gov.uscourts.nysd.447706.1331.10.pdf

Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 1 of 15 EXHIBITD Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 2 of 15 Page 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTR I CT OF NEW YORK CASE NO . 15- CV-07433-RWS ------------------------------------------x VIRGI NIA L. GIUFFRE, Pl aintiff, v. GHISLAINE MAXWELL, Defenda n t. -- ----------------------------------------x June 20, 2016 9:12 a .m. CONFIDENT I A ' L Deposit ion of pursuant to notice, taken b y Plai ntif f, at the offices o f Podhurs t Orseck, 25 Wes t Flagler Street, Su ite 800, Miami , Florida , before Kelli Ann Wi l lis, a Registered Pro f essional Repo r ter, Certified Realtime Repo rte r and No tar y Pub l ic within and f or t he State of Florida . MAGNA9 L EGAL SERVI CES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 3 of 15 Page 2 2 3 4 APPEARANCES: 5 BOIES SCHILLER & FLEXNER, LLP Attorneys for Plaintiff 6 401 East Las Olas Boulevard Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 7 BY: BRADLEY EDWARDS, ESQ. 8 9 HADDON MORGAN & FOREMAN, P.C. Attorneys for Defendant 10 150 East 10th Avenue Denver, Colorado 80203 11 BY: JEFFREY PAGLIUCA, ESQ. 12 13 PODHURST ORSECK, P.A. Attorneys for Deponent 14 25 West Flagler Street Suite 800 15 Miami, Florida 33130 BY: ROBERT JOSEFSBURG, ESQ. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAGNA& LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 4 of 15 Page 3 2 3 I N D E X 4 Examination by Mr. Edwards 4 Examination by Mr. Pagliuca 57 5 Further Examination by Mr. Edwards ............. 68 6 7 8 E X H I B I T S 9 Deposition Exhibit 1 6 Police Interview 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 5 of 15 Page 8 2 spoke to po l ice? 3 A. No, sir. I just want to make i t very -- 4 pardon me. I didn ' t mean to interrupt. 5 MR. JOSEFSBURG: Let me explain something 6 to both of you. 7 MR. EDWARDS : Sure. 8 MR. JOS EFSBURG : And for t he reco r d , ~ 9 has, since these events of 12 years ago, 10 received a lot of professional adv ice and gone 11 through an awful lot based upon what ha ppened 12 12 years ago. 13 She has been advised and has followed the 14 advice to forget, suppress, repress what 15 happened , and that's how she goes on with her 16 life . 17 So she doesn' t remember a lot of things , 18 and she doesn ' t want to remember them. So you 19 might interpret in other matters as hostil i ty 20 from a witness. This is called 21 self-preservation and mental hea l th . 22 So both her attitude and her memory is 23 based on that. We have someone who is badly 24 in jured and is very frail and wan t s to take 25 care of herself. So you might th i nk it's MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 6 of 15 Page 9 1 - CONFIDENT I AL 2 sn i ppy , but it ' s j us t that she -- 3 THE WITNESS : I tru l y don ' t know the 4 answers to your questions if I say I don ' t . 5 I'm try i ng to answer everyt hing I know. 6 BY MR. EDWARDS : 7 Q. I ca n appr ec i a t e that . 8 Whe n you s p oke with po lice officers back 9 in October of 2005 , did you tel l them the tru t h ? 10 MR . PAGL I UCA : Object t o form and 11 fo u ndati o n . 12 THE WI TNESS : Of course , yes . 13 BY MR. EDWARDS : 14 Q. Okay . And do you remember some one 15 named -- I th i nk it ' s spelled p h onet i cally in 16 here -- Shana Jasmine or somet h i ng along t hose 17 line s , Sha na Casman? 18 A. No , I do not recal l . 19 Q. Do you remember a fr iend of yours being i n 20 the room when you spoke wi th t h e police? 21 A. No , I do not . 22 Q. Do y ou r emember how ma n y po l ice o fficers 23 you spoke wi th ? 24 A. Over the course of all the yea r s? 25 Q. That p a r ticular invest i gation . MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 7 of 15 Page 1 6 1 - CONFIDENTIAL 2 know the ex t ent of their relat ions hip . But she 3 would schedule his appointments and handle clerical 4 th ings for him as far as I can see. 5 Q. All right . 6 And when you firs t went to his house, 7 where did -- where were you ta ken within the house? 8 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to form and 9 foundation. 10 THE WITNESS: Kitchen , up to the room, up 11 to his master suite. 12 BY MR. EDWARDS : 13 Q. And which stairwell did you go up to his 14 suite? 15 A. I do not remember. 16 Q. Was it the stairs off by the kitche n? 17 A. I do not recall. 18 Q. And when you went into h is bedroom, were 19 you under the belie f that it was going to be you 20 providing some sort of a massage? 