EFTA00115849.pdf

1 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 5, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 3 4 1 YR. : This is special agent 1 General. And these are 2 . The recorder is now on. My name is 2 my credentia s. 3 . I'm a special agent with the 3 MR. Okay. And my name is 4 U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the 4 Senior Officer with the Federal Bureau S Inspector General, New York Field Office, and 5 of Prisons. 6 these are m, credentials. 6 MR. : And spell your last name, 7 MR. : All right. 7 too. 8 MR. : This interview is with 8 MR. 9 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, 9 MR. : Thank you, sir. 10 It is being conducted as part of an 10 YR. : This is an official DOJ/OIG 11 official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of 11 investigation into the death of inmate, Jeffrey 12 the Inspector General investigation. Today is 12 Epstein, and the surrounding circumstances. 13 August 5th, 2021, and the time is 6:19 p.m. 13 You are being asked to voluntarily provide 14 This interview is being conducted at the 14 answers to our questions. Will you agree to a 15 Metropolitan Correctional Center, MCC, 150 Park 15 voluntary interview with the DOJ/OIG? 16 Row, New York City. Also resent is DOJ/OIG 16 MR. : Yes. 17 Senior Special Agent, . This 17 MR. : Please review DOJ/OIG form 18 interview will be recorded by me, Special Agent 18 III-226/2. It states, the United States 19 . Could everyone please identify 19 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 20 themselves for the record, and spell your last 20 General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee 21 name? To start, a ain, I am DOJ/OIG Special 21 Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary 22 Agent, 22 Basis. "You are being asked to provide 23 MR. : M name is senior special 23 information as part of an investigation being 24 agent, , with the U.S. 24 conducted by the Office of the Inspector 25 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 25 General. This investigation is being conducted EFTA00115849  S 6 1 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 1 MR. : Here's a pen for you, if 2 as amended. This investigation pertains to job 2 you need one. 3 performance failure, security failure, and 3 MR. So, do I need a union rep for 4 false certifications. This is a voluntary 4 this? 5 interview. Accordingly -- S MR. : You could have one, if 6 MR. Mm-hmm. 6 you want, but like we mentioned, it's going to 7 MR. : -- you do not have to answer 7 be primarily to review the statement that you 8 any questions. No disciplinary action will be 8 already provided. 9 taken against you if you choose not to answer 9 MR. • Okay. 10 any questions. 10 MR. : And just to ask for some 11 MR. Uh-huh. 11 clarification on some of the information that 12 MR. : Any statement you furnish may 12 you provided. 13 be used as evidence in any future criminal 13 MR. : Let's get this over with. 14 proceedings, or agency disciplinary 14 MR. : Thank you for signing. This 15 proceedin s, or both." 15 is Agent . I'm going to put the date as 16 MR. : Uh-huh. 16 August Sth, 2021. And the time is 6:22 p.m. 17 MR. : The waiver states, "I 17 The place is MCC, New York. I'm signing at the 18 understand the Warnings and Assurances stated 18 line for signature of the Office of the 19 above and I am willing to make a statement and 19 Inspector General, Special Agent. Senior 20 answer questions. No promises or threats have 20 Special A ent would you sign it? 21 been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of 21 MR. : This is 22 any kind has been used against me." Please 22 . I'm signing as the witness. 23 review the form. If you understand and agree, 23 MR. : Did you understand the form? 24 sign your name, and print your name right below 24 MR. Yes. 25 it. 25 MR. : You understand it's a 7 8 1 voluntary interview -- 1 MR. Yup. 2 MR. Yeah. 2 MR. IIIIII!ii!hat is your current home 3 MR. : -- and you can end the 3 address? 