gov.uscourts.nysd.447706.1328.10.pdf

Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 1 of 23 COMPOSITE EXHIBIT 3 (Filed Under Seal) Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 2 of 23 Confidential Page 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X VIRGINIA L . GIUFFRE , Plaintiff , Case No . : -against - 15-cv-07433-RWS GHISLAINE MAXWELL , Defendant . ----- --- - - x **CONFIDENTIAL** Continued Videotaped Deposition of GHISLAINE MAXWELL, the Defendant herein taken pursuant to subpoena, was held at the law offices of Boies, Schiller & Flexner, LLP, 575 Lexington Avenue , New York, New York, commencing July 22 , 2016, 9:04 a.m. , on the above date , before Leslie Fagin, a Court Reporter and Notary Public in the State of New York . MAGNA LEGAL SERVICES 12 00 Avenue of the Americas New York, New York 10026 ( 866 ) 624 - 6221 MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 3 of 23 Confidential Page 18 1 G . Maxwell - Confidential 2 A. I think everyone here can 3 understand what intercourse is , is when you 4 have sex. I don't know how to say 5 intercourse any other way, having sex wi th 6 somebody. Perhaps you would like to define 7 it for me . 8 Q. I ' m trying to get your definition 9 right now because you are the witness. When 10 you use the term intercourse , what are you 11 referring to? 12 A. I'm referring to a penis entering 13 someone ' s vagina. 14 Q. Now, have you ever engaged in oral 15 sex? 16 A. In my life? 17 MR . PAGLIUCA: There are specific 18 areas that the court has allowed inquiry 19 into, and those are delineated in the 20 court ' s order of June 2 0 th. The 21 open-ended 11 Have you ever engaged in 22 oral sex" is not part of the court ' s 23 order at page 10 , and the court 24 specifically indicated that sexual 25 activity of third parties who bear no MAGNA·9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 4 of 23 Confidential Page 2 0 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 anyone in any of Mr. Epstein ' s five homes 3 that you have identified? 4 A. Yes . 5 Q. With whom? 6 A. Mr. Epstein . 7 Q. Did you ever have oral sex with 8 anyone in any of Mr. Epstein ' s five homes 9 that you've identified other than 10 Mr. Epstein? 11 MR. PAGLIUCA : I ' m going to 12 instruct you not to answer, unless you 13 tie it to a specific individual related 14 to this case per the court ' s order . 15 MR. BOIES: I think the court ' s 16 order specifically permits this question 17 wi th respect to occasions related to 18 this case. If you instruct her not to 19 answer, all you ' re going to do is bring 20 her back. That ' s up to you . 21 MR. PAGLIUCA : It's up to you as 22 the questioner, Mr. Boies. The court ' s 23 order says the defendant need not answer 24 questions that relate to none of these 25 subjects or that is clearly not relevant MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 5 of 23 Confidential Page 78 1 G . Maxwell - Confidential 2 Johanna? 3 A. I would not know . I would say no . 4 Q. Did you engage in sexual activities 5 with Johanna? 6 A . No . 7 Q. Do you know how Johanna came to 8 know Mr Epstein? 9 A. I met her at her university and she 10 came to answer phones. 11 Q. When you say she came to answer 12 phones , where? 13 A. In Palm Beach 14 Q. At Mr. Epstein ' s home in Palm 15 Beach? 16 A. Yes . 17 Q. So is it fair to say that Johanna 18 was initially hired to answer telephones , 19 according to your testimony? 20 MR. PAGLIUCA: This has already 21 been test i fied to Mr. Boies . We are 22 repeating testimony now. 23 MR. BOIES: I think in the context 24 of the witness 1 answers , these are fair 25 questions. MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 6 of 23 Confidential Page 79 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 Now, I ' ve asked you before , if you 3 want to instruct her not to answer, if 4 you want to go to the judge , we are 5 happy to do that, but I would suggest , 6 in the interest of moving it along, that 7 you stop these speeches . 8 MR. PAGLIUCA: You are not moving 9 it along is the problem , so maybe we 10 should call the court and get some 11 direction here, because I am not going 12 to sit here and rehash the testimony we 13 already gave. 14 MR . BOIES : That ' s fine . 