21 A. It certainly didn't i nvo lve any sexua l 22 activity. Tha t 's what I was under the assumption. 23 I don ' t reca ll exact l y how I was propositioned to 24 get there. I j ust was there , a nd all of a sudden 25 something horribl e happened to me. MAGNA9 L EGAL SERV ICE S Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 8 of 15 Page 17 1 - CONFIDENTIAL 2 Q. Did you , at 1 6 years o ld o r 17 years old, 3 have any massage traini ng or expe rienc e? 4 A. No . 5 Q. Did have any massage 6 experience? 7 A. I do no t -- I can ' t speak to her 8 expe ri ence . I do not know . She was no t really a 9 fr ie nd of mine. Barely an acqua i ntance . We maybe 10 spoke three time s i n our entire going to schoo l 11 tog ethe r and e verything . 12 Q. Did you ever learn what her incen t i ve was 13 to bring you to Jef fr ey Eps t ein ' s house? 14 A. Later I found out that they would get 15 kickbacks for b ring i ng people over. 16 Q. Do you remembe r seeing J effrey Eps t ei n 17 give he r money that day? 18 A. I don't recall, no . 19 Q. If you said that in your s t atement, that 20 you remember - gett ing money for bringing you 21 here t hat day, would that be a t r ue statement? 22 A. Yes, absolut el y. Everyth ing in there i s 23 t he truth. I do no t remember from yea r s ago a t th is 24 po int . 25 MR . PAGLIUCA : Ob jec t to form and MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 9 of 15 Page 18 2 foundatio n. 3 BY MR . EDWARDS: 4 Q. If you want to 5 A. I don 't . It's o kay . 6 Q. I understand . 7 A. Thank you. 8 Q. On page 6 , you ' re tel l ing the police that 9 " - and me were waiting o n the couch in the 10 bathroom, and Jeffrey comes up and says -- he ' s 11 l i ke, Hey, I' m Je f frey . He j u s t i ntroduced himself, 12 and h e hands - - - I remember this because I was 13 pissed off that she got paid to bring me. He hands 14 her a wad of hundred dol l ar bills and says , Thank 15 you . And s h e says, I'll wait for you downstairs . 16 And I was like , All right , I ' ll see you in a little 17 bit. " 18 Does that remind you of - get t ing 19 paid t o b ri ng you? 20 MR . PAGLIUCA: Objec t to form and 21 foundation . 22 THE WITNESS: It sounds like a fam il iar 23 scenari o. I do not recall at this time . 24 BY MR . EDWARDS: 25 Q. Okay . MAGNA& LEG.A L S E RVIC E S Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 10 of 15 Page 19 1 - CONFIDENTIAL 2 A. I don ' t remember. 3 Q. I appreciate t hat. 4 MR . JOSEFSBURG: I 'l l ma ke it easier for 5 both of you. Here's her test i mony . As you 6 notice, she ' s not l ooking at this . She doesn't 7 want to look at it. 8 MR. EDWARDS: Yeah. 9 MR. JOSEFSBURG: She doesn ' t want to read 10 it . But this is a statement that she gave to 11 t he police . She's saying that whatever she 12 said in it is true . Does she remember it now? 13 No, because she has done a good job of 14 forgetting it. But if she said it, she said 15 the truth. And when you r ead i t to he r now -- 16 THE WITNESS: These are things I forgot. 17 MR. EDWARDS: It ' s not going to refresh 18 her . 19 MR. J OSEFSBURG : She doesn't want to 20 remember. So everything in it is true; she can 21 te l l you without l ooking at it. She doesn ' t 22 want to look at it and she doesn't remember it . 23 Mos t of the important details that e ithe r 24 of you a r e l ooking for, she ' ll say i t ' s the 25 truth but I don't remembe r that. MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 11 of 15 Page 20 1 - CONFIDENTIAL 2 MR. EDWARDS : Okay . I can appreciate 3 t hat . 4 MR . PAGLIUCA : Counsel , I a p p rec iate the 5 reco rd and I apprec ia te the clarification. So 6 as you know , I mean, t here ma y be an attempt to 7 use any of th i s transcript as substa nti ve 8 ev idence at trial . So while I accept your 9 representation , I don' t belie v e i t la ys a ny 10 fo u ndation for any of the s ta tement s to t he 11 pol ice depa rtment . It doesn ' t lay any 12 foundation as to the trut h or non- t r u th as to 13 the stateme nt . 14 As I understand it, the wi tness has n o 15 present recollection o f these e ve nts. Looking 16 at this sta tement would not refre s h her 17 recol lection, is what has been established on 18 the record. The witness doe sn ' t want to l ook 19 at the sta tement. And the witness' testimony 20 will be that she has no reco l l ection of t h e se 21 events; is that correct ? 