gov.uscourts.nysd.447706.1338.1.pdf

Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1335-6 1338-1 Filed 01/09/24 01/10/24 Page 1 of 134 EXHIBIT A  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1335-6 1338-1 Filed 01/09/24 01/10/24 Page 2 of 134 Page 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK CASE NO. 15-CV-07433-RWS VIRGINIA L. GIUFFRE, Plaintiff, -against- GHISLAINE MAXWELL, Defendant. ___________________________/ 250 N. Australian Avenue, Suite 1400 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Friday, September 9, 2016 8:35 a.m. - 2:08 p.m. C O N F I D E N T I A L VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN Taken before Darline M. West, Registered Professional Reporter, Notary Public in and for the State of Florida At Large, pursuant to Notice of Taking Deposition filed by the Plaintiff in the above cause. MAGNA LEGAL SERVICES 1200 Avenue of the Americas New York, New York 10026 (866) 624-6221 MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1335-6 1338-1 Filed 01/09/24 01/10/24 Page 3 of 134 Page 2 Page 4 1 APPEARANCES: 1 INDEX 2 On behalf of the Plaintiff: 2 WITNESS: PAGE: 3 THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH, 3 JEFFREY EDWARD EPSTEIN S.J. QUINNEY COLLEGE OF LAW 4 DIRECT EXAMINATION 8 4 383 South University Street BY MR. CASSELL: Salt Lake City, Utah 84112 5 5 Phone: 801.585.5202 CROSS-EXAMINATION 275 E-mail: [email protected] 6 BY MR. PAGLIUCA: 7 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 324 6 By: PAUL G. CASSELL, ESQ. BY MR. CASSELL: 7 -and- 8 8 BOIES SCHILLER & FLEXNER, LLP CERTIFICATE OF OATH 375 401 East Las Olas Boulevard 9 9 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 376 Phone: 954.356.0011 10 10 E-mail: [email protected] 11 By: SIGRID S. MCCAWLEY, ESQ. - - - 11 12 12 EXHIBITS 13 On behalf of the Defendant: 13 14 HADDON MORGAN FOREMAN - - - 150 East 10th Avenue 14 15 Denver, Colorado 80203 15 Description Page Phone: 303.831.7364 16 Plaintiff's Exhibit JE1 Transcript of the 54 16 E-mail: [email protected] deposition of By: JEFFREY PAGLIUCA, ESQ. 17 Ms. Maxwell taken on 17 April 22nd, 2016 18 18 On behalf of the Witness, Jeffrey Epstein: Plaintiff's Exhibit JE2 Document with titles 90 19 ATTERBURY GOLDBERGER & WEISS, P.A. 19 of books One Clearlake Centre, Suite 1400 20 Plaintiff's Exhibit JE3 Photograph depicting 101 20 250 Australian Avenue South Prince Andrew, West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 21 Maxwell, and Virginia 21 Phone: 561.659.8300 22 Plaintiff's Exhibit JE4 E-mail that Jeffrey 173 E-mail: [email protected] Epstein sent to 22 By: JACK A. GOLDBERGER, ESQ. 23 Maxwell on 23 -and- January 12th, 2015 24 24 25 (Appearances continued on the next page) 25 Page 3 Page 5 1 APPEARANCES: 1 Plaintiff's Composite E-mail Jeffrey 180 Exhibit JE5 Epstein received from 2 MARTIN G. WEINBERG, P.C. 2 Ms. Maxwell on about 20 Park Plaza, No. 1000 July 18th, 2009 3 3 Boston, Massachusetts 02116 Plaintiff's Exhibit JE6 E-mail string between 185 Phone: 617.227.3700 4 Jeffrey Epstein and Ms. Maxwell on about 4 E-mail: [email protected] 5 March 25th, 2011 By: MARTIN G. WEINBERG, P.C. 6 Plaintiff's Exhibit JE7 Transcription of a 189 string of e-mails 5 (Appearing telephonically) 7 between Jeffrey 6 Epstein and Ms. Maxwell in about May 7 ALSO PRESENT: 8 of 2011 8 RYAN KICK - Video Technician 9 9 DARLINE MARIE WEST - Court Stenographer Plaintiff's Exhibit JE8 E-mail that Jeffrey 191 10 Epstein sent to 10 Maxwell on - - - 11 January 15th, 2015 12 Plaintiff's Exhibit JE9 Document 361-46 on 210 11 the public record in 12 13 the case Jane Doe versus United States 13 14 908CD80736 in the 14 Southern District of 15 Florida, a document 15 signed by Gerald 16 16 Lefcourt and 17 Alan Dershowitz 17 18 Plaintiff's Exhibit Subpoena in this case 225 19 18 JE10 for Jeffrey Epstein to appear at 20 19 deposition 21 20 Plaintiff's Exhibit Transcript of Ms. 347 JE11 Maxwell, taken on 22 21 July 22, 2016 23 22 23 24 24 25 25 2 (Pages 2 to 5) MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1335-6 1338-1 Filed 01/09/24 01/10/24 Page 4 of 134 Page 6 Page 8 1 QUESTIONS MARKED BY THE REQUEST OF COUNSEL: 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 2 MR. GOLDBERGER: And Jack Goldberger on PAGE/LINES 3 3 behalf of the witness, Jeffrey Epstein. Page 69, lines 24 through 25 4 And on the phone is? 4 Page 70, lines 2 thorugh 16 5 MR. WEINBERG: Martin Weinberg by (At the request of Mr. Pagliuca) 6 telephone on behalf of the witness, 5 7 Jeffrey Epstein. 