📄 Extracted Text (33,577 words)
[00:00:01] [Music]
[00:00:05] Daryl Cooper, ladies and gentlemen, it
[00:00:06] feels so naughty and forbidden to be
[00:00:08] sitting here with you. It's like getting
[00:00:10] caught in a strip bar. Just kidding. Um,
[00:00:12] I'm so grateful that you came. Um, not
[00:00:15] everyone feels that way. I just want to
[00:00:17] dispense with the political aspect of
[00:00:19] this by reading a verbate. I don't have
[00:00:21] the tape for some reason, but this was
[00:00:23] my my old friend Mark Leven on his show
[00:00:25] today. And uh, this is the transcript
[00:00:28] that I got. live in. And it actually
[00:00:30] says in parenthesis, screaming like an
[00:00:31] old woman. I don't know if that was
[00:00:33] actually on Fox or not, but but I'm
[00:00:34] quoting. Why are these insane
[00:00:36] knuckleheaded no nothings, these
[00:00:38] propagandists, these demagogues given
[00:00:41] platforms? Someone gave us a platform.
[00:00:43] Amazing. By God, I'm going to take this
[00:00:46] crap on for as long as I live because
[00:00:47] it's destroying our youth and destroying
[00:00:50] their minds.
[00:00:52] >> I'm glad he's standing up. Somebody has
[00:00:54] to. That guy sounds like a monster.
[00:00:55] Who's he talking about?
[00:00:56] >> You and me. Um, so I think it'd be
[00:01:00] really fun to spend maybe three hours,
[00:01:02] you know, being mean to Mark a little
[00:01:03] bit. I've already done that. I want to
[00:01:06] create a documentary record. You've
[00:01:08] already done this with your podcast, but
[00:01:09] for people who haven't seen it, I want
[00:01:10] to create a documentary record here of
[00:01:13] everything that we know or think we know
[00:01:15] without too much speculation. Just like
[00:01:17] stick to the facts about Jeffrey Epste,
[00:01:19] the basic questions of Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:01:21] I feel like I know a lot about this
[00:01:23] topic. You know much more than I know.
[00:01:25] So without further preamble and just
[00:01:28] being clear, I'm not here to make
[00:01:31] political points about this or comment
[00:01:32] on the unfolding drama around it, which
[00:01:34] is quite remarkable. I don't really
[00:01:36] understand it. So people tuning in to
[00:01:39] learn what is happening at the White
[00:01:41] House or in the Congress about this, I
[00:01:43] can't really say at this point. There'll
[00:01:45] be time for that. But for right now, I'd
[00:01:47] really just like to learn about Jeffrey
[00:01:49] Epstein. So with that, who was Jeffrey
[00:01:52] Epstein?
[00:01:54] Well, Jeffrey Epstein just started out
[00:01:55] as a normal guy born in Coney Island 19
[00:01:58] uh in the 1950s. First record we really
[00:02:01] have of him when he appears for us is in
[00:02:03] 1974 when he's hired to teach
[00:02:06] mathematics at the Dalton School, which
[00:02:07] is an elite private school in New York
[00:02:09] City.
[00:02:10] >> Now, I'm not familiar with New York City
[00:02:13] uh K- through2 education system, but I'm
[00:02:15] I'm told it's a very elite place that uh
[00:02:18] it can have their pick of mathematics
[00:02:20] teachers from all over the world if they
[00:02:21] want it. And so, uh, they hire a guy
[00:02:24] who's 20 years old who dropped out of
[00:02:26] college after two years at Cooper Union
[00:02:29] with no teaching experience, uh, to
[00:02:31] teach math at this school. Um, basically
[00:02:33] >> at the age of 20.
[00:02:34] >> At the age of 20, uh, basically on the
[00:02:36] strength of a meeting with, uh, the
[00:02:38] headmaster of the school at the time, a
[00:02:40] guy by the name of Donald Bar.
[00:02:42] >> Um,
[00:02:43] >> who was Donald Bar?
[00:02:44] >> Yeah. So, that name might sound
[00:02:45] familiar. Donald Bar is a very
[00:02:46] interesting character. uh not least
[00:02:48] because his son, Bill Barr, was the
[00:02:50] attorney general who had Jeffrey Epstein
[00:02:52] arrested and oversaw his death in the
[00:02:54] federal uh jail that he was in.
[00:02:56] >> Can I just ask you, I've already said I
[00:02:58] wouldn't interject, but I'm asking you
[00:02:58] to pause already. Um,
[00:03:02] what are the statistical the actual odds
[00:03:04] of that? The attorney general of the
[00:03:06] United States who arrested Jeffrey
[00:03:08] Epste, oversaw his death, declared his
[00:03:10] death a suicide before the investigation
[00:03:12] ended, is the son of the guy who hired
[00:03:15] Jeffrey Epstein at age 20 with no
[00:03:17] teaching experience or college degree to
[00:03:19] teach at one of the most prestigious
[00:03:20] schools in Manhattan. What are the If
[00:03:21] you were like, "Hey, Grock, what are the
[00:03:22] odds? What do you think the odds are?"
[00:03:24] >> Well, let's whatever the odds are, let's
[00:03:26] add a few more zeros to that. Okay.
[00:03:28] >> So, uh, Donald Bar was also somebody who
[00:03:32] was he used to work for the OSS, which
[00:03:34] was the precursor to the CIA back during
[00:03:35] World War II. So, he has that
[00:03:37] connection. Uh,
[00:03:40] excuse me. Um, Donald Bar also uh
[00:03:43] dabbled in science fiction writing in
[00:03:45] his spare time.
[00:03:46] >> Uh, one of the books that he wrote is
[00:03:49] called Space Relations, and he wrote it
[00:03:50] right around this time that he hired
[00:03:51] Jeffrey Epstein. And I've read the book,
[00:03:53] and you can go read about it on
[00:03:54] Wikipedia. It's close enough to
[00:03:56] basically what the plot is if you want
[00:03:57] to get the idea of it. The long and
[00:03:59] short is
[00:04:00] >> But you read the book.
[00:04:01] >> Oh, yeah. I have I have a copy. I make
[00:04:02] sure I get a copy of things like that.
[00:04:03] I've got a copy of uh you know, I went
[00:04:05] out and made sure I got a copy of the
[00:04:07] Architectural Digest in Washington Life
[00:04:09] magazines that um that profiled Tony
[00:04:12] Podesta's house and art collection just
[00:04:14] in case, you know, just in case it
[00:04:17] disappears.
[00:04:18] >> Um and so yeah, I got a copy of it. I
[00:04:20] read it. It's not a good book. Um, it's
[00:04:22] a pulpy kind of Elron Hubard style
[00:04:24] science fiction book sort of, but the
[00:04:26] basic plot of it involves a main the
[00:04:28] main character
[00:04:30] who is kidnapped and sold into slavery
[00:04:32] on this alien planet that's ruled by
[00:04:35] seven oligarchs who uh just have been
[00:04:38] corrupted by their power and their
[00:04:40] wealth to the point where they're
[00:04:42] they're basically insane. and they spend
[00:04:44] most of their time breeding young slaves
[00:04:47] and kidnapping uh children uh from
[00:04:49] around the universe to bring them home
[00:04:51] and use them as sex slaves. And the main
[00:04:53] character, he gets assigned or given to
[00:04:56] uh the one female oligarch on the
[00:04:58] planet. And at first, you know, he's
[00:05:00] sort of one of her slaves and victims,
[00:05:02] but then she takes a liking to him and
[00:05:03] he joins her and uh and participates in
[00:05:08] in what's going on. And there are scenes
[00:05:10] in there right near the beginning.
[00:05:11] There's a scene of these grotesque
[00:05:13] aliens that kidnap the guy that they
[00:05:14] make the one of them makes the uh the
[00:05:16] the prisoners watch while he uh you know
[00:05:20] rapes a 15-year-old virginal redhead.
[00:05:23] And um so this is these are the books uh
[00:05:25] that Donald Bar, former OSS agent,
[00:05:29] father of uh Bill Bar, the attorney
[00:05:31] general who had Jeffrey Epstein arrested
[00:05:34] and oversaw his death. Um, these are the
[00:05:36] kind of books that he was writing at the
[00:05:38] time that he hired the most notorious
[00:05:40] pedophile in American history. So,
[00:05:42] whatever the odds of the first part
[00:05:44] were, you can probably add a few zeros
[00:05:46] to that. And we can keep adding zeros if
[00:05:48] you want.
[00:05:49] >> I do.
[00:05:50] >> I mean, it's hard to believe that this
[00:05:52] is real, but it it is real. What you're
[00:05:53] describing is real.
[00:05:55] >> Yeah. Totally real. Totally verifiable.
[00:05:57] This is not stuff you're going to find
[00:05:58] on fringe websites. You can find it in,
[00:06:01] you know, any mainstream story about it,
[00:06:03] Wikipedia, even whatever. Um so Bill Bar
[00:06:06] uh himself uh you know he was an
[00:06:08] intelligence connected guy very deeply.
[00:06:10] His first job out of college was as an
[00:06:12] intern for the CIA in the mid70s. And
[00:06:15] that doesn't sound like much um until
[00:06:18] you learn that he was a legal intern
[00:06:19] with the CIA whose job was to be the
[00:06:22] liaison to Congress during the Church
[00:06:24] and Pipe Committee hearings that were
[00:06:26] really like the first and up to this
[00:06:28] point probably only time that the CIA
[00:06:31] CIA has faced a real threat of of
[00:06:34] oversight and and clamping down on its
[00:06:36] activities. And so this was a very very
[00:06:38] critical time when a lot of the agency's
[00:06:40] secrets were coming out and they were
[00:06:43] facing the possibility of well they
[00:06:46] didn't know I mean the agency might have
[00:06:48] gotten shut down you know if this had
[00:06:49] gone badly for them and so Bill Bar is
[00:06:51] the legal intern who was the liaison and
[00:06:54] what that meant was you know he was the
[00:06:55] guy that when Congress requested some
[00:06:57] documents he's like okay goes back to
[00:07:00] the agency here's what they want okay
[00:07:02] well here's what we can give them and he
[00:07:04] goes back and convinces them that this
[00:07:06] is all there is or that they don't need
[00:07:07] the rest or anything like that. He was
[00:07:09] that guy, you know, to smooth that over
[00:07:11] and make it work. And he apparently did
[00:07:12] a very good job because the boss of the
[00:07:14] CIA at the time was George HW Bush. When
[00:07:18] George HW Bush took over as was elected
[00:07:21] president 1988, took over in '89, he
[00:07:24] brought in Bill Barr to be his attorney
[00:07:26] general, who's really who spent most of
[00:07:29] his time like at least the big story.
[00:07:31] I'm sure an attorney general does a lot
[00:07:32] of things and wears a lot of hats, but
[00:07:34] the major story that was going on at the
[00:07:36] time was cleaning up the what was left
[00:07:38] of the Iran Contra affair. And so you
[00:07:40] have the guy who was the legal intern
[00:07:42] for the CIA during the Church and Pike
[00:07:44] Committee hearings, brought in by the
[00:07:47] director of the CIA at the time to be
[00:07:49] the attorney general who is cleaning up
[00:07:51] the Iran Contra affair that took place
[00:07:53] obviously while Bush was uh the vice
[00:07:56] president. He goes into the private
[00:07:58] sector for a while, reemerges when
[00:07:59] Donald Trump needs um an attorney
[00:08:02] general of his own, not for any
[00:08:04] particular reason, I guess, except uh
[00:08:06] you know, then this happens. He just
[00:08:08] happens to arrest the guy that his
[00:08:10] father gave his first job to, job that
[00:08:12] he was totally unqualified for. and uh a
[00:08:15] guy who had proclivities um that most of
[00:08:18] us find very strange and unacceptable
[00:08:21] and are very very rare but
[00:08:24] coincidentally happened to be uh the
[00:08:26] very topic that that Donald Bar's father
[00:08:30] liked to write books about. So very
[00:08:32] strange it could all be a coincidence
[00:08:34] but the odds are against that. So,
[00:08:37] Donald Bar hires, that's a remarkable
[00:08:40] story. And I I believe and I've said it
[00:08:43] to him that uh Bill Barr as attorney
[00:08:46] general helped cover up uh Epstein's
[00:08:49] death, the details of his death. Again,
[00:08:50] we hear the facts. The facts are that he
[00:08:52] declared it a suicide before they'd
[00:08:53] finished the investigation or even
[00:08:55] really began the investigation. So, that
[00:08:57] alone uh suggests suggests dishonesty, I
[00:09:02] think, anyway, or lack of rigor or
[00:09:05] something. What happened to Jeffrey
[00:09:07] Epstein at Dalton? How long was he
[00:09:08] there?
[00:09:09] >> He was there for about a year and a
[00:09:10] half, two years only. And then he was
[00:09:11] fired for poor performance is how it got
[00:09:13] written up. And maybe it was that again,
[00:09:16] he had no teaching experience and no
[00:09:18] college degree. So it may have just been
[00:09:19] he was a bad math teacher. But there are
[00:09:21] people who had children as students at
[00:09:23] the time who actually say he was a good
[00:09:24] math teacher. So maybe maybe it had to
[00:09:26] do with something else. Maybe it had to
[00:09:27] do with the fact that there were already
[00:09:29] allegations against Jeffrey Epstein by
[00:09:32] the girls he was teaching at this high
[00:09:33] school of inappropriate behavior. He
[00:09:35] would even show up to u high school
[00:09:38] parties sometimes where kids are
[00:09:39] drinking and partying and he would show
[00:09:41] up as the teacher, the adult, and kind
[00:09:42] of just try to join in. So there were
[00:09:44] those complaints that were going on. But
[00:09:46] while he was at Daltton School before he
[00:09:48] got uh run out,
[00:09:51] one of the students he was teaching was
[00:09:53] uh the father of one of the students he
[00:09:56] was teaching was uh the CEO of the
[00:09:58] investment bank, Bear Sterns at the
[00:09:59] time, Ace Greenberg he's known as. And
[00:10:02] um he approached I I've heard it was Bar
[00:10:05] himself. I don't know if that's the
[00:10:06] case, but uh he approached somebody um
[00:10:09] who was one of his bosses or one of the
[00:10:11] people who had uh brought him into the
[00:10:13] school and asked if he would make the
[00:10:14] introduction to Ace Greenberg and uh put
[00:10:17] in a good word for him. And so he meets
[00:10:18] Greenberg in Greenberg when he gets run
[00:10:20] out of Dalton brings him on at Bear
[00:10:22] Sterns. And um they they put him to work
[00:10:24] at
[00:10:25] >> so by this point Jeffrey Epstein's like
[00:10:27] 22 21
[00:10:29] >> thereabouts. He's this is 1976. I think
[00:10:31] he was born in 53. So yeah, 23 years old
[00:10:33] maybe
[00:10:34] >> with no college degree. Two years of
[00:10:37] college at Cooper Union and he's been a
[00:10:41] high school math teacher and he got
[00:10:43] basically fired from that job and he
[00:10:45] gets hired at Bear Sterns.
[00:10:46] >> He gets hired at Bear Sterns. Um
[00:10:48] >> is that normal?
[00:10:49] >> I couldn't tell you. Um especially back
[00:10:51] then. I'm not really sure. Um I doubt it
[00:10:55] >> doesn't sound normal. Um but whatever.
[00:10:57] So he gets brought in and the story goes
[00:10:58] that they put him on the options desk at
[00:11:00] first but uh he was not very good at it
[00:11:02] or not very engaged or interested in it
[00:11:04] and so they put him in their special
[00:11:05] products division where uh Jimmy Kaine
[00:11:08] who took over as CEO of Bear Sterns from
[00:11:10] Ace Greenberg described what Epstein did
[00:11:12] there in the special products division
[00:11:14] and he basically in so many words in
[00:11:17] sort of the you know Wall Street
[00:11:18] financial speak um said that his job was
[00:11:22] to help wealthy clients hide their money
[00:11:25] um to create you tax advantageous
[00:11:28] transactions that you know that kind of
[00:11:29] thing but it was to help wealthy clients
[00:11:31] hide their money
[00:11:32] >> and while he was doing that he met and
[00:11:35] came into contact with a lot of uh
[00:11:37] well-known people who became very
[00:11:39] important for the rest of his career
[00:11:41] wealthy clients yeah and like one of
[00:11:43] them for example was
[00:11:44] >> uh Edgar Bronman who will come up later
[00:11:46] in our story he's uh one of the heirs to
[00:11:48] the serum's liquor fortune um very
[00:11:51] connected guy we'll probably get to that
[00:11:53] in a while um but that only lasts four
[00:11:56] years he's there at Bear Sterns from 76
[00:11:59] to 1980 and then he gets run out of Bear
[00:12:01] Sterns for a regulatory violation and
[00:12:05] you know the story kind of goes there
[00:12:07] the official story from the people who
[00:12:09] were all involved in it at the time are
[00:12:11] that he was breaking the rules and they
[00:12:13] were very very very upset about it but
[00:12:14] apparently he stayed friends close
[00:12:16] friends with Ace Greenberg and Jimmy
[00:12:18] Kaine for a long time after that and he
[00:12:20] banked with Bear Sterns all the way up
[00:12:21] until the time the investment bank
[00:12:23] collapsed in 2008. So, there weren't
[00:12:26] that many hard feelings or that intense
[00:12:28] of hard feelings apparently. Um, but he
[00:12:30] left and I think the I think the reason
[00:12:32] for it is probably pretty obvious. Um,
[00:12:35] he just got a little too aggressive uh
[00:12:38] and flew a little too close to the sun
[00:12:40] doing the job that they had hired him to
[00:12:42] do, you know,
[00:12:43] >> and um and so he had to leave because
[00:12:45] there was a violation. They didn't want
[00:12:46] the attention and everything, but he
[00:12:47] landed on his feet. He stayed friends
[00:12:49] with the people who hired him, all those
[00:12:50] kind of things. And this is where it
[00:12:52] gets like really interesting.
[00:12:54] So again, to go over his resume,
[00:12:57] he does two years of college, drops out,
[00:13:00] gets hired as a high school math
[00:13:02] teacher, is run out of that job
[00:13:04] igniminiously, either for poor
[00:13:06] performance or for harassing his female
[00:13:07] students. Then he goes to work for Bear
[00:13:10] Sterns, does that for just a few years,
[00:13:12] and gets run out of there for a
[00:13:14] regulatory violation. And that is his
[00:13:16] resume at this point. There's nothing
[00:13:17] else I'm leaving out. The very next
[00:13:19] year, this would make him, I guess, 28
[00:13:22] years old. 1981. He's 28 years old. We
[00:13:26] have him on a private airplane with a
[00:13:30] big-time British arms broker named
[00:13:32] Douglas Lease, very big player back in
[00:13:35] the 1980s. Um, on a private plane to go
[00:13:39] to a meeting at the Pentagon with this
[00:13:41] guy.
[00:13:41] >> Okay. Not for the first time. I'm going
[00:13:43] to stop you and say it doesn't make any
[00:13:45] sense at all.
[00:13:47] >> Not if Yeah. So, uh, if you're looking
[00:13:49] at it in a conventional way, it doesn't
[00:13:51] >> not if you assume the world works in the
[00:13:52] ways that we're told it works. That
[00:13:54] doesn't make any sense,
[00:13:55] >> right? And so, you have to ask what is
[00:13:57] it that a guy like Douglas Lee uh would
[00:14:00] be what what interest would he have in a
[00:14:02] guy like Jeffrey Epstein? Um, even if he
[00:14:05] was a moneyman of some kind, presumably
[00:14:08] a guy like that can have any money man
[00:14:10] he wants. Why does he need a guy like
[00:14:12] Jeffrey Epstein?
[00:14:14] And I think the answer is and this is
[00:14:15] the answer to a lot a lot of researchers
[00:14:17] have come to uh over the years and I
[00:14:19] think it's the most uh the most obvious
[00:14:21] one at least the simplest is that when
[00:14:24] you look at the kind of things that
[00:14:25] somebody like Lee would do it's not as
[00:14:27] if lease owned a weapons manufacturer.
[00:14:29] That's what he did. He was a fixer. He
[00:14:30] was a guy who made the deals happen. He
[00:14:33] made sure the right people got paid off
[00:14:35] and uh that everything was kind of
[00:14:37] smoothed over so that these things would
[00:14:38] go through. He was mentioned for example
[00:14:41] in the UK parliament uh in the 1980s in
[00:14:43] reference to the Eliamama weapons deal
[00:14:45] with Saudi Arabia which is the biggest
[00:14:47] weapons deal in UK history I think to
[00:14:49] this day. Uh BAE Systems alone has made
[00:14:52] 46 billion dollars off this deal over
[00:14:54] the over the years and I think that was
[00:14:56] up through 2010 or something. So it's
[00:14:57] probably higher now. Um but there have
[00:15:00] been act there have been allegations
[00:15:02] from politicians from uh lawyers,
[00:15:05] journalists, um other weapons companies
[00:15:08] who were upset about, you know, their
[00:15:10] competition getting a leg up this way,
[00:15:11] that there were that there was bribery,
[00:15:14] there was all kinds of shady stuff going
[00:15:16] on behind the scenes to make sure that
[00:15:18] the deal went the way that they wanted
[00:15:19] it to go. And um you know, you think uh
[00:15:24] that a guy who is who who you know, a
[00:15:28] guy like Lee whose job is to go around
[00:15:30] and make sure that people are being paid
[00:15:32] off with illicit funds that cannot be
[00:15:34] traced because then you end up like
[00:15:35] Loheed Martin did when they got caught
[00:15:37] bribing officials in Japan to sign off
[00:15:39] on a weapons deal there. Nobody wants
[00:15:40] that. You got to hide your money better.
[00:15:42] You got to figure out how to do that in
[00:15:44] a way that nobody's going to track it.
[00:15:46] And that's why you need a guy like
[00:15:47] Jeffrey Epstein. You're not going to be
[00:15:49] able to walk in the front door of
[00:15:50] Goldman Sachs and say, "I need to talk
[00:15:52] to one of your money managers. Hey, can
[00:15:53] you launder this money for me?" You need
[00:15:55] a guy who's morally compromised, who is
[00:15:58] willing to get down in the dirt and do
[00:16:00] this kind of work. And that is what
[00:16:01] Jeffrey Epste had just spent the last
[00:16:03] four years at Bear Sterns doing. Um, I
[00:16:06] don't know how I I I don't know. I This
[00:16:08] may be out there, but I can't remember
[00:16:10] ever coming across how it is he met Lee.
[00:16:12] Um, but it was probably, you know, uh,
[00:16:17] through the wealthy clients that he was
[00:16:19] that he was working for there at Bear
[00:16:20] Sterns, so that when he did get run out,
[00:16:22] they made sure he landed on his feet and
[00:16:24] he was doing something that, you know,
[00:16:25] he could actually exceed at succeed at.
[00:16:28] And so you go through the 1980s
[00:16:30] and lease is the guy who introduces him
[00:16:33] to Robert Maxwell. He introduces him to
[00:16:37] a lot of big players and figures in
[00:16:39] European politics and and uh in the
[00:16:41] economy and um introduces him to Maxwell
[00:16:45] and Maxwell introduces him to his
[00:16:47] daughter Galain who became his partner
[00:16:50] in crime I I guess you'd say over the
[00:16:52] years and um Robert Maxwell's a super
[00:16:56] interesting character because you know
[00:16:58] this is the reason that I brought up
[00:16:59] near the beginning and we should
[00:17:00] probably say like the thing that the
[00:17:02] thing that people are really interested
[00:17:04] in this story about I mean there's the
[00:17:06] tabloid aspect of it. You know I think
[00:17:08] there's there's a lot of people out
[00:17:10] there who just there's all this talk
[00:17:12] about the Epstein list. You know they
[00:17:13] want they want they want there to be a
[00:17:15] safe that the FBI opens up or drills a
[00:17:17] hole and and cracks into and then
[00:17:18] there's just a ledger of you know signed
[00:17:21] in blood I Jeffrey Epstein you know
[00:17:24] compromised these famous movie stars and
[00:17:26] politicians on these days. That's what
[00:17:28] people want. They're not going to get
[00:17:29] that. That kind of thing doesn't exist.
[00:17:31] Um the really interesting aspect of it
[00:17:34] is encapsulated in just one incident
[00:17:37] which happened in uh I guess this came
[00:17:39] out after Epstein was arrested during
[00:17:41] the first Trump administration that
[00:17:43] Alexander Aosta who was Trump's labor
[00:17:45] secretary at the time uh he had been the
[00:17:49] US attorney in the southern district of
[00:17:50] Florida in charge of prosecuting
[00:17:53] Epstein's first sex crimes case back in
[00:17:55] the mid 2000s and we'll get to all this
[00:17:58] later but Epstein was was given a a very
[00:18:01] very to call it a light sentence is um
[00:18:04] is is is is being very generous in how
[00:18:06] we describe it. I'll get into the
[00:18:07] details of how it all came together and
[00:18:10] what the actual sentence was later, but
[00:18:13] um he was asked in his vetting process,
[00:18:15] Alexander Aosta, hey, if this comes up,
[00:18:17] you know, this is a potential scandal.
[00:18:19] You gave this this pedophile with all
[00:18:21] these victims against, you know, they
[00:18:22] they had like 40 witnesses in that
[00:18:24] 2007208 case. I mean, on the record,
[00:18:27] corroborating each other's stories
[00:18:29] independently. I mean, this was just the
[00:18:31] most open and shut case you can imagine.
[00:18:33] We'll get into the case here in a bit,
[00:18:34] but uh he was asked, "How could you, you
[00:18:36] know, what's what's your excuse for
[00:18:38] giving this guy the deal that you gave
[00:18:39] him because it's kind of crazy." Um, and
[00:18:42] he said, "Well, I was told that Epstein
[00:18:45] belonged to intelligence and to leave it
[00:18:47] alone." Now, this is from an, to be
[00:18:51] fair, this is from an unnamed source in
[00:18:54] the administration who was involved in
[00:18:56] that vetting process as told to the
[00:18:58] journalist Vicky Ward. Um, I don't think
[00:19:02] Ward would make that up and I don't
[00:19:03] think she would embellish.
[00:19:04] >> Well, I have something to I have
[00:19:05] something to add to this which is true
[00:19:08] and I would be delighted to talk to Mr.
[00:19:09] Aosta anytime by the way. So, I say this
[00:19:12] with the caveat that it hasn't been he
[00:19:14] has not said this to me, but I believe
[00:19:17] that he's been asked about this and that
[00:19:20] has not denied it and that his response
[00:19:23] was that's true, but I don't remember
[00:19:25] who said it to me.
[00:19:28] >> Well, I mean, how many people can tell
[00:19:31] the US attorney for the Southern
[00:19:33] District of Florida to drop a case
[00:19:34] against a pedophile with 40 on there
[00:19:37] witnesses corroborating each other's
[00:19:38] stories? There's not very many people
[00:19:40] who can tell them to do that. No,
[00:19:41] there's not many people who can murder
[00:19:43] an inmate in federal lockup in Manhattan
[00:19:44] either.
[00:19:45] >> I mean, who's he going to take that
[00:19:46] order from? And who who is it going to
[00:19:47] have enough juice from that he's going
[00:19:49] to say, "Yes, boss," and actually go do
[00:19:51] that, you know, the deputy attorney
[00:19:52] general and the attorney general, maybe.
