📄 Extracted Text (14,955 words)
[00:00:00] Michael, your area of specialty [music]
[00:00:01] and interest lies in fast food.
[00:00:03] >> I'm a secret fat guy. It's a scam is
[00:00:05] what I'm telling you.
[00:00:06] >> Matt Walsh show will just be called Old
[00:00:07] Man [music] Yells at Cloud.
[00:00:08] >> That's the show now. What are you
[00:00:10] talking about?
[00:00:11] >> Friends like
[00:00:13] [singing]
[00:00:15] [music]
[00:00:18] >> Welcome to Friendly Fire. We're all fat
[00:00:20] and happy after Thanksgiving. We're
[00:00:22] actually not so happy because uh the
[00:00:23] country is falling apart. Lot to get to.
[00:00:26] Obviously, the tragic shooting of two
[00:00:28] National Guardsmen just a day before
[00:00:31] Thanksgiving by an Afghan national. A
[00:00:33] lot of people asking, "Why do we have
[00:00:34] all these Afghan nationals? Why do we
[00:00:36] have all of these Somali committing
[00:00:37] fraud in Minnesota and sending their
[00:00:39] money to terrorists overseas?" What?
[00:00:41] We'll we'll get into the the big
[00:00:42] immigration question because America's I
[00:00:45] think public opinion has moved vastly to
[00:00:47] the right on this on immigration. And I
[00:00:49] give three cheers for that. Also, uh,
[00:00:52] speaking of Latin America, our Secretary
[00:00:54] of War is just zapping drug boats left
[00:00:57] and right, which is a very, very
[00:00:59] beautiful thing in my view. Now, the
[00:01:00] libs are taking the side of the narot
[00:01:02] terrorists and accusing him of war
[00:01:03] crimes. And even some on the right want
[00:01:05] to say it might be a war crime. We'll
[00:01:07] get into that. And then the most
[00:01:08] important question raised by our very
[00:01:09] own Matt Walsh. Why do restaurants suck?
[00:01:12] They didn't used to suck and now they
[00:01:13] they kind of suck. Matt's words, not
[00:01:15] mine. We'll get into all of that first
[00:01:17] though. You know what Cyber Monday
[00:01:19] means? means the best deal of the year
[00:01:21] at Dailywire. Dailywire Plus is 50% off
[00:01:24] right now. Dailywire.com/subscribe.
[00:01:28] All right, before we get to the most
[00:01:29] important question, the restaurant
[00:01:31] question. This this migration issue is
[00:01:34] is brutal and it it's it's truly you
[00:01:38] read terrible headlines all the time and
[00:01:39] I right before Thanksgiving, this was
[00:01:41] one of those stories that makes you
[00:01:44] personally very very angry and it should
[00:01:47] make you personally very very angry.
[00:01:48] these two young people, a young
[00:01:50] 20-year-old woman, 24 year old guy,
[00:01:52] National Guard in in Washington, serving
[00:01:55] their country right before the American
[00:01:57] holiday. And this Afghan national comes
[00:01:59] out and murders the woman, puts the man
[00:02:02] in critical condition. Uh this following
[00:02:05] another attempted Afghan terror attack
[00:02:07] in Oklahoma uh last year, right on
[00:02:09] election day. This after we've seen a
[00:02:12] lot of crimes being committed by these
[00:02:13] Afghan immigrants or refugees, I
[00:02:15] suppose, taken in under Joe Biden. this
[00:02:17] on top of all of the Somali in Minnesota
[00:02:20] apparently defrauding the taxpayer and
[00:02:22] sending their money to al-Shabaab. So
[00:02:24] clearly something's gone very very wrong
[00:02:26] with immigration now. President Trump
[00:02:28] talking about pausing immigration, maybe
[00:02:30] even deporting people who are ostensibly
[00:02:32] legal residents or citizens. What are we
[00:02:35] to do about it? I assume the most
[00:02:37] belligerent take will come from you,
[00:02:38] Matt. So what's what's your take?
[00:02:40] >> Yeah. Well, look, I I
[00:02:43] first on on what Trump has said. I
[00:02:44] completely agree with uh with, you know,
[00:02:46] the tweet that he put out over the
[00:02:47] weekend. Uh shut off third world
[00:02:50] immigration. You know, I've been saying
[00:02:51] that for a long time. A lot of us have
[00:02:52] been. Uh we need to look at
[00:02:54] denaturalizing. So, it's not it's not
[00:02:56] just deporting illegals, but also
[00:02:58] deporting people who are, as you say,
[00:02:59] ostensibly legal citizens. Denaturalize
[00:03:02] them. And it's not just because we don't
[00:03:04] like them. It's because they uh are
[00:03:05] committing fraud. As we know with with
[00:03:07] Somali, this is a huge problem. It's
[00:03:11] systemic problem. Uh but also they're
[00:03:13] lying when they come here. They're
[00:03:14] supposed to pledge allegiance to our
[00:03:15] country. That's part of the application
[00:03:17] process. And uh we have there's very
[00:03:19] good evidence that a lot of them just
[00:03:20] flat out lied. So they that's a form of
[00:03:22] fraud and they should be kicked out for
[00:03:23] that. The one thing I will say with with
[00:03:25] Trump though is that, you know, and this
[00:03:27] has been this has been an issue with
[00:03:28] Trump going back to the first term, is
[00:03:30] that if you're go and I think he's done
[00:03:32] a lot of great things in the second
[00:03:33] term, but if you're going to say that
[00:03:35] you're going to take these kinds of rat
[00:03:37] what I you know, quote unquote radical
[00:03:38] steps, radical in in comparison to what
[00:03:41] presidents of the past have done, if
[00:03:42] you're going to say that, then you
[00:03:43] actually have to do it. Because if you
[00:03:44] say it and then you don't do it, now
[00:03:46] it's the worst of all worlds because
[00:03:47] you're still going to get hit. you're
[00:03:48] going to get the blowback for doing it
[00:03:50] because you said you were going to do
[00:03:51] it, but you don't actually get the
[00:03:52] result of having done it. So, if you if
[00:03:55] you say it, if you throw down the
[00:03:56] gauntlet and say we're going to p we're
[00:03:58] going to shut off immigration from third
[00:03:59] world countries or we're going to
[00:04:00] denaturalize uh citizens who defrauded
[00:04:03] this country, you're going to get a lot
[00:04:04] of blowback. He's already getting it.
[00:04:06] Well, now you got to go and actually do
[00:04:07] it. And and I think this this case with
[00:04:10] the Afghans is a perfect it's it's it's
[00:04:12] it shows exactly why it needs to happen
[00:04:15] because you know it's not just as you
[00:04:17] say Michael it's we know the attacks on
[00:04:20] National Guardsmen. We know the terror
[00:04:22] attack that was that was foiled. It's
[00:04:24] not even just that. There was a there
[00:04:26] was a case in Fairfax, Virginia this
[00:04:27] year of an Afghan uh you know quote
[00:04:30] unquote refugee was pulled over uh ends
[00:04:32] up opening fire on the police officers.
[00:04:34] Fortunately none of them were killed. He
[00:04:36] was killed in the in the uh you know in
[00:04:39] the gunfire in the return fire. He he
[00:04:41] says on the body, you can go listen to
[00:04:42] the body cam we talked about on the show
[00:04:44] today. He says you it's picked up on the
[00:04:46] body cam. This Afghan refugee after he's
[00:04:48] pulled over, it was just for a traffic
[00:04:49] uh stop and he says, "You stupid white
[00:04:53] people, you let me into the country." He
[00:04:55] actually says that and then he and then
[00:04:56] he opens fire. And the reason why this
[00:04:59] kind of to me it kind of encapsulates
[00:05:01] the whole problem because why why are
[00:05:02] these people in the country in the first
[00:05:04] place, right? They're here because we're
[00:05:06] told for in in many cases that like we
[00:05:08] owe it to them and in in some cases they
[00:05:11] they worked with uh with American
[00:05:14] forces, they work with the CIA, so we
[00:05:16] owe it to them. Well, first of all,
[00:05:19] >> uh and this is the kind of thing that
[00:05:20] isn't that isn't said very often, but
[00:05:21] it's like, well, okay, so you were a
[00:05:23] turncoat um and we paid you money and
[00:05:27] you worked for us and so now we want to
[00:05:28] take you in. Well, I I guess I
[00:05:30] appreciate it, but at the same time,
[00:05:31] that actually makes me trust you even
[00:05:33] less. Uh but but second this idea that
[00:05:37] we owe it so you come here because we
[00:05:39] have some kind of debt to you. And this
[00:05:41] is kind it's the same thing with the
[00:05:42] Somali that come here. It's this it's
[00:05:43] this perverse notion that in some way
[00:05:47] like we have some kind of
[00:05:48] responsibility.
[00:05:49] >> The Somalis are even crazier. It's not
[00:05:51] like the Somali ever helped us out in a
[00:05:52] war. At least I kind of get it with the
[00:05:54] Afghanis. I don't it's it's it's the
[00:05:57] same kind of argument that well their
[00:05:59] their country is in is in tatters and
[00:06:01] and then and then an argument will be
[00:06:03] made that well American foreign policy
[00:06:05] was responsible for this and that and
[00:06:07] and uh but it's always that it's always
[00:06:09] about they're not coming here to
[00:06:10] contribute to us. They're not even
[00:06:12] pretending that that's what they're here
[00:06:13] for. The argument isn't even that
[00:06:16] they're here that we should bring them
[00:06:17] in because our country benefits. It's
[00:06:19] that it's it's they benefit from it and
[00:06:22] we should be nice and allow it and uh
[00:06:24] that just doesn't that doesn't work. It
[00:06:26] should always be as Americans. The
[00:06:28] question is what's in it for us? What's
[00:06:29] in it for our for our people, for our
[00:06:31] children? And uh uh and we don't benefit
[00:06:34] at all from bringing in a single Afghan
[00:06:36] or a single Somali. I think that's
[00:06:37] >> do we owe anything to these people?
[00:06:39] >> Um I mean I think that obviously when it
[00:06:41] comes to the Somali, the answer is no. I
[00:06:43] mean, their their country has been a
[00:06:44] trash heap for generations at this
[00:06:46] point. And the United States tried to
[00:06:47] get involved and and tried to help on a
[00:06:49] humanitarian level. And then obviously
[00:06:51] that didn't work out very well. The idea
[00:06:53] that we had to go from 2500 Somali
[00:06:55] living in the United States in 1990 to
[00:06:58] 175,000 Somali living in the United
[00:07:00] States as of today as some sort of
[00:07:02] apology for what? Us not being good
[00:07:04] enough at bringing them food is pretty
[00:07:06] insane. And obviously you have massive
[00:07:10] culture clash. You have lack of
[00:07:11] assimilation. You have mayoral races
[00:07:13] that are being divided by actual tribal
[00:07:15] loyalty in Minneapolis. That's what
[00:07:16] happened in the last mayoral race is
[00:07:18] that actually certain members of certain
[00:07:19] Somali tribes voted against candidates
[00:07:21] who are siding with other members of
[00:07:24] other Somali tribes. We don't need that
[00:07:26] sort of full-scale tribalism in the
[00:07:27] United States. We got enough problems as
[00:07:29] it is. With with regard to Afghanistan,
[00:07:31] I think it's slightly more complicated.