15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER : The time is 16 1 0: 51 a .m. and we are going off the 17 record. 18 (Whereupon , an off-the record 19 discussion was held . ) 20 THE VIDEOGRAPHER : The time is 21 10:56 a.m. and we are going back on the 22 record. This begins DVD No . 3 . 23 MR. BOIES : We have just had a call 24 with Judge Sweet ' s chambers, Judge Sweet 25 is not available and his chambers MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 7 of 23 Confidential Page 81 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 or argue this in front of Judge Sweet. 3 But I will simply start referring 4 you back to the transcript and 5 instructing the witness not to answer 6 when I think we are getting into some 7 things that have been asked and answered 8 already . 9 MR. BOIES : Exactly the procedure 10 that I have proposed from the beginning . 11 If you think a question is out of 12 bounds , instruct not to answer and we 13 will then let the judge decide it . 14 BY MR. BOIES: 15 Q. How did it happen , Ms . Maxwell , 16 that Johanna, who had been hired to answer 17 the phones, ended up giving massages to you 18 and Mr. Epstein? 19 MR. PAGLIUCA: I ' m going to 20 instruct you not to answer the question ~ 21 This has been previously, the subject of 22 your former deposition, it doesn't fall 23 into any of the categories ordered by 24 the court, and so you don ' t need to 25 answer that. MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 8 of 23 Confidential Page 82 1 G . Maxwell - Confidential 2 Q. Was Johanna paid for the massages 3 that she gave you? 4 A. I didn ' t pay her , so I believe she 5 was paid . 6 Q. Who paid her? 7 A. I don 1 t know who paid her . 8 MR. PAGLIUCA : Again, you ' ve 9 already answered that there was no 10 sexual activity between yourself and 11 Mr. Epstein related to these massages 12 That's record testimony today. That's 13 within the scope of the court ' s order . 14 The rest of this is out side the scope of 15 the court ' s order, and I instruct you 16 not to answer. 17 MR. BOIES : You are taking the 18 position that as long as she said says 19 that a massage did not involve sexual 20 activity, we cannot ask about massages . 21 That ' s your view? 22 MR. PAGLIUCA : On this particular 23 questioning , yes . 24 BY MR. BOIES: 25 Q. Did Mr. Epstein pay Johanna for the MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 9 of 23 Confidential Page 83 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 massages that she gave Mr. Epste in? 3 MR. PAGLIUCA: You just asked this 4 question , and I told her not to answer. 5 I will tell her not to answer again for 6 the same reasons 7 Q. Do you know how much Mr . Epstein 8 paid Johanna to give massages? 9 MR PAGLIUCA: Same instruction to 10 the witness. Why do you believe this is 11 within the scope of the court 1 s order? 12 MR. BOIES: Because of the court 1 s 13 reference to massages , and because I 14 think how much a girl who was hired to 15 answer the phone was paid to give a 16 "ma ssage" goes to whether there actually 17 was or was not sexual activity involved . 18 MR. PAGLIUCA: The witness has 19 testified there wasn't. 20 MR. BOIES: Perhaps it will 21 surprise you, I think it should not , 22 that I do not believe in my deposition I 23 need to simply accept her 24 characterization without 25 cross-examination. Now, that ' s MAGNA& LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 10 of 23 Confidential Page 84 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 something the judge can decide . but a 3 question as to how much this young girl 4 was being paid for a "massage " , I think 5 goes directly to the issue of sexual 6 activity 7 MR. PAGLIUCA: Here is the problem, 8 Mr. Boies , at the first deposition, 9 there were very limited instructions not 10 to answer and the witness was not told 11 not to answer questions about how much 12 people were paid or not paid or any of 13 those subject matters. The witness was 14 only instructed not to answer about 15 sexual activity concerning adults in the 16 home . 