[00:19:54] Like, that's I mean, there's just not
[00:19:56] that many people who can do that, you
[00:19:57] know, and and the whole case, and we'll
[00:19:59] get into this later, was
[00:20:02] Yeah, it's a it was just incredibly
[00:20:04] shady how it was handled from day one. I
[00:20:06] mean, uh, but yeah. Anyway, I'll put
[00:20:07] that aside because the interesting thing
[00:20:10] there is you have the most famous and
[00:20:12] prolific, uh, mass pedophile in the
[00:20:15] history of the United States, certainly
[00:20:16] the most famous one. Um, who, uh, the
[00:20:21] labor secretary under I don't know if
[00:20:23] they put people under oath when they do
[00:20:24] these vettings, probably not. But he
[00:20:26] told somebody in a setting where it
[00:20:27] mattered and where he wasn't being
[00:20:29] watched, you know, this wasn't for
[00:20:31] publicity or anything like that. It was
[00:20:32] behind closed doors. He said that
[00:20:35] Epstein belonged to intelligence, which
[00:20:37] you know could mean a lot of things. You
[00:20:39] know, a lot of people want to hear that
[00:20:40] he worked for the CIA or the MSAD or
[00:20:43] something like that. But, you know,
[00:20:45] there's a lot of uh there's a lot of
[00:20:47] wiggle room there when you say I think
[00:20:49] uh Naftali Bennett, the former Israeli
[00:20:51] prime minister, just came out recently
[00:20:52] and said, "I can say categorically that
[00:20:55] Jeffrey Epstein did not work for the
[00:20:57] MSAD." It's like, yeah, okay. So he
[00:21:00] wasn't a employee of the MSAD. Was he an
[00:21:04] asset of Israeli military intelligence,
[00:21:07] which is something different? Now, you
[00:21:08] know, Bennett's not lying, but kind of
[00:21:10] not telling the whole truth either. And
[00:21:12] so you got to be careful with uh with
[00:21:13] the wiggle room in the in the words that
[00:21:15] people use. But when you have that
[00:21:18] and when you I mean to me, I don't know,
[00:21:22] this is this maybe I'm missing something
[00:21:23] here. I'm not a journalist or anything,
[00:21:25] but I would think that when you have a
[00:21:27] story like the Jeffrey Epstein story,
[00:21:30] that every time any little piece of
[00:21:33] information has dropped about the
[00:21:34] Epstein story, ever since he was
[00:21:36] arrested, doesn't matter what it is, any
[00:21:37] little dribb and drab, it goes viral. It
[00:21:40] is the number one story that night. It
[00:21:42] is the highest ratings of any show or
[00:21:44] anything, whoever talks about it,
[00:21:45] whatever it is, everybody wants more
[00:21:47] information on this story. It's just too
[00:21:49] good to be true from like a a network or
[00:21:52] newspaper perspective, right? You talk
[00:21:54] about like billionaire playboy who has
[00:21:57] connections through just around world
[00:22:00] governments and the US government, uh,
[00:22:02] including just wealthy famous people,
[00:22:04] business owners, people that everybody
[00:22:06] has heard of and sees on TV all the
[00:22:08] time. um that that guy was running a
[00:22:11] mass pedophile ring and
[00:22:14] the labor secretary under Donald Trump
[00:22:16] who was the guy in charge of prosecuting
[00:22:18] him in 2007 said that he belonged to
[00:22:20] intelligence. I would think that every
[00:22:23] newspaper in the country and every cable
[00:22:25] news channel in the country would have a
[00:22:27] team of reporters camped out on that
[00:22:29] dude's lawn to stick a microphone in his
[00:22:31] face every time he left his house and
[00:22:33] say, "What did you mean by that? Can we
[00:22:35] get some kind of clarity on whether this
[00:22:36] pedophile was you know belonging to but
[00:22:39] we don't get that and when you don't get
[00:22:41] things like that you get a lot of room
[00:22:42] for speculation and uh you know it's
[00:22:45] kind of
[00:22:45] >> justified speculation I mean what what
[00:22:47] is that and instead you get a lot of
[00:22:49] emphasis on the sex part
[00:22:52] >> which deserves attention of course these
[00:22:54] are sex crimes apparently in some cases
[00:22:57] against minors horrible not acceptable
[00:23:01] but the other parts are completely
[00:23:03] ignored like what was this guy doing
[00:23:05] this Cooper Union non-graduate who bare
[00:23:09] stir and then he's with an arms dealer
[00:23:11] flying private to a meeting at the
[00:23:13] Pentagon like take three steps back what
[00:23:15] is that hired by a guy at that first job
[00:23:17] who had connections to intelligence
[00:23:19] through the OSS um whose son was a CIA
[00:23:23] connected guy the guy I mean so all of
[00:23:24] these you know the reason I threw out
[00:23:26] all of these kind of intelligence
[00:23:28] connections that aren't you know they're
[00:23:31] they're this is all circumstantial stuff
[00:23:33] that doesn't attach necess the fact that
[00:23:35] Donald Bar worked for the OSS back
[00:23:36] during the war or that Donald or that
[00:23:38] his son Bill Barr worked for the CIA
[00:23:41] that doesn't by itself mean anything
[00:23:43] about Epstein.
[00:23:44] >> I think his son Bill Bar spent like what
[00:23:45] six years I think six. Yeah.
[00:23:47] >> So he wasn't just an intern and by the
[00:23:48] way he stayed right was an employee.
[00:23:51] >> Um but it's not just circumstantial
[00:23:52] because you have apparently the former
[00:23:55] labor secretary saying for me he was
[00:23:57] attorney federal prosecutor saying
[00:23:59] >> he belonged to intelligence. So I
[00:24:01] anyway, I'm not trying to justify my
[00:24:03] interest in this. I don't think it needs
[00:24:05] justifying, but I think
[00:24:07] the people who haven't covered the story
[00:24:10] and the the the material parts of it,
[00:24:12] the stuff that actually really matters,
[00:24:13] they need to justify their lack of
[00:24:15] interest in it. Like what is that New
[00:24:16] York Times? Yeah, you it's natural to
[00:24:19] start asking questions when when a
[00:24:22] question that would occur to anybody,
[00:24:26] somebody who just heard a five minute
[00:24:27] synopsis of the story and they're from
[00:24:29] Mars and they have never heard any of it
[00:24:31] before. You tell them the short little
[00:24:32] story, a fiveminute version of it that I
[00:24:34] just told you and the first thing
[00:24:35] they're going to ask is, "Well, what did
[00:24:38] he mean when he said that Epstein
[00:24:39] belonged to intelligence? What's going
[00:24:41] on there?" And you can't get a
[00:24:42] journalist to ask that question,
[00:24:43] >> right?
[00:24:44] >> And so it's natural for us to start
[00:24:46] wondering why that is. Well, because the
[00:24:47] the question that all this bears on, the
[00:24:50] purpose of this interview, the purpose
[00:24:51] of all questions that I've ever raised
[00:24:53] about Epstein, go back to one central
[00:24:55] question, which is who runs the world,
[00:24:58] >> who's making the decisions and on whose
[00:25:00] behalf? This idea that, you know, there
[00:25:02] are all theseund and whatever nation
[00:25:04] states each acting in its own, that's
[00:25:06] not true. And so, what is true
[00:25:09] >> and this may point us in that direction.
[00:25:12] >> Yeah. You know, one of the things that
[00:25:14] we go back to the 1980s, I mean, it's
[00:25:16] just such a fascinating time because in
[00:25:18] the Iran Contra deal, Mike Benz likes to
[00:25:20] point this out and he's great on all of
[00:25:22] the Epstein stuff in the 80s and just
[00:25:24] the a lot of the intelligence
[00:25:26] shenanigans in general going on back
[00:25:28] then is that, you know, the it really
[00:25:30] provides a window into the question
[00:25:32] you're asking right now. Who runs the
[00:25:34] world? Like, who's actually in charge of
[00:25:35] everything that's going on? How do how
[00:25:37] is power structured and how does it
[00:25:38] operate really, you know, in the world?
[00:25:41] And um if you go back to uh those the
[00:25:44] Church and Pike Committee hearings and
[00:25:46] then you roll into the Carter
[00:25:47] administration where he brings Admiral
[00:25:49] Stanfield Turner in to run the CIA and
[00:25:51] basically gives him a directive to pair
[00:25:54] down the AY's operational uh commitments
[00:25:57] and the things that it does in the in
[00:25:58] the field. Start focusing more on, you
[00:26:01] know, what what Truman thought he was
[00:26:03] getting himself into, which was, you
[00:26:05] know, a batch of analysts to help keep
[00:26:07] the president informed as he made
[00:26:08] decisions. And by all accounts, as far
[00:26:10] as I know, uh, Admiral Turner tried to
[00:26:13] do that job with some enthusiasm. Um,
[00:26:17] you you you get to the point where by
[00:26:19] the 1980s,
[00:26:21] the CIA's ability to operate is is under
[00:26:26] a lot of scrutiny and limited in ways
[00:26:28] that it never had been before. I mean,
[00:26:29] you go back the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and I
[00:26:32] mean, they were just cowboys.
[00:26:33] >> They're dosing elephants with LSD,
[00:26:35] right? Exactly. Whatever you want.
[00:26:37] they're visiting, you know, Jack Ruby in
[00:26:39] prison and turning him crazy. I mean,
[00:26:41] >> right. And so and so it's right at that
[00:26:43] time when their activities are being
[00:26:45] curtailed and under a lot of scrutiny
[00:26:47] that you start to see the emergence of
[00:26:48] the system that we have now that that
[00:26:52] pops up again and again whenever we end
[00:26:54] up in a place like Ukraine or or just
[00:26:56] anywhere where you have institutions
[00:26:58] like the National Endowment for
[00:26:59] Democracy or USAID a lot of these other
[00:27:03] organizations that you know they're not
[00:27:05] they're not the CIA they're this is I
[00:27:07] mean you have like uh one of the former
[00:27:09] heads of the National Endowment for
[00:27:11] Democra democracy on the record in an
[00:27:12] interview almost bragging in his tone
[00:27:15] saying we do all the jobs that the CIA
[00:27:17] used to do
[00:27:18] >> of course
[00:27:18] >> and so it was outsourced you know the
[00:27:19] CIA
[00:27:20] >> in coordination with CIA and other
[00:27:22] >> 100% 100%
[00:27:24] >> and so uh
[00:27:27] >> that's when you get guys like Epstein
[00:27:28] who are you know they're not uh
[00:27:31] economists that are or or finance guys
[00:27:34] that are hired by the agency and given
[00:27:35] an office and a CIA you know GS rank or
[00:27:38] something they're freelancers they're
[00:27:39] mercenaries they work for the CIA today,
[00:27:42] they might work for MI6 tomorrow, they
[00:27:44] might work for the MSAD or Israeli
[00:27:46] Defense Intelligence the next day. And
[00:27:47] so that's one of the things a lot of
[00:27:49] people want to hear that he was an agent
[00:27:51] of this organization and like sort of
[00:27:53] have it nice and patent tight like that.
[00:27:56] And it may be that he did more work for
[00:27:57] one than the other. He had more loyalty
[00:27:59] to one than the other, things like that.
[00:28:01] When you look at his various connections
[00:28:03] that we'll get into, maybe there's, you
[00:28:04] know, conclusions to draw there. Um, but
[00:28:06] he was he was one of these guys who was
[00:28:08] kind of a freelance fixer that would be
[00:28:10] used by the intelligence uh communities
[00:28:12] of countries that you know that he I
[00:28:15] assume he wouldn't go run off and do it
[00:28:17] for Russian intelligence back in the
[00:28:19] 1980s. But as you said, you know, the
[00:28:21] idea that there's a hundred something
[00:28:23] independent nation states all acting in
[00:28:25] their own interest, that's a that's a
[00:28:27] fiction today. It was a fiction
[00:28:28] yesterday. It was a fiction in the
[00:28:29] 1980s, you know. So to say like where
[00:28:32] exactly is the line and it shifts from
[00:28:34] decade to decade depending on what's
[00:28:36] going on, but where exactly is the line
[00:28:37] between the CIA and MI6, they're
[00:28:40] different. They, you know, they they
[00:28:42] compete with each other in various ways
[00:28:43] and so forth, but I mean
[00:28:47] to say that they're two just totally
[00:28:49] separate independent agencies that are
[00:28:50] acting alone and I mean that's obviously
[00:28:53] just not that's just not true. And so
[00:28:55] Epstein was an asset of this network of
[00:28:58] intelligence agencies that would that
[00:28:59] would that would do these things
[00:29:00] together. And um you know the Iran he he
[00:29:03] was he was deeply involved with uh the
[00:29:06] money side of the Iran Contra scandal.
[00:29:09] One of the people that uh Douglas Lee
[00:29:11] introduced him to besides Robert Maxwell
[00:29:13] was Adnan Kosigible who the last name
[00:29:15] probably sounds familiar to people from
[00:29:16] the news recently. He was the Washington
[00:29:18] Post columnist or editorialist
[00:29:20] >> who was chopped up into little pieces in
[00:29:22] the Turkish embassy um by by Saudi or
[00:29:25] the Saudi embassy in Istanbul
[00:29:27] >> by by you know the Saudis who had who
[00:29:30] had taken him
[00:29:31] >> and um
[00:29:33] >> Adnan Koshogi was his uncle and he's he
[00:29:35] was kind of the you know he's the real
[00:29:37] Kosogi the real
[00:29:38] >> they're only like four families that
[00:29:39] control the world so far we have the
[00:29:41] bushes the bars the Kosogi it's like
[00:29:44] everything but everybody's reoccurring
[00:29:45] in this
[00:29:46] >> well even the Kosogi are kind of an
[00:29:47] example of what I'm talking about here
[00:29:49] where uh you know it's useful like it
[00:29:52] we'd be talking about somebody other
[00:29:54] than Adnan Kosigible if it if his name
[00:29:56] was uh Adnan al-Soud you know the fact
[00:30:00] that he's not a part of the royal family
[00:30:02] he's a cutout these people are cutouts
[00:30:03] because that's what you need you need
[00:30:05] >> when it gets to a point where um
[00:30:08] >> you know they get a little bit too loose
[00:30:10] too public they start doing things that
[00:30:13] are drawing too much attention that you
[00:30:14] can cut them loose without it being your
[00:30:17] cousin or brother that's going to cause
[00:30:18] like real internal strife, you know, and
[00:30:20] that's what happened. Anan Kashogi
[00:30:22] eventually went to jail. But so Anan
[00:30:24] Kosigible was like the the comic book
[00:30:26] version of like your u you know your
[00:30:28] Arab billionaire just sort of very
[00:30:31] decadent everything gold crazy giant
[00:30:33] yacht that was later bought by Donald
[00:30:35] Trump actually. Um but Anan Kosigible
[00:30:38] was and again this is uh this is
[00:30:39] mainstream news. You don't have
[00:30:41] >> he had a harum
[00:30:42] >> the whole thing like whatever you think
[00:30:44] that uh somebody like that would be like
[00:30:46] that's what he was that's what he was
[00:30:47] like although apparently a very devout
[00:30:49] Muslim uh which is you know seems like a
[00:30:51] contradiction but I don't pretend to
[00:30:54] >> also in in the words of people I know
[00:30:55] who knew him good guy
[00:30:57] >> yeah isn't that funny
[00:30:59] >> good guy
[00:31:00] >> um but he was one of these fixers he was
[00:31:03] in fact probably in the 1980s for a long
[00:31:04] time probably the most prominent fixer
[00:31:06] when it came came to weapons brokering
[00:31:08] things like that you got to remember in
[00:31:09] the 1980s 80s. This really kicked into
[00:31:12] like super high gear in the 90s, but
[00:31:14] it's already going on in the 80s as the
[00:31:16] Soviet Union was starting to fall apart.
[00:31:18] I mean, they had a first world empire's
[00:31:21] military arsenal that was just going on
[00:31:23] sale by every colonel who had control of
[00:31:26] an armory or something, you know,
[00:31:28] putting this stuff on the market because
[00:31:29] everybody can look around and realize
[00:31:30] that the ship's sinking and they want to
[00:31:32] go pull the nice brass door knobs and,
[00:31:35] you know, sink fixtures off so they can
[00:31:36] escape. And that was happening even in
[00:31:38] the 1980s. And that's why, you know, you
[00:31:40] look around the world back then and
[00:31:42] everywhere you look, you got civil wars,
[00:31:45] you've got militias kicking off
[00:31:46] revolutions, and they've all got AKs,
[00:31:48] they've got all the Russianmade gear
[00:31:50] because it's all being sold off by, you
[00:31:52] know, whoever can get their hands on it
[00:31:53] in the Soviet Union. I mean, talking
[00:31:55] billions, tens, hundreds of billions of
[00:31:56] dollars of weapons that are hitting the
[00:31:58] the world black market, right? and Anan
[00:32:02] Kosigible at at this really critical
[00:32:04] time in in you know in in the history of
[00:32:07] I guess the the post-war order but also
[00:32:10] just the history of uh the intelligence
[00:32:11] communities in the West and other
[00:32:13] places. He's kind of one of the main
[00:32:14] guys who is uh you know he doesn't just
[00:32:17] like Douglas Lee he doesn't own a a
[00:32:19] weapons manufacturing company he's the
[00:32:21] guy who makes the deals happen. He's a
[00:32:23] fixer. He's a guy who goes uh between
[00:32:25] different parties who maybe don't speak
[00:32:27] the same language or whatever and he
[00:32:29] makes sure the right people get paid. He
[00:32:31] knows who's who has to get paid all
[00:32:32] these things. And so, for example, you
[00:32:35] go back in the 1980s when uh he was
[00:32:37] working on the books for uh companies
[00:32:40] like Loheed Martin, and I'll get the
[00:32:42] exact number wrong right now, but um but
[00:32:45] it's it's like this. I mean there was
[00:32:47] like one year they pay him $180 million
[00:32:50] and this is like the 1980s so it's
[00:32:52] probably half a billion dollars today.
[00:32:53] Another year $210 million they pay him
[00:32:56] in one year you know I mean this is the
[00:32:59] this you know
[00:32:59] >> and he's not manufacturing anything
[00:33:02] >> correct
[00:33:02] >> and he's not actually buying anything.
[00:33:05] He's merely the middleman.
[00:33:06] >> He is the middleman and the deal maker.
[00:33:08] >> That's a lot that's a big vig I think.
[00:33:11] >> Yeah. And so a lot of that money
[00:33:12] obviously is not being kept by him. it's
[00:33:14] being paid out to the people that uh you
[00:33:16] need in order to make make all this
[00:33:18] happen, but a huge amount of it's going
[00:33:20] to him, you know,
[00:33:21] >> and so uh if you are a guy
[00:33:24] >> who uh oh, you know, I let me let me get
[00:33:27] to this part. So after Jeffrey Epstein
[00:33:29] leaves Bear Sterns and around the same
[00:33:32] time that he ends up on that private
[00:33:34] plane with Douglas Lee on his way to the
[00:33:35] Pentagon, he starts his own company. Um,
[00:33:39] and as far as anybody's ever been able
[00:33:42] to find out, as far as I've ever been
[00:33:44] able to find, and I have looked, um, he
[00:33:46] had one client and that client was Anon
[00:33:49] Kosigible. And so, you know, that's just
[00:33:52] another connection where you have
[00:33:53] >> in the world. So, I was alive and
[00:33:56] reading the newspaper. Then, Anan
[00:33:58] Koshogi was one of the most famous
[00:34:00] people in the world. I mean, he was in,
[00:34:02] you know, the New York Times and the
[00:34:03] National Enquirer and the New York Post.
[00:34:05] Like, everyone knew who he was. How does
[00:34:07] this guy with two failed jobs and two
[00:34:11] years at Cooper Union end up starting a
[00:34:14] company where his only client is Adnan
[00:34:16] Kosogi?
[00:34:18] >> No, I'm serious. Like,
[00:34:18] >> well, I think probably the answer is
[00:34:20] that the company was set up so that he
[00:34:22] could do a job for
[00:34:25] a more direct way to put it was how does
[00:34:27] he get connected with Adnan Kosigible
[00:34:28] >> through Douglas Lease? Yeah.
[00:34:30] >> How does he get connected to Douglas
[00:34:31] Lee? Well, I assume through his wealthy
[00:34:33] clientele when he was uh laundering
[00:34:34] money at Bear Sterns, you know, that's
[00:34:36] how he met again a lot of the people um
[00:34:38] that would later become important to
[00:34:39] him. And so um
[00:34:41] >> you got to you got to admire his pluck.
[00:34:43] >> He was he was a hustler, man. You know,
[00:34:45] that's definitely true. It's it's it's
[00:34:47] sort of a um you I think when people get
[00:34:50] up to that level of power uh or just you
[00:34:53] know when they reach those heights even
[00:34:54] if it's a lot of times if it's athletes
[00:34:56] but if it's political figures or
[00:34:58] anything like that you know there's
[00:34:59] there's often a an an obsessive impulse
[00:35:03] that drives them to be very successful
[00:35:06] but often disorders the personality in
[00:35:08] ways that
[00:35:09] >> he was disordered according to but it's
[00:35:11] just interesting it's it's amazing how
[00:35:14] many people he intersected ed with
[00:35:17] >> Yeah. life.
[00:35:18] >> I remember when uh when when Anthony
[00:35:21] Blinkin became Secretary of State and uh
[00:35:25] you know I had been following I I'd been
[00:35:27] following the Epstein story and just all
[00:35:29] the little all the connections with it
[00:35:31] for a long time by then. And so I knew
[00:35:33] that uh Anthony Blankin's stepfather was
[00:35:36] Robert Maxwell's like closest confidant,
[00:35:39] his lawyer, and the last person to speak
[00:35:41] to him before he died.
[00:35:42] >> Before he was murdered.
[00:35:43] >> Yeah, probably. Yeah. And we'll get to
[00:35:45] that too. But it's like
[00:35:49] I I've learned over the years not to not
[00:35:51] to place too many demands on our ruling
[00:35:54] class. You know, I don't want to get all
[00:35:55] crazy. I'm not going to tell you guys to
[00:35:57] stop taking bribes. I'm not going to
[00:35:58] ask. That's all fine. Just keep the
[00:36:00] bribes. Whatever. Can we have one major
[00:36:04] public official that is not a single
[00:36:06] degree separated from Jeffrey Epstein?
[00:36:08] Is that possible? Because apparently
[00:36:09] it's not possible. You got Donald Trump
[00:36:11] talking about the issue the other day on
[00:36:14] camera and the guy standing next to him
[00:36:15] is Howard Lutnik who was Epstein's
[00:36:18] neighbor for years, you know,
[00:36:20] >> in New York. Unfortunately,
[00:36:21] >> it's like we just can we just get like
[00:36:23] one important person who's not one
[00:36:26] degree or less separated from the most
[00:36:29] prolific mass pedophile in US history.
[00:36:31] Is that possible? You know, because
[00:36:33] apparently it's not. You may be
[00:36:34] answering the question, why is the press
[00:36:37] not as interested in the story as they
[00:36:39] would under other circumstances be?
[00:36:42] I have the feeling if you were accused
[00:36:44] of being a mass pedophile, there would
[00:36:45] be more there would be more media
[00:36:46] interest in it.
[00:36:48] >> They would love that. Yeah. When you're
[00:36:50] somebody like me or probably somebody
[00:36:51] like you, it's good that, you know, we
[00:36:53] don't drink and we lead pretty boring
[00:36:54] lives.
[00:36:56] >> Um, so that's okay. So Douglas leaves,
[00:36:58] he winds up on this plane. Then he
[00:37:00] starts to a meeting at the Pentagon
[00:37:02] presumably about arm sales. We're not
[00:37:05] exactly sure how he got into the company
[00:37:07] of Douglas Lee, but we assume it's
[00:37:08] because he was set up by one of his
[00:37:10] clients at Bear Sterns from which he was
[00:37:12] fired
[00:37:14] in a job that he was apparently set up
[00:37:16] by Donald Bar to get. Okay. Then he sets
[00:37:19] up this company to work with or for
[00:37:22] Adant Koshogi. What happens next?
[00:37:25] Well, so there's not a lot there's not a
[00:37:27] whole lot of detail on Epstein
[00:37:29] specifically during this period, but
[00:37:30] there is a lot of detail on guys like
[00:37:32] Anan Koshogi. And so you can kind of
[00:37:35] read between the lines as he progresses
[00:37:36] through. Anan Koshogi was the chief guy
[00:37:38] really that we used in the Middle East
[00:37:41] to uh broker and and fix the the Iran
[00:37:44] side of the Iran Contra deal. And so,
[00:37:46] you know, people have heard the term,
[00:37:48] maybe younger people aren't that
[00:37:49] familiar with what Iran Contra was. I
[00:37:51] mean,
[00:37:53] I mean, I I know probably a lot of
[00:37:55] people watching this are fans of Reagan
[00:37:56] and the Reagan administration and all
[00:37:58] that, and that's fine, but I mean, the
[00:37:59] Iran Contra deal was like, if it wasn't
[00:38:02] high treason, especially on the Iran
[00:38:04] side, I mean, it was an inch away from
[00:38:06] it. You know, I mean, this is a declared
[00:38:08] enemy of the United States, we have a
[00:38:10] law, uh, you know, a past embargo
[00:38:13] forbidding the United States government
[00:38:16] or any company that is in the United
[00:38:18] States from selling weapons to the
[00:38:19] Iranians. And that's what we were doing.
[00:38:21] And so like the brief summary of the
[00:38:23] Iran Contra scandal was we had two
[00:38:26] things that our intelligence agencies
[00:38:28] wanted to do or our security
[00:38:29] establishment let's say wanted to do but
[00:38:31] that they were not allowed to do. One
[00:38:33] was the Iran Iraq wars going on and our
[00:38:36] interest in that war at the time at
[00:38:38] least was just to keep it going as long
[00:38:40] as possible. Something really evil I
[00:38:42] think about funding and and providing
[00:38:44] support to both sides of a war for the
[00:38:46] express purpose of just making it go on
[00:38:48] longer. But um from a cold-hearted
[00:38:51] strategic perspective, you can
[00:38:52] understand you know what people were
[00:38:55] thinking at least. Um but that's what we
[00:38:57] want to do. Saddam Hussein at the time
[00:38:59] was uh you know um was having success on
[00:39:03] the battlefield. We wanted to make sure
[00:39:04] that the Iranians stuck around a little
[00:39:06] bit longer and Saddam didn't get too
[00:39:07] powerful because that's what we were
[00:39:08] worried about at the time, Saddam
[00:39:10] getting too powerful. Um, and so the
[00:39:13] other thing we wanted to do is we wanted
[00:39:14] to provide support for the Nicaraguan
[00:39:16] Contras who were fighting the Sandinista
[00:39:18] government down there. In uh in the
[00:39:22] early 1980s, uh, an amendment to a
[00:39:25] budget was passed in the House called
[00:39:26] the Boland amendment. It was passed 477
[00:39:28] to zero. Um, which, you know, if you're
[00:39:31] a president, we've learned you can kind
[00:39:33] of defy Congress to a degree. If they
[00:39:35] voted 477 to zero, you're probably
[00:39:37] playing with a little bit of fire if you
[00:39:39] want to if you want to do that. And so,
[00:39:41] but we really, really, really wanted to
[00:39:43] support the Contras against the
[00:39:45] communist government in Nicaragua. And
[00:39:47] uh the Bolan amendment, what it said was
[00:39:49] you can't use any of the money in this
[00:39:51] budget, any US government funds. That
[00:39:54] cannot go to the Contras in any way,
[00:39:56] shape, or form. It can't go to them um
[00:39:58] you know, in as weapons. It can't go to
[00:40:01] them as cookies. You can't it just
[00:40:03] cannot go to them. And so you got these
[00:40:05] two things that the security
[00:40:06] establishment really wants to do that
[00:40:08] they're forbidden by law from doing. And
[00:40:10] they bring both of those things together
[00:40:12] and figure out how to make one hand kind
[00:40:14] of wash the other. Um the idea was we're
[00:40:16] going to sell weapons to Iran, which
[00:40:18] we're not allowed to do, but we are
[00:40:19] allowed to sell weapons to Israel and
[00:40:21] Israel has a lot of the same weapon
[00:40:22] systems that we want to send to Iran. So
[00:40:24] we're going to sell them to Israel.
[00:40:26] Israel working through guys like Adnan
[00:40:28] Kosigible are going to get those get
[00:40:30] their weapons to Iran, get these weapons
[00:40:32] to Iran. And we're not selling anything
[00:40:34] to Iran. We're selling to Israel. Iran's
[00:40:36] going to play, uh, they're going to pay
[00:40:38] a premium for these weapons. And that
[00:40:40] premium is off the books and that is
[00:40:42] going to be used to support the Contras.
[00:40:44] And so, um, that was basically the
[00:40:47] scheme. Now you have uh when you're
[00:40:50] doing something like that, I mean, all
[00:40:51] you have to do is look at any any big
[00:40:53] mafia court case or something, you know,
[00:40:55] watch a mob movie where they go to
[00:40:57] court. It's always the money. Like the
[00:40:59] money is how you get caught doing stuff
[00:41:00] like this. People think of money
[00:41:02] laundering as like this boring sideshow
[00:41:05] when it comes to organized crime or
[00:41:07] their cousins in the intelligence
[00:41:08] community. Um it's it's not a sideshow.
[00:41:11] It's right at the center of the thing.
[00:41:12] The whole operation relies on
[00:41:14] moneyaundering because you have to be
[00:41:15] able to hide that. It's the easiest way
[00:41:17] to trace out your networks and what
[00:41:19] they're doing and who's a part of them.
