gov.uscourts.nysd.447706.753.1.pdf

Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 753-1 Filed 03/17/17 Page 1 of 7 EXHIBIT A  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 753-1 Filed 03/17/17 Page 2 of 7 1 H39YGIUC 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 1 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 2 ------------------------------x 2 3 VIRGINIA L. GIUFFRE, 3 4 Plaintiff, 4 5 v. 15 CV 7433 (RWS) 5 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL, et al., 6 7 Defendants. 7 8 ------------------------------x 8 New York, N.Y. 9 March 9, 2017 9 12:20 p.m. 10 10 Before: 11 11 HON. ROBERT W. SWEET, 12 12 District Judge 13 13 APPEARANCES 14 14 STANLEY POTTINGER PLLC 15 Attorneys for Plaintiff 15 BY: STANLEY POTTINGER 16 16 S.J. QUINNEY COLLEGE OF LAW AT THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH 17 Attorneys for Plaintiff 17 BY: PAUL G. CASSELL 18 18 HADDON MORGAN AND FOREMAN, P.C. 19 Attorneys for Defendant Ghislaine Maxwell 19 BY: LAURA A. MENNINGER 20 JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 753-1 Filed 03/17/17 Page 3 of 7 2 H39YGIUC 1 THE COURT: Giuffre. I was thinking the two 2 plaintiff's motions with respect to Epstein and Barden and then 3 the Ransome application and the Edwards application. That's 4 what I was thinking, but I'll be guided by you all. 5 How does that sound to you, all? 6 MR. CASSELL: That sounds good, your Honor, although 7 we had one small request on behalf of Mr. Pottinger here. He 8 is handling the one Ransome motion. If that could be handled 9 first, he could be returned to his office more rapidly. 10 THE COURT: Why should we be nice to him? 11 MR. POTTINGER: Other people have said that before, 12 your Honor. It is entirely, of course, up to the Court. We'll 13 accommodate you any way you want. Ms. Menninger has been kind 14 enough to say -- I think I will speak for her to say she's 15 indifferent to going first or second with this particular 16 Ransome motion. It's entirely up to you. 17 THE COURT: Sure. 18 MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, I did have one small 19 concern about the Ransome motion that might foreshorten the 20 hearing on this topic. As Your Honor is aware, at the time 21 plaintiff filed a motion for a protective order about 22 Ms. Ransome's discovery, I had been in the process of trying to 23 confer with them about some discovery issues. 24 THE COURT: I think we can cut through that pretty 25 easy by simply saying that I believe that as for any of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 753-1 Filed 03/17/17 Page 4 of 7 36 H39YGIUC 1 THE COURT: I understand. 2 MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, I actually believe that 3 these emails were some that your Honor had reviewed because we 4 had asserted a joint defense agreement privilege, and your 5 Honor reviewed these emails, and they were produced last April, 6 the ones that Mr. Cassell is talking about right now. 7 THE COURT: I see. Okay. 8 MR. CASSELL: Of course it's our position that there 9 are email accounts and things like that, as you know from our 10 other papers, where we think -- so the fact that we have emails 11 on January 15, 21, and 27 and they're discussing this very 12 issue, we think a reasonable inference could be drawn by the 13 jury, and we'll be arguing at trial that there may well be 14 other smoking-gun emails that haven't been produced by the 15 defendant in this case. I'm not attacking the lawyers here. 16 I'm saying we believe there's been inadequate production, as 17 you know from our other papers. 18 In addition, with regard to the financial information, 19 your Honor has directed the defense to produce all of the 20 financial information but just shortly before trial. So we 21 haven't had an opportunity to look at, for example, the 22 $17,000,000 townhouse to see if there is any financial 23 connection between Maxwell and Epstein. She's a coconspirator. 24 We're told that the plaintiffs are somehow responsible for 25 Epstein taking the Fifth. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 753-1 Filed 03/17/17 Page 5 of 7 37 H39YGIUC 1 THE COURT: You just said something that I had not 2 heard before, that you have reason to believe Epstein was 3 involved in the townhouse? 4 MR. CASSELL: We believe that was a gift from Epstein 5 to Ms. Maxwell. It may be a payment to keep her silent. That 6 could be one of the arguments that would be advanced. We 7 haven't had a chance to look at the financial information. 8 Once we do, we'll work with it from there. 9 I think the speculation is that that was a gift from 10 Epstein to his loyal lieutenant in exchange -- 11 THE COURT: I hear you say that, but I haven't seen 12 anything to support it. 13 MR. CASSELL: We haven't been given access to the 14 financial records. Your Honor has said that that will be 15 produced shortly before trial. That's why we're pursuing that 16 line of inquiry. I don't believe I'm the only one who is 17 speculating -- 18 THE COURT: By the way, that was not stated with 19 respect to the financial information dispute. Let's call it 20 that. This is the first time I hear this. 21 MR. CASSELL: I can't recall whether we included that 22 in our papers, that particular issue or not. We won the 23 argument to get our -- our argument all along has been that 24 financial information is appropriate to show an inner 25 relationship. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 753-1 Filed 03/17/17 Page 6 of 7 38 H39YGIUC 1 THE COURT: Like a number of other things in this 2 case, it's back before me. Thanks very much. 3 MR. CASSELL: It's back before you because, I believe, 4 once you ruled in our favor, they filed a motion to reconsider. 5 THE COURT: Be it right, wrong, or rain, it is back 6 before me. In that briefing -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I 7 don't think I saw any reference that Epstein was involved in 8 any way with the house. 9 MR. CASSELL: It's been a while since I've looked at 10 the briefing. What I recall is we have a separate heading 11 where we say the reason we want the financial records is to 12 show a close financial relationship between Epstein and 13 Maxwell. 14 I know we made that argument generally. I can't 15 recall, sitting here, whether we said and an illustration of 16 that general point would be the townhouse. I think we provided 17 some illustrations. I can't recall immediately whether that 18 was one of the illustrations. We think their financial 19 affairs -- 20 THE COURT: It's not an issue. 21 MR. CASSELL: We think their financial affairs are 22 interwoven, and of course, we will know that for sure once we 23 get the financial production before trial. 24 THE COURT: It depends on what you get. 25 MR. CASSELL: There may be. We're, frankly, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300  Case 1:15-cv-07433-LAP Document 753-1 Filed 03/17/17 Page 7 of 7 39 H39YGIUC 1 fearful -- as you know, we have alleged in our papers that this 2 money is being moved offshore so that it will not be reachable 3 in the event that Ms. Giuffre -- 4 THE COURT: This I understand. That point you made. 5 MR. CASSELL: Whether Epstein is involved in that, 6 obviously, we'll have to see what the evidence shows. We heard 7 that somehow Mr. Epstein is taking the Fifth because we have 8 this pro bono Crime Victims' Rights Act lawsuit going on down 9 in Florida. 10 Mr. Epstein has criminal problems, frankly, all over 11 the country, in the Southern District of New York, for example. 12 So let's assume that we withdraw that lawsuit tomorrow, which 13 we won't, he would still have criminal exposure -- 14 THE COURT: Hold the phone just a second. You just 15 said Epstein has criminal issues -- 16 MR. CASSELL: Exposure. 17 THE COURT: -- in the Southern District of New York. 18 MR. CASSELL: Right. 19 THE COURT: That's the first time I hear this. 20 MR. CASSELL: Our papers have said he's running a 21 sex-trafficking organization that included not only Florida -- 22 THE COURT: Criminal. That means U.S. Attorney. 23 MR. CASSELL: I can't make any representations for 24 what law enforcement in the Southern District of New York is 25 doing. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300