6 Page 280, lines 4 through 6 8 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: Will the court (At the request of Mr. Cassell) 7 9 reporter please swear the witness. 8 - - - 10 THE COURT REPORTER: Okay. Sir, could 9 11 you raise your right hand. 10 12 Do you swear to tell the truth, the 11 13 whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 12 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. 13 15 THEREUPON, 14 15 16 JEFFREY EDWARD EPSTEIN, 16 17 called as a witness on behalf of the Plaintiff 17 18 herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined 18 19 and testified as follows: 19 20 DIRECT EXAMINATION 20 21 BY MR. CASSELL: 21 22 22 Q. All right. Sir, you understand that my 23 23 client is Ms. Virginia Roberts Giuffre? 24 24 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'm sorry, 25 25 Mr. Cassell. Before we start, let -- let me Page 7 Page 9 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 PROCEEDINGS 2 just discuss something on the record. 3 - - - 3 I understand there's a protective order 4 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We are now on the 4 in place on this case concerning 5 record. This begins videotape No. 1 in the 5 confidentiality in this depositions. And as 6 deposition of Jeffrey Epstein in the matter 6 I understand the protective order, either 7 of Giuffre versus Maxwell. 7 party can designate the -- the proceeding as 8 Today is September 9th, 2016. The time 8 confidential, and I understand counsel for 9 is 8:35 a.m. This deposition is being taken 9 Miss Maxwell is going to do that in this 10 at 250 North Australian Avenue, West Palm 10 case. 11 Beach, Florida. The videographer is 11 MR. PAGLIUCA: That's correct. I'm 12 Ryan Kick. The court reporter is 12 designating this deposition as confidential. 13 Darline West. We both represent Magna Legal 13 Any other stips? 14 Services. 14 MR. GOLDBERGER: Huh? 15 Will counsel and all parties present 15 MR. PAGLIUCA: Any other stips? 16 state their appearance and whom they 16 MR. GOLDBERGER: No. We're good for 17 represent. 17 now. 18 MR. CASSELL: I can begin. My name's 18 MR. PAGLIUCA: Okay. 19 Paul Cassell, and I represent Miss Virginia 19 BY MR. CASSELL: 20 Giuffre. 20 Q. All right. Sir, you understand I'm an 21 MS. MCCAWLEY: Sigrid McCawley with 21 attorney representing Miss Roberts -- Virginia 22 Boies, Schiller & Flexner on behalf of 22 Roberts Giuffre? 23 Virginia Giuffre. 23 A. I've been advised by my counsel to assert 24 MR. PAGLIUCA: Jeff Pagliuca appearing 24 my rights under the Fifth Amendment of the United 25 on behalf Gwen Maxwell. 25 States Constitution as to any and all questions that 3 (Pages 6 to 9) MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1335-6 1338-1 Filed 01/09/24 01/10/24 Page 5 of 134 Page 10 Page 12 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 could result in a waiver of my Constitutional 2 answer would be edited and -- and would be 3 privileges. I understand that one of the basic 3 the full answer that Mr. Epstein gave to the 4 functions of the Fifth Amendment, according to the 4 first question. Really, your choice on that 5 United States Supreme Court, is to protect all 5 as to how you would like to proceed. 6 citizens, including even innocent persons who 6 MR. CASSELL: Yeah. Whatever you think 7 otherwise might be insnared by ambiguous 7 would be the fastest. I want to get through 8 circumstances. On the advice of counsel, I assert my 8 this. 9 rights under the Fifth Amendment and respectfully 9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. 10 decline to answer your question. 10 MR. CASSELL: And so, obviously, we'll 11 MR. CASSELL: Mr. Goldberger, it's your 11 be objecting to many of these invocations 12 position that having him acknowledge who my 12 already. 13 client is creates a realistic risk of 13 MR. GOLDBERGER: Sure. 14 incrimination? 14 MR. CASSELL: I think that these are 15 MR. GOLDBERGER: We're not going to 15 improper invocations, but if we're going to 16 debate at this deposition whether the 16 litigate that elsewhere, that certainly is 17 implication of the Fifth Amendment privilege 17 one way to proceed. 