[00:41:21] Who is you you I mean you can figure out
[00:41:23] everything from it. Who's the most
[00:41:24] significant player in this network? Um
[00:41:26] all these things just by looking at
[00:41:27] their money. And so you have to have
[00:41:29] guys like Jeffrey Epstein who spent four
[00:41:32] years at Bear Sterns uh and a few years
[00:41:35] since then like by the time he he starts
[00:41:37] doing work for Kosigible um figuring out
[00:41:40] how to move money offshore, move it
[00:41:42] around through different countries over
[00:41:44] time, changing jurisdictions because you
[00:41:46] got to remember too this was back before
[00:41:48] the internet or anything like that. It
[00:41:49] was not exactly an easy process to just
[00:41:52] hop on your computer and look at where
[00:41:54] these transactions are being passed
[00:41:56] through the global financial system. you
[00:41:58] know, it's it's a different world today
[00:41:59] for that reason, but it was tougher back
[00:42:01] then. You had to send investigators
[00:42:03] probably to that country to go to that
[00:42:05] bank and look at their records kind of
[00:42:06] thing, you know, and so uh but still you
[00:42:09] needed you needed a guy like Epste who
[00:42:11] was skilled at moving money around in
[00:42:12] ways and hiding it in ways that um it it
[00:42:15] it at least would be would be hard to
[00:42:19] trace. like it they would pass at a
[00:42:21] first glance. You know, if you get like
[00:42:23] a really skilled forensic accounting
[00:42:25] team at the Department of Justice who
[00:42:26] really dedicates themselves to it, they
[00:42:28] can figure it out, but it needs to just
[00:42:30] pass at a glance so that some
[00:42:31] congressman's not taking a look at it,
[00:42:33] you know. And so Epstein is one of the
[00:42:36] guys u presumably one of multiple guys
[00:42:40] who was working the financial side. I'm
[00:42:42] I'm not sure I' 100% about that, but I I
[00:42:45] presume they weren't only relying on
[00:42:47] this one guy for uh you know these
[00:42:49] things that were going on. Um who was
[00:42:51] handling the money and making sure that
[00:42:53] >> in Iran Contra?
[00:42:54] >> Well, he was working for Anan Kosigible
[00:42:56] doing that when Anan Kosigible was
[00:42:58] involved with an Iran Contra. I don't
[00:43:00] have any any any I don't have any
[00:43:03] document or anything that says Jeffrey
[00:43:05] Epstein specifically was working with
[00:43:08] the intelligence agency on Iran,
[00:43:10] anything like that. We know he was doing
[00:43:11] work for Kosogi that involved this kind
[00:43:14] of thing because that's what the company
[00:43:16] did.
[00:43:16] >> And he's an American.
[00:43:17] >> Yes.
[00:43:18] >> Right. Um who at least for Donald Bar
[00:43:22] anyway, he has some intel. He's rubbed
[00:43:24] up against people who are familiar with
[00:43:26] the intel world. So
[00:43:27] >> well when you also real quick like if
[00:43:29] you're working for people and with
[00:43:30] people like Douglas Lee, Adnan
[00:43:32] Kosigible, Robert Maxwell, you're
[00:43:34] rubbing against the
[00:43:36] >> right in the middle of it. And so and
[00:43:38] that was the thing they work on. It just
[00:43:39] blows my mind that there's a connection
[00:43:41] between Jeffrey Epstein and Iran Contra
[00:43:43] that just really
[00:43:44] >> Yeah,
[00:43:45] >> I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
[00:43:47] >> I mean, Iron Contra is it is like sort
[00:43:49] of the patient zero for understanding
[00:43:50] the power structure in the modern world
[00:43:52] in a lot of ways. It really really is.
[00:43:54] It's so fascinating.
[00:43:55] >> You remember it well and the f I mean
[00:43:58] very well and knew people who were
[00:44:00] involved in it very well and uh I just I
[00:44:04] thought it was all fake. It was years.
[00:44:08] It was years before I realized that that
[00:44:10] was a meaningful thing. And I think many
[00:44:12] conservatives and Republicans, I'm still
[00:44:14] a conservative Republican.
[00:44:17] However, I try to be more honest and
[00:44:19] thoughtful than I once was. And like
[00:44:20] that is a big that's a big thing that
[00:44:22] they did and um no one was ever really
[00:44:26] punished for it.
[00:44:27] >> No. And the people that were kind of
[00:44:29] celebrities now, you know, doing
[00:44:31] >> some of whom I really like. I mean, I
[00:44:33] just want to say for the record,
[00:44:34] >> I think a lot of those people were
[00:44:35] patriots, man. But you get caught up,
[00:44:36] especially in the cold during the Cold
[00:44:38] War. You know, I tell people sometimes
[00:44:40] that,
[00:44:41] >> look, I don't like a lot of the stuff
[00:44:43] that went on in the Cold War. Um, there
[00:44:44] are a lot of things that the US did that
[00:44:46] I wish weren't in our history books and,
[00:44:48] you know, that that that historians 500
[00:44:51] years from now weren't going to have to
[00:44:52] read about us, you know, in their
[00:44:53] history books.
[00:44:55] >> Um, but for the people at the time, I
[00:44:57] mean,
[00:44:58] >> Oh, I I knew them. I knew them. Yeah.
[00:45:00] No, I agree. And you know, there are a
[00:45:02] couple, but Ali North is the famous one.
[00:45:05] >> And uh you know what a what a nice man,
[00:45:07] what a good man. So I just want to say
[00:45:08] that. But but he's not the Ali North is
[00:45:11] not the one who designed the scheme.
[00:45:12] >> He was a colonel at the time.
[00:45:14] >> Exactly. In the Marine Corps and he was
[00:45:15] he was doing what he was asked to do.
[00:45:17] Whatever. Not to get so far a field. So
[00:45:18] that but that's just amazing that
[00:45:20] Epstein was involved in that. So what
[00:45:23] does he do after that? Well, let me let
[00:45:25] me actually just so let's pause here for
[00:45:27] a minute because this whole period still
[00:45:29] there's a lot to there's a lot to unpack
[00:45:31] here. So, Robert Maxwell was also one of
[00:45:33] the main money conduits for Iran Contra
[00:45:35] as well. Let's talk about Robert
[00:45:37] Maxwell. Fascinating guy. Um really a
[00:45:40] fascinating guy. Another guy like
[00:45:42] Epstein that you look at him and you're
[00:45:43] like, man, he's kind of a an amoral, you
[00:45:46] know, beast in a lot of ways, but at the
[00:45:48] same time, he's a force of nature
[00:45:50] >> and a figure out of history who who
[00:45:52] figured in history. So he was born in uh
[00:45:55] Czechoslovakia and he was I want to say
[00:45:58] he was 18 or 19 years old. He's very
[00:46:00] very young when uh the Germans invaded
[00:46:03] and he managed to escape. He wasn't
[00:46:04] called Robert Maxwell at the time. He
[00:46:06] changed his name eight or nine times uh
[00:46:08] over the course of the years, but he
[00:46:10] managed to escape to France in May 1940,
[00:46:13] which if you know the story of World War
[00:46:15] II is not the best time to escape to
[00:46:17] France. And so he uh hooks up with
[00:46:19] what's left of the Czechoslovak
[00:46:21] resistance there in France and follows
[00:46:23] the British retreat and manages somehow
[00:46:25] to talk his way onto a boat and gets
[00:46:27] over to Britain and uh gets hooked up
[00:46:29] with uh with the Czech government in
[00:46:32] exile there in London. Becomes
[00:46:34] disenchanted with uh the government in
[00:46:36] exile pretty quickly and um starts well
[00:46:40] yeah so we'll get to that next part in a
[00:46:42] minute actually. So then uh
[00:46:45] he's working at first for the Czech
[00:46:46] government in exile, gets a little
[00:46:47] disenchanted with them and so joins the
[00:46:49] British army and he's part of the
[00:46:52] Normandy invasion and he fought he was
[00:46:54] in heavy combat all the way to Berlin.
[00:46:57] Um you know uh he he won the second
[00:47:00] highest medal that the British army
[00:47:02] gives out not just to foreign volunteers
[00:47:04] but to anybody. Um so it's the
[00:47:06] Distinguished Service Cross or the Navy
[00:47:08] Cross here in the US. And you know, you
[00:47:10] don't
[00:47:10] >> MC
[00:47:11] >> you don't get those just for Right.
[00:47:13] Yeah. You don't get those just for uh
[00:47:15] you know, showing up on time every day.
[00:47:16] Like he got it for storming a machine
[00:47:18] gun nest and saving a bunch of people's
[00:47:19] lives, you know. So physically
[00:47:21] courageous guy. Um obviously very
[00:47:24] resourceful, ballsy guy, you know, to
[00:47:26] make it across Europe at such a young
[00:47:27] age and do all these things. Um after
[00:47:29] the war is over and we occupy Germany,
[00:47:32] he goes to work for British
[00:47:33] intelligence. Um first as a translator.
[00:47:36] I don't know how many languages he spoke
[00:47:37] back then, but later on he allegedly was
[00:47:39] fluent in nine. Maybe that's an
[00:47:41] exaggeration, but if he was fluent in
[00:47:43] five and functional in four, that's
[00:47:45] pretty damn impressive, you know. And so
[00:47:48] he was a guy who uh he had connections
[00:47:50] behind the Iron Curtain that was
[00:47:52] emerging. He's from that side of the
[00:47:54] line. Uh he was a soldier who had fought
[00:47:57] valiantly for the British. And so now
[00:47:58] he's working for British intelligence
[00:48:00] and he's actually pretty valuable to
[00:48:01] him. And he gets involved in, you know,
[00:48:04] some dirty work. I mean, he was involved
[00:48:05] in uh interrogating captured SS
[00:48:08] soldiers, for example, which I imagine
[00:48:09] those were not always pleasant
[00:48:11] experiences. Um, actually later on in
[00:48:13] life, this didn't come out till quite a
[00:48:14] bit later when he was an older guy, like
[00:48:16] soon before his death, he was actually
[00:48:18] fingered in investigation for murdering
[00:48:20] a bunch of German unarmed German
[00:48:22] civilians while he was there. It never
[00:48:24] went to the point of uh, you know,
[00:48:26] having to be proven in court or
[00:48:28] anything. So, it was just something that
[00:48:29] was out there. But, he was was named in
[00:48:30] the investigation.
[00:48:32] And so he's working for British
[00:48:33] intelligence uh for a while there in
[00:48:35] Berlin,
[00:48:37] which is a pretty hot assignment
[00:48:38] obviously, especially as the iron
[00:48:39] curtain's starting to come down. And uh
[00:48:42] when the war ends, he goes back to
[00:48:43] Britain. He's changed his name to Robert
[00:48:45] Maxwell by this point, gets British
[00:48:47] British citizenship. And one of the
[00:48:49] first things we uh have him doing in the
[00:48:51] late 1940s after the war when he gets
[00:48:53] back to Britain is you have this guy who
[00:48:56] again is from the other side of the
[00:48:57] line. He's got uh connections with
[00:48:59] people across Europe. He's involved with
[00:49:01] British intelligence. Um, and he hooks
[00:49:05] up with uh some like the British Zionist
[00:49:08] movement and in contravention of of
[00:49:11] British law at the time um is helping to
[00:49:14] smuggle weapons. Specifically, aircraft
[00:49:15] parts were kind of his main bag through
[00:49:17] Czechoslovakia down to the Zionist
[00:49:19] movement in Israel to fight the Arabs.
[00:49:21] And um again, this is still he's I think
[00:49:23] he's probably 25 or something like that
[00:49:25] at this point. Maybe 27, 28. young guy
[00:49:28] >> and not just the Arabs, the British
[00:49:29] also.
[00:49:30] >> Well, right.
[00:49:31] >> They're fighting the British and he's
[00:49:32] now a British citizen. Just just saying.
[00:49:34] >> There is that. Yeah. You know, that that
[00:49:36] whole thing is a little bit of a
[00:49:37] tangent, but I mean, all that stuff is
[00:49:38] so interesting because when you think
[00:49:40] about something like that, right? Like
[00:49:42] if you have a situation like the
[00:49:44] Zionists in Palestine in the late 1940s
[00:49:46] who were facing down the possibility of
[00:49:48] war with several countries around them
[00:49:50] and you're just a movement that kind of
[00:49:52] just drove the British out of the
[00:49:53] country and now you got to figure out
[00:49:54] how to hold on to it. and the British
[00:49:57] who are the main people who have uh any
[00:49:59] foreign presence, you know, European
[00:50:01] foreign presence in the region, have a
[00:50:02] weapons embargo against you. You need to
[00:50:04] get weapons and supplies. How you gonna
[00:50:05] do it? Well, you need guys like Robert
[00:50:07] Maxwell, you know, because not everybody
[00:50:09] knows how to do it. If they called me on
[00:50:10] the phone and said, "Hey, Daryl, we need
[00:50:12] to get, you know, we need you to get us
[00:50:14] uh 800 RPGs at this port and blah blah
[00:50:17] blah." I'd be like, "Uh, okay. So, call
[00:50:20] Robert Maxwell. Don't look at me, you
[00:50:21] know, and um cuz you know, who knows?"
[00:50:24] And uh but he knew and that was
[00:50:26] something he was able to do. Um Lyndon
[00:50:30] Johnson did that actually. There was a
[00:50:31] there was a really interesting um
[00:50:33] several articles written about it, but
[00:50:34] one in the Times of Israel where they uh
[00:50:36] they this is auditory article, you know,
[00:50:39] they're they're writing it in a way that
[00:50:41] um is very grateful to Lyndon Johnson,
[00:50:43] but this is back when he was still in
[00:50:44] the US Congress back in the 30s and 40s.
[00:50:46] um he was working with a Zionist friend
[00:50:48] of his there in in Texas to illegally in
[00:50:52] controvention of American law um as a US
[00:50:54] congressman to ship weapons and other
[00:50:56] supplies to the Zionists in Palestine in
[00:50:59] uh in in crates mark Texas grapefruit.
[00:51:01] And the main guy who did the research on
[00:51:03] this is a is a a Jewish uh scholar named
[00:51:06] Louis Galile. And you can't find the
[00:51:09] paper online. It's uh only in the
[00:51:10] reading room at the Holocaust Museum in
[00:51:13] Washington DC. And um fortunately before
[00:51:15] I came on your show last time I visited
[00:51:17] the place and went and read it and uh
[00:51:20] you know they might have somebody tackle
[00:51:22] me at the door if I tried to go there
[00:51:23] and do it now. But um but I read it.
[00:51:26] It's fascinating because he really lays
[00:51:27] out in detail that you really can't deny
[00:51:29] that Lyndon Johnson was was involved
[00:51:31] with this. And so then you
[00:51:32] >> and there's some evidence that Jack Ruby
[00:51:35] too was involved in that also which I
[00:51:37] think
[00:51:37] >> well it's so that that's where I was
[00:51:39] going to go next is you then you ask
[00:51:40] well how Lyndon Johnson doesn't know how
[00:51:43] to smuggle the weapons to Palestine who
[00:51:45] knows how to do that kind of thing
[00:51:47] >> organized crime knows how to do that
[00:51:48] kind of thing and so you know when you
[00:51:50] get into any of these kind of things
[00:51:51] this is why I say you know the
[00:51:53] intelligence community and their cousins
[00:51:54] in the organized crime world they're
[00:51:56] they've always been directly next to
[00:51:58] each other they intersect crossover has
[00:52:01] to
[00:52:02] And um and so Maxwell does this and uh
[00:52:06] as that you know as Israel's founded and
[00:52:08] he kind of starts to just move on as a
[00:52:09] British citizen starts to make his way
[00:52:11] in the world. He starts out he's he he
[00:52:14] creates a small publishing company that
[00:52:16] specializes basically he basically had a
[00:52:18] monopoly in um getting scientific papers
[00:52:21] from behind the iron curtain and
[00:52:24] translating and editing the journals
[00:52:25] that they would have and the papers they
[00:52:27] would have and distributing them in the
[00:52:28] west. And so he starts making a lot of
[00:52:30] money doing that. He starts expanding
[00:52:32] out into what became the Maxwell Empire
[00:52:34] where he owned the New York Daily News,
[00:52:36] the Daily Mirror. I mean it was a he was
[00:52:38] the Rupert Murdoch at the time, right?
[00:52:40] Just a tabloid king and he became a
[00:52:42] billionaire back when billion really
[00:52:43] really meant something, you know. Um he
[00:52:46] actually became a member of parliament
[00:52:47] in the 1960s
[00:52:49] and so uh it was there in the 1960s.
[00:52:51] >> So just 20 years after he got there.
[00:52:53] >> Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That's
[00:52:56] extraordinary. Amazing honestly. Um, and
[00:52:58] it was there in the 1960s that uh the uh
[00:53:03] the MSAD representative in Great
[00:53:06] Britain, like the the assigned guy at
[00:53:08] the time, was Yetichak Shamir, who um
[00:53:11] later became the prime minister of
[00:53:12] Israel in the 1980s, but started his
[00:53:15] career as uh the leader of the Stern
[00:53:17] Gang, a very infamous terrorist group
[00:53:19] that killed a lot of people um back in
[00:53:23] the in the 1940s. um carried out the
[00:53:26] King David Hotel bombing along with the
[00:53:28] Urgun. I mean, killed 91 people,
[00:53:29] including 15 Jews, which, you know, if
[00:53:32] uh if I was Yeetszak, I'd probably be
[00:53:34] pretty upset about that part at least.
[00:53:36] But um killed many people, killed uh
[00:53:38] Lord Moine, a British diplomat in uh in
[00:53:41] Egypt in 1946. Sent mail bombs to uh
[00:53:46] several British government officials in
[00:53:47] Whiteall in in London there. and
[00:53:49] actually we have two accounts on this
[00:53:51] that may be drawing from the same source
[00:53:53] and so I don't want to say it with the
[00:53:54] same uh level of certainty but sent mail
[00:53:56] bombs to Harry Truman's White House
[00:53:58] addressed to him and we got that from a
[00:54:00] book that was written by u a guy a
[00:54:03] fellow who who ran the white house mail
[00:54:05] room over the course of like six
[00:54:06] presidents and he wrote a memoir about
[00:54:08] just all the different things that he
[00:54:09] had seen and everything and one of the
[00:54:11] things he mentioned is these mail bombs
[00:54:13] coming from the Zionist in Palestine
[00:54:14] addressed to Harry Truman that uh that
[00:54:17] story was repeated in Harry Truman's
[00:54:19] daughter's memoir. I don't know if
[00:54:20] that's coming from if that's independent
[00:54:22] or if she's just getting that from the
[00:54:24] other guy's book. So I, you know, I
[00:54:25] don't know, but that's two sources that
[00:54:27] say that. So that's what Yeetsak Shamir
[00:54:29] was up to. Um, and he goes to Robert
[00:54:32] Maxwell
[00:54:34] and he talks to him about his
[00:54:36] obligations as a Jewish billionaire and
[00:54:38] a and a important guy with intelligence
[00:54:40] community connections in foreign
[00:54:42] countries. the the obligations that he
[00:54:44] has to the Jewish state of Israel. And
[00:54:48] you know that can be a ve look it can be
[00:54:50] that can be very very compelling uh to
[00:54:53] especially to people who are who are
[00:54:54] kind of mercenary types like Maxwell and
[00:54:57] kind of always had been have been from a
[00:54:59] very young age you know feeling like
[00:55:01] they're living in a foreign country
[00:55:02] because they are and then you know you
[00:55:05] start to get this appeal of like
[00:55:06] obligation to to something really
[00:55:08] meaningful. You see this a lot and for
[00:55:10] example when I work for the Department
[00:55:12] of Defense um you obviously everybody's
[00:55:14] watching this knows that I have a little
[00:55:16] bit of a troll in me but usually my
[00:55:17] trolling has a purpose and in this case
[00:55:19] it did. We were doing a uh a standown
[00:55:21] like a big training thing in an
[00:55:23] auditorium um on what to look for
[00:55:26] regarding uh insider threats. Right? So
[00:55:28] this is like DoD employees who might
[00:55:31] possibly be looking to spy or or pull
[00:55:33] classified information out for nefarious
[00:55:35] purposes or something. and they're going
[00:55:36] through as part of the training all of
[00:55:39] these actual cases that happened over
[00:55:41] the years.
[00:55:43] And out of the nine or 10 that they
[00:55:44] showed us, you know, there's one or two
[00:55:46] where the guy just had a gambling
[00:55:48] addiction and he needed money and he
[00:55:50] just didn't care and he was going to do
[00:55:51] it. But literally like the other eight
[00:55:53] or nine, 90% of all the ones they showed
[00:55:55] us were Chinese guys, Chinese Americans
[00:55:59] spying for China, Russian-Americans
[00:56:00] spying for Russia, is Jewish Americans
[00:56:03] spying for Israel. And all of them
[00:56:06] pretty much this was just a pattern and
[00:56:07] nobody was talking about it. The
[00:56:08] trainers weren't talking about they were
[00:56:10] just pretending like it didn't exist.
[00:56:11] And so leave it to me. I raised my hand
[00:56:12] at the end when they took questions and
[00:56:15] I brought that fact up. I was like,
[00:56:16] "What are we supposed to exactly do with
[00:56:18] that information?" And to the guy's
[00:56:20] credit, he was honest. He didn't try to
[00:56:21] blow smoke up me or anything. He just
[00:56:23] said, "Uh, you're not to look at that at
[00:56:25] all. Like, that's not something we
[00:56:26] consider." And I said, "Okay." Um,
[00:56:30] everybody kind of, you know, looked
[00:56:31] around like, "All right, well, that's
[00:56:32] just uh how it is." Um, but, you know,
[00:56:36] the reason that that pattern existed in
[00:56:38] the first place is that just it can be
[00:56:40] very powerful. Not everybody's going to
[00:56:41] respond to it. Most people of any
[00:56:43] ethnicity are loyal to the country they
[00:56:44] live in, but you can find people with
[00:56:47] buttons to push, you know, and um and
[00:56:49] Robert Maxwell was one of those people.
[00:56:50] And so Yitzak Shamir recruited him and
[00:56:52] he became from that point on a very
[00:56:55] committed Zionist and asset to Israeli
[00:56:57] intelligence. Now again with Maxwell,
[00:57:01] just like we talk about a lot of these
[00:57:02] other people, when I say he was an asset
[00:57:04] of Israeli intelligence, that doesn't
[00:57:06] mean he was on the payroll of MSAD. you
[00:57:08] know, he didn't have a rank in the
[00:57:09] Israeli intelligence uh community or
[00:57:12] something. He was a freelancer. He was a
[00:57:14] guy who was almost a and he looked at
[00:57:17] himself this way. He was almost like a
[00:57:19] like a sovereign himself, you know. He
[00:57:21] was uh like not really like kind of a
[00:57:24] member of any country. Exactly. He was
[00:57:26] like this free floating sovereign entity
[00:57:28] that would work between the nation
[00:57:30] states in the world and and that's very
[00:57:32] often what he did. So, for example, you
[00:57:34] know, um and this this actually is a is
[00:57:37] an actual example when um the Israeli
[00:57:40] government wanted to meet with the uh
[00:57:42] the heads of the KGB in the 1980s.
[00:57:46] Um you can't exactly I mean without
[00:57:49] raising a ruckus or having it be a
[00:57:50] thing, you can't put the head of the
[00:57:51] MSAD on a plane and send him to Moscow
[00:57:53] to go meet with the head of the KGB. And
[00:57:55] so they would talk to Robert Maxwell.
[00:57:57] Robert Maxwell will go talk to them and
[00:57:59] he'd be, you know, the kind of
[00:58:00] go-between and and the and the dealmaker
[00:58:02] and fixer.
[00:58:03] >> Very common,
[00:58:04] >> right? And and and you know, I imagine
[00:58:06] you probably need those people if you're
[00:58:07] going to do these kind of things. And so
[00:58:09] >> um and so that's the kind of thing that
[00:58:10] he would do. you know, he um sometime,
[00:58:14] you know, so there there are, I would
[00:58:16] say, allegations that are pretty well
[00:58:18] substantiated at this point that um one
[00:58:22] of the things he would do was act as
[00:58:24] essentially like a a slush fund for
[00:58:26] Israeli intelligence uh black ops. And
[00:58:30] the way it would work is, you know, he
[00:58:33] would reach into his company's pension
[00:58:34] funds, for example, pull some money out
[00:58:37] that they could then go use to pull off
[00:58:39] an operation. And then, you know, 6
[00:58:41] months here, a year there down the line,
[00:58:43] they figure out ways to get the money
[00:58:45] back to him and they kind of replenish
[00:58:47] it. A former Israeli intelligence
[00:58:49] officer named Ari Manashe, he's a very
[00:58:52] controversial but interesting figure.
[00:58:53] Um,
[00:58:55] we'll talk about him more in a little
[00:58:56] bit because he comes a lot into the
[00:58:57] Epstein story, too. Um he and Victor
[00:59:00] Ostrovski, who's another uh MSAD uh
[00:59:03] former MSAD official who wrote who wrote
[00:59:05] a book about his experiences after he
[00:59:07] got kind of jammed up by them and blamed
[00:59:09] for some things. Um they both say that
[00:59:12] Maxwell, what happened? You talk about
[00:59:14] him being murdered is that, you know,
[00:59:16] once you start reaching into your
[00:59:18] company's pension fund to help out
[00:59:19] Israeli intelligence, like, well, I can
[00:59:22] do it for this personal reason, too. You
[00:59:24] know, I'll pay it back. I'll always pay
[00:59:25] it back, of course. And he starts doing
[00:59:28] that and he gets himself into a lot of
[00:59:29] trouble and by the end of his life um he
[00:59:32] was going to be I mean his empire was
[00:59:34] going to be brought down. He was going
[00:59:35] to be bankrupt and probably going to
[00:59:36] prison. I mean he had robbed his
[00:59:39] company's pension fund blind for years
[00:59:41] at this point. It was all getting to the
[00:59:43] point where it was just no longer
[00:59:44] solvent. It couldn't be hidden anymore.
[00:59:46] And what Benashe says is that he went to
[00:59:49] his friends in the MSAD and he told
[00:59:51] them, "Look, I've done all this for you
[00:59:53] over the years. I have done so much for
[00:59:55] you. you are going to get me out of this
[00:59:56] somehow. One way or another, whether you
[00:59:58] give me the money, whether you deal with
[01:00:00] the issue in Britain, you're going to
[01:00:01] get me out of this. And he got a little
[01:00:03] too aggressive about it, Ben says. And
[01:00:05] uh you know, shortly after that, they
[01:00:07] found him floating off of his yacht near
[01:00:09] the Canary Islands. Um and there was a
[01:00:13] satellite uh photo, I don't know if it
[01:00:15] was ever introduced in court, but I I
[01:00:17] believe this is true, a satellite photo
[01:00:19] taken um that showed a boat with, you
[01:00:23] know,
[01:00:25] The the belief is that the boat was
[01:00:26] boarded by
[01:00:28] some group that threw him off. He had he
[01:00:31] had injuries.
[01:00:32] >> Three different doctors couldn't agree
[01:00:33] on the cause of death.
[01:00:34] >> It was not a drowning and he had
[01:00:36] injuries consistent to a shoulder
[01:00:38] consistent with a struggle.
[01:00:39] >> He was a big guy. He would have fought.
[01:00:41] >> Yeah. Um but see there there's actually
[01:00:43] so another thing happened right before
[01:00:44] that too is uh for years people had
[01:00:47] speculated and um and and presented you
[01:00:50] know little evidence here and there that
[01:00:52] he was associated with Israeli
[01:00:53] intelligence but in uh just right before
[01:00:56] he died I think it was in ' 88 um right
[01:00:59] before he died uh Seymour Hirsch went on
[01:01:01] the record with three I think four
[01:01:03] independent uh sources that all fingered
[01:01:07] Maxwell and his number one in his media
[01:01:10] empire as agents of Israeli
[01:01:12] intelligence, as active agents of
[01:01:14] Israeli intelligence. And two weeks
[01:01:15] later when he was found dead and it then
[01:01:18] it was after that that a lot of the
[01:01:19] financial stuff, the problems that he
[01:01:20] had kind of came out
[01:01:21] >> and there was a five-year lawsuit, five
[01:01:23] five-year case against his two sons.
[01:01:25] >> Yeah. And they actually brought a
[01:01:26] lawsuit against Seymour Hurst for
[01:01:28] defamation, right?
[01:01:29] >> And lost. And not only did they lose,
[01:01:31] they had to pay all of Hurst's legal
[01:01:32] fees and pay him out for suing him. So,
[01:01:36] um, you know, the the idea of Robert
[01:01:38] Maxwell being, um, an Israeli
[01:01:40] intelligence agent is as well
[01:01:42] substantiated as anything gets in that
[01:01:44] world. Right.
[01:01:45] >> Right. Yeah. I think he received a state
[01:01:46] funeral in Israel. He certainly buried
[01:01:47] there.
