Saudi Arabia Just Said NO to Israel and the US | Sharmine Narwani

[00:00:07] [music] [00:00:08] The United States is trying to shape the [00:00:10] Middle East in the image it wants. From [00:00:13] pushing through its plan for Gaz at the [00:00:15] United Nations to pulling Syria and [00:00:17] Saudi Arabia closer into its orbit, our [00:00:21] anti-war President Donald Trump may soon [00:00:23] get the Middle East that he wants. But [00:00:26] he won't get it all on his own way. [00:00:28] forces from Iran to Yemen and beyond [00:00:31] still oppose Trump's plans and continue [00:00:34] to fight against it. All the while, [00:00:36] Israel continues to expand its control [00:00:38] of Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, and [00:00:41] beyond. And here to talk to me today [00:00:43] about the world's most tumultuous region [00:00:46] is Charmaine Narwani. She is a [00:00:48] journalist and political analyst who [00:00:50] serves as the editor of The Cradle. [00:00:53] Welcome to the show, Charmaine. [00:00:56] >> Thank you, Manar. It's really good to do [00:00:57] this again. [00:00:59] >> Yes. Always good to hear from you, [00:01:00] Charmaine. I always learn so much from [00:01:02] you and your team at the Cradle. Israel [00:01:05] has been bombing Lebanon almost on a [00:01:07] daily basis. They've [00:01:09] >> committed such horrific crimes there and [00:01:11] this is such a major form of [00:01:13] intimidation because [00:01:16] not really responded to Israel in this [00:01:19] provocation. So even as the major powers [00:01:23] at the UN seem to be uh going along with [00:01:26] Trump's plan, his Gaza plan, and the [00:01:29] ceasefire, Israel continues to press [00:01:31] forward. I mean, just yesterday, the IDF [00:01:33] attacked UN peacekeepers inside of [00:01:35] Lebanon. They are opening fire at them [00:01:38] from close range from their positions [00:01:41] occupying southern Lebanon. I mean it it [00:01:43] appears that Israel has total immunity [00:01:45] from criticism and censure because of [00:01:48] its powerful backers in Washington. So [00:01:51] can you talk to us more about these [00:01:53] developments inside of South Lebanon and [00:01:55] what do you think is next? [00:01:58] Well, I I mean I think almost from the [00:02:00] get-go when the ceasefire happened took [00:02:03] place with Lebanon late last year um you [00:02:06] saw violations. Um Israel escalates it. [00:02:11] It seeks to groom and tame people to [00:02:15] accept its violations, its bad behavior. [00:02:19] Um, we've written extensively about this [00:02:22] at the Cradle, uh, that, you know, [00:02:25] Israel always crosses a little line, [00:02:27] then crosses a bigger line, and then [00:02:30] crosses, you know, eventually making its [00:02:32] way to cross all red lines. Um, I mean, [00:02:35] one thing we've learned from this is a [00:02:37] ceasefire with Israel, a a negotiated [00:02:40] ceasefire with Israel, is not worth the [00:02:43] paper it's printed on. If you look at [00:02:46] what transpired after the 12-day war [00:02:48] between Iran and Israel, um, there was [00:02:51] no negotiated settlement. There was just [00:02:54] a seizing of fire on the spot. Correct. [00:02:58] So there was when I say there was no [00:03:01] negotiated settlement. So what happens [00:03:02] is the Israelis uh you know they you [00:03:06] have a settlement in writing. Okay. And [00:03:10] you know what the rules-based order is [00:03:12] the international rules-based order that [00:03:14] the west has been talking about for well [00:03:16] over a decade. It just means um we can [00:03:21] operate differently than you can. It's [00:03:24] not they never talk about a law- based [00:03:25] order because law is very clear-cut. all [00:03:28] UN member states, all nation states have [00:03:31] to abide by one set of laws. A [00:03:33] rules-based order just means um [00:03:36] different sets of um operating for [00:03:40] different actors. And you know, in in [00:03:43] this case, if it's if you have a written [00:03:45] negotiation [00:03:46] and your adversary, meaning Israel's [00:03:49] adversary, uh violates it even in the [00:03:52] slightest, right, they will point to [00:03:55] that and make a big deal about it. But [00:03:57] they violated and the backers of these [00:04:00] agreements, the United States, will [00:04:02] never call Israel out. You know, in in [00:04:05] uh there was a bit of an uproar in [00:04:08] Lebanon [00:04:09] uh on on uh Monday, I think it was, when [00:04:14] the Lebanese army commander commander [00:04:17] Rudolfph Ho, he um basically called [00:04:24] Israel the enemy, right? in in his [00:04:27] discussions. Um he [00:04:31] did he write a letter? He he he oh he [00:04:33] issued the Lebanese army issued a [00:04:35] statement on Sunday um which made [00:04:38] Israeli officials see red um because [00:04:41] they basically operate for Israel in the [00:04:44] Lebanese theater because the Lebanese [00:04:46] army statement blamed the quote unquote [00:04:49] Israeli enemy for the violation of the [00:04:52] Lebanese sovereignity and for [00:04:54] obstructing the army's full deployment [00:04:56] in the south. They couldn't believe that [00:05:00] the Lebanese army commander had the [00:05:02] audacity to call Israel the Israeli [00:05:06] enemy, okay? Or just simply the enemy. [00:05:09] That is the language of the resistance, [00:05:11] okay? And it is the old language of [00:05:13] Lebanon. Lebanon, you know, before [00:05:15] October 7th and all the shenanigans that [00:05:18] have spread throughout the region. Um, [00:05:20] it was essentially [00:05:23] uh the army, the people, and the [00:05:26] resistance. Okay, this sort of trifecta, [00:05:29] right? This this everybody had to abide [00:05:31] by this. And Israel was the declared [00:05:35] enemy of the of the Lebanese state. And [00:05:38] so by him even saying this, I mean the [00:05:40] Americans just canceled all meetings [00:05:42] with him with the Lebanese army [00:05:44] commander. Okay. Um and uh you know [00:05:49] Morgan Ortegus went into [00:05:52] a catatonic state and you know and then [00:05:55] lashed out. Uh he he has refused [00:05:58] repeatedly [00:06:00] um US demands to raid civilian homes in [00:06:03] the south uh to search for Hezbollah's [00:06:06] weapons. His argument is that if they do [00:06:10] it once, this will only prompt is prompt [00:06:12] Israel to come back and ask for more. It [00:06:14] goes back to what I was saying earlier. [00:06:16] Israel grooms and tames people to expect [00:06:19] and accept its bad behavior. So, um he [00:06:23] wasn't going to allow this to become [00:06:25] normalized, right? Uh search this home, [00:06:27] search that home, go under this tree, go [00:06:29] under that grove. Um and in fact, the [00:06:32] Lebanese army has complied by the [00:06:35] agreement. you know, they have gone in [00:06:37] and disarmed weapons where they were [00:06:40] identified and they have done their own [00:06:42] search and seizures, right? So, they've [00:06:45] been cooperative and the resistance, as [00:06:47] you point out, has not launched a single [00:06:51] um retaliatory strike back at Israel. [00:06:53] This is why I think that negotiated [00:06:56] settlements with this enemy or this set [00:06:58] of enemies does us no good. you have to [00:07:02] just cease fire [00:07:04] um with the understanding that the [00:07:06] slightest provocation will restart the [00:07:09] fire, right? So the onus cannot be [00:07:12] placed back on us over and over again. [00:07:14] So of course today Israel is bombing la [00:07:17] Gaza left, right and center. You know, [00:07:18] they always say it is we we um we [00:07:22] withhold the right to um to basically, [00:07:26] you know, target our enemy and achieve [00:07:29] our war goals, which is to eradicate [00:07:31] Hamas. Well, you can't. There's a [00:07:33] ceasefire. You know, there's two sets of [00:07:35] rules for for both sides of these [00:07:38] agreements. Um and one has the [00:07:40] rules-based order behind it, and the [00:07:42] other one is expected to cleave um to to [00:07:46] those rules. and uh it's not working [00:07:48] out. But in Lebanon, there's also I mean [00:07:50] there's been there's been talk, you [00:07:52] know, angry talk among Americans uh [00:07:55] about replacing Nabi Berry, who is the [00:07:58] speaker of the