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[00:00:00] I wanted to get your like full stance on [00:00:02] like the ability to get an abortion in [00:00:04] the United States. Uh does that belief [00:00:06] come from Christian values that uh [00:00:09] you're anti-abortion that we should have [00:00:10] laws in place to where you cannot get an [00:00:12] abortion? So, personally, of course, I [00:00:16] believe my religion forbids abortion, [00:00:18] but I I I'll defend it through universal [00:00:20] science, biology, and reason. [00:00:23] >> Okay. So, my question was uh I I came up [00:00:26] here assuming that that was your reason. [00:00:28] So I think that it is very detrimental [00:00:31] to put these kind of laws in place that [00:00:34] favor certain religious religions over [00:00:36] others and we're now integrating church [00:00:39] and state putting in these type of laws. [00:00:41] I feel as if if you don't want an [00:00:43] abortion simply do not get an abortion. [00:00:46] I feel like even if you do want to put a [00:00:49] ban on abortions, there should be [00:00:50] exceptions whenever it comes to and I [00:00:53] don't believe that it should be a [00:00:54] straight ban for anybody because it can [00:00:56] affect people and women can die from not [00:00:58] being able or having the ability to get [00:01:00] an abortion. [00:01:01] >> Okay. So, under that logic, shouldn't we [00:01:03] just get rid of murder laws and say if [00:01:05] you don't want to murder your neighbor, [00:01:06] just don't murder your neighbor? [00:01:08] >> No, I do not believe that. Then what is [00:01:10] the difference of you versus [00:01:13] what's the difference between protecting [00:01:15] your life, making it illegal to murder [00:01:17] you and making it illegal to murder a [00:01:20] six-w week old baby in uter? [00:01:21] >> Well, my stance is that let's say for [00:01:24] the certain cases that like uh let's say [00:01:26] you don't have the biology to give [00:01:28] birth, right? You will die on like you [00:01:31] will die on birth. Do you do you think [00:01:33] you should choose the woman's life or [00:01:36] the baby that is not developed? It's [00:01:38] actually not a binary choice. First [00:01:40] cacaian section should be the first [00:01:42] choice given to a woman. [00:01:43] >> That choice is not available to [00:01:44] everybody. [00:01:45] >> So what is a cacaian section? [00:01:47] >> Actually, I'm yapping. I'm sorry. Yeah, [00:01:48] I know. Sorry. You can explain. Okay, [00:01:50] that's fine. I I I'll admit that. [00:01:51] >> Fair enough. A cacaian section is a [00:01:53] C-section. So it's a cut done right [00:01:55] below the [00:01:56] >> Sorry, I didn't know what that meant. [00:01:57] >> Yeah, it's all good. So basically, [00:01:58] they'll say, well, the woman is 30 weeks [00:02:00] and she needs an abortion because the [00:02:03] baby's going to, you know, hurt her, [00:02:04] which are situations that happen. Well, [00:02:06] why don't we try to deliver the baby [00:02:07] instead of terminating the baby? [00:02:09] C-section is actually a way safer [00:02:11] alternative for both the mother and the [00:02:13] baby for than abortion. But I just want [00:02:15] to drill this down though because your [00:02:17] attitude, which is understandable, a lot [00:02:18] of people hold this view, [00:02:20] >> is hey, abortion doesn't impact me. If [00:02:22] you don't want to get an abortion, don't [00:02:24] get one. Shouldn't we apply that logic [00:02:26] to, hey, if you don't want to steal [00:02:28] something, don't steal it. [00:02:29] >> No. [00:02:30] >> But but why is it though that you get [00:02:32] rights, but a baby in the womb does not [00:02:34] get rights? I think because um so I do [00:02:38] not believe that you are a human life at [00:02:41] conception. [00:02:42] >> Okay. So then when does human life be [00:02:44] when does human life begin and when does [00:02:46] the human development process begin [00:02:47] >> from from my understanding you are fully [00:02:49] considered a human life after the third [00:02:52] trimester. [00:02:53] >> Okay. So after the that's birth just so [00:02:55] we're clear because there's only three [00:02:56] trimester. So you mean upon the third [00:02:58] trimester? I think like due to the fact [00:03:00] that the belief