[00:07:33] Not that we should take in vast numbers
[00:07:34] of unvetted immigrants from Afghanistan
[00:07:37] because we screwed things up in
[00:07:39] Afghanistan. I think there's a couple of
[00:07:40] original sins. One of them, frankly, is
[00:07:42] just the pull out from Afghanistan the
[00:07:44] way Joe Biden did it. I think that that
[00:07:46] if you pull out from Afghanistan and
[00:07:47] leave no governing institutions behind,
[00:07:49] such that everybody who helped out the
[00:07:51] US Army is going to be murdered where
[00:07:53] they stand. We should find some place
[00:07:54] for them to go that's not the United
[00:07:56] States. But I do think that, you know,
[00:07:57] if we ever want to have alliances with
[00:07:59] anybody else on Earth ever again, and
[00:08:00] we're going to have to work with people
[00:08:02] against regimes that exist, then we want
[00:08:04] to find some place for some of those
[00:08:05] people to go. This this case is a little
[00:08:07] bit weird because the guy not only
[00:08:09] worked with the CIA, he was pretty well
[00:08:11] vetted when he came in in 2021 and then
[00:08:13] the Trump administration did grant him
[00:08:14] actual asylum in 2025 on the basis of
[00:08:18] that prior vetting presumably despite
[00:08:20] the fact that in 2023, we now know from
[00:08:22] the New York Post he actually had been
[00:08:24] reported by other members of his
[00:08:26] community as having mental breakdowns
[00:08:28] and he was he was depressed and he was
[00:08:30] he was going out like on these long
[00:08:31] drives, nobody knew where he was and all
[00:08:33] this kind of stuff. And so the the idea
[00:08:35] that we got from Department of Homeland
[00:08:37] Security is that actually when he came
[00:08:38] in he wasn't nearly as much of a problem
[00:08:40] as obviously he would later become and
[00:08:42] that he was radicalized. And to me this
[00:08:44] is a separate issue but both need to be
[00:08:46] dealt with. One of them is obviously why
[00:08:48] are we letting in hundreds of thousands
[00:08:49] of people from third world countries we
[00:08:50] cannot vet. And I think we all agree
[00:08:52] that's insane. And then there's the
[00:08:54] secondary issue that I think is nearly
[00:08:56] as problematic, maybe just as
[00:08:57] problematic, which is the number of
[00:08:59] terror attacks that the United States
[00:09:00] has suffered from people who are
[00:09:01] radicalized while living in the United
[00:09:04] States is really, really high. Okay,
[00:09:06] this guy, according to DHS, was
[00:09:08] radicalized after coming to the United
[00:09:09] States, after working with us. He came
[00:09:11] here, he was radicalized. But I mean, I
[00:09:13] know that we all just sort of memoryhole
[00:09:14] the fact that there have been a bunch of
[00:09:15] terror attacks on American soil by ISIS
[00:09:17] affiliates. But there have I mean this
[00:09:19] year in January you remember in New
[00:09:21] Orleans there was a terror attack that
[00:09:23] killed 14 people where a guy had like an
[00:09:25] ISIS flag on his truck and just ran
[00:09:26] people over. And we we all memory hold
[00:09:28] that. We don't remember that. The the
[00:09:30] single worst mass shooting in America to
[00:09:32] that date was the Pulse nightclub
[00:09:34] shooting. Obviously there was Vegas
[00:09:35] afterward. The Pulse nightclub shooting
[00:09:37] was a radicalized guy who was
[00:09:39] radicalized by association with ISIS.
[00:09:41] That there there was a a shooting in San
[00:09:43] Bernardino. 14 people were killed.
[00:09:44] Again, radicalized by ISIS while living
[00:09:46] in the United States. And so I think
[00:09:48] it's the combination of both of these
[00:09:49] things. One is this mass migration. You
[00:09:51] don't no you don't get to come here just
[00:09:52] because your life sucks somewhere else.
[00:09:54] Guess what? It turns out America
[00:09:55] amazing. I understand why everybody
[00:09:56] wants to get in. We have no obligation
[00:09:58] to take you in on that basis. But we
[00:10:00] also have a massive problem with
[00:10:01] institutions in the United States that
[00:10:03] pay people not to assimilate that allow
[00:10:06] them to radicalize and that foster their
[00:10:08] radicalization. I think that the biggest
[00:10:09] detail in that Somali case is that the
[00:10:11] government knew they were committing
[00:10:12] fraud. And many of these groups were
[00:10:14] going to the government and threatening
[00:10:15] to sue on the basis of discrimination if
[00:10:19] they were actually targeted by law
[00:10:20] enforcement. And the and motans went,
[00:10:22] "Oh, I guess well, if you're going to
[00:10:23] call us racist, I guess we can't do
[00:10:24] anything but let you steal a billion
[00:10:26] dollars [laughter]
[00:10:26] in taxpayer money." Unbelievable.
[00:10:28] >> You know, one of the things you're not
[00:10:29] allowed to say in this whole debate used
[00:10:31] to be you couldn't even advocate for
[00:10:33] drastically less legal immigration. Now,
[00:10:35] I think you can advocate for that. One
[00:10:37] of the things I think you're still not
[00:10:38] allowed to say though is some groups are
[00:10:41] just less good at being immigrants. And
[00:10:44] there's nothing wrong with excluding
[00:10:46] them at higher rates than other groups.
[00:10:48] You know, this is ancient wisdom goes
[00:10:51] back to Aristotle, goes through Thomas
[00:10:52] Aquinus. It wouldn't be an episode of
[00:10:54] this show if we didn't bring up those
[00:10:55] guys. But
[00:10:56] >> we're 9 minutes in, dude. You couldn't
[00:10:57] you couldn't imagine that this long
[00:10:59] dropping it like it's hot.
[00:11:01] >> You know, Aristotle makes this point and
[00:11:03] really actually I think St. Thomas does
[00:11:04] this really well. He reads the Jews in
[00:11:06] the Old Testament and he reads the the
[00:11:08] writing of Aristotle and he says look
[00:11:10] you can bring in immigrants but you have
[00:11:12] to be very very careful about it. You
[00:11:13] know the Jews in the Old Testament they
[00:11:14] did it cautiously. They did it very
[00:11:16] slowly. They wouldn't grant citizenship
[00:11:18] until three generations. He's reading
[00:11:20] Aristotle here as well. Uh you know
[00:11:22] because immigration can can reduce
[00:11:24] social solidarity. And he says the Jews
[00:11:26] in the Old Testament some people they
[00:11:28] they felt they could assimilate. Others
[00:11:30] it was a little harder. Some you know
[00:11:31] the Amalachites say you just can't let
[00:11:34] them in. And and I think what's obvious
[00:11:36] is when we talk about uh immigration,
[00:11:39] we're pretending it's all exactly the
[00:11:40] same. No, we could take any number of
[00:11:43] Englishmen into this country and they
[00:11:45] would be just fine. I don't know if
[00:11:46] there were any Englishmen left in
[00:11:47] England, as a matter of fact, but it
[00:11:49] would be fine because they speak the
[00:11:51] same language. They look roughly the
[00:11:52] same. We come from England. We roughly
[00:11:54] believe in the same religion. We have
[00:11:56] roughly the same habits. And if we want
[00:11:58] to have chicken tikka masala, guess
[00:12:00] what? It was invented in England. So
[00:12:01] that's fine. and and it's much harder to
[00:12:04] bring in Somalis or Pakistanis or
[00:12:06] Afghanis.
[00:12:07] >> You know, Michael, I'm I'm gonna argue
[00:12:09] with that on in one second because
[00:12:11] because I enjoy doing that, but also
[00:12:13] because we need a break to explain why
[00:12:15] you should help give moms and their
[00:12:17] babies a chance at life this Christmas.
[00:12:19] You have an opportunity. Picture a young
[00:12:20] woman who just found out she's pregnant
[00:12:22] when she wasn't expecting it. She's
[00:12:23] scared, maybe doesn't have much support,
[00:12:24] isn't sure what her options are. She
[00:12:26] needs someone in her corner. And that's
[00:12:27] what Preborn Ministries does. When a mom
[00:12:29] comes to pre-born and sees her baby on
[00:12:31] the ultrasound for the first time,
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[00:12:35] can do this. Pre-born is there to give
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[00:13:00] your life. Just every time you see an
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[00:13:22] >> Ben, I'm not going to let you argue with
[00:13:23] me yet. You know why? You know why, Ben?
[00:13:26] Because I want to bring you a message
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[00:14:24] fire. Okay, back to how Somali probably
[00:14:27] can't become Americans.
[00:14:28] >> Okay. So, so Michael, I was going to
[00:14:30] disagree with you. So, I I here's the
[00:14:32] only thing I'm going to disagree with
[00:14:32] you about in that. I don't think we can
[00:14:34] take in any number of English men. See,
[00:14:36] I'm actually more pessimistic about our
[00:14:38] immigration status than than you perhaps
[00:14:40] at this point. Not that I think that
[00:14:41] that it would not be easier to
[00:14:43] assimilate Englishmen than it would be
[00:14:45] to assimilate, you know, Somali, but but
[00:14:48] I but I do think that right now if you
[00:14:50] said to me, we're going to take in
[00:14:52] 100,000 Englishmen, I'd think to myself,
[00:14:54] uh-oh. Because that is a lot of people
[00:14:57] who voted for the Labor Party and Kier
[00:14:59] Starmer, meaning that the the ideology
[00:15:01] of the West has become so
[00:15:02] thoroughgoingly self-defeating that I'm
[00:15:05] not sure that this is actually a good
[00:15:06] proxy for who can assimilate to
[00:15:08] American. Frankly, I think that a lot of
[00:15:10] Americans don't hold particularly
[00:15:11] American values at this point, but they
[00:15:12] are Americans, so they get to stay. But
[00:15:14] but you know, if we're talking about
[00:15:15] whom to import and whom not to. Yeah, I
[00:15:18] agree. Obviously, not all groups are are
[00:15:20] the same in terms of assimilability,
[00:15:22] their ability to assimilate. Um, but but
[00:15:24] I I think that we may be now at the
[00:15:26] point in American history and maybe just
[00:15:28] in Western history where we can only do
[00:15:30] it on an individualized basis. That that
[00:15:32] that's all we can do.
[00:15:33] >> How do you make a policy out of that,
[00:15:34] though?
[00:15:35] >> Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, maybe you can.
[00:15:37] Maybe you can. I mean, really, like I we
[00:15:39] could have a better record than we
[00:15:40] currently have. I mean, I think that
[00:15:43] that, you know, now maybe I'm being even
[00:15:44] more restrictionist than than Matt would
[00:15:46] be on immigration, but it seems to me
[00:15:47] that pretty much every individual who
[00:15:48] comes into the country needs to make an
[00:15:50] affirmative case as to why they ought to
[00:15:52] be in the country. And we ought not do
[00:15:53] it by groups. We ought to do it just by
[00:15:54] should you be here, what are you going
[00:15:56] to offer us, and what do you what do you
[00:15:58] actually
[00:15:58] >> But I guess my point, Ben, I I see all
[00:16:00] that. My point is, you know, especially
[00:16:03] assuming that the Afghan who committed,
[00:16:06] actually multiple Afghans who have
[00:16:07] committed these horrible attacks were
[00:16:09] radicalized in America. Let's say they
[00:16:10] were properly vetted and they said all
[00:16:12] the right things and they passed the
[00:16:13] test and they were radicalized here. Uh,
[00:16:15] however, they, you know, they act a
[00:16:17] little a little more in keeping with
[00:16:19] their tribal origins than with regular
[00:16:21] old American leftism or something. It it
[00:16:23] just seems to me that there's more to
[00:16:26] citizenship than passing a a quiz. And
[00:16:29] it seems to me, you know, I'm with
[00:16:30] Thomas Aquinus and and I'm with the
[00:16:32] ancient Jews, which is it seems to me it
[00:16:34] takes generations that there really is
[00:16:36] something that is inarticulable about
[00:16:39] identity within a nation that you can't
[00:16:41] totally write out, you can't totally
[00:16:42] explain, but it's something about how
[00:16:44] you appreciate apple pie on the 4th of
[00:16:46] July and hot dogs and fireworks. And
[00:16:48] there's just something you got to kind
[00:16:49] of get into your bones. And it seems to
[00:16:51] me that people with traditions and
[00:16:53] religions and cultural practices and
[00:16:55] institutions that are closer to ours
[00:16:58] like England despite that a lot of them
[00:16:59] >> voted for I agree with that. But I think
[00:17:01] I think part of that honestly is just a
[00:17:03] failure of of what we have done as a
[00:17:05] society about immigration and about our
[00:17:07] own values. meaning that one of the
[00:17:09] things that makes it easy for people to
[00:17:10] stay in these sort of groups that never
[00:17:13] assimilate is the fact that number one
[00:17:16] we're importing people as gigantic
[00:17:17] groups and number two we're then
[00:17:18] supporting them with welfare dollars and
[00:17:20] telling them they never have to
[00:17:21] assimilate and so if you look at the
[00:17:22] nature of immigration for the first
[00:17:24] century and a half of America's
[00:17:26] existence there was an awful lot of
[00:17:27] immigration for the first century and a
[00:17:28] half of America's immigration system
[00:17:31] that what what you see is because there
[00:17:33] were very few actual supportive
[00:17:35] structures for immigrants that meant
[00:17:36] that you had to assimilate and become
[00:17:38] American that when you went from Europe,
[00:17:40] you know, for for my ancestors, Eastern
[00:17:42] Europe, for for Michael's ancestors from
[00:17:44] Sicily, when when when they came here, I
[00:17:46] mean, I I assume, Michael, that your
[00:17:48] family didn't come here rich. I mean,
[00:17:50] everyone's family came here basically
[00:17:51] dirt poor and they didn't know the
[00:17:53] language and then they assimilated as
[00:17:54] fast as humanly possible. So, for my
[00:17:56] ancestors who came here at like 1900 or
[00:17:58] so, they came here and they all spoke
[00:18:00] Yiddish. And within like 3 years, they
[00:18:02] were sending their kids, you're like
[00:18:03] immediately, they said, "You're not
[00:18:04] allowed to speak in the house. You need
[00:18:05] to start speaking English." Right.