house, a position uh [00:08:00] reserved for um Shia candidate in in [00:08:05] Lebanon because everything in Lebanon is [00:08:07] um you know based on sect. So the [00:08:10] president is a Marinite Christian, the [00:08:13] prime minister is a Sunni and the [00:08:15] speaker of parliament is a Shia. So they [00:08:17] want to replace him even though he's [00:08:19] been a very um you know a friend of the [00:08:23] Americans for many many years. He's [00:08:25] always had an open door to them and he's [00:08:28] been an important mediator um between [00:08:30] the resistance and um others you know u [00:08:34] opposing forces. So, um they want to [00:08:38] they they want to erase him because [00:08:41] um he's not playing ball, but he can't. [00:08:44] I mean, the thing is, you know, at the [00:08:46] cradle, we were saying from the [00:08:47] beginning, nobody's going to be able to [00:08:50] enforce um this American Israeli desire [00:08:54] to disarm the resistance, you might as [00:08:56] well take out Joseph Aun now, you know. [00:08:59] But if you put in someone like the [00:09:00] right-wing [00:09:02] um you know Saja, [00:09:05] he still wouldn't be able to enforce it [00:09:07] unless he kicked off a civil war and [00:09:10] then his side would probably lose you [00:09:12] know but Lebanon would be even more [00:09:13] chaos. So um the Americans are kicking [00:09:16] and screaming basically they don't like [00:09:19] the fact that in their view there's been [00:09:21] no acceleration of um disarming the [00:09:24] resistance um but things have sort of [00:09:26] stayed in place. Uh the the Lebanese are [00:09:29] following the agreement to the letter. [00:09:32] Okay. Um the Israelis are not allowing [00:09:35] Lebanese army soldiers to deploy in [00:09:36] certain areas. They're they're doing [00:09:39] more and more territorial grabs if [00:09:41] anything. Right. So um at some point, [00:09:44] you know, I think it's important to push [00:09:46] back against the American demands and be [00:09:48] like, well, we can't move either way. [00:09:50] You know, it's very interesting. I was [00:09:51] thinking I was away from Lebanon for a [00:09:54] few months and on my way back I was [00:09:57] thinking you know in a sense that the [00:09:59] only country that can maybe stop the [00:10:03] Americans from greenlighting a complete [00:10:06] Israeli escalation on Lebanon and a full [00:10:09] full-on war again is is Saudi Arabia. [00:10:12] You know this was always the Saudis have [00:10:15] always viewed Lebanon as their stomping [00:10:17] ground. um they exited the theater for a [00:10:21] few years and now they've come back. But [00:10:24] I think like a lot of um Arabs and [00:10:26] Muslims in this region, there's um you [00:10:29] know there are discussions about the [00:10:32] expanding Israeli threat, Israel's [00:10:34] biggest mistake. Um, and I think they [00:10:38] acknowledge this now pretty much at [00:10:39] least internally is you know trying to [00:10:42] strike Qatar that woke up Persian Gulf [00:10:45] countries that were sort of like you [00:10:47] know being dragged along the Abraham [00:10:50] Accords road right um they they realized [00:10:55] that there was no stopping this country [00:10:56] there were no red lines you know Israel [00:10:59] saw no red lines um and so the Gataris [00:11:03] got an apology from Netanyahu you might [00:11:06] not think that's a big deal. But how [00:11:07] many people has Netanyahu who ever [00:11:09] apologized to? Um he was forced to [00:11:12] apologize to the Amir. Theataris got out [00:11:15] of this a um US defense pact, right? And [00:11:20] they made a big storm about this. [00:11:23] The Qataris did not let this go. And so [00:11:26] I think you know there's um [00:11:30] there's people people are you know the [00:11:34] Saudis certainly after the hitting of [00:11:36] Qatar and they're no great friends the [00:11:38] Saudis and Gataris but the Saudis um [00:11:42] understood that you couldn't play ball [00:11:44] with this administration. I I don't know [00:11:46] if you noticed, you know, a lot of [00:11:47] people don't talk about this manar, but [00:11:49] we understand that there's a Saudi [00:11:51] condition on normalization with Israel [00:11:54] and it is not just a written agreement, [00:11:57] a pathway to a Palestinian state, but [00:12:00] actual movement towards the creation of [00:12:02] a state. Okay. Um, but the Saudis [00:12:05] introduced um new conditional language [00:12:09] earlier this year that kind of went [00:12:11] unnoticed. The Saudis specifically said [00:12:15] not with this Israeli cabinet. [00:12:19] Okay. Um [00:12:22] I think Trump has realized I don't know [00:12:24] if you saw the White House statement on [00:12:26] the discussions between Trump and uh [00:12:30] Saudi Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman, [00:12:32] but the White House issued a statement. [00:12:34] It is such a strange statement. I mean, [00:12:37] there's a lot of like, you know, um, [00:12:39] we've set up an agreement to negotiate [00:12:43] blah blah blah. There's a lot of like [00:12:45] things in the works, but nothing nothing [00:12:48] super clearcut. You know, no major gain [00:12:51] for the Saudis, no major gain certainly [00:12:54] for the Americans. You know, any idea of [00:12:56] normalizations sounds like it's off the [00:12:58] table now. You know, I think the Saudis [00:13:00] have stuck to their guns and yet they [00:13:03] got things from the Americans. the [00:13:04] Americans are going to um create uh [00:13:09] nuclear facilities for Saudis, you know, [00:13:12] to enhance their electricity, you know, [00:13:16] domestic electricity needs. Um, of [00:13:19] course, the Americans will never give [00:13:21] enrichment capacity and capability to [00:13:23] the Saudis directly. The Americans also [00:13:26] gave the Saudis, you know, an an [00:13:28] agreement to um to to purchase F-35s. [00:13:34] Um, you know, it seems that the [00:13:35] Americans made a lot more concessions [00:13:37] and the the Saudis stood stood their [00:13:39] ground. You know, there's nothing no [00:13:41] clear-cut US gain. Certainly not for [00:13:43] Israel on this um out out of this. So I [00:13:47] think basically the Saudis um also don't [00:13:50] want the Israelis [00:13:52] in the south of Lebanon, in the south of [00:13:55] Syria, you know, um sort of entrenched [00:13:59] with uh very corrupt Kurdish leaders in [00:14:02] Iraq where at the same time the Turks [00:14:06] are in the north of Iraq, okay? Like [00:14:08] literally occupying the country. They [00:14:09] have military bases there. The Turks [00:14:11] control the northern part of Syria and [00:14:14] oftenimes control Damascus. The Turks [00:14:16] are trying to gain um control and [00:14:20] influence in the northern part of [00:14:21] Lebanon very strongly. There have been [00:14:24] calls for Tripoli to basically be [00:14:26] absorbed by Syria, its natural home, you [00:14:29] know. So, I don't think the Saudis, you [00:14:32] know, they have a fight not just with [00:14:34] the Israelis on these things, but also [00:14:36] with the Turks, with their um Arab [00:14:39] competitors. Um, and I don't think as a [00:14:42] result, I believe that the only ones [00:14:44] right now who could step up if they [00:14:47] chose to and and and actually have the [00:14:49] the ear of Donald Trump because the [00:14:51] Saudis are promising almost a mill a [00:14:54] trillion dollars worth of investments in [00:14:57] the United States to him, right? We'll [00:14:59] see if that transpires. Like all these [00:15:01] promises, they're more likeus, [00:15:04] memorandum of, you know, understandings [00:15:06] than actual deals, you know, with [00:15:08] deadlines, etc. So, the Saudis clearly [00:15:11] have Trump's ears um as do many of the [00:15:14] Gulf Arab states he visited on his tour [00:15:16] in May. And um they can say, "Look, it's [00:15:19] too much." And Trump is already getting [00:15:21] tired, and we've seen this, of Israel's [00:15:25] constant demands, not willing to give [00:15:27] anything in return, embarrassing Trump. [00:15:30] You know, obviously the Gaza ceasefire [00:15:32] is not really a ceasefire. They're [00:15:34] trying to scuttle, you know, all [00:15:36] elements of this plan from the removal [00:15:38] of Israeli um uh forces from the [00:15:42] entirety of Gaza