4 interview. 4 rent home address would S MR. Like -. be 6 MR. : You don't have to answer if 6 MR. : W ere is that? 7 you don't rant to. 7 MR. In 8 MR. : It's been like this every 8 MR. • art? 9 time. 9 MR. • 10 MR. : Yes. 10 MR. • Okay. 11 MR. Yeah. 11 What is your date o irt ? 12 MR. : Before starting the 12 MR. 13 interview, I would like to place you under 13 MR. : What is your social security 14 oath. Can you please raise your right hand? 14 number? 15 Mr. , do you swear to tell the truth and 15 MR. 16 nothing but the truth during this interview? 16 MR. : IM current phone 17 MR. : Yes. 17 number? 18 MR. : Thank you. You can put your 18 MR. 19 hand down. Mr. , please let me know if 19 MR. : What is your highest level of 20 you do not understand any questions I ask, and 20 education? 21 I will try and repeat it, or try to rephrase it 21 MR. High school with some college. 22 for you. 22 MR. : What hi h school? 23 MR. Mm-hmm. 23 • 24 MR. : Okay. I just wanted to show 24 25 the recorder is right there. 25 MR. : Okay. And some college. Did EFTA00115850  9 10 1 you earn a de ree? 1 MR. : What was your enter on duty 2 MR. : No. I haven't finished that. 2 date? 3 I started in 3 MR. • It can be a month and 4 And then, I did online. So, 4 year. 5 and now, Iacing here. MR. : Yeah. MR. What major are you following? 6 MR. : Yeah. It was MR. It was criminal justice. 7 Yeah. Because I just made 'ears. 8 MR. : Were you planning - you were 8 But I could et that, as -- 9 going to finish that up, you said? 9 MR. • Oh, that's easy. 10 MR. I want to. 10 MR. • -- a paper. 11 MR. • Okay. Do you have any 11 MR. : It's fine. It's just a 12 military service? 12 know approximately when you started. 13 MR. : Yes. 13 MR. : Okay. And what did you prior 14 MR. : What branch? 14 to working at the Metropolitan Correctional 15 MR. 15 Center? 16 MR. : Honorably discharged? 16 MR. • Cleaning job. And car 17 MR. : Yes. 17 dealershiiiiiiintil I landed this. 18 MR. : When did serve? 18 MR. : Okay. And what year did you 19 MR. to 19 start here a al. 20 MR. And what grade were you when 20 MR. 21 you left? 21 MR. : With the MCC? 22 MR. I was an E4 when I left. 22 MR. Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. How long have you 23 MR. : Have you been here at the MCC 24 served with the Federal Bureau of Prisons? 24 the whole time? 25 MR. : Approximately lillyears now. 25 MR. : Yes. 11 12 1 MR. : Okay. What is your current 1 previously interviewed by the FBI and OIG 2 position with the MCC? 2 regarding the Epstein investigation? 3 MR. Senior Officer. 3 MR. Yes. 4 MR. : Who is your current 4 MR. : I'm going to read you a 5 supervisor? 5 summary of the FBI's notes. The reason, these 6 MR. The Operations Lieutenant. 6 notes belong to the FBI, but because the OIG 7 MR. : What's the name? 7 was present, we do have the notes along with 8 MR. . I think is the 8 you, too. So I'm going to read it -- 9 Operations tonight. 9 MR. Uh-huh. 10 MR. : Operations Lieutenant. Do 10 MR. : -- just tell me if there's 11 you -? 11 any corrections, or -- 12 MR. : So, what do you mean by 12 MR. : Okay. 13 that? It's every day, it's a different one, or 13 MR. -- anything that's missing. 14 (Indiscernible *00:06:1S)? 14 MR. Okay. 15 MR. : It can very well be. So, the 15 MR. : I'm going to go right into 16 lieutenants sometimes will work on a different 16 it. " informed that he has been a guard 17 schedule than us. So, our schedule, like, a 17 with the Bureau" -. 18 schedule mi ht not line up, like, tonight I'm 18 MR. : Yeah, yeah. Start from 19 working, is workinillit now, but some - 19 the beginfling,_ 20 like, yesterday, it was that was 20 MR. 'I'll': All right. So, "On September 21 working. 