18 is proper or not proper. We are simply 18 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. So is it fair 19 asserting the privilege. And if that needs 19 to say we've reached an agreement that if 20 to be discussed or litigated somewhere else, 20 Mr. Epstein simply says, the Fifth, the 21 we'll be happy to do so, so... 21 answer that would be part of the record for 22 BY MR. CASSELL: 22 any time these proceedings are used anywhere 23 Q. If I refer to Virginia today, I want you to 23 would be the full invocation Mr. Epstein 24 understand that I'll be referring to my client, 24 used in answer to the first question? 25 Miss Virginia Roberts Giuffre. 25 MR. CASSELL: Yes. And I would at the Page 11 Page 13 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 Is that an acceptable way to proceed today, 2 -- I would then raise an objection to the 3 sir? 3 nonresponsive portion of the invocation, 4 A. As I stated before in response to my -- to 4 such as, for example, a reference to 5 your earlier question, I am asserting my 5 "innocent persons." It seems to me that's 6 constitutional right not to respond to that question. 6 not necessary for him to take the Fifth. 7 MR. GOLDBERGER: This would be a good 7 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. 8 opportunity, I think, to kind of discuss 8 MR. CASSELL: As long as we have your 9 ground rules for the implication of the 9 position and our position both stated all 10 Fifth Amendment -- 10 the time, that -- that seems like the most 11 MR. CASSELL: All right. 11 expeditious way to proceed. 12 MR. GOLDBERGER: -- as we proceed in 12 MR. WEINBERG: One other matter, a 13 this deposition. We've advised you off the 13 preliminary matter, which is that we would 14 record and it's not any surprise to anyone 14 reserve our right to particularize a full 15 that Mr. Epstein fully intends to invoke 15 basis based on the record of this case, the 16 Fifth Amendment privileges to all of your 16 record of the CVARC -- CVRA case, 17 questions. 17 representations that have been made by you 18 We can -- as we answer your questions, 18 and Mr. Edwards regarding Mr. Epstein and 19 and we'll be happy to answer all your 19 his potential criminal liability and your 20 questions, we can use the full invocation 20 intention to seek to rescind his 21 that we did in response to your first 21 non-prosecution agreement, the admissions 22 question, we can use the invocation that we 22 taken on the absence of the meaningful 23 just did in response to your second 23 Statute of Limitations, in terms of our 24 question, or we simply can say, Fifth 24 spelling out, if the Fifth Amendment is 25 Amendment, with the understanding that the 25 challenged in regards to any response by 4 (Pages 10 to 13) MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1335-6 1338-1 Filed 01/09/24 01/10/24 Page 6 of 134 Page 14 Page 16 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 Mr. Epstein, for instance, a response to 2 to be a citizen of? 3 whether he even recognizes the name of your 3 A. Fifth. 4 client, in the event you choose to challenge 4 Q. You understand that the case caption on the 5 the essential applicability of the 5 subpoena you received is Virginia Giuffre versus 6 long-standing Fifth Amendment privilege. 6 Ghislaine Maxwell? 7 MR. CASSELL: I'm going to object to 7 A. Fifth. 8 Mr. Weinberg defending the deposition in 8 Q. You know the Defendant in this case, 9 addition to Mr. Goldberg. My 9 Ghislaine Maxwell, true? 10 understanding of the rules -- 10 A. Fifth. 11 MR. GOLDBERGER: Goldberger. It's 11 Q. You first met Maxwell in the early 1990s; 12 Goldberger. 12 isn't that true? 13 MR. CASSELL: I'm sorry. I apologize. 13 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 14 Mr. Goldberger. 14 foundation. 15 It seems to me, the standard is one 15 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 16 lawyer for one witness. And Mr. Goldberger 16 MR. CASSELL: Let me make sure I 17 is a very capable lawyer, so it seems to me 17 understand. 18 Mr. Weinberg should not be allowed to 18 What's the objection to form? 19 participate by making objections. 19 MR. PAGLIUCA: The question is vague. 20 MR. PAGLIUCA: And for the record, I 20 BY MR. CASSELL: 21 have no objection to Mr. Epstein simply 21 Q. When did you first meet Ms. Maxwell? 22 saying, Fifth Amendment in response to any 22 A. Fifth. 23 questions and understand that that answer 23 Q. Where did you first meet Ms. Maxwell? 24 would incorporate all of the first answer 24 A. Fifth. 25 that Mr. Epstein gave in this deposition. 25 Q. What were the circumstances surrounding Page 15 Page 17 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 MR. GOLDBERGER: Thank you. 2 your first meeting of Maxwell? 