EFTA00765201.pdf

From: on behalf of Ben Goertzel <an To: Jeffrey Epstein <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Cassio's reaction Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:13:21 +0000 Jeffrey, I'm hardly an expert on other peoples' psychology, their reactions, or why they react the way they do... Over many years of thinking about this problem, I've developed a lot of idiosyncratic ideas and terms for discussing aspects of AGI. I think my ideas are better than the mainstream ones, but they're hard for mainstream AI people to understand, because they're different. So they tend to react to the high-level aspects of my design, and ignore the (critical) details, which veer too far from their background and mindset... So, the fact that some very smart but conformist-minded profs --- based on reading a 25 page overview --- aren't confident I have the solution to the AGI problem, doesn't bother me at all ... **except** that it stops me from getting $$ to do the project. In fact, I would go so far as to say: any AGI design that those people LOVED TO DEATH based on a 25-page proposal, would almost surely be CRAP ... because in order to get that sort of reaction from them based on such a short exposition, it would need to be very close to their existing ideas ... which are ideas that have already been tried and failed for a long time... As an example of what I mean by "not understanding my approach," in the conversation with Paul Rosenbloom there was an interval like this ** * Paul: I don't understand why you make such a big deal about cognitive synergy. I mean, when we built SOAR, of course we wanted the different parts to work together. Everyone wants that. Ben: Yes, but it's not just a matter of the different parts working together. You need them to work together in the right way, so that when one part senses an impending combinatorial explosion, it invokes another one in a way that will stop the explosion from happening. Otherwise the intelligence won't scale. And this requires accurate confidence assessment... Paul (eyes glaze over]: Yes, well, it's clear you have a lot of things going on in your system. You'll just have to get all the pieces working together and see how it actually works. Ben: Well our theory tells us how it's going to work. Of course we don't know for certain, but it's not like we're experimenting blind Paul: Well, I hope you get the money; I'm curious to see how it comes out... In other words: when the discussion got deep, he got vacuous. Smart guy, and a good human being ... but using a different conceptual vocabulary than me. he was not prepared to think hard enough about it to understand any of the core novel concepts in my approach. He was prepared to think hard enough to understand the high-level architecture and broad ideas, and that's what he reacted to in his letter. If I had the opportunity to teach all these profs a two-semester course based on my [not yet finished :( ] book and its two prequels (already published) -- and if they were able to bring themselves to actually think about what EFTA00765201 I was saying during the course -- then maybe their attitude would change into one of true enthusiasm.... But that's not the way the world works. In real life, since teaching these guys such a course is not gonna happen, the **only** thing that will bring these guys to the level of enthusiasm you want to see is a demo of breakthrough intelligence. The only way to get that anytime soon is with $$. If you are willing to risk $500K/year for 3 years on the project, then after the 3 years we'll have something that will make all these profs drop their jaws in awe and show the kind of enthusiasm you want. Otherwise, if no one will fund the work .. the world will just have more of the same lame AI ---- because the AI establishment will not give unguarded enthusiasm to anything except **their own work**, whose paradigms have have bogged down the field since before I was born... -- ben p.s. Bear in mind, I do know some profs who are more fully psyched about my approach. Itamar is one. Joscha Bach, whose book "Principles of Synthetic Intelligence" I left for you, is another. I have befriended those guys because their AI approaches and intuitions are somewhat similar to mine. They are not at top universities right now, in part because having out-of-the-mainstream AI ideas makes it very hard to get a job as an AI guy at a top university.... On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Jeffrey Epstein <[email protected]> wrote: > thanks„ I had two other people read the letters without any backround > info.. they came away with a different view that cassio"s hardly > objective view. If i were you, i would take more seriously , why there is > so little support for the idea. it disturbs me„ i believe in you. i can't > figure out why i am in the minority > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Ben Goertzel < wrote: >> » FYI, here is Cassio's typically concise and perceptive reaction to my >> summary of your reaction... >> » ben >> >> Forwarded message >> From: Cassio Pennachin >> Date: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:12 PM >> Subject: Re: Jeffrey's Reaction >> To: Ben Goertzel < > >> >> >> Based on my one afternoon exposure to Jeffrey, I assume this would be >> futile anyway, but how strongly did you try to convince him that these >> letters all actually meant to say, in semi-academese, "this should get >> funded, I just will not guarantee its success"? >> >> Cassio > -- > ww**www**www**www**www**www**www**www**www**www**www**www** > The information contained in this communication is > confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may > constitute inside information, and is intended only for > the use of the addressee. It is the property of EFTA00765202 > Jeffrey Epstein > Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this > communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited > and may be unlawful. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately by > return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected], and > destroy this communication and all copies thereof, > including all attachments. Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, Singularity Institute for AI External Research Professor, Xiamen University, China "I have a deep nostalgia for the future." -- Max More EFTA00765203