[01:01:47] >> Well, that's No, actually, this is the
[01:01:49] fun part, too. So, you have this British
[01:01:50] citizen um who has no connection to
[01:01:52] Israeli intelligence at all. No,
[01:01:54] nothing. He just is a British guy who's
[01:01:56] never lived in Israel. Um, he gets a
[01:01:58] state funeral that's attended by every
[01:02:00] living Israeli prime minister,
[01:02:02] intelligence agency head, and the
[01:02:03] president. uh the president and the
[01:02:05] prime minister Yeetszak Shamir actually
[01:02:08] um gave his eulogies and Yeetszak Shamir
[01:02:10] said that this man has done more for the
[01:02:12] state of Israel than can now be told and
[01:02:14] he was given uh a burial plot on the
[01:02:17] Mount of Olives facing the Western Wall
[01:02:19] which is reserved for it's the highest
[01:02:22] honor you know that you can that you can
[01:02:23] bestow uh when it comes to that kind of
[01:02:26] thing and so clearly this was a guy who
[01:02:28] was very important to a lot of people uh
[01:02:30] over there and he was it was because he
[01:02:32] was a a very important intelligence So,
[01:02:34] what was his Yeah, I don't think that's
[01:02:36] kind It's funny. As time goes by, people
[01:02:38] start claiming that certain
[01:02:40] substantiated
[01:02:41] facts are not facts and no one kind of
[01:02:45] remembers that. No, actually, that's
[01:02:47] been proven. Um, anyway, what was his
[01:02:50] connection to Jeffrey Epste? How does
[01:02:52] Jeffrey Epstein wind up in an orbit of a
[01:02:53] guy like that?
[01:02:54] >> Douglas Lee introduced him. And so uh
[01:02:57] and and according to multiple sources um
[01:03:00] from Israeli and uh US intelligence
[01:03:02] circles that have gone on the record to
[01:03:05] uh to journalists like Vicky Ward, both
[01:03:08] of them were involved in the weapons
[01:03:10] deals and things that we're talking
[01:03:11] about in the 1980s. You know, Maxwell
[01:03:13] would be the guy who like his pension
[01:03:16] fund would be used as a slush fund, for
[01:03:17] example, to conduit to to move money
[01:03:19] through. Epstein would be a guy who made
[01:03:21] sure that it moved around in ways that
[01:03:24] couldn't easily be traced. And so they
[01:03:26] work together with uh with intelligence
[01:03:28] on on these operations. And so uh Robert
[01:03:32] is the one who introduced him to his
[01:03:33] daughter. That's uh you know not
[01:03:36] something a father really wants to do.
[01:03:38] Introduce your daughter to a guy like
[01:03:39] Jeffrey Epstein. But maybe she had
[01:03:41] problems of her own. I don't know. He
[01:03:43] introduces her. And so just add that to
[01:03:45] add another zero to the odds of all of
[01:03:47] these connections kind of piling up,
[01:03:49] right? Known 100% locked in Israeli
[01:03:52] intelligent agent for decades. Robert
[01:03:55] Maxwell, his daughter just happens to
[01:03:57] be, you know, Jeffrey Epste's partner in
[01:04:00] crime. Um, and and you know, you have
[01:04:02] you seen that famous picture of Prince
[01:04:05] Andrew with Virginia Roberts? She's a
[01:04:07] teenager stand there with her. That's in
[01:04:09] Robert Maxwell's house in England that
[01:04:10] that that picture was taken. So,
[01:04:13] >> um, you know, they were they were close
[01:04:16] obviously, you know. And um here's the
[01:04:18] funny thing actually when Vicky Ward
[01:04:20] interviewed um when he interview when
[01:04:23] she interviewed Jeffrey Epste in 2002.
[01:04:26] We'll get to her whole interview in 2002
[01:04:28] which is really interesting because it
[01:04:29] was in 2002. Nobody knew who Jeffrey
[01:04:31] Epste was. None of these conspiracy
[01:04:33] theories were out there. Anything like
[01:04:35] that. And she's got all kinds of stuff
[01:04:37] we'll talk about here in a second. But
[01:04:38] he said uh Robert He just total
[01:04:41] ignorance. Robert Maxwell doesn't ring a
[01:04:44] bell. Don't know him at all. and they
[01:04:46] were incredibly close. She didn't really
[01:04:48] it wasn't the point of her story, so she
[01:04:50] didn't really pursue it too much. He
[01:04:51] also uh um was asked by her about his
[01:04:55] relationship to Douglas Lee, and he
[01:04:57] claimed not to know Douglas Lee. When
[01:04:59] Douglas Lee's own son, Julian, he said
[01:05:02] that that his father was essentially for
[01:05:05] many years a he used the word a mentor
[01:05:07] to Jeffrey Epstein of sorts. And so um
[01:05:10] and he expressed disbelief that Epste
[01:05:12] would have claimed not to know him. I
[01:05:13] mean, so you know, you have uh these
[01:05:15] connections that Epstein denies, which
[01:05:17] again, if they were innocent
[01:05:18] connections, you know, um that he he
[01:05:21] probably wouldn't have a reason to do
[01:05:22] that. All of these intelligence
[01:05:24] connections that with people who were,
[01:05:27] you know, again, like you take the
[01:05:28] Donald Bar one for example, okay, he
[01:05:30] worked for the OSS in World War II.
[01:05:32] Great. I don't know. Maybe he, you know,
[01:05:34] maybe it's a once uh intelligence guy,
[01:05:36] always an intelligence guy, and he was
[01:05:38] still, but I don't know. All I have is
[01:05:39] that he worked for the OSS. And so maybe
[01:05:41] that's all in the past, has nothing to
[01:05:43] do with it, but all these other guys,
[01:05:45] these are people who were not only
[01:05:47] active but absolutely central to the
[01:05:51] most high-profile operations that were
[01:05:53] going on in the 1980s. And Jeffrey
[01:05:55] Epstein is right there in the middle of
[01:05:57] all of them. And they all seem to think
[01:05:58] that he's pretty damn important. You
[01:06:01] know, um, Robert Maxwell pimps out his
[01:06:04] daughter to him. uh you know I don't
[01:06:07] maybe want to put it too harshly but
[01:06:08] like when you give your daughter to a
[01:06:10] guy like Epstein what do you say about
[01:06:11] it um you know guys like Hashigi and
[01:06:14] Douglas Lease who was his mentor I mean
[01:06:15] these are guys who are right in the
[01:06:17] middle of the most high-profile
[01:06:19] operations going on at the time so how
[01:06:21] does Epstein does he get rich from doing
[01:06:23] this stuff because at the center of the
[01:06:25] story or the enduring mystery from my
[01:06:27] perspective there are a couple but one
[01:06:28] is where did all the money come from how
[01:06:30] did he get rich
[01:06:31] >> so one of the people that Vicky Ward
[01:06:32] interviewed in 2002 none of which made
[01:06:35] it into her story.
[01:06:35] >> Vicky Ward was a Vanity Fair reporter
[01:06:37] >> at the time. She was writing for Vanity
[01:06:39] Fair. Yeah. She she wrote for Rolling
[01:06:40] Stone later. And the whole story of the
[01:06:43] publication of her story, Vanity Fair is
[01:06:45] a lot of fun. So, we'll talk about that.
[01:06:47] Um, one of the one of the people that
[01:06:49] she interviewed was a guy that Jeffrey
[01:06:51] Epstein had helped send to jail, guy
[01:06:53] named Steven Hoffenberg, who ran a
[01:06:55] company called Towers Financial that was
[01:06:57] engaged in uh a Ponzi scheme. Um, they I
[01:07:01] think you know it was a $450 million
[01:07:03] Ponzi scheme. robbed a lot of people of
[01:07:05] a lot of money. Um Hoffenberg doesn't
[01:07:07] deny it. He took responsibility for it
[01:07:09] at the time. You know, plead guilty, did
[01:07:11] his time, and he's open about all of it
[01:07:14] now. Calls himself greedy and just all
[01:07:16] these things. Um well, he gets a call
[01:07:19] from Douglas Lee and says, "Hey, I got a
[01:07:20] guy who can help you out because he knew
[01:07:22] Lee and he puts him in touch with
[01:07:24] Jeffrey Epstein." And Epstein, he said,
[01:07:27] is just the kind of guy that a business
[01:07:28] like a quote unquote business like the
[01:07:30] one I'm running this Ponzi scheme is
[01:07:32] looking for. It's a guy who's very
[01:07:33] intelligent who knows a lot about the
[01:07:36] offshore accounting and things that we
[01:07:37] need to know about and he has no moral
[01:07:40] compass whatsoever. Hoffenberg said and
[01:07:42] this is what he told uh Ward at the
[01:07:44] time. And so one of some of the other
[01:07:46] things that he said is he said that uh
[01:07:48] what Epstein would do and he did this to
[01:07:50] Hoffenberg himself eventually
[01:07:53] um is the people that they would be
[01:07:56] moving money around for they would take
[01:07:58] some of that for themselves. And Epstein
[01:08:00] had a scheme that he called playing the
[01:08:02] box, which I don't know where the name
[01:08:05] exactly comes from, but what it entailed
[01:08:07] is stealing money from people and making
[01:08:08] sure that you have compromising
[01:08:10] information on them so that even if they
[01:08:11] catch you doing it, they're going to be
[01:08:13] too embarrassed or too afraid to
[01:08:14] actually come out and go after you. And
[01:08:17] so given what we know about Epstein's
[01:08:20] proclivities and his later activities,
[01:08:22] you can probably guess what some of that
[01:08:24] those activities were, right? And um
[01:08:27] this is what Hoffenberg said he would
[01:08:29] do. He he said that Jeffrey Epstein uh
[01:08:32] you know well so he confirms the uh the
[01:08:34] the the story of Epstein being attached
[01:08:37] to Douglas Lee first of all because he
[01:08:39] knew Lee and that's how they met. Um and
[01:08:41] he says that Epstein used to talk quite
[01:08:42] openly about um his connections and
[01:08:46] dealings with the intelligence community
[01:08:48] not just in the US but in Israel as
[01:08:50] well. And again none of this made it
[01:08:51] into the story because this is 2002.
[01:08:53] Vicky Ward's just like Douglas who what
[01:08:56] doesn't really she didn't know who these
[01:08:58] people were and she was trying to invest
[01:09:00] I mean she had on there the record
[01:09:01] witnesses accusing Jeffrey Epstein of
[01:09:04] sexual assault like you know underage
[01:09:06] girls that's what she was interested in
[01:09:07] so all this other stuff she doesn't even
[01:09:09] know what he's talking about at the time
[01:09:10] but she kept all her notes and
[01:09:12] everything and once it kind of came out
[01:09:13] later she brought all that out into the
[01:09:15] public um so uh yeah the story of here's
[01:09:19] here's a fun one so and Vicky Ward tells
[01:09:22] this story But there I mean there was
[01:09:25] even an NPR report on a radio report
[01:09:27] about this uh several years ago when the
[01:09:28] Epstein thing was coming out um where
[01:09:31] they have people who were working at
[01:09:32] Vanity Fair, one of the senior editors
[01:09:34] in an audio interview talk telling the
[01:09:36] story. Um she's working she's running
[01:09:39] down this story and she's got three on
[01:09:40] there witnesses, two sisters but then
[01:09:43] one totally independent telling the same
[01:09:44] story about Jeffrey Epstein. He sexually
[01:09:46] assaulted them and um she's writing up
[01:09:49] this story but it started out as like a
[01:09:50] profile piece like that's all. And then
[01:09:52] this stuff came out through the course
[01:09:54] of her reporting. And uh she uh is
[01:09:59] pursuing this story and all of a sudden
[01:10:01] um one day she uh she she gets her
[01:10:04] interview with Jeffrey Epstein and she
[01:10:06] asks him about the girls and he gets
[01:10:08] really really upset. Threatens her
[01:10:10] personally, threatens her like says,
[01:10:12] "I'm not coming after the magazine if
[01:10:13] you print this. I'm coming after you
[01:10:15] because my relationship here is with
[01:10:16] you. Don't do this to yourself. Don't do
[01:10:19] this to your family. It's not worth it."
[01:10:21] >> Whoa. And so she says, "Well, you know,
[01:10:23] does what a reporter is supposed to do,
[01:10:25] I suppose. You know, you're not going to
[01:10:26] push me around like that and you don't
[01:10:28] know who this guy is." And so he's just
[01:10:30] some rich guy who's trying to threaten
[01:10:31] you or something. And so, um, she writes
[01:10:33] up the story and it goes through legal
[01:10:36] and legal looks at it. You got three on
[01:10:37] there witnesses, uh, corroborating each
[01:10:40] other's stories. uh gets through legal
[01:10:42] and then right before it goes to press,
[01:10:46] Graden Carter, who was running Vanity
[01:10:48] Fair at the time, he puts the kaibos on
[01:10:50] that part of the story. He just takes it
[01:10:52] out without even telling Vicky Ward. It
[01:10:53] has all of that stuff removed and it's
[01:10:55] just a it's just a profile piece about
[01:10:57] Jeffrey Epste, this international
[01:10:58] >> minus the sexual assault allegations.
[01:11:00] >> Correct. And so, uh, the stories though
[01:11:02] where it gets really interesting, and
[01:11:04] again, this is told by not just Ward,
[01:11:06] but by a bunch of people who worked
[01:11:08] there at the time, was the talk of the
[01:11:09] office at the time, they said. Um,
[01:11:12] he, uh, he comes into his office one
[01:11:15] day. He's the first person in the
[01:11:16] office. Graden Carter's office within
[01:11:18] the larger complex is locked, but
[01:11:21] Jeffrey Epstein's already in there. He's
[01:11:22] the first person in, and he's waiting
[01:11:25] for him, and he berates him and
[01:11:27] threatens him and tells him, you know,
[01:11:28] he better not print this. And a short
[01:11:31] time later, uh,
[01:11:34] he, uh, Graden Carter leaves his house
[01:11:36] in New York City and he finds a bullet
[01:11:40] on his stoop. And then a little while
[01:11:42] later at his country house upstate, he
[01:11:45] finds a severed cat's head on the porch
[01:11:47] there. And according to the senior
[01:11:50] editor and a lot of people at Vanity
[01:11:51] Fair, Graden Carter and everybody in the
[01:11:54] office knew exactly what this was. This
[01:11:56] was these were threats from Jeffrey
[01:11:57] Epstein. And Graden Carter acts the
[01:11:59] story because of that. And so, you know,
[01:12:02] you have to think like Vanity Fair,
[01:12:05] they've probably been threatened legally
[01:12:07] by people before who they're writing,
[01:12:09] you know, exposees on every month.
[01:12:11] >> Yeah. And so to intimidate somebody like
[01:12:14] that and a magazine like that into doing
[01:12:16] that with such direct and overt threats,
[01:12:19] you know, you look at you're like, man,
[01:12:20] what kind of confidence and hubris did
[01:12:22] this guy have that he felt confident
[01:12:24] doing? You know, the biggest magazine
[01:12:26] publisher in the country at the time,
[01:12:28] most important, published the New
[01:12:30] Yorker, like big big deal place.
[01:12:31] >> But it worked and it got axed and
[01:12:33] probably because of that a lot more
[01:12:35] girls got sexually assaulted over the
[01:12:36] next several years, you know. So, how
[01:12:38] did So, by the time Vicky Ward is
[01:12:41] interviewing Epstein in 2002,
[01:12:44] you know, Vanity Fair at the time was
[01:12:46] like basically the in-house publication
[01:12:48] for the ruling class, like you know, the
[01:12:50] emerging ruling class. Anyway,
[01:12:53] he's rich guy.
[01:12:56] How did How did he get rich? I'm
[01:12:58] confused.
[01:12:59] >> Yeah. I mean, so to go back to
[01:13:01] Hoffenberg and Towers Financial, for
[01:13:03] example, um Hoffenberg was running this
[01:13:05] Ponzi scheme with uh with Epstein, uh
[01:13:08] Vicky Ward has a source in the Justice
[01:13:11] Department who worked the case at the
[01:13:12] time who told her about Epstein
[01:13:15] cooperating with the government against
[01:13:16] Hoffenberg and said that if it had gone
[01:13:19] to trial for Epstein, it would have gone
[01:13:20] worse for him than it did for
[01:13:21] Hoffenberg. Like he had more
[01:13:23] fingerprints and was deep more deeply
[01:13:24] involved with the scheme than even
[01:13:26] Hoffenberg was. But what he had done was
[01:13:28] he had taken a hund00 million dollars
[01:13:30] from Hoffenberg from the company and
[01:13:32] hidden it offshore and then went to the
[01:13:35] authorities and cooperated with them to
[01:13:36] get Hoffenberg thrown in jail. And since
[01:13:38] Hoffenberg had plead guilty, there was
[01:13:40] no discovery or anything like that. And
[01:13:42] he just went away for 18 years. And
[01:13:43] Jeffrey Epstein
[01:13:44] >> he did 18 years.
[01:13:46] >> 18 years. Yeah. Yeah. Jeffrey Epstein
[01:13:48] for uh with with 40 on there witnesses
[01:13:51] accusing him of sexual assault in 2008.
[01:13:54] Got 13 months
[01:13:56] >> and not even full-time detention.
[01:13:58] >> Yeah. Well, um yeah, let's talk about
[01:14:00] that. I mean, this So,
[01:14:01] >> can we just I just want to linger for a
[01:14:03] second on the money.
[01:14:04] >> Yeah.
[01:14:04] >> So, it's been reported repeatedly that
[01:14:06] there's a guy called Les Lesley Les
[01:14:08] Wexner,
[01:14:09] biggest owner of the biggest house in
[01:14:11] Ohio.
[01:14:12] Who is Wexner and what is his
[01:14:15] relationship to Epstein? And before you
[01:14:18] begin, because I want people to keep
[01:14:19] this in mind as they're listening, as
[01:14:20] far as I know, and I I think this is
[01:14:22] correct, Wexner, who I believe is still
[01:14:25] alive, has never been interviewed by the
[01:14:27] Department of Justice.
[01:14:29] So, just want to throw that out there.
[01:14:31] >> Yeah, that's correct as far as I know.
[01:14:33] Um, so Les Wexner, he owned uh owns
[01:14:36] limited brands, LBRs. So, uh, Victoria
[01:14:39] Secret, he owns Abberrobi and Fitch, a
[01:14:41] lot of the places that you see when you
[01:14:43] go into the mall. Um, I don't think it's
[01:14:45] the case anymore, but for a long time,
[01:14:46] he was the largest clothing manufacturer
[01:14:48] and distributor in the United States.
[01:14:49] Billionaire, incredibly wealth wealthy
[01:14:51] guy. Um, as you said, owns the largest
[01:14:54] and most expensive house in the state of
[01:14:56] Ohio where he lives in Columbus. And,
[01:14:58] uh, the second largest and most
[01:15:00] expensive house in the state of Ohio was
[01:15:02] owned by Jeffrey Epstein and was
[01:15:03] directly behind Wexner's house.
[01:15:05] >> Was
[01:15:06] >> Yeah. So um Wexner he was introduced to
[01:15:09] Wexner um through you know this network
[01:15:12] of people and very very quickly
[01:15:15] uh becomes I mean the nature of their
[01:15:18] relationship is still kind of a mystery
[01:15:20] because it's so hard to explain in any
[01:15:23] in any terms that you can really draw a
[01:15:26] plausible story for. within a very short
[01:15:28] period of time he known this guy he
[01:15:30] known this Epstein guy like two years
[01:15:31] right and not because he had he had
[01:15:35] worked at his company for those two
[01:15:36] years and was so squared away anything
[01:15:38] like that we don't exactly know what he
[01:15:39] was doing during those two years but he
[01:15:40] knew him two years when he signed full
[01:15:42] power of attorney over his entire estate
[01:15:45] less Wexner talking billions of dollars
[01:15:48] the largest clothing manufacturing
[01:15:49] corporation in the country uh or or
[01:15:52] company in the country um to the point
[01:15:55] where this was not a limited power of
[01:15:57] attorney attorney. Jeffrey Epstein could
[01:15:58] sign
[01:15:59] >> He gives Jeffrey Epstein power of
[01:16:01] attorney over everything.
[01:16:02] >> Jeffrey Epste could take out loans in
[01:16:04] his name. He could sign his tax returns.
[01:16:06] He had full power of attorney over the
[01:16:08] Wexner estate. Uh soon after that,
[01:16:12] Wexner's mother gets sick and uh her
[01:16:16] spot on the uh Wexner Foundation board,
[01:16:19] which is how Wexner disposed of most of
[01:16:21] his money, um opens up. He puts he puts
[01:16:24] uh Jeffrey Epstein on there and he
[01:16:26] basically runs the board of the
[01:16:27] foundation for about 15 years
[01:16:29] controlling a lot of where that money
[01:16:30] went and what happened.
[01:16:31] >> 15 years.
[01:16:32] >> Yeah.
[01:16:33] >> And Wexner alleged this was way later on
[01:16:36] um after everything had kind of come
[01:16:37] out. So who kind of knows you know
[01:16:39] people you're everybody's kind of trying
[01:16:40] to distance themselves from Epste but he
[01:16:43] says that Epstein stole a lot of money
[01:16:45] from him through his you know control
[01:16:47] over the foundation everything. probably
[01:16:49] did for all I know. But um you know
[01:16:52] >> we can just I just I'm shocked to learn
[01:16:56] and I am learning this that Jeffrey
[01:16:58] you're positive Jeffrey Epstein had
[01:16:59] power of attorney.
[01:17:01] >> Yes.
[01:17:02] >> Over
[01:17:02] >> you can Yeah. You can read that read
[01:17:04] that anywhere. Yeah. For 16 years by the
[01:17:06] way.
[01:17:07] >> For 16 years.
[01:17:08] >> And so
[01:17:09] >> what has Wexter ever been asked why
[01:17:11] would you give
[01:17:11] >> I don't even think he's forget the
[01:17:13] Department of Justice. I don't think
[01:17:14] he's given any interviews to journalists
[01:17:15] about it. Maybe he'll come on here and
[01:17:17] sit in my seat and talk to you. I kind
[01:17:18] of doubt
[01:17:19] >> I would be polite. I I'm genuinely
[01:17:21] fascinated um by that detail because
[01:17:23] that is, you know, a man who builds like
[01:17:26] all of these characters, you know,
[01:17:27] they're unusual people. They're not
[01:17:28] average people. They're extraordinary
[01:17:30] people by definition. You build a
[01:17:31] billion-dollar company, good or bad.
[01:17:33] You're not like everybody else. And
[01:17:34] you're good. You're good in business.
[01:17:36] And you're careful and judicious. And
[01:17:39] you don't hand power of attorney over to
[01:17:41] some guy you've never worked with.
[01:17:43] Especially he had he had his own
[01:17:45] executives, people who worked for him
[01:17:47] for decades coming to him being like,
[01:17:48] "Boss, who is this guy? What are you
[01:17:50] what are you doing? Why are you giving
[01:17:52] him so much authority and power? There
[01:17:53] was a guy that Wexner had known for
[01:17:55] decades." They go to Ohio State football
[01:17:57] games together. They do dinners
[01:17:58] together. They were good friends. And he
[01:18:01] tells this story about how uh Jeffrey
[01:18:03] Epste comes into the into the picture
[01:18:06] and he's going to meet him for the first
[01:18:07] time. Epste goes over to his office and
[01:18:09] uh Epste shows up like an hour late for
[01:18:12] the meeting and he gets there and the
[01:18:14] first thing he does when he sits down in
[01:18:16] his chair and I mean this is just one of
[01:18:18] those things that this isn't a faux paw.
[01:18:20] This is a message. He sits down in the
[01:18:22] chair at this important businessman.
[01:18:24] It's a good friend of his boss or
[01:18:25] whatever he was Les Wexner. He sits down
[01:18:27] in the chair and he kicks his feet up on
[01:18:28] the on the guy's desk. Guy was like,
[01:18:31] "Okay, that's interesting." You know,
[01:18:33] this guy's not uh Wexner's secretary
[01:18:35] apparently.
[01:18:36] >> Quite a power move. Yeah.
[01:18:37] >> And so, um, Wexner there in that meeting
[01:18:40] gets on the phone with both of the guys
[01:18:42] and he tells his friend, uh, you know,
[01:18:44] Jeffrey's family, treat him like, treat
[01:18:46] him like family, you know, and so
[01:18:48] eventually a little later down the line,
[01:18:49] that guy has a disagreement with
[01:18:51] Epstein, and they get into an argument
[01:18:53] about something. And from that moment
[01:18:55] on, he says he couldn't he couldn't
[01:18:58] reach Wexner by phone. He got cut off
[01:19:01] immediately, completely with no
[01:19:02] explanation. This guy had known him for
[01:19:04] decades because he had a tiff with
[01:19:05] Jeffrey Epstein. And so this guy clearly
[01:19:08] had either some kind of a powerful hold
[01:19:11] over Wexner for one reason or another.
[01:19:13] >> By definition, we can say that
[01:19:15] >> or they were working together in in some
[01:19:17] other way. So Wexner is another one of
[01:19:18] these interesting cats, right? Like
[01:19:20] where his mentor was u a real estate guy
[01:19:24] mainly, but he did a lot of things named
[01:19:25] Max Fischer.
[01:19:27] And I think he was originally from
[01:19:29] Indiana, Max Fischer, but uh lived in
[01:19:32] Ohio. I I I believe. But anyway, either
[01:19:34] way, he was he was Wexner's mentor for a
[01:19:36] while. Not his mentor like when he was
[01:19:38] just getting started. Wexner is already
[01:19:39] rich by this point. It's not about that.
[01:19:41] Fischer's uh his his big main thing was
[01:19:45] uh philanthropic uh contributions and
[01:19:48] management for uh Jewish and Zionist and
[01:19:51] state of Israel related causes, right?
[01:19:53] And so when you look at like what the
[01:19:55] Wexner Foundation did for example, they
[01:19:57] would give a little bit of money to Ohio
[01:19:58] State University here and there and like
[01:20:00] a few other things locally there in
[01:20:02] Columbus and around the state of Ohio,
[01:20:03] but the vast vast vast majority of it
[01:20:05] went to Zionist organizations, Jewish
[01:20:08] organizations, things like that, which
[01:20:09] you know, fine. Um Fischer's the guy
[01:20:12] that sort of that sort of did what
[01:20:14] Yeetsak Shamir did with Robert Maxwell,
[01:20:18] but for less Wexner. You know, you go to
[01:20:20] him and you say, "You've got an
[01:20:21] obligation here to the Jewish state.
[01:20:22] you're a Jewish billionaire, you know,
[01:20:23] you're a big important person in the
[01:20:25] most powerful country in the world. Like
[01:20:26] you have an obligation to your people.
[01:20:28] And again, it's a powerful call. And so
[01:20:30] it really came to in a lot of ways
[01:20:32] define Wexner's life after that. And so
[01:20:35] um in the 1990s,
[01:20:38] this is uh this was in the newspapers
[01:20:39] and stuff during the Clinton
[01:20:40] administration. Really, uh really
[01:20:43] interesting.
[01:20:44] um Les Wexner and Edgar Bronman, which
[01:20:50] uh if that name sounds familiar, it's
[01:20:52] because I mentioned
[01:20:52] >> Sorry, I want to just pause. I was just
[01:20:55] handed this breaking news
[01:20:57] >> to some extent. Um this is from the
[01:21:00] president of the United States released
[01:21:01] on True Social just now. Based on the
[01:21:03] ridiculous amount of publicity, I'm
[01:21:04] quoting given to Jeffrey Epstein. I have
[01:21:06] asked Attorney General Pam Bondi to
[01:21:08] produce any and all pertinent grand jury
[01:21:11] testimony subject to court approval. The
[01:21:13] scam, all caps, perpetrated by
[01:21:15] Democrats, comma, should end, comma,
[01:21:18] right now, exclamation point.
[01:21:20] >> All right, shut the cameras off, guys.
[01:21:21] We're done here.
[01:21:24] >> Well, I still think Okay, that's pretty
[01:21:26] good. I would, you know, I have no idea
[01:21:28] where this leads, if anywhere. I
[01:21:30] certainly hope it leads to greater
[01:21:31] disclosure. That's good for everyone,
[01:21:33] including the president. It's good for
[01:21:35] everyone. Disclosure is good. But it
[01:21:38] doesn't change in my opinion the need
[01:21:41] for anyone who's interested in the story
[01:21:43] to know what the story actually is. So I
[01:21:45] hope you will continue.
[01:21:46] >> Yeah. So um in the 1990s Wexner and
[01:21:50] Edgar Bronman who I mentioned earlier,
[01:21:51] one of the heirs to the serums liquor
[01:21:53] fortune who was one of Jeffrey Epstein's
[01:21:55] clients when he was uh working at Bear
[01:21:58] Sterns. Um those two guys founded a a
[01:22:01] group called the study group but it's
[01:22:04] more uh commonly known as the mega
[01:22:05] group. um that came out in the papers a
[01:22:08] little bit in the late 1990s. Not a lot
[01:22:10] was written, but it was a group of at
[01:22:11] first about 20, but then later it
[01:22:13] expanded Jewish billionaires in the
[01:22:16] United States and Canada who would meet
[01:22:17] at least twice a year to get together
[01:22:19] and just coordinate how they were um
[01:22:23] distributing their philanthropic money,
[01:22:25] what their focuses were for that year.