17 None of this came up during the 18 deposition, and you just don•t get a 19 chance to redo the deposition because 20 you feel like you want to . 21 So the judge 1 s order is in the 22 context of the instructions to the 23 witness not to answer in the first 24 deposition, which is simply sexual 25 activity involving adults, which was the MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 11 of 23 Confidential Page 89 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 were sex toys or devices used in sexual 3 activities in Mr . Epstein ' s property in the 4 Vi rgin Islands? 5 MR. PAGLIUCA : Obj ection to form 6 and foundation . 7 A. No . 8 Q. Do you know whether Mr . Epstein 9 possessed sex toys or devices used in sexual 10 activities? 11 MR. PAGLIUCA: Obj e ction to form 12 and foundation . 13 A. No. 14 Q. Did you ever assist Mr Epstein in 15 obtaining sex toys or devices used in sexual 16 activities? 17 MR . PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 18 and foundation 19 A. No. 20 Q. In the 199 0 s and 2 000 s , did you 21 ever have possession of or use sex toys or 22 devices used in sexual activities? 23 A. No . 24 Q. Did you, in the 199 0 s and 2 00 0s , 25 engage in sexual activities other than MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 12 of 23 Confidential Page 90 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 intercourse with women other than what you 3 have testified to already? 4 MR. PAGLIUCA: First of all , I 5 object to the form and foundation and 6 it's also outside of the court ' s order 7 because it's unclear as you question, 8 and I specifically direct you to the 9 last line of the court's order: Sexual 10 activity of third parties who bear no 11 knowledge or relation to key events , 12 individuals or locations in this case . 13 MR . BOIES : This simply asks yes or 14 no , and I think that it is an 15 appropriate question given some of the 16 witness ' prior answers, but there is no 17 point in debating it, because if you 18 instruct her not to answer, the judge 19 will decide whether it's appropriate _ 20 MR. PAGLIUCA: I'm just telling you 21 if you tie it to something in this case , 22 I will let her answer . 23 MR. BOIES: Are you instructing her 24 not to answer? 25 MR. PAGLIUCA : Yes , unless you tie MAGNA8 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 13 of 23 Confidential Page 99 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 A. I don ' t recal l ever hearing such a 3 thing. 4 Q. You know Mr . Les Wexner , correct? 5 A. I do. 6 Q. Do you know whether or not Maria 7 Farmer was ever at Mr . Wexner ' s property in 8 Ohio? 9 MR. PAGLIUCA: Can you tell me how 10 that relates to this order, counselor? 11 MR. BOIES: Yes , I think it goes 12 directly to the sexual activity related 13 to Maria Farmer and what Mr . Epstein was 14 doing with Maria Farmer . 15 Again, you can instruct not to 16 answer. 17 MR. PAGLIUCA : I ' m trying to 18 understand why you are asking these 19 questions before I 20 MR. BOIES: I ' m asking these 21 questions because these are people who 22 not only have been publicly written 23 about in terms of the sexual activity 24 that they were put into in connection 25 with Mr. Epstein, but the person who MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 14 of 23 Confidential Page 100 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 wrote about them is somebody who talked 3 to this witness about it, and I think 4 that this is more than easily understood 5 cross-examination . 6 MR. PAGLIUCA: Your question was , 7 do you know whether or not Maria Farmer 8 was ever at Mr. Wexner ' s property in 9 Ohio . 10 MR . BOIES : Yes . And if you let 11 her answer, you will see where it leads 12 If you won ' t let her answer, the judge 13 is going to determine it . And I just 14 suggest to you that you stop these 15 speeches and stop debating, because you 16 are not going to convince me not to 17 follow-up on these questions . If you 18 can convince the court to truncate the 19 deposition, that ' s your right , but all 20 you ' re doing is dragging this deposition 21 out . 