3 BY MR. CASSELL: 3 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 4 Q. Sir, you've been deposed many times before, 4 foundation. 5 true? 5 THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the 6 A. Fifth. 6 question? 7 Q. You understand the rules regarding the 7 BY MR. CASSELL: 8 deposition today, true? 8 Q. What were the circumstances surrounding 9 A. Fifth. 9 your first meeting of Maxwell? 10 Q. You have legal counsel here today to 10 MR. PAGLIUCA: Same objection. 11 provide advice to you, should it be necessary at any 11 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 12 point, true? 12 MR. CASSELL: And when you say "form," you 13 A. True. 13 believe that the question that I just asked is 14 Q. Is there anything, including any physical 14 vague? 15 conditions or ailments, that would prevent you from 15 MR. PAGLIUCA: It is vague. I don't 16 giving truthful testimony today? 16 understand what "circumstances" means. It 17 A. Fifth. 17 lacks foundation, in that there hasn't been 18 Q. Please state your full name. 18 an establishment of any time or place of 19 A. Jeffrey Edward Epstein. 19 meeting of Ms. Maxwell or even that he knows 20 Q. Without disclosing where you may have lived 20 Ms. Maxwell under the circumstances of this 21 in the past, where do you currently reside? 21 deposition. 22 A. Fifth. 22 MR. CASSELL: Right. But you 23 Q. What state are you a citizen of? 23 understand there is evidence in the record 24 A. Can you clarify the question? 24 from which I would have a good faith basis 25 Q. Yeah. What state do you consider yourself 25 for believing that he has, in fact, met 5 (Pages 14 to 17) MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1335-6 1338-1 Filed 01/09/24 01/10/24 Page 7 of 134 Page 18 Page 20 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 Ms. Maxwell? 2 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 3 MR. PAGLIUCA: I'm not going to debate 3 BY MR. CASSELL: 4 what you have a good faith for believing or 4 Q. How long did your long-term relationship 5 not. My -- my objection stands. 5 with Maxwell continue? 6 MR. CASSELL: I'm just confused about 6 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 7 how there could be a lack of foundation for 7 foundation. 8 whether they have met, when your client 8 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 9 testified under oath that she had interacted 9 BY MR. CASSELL: 10 with Epstein repeatedly. 10 Q. You are currently in a relationship with 11 MR. PAGLIUCA: That's my objection. 11 Maxwell, true? 12 MR. CASSELL: All right. 12 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 13 BY MR. CASSELL: 13 foundation. 14 Q. Just so we're clear, the -- the question -- 14 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 15 let me just -- I may have asked this before, but I 15 BY MR. CASSELL: 16 want to make sure we haven't messed -- messed -- 16 Q. You currently have a joint defense 17 missed anything. 17 agreement with Maxwell, true? 18 What were the circumstances surrounding 18 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 19 your first meeting with Maxwell? 19 foundation. 20 MR. PAGLIUCA: Same objection. Form 20 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 21 and foundation. 21 BY MR. CASSELL: 22 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 22 Q. You currently have a common interest 23 BY MR. CASSELL: 23 agreement with Maxwell, true? 24 Q. And whenever I use the term "Maxwell" 24 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 25 today, I wanted it to be clear that I'm referring to 25 foundation. Page 19 Page 21 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 the Defendant in this action, Ghislaine Maxwell. 2 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 3 Would you consider yourself currently to be 3 BY MR. CASSELL: 4 the boyfriend of Ms. Maxwell? 4 Q. You understand that your interests and 5 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 5 Maxwell's interests are aligned in this case? 6 foundation. 6 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 7 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 7 foundation. 8 BY MR. CASSELL: 8 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 9 Q. Have you ever been a boyfriend of 9 BY MR. CASSELL: 10 Ms. Maxwell? 10 Q. What is your understanding of Maxwell's 11 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 11 interest in this case? 12 foundation. 