 25 I've got some information to tell you. Come on EFTA00058555  35 1 down here. The captain just told me X, Y, and 2 Z. So we're going to do Z, Y, and Z tonight. 3 : Okay. 4 So is it basically the 5 captain tells the ops lieutenant, the ops 6 lieutenant, disseminates to everybody else? 7 : Yes. 8 : Alright. So it's not 9 like the captain is responsible for telling 10 everyone else. 11 : No. 12 : The ops lieutenant really 13 is. 14 : That is correct. 15 : Okay. 16 : I mean the captain 17 communicates with staff as well, but you know 18 the chain of -- 19 : Command. 20 -- command is, inform an 21 operations lieutenant. 22 : Okay. And then it's 23 really the operations lieutenant's 24 : Yes. 25 : -- position. Okay. EFTA00058556  36 1 : So what if it was a different 2 shift? Something got passed down to the 3 operations lieutenant in the morning from the 4 captain and now it's coming up on evening 5 shift. How does that get passed down? Because 6 what if the captain doesn't get a chance to 7 meet with the operations lieutenant that works 8 the evening shift? 9 : So. 10 : Who pass -? 11 : You're saying that like at 12 8:00 in the morning. 13 : Lets say at 8:00 in the 14 morning there's an order or guidance that comes 15 down 16 : Okay. 17 : -- to the operations 18 lieutenant. 19 : Yep. 20 : And now that needs to be 21 spread out to the evening shift and the night 22 watch. Right? 23 : Mm-hmm. 24 : Well let's talk about 25 specifics. So if you got right here you're EFTA00058557  37 1 looking at August 9th. 2 : Mm-hmm. 3 : And you've got 4 who I'm assuming -. 5 -: 6 -: 7 : Sorry, , who would 8 be here from - it looks like 8:00 to 4:00 p.m. 9 : He was on 07:00 to 3:00. 10 : 07 to 3:00 p.m. 11 : Mm-hmm. 12 : So he's on duty and right 13 there he's got Who's the ops lieutenant 14 there. That's the captain. Who -? 15 : Ops lieutenant is 16 : So is, so what he's 17 asking is if there's no overlap with 18 since he starts at 4:00. 19 : Mm-hmm. 20 : How does the information 21 get to 22 : So would be responsible 23 to let know everything that has 24 happened and what needs to be done. 25 : Alright. And is that EFTA00058558  38 1 every day? Is it if is - or - what am I 2 saying? 3 -• 4 . If 5 Sorry, I'm reading this upside down. 6 : That's Okay. 7 : Is always gone by 8 3 or does he ever have overlap with the 4:00 9 ops lieutenant. 10 : I mean people stay you know 11 when they need to whether it's paperwork or 12 whatever. But I've never tracked a captain's 13 body. 14 : Sure. 15 : You know. 16 : So your understanding 17 though is pretty much is, is would be 18 like his primary. 19 : Oh yes. 20 : And then he understands. 21 And then ' role, and he understands it, 22 would be to relay whatever information needed 23 to 24 : Yes. Yes. 25 : Okay. EFTA00058559  39 1 : Yes. 2 : And then role would 3 be to bring that down to whoever is working in 4 his shift. 5 : Yes. 6 : During his shift. 7 : Yes. 8 : Okay. Let's go through. Let 9 me get it. Do you recall being investigated by 10 the agents in regard to the Jeffrey Epstein 11 death? 12 : Not being investigated. 13 Being interviewed. 14 : Interviewed. Sorry. 15 : Yes. 16 : Interviewed. 17 : Yes. 18 : In regard to the Jeffrey 19 Epstein death. 20 : Yes. 21 : In 2019. 22 : Yes. 23 : Okay. What I have is a 24 summary of their interview with you. 25 : Mm-hmm. EFTA00058560  40 1 • : I'm going to read what it 2 states. 3 : Okay. 4 : Please let me know if it's 5 accurate and if there's any questions. 6 : Okay. Yep. 7 -: started working for 8 the BOP i at Allenwood. 9 transferred to MCC i is 10 a Senior Officer Specialist but also serves as 11 a lieutenant. This usually happens when 12 is working overtime and is in the capacity of 13 her acting activities lieutenant. 14 stated that in order to do a round, an officer 15 has to physically go inside the area that is 16 occupied by the inmates. As an activities 17 lieutenant, makes a round through the 18 Special Housing Unit and asks officers in the 19 SHU if things are good. She's usually called 20 numerous times to the SHU for certain issues 21 like when an inmate complains that he hasn't 22 received something, III., property. 23 then takes note of the issue and advises the 24 captain. 25 : I don't know about advising EFTA00058561  41 1 the captain. I mean the captain ain't there. 2 So it's things that we handle at that specific 3 time. We can't wait for the captain. 4 : So who would you advise? 5 : Me being a 9, I would advise 6 operations and being that I am a Senior 7 Specialist, sometimes I can take the initiative 8 and rectify the situation. 9 : Okay. 10 : On the date of August 9th 11 -- 12 : Mm-hmm. 13 : -- if there wasn't any 14 issues, who would you have advised? 15 • • 16 • 17 : Yes. 18 : Okay. As an Activities 19 Lieutenant, sees a sampling of tiers at 20 MCC during her shift. 21 : Sample of tears? 22 : A sampling of tiers. 23 : Oh tiers, I'm sorry. 24 : Sampling of tiers. 25 : Sampling of tiers. Sorry. EFTA00058562  42 1 : Sorry. 2 : Go ahead. Sorry. 3 uses her PIV card at a 4 computer terminal to log rounds. 5 Yes. 6 Each unit at MCC has a 7 different log. 8 Each unit at MCC has a 9 different log. I don't' understand what that 10 means. 11 : I guess what they're 12 probably trying to say is if there's different 13 units, do they log their own counts and rounds. 14 : Yes. Officers are 15 responsible. They have their own PIV card 16 where they log in their own log information. 17 Yes. 18 : When you do rounds 19 : Mm-hmm. 20 : When you do rounds as a 21 lieutenant -- 22 : Mm-hmm. 23 : Do you keep track of it? The 24 rounds that you do. 25 : We log them. So -. EFTA00058563  43 1 : Is it different for each 2 unit? 3 : Oh yes. 4 : Okay. I think that's what 5 : Yes. 6 : And also you've got to 7 make sure you're talking about -. When you 8 were talking about a lieutenant doing counts 9 and rounds, are you talking about - or rounds I 10 should say -. You're typically talking about 11 doing rounds with your staff as opposed to with 12 the inmates. Correct? 13 : Well when you're making 14 rounds, it's for -. Because I am a person that 15 works in the corrections system. I mean staff 16 wellbeing is very important to me. 17 : Sure. 18 : You know. Of course we 19 supervise inmates, but if I'm walking on a unit 20 and I need to know where that staff member is. 21 Once I get that staff member, and I get eyes on 22 that staff member, then we do whatever we need 23 to do. 24 : So point being is if I'm 25 asking a lieutenant about conducting rounds and EFTA00058564  44 1 I'm asking a CO about conducting rounds, for a 2 lieutenant a round would pretty much you're 3 checking in with your round is with the COs. 4 The Officers. Whereas the officers rounds are 5 with the inmates. 6 : No. 7 : Oh