21 25, 2019, at approximately 11:30 hours, the 22 MR. : Sure. 22 d, along with Special Agent 23 MR. So, you know, you never know. 23 of the Offic ctor 24 MR. : Okay. 24 General, Special Agent of the 25 MR. : Do you recall being 25 Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Assistant EFTA00115851  13 14 1 United States Attornexidajltatifin 1 quick, and just et this over with. 2 district of New York, and 2 MR. : Okay. 3 did interview Federal Bureau of 3 MR. informed that he has 4 Prisons Correctional Guard, 4 completed all the basic and required training 5 Date of birth: at the Southern S for being a guard in the BOP, and that he is 6 District of New York. This interview was currently the senior officer in the Special 7 conducted in the presence of attorney. 7 Housing Unit SHU)." 8 informed that he has been a guard with 8 MR. : Well, then I was. 9 the Bureau of Prisons (BOP) for approximately 9 MR. : At that point. Okay. And 10 three years, all of which have been at the 10 August 2019? 11 Metropolitan Correctional Center." 11 MR. Mm-hmm. 12 MR. : Mm-hmm. 12 MR. : Okay. Did you -? 13 MR. : So, are you represented 13 MR. I wasn't the number one 14 in this matter? Are you represented in this 14 officer that night, but -. 15 matter? 15 MR. : Who was that number one 16 MR. Yeah. I guess so. I mean, I 16 officer? 17 had a law er -- 17 MR. I'm not even sure. 18 MR. : Yeah. So, this is -- 18 MR. : Here's the daily 19 MR. -- then. 19 assignment roster from that night. 20 MR. . -- so, I do want to make 20 MR. : Can you see it, by looking at 21 sure you understand this is a voluntary 21 the -? We provided the MCC New York roster for 22 interview. I know that you had an attorney 22 August 94'11219. 23 there. Are you good with us reviewing this 23 MR. IIIII: Okay. He was on OT. Yeah. I 24 report, and -? 24 was the number three man. 25 MR. : Yeah. We could review it real 25 MR. : You were number three. Who 15 16 1 was number one? Are you pointing to III 1 MR. : Okay. 2 2 MR. : You know, I worked in there 3 MR. Yeah. 3 every day, at that point in time, but what am I 4 MR. : Okay. 4 supposed to tell the man, like, yo, you're 5 MR. : Now, was - was number one, what am I supposed to anybody? 6 he non-custod , though? 6 MR. : Sure. So, technically, 7 MR. : Yeah. because he's number one, he was the OIC? 8 MR. : So, being that he was 8 MR. Yeah. 9 non-custody, mould you actually be kind of the 9 MR. : I gotcha. 10 OIC, being that you were, like, were you more 10 MR. But, you know, that's -. 11 senior, or -? 11 MR. : Have you received MCC 12 MR. : No. Actually, he has more 12 refresher training? Annual refresher training? 13 time in the Bureau than I do. 13 MR. In SHU? 14 MR. : He does? Okay. So, he 14 MR. : In SHU, MCC training, and 15 would be kind of responsible, at the time, 15 also in SHU. 16 then? 16 MR. : Oh, like, oh, yeah, the annual 17 MR. : Yeah. Like, the way it's a 17 18 very tricky thing, the way that that works 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 here. 19 MR. • -- training or whatever? 20 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : You know, so, even if - 21 MR. : Like, yeah. I just did that 22 because he has more time than me, he's not - 22 on the com uter this year. 23 because he started in custody - he has more 23 MR. : Ask him -- 24 time than me, so I guess when they gave him the 24 MR. : Did you have -. 25 overtime, they just, like, filled in the slot. 25 MR. : -- you know, you want to EFTA00115852  17 18 1 ask him about at the time. 1 preventioiliiiiiiii? In 2019. 2 MR. : I'm going back. Yeah. In 2 MR. : That would have been part 3 2019, did you receive the annual MCC refresher 3 of the SHU. 4 training? 4 MR. : Part of the SHU training. S MR. : I believe so. I don't even S MR. : Yeah, as well as part of remember at this point, but I could look it up 7 in the comuter 7 MR. : Yeah. 8 MR. : Everybody pretty much 8 MR. : -- the annual refresher 9 does every year, though. Correct? 9 training. 10 MR. Yeah. 10 MR. : Yeah. I've seen that on the 11 MR. : So, you (Indiscernible 11 computer before, too. Now, in 2019, I don't 12 *00:10:10). 