22 MR. PAGLIUCA: You have the 23 opportunity to give me a good faith 24 basis why you are asking these 25 questions . MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 15 of 23 Confidential Page 101 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 MR. BOIES: I have given you a good 3 faith basis. 4 MR. PAGLIUCA: You haven ' t. 5 MR. BOIES: Then instruct not to 6 answer. 7 MR. PAGLIUCA: I am giving you the 8 opportunity to say why you are asking 9 the question, and why I'm telling her 10 not to answer and I am entitled to know 11 that 12 MR. BOIES : You are not entitled to 13 know why I'm asking the question. You 14 are only entitled to know that it 15 relates to the subject matter that I am 16 entitled to inquire about, and I don ' t 17 think the judge is going to think that , 18 you know, where Mr. Epstein shipped 19 Maria Farmer off to is outside the scope 20 of what I 1 m entitled to inquire about. 21 THE WITNESS : Can we take a break? 22 MR. BOIES: Only if you commit not 23 to talk to your counsel during the 24 break. 25 THE WITNESS : That ' s ludicrous . MAGNA9 Ll::GAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 16 of 23 Confidential Page 154 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 Q. Insofar as you were aware , did 3 Virginia Roberts ever have a male friend that 4 visited her at the Epstein residences? 5 A. I don 1 t recall ever seeing a man 6 with Virginia. I believe she had a fiance 7 that I was aware of , I think, but that's all . 8 Q. When were you aware that Virginia 9 Roberts had a f iance? 10 A. I can't say I became aware from 11 reading all this stuff, or I was aware of it 12 at the time I don't know . 13 Q. Did you ever meet Virginia Roberts ' 14 fiance? 15 A. I don ' t think I ever did. I don ' t 16 recall meeting any men with Virginia . 17 Q. Do you know - - • 18 19 A. I never heard that name before . 20 Q. Have you ever heard the name of 21 Carolyn Andriamo, A-N-D-R-I-A-M-0? 22 A. I don 1 t recollect that name at all . 23 MR. PAGLIUCA: Mr. Boies, those 24 names are on Exhibit 26 , which we have 25 already gone over and she said she MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 17 of 23 Confidential Page 155 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 didn't recognize those people , so now we 3 are just repeating things that we went 4 over. 5 MR. BOIES: I am in the context of 6 seeing if I can refresh her 7 recollection, because these are women 8 that Mr . Figueroa, who she also does not 9 recall, brought over to Mr. Epstein ' s 10 residences , and I also want to make a 11 very clear record of what her testimony 12 is and is not right now. 13 Again, you can instruct her not to 14 answer if you wish 15 MR. PAGLIUCA: I ' m trying to get to 16 nonrepetitive questions here . You 17 basically asked the same question three 18 times. Then we get a pile of notes that 19 get pushed up to you, you read those. 20 Then you ask those three times , and then 21 we go to another question. 22 taking an inordinately long amount of 23 time and it shouldn't. 24 MR. BOIES: I think that is a 25 demonstrably inaccurate statement of LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 18 of 23 Confidential Page 156 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 what has been going on, and I 3 attribute -- maybe I shouldn ' t attribute 4 it at all . 5 But if you want to instruct not to 6 answer , instruct not to answer. If you 7 don' t, again, all I will do is request 8 that you cease your comments. I can't 9 do that. All I can do is seek sanctions 10 afterwards . 11 BY MR. BOIES : 12 Q. Ms. Maxwell . 13 A. Mr. Boies . 14 Q. What? 15 A. I'm replying , You said Ms 16 Maxwell , I said Mr. Boies. 17 Q. Do you have a question ? 18 A . No . 19 Q. I have a question 20 A. I ' m sure you do . 21 Q. During the time that you were in 22 the property or at the property that 23 Mr. Epstein has in the Virgin Islands , were 24 you aware of Mr . Epstein getting any 25 massages? MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 19 of 23 Confidential Page 174 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 court's order . 3 Q. In terms of preparing for this 4 deposition, what documents did you review? 5 MR. PAGLIUCA : To the extent I 6 provided you with any documents to 7 review, I will tell you that's both 8 it ' s privileged and I instruct you not 9 to answer. 