to the um distribution [00:15:45] of aid right through through to the Gaza [00:15:48] Strip. I mean, for me, I sort of fell [00:15:50] off my chair when I heard just what a [00:15:53] week or two ago that the Americans [00:15:55] um were looking at taking over aid [00:16:00] arrival and distribution in Gaza. [00:16:03] Never would Netanyahu want to allow [00:16:05] this. You know, talks about the Israelis [00:16:07] setting up a military encampment slash [00:16:10] base right on the border with Gaza. [00:16:12] Israel has never allowed a US military [00:16:15] base in Israel. You know, there are [00:16:17] tensions there and you have to read [00:16:19] these kind of thing uh messages to [00:16:22] understand that. So, if they go full [00:16:24] force into Lebanon, you know, I think [00:16:28] the Saudis are going to have something [00:16:29] to say about this, you know, and and [00:16:32] let's see. It's not getting easier for [00:16:35] Israel. Okay. I I want to say that I [00:16:38] mean, I just was watching this amazing [00:16:40] series, which you should watch, Manar, [00:16:42] and all your viewers, um, on Mondo [00:16:45] Weiss's, I think, YouTube channel. It's [00:16:48] called Israel Zombie Economy by a an [00:16:51] Israeli economist who gave up his [00:16:53] citizenship. Lives in Germany now, very [00:16:55] very good. Shiv something or other. Can [00:16:58] never remember his last name. And he um [00:17:02] exposes something that really any [00:17:04] journalist could have done some digging [00:17:05] and found this out. He basically says [00:17:08] that the Israelis were getting free [00:17:09] weapons under the Biden administration [00:17:11] right after October 7th. Americans, [00:17:14] Biden was just sending them what they [00:17:16] needed. Trump is making them pay for it. [00:17:20] You know, of course, Trump is trying to [00:17:22] make everyone pay for the weapons, [00:17:24] right? Europe to pay for we American [00:17:26] weapons in Ukraine, but he's making [00:17:28] Israel pay for US weapons. How is Israel [00:17:31] financing this? Because they do in [00:17:33] effect have, as the title of the show [00:17:35] suggests, a zombie economy. Is they're [00:17:38] issuing like bonds and things that, you [00:17:40] know, American [00:17:42] um retirement funds and stuff are still [00:17:45] buying. that's not going to last long. [00:17:47] You know, the uh the inability for [00:17:49] Israelis to pay back is going to become [00:17:52] more and more clear. Okay. And um [00:17:55] there's not going to be a a infinite [00:17:59] pipeline of weapons to Israel unless it [00:18:02] pays for them. Um plus none of this is [00:18:06] possible at all without the Americans [00:18:09] behind, you know, having Israel's back. [00:18:12] And as the Americans tire of Israel's [00:18:14] positions on things, and as do the um [00:18:17] Saudis and other Gulf countries, etc., [00:18:20] typical Israeli allies in this region, [00:18:23] um I think we'll see a slowdown. But [00:18:25] right now, Israel still in, you know, [00:18:27] just bomb everywhere mode everywhere, [00:18:29] right? Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, um Yemen. [00:18:33] Um now, Syria is interesting because as [00:18:36] I mentioned before the show started, uh [00:18:39] the Cradle had an exclusive today. Uh [00:18:41] and it was basically that the Russians [00:18:44] are about to reestablish nine military [00:18:48] positions, Russian military positions in [00:18:51] Syria's Katra governorit. The Kunetra [00:18:54] governoret is where you know borders the [00:18:57] Golan Heights. It is where a large [00:19:00] community of Syrian Drews lived live. Um [00:19:04] it's you know where Israel has tried to [00:19:06] make absolute inroads. And question is [00:19:10] why are the Russians there? The Russians [00:19:12] by the way as the cradle sources have [00:19:14] revealed to us um are not negotiating [00:19:18] this with Turkey in the room. They've [00:19:21] been negotiating this directly with um [00:19:24] the Syrian president's office in [00:19:26] Damascus. So that's a new um you know [00:19:31] component to consider when we're looking [00:19:33] at the Levant as a whole. Are they in [00:19:35] there? I mean, ostensibly the Israelis [00:19:38] have agreed to this. They want to keep [00:19:41] um, you know, on good terms with Russian [00:19:44] President Vladimir Putin. I don't know [00:19:46] that the Israelis had any choice. [00:19:49] They're certainly trying to um, [00:19:53] position [clears throat] this as [00:19:56] something the Israelis would like so [00:19:58] that they didn't have Syrian elements, [00:20:01] you know, [00:20:02] >> at at their at their border. Um, which [00:20:04] is rubbish. The Syrians have not pushed [00:20:07] back remotely in these, you know, months [00:20:10] and months of, well, a year now almost [00:20:11] of Israeli attacks in Syria. They're not [00:20:14] afraid of uh Ahmed al-Shara and his [00:20:17] forces. Certainly not. But Ahmed Al- [00:20:20] Shara flew to Moscow to meet with Putin [00:20:24] right in in the fall to ask for help [00:20:27] because nobody would be able to stop the [00:20:30] Israeli onslaught, especially with [00:20:33] American criticizing them except the [00:20:35] Russians. You know, for instance, why [00:20:38] have the UAE and basically all Arab [00:20:40] countries refuses refused to send in [00:20:42] their military forces to act as [00:20:45] peacekeepers in Gaza? because they're [00:20:48] brown and Israel will kill them without [00:20:50] a thought, right? But you put Russian [00:20:52] soldiers in there and Israel thinks it [00:20:55] twice. So whatever, however the Israelis [00:20:57] seek to spin this, they are not going to [00:21:00] be happy with Russian U military [00:21:02] positions in southern Syria right on [00:21:04] their border. [00:21:06] Well, Charmaine, you are just on fire [00:21:07] today because you basically summed up an [00:21:10] entire region for us and kind of beat me [00:21:12] to some of the the questions and answers [00:21:14] that I was going to um ask you about. [00:21:16] But, you know, there's a lot to unpack [00:21:18] with everything that you talked about [00:21:20] from Saudi Arabia to the rules-based [00:21:22] order being exposed. And I think what [00:21:24] Israel really did in this genocide is um [00:21:28] you know they've exposed and the way [00:21:30] that the United States responded this [00:21:32] genocide exposed the moral depravity of [00:21:35] the so-called rules-based order and that [00:21:38] the rules are only applying to a certain [00:21:41] group of people and not to others just [00:21:42] like you you described. And the the [00:21:45] really beautiful thing about that is [00:21:46] that humanity has woken up to the true [00:21:49] face of US and Israeli imperialism. And [00:21:52] I find it really interesting that you [00:21:54] mentioned that Biden was just giving [00:21:56] away um these weapons to Israel um uh as [00:22:00] Israel needed them while Trump is now um [00:22:04] you know forcing Israel to pay for these [00:22:06] weapons and that Saudi Arabia is kind of [00:22:08] one of the main uh drivers of the [00:22:12] foreign policy situation inside of [00:22:15] inside of um the Middle East. And so I [00:22:18] think when we looked at like the [00:22:20] coverage coming from corporate [00:22:21] mainstream media with uh Trump's meeting [00:22:24] with uh NBS, the main focus of the [00:22:27] coverage was about NBS's convers or his [00:22:29] comments on um Kosigible Jamal [00:22:33] Kosigible's um murder by the Saudis, [00:22:36] which by the way they installed the [00:22:38] NSO's Pegasus software on his phone to [00:22:40] track him and then to kill him. But the [00:22:44] main conversation about Israel and the [00:22:47] Abraham Accords and what they really [00:22:50] wanted for Syria wasn't really talked [00:22:52] about within mainstream coverage. And so [00:22:54] you touched on that, but I want to [00:22:56] actually focus on some of that a little [00:22:58] bit more um because uh Saudi Arabia does [00:23:02] have a heavy hand when it comes to what [00:23:04] takes place in the Middle East. A lot of [00:23:07] people, you know, they look at the UAE [00:23:10] as now kind of leading the way, but I [00:23:13] think the UAE really just mirrors [00:23:15] whatever Israel wants at this point. I [00:23:17] mean, they've became like