12 remember. It was -- 13 MR. : But we're supposed to. But 13 MR. : Sure. 14 sometimes we'll be off. 14 MR. : -- It was too --. 15 MR. : Sure. 15 MR. : Okay. We're going to go -- 16 MR. : Do you recall, in 2019, if 16 MR. : Maybe it was something that 17 you received the SHU training? 17 was mentioned in the course, that -- 18 MR. : Quarterly training. 18 MR. : Right. Yeah, yeah. 19 MR. arterly training. 19 MR. -- it's 2021, right? 20 MR. : In order to your -. You 20 MR. : Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 21 were, like assigned to the SHU. 21 MR. : I understand. "When asked 22 MR. : Yeah. At some point in time, 22 about his activities for August 9th, 2019, 23 I probably did. What the dates are, I don't 23 replied, 'I assumed that's Epstein day.' 24 remember. 24 informed that, as far as he can recall, 25 MR. : Okay. What about the suicide 25 he worked the 2:00 p.m. by 10:00 p.m. shift." 19 20 1 MR. . Yes. 1 started, • - you said 2 MR. : Can you let me know who else 2 , and was still there? 3 worked with you during that shift? According to 3 MR. Mm-hmm. 4 when you - if you can refer to the roster. 4 MR. : And at 4:00 p.m., S MR. : Okay. For 2:00 to 10:00, this S came on? 6 is me right here, coming in at 2:00 to 10:00. MR. left when I came in, 7 And so, when I came in, some of these people because he's 1400. His time ended. 8 from the dayshift was still here. 8 MR. : Okay. And then, at 4:00 9 MR. : Can you - because we're 9 p.m., came in? 10 recording -- 10 MR. Yeah. He came up for 11 MR. : Oh. 11 overtime. came in for her regular shift. 12 MR. -- say the names that you're 12 MR. : Okay. I'm going to continue 13 pointing to. 13 on. 14 MR. : Okay. So, when I came in to 14 MR. Mm-hmm. 15 do SHU number three, you had 15 MR. : And I'm going to read that 16 still working. And then, at 4:00, when 16 line again. informed that, as far as he 17 the shift change came_gns_Iliis is when these 17 can recall, he worked a 2:00 p.m. by 10:00 p.m. 18 individuals came on, IIIIIIII, IIII. Well, 18 shift, and did not see Epstein for the majority 19 IIII was already there, I believe. Because she 19 of his shift because Epstein was with his 20 got stuck for overtime that night. But that's 20 lawyers all day." 21 when they came in. And then, nobody was 21 MR. Yes. 22 assigned to SHU four, after 4:00. 22 MR. first recalls seeing 23 MR. : So, you started 2:00 p.m.? 23 Epstein at approximately 8:00 p.m., and at that 24 MR. I started at 2:00 p.m. 24 time, informed BOP guard 25 MR. : And during the time that you 25 that's EFTA00115853  21 22 1 MR. : Mm-hmm. 1 MR. : That's only because of 2 MR. : "That Epstein needed to make 2 this. 3 a phone call. informed that he made the 3 MR. Yeah, yeah. 4 4 MR. : You know, picking it up. MR. 'I'll' That's backwards. S MR. : So -- 6 MR. : Go ahead. Clarify that for 6 MR. : I knew what you meant. me. 7 MR. : -- that night,1/22you in 8 MR. : What happened was is, 8 the SHU when this happened? Did IIIIIII 9 informed me that he needed to make a phone 9 approach ou in the SHU? 10 call. That's, like, because I can't make that 10 MR. : Yes. 11 determination, and that's not an officer, 11 MR. : So, that night, when that 12 that's a unit manager. 12 happened, I'm running around, as I normally do, 13 MR. : So, is a unit 13 doing things in the SHU. I get the call on the 14 manager? 14 radio. You know, you've got to return, coming 15 MR. Yeah. 15 into SHU, or whatever. So, when he gets 16 MR. Do you know his first name, 16 brought in or whatever -- 17 offhand? 17 MR. : Who gets brought in? 18 MR. : No. 18 MR. -- Epstein. 19 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. ? Is that a yes? 20 MR. : Epstein gets brought into the 21 MR. Yes. 21 SHU. lust like normal, you know, like, you 22 MR. Okay. 22 take them, pat search them, and everything like 23 MR. : That's all right. 23 that before you put them in the cell. So, 24 MR. Sorry. 