[00:18:06] Exactly. get get with it because if you
[00:18:08] want to integrate into the American
[00:18:10] lifestyle and economic system and take
[00:18:12] part of the American dream, you have to
[00:18:13] like actually take part in the American
[00:18:15] dream. And then in 1965, we decided that
[00:18:17] we were basically just going to throw
[00:18:18] the doors wide open and not only that,
[00:18:20] provide a gigantic social welfare net
[00:18:22] that people were going to take advantage
[00:18:23] of. And that's how you end up with
[00:18:25] importation of 100,000 Somali who
[00:18:27] immediately start building the welfare
[00:18:29] system to the tune of a billion dollars.
[00:18:31] That can't happen in the absence of
[00:18:32] these governmental structures. So I'm
[00:18:33] not going to make it just about the
[00:18:34] immigrants. human beings have, you know,
[00:18:36] terrible natures by by, you know, the
[00:18:39] essence of who they are. I'm going to
[00:18:40] say that the incentive structures that
[00:18:42] we've created here are truly awful
[00:18:44] because we've been able to take in
[00:18:45] enormous numbers of Cuban Americans and
[00:18:47] Venezuelan Americans and Vietnamese
[00:18:49] Americans, Chinese Americans.
[00:18:51] >> The Cubans get a pass. They're great.
[00:18:52] The Cubans are great. the other ones. I
[00:18:54] don't I I'm not
[00:18:55] >> I think it's like I think it's I think
[00:18:56] it's kind of it's it's both because I I
[00:18:58] agree with Ben that we need to evaluate
[00:19:01] each individually, but you can also make
[00:19:03] determinations based on groups as well
[00:19:05] uh by looking at like group tendencies.
[00:19:07] And I I think so here's one policy I
[00:19:10] like the idea of if you're a third world
[00:19:11] country, we're not going to import
[00:19:12] anyone uh from your country. But maybe
[00:19:14] another way of putting that because of
[00:19:16] course then you get in the argument like
[00:19:17] well how do you define third world
[00:19:18] country? How about this? If your country
[00:19:20] has not figured out
[00:19:23] um waste disposal, okay? If you don't
[00:19:26] have a system for waste disposal, then
[00:19:29] we're not going to accept anyone from
[00:19:31] your country at all, which is just
[00:19:32] another way of saying third world
[00:19:33] country because like you you go to these
[00:19:34] third world countries, if you've ever
[00:19:36] been to one, and you see that, you know,
[00:19:38] of of of the many different forms of
[00:19:40] dysfunction, one of the most obvious
[00:19:41] ones that you can see and smell is that
[00:19:44] they've just got bi giant piles of trash
[00:19:46] everywhere. And they and also they just
[00:19:48] throw their trash in the rivers and
[00:19:49] their and their water is undrinkable for
[00:19:51] that reason. Now I mean there were there
[00:19:53] were societies 2,000 years ago that that
[00:19:55] that figured out uh waste disposal and
[00:19:57] yet you've got people in modern times
[00:19:58] who still haven't figured it out. This
[00:20:00] is just like the basic these are these
[00:20:02] are the the basic functions of a society
[00:20:05] that these people it's not just the
[00:20:06] government but the people have not
[00:20:08] figured out. And if you're one of those
[00:20:10] people then you probably don't have a
[00:20:12] lot to offer us. And you know there's
[00:20:14] also talk about things we can't talk
[00:20:16] about. Michael, I mean,
[00:20:18] >> Somali have an IQ on average of about
[00:20:20] 70. Okay. Uh that's that's a right
[00:20:23] that's a that's a real that's a real
[00:20:24] thing. And so if you've got a a group
[00:20:26] with an average IQ of 70 and you bring
[00:20:28] them into this country, what are you
[00:20:30] going to get? So I think you can make
[00:20:31] these kind of group level distinctions
[00:20:33] and then also narrow it down to
[00:20:35] individual. The other thing we also have
[00:20:36] to keep in mind is that you know most
[00:20:38] people there was a there was a there's a
[00:20:40] clip going viral right now of from the
[00:20:42] whatever podcast and it's a a woman from
[00:20:45] uh I think Colombia and she's got
[00:20:47] tattoos all over her face which number
[00:20:49] one if you have tattoos on your face you
[00:20:50] should be deported already even I don't
[00:20:52] care if you've been here since your
[00:20:53] family's been here I like him
[00:20:55] >> right except for him but everybody else
[00:20:57] but she she so so she she he's asked
[00:21:00] well if Colombia and the United States
[00:21:02] were at war who would you side with? She
[00:21:04] says Colombia and the guy is like
[00:21:06] shocked by this. It's like, "Well, why
[00:21:07] would you side with Colombia?" And she
[00:21:09] says, and she's almost confused by the
[00:21:10] question because it's obvious to her.
[00:21:12] And she says, "Well, because I'm from
[00:21:13] there." Like, I'm from there. Of course.
[00:21:15] Of course I'm going to side with
[00:21:16] Colombia.
[00:21:16] >> Let's say the United States went to war
[00:21:19] with Colombia. Who do you side with?
[00:21:22] >> Colombia.
[00:21:22] >> Why do you side with Colombia?
[00:21:24] >> Because I'm from Colombia.
[00:21:25] >> You've lived here for 10 years and
[00:21:27] you're now a citizen. And the reality is
[00:21:29] like the vast majority of immigrants,
[00:21:30] maybe not all of them, but the vast
[00:21:32] majority of immigrants in this country
[00:21:33] right now, first generation and second
[00:21:35] generation, if you ask them the same
[00:21:37] question, they give the same answer for
[00:21:38] the same reason. And it's not because if
[00:21:40] they, you know, the Somali, they still
[00:21:42] feel this tie to their homeland. And
[00:21:44] maybe it's confusing to Americans
[00:21:46] because we say, "Well, Somalia is a
[00:21:47] total hell hole. Why do you care about
[00:21:48] Somalia so much? You came here. Why are
[00:21:51] you still proud of Somalia?" Well, it's
[00:21:53] it's because they're from there. It's
[00:21:54] like they're tied to that by blood. And
[00:21:57] yeah, they chose to come here, but your
[00:21:58] blood is stronger than your personal
[00:22:00] choice.
[00:22:00] >> And heritage is enduring. Absolutely.
[00:22:02] >> It's it's no different than if I were to
[00:22:04] say, you know, I love my children. And
[00:22:06] you were ask why do you love your
[00:22:07] children? I'm not going to tell you,
[00:22:09] well, they get they do well in their
[00:22:10] schoolwork and they're obedient and
[00:22:12] they're talented and intelligent. I
[00:22:14] think all those things are true about my
[00:22:15] children. That's not the reason I love
[00:22:16] them because if they were stupid, I
[00:22:17] would still love them. I love them
[00:22:19] because they're my children. That's why.
[00:22:20] It's the only They're my children.
[00:22:22] That's why I love them. You love your
[00:22:23] homeland because it's where you're from.
[00:22:25] your ancestors are buried there and uh
[00:22:28] and so it's kind of goes back to your
[00:22:29] point Michael there's something enduring
[00:22:31] that lasts for a long time and so we've
[00:22:33] got a lot of people when you bring these
[00:22:34] people in this country that that that
[00:22:36] >> I agree with a lot of that but obviously
[00:22:37] we do have this now this notion in
[00:22:38] America that is historically true that
[00:22:40] you can in fact adopt the American
[00:22:43] identity and Michael maybe your solution
[00:22:44] is the right one which is that we only
[00:22:46] start to see that over the course of a
[00:22:48] serious period of time that it's not
[00:22:49] like day one you're here and then
[00:22:51] magically you're you're an American and
[00:22:52] so it actually takes some time to
[00:22:54] integrate and we have to actually check
[00:22:55] back in and make sure that you're you're
[00:22:56] properly assimilating and all the rest.
[00:22:58] And sort of one thing that that I would
[00:23:00] add to sort of Matt's analysis when it
[00:23:02] comes to judging by group. So Thomas
[00:23:04] Dole talks about discrimination. One of
[00:23:05] the things he talks about is a type of
[00:23:06] discrimination that is initially a
[00:23:09] judgment by group in the absence of
[00:23:10] individual information. So what he says
[00:23:12] is it's not discrimination to judge
[00:23:15] based on group identity so long as you
[00:23:17] don't know the individual because you
[00:23:18] have to operate based on best available
[00:23:19] data. Right? If you walk into a room and
[00:23:22] in the room everybody is of a particular
[00:23:25] height and you assume that all of them
[00:23:27] are therefore not amazing at basketball
[00:23:29] because they're all 5'10", then that's
[00:23:30] that's like not the worst assumption in
[00:23:32] the world to take an innocuous example.
[00:23:33] But if it turns out that one of those
[00:23:34] people happens to be, you know, Alan
[00:23:37] Iverson or Spud Webb or something and
[00:23:38] now you know that guy, you know, okay,
[00:23:40] now you know. So when it comes to you
[00:23:42] know looking at immigrants from from
[00:23:44] places that suck uh where they don't
[00:23:46] have running water or or proper sewage
[00:23:48] disposal you know I I think that there
[00:23:50] are individuals who obviously and we can
[00:23:52] name them who have come from crappy
[00:23:54] countries and who end up being
[00:23:55] tremendous Americans right I mean like
[00:23:57] an example of a person who came from a
[00:23:58] truly crappy country I think she was
[00:24:00] from Sudan and who ends up being like an
[00:24:02] indis indispensable member of western
[00:24:04] civilization hersi comes to mind right
[00:24:07] ends up you know is basically running
[00:24:10] away from a forced child marriage and
[00:24:12] she ends up in Denmark where she becomes
[00:24:14] a a sort of gadfly anti-Islamist there
[00:24:16] and then she comes to the United States
[00:24:18] and she marries Neil Ferguson and she
[00:24:20] converts to Christianity and all this
[00:24:22] sort of stuff you know like that's
[00:24:24] that's an amazing story and that's
[00:24:25] wonderful but you if you're judging in
[00:24:27] terms of groups obviously you have to
[00:24:29] but but then if we can get to the
[00:24:30] individual that's maybe the best way to
[00:24:32] bring people in because one of the
[00:24:33] things we have to worry about when it
[00:24:34] comes to immigration and we do have to
[00:24:35] worry about this is for example you want
[00:24:38] a brain drain right you do want the
[00:24:39] smartest people to come to the United
[00:24:41] States. You do want the most highly
[00:24:43] motivated, gritty people to come to the
[00:24:44] United States. And this is why I think
[00:24:46] that the the term of art that that is
[00:24:48] most important here is mass migration,
[00:24:50] right? When we're talking about mass
[00:24:51] migration, large numbers of people
[00:24:53] coming in, it's almost impossible to do
[00:24:55] the kind of thing that I'm talking
[00:24:56] about. But I want to make sure that we
[00:24:57] don't throw the baby out with the bath.