12 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 13 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 13 foundation. 14 BY MR. CASSELL: 14 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 15 Q. It's true that at some point you had an 15 BY MR. CASSELL: 16 intimate relationship with Miss Maxwell? 16 Q. What is your understanding of your interest 17 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 17 in this case? 18 foundation. 18 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 19 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 19 foundation. 20 BY MR. CASSELL: 20 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 21 Q. You were in a long-term relationship with 21 BY MR. CASSELL: 22 Maxwell from the early '90s through -- through at 22 Q. Since the start of 2015, you have 23 least 2005, true? 23 communicated with Maxwell about how she can best 24 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 24 respond to allegations made by Virginia? 25 foundation. 25 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 6 (Pages 18 to 21) MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1335-6 1338-1 Filed 01/09/24 01/10/24 Page 8 of 134 Page 22 Page 24 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 foundation. 2 What was the nature of your objection 3 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 3 regarding common interest and joint defense 4 BY MR. CASSELL: 4 agreement, Mr. Weinberg? 5 Q. Without going into the substance of any 5 MR. WEINBERG: It was direct status 6 communications you have had, you've communicated with 6 asserting the attorney-client privilege as 7 Maxwell since December 30th, 2014, true? 7 well as the Fifth Amendment. I'm making no 8 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 8 representations regarding the existence of 9 foundation. 9 any agreement. 10 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 10 MR. CASSELL: All right. You also 11 MR. CASSELL: Can I understand what the 11 objected to my last question based on 12 objection is to form on that particular 12 foundation. What was the foundation 13 question? 13 objection? 14 MR. PAGLIUCA: Do you want to have the 14 MR. PAGLIUCA: There's multiple 15 reporter read it back? 15 foundational issues. We don't know the 16 MR. CASSELL: I can just give it to 16 source of any information that would be 17 you. 17 responsive to the question. It could 18 MR. PAGLIUCA: Sure. 18 contain hearsay and speculation. You know, 19 MR. CASSELL: "Without going into any 19 all of these questions, frankly, lack 20 substance of any communications that you 20 foundation under the circumstances here. 21 have had, you have communicated with Maxwell 21 Frankly, I don't believe that there -- it 22 since December 30th, 2014, true?" 22 will be a good faith basis for most of the 23 MR. PAGLIUCA: It's a leading question. 23 questions. I don't believe that most of 24 That's a form objection. 24 these questions will be supported by any 25 MR. CASSELL: All right. So can we 25 independent evidence. Page 23 Page 25 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 just -- 2 This is simply an exercise for you, 3 MR. WEINBERG: And I would add a 3 Mr. Cassell, to use leading questions to try 4 further objection, which is to the extent 4 to obtain some adverse inference and 5 that any conversations which were pursuant 5 advantage in this litigation, when you know 6 to a common interest agreement, you would 6 that this witness is going to blanketly 7 assert the attorney-client privilege as well 7 assert a Fifth Amendment privilege. 8 as the Fifth Amendment. 8 Frankly, I see no point in actually 9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Right. So that 9 having this deposition since all of these 10 objection we're making as to attorney-client 10 issues are going to need to be litigated 11 privilege in no way waives the Fifth 11 before the court before we can actually have 12 Amendment privilege that has been raised to 12 a determination of what Mr. Epstein may or 13 the question. 13 may not testify about, so... 14 MR. CASSELL: Mr. Weinberg, since 14 MR. CASSELL: My specific question, 15 you're participating over my objection, can 15 though, is -- the question I asked Epstein 16 you confirm that there is a joint defense 16 was, "Without going into the substance of 17 agreement between your client and 17 any communications that you have had, you 18 Ms. Maxwell? 