📄 Extracted Text (37,443 words)
[00:00:02] [music]
[00:00:05] Elizabeth Phillips, welcome to the show.
[00:00:08] >> Thanks for having me.
[00:00:09] >> You're welcome. Been looking forward to
[00:00:11] this.
[00:00:12] >> Same.
[00:00:12] >> But um yeah, so interest. I think it was
[00:00:16] a couple months ago. I think maybe
[00:00:18] late October, sometime in November, Tim
[00:00:21] Tibo called me and told me about your
[00:00:25] situation, what you're doing, um the
[00:00:28] laws that you're getting passed, and and
[00:00:31] he told me about what happened with your
[00:00:33] brother, uh who was sexually abused at
[00:00:37] Camp Canakook in Missouri. And um Tim
[00:00:41] asked me if he if I would be interested
[00:00:44] in doing an interview with you and and
[00:00:46] so when he told me about the situation
[00:00:49] um
[00:00:51] immediately I was like, "Yep, I'm in.
[00:00:53] Let's do it." Uh this is a topic that
[00:00:56] we've covered several times on this show
[00:00:57] and I think a lot of people are scared
[00:01:00] to talk about this subject. I don't know
[00:01:01] why. I don't know what's more important
[00:01:03] than saving our kids, but we're here for
[00:01:06] it. And um and um so thank you for being
[00:01:11] here. This is going to be a very heavy
[00:01:13] interview. And um and man, you know,
[00:01:16] I've just heard amazing things about
[00:01:18] Camp Canakook. In fact, one of uh one of
[00:01:20] the one of one of one of our team
[00:01:22] members here today has been there. I
[00:01:25] think she said she's been going there
[00:01:26] since she was 3 years old. And um
[00:01:30] yeah, but
[00:01:33] >> thanks for being willing to have the
[00:01:35] conversation and to enter the darkness a
[00:01:36] little bit so we can expose it.
[00:01:38] >> Yeah.
[00:01:39] >> And God blessed Tim for the intro. God
[00:01:41] bless you for wanting to have the
[00:01:42] conversation. I'm grateful to anyone who
[00:01:45] will let me talk about this and who's
[00:01:47] who cares.
[00:01:49] >> You want to start with a prayer?
[00:01:51] >> Yeah,
[00:01:51] >> let's do it.
[00:01:52] >> All right. I work with a lot of
[00:01:54] survivors who uh are pursuing sobriety.
[00:01:56] So, I'm going to read the serenity
[00:01:57] prayer. That's cool.
[00:01:58] >> Perfect. It's my wife's favorite prayer.
[00:02:00] >> Awesome.
[00:02:01] >> It's 15 years sober.
[00:02:02] >> That's amazing.
[00:02:03] >> Yeah.
[00:02:05] >> Okay. God, grant me the serenity to
[00:02:08] accept the things I cannot change, the
[00:02:10] courage to change the things I can, and
[00:02:12] the wisdom to know the difference.
[00:02:14] Living one day at a time, enjoying one
[00:02:16] moment at a time, accepting hardships as
[00:02:19] the pathway to peace, that I may be
[00:02:21] reasonably happy in this life and
[00:02:22] supremely happy forever in the next.
[00:02:24] Amen.
[00:02:25] >> Amen. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:02:29] All right, I'm going to give you an
[00:02:30] introduction. Everybody starts with an
[00:02:32] introduction. Elizabeth Phillips,
[00:02:34] leading voice on reforming how the legal
[00:02:36] system treats survivors of child sexual
[00:02:39] abuse. Younger brother Trey died by
[00:02:42] suicide in 2019 at age 28 after a civil
[00:02:45] settlement with Camp Canakook that
[00:02:47] included a restrictive NDA. founder of
[00:02:51] No More Victims, an advoc an advocacy
[00:02:54] organization that passes child
[00:02:56] protection laws. In 2025, you passed
[00:02:59] Trey's law in Texas and in Missouri. Led
[00:03:02] the campaign for camp safety
[00:03:05] with [clears throat] a coalition of
[00:03:06] parents who lost their daughters on July
[00:03:08] 4th, 2025 at Camp Mystic to pass the
[00:03:11] Heavens 27 camp safety in youth camper
[00:03:14] acts. You served as the executive
[00:03:16] director of the Phillips Foundation
[00:03:18] since 2013, [snorts] wife to Kevin,
[00:03:22] mother of three, and most importantly,
[00:03:24] you're a Christian. And this is the
[00:03:26] first time you've spoken publicly about
[00:03:28] this collective work and what's ahead.
[00:03:31] So once again, thank you.
[00:03:34] All right, couple things to knock out
[00:03:36] here real quick. I have a Patreon
[00:03:38] account. It's a subscription account.
[00:03:40] we've turned it into one hell of a
[00:03:41] community and uh they're the reason that
[00:03:43] I get to sit here with you today. So,
[00:03:45] one of the things I do is I offer them
[00:03:47] the opportunity to ask every guest a
[00:03:49] question. This is from Murphy.
[00:03:52] You've turned unimaginable personal loss
[00:03:55] into meaningful systemic change. What
[00:03:58] was the turning point when advocacy
[00:04:00] shifted from something you were doing in
[00:04:02] your brother's memory to something that
[00:04:04] defined your life's work? Um,
[00:04:08] it's a great question, Murphy. It kind
[00:04:10] of gives me chills because I think I'm
[00:04:13] in that moment right now, like realizing
[00:04:15] this is my life's work. Um, I just can't
[00:04:19] unsee what I've seen.
[00:04:22] And this part of my mission started with
[00:04:27] my brother's death. And uh I knew I had
[00:04:31] to turn that pain into something
[00:04:33] powerful, something purposeful.
[00:04:36] Uh and then I started getting into it
[00:04:38] and realized there are all these
[00:04:40] survivors suffering in the shadows. So
[00:04:42] it's so much bigger than Trey, so much
[00:04:44] bigger than me now. Uh I will fight for
[00:04:48] these now friends. And uh we've had a
[00:04:51] lot of allies and advocates join the
[00:04:53] forces too to make sure that we are
[00:04:56] protecting kids uh at a systems level
[00:04:59] and that requires policy change and I
[00:05:02] didn't start there but that's where I've
[00:05:04] landed because once you start peeling
[00:05:06] back the layers you realize we have to
[00:05:08] change laws to make any progress on this
[00:05:10] stuff
[00:05:11] >> man. Well thank you for what you're
[00:05:12] doing. It's good to be in the fight.
[00:05:14] >> They always say it's a sacred honor.
[00:05:16] It's hard to say oh it's a pleasure.
[00:05:18] It's not a pleasure.
[00:05:20] >> Yeah,
[00:05:20] >> this is hard. And uh
[00:05:24] that's why Yeah, people don't want to
[00:05:26] talk about it. Um so I'm going to talk
[00:05:29] about it. I'm not going to shut up about
[00:05:31] it. Uh someone has to talk about it. And
[00:05:35] uh that's how we turn the tide.
[00:05:38] >> Not very many people talk about it, but
[00:05:40] a whole lot of people listen.
[00:05:43] >> So I think that's um that's definitely a
[00:05:46] net positive. Yeah,
[00:05:48] >> bud. All right, one more thing. Man,
[00:05:50] this seems so unappropriate, bud.
[00:05:52] Everybody gets a gift.
[00:05:55] So,
[00:05:55] >> yes,
[00:05:56] >> there you go. Vigilance League gummy
[00:05:58] bears. Made in the USA in Michigan.
[00:06:01] Legal in all 50 states, at least right
[00:06:03] now. But
[00:06:04] >> my kids are going to love these.
[00:06:06] >> I'll give you a couple more.
[00:06:07] >> Thank you. We're big gummy bear people.
[00:06:08] >> Right on. Right on.
[00:06:10] >> I brought you some stuff.
[00:06:11] >> Oh,
[00:06:12] >> my love language is gifts. And
[00:06:14] >> me, too. and uh confrontation and
[00:06:16] justice. [laughter]
[00:06:19] Um but okay, a few things here.
[00:06:22] >> Perfect.
[00:06:24] >> Um I have to work with lobbyists who I
[00:06:27] call my boots on the ground. So they all
[00:06:29] get this when we pass a law. I got you
[00:06:31] this one monogram Sean Ryan show.
[00:06:33] >> Dude, that's awesome. It's technically a
[00:06:35] wine cooler, but uh I put my husband has
[00:06:38] a regenerative farm in East Texas, and
[00:06:41] they make these uh like jerky sticks.
[00:06:44] >> Cool.
[00:06:44] >> So, that's what's in here since I know
[00:06:47] you don't drink, and now I know Katie
[00:06:48] doesn't either.
[00:06:49] >> Thank you.
[00:06:49] >> But yeah, we're going to give the boot
[00:06:51] to Child Predators today. And
[00:06:53] >> you needed that.
[00:06:54] >> I love this.
[00:06:56] >> Then I uh to be honest, until Timbo told
[00:07:00] me about this show, I'd never heard of
[00:07:02] you. And so
[00:07:04] >> that's refreshing. [laughter]
[00:07:06] >> Oh, and then because our phones listen
[00:07:08] to us, all of the sudden like Sean Ryan
[00:07:10] shows my entire algorithm. And so I uh I
[00:07:15] circled the wagons with a few of the the
[00:07:18] survivors I work with just to say I'm
[00:07:19] going on this podcast. I'm talking about
[00:07:21] Canak because any media exposure is
[00:07:25] going to be out there and it could be
[00:07:26] triggering, right? I just want them to
[00:07:28] have a heads up. Mhm. [clears throat]
[00:07:29] >> Um and so two of the current plaintiffs
[00:07:33] in active fraud litigation against Canak
[00:07:36] or they've been sued for fraud and then
[00:07:38] also all this abuse too. Uh one of them
[00:07:41] was like I love Shawn Ryan and uh do you
[00:07:45] think you could take I he just started a
[00:07:47] tequila company. Do you think you could
[00:07:49] take him some of my tequila? And so
[00:07:51] we've got that here too. I love the
[00:07:53] branding. It's called Point Blank
[00:07:54] Tequila.
[00:07:55] >> Nice. And um he said his message, this
[00:07:58] is a reposado and a blanco. He said his
[00:08:00] message today that he wanted me to pass
[00:08:03] along [snorts] is that survivors can
[00:08:05] heal and live full lives. And he's got a
[00:08:08] wife and kids, successful in real
[00:08:10] estate, and uh also started a side
[00:08:12] hustle tequila business.
[00:08:14] >> Oh man, I love that.
[00:08:16] >> This is from Andrew Summers
[00:08:17] [clears throat] up fighting for justice,
[00:08:20] making tequila along the way.
[00:08:22] >> Thank you. [laughter]
[00:08:24] Super cool. Thank you.
[00:08:29] Those will be in the studio, too.
[00:08:31] >> Awesome.
[00:08:32] >> I'm not going to drink them, but
[00:08:33] somebody might.
[00:08:34] >> Well, you you seem to have quite the
[00:08:35] collection.
[00:08:36] >> They look awesome in here.
[00:08:37] >> Um, this is also swag from my husband's
[00:08:40] farm. It says, "Come and take it." This
[00:08:42] is their logo.
[00:08:42] >> Nice.
[00:08:44] Thank you. Awesome. Thank you.
[00:08:48] [clears throat]
[00:08:49] All right. So, Elizabeth, if if you
[00:08:51] don't mind it in just give us a brief
[00:08:54] very brief summary of what we're about
[00:08:56] to dive into and then and then we'll get
[00:08:59] into the whole thing. I just want to
[00:09:00] give the audience a little snapshot of
[00:09:03] what they're in for here.
[00:09:04] >> Okay. [sighs] So, um, my, uh, family
[00:09:10] grew up in evangelical,
[00:09:12] uh, circles and Canut Camps was the
[00:09:16] place for, uh, summer camp in the '9s,
[00:09:19] 2000s. And so, we all went there. Um, my
[00:09:24] brother Trey was unfortunately groomed
[00:09:26] and horribly sexually abused and what we
[00:09:29] now believe also trafficked uh, by this
[00:09:32] mega ministry based out of Southwest
[00:09:34] Missouri. He ended his life in 2019
[00:09:39] and uh I've been on a journey ever since
[00:09:42] to find out what what happened to my
[00:09:44] brother and then that led down this path
[00:09:46] of well what's up with Kanek and then
[00:09:49] what's up with summer camps in general
[00:09:51] and so I've been like Aaron
[00:09:53] Brockoviching this whole situation of
[00:09:56] like how do we get to the bottom of
[00:09:59] what's going on here and then how do we
[00:10:01] prevent it in the future? Mhm.
[00:10:04] >> Uh speaking specifically about
[00:10:05] institutional child sexual abuse.
[00:10:09] >> It's going to get heavy. All right.
[00:10:12] Where did you grow up?
[00:10:13] >> We're going to laugh. We're going to
[00:10:13] cry. We're going to feel all the things.
[00:10:16] Um I know I'm going to cry cuz talking
[00:10:18] about my brother's the hardest part of
[00:10:19] this for me. I I can talk about
[00:10:22] statistics and stuff all day, but
[00:10:25] uh I'm here because I lost a sibling
[00:10:28] under really horrible circumstances that
[00:10:29] he didn't deserve.
[00:10:31] >> I'm sorry.
[00:10:32] >> Thanks.
[00:10:33] You've lost a lot of people, too.
[00:10:36] >> I have.
[00:10:38] Where did you grow up?
[00:10:40] >> So, we grew up in I was born in Boston.
[00:10:43] Dad was in grad school up there. We
[00:10:46] moved to Tampa, Florida, and then to
[00:10:47] Dallas and uh then Atlanta and then back
[00:10:51] to Dallas. So, I changed schools eight
[00:10:54] times before college.
[00:10:56] >> Wow. [laughter]
[00:10:57] >> Always the new kid. Kind of sink or
[00:10:59] swim, right? Um but ended up I mean yeah
[00:11:05] I high school especially had a a great
[00:11:07] experience
[00:11:09] uh ended up class president as the new
[00:11:12] kid.
[00:11:12] >> Wow.
[00:11:12] >> I always say I peaked in high school
[00:11:15] [laughter]
[00:11:15] >> and uh that's the extent of my interest
[00:11:18] in politics uh was uh I actually I have
[00:11:21] to plan our 20-year reunion this year.
[00:11:23] Snuck up on me.
[00:11:24] >> Nice.
[00:11:25] >> I ran my campaign on that. I would throw
[00:11:27] better class reunions than my opponent.
[00:11:30] So, I've got to deliver on my campaign
[00:11:32] pledge from 2006. [laughter]
[00:11:35] >> Anyways, um
[00:11:36] >> when did you start going to Canook?