[00:24:58] >> But think about this, Ben. I look of
[00:25:00] course we we all love ioni and we want
[00:25:03] we want these exceptional individuals to
[00:25:05] be to be part of our country and
[00:25:07] immigration is like spice in Indian food
[00:25:09] you know a little bit goes a long way
[00:25:10] you don't actually need a ton of it but
[00:25:12] but I I saw Wajhat Ali who's this
[00:25:14] liberal talking head I think we've all
[00:25:16] debated him at some point or other uh in
[00:25:18] some ways he's this totally assimilated
[00:25:20] guy his parents are from Pakistan he was
[00:25:22] born in California graduated Berkeley
[00:25:24] bloiates dresses like a slob you know
[00:25:26] he's like the perfect American lib but
[00:25:28] he had vicious rant the other day that
[00:25:31] he posted to social media and he said,
[00:25:33] you know, haha, you white people, you
[00:25:34] lost and we brown people, we're going to
[00:25:37] outreed you and we're are your parties
[00:25:39] suck and everything about you sucks and
[00:25:41] we're better at everything. And what was
[00:25:42] amazing was he's on the one hand so
[00:25:44] liberal, on the other hand, it was this
[00:25:46] deeply tribal animosity at the native
[00:25:49] population of the United States. And and
[00:25:51] I thought, you know, he's accidentally
[00:25:52] kind of telling on himself on the
[00:25:54] problem of of migration, which is even
[00:25:56] even to your point, Ben, even if we
[00:25:58] could examine each individual and and
[00:26:00] pick them for their best qualities, you
[00:26:02] know, a kind of meritocratic immigration
[00:26:03] system at a large enough scale, I don't
[00:26:06] think it really works because Waji had
[00:26:07] aliases, you know, you bring one of us
[00:26:09] over and the thing about immigration is
[00:26:11] we're going to bring our cousins and our
[00:26:12] uncle and our dad and our spouse and our
[00:26:14] this and because people have these
[00:26:15] enduring bonds, which they should,
[00:26:17] >> but Michael, I mean, it did work for a
[00:26:19] very long time. So, we have to ask what
[00:26:20] changed.
[00:26:21] >> 1965, the heart seller act.
[00:26:23] >> I mean, I I agree with I agree with you.
[00:26:24] That's the thing that changed. And so,
[00:26:26] maybe the the discussion at least half I
[00:26:28] agree with the the the argument we need
[00:26:30] to shut shut it all down until we know
[00:26:32] what the hell is going on. But maybe at
[00:26:33] least half the discussion that we're
[00:26:34] having should be about number one, the
[00:26:36] sources of immigration, and number two,
[00:26:38] the gigantic welfare system that allows
[00:26:40] people to live off the public dime and
[00:26:42] then integrate into our worst places,
[00:26:44] colleges and universities, and learn the
[00:26:46] kind of crap that Wjad Ali was taugh
[00:26:48] because the truth is
[00:26:50] Yeah, exactly. I mean, by the way, the
[00:26:51] only difference between Jia Ali and a
[00:26:53] typical liberal Berkeley member from,
[00:26:56] you know, the middle of the country is
[00:26:58] the color of their skin. Like, like
[00:27:00] truly what was amazing about that come
[00:27:02] from that. But
[00:27:03] >> yeah, no, I mean, the Wahad Ali clip
[00:27:05] that the thing that's really astonishing
[00:27:06] about it is that everybody on the right
[00:27:08] is constantly accused of great
[00:27:10] replacement theory. If you said exactly
[00:27:12] the same thing in exactly the same words
[00:27:14] that Jahad Ali said it, it's truly an
[00:27:15] unbelievable thing. But if you say it
[00:27:17] with a smile on your face about how it's
[00:27:18] good, then apparently it's no longer a
[00:27:20] great replacement theory. It's just the
[00:27:21] natural way that things should go. It's
[00:27:22] pretty amazing.
[00:27:23] >> Yeah. So, this is what Mike Anton calls
[00:27:25] the the celebration parallax. If you
[00:27:27] think it's good, then you get away with
[00:27:28] it.
[00:27:29] >> It's not it's not Yeah. It's not
[00:27:30] happening and we're glad that it is.
[00:27:31] Yes. Exactly. So, it I mean, this to me
[00:27:34] is this is where it it comes back
[00:27:36] biblically and and philosophically is I
[00:27:39] want to be clear. I We're kind of
[00:27:40] beating up on you know, the third
[00:27:41] worlders and everything. It's not that I
[00:27:43] am opposed to all immigration. I don't
[00:27:45] think that assimilation is always uh
[00:27:48] harmful necessarily or it should be
[00:27:50] totally cut off or it's impossible. But
[00:27:52] you have to be really really uh precise
[00:27:54] about it. You know, Ruth who is in the
[00:27:56] genealogy of Christ is a Moabitete who
[00:27:59] says to the Israelites, "Your God will
[00:28:01] be my God and your people will be my
[00:28:02] people." And so obviously
[00:28:03] >> well actually Michael this is important.
[00:28:05] The actual verbiage is your people will
[00:28:06] be my people and your God will be my
[00:28:08] God. So actually your people comes
[00:28:09] first, right? So right your people are
[00:28:11] going to be my people. Yep.
[00:28:13] >> Yes. And so you know there's this You
[00:28:15] know, look, we're living in time and
[00:28:16] space and we're incarnate creatures and
[00:28:18] so like these bonds of family and
[00:28:19] community really matter. Even the notion
[00:28:21] of patriotism comes from patria and it
[00:28:24] means that it's an extension of the love
[00:28:25] of your family. And we we've just become
[00:28:27] so I don't know disembodied or something
[00:28:29] in our in our modern view of politics
[00:28:32] and ourselves. And this is really clear
[00:28:34] in the 1965 heart seller immigration
[00:28:36] act. You know, look at different times
[00:28:38] in American history, we had very little
[00:28:39] immigration, very restricted from where
[00:28:41] it could come from. Then we opened it up
[00:28:43] a little bit and it caused problems. And
[00:28:44] I'll say this, I'll bring up the the old
[00:28:46] Italians. You know, immigration from uh
[00:28:49] Britain is one thing. Immigration from
[00:28:51] say Germany, you know, in the 19th
[00:28:52] century, it it was okay. It was fine. It
[00:28:55] was a little harder to assimilate than
[00:28:56] the Brits, but okay, we still had
[00:28:57] memories of the Hessins. The Italian
[00:28:59] immigration, look, it ultimately, I
[00:29:01] think, basically worked out even though
[00:29:02] we got Pelosy's out of it. But it did
[00:29:04] introduce a lot of social problems. And
[00:29:06] I think it's because it's kind of harder
[00:29:08] to assimilate even southern European
[00:29:11] people into America than it was northern
[00:29:13] or central European people. And so you
[00:29:15] take that to its extreme and you say
[00:29:16] look you go to a place like Somalia
[00:29:18] which has very very little in common
[00:29:21] with us other than that we're all
[00:29:22] children of God and you say maybe they
[00:29:25] just don't really get to come that much
[00:29:27] except the one or two exceptional
[00:29:28] people.
[00:29:28] >> Well, if you want more quotations by the
[00:29:30] way from Thomas Aquinus and uh and more
[00:29:33] Latin paraphrases from from Michael then
[00:29:35] you absolutely should become a
[00:29:36] subscriber. By the way, I should just
[00:29:37] mention that we do have an excellent
[00:29:38] deal on right now to become a Daily Wire
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[00:29:47] It's like 70% off all of the
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[00:29:58] then you should go check that out right
[00:29:59] now. They've got the Golden Leftist
[00:30:00] Tears Tumblr and they've got the
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[00:30:06] really funny. And they've got the
[00:30:08] t-shirts and the hoodies and all sorts
[00:30:10] of other stuff. So go check them out
[00:30:11] right now. Dailywire.com/shop. And
[00:30:13] again, make sure that you actually
[00:30:14] subscribe because when you subscribe,
[00:30:16] then you get all the goodies that we
[00:30:17] have so much good stuff coming next
[00:30:18] year. Like, I can't even begin to
[00:30:20] describe all the good stuff that we have
[00:30:21] coming next year. Truly, like, it's kind
[00:30:22] of amazing. No, I think we need to
[00:30:24] restore a little balance, Ben. I think
[00:30:26] we need to restore a little balance to
[00:30:27] this show. If you tell us about balance
[00:30:29] of nature,
[00:30:30] >> I that was going to be I I was going to
[00:30:32] do that. That was going to be my
[00:30:34] transition. I was I
[00:30:35] >> Let me try that again. Hold on. Hold on.
[00:30:36] Let me try it again. Take two.
[00:30:38] >> Don't cut this. This is good stuff. Hey
[00:30:40] Matt, I think we need to restore a
[00:30:41] little balance to our show. If you
[00:30:44] >> I was going to say I was going to say
[00:30:45] the bit about the balance. Whatever.
[00:30:46] It's fine. Let's uh let's talk about
[00:30:48] Balance of Nature. You know, their
[00:30:49] ingredients are 100% whole fruits,
[00:30:52] vegetables, spices, and fibers. Uh you
[00:30:54] can experience for yourself as I have
[00:30:56] the original balance of color, taste,
[00:30:58] and smell. Uh their fruits, vegetable
[00:31:00] supplements include 31 colorful
[00:31:03] ingredients of 16 whole fruits and 15
[00:31:06] whole vegetables. Uh ingredients include
[00:31:08] mango, pineapple, wild blueberries,
[00:31:10] banana, shiakei mushrooms, wheatgrass,
[00:31:12] spinach, kale, uh cayenne pepper,
[00:31:15] broccoli, and the fiber and spice
[00:31:17] supplement features stuff that I can't
[00:31:19] pronounce, but psyllium husk is what you
[00:31:22] It's important to get the psyllium. I
[00:31:23] don't know what that is, but I see that
[00:31:25] and I just feel like I I need to have
[00:31:27] more psyllium husk in my life. Uh flax
[00:31:29] seed, whole apple, and monk fruit. It
[00:31:31] also includes 12 aromatic spices such as
[00:31:34] cinnamon, turmeric, and cardamom. Uh, I
[00:31:37] actually take the bounce nature
[00:31:39] supplements. It's one of the only things
[00:31:41] I do for my health. I never go to a
[00:31:43] doctor. I refuse to. I pulled my
[00:31:45] hamstring over Thanksgiving break
[00:31:47] playing pickup football with my kids
[00:31:49] outside. I'm crippled. I refuse to go to
[00:31:51] a doctor for that. My wife keeps saying,
[00:31:53] "Why don't you go to a doctor? You can
[00:31:54] barely walk." I said, "The doctor's not
[00:31:56] going to do anything for me. What do I
[00:31:57] got to get an MRI? I got to be in that
[00:31:59] in that tube. It's kind of weird and
[00:32:01] claustrophobic. Um, anyway, I won't do
[00:32:03] any of that, but I will take Balance of
[00:32:06] Nature, which you should as well. Plus,
[00:32:08] they're launching a fantastic new
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[00:32:28] balanceofnneature.com to claim this
[00:32:30] limited time offer before it ends.
[00:32:33] >> Speaking of food, Matt, you you focused
[00:32:36] on the real issues while we were all uh
[00:32:38] stuffing ourselves over Thanksgiving and
[00:32:40] you talked about why restaurants suck
[00:32:43] now and I actually I didn't catch it and
[00:32:46] I want to hear it.
[00:32:47] >> Well, you haven't caught a single piece
[00:32:48] of content I've ever put out since I've
[00:32:51] been here,
[00:32:51] >> including stuff we've done together.