[01:22:27] Um just making sure they were all acting
[01:22:29] in concert to help serve the interests
[01:22:30] of Israel and their respective
[01:22:32] countries. and they would um they would
[01:22:34] finance uh scholars and other uh
[01:22:37] professionals to write up papers and
[01:22:39] studies and analyses for the Israeli
[01:22:41] government for Israeli intelligence for
[01:22:43] example and they were very plugged into
[01:22:44] that and um very very very connected the
[01:22:48] Israeli government and specifically
[01:22:50] Israeli intelligence through the work
[01:22:51] that they would do for you know for for
[01:22:54] the Israelis and um it uh so you know
[01:22:58] again just one more sort of connection
[01:23:00] there to the intelligence world among
[01:23:02] people who are very very very close to
[01:23:04] to Jeffrey Epstein. Um, now you know
[01:23:08] when you watch the Netflix documentary
[01:23:10] or anything about Jeffrey Epstein, one
[01:23:11] of the things that really does stick out
[01:23:13] to you is this guy. Okay, there's Rich
[01:23:16] and then there's Rich and Jeffrey
[01:23:19] Epstein's rich. I mean, apparently,
[01:23:21] right? This is a guy who
[01:23:23] >> he certainly lived like it.
[01:23:24] >> He had the second law. I mean, when you
[01:23:27] see the the pictures of this place he
[01:23:28] lived in in Ohio, the pictures of this
[01:23:30] ranch he lived on in New Mexico, he had
[01:23:33] a $70 million house in the largest
[01:23:37] private residence, I believe, in uh in
[01:23:39] New York City in Manhattan.
[01:23:40] >> How did he buy that house?
[01:23:41] >> Less Wner gave it to him.
[01:23:44] >> Lex Westerner gave him a $70 million
[01:23:47] house.
[01:23:47] >> Yeah. I don't think it was worth 70
[01:23:48] million at the time, but when he got
[01:23:49] arrested, it was. Yeah. Yeah. Gave it to
[01:23:51] him.
[01:23:51] >> Worth more now,
[01:23:53] >> probably. Yeah. Can I I mean and no
[01:23:55] one's ever asked Lex Les Wexner why did
[01:23:58] you sign over power of attorney over
[01:23:59] your whole life and give among other
[01:24:02] things a $70 million property the
[01:24:03] biggest private residence in Manhattan
[01:24:05] to Jeffrey Epstein no one
[01:24:06] >> I mean I don't think uh I don't think
[01:24:08] he's given anybody the opportunity you
[01:24:10] know he had that um he had that big
[01:24:12] island in you know everybody's seen the
[01:24:14] picture of the temple on the island but
[01:24:15] that's just one little part of it I mean
[01:24:16] it's a it's a much I think it was 60 80
[01:24:19] acre island something like that big
[01:24:20] beautiful mansion several outbuildings
[01:24:23] things that crazy temple. He had a fleet
[01:24:25] of airplanes and not uh just a leerjet
[01:24:27] or something like that. He had a
[01:24:29] customized 727, so basically his own Air
[01:24:32] Force One he was flying around in, you
[01:24:34] know. Um he had a he had a mansion in
[01:24:36] Paris. He had he actually owned a second
[01:24:39] US Virgin Island down there as well. I
[01:24:41] mean, so this is a dude who is
[01:24:44] >> Elon Musk doesn't live this way. He
[01:24:46] probably could, but he doesn't, you
[01:24:48] know,
[01:24:48] >> not even close. No, Elon sleeps on
[01:24:50] people's couches,
[01:24:51] >> right? And so if you take the uh the
[01:24:53] official story, which is that he was a
[01:24:54] money manager of some kind, the only
[01:24:56] client that we know of was Les Wexner,
[01:24:59] but um what he exactly even did for
[01:25:01] Wexner, nobody's really able to uh to
[01:25:05] describe. And so
[01:25:06] >> so the official story is he's a money
[01:25:07] manager,
[01:25:08] >> right?
[01:25:09] >> Is there any So it's hard to manage
[01:25:11] money in a country whose financial
[01:25:13] systems are as regulated as ours are
[01:25:16] anonymously. So if you're actually
[01:25:18] managing money, certainly if you're
[01:25:19] conducting trades, there's a record and
[01:25:23] in some capacities you have to register.
[01:25:24] >> Yeah.
[01:25:25] >> Is there any documentary evidence that
[01:25:28] Jeffrey Epstein was in any recognizable
[01:25:31] sense a money manager? Not only is there
[01:25:33] no documentary evidence, um, you know,
[01:25:35] people who have to understand how, you
[01:25:37] know, what the regulatory environment is
[01:25:39] one reason that it's really hard to do
[01:25:40] any of this kind of thing on that scale,
[01:25:42] under the radar, but also just on a
[01:25:45] personal network level, like in Wall
[01:25:47] Street and places like that, like if
[01:25:48] you're a guy, so Jeffrey Epstein back in
[01:25:50] the 1980s,
[01:25:52] he claims the claim was at the time
[01:25:54] even, not just now, it's not something
[01:25:56] he came up with later, that he was a
[01:25:58] money manager who only took accounts of
[01:26:00] a billion dollars or more. So, you
[01:26:02] didn't just have to be a billionaire.
[01:26:03] You had to have a billion dollars to
[01:26:05] invest with him, right? And a guy who
[01:26:08] knew him back then thought he would do
[01:26:10] Epste a solid and he brought him a
[01:26:12] client who had $600 million he wanted to
[01:26:15] invest with Epstein. This is 1980s
[01:26:17] money. It's like $2 billion today, like
[01:26:19] inflation adjusted, right? You show up
[01:26:22] with that kind of money to Goldman Sachs
[01:26:25] and the CEO is going to meet you at the
[01:26:28] front door and take you up his private
[01:26:29] elevator and the company's vice
[01:26:31] presidents are going to give you a
[01:26:32] presentation about all the people that
[01:26:34] are going to be dedicated only to your
[01:26:36] account. All that kind of stuff.
[01:26:37] >> Like the big biggest investment banks in
[01:26:39] the world are going to audition for you.
[01:26:42] You don't audition for them. You know
[01:26:43] what I mean? Like if you have that kind
[01:26:44] of money. Epstein blew the guy off. He
[01:26:46] said, "Oh, no. It's too small. I'm not I
[01:26:48] don't I don't deal with that kind of
[01:26:49] pocket change." you know, 600 million
[01:26:51] today, $2 billion. And so you say, well,
[01:26:53] that's obviously ridiculous. Obviously,
[01:26:55] there is no fund manager in the world
[01:26:57] that would do that. And so, why would he
[01:26:59] do that? And I think when you look at
[01:27:01] the whole record, the answer is obvious.
[01:27:03] He wasn't a money manager. You know,
[01:27:05] people
[01:27:05] >> he didn't actually invest people's
[01:27:06] money.
[01:27:06] >> Yeah. People think like a uh you know, a
[01:27:08] hedge fund is like a dude sitting at his
[01:27:11] at his desktop computer like on Erade or
[01:27:13] something. Hedge funds have teams of
[01:27:15] analysts and mathematicians and all.
[01:27:16] It's a whole big business, you know, and
[01:27:18] like people need to understand that. So,
[01:27:20] nobody's ever nobody knows anybody who's
[01:27:21] ever worked for Epste in this capacity.
[01:27:24] Um, nobody's ever I mean, look, when
[01:27:26] you're operating at that level, if he
[01:27:28] was who he says he was, moving that kind
[01:27:30] of money around, you know, you don't go
[01:27:32] buy shares in Microsoft, you know, you
[01:27:35] take a position in the company. You
[01:27:37] know, this is these are these are things
[01:27:39] that are done through large institutions
[01:27:41] and you know, you have to have uh
[01:27:43] institutional support so that they can
[01:27:45] uh gather up enough shares for you to
[01:27:48] purchase and then structure the
[01:27:49] purchases in a way that it doesn't just
[01:27:51] suck all the liquidity out of the market
[01:27:53] and and and you know drive the market
[01:27:55] crazy on the stock price for a little
[01:27:56] while. This is a complex operation.
[01:27:58] There's a lot of people involved. Nobody
[01:28:00] has even nobody has heard of anybody
[01:28:02] who's heard of anybody who's ever done
[01:28:04] any kind of
[01:28:05] >> There's no record of anything.
[01:28:06] >> Nothing. No, nothing
[01:28:07] >> him investing money, trading stocks,
[01:28:09] nothing.
[01:28:09] >> Which is just impossible. I mean, it's
[01:28:11] just it's flatout impossible that he was
[01:28:13] doing what the official story says he
[01:28:15] was doing and there's just no trace of
[01:28:16] it. It's not possible.
[01:28:18] >> So, once again, where'd the money come
[01:28:20] from? Clearly, some of it came from Les
[01:28:22] Wexner. We don't I'm summarizing what I
[01:28:25] think you've said. We have no idea why
[01:28:26] Wextern gave him all this power and
[01:28:28] money. We have no idea.
[01:28:31] >> Not any We don't have hard evidence on
[01:28:33] it. You know, some people have suggested
[01:28:35] blackmail because of the things that
[01:28:36] have come out about Epstein, but we
[01:28:37] don't have any thing like that. There
[01:28:39] are people who uh were in the Wexner
[01:28:41] circle back in those days when Epstein
[01:28:43] was around. And um they've claimed that
[01:28:45] Epstein was known kind of around the
[01:28:47] office as the boyfriend, but that's just
[01:28:49] an allegation. Nobody has any hard
[01:28:51] information on that. And both of the
[01:28:53] guys, Epstein was asked about it under
[01:28:54] oath and Wexner, they they all obviously
[01:28:57] deny that. Um, so I don't, you know,
[01:28:59] it's not an accusation thing, but it's
[01:29:01] just trying to understand something that
[01:29:02] otherwise is like really inexplicable.
[01:29:04] Right.
[01:29:05] >> So what were there other because
[01:29:08] Epstein's annual operating budget had to
[01:29:11] be like it's hard to calculate but like
[01:29:14] not that hard just maintaining aircraft
[01:29:16] like that is just beyond
[01:29:18] >> big yacht he had. Yeah.
[01:29:20] >> Beyond.
[01:29:21] >> Who are the other rich people he got
[01:29:23] money from? Do we know? Well, so there,
[01:29:25] you know, there was a story that
[01:29:26] actually just came out in the last few
[01:29:27] days that I have not had an opportunity
[01:29:29] to really dig down deep in. Um, I should
[01:29:31] go check Mike Benz's Twitter feed. He's
[01:29:32] probably done this or he will soon, but
[01:29:34] um, uh, where there are records
[01:29:37] apparently of a billion a half dollars
[01:29:40] that were transferred to and from
[01:29:43] Epstein, apparently involving people
[01:29:45] whose names, you know, we've all we've
[01:29:47] all heard before. That's not public. Um,
[01:29:50] and so I, you know, again, I haven't dug
[01:29:52] deeply into that and exactly what's
[01:29:53] going on with it. So maybe there's,
[01:29:54] maybe there's one document there that we
[01:29:57] can, uh, you know, that's, that's that's
[01:29:58] going to tell us something. But even
[01:30:00] that that's that doesn't explain how I
[01:30:03] mean, he's living the lifestyle of a guy
[01:30:04] who personally has billions and billions
[01:30:06] of dollars.
[01:30:07] >> But it doesn't explain motive. It
[01:30:08] doesn't explain why Wexner would give
[01:30:10] him all of this at the very a very young
[01:30:13] age with no relevant experience as as a
[01:30:17] tax advisor, as an investor. It's just
[01:30:20] like
[01:30:20] >> I mean, think about this, Tucker. There
[01:30:22] was a there was a point in the 1980s
[01:30:24] when uh it might have been the early 90s
[01:30:26] actually. Wexner again owned Victoria's
[01:30:28] Secret. For a guy uh like Jeffrey
[01:30:30] Epstein, that's kind of a a gold mine
[01:30:33] you're sitting on, right? because he
[01:30:35] would go out and he would pose as a
[01:30:37] talent scout. He would tell people that
[01:30:39] he was that and he would present
[01:30:40] credentials that made it plausible and
[01:30:42] he would get uh girls who wanted to be
[01:30:45] models who wanted to be in Victoria's
[01:30:47] Secret um to pose for him and then he
[01:30:50] would sexually assault them uh at times.
[01:30:54] And so two of the ex this kind of got
[01:30:56] word got around that he was doing this
[01:30:57] and two of the top executives at
[01:30:59] Victoria's Secret together guys who had
[01:31:01] worked there for years knew Wexner well.
[01:31:03] They went to him together and presented
[01:31:04] the evidence and told him that this is
[01:31:06] what this guy's doing and they never
[01:31:08] heard anything more about it. Nothing
[01:31:09] happened. And so you ask like you got
[01:31:12] this young, I guess, run-of-the-mill
[01:31:14] money manager dude who uh at Wexner at
[01:31:18] this point is only known for a few
[01:31:19] years. It's not like they have a
[01:31:20] decadesl long relationship or anything.
[01:31:22] And two of your top executives come and
[01:31:23] say he's using your name basically to
[01:31:26] sexually assault women who want to work
[01:31:27] for our company. And it gets blown off.
[01:31:30] And you say, "Who could get away with
[01:31:32] something like that?" You know, and and
[01:31:35] the answer is the kind of guy that
[01:31:37] Wexner would give full power of attorney
[01:31:38] over his estate to, I suppose. You know,
[01:31:41] >> it's wild. So, there was a a couple
[01:31:44] people who've been revealed in the
[01:31:46] popular press as having had
[01:31:48] relationships with Epstein and giving
[01:31:50] him money. One of them is a guy called
[01:31:51] Leon Black.
[01:31:52] >> Mhm.
[01:31:52] >> Um, what is that story? So, we know that
[01:31:55] Black gave him over $100 million. I
[01:31:57] think he said I think he's admitted that
[01:31:59] he did, right?
[01:32:00] >> Yeah. They all kind of have the same
[01:32:01] story that like we trusted this guy as
[01:32:03] an investment manager basically and you
[01:32:05] know we were suckers. It's like there's
[01:32:07] not a lot of billionaire suckers out
[01:32:09] there, you know, when it when it comes
[01:32:10] to the money side of their life. Um you
[01:32:13] know all the details of he and Black's
[01:32:16] relationship I'm I'm not completely firm
[01:32:19] on honestly. But he gives in in general
[01:32:21] gives the same story that like Wexner
[01:32:23] gives. Oh, I trusted him. I was just too
[01:32:25] naive and too trusting and scammed me
[01:32:27] like he scammed everybody. I mean, but
[01:32:29] you know,
[01:32:29] >> they don't even describe what the scam
[01:32:30] was. What's the scam?
[01:32:31] >> Well, so you look, for example, at what
[01:32:33] happened with Hoffenberg before Epstein
[01:32:35] turned on him. He took $100 million out
[01:32:37] of the company and Hoffenberg's
[01:32:38] accounts, moved it offshore, and then
[01:32:40] turned states evidence on the guy and
[01:32:42] sent him off to prison. And so, you
[01:32:44] know, uh, and what Hoffenberg said
[01:32:45] Epstein would do, uh, to other people.
[01:32:48] What eventually got done to him, um, is
[01:32:51] he would, you know, he would, they would
[01:32:53] take their money into Towers Financial
[01:32:55] at the time, but he would set up other
[01:32:56] companies to do this as well, and he
[01:32:57] would get investors to come in and then
[01:32:59] he would take their money and he would
[01:33:00] hide it away. And he would do it after
[01:33:02] he had procured blackmail on people to
[01:33:04] control, you know, to control them
[01:33:06] afterwards so that they didn't come come
[01:33:07] after him. And this is again something
[01:33:09] that I wouldn't probably put so much
[01:33:12] stock into that uh if Hoffenberg had
[01:33:15] been interviewed about it in 2019 and
[01:33:18] told that story when people are already
[01:33:19] talking about all of this stuff kind of
[01:33:21] it's out there. This is 2002. Nobody
[01:33:24] knows who Jeffrey Epstein is in 2002. I
[01:33:26] mean this is a um this is before you
[01:33:30] know he maybe was in the society pages
[01:33:32] or something and you know in New York
[01:33:33] City or something but nobody he was not
[01:33:35] a celebrity. And so Hoffenberg is making
[01:33:37] these very specific allegations about
[01:33:39] people that Epstein was connected with
[01:33:41] in the 80s and 90s from Lease to
[01:33:43] Kosigible and others to the specific I
[01:33:45] mean he gets down to exactly what he
[01:33:48] called the scheme that he was running
[01:33:49] playing the box and he describes the
[01:33:51] whole thing and essentially uh it's
[01:33:53] scamming wealthy people out of their
[01:33:54] money and using blackmail to make sure
[01:33:56] that they're afraid to come after him.
[01:33:59] Um now how much of his wealth uh that
[01:34:04] represented you know it's kind of hard
[01:34:05] to say because in um like when he got
[01:34:08] sent off to jail in 200 2008 2009
[01:34:13] um he he gave he moved all of his money
[01:34:17] offshore to Israel actually and um and
[01:34:20] also sent 46.5 million to the Wexner
[01:34:24] Foundation which Wexner says was him
[01:34:27] paying back what he had stolen from
[01:34:29] Wexner. I haven't heard him ask the
[01:34:32] question, why didn't you press charges?
[01:34:33] Why, you know, anything like that. So,
[01:34:35] who knows? Um, but uh yeah, so I mean,
[01:34:39] let's talk a little bit about what
[01:34:40] happened in uh in that first case of his
[01:34:43] cuz
[01:34:43] >> exactly. So, Wex So, Epstein is unknown
[01:34:46] to most people. Then he becomes sort of
[01:34:49] famous in 20067.
[01:34:51] >> Yeah. And in circle, you know, in like
[01:34:53] society circles, he he was pretty
[01:34:55] famous. I mean, this was a big it was a
[01:34:57] big deal. I mean, you know, West Palm
[01:34:59] Beach is a small community down there,
[01:35:01] um, of of very connected people who who,
[01:35:04] you know,
[01:35:04] >> how did he get busted? What was he
[01:35:06] accused of? What was he convicted of?
[01:35:08] >> Um, so Epstein's thing that he would do
[01:35:12] usually is starting with Glain Maxwell
[01:35:15] as his like initial recruiter, he would
[01:35:17] find girls that were vulnerable in one
[01:35:19] way or another. Somebody, you know,
[01:35:20] young girls, usually at high schools. he
[01:35:22] wasn't uh by all accounts I think the
[01:35:24] youngest girl that he's accused of
[01:35:26] messing with was 12 years old at the
[01:35:27] time
[01:35:28] >> um so you know execute him or bury him
[01:35:32] under the prison but you know a little
[01:35:33] bit different proclivity than the uh the
[01:35:36] prepubescent pedophile type probably a
[01:35:38] different psychology you know
[01:35:40] >> um but uh through Maxwell story goes um
[01:35:44] she would go out and she would identify
[01:35:45] a girl who you know very often was from
[01:35:47] broken family or from you know no father
[01:35:50] in the picture you know was very
[01:35:52] important because fathers tend to beat
[01:35:54] the hell out of, you know, 40-year-old
[01:35:56] guys who sexually assault their
[01:35:58] daughters. And so you find these girls
[01:35:59] who kind of already have like some
[01:36:01] problems and he would bring them in to
[01:36:02] give them a massage. Say, "Look, I he's
[01:36:04] this wealthy guy. He's very interesting.
[01:36:06] He uh just likes to get massages. He'll
[01:36:08] pay you $200 to give them a massage.
[01:36:10] Don't you want to just make $200 back in
[01:36:12] the 80s, 90s, you know, early 2000s, a
[01:36:14] lot of money for a high school girl,
[01:36:16] especially um from the wrong side of the
[01:36:17] tracks." And so some of them would, I
[01:36:19] presume, say no, but others would go do
[01:36:21] it. And once they found ones that they
[01:36:23] liked who kind of fit the profile, then
[01:36:24] they would outsource the recruitment to
[01:36:26] those girls. And it was actually one
[01:36:28] instance, in fact, where the girl when
[01:36:30] they tried to assault her because, you
[01:36:32] know, they'd start out with the massage
[01:36:34] and then they would go from there. And
[01:36:36] the girls at this point, you're in this
[01:36:37] billionaire's house isolated behind a
[01:36:40] gate and what are you going to do? You
[01:36:43] know, they don't it's a scary situation
[01:36:45] for a high school girl, obviously. You
[01:36:47] know, a lot of the people who look at
[01:36:48] the situation, and I tend to find very,
[01:36:50] I guess it's not strange when you really
[01:36:52] think about it, but um when I talk to
[01:36:54] men about this, they're like, "Kill that
[01:36:57] guy. Just get rid of that guy." When you
[01:36:58] talk to women about it, I find that
[01:37:00] they're a little bit more punitive in
[01:37:01] their view. And maybe that's just cuz
[01:37:02] >> what was she doing there?
[01:37:03] >> Yeah. They remember being 15 and they're
[01:37:05] like, "I wasn't just some purely
[01:37:07] innocent dove at 15."
[01:37:08] >> Well, men are protective as they should
[01:37:09] be with women.
[01:37:10] >> And so, um there was one girl who she
[01:37:13] did react that way. she, you know, um
[01:37:15] she refused to do anything. And they
[01:37:16] said, "Well, okay. It's all right. It's
[01:37:17] all right." You know, um we still think
[01:37:19] you're awesome. You know, we want to get
[01:37:21] massages and everything. I'll tell you
[01:37:22] what, you don't have to do anything. Um
[01:37:23] but we'll give you $200 for every one of
[01:37:26] your friends that you bring. If you find
[01:37:27] others, you bring them in to do this,
[01:37:29] and you know, we'll give them $200,
[01:37:31] you'll get $200 every time you do it.
[01:37:32] And she and she did it. And those girls,
[01:37:35] you know, really kind of sickeningly, I
[01:37:37] think, um, you know, they were kind of
[01:37:39] portrayed in the press as like
[01:37:41] prostitution solicitors and kind of
[01:37:43] these are minors. These are high school
[01:37:44] girls being manipulated by uh by adults
[01:37:47] who very skillfully manipulated
[01:37:49] billionaires, you know what I mean? So,
[01:37:51] um, that's just a ridiculous idea to
[01:37:53] like place a responsibility on them.
[01:37:55] Kind of a sick thing to write in a
[01:37:56] newspaper, honestly. But um and so they
[01:37:59] would do that and you know that sort of
[01:38:01] ensured I mean the girl who is from a
[01:38:03] broken family and has some problems from
[01:38:05] the wrong side of the tracks. She might
[01:38:07] know a girl who uh is from an intact you
[01:38:10] know middle class family with two
[01:38:12] concerned parents but very often her
[01:38:14] friends are kind of from the same mold
[01:38:16] that she's from. Every once in a while
[01:38:18] they weren't though. And this is part of
[01:38:19] how he got caught is one of the girls
[01:38:22] that they brought in. They had a father.
[01:38:24] They had a mother who cared and they had
[01:38:26] a a pretty regular family who uh after
[01:38:29] everything was over, she ran back to
[01:38:31] them and told them all about it and they
[01:38:32] went to the police.
[01:38:34] And so the West Palm Beach, this was
[01:38:36] down in Florida, the West Palm Beach uh
[01:38:39] police department starts looking into
[01:38:40] the guy, starts gathering more
[01:38:42] information, starts talking to more
[01:38:43] witnesses, and very quickly this thing
[01:38:46] starts expanding out so that two
[01:38:48] witnesses becomes four and four becomes
[01:38:50] eight and eight becomes 16. It's like
[01:38:52] expanding a lot and they're realizing
[01:38:54] they have a a big big big big issue on
[01:38:55] their hands and as they're going through
[01:38:58] the Netflix documentary, it leaves out a
[01:39:00] lot of really important information, but
[01:39:02] it's really good on this stuff. Um, you
[01:39:04] know, they interview like the chief of
[01:39:06] police in West Palm Beach there at the
[01:39:07] time. And you can see he is just
[01:39:10] flabbergasted, outraged, just, you know,
[01:39:13] to the point where, you know, he says at
[01:39:15] one point that it it it cost him his
[01:39:17] faith in the US criminal justice system,
[01:39:19] you know, because he was getting
[01:39:20] stonewalled like crazy at the local
[01:39:22] level. People in his department or
[01:39:24] somewhere in the local government were
[01:39:26] leaking the information of the
[01:39:27] investigation to Jeffrey Epstein. So,
[01:39:29] for example, when they raided his house,
[01:39:31] finally went in there and all the
[01:39:32] computers had been taken away. It was
[01:39:33] totally ready for the totally ready for
[01:39:36] the raid and prepared for it. Everything
[01:39:37] was removed. Um, and he was 100% tipped
[01:39:40] off, they say. Um, and so he's facing
[01:39:43] this kind of resistance at the local
[01:39:45] level and the state prosecutor level.
[01:39:47] And so, he does something that you don't
[01:39:49] do as a chief of police. Uh, he just
[01:39:51] went completely around his chain of
[01:39:52] command and went directly to the feds
[01:39:54] himself and said, "I'm I'm going to
[01:39:56] bring the feds in." Like clearly the
[01:39:57] state and the local officials are just
[01:40:00] too corrupted, you know, apparently.
[01:40:01] Maybe it's just because he's an
[01:40:03] important guy and they don't want to
[01:40:04] rock the boat and bring bad publicity,
[01:40:05] but whatever it is, I need to bring the
[01:40:07] heavy artillery in here because the feds
[01:40:09] aren't going to care, you know, they're
[01:40:11] they're not he's not big enough for
[01:40:12] them, you know, supposedly. And so he
[01:40:15] gives it over to the feds. And that's
[01:40:18] when it ends up in the in the lap of
[01:40:19] Alex Aosta, who was the Southern
[01:40:21] District of Florida uh US attorney at
[01:40:24] the time. And so they start looking into
[01:40:27] this guy and they start building out a
[01:40:29] case. You have this uh uh woman, Villain
[01:40:31] Noeva, I think her her name was, who was
[01:40:33] the lead prosecutor for the US
[01:40:35] attorney's office on the Epstein case.
[01:40:37] And she, from all appearances at least,
[01:40:40] was very enthusiastic and earnest about
[01:40:42] trying to pursue this case and was very
[01:40:43] upset about how the whole thing was
[01:40:45] handled by her superiors. But they're
[01:40:47] building out a case and they get to the
[01:40:48] point where I mean this was actually
[01:40:50] even before the West Palm Beach Police
[01:40:52] Department did this. The feds got handed
[01:40:55] a case
[01:40:56] with 40 something on there underage
[01:41:00] witnesses accusing this guy,
[01:41:02] corroborating each other's stories,
[01:41:04] telling the exact same story of how they
[01:41:06] were recruited, what happened when they
[01:41:08] got there, what they were asked and made
[01:41:09] to do, everything down the line. Right.
[01:41:11] This is like when they when when the
[01:41:14] West Palm Beach uh first went to the
[01:41:16] prosecutor after they started building
[01:41:18] their uh their their case, the guy they
[01:41:20] said the guy like sort of chuckled and
[01:41:22] laughed. He was like, "This is going to
[01:41:23] be the easiest case I've ever done." You
[01:41:25] know, this is a open and we're going to
[01:41:26] put this guy away for a hundred years.
[01:41:28] Like this is the easiest case we're ever
[01:41:29] going to do. And he hand he can't do it
[01:41:32] at the state level. So he hands it over
[01:41:33] to the feds and open and shut. I mean,
[01:41:36] you just how do you get away from 40 on
[01:41:39] the record corroborating independent
[01:41:41] witnesses, right? You can you can
[01:41:43] discredit one or two or 10, you still
[01:41:45] got 30 left, you know, and um goes to
[01:41:49] the feds and uh they're bu they build
[01:41:52] out the case more. They bring in more
[01:41:53] witnesses. They gather more evidence and
[01:41:55] all of a sudden uh the prosecutor, she
[01:41:58] starts running into obstacles of her
[01:42:00] own. One of the things, for example,
[01:42:02] they found out was that the computers
[01:42:04] that had been taken out of his house in
[01:42:05] West Palm Beach were in the possession
[01:42:07] of somebody connected to Epstein's
[01:42:08] lawyers. And so she put out a gr she put
[01:42:11] out a a Department of Justice subpoena
[01:42:14] demanding those computers from the
[01:42:16] lawyers and the people. And the lawyers
[01:42:18] kind of, you know, they they delay and
[01:42:21] have meetings and, you know, put things
[01:42:22] off and so forth. And these are some of
[01:42:24] them people we've heard of Alan
[01:42:26] Dersoids, people like that uh who um
[01:42:30] they delay they get and so one day uh
[01:42:33] she goes to her bosses
[01:42:36] and she kind of grills them a little bit
[01:42:38] like what the hell is going on here? You
[01:42:39] know what? She wrote this in an email
[01:42:41] actually. She was very aggressive about
[01:42:43] it though. She's like I don't know
[01:42:44] what's happening here. I don't know what
[01:42:45] the deal is but like we have we have a
[01:42:47] child predator on our hands with an open
[01:42:49] andsh shut case to put this guy away for
[01:42:51] the rest of our life. what is what is
[01:42:52] the problem here? And she gets
[01:42:55] reprimanded and told in no uncertain
[01:42:57] terms, your attitude is not appreciated
[01:42:59] and you need to back off and all these
[01:43:00] kind of things by her superior. And so
[01:43:02] then one day uh and this is while the
[01:43:04] subpoena's out for those computers,
[01:43:07] uh Alex Aosta personally, uh goes and
[01:43:10] cuts a deal with Epste's lawyers without
[01:43:12] telling the lead prosecutor who's
[01:43:14] looking into the case, without telling
[01:43:16] the victims, which is in contravention
[01:43:18] of victim's rights law. You know, if
[01:43:20] you're gonna cut a deal with a sex
[01:43:22] offender, uh, you got to tell the
[01:43:24] victims, hey, by the way, this is what's
[01:43:25] happening. Here's why we're doing it,
[01:43:26] and just so you know, he's going to be
[01:43:28] out of jail in a year or something. You
[01:43:29] have to tell them it's a law.