[00:11:38] >> Oh, so back then I think it started age
[00:11:41] six, seven
[00:11:43] kids are going to go six, seven.
[00:11:45] >> Did you age six or seven? Uh I went
[00:11:47] seven years myself.
[00:11:49] >> You did?
[00:11:50] >> Yeah.
[00:11:50] >> What was I mean what is it? I' I'd never
[00:11:52] heard of it until until I told
[00:11:55] >> Tim told me that you never heard of it.
[00:11:57] I I looked you up when he mentioned your
[00:11:59] name and it said you were from Missouri
[00:12:00] and I was like well he's probably heard
[00:12:01] of Kanek and Tim was like no he hadn't
[00:12:03] heard about it.
[00:12:04] >> Um so it's the large
[00:12:07] >> Catholic.
[00:12:08] >> Yeah,
[00:12:08] >> we don't do these things.
[00:12:10] >> Well, [laughter] they do offer a
[00:12:12] Catholic mass for the very small group
[00:12:14] of
[00:12:15] >> I guess we do do these things
[00:12:16] >> that go to Canak. Um but this camp has
[00:12:20] been around 100 years and it's been
[00:12:23] under the White family's leadership
[00:12:25] since the 1950s.
[00:12:27] um in the 70s that became Joe White and
[00:12:30] his wife Debbie Joe White. And um it's
[00:12:34] an evangelical sports camp. Ton of
[00:12:37] Christian celebrities have gone there,
[00:12:38] sent their kids there, performed there.
[00:12:41] Um it was the place in the '9s. You were
[00:12:45] considered uh kind of upper class and
[00:12:50] you you it's expensive. I mean thousands
[00:12:52] of dollars to go there for a week. uh
[00:12:55] attracted kids from all over the
[00:12:57] country. They claim all 50 states and
[00:12:59] several countries abroad to Teny County,
[00:13:02] Missouri, southwest Missouri uh every
[00:13:04] summer driving about 25,000 families to
[00:13:07] that part of the state.
[00:13:08] >> What town is it? Is this in Springfield?
[00:13:10] >> You fly into Springfield if you fly, but
[00:13:12] it's in Branson area.
[00:13:15] >> Yeah. Have you ever been to Branson?
[00:13:17] >> Oh, yeah.
[00:13:18] >> It's like a Christian Las Vegas.
[00:13:20] >> Yeah. [laughter]
[00:13:21] >> It's so wild. It's the only theme park
[00:13:23] I've ever been to that doesn't sell any
[00:13:25] booze.
[00:13:26] >> Yeah. [laughter]
[00:13:28] >> Silver Dollar City. Yeah. I was like,
[00:13:30] what's that called? Silver Dollar City.
[00:13:32] Exactly. So, like Yeah. The whole Canak
[00:13:34] situation is like that show Ozark meets
[00:13:36] righteous gemstones if you've seen those
[00:13:38] shows. And uh you've got Joe White who's
[00:13:42] this big character and um
[00:13:46] people worshiped him next to God and he
[00:13:49] was really high-profile in the '9s. um
[00:13:52] in 2000 wrote I mean 14 at least books
[00:13:57] uh published by focus on the family.
[00:13:58] They've sent focus on the family's taken
[00:14:00] all of that down since this has been
[00:14:02] exposed. Um but he was a meast star um
[00:14:08] stadium speaker like he would give the
[00:14:12] commencement at Liberty University's
[00:14:14] graduation or whatever. He would uh go
[00:14:18] to PromiseKeepers events and be a
[00:14:20] featured speaker at those types of
[00:14:22] conferences.
[00:14:24] Um so
[00:14:25] >> the guy that runs the whole thing.
[00:14:27] >> Yeah. Still he's still he's the CEO and
[00:14:29] his own board chair.
[00:14:33] >> We'll get into why that's problematic,
[00:14:34] but yeah. So hu 500,000 alumni.
[00:14:38] >> So 500,000 kids have gone through this
[00:14:40] camp. 50,000 staff roughly. This is, you
[00:14:44] know, from what they've reported. And
[00:14:46] then they have, you know, they're not
[00:14:48] your mom and pop shop camp. They have
[00:14:51] year-round ministries. Uh they have K
[00:14:54] life uh which is it was in over 20
[00:14:58] cities. I think it that's dwindled down
[00:15:01] to uh maybe 17 since we started exposing
[00:15:04] stuff. Sorry, not sorry. But that's how
[00:15:06] they recruit campers year round is these
[00:15:08] weekly Bible studies through K life. And
[00:15:11] then um you can go to camp. They also
[00:15:15] have I mean it's a whole trajectory from
[00:15:18] starting at camp at a young age. Uh then
[00:15:22] after camp you can become a counselor.
[00:15:24] But between high school and college they
[00:15:26] also offer something called linkier like
[00:15:27] this gap year program. And uh that's run
[00:15:31] by a guy named Adam Dier under the can
[00:15:33] ministries umbrella. And linkier also
[00:15:37] has link academy and link hoops. Link
[00:15:40] Hoops is a basketball academy. They're
[00:15:42] one of the top in the country now,
[00:15:44] actually.
[00:15:45] >> But people don't realize they're tied to
[00:15:46] Canak.
[00:15:49] Um then they have a segregated camp for
[00:15:53] urban youth. Um that's called Kids
[00:15:56] Across America. And um
[00:15:59] >> urban youth.
[00:16:01] >> Yeah. They used to say inner city
[00:16:02] children.
[00:16:03] >> Oh,
[00:16:03] >> now it's okay.
[00:16:04] >> Urban youth basically like black kids.
[00:16:08] Okay.
[00:16:09] >> And uh so they have kids across America
[00:16:13] for that. They have then the full paying
[00:16:15] tuition
[00:16:17] uh camps that are majority white kids.
[00:16:21] They're next door to each other. They
[00:16:23] have historically had a camp in
[00:16:26] Colorado. Um that no longer exists. Uh
[00:16:31] >> why not?
[00:16:32] >> That shut down. Um there was a divorce
[00:16:35] in the family. Joe White's daughter, she
[00:16:38] still is like the director of alumni
[00:16:40] engagement for the camp, but her
[00:16:42] ex-husband, they got divorced and I
[00:16:44] think it just kind of fizzled.
[00:16:46] >> Um, but yeah, so massive pres they claim
[00:16:50] to have a presence in over 50
[00:16:52] international locations.
[00:16:54] It's concerning. We'll get into why. Um,
[00:16:57] and Joe White brands himself as an
[00:17:01] author and a speaker. He has Dr. Joe
[00:17:03] White on some of his book covers. She's
[00:17:05] not a doctor.
[00:17:07] >> Oh boy, here we go.
[00:17:08] >> One of those. Um, and uh,
[00:17:13] >> this is We'll get into it.
[00:17:15] >> Yeah, we'll get into it. Uh, then, uh,
[00:17:18] yeah, through his books and his speaking
[00:17:21] tours, he he's known for his crucifixion
[00:17:23] reenactments.
[00:17:25] Uh, yeah. So, it's called Cross Talk.
[00:17:28] And at camp, uh, there would be one
[00:17:32] night where there's like a bonfire, like
[00:17:34] a burning cross, and, uh, yeah, bonfire
[00:17:38] cross, and you nail your sins to the
[00:17:40] cross, and everyone's weeping. These are
[00:17:41] like sevenyear-old kids in some of the
[00:17:44] camps. Um, and Joe White when uh, he's a
[00:17:48] double amputee now. He's physically
[00:17:50] unable to uh, do this, but he used to
[00:17:53] like carry the cross and be Jesus. And
[00:17:56] then he would like use a chainsaw or an
[00:17:58] axe and like cut up a cross, build a
[00:18:00] cross and like present the gospel
[00:18:02] message.
[00:18:04] And uh it triggered an emotional
[00:18:07] reaction in a lot of kids. So they were
[00:18:08] like, "Yes, I'll accept Christ. Yes, I
[00:18:10] don't want to go to hell."
[00:18:12] >> Um in my opinion, like kind of an
[00:18:14] unnecessary way to uh bring kids to uh
[00:18:19] Christianity.
[00:18:20] Um but they [clears throat] do a lot of
[00:18:22] that kind of stuff. And um it started
[00:18:25] out as a boys camp in 1926 in the
[00:18:28] Ozarks, Can of Cut Camps for boys, and
[00:18:32] then they opened a girls camp in 1958.
[00:18:36] Cano. So the boys are called Cucks and
[00:18:39] the girls are called KO.
[00:18:41] >> Okay.
[00:18:41] >> And it's co-ed now. Um
[00:18:43] >> so now it's all Canak.
[00:18:45] >> Now it's all Canak, but then they have
[00:18:47] different Canuck camps. Um, so I
[00:18:50] mentioned Kids Across America for that
[00:18:52] socioeconomic level. And then there's K
[00:18:57] Country, which is where the uh super
[00:19:00] predator was. He was the director. I
[00:19:03] hate it when the media reports him as a
[00:19:04] counselor. Like he was just a random
[00:19:06] counsel. No, he was the era parent to
[00:19:07] Joe White's throne.
[00:19:09] >> He what?
[00:19:10] >> Yeah. He's in prison for three life
[00:19:12] terms, my brother's perpetrator. But he
[00:19:14] was going to be the next Joe White. He
[00:19:16] was the rain maker. But that's his camp,
[00:19:18] K Country, and that's like elementary
[00:19:20] age children. And then there's K West
[00:19:22] for like pre-teens, 12 to 14 year olds.
[00:19:24] There's K1 where you can go for a month
[00:19:27] and that's after you graduate from K
[00:19:28] country. There's K7 which used to just
[00:19:30] be one week and you like stayed in
[00:19:32] teepee. Uh and then there's K2 which is
[00:19:35] for the teens.
[00:19:37] Um and that's a month-long thing. So
[00:19:41] there's a lot of different camps within
[00:19:43] the Canak camps umbrella and they call
[00:19:46] it Kanak Ministries now um because they
[00:19:50] have all sorts of other programming like
[00:19:52] I mentioned like the basketball academy
[00:19:54] they spun off a tech platform called
[00:19:55] circuitry.
[00:19:56] >> So this is this is a huge
[00:20:00] this is an empire. This is in some camp
[00:20:03] to 45 million in annual revenue.
[00:20:06] >> Okay.
[00:20:07] >> Yeah.
[00:20:08] >> Okay.
[00:20:09] Wow.
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[00:22:22] And this started in n in the 1920s
[00:22:24] >> 1926.
[00:22:26] >> And this guy's still alive. He's still
[00:22:27] running it. So,
[00:22:28] >> or he took it over from somebody.
[00:22:30] >> He took it over from his dad in the 70s.
[00:22:32] Um, but it was started by a guy named CL
[00:22:34] Ford out of Dallas and then he handed it
[00:22:37] off to this guy, Coach Bill Lance. And
[00:22:40] then that guy handed it over to uh Spike
[00:22:43] White, Joe White's dad. And then, uh,
[00:22:47] Joe White went to SMU. I went to SMU in
[00:22:50] Dallas, too. Um, and he got a biology
[00:22:53] degree undergrad. So when he says doctor
[00:22:57] on his books, there's no PhD, there's
[00:23:00] like no seminary degree. Uh it's like an
[00:23:03] honorary doctorate and like an honorary
[00:23:06] >> Yeah.
[00:23:06] >> whatever. One of those.
[00:23:07] >> Um but he Yeah, he rides on that pretty
[00:23:10] hard. And he's branded himself as
[00:23:12] America's expert on teenagers, on teen
[00:23:15] purity.
[00:23:16] >> Sounds like it. He's wr written books
[00:23:18] called like pure excitement about teen
[00:23:21] purity and um multiple of them like very
[00:23:24] obsessed with like sex and purity and um
[00:23:30] I think for someone who's in his mid70s
[00:23:32] it's getting a little creepy.
[00:23:33] >> Is he
[00:23:36] I mean we're going to get into all of it
[00:23:38] but [snorts] I mean what what is what is
[00:23:40] what is the
[00:23:44] what is the experience? But what do what
[00:23:46] do what do kids that aren't abused? What
[00:23:48] did you come home and say about it? What
[00:23:49] is your experience there? I'm just
[00:23:51] curious.
[00:23:52] >> I mean,
[00:23:52] >> what do you do there?
[00:23:54] >> My whole family was groomed during my
[00:23:56] experience. So, like there are people
[00:23:58] who had great experiences. I look back
[00:24:00] on mine and I'm like, well, that was
[00:24:01] just they were grooming our whole
[00:24:03] family. Um, but
[00:24:06] I mean there's so many fun things to do
[00:24:09] on the water. It's like prime real
[00:24:11] estate along these lakes in the Ozarks.
[00:24:14] Um, Lake Tanny Ko and there's like part
[00:24:18] of it that's on a different lake. Uh,
[00:24:20] Table Rock Lake Adventures. They take
[00:24:23] kids spelunking. Um, there's you can
[00:24:26] choose a sport kind of like you choose a
[00:24:28] major in college, you choose major like
[00:24:30] I would do dance or like boys could
[00:24:33] choose if they wanted to do basketball
[00:24:34] or football. Um, and they've turned out
[00:24:37] some great athletes actually and a lot
[00:24:39] of NFL players have sent their kids
[00:24:41] there because it's a good football
[00:24:42] program.
[00:24:44] um you have no access to watches or
[00:24:50] telephones and so if there is something
[00:24:53] that goes wrong it's very hard to reach
[00:24:54] the outside world and I think that's how
[00:24:56] abuse proliferated not that kids should
[00:24:59] have phones and at camp I'm not saying
[00:25:00] that but like uh it's pretty locked down
[00:25:03] and strict like you're up at this time
[00:25:06] you clean your cabin you um a lot of
[00:25:11] devotionals and prayer time and talks
[00:25:13] you know, preaching and um and then some
[00:25:16] of it's really fun. Um, you know, just
[00:25:19] rotating throughout the day of you got
[00:25:21] tennis and then you got canoeing and
[00:25:23] then you're going to make a craft and
[00:25:25] then there's themed parties at night.
[00:25:28] Um, so that's when the boys and the
[00:25:31] girls interact is at these theme parties
[00:25:32] at night and then they'll send you the
[00:25:34] list of what the themes are going to be
[00:25:35] so you can pack your trunk for camp with
[00:25:37] like fun costumes for the theme nights.