[00:32:52] [laughter]
[00:32:52] >> That does that doesn't surprise me. Um
[00:32:55] but uh yeah, so I so over over the uh
[00:32:57] the Thanksgiving break, we put up a
[00:32:59] video. I I uh you know, I told my team I
[00:33:01] want to do I I'm you know, and maybe
[00:33:03] there was some skepticism or I don't
[00:33:05] know because it's it's it's one of those
[00:33:06] topics you don't know exactly how much
[00:33:07] it'll resonate, but I I have this
[00:33:11] impression and I think a lot of people
[00:33:12] have it that everything sucks now. The
[00:33:14] quality of everything is has gone down
[00:33:17] and that's especially the case with
[00:33:19] food. And I was thinking about this the
[00:33:20] other day cuz we got it. We ordered
[00:33:21] pizza and uh and all these I I can
[00:33:25] remember when I was a kid that you'd
[00:33:28] order a pizza and you could pretty much
[00:33:30] order a pizza from almost anywhere and
[00:33:32] it was pretty good. And not only was it
[00:33:34] pretty good, but it was different. Like
[00:33:36] you could get a pizza from Domino's and
[00:33:38] that was one thing. It would go to Papa
[00:33:39] John's. It was like a very different
[00:33:40] flavors, a different kind of pizza. You
[00:33:42] could go to Pizza Hut. You could even go
[00:33:44] inside Pizza Hut. They had a They had a
[00:33:46] salad bar. You could sit down. It was a
[00:33:47] whole thing with my family. We very
[00:33:49] rarely ordered out cuz we have a million
[00:33:51] kids in the family. And uh going to
[00:33:53] Pizza Hut was like put on your Sunday's
[00:33:55] best and go to Pizza Hut. It was a night
[00:33:56] on the town. It was a lot of fun. And
[00:33:58] the pizza was great. And now you order
[00:34:00] from these places and there are two
[00:34:02] things you notice. Number one, it all
[00:34:04] tastes exactly the same. And it's all
[00:34:06] terrible. It's like cardboard with
[00:34:08] ketchup smeared on it, put in a
[00:34:09] microwave. That's what all pizza tastes
[00:34:10] like. And you go to these chain
[00:34:12] restaurants and you I haven't been to a
[00:34:14] chain restaurant in in a little bit. I
[00:34:16] took we took our kids to I guess I won't
[00:34:18] say that. No, it was we went to Outback
[00:34:20] and uh and we sat down. It was like
[00:34:23] inedible. I could I could I actually
[00:34:25] could not finish it. It was salt.
[00:34:26] >> Did you get the bloom and onion
[00:34:27] >> and Yeah, I got Well, that I could
[00:34:29] finish, but I didn't I finished it. I
[00:34:31] didn't enjoy it though. I [laughter]
[00:34:33] hated myself the whole time. And uh and
[00:34:35] then we got a you know, the rest of the
[00:34:37] food. It was like everything is really
[00:34:38] salty and it tastes bad. And that's the
[00:34:40] case with most of these chain
[00:34:41] restaurants. So, this is what I've what
[00:34:42] I've perceived. We did I did a little
[00:34:44] video on it.
[00:34:45] >> Is there Is there a theory attached to
[00:34:46] this or is it just being an old just you
[00:34:48] being an old person? Exactly. Like this
[00:34:51] is there's a
[00:34:52] >> you realizing that that when you were
[00:34:53] eight years old everything tasted great
[00:34:55] including some of the trashiest food on
[00:34:56] earth.
[00:34:57] >> There is a theory. So this is what I'm
[00:34:59] saying. I said I want to look into this.
[00:35:01] Like this is the impression I have is
[00:35:03] that the quality has gone down. Is it
[00:35:04] just nostalgia or is there something
[00:35:06] real that's actually happening here? And
[00:35:08] uh and there is something real. So
[00:35:10] quality has dropped and I think it's
[00:35:12] across the board with many things in
[00:35:13] American life, but just focusing on food
[00:35:15] for a moment. Uh it it has gone down
[00:35:18] because a few things have happened as I
[00:35:19] researched this. Um and uh number one, a
[00:35:22] lot of these these restaurants have been
[00:35:24] taken over by by these private equity
[00:35:26] companies that come in. And this has
[00:35:28] happened especially over the last 20 or
[00:35:29] 25 years where most of these places are
[00:35:31] not own they're owned by the private
[00:35:33] equity firms. And then part of that is
[00:35:37] that now they come in it's like we're we
[00:35:38] got to cut costs. And so they they go to
[00:35:42] these big distributors like Cisco. And
[00:35:44] so it's all the same food. Like they 80%
[00:35:47] of these places they they're ordering
[00:35:49] the food from the same place. Everything
[00:35:50] is frozen. None of it is fresh anymore.
[00:35:53] And uh and it wasn't always that way.
[00:35:55] And and it is now. Uh the quality has
[00:35:57] gone down. And then the third part of it
[00:35:59] is that none of the people involved from
[00:36:01] like the person behind the cash register
[00:36:03] all the way up to the people that own
[00:36:04] the places now, none of them actually
[00:36:06] care about the quality of the food. It
[00:36:09] doesn't matter to them. There's no one
[00:36:10] involved who has any passion about the
[00:36:13] quality of the stuff that they're giving
[00:36:14] you. Uh they're just they're just there
[00:36:16] for the profit or they're there for it
[00:36:18] because it's a job. And so if you
[00:36:19] complain about the quality, there's no
[00:36:21] one to even complain to because no one
[00:36:22] cares. No one that you're talking to
[00:36:24] cares about it. And so this is a real
[00:36:26] thing.
[00:36:27] >> So how did that part change?
[00:36:28] >> I the the food part is okay. I I see
[00:36:30] they changed their supply chains or
[00:36:32] whatever. What happened is with the
[00:36:34] employees?
[00:36:36] Well, I think I well part part of it is
[00:36:38] that if you go back again 20 years ago,
[00:36:41] a lot of these places they were
[00:36:42] employing like high school students.
[00:36:44] That's I I I worked at a pizza place
[00:36:46] when I was in high school and and that's
[00:36:49] happening less and less now. Now you've
[00:36:51] got also uh the you know the numbers of
[00:36:54] people who work in these industries now
[00:36:55] who have like substance abuse problems
[00:36:57] who are older with substance abuse
[00:36:59] problems. Uh that's gone up considerably
[00:37:01] as well. So, but but also if you're if
[00:37:04] you're working for one of these and
[00:37:05] look, I'm as capitalist as the next guy,
[00:37:06] but you're working for one of these
[00:37:07] places that's owned by some conglomerate
[00:37:09] or owned by by by a private equity firm.
[00:37:12] It's like you don't you don't feel a tie
[00:37:14] to it anymore. You you don't really care
[00:37:16] that much about the product. And as I
[00:37:18] said, the people that own the place
[00:37:19] don't don't care about
[00:37:20] >> I actually I actually think it's it's
[00:37:21] it's not even I think that it's
[00:37:23] corporate versus not corporate. I think
[00:37:24] it's family versus corporate. Meaning,
[00:37:26] so most people who start restaurants,
[00:37:28] right, like small restaurants, it's
[00:37:29] usually like you and your family
[00:37:30] members. So, I I was I was making we
[00:37:32] were we were talking about whether we
[00:37:33] should do this topic earlier and I was
[00:37:34] kind of making fun of you guys because I
[00:37:36] was saying in the kosher community like
[00:37:37] I eat kosher. So, I'm I'm coming from a
[00:37:39] different context from you guys. Like
[00:37:41] the last time I ate at a chain
[00:37:42] restaurant, like a a normal not kosher
[00:37:44] chain restaurant, I was 11 years old and
[00:37:45] it was Kentucky Fried Chicken. So, it's
[00:37:47] been 30 years for me. And like they have
[00:37:49] some chain restaurants in Israel and
[00:37:51] they are similarly not as good, but but
[00:37:53] they're certainly better, I think, than
[00:37:55] than the ones that are in the United
[00:37:56] States. In in the kosher community,
[00:37:58] every single restaurant is a
[00:37:59] family-owned restaurant. Even the even
[00:38:01] the family-owned restaurants that have
[00:38:02] like three or four different
[00:38:03] restaurants, that's like the extent of
[00:38:04] it. There's no such thing as a kosher
[00:38:05] chain restaurant because there like
[00:38:06] eight of us in the United States. And so
[00:38:08] what that means is that the restaurant
[00:38:10] quality has actually gotten better and
[00:38:11] better and better since I was a kid
[00:38:12] because you're getting people who are
[00:38:14] aging into more income. And as they age
[00:38:16] into more income, they can spend more of
[00:38:17] their income on these restaurants. And
[00:38:19] the community isn't big enough to
[00:38:20] support a gigantic like chain of of
[00:38:22] hamburger restaurants. And so instead
[00:38:24] what you get are like really good
[00:38:27] excellent kind of locally sourced dishes
[00:38:29] where the where the family owns it and
[00:38:31] because that's I think everybody in our
[00:38:32] in you guys have big families. I've got
[00:38:34] a big family and so everybody has the
[00:38:36] the aunt who's like you know she's a
[00:38:37] really good cook. She should really
[00:38:38] start a restaurant. Somebody should
[00:38:40] actually start. And then it turns out
[00:38:41] that restaurant is like the hardest
[00:38:43] business to succeed in that they go
[00:38:44] bankrupt at an extraordinary rate. And
[00:38:46] so what that means is that particularly
[00:38:48] if you are a person who is trying to
[00:38:50] just keep your restaurant open, you got
[00:38:51] to work your ass off, right? You got to
[00:38:53] love doing it. You got to love the food.
[00:38:54] You got to bring your 14-year-old in
[00:38:56] from middle school to like get behind
[00:38:58] the counter and and really work. I spent
[00:39:00] my entire life in restaurants, by the
[00:39:01] way. Like my dad worked at a restaurant
[00:39:02] my entire childhood. He was he played
[00:39:04] the piano at a restaurant. And so I was
[00:39:06] like in the kitchen with the waiters and
[00:39:07] like hanging out with the bartenders for
[00:39:09] fully 10 years of my life, 15 years of
[00:39:11] my life when I was a kid. So I I love
[00:39:13] these restaurants. I'm big into kind of
[00:39:14] the local restaurants. And I will say
[00:39:16] that when it comes to kind of chain
[00:39:18] product, the people who get into the
[00:39:20] McDonald's business are there to make
[00:39:22] money. They're not there cuz they want
[00:39:23] to make a great burger. The the the the
[00:39:25] people who want to make a great burger
[00:39:26] are starting their own kind of local
[00:39:27] their their own local shop. So, I
[00:39:28] actually think there is something to
[00:39:29] that and I do think that you can feel it
[00:39:30] in the food.
[00:39:31] >> Can I please interject some facts into
[00:39:33] this because you're both speaking in
[00:39:35] generalities that and you're you're just
[00:39:38] missing it. Okay. And I don't I don't
[00:39:39] know how I've been a little open about
[00:39:41] this, but I I'm a pretty heavy user of
[00:39:44] fast food. I'm I'm I get a Mac attack
[00:39:47] pretty regularly. And I can tell you
[00:39:49] with certain I'll just go down the list.
[00:39:50] KFC has gotten worse in the last 25
[00:39:53] years. There's no doubt about that.
[00:39:54] Domino's, on the other hand, has gotten
[00:39:56] better in the last 25 years. McDonald's
[00:39:58] has gotten much better. I don't even
[00:39:59] want to eat. McDonald's, the fries used
[00:40:01] to be better. Sure. Now they use fresh
[00:40:03] beef for the double quarter pounder with
[00:40:05] cheese or for the regular quarter
[00:40:06] pounder. It's it's much better. Arby's
[00:40:08] was awesome. Got really bad is much much
[00:40:10] better now. The double beef and cheddar
[00:40:12] was an absolute uh it was a revelation.
[00:40:15] Uh Texas Roadhouse as good as it's ever
[00:40:18] been. Uh, Cracker Barrel. The food's a
[00:40:19] little sloppier now, but the service is
[00:40:21] still great. Uh, Outback, I grant you,
[00:40:24] is has not really kept up with the
[00:40:25] times. I mean, the list goes on and on
[00:40:28] and on. Uh, Hardies got worse and Carl
[00:40:31] Jr. got worse after Andy Puzer left. So,
[00:40:33] look, there's there are particularities
[00:40:34] here, but I I think Matt, you're feeling
[00:40:37] a little bit of nostalgia for your
[00:40:38] childhood because I grew up in New York.
[00:40:42] So my friends who grew up in the middle
[00:40:44] of the country or in the south or even a
[00:40:45] little bit on the west coast they did
[00:40:47] not have look this is a I had nice
[00:40:50] family actual family restaurants growing
[00:40:52] up that were casual that were cheap and
[00:40:54] but they were very very good and so I I
[00:40:57] wasn't as yeah I do the Applebee's every
[00:40:59] now and again. Yeah, I do the Outback
[00:41:01] every now and again, but if you look at
[00:41:03] the actual like not chain restaurants, I
[00:41:05] think they've gotten generally much
[00:41:07] better with one exception, which is that
[00:41:10] hipsters made the plates get much
[00:41:11] smaller. They inserted like a bunch of
[00:41:13] dumb like adjectives into it, like
[00:41:15] activated Brussels sprouts. And but
[00:41:17] otherwise, I actually think this is the
[00:41:19] one area where I'd say things have have
[00:41:21] gotten noticeably better.