their little [00:23:18] puppy where they can just do whatever [00:23:20] Israel wants in terms of security and [00:23:22] negotiations, but Saudi Arabia actually [00:23:24] does have a bit of a stronger hand in [00:23:27] influencing US foreign policy. So, if [00:23:29] you can just talk a little bit more [00:23:31] about that and what did Saudi Arabia [00:23:34] really get out of this meeting with [00:23:37] Trump um this these past couple of days [00:23:40] and what it could mean for Syria? [00:23:44] >> Well, I think that like I said, the [00:23:46] Saudis kind of got some things they've [00:23:48] been asking for for a really long time [00:23:50] um without there being a clear um US [00:23:55] reward for it. I mean, like I said, [00:23:56] Trump said, "We're getting almost $1 [00:23:57] trillion from the Saudis, which is up [00:24:00] from the 600 billion promised earlier." [00:24:03] Where is that? It's not in bags of cash. [00:24:06] It comes it gets eaked out, you know, [00:24:09] with all the Gulf countries, by the way. [00:24:11] It's not like when he announced we're [00:24:12] getting trillions of dollars from the [00:24:14] these Arab countries that that's what [00:24:16] they received. It's not the case. Um, I [00:24:20] don't know that the Saudis had Lebanon [00:24:22] on at the top of their wish list. It [00:24:24] would have to be something that's on top [00:24:26] of their wish list in order for the US [00:24:28] president to take steps. Um the Saudis [00:24:32] may just wait until a situation emerges [00:24:37] in which they can pick up the phone and [00:24:39] make that call, you know. Um why ask for [00:24:41] something before it's happened? Um I, [00:24:46] you know, it's not to say that the [00:24:47] Saudis are out to save Lebanon. No, they [00:24:49] very clearly, if you read the Saudi [00:24:51] media, it is very clearly and Saudi [00:24:54] official statements, they want the [00:24:57] resistance in Lebanon to be um disarmed, [00:25:01] dismantled, you know, dead. Um but they [00:25:05] also don't want Israel to take Lebanon. [00:25:09] They don't want Turkey to take Lebanon. [00:25:11] These things are big considerations uh [00:25:13] for the Saudis. [00:25:15] You know, the Saudis, I always say, come [00:25:18] late to a game, you know, when they see [00:25:20] one of their Persian Gulf rivals making [00:25:24] um making big strides that, you know, [00:25:28] project their power more than Saudi [00:25:30] would like it to project. They sort of [00:25:33] get in on the game. It's the Arab Spring [00:25:35] game. The Saudis came late to that game. [00:25:37] The Qataris were working that. Um and [00:25:41] then by mid 2012 we saw the Saudis [00:25:44] arrive [00:25:46] fully in Damascus, you know, with [00:25:49] Muhammad, sorry, um Prince Bandar uh bin [00:25:53] Sultan who became, I think, intelligence [00:25:55] chief in chief in Saudi Arabia and [00:25:58] triggered his jihadi network and all of [00:26:00] a sudden the Syrian conflict was quite [00:26:02] different and the Saudis started backing [00:26:03] certain groups. um you know and you [00:26:06] actually had quite a I always say the [00:26:08] Arab Spring was kind of marked by Sydney [00:26:11] versus Sydney because all of these [00:26:13] countries were kind of opening up their [00:26:16] borders doing more trade with each other [00:26:19] having visaf-free policies and the Arab [00:26:21] Spring comes and it's Turkey versus [00:26:24] Saudi Arabia versus Egypt versus the UAE [00:26:28] versus Qatar you know all of them trying [00:26:31] to get the upper hand and become the big [00:26:34] player. [00:26:35] uh you know to take the mantle of Egypt [00:26:38] for instance which has long been you [00:26:40] know the leader of the Arab world where [00:26:42] is Egypt today the Arab Spring put a [00:26:45] kabash to that you know so there's um I [00:26:48] don't know that the Saudis got anything [00:26:50] of worth [00:26:52] discussed statements mean nothing from [00:26:55] both these parties the Saudis and the [00:26:56] Americans [00:26:58] um [00:27:00] I would like to think that the the the [00:27:04] unnoticed Saudi condition which was no [00:27:09] normalization with this cabinet is being [00:27:11] heard loud and clear in Trump's White [00:27:13] House because [00:27:15] um there's uh [00:27:18] nothing can change with this cabinet and [00:27:21] this Israeli prime minister but [00:27:23] everything can change with a new Israeli [00:27:25] prime minister and a new cabinet. Okay. [00:27:28] Um Netanyahu undermines all his allies. [00:27:31] he's always done so and doesn't care. [00:27:34] Um, other Israeli officials would not be [00:27:37] quite the same. U, let's see what [00:27:40] happens. You know, in Israeli elections, [00:27:41] Netanyahu still looks to be the most [00:27:43] popular candidate, but can he put [00:27:45] together a coalition government or will [00:27:47] his own allies scuttle it? You know, um, [00:27:51] really there's I mean, right now I'm [00:27:53] just speculating a bunch of things, you [00:27:55] know. Um, [00:27:57] we know that the Saudis are for [00:28:00] instance, oh back to that discussion. So [00:28:02] the Saudis, you know, when when Ahmed [00:28:04] al- Shara, you know, arrived in [00:28:06] Damascus, the Gataris and Turks had [00:28:10] essentially won Syria. And now, you [00:28:12] know, for many months now, you know, [00:28:15] much of this year, we've been hearing [00:28:16] that the Qataris have been sidelined [00:28:19] um in some part by the Saudis and the [00:28:22] UAE and others who don't, you know, have [00:28:25] a difference of have a worldview [00:28:27] difference potentially, you know, to [00:28:29] some part with with with Qatar. And [00:28:32] they've kind of elbowed their way in, [00:28:34] you know, like a lot of Western [00:28:36] countries have to get the better the [00:28:38] bigger deals, the better deals, right? [00:28:40] rebuilding Syria. Um, big contracts. Uh, [00:28:45] but I was I I met with a Western [00:28:49] diplomat in Beirut yesterday who [00:28:52] actually has the Lebanese and Syria file [00:28:54] in his hands and he was saying, you [00:28:56] know, he's asked me what I thought about [00:28:57] Syria's economy and where it was [00:28:59] heading. And he said, you know, right [00:29:01] now we essentially have a bunch ofUS, [00:29:06] you know, meaning the uh the will is [00:29:10] there, the decision to do something is [00:29:13] more or less on the table, but where's [00:29:15] the money? [00:29:17] Where, you know, are things really being [00:29:18] built in Syria? And there was this big [00:29:20] thing on social media for the first time [00:29:23] 24 hours all electricity in Damascus. [00:29:26] But he even said that's is that a PR [00:29:29] thing? How long is that sustainable [00:29:32] given what we know about their economic [00:29:34] state of affairs and their lack of [00:29:37] infrastructure to support, you know, [00:29:39] 24-hour electricity throughout Syria, [00:29:42] right? And who's [clears throat] going [00:29:43] to pay for it? Are Syrians going to be [00:29:45] paying? You know, they where's the [00:29:47] money? You know, so um there's a lot up [00:29:50] in the air. And so obviously you see [00:29:52] Ahmed Al in every single capital of the [00:29:55] world. He's become like the new [00:29:57] Zalinski. He's out there with his [00:29:59] begging cup and uh went so far to turn [00:30:03] to Moscow because like the Lebanese are [00:30:07] realizing the West and its allies never [00:30:10] deliver anything. I mean, just watch [00:30:12] Iraq. The amount of contracts that [00:30:15] Western companies got to rebuild Iraq, [00:30:18] to create infrastructure, to establish [00:30:21] efficiencies, nothing. I mean, GE had [00:30:24] contracts worth billions of dollars, [00:30:26] just sold one of its contract last year [00:30:28] to the to the Chinese. Nothing was [00:30:30] built. Nothing gets done with the West. [00:30:33] And I think we're starting to sense that [00:30:35] here. You know, I think Joseph Aun, the [00:30:38] Lebanese president thought with the kind [00:30:41] of momentum the Americans always give a [00:30:45] sense that they have going, but it's [00:30:48] just words. Manar, you know, I call it [00:30:50] their kinetic energy. The the the the [00:30:53] Israelis and the Americans stay kinetic. [00:30:56] There's not a day that goes by in the [00:30:59] news