[00:25:39] Um, and so I actually I hated it. I
[00:25:42] hated camp like the first few years. I
[00:25:44] was just super homesick. I liked it more
[00:25:46] as I got older. Um, but I had no idea
[00:25:51] what was going on with the the abuse. It
[00:25:54] was and now in hindsight,
[00:25:57] it was interesting how I got Kikapoo
[00:26:00] Princess at K Country under Pete
[00:26:03] Newman's directorship. Um, I always got
[00:26:06] the best dancer award. I wasn't the best
[00:26:07] dancer. like the things like that just
[00:26:10] to show favoritism to our family
[00:26:12] whenever they had this thing called
[00:26:14] winter trail. I think they still do it
[00:26:15] where they travel around in the
[00:26:17] offseason and go to different people's
[00:26:18] homes to fundra and to recruit like
[00:26:21] these marketing events. They would
[00:26:23] always want to stay at our house and
[00:26:24] we'd host things for them in Dallas. Um
[00:26:28] we'd let them borrow our car to go to a
[00:26:30] church, you know, out in one of the
[00:26:32] suburbs and do their presentation there.
[00:26:35] Um, so we were definitely targeted and
[00:26:39] they targeted a lot of families that,
[00:26:41] you know, had influence or money and
[00:26:43] stuff. And so, um, it's a little bit
[00:26:46] different than what you typically hear
[00:26:47] in these situations where, um, it's
[00:26:50] children that are vulnerable because
[00:26:51] they've been in foster care or they
[00:26:53] have, um, you they're in poverty or
[00:26:57] something. This, they were targeting
[00:26:59] like the elite evangelical crowd.
[00:27:02] >> Interesting. Yeah. Why do you why why do
[00:27:05] you think they were targeting that
[00:27:06] crowd? I'm just curious.
[00:27:07] >> No, because they were all about money.
[00:27:08] So, like it started out as a nonprofit
[00:27:11] um and then they conveniently
[00:27:13] restructured at certain key dates when
[00:27:16] >> if it's all about the money, why would
[00:27:18] you target the people with the money's
[00:27:21] kids?
[00:27:23] um because they wanted to make you feel
[00:27:25] VIP and special and then offer you know
[00:27:28] hunting trips or you know dry white
[00:27:31] flies around on his private plane and um
[00:27:34] >> are you I'm talking about were you
[00:27:36] targeted was your family targeted
[00:27:38] because they wanted to abuse your
[00:27:39] brother or for the money or for both?
[00:27:41] >> Oh both. So, like I feel like uh for Joe
[00:27:44] White, we were targeted because we had a
[00:27:46] nice house and could host events for
[00:27:48] them and donate to the ministry. And
[00:27:50] then with Pete Newman, my brother's
[00:27:53] perpetrator, he was grooming like, you
[00:27:55] know, giving us that special treatment
[00:27:56] at his camp. Um, also because, you know,
[00:28:00] they wanted our donations, but because
[00:28:03] he wanted Trey.
[00:28:06] >> So, these are unrelated.
[00:28:08] It's too You're being targeted,
[00:28:10] >> I think. I think at a you know if you
[00:28:13] look at the whole case it does seem kind
[00:28:16] of coordinated.
[00:28:17] >> Okay.
[00:28:23] Jeez.
[00:28:26] >> Yeah.
[00:28:27] >> How many kids will go to this at once?
[00:28:31] >> So their materials have cited numbers
[00:28:33] like 27,000 teenagers per summer.
[00:28:37] >> 27,000 teenagers per summer. 25,000
[00:28:41] families go to Branson every year for
[00:28:44] summer camp or uh I think more recently
[00:28:47] I've seen numbers cited as like 10,000.
[00:28:49] So I don't know if that's like dwindling
[00:28:51] or they're just were they exaggerating
[00:28:54] their numbers. But we're talk it's not
[00:28:56] like a again not a typical mom and pop
[00:29:00] shop kind of camp. This is a mega
[00:29:02] ministry. It's the largest summer camp
[00:29:04] in the world. I mean, we have it's it's
[00:29:08] put 500,000 people through, but that
[00:29:10] would only be 20 years worth of kids. I
[00:29:12] mean, I know it grow and we're talking
[00:29:14] about this has been a hundred years.
[00:29:16] >> Well, yeah, but like they are repeat
[00:29:18] customers, right? So, like
[00:29:19] >> Okay.
[00:29:20] >> People go through high school.
[00:29:22] >> Okay.
[00:29:23] >> And then sometimes they'll do winkier
[00:29:25] and then they'll go to college and be a
[00:29:26] counselor there. And then on the other
[00:29:28] side of college, you can do the Kanekuck
[00:29:31] Institute, which they've called like a
[00:29:33] master's in ethics, ironically. Uh, and
[00:29:36] so you can the pipeline is that's why
[00:29:40] it's jokingly called the canacult. And
[00:29:43] from my research, I don't even joke
[00:29:44] about is like the canult, right? They
[00:29:47] keep you in, they suck you in, and you
[00:29:48] stay there to the point where people
[00:29:50] feel financially held hostage.
[00:29:55] It's wild. And so that's the that's the
[00:29:57] pipeline, you know, from early childhood
[00:30:00] through adulthood, there's always a
[00:30:01] place for you at Kanek. And so then you
[00:30:03] go to the institute, then you can like
[00:30:04] work at Kanek uh beyond that in a
[00:30:07] leadership role.
[00:30:08] >> Wow.
[00:30:08] >> Um so a lot of their staff, you know,
[00:30:10] they've grown up in this and
[00:30:12] >> and stayed
[00:30:13] >> 100% bought in.
[00:30:15] >> 100% bought in. Even those that have
[00:30:18] kids that were victimized, it's crazy.
[00:30:20] What? What?
[00:30:22] >> That's where it's like, you know, that's
[00:30:24] the cult piece of it, right? It's like,
[00:30:26] why would you stay at an institution
[00:30:29] where your own child was abused?
[00:30:30] >> This [ __ ] sounds like the Jehovah's
[00:30:32] Witnesses.
[00:30:34] This is [ __ ] crazy.
[00:30:36] >> It's crazy. Yeah.
[00:30:40] >> Where do we go from here?
[00:30:43] >> I mean, what do you want to know? I I
[00:30:45] have five year I mean I can go through
[00:30:47] kind of like how we started this
[00:30:48] investigation out and where we are now
[00:30:50] and like
[00:30:51] >> let's talk about what happened.
[00:30:52] >> Yeah. Let's go back. Okay. So, um
[00:30:56] my husband and I, we were living in
[00:30:59] North Carolina in our 20s. I'd spent a
[00:31:02] lot of time.
[00:31:03] >> Are you older or younger than your
[00:31:04] >> I'm the oldest?
[00:31:05] >> You're the oldest?
[00:31:06] >> Yeah. I'm much older.
[00:31:07] >> Three years.
[00:31:08] >> Okay. And um I had gone to SMU,
[00:31:12] graduated a year early, went over to
[00:31:14] Uganda to help start up a social
[00:31:16] enterprise and uh did that off and on
[00:31:19] for 6 years. Started having babies.
[00:31:21] Commute got a little hard to Uganda with
[00:31:23] babies. And um we moved to North
[00:31:27] Carolina where my husband's from uh to
[00:31:29] run the family business on his side
[00:31:32] which came with a newly endowed
[00:31:33] foundation, the Phillips Foundation,
[00:31:34] which I've been running since 2013. And
[00:31:38] um so we had day jobs, we were having
[00:31:40] kids and um my brother was really
[00:31:44] struggling. I remember being pregnant
[00:31:46] with my first uh son and my I would get
[00:31:50] these calls from my mom or my dad and
[00:31:52] they'd be like, "We just had to put Trey
[00:31:53] in treatment. He's not doing well." Um
[00:31:57] and
[00:31:58] it was just a roller coaster um for a
[00:32:03] until uh he died. Uh, but I didn't
[00:32:09] really know what had happened to Trey. I
[00:32:11] remember when when he was 21, Pete
[00:32:13] Newman was arrested. So, I would have
[00:32:14] been 24. Pete Newman was arrested and
[00:32:19] ultimately sentenced to three life
[00:32:22] terms.
[00:32:23] >> Arrested for what?
[00:32:24] >> Seven felony counts of child sexual
[00:32:27] abuse.
[00:32:28] >> Seven felony accounts of child sexual
[00:32:30] abuse at Camp Canak.
[00:32:32] >> Yeah. And I bulk it at at Camp Canak
[00:32:35] because these boys were abused all over
[00:32:36] the place.
[00:32:37] >> Okay.
[00:32:38] >> So, it wasn't just at camp. It was in
[00:32:40] their own homes. Sometimes it was on
[00:32:42] mission trips to China where he would
[00:32:43] film them getting massages. So, we're
[00:32:46] talking child sexual abuse material
[00:32:48] being created. That never got
[00:32:49] investigated. It it was investigated by
[00:32:53] the Teny County Sheriff's Department and
[00:32:55] they never looked into Pete Newman's
[00:32:58] devices for CCM. when we have witnesses
[00:33:00] who were on those trips saying, "We saw
[00:33:01] Pete Newman filming these boys getting
[00:33:03] massages and having the massage
[00:33:05] therapists activate their groin areas so
[00:33:07] he could film it."
[00:33:08] >> So, they were abused all over the place.
[00:33:10] There were trips to Haiti, um,
[00:33:14] you know, in the name of Canak
[00:33:16] International mission trips. Um,
[00:33:20] there were I mean, Trinidad and Tobago,
[00:33:23] all over the world. And um
[00:33:27] so where was I with that? The basically
[00:33:30] like my I didn't really know the extent
[00:33:32] of what happened to my brother until so
[00:33:35] he was not doing well and then he
[00:33:37] decided to pursue civil litigation
[00:33:39] against Kanek. After the criminal case
[00:33:41] closed, he was named as a victim.
[00:33:45] Uh right when Pete Newman got arrested,
[00:33:47] Joe White flew down on his private plane
[00:33:49] to Dallas and asked for a meeting with
[00:33:50] my dad and Trey. Manto man, like leave
[00:33:53] my mom out of it. He didn't want a angry
[00:33:56] mom involved. And uh this was before the
[00:34:00] story really broke and he was like,
[00:34:01] "It's going to come out that Pete Newman
[00:34:04] was abusing boys, but it was really just
[00:34:06] boys being boys." Typical middle middle
[00:34:09] school masturbation and experimentation
[00:34:12] like minimized it, downplayed it with my
[00:34:14] brother Trey right there. Basically
[00:34:17] saying, "Here's the story and you're
[00:34:18] sticking to it. It wasn't a big deal."
[00:34:21] >> Now, do you think this guy knew that
[00:34:24] your brother was abused.
[00:34:25] >> Yeah, because he was on a list.
[00:34:28] >> Pete Newman provided a list of victims.
[00:34:30] >> So this is after he was arrested.
[00:34:31] >> This was uh so the exact chronology is
[00:34:35] like March 2009. He uh confesses to
[00:34:39] Kanek leadership that he's been abusing
[00:34:43] boys.
[00:34:44] >> What year?
[00:34:45] >> Hm.
[00:34:45] >> What year?
[00:34:46] >> 2009.
[00:34:49] March 2009. And uh he'd been caught
[00:34:51] multiple times before skinny dipping
[00:34:54] um riding four-wheelers nude with boys.
[00:34:59] >> Go ahead. [laughter]
[00:35:01] >> I know. Um
[00:35:04] they called him in 1999 and 2001 and
[00:35:07] 2003 and 200.
[00:35:08] >> Jeff White.
[00:35:09] >> Joe White. Yeah.
[00:35:10] >> Joe White.
[00:35:10] >> We can call him Jeff. [laughter]
[00:35:12] >> Jeff. Whatever. Joe White has a has the
[00:35:16] head guy of all these kids riding riding
[00:35:19] around four-wheelers naked with him.
[00:35:22] >> Yeah. And it gets reported back to the
[00:35:23] camp like they knew this stuff was
[00:35:25] happening. And in one of the depositions
[00:35:28] as this
[00:35:29] >> So they just sweep this [ __ ] under the
[00:35:30] rug and they don't even tell him don't
[00:35:32] do it again.
[00:35:33] >> They're like, "Oh, that's just boys
[00:35:34] being boys."
[00:35:35] >> Boys being boys.
[00:35:36] >> And uh
[00:35:38] well I can show you what they did to
[00:35:40] discipline him. I have the record here.
[00:35:43] Uh but it basically
[00:35:45] >> see it.
[00:35:45] >> Yeah, we'll we'll pull it out. Um but
[00:35:48] real quick, so like the four-wheeler
[00:35:50] thing, the naked basketball, the nude
[00:35:52] swimming. Uh Joe White was asked in a
[00:35:55] deposition like you don't think that is
[00:35:57] child sexual abuse? Like Pete Newman
[00:36:00] naked in front of these young boys? And
[00:36:02] Joe White's response was well it depends
[00:36:03] on how dark it was if they could see his
[00:36:06] penis.
[00:36:10] People still send their kids to this
[00:36:12] place.
[00:36:13] >> Exactly.
[00:36:15] Like thousands of people.
[00:36:18] >> Yeah.
[00:36:18] >> I'll bet that stops after this releases.
[00:36:21] >> I hope so because kids are in danger
[00:36:23] there. And um
[00:36:26] I think that's why Tim wanted us to
[00:36:28] talk. This is what they a few things
[00:36:31] going on.
[00:36:31] >> Tim, that guy does not care about
[00:36:34] anything more than saving kids,
[00:36:37] >> right? And uh
[00:36:40] I'll talk more about what we're
[00:36:42] partnering on together um to protect
[00:36:45] kids, but this is one example of how
[00:36:48] they disciplined Pete Newman when he was
[00:36:50] uh in those situations with boys. They
[00:36:53] called it boys being boys.
[00:36:56] And he actually uh there's a document
[00:37:00] where here it is.
[00:37:06] They made him take a test
[00:37:12] and then they made him sign a contract
[00:37:14] to spend more time with his wife, not
[00:37:16] spend so much time in the hot tub with a
[00:37:19] lot of the abuse would happen in the hot
[00:37:20] tubs. And then this is they sent him to
[00:37:23] a counselor who gave him this
[00:37:24] questionnaire.
[00:37:29] List three reasons why camp counselors
[00:37:32] sometimes get accused of inappropriate
[00:37:34] conduct with campers.
[00:37:40] It's hard to read his handwriting.
[00:37:42] >> Yeah, that's all Pete Newman's
[00:37:43] handwriting.
[00:37:44] >> Conduct has been inappropriate. Child
[00:37:46] has past abuse experiences that
[00:37:50] stimulate fear.
[00:37:53] They are careless in ministry strategy
[00:37:56] and uneducated. List three good ways to
[00:37:59] avoid accusations of improper sexual
[00:38:01] conduct toward a camper.