24 informed me, hey, he needs to make a 25 MR. : No problem. 25 phone call, I don't know if, like, you know, 23 24 1 the judge or anybody tell him that, like, yeah, 1 he came back. That day, a specific time, I 2 he gets to make a phone call or whatever. So, 2 can't remember. But I know it was around 8:00 3 okay, no problem. You know, you're owing me at 3 ish, you know 8:00, 9:00 ish. 4 this point in time or whatever. So, now, at 4 MR. : That's fine. 5 that point in time, there was a lot of stuff 5 MR. : Because the legal visits 6 going on. That, I do remember. There was a 6 usually end about 8:00. But, you know, there 7 lot of things going on. Two other inmates 7 was other thins going on. You know that? 8 attempted suicides, and, you know -. 8 MR. : Who brought him back? 9 MR. : We'll come to -. I'm going 9 MR. handed him off to me. 10 to go throw h that, too. 10 MR. : So -- 11 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. If I remember correctly. 12 MR. : You said, so, approximately 12 MR. -- so, he brought him back 13 what time did Epstein get brought back? Do you 13 from attorne visiting? 14 recall? 14 MR. : Yes. 15 MR. : It was 8:00 something, but it 15 MR. : Okay. 16 was, like, very close to, like, the end of the 16 MR. : So, he handed him off to me, 17 day. It was locking time. The day was done. 17 and told me he needed a phone call or whatever. 18 Because Epstein usually did that. He would 18 So, I had to put Epstein, you know - where'd I 19 stay with his lawyers from the time in the 19 put him? - I had to put him in the shower 20 morning, to the end, when they couldn't stay no 20 because I couldn't put him in the room, with 21 more. 21 the phone, by himself, and I'm pulling out 22 MR. : Okay. 22 other inmates at the time, because one of them 23 MR. : So, he would wait all the way 23 had a noose tied around his neck. He was 24 to the very end. And he came back after the 24 probably playing it, but you can't joke like 25 legal visits were done, that's around the time 25 that. EFTA00115854  25 26 1 MR. : Which inmate? Do you recall? 1 like, did walk with you to the -? Did 2 MR. I don't remember his name at 2 he come into the shower area with you? 3 the moment. 3 MR. No. 4 MR. : Okay. And so, you put him in 4 MR. : Well, who provided him S the shower, ou said? S the call? Did give him the phone, or 6 MR. : Yeah. 6 did you give him the phone? 7 MR. : And what did instruct 7 MR. I think gave him the 8 you? 8 phone. 9 MR. : And what - oh, just to give 9 MR. : All right. 10 him a social call, and that's it. 10 MR. Because I didn't hand him the 11 MR. : So, it was a social call, he 11 phone. 12 mentioned? 12 MR. : OkaL_____ 13 MR. Mm-hmm. 13 MR. I mean, IIIIIII told me what 14 MR. : Not a legal call? 14 he, you know, what he needed or whatever. 15 MR. I believe it was a social 15 Okay. No problem. Took him over there to the 16 call. 16 shower, put him in there, and then, I can't 17 MR. : And do you recall, who 17 remember who plugged in the phone, to give him 18 plugged thuhione in? Was it you or M? 18 the phone call. I don't remember right now. 19 MR. IIIII: I don't remember who plugged 19 MR. : Because did you -- 20 the phone in. 20 MR. : You might add -. 21 MR. : Okay. And do you remember 21 MR. : -- ever finish that 22 who he said that Epstein wanted to talk to? 22 sentence? So finish the sentence -- 23 MR. : No. He never told me who 23 MR. Yeah. 24 Epstein wanted to talk to. 24 MR. : -- before asking the 25 MR. : Was any of the instructions, 25 questions. 27 28 1 MR. Like -. 1 MR. Yeah. 2 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : Because it was two years 3 MR. : I'm going to read that. 4 ago. He's got to -. And doesn't it say in 4 " informed that he made the decision to S there -- S have Epstein call from the G-tier shower to 6 MR. : Yeah. It'll go. 6 make the call, and believes guards and 7 MR. : -- that -. 7 were present, as well. informed 8 MR. • " informed that he made 8 that dialed the number for Epstein." 