cycle without us hearing a US or an [00:31:01] Israeli statement on something very [00:31:04] pressing in the region, right, to to [00:31:06] scene set to to to steal the narrative, [00:31:09] to set the narrative. Um, and it gives [00:31:12] us a sense that they're doing so much [00:31:15] here, right? But in fact, a lot of it is [00:31:17] hot air. And so [clears throat] Ahmed Al [00:31:21] definitely got wind of that when he [00:31:23] turned to the Russians. The Israelis are [00:31:26] turning to the Chinese to help build out [00:31:29] their electricity grid. Okay? you know, [00:31:33] um the Lebanese won't dare do anything [00:31:37] that the Americans say no to, but that's [00:31:40] going to change too because nothing is [00:31:43] moving here except um Israeli violations [00:31:47] getting worse and worse and worse. And [00:31:48] of course at some part at some point the [00:31:50] the resistance will respond but the [00:31:53] resistance will tell us that it's [00:31:56] getting to a point where they're going [00:31:57] to respond to let people prepare you [00:32:00] know um so yeah I mean it's just you [00:32:05] know what we talk on the Cradles podcast [00:32:07] we do it twice a week now um and we talk [00:32:10] about all the time a lot of balls in the [00:32:13] air you know and the best we can do is [00:32:16] point out what these balls are you know [00:32:17] what's in play. There's no telling how [00:32:20] things can move because as you know [00:32:22] covering this region man better than [00:32:24] most journalists in the world. Um one [00:32:28] event can change trajectories [00:32:31] in this region too. [00:32:33] >> Absolutely. And one of those events is [00:32:36] the revelations uh of Jeffrey Epstein [00:32:39] and his role in driving US policy in the [00:32:41] Middle East. And I know that that might [00:32:43] seem like a big pivot to go from what we [00:32:45] talked about to Jeffrey Epstein, but [00:32:47] actually um one of the people parading [00:32:50] in the Middle East talking about, you [00:32:52] know, being acting civilized and stop [00:32:55] being anim animalistic is um the US [00:32:58] ambassador to Turkey. IA Tom Barack. Tom [00:33:01] Barack recently made headlines when he [00:33:03] told of a group of Lebanese people to or [00:33:06] to Lebanese journalists to stop acting [00:33:09] civilized and to stop being so anim [00:33:12] animalistic. And so there are recent [00:33:15] revelations of him thanking Jeffrey [00:33:17] Epstein for a young child and sending [00:33:19] photos. So, what have you made of the [00:33:21] latest revelations about Jeffrey [00:33:23] Epstein's ties to Tom Barack to Israel [00:33:27] and Israeli intelligence and shaping um [00:33:30] what we're seeing today in Lebanon and [00:33:33] in the Middle East? [00:33:35] Um, [00:33:38] I'll get back to the Tom Barack [00:33:39] accusation, but you know, [00:33:43] I always say there's two levels that [00:33:45] look at the to look at at the Epstein [00:33:48] situation, the issues and and one is [00:33:51] covered by Western media to some extent [00:33:54] and the other one is largely and almost [00:33:56] entirely ignored by mainstream western [00:33:58] media. The two Epstein issues are one, [00:34:01] the trafficking of minors. Okay. Um, [00:34:06] right. That is where how people know of [00:34:10] Epstein, right? Trafficking young girls [00:34:12] to important um, men. The other element [00:34:17] of this is [00:34:20] why was Epstein doing this? Okay. Um and [00:34:24] of course we know and because in in our [00:34:28] media and independent media we've [00:34:30] discussed this is likely a blackmail [00:34:32] operation you know and for a very long [00:34:35] time we've talked about linking um you [00:34:38] know we've linked Epstein to the MSAD [00:34:40] and obviously through his partner [00:34:43] Gileain Maxwell whose father was Robert [00:34:46] Maxwell you know who had lots of links [00:34:48] with the MSAD um that's been our [00:34:51] discourse not that we're uncon concerned [00:34:54] about the trafficking of minors. No, but [00:34:57] that's how it affects us in this region, [00:34:59] right? [00:35:00] >> And um I think just today uh Republican [00:35:04] Congressman Thomas Massie [00:35:07] um said Jeffrey Epstein had closed ties [00:35:10] to our own intelligence agency and [00:35:13] Israel's intelligence agencies. That's [00:35:16] why they're trying to stop this. So you [00:35:19] have a sitting US congressman now making [00:35:22] those things clear instead of of course [00:35:25] the world has you know Americans have [00:35:27] heard this about the second element the [00:35:29] MSADA element because of social media [00:35:32] otherwise you'd never have heard about [00:35:34] this element are in the United States [00:35:36] you know um so social media has sort of [00:35:39] um bypassed and gone well beyond [00:35:42] mainstream media and covering this [00:35:44] aspect of the story and by having people [00:35:47] like that point to it and having this [00:35:50] big surge in anti-Israel sentiment among [00:35:54] the Republican and conservative right in [00:35:57] America um with major media and [00:36:00] political personalities coming out [00:36:02] absolutely against Israel not even [00:36:05] neutral but like against Israel is a [00:36:08] huge change now [00:36:10] um I like that the emails mention people [00:36:13] like Barack because he's an envoy for [00:36:17] this region He's not just a guy, right? [00:36:19] I I I like that. Um, but to be honest, [00:36:25] let's be journalists here for a second. [00:36:27] When you saw that email, which basically [00:36:29] in which Epstein basically says, and I'm [00:36:31] not reading this verbatim, [00:36:34] um, [00:36:36] uh, you're with the pig, you're with the [00:36:39] kid, send me a picture, make me smile. [00:36:43] Right. [00:36:44] >> Yeah. I immediately went to look up how [00:36:48] many kids Thomas Barack has. He has six [00:36:51] kids. [00:36:52] That could have been nothing. All right. [00:36:55] Like a big nothing burger. I actually [00:36:57] hate that we do this because we [00:36:59] undermine our own arguments. I don't I [00:37:01] mean, you're right to bring it up. We [00:37:03] should be discussing it. And I don't [00:37:05] know that he was talking about his own, [00:37:07] you know, Barack's actual six kids or if [00:37:10] he was talking about a minor female who [00:37:12] was sitting next to him at the time, but [00:37:15] I think we shouldn't jump to conclusions [00:37:17] on this. Um I do agree with uh Massie [00:37:22] that the reason this is being covered up [00:37:24] is because [00:37:26] you know Epstein was essentially he had [00:37:29] a prediliction for young girls and [00:37:31] that's why he was selected you know um [00:37:34] he was viewed by some as a sophisticate [00:37:37] who could move in those circles and you [00:37:39] know we never know where his money came [00:37:40] from but he was set up with uh you know [00:37:44] um multi-million dollar properties and [00:37:46] private jets and um all the goodies, [00:37:50] right? In which he could Okay, so if you [00:37:54] were invited to a party with, you know, [00:37:57] A-listers, political A-listers, [00:37:59] celebrity A-listers, media A-listers, [00:38:01] you'd probably go, right? I would um to [00:38:05] see who these people were and how they [00:38:06] migled. No, no, no. I mean, why would [00:38:08] you not? I'm nosy. That's why I'm a [00:38:09] journalist. Okay, I'm just going to say [00:38:11] [laughter] that. I don't have a lot of [00:38:13] red lines. Very few, by the way. And um [00:38:17] but what he probably sought to do was to [00:38:20] figure out who he could corrupt so they [00:38:24] could have blackmail files on that [00:38:25] person, right? And if you follow like [00:38:28] the um Bill Melinda Gates divorce story, [00:38:32] she talked about Epstein giving her the [00:38:34] creeps from, you know, from the get-go [00:38:39] and her telling Bill she doesn't want [00:38:41] him to hang around with with with [00:38:43] Jeffrey Epstein. And so, um, there are [00:38:46] people who got sucked into Epstein's [00:38:48] world. Um, there are people who never [00:38:51] knew this stuff was going on. They just [00:38:53] weren't participants in this kind of [00:38:55] things. They were props, you know, it's [00:38:56] good to have this big name at my party [00:38:58] anyways, right? Um but and there were [00:39:01] people who were not even blackmailed, [00:39:04] but the photos were there. Probably the [00:39:07] understanding was there that um you [00:39:10] know, we have a lot on you. And so you [00:39:12] have people, you know, I mean, this is [00:39:14] what intelligence agencies do. You know, [00:39:18] a few businessmen might do it, but we [00:39:20] don't actually know. Epstein was a [00:39:23] businessman. Nobody knows what he did, [00:39:24] you know. Um, but this is the work of [00:39:27] intelligence agencies. And as you know, [00:39:30] people have noted these last years, [00:39:33] nobody becomes big, [00:39:36] so big, okay, that they don't then get [00:39:40] infiltrated, okay? You're not allowed to [00:39:43] just start a Twitter. If you get big [00:39:46] enough, they're not going to allow you [00:39:48] to if you don't play ball with them. And [00:39:50] this is just what happens, right? So, um [00:39:53] it's it's a game and and and I would [00:39:56] definitely um warn people against taking [00:39:59] every nail name that appears in these [00:40:01] emails and you know um jumping to [00:40:04] conclusions by association. Um but of [00:40:08] course what this all leads to is more [00:40:10] and more public um desire to scrutinize [00:40:15] these documents themselves. So, it's not [00:40:17] a bad thing, you know, even if there's [00:40:19] sort of like puff pieces and stuff that [00:40:21] comes out of this um you know, uh and a [00:40:24] lot of over speculation, the fact is I [00:40:27] think it's created momentum to get these [00:40:30] files released and once the files and [00:40:32] the investigator investigations are [00:40:34] released, then we know much much more. [00:40:37] Um but I I I don't subscribe necessarily [00:40:41] to the idea that um Trump has reversed [00:40:44] his position on disclosing the files um [00:40:47] because he is um implicated in you know [00:40:52] having sexual relations with minors. I [00:40:54] subscribe to the position that too many [00:40:59] super important people are in those [00:41:02] files who have all weighed in and [00:41:06] pressured Trump not to let them be [00:41:09] released. [00:41:12] >> Sorry to disappoint. [00:41:13] >> No, that's okay. I mean, I think you [00:41:15] make a very valid point. You know, I [00:41:17] think a lot of people forget that [00:41:18] sometimes that there are people who show [00:41:20] up and communicate with certain people [00:41:23] and um it might just be of an [00:41:25] association. It doesn't necessarily uh [00:41:27] implicate them in some sort of [00:41:29] wrongdoing. And so that's a very valid [00:41:32] point. And so one of the things I wanted [00:41:34] to wrap up the conversation uh to talk [00:41:36] about was Yemen. you know, you've you've [00:41:39] done this incredible job at kind of [00:41:40] painting the whole picture in the region [00:41:42] from Syria to Qatar, Saudi Arabia, [00:41:45] Lebanon, Palestine, and you know, how US [00:41:49] involvement has played a role or shaped [00:41:52] the policies, Russia, China, etc., etc. [00:41:56] But one uh nation that has really [00:41:59] triumphed over this uh region is the [00:42:04] resistance in Yemen. I mean this is a [00:42:07] small poor nation. Of course it's poor [00:42:10] by design because it's been plundered [00:42:12] and occupied by the powers that be. But [00:42:15] you know Yemen has been able to put up [00:42:17] stiff resistance to the USIsraeli [00:42:20] project. Um and you know since the [00:42:23] ceasefire they've they've they've [00:42:25] threatened Israel that they will [00:42:26] continue [00:42:28] uh to bomb Israel or you know to to to [00:42:31] fly their missiles there. How have they [00:42:33] been able to do it? And do you think [00:42:36] that their resistance is going to [00:42:37] continue in 2026? Like what is the buzz [00:42:40] that you're hearing? And how do you [00:42:42] think the US and Israel will respond [00:42:44] considering Yemen did enforce one of the [00:42:47] most successful blockades against Israel [00:42:51] and the US and its Red Sea blockade? [00:42:55] Um, one of the reason Yemen has been so [00:42:58] successful or the Yemeni resistance is [00:43:00] because they they don't, you know, by [00:43:03] and large they don't speak English. They [00:43:05] don't read the Western press. Um, [00:43:08] they're untouched by the propaganda [00:43:11] narratives that has made, in my view, [00:43:14] many of the other members of the [00:43:15] resistance axis too well behaved. Okay? [00:43:19] Do you know what I'm saying? [00:43:22] >> Too well-mannered. Okay? [00:43:25] The Yemeni resistance put a bullet in [00:43:27] the head of um Ali Abd Ali Abdasal, [00:43:33] right? [00:43:35] They didn't think, oh, we're not allowed [00:43:37] to do that. It's going to make us look [00:43:38] savage. Oh, we have to show a different [00:43:41] face of ourselves to blah blah blah blah [00:43:43] fill in the blank. Right? They don't [00:43:45] they they don't have colonized minds. [00:43:48] Even the hardcore resistance elsewhere [00:43:52] in the region have a certain [00:43:54] colonization of their minds. That has [00:43:56] happened. Okay. Um because they read the [00:43:59] western press. I'm sorry. It just [00:44:01] happens. You know, if you speak English, [00:44:02] you're going to use certain language [00:44:03] about, you know, discussing this region [00:44:05] than if you're speaking about it in [00:44:07] Arabic. You know, um the other thing is [00:44:11] Yemen has not been infiltrated. [00:44:14] uh the Israelis, the Americans have [00:44:16] spent years infiltrated or in [00:44:19] infiltrating or trying to infiltrate the [00:44:21] traditional resistance access countries [00:44:23] in this region, right? I mean the um [00:44:26] internal security forces in Lebanon [00:44:28] fully infiltrated by um British [00:44:33] introduced software. I mean, anyone, any [00:44:36] of these, you know, five eyes countries [00:44:38] plus Israel can view the data of every [00:44:41] single um uh Lebanese person with a [00:44:45] mobile phone. It's ridiculous. It's [00:44:47] ridiculous. Okay, they've infiltrated [00:44:49] tracking, you know, tracking devices in [00:44:51] this country that uh through mobile [00:44:54] towers that, you know, they've made sure [00:44:56] haven't gone the contracts haven't gone [00:44:58] to Chinese manufacturers, but ones that [00:45:00] they can infiltrate, you know, from [00:45:01] Western countries. This has been written [00:45:04] extensively about in in uh in at the [00:45:07] cradle and elsewhere. Um and I remember [00:45:10] back in maybe before 2010 around that [00:45:14] the international telecommunications [00:45:16] association, the biggest one in the [00:45:18] world, basically um had a resolution [00:45:21] condemning Israel's attempts to [00:45:23] infiltrate Lebanon clearly through blah [00:45:26] blah blah. like you're not allowed to do [00:45:28] that, you know, if you follow if you're [00:45:30] part of the global telecommunications [00:45:32] community, right? So, this has gone on [00:45:34] forever. They've worked for years to do [00:45:36] that in Syria. They've worked for years [00:45:38] to do that in the um Palestinian uh [00:45:42] territories. They've worked to do that [00:45:44] in Iran. We saw in this war the exposure [00:45:48] of um Israeli drone um drone production [00:45:52] facilities inside Iran that had been [00:45:55] operational. I think for eight months [00:45:57] prior according to the Israelis, but the [00:46:00] Yemenes have not been infiltrated. Now, [00:46:01] the Cradle did a piece not long ago, I [00:46:03] think maybe in the last month or so that [00:46:05] showed um how much the Israelis and [00:46:08] Americans were working to infiltrate [00:46:12] Yemen communications, okay, and to [00:46:15] basically get themselves Yemeni spies, [00:46:18] people to report on the actions of [00:46:20] Ansarah, etc., and its officials. And um [00:46:24] they have struck and killed a number of [00:46:26] these officials, right? But they've not [00:46:29] been this is all new, relatively new to [00:46:31] them, right? Don't forget the Yemeni [00:46:34] resistance kind of controls its own [00:46:36] areas, right? Of and the Americans and [00:46:39] Israelis don't need to do the same in [00:46:42] areas that are influenced by the Saudis [00:46:44] and the