[00:38:04] One, avoid alone time with kids of
[00:38:06] opposite sex. Avoid sexual humor,
[00:38:09] inappropriate jokes. Never have alone
[00:38:12] sleepovers.
[00:38:14] List three things former President
[00:38:16] Clinton did wrong regarding his
[00:38:18] encounter with Monik Lewinsky. Cheated
[00:38:20] on his wife, lied about it, failed to
[00:38:22] set the example of what a leader should
[00:38:24] look like.
[00:38:29] Isn't that bizarre? And then flip to the
[00:38:30] back. Just turn the whole thing over
[00:38:33] and on the the very back page
[00:38:38] >> is a cont the next one on the very back
[00:38:40] page.
[00:38:42] >> Pete Newman objective to help Pete
[00:38:45] understand what healthy ministry is and
[00:38:47] to make sure Pete never places himself
[00:38:49] in a compromising position that his
[00:38:51] integrity would be in question. We want
[00:38:53] to ensure that Pete be involved in a
[00:38:56] lifetime of ministry. Overall boundaries
[00:38:59] for ministry. All high school ministry
[00:39:02] ends at 10 p.m. All junior high.
[00:39:03] Ministry ends at 9:00 p.m. Never show up
[00:39:05] at home unannounced. Never encourage
[00:39:07] students to disregard other
[00:39:09] responsibilities
[00:39:11] to be with you like school, family, or a
[00:39:14] job. Failure in these areas will
[00:39:16] disqualify you from ministry privileges.
[00:39:20] All contact with kids will be done in
[00:39:22] public. Never in private without parent
[00:39:24] permission. Exception. Picking up the
[00:39:26] first child and dropping off the last
[00:39:29] child from an event. You must have
[00:39:31] parents permission. Never spend the
[00:39:33] night. Never spend the night alone with
[00:39:36] a child. Never be involved in sexual
[00:39:40] humor. [snorts]
[00:39:41] Never suggest or be involved with any
[00:39:43] sexual or nude behavior. Never touch a
[00:39:46] child in a way that might be perceived
[00:39:50] is sexual in nature. Always put a stop
[00:39:53] to inappropriate behavior i.e. sexual
[00:39:56] physical nudity, vulgar speech,
[00:39:58] inappropriate humor. Failures in these
[00:40:01] will lead to instant dismissal
[00:40:04] incomplete reporting of the incident.
[00:40:06] Boundaries on local extra camp ministry
[00:40:11] limited to three nights a week. Club
[00:40:12] leadership small group one weekend a
[00:40:14] month. Two small group Bible studies,
[00:40:16] one lunch a week.
[00:40:19] Summertime boundaries,
[00:40:22] regular accountability with Will
[00:40:24] Cunningham. The amount of time can be
[00:40:27] determined later. These times might
[00:40:29] include physical workouts, biblical
[00:40:32] mentoring, detailed discussions of
[00:40:34] feelings about ministry, life, Katie,
[00:40:38] kids, personal worth, etc. No further
[00:40:41] visits from out ofstate kids, no
[00:40:43] sleepovers, i.e. E events that required
[00:40:47] Pete to spend the night alone with one
[00:40:49] or more kids. Period.
[00:40:51] Uh noticeable change in the way Pete
[00:40:54] budgets his time. Regular time with
[00:40:56] Katie. That must be his wife.
[00:40:58] >> Mhm.
[00:40:59] >> Regular time spent with peers as opposed
[00:41:02] to a lopsided
[00:41:05] inordinate amount of time spent with
[00:41:08] kids. What?
[00:41:10] >> This is how they disciplined him.
[00:41:11] >> They sign it. He signed it. And what's
[00:41:13] the date?
[00:41:14] >> 10:220.
[00:41:16] >> They knew in 03.
[00:41:19] What normal person needs a document like
[00:41:22] that?
[00:41:28] And they also have these like playbooks,
[00:41:30] these staff playbooks.
[00:41:32] >> This is
[00:41:34] >> I know
[00:41:36] that's
[00:41:37] >> anybody that's sending their kids to
[00:41:38] Camp Canook, you need to read this.
[00:41:43] Yeah,
[00:41:44] >> they're literally they have to try to
[00:41:47] coax their counselors into not having a
[00:41:50] sleepover alone with your child.
[00:41:53] >> What normal person needs that rebuke?
[00:41:57] So um
[00:42:00] in March 2009, oh so this this year 03
[00:42:04] they obviously he was escalating right
[00:42:06] his behavior and so they uh
[00:42:10] they restructured
[00:42:12] and Kanek had been a for-profit. They
[00:42:14] restructured to become a nonprofit,
[00:42:16] right? They're realizing they have
[00:42:17] liability. They hire this guy named Rick
[00:42:20] Brashler as the director of uh risk uh
[00:42:24] risk management.
[00:42:26] He's a former Pizza Hut manager and uh
[00:42:29] insurance broker to churches.
[00:42:31] >> I thought you were going to say Pizza
[00:42:32] Gate.
[00:42:34] [laughter]
[00:42:34] >> I shed my pants.
[00:42:40] >> Um so he comes over from Pizza Hut and
[00:42:42] he's suddenly the director of risk
[00:42:46] management. Uh that's in 03. And um then
[00:42:51] they catch Pete Newman again in ' 06.
[00:42:53] Somewhere between 03 and 06, his
[00:42:55] supervisor, Will Cunningham,
[00:42:56] >> what is it with pizza and little kids?
[00:42:58] What's the thing?
[00:43:01] >> Can you have someone on to answer that
[00:43:02] for us?
[00:43:04] >> So Rick is he has no qualifications in
[00:43:07] child protection or anything? And he's
[00:43:11] supposed to uh you know sharpen up the
[00:43:15] protocols for these bad act that they
[00:43:17] are keeping on staff. And not just that,
[00:43:19] Pete Newman got promoted after that.
[00:43:22] So, not only did they not report him to
[00:43:24] the authorities properly or fire him,
[00:43:26] they promoted him to director of K
[00:43:28] country.
[00:43:30] He was assistant director, then director
[00:43:32] of K country. Will Cunningham, who was
[00:43:36] his supervisor, uh recommended his
[00:43:38] termination and then he got squeezed out
[00:43:41] slowly and left Kanek. He's been very
[00:43:44] helpful to survivors in their cases now
[00:43:46] because he's like, I told them to fire
[00:43:47] the guy. Red flags all over the place.
[00:43:50] more than red flags that Joe White knew
[00:43:52] about.
[00:43:53] So, um,
[00:43:56] then there's this there are a few
[00:43:58] theories around how he ended up turning
[00:44:00] himself in in March 2009, but one thing
[00:44:04] I've heard and I know this guy in
[00:44:06] Dallas, I've heard the story directly
[00:44:07] from him. His dad was a sitting US
[00:44:09] congressman and he had sponsored a kid
[00:44:12] to go with Pete to some retreat in
[00:44:13] Alabama and the kid called back said he
[00:44:15] mo he tried to uh assault me. So that
[00:44:19] guy calls uh Pete and he says, "I'm
[00:44:22] going to have the FBI on your doorstep
[00:44:23] tomorrow morning. Uh say goodbye to your
[00:44:26] wife Katie and your kid." They had a
[00:44:28] daughter.
[00:44:30] My family threw their baby shower in
[00:44:32] Dallas.
[00:44:33] >> Whoa.
[00:44:35] >> So, um the person I'm
[00:44:39] >> Your family threw his baby shower.
[00:44:44] >> Yeah. It was considered an honor.
[00:44:46] >> Holy [ __ ] Mhm. And um so anyways,
[00:44:53] uh Pete turns himself into the Teny
[00:44:55] County Sheriff's Department. It should
[00:44:57] have been FBI from the beginning
[00:45:00] and it wasn't. It was a Teny County
[00:45:04] Sheriff's Department investigation. It
[00:45:06] was the local victims that put him away.
[00:45:09] The prosecutor at the time, Jeff
[00:45:11] Merrill, he uh said there were 55ish
[00:45:14] victims known at the time of sentencing,
[00:45:16] but he estimated a true victim count in
[00:45:18] the hundreds on Pete Newman alone.
[00:45:21] Pete's now one of over 75 perpetrators
[00:45:24] associated with Kanek we know of now
[00:45:26] through my investigate. We'll go into
[00:45:27] that, but
[00:45:28] >> did you can you say that again? Pete's
[00:45:30] one of uh over 75 perpetrators
[00:45:33] affiliated with Canak that we've
[00:45:34] uncovered to date
[00:45:37] with allegations dating back from 1958
[00:45:39] to very recently.
[00:45:42] So, um that's Pete. 55 victims known at
[00:45:46] time of sentencing. Prosecutor
[00:45:48] estimating true victim count in the in
[00:45:50] the hundreds. Uh other experts would say
[00:45:52] thousands just because he was he had
[00:45:54] unfettered access to children year round
[00:45:56] for 14 years. add that to his, you know,
[00:46:00] moda operande of like how he would
[00:46:01] abuse. Um,
[00:46:04] so yeah, hundreds, thousands of victims,
[00:46:06] Pete Newman alone.
[00:46:08] And then, um,
[00:46:10] >> hundreds to thousands of victims for
[00:46:13] Pete Newman alone,
[00:46:15] >> right?
[00:46:16] >> Alone.
[00:46:16] >> Yeah. So, Canak's crisis PR strategy on
[00:46:21] all that was,
[00:46:23] uh, well, we can't let one bad apple
[00:46:26] take down this ministry. We've saved so
[00:46:28] many souls.
[00:46:29] >> Tim had said that he was saying
[00:46:30] something in court on the stand, too, I
[00:46:32] believe. I don't know if it was Pete
[00:46:33] Newman because I wasn't familiar with
[00:46:35] any of the names.
[00:46:37] >> Oh, he said something in his uh remarks
[00:46:40] in court that don't let what I did take
[00:46:45] down this whole ministry. Kanak's good
[00:46:48] for kids. It's the happiest place on
[00:46:50] earth. Blah blah. He, you know, did his
[00:46:52] whole spiel. Um, can So he goes to
[00:46:56] prison for
[00:46:57] >> White Probably had him say that, huh?
[00:46:59] >> Yeah. Who knows? So then
[00:47:03] he goes to prison at uh Jefferson City
[00:47:05] Correctional Center. The address for
[00:47:07] that is 8,000 No More Victims Lane.
[00:47:09] That's why I call this I call it
[00:47:11] Operation Millstone because of a verse
[00:47:13] in the Bible that says, "If you are a
[00:47:14] child, you're better off with a
[00:47:15] millstone around your neck thrown into
[00:47:16] the bottom of the sea." So I call
[00:47:18] everything I'm working on related to
[00:47:20] this Operation Millstone.
[00:47:22] Um, but there's
[00:47:25] um,
[00:47:26] what was I going to say? There's a Oh,
[00:47:29] so there crisis PR strategy was there's
[00:47:31] one this was one bad apple. We can't let
[00:47:33] him destroy this entire ministry. Uh,
[00:47:36] it's the first time this has ever
[00:47:38] happened. We are so shocked.
[00:47:41] [snorts] We now know of perpetrators
[00:47:43] like going back to the very first year
[00:47:45] they opened the girls camp.
[00:47:47] Um, and then third, we're now the safest
[00:47:50] camp in America because we've learned
[00:47:51] the hard way how this could happen. And
[00:47:53] they started this Canakutuck child
[00:47:55] protection plan that's now been spewed
[00:47:57] to over 600 youth serving organizations
[00:47:59] across the country. It was accredited by
[00:48:01] the Bo Biden Foundation.
[00:48:03] And uh then they tried to get some other
[00:48:06] like uh accreditations uh on their
[00:48:09] website to look legit after they've had
[00:48:11] this massive pedophile scandal. They put
[00:48:14] the Canak child protection plan in place
[00:48:17] and uh and start going around the
[00:48:20] country talking about how they know how
[00:48:23] to handle uh camp safety now because
[00:48:26] they just had this horrible situation
[00:48:28] and they're now going to be the safest
[00:48:30] camp in America through this kanakut
[00:48:31] child protection plan. I brought a
[00:48:33] PowerPoint that they've used on that uh
[00:48:36] that in my opinion and experts opinions
[00:48:39] uh would make better pedophiles not
[00:48:42] protect kids. Um, can I show you that?
[00:48:46] >> Absolutely.
[00:48:46] >> You want to do it now?
[00:48:48] >> Yeah.
[00:48:49] >> So, this is the um
[00:48:51] >> We'll put it up on screen as we talk
[00:48:52] about it.
[00:48:58] >> There's so much to talk about.
[00:49:01] Okay, so this is a
[00:49:05] a PowerPoint that the former Pizza Hut
[00:49:08] manager Rick Brashler with no expertise
[00:49:10] in child protection put together.
[00:49:13] And I have a whole audit on it by actual
[00:49:16] subject matter experts, but this is the
[00:49:18] slide deck he uses to go to other
[00:49:21] camps.
[00:49:25] It's page 20. I have in my head page
[00:49:28] 2425.
[00:49:30] Where have you heard of Nambla? Have you
[00:49:33] heard of this?
[00:49:34] >> Amila?
[00:49:34] >> Yeah.
[00:49:35] >> No, I've not heard of that.
[00:49:36] >> I just This is G. You're going to get
[00:49:37] really pissed by this. Sorry, these
[00:49:41] pages aren't numbered.
[00:49:43] Oh, here we go.
[00:49:46] How to practice child love.
[00:49:48] >> Oh, great. [laughter]
[00:49:50] You're going to make me read this one,
[00:49:52] huh? Um,
[00:49:54] >> and then a 170 page child molestation
[00:49:56] instruction manual, nambla.org, the
[00:49:58] online voice of the North American
[00:50:00] Manboy Love Association. So, if you're a
[00:50:04] pedophile in his audience, he's showing
[00:50:06] you where to go to become a ped better
[00:50:08] pedophile.
[00:50:09] >> Who Okay, who wrote this? This is We're
[00:50:13] going to put this up on screen here.
[00:50:14] I'll read it.
[00:50:16] >> This is
[00:50:16] >> I didn't write it. How to practice child
[00:50:19] love by Richard Creech. Before you begin
[00:50:23] on the education, important info. Theory
[00:50:27] before practice, child sexuality, taboos
[00:50:30] and shame, risks involved, when to
[00:50:32] start, what age, where do I find a
[00:50:35] child? This is the this is the
[00:50:37] curriculum
[00:50:38] >> introduction. Having own children or
[00:50:41] family equal access,
[00:50:44] single parents and moms with kids,
[00:50:46] babysitting, daycare, and schools,
[00:50:48] children out in the wide in the in the
[00:50:50] wide open world. other creative methods
[00:50:52] and some final words. The four important
[00:50:55] advantages survey, approach and create a
[00:50:58] relationship. The practical steps the
[00:51:01] introduction. Step one, the first
[00:51:04] physical contact. Step two, the second
[00:51:07] physical contact. Step three, ex
[00:51:12] exploring the child's genital.