9 the decision to have Epstein call from G-tier 9 MR. There we go. Yeah, because 10 shower to make the call, and believes -." 10 this was iiiiii time 11 MR. : That, I did. Because I told 11 MR. • "IIIII further informed that 12 him, put him over here. Because we couldn't 12 he did not overhear the conversation, and that 13 put him next to these other inmates. That, 13 was present for the call initially. 14 yeah. 14 And then, left before the call ended. 15 MR. : Okay. Because those are the 15 says that durin the Epstein call, another 16 inmates that was threatening suicide? 16 inmate, was claiming to want to come 17 MR. Yeah. 17 in from suici e, so that diverted some guards 18 MR. : Okay. 18 from Epstein." And do you know how long 19 MR. They were, and they were on 19 Epstein's call lasted? 20 his tier. 20 MR. : I'm not sure how long that 21 MR. : Okay. 21 call lasted. I'm sure we could look on the 22 MR. : So, on L-tier? 22 computer and 23 MR. Yeah. 23 MR. : Do you know if 24 MR. : Was, people were 24 plugged that line into the legal line, or the - 2S threatening suicide? 2S ? EFTA00115855  29 30 1 MR. I'll" I don't. 1 MR. : That should have been. Okay. 2 MR. : You don't know if it was a 2 And it should not have been on the legal line? 3 recorded hone call? 3 MR. No. 4 MR. : I don't. 4 MR. : And do you recall if S MR. : Okay. And was that normal? S stayed with him for a little bit? Did he listen 6 Does normally do that? Allow calls on 6 to the conversation? Did anybody listen to the 7 the legal line, or -? 7 conversation? 8 MR. : Not without permission, to my 8 MR. : I don't think so. Well, 9 knowledge. 9 that's -. 10 MR. : Who would have to give 10 MR. : Well, it says in here 11 permission? 11 that - so ust read the 12 MR. : Like, I've heard times that, 12 MR. Yeah. 13 you know, a judge may call, like, this person 13 MR. : -- yeah. 14 needs a legal call. And when that happens or 14 MR. Because I know was up 15 whatever, like, all right, we got to get these 15 there for a while. 16 people a legal call. And so, that does happen, 16 MR. : Do you know how long 17 but I've never known him to do that on his own 17 was there? Was he there for the 18 accord. 18 majority of the conversation, or just a 19 MR. : Okay. Our understanding is, 19 portion? 20 based on the investigation, I think Epstein 20 MR. : Oh, maybe a portion, but I was 21 stated that he wanted to call his mother. So, 21 busy at the time, so I couldn't -- 22 you think that would have been on the - that 22 MR. : Sure. 23 should have been on the -? 23 MR. -- wasn't looking at him the 24 MR. : That should have been on the 24 whole time. 25 recorded line. 25 MR. : Because we have other 31 32 1 iithat were in there, that stated that 1 over to L-tier. 2 3 iiiiiYR. basically gave him a call, and left. : Okay. 2 3 MR. MR. : To his cell. : Or into his cell. Okay. 4 MR. : And then, later, called 4 MR. : So, when you went to get S back and said, hey, his phone call is up, go S Epstein out of the cell, was the phone still in get the phone from him. 6 there with him? MR. : Mm-hmm. 7 MR. : I don't remember. 8 MR. : Does that sound right? 8 MR. : Okay. And do you know how 9 MR. : That sounds about right or 9 long after he started the phone call, you 10 whatever. I don't think I took that call. But 10 brought him back to the cell? 11 I do remember when -- 11 MR. With everything going on -- 12 MR. : Yeah. I don't think you 12 MR. : Just read it. 13 did, either. 13 MR. : I mean -. 