[00:41:25] I I call I basically call you all
[00:41:27] ignorant on your use of fast food. I
[00:41:29] think the Hey, hang on a second,
[00:41:30] Michael. So, you said you're you're
[00:41:32] going to inject facts and then all you
[00:41:33] did was just arbitrarily go down a list
[00:41:35] of which which restaurants you
[00:41:37] personally prefer more. I'm I'm the one
[00:41:39] injecting facts in the discussion. I'm
[00:41:41] telling you that things that what there
[00:41:43] is a number of actual significant
[00:41:46] changes that have factually occurred.
[00:41:47] One of them is that these places, most
[00:41:49] of them do not use fresh food anymore.
[00:41:52] And uh and and they used to like most of
[00:41:55] these restaurants used to use fresh food
[00:41:57] and now they don't. Now they're getting
[00:41:59] the same frozen food off the back of the
[00:42:02] >> Wendy's. Always fresh, never frozen.
[00:42:04] McDonald's used to be frozen, now fresh.
[00:42:06] You think you're injecting? I'm
[00:42:08] injecting fast.
[00:42:09] >> God, the level of passion, Michael, that
[00:42:10] you have for this is Matt like I I never
[00:42:12] say you're big on the Aquinus, but I
[00:42:14] think that your actual area of specialty
[00:42:16] and interest lies in fast food.
[00:42:18] >> I'm a secret fat guy.
[00:42:19] >> It's I look, first of all, I'm I'm not
[00:42:21] disagreeing. I actually think that
[00:42:22] McDonald's of all the fast food options
[00:42:24] gets a bad rap. But it is like it's
[00:42:26] >> Burger King is like a homeless shelter
[00:42:27] now. Yeah, that one. McDonald's is is
[00:42:29] pretty consistent. If you want fast
[00:42:30] food, you should just go [snorts] to
[00:42:31] McDonald's. It has by far and away. If
[00:42:32] you want a fast food breakfast, you're
[00:42:34] not going to get better than McDonald's.
[00:42:35] I'll 100% agree with you there. It's
[00:42:37] like Five Guys is great. But guess what?
[00:42:39] It's fresh. They actually use fresh
[00:42:40] ingredient.
[00:42:40] >> You have to take a second mortgage to
[00:42:42] get Five Guys. I mean,
[00:42:43] >> but they but that's that. See, that's
[00:42:44] you got you got to pay because it's
[00:42:46] actually fresh. They don't have a
[00:42:47] freezer in the place. You're getting
[00:42:48] fresh ingredients. Well, you pick up
[00:42:49] when you go to like Applebee's or
[00:42:51] Chili's the food. It's literally the
[00:42:53] same food. They okay the Cisco truck
[00:42:56] goes with the frozen food to Applebee's
[00:42:57] and then it goes across the shopping
[00:42:59] center to the to Chili's and unloads the
[00:43:02] same damn food that then put in a
[00:43:04] microwave and serve to you with a 6,000%
[00:43:07] markup. Okay, it's a scam is what I'm
[00:43:10] telling you.
[00:43:12] >> This is quality of life. You know, they
[00:43:14] accuse us. They say, you know,
[00:43:15] conservatives, we're just conserving the
[00:43:16] liberalism of 15 years ago or whatever.
[00:43:18] This is a good example of that. You
[00:43:19] know, when Chili's came, I'm not just
[00:43:21] blaming Chili. I actually never got that
[00:43:23] into Chili's, but when Chili's and the
[00:43:25] uh similar restaurants came in, they
[00:43:28] displaced old like mom and pop diner
[00:43:31] type things. And there were all sorts of
[00:43:32] reasons. One of my favorite diners
[00:43:33] growing up constantly was failing health
[00:43:36] inspections, was gross, like getting
[00:43:37] people sick. But I loved it. It was it
[00:43:39] was good. And so I think, all right, now
[00:43:41] if the chains are being bought up by
[00:43:42] private equity faces corporations and
[00:43:44] they're they're all no good anymore,
[00:43:46] does this offer an opportunity? Am I
[00:43:48] being too hopeful? Does this offer an
[00:43:49] opportunity for more rancid mom and pop
[00:43:52] diners to fail fail their health
[00:43:53] inspections and delight customers like
[00:43:55] me?
[00:43:56] >> Well, I maybe, but the problem is I
[00:43:58] mean, you just point out like Five Guys
[00:43:59] obviously is not a mom and pop place,
[00:44:01] but it it's so it, you know, it's
[00:44:04] expensive. Like when when everyone is
[00:44:05] going the frozen food route and they're
[00:44:07] getting the same they're just they're,
[00:44:08] you know, wholesale frozen food and
[00:44:10] everything putting in a microwave uh and
[00:44:13] then you come in and say, "I want to do
[00:44:14] fresh food." you're going to have to
[00:44:15] charge a lot more and then that's up to
[00:44:16] the consumer to choose the more
[00:44:18] expensive thing which unfortunately most
[00:44:20] most consumers won't. I mean and that's
[00:44:22] what it comes down to. And I also think
[00:44:23] the fact I mean like we said like we
[00:44:24] said before the fact that
[00:44:27] one of the biggest differences is that
[00:44:29] you're dealing with people who don't
[00:44:30] care anymore. I I had this thought I had
[00:44:32] to I this is not food but I had a I had
[00:44:34] a problem with my with Wi-Fi and I had
[00:44:36] to call the internet company. Uh and
[00:44:39] it's like one of those things where you
[00:44:40] know you know you have to make this
[00:44:41] phone call. You're going to be on the
[00:44:42] phone for 7 hours of your day and you
[00:44:45] got to go through all the automated
[00:44:46] messages. Finally, you get to talk to a
[00:44:48] person. I talked to like 10 different
[00:44:49] people and I'm aware of the fact while
[00:44:52] I'm talking to all these people that
[00:44:54] nobody I'm talking about gives the
[00:44:56] slightest about the problem that
[00:44:58] I'm having. None of them care at all,
[00:45:01] even a little bit. And there's no
[00:45:03] incentive for them to solve my problem.
[00:45:05] It does. Whether my problem is solved or
[00:45:06] not means nothing to them. They don't
[00:45:08] benefit from it being solved. if it
[00:45:10] doesn't hurt them, if it isn't solved.
[00:45:12] And so it's this utterly hopeless
[00:45:13] feeling you have while you're on the
[00:45:15] phone shouting at some person in India
[00:45:18] who doesn't care at all. You're like, I
[00:45:21] I need Wi-Fi. My family's coming over.
[00:45:23] They need to be able to watch TV. We
[00:45:24] want to put a football game on. And
[00:45:26] you're talking to someone who doesn't
[00:45:27] even know what American football is.
[00:45:28] Okay. And this is everywhere you go now.
[00:45:30] >> Matt, I'm just telling you, we're going
[00:45:32] to fast forward 20 years and and it's
[00:45:34] just going to be Matt Walsh's show will
[00:45:35] just be called Old Man Yells at Clouds.
[00:45:37] I mean, my my god,
[00:45:39] >> that's the show now. We're talking about
[00:45:40] 20 years.
[00:45:41] >> I know. You're just You're not old
[00:45:42] enough, so now it's middle-aged man
[00:45:44] clouds. But, you know, one aspect of
[00:45:46] this that that may be worth asking is
[00:45:48] when we were all growing up, maybe it's
[00:45:49] because none of us, I think, grew up
[00:45:51] rich. Going out to dinner was like a big
[00:45:53] deal, right? Going out to dinner was
[00:45:55] like a super big deal. There were four
[00:45:56] kids in my family. You really didn't go
[00:45:58] out to dinner unless there was a special
[00:46:00] occasion in some way. You didn't just go
[00:46:01] out casually to dinner. And and I feel
[00:46:03] like people just go out to dinner much
[00:46:04] more or order in much more. And so it's
[00:46:07] possible that the market has has
[00:46:08] decreased in value in terms of like what
[00:46:10] people are are paying for their dinner
[00:46:12] just because people are ordering in more
[00:46:14] like everything when I was growing up
[00:46:15] was homecooked. Like everything and and
[00:46:17] I think that more and more people have
[00:46:19] accessed eating out or or shipping food
[00:46:21] in as a as a normal mode of eating. And
[00:46:24] that means the prices have to go down
[00:46:25] because otherwise you just can't afford
[00:46:26] it. If you if you're if you're a family
[00:46:28] that has a couple of kids and you're
[00:46:30] bringing in restaurant food every night,
[00:46:32] it can't be really really good
[00:46:33] restaurant food every night or you're
[00:46:34] going to be poor. And and so I I assume
[00:46:36] that that that's while these big, you
[00:46:38] know, chain stores continue to turn out
[00:46:40] not very good food but make decent money
[00:46:42] off it because people are just too lazy
[00:46:43] to actually home cook or they don't feel
[00:46:45] like home cooking. I mean, I I would
[00:46:47] imagine that if you check the stats
[00:46:48] here, and we'll have to check it now, um
[00:46:50] that that people are eating
[00:46:51] significantly more, you know, takeout
[00:46:54] food than they were when we were growing
[00:46:55] up. You know, the salient point of
[00:46:57] Matt's rant, I think, other than his ab
[00:47:00] I think absolute calumny against fast
[00:47:02] food restaurants, which have have got
[00:47:04] compared to fast casual. The the really
[00:47:06] salient point is the the the the feeling
[00:47:09] that I this happened to me at Burger
[00:47:10] King the other day, which again is not
[00:47:12] just like a homeless shelter, but is a
[00:47:13] literal homeless shelter in most cases.
[00:47:15] I I went up I was standing there and
[00:47:17] wanted to order a Whopper and there were
[00:47:19] two women behind the counter and one
[00:47:20] employee had just gotten off and no one
[00:47:22] would take my order and the employee who
[00:47:24] had just gotten off was laughing at me.
[00:47:26] He was laughing at me that no one would
[00:47:28] take my order. They didn't care. I went
[00:47:29] I got a sandwich somewhere else. You
[00:47:31] know, I'm reminded of Barry Goldwater in
[00:47:33] his book Conscience of a Conservative
[00:47:34] ghost written by Brent Bozel who said we
[00:47:37] conservatives we're not just against you
[00:47:38] know big monopolistic government. We're
[00:47:40] against monopolies in all of their forms
[00:47:42] because they're not as responsive and
[00:47:44] that kind of power can take away our
[00:47:46] rights as well. So, I agree. We need we
[00:47:47] need a political missile, a a
[00:47:50] legislative missile perhaps to fix that
[00:47:52] problem. A and we have literal missiles
[00:47:56] that are currently blowing up Venezuelan
[00:47:58] narot terrorists uh by our secretary of
[00:48:00] war. Now, some people, mostly on the
[00:48:03] left, but a little bit in the Republican
[00:48:04] party, are accusing the Secretary of
[00:48:06] War, Pete Hgsth, of committing war
[00:48:08] crimes by taking out the narco
[00:48:10] terrorists. Before I get the educated
[00:48:12] opinion of a Harvard lawyer, uh, Matt,
[00:48:14] what's your I think this is totally fine
[00:48:15] and awesome. What's your take?