18 have communicated with Maxwell since 19 MR. PAGLIUCA: I'm going to object to 19 December 30th, 2014?" 20 any interrogation of Mr. Weinberg. He's not 20 Since your client has testified under 21 been noticed for a deposition, he's not 21 oath that she did indeed have communications 22 under oath, and he's not present here. 22 with Epstein since December 30th, 2014, I 23 MR. CASSELL: I'm just trying to 23 can't understand why that question would 24 understand the objection so that I can avoid 24 lack a foundation. 25 it in any future questions. 25 MR. PAGLIUCA: Well, I -- I've made my 7 (Pages 22 to 25) MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1335-6 1338-1 Filed 01/09/24 01/10/24 Page 9 of 134 Page 26 Page 28 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 record. It -- it is lacking in foundation. 2 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 3 MR. CASSELL: All right. 3 foundation. 4 BY MR. CASSELL: 4 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 5 Q. Without going into the substance of any 5 BY MR. CASSELL: 6 communications that you have had, you have 6 Q. You are a registered sex offender, correct? 7 communicated with Maxwell since September 21st, 2015, 7 A. Fifth. 8 true? 8 Q. In previous depositions, you have stated 9 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 9 that you are a registered sex offender, true? 10 foundation. 10 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 11 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 11 foundation. 12 BY MR. CASSELL: 12 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 13 Q. How many communications have you had with 13 BY MR. CASSELL: 14 Ms. Maxwell since December 30th, 2014? 14 Q. In June 2008, in open court, you pled 15 A. Fifth. 15 guilty to two Florida State felonies, correct? 16 Q. What methods of communications have you 16 A. Fifth. 17 used when talking to Maxwell in the last two years? 17 Q. You were sworn to tell the truth in those 18 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 18 public proceedings, true? 19 foundation. 19 A. Fifth. 20 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 20 Q. In open court, what did you testify that 21 BY MR. CASSELL: 21 you had done? 22 Q. What e-mail accounts have you used in your 22 A. Fifth. 23 communications with Maxwell? 23 Q. And in my previous question, I'm referring 24 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 24 to the plea proceeding that was in about June 25 foundation. 25 of 2008. Did you understand my question? Page 27 Page 29 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 2 A. Yes. 3 BY MR. CASSELL: 3 Q. In open court, what things did you say in 4 Q. What e-mail accounts has Maxwell used in 4 that hearing? 5 her communications with you? 5 A. Fifth. 6 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 6 Q. Did you tell the truth in that hearing? 7 foundation. 7 A. Fifth. 8 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 8 Q. Did you tell the court that you accepted 9 BY MR. CASSELL: 9 responsibility for those crimes? 10 Q. What is your cell phone number, sir? 10 A. Fifth. 11 A. Fifth. 11 Q. Were you accepting responsibility for those 12 Q. How many cell phones do you have? 12 crimes? 13 A. Fifth. 13 A. Fifth. 14 Q. Please provide all of the cell phone 14 Q. Why were you accepting responsibility for 15 numbers that you currently have access to? 15 those crimes? 16 A. Fifth. 16 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 17 Q. Please provide all the cell phone numbers 17 foundation. 18 that you had access to in 2000 and 2001? 18 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 19 A. Fifth. 19 BY MR. CASSELL: 20 Q. Please provide all of the e-mail accounts 20 Q. Did you apologize to the victim of your 21 that you had access to in 2000 and 2001. 21 crimes? 22 A. Fifth. 22 A. Fifth. 23 Q. Please provide all of the e-mail accounts 23 Q. One of the crimes to which you pled guilty 24 that, to your knowledge, Ms. Maxwell had access to in 24 in open court was soliciting a minor for 25 2000 and 2001. 25 prostitution, true? 8 (Pages 26 to 29) MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1335-6 1338-1 Filed 01/09/24 01/10/24 Page 10 of 134 Page 30 Page 32 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 2 BY MR. CASSELL: 3 foundation. 3 Q. What did you do that led you to plead 4 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 4 guilty? 5 BY MR. CASSELL: 5 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 6 Q. Please describe how the solicitation to 6 foundation. 