Emiratis, you know, in southern [00:46:46] Yemen. So, um essentially they're just [00:46:50] new at this game. They are going to do [00:46:52] everything they can to infiltrate [00:46:54] further and we'll see. And that is why [00:46:56] Yemen has acted the way it has. It [00:46:59] doesn't it's not colonized. It doesn't [00:47:03] even think in terms of well we can't [00:47:06] shoot down a US plane or bomb an [00:47:09] American ship. It doesn't think in those [00:47:12] terms. It doesn't think that it can't [00:47:14] send um two missiles right into an [00:47:17] Israeli um Dustin ship. It doesn't think [00:47:20] that way. All the other actors think, [00:47:23] "Oh, we can't really do that. Why? Why?" [00:47:26] The resistance in this region didn't [00:47:28] start like that. It started with, you [00:47:31] know, the bombing of the marine barracks [00:47:34] in Lebanon. They didn't have any, you [00:47:36] know, and then they learned English. [00:47:38] What can I say? that and the fact that [00:47:40] there hasn't been um the kind of [00:47:43] eavesdropping and um technological [00:47:48] um uh infiltration of uh unserela [00:47:52] controlled Yemen. So I think that's what [00:47:54] accounts for why they're doing so well. [00:47:57] >> And you know M press news has actually [00:47:58] uncovered in the last I think it was our [00:48:01] investigation that we revealed about two [00:48:03] and a half years ago. We actually [00:48:04] uncovered um one of the largest spying [00:48:08] attempted networks inside of Yemen [00:48:11] >> um through Israel's Mossad and it was [00:48:14] through aid organizations and NOS's you [00:48:17] know surprise surprise and of and of [00:48:20] course Yemen arrested they caught them [00:48:22] and they arrested everyone and we [00:48:24] actually interviewed a lot of these [00:48:25] people that were held in these Yemeni uh [00:48:27] prisons and um they were a lot of them [00:48:31] were Yebanese and like you said They [00:48:33] were uh American taught, English taught [00:48:36] and they had come back to spy on uh ons [00:48:39] law. But what's really interesting about [00:48:41] Yemen is that the genocide in Gaza [00:48:43] united Yemenes across sectarian lines. A [00:48:46] lot of the very uh militants and people [00:48:49] that maybe would have aligned with Saudi [00:48:51] Arabia or the UAE in the south put down [00:48:53] their arms inside of Yemen to stand with [00:48:57] Allah. I mean that's a huge [00:48:59] >> they Yeah. They defected. [00:49:01] >> The thing about [00:49:02] >> Yeah. Yemenes from top to bottom, you [00:49:06] know, east to west are anti-Israel [00:49:09] and pro-Gaza. The the the um [00:49:14] the propaganda just hasn't infiltrated [00:49:18] there. You know, too many people didn't [00:49:20] pay attention to Yemen. Yemen was always [00:49:22] like poorest country in the region and [00:49:25] then a hot war and you just arm. It's an [00:49:27] opportunity to arm your sides and then [00:49:30] you know again back poorest country in [00:49:32] the region blah blah and then another [00:49:33] war. You know this is kind of how it's [00:49:34] gone. Did they need to did they ever [00:49:37] think the poorest country in the region [00:49:39] could create its own domesticmade [00:49:43] missiles that were technologically [00:49:46] advanced and would dare to strike right [00:49:51] NATO or NATO aligned forces. They just [00:49:55] didn't plan for it. You know that comes [00:49:57] from arrogance. It also comes from a [00:50:00] complete lack of understanding of this [00:50:02] region. You know I always say like bomb [00:50:04] everything. Okay? Bomb everything in [00:50:07] sight and a resistance will grow that [00:50:11] will destroy you. It's just the more you [00:50:14] come at us the more people you get with [00:50:17] the resistance. You know this this is a [00:50:20] fact. We we don't have anywhere else to [00:50:22] go. We are in this region attached to [00:50:26] our land. Okay. We love the smell of our [00:50:30] fruit trees. Nothing smells like the [00:50:33] fruit on our fruit trees. There is a [00:50:36] sensory attachment to this land that [00:50:38] comes from living on it for generations [00:50:41] and generations [00:50:43] and even dare I say millennia. Okay. the [00:50:47] Israeli settlers, you couldn't pay them [00:50:50] to go back to their northern homes [00:50:53] because they have no attachment, no [00:50:57] visceral attachment to that land. [00:51:01] >> Absolutely. And I wanted to ask you, you [00:51:03] kind of began to get into that, but what [00:51:05] are the sort of weapons and tactics that [00:51:07] uh have made [snorts] [00:51:10] uh the resistance group that they are [00:51:12] that has stood up against the US, [00:51:14] Israeli and Saudi and UAE uh military [00:51:18] might, what have they been using to [00:51:20] resist that? [00:51:22] >> I am the wrong person to say like [00:51:24] everyone in Lebanon can go, "Oh, that's [00:51:26] a drone and I just heard an airplane, a [00:51:31] bird. I I don't hear I don't know. [00:51:33] They're like uh that's a you know [00:51:36] whatever even bullet sounds that's like [00:51:38] that's an AK-47. I zero zero ability or [00:51:43] really interest in the kinds of weapons. [00:51:46] But what I do know from um meaning I'm [00:51:49] not going to give you names Manar just [00:51:50] don't expect [laughter] that from me. [00:51:52] But um I I do remember first covering [00:51:56] Yemen sort of around the time the State [00:51:58] Department um leaks, you know, the the [00:52:01] Wikileaks [00:52:02] State Department files uh leaked um [00:52:06] because I just as a journalist, you [00:52:08] know, you get so excited. I was just I [00:52:10] spent absolutely weeks and weeks and [00:52:12] weeks going through as many files as I [00:52:14] could because they were all there in a [00:52:16] database and searchable by keyword, [00:52:18] which is even better. And one thing I [00:52:20] learned which surprised me is because [00:52:22] the the rhetoric the narrative in public [00:52:24] by the Americans has always been that [00:52:27] Iran is supplying Yemen, right, with [00:52:30] weapons, right? Iran is supplying the [00:52:32] resistance [00:52:33] um with weapons, that um Iran basically [00:52:37] dictates to Yemen what to do. And in [00:52:40] some of these State Department written [00:52:43] files are lovely little nuggets like no [00:52:48] they don't really get their weapons from [00:52:50] Iran. They a have learned to make them. [00:52:55] Okay. B get them from the Yemen army. [00:52:59] Biggest source Yemen army. Okay. Is how [00:53:03] Ansar gets its weapons. But also you [00:53:06] know there have been six Saudi wars [00:53:08] against Yemen. There's a lot of like [00:53:11] inventory in the field. They can [00:53:14] repurpose, [00:53:15] re-engineer, or just take, right? I [00:53:19] mean, you look at like the ordinances, [00:53:21] the unexloded ordinances that Israel's [00:53:24] dropped on Gaza, that's all in Hamas's [00:53:26] stash now. You know what I mean? So, um, [00:53:30] one was that that the Yemenes have been [00:53:32] making their own stuff for a really long [00:53:34] time. Accelerated, of course. Iran [00:53:37] doesn't need to give it weapons. Don't [00:53:40] forget that there is a massive land and [00:53:43] water blockade of Yemen. We're not going [00:53:47] to have scuba divers moving missiles [00:53:51] underwater across the Persian Gulf. Do [00:53:54] you know what I mean? It's it's stupid [00:53:56] for anyone to think that. And like I [00:53:58] said, even back in 2010, the Americans [00:54:01] in private were saying Iran doesn't [00:54:03] supply. [00:54:05] they make it their own or they get it [00:54:07] from the Yemeni army. Um the other part [00:54:09] of this uh was oh that they follow [00:54:13] Iran's instructions right that that Iran [00:54:16] dictates to Yemen. In the State [00:54:18] Department files, it said that in fact [00:54:23] um [00:54:24] uh no most Yemenes don't follow follow [00:54:28] Ali K as their mara okay as their their [00:54:32] own personally selected Shia spiritual [00:54:34] leader. They also said that about [00:54:37] Bahrain because right Iran is funding [00:54:40] and arming and whatever the opposition [00:54:42] in Bahrain because Shia majority country [00:54:46] and it was like uh they're taking [00:54:48] instruction from Iran but the state [00:54:50] department