is that you're a human [00:03:02] life at conception. [00:03:04] It's like how exactly [00:03:08] I'm sorry I'm trying to figure out. So [00:03:10] let me tell you my view and I want you [00:03:12] to think about it that fundamentally you [00:03:15] are DNA. [00:03:16] >> We know that because of the human genome [00:03:17] project. [00:03:18] >> Yes. [00:03:18] >> So when does deoxyorbo nucleic acid DNA [00:03:22] begin [00:03:24] >> uh with [00:03:26] uh I'm sorry I I don't know the word. I [00:03:28] don't know the word. [00:03:29] But but at that with that same logic [00:03:31] whenever it comes to sperm and eggs that [00:03:33] is human DNA. So do you think that let's [00:03:36] say hypothetically I don't know [00:03:39] >> do you think just like a collection of [00:03:41] sperm is a human? [00:03:42] >> Of course not cuz it hasn't been [00:03:43] fertilized. We believe no we believe [00:03:45] fertilized eggs are human beings. Sperm [00:03:47] are not human beings. [00:03:48] >> But not all fertilized eggs develop into [00:03:50] a human being. [00:03:51] >> No of course not. And that's a process [00:03:52] that occurs in uterero. In fact it needs [00:03:54] to go even a step further. The egg needs [00:03:55] to be fertilized and it needs to attach [00:03:57] to the uterine wall. But that once the [00:04:00] egg is fertilized, new DNA is formed. So [00:04:03] what's so special about how God created [00:04:04] this process, you don't have to believe [00:04:06] it's God, you could believe it's just a [00:04:07] mistake, which I think is wrong, is that [00:04:09] you have two sets of DNA, male, female, [00:04:12] they obviously have sex, and a third DNA [00:04:15] that's unique is created. That's amazing [00:04:18] when you think about that. Totally new [00:04:19] DNA, new characteristics, new [00:04:22] inclinations, new agency. And so [00:04:24] therefore if we take your hum your [00:04:26] process of human development so we go [00:04:28] through the neonatal stage we go through [00:04:30] the adult you know the the primary [00:04:31] adolescent stage we go all the way up to [00:04:33] elderly what was that beginning point [00:04:36] it's not religious to say it's [00:04:37] conception that's when your DNA started [00:04:40] >> okay [00:04:42] so the the entire point I was going to [00:04:44] make is since we're going to include [00:04:47] what's the general stance on the [00:04:48] abortion topic stems from religion I [00:04:51] >> it stems from morality which then We we [00:04:54] >> but you're you're stemming that from [00:04:55] religious morality. [00:04:56] >> I personally do at a American Western [00:04:59] morality stems from biblical truth. But [00:05:02] you and I both can agree murder is [00:05:03] wrong, right? Yes. So I don't need to go [00:05:05] to the Bible to do that. So [00:05:06] >> but let's say hypothetically you're a [00:05:08] woman. If you were giving birth and you [00:05:09] know your body did not have the function [00:05:11] to facilitate giving birth and you knew [00:05:13] it would kill you, would you go through [00:05:16] with an abortion or would you [00:05:17] >> No. I mean you you would try the best of [00:05:18] the gestational process. You're talking [00:05:20] about extraordinarily rare [00:05:22] circumstances. I mean, it's not [00:05:23] extraordinarily rare. It happens. [00:05:25] >> It's extraordinarily rare. Well under [00:05:27] 150 cases. [00:05:28] >> But the point I'm making is there should [00:05:29] be exceptions. [00:05:30] >> So, how about this? Let me let me try to [00:05:32] find a point of agreement. If I can [00:05:34] agree with you that life of the mother [00:05:36] should be allowed for abortion, which is [00:05:38] a debated topic, and even or should we [00:05:41] be able to outlaw all other types of [00:05:44] abortion? [00:05:46] >> I will not fully disagree with that. [00:05:48] >> Okay, fair enough. So, just so we know, [00:05:50] 99.5 of all abortions are done as a form [00:05:53] of birth control. They're not because of [00:05:55] or life of the mother. They're because [00:05:57] someone gets oops, they get pregnant, [00:05:58] something didn't work, and that it's [00:06:00] just kind of a regret like let's get rid [00:06:02] of the baby. [00:06:03] >> But my stance was that to make way for [00:06:06] the exceptions. That's the only thing