[01:43:30] >> How did this guy wind up as labor
[01:43:32] secretary?
[01:43:32] >> That is a story worth looking into. I
[01:43:35] don't know. Um, but
[01:43:37] >> a lot of candidates for the gig.
[01:43:38] >> So, he Yeah, he comes in,
[01:43:41] >> right? and he cuts a deal with the
[01:43:43] lawyers that says that the federal
[01:43:46] government agrees not to prosecute
[01:43:48] Epstein for any of the crimes that are
[01:43:51] being alleged, any related crimes that
[01:43:55] have yet to be alleged, nor will they
[01:43:57] prosecute any of his accompllices known
[01:44:00] or unknown.
[01:44:02] So, crimes that come out in the future
[01:44:04] committed by people who aren't known
[01:44:06] about yet, those are covered under this
[01:44:08] immunity as well. Right? is the most
[01:44:10] blanket you can possibly imagine. And as
[01:44:13] a condition of the deal, uh the subpoena
[01:44:15] for his computers was dropped. Okay. Um
[01:44:19] so it sounds like they intentionally
[01:44:23] didn't gather a lot of evidence
[01:44:26] >> 100%.
[01:44:27] >> So this is relevant. The reason I'm
[01:44:29] bringing it up is there's this I said I
[01:44:31] wouldn't talk about contemporary
[01:44:32] politics, but there is this huge
[01:44:34] controversy over why isn't the DOJ
[01:44:36] releasing all this information? And my
[01:44:39] informed understanding is at least to
[01:44:41] some extent because they don't have it
[01:44:43] and they don't have it because it was
[01:44:44] never gathered and I don't know why
[01:44:47] nobody has said that publicly. Um I'm
[01:44:51] not making excuses for anybody by the
[01:44:53] way but I but it's really interesting.
[01:44:55] So the cover up began immediately
[01:44:58] >> 100% and went all the way up to the
[01:44:59] federal level. And then just to remind
[01:45:01] everybody where this conversation
[01:45:02] started, that US attorney, future labor
[01:45:04] secretary under uh Donald Trump was
[01:45:06] apparently on the record uh telling the
[01:45:08] people who were vetting him for the
[01:45:10] labor secretary job that he the reason
[01:45:12] he cut that deal was because he was told
[01:45:15] Epstein belonged to intelligence and to
[01:45:17] leave it alone. Okay. So that so okay,
[01:45:21] let's just set this in time and place.
[01:45:23] The feds basically protecting Jeffrey
[01:45:27] Epstein in 2007. Yeah.
[01:45:30] >> Is
[01:45:31] >> that's the Bush administration
[01:45:34] >> and it clearly this is a very
[01:45:36] high-profile thing. It was in the
[01:45:38] papers. DOJ this is their you know Aosta
[01:45:41] is a US attorney. He's the federal
[01:45:43] prosecutor in Southern District of
[01:45:44] Florida. Correct.
[01:45:45] >> Mhm.
[01:45:47] >> So what does DOJ think of this? Like why
[01:45:49] are they involved in it?
[01:45:51] >> I mean involved in like the cover up.
[01:45:54] >> The cover up.
[01:45:55] >> I think uh you know that's that's the
[01:45:57] interesting question. I go back to the
[01:45:58] question I asked earlier like a US
[01:46:00] attorney is pretty high up, you know,
[01:46:02] he's running the Southern District of
[01:46:03] Florida's US attorney's office. That
[01:46:05] guy, there's not that many people above
[01:46:07] his head who can tell him to drop a case
[01:46:09] like this. I mean, you got to think
[01:46:10] about it like this, too.
[01:46:12] >> I mean, this is a career case for a
[01:46:14] prosecutor like Aosta. I mean, you're
[01:46:16] going to be attorney general behind this
[01:46:18] case someday. You know, you talk
[01:46:19] billionaire playboy uh putting him away
[01:46:22] for his entire life because he's
[01:46:23] sexually abusing underage girls for
[01:46:25] years and years. I mean, you're going to
[01:46:28] this makes your whole career. And so to
[01:46:30] drop that, there's only a couple people
[01:46:32] and a couple reasons that somebody like
[01:46:34] him would agree would agree to do that,
[01:46:36] you know, and and uh there are people
[01:46:38] whose names we've all heard probably,
[01:46:40] you know, I think Alberto, was it
[01:46:42] Gonzalez, who was attorney general at
[01:46:43] the time, and I mean, it's only a few
[01:46:45] people who could do that. Um, you know,
[01:46:47] one of the things might have something
[01:46:48] to do with it is, uh, in when before
[01:46:51] Jeffrey Epstein was sentenced, for
[01:46:53] whatever reason, you have this
[01:46:54] billionaire who's just the definition of
[01:46:56] a flight risk, um, they don't take his
[01:46:58] passport away. And before he's
[01:47:00] sentenced, he uh, he goes he flees. He
[01:47:03] go flees the country, goes to Israel,
[01:47:05] stays there for several months, moved
[01:47:07] all his money offshore by this point,
[01:47:09] and while he's in Israel, he uh, he's
[01:47:11] he's telling people there that he's
[01:47:13] thinking about staying because you can
[01:47:14] actually you can actually do that. they
[01:47:16] don't extradite, you know, uh, Jewish
[01:47:18] criminals at least who who flee to
[01:47:20] Israel. There's a there's a organization
[01:47:22] called Jewish Community Watch, um, which
[01:47:24] is a Jewish organization, uh, that
[01:47:26] tracks,
[01:47:28] uh, pedophiles who have fled the United
[01:47:30] States to go to Israel where there's no
[01:47:32] no extradition of of Jewish criminals
[01:47:33] there. And um between just the years uh
[01:47:36] I I think it was 2010 when they started
[01:47:38] when they opened up and 2016 2017 when
[01:47:41] this story was written. So a period of
[01:47:43] six years there were already 60
[01:47:44] pedophiles from the United States that
[01:47:46] had fled to Israel and were living
[01:47:47] freely there. Some of them had
[01:47:48] reaffended there and got thrown in
[01:47:50] Israeli jails. But um so this is a thing
[01:47:52] you know uh and Jeffrey Epste was
[01:47:54] >> Why doesn't the US government demand the
[01:47:56] government of Israel send them back?
[01:48:00] Um,
[01:48:01] I mean, you've been self-employed for a
[01:48:04] while, but when you weren't, was it your
[01:48:05] habit to go to your boss and make
[01:48:07] demands of them on a regular basis? I
[01:48:09] don't know. I mean, since when do we
[01:48:10] ever make demands on Israel? It's been a
[01:48:12] long It's been a long time.
[01:48:13] >> I don't I don't know, but I I you know,
[01:48:16] that's obviously distressing. So, um,
[01:48:19] okay. So, there's clearly a cover up at
[01:48:21] the very beginning. And I just want to
[01:48:23] say again, I think that's one, not the
[01:48:26] totality of, but one of the reasons we
[01:48:28] don't have this information now is
[01:48:29] because DOJ doesn't have the
[01:48:30] information.
[01:48:30] >> Can I tie up that last point real quick
[01:48:31] for just a second? So, um, him being in
[01:48:34] Israel, uh, and at least having the
[01:48:36] threat of staying there, uh, you know,
[01:48:38] that may have played a role in him
[01:48:39] cutting his deal because that's when his
[01:48:40] deal was.
[01:48:41] >> He's already been charged at this point.
[01:48:42] >> He's awaiting sentencing.
[01:48:44] >> He's been convicted
[01:48:45] >> and they don't take his passport and he
[01:48:48] >> he's been convicted and he leaves the
[01:48:50] country.
[01:48:51] >> Correct. and his plea deal um or well so
[01:48:55] no no let me back that up. His plea deal
[01:48:58] was negotiated while he was out of the
[01:49:01] country because he he didn't fight the
[01:49:03] he didn't fight the charges. It wasn't
[01:49:04] it didn't go to you know go to trial to
[01:49:06] a jury trial or anything. He was out of
[01:49:08] the country and his lawyers could
[01:49:10] credibly go to the D.
[01:49:11] >> Say that is special treatment. Did any
[01:49:12] of the J6 defendants get treatment like
[01:49:14] that?
[01:49:14] >> No, I don't think so.
[01:49:15] >> That's what's infuriating about all
[01:49:16] this. leaving aside, you know, a lot of
[01:49:18] other elements that are upsetting. But
[01:49:20] the most infuriating is just the the
[01:49:21] two-tiers or multi-tier system of
[01:49:24] justice.
[01:49:24] >> This is something that people, I think,
[01:49:26] if not maybe even at the highest levels
[01:49:28] when I read uh President Trump's true
[01:49:30] socials about it, things like that that
[01:49:32] people are just they don't seem to be
[01:49:34] understanding is this isn't about some
[01:49:36] guy that sexually assaulted a bunch of
[01:49:37] girls. Like Jeffrey Epstein, for better
[01:49:39] or for worse, has become a proxy for
[01:49:42] other things. You know,
[01:49:43] >> can I just interrupt you to say our uh
[01:49:47] faithful and gifted researcher has just
[01:49:49] held up a note saying Acasta apparently
[01:49:51] Alex Aosta has said and this is
[01:49:54] different from what I described um that
[01:49:57] he never said that Epstein was was
[01:49:59] connected to intelligence.
[01:50:01] >> So that is not my understanding. So he
[01:50:03] was asked about it at a press conference
[01:50:04] and he essentially refused to answer. He
[01:50:07] said um you know that's he said I
[01:50:09] wouldn't take those media reports at
[01:50:11] face value and beyond that uh department
[01:50:14] of justice policy you know kind of
[01:50:16] forbids me from going any further into
[01:50:17] that. Then there was another there was
[01:50:18] an ABC news report and this is kind of
[01:50:20] an example of how this stuff gets out
[01:50:22] into the public mind. There was an ABC
[01:50:24] pretty Yeah, it was ABC News report was
[01:50:26] talking about his DOJ deal back then.
[01:50:29] And um and they said that uh
[01:50:34] in the story they said that uh the DOJ
[01:50:36] had had stated that he had no
[01:50:38] connections to intelligence.
[01:50:41] But when you actually go read the
[01:50:42] documents, that's not what was asked at
[01:50:44] all. The the question was not whether he
[01:50:46] had any connections to intelligence. The
[01:50:48] question was whether he was given
[01:50:50] leniency because of cooperation that he
[01:50:53] was giving to the FBI and DOJ uh on
[01:50:56] cases related to Bear Sterns and they
[01:50:57] said no to that and it got written up in
[01:50:59] the news as them saying he had no
[01:51:01] connection to the intelligence community
[01:51:03] which is not true.
[01:51:04] >> The lying is like overwhelming.
[01:51:07] >> Yeah. And so, um, just so everybody
[01:51:09] understands here, I mean, this is a guy
[01:51:12] who, again, over 40 on there witnesses,
[01:51:15] most of them underage, corroborating
[01:51:18] each other's stories independently of
[01:51:19] this guy sexually assaulting underage
[01:51:22] girls for years. He gets this
[01:51:24] non-prosecution agreement with the
[01:51:26] federal government in perpetuity, him
[01:51:28] and all of his accompllices, known and
[01:51:30] unknown for crimes known and unknown,
[01:51:33] and it gets sent down to the state
[01:51:34] level. And he agrees to a two-year term
[01:51:38] in down there in southern Florida, not
[01:51:41] at not in a federal prison, not in a
[01:51:43] state prison, at the county jail where
[01:51:46] he has, this sounds like I'm making this
[01:51:48] up. I'm not. Uh he has his own wing of
[01:51:50] the jail to himself. His cell door
[01:51:53] remains open. He gets out on work
[01:51:56] release for 12 hours a day, six days a
[01:51:59] week, accompanied only by security that
[01:52:02] he pays the salary of. He only has to
[01:52:06] stay the night there six days a week and
[01:52:07] then spend one day a week there in the
[01:52:09] jail. So, uh you know,
[01:52:10] >> so it's like the National Guard.
[01:52:12] >> Yeah. And and and again, you're not
[01:52:14] talking about a guy who got busted
[01:52:16] embezzling funds. You know, you're
[01:52:17] talking about a guy who got busted doing
[01:52:19] the thing that if you were to poll every
[01:52:23] American, I believe, and ask them what's
[01:52:25] the worst thing. What is the worst thing
[01:52:27] that anybody can do that you would, you
[01:52:29] know, you're against the death penalty
[01:52:30] that you might make an exception for?
[01:52:32] It's molesting little children. You
[01:52:34] know, everybody kind of agrees that that
[01:52:35] is the red line. Everybody feels that
[01:52:37] way that I know that you know, that
[01:52:39] everybody listening to this knows. And
[01:52:41] so you ask like what are the possible
[01:52:43] reasons that could be big enough and
[01:52:45] important enough that they would let a
[01:52:47] guy like this have a I mean it's
[01:52:49] insulting to the investigators to the
[01:52:51] police to the prosecutors to give a guy
[01:52:53] a deal like that you know and
[01:52:55] >> can I say one thing that has always
[01:52:56] struck me about this case and why I
[01:52:59] think it's like revealing of the entire
[01:53:02] power structure in the United States
[01:53:04] Epste and there was testimony from
[01:53:06] public testimony from women who lived
[01:53:09] with Epstein to this fact his contempt
[01:53:13] for Americans, sort of normal middle
[01:53:16] class working-class Americans, he did
[01:53:18] not see them as fully human. He didn't
[01:53:20] and at all. So, it's like molesting, you
[01:53:24] know, a high school girl from
[01:53:27] housing development or a trailer park in
[01:53:29] South Florida doesn't really count as
[01:53:31] molesting because she's a pro. Like, who
[01:53:32] cares?
[01:53:33] >> Yeah.
[01:53:33] >> And that attitude
[01:53:36] suses our leadership class. Like, that
[01:53:38] is their attitude. Yeah. 100,000 people
[01:53:40] die of fentinel. Yeah, but I mean
[01:53:43] people,
[01:53:44] >> you know what I mean? Like it's sad, but
[01:53:45] it's not an emergency because
[01:53:47] >> cuz they're like people you would never
[01:53:48] meet and you don't really care about it
[01:53:49] just building their [ __ ] dollar store
[01:53:50] in their town and like nobody cares
[01:53:52] about them.
[01:53:52] >> He really had that attitude, but that's
[01:53:55] the attitude they all have.
[01:53:57] >> He had justification for having that
[01:53:58] attitude in terms of his the impunity
[01:54:00] with which he operated. And this is
[01:54:02] actually something I was hoping we would
[01:54:04] get to because all this stuff is super
[01:54:05] intelling and important, all the
[01:54:07] intelligence stuff and everything. And
[01:54:08] if you want like all the deep deep deep
[01:54:11] detail on that stuff, I did a six-hour
[01:54:13] long podcast series on it. Guys like
[01:54:15] Mike Benz, Ryan Dawson's one of the
[01:54:17] chief researchers who's really done a
[01:54:20] lot of the work that uh people who write
[01:54:21] books about the nation being under
[01:54:23] blackmail and so forth like crib this
[01:54:25] guy's research without crediting him,
[01:54:27] you know. Uh but uh and I'm going to I'm
[01:54:30] actually going to interview him next
[01:54:31] week just to go really deep on a lot of
[01:54:34] the uh a lot of the stuff that we're not
[01:54:36] able to get here to here tonight. Um
[01:54:40] but uh you know the thing I want to I
[01:54:43] really want to kind of maybe the
[01:54:45] question that I want to leave people
[01:54:48] with as we get into the last part of
[01:54:49] this conversation.
[01:54:51] you say that like uh so when Epstein was
[01:54:53] was convicted in 2000 that that the the
[01:54:57] 2000's case this was in the newspapers.
[01:54:59] This was not something you know you
[01:55:00] might if you were watching the football
[01:55:02] game you might not have ever heard about
[01:55:03] it but if you were a wealthy person in
[01:55:06] Washington DC or New York City or West
[01:55:08] Palm Beach Florida you knew who Jeffrey
[01:55:10] Epstein was and you knew what had
[01:55:12] happened to him and you knew what he had
[01:55:14] done. His private plane was nicknamed
[01:55:17] the Lolita Express. Lolita is a novel
[01:55:20] written by uh NBA about a guy based on a
[01:55:23] true story actually about a guy who
[01:55:26] takes a 12-year-old girl, kidnaps her,
[01:55:27] and takes her on a kind of odyssey
[01:55:29] across the country, raping her over the
[01:55:30] course of those two years.
[01:55:31] >> It's a novel about child molestation.
[01:55:32] >> It's a no novel about child molestation.
[01:55:34] And his airplane was nicknamed the
[01:55:37] Lolita Express. It was not given that
[01:55:39] nickname by him. It was given that
[01:55:41] nickname by other people. Other people
[01:55:44] knew who this guy was. They knew what he
[01:55:45] was doing. And so the question then that
[01:55:47] I I really had to wrestle with for a
[01:55:50] long time and I have an answer that
[01:55:51] satisfies me now uh and and it relates
[01:55:55] to what you were the point you were just
[01:55:56] making about our ruling class. Um, you
[01:55:59] know, if if Tucker, if I if literally
[01:56:02] any one of my male friends or family
[01:56:04] members, any of them, if we got invited
[01:56:08] to go somewhere on some dude's plane,
[01:56:11] and you walk onto that plane and uh, as
[01:56:13] soon as you get in the air, five or six
[01:56:17] underage girls who are not related to
[01:56:19] him come out in their underwear and
[01:56:20] start offering massages.
[01:56:23] My responses to that are going to vary
[01:56:25] between like which level of criminal
[01:56:28] action am I going to take against this
[01:56:30] guy? Am I going to beat him senseless?
[01:56:31] Am I going to throw him out of this
[01:56:33] flying plane? You know, those are
[01:56:34] basically the range of outcomes in that
[01:56:36] situation. And that's true for almost
[01:56:38] everybody that almost everybody watching
[01:56:41] this knows. And so regular people hear
[01:56:43] about this and they're like they almost
[01:56:46] have trouble believing that it's
[01:56:48] possible because they don't know anybody
[01:56:49] who would have such a cavalier reaction.
[01:56:51] They don't know anybody who would
[01:56:52] >> Oh, I know a lot of people.
[01:56:53] >> Ah, so uh
[01:56:55] >> yeah,
[01:56:55] >> that's why I think it's important to go
[01:56:57] over um and I don't want to get into
[01:56:58] like the conspiracy theory side of this
[01:57:00] stuff. That that that's not as important
[01:57:02] to me, honestly. Um
[01:57:04] >> I'm sure you need to. I think we've
[01:57:06] progressed. We've been here an hour and
[01:57:08] 57 minutes and I think that from what I
[01:57:11] can tell, I'm sort of familiar not with
[01:57:13] a lot of what you said, but the
[01:57:14] framework I get. I don't think you've
[01:57:16] said anything in speculative. Have you?
[01:57:18] >> I've tried not to.
[01:57:19] >> Okay. So the story just based on
[01:57:23] available facts which are a minority of
[01:57:25] all facts about it but just what we have
[01:57:27] it's like it's a true indictment.
[01:57:30] >> You remember back when the Podesta
[01:57:31] emails came out and the whole Pizzagate
[01:57:33] thing took over the internet for a while
[01:57:35] you know every dark corner the Reddit
[01:57:37] and everything else was all this this
[01:57:39] satanic pedophile conspiracy you know
[01:57:42] etc. called Pizzagate.
[01:57:43] >> Yeah.
[01:57:44] >> Again I'm not going to get into the
[01:57:45] conspiracy theory itself. I'm just going
[01:57:46] to use it to raise a larger point about
[01:57:48] what we're talking about here. The
[01:57:50] interesting thing to me about that whole
[01:57:52] saga was not the idea that there's some
[01:57:55] big crazy conspiracy involving the just
[01:57:57] any of that stuff. That's just whatever.
[01:57:59] That's what the internet does with
[01:58:00] information like that. The interesting
[01:58:02] thing to me was the things that were
[01:58:05] just 100% fact, the bits and pieces of
[01:58:07] the story that they were using to
[01:58:08] construct that narrative, the pieces
[01:58:10] themselves are really interesting. One
[01:58:11] of the first things that came up uh as
[01:58:14] people started digging into those on
[01:58:15] Reddit and everywhere else and really
[01:58:17] going into it, one of the things is uh
[01:58:19] everybody remembers hearing about spirit
[01:58:21] cooking. You know, the performance
[01:58:22] artist Marina Abramovich um did this
[01:58:25] event that the Podestas were invited to
[01:58:27] and apparently enjoyed very much called
[01:58:29] Spirit Cooking. And uh what Pretell is
[01:58:31] spirit cooking, Tucker? It it was a
[01:58:34] performance art piece, a dinner event
[01:58:37] where the attendees would go and uh sit
[01:58:40] in rooms with white walls and eat meals
[01:58:44] off of mock corpses in tubs of blood
[01:58:48] with weird creepy messages about cutting
[01:58:51] the finger on your left hand and eating
[01:58:53] the pain and drinking fresh breast milk
[01:58:55] with fresh sperm milk on earthquake
[01:58:58] nights. all these crazy edge lord art
[01:59:00] school, you know, things that are kind
[01:59:02] of just embarrassing. But, you know,
[01:59:04] these weird cryptic sayings written in
[01:59:05] goats blood on the walls. In one room,
[01:59:08] there's an effigy of an infant with a
[01:59:10] bucket of goat's blood thrown all over
[01:59:11] it. There's another room where there's a
[01:59:13] bunch of shelves with little figures put
[01:59:15] in positions of various positions of
[01:59:18] culation. Um, you know, there's photos
[01:59:21] from these events that Abramovich would
[01:59:23] put on. Uh, you know, Lady Gaga's there
[01:59:25] eating off of one of these mock corpses.
[01:59:27] Gwen Stefani's at one of them and you
[01:59:30] know they're there at these places where
[01:59:33] um you know forget about you know people
[01:59:34] want to say oh this is a satanic ritual.
[01:59:36] Forget about all that. Forget about all
[01:59:37] that. Just think about like if this was
[01:59:39] your friend or your brother or your
[01:59:40] sister and they went to this thing you'd
[01:59:42] be or if they brought you to this thing
[01:59:43] you'd be like what are we doing here?
[01:59:46] What is this exactly? Right? And so the
[01:59:48] next thing that came out
[01:59:50] >> wouldn't she run immediately
[01:59:52] >> again? You would. I would. Everybody we
[01:59:54] know would. Everybody listen.
[01:59:56] >> And Tony and Heather Podesta went to
[01:59:57] this.
[01:59:58] >> Mhm. And well, I don't know if Heather
[01:59:59] did or not, but he and John did. And uh
[02:00:02] so Tonyy's a a big art collector.
[02:00:04] >> Oh, I'm aware. Okay.
[02:00:05] >> Yeah, I knew his wife.
[02:00:06] >> Yeah. And his uh his art collection
[02:00:08] became a big part of the whole pizza.
[02:00:10] >> This is like right in my neighborhood,
[02:00:11] by the way, where I live. So,
[02:00:13] >> which is so weird,
[02:00:14] >> you know, uh Tony Podesta's taste in art
[02:00:17] became a big part of that whole pizza
[02:00:18] gate story. And it's one of those things
[02:00:19] that again when you when you have uh
[02:00:22] gaps to fill in a story and just pieces
[02:00:24] of information, you're not getting any
[02:00:25] explanations from anybody that make any
[02:00:27] sense explaining to you in a way that's
[02:00:29] plausible. That's how conspiracy
[02:00:31] theories grow. Like mold, right?
[02:00:32] >> If something like that is going on in
[02:00:34] your city, if like some of the most
[02:00:35] powerful people in your city are
[02:00:36] participating in something like that,
[02:00:38] >> I don't need to know anymore. Yeah. I
[02:00:40] literally don't need to know anymore.
[02:00:41] Like that's just there was I told you
[02:00:43] earlier that I um I I made the point of
[02:00:45] going and buying the copy of
[02:00:47] Architectural Digest in Washington Life
[02:00:48] magazine that profiled his apartment and
[02:00:50] his art collection
[02:00:52] >> and on the walls in the photographs in
[02:00:55] these magazines. Okay. Uh there's a lot
[02:00:59] of different art there, but like the
[02:01:00] most prominent ones that are one's a
[02:01:02] mural size centerpiece of a room. The
[02:01:04] others are poster size like big
[02:01:06] important prominent pieces that he's got
[02:01:07] out for everybody to see. Um are are by
[02:01:10] a Serbian artist named Billana Gjvich.
[02:01:14] And they're part of a series of
[02:01:15] paintings that according to the artist's
[02:01:18] uh own interviews are based on
[02:01:20] explorations of child molestation,
[02:01:22] sexual sexual assault and and just
[02:01:24] childhood trauma and abuse in general.
[02:01:27] And it is uh you know um well there are
[02:01:30] a lot of paintings in the series but the
[02:01:31] ones that show up in the magazine piece
[02:01:33] for example one the great big mural one
[02:01:35] is a bunch of young girls they look like
[02:01:38] maybe teenagers 12-year-olds or
[02:01:40] something who are lying in a circle.
[02:01:42] It's called synchronized swimming is the
[02:01:43] name of the painting lying in a circle
[02:01:46] um in at the bottom of like a like a
[02:01:48] tiled room or something. and they all
[02:01:49] have this spaced out kind of dead
[02:01:52] drugged out look in their eyes and some
[02:01:54] of them have black eyes and they're just
[02:01:56] sort of playing there and so um
[02:01:58] >> I don't want to be ruled by people like
[02:01:59] this.
[02:01:59] >> Well, so let me just keep cuz this gets
[02:02:01] so much worse.
[02:02:02] >> Oh, you're upsetting me cuz I lived in
[02:02:04] this world for so long and I
[02:02:05] intentionally ignored this and I but now
[02:02:08] that you are describing it, I'm like I
[02:02:10] can't even believe I was in the same
[02:02:12] county as people like that. I would look
[02:02:16] if I w if I was into uh art that
[02:02:20] featured tied up pubescent ch
[02:02:23] preubescent children in their underwear
[02:02:25] by an artist uh that that says this is
[02:02:28] all about child sexual assaults what
[02:02:30] this series of paint of paintings is
[02:02:32] about. If I was into that I would at
[02:02:36] least take it all down before company
[02:02:38] came over. These were rooms that he
[02:02:40] threw his parties in. He invited people
[02:02:41] over to. I would definitely take them
[02:02:44] down before architectural
[02:02:45] >> digest but if you were into them like
[02:02:47] being let me just be clear being into
[02:02:49] something like that means that you are
[02:02:52] on an evil path that's that's evil I
[02:02:54] don't know what to say like an image
[02:02:56] like that it's it's also obvious now
[02:02:58] that I have distance from it that's bad
[02:03:00] >> he was asked in an interview about some
[02:03:02] of his favorite artists one of them that
[02:03:04] he he listed was a woman named Patricia
[02:03:06] Pichanini who does I guess sculptures
[02:03:08] you would say I don't know if they're
[02:03:09] clay sculptures whatever but and There
[02:03:11] are really grotesque uh images of, you
[02:03:15] know, a small girl standing up on her
[02:03:17] bed, maybe five years old, with this
[02:03:19] demon thing with its claws around her
[02:03:21] kind of learing at her. There's one with
[02:03:23] this sort of weird pig monster spooning
[02:03:25] this little boy in his bed with pules on
[02:03:27] its back. There's a lot of mouths that
[02:03:30] look like
[02:03:31] >> sphincters and vaginas and the kids are
[02:03:34] playing with them. It's all very
[02:03:35] suggestive, weird, surrealist horror
[02:03:37] movie kind of sexually uh tint slanted
[02:03:41] stuff. Listed her as one of his favorite
[02:03:43] artists. Another one that he listed was
[02:03:44] a woman named Kim Noble. And I I'll stop
[02:03:46] grossing you out with
[02:03:47] >> You're upsetting me and because you're
[02:03:49] describing Tony Podesta, who is the, you
[02:03:52] know, brother of the former White House
[02:03:53] chief of staff, two-time chief of staff,
[02:03:54] John Podesta. Um but Tony Podesta is the
[02:03:58] most powerful Democratic lobbyist in
[02:03:59] Washington. This is not some fringe
[02:04:00] character. It's not a homeless guy, not
[02:04:02] even some like eccentric rich guy. This
[02:04:05] is a person who's at the center of the
[02:04:07] democratic establishment in the city
[02:04:09] >> for my whole life there.