cables said no in fact [00:54:54] >> Issa something or other most Bahraini [00:54:57] Shia follow him and not at all Ali K and [00:55:01] they follow other Shia Mara in the [00:55:04] region. [00:55:05] But by no stretch of the imagination is [00:55:08] it the Iranian supreme leader who is you [00:55:11] know the majority followed. So um a lot [00:55:14] of this is just plain rhetoric. The [00:55:15] Yemenes have you know Ansarah has risen [00:55:19] again like I said resistance will come [00:55:21] if you if you hurt people who live on [00:55:24] the land right they're sort of like from [00:55:26] the mountainous northern areas right and [00:55:29] and uh you you keep attacking them [00:55:32] instead of giving them a seat at the [00:55:33] table. They just wanted representation. [00:55:36] Ansarah represented the Arab Spring in [00:55:40] Yemen when we were all cheering on the [00:55:42] Arab Spring in other states from Tunisia [00:55:44] to Egypt etc. Um Ansarah was driving the [00:55:49] Arab Spring in Yemen and all they were [00:55:51] saying is get rid of our Saudi back [00:55:54] leader and just give us a seat at the [00:55:57] table you know and that was not allowed. [00:56:01] So um of course uh Ansara just went from [00:56:04] you know whatever you want to call them [00:56:06] like mountain people to now controlling [00:56:10] the capital city actually bringing you [00:56:12] know until the recent round of uh new [00:56:16] economic besiegment that the nasty [00:56:19] Americans have um uh imposed on Yemen [00:56:22] until then like it's it's the northern [00:56:24] parts it's the ansora controlled areas [00:56:26] that had better economy less fluctuation [00:56:29] in the currency Okay. More access to [00:56:32] services. It was the southern sort of [00:56:35] Saudi Airatibacked areas that had, you [00:56:38] know, really really um exaggerated [00:56:41] economic problems and crisis. Um so [00:56:45] yeah, that's that's in a nutshell. I [00:56:48] mean, of course, Yemen after all these [00:56:50] wars is going to have [00:56:54] hired an engineering team finally to [00:56:56] build their things. you know, educate [00:56:58] that team, practice, find practice [00:57:01] locations. Maybe they went to Iran, [00:57:03] maybe they went to Syria, maybe they [00:57:05] went to southern Lebanon or the big or [00:57:08] whatever to actually learn and train, [00:57:10] right? But I'm just saying a lot of [00:57:12] Yemen's capabilities are in house. [00:57:14] >> Absolutely. And you know, actually M [00:57:16] Press had exclusive [00:57:18] um this exclusive opportunity to go and [00:57:21] tour one of the weapons factories inside [00:57:23] of Yemen. And they were just so proud [00:57:26] that everything that they had with these [00:57:29] weapons was built by them with their own [00:57:32] hands. And a lot of it too, um, you [00:57:35] didn't mention this, but apart from what [00:57:36] you mentioned, some of this weaponry was [00:57:39] also left over by the Soviet Union, um, [00:57:42] from previous years. I mean, maybe just [00:57:44] the parts, some parts and pieces that [00:57:46] they were able to recover. Um, and [00:57:48] speaking of stupid, and I just want to [00:57:49] end it here with these State Department [00:57:51] cables that you um that you cited [00:57:54] because we reported on this at Mint [00:57:55] Press News as well. And I think it was [00:57:57] like one or two years prior Nikki Haley [00:58:00] was like giving this big presentation. I [00:58:03] think it was at the UN. Don't quote me [00:58:05] on that. I don't remember exactly, but [00:58:06] she was giving this big presentation and [00:58:08] she's like showing all these weapons [00:58:10] that the that the Yemenes had. I don't [00:58:12] know if you remember that. And she was [00:58:14] made in Iran. [00:58:14] >> Made in Iran. Jacob saying these are [00:58:16] made in Iran. And I love that you said [00:58:18] >> written in English. Written in English, [00:58:20] no less. You know what are do they [00:58:22] think? Well, of course we're stupid. I [00:58:24] mean, most people have been stupid. But [00:58:26] as you said earlier, it's Gaza that has [00:58:29] brought down all the veils. I mean, not [00:58:31] just on the um you know um the lies of [00:58:35] the rules-based order, but those who [00:58:37] claim to be, you know, uh representative [00:58:40] of human rights and freedom of speech [00:58:42] and all these things, right? But um I [00:58:44] just you know back to the Yemen point [00:58:46] really quickly. It's you know I think [00:58:48] what people think you know you've cut [00:58:50] off the the land route potentially [00:58:54] between Iran and Lebanon right for the [00:58:57] for the um transportation of weapons. [00:59:00] >> But we all know that Hezbollah was [00:59:03] producing weapons inside of Lebanon [00:59:07] very openly. We know that. And what is [00:59:11] different between Yemen and Lebanon? You [00:59:14] know, Lebanon has a population of four [00:59:16] or five million, right? Who live here. [00:59:18] What is the difference? Why can't the [00:59:20] Yemenes produce it if his biz if the [00:59:23] Syrians are producing it if the [00:59:25] Iranians, [00:59:26] you know, who who only purchased turnkey [00:59:29] projects from the West during the Sha's [00:59:32] reign, right? So, they didn't actually [00:59:34] know the nuts and bolts of anything. [00:59:35] They just purchased it with here's your [00:59:38] key to your factory right now know every [00:59:41] little bit they make the parts right so [00:59:44] this is what the resistance axis you [00:59:47] know people think it's just [00:59:48] anti-Americanism anti-Israel no the axis [00:59:51] stands for so much more it stands for [00:59:54] actually what you know international law [00:59:56] stands on which is two things [00:59:58] sovereignity and territorial integrity [01:00:00] meaning we will decide our own destiny [01:00:03] we will decide our own form of [01:00:05] governance [01:00:05] We will decide the structure of our [01:00:07] economy, the the the the partners we [01:00:10] will trade with, the the nations we [01:00:13] choose to ally with and have special [01:00:16] relationships with. You don't dictate to [01:00:18] us right now. The Americans are [01:00:20] dictating everything in Lebanon. [01:00:21] Everything, you know, you can't have [01:00:23] Iranian flights here. You can't have [01:00:25] Iranian cornflakes. You know, you just [01:00:27] it's just it's too much. So um of course [01:00:32] this axis has always been um primarily [01:00:36] for self-sufficiency. It is why Iran [01:00:39] will not did not agree to a mutual [01:00:41] defense pact with Russia. They don't [01:00:43] also want any country even a close ally [01:00:46] who can help it maybe in a future war [01:00:47] with Israel or the United States to have [01:00:49] a base in Iran. And the Yemenes won't [01:00:51] allow it either. Do you see any Iranian [01:00:54] bases or Hezbollah bases in like uh SA? [01:00:57] You know you don't. This is not how the [01:01:00] axis works. Self-sufficiency is key. And [01:01:03] by the way, it was a driving principle, [01:01:06] a tenant of um late [01:01:11] force commander Kasim Salmani [01:01:14] is that we do not want to create [01:01:17] dependencies with our allies. [01:01:20] Okay? Iran could have made a lot of [01:01:22] money forever creating dependencies like [01:01:25] the West has, right? um Iran wanted [01:01:27] their allies to be totally [01:01:29] self-sufficient. So that's why we know [01:01:32] the Yemenes are creating their own stuff [01:01:34] and that Hezbollah will continue to do [01:01:36] that and don't need the Syrian roots. [01:01:40] >> Okay, Shireine, we have we have so much [01:01:42] more to talk about, but unfortunately we [01:01:43] don't we don't have enough time. We [01:01:45] didn't even get to talk about Sudan um [01:01:48] of course and how that plays into the [01:01:50] axis of resistance or it did at one [01:01:52] point in its history. [music] um and how [01:01:54] it's being, you know, dismembered [01:01:56] basically piece by piece. But, you know, [01:01:59] we'll we'll have you on again soon. It's [01:02:01] always a pleasure to speak with you and [01:02:03] learn from you, Charmaine. [music] Um [01:02:04] and hopefully we'll have you on again. [01:02:06] Thank you so much. [01:02:08] >> Thank you, Anar. Look forward to it.