I [00:06:07] was speaking. [00:06:08] >> Fair enough. Here's why we are against [00:06:09] the exceptions. Life of the mother is a [00:06:11] difficult one, which we believe is over [00:06:14] over confused. But let's put that one [00:06:16] aside. We do not believe that just [00:06:18] because a baby is conceived in an ugly [00:06:20] or awful or evil way such as that that [00:06:23] baby should not also get human rights. [00:06:24] Well, I was also making the point since [00:06:26] you're completely against this like [00:06:28] exceptions that if the bait like I know [00:06:32] I'm know I'm looping but I'm also trying [00:06:34] to like get to the concrete point is [00:06:35] that if you are going to give birth and [00:06:38] you know that it will kill you no matter [00:06:40] what there are like you are able to tell [00:06:43] >> birth that that's why cescareian section [00:06:45] is the first [00:06:46] >> but that also doesn't work for everybody [00:06:48] >> correct and [00:06:49] >> so for those except if it doesn't work [00:06:50] for you and you can't give birth are you [00:06:52] expected to die of sexuality Cesarian [00:06:55] section is not a traditional vaginal [00:06:56] birth. So basically what you're saying [00:06:59] >> is is there a situation where someone [00:07:02] gets pregnant and they're not able to [00:07:04] bring a baby healthfully to like 26 [00:07:06] weeks, 27 weeks, 28 weeks. That is such [00:07:09] an enor I I will leave that to the [00:07:11] OBGYNS to debate. That is such an [00:07:14] enormously rare case. Instead, what we [00:07:16] find is this. We find the abortion. [00:07:19] >> But if it's rare, then why is there not [00:07:20] an ability? [00:07:21] >> Because they don't want to deliver the [00:07:22] baby C-section. Instead, they want to [00:07:24] have an abortion. [00:07:25] >> People can also die in C-sections. [00:07:27] >> Yes, of course. And people can also die [00:07:29] people die in abortions all the time. In [00:07:31] fact, a a young lady died 3 weeks ago. [00:07:33] >> Also, at the same time, that's your [00:07:34] choice to have an abortion. You don't [00:07:36] have to go through with that. [00:07:37] >> But we're talking about medical events [00:07:39] have risk no matter what. You could you [00:07:41] could die in surgery for your hand. [00:07:43] Okay? And praise God that we found a way [00:07:45] to, you know, thankfully deaths have [00:07:48] gone down the last 30 years. They're [00:07:49] going back up, but hopefully they go [00:07:50] keep going down. We we don't we don't [00:07:52] debate the argument that pregnancy can [00:07:55] be dangerous. What we are saying though [00:07:57] is that abortion absolutely creates a [00:08:00] carcass. [00:08:01] It absolutely does. You you have a dead [00:08:04] body with an abortion by definition. [00:08:06] Okay? You if you have cesareian section, [00:08:09] you have a chance of life. And if you [00:08:11] have the ability of abortion with those [00:08:13] rare cases, you have a chance of life as [00:08:15] well. [00:08:16] >> No, your baby's dead though. You have a [00:08:17] carcass. [00:08:17] >> Yeah. But I'm saying if you the there [00:08:19] are also cases the mother continues to [00:08:22] give birth and her and the baby die. [00:08:24] >> Correct. Again, so there's [00:08:25] >> So, are you saying that they should both [00:08:27] die and they don't deserve an exception? [00:08:28] >> No, of course not. But we want everyone [00:08:30] to live. What what you're getting at and [00:08:32] I just want to say you've been very [00:08:33] propagandized by the numbers. You should [00:08:35] look at how rare these instances [00:08:36] actually are. [00:08:37] >> The point I'm making is sense is rare. [00:08:38] It should not be a problem then. [00:08:40] >> But hold on. It is morally a problem [00:08:42] because the OBGYNS lie to the patients [00:08:45] because c C-sections very well could be [00:08:47] an option and these moms never learn it. [00:08:49] The earliest time of viability is 22 [00:08:52] weeks now. There are 22 week old babies [00:08:54] that survive a NICU that we were told 20 [00:08:57] years ago that never would happen. It [00:08:58] used to be the earliest with 30 weeks [00:09:00] and it keeps on marching earlier and [00:09:02] earlier and earlier. Almost every single [00:09:04] woman that