14 MR. : -- yeah, but I know when 14 MR. : I think it says it in 15 everything was all said and done, then dealing 15 there. So, you could keep on reading, and 16 with the other inmates, you know, I can't 16 then, it'll robably get to that. 17 remember who took the phone out. I do remember 17 MR. : "After all the guards dealt 18 helping somebody bring Epstein back to his 18 with inmate , Epstein needed to be 19 cell, and put him in the cell, because I think 19 placed back in the cell. recalls no 20 I was the one that put him in the cell. 20 other guard getting up to move Epstein, so he 21 MR. : You put him back into his 21 made the move at approximately 9:30 p.m." 22 cell? 22 MR. Mm-hmm. 23 MR. : In his cell. 23 MR. recalls guard IIII 24 MR. : Okay. You know, from the 24 filing out the 30-minute round paperwork, while 25 shower, you brought Epstein back from G-tier 25 he did some of the administrative computer EFTA00115856  33 34 1 stuff. informed that -." 1 around -? 2 MR. : Before we get onto that, 2 MR. : Because ifihisiihone calls 3 though -- 3 ended after 15-minutes, if did call 4 MR. • Yeah. 4 back or whatever, and that phone call - that MR. -- does that sound right? 5 phone is supposed to die, it's supposed to go 6 9:30 p.m.? Was that when -- 6 off anywa after a certain timeframe. 7 MR. : Mm-hmm. 7 MR. : Even on a legal line? 8 MR. : -- so, he basically was 8 MR. Not on a legal line. 9 put in there - what does it sound like? - 9 MR. : Right. So, the 10 around 8:00 and then, about -- 10 information we have is, it was actually a legal 11 MR. : Mm-hmm. 11 line call. 12 MR. -- 9:30, you moved him 12 MR. : Okay. 13 back? 13 MR. : And that's what we're a 14 MR. : Yeah. Because I, like, he had 14 little confused about, why he was given a 15 to stay in there a little longer than probably 15 personal call on a legal line. But do you know 16 we wanted, because so much stuff was going on 16 anything about that? 17 that day. 17 MR. : I know up there in that SHU, 18 MR. : Right. 18 that if - and it's very difficult, especially 19 MR. Do you -. Go ahead. 19 when you're short-staffed - you know, you have 20 MR. : So, being that he was in 20 orderlies that walk around and, you know, try 21 there for probably an hour, maybe an hour and a 21 to help keep the place clean. If you're short 22 half, the majority of that time wasn't spent on 22 staffed, and you can't be everywhere, and you 23 the phone. Correct? 23 have an orderly cleaning the tier, they will 24 MR. : No. 24 take those little things, and flip the, you 25 MR. : Can you estimate, like, 25 know? Like, so, if you have somebody that's 35 36 1 coming up to SHU to work overtime, who doesn't 1 trying to get, like, all right, well, how long 2 work up there all the time, they don't know 2 was that call, and how long did he monitor? Do 3 that the inmate pulled a fast one, and moved 3 you know? 4 the thing that says legal down to social, and 4 MR. : Gotcha. vice versa. 5 MR. : And do you know that? 6 MR. : Oh, well, the information 6 MR. : That, I don't know. Because I 7 we have is actually, it was an intentional 7 8 legal line. So, not that, like, an orderly 8 MR. So, if it lasted 15 9 actually misplaced it, but it was intentionally 9 minutes, do you think he was there for, like, 10 10 five minutes? The fact that he had to go back 11 MR. : No, no, no. Not the orderly 11 somewhere, and then call, and say, hey, his 12 putting the line in or whatever. What I'm 12 call is u et that -- 13 saying is the stickers on the jacks on the 13 MR. : Yeah. 14 wall. 14 MR. : -- phone from him. Do 15 MR. : Yeah, no, our information 15 you remember -? lust because you put in there 16 is that actually was instructed, or 16 that he did stay for the call. Can you -- 17 provided, was provided approval to give a legal 17 MR. : Yes, I'm -- 18 call. 18 MR. : -- in your recollection 19 MR. Oh, okay. 19 at all, can you think about, about how long he 20 MR. : And do a legal line. But 20 was even there? 21 the instructions were also, that we understand, 21 MR. : Probably somewhere between 22 that was supposed to monitor the entire 22 five to ten minutes, but, like -- 23 call. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. 24 MR. I mean, like, all that time 25 MR. : And that's where we're 25 passed now, and I was running around, and -- EFTA00115857  37 38 1 MR. : Sure. But just, you know 1 MR. : Mm-hmm. 2 he wasn't there for the whole entire thing? 