22 MR . JOS EFSBURG : Ev er yth ing you said i s 23 correc t, wi th one other addition: That 24 whatever she said to the police back t h en was 25 t he tru th. MAGNA& LEGAL SERVI C E S Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 12 of 15 Page 21 1 - CONFIDENTIAL 2 MR . PAGLIUCA : That's whe r e we may have a 3 disagreement . 4 MR. JOSEFSBURG : Oka y, but that ' s wh a t s he 5 sa i d . 6 MR . PAGLI UCA : I understand , bu t s he did 7 testify to tha t e arl i er . I accep t that . 8 MR . JOSE FSBURG: Ri ght. She doesn 't 9 remember and doesn ' t wan t to . 10 MR . PAGLIUCA : Understood . 11 MR . EDWARDS : I wi l l procee d under t hose 12 parame t e rs . I got i t. 13 MR . JOSEFSBURG: By t he way, j ust so -- is 14 wha t I j ust sa i d correct? 15 THE WI TNESS : Abso l ute l y , ye s . Thank you . 16 BY MR . EDWARDS : 17 Q. Wh e n yo u gave the s t a t e men t to the pol i ce , 18 was your motiva t i on to tell t he t rut h ? 19 A. Yes . 20 MR . PAGLIUCA : Object to the form and 21 f o unda ti on. 22 THE WITNESS : Ye s , i t was , abso l ut e l y. 23 BY MR . EDWARDS : 24 Q. Di d you ha v e any mo ti vatio n in any part of 25 it not to tel l the trut h? MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 13 of 15 Page 57 2 Eps t e in? 3 MR. PAGLIUCA: Obj ect to form and 4 founda t ion. 5 THE WI TNESS : Yes. 6 MR . EDWARDS : Al l r i ght . I don ' t have 7 anything fur t he r for you . I apologize that we 8 even had t o go through this, all r i gh t? 9 THE WI TNESS : Okay. 10 EXAM I NATION 11 BY MR . PAGL I UCA : 12 Q. • - by name i s J eff Pagluica . I 13 li ve in Denver, Colorado. And , like you, I don't 14 want to be here t oday either, okay? I would r a t her 15 be in Denve r . 16 I just want to -- as I understand it, and 17 I ' m not tryi ng to ge t i n to any of your treatment 18 over the last, l et's say, 10 years, because I don 't 19 know how lo ng it's been, but as I u nde r stand what 20 you and your lawyer have said here t oday , yo u have 21 been i nvolved in some n umber of years of therapy , i n 22 which the purpose -- part o f t he purpose o f th e 23 the r apy has bee n to forget a l l of these events tha t 24 Mr . Edwards was ask i ng you ques ti ons about ; is t hat 25 correct ? MAGNA9 L EGAL SERVICES  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 14 of 15 Page 58 1 - CONFIDENTIAL 2 A. How specifi c do I have to get about my 3 doctors ' app oi n tments? I don ' t really -- 4 Q. I' m not asking -- 5 MR. JOSEFS B0RG : Not at a l l . 6 BY MR . PAGLI0CA : 7 Q. I ' m not asking t hose questions . I ' m jus t 8 a s king , if, as your lawye r has said -- 9 A. I unde r stand the question . 10 Part of t h e t herapy, yes , it did encompass 11 copings skills , and this is the one I have c hosen to 12 use . 13 Q. Which is, I don't want to reme mber 14 anything? 15 A. Yes . Rep r ession . I do n' t want to 16 reminisce . 17 Q. And yo u indi c a ted as you sit here tod ay , 18 you don ' t reca l l specifics related to these events? 19 A. Tha t' s correct . I have worked very h a r d 20 not to . 21 Q. Back in 2005 , and , aga i n , if you have no 22 recollection of these things , that ' s fine , you were 1 23 contacted by a Detective Reca r ey. j l 24 Do you recall t hat or not? i l 25 A. No, I don ' t . ! j l It ! l .! i MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1331-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 15 of 15 Page 71 1 - CONFI DENTIAL 2 CERT I FICATE OF OATH 3 STATE OF FLORI DA ) 4 COUNTY OF MIAM I -DADE ) 5 I, the unders i gned autho r ity, certify that 6 personally appeared befo r e me and was du l y sworn. 7 WITNESS my hand and official seal this 23rd day of Ju ne, 2016 . 8 9 Kell i Ann Wi l lis, RPR, CRR 10 No t a r y Publ i c, State of Florida Commission FF92829 1 , Expires 2- 1 6-20 11 + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 12 CERTIFICAT E 13 STATE OF FLORIDA ) 14 COUNTY OF MIAMI-DADE) 15 I, Ke l li Ann Wi lli s, Reg i stered Professiona l Reporte r and Certified Real t ime 16 Reporter do hereby certify tha t I was autho riz ed t o a nd did s t e nographicall y report the 17 foregoing deposition o f • that a revi ew o f t h e t r anscr i p t was no t r equested; and 18 t h a t the transcript i s a true record of my s tenog ra phic note s . 19 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a re l ative, e mployee, a t to r ney, or counse l of any 20 of the par t ies, nor am I a relative or employee of any o f the pa r ties' attorn e y or couns e l con nected 21 with t he action , no r am I fi n ancial l y in t eres t ed in the act i on. 22 Dated this 23 r d day o f J une, 2016 . 23 24 KELLI ANN WI LL IS, RPR, CRR 25 MAGNA9 L EGAL SERVI CES