is told your life is in [00:09:05] danger, do you know what happens? [00:09:07] There's a break in the uterine wall [00:09:08] around 30 to 35 weeks. That's usually [00:09:10] the time period that it happens, right? [00:09:12] And so they can go in for an abortion or [00:09:15] they could have what's called an [00:09:15] autotopic pre pregnancy, which is a [00:09:17] completely different situation than an [00:09:19] abortion. We come at it from a moral [00:09:21] standpoint that they're both human lives [00:09:24] and everything should be done medically [00:09:26] until everything has been exhausted to [00:09:28] save both lives. [00:09:29] >> Yeah. [00:09:29] >> Does that make sense? [00:09:30] >> Yeah, I see where you're coming from. [00:09:31] >> Okay. And then my final point tying into [00:09:32] that. So, do you So, do you think that [00:09:36] with the overwhelming majority of people [00:09:38] who support that being a religiousbased [00:09:41] uh law, do you think we should [00:09:42] incorporate more religious-based laws? [00:09:44] We should have more laws that stem from [00:09:47] absolute truth, but you must be able to [00:09:49] defend them using reason and universally [00:09:52] agreed principles. We are not a [00:09:53] theocracy, but Christianity undergurs [00:09:56] our entire society. And so, for example, [00:09:58] universal human equality, that's a [00:10:00] Christian idea. It's not a secular one. [00:10:02] protection of rights, the fact that [00:10:04] children are off limits. The fact of I [00:10:06] mean these ideas are Christian ideas. [00:10:08] You go to other countries, they don't [00:10:09] agree with us. And so you must [00:10:11] understand that the things that we think [00:10:13] are common sense is really Christian [00:10:15] sense. We are the inheritors of a [00:10:17] Christian tradition. [00:10:18] >> The the thing the point I was making is [00:10:19] that that Christianity has been used to [00:10:22] oppress people within the US. A a big [00:10:24] justification for a a big justification [00:10:27] for slavery was the American uh was the [00:10:29] Christian body. On the opposite side, [00:10:31] the the largest justification for the [00:10:33] eradication of slavery was also [00:10:34] Christianity. And so any religion can be [00:10:37] misinterpreted and misapplied for evil [00:10:40] or bad purposes. But that doesn't mean [00:10:42] that the text or the religion itself is [00:10:44] evil. Christianity properly understood [00:10:46] led to the abolition of slavery. It led [00:10:48] to the protection of individual rights. [00:10:50] It led to the creation of the West. It [00:10:52] led to free speech practices. And so you [00:10:55] can always find something that is used [00:10:56] for wrong. Then why use that as a basis [00:10:59] for a law for a person that is not [00:11:01] completely interpreted first of all [00:11:02] because it is our birth certificate. [00:11:04] >> We have the great nation thanks to [00:11:05] Christianity. [00:11:06] >> But if you weren't born in the US, you [00:11:07] would not be Christian. If you were born [00:11:08] in a Muslim country, you would not be [00:11:10] Christian. [00:11:10] >> And they don't they don't have a free [00:11:11] society. So the point is, can you point [00:11:13] >> and we don't have a completely free [00:11:14] society either. [00:11:15] >> We have we used to have the freest [00:11:16] society and we have a great we have the [00:11:18] greatest country in the world still. But [00:11:20] I would ask you for a second, what [00:11:21] country is better than America? Is there [00:11:23] one? [00:11:23] >> Not many. [00:11:24] >> Okay. Why? [00:11:27] No, I mean there there's definitely [00:11:29] countries that have better that are [00:11:30] better in certain aspects. That's why I [00:11:32] said not. [00:11:32] >> Yeah. I I would say though then we [00:11:34] should ask the question why. It's [00:11:35] because this country was foundationally [00:11:37] Christian by Christians and the idea of [00:11:40] the Christian ethic, we are still [00:11:42] spending down that inheritance. If you [00:11:44] go to the Muslim countries, you go to [00:11:46] the secular countries, they don't have [00:11:48] the same sort of prosperity, flourishing [00:11:49] or freedom that we enjoy in this [00:11:51] country. Thank you very much.