[02:04:11] >> Yeah.
[02:04:11] >> And his wife is, you know, they've since
[02:04:14] divorced, but she's like,
[02:04:17] >> I mean, look, pull up a picture of those
[02:04:19] two on Google and just look at it and
[02:04:21] ask yourself, is that like how
[02:04:24] brainwashed would you have to be not to
[02:04:25] see there's something really wrong
[02:04:26] there? Really wrong. Like deeply wrong,
[02:04:28] spiritually wrong. I'm not trying to be
[02:04:30] judgmental or cruel. I'm just I don't
[02:04:32] understand how that could exist at the
[02:04:33] very center of power in Washington DC.
[02:04:36] That's like a I just feel it so deeply
[02:04:38] since.
[02:04:39] >> But this gets to the to the question
[02:04:40] that we're trying to answer here. Like
[02:04:42] so another artist that he named as one
[02:04:43] of his favorites was a British woman
[02:04:45] named Kim Noble.
[02:04:48] And I don't think I could pull it up on
[02:04:51] my phone and show that to the audience
[02:04:52] right now without getting this video
[02:04:54] banned. Kim Noble was a woman who was
[02:04:56] violently sexually assaulted countless
[02:04:59] times between the ages of one and three.
[02:05:02] >> Oh, come on.
[02:05:03] >> It shattered her mind. She has a
[02:05:05] dissociative identity disorder, what we
[02:05:07] used to call multiple personality
[02:05:09] disorder. And several of these
[02:05:10] personalities are artists and they the
[02:05:14] the art is something that like a four or
[02:05:15] fiveyear-old would do. It's scribbled
[02:05:17] stick figures and everything, but it is
[02:05:19] the most
[02:05:21] grotesque depictions of adults sexually
[02:05:24] abusing children that you can think of.
[02:05:26] However bad you think it is, it's worse.
[02:05:28] And so, and this was another woman that
[02:05:30] that that was named as that he was a fan
[02:05:32] of. And so, I just think to myself of
[02:05:34] this millionaire lobbyist in DC and his
[02:05:37] friends standing,
[02:05:38] >> the biggest Democratic lobbyist
[02:05:39] >> saying, uh, you know, what do you think
[02:05:41] about uh the artist Kim Noble? I was
[02:05:43] like, "Oh, I think the, you know, the
[02:05:45] image with the demon having the little
[02:05:47] girl filating her while another demon
[02:05:49] urinates on her is just fascinating and
[02:05:51] its use of color." I mean, it's what you
[02:05:55] just who are these people?
[02:05:56] >> Well, so that's what I didn't
[02:05:57] understand. So, I at the time living
[02:06:00] near the in the middle of all this, I
[02:06:02] live right down the road from Comet
[02:06:03] Pizza. I knew David Brock and James
[02:06:06] Elephantis and I'm not well, but like
[02:06:08] they're in the I disapproved. They're
[02:06:11] liberals. They're Democrats. Whatever.
[02:06:12] I'm not going to have dinner with them.
[02:06:14] But I assumed the art stuff and I knew
[02:06:16] the Podestas. I assumed that was just
[02:06:18] like douchy, pretentious. They're like
[02:06:22] townies. They don't, you know, they made
[02:06:23] all this money. They're pretending to be
[02:06:25] sophisticated.
[02:06:27] They're they have terrible taste. Of
[02:06:28] course, this is like my thinking, my
[02:06:30] I'll just admit it kind of snobbish view
[02:06:32] of it. Like gh I didn't or couldn't or
[02:06:36] refuse to or whatever face the obvious
[02:06:38] reality that's just hitting me right
[02:06:39] now, right in the face hard. That's
[02:06:42] evil.
[02:06:44] >> That's just evil. And what I thought was
[02:06:46] goch
[02:06:47] >> is satanic in a strictly speaking. I
[02:06:51] mean, whether they were like, you know,
[02:06:52] part of some organized church of Satan
[02:06:53] or whatever, I don't even know if that
[02:06:54] exists in real life, but certainly
[02:06:57] obedience to Satan exists and that's
[02:06:58] what that is.
[02:07:00] >> And period,
[02:07:00] >> the and and and maybe just as
[02:07:02] interesting because that's just one
[02:07:03] person. There's a lot of people who have
[02:07:05] strange proclivities and weird
[02:07:07] interests, right? Fine.
[02:07:08] >> But he's at the center of the city. A,
[02:07:10] he's at the center of power, but B,
[02:07:11] again,
[02:07:13] >> what is the culture of this place that
[02:07:15] he would feel comfortable inviting
[02:07:17] magazine photographers over to take
[02:07:19] pictures to take photographs of the
[02:07:22] paintings he puts in his rooms of
[02:07:24] There's one of the paintings that he has
[02:07:25] by Bill Gavich that is just unmistakably
[02:07:29] two dead little girls lying on their
[02:07:31] backs in like a pond or a lake or
[02:07:33] something. Just no question that that's
[02:07:35] what it is. It's in the magazine. And
[02:07:37] so, uh,
[02:07:38] >> by the way, people are they I I may be
[02:07:39] misremembering this and don't don't sue
[02:07:42] me, Heather Podesta, if I'm wrong, but
[02:07:43] I'm pretty sure Heather Podesta told me
[02:07:46] to my face that they had another house
[02:07:48] just for the art. I think I
[02:07:50] >> he supposedly owns 5,000 pieces of art.
[02:07:52] Something
[02:07:53] >> Okay, so but that means like, okay, so
[02:07:55] why do you have a house? So, you can
[02:07:56] invite people over. So, that's like my
[02:07:58] neighbors. I never went, but I was never
[02:08:00] invited. But that means like a lot of
[02:08:02] people I know went over to the Podesta's
[02:08:05] house and saw paintings of demons having
[02:08:08] sex with dead children or whatever. I
[02:08:10] can't even let that into my head.
[02:08:12] >> And they're like, "Yeah, you know, kind
[02:08:13] of kind of far out, kind of funky, you
[02:08:15] know, they're sort of edgy, the
[02:08:16] Podestas, it's like,
[02:08:17] >> yeah,
[02:08:18] >> check yourself, dude. Right.
[02:08:20] >> This is hell."
[02:08:20] >> When you ask the question of how is it,
[02:08:22] and this is something that ordinary
[02:08:23] people really need to understand because
[02:08:26] this is not the first ruling class that
[02:08:28] this has happened to. happened to ruling
[02:08:29] classes throughout the world throughout
[02:08:31] history.
[02:08:31] >> This is Vimar Caligula.
[02:08:33] >> Yes, it's the British gentry in the late
[02:08:35] 18 early 1900s when they're all into
[02:08:37] Alistister Crowley and all that
[02:08:38] >> 100%. It's white mischief in Nairobi in
[02:08:40] 1925. This is late empire.
[02:08:43] >> Uh you know the fact that you know we
[02:08:45] asked the question how is it that every
[02:08:47] single person I know that you know that
[02:08:49] everybody listening to this knows and
[02:08:51] allows into their life would run
[02:08:53] screaming off of that airplane when six
[02:08:55] underage girls in their underwear come
[02:08:56] out. The answer is, well, if you just
[02:08:58] came from a spirit cooking dinner and
[02:09:00] followed up by a party at Tony Podesta's
[02:09:02] house where there's pictures of tied up
[02:09:04] dead eight-year-olds all over the wall,
[02:09:06] um, and then you go onto that plane,
[02:09:10] you know,
[02:09:11] >> I can I can vouch I can vouch for that.
[02:09:13] I just never went on the plane. I never
[02:09:15] went to the Podesta's house, but boy,
[02:09:17] did I live in a world of people who did.
[02:09:20] And not one time in 35 years in DC did
[02:09:23] anybody say, "Holy [ __ ] I was at Tony's
[02:09:25] house last night. you should see what's
[02:09:26] in there. They were like, "Oh, is douchy
[02:09:29] art."
[02:09:29] >> I mean, look, you would get kicked off
[02:09:31] of a local school board for having
[02:09:32] pictures of tied up dead eight-year-olds
[02:09:35] on your wall. And so, if you were going
[02:09:36] to say
[02:09:37] >> also, what's happening to your society?
[02:09:38] This is the seat of power. Like, it
[02:09:39] values flow downward.
[02:09:41] >> It's like the top of the pyramid.
[02:09:42] >> If there's some freak down the block
[02:09:44] who's just into weird stuff, whatever.
[02:09:46] You might tell your kids to avoid that
[02:09:47] house and everything, but fine. This is
[02:09:48] America. We interpret, at least until
[02:09:50] Israel attacked Gaza, we interpreted the
[02:09:52] First Amendment pretty broadly. Um,
[02:09:55] things like that. Most people still do
[02:09:56] fine. I'm maybe not calling for that
[02:09:58] guy's arrest or anything. You can go be
[02:09:59] a freak in his own house,
[02:10:02] but you're not participating in the
[02:10:05] conversation or in the decision-making
[02:10:07] process of whether we do gender
[02:10:08] reassignment surgeries on
[02:10:10] eight-year-olds when you have pictures
[02:10:12] of dead, tied up eight-year-olds on your
[02:10:14] wall. And I think most ordinary people,
[02:10:16] and I think people who are in the
[02:10:17] Washington world and in a lot of these
[02:10:18] elite circles, they just don't get how
[02:10:20] this looks to the rest of the
[02:10:22] >> Well, it's not just how it looks. It's
[02:10:23] how it is. And you know that kind of
[02:10:28] thinking allows you to kill a lot of
[02:10:31] people which they do. And so they have
[02:10:33] these conversations about we need to do
[02:10:35] this or do that. What you really mean is
[02:10:37] drop bombs on kids which they do
[02:10:40] >> continuously
[02:10:41] >> and no one even mentions it. So the
[02:10:44] acceptance of violence against civilians
[02:10:47] I've only started to realize this since
[02:10:48] I left. It's been 5 years and I'm like
[02:10:52] that is I mean maybe there's a
[02:10:53] circumstance where you need to go full
[02:10:55] Dresden on somebody. Let's talk about
[02:10:56] it. But they don't talk about it. It's
[02:10:58] just like well we're going to you know
[02:10:59] we're going to bomb the Houthies and
[02:11:00] like open the shipping lanes. What does
[02:11:02] that mean? Nobody cares.
[02:11:04] >> Yeah. I mean
[02:11:05] >> because they have a they have a total
[02:11:07] acceptance of killing people. One of the
[02:11:10] reasons I left the Department of Defense
[02:11:12] um you know I used to work on air and
[02:11:13] ballistic missile defense systems for a
[02:11:15] long time with the DoD and uh I would go
[02:11:17] all over the world work with our allies
[02:11:19] work on American base and I go on to
[02:11:21] American ships on deployment with them
[02:11:23] sometimes when they were in hotspots so
[02:11:24] that they had like a real expert on in
[02:11:26] case something bad happened with one of
[02:11:28] their defense systems. And a lot of
[02:11:30] times I'd be on a little destroyer and I
[02:11:33] I don't think I'm divulging any
[02:11:34] classified information here or anything.
[02:11:36] And honestly, like with something like
[02:11:37] this, like I I just I don't I don't
[02:11:38] particularly care. I guess nobody ever
[02:11:40] told me not to talk about it. But uh
[02:11:42] when the Saudi war and UAE war on Yemen
[02:11:44] was going on and every day you're
[02:11:46] reading in the paper of kids literally
[02:11:48] starving to death, of kids dying of very
[02:11:52] preventable, very treatable diseases by
[02:11:54] the tens of thousands on a regular
[02:11:56] basis.
[02:11:57] >> And we would be interdicting smugglers
[02:11:59] coming from Baluchistan and other places
[02:12:01] trying to come in and out of Yemen. you
[02:12:03] know, we'd stop their dows in small
[02:12:04] boats and we'd, you know, board them and
[02:12:06] search them and so forth. And when this
[02:12:07] was going on, I wasn't a part of the
[02:12:09] crew. I was a civilian Department of
[02:12:10] Defense employee. And um but I go out on
[02:12:13] deck and I'd kind of watch these things
[02:12:14] go down. And I can't tell you how many
[02:12:17] times eventually it was one too many
[02:12:19] times. I would read one of those stories
[02:12:21] about what was going on in Yemen and
[02:12:23] then we're, you know, uh, 100 miles off
[02:12:25] Yemen, stopping a boat that's coming
[02:12:28] into that country that has nothing on it
[02:12:30] but medicine and watching everybody dump
[02:12:32] it into the ocean. And then everybody
[02:12:36] kind of celebrating like we just won
[02:12:38] another big victory, you know, and it
[02:12:40] got to the point where again it was just
[02:12:42] one too many times. I couldn't sleep at
[02:12:43] night. It was a big factor of why I left
[02:12:45] the job. It's just um and and and and I
[02:12:48] want to be very clear. I don't indict
[02:12:50] the sailors who were carrying out the
[02:12:52] mission. When you're in the culture, I
[02:12:53] mean, you're part of the military. It's
[02:12:54] hard to describe to outsiders, but these
[02:12:56] were these are guys who thought they
[02:12:57] were fulfilling their patriotic
[02:12:58] >> duty. I get it. But there's not a strong
[02:13:00] Christian vibe in that environment.
[02:13:02] >> Not exactly. Yeah. that's not too
[02:13:04] welcome uh when you're asking people to
[02:13:06] throw medicine in the water that's on
[02:13:07] its way to a country where kids are
[02:13:09] dying of diarrhea, you know, and um so
[02:13:12] that that moral compromise, you know,
[02:13:14] the idea that the the answer to that
[02:13:16] question of how could Jeffrey Epstein
[02:13:18] when everybody knew, everybody in elite
[02:13:20] circles knew what he had done, why is
[02:13:24] anybody accepting an invitation to go
[02:13:26] hang out with this guy? Why is anybody
[02:13:28] flying on the Lolita Express? What like
[02:13:30] any of these things? And the answer I
[02:13:32] think again is uh you're talking about a
[02:13:35] moral environment that is very different
[02:13:37] from the one there was a there was a
[02:13:39] article in the New York Times several
[02:13:40] years ago about this French author named
[02:13:41] Gabriel Matzenev. This really like there
[02:13:43] was one line in it that really shed a
[02:13:45] lot of light on this for me. Um Je uh uh
[02:13:48] Gabriel Matzenev was a French author,
[02:13:50] very famous, had a had a um column in
[02:13:52] Leond, I think, famous novelist. And all
[02:13:55] of his books, all of them uh were novels
[02:13:58] about pedophilia and painted in like a a
[02:14:01] very positive way, you know. Um the the
[02:14:05] book that kind of broke him through was
[02:14:06] called Under 16 Years Old and they're
[02:14:08] all graphic depictions of pedophile.
[02:14:10] That's the name of the book.
[02:14:11] >> Yeah. And um eventually he gets busted
[02:14:15] and he doesn't deny anything that he did
[02:14:18] when he's going through the criminal
[02:14:20] justice process and everything, but he
[02:14:21] is really really angry because he's like
[02:14:24] who do you I could name names right now
[02:14:27] that would bring this whole place down?
[02:14:28] Are you kidding me? Like you're going to
[02:14:30] put this on just me? And one of the
[02:14:33] things that they said in that New York
[02:14:35] Times story is they said in France, but
[02:14:38] I would say this is again common. And
[02:14:40] this isn't this isn't unique to France.
[02:14:42] The uh the ruling class or the elite
[02:14:45] classes have for a long time
[02:14:47] distinguished themselves from ordinary
[02:14:50] people by their adherence to a different
[02:14:53] code of morality
[02:14:54] >> of course
[02:14:55] >> and
[02:14:55] >> the marquee assad.
[02:14:57] >> Yes. And that becoming like a mark of
[02:14:58] distinction because look like I am one
[02:15:00] of the most powerful pe I'm the most
[02:15:02] powerful Democrat politician in the
[02:15:04] country.
[02:15:06] I can invite other people who in their
[02:15:09] worlds are powerful. I can invite them
[02:15:11] over to my house and have them walk by
[02:15:13] my paintings of dead little girls and
[02:15:15] they're going to go home smiling. That's
[02:15:16] what I can do. And then you think of a
[02:15:18] guy like Jeffrey Epstein who takes it
[02:15:20] one step further and says, "I wonder
[02:15:21] what else I could get away with." You
[02:15:23] know?
[02:15:23] >> Yeah. I had one of the most interesting
[02:15:24] conversations I've ever had. I had with
[02:15:26] a very spiritually attuned, very smart
[02:15:29] friend of mine and I was saying, you
[02:15:30] know, I'm a man and I I hate lying and I
[02:15:34] just want to be honest about it. there
[02:15:35] people do, you know, bad sexual stuff
[02:15:38] and I I don't but you could I don't
[02:15:40] judge that much because you're like, h,
[02:15:42] you know, we're all in the wrong
[02:15:44] circumstance capable of anything. But I
[02:15:46] said to this person, I don't get the
[02:15:48] like underage girl thing. That's like
[02:15:50] they're not into it. They're kids. Maybe
[02:15:52] I have too many kids or something. I'm
[02:15:54] just I'm not being selfish. I'm just
[02:15:55] being honest. I just don't get that. I
[02:15:56] don't see any appeal at all.
[02:15:57] >> It's a pathological obsession. I mean,
[02:15:59] Epstein was into girls with braces
[02:16:01] specifically.
[02:16:02] >> Exactly. So, what is that? And the
[02:16:05] conventional explanation is maybe I'm
[02:16:07] being too honest, but I think it's I
[02:16:09] think this is really revealing because
[02:16:11] it's not about sex. It's a spiritual
[02:16:13] thing. And I said, "What is that?" And
[02:16:16] this friend of mine said,
[02:16:18] >> "It's the thrill of destroying
[02:16:19] innocence. That's what it is."
[02:16:21] >> Yeah.
[02:16:22] >> And that is the definition of evil. That
[02:16:24] is Satan right there. It's taking
[02:16:25] something pure. I guess this is maybe
[02:16:27] I'm the only person who never thought of
[02:16:28] this.
[02:16:28] >> Maybe you have already have. I had not
[02:16:30] thought of that. I was like, "It's not
[02:16:31] just a sexual attraction." Like, "Oh, I
[02:16:33] think you know, underage girls with
[02:16:34] braces are hot." They're not. No person
[02:16:37] thinks that. That's bizarre.
[02:16:39] No, the idea is that I'm destroying
[02:16:42] something that's pure.
[02:16:44] >> Yeah. And throughout history,
[02:16:45] >> well, that's just that's Satan acting.
[02:16:46] Sorry.
[02:16:47] >> Throughout history, people have looked
[02:16:48] at that as something that confers power.
[02:16:49] That's what child sacrifice.
[02:16:51] >> Exactly.
[02:16:51] >> You know, and um where people get that
[02:16:55] idea, I don't know, but it's apparently
[02:16:56] deeply ingrained enough.
[02:16:58] >> It's not an idea. It's a spiritual
[02:17:00] reality and it's like the core of the
[02:17:02] Christian message where
[02:17:04] >> you know Satan says during at the end of
[02:17:05] the 40 days of temptation of Christ you
[02:17:07] know we
[02:17:08] >> bow down before me I'll give you all
[02:17:09] this power and that's clearly the
[02:17:11] arrangement which is explicit or not but
[02:17:14] it's real not nonetheless between
[02:17:17] leaders when they when they kill in a
[02:17:20] wanting way which most of them do and
[02:17:22] when they destroy beauty and innocence
[02:17:25] you're doing that in exchange for power
[02:17:27] and it is a real trade like that's all
[02:17:29] real. It's totally real. You do become
[02:17:31] more
[02:17:31] >> powerful.
[02:17:31] >> And in a way, the Epstein of the world,
[02:17:34] the people who are just really
[02:17:35] pathological, you know, everybody kind
[02:17:37] of knows and accepts that there are
[02:17:39] Jeffrey Domers out there. There are just
[02:17:40] people who have broken minds who do
[02:17:43] things that none of us can understand. I
[02:17:45] think for me and for a lot of people,
[02:17:48] like the the more important question is
[02:17:51] how does Alex Aosta not resign in
[02:17:54] protest when he's told to drop this
[02:17:55] case? How is everybody labor secretary?
[02:17:59] >> How does every how does every every
[02:18:01] person I mean DC is the most cutthroat
[02:18:03] town in the country any they will take
[02:18:05] anything out of context if they have to
[02:18:07] to destroy you know
[02:18:09] >> and you got this guy who's literally
[02:18:10] displaying pictures of dead kids on his
[02:18:13] wall never even comes up like it's all
[02:18:14] just normal. It's all good. You say like
[02:18:17] the people that are more interesting to
[02:18:18] me are the quote unquote ordinaryish
[02:18:21] people who were going to that party and
[02:18:22] thinking that what they're what they're
[02:18:24] looking at is normal. So, let's get into
[02:18:26] some of the specifics. Uh, subsequent
[02:18:29] after Epstein gets out of his fake jail
[02:18:32] sentence in the county jail. Is that
[02:18:34] what it was? Where?
[02:18:35] >> Yeah. County jail. Yeah.
[02:18:36] >> Yeah. County jail where he's just
[02:18:37] spending the night.
[02:18:38] >> Yeah.
[02:18:38] >> Six days a week.
[02:18:40] >> Um,
[02:18:40] >> oh, and by the way, uh, the West Palm
[02:18:43] uh, rather it was a private investigator
[02:18:44] that was hired by the victim's lawyers
[02:18:46] who was watching him during that period
[02:18:47] of time. Uh, he would go all sorts of
[02:18:50] places, you know, and even after his
[02:18:52] jail, it was supposed to be two years,
[02:18:53] he served 13 months. After that, he was
[02:18:55] on probation. He was on probation. He's
[02:18:57] supposed you're supposed to report all
[02:18:58] your travels. He would leave the
[02:19:00] country. He would go to Paris. He would
[02:19:01] go to the Virgin Islands. He would leave
[02:19:03] the state. They documented him doing
[02:19:05] this. They would go to the authorities,
[02:19:06] these private investigators and lawyers,
[02:19:08] and say, "Look, we got pictures. We got
[02:19:09] this. We got that." They don't care. It
[02:19:11] was fine. Has that's unbel I mean, ask
[02:19:14] any I happen to know a lot of people who
[02:19:15] have been on parole or probation, and
[02:19:17] boy, they're very afraid of violating it
[02:19:20] because you wind up back in a halfway
[02:19:21] house or in prison. but he wasn't afraid
[02:19:23] at all. So, has anyone ever been
[02:19:25] punished for that? That seems even that
[02:19:28] seems on par with the sex stuff like as
[02:19:30] a crime. If you're a public official
[02:19:34] entrusted with upholding our system of
[02:19:36] law and you ignore it for whatever
[02:19:38] reason on Epstein's behalf, like you
[02:19:40] should be punished for that. Has anyone
[02:19:41] ever been punished?
[02:19:42] >> Um, yeah. You know, um the the excuse
[02:19:44] that I was just following orders only
[02:19:46] stops working when you lose the war. You
[02:19:48] know it as long as that doesn't happen
[02:19:51] then that excuse holds up. You know you
[02:19:53] everybody passes it to the person
[02:19:54] upstairs
[02:19:55] >> that deep
[02:19:55] >> and eventually gets to a level that that
[02:19:58] person has enough juice to just shut the
[02:20:00] question down altogether. You know
[02:20:01] >> say that again the excuse I'll say it
[02:20:03] for you. The excuse that I was just
[02:20:05] following orders only stops working when
[02:20:07] you lose the war.
[02:20:08] >> Yeah. Yeah. So, as long as your party or
[02:20:13] culture organization or whatever it is,
[02:20:16] the structure, the power structure, as
[02:20:17] long as you're still in power, you never
[02:20:19] have to answer these questions cuz like
[02:20:20] who's going to make you?
[02:20:21] >> Yeah. And don't underestimate the
[02:20:22] >> It's kind of what we're facing right
[02:20:23] now. Don't underestimate the ability of
[02:20:25] the human mind to uh like if you are an
[02:20:29] ordinary person who joined the
[02:20:30] Department of Justice and you're a
[02:20:31] prosecutor and you're being told to drop
[02:20:33] this case against this guy who is a
[02:20:36] major predator who's harming girls on
[02:20:38] the regular. You're being told to give
[02:20:40] him to drop this case. But you're let's
[02:20:43] you're a normal person. You're a person
[02:20:44] who joined the Department of Justice to
[02:20:46] go fight crime. Gosh darn it, you know.
[02:20:48] Um but you got a family. You got tuition
[02:20:51] to pay. You got to put food on your
[02:20:53] kids' table and you got to balance all
[02:20:55] that out against whether or not you're
[02:20:57] going to be able to sleep at night. And
[02:20:58] in order for you to be able to sleep at
[02:21:00] at night, the human mind is very very u
[02:21:03] adaptable. You know, um even like minor
[02:21:06] things, I mean, for you to be able not
[02:21:08] you personally, the royal we, you know,
[02:21:10] we drive to church on Sundays and we
[02:21:12] pass under an overpass and there's a
[02:21:14] bunch of just completely destitute
[02:21:16] homeless people laying on the ground.
[02:21:18] when, you know, I think the the the
[02:21:20] right answer is like, oh, there's my
[02:21:21] church today. You know, I'm gonna go
[02:21:23] deal with this and do what I can here.
[02:21:25] That's church today. Um, but we have to
[02:21:27] tell ourselves a lot of stories to be
[02:21:29] able to just drive past that and drive
[02:21:31] home and go to breakfast and still think
[02:21:33] of ourselves as human beings. And the
[02:21:34] mind's very, very, very good at coming
[02:21:36] up with stories like that for ourselves.
[02:21:38] So like if you remember for example uh
[02:21:40] this was during the Afghanistan war
[02:21:42] there was an army captain I his name
[02:21:45] slips my mind at this point but he's
[02:21:47] hero in my book but he actually got
[02:21:49] kicked out of the army they eventually
[02:21:50] reinstated him I think but initially was
[02:21:52] disciplined kicked out of the army
[02:21:54] because he came upon an Afghan army
[02:21:56] commander or police official I can't
[02:21:58] remember which one it was uh raping a
[02:22:00] little boy and he beat the hell out of
[02:22:01] him and he got in trouble for that he
[02:22:03] got kicked out of the army for doing
[02:22:04] that and then the rest of the soldiers
[02:22:06] that went to Afghanistan and we're given
[02:22:08] standowns and told that like look this
[02:22:10] practice called bachaabazi. Yes, it's
[02:22:12] horrible. It's awful. We're not here to
[02:22:14] reform these people's culture. We've got
[02:22:16] an enemy we're trying to fight here, a
[02:22:17] counterinsurgency. If we start stepping
[02:22:19] in every time something like this
[02:22:20] happens, it's going to undermine the
[02:22:21] effort. And so you guys are just going
[02:22:24] to have to look the other way when you
[02:22:25] come across a grown man raping a little
[02:22:28] boy.
[02:22:28] >> How about no? And so, you know, it's
[02:22:31] like on one, especially when, you know,
[02:22:34] if you think back like there were
[02:22:36] instances where we sent troops to remote
[02:22:39] Afghan villages to go put down,
[02:22:40] violently put down uprisings that had
[02:22:43] happened because we told them they have
[02:22:45] to have a certain number of women on
[02:22:46] their village council and that's not
[02:22:48] their culture. And so, we're willing to
[02:22:49] alienate the local population to impose
[02:22:51] feminism on a remote village.
[02:22:54] >> But, you know,
[02:22:55] >> but child rape, that's just kind of a
[02:22:56] cultural thing. You know, the Taliban
[02:22:58] had banned that and actually had death
[02:22:59] squads roaming the country uh killing
[02:23:02] people who did it. And imagine the
[02:23:04] propaganda the Taliban were able to put
[02:23:05] out. Like we had destroyed all the poppy
[02:23:08] fields and we banned this practice of
[02:23:10] bachabazi like systematic child rape.