[00:48:17] >> Yeah, I think it's great. I mean, please
[00:48:19] kill more. I I think I think here's what
[00:48:22] I'll say. blowing up blowing up a a a
[00:48:25] boat full of narotists or bringing
[00:48:28] poison into America and are part of a
[00:48:31] you know billion dollar criminal
[00:48:33] enterprise that is responsible for the
[00:48:35] deaths of thousands of Americans over
[00:48:37] the past decades. You know doing that is
[00:48:40] more defensible
[00:48:42] I think legally but certainly morally
[00:48:45] than anything the United States of
[00:48:47] America has ever done in the Middle East
[00:48:50] like ever. which is also why it's funny
[00:48:52] that to have someone like Mark Kelly out
[00:48:54] there uh complaining about this um when
[00:48:58] this again is more defensible than
[00:48:59] anything that he did when when he was in
[00:49:02] the in the Middle East when he was part
[00:49:03] of the Navy. I think he was talking
[00:49:04] about he was on MSNBC, I think, or CNN,
[00:49:07] one of the two, talking about when he
[00:49:10] was in the Navy, well, they uh they blew
[00:49:12] up, you know, he he was responsible for
[00:49:14] blowing up some Iraqi ships, but that
[00:49:17] was okay, he said, because, you know,
[00:49:19] they they were he was trying to kick
[00:49:20] them out of Kuwait. And so it was a good
[00:49:23] reason good reason to blow up the Iraqi
[00:49:25] ships to keep them out of Kuwait. Well,
[00:49:27] okay. So, so that's okay to keep the
[00:49:29] Iraq out of Kuwait so we could blow up
[00:49:31] ships, but to keep poison out of America
[00:49:34] that's killing actual Americans, that's
[00:49:36] a that's a problem. Um, so I to me it's
[00:49:39] it's like very clearly this is this is
[00:49:42] where the United States military should
[00:49:44] be most activated is in defending our
[00:49:48] actual homeland, like our actual
[00:49:50] physical country from things that are
[00:49:53] actually hurting and killing Americans
[00:49:55] directly. And uh once we've done that,
[00:49:57] then we could talk about the stuff
[00:49:58] that's happening thousands of miles
[00:50:00] away. But this to me is just uh pretty
[00:50:02] >> obvious. The alleged war crime was
[00:50:04] according to reporting, you know, so
[00:50:06] take it with a grain of salt. But they
[00:50:07] said there was a an oral order, not a
[00:50:10] written order, but an oral order from
[00:50:11] the Secretary of War to kill them all,
[00:50:14] you know, to not not like go and try to
[00:50:16] arrest them or, you know, give them a
[00:50:17] >> That's what you do. That's what you do
[00:50:18] with a miss. That's I I don't know that
[00:50:21] it's true that he said to kill the
[00:50:22] survivors in the water.
[00:50:23] >> No, he denies it. The White House denies
[00:50:25] it. But even if he did, but but so what?
[00:50:27] I mean, you you hit the boat with a
[00:50:28] missile. Obviously, you're trying to
[00:50:30] kill everybody. So what if some of them
[00:50:32] survive? You're just to be a good sport,
[00:50:34] you're supposed to send a rescue boat
[00:50:35] out to uh to rescue them. The whole
[00:50:37] point I'm pretty sure the missile the
[00:50:39] point was not like a practical joke or a
[00:50:41] fun prank. The point was to actually
[00:50:43] kill the people on the boat. If any are
[00:50:45] alive, then of course you kill them,
[00:50:46] too. It's like if you blow up a
[00:50:47] building, do you have to have
[00:50:48] firefighters on standby to put out the
[00:50:50] fire and rescue anyone who happens to be
[00:50:52] inside the building? The whole point was
[00:50:53] to kill the people inside it. I would
[00:50:55] think and assuming those people are
[00:50:57] actual terrorists who want to kill
[00:50:58] Americans, then it's totally legitimate.
[00:50:59] >> That's the Matt Walsh addendum to the
[00:51:01] Geneva Convention.
[00:51:01] >> Yeah, exactly.
[00:51:03] >> Uh so yeah, here here's where it gets a
[00:51:05] little dicey. So the there's the moral
[00:51:07] question of whether we should blow up
[00:51:08] drug boats and the answer of course is
[00:51:09] of course we should blow up as many drug
[00:51:11] boats as humanly possible like that that
[00:51:13] is an affirmative good for us to blow up
[00:51:15] drug boats with hellfire missiles. Very
[00:51:17] much pro. Then there is the the legal
[00:51:19] question. There are really two legal
[00:51:20] questions here. One is whether you need
[00:51:22] some sort of authorization from Congress
[00:51:24] to continue to blow up drug boats in the
[00:51:27] Caribbean when they're not like directly
[00:51:28] off of America shores and they're
[00:51:30] international waters and all the rest of
[00:51:31] this sort of thing. That's sort of
[00:51:32] question number one. You know, I'm of
[00:51:34] the legal opinion that you can totally
[00:51:36] blow up those those drug ships and that
[00:51:37] that that seems to be fairly well
[00:51:39] predicated at the very least. And then
[00:51:40] there's the secondary question which
[00:51:42] came up because of this Washington Post
[00:51:43] story. Under American domestic law,
[00:51:45] you're really not supposed to be killing
[00:51:46] people who are deemed to be out of
[00:51:49] combat. Right? That's the actual legal
[00:51:50] terminology. So, for example, if you're
[00:51:52] on a battlefield anywhere in the world
[00:51:54] and you shoot somebody and you've
[00:51:55] incapacitated them, they're unconscious
[00:51:56] on the battlefield, you're not allowed
[00:51:58] to like walk up to them while they're
[00:51:59] unconscious on the battlefield and puts
[00:52:00] you in their head, right? It's just not
[00:52:02] something that you're supposed to do
[00:52:03] because they've been rendered
[00:52:04] non-threatening. And so now there's kind
[00:52:06] of a debate over whether the boat was
[00:52:08] completely destroyed or whether it
[00:52:10] theoretically could have been salvaged,
[00:52:11] whether they had the ability to call up
[00:52:13] their other drug trafficking friends and
[00:52:14] have them come out and pick them up.
[00:52:16] That was kind of the best defense that I
[00:52:17] saw of this order if it was given. I I
[00:52:19] find it kind of hard to believe just on
[00:52:20] the merits that Pete Hexath would say
[00:52:22] kill everybody and nobody in the
[00:52:24] military line of command would say,
[00:52:25] "Okay, I just need some clarifications.
[00:52:27] You mean that we're supposed to, you
[00:52:28] know, just like kill floating bodies in
[00:52:30] the water or like what what are we
[00:52:31] talking about here?" And and to me, a
[00:52:33] lot of this report something smells
[00:52:35] about this. Here's what smells about
[00:52:36] this. It feels like a coordinated op.
[00:52:38] And what I mean by that is that the
[00:52:39] Democrats started with this you're not
[00:52:41] allowed to follow illegal order stuff
[00:52:43] last week, right? They put out this
[00:52:44] video the end of the week before last in
[00:52:47] which a bunch of Democratic Congress
[00:52:49] people and senators said, "If you're a
[00:52:50] member of the military, we're telling
[00:52:52] you you're not allowed to follow an
[00:52:53] illegal order." And everybody went,
[00:52:54] "What illegal orders are you talking
[00:52:56] about?" Right? Like you should actually
[00:52:58] name the order cuz it actually is pretty
[00:53:00] counterproductive if the idea is that
[00:53:02] we're only going to find out whether an
[00:53:03] order was illegal in your view when you
[00:53:04] gain power. How does anybody ever carry
[00:53:06] out an order at all? Right? because it
[00:53:08] could be a Democrat gets elected 2 3
[00:53:10] years from now and then turns around and
[00:53:12] says, "Oh, by the way, every order that
[00:53:14] you carried out for the last 10 years
[00:53:15] was illegal. All of you are going to
[00:53:16] jail." And so what you're really doing
[00:53:18] is creating a sort of bizarre Ferguson
[00:53:20] effect for the military where you
[00:53:21] remember by the police, the idea was
[00:53:23] that if you enforce the law, you might
[00:53:24] go to jail. So the police stopped
[00:53:25] enforcing the law. So our Democrats
[00:53:28] trying to tell members of the military
[00:53:29] that if they don't want to go to jail,
[00:53:31] they need to not actually do the thing
[00:53:32] they're supposed to do, which is carry
[00:53:34] out the orders of the commander in
[00:53:35] chief. It feels coordinated because they
[00:53:37] released that video and within a week
[00:53:38] and a half there's a story in the
[00:53:39] Washington Post about Pete Hegsath
[00:53:41] issuing a quote unquote illegal order
[00:53:43] to, you know, blow people out of the
[00:53:45] water. The whole thing kind of stinks to
[00:53:47] me as as a general matter. Do I think
[00:53:49] that it's illegal? Um, again, we'll have
[00:53:51] to see what the fact pattern is. This is
[00:53:52] where Congress has article one authority
[00:53:54] to actually investigate and determine
[00:53:56] who said what and when. Our sponsor
[00:53:57] Koshi shows prediction markets
[00:53:59] regarding, for example, which cabinet
[00:54:02] member is most likely to go. Pete Hexath
[00:54:04] right now at like 29%. But you know the
[00:54:07] reality is that I think this is a
[00:54:08] tempest in a teapot and it it also on
[00:54:11] the other hand kind of feels like that
[00:54:12] time when Trump deported a a wife abuser
[00:54:16] and then the entire left was like how
[00:54:18] dare he violate the law by deporting the
[00:54:20] wife abuser. And you know I just don't
[00:54:22] think that plays politically. How dare
[00:54:23] how dare you kill the narot traffickers
[00:54:25] who are trying to murder Americans with
[00:54:26] fentanyl doesn't seem to have I I don't
[00:54:28] know. It doesn't seem like a political
[00:54:29] winner to me.
[00:54:30] >> You know Walter Kern I thought had a
[00:54:31] really good take on this. He said he he
[00:54:33] thinks that maybe the war on drugs
[00:54:34] failed and now I actually I don't think
[00:54:36] the war on drugs failed. I think it
[00:54:38] actually was quite successful for a time
[00:54:39] and it the history has been rewritten.
[00:54:42] However, uh he says if it failed, you
[00:54:44] know, he thinks it failed because people
[00:54:47] they they're not used to seeing it like
[00:54:48] an actual war. In this case, we are
[00:54:50] fighting the war on drugs as as very
[00:54:53] closely like a war. Where it gets really
[00:54:55] weird to me though is even in in
[00:54:57] international law, which a lot of
[00:54:58] conservatives say is just bunk anyway.
[00:55:00] But if you grant some some legitimacy to
[00:55:03] international law, we're not signatories
[00:55:05] to the Rome Statute. So the
[00:55:06] international criminal court has no
[00:55:07] jurisdiction here. Uh we recognize a
[00:55:10] convention. But then you ask, okay,
[00:55:11] what's the point of the Geneva
[00:55:12] Convention? The Geneva Convention exists
[00:55:13] in large part to protect civilians in
[00:55:17] times of war. And so part of that is if
[00:55:19] you play by the rules of war, then you
[00:55:21] can have certain privileges. And if you
[00:55:24] don't, like if you're a terrorist and
[00:55:25] you target civilians and you act outside
[00:55:27] the norms of war, you don't really get
[00:55:28] those privileges. Mark Tissson years ago
[00:55:30] made the great point that if you extend
[00:55:32] Geneva Convention protections to
[00:55:33] terrorists, you actually totally
[00:55:35] undermine the Geneva Convention
[00:55:36] protections. So I I think that that's
[00:55:38] kind of interesting though. Even for
[00:55:39] terrorists, you I guess you're supposed
[00:55:41] to afford them some basic uh you know,
[00:55:43] privileges, notably not killing them if
[00:55:45] they're out of combat. And then to your
[00:55:46] point, Ben, on US domestic policy, you
[00:55:48] have the Uniform Code of Military
[00:55:49] Justice, which says, "Okay, US troops
[00:55:51] are not allowed to do X, Y, and Z."
[00:55:54] What's very interesting about this
[00:55:55] though is it would not really apply, in
[00:55:57] my understanding, to the Secretary of
[00:55:59] War because the Secretary of War is not
[00:56:01] is not one of the troops. He's he's a
[00:56:03] civilian who is who is in charge of that
[00:56:05] department. And so, it's it's all very
[00:56:08] very murky to me. And then I think,
[00:56:10] okay, well, let's get down to the brass
[00:56:11] tax of it all. These are foreign
[00:56:13] terrorist organizations formally
[00:56:15] declared so. Uh they're shipping poison
[00:56:18] into our country, killing 75,000
[00:56:20] Americans a year. We have exercised
[00:56:22] control over the Western Hemisphere for
[00:56:23] over 200 years. And I now the Democrats
[00:56:26] are on the side first they were on the
[00:56:28] side of the wife beater who got deported
[00:56:29] because he was an illegal alien, maybe a
[00:56:31] gangster, and now they're on the side of
[00:56:32] the narot terrorists. Is this really
[00:56:34] going to play well in the midterms or in
[00:56:36] 2028?