[00:51:15] Step four, exploring the adult's
[00:51:17] genital.
[00:51:20] Step five, making love for the first
[00:51:23] time. Richard Creech, 45, plead guilty
[00:51:27] May 24th, 2013. Creech used a
[00:51:31] peer-to-peer file sharing program to
[00:51:33] collect and share child pornography
[00:51:35] videos, including numerous videos of
[00:51:38] children between ages 5 and 12 years old
[00:51:42] being raped and sexually abused.
[00:51:46] Crunch's child pornography collection
[00:51:48] included more than 1,100 images and
[00:51:51] 1,300 videos of children being sexually
[00:51:55] exploited.
[00:52:02] Wow.
[00:52:03] 170page child molestation instruction
[00:52:06] manual surfaces. This is in Orange
[00:52:09] County. Orange County Sheriff deputies
[00:52:11] say that a 170 page manual is circling
[00:52:15] around Central Florida. It shows people
[00:52:18] stepby step how to molest children.
[00:52:23] Nambla.org
[00:52:25] Nambble's goal is to end the extreme
[00:52:28] oppression of men and boys in mutually
[00:52:30] consensual relationships.
[00:52:34] What
[00:52:36] the [ __ ] is this? So that's Rick
[00:52:39] Brashler's Kanak child protection plan
[00:52:43] that he says they learned of through
[00:52:45] this Pete Newman situation. So it tells
[00:52:47] you a lot about what Pete Newman was
[00:52:50] doing. This is also the playbook. You
[00:52:52] know how people say it's like they're
[00:52:53] all using the same playbook. There are
[00:52:55] playbooks that exist. Some on the dark
[00:52:59] web, some are, you know, more
[00:53:02] >> some are at Camp Canuckook.
[00:53:03] >> Some are Camp Canakook's uh creation.
[00:53:06] And uh yeah, so that's been spewed to
[00:53:10] 600 you serving organizations across the
[00:53:12] country according to Rick Brashler. He's
[00:53:15] still there as the director of risk
[00:53:16] management.
[00:53:17] >> He's still here.
[00:53:18] >> Yeah, he's still running the child
[00:53:21] protection plan for Canak. The other
[00:53:23] thing I was going to mention is that uh
[00:53:26] so Pete went away in 2010 for three life
[00:53:29] terms and then they implement this
[00:53:31] Kanakut child protection plan in 2010
[00:53:34] and then in 2011 they had another arrest
[00:53:37] by a pedophile named Lee Bradberry who
[00:53:40] was a counselor. I think he had five
[00:53:42] counts of sodomizing a child and uh he
[00:53:46] just got out of prison.
[00:53:48] >> He's out.
[00:53:48] >> Yeah, he jumped the registry. We got him
[00:53:50] put back on. But
[00:53:51] >> what's his name?
[00:53:52] >> Lee Bradberry.
[00:53:53] >> Where's he live?
[00:53:54] >> Pelum, Alabama.
[00:53:56] >> Pelum, Alabama.
[00:53:58] Lee Bradford.
[00:54:00] >> Bradberry.
[00:54:01] >> Bradberry.
[00:54:02] >> Mhm. Yeah. We have all
[00:54:04] >> the Bradberry.
[00:54:05] >> Yeah. Uh I helped set up a website
[00:54:08] called factsaboutanak.com once I
[00:54:10] connected with other survivor families.
[00:54:13] And there's a page on facts about that's
[00:54:16] known abusers and you can see all their
[00:54:18] mug shots. We just added another one
[00:54:20] yesterday. It's like never ending.
[00:54:22] >> How many are there?
[00:54:23] >> So, there are
[00:54:24] >> How many have you found?
[00:54:26] >> Over 75.
[00:54:27] >> Over 75 sexual abusers
[00:54:30] >> affiliated with Kanek Ministries and Joe
[00:54:32] White. But there's 13 that have publicly
[00:54:35] uh been alleged and 12 of those have
[00:54:38] convictions. There's a 13th who because
[00:54:40] of statute of limitations is just out
[00:54:42] there living his best life. But he was
[00:54:44] publicly alleged in USA Today in an
[00:54:46] article that uh we helped with. So, um,
[00:54:50] 13 on our
[00:54:51] >> What's his name?
[00:54:52] >> Um, that's Chuck Price.
[00:54:54] >> Chuck Price. Where's he live?
[00:54:56] >> St. Louis.
[00:54:57] >> St. Louis, Missouri.
[00:55:00] >> That's a whole story. I Yeah, I need to
[00:55:02] tell you that story cuz you lived in St.
[00:55:04] Louis, right?
[00:55:06] >> Mhm.
[00:55:07] >> Yeah. Yeah. His victim lives in Utah.
[00:55:10] There's multiple of them. Um, but all
[00:55:12] that to say, this Canuck Child
[00:55:14] Protection Plan that was supposed to be
[00:55:15] their saving grace, it failed
[00:55:18] immediately when Lee Bradberry was
[00:55:20] arrested in 2011.
[00:55:22] >> Jeez.
[00:55:23] >> So, um, I don't I mean, they've gotten
[00:55:28] away with this for so long. And then
[00:55:31] Trey suicides.
[00:55:34] Um, this is after
[00:55:36] years of I mean, so Pete Newman went
[00:55:39] away when he was 23. when Trey was 23.
[00:55:41] So, Pete Newman was arrested at age 21
[00:55:44] and when Trey was 21. And then under the
[00:55:47] current civil statute of limitations in
[00:55:48] Texas, if you were abused as a child
[00:55:51] between 1995 and 2015, you only have
[00:55:53] until the age of 23 to sue um liable
[00:55:56] institutions or perpetrator. So,
[00:56:00] Trey was forced to file a civil lawsuit
[00:56:03] cuz he was not doing well and he needed
[00:56:05] therapy. And uh that ended with a
[00:56:09] restrictive NDA, a settlement agreement
[00:56:10] that had a restrictive NDA. So he
[00:56:12] couldn't talk about what happened to
[00:56:13] him. He couldn't talk about Kanek's role
[00:56:15] in all of this. And he was one of the
[00:56:18] John Doe's that filed a civil case um
[00:56:22] pretty soon after Pete went to prison.
[00:56:24] And I didn't really understand all that.
[00:56:27] I all I remember is at one point I was
[00:56:31] going to be deposed and other family
[00:56:33] members were going to be deposed. I was
[00:56:34] pregnant with my second kid at that
[00:56:36] point and Trey wanted to spare me from
[00:56:40] going through depositions pregnant cuz
[00:56:41] it was so hard on him. Like the deposit
[00:56:43] kic lawyers are so brutal. They would
[00:56:47] gaslight these victims saying things
[00:56:48] like, "Are you sure you're not just
[00:56:50] depressed and struggling because your
[00:56:52] parents have a bad marriage? Are you
[00:56:53] sure it just wasn't an early homosexual
[00:56:55] experience and you're gay?" They're
[00:56:57] like, "No, pretty sure it was the child
[00:56:59] rape, so I'm not doing great." like
[00:57:01] [laughter]
[00:57:02] they would try to pin it on anything but
[00:57:04] Kanuk's negligence and Pete Newman uh as
[00:57:07] the reason for the civil litigation. So
[00:57:11] then they put him under an NDA and I
[00:57:15] just saw that NDA for the first time
[00:57:18] after we passed Trey's law in Texas
[00:57:21] in September
[00:57:22] >> when Oh man, dude
[00:57:25] >> 2025. And now I know why they were so
[00:57:27] >> Daid him after the abuse.
[00:57:30] >> All of these victims. Yeah, except one
[00:57:32] family refused to sign the NDA. Canut
[00:57:34] came after them, federally sanctioned
[00:57:36] them because they refused to sign the
[00:57:38] NDA.
[00:57:39] >> What do you mean federally sanctioned?
[00:57:41] What does that even mean?
[00:57:42] >> That means that their case was filed in
[00:57:45] uh Texas, Kanaken, Missouri, right? So,
[00:57:48] [snorts] um at that point, like even
[00:57:51] though the case was filed in Texas, it
[00:57:52] it got pulled to a different
[00:57:54] jurisdiction
[00:57:56] and uh the case was federal. So then the
[00:58:00] judge uh ruled in that court that uh the
[00:58:04] case was closed. The settlement
[00:58:06] agreement had been signed. They can't
[00:58:07] come back for more now and add an NDA in
[00:58:09] there. But they had every intent of
[00:58:11] forcing that family to sign an NDA.
[00:58:14] And that family did not. They're the
[00:58:16] allcons. It's been public since then. Um
[00:58:19] Ashton Aleron um he calls me sis. We're
[00:58:23] really close. He serves our country.
[00:58:25] He's in Japan right now. Um, amazing
[00:58:28] kid, now man, just got married. Um, and
[00:58:33] he told his dad, "I want to be able to
[00:58:35] tell my story one day."
[00:58:37] And so they had to fight. Even their own
[00:58:39] lawyer,
[00:58:41] their own lawyer was pushing this NDA on
[00:58:43] them. It's standard practice. And we can
[00:58:45] get into all that cuz that's like how I
[00:58:47] uh
[00:58:48] >> their own lawyer.
[00:58:49] >> Yeah. It's very
[00:58:50] >> heard the family's attorney was wanted
[00:58:52] them to sign the [ __ ] NDA.
[00:58:54] >> Yeah. saying that they'll never talk
[00:58:56] about how their kid was [ __ ] sexually
[00:58:58] molested and raped.
[00:58:59] >> Yeah. And what's even sicker is that um
[00:59:02] >> by a [ __ ] church.
[00:59:04] >> Yeah. Oh, and to that point,
[00:59:05] >> who the [ __ ] is that attorney?
[00:59:07] >> It's all of them.
[00:59:09] >> All of them.
[00:59:09] >> This is This is standard practice in
[00:59:11] personal injury law.
[00:59:13] Now, I
[00:59:14] >> Who the [ __ ] are these people? These are
[00:59:16] [ __ ] kids.
[00:59:17] >> These are kids. Kids should never be put
[00:59:19] under a contract. They can't consent to
[00:59:21] contracts as minors.
[00:59:22] >> So, hold on. Just let me replay this. So
[00:59:25] this [ __ ] Pete Newman gets arrested.
[00:59:28] >> Yeah.
[00:59:29] >> Then more of these people start falling.
[00:59:32] Then they reach out to all the victims
[00:59:34] and they [ __ ] try to make it sound
[00:59:36] like it was some other event that [ __ ]
[00:59:38] them up in the head. M and then they
[00:59:41] [ __ ] convince him to sign an NDA
[00:59:43] saying that they'll never talk about how
[00:59:45] Pete Newman or anybody else at Camp
[00:59:48] Canook was playing with their [ __ ]
[00:59:50] penis or their vagina or shoving [ __ ] up
[00:59:53] their [ __ ] or [ __ ] dancing with
[00:59:56] them naked or playing basketball with
[00:59:58] them naked or [ __ ] putting them in
[01:00:00] Chinese massage parlors to give them an
[01:00:03] erection so they can [ __ ] film it.
[01:00:05] They they and and the defense attorney
[01:00:07] is having them having their [ __ ]
[01:00:10] client sign this [ __ ]
[01:00:12] >> Thanks for saying that so I didn't have
[01:00:14] to.
[01:00:14] >> What the [ __ ]
[01:00:16] >> Yeah.
[01:00:17] >> In the Where's the [ __ ] FBI?
[01:00:19] >> Where's the FBI?
[01:00:20] >> Oh, the FBI is doing what they always
[01:00:21] do.
[01:00:22] >> Yeah.
[01:00:22] >> Abso fuckingutely nothing.
[01:00:24] >> We can circle back to that. They entered
[01:00:26] the chat a couple years back.
[01:00:28] >> Of course they always [ __ ] late to
[01:00:30] the party. [laughter]
[01:00:31] >> Yeah. uh like uh 12 years too late. But
[01:00:36] um so yeah, that's exactly right. So
[01:00:38] I've spent a lot of time now educating
[01:00:40] plaintiffs attorneys on why they
[01:00:42] shouldn't silence their own clients. But
[01:00:44] that's how widely accepted this is
[01:00:46] considered a best practice. You settle,
[01:00:48] you sign an NDA, and everyone moves on.
[01:00:51] Well, guess who doesn't move on? The kid
[01:00:53] who cannot heal because they have been
[01:00:56] legally silenced by a Christian. the kid
[01:00:58] who's who's having dreams every night of
[01:01:02] Pete [ __ ] Newman jacking them off
[01:01:05] >> or Lee Bradberry or Corby Dale Grimes or
[01:01:08] Chuck Price or uh Paul Green or Paul
[01:01:13] Kerr or I mean the list goes on and on.
[01:01:17] There are So some of these guys were
[01:01:19] abused twice. Once by Pete Newman and
[01:01:21] then again by another one.
[01:01:23] >> And this [ __ ] is legal. This [ __ ] is
[01:01:26] legal. You You can
[01:01:28] How the [ __ ] can a kid sign a document
[01:01:31] anyways? It's this what?
[01:01:34] >> So, there's an active fraud lawsuit with
[01:01:37] the plaintiff who's a kid in
[01:01:38] Hendersonville, Tennessee, just down the
[01:01:39] road here. And his he was 17 when he
[01:01:43] settled. His parents of the Guardians
[01:01:45] signed the settlement agreement. They
[01:01:48] own an aed hardware store. Like, they're
[01:01:50] not sophisticated on legal nuance,
[01:01:52] right? So these NDAs, they get snuck in
[01:01:55] at the midnight hour. It's under the
[01:01:57] guise of a confidentiality clause. And
[01:01:59] you're thinking, well, I want this to be
[01:02:01] confidential because we don't want to
[01:02:03] talk about it. And the kid doesn't
[01:02:05] really know what he's signing. He's not
[01:02:06] even signing it. It's his parents. So
[01:02:08] this victim was told he would have to
[01:02:10] sue his parents to get out of the NDA.
[01:02:14] And so what I mean
[01:02:18] what what
[01:02:20] Never mind. I mean, I want to say like
[01:02:22] what judge, what attorney is going to
[01:02:25] prosecute a [ __ ] human being for
[01:02:27] talking about how they were sexually
[01:02:29] molested and [ __ ] raped as a child?