[02:23:12] The Americans come in, both of those
[02:23:14] things come back in force. It was a New
[02:23:15] York Times article. hilarious the way it
[02:23:17] was framed because it was an article
[02:23:19] about look at what the evil Taliban are
[02:23:21] doing where uh they were manipulating
[02:23:23] these boys who were being kept as sex
[02:23:25] slaves at police checkpoints and things
[02:23:27] and manipulating them into you know
[02:23:29] shooting their their commanders and
[02:23:30] their guards and then coming out and
[02:23:32] fighting for the Taliban manipul like I
[02:23:34] read it and I was like it sounds to me
[02:23:35] like they're liberating these boys but
[02:23:37] okay um and one of the things that it
[02:23:40] said in there is it was so widespread
[02:23:42] that they looked at like three or 4
[02:23:43] hundred police checkpoints every single
[02:23:45] one of them. Every one of them had a
[02:23:48] stable of little boys that when uh when
[02:23:51] off when when people would get hired to
[02:23:53] become an officer at a uh and get
[02:23:55] assigned to a place, they would often
[02:23:57] demand bachabazi boys at the at their
[02:24:00] checkpoints or the stations that they
[02:24:02] were assigned to as like a perk of the
[02:24:03] job. And we went along with that. And
[02:24:06] it's like, you know, and so that's how
[02:24:08] somebody at the Department of Justice or
[02:24:10] in the intelligence community can say,
[02:24:11] "Yeah, you know, this guy in his free
[02:24:13] time, he does this, he does that, but
[02:24:15] look, whatever. We're trying to fight a
[02:24:16] war. He's our moneyaunderer." And that's
[02:24:19] how they explain it to themselves.
[02:24:20] >> It's a really rotten, decadent culture,
[02:24:23] I would say, at the at the top.
[02:24:25] >> And as evidence of that, Epstein gets
[02:24:28] out of jail in 2008ish n. And then
[02:24:32] between then and 2019, so 10 or 11
[02:24:35] years, he's like roaming around.
[02:24:39] We have a records of like a lot of
[02:24:41] famous people hanging with him on his
[02:24:43] plane on the island during those years.
[02:24:45] Correct.
[02:24:46] >> Yes. Yeah.
[02:24:47] >> Like postconviction, post public
[02:24:49] humiliation,
[02:24:51] >> riding the Lolita Express. Yeah.
[02:24:53] >> But that was after
[02:24:55] >> Yeah. Everybody knew.
[02:24:56] >> And so who are those people? Can you
[02:24:57] name some?
[02:24:59] a lot of the ones that have been in the
[02:25:00] news, you know, um Bill Clinton, uh
[02:25:03] obviously wrote, I think he's on record
[02:25:05] writing Epstein's plane 26 times. Um and
[02:25:08] and just for reference on that, um one
[02:25:11] of Epstein's buddies and partners in
[02:25:13] crime was a French guy named Jean Luke
[02:25:15] Brunell who ran a modeling and talent
[02:25:17] scouting agency and used it the way that
[02:25:19] Jeffrey Epste would use Victoria's
[02:25:21] Secret. And they would also use use it
[02:25:22] together. In fact, Jeffrey Epstein
[02:25:24] provided the seed money for the for the
[02:25:25] agency and they would uh bring girls in
[02:25:27] and you use that environment to sexually
[02:25:29] abuse them and take advantage of them
[02:25:31] and uh you know he was when Jeffrey
[02:25:34] Epste was in jail for those 13 months in
[02:25:36] 13 months Jeanl visited him 70 times.
[02:25:40] Okay, he didn't ride on his plane as
[02:25:42] often as Bill Clinton did. Right? So
[02:25:44] that's just a reference point. And Jean
[02:25:46] Luke Bernell, by the way, after Epstein
[02:25:47] got arrested, immediately went into
[02:25:49] hiding and then got caught trying to
[02:25:50] cross the border to flee France, got put
[02:25:53] in jail. And I will give you one guess
[02:25:55] and one guess only. What happened to
[02:25:58] him?
[02:26:00] >> Everybody watching got it right. He
[02:26:02] hanged himself in his cell. No, he
[02:26:04] didn't.
[02:26:04] >> Yes, he did.
[02:26:06] >> Wow. How did all the people watching get
[02:26:09] that right on the first front? I am not
[02:26:11] making it up.
[02:26:12] >> I am not making it up.
[02:26:13] >> Just like Robert Maxwell killed himself.
[02:26:15] just like Jeffrey Epstein did,
[02:26:16] >> just like the DC madam.
[02:26:18] >> So, let's get to the to the sort of
[02:26:20] terminus of the story of his life, which
[02:26:23] is his death and um what do we know
[02:26:27] about that and what don't we know about?
[02:26:28] >> Yeah. So, one of one of the interesting
[02:26:30] things about the whole Epstein story is
[02:26:31] you see a lot of all all the story we've
[02:26:33] been telling tonight about uh money
[02:26:35] laundering intelligence agency
[02:26:37] connections in the 80s and 90s like a
[02:26:39] lot of that stuff is again it's a pile
[02:26:41] of circumstantial evidence but it's a
[02:26:43] big enough pile that you can really draw
[02:26:44] a pretty firm narrative with it. When
[02:26:46] you get to the say 2010s
[02:26:49] we don't have nearly as much sort of
[02:26:51] solid information on crimes being
[02:26:53] committed or high level things going on.
[02:26:55] Now, one of the things we do have is he
[02:26:57] was very very close with Ahoud Barack,
[02:26:59] former Israeli prime minister and uh and
[02:27:02] um he was the uh head of uh military
[02:27:05] intelligence for for quite a long time.
[02:27:07] In fact, he was head of military
[02:27:08] intelligence back when Jeffrey Epstein,
[02:27:11] Nanka, these people would have been
[02:27:12] operating, you know, back in in their
[02:27:14] heyday. Um he was very close with him.
[02:27:16] Uh he was photographed going into
[02:27:18] Jeffrey Epstein's house one time like in
[02:27:20] a disguise. is he stayed over for not
[02:27:23] overnight but for longer stretches for a
[02:27:25] long time. Jeffrey Epstein provided the
[02:27:28] seed money for a tech company that Ahood
[02:27:30] Barack started up with uh a bunch of
[02:27:33] guys who were veterans of unit 8200
[02:27:35] which is like the Israeli NSA basically
[02:27:37] a tech company. Um, and when Epstein was
[02:27:42] in control of the Wexner Foundation, he
[02:27:45] gave Ahoud Barack $2.3 million
[02:27:48] to write two papers. One of which
[02:27:51] apparently got written, but the other
[02:27:53] never even got written. They never asked
[02:27:54] for their money back, so just gave him
[02:27:55] $2.3 million. So, very, very tight,
[02:27:58] close, big money changing hands. Um, you
[02:28:01] know, uh, no allegations of sexual abuse
[02:28:03] or assault. There is there are victims
[02:28:05] who say that uh they were forced to have
[02:28:07] sex with Ahoud Barack but you know um I
[02:28:09] haven't vetted those those claims or
[02:28:11] anything and I don't want to make that
[02:28:13] claim. Uh but so you know uh that that's
[02:28:17] one of the things we do have but beyond
[02:28:18] that you have a lot of celebrities a lot
[02:28:20] of sort of political figures like Bill
[02:28:22] Clinton and a lot of it is sort of
[02:28:24] framed and does look like it's sort of a
[02:28:25] rehab tour. You know he's giving a lot
[02:28:27] of money away to primarily scientific
[02:28:30] causes things like that. um trying to
[02:28:32] build rebuild public goodwill
[02:28:34] essentially. And it was uh the reason he
[02:28:37] was arrested again is because the
[02:28:40] lawyers, God bless them, of a bunch of
[02:28:42] the victims from the first case, you
[02:28:44] know, they were really, really, really
[02:28:46] upset about what happened, especially
[02:28:48] the fact that, you know, it took a lot
[02:28:50] of courage for these girls to come out.
[02:28:52] The this these people were terrifying.
[02:28:54] Glain Maxwell would tell them when they
[02:28:57] tried to get away that, you know, how
[02:28:58] easy it is to get rid of a girl like
[02:29:00] you. You know, this these are the
[02:29:01] stories that the that the victims tell.
[02:29:03] They would threaten their lives. They
[02:29:04] would threaten their families. And you
[02:29:06] know, they're watching this guy get
[02:29:07] protected at the highest levels to uh
[02:29:10] they're watching him get just a nothing
[02:29:12] sentence. Um when you know, they all
[02:29:15] know what they did and the number and
[02:29:17] the case against him. And so they think
[02:29:19] it's incredibly powerful guy. They're
[02:29:21] terrified. It took a lot of courage to
[02:29:22] come out. And so when they went and cut
[02:29:24] a deal behind the backs of not only the
[02:29:25] lead prosecutor but the victims and the
[02:29:27] victim's lawyers, the thing was signed,
[02:29:29] done, deal
[02:29:33] like Alex Aosta's level even knew about
[02:29:34] it. Again, including the Department of
[02:29:37] Justice lead prosecutor.
[02:29:39] Um, they were really angry, you know,
[02:29:41] because they had been telling these
[02:29:42] girls, "Look, I know it's scary, but you
[02:29:44] got to do this and don't worry, we got
[02:29:46] this guy. He is going away for the rest
[02:29:47] of his life. You don't have anything to
[02:29:49] worry about." And then to have that
[02:29:50] happen behind their backs, they were
[02:29:51] really angry. And so they kept on the
[02:29:53] case and they said, "Look, there is
[02:29:55] something out there called the Victim's
[02:29:56] Rights Act. You are legally bound to
[02:29:59] inform victims when you do something
[02:30:00] like this. You did not do that. This
[02:30:02] deal you made is not valid." And
[02:30:04] eventually a federal judge found that
[02:30:06] indeed the government had engaged, these
[02:30:07] are the words of the federal judge, had
[02:30:08] engaged with in a conspiracy with
[02:30:10] Jeffrey Epstein to make this deal, this
[02:30:13] illegitimate illegal deal. And so it got
[02:30:16] stricken and that allowed him to be
[02:30:17] rearrested. And so that's why he was
[02:30:19] arrested in uh 2019 after I guess it was
[02:30:22] >> by the feds
[02:30:23] >> by the feds as he was coming back from
[02:30:24] Paris. His plane landed and uh Bill
[02:30:27] Bar's Department of Justice. Bill Bar
[02:30:29] had just taken over the Department of
[02:30:30] Justice in uh I think it was February
[02:30:32] 2019 or so right after the midterms. Um
[02:30:35] and he has him arrested and then
[02:30:37] everybody kind of knows the rough
[02:30:39] outlines story after that. He's in jail.
[02:30:42] There was the story of him being
[02:30:43] assaulted apparently in his cell by this
[02:30:46] gorilla that they put him in there.
[02:30:48] Well, you see the picture of the dude
[02:30:49] that they put him in with. He was a
[02:30:51] corrupt NYPD police officer um who was
[02:30:55] in for a double murder of two drug
[02:30:57] dealers that he was offing for another
[02:30:59] drug deal something like he's like giant
[02:31:02] bodybuilder dude just a monster of a
[02:31:04] guy. And you know, they put little
[02:31:06] Jeffrey Epstein, a guy who's, you know,
[02:31:09] for all of his evils, not a violent
[02:31:10] criminal, in a cell with that guy. That
[02:31:12] guy assaults him. And then he ends up he
[02:31:16] ends up dead under circumstances that,
[02:31:18] you know, have g been gone over again
[02:31:20] and again and they're insane and
[02:31:22] ridiculous and implausible as everybody
[02:31:25] says. I mean, for years, we were always
[02:31:26] told, this is just until very recently
[02:31:28] when they released that footage of the
[02:31:29] hallway outside his cell, that there was
[02:31:31] no footage, that all three of the
[02:31:33] cameras that uh were relevant to that
[02:31:35] area of the jail somehow uh had
[02:31:38] malfunctioned or gone out of service at
[02:31:40] the same time, and the guards who were
[02:31:42] on duty that night. Um, you know, they
[02:31:44] had fallen asleep and the pages of their
[02:31:46] log book for uh the pertinent time
[02:31:49] period somehow had gone missing and just
[02:31:51] all of these things. You're like, come
[02:31:53] on, man. like and and a lot of times
[02:31:55] people say like you know because they
[02:31:57] have this James Bond idea of you know
[02:31:59] these kind of things and they're like
[02:32:01] they would like if these were really if
[02:32:03] this was really some kind of a murder or
[02:32:05] a you know just maybe not a murder but
[02:32:07] uh Jeffrey Epstein was told you know um
[02:32:11] the best course of action for you is if
[02:32:13] you go ahead and commit suicide now um
[02:32:16] you know the other options we're giving
[02:32:18] you are way way worse the guards are
[02:32:20] going to be off you know sleeping for a
[02:32:21] little while so take care of yourself
[02:32:23] whatever it was. Um,
[02:32:27] you know, like uh you have you have this
[02:32:30] set of circumstances that's entirely
[02:32:32] implausible and you have pretty much
[02:32:33] everybody who knew him, including his
[02:32:35] lawyers, you know, his lawyers
[02:32:36] immediately and still to this day, as
[02:32:37] far as I know, make the point. They're
[02:32:39] like, look, this was a guy who whose
[02:32:41] hubris was off the charts. He had
[02:32:43] already gotten away with this once. He
[02:32:47] was now uh under arrest with a president
[02:32:50] that you know um you know I think
[02:32:53] personally uh we'll see what what
[02:32:55] happens. You know I don't I just don't
[02:32:57] personally buy into uh the accusations
[02:33:01] of Trump having to do with Epstein. Just
[02:33:03] doesn't doesn't strike me as uh the
[02:33:06] personality type that would do that uh
[02:33:07] that kind of thing. Um but you know
[02:33:09] there are pictures of him out there.
[02:33:10] There was a relationship out there that
[02:33:12] maybe could kind of be leveraged doesn't
[02:33:14] want embarrassment. There were, in other
[02:33:15] words, there were strings to pull. Like,
[02:33:17] it wasn't as if his appeals were
[02:33:19] exhausted and he's going off to prison
[02:33:21] tomorrow where, you know, you're going
[02:33:24] to have a bunch of boss crackers waiting
[02:33:25] for this new Jewish pedophile that just
[02:33:27] showed up and he's just going to kill
[02:33:28] himself. He had so many cards to play
[02:33:32] and he had gotten away with it before
[02:33:33] and nobody who who was close to him
[02:33:36] during that time, even including his
[02:33:37] lawyers, believes that he commit su
[02:33:38] committed suicide. Well, one lawyer I
[02:33:40] spoke to his lawyers about it and one
[02:33:43] said to me, well, he thought he was
[02:33:44] going to get out on appeal in days.
[02:33:48] So, um it's interesting that the the
[02:33:51] Bureau of Prisons Department of Justice
[02:33:53] uh has never released the names of the
[02:33:56] inmates who were in the lockup with him.
[02:33:58] He was supposedly in the cell by
[02:33:59] himself, but there were 11, I think, in
[02:34:03] that range, other inmates in the cell
[02:34:05] block, which was the maximum security
[02:34:07] cell block within the federal detention
[02:34:09] center, the MCC. We don't know who they
[02:34:11] are, and we know that a bunch were
[02:34:13] transferred out shortly after. Several
[02:34:15] were anyway. And somehow we can't know
[02:34:17] their names because HIPPA or something.
[02:34:19] I mean, it doesn't make any sense. The
[02:34:21] the guards who fell asleep were not
[02:34:23] really punished.
[02:34:25] >> Um, they lied about the tape. And most
[02:34:27] damning of all, Bill Barr
[02:34:30] participated in the cover up. I mean,
[02:34:32] flat out, you can read his memoir in in
[02:34:34] he says, "Soon as this happened, I, you
[02:34:36] know, my first concern was people would
[02:34:38] think he was murdered." Really? You're
[02:34:39] the chief law enforcement officer. You
[02:34:41] should hold open every possibility,
[02:34:43] including the most obvious, which was he
[02:34:45] was murdered. So, if your goal from the
[02:34:46] very first moment was to convince people
[02:34:48] of something you didn't know was true,
[02:34:49] you're not pursuing the truth. You are,
[02:34:51] in fact, by definition, participating in
[02:34:52] a cover up. That's my view. I'd love to
[02:34:54] know the other side of it. Bill Bar
[02:34:57] won't talk to me about it, though he's
[02:34:58] attacking me for saying it. But Bill
[02:35:00] Barr is participating in the cover up.
[02:35:01] So what the hell is that?
[02:35:03] >> Yeah. And and when again to go back to
[02:35:05] what we covered earlier, I mean with
[02:35:07] Bill Barr's history of covering things
[02:35:10] up for the intelligence community, both
[02:35:11] the Iran Contra thing as attorney
[02:35:13] general in the early 90s and as the CIA
[02:35:15] liaison, legal liaison to Congress
[02:35:17] during the Church and Pike Committee
[02:35:18] hearings. There's a history there, you
[02:35:20] know, of covering things up that have
[02:35:22] embarrassing ties to the intelligence
[02:35:23] community. And you know, one of the ways
[02:35:25] that like I don't think Bill Bar, like
[02:35:26] if he was your neighbor, I think he's
[02:35:28] probably a good neighbor. If you didn't,
[02:35:30] you know, if if he was never
[02:35:31] >> Well, I know him. I've always thought he
[02:35:32] was a super nice guy, friendly guy.
[02:35:33] >> I'm sure he's like everybody who knows
[02:35:35] him thinks he's a good man. And um you
[02:35:37] know, they're
[02:35:38] >> what matters is how you use your power.
[02:35:40] That's how you're judged. And again to
[02:35:42] go back to how people justify things to
[02:35:44] themselves, you know, um a lot of
[02:35:46] people, most people are not comfortable
[02:35:48] thinking of themselves as evil human
[02:35:50] beings or as people who are
[02:35:52] participating in doing evil. And so they
[02:35:54] tell themselves stories to make it not
[02:35:55] that way. And um
[02:35:57] >> you know, again, to me,
[02:36:00] a pervert like Jeffrey Epstein is like
[02:36:02] one small part of this story. To me, the
[02:36:04] whole the whole constellation of forces
[02:36:07] around him that kind of coalesed to
[02:36:09] protect him and confuse the issue. who
[02:36:10] to this day is still I mean when I said
[02:36:13] Jeffrey Epste has become a proxy for
[02:36:15] other things that are important. I mean
[02:36:16] I this is something if there's one
[02:36:18] message I would like if there's anybody
[02:36:19] at the White House or anywhere close to
[02:36:21] those people watching right now that
[02:36:22] they need to understand is the reason
[02:36:25] this is important to the base is not
[02:36:26] because they think there's this Jewish
[02:36:27] pedophile worked for the Israeli MSAD
[02:36:30] and they want him held. It has nothing
[02:36:31] to do with that. It's a proxy for can we
[02:36:34] hold these people accountable? Like the
[02:36:37] Donald Trump's presidency in general,
[02:36:39] >> you know, people might have favored the
[02:36:41] trade policy. Certainly, they were, you
[02:36:43] know, the immigration thing was
[02:36:44] important, all that kind of stuff. But
[02:36:45] really what it was is, man, these people
[02:36:47] have gotten so out of control and so out
[02:36:49] of touch with the rest of us and so
[02:36:51] unconcerned with what's going on with
[02:36:53] the rest of us, we just got to bring in
[02:36:56] a wrecking ball from the outside who's
[02:36:57] going to go in there and shake things up
[02:37:00] and tear this thing down. People are not
[02:37:01] listening to us because we're
[02:37:03] irrelevant.
[02:37:04] We don't have any say in our government.
[02:37:07] There is no democratic control in the
[02:37:10] United States. The population's views
[02:37:11] don't really matter. That's the feeling
[02:37:14] that people have. And this whole story
[02:37:16] that you've told for 2 hours and 37
[02:37:18] minutes confirms that they are right to
[02:37:20] be concerned because what you're
[02:37:21] describing is an pretty organized
[02:37:24] informally organized anyway force or
[02:37:27] series of forces that operate outside
[02:37:29] and above the US government and every
[02:37:32] other global government or most of them
[02:37:34] anyway. And by definition, so the US
[02:37:37] attorney, the federal prosecutor, the
[02:37:38] chief federal prosecutor in one of our
[02:37:40] biggest states is told back off and does
[02:37:43] and everybody beneath him does also. So
[02:37:46] like what is that?
[02:37:47] >> It's a force bigger than the US
[02:37:49] government. And I just think that can't
[02:37:53] continue. That can't continue. You can't
[02:37:54] have that.
[02:37:55] >> And the nature of the crime again being
[02:37:58] that one crime that if you pled
[02:37:59] Americans said, "What's the worst
[02:38:01] crime?" I think it would make the top of
[02:38:03] every list of every poll that you could
[02:38:05] run, however you worded it. The fact
[02:38:06] that that's the crime, you know, it
[02:38:09] makes it so that, you know, when they
[02:38:10] tell you we uh, you know, we we bombed a
[02:38:14] a car in Kabul and killed this family of
[02:38:17] 10, you know, during the Afghanistan
[02:38:18] withdrawal. We can't really get into all
[02:38:20] of the details because of sources and
[02:38:22] methods and this and that and so forth.
[02:38:24] People be like,
[02:38:26] okay, you know, that I don't really like
[02:38:28] that, but fine. But a child's innocence,
[02:38:31] if anything is sacred, a child's
[02:38:33] innocence is sacred. And sacred means
[02:38:35] there is no compromise with regard to
[02:38:37] that. If you have to
[02:38:41] if if if exposing the information about
[02:38:44] somebody like Jeffrey Epstein means that
[02:38:46] a Doctor Strange Love style nuclear
[02:38:48] device goes off and destroys the planet,
[02:38:50] too bad. Let justice be done even if the
[02:38:53] heavens fall on something like that.
[02:38:54] Because the crime is just it's beyond
[02:38:56] the pale. It's something that for all
[02:38:58] normal people, they say, "Whatever your
[02:39:00] excuse is, you know, national security,
[02:39:03] first of all, what does this guy who's a
[02:39:05] pedophile have to do with national
[02:39:06] security?" But whatever your excuses,
[02:39:09] >> I've wondered since day one, what does
[02:39:10] it have to do with national security?
[02:39:12] >> Yeah. What whatever it is,
[02:39:14] >> the answer is no. Okay. We have we have
[02:39:17] a a a journalist who has a source and uh
[02:39:21] this has not been refuted by the people
[02:39:23] involved saying that he belonged to
[02:39:24] intelligence. We have all these ties
[02:39:26] over the years that provide more
[02:39:27] circumstantial evidence to back that. If
[02:39:29] the US government had anything to do
[02:39:31] with this guy, if foreign governments
[02:39:33] operating on our soil had anything to do
[02:39:35] with this guy, we don't care what your
[02:39:38] excuse is. We're talking about a man who
[02:39:40] was raping children. And if our
[02:39:44] government, the people who pass laws
[02:39:45] that we have to we have to follow or
[02:39:47] else have have men with guns show up to
[02:39:49] our house and drag us off to a cage
[02:39:51] somewhere, the men who make those rules,
[02:39:53] men and women who make those rules, uh
[02:39:56] they don't this is something that we
[02:39:57] have to draw a line in the sand and say
[02:39:59] this is too far. You you are going to
[02:40:01] dump all of this and we don't care what
[02:40:02] happens. We want an explanation of what
[02:40:04] was going on here and there's just we're
[02:40:06] not going to take no for an answer on
[02:40:07] it. This is too far. It's just too
[02:40:09] emblematic. you know, it's and it's and
[02:40:11] it's too severe of a crime. And I hope
[02:40:13] that people uh I really hope that people
[02:40:16] will keep that mentality and not let
[02:40:17] this die until we get a good
[02:40:19] satisfactory answer on what was going
[02:40:21] on.
[02:40:21] >> What amen to that and everything that
[02:40:24] you have said, I think in a really
[02:40:26] measured, restrained way. I also notice
[02:40:29] about you, as I've noticed before, your
[02:40:31] total determination to see things
[02:40:33] through the eyes of the people you're
[02:40:34] talking about, whether you agree or
[02:40:35] disagree with them. you add humanity to
[02:40:38] history, which is why I value your
[02:40:40] historical analysis. I think it's it's
[02:40:42] the right way. It's the humane way. Um,
[02:40:45] my last question, and I just can't help
[02:40:47] this because I'm not as good a person as
[02:40:49] you are, but why Sumar Levin described
[02:40:52] you as a propagandist, a demagogue, say
[02:40:55] you shouldn't have a platform, you
[02:40:57] should be silenced.
[02:40:58] You know, I've listened to you now for 2
[02:41:00] hours and 40 minutes. I wonder what
[02:41:02] about what you just said would make Mark
[02:41:06] Levin call for you to be silenced and
[02:41:09] call you a criminal. I mean, here you
[02:41:11] are arguing against child molestation.
[02:41:12] You're not attacking anybody certainly
[02:41:14] on the basis of like religion or
[02:41:15] ethnicity or anything like that. You're
[02:41:16] not even attacking any governments.
[02:41:18] You're That's my read on what you're
[02:41:20] saying. Why would that your 2hour and
[02:41:24] 40minut description of this news story,
[02:41:27] why would that make someone like Mark
[02:41:29] Leven so angry? I mean, I think when you
[02:41:32] see the constellation of of commentators
[02:41:35] and personalities that have kind of
[02:41:37] immediately jumped to the side of
[02:41:39] there's nothing to see here, it's all
[02:41:40] over with. Let's drop the case.
[02:41:42] >> Um, you know, it's all the same people
[02:41:44] who were telling us we were traitors if
[02:41:45] we didn't want to bomb Iran just a few
[02:41:47] weeks ago. I know.
[02:41:48] >> And so I think, and here's the funny
[02:41:50] thing about it is I think that people
[02:41:51] like Mark, people like Ben Shapiro, a
[02:41:53] lot of these folks are actually they're
[02:41:55] afraid. They they have something like
[02:41:56] the pop understanding of what Jeffrey
[02:41:58] Epste was about in their heads and
[02:42:00] they're afraid that exposing the case
[02:42:02] will show his ties to Israeli
[02:42:04] intelligence.
[02:42:05] I actually have a much more conservative
[02:42:07] view on the whole thing than they
[02:42:08] probably do. You know, I where I don't
[02:42:11] think they have as much to be afraid of
[02:42:12] in that sense. I think he did work for
[02:42:14] Israeli intelligence, but I think he was
[02:42:15] a freelancer. He did work for the CIA,
[02:42:17] did work for a lot of intelligence
[02:42:18] agencies, probably independent
[02:42:20] criminals.
[02:42:21] >> It sounds like you're right. I mean,
[02:42:23] this is not just about I agree with you.
[02:42:25] It's clearly not just about Israel. It's
[02:42:27] about a lot. It is in part about Israel,
[02:42:29] but it's not only about Israel. It's
[02:42:30] about our government. They're the ones
[02:42:32] who covered up the freaking crimes in
[02:42:34] 2007.
[02:42:35] >> Yes.
[02:42:36] >> But that's not a problem. Like we can
[02:42:38] say that that's totally cool.
[02:42:40] >> Um it says a lot about Levin and his
[02:42:44] priorities, his reaction to this, I
[02:42:46] would say. And I would say anyone who
[02:42:47] doesn't want to get to the bottom of
[02:42:49] this like um what why
[02:42:53] >> I mean the there is no answer that's
[02:42:55] going to make sense to anybody that has
[02:42:57] sat through three hours of this
[02:42:58] conversation you know already because I
[02:43:01] you know and to me I don't think there
[02:43:02] is a good answer to that question the
[02:43:04] the we should not compromise on this you
[02:43:07] know we will get a satisfactory answer
[02:43:09] or we will burn this place down
[02:43:11] figuratively don't come knock on my door
[02:43:13] FBI but like you know that that we're
[02:43:16] not going to let this go that this is a
[02:43:17] line in the sand. You will be honest
[02:43:19] with us about this because if you can't
[02:43:23] the nature of this crime if you can't
[02:43:25] then it means that you this thing cannot
[02:43:27] be fixed that you cannot be honest with
[02:43:28] us about anything. We can't trust
[02:43:30] anything you say if you're willing to
[02:43:31] lie to us to our faces when there is so
[02:43:34] much implausible ridiculous information
[02:43:37] out there. Lie to us to our faces in
[02:43:39] such a brazen way about a guy who was
[02:43:43] raping children. Like if you'll do that,
[02:43:46] then there's just there's nothing more
[02:43:47] to talk about with the ruling class, you
[02:43:50] know?
[02:43:51] >> I can't improve on that. Uh Ger Joe
[02:43:53] Cooper, thank you. I I'm always grateful
[02:43:55] when you come. This is the second time.
[02:43:57] I hope it won't be the last. Thank you
[02:43:58] very much.
[02:43:59] >> Always a pleasure.
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