[00:56:37] >> Right. And I think and that's the big
[00:56:39] issue I think for the Democrats
[00:56:40] politically here is they keep glomming
[00:56:41] on to what they think are temporary wins
[00:56:43] that end up being long-term losses
[00:56:45] because they they're so into the idea
[00:56:47] that oh my gosh we got him on a
[00:56:48] procedural tic-tac foul and and and
[00:56:50] because we got him on a tic-tac fell the
[00:56:52] American people are going to be really
[00:56:53] really upset with name the American
[00:56:55] who's truly upset with Donald Trump for
[00:56:56] blowing narot traffickers out of the
[00:56:58] water. I I I cannot imagine who those
[00:57:00] people are unless you know they went to
[00:57:02] Berkeley. That that's pretty much like
[00:57:03] the entire constituency for that
[00:57:05] argument. It does raise, you know, one
[00:57:06] other question, which is it looks very
[00:57:08] much as though the Trump administration
[00:57:09] is trying to force Manura out in in
[00:57:11] Venezuela. And uh I'm I'm kind of for
[00:57:13] it. I mean, like I think that if we can
[00:57:15] do it without very much cost, you know,
[00:57:16] low blood and treasure, not a lot, you
[00:57:18] know, no boots on the ground or not a
[00:57:19] lot of boots on the ground, good things
[00:57:21] happening with with very little cost is
[00:57:23] is my game. I I kind of enjoy it. I
[00:57:25] think it's a good thing. Um, yeah, I I I
[00:57:26] really hope, let's put it this way, I
[00:57:28] hope that the CIA really does have
[00:57:30] somebody inside the Venezuelan
[00:57:31] government who's ready to push Maduro
[00:57:33] off the cliff here because if not, then
[00:57:36] this is an awful lot of resource
[00:57:38] expenditure for very little payoff in
[00:57:40] the end. And typically, if you're
[00:57:41] talking about a coup in Latin or South
[00:57:43] America, you have to have somebody
[00:57:44] inside the army or at least elites
[00:57:46] inside the the kind of top echelon who
[00:57:49] are willing to push the guy out.
[00:57:50] Otherwise, Maduro is just going to sit
[00:57:52] there and and be and be okay.
[00:57:54] >> Yeah. You know, Americans are sick of
[00:57:56] regime change, certainly in the Middle
[00:57:57] East. It's a little different in Latin
[00:57:59] America because we've been doing that
[00:58:00] for a very, very long time, and it's
[00:58:02] closer to our interests. Uh, Matt, where
[00:58:04] I don't know, where do you fall on this?
[00:58:05] Are you Are you ready for regime change
[00:58:07] in Latin America?
[00:58:08] >> Yeah, I I don't know. I'm always I'm
[00:58:10] always skeptical of uh of regime change.
[00:58:12] I I do I kind of agree with you that
[00:58:14] it's if it's closer to home, you can
[00:58:16] make a a better argument for it actually
[00:58:20] advancing American interests. When I say
[00:58:22] American interest, I mean the the
[00:58:23] interests of actual Americans, like
[00:58:24] American families. Still, I think it's
[00:58:26] still still kind of hard to make that
[00:58:27] argument. And if you were if someone was
[00:58:29] going to make that argument, I wouldn't
[00:58:30] be the one to make it. Uh I think just
[00:58:32] politically, well, practically and also
[00:58:35] politically, uh I I think the focus
[00:58:37] should stay on the narot terrorists. Um
[00:58:40] that's a that's a winner. It's a winner
[00:58:41] for Americans most importantly. And as
[00:58:44] you already pointed out, it's it's just
[00:58:45] a it's a political winner because this
[00:58:47] is this is the genius of it from a
[00:58:49] political standpoint is that they're
[00:58:50] kind of backing Democrats into a corner
[00:58:52] of uh being defenders of uh of drug
[00:58:56] traffickers. And I don't know what
[00:58:57] polling has been done on this, but I
[00:58:59] just I'm sure there's been some polling
[00:59:00] on it. I just find it hard to believe
[00:59:02] that there's any American in the like
[00:59:06] actual American who's uh waking up at
[00:59:08] night worried about the fate of uh of
[00:59:11] narotist. I think I think we all have
[00:59:13] the same feeling of we're just we're
[00:59:14] just like we're sick of this. Why are we
[00:59:16] allowing, you know, why are we allowing
[00:59:18] this scenario where these billion dollar
[00:59:21] criminal criminal enterprises uh are are
[00:59:24] able to kill tens of thousands of
[00:59:27] Americans. We don't have to allow it. I
[00:59:29] mean, we're the United States of
[00:59:30] America. We have the most powerful
[00:59:31] military on the planet. We don't we
[00:59:33] don't this is a choice. We don't have to
[00:59:35] allow this. And uh and I think that's
[00:59:37] where almost every American stands.
[00:59:39] >> Yeah. This is, you know, this gets down
[00:59:42] to a deeper divide that's within MAGA,
[00:59:45] which is there even we people talk about
[00:59:47] like the neocons versus the populists
[00:59:49] and that's that's an interesting divide
[00:59:51] too. But at an even deeper level, there
[00:59:54] is this diff debate over what America
[00:59:56] first means. And there's America first
[00:59:58] which has this hard nationalist
[01:00:01] bordering on isolationist point of view.
[01:00:03] And I don't think that's what Trump is.
[01:00:05] I think Trump has an America first much
[01:00:08] more imperialist kind of view which is
[01:00:10] different than the neocons who were kind
[01:00:11] of liberal imperialists who wanted to
[01:00:13] sprout uponian democracy everywhere. I
[01:00:15] think Trump is is much more like a a big
[01:00:18] leader of the global hedgeimon and I
[01:00:20] think that's why he wants Greenland. I
[01:00:21] think that's why he's threatened to
[01:00:22] invade Canada and I think that's why he
[01:00:24] throws his weight around on the world
[01:00:25] stage for the benefit of Americans. Not
[01:00:28] for abstract ideology but explicitly for
[01:00:30] the benefit of Americans. And I think
[01:00:32] look, we are the world empire and that's
[01:00:34] just a fact. And we've exerted control
[01:00:36] in our hemisphere for a very long time.
[01:00:38] And so if Maduro is willing to play ball
[01:00:40] with us, that's one thing. If he's not,
[01:00:42] if he's going to work with our enemies,
[01:00:43] if he's going to ship drugs up into our
[01:00:45] country, well then maybe we don't need
[01:00:47] to tolerate him. And also and also the
[01:00:50] other thing too is and I think you
[01:00:51] alluded to it that you know the the
[01:00:53] argument against it as I I I think most
[01:00:56] Americans are not up at night worried
[01:00:57] about narot terrorists but there are
[01:00:59] some people who have this libertarian
[01:01:01] view that well the the war on drugs
[01:01:03] failed and that that is a very common
[01:01:04] view.
[01:01:05] >> Yes. And my my my view of that is like
[01:01:07] well the war on drugs the war on drugs
[01:01:09] was never tried. I mean we we never
[01:01:11] actually went to war against drugs. And
[01:01:13] I think it it's kind of like that scene
[01:01:15] in uh in Breaking Bad where you know
[01:01:18] where where Mike says, you know, no more
[01:01:21] half measures. If you're going to do it,
[01:01:22] it's got like either do it or don't. You
[01:01:25] can't have a half measure. And when it
[01:01:26] comes to the quote unquote war on drugs,
[01:01:27] it strikes me that it was it's kind of
[01:01:30] been a at most a half measure of the
[01:01:33] '90s.
[01:01:35] >> War drugs means you got to take the war
[01:01:36] to the to the actual drug traffick.
[01:01:39] I mean, I think that that every time we
[01:01:40] declare a war on a concept, it is bound
[01:01:42] to fail, right? If you declare war on
[01:01:44] poverty, you can't defeat poverty. If
[01:01:45] you declare a war on drugs, that's an
[01:01:46] object. A war on terrorism, right? Like,
[01:01:48] it has to be a war on the drug
[01:01:50] traffickers, right? War on drug cartels.
[01:01:52] Like, these are material things that the
[01:01:54] mater that our military, which is
[01:01:55] excellent at finding things, breaking
[01:01:57] them, and destroying them that they can
[01:01:59] actually go and do like not so good at
[01:02:01] stopping people's drug habits, really,
[01:02:03] really good at blowing up naroterrorist
[01:02:04] boats in the middle of the Caribbean.
[01:02:06] And so it seems to me we should, you
[01:02:07] know, do what what our skill set sort of
[01:02:09] suggests that we should do with the
[01:02:10] American military, which is, you know,
[01:02:12] break things. I think that we're really
[01:02:14] really good at breaking things and we're
[01:02:15] less good at putting things back
[01:02:16] together. Which is why I say about
[01:02:17] Venezuela that I really hope that
[01:02:18] there's something waiting in the wings
[01:02:20] to take over when there is or if there
[01:02:22] is a regime change. I I don't think, by
[01:02:24] the way, my ideology of regime change is
[01:02:25] not that we have to have democracy
[01:02:27] everywhere. I think we need a regime
[01:02:28] that's better for America everywhere
[01:02:29] that it's possible for there to be a
[01:02:30] regime. And again, the key word there is
[01:02:32] possible. And there you have to
[01:02:34] calculate riskreward, right? What are we
[01:02:35] risking? on what's the the upside
[01:02:37] reward. I think any realist would
[01:02:39] suggest that there are certain rewards
[01:02:41] that are not worth the risk and there
[01:02:42] are certain risks that are not worth the
[01:02:44] reward. And and so I think that when
[01:02:45] when you look at Venezuela, if you're
[01:02:47] talking about a very small pin prick
[01:02:49] military intervention and then Maduro
[01:02:51] goes bye-bye and suddenly you have a
[01:02:52] friendlier regime there that's going to
[01:02:53] denationalize the oil industry for
[01:02:55] example and crack down on the narot
[01:02:57] traffickers. That sounds pretty good to
[01:02:59] me. If you're talking about 100,000
[01:03:00] troops, that's a completely different
[01:03:01] story. And the same thing is true about
[01:03:03] interventions literally anywhere else on
[01:03:04] Earth. If what you're talking about is
[01:03:06] one bullet finishing a problem, I'm very
[01:03:09] much for it. If what you're talking
[01:03:10] about is 100,000 troops finishing the
[01:03:11] problem, I'm very much against it. This
[01:03:12] is
[01:03:12] >> But then the question of course becomes,
[01:03:14] I mean, you mentioned CIA uh, you know,
[01:03:17] activities within Latin America and
[01:03:18] maybe within Venezuela. The question
[01:03:20] then becomes, is the CIA, James Bond,
[01:03:23] Jason Bourne, efficient, ruthless,
[01:03:26] controls everything, or is the CIA burn
[01:03:29] after reading? [laughter] just every
[01:03:31] time it tries to do something it just
[01:03:32] gets worse and worse and no one has any
[01:03:34] idea what's going on and I don't I I no
[01:03:37] knock look there are very heroic people
[01:03:38] who have worked for the CIA CIA has also
[01:03:40] done very bungled things I if not to be
[01:03:43] like a huge cop out here there's
[01:03:45] evidence for both I I think let's put it
[01:03:48] this way the the the evidence from the
[01:03:50] 50s of uh the former is much better than
[01:03:52] the evidence today for the former I I
[01:03:54] I'm I'm much closer to the burn after
[01:03:56] reading version of the CIA today than I
[01:03:58] would have been prior to the last 25
[01:04:00] years of American history. For sure.
[01:04:03] >> All right, so I guess we're not go I do
[01:04:04] want the oil, though. I want the oil.
[01:04:05] And I actually love that Trump is open
[01:04:07] about
[01:04:07] >> this. Actually, is one of my favorite
[01:04:08] things about Trump. I really I really
[01:04:09] like that. I like when he when he was
[01:04:10] talking about the war in Iraq even. He's
[01:04:12] like it it wasn't a war for oil, but
[01:04:13] maybe it should have been.
[01:04:14] >> Maybe it should have been. You want to
[01:04:15] deal with affordability? Let's get that
[01:04:17] oil. How about How about that? Why do we
[01:04:19] give we give everything away to the
[01:04:20] whole world? Okay. All in the spirit of
[01:04:22] Thanksgiving. Give us your oil. Okay. Uh
[01:04:24] that's it. That's our show. Uh you When
[01:04:26] are we back on? I think we're doing
[01:04:27] another one tomorrow. Is that right? No.
[01:04:29] No, I can't catch you too. Okay. Uh,
[01:04:30] maybe within two weeks. Good to see
[01:04:32] everybody. Everyone else out there.
[01:04:33] We'll see you next time on Friendly
[01:04:35] Fire.
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