7 which you pled guilty was accomplished. 7 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 8 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 8 BY MR. CASSELL: 9 foundation. 9 Q. What was your understanding of the legal 10 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 10 crime to which you were pleading guilty? 11 MR. CASSELL: Can you tell me what the form 11 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 12 objection was to that? 12 foundation. 13 MR. PAGLIUCA: Please tell me how the 13 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 14 solicitation was accomplished? 14 BY MR. CASSELL: 15 MR. CASSELL: Yes. 15 Q. What was your understanding of what you 16 MR. PAGLIUCA: Okay. Well, you're 16 were admitting in open court that day? 17 asking for a legal definition from this lay 17 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 18 witness as to solicitation, how it was 18 foundation. 19 accomplished. I don't know what that means. 19 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 20 Your question is vague, it's ambiguous, it 20 BY MR. CASSELL: 21 calls for a legal conclusion. It's also 21 Q. Now, with regard to the two crimes that you 22 lacking in foundation. 22 pled guilty, where did those two crimes take place? 23 MR. CASSELL: Because? 23 A. Fifth. 24 MR. PAGLIUCA: Well, as I understand 24 Q. And I suppose there could be a form 25 it, your position is that he pled guilty to 25 objection to that question being compound. So to Page 31 Page 33 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 made-up crimes that didn't have a factual 2 obviate any issue, I'm going to ask you, was one of 3 basis and this was a conspiracy between 3 the victims in that case a girl who was 14 years old 4 Mr. Epstein and the U.S. Attorney's Office 4 who we could identify by initials S.G.? 5 to avoid prosecution for federal criminal 5 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 6 charges, which is the basis for your 6 foundation. 7 challenge to -- in the CVRA litigation, as I 7 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 8 understand your pleadings. So I'm not 8 MR. CASSELL: And Mr. Goldberger, is -- if 9 exactly sure how you can actually have a 9 we refer to the victim in -- I believe it was 10 good faith basis for asking that question, 10 Count 1 or at least one of the accounts by S.G. 11 given your position in writing. 11 Is that an acceptable way to proceed rather 12 MR. CASSELL: All right. You've 12 than putting her name into the record, or could 13 mischaracterized our position. And I 13 I write her name out and provide that to you and 14 imagine we'll have to discuss that later. 14 your client? What would you -- I want to avoid 15 MR. PAGLIUCA: Sure. 15 putting the names of 14-year-old sex victims 16 MR. CASSELL: Since there were 16 into the transcript here. 17 objections to form, let me just try to ask a 17 MR. GOLDBERGER: It's your deposition. 18 series of questions, then, to avoid the form 18 MR. CASSELL: All right. So what I'm 19 objection. 19 going -- 20 BY MR. CASSELL: 20 BY MR. CASSELL: 21 Q. How did you accomplish the crime that you 21 Q. Sir, you understand when I use the term 22 pled guilty to? 22 "S.G." who I'm referring to, true? 23 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 23 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 24 foundation. 24 foundation. 25 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 25 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 9 (Pages 30 to 33) MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1335-6 1338-1 Filed 01/09/24 01/10/24 Page 11 of 134 Page 34 Page 36 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 1 J. Epstein - Confidential 2 MR. CASSELL: And what I'm going to do is 2 BY MR. CASSELL: 3 write the name of the victim and provide that to 3 Q. Isn't it true, sir, that the solicitation 4 Mr. Goldberger and to Mr. Pagliuca now, so that 4 of S.G. occurred in your Florida -- or I should say, 5 when I use the term "S.G.," both Mr. Goldberger 5 Palm Beach mansion? 6 and Mr. Pagliuca will have that. 6 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 7 MR. GOLDBERGER: Thank you. 7 foundation. 8 MR. CASSELL: And if you -- and then we 8 THE WITNESS: Fifth. 9 should also provide that, of course, now to 9 BY MR. CASSELL: 10 Mr. Epstein, so that he'll -- 10 Q. Who was regularly in your Palm Beach 11 MR. GOLDBERGER: He's --