[01:02:32] But
[01:02:33] >> well,
[01:02:34] >> this is the world we live in. There's
[01:02:36] lots of attorneys that would love to do
[01:02:37] that.
[01:02:38] >> I started talking about it and
[01:02:39] >> there's people that are standing up and
[01:02:40] trying to call these people minor what?
[01:02:43] Minor attractive minor attractive
[01:02:45] persons.
[01:02:45] >> Don't get me started.
[01:02:46] >> Minor attractive persons. We Let's not
[01:02:48] [ __ ] with them. They're a protected
[01:02:50] class.
[01:02:52] They are. It's not funny. It's [ __ ]
[01:02:54] real.
[01:02:54] >> I I laugh because it's so ridiculous.
[01:02:57] I It's just like, yeah. So, um,
[01:03:01] >> you know what's [ __ ] crazy? How many
[01:03:03] people are in DC? How many Americans are
[01:03:06] there? 3 [ __ ] 40 million Americans.
[01:03:09] There's like 200 people running the
[01:03:11] [ __ ] show.
[01:03:15] Do the math.
[01:03:16] >> And where are their priorities?
[01:03:20] We [ __ ] know where their priorities
[01:03:21] are. You see any Epstein files yet?
[01:03:24] >> Exactly.
[01:03:25] >> Me neither.
[01:03:27] >> I connected with Nick Bryant a while
[01:03:29] back on I was trying to figure out if
[01:03:31] the can Yeah. if the Canak network
[01:03:33] connected to what he'd uncovered and um
[01:03:36] he wanted to have me on his podcast. At
[01:03:38] that point I was too uh scared. I was
[01:03:41] getting cringshaw by Kanek. They would
[01:03:44] send me cease and desist letters, demand
[01:03:46] letters.
[01:03:47] >> Getting what? Cringshaw.
[01:03:49] >> Oh,
[01:03:51] reference to my situation. Yeah, that
[01:03:54] didn't work.
[01:03:54] >> Case and desist letters. It didn't work
[01:03:56] on me either. Uh I took him to the press
[01:03:58] and uh yeah, I have it here, too. Um I
[01:04:04] framed it. [laughter]
[01:04:06] This is what Canucks lawyer sent me
[01:04:09] first. I'm not under an NDA. My brother,
[01:04:11] my dead brother is under an NDA.
[01:04:16] And this is what uh so I set up No More
[01:04:20] Victims after getting into this
[01:04:22] Operation Millstone and um
[01:04:26] No More Victims uh started putting
[01:04:29] together a website called Facts About
[01:04:31] Canak and we got the deposition tapes
[01:04:35] from the John Doe One case because I was
[01:04:36] the only one not under NDA
[01:04:39] and we put all this information up on
[01:04:41] facts about.com.
[01:04:43] We have receipts on all of it. And then
[01:04:46] Kanek immediately, they don't like it.
[01:04:49] They send this letter
[01:04:52] and it's laughable because first of all,
[01:04:55] they think I'm a law firm and they
[01:04:58] threaten to disbar me in the state of
[01:04:59] Pennsylvania for this website that's
[01:05:02] soliciting clients.
[01:05:05] Like, nope. Just
[01:05:06] >> defamation.
[01:05:07] >> Yeah.
[01:05:09] Just trying to get the truth out to the
[01:05:11] public so kids stop getting raped on
[01:05:12] your watch.
[01:05:15] >> Where's the where do where do I read?
[01:05:17] >> Oh, if you want to look at like their 12
[01:05:19] points of what they want.
[01:05:20] >> Where's the threat?
[01:05:22] >> The dear
[01:05:28] behind that title page there, it's like
[01:05:30] 12 things they want taken off the
[01:05:32] website.
[01:05:35] One of them is that you called Joe
[01:05:38] White's father Skip White. His name is
[01:05:40] Spike White. And my attorneys are like,
[01:05:41] "Well, that's not defamation. That's
[01:05:43] called a typo." They also had a
[01:05:45] correction in there. Corby Dale Grimes
[01:05:47] isn't in prison in Florida. He's in
[01:05:49] prison in Texas. And we're like, "Thanks
[01:05:51] for that. We were trying to run down
[01:05:53] where he was in prison." Like just
[01:05:55] stupid things that they wanted
[01:05:57] corrected. So, I sent this to the media
[01:06:00] and they published it. And um
[01:06:04] >> do you mind if we scan this and put it
[01:06:06] up? We'll have everybody download it.
[01:06:08] >> It's public.
[01:06:08] >> This is uh Camp Canakook trying to
[01:06:12] silence Elizabeth so that um the word
[01:06:15] doesn't get out that they're a bunch of
[01:06:17] pedos.
[01:06:18] >> Mhm.
[01:06:18] >> Sexually abusing.
[01:06:20] >> So that was the first one.
[01:06:22] >> Um there have been other other threats
[01:06:25] and things since, but um I didn't have
[01:06:28] >> threats. Oh. Um, so
[01:06:32] >> to you.
[01:06:33] >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, let me know whoever's
[01:06:36] behind Facts about Kanek. I'll take them
[01:06:38] out.
[01:06:40] Um, being sent to the facts about Kanek
[01:06:43] email address where Kanek's posing as
[01:06:46] victims to try like, you know, fishing
[01:06:48] to see what we'll react to or if we'll
[01:06:50] put something up on our website that's
[01:06:51] not vetted. [snorts]
[01:06:53] I have great PIs and lawyers who vet
[01:06:55] these things before we put them up
[01:06:57] anywhere. Um, we Yeah. Then we got uh I
[01:07:01] got a call from a lobbyist in DC that
[01:07:03] Kanek tried to hire his firm to uh
[01:07:08] there's like three or four things they
[01:07:10] wanted uh to pop up a dark money C4 and
[01:07:14] oppose Elizabeth Phillips bills in Texas
[01:07:16] and Missouri.
[01:07:17] >> Got to go to DC to get that stuff done,
[01:07:19] don't you? [laughter]
[01:07:21] >> Then
[01:07:22] >> it's funny how it's real. It's [ __ ]
[01:07:24] real. Well, and I'm laughing because
[01:07:25] this totally backfired on them because
[01:07:27] that DC lobbyist actually cares about
[01:07:29] kids and he immediately got in touch
[01:07:32] with me and was like, "They're trying to
[01:07:33] character assassinate you, oppose your
[01:07:35] campaigns." Well, and I was like, "Well,
[01:07:37] thanks. I'll let my security team know."
[01:07:39] Because that was not. So, then there was
[01:07:42] another lobbyist they went after. It got
[01:07:43] right back to me again. And all these
[01:07:46] guys are like, "We don't want to work
[01:07:47] with them. We want to work with you."
[01:07:48] I'm like, "Cool. Come on. Join the good,
[01:07:50] you know, get out of the get out of
[01:07:52] there. come join the good side.
[01:07:55] >> Um, and I work with different lobbyists
[01:07:58] in different jurisdictions and they do
[01:08:01] this because they're passionate about
[01:08:02] it. A lot of them pro bono do this and
[01:08:04] they reject business from uh, pedophile
[01:08:08] rings.
[01:08:08] >> That's the first positive thing you've
[01:08:10] said I'll interview.
[01:08:11] >> I I do have some hope. I do. Yeah. I
[01:08:14] hope to bring a little bit of hope to
[01:08:15] this conversation as we get through it
[01:08:17] all.
[01:08:18] >> Could we take a little break? I'm so
[01:08:20] pissed off right now. I'm shaking.
[01:08:21] >> Let's go. Cool.
[01:08:23] Let's take a quick 5 minutes.
[01:08:24] >> Sounds good.
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[01:10:53] All right, Elizabeth, we're back from
[01:10:55] the break. Talked about a whole bunch of
[01:10:57] stuff on the break, but um I'm really
[01:11:00] interested, you know, when you guys you
[01:11:02] informed the FBI that you're coming on
[01:11:04] the show and you asked them, "Hey, is
[01:11:06] there anything you don't want us to talk
[01:11:08] about?" cuz we don't want to interfere
[01:11:10] in your investigations
[01:11:12] with Canak Cookook. And what was their
[01:11:15] reply?
[01:11:17] >> So,
[01:11:18] let's go back to 2023 when I first
[01:11:20] talked to them. I think that's important
[01:11:23] context. So, as I said earlier, the FBI
[01:11:26] should have been involved in this from
[01:11:27] the beginning. And when I took this
[01:11:29] story to the media, the head of the law
[01:11:32] center for the National Center on Sexual
[01:11:33] Exploitation said the FBI should be so
[01:11:37] on top of this. It's just screaming FBI.
[01:11:39] And even that guy I mentioned who told
[01:11:43] Pete Newman, I'll have the FBI on your
[01:11:44] doorstep in the morning. And instead he
[01:11:45] turned himself into the Teny County
[01:11:46] Sheriff's Department. Everyone's like,
[01:11:48] FBI, this is a it's interstate
[01:11:50] trafficking of children. And uh so we
[01:11:53] get to a point where we have so much
[01:11:55] information from the private
[01:11:56] investigation I'm leading with my
[01:11:58] colleagues
[01:12:00] uh that we start sending information to
[01:12:03] appropriate law enforcement agencies.
[01:12:07] We start with the IRS. So, Canak got IRS
[01:12:11] church status in 2015. I mentioned they
[01:12:14] restructured in 2003 and then they uh
[01:12:16] they were a for-profit then they became
[01:12:18] a nonprofit.
[01:12:19] >> You you had mentioned you
[01:12:21] >> and that's a way to shield assets.
[01:12:23] >> Okay.
[01:12:24] >> Um and then to um it al there's a whole
[01:12:28] re lot of reasons that they would do
[01:12:30] that with what we now know they knew.
[01:12:32] >> Okay. Um,
[01:12:33] >> I mean, Nathan Afflelet kind of broke
[01:12:36] down why you would want to go nonprofit.
[01:12:38] >> Yeah.
[01:12:39] >> During his interview about the religion
[01:12:41] business.
[01:12:42] >> Yeah. Well, and thanks to your producer,
[01:12:44] Jeremy, I've been in touch with those
[01:12:45] guys and we're going to do some work
[01:12:47] together.
[01:12:47] >> I can't wait to see what you guys do.
[01:12:49] [laughter]
[01:12:50] >> It's going to be Yeah, it's going to
[01:12:51] piss off a lot of pedophiles. I'm
[01:12:53] excited about it. So, um, the IRS is
[01:12:57] involved uh in 2023. They start their
[01:13:00] investigation that spring. A couple
[01:13:02] months into that, they're like, "It's
[01:13:02] time to bring in the FBI." I'm like,
[01:13:04] "Oh, good. They're on it." And I just
[01:13:08] gotten up to where my dad has a beach
[01:13:10] house, and they said, "Can you be in
[01:13:12] Springfield, Missouri on Monday?" I was
[01:13:14] like, "I cannot. I'm not getting off
[01:13:15] this island. I just got on this island,
[01:13:16] but I'll do a Zoom call." And so, I did
[01:13:18] a Zoom call with the lead uh criminal
[01:13:21] investigator for the IRS in that central
[01:13:24] region. and he brought in the sack agent
[01:13:26] and another agent who like leads the
[01:13:28] task force on child exploitation in
[01:13:30] somewhere in Missouri. They're blacked
[01:13:33] out cuz they're on location somewhere.
[01:13:34] They can't show where they are. And uh
[01:13:37] but I can see the IRS agent and he's
[01:13:40] fired up. Like he sees this for what it
[01:13:41] is. And uh I go through a presentation.
[01:13:46] I have it right here. This is what I
[01:13:47] presented to law enforcement.
[01:13:50] I had like two allnighters to pull this
[01:13:52] together because I was not in town. It's
[01:13:54] uh I had my right-hand woman was on
[01:13:56] maternity leave and her deputy was
[01:13:59] helping me scramble to put something
[01:14:00] together. We uh organized all this
[01:14:03] information we'd been digging up for
[01:14:05] years at this point, like 3 years worth
[01:14:08] of tips and just uh pulling numbers
[01:14:11] where we could claims Canak had made.
[01:14:14] And um so I went through this deck and I
[01:14:17] get through the page about their money
[01:14:20] and private endurement and uh the IRS
[01:14:23] agent goes, "Well, where'd you get these
[01:14:25] numbers?" And I was like, "Oh, we just
[01:14:26] pulled this from their 990 forms." So
[01:14:28] 990 forms are what you send to the IRS
[01:14:31] if you're a nonprofit. You don't have to
[01:14:33] do 990 forms if you're a church. Uh so
[01:14:36] their their transparency has gotten less
[01:14:38] and less as since 2015 when they became
[01:14:40] a church. But we were able to dig up
[01:14:42] what we could through the 990s and we
[01:14:44] were able to trace 380 million in gross
[01:14:46] revenue to this camp in southwest
[01:14:49] Missouri.
[01:14:50] >> Wow.
[01:14:50] >> And then we calculated that net that out
[01:14:52] 25% was leaving the country and going to
[01:14:54] failed states like Haiti.
[01:14:56] >> 25% was leaving the country.
[01:14:58] >> Yeah. Yeah. So you got Kanek who's
[01:15:00] soliciting donations. They have revenue
[01:15:02] from their summer camps, right? I
[01:15:03] mentioned it's very expensive to go
[01:15:04] there. Thousands of dollars a week to go
[01:15:06] to Kanek.
[01:15:08] So they have earned revenue, but then
[01:15:10] they also fundra for the poor children
[01:15:12] in Haiti. And Joe White does his whole
[01:15:14] thing about this. And how
[01:15:16] >> how can they charge for the camp if it's
[01:15:18] a nonprofit?
[01:15:20] >> Oh, it's not unusual. It's a faith-based
[01:15:22] camp and they charge per term um to for
[01:15:26] their service. So that's not unusual. Um
[01:15:30] there are a lot of for-profit camps,
[01:15:32] too, like Camp Mystic, which we'll talk
[01:15:34] about in a little bit. But um Kanek was
[01:15:36] a for-profit camp. Then they became a
[01:15:38] nonprofit camp. Then they became a
[01:15:40] church nonprofit, which is a different
[01:15:42] tax status.
[01:15:43] >> M
[01:15:44] >> um so anyways, the IRS is looking into
[01:15:47] this. They're like, you know, this is
[01:15:52] the the numbers in their bank accounts.
[01:15:54] When they said, where'd you get these
[01:15:55] numbers? I said90 forms. They go, well,
[01:15:57] you should see their bank accounts,
[01:15:59] which tells me it's a lot more than what
[01:16:02] I know. And uh and then I showed them
[01:16:05] the money trick. Follow the money,
[01:16:07] right? Follow the money to Haiti.