10 Q. Did your lawyer provide you with 11 any documents to review in preparation for 12 this deposition that refreshed your 13 recollection about any of the events that 14 occurred? 15 MR . PAGLIUCA : You can answer that 16 question . 17 A. No. 18 Q. How many documents did your lawyer 19 provide you with? 20 MR. PAGLIUCA: You can answer . 21 A. One , I believe . 22 Q. One document . Was that a document 23 that had been prepared by your attorney , or 24 was it a document from the past? 25 MR. PAGLIUCA: I will tell you not MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICE$ Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 20 of 23 Confidential Page 177 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 MR. PAGLIUCA: Don ' t answer that 3 question. It 1 s out side the court ' s 4 order. 5 Q. In 2 00 5 , were you aware of any 6 effort to destroy records of messages you had 7 taken of women who had called Mr. Epstein in 8 the prior period? 9 MR. PAGLIUCA: Don ' t answer that 10 question. It ' s outside the court ' s 11 order. 12 MR. BOIES: I said I would give you 13 a break every hour It 1 s been an hour. 14 MR. PAGLIUCA : Do you want a break 15 or do you want to keep going? 16 THE WITNESS: Keep going . 17 MR. BOIES: What I told you before , 18 you asked for a break every hour I am 19 happy to give you a break at a fixed 20 time. What I ' m not happy to do is 21 interrupt a chain of examination . 22 So if you want a break now , we will 23 take a break now. If you don 1 t want a 24 break now , we will not break for another 25 hour. MAGNA& LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 21 of 23 Confidential Page 184 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 Q. Next one is Heidi - - 3 A. Tony is Virginia's guy that you 4 asked me about I don't know Tony. 5 Q. I asked you about a Tony Figueroa 6 A. Right , I don ' t know him , so I ' m 7 guessing , I don I t know him . 8 Q. Nicole? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Colleen? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Crystal? 13 A. I don't know who these people are . 14 Q. Was there a list that was kept of 15 women or girls who provided massages? 16 MR. PAGLIUCA: This has been 17 previously deposed on . This is not part 18 of the court 1 s order , I will tell her 19 not to answer . 20 MR . BOIES: You are going to tell 21 her not to answer a question that says 22 was there a list of women or girls who 23 provided massages? 24 MR. PAGLIUCA: She has been 25 previously deposed on this subject. MAGNA& LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 22 of 23 Confidential Page 185 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 MR. BOIES: I think this is 3 squarely in the court's order , but if 4 you instruct her not to answer, you 5 instruct her not to answer. 6 MR. PAGLIUCA: We ' ll find out. 7 BY MR. BOIES: 8 Q I take it you don ' t know the ages 9 of any of these people? 10 A. The ones that I did recognize were 11 roughly my age. The ones I don ' t know , I 12 wouldn ' t have a clue . 13 Q. Did you, or insofar as you are 14 aware anyone , maintain a list of females that 15 provided massage services to Mr. Epstein at 16 his residences? 17 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 18 and foundation. 19 You can answer if you can 20 A. I don't know anything about a list . 21 Q. Let me go back to Exhibit 28. I 22 want to go down this list, excluding 23 Mr. Epstein himself, and just ask you a 24 series of the same essential questions about 25 each one. MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 1328-10 Filed 01/05/24 Page 23 of 23 Confidential Page 197 1 2 CERTIFICATE 3 4 5 I HEREBY CERTIFY that GHISLAINE 6 MAXWELL , was duly sworn by me and that the 7 deposition is a true record of the t~stimony 8 given by the witness . 9 10 11 Les Registered Professional Reporter 12 Dated: July 22 , 2 016 13 14 15 (The foregoing certification of 16 this transcript does not apply to any 17 reproduction of the same by any means , unless 18 under the direct control and/or supervision 19 of the certifying reporter . ) 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAGNA9 LEGAL SERVICES