2 MR. But I can't even - you know - 3 MR. : Right. 3 I can't sit there and listen to him make his 4 MR. : Okay. Sure. 4 S MR. : Mm-hmm. S : Sure. 6 MR. :,AcHust to clarify, you 6 So, I, you know -? 7 don't recall if gave instructions to 7 : So, either way, you 8 you or if you overheard him give instructions 8 didn't think you had to listen, because if it 9 to S or about -- 9 was a legal line, you can't listen; if it was 10 MR. No. 10 social line it was supposed to be recorded? 11 MR. -- monitoring the call? 11 MR. : Right. 12 MR. No. 12 MR. : All right. And then, do 13 MR. : Okay. 13 you -? 14 MR. : Like, because usually, on a 14 MR. And if we had more time, if I 15 social call, you don't really have to monitor, 15 knew, you know -- 16 because you could just go on the computer, and 16 MR. : Yeah, yeah, yeah. 17 listen to the phone call. You know, on legal 17 MR. -- what to do. 18 calls, you know, they have attorney/client 18 MR. : Absolutely. But do you 19 privilege, so you can't listen anyway. So, any 19 remember, did he instruct you to monitor the 20 time I know it may be a legal call going on, 20 call after he left? 21 and I know I can't listen in, it's because they 21 MR. No. 22 - well, this is now - but they put inmates in a 22 MR. : No. 23 little visit room for their legal calls, so 23 MR. No. 24 they could do the teleconference because of 24 MR. : Okay. Okay. 25 COVID. 25 MR. : Any other questions on that? 39 40 1 MR. : No. 1 MR. : Okay. And you were working 2 MR. : Because I'm goin to jump 2 during evenin watch, right? 3 off. Okay. recalls guard IIII filling 3 MR. : From 2:00 to 10:00. 4 out the 30-minute round paperwork while he did 4 MR. : So, who was doing the round S some administrative computer stuff." sheets? 6 MR. Mm-hmm. 6 MR. : So, this is IIII right here. 7 MR. : Do you know if she pre-filled MR. : Who's on the other one? 8 the 30-minute round paperwork? 8 MR. This one? 9 MR. I do not. 9 MR. : Yeah. 10 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. I have no idea whose signature 11 MR. : Is this the paperwork? 11 this is. This is day shift. Yeah. I don't 12 What's this? 12 know whose si nature this is right here. 13 MR. : Yeah. 13 MR. : Is it -. 14 MR. That's the 30-minute round 14 MR. Actual 15 sheet. Yeah. 15 MR. : Like, 16 MR. : So, it's on August 9th, 16 MR. : It a y mig t 'e. eah. 17 2019? 17 That looks like an 'll" Yeah. 18 MR. : Is that for the SHU? 18 MR. : You're not sure, but 19 MR. Mm-hmm. Nope. This is L- 19 maybe though? 20 tier. 20 MR. Yeah. Maybe. 21 MR. : This would be during evening 21 MR. : Because it stops, it 22 watch? 22 looks like, at about 2:00 p.m., and wasn't 23 MR. : This is morning watch. 23 done by, like, around 2:00 p.m.? 24 MR. : R1-hmm. 24 MR. : That's exactly right, because 25 MR. : Day watch. Evening watch. 25 that's when I came in. So, I relieved EFTA00115858  41 42 1 that day. So he stopped right here. 1 2 MR. : And is that why they 2 MR. : Why they wouldn't be llieah. 3 stopped there because he left? 3 filled in? 4 MR. : He -- 4 MR. : For the day watch. The end S MR. : So, it looks like they S of day watch, and that would be from -- 6 weren't -- 6 MR. : From 2:00 to 4:00. MR. : -- yeah, so, I guess the 7 MR. : -- 2:00 p.m. -. Yeah. 8 8 MR. : Or 2:30, in this case. From 9 MR. : -- filled in for the rest 9 2:30 to 4:00. I'm going to assume that they 10 of the -- 10 were forgetting because, like, from what I'm 11 MR. -- right, because the -- 11 looking at here - and this is just an 12 MR. • -- time. 12 assumption - from what I'm looking at here, 13 MR. -- date, when I relieved him, 13 from the time got into work, he was 14 I guess he must have been the one controlling 14 the one filling out this paper. Nobody else 15 this paper. So, I relieved him. And the crew 15 probably thou ht about it. 16 here didn't continue it. I just came in. So, 16 MR. : Okay. So