[01:16:10] They were funneling money to and this is
[01:16:14] I'm telling the FBI this. I'm you know
[01:16:16] the IRS has brought them in. It's like
[01:16:18] not like out of the blue. I'm cold
[01:16:20] calling the FBI on this. There's an
[01:16:22] active investigation, right? And so they
[01:16:25] bring these guys in and I'm like, "Yeah,
[01:16:27] so we have at this point
[01:16:30] here's a chart of all their entities. I
[01:16:32] mean, there's so many of them.
[01:16:35] >> You broke down the entire organization.
[01:16:36] >> Broke down the entire organization. We
[01:16:40] Oh, we found that the White family
[01:16:41] earned 11.7 million in revenue from
[01:16:44] Canak Ministries personally between 2006
[01:16:47] to 2020. 9.1 million of that rental
[01:16:51] income to the Whites for-profit holding
[01:16:53] companies that they don't pay taxes on.
[01:16:55] They got the county to uh alleviate
[01:16:57] their taxes even though they're
[01:16:59] for-profit.
[01:17:00] Um 2.6 6 million in compensation to Joe
[01:17:03] and Debbie Joe White between 2006 and
[01:17:06] 2020. Um, so you know, I started with
[01:17:10] the numbers because this is an IRS angle
[01:17:12] and from my experience working with uh
[01:17:15] the anti-trafficking nonprofit I
[01:17:16] mentioned earlier. um she got rescu she
[01:17:21] and her other friend got rescued because
[01:17:24] the IRS got their pimp on um money
[01:17:28] laundering and tax evasion, not on sex
[01:17:31] trafficking. So that's often times how
[01:17:32] these trafficking rings get busted up.
[01:17:35] It's because the follow the money, not
[01:17:37] the crime itself.
[01:17:38] >> So that's how I knew to like go this
[01:17:40] angle, right? Um here it is when Rick
[01:17:43] Rashler becomes the director of risk
[01:17:45] management in 2003.
[01:17:48] They had a 4,000% increase in their
[01:17:50] insurance coverage.
[01:17:52] They knew what was coming. Um,
[01:17:56] this is a whole timeline of
[01:18:00] Okay. So, known abusers at this time.
[01:18:01] One, two, three. This is where it
[01:18:02] becomes FBI is like the known abuser
[01:18:04] list I mentioned earlier.
[01:18:05] >> Mhm.
[01:18:06] >> At that time, we knew of 11 convicted.
[01:18:10] >> 11 convicted.
[01:18:12] >> Yeah. Um, and these are all their
[01:18:15] charges.
[01:18:18] So I'm showing this to the FBI. Have
[01:18:20] >> you had I mean can have you been in
[01:18:22] touch with the insurance company?
[01:18:25] >> Um so they were actually at one point
[01:18:28] added as um to the complaint in these
[01:18:31] fraud cases for civil conspiracy. The
[01:18:34] insurance company colluded with Kanekuck
[01:18:36] to cover this up. So they've been named
[01:18:38] in these lawsuits.
[01:18:39] >> [ __ ] man. Everybody's in on this.
[01:18:41] >> Yeah. No, we need to deep dive on
[01:18:43] insurance because that's really the root
[01:18:44] of the this is we live in a capitalist
[01:18:47] society. I don't know of a better one,
[01:18:50] right? Like it's not communism, it's not
[01:18:52] socialism, but this is the dark side of
[01:18:55] capitalism. And I'll get into that if
[01:18:56] you want, but this um because insurance
[01:18:59] is involved and incentives are
[01:19:01] misaligned. And that's why kids keep
[01:19:03] getting raped in institutional settings
[01:19:04] because they go with what insurance will
[01:19:06] cover and insurance will drop their
[01:19:08] coverage if uh in certain cases when and
[01:19:11] that's what was threatened here in this
[01:19:12] situation with Kanek. So the FBI sees
[01:19:15] this, they see the numbers. Then we get
[01:19:17] into Kanek, Haiti.
[01:19:20] Um and this is really disturbing,
[01:19:23] but they're like, "Yeah, this is uh
[01:19:27] Thank you."
[01:19:28] Um, they're like, "This looks like an
[01:19:30] organized crime ring.
[01:19:34] >> Send us your 10. How many victims do you
[01:19:36] know?" I'm like, "Hundreds. I have to
[01:19:38] go. I don't even know the number at this
[01:19:39] point." Like thousands of tips. Hundreds
[01:19:42] of victims. Uh, at this point maybe like
[01:19:45] 50 something known per on our end and uh
[01:19:48] only those that were convicted on that
[01:19:50] slide. But um when you start following
[01:19:53] the money, I mentioned all that money,
[01:19:54] millions of dollars going to Haiti and
[01:19:56] other countries. But the Haiti situation
[01:19:59] is particularly disturbing because uh
[01:20:03] Joe White always flew private and his
[01:20:06] private plane pilot was convicted of
[01:20:09] sodomizing his 5-year-old daughter. This
[01:20:12] was who's flying Joe White around to
[01:20:14] Haiti.
[01:20:15] >> Was convicted of sodomizing his
[01:20:17] daughter.
[01:20:18] >> Yeah.
[01:20:19] And then did
[01:20:20] >> Joe White know this?
[01:20:21] >> Yes. Joe White testified in his trial as
[01:20:25] someone who would let his grandchildren
[01:20:27] be around this man as a character
[01:20:29] witness. He was a character witness for
[01:20:31] this guy who had sodomized his own child
[01:20:36] and then let him stay on camp property
[01:20:37] while awaiting trial.
[01:20:40] >> Holy [ __ ]
[01:20:41] >> Okay, so that I'm just painting the
[01:20:42] picture here. You've got a pedophile
[01:20:44] pilot flying around pedophile Pete
[01:20:46] Newman. Here he is in a Santa costume in
[01:20:48] Canut. I mean in Haiti with Canut Haiti.
[01:20:55] So pedophile Pete with pedophile pilot
[01:20:57] and Joe White.
[01:20:58] >> [ __ ]
[01:21:00] This is This is
[01:21:05] >> So we know of Haiti victims. We know of
[01:21:07] victims victims from Hawaii to Haiti and
[01:21:11] who knows where else. All over the
[01:21:12] world. Um but here's where it gets
[01:21:15] really concerning. Look at this [ __ ]
[01:21:16] dude.
[01:21:26] In the name of Jesus.
[01:21:32] So
[01:21:33] Canada Haiti was founded by Joe White in
[01:21:36] 1991.
[01:21:38] And I remember when I was at camp, the
[01:21:41] end of every session, they'd throw
[01:21:42] around like a tithing basket and you're
[01:21:45] supposed to like fund Canak Haiti or you
[01:21:47] could sign a baseball to fund a cabin of
[01:21:49] the poor children at Kids Cross America
[01:21:51] next door instead of scholar shipping
[01:21:53] them into the mainstream camps. It's
[01:21:55] like, oh no, the poor kids have to go
[01:21:57] over here. So you
[01:21:59] >> like I know we're like this is way off
[01:22:01] subject.
[01:22:02] >> You're a Christian. How the [ __ ] is this
[01:22:04] allowed to happen?
[01:22:06] >> Where's the retribution? Like where is
[01:22:08] Christ and when the [ __ ] is he going to
[01:22:10] step in? This [ __ ] is happening all over
[01:22:13] the [ __ ] world in every community in
[01:22:18] it's [ __ ] everywhere. And now they're
[01:22:20] using they're you they I mean not now
[01:22:23] it's been in the Catholic church. It's
[01:22:24] been in all the churches forever. But
[01:22:26] it's like they're using his name to get
[01:22:30] to us to to the kids.
[01:22:33] >> It's not my
[01:22:34] >> What the [ __ ] is going on?
[01:22:36] >> So,
[01:22:37] >> and why why is why why is God allowing
[01:22:40] this [ __ ] to happen?
[01:22:42] >> Where is he?
[01:22:44] >> When we go back to
[01:22:45] >> and none of these people are getting
[01:22:47] [ __ ] caught. They're just going back
[01:22:48] or they go to prison for a little bit
[01:22:50] and then they come back out and they do
[01:22:51] it again and they [ __ ]
[01:22:52] [clears throat] do it again.
[01:22:54] >> I want to talk about that. I want to
[01:22:55] talk about when my brother Trey was
[01:22:58] really struggling, how it and then died,
[01:23:00] destroyed my faith because I'm like,
[01:23:03] where were you God? Where are you? Why
[01:23:07] are you letting this happen?
[01:23:09] Um, all valid questions, big part of my
[01:23:12] spiritual journey. Um,
[01:23:15] and here's the thing. I I read something
[01:23:19] by a theologian who studies
[01:23:20] institutional sin. So this is, you know,
[01:23:23] Catholic Church, USA gymnastics, like
[01:23:27] these institutions
[01:23:28] are a part of the problem, right? It's
[01:23:31] especially atrocious when it's in the
[01:23:33] name of Jesus. Um, but he wrote an
[01:23:36] article, it was targeted towards the
[01:23:37] SBC, the Southern Baptist Convention.
[01:23:40] Huge pedophile problem. They don't want
[01:23:43] to do anything about. It's all lip
[01:23:45] service. No real substantive reform in
[01:23:48] the Southern Baptist Convention. And so
[01:23:51] he was targeting his article towards
[01:23:53] that. And I this really stuck out to me.
[01:23:55] He said, "Idols demand sacrifice."
[01:23:59] >> Like Mullik, you know, it's like
[01:24:01] >> we just covered this with Dr. Dan
[01:24:03] Schneider.
[01:24:04] >> Is he a priest or something?
[01:24:06] >> He is a uh I he's a PhD, but um in
[01:24:11] something with Catholicism and we went
[01:24:13] over all these old gods and false gods.
[01:24:16] So
[01:24:18] if you look at this issue through the
[01:24:21] lens of institutional sin which a lot of
[01:24:23] the church wants to ignore that
[01:24:24] institutional sins there it's a lot
[01:24:26] about personal sin right in most
[01:24:30] mainstream evangelical theology and
[01:24:32] we've ignored this concept of
[01:24:34] institutional sin but because of how
[01:24:36] incentives are aligned towards um
[01:24:40] insurance right and uh you know
[01:24:43] fundraising money as part of it um it's
[01:24:48] created idols. People idolize Joe White.
[01:24:50] People idolize Canak. People idolize
[01:24:53] Camp Mystic. People idolize their mega
[01:24:55] church. You name it. And when you have
[01:24:58] an idol, idols demand sacrifice.
[01:25:02] And our children are being sacrificed on
[01:25:04] the altar to these idols.
[01:25:08] >> You think that's what it is? What do you
[01:25:10] What do you think?
[01:25:11] >> Child rape is a is just a casualty of
[01:25:14] business.
[01:25:17] >> Are you saying you don't think this is
[01:25:18] for pleasure?
[01:25:22] >> Well, at the pedophile level, it is
[01:25:25] >> at the Joe White level.
[01:25:26] >> Yeah. Uh I mean, I think there's only a
[01:25:29] couple conclusions to draw there. Like,
[01:25:31] I think uh people who empathize more
[01:25:33] with pedophiles than children have a
[01:25:36] problem.
[01:25:38] You're letting this guy stay on your
[01:25:40] camp property while awaiting trial when
[01:25:42] this has just happened to his daughter.
[01:25:46] Like
[01:25:48] the dude's not right. He's still running
[01:25:51] this camp. He's still stewarding
[01:25:52] thousands of kids per summer on his
[01:25:55] properties and making [ __ ] ton of money.
[01:25:58] And
[01:26:00] yeah, I mean, I'm sure you've heard this
[01:26:02] before, but the love of money is the
[01:26:03] root of all evil.
[01:26:06] So, not everyone's as uh complicit as
[01:26:09] Joe White. You know, there are some SBC
[01:26:12] leaders who um are not pedophiles, but
[01:26:16] they're not doing anything about the
[01:26:17] pedophile problem. Why is that? The
[01:26:20] institution above all else. So, then you
[01:26:23] have children being raped, people being
[01:26:26] hurt. Well, that's the cost of doing
[01:26:28] business because we're saving so many
[01:26:29] souls.
[01:26:31] And I've had this conversation with a
[01:26:34] lot of people Um, a lot of survivors in
[01:26:37] fact,
[01:26:38] >> like where is that calculus in
[01:26:40] scripture?
[01:26:40] >> Yeah.
[01:26:41] >> Souls saved outweighs children raped.
[01:26:44] >> Yeah.
[01:26:44] >> But that's Kanek's messaging is, well,
[01:26:46] whoops. We had a few bad actors who
[01:26:49] infiltrated our ministry, but look at
[01:26:51] all the souls we've saved. Like, that's
[01:26:53] not my Jesus.
[01:26:55] >> And And we're saying there's potentially
[01:26:58] thousands.
[01:26:59] >> There's definitely thousands.
[01:27:01] >> There's definitely thousands.
[01:27:03] >> Yeah. So, you know, only one in seven
[01:27:06] child sexual abuse victims uh ever come
[01:27:08] forward.
[01:27:11] So, that's like
[01:27:14] uh a conservative calculation.
[01:27:17] If we know if the prosecutor on this is
[01:27:19] just Pete Newman, remember one serial
[01:27:22] perpetrator
[01:27:24] 55 victims known at the time of his
[01:27:26] sentencing. Prosecutor estimating a true
[01:27:28] count in the hundreds.
[01:27:30] But, you know, 55 victims came forward
[01:27:32] in the criminal trial. I know of over
[01:27:37] 205 in our database right now, like Pete
[01:27:40] Newman related, and then way more beyond
[01:27:42] that.
[01:27:42] >> One in seven.
[01:27:44] >> Yeah. So, then times that by seven,
[01:27:46] >> it's like 350, right?
[01:27:48] >> Well, if we're talking 205 Newman
[01:27:51] victims in our database that have come
[01:27:53] forward so far, times seven.
[01:27:55] >> Oh, 200. Holy [ __ ]
[01:27:57] >> And that's Pete Newman.
[01:27:59] That's just one.
[01:28:03] And how many are there?
[01:28:05] >> Over 70.
[01:28:11] So when you start following the money
[01:28:13] and seeing their goal is to continue
[01:28:17] making this camp a cash cow because it's
[01:28:19] serving Joe White, you just heard me say
[01:28:20] like they've made 11.7 million in that
[01:28:23] period of time personally, the White
[01:28:24] family through their church camp.
[01:28:28] um that's that's where their heart lies.
[01:28:32] That's what they're pursuing. And it's
[01:28:34] in the name of souls saved, but at what
[01:28:36] cost, right? So then they have this
[01:28:38] thing called Kanica Katy that Joe White
[01:28:40] started in 1991.
[01:28:43] Um and then they partnered with an
[01:28:44] organization called Cross International.
[01:28:47] And Cross International was also called
[01:28:50] Cross Catholic Outreach. So there's a
[01:28:53] Catholic side to it. And then the
[01:28:55] evangelical side, guy named Jim
[01:28:57] Kavanaaugh was doing cross Catholic
[01:28:59] outreach. Joe White and him partnered
[01:29:02] up. So it's like, you know, Kavar does
[01:29:04] the Catholic side, he does the
[01:29:06] non-denominational side of fundraising.
[01:29:09] Cross International is 1.3 billion in
[01:29:12] general contributions. It's the 39th
[01:29:14] largest nonprofit in the US and no one's
[01:29:16] ever heard of it. Like I've been in
[01:29:18] philanthropy for 12 years. I've never
[01:29:20] heard of Carlson International.
[01:29:23] And then like 1.2 billion of their
[01:29:26] annual uh contributions are inind
[01:29:30] donations and medical supplies. But then
[01:29:32] when you talk to people who have flown
[01:29:34] to Haiti with Joe White or gone on these
[01:29:36] Canuck Haiti trips and I've obviously
[01:29:38] talked to a lot of them at this point,
[01:29:40] they're like, "We were handing out
[01:29:41] ziplockc bags with like candy and
[01:29:43] toothbrushes." I'm like, "That's not
[01:29:44] $1.3 million worth of medical supplies."
[01:29:48] They're like, "No."
[01:29:48] >> What are they doing with the medical
[01:29:50] supplies? Are there even medical
[01:29:52] supplies?
[01:29:52] >> Or are they [ __ ] selling them? Like,
[01:29:54] what would it
[01:29:55] >> I don't even know if they exist. I mean,
[01:29:56] so now the claim is that they are the
[01:30:00] primary source of funding for over 6,000
[01:30:02] kids in Haiti who would starve to death
[01:30:03] if not for Joe White. And they go on
[01:30:06] these mission trips and Cross
[01:30:08] International uh they would give some of
[01:30:10] this money I was mentioning to Cross
[01:30:12] International as a pass through, but
[01:30:13] then some of it like to the tune of 6
[01:30:15] million just directly wired to Haiti or
[01:30:17] sorry, sent by check according to their
[01:30:18] 9 form. They're sending checks to Haiti
[01:30:21] to these divine shelter schools. So I
[01:30:24] sent some people to get ground truth on
[01:30:27] this whole thing. And at first they were
[01:30:29] like, "Well, few of these schools they
[01:30:31] mention serving don't exist. There's not
[01:30:33] even roads to get there."
[01:30:35] >> Huh. This sounds like Minnesota.
[01:30:37] [laughter]
[01:30:39] >> Yeah. [snorts]
[01:30:40] And then we uh kept
[01:30:43] >> Except it's Haiti, which is weird that
[01:30:46] Yeah. Not that different.
[01:30:48] >> Yeah.
[01:30:50] And but this is um an American ministry
[01:30:54] church sending millions of dollars to
[01:30:58] Haiti to feed the children. And on their
[01:31:00] website that they just refreshed. It's
[01:31:02] not like we're going off of historical
[01:31:04] information. They very recently updated
[01:31:05] the Kanak Haiti website. And they say,
[01:31:08] "Well, yes, this was started by uh
[01:31:11] Pastor Edmmond or someone and then
[01:31:13] mentioned another pastor." Um and
[01:31:16] they're both dead.
[01:31:19] And so like who's running can cut Kaiti
[01:31:22] or like with Cross International on the
[01:31:24] ground in Haiti? These two pastors
[01:31:26] mentioned on your website that have been
[01:31:27] running things. They're dead. And then
[01:31:30] we uh we had a whistleblower
[01:31:33] uh who found us. This person on the
[01:31:35] ground was a whistleblower for where
[01:31:38] this money was going. and uh they felt
[01:31:42] like they had to flee for their life
[01:31:44] when they told us what was going on with
[01:31:46] these organizations that Cross
[01:31:47] International and Canada Katie are
[01:31:49] funding
[01:31:50] and uh I won't say where they ended up
[01:31:54] um but I'm glad they're safe and I hope
[01:31:57] they stay safe. Um but these were
[01:32:00] organizations. One was called Free the
[01:32:02] Children and then they got investigated
[01:32:05] for uh child trafficking and organ
[01:32:08] harvesting.
[01:32:10] >> Organ harvesting.
[01:32:11] >> Yeah. And then they rebranded and
[01:32:14] reopened under a different name like
[01:32:16] Overture International or something. And
[01:32:19] then Canak and Cross International still
[01:32:21] gave them money.
[01:32:23] >> Holy [ __ ]
[01:32:26] So to all the Canak donors out there,
[01:32:28] people giving them your business, uh
[01:32:30] you're funding this
[01:32:33] >> organ harvesting of kids and sexual
[01:32:36] trafficking and sexual abuse and rape
[01:32:39] >> and silencing kids with NDAs.
[01:32:41] >> Yeah. And then Yeah. And then silencing
[01:32:44] the kid with a [ __ ] NDA.
[01:32:46] >> Here's the numbers on that. 1.5 million
[01:32:48] to free the kids, a charity run by uh
[01:32:53] it's a Haitian orphanage
[01:32:56] um run by Priest Bu
[01:33:01] and then in 2020,
[01:33:03] yeah, Overture International took over
[01:33:05] governance of Free the Kids after
[01:33:08] someone came forward with public
[01:33:10] accusations of sexual abuse against
[01:33:11] Father Mark, the priest running it.
[01:33:13] [snorts] Um the board was aware of
[01:33:16] multiple reports
[01:33:18] particularly Father Mark. I mean, this
[01:33:20] mentions like three per
[01:33:22] failed to act until they couldn't deny
[01:33:26] the case. And um yeah, here's all the
[01:33:29] emails and things about that. American
[01:33:31] Catholic priest accused of sexually
[01:33:33] assaulting a young boy in Haiti. This is
[01:33:37] all uh an organization that can't cut
[01:33:39] funds and cross international funds.
[01:33:43] Sorry for all the piles of paperwork,
[01:33:44] but I just want people to know I have
[01:33:46] receipts. This isn't just conspiracy
[01:33:49] theory stuff. This is documented.
[01:33:52] >> I think we'll probably
[01:33:57] I think we should just get the digital
[01:33:59] files of all these documents and put
[01:34:01] them in the link in the description so
[01:34:03] all the millions of people that watch
[01:34:04] this can access the documents. I am
[01:34:07] curious. I mean,
[01:34:09] >> you had brought up the FBI. So, what
[01:34:11] how's their investigation going into
[01:34:13] this?
[01:34:14] >> So, that's the reason I put all that
[01:34:16] together was to present it to the FBI.
[01:34:18] Then they said, "Let's uh get in touch
[01:34:20] with the 10 worst victims," which is a
[01:34:22] horrible phrase and label, but who's
[01:34:26] been trafficked,
[01:34:27] >> traumatized.
[01:34:27] >> Yeah. Who's been trafficked um across
[01:34:29] state lines the most, whether it's to
[01:34:31] China, Haiti, or all over the US. And uh
[01:34:34] so I provided that. I talked to the, you
[01:34:36] know, certain victims in that pool who
[01:34:38] were willing to speak. some of them are
[01:34:41] still scared or they're not okay.
[01:34:44] And um so I had to do, you know, a lot
[01:34:48] of calling around and make sure that
[01:34:50] this survivor wanted to talk. Um every
[01:34:53] time they have to talk it brings up,
[01:34:55] >> you know, like I'm sure it's true for
[01:34:57] veterans as well. It's like you have to
[01:34:59] go back there. It's hard. And uh
[01:35:04] so I don't take that lightly, right?
[01:35:06] when I'm calling a survivor for a
[01:35:08] clarifying question or like someone
[01:35:10] wants to speak to a survivor like,
[01:35:11] "Well, who's doing okay right now? Who
[01:35:13] wants to do this right now? Is it
[01:35:14] healing for them?" Anyways, we do that
[01:35:16] work. We give them the list of 10
[01:35:18] survivors willing and ready to speak.
[01:35:20] They don't want the number one thing is
[01:35:22] they don't want this to happen to
[01:35:23] another kid. They want this to stop.
[01:35:27] They're like, "Yeah, I'll talk to
[01:35:28] anyone. Uh, put me on that FBI list."
[01:35:31] The agent starts calling around. I hear
[01:35:33] back from the survivors. they've gotten
[01:35:34] in touch with them and then we follow up
[01:35:38] nothing
[01:35:40] follow up nothing so this presentation I
[01:35:43] was just referring to that was July 2023
[01:35:49] and here we are January 2026
[01:35:52] and uh we're doing Kanak's job for them
[01:35:56] we're doing the FBI's job for them we're
[01:35:57] going and fighting these predators
[01:35:59] >> I'm starting to think that the FBI's job
[01:36:01] is just a [ __ ] mouthpiece for
[01:36:03] whoever's in the White House to explain
[01:36:05] why they're not [ __ ] doing their job.
[01:36:07] It just goes from administration to
[01:36:09] administration to administration and
[01:36:11] that's what they do. You get up there
[01:36:13] and you listen to them talk about why
[01:36:16] the [ __ ] they're failing again.
[01:36:17] >> Yeah. And on this issue, they're not
[01:36:20] informed
[01:36:22] because again, back to when I was the
[01:36:24] board chair of an anti-trafficking
[01:36:25] organization, the survivor leader of
[01:36:27] that organization would go train the FBI
[01:36:30] on how to spot trafficking and
[01:36:32] understand it. Again,
[01:36:34] the burden falls on survivors time after
[01:36:37] time.
[01:36:39] And that survivor, I mean, it's almost
[01:36:42] her full-time job is going around and
[01:36:43] training law enforcement and how to
[01:36:45] understand trafficking, spot it, address
[01:36:47] it.
[01:36:51] So, like, I mean, trafficking's been
[01:36:53] going on for centuries. Why are we
[01:36:56] >> Why are they only talking to 10 victims?
[01:36:59] What are you guys busy doing something?
[01:37:02] [ __ ] prove it.
[01:37:03] >> Yeah, I think they made it through like
[01:37:04] four on that list at least that I heard.
[01:37:06] Yeah.
[01:37:07] >> And so I mean since 20 I started this
[01:37:11] investigation in 2021
[01:37:16] 2020 actually fall of 2020
[01:37:20] and here we are in 2026. I've been in
[01:37:24] touch with 8 to 10 law enforcement
[01:37:25] agencies at this point including the
[01:37:27] inspector general's office. They were
[01:37:29] looking at a cankuct for PPP loan fraud.
[01:37:31] I was like, "Well, get them on whatever
[01:37:32] you can." Like, at this point, I didn't
[01:37:34] know what an inspector general was. I
[01:37:36] had to Google it. [laughter]
[01:37:37] [snorts] I'm like, "This is not what I
[01:37:39] do." But, uh, I guess it is now. Might
[01:37:43] be the rest of my life. But, yeah, I I
[01:37:45] mean, the Inspector General's office,
[01:37:46] HSI, FBI, IRS, DPD. We had an arrest in
[01:37:51] Dallas. We have uh been in touch with
[01:37:54] the uh yeah, different jurisdictions and
[01:37:57] their law enforcement. the attorney
[01:37:59] general of Missouri now two different
[01:38:02] attorney generals in Missouri or they're
[01:38:04] like sorry we can't do anything about
[01:38:05] kanak because we have unique
[01:38:07] jurisdictional issues the way it was
[01:38:08] explained is that in Missouri there's
[01:38:10] unique jurisdictional issues where they
[01:38:12] can't act upon anything unless the local
[01:38:15] law enforcement brings them in. I was
[01:38:17] positively refreshed though by from some
[01:38:19] Missouri legislators. So,
[01:38:23] um, after I uncovered what happened to
[01:38:25] my brother and the statute of limitation
[01:38:28] stuff started making sense, like why was
[01:38:30] he forced to file so before he was
[01:38:32] ready? He he was 21 when his perp went
[01:38:34] to prison and he was forced to file by
[01:38:36] 23 just trying to graduate college like
[01:38:38] heal and like you know wake up from this
[01:38:41] nightmare. And uh so then the civil
[01:38:43] litigation process broke him, led him to
[01:38:45] his first psychotic break. And um
[01:38:50] I connected with these other survivors
[01:38:52] through the facts about Kanekuck network
[01:38:54] we were building
[01:38:56] and I started testifying in Jefferson
[01:38:57] City and started proposing bills that
[01:39:00] would uh help these survivors have
[01:39:02] access to the civil courts past the age
[01:39:03] of 26. In Missouri, it's 26. That law
[01:39:06] has been unchanged since 1938.
[01:39:09] And so I started testifying on statute
[01:39:11] of limitations reform. And the house
[01:39:13] sponsor is from Teny County. His name is
[01:39:16] Representative Brian Sites.
[01:39:19] And uh then our Senate sponsor is Brad
[01:39:21] Hudson also represents uh Branson. So
[01:39:26] when I told them what was going on at
[01:39:27] Canak, they have zero chill about child
[01:39:29] abuse.
[01:39:31] And they were like, we will sponsor this
[01:39:33] bill. And then I went and testified in a
[01:39:35] hearing on it.
[01:39:37] uh brought some survivors as well who
[01:39:40] testified on this bill. The House
[01:39:42] Judiciary Committee was just mind-b
[01:39:44] blown.
[01:39:46] Uh everyone like there had heard of
[01:39:48] Kanek or knows of Kanak cuz if you don't
[01:39:50] have if you don't send your kids to
[01:39:51] Kanek then you go to Kife. It there's
[01:39:54] something everywhere in Missouri Canak
[01:39:56] related and in other states. Um, and
[01:40:00] this lobbyist came up and testified in
[01:40:02] favor on behalf of Mayor Milton of
[01:40:05] Branson. And I lost it. I cried because
[01:40:09] I was like, finally,
[01:40:11] there are people that are standing with
[01:40:13] survivors and they don't care that
[01:40:16] Kanak's one of the top revenue drivers,
[01:40:17] if not the top revenue driver to that
[01:40:19] part of the state. The mayor of Branson
[01:40:21] is on our side and the rep. the house
[01:40:23] rep from the area and the senator who
[01:40:25] represents that district are standing
[01:40:28] with survivors. And I left that hearing
[01:40:30] and the lobbyist for Mayor Milton pulled
[01:40:33] me aside. He was like, "I've got two
[01:40:34] daughters. I'm so pissed off after
[01:40:37] hearing everything I just heard. How can
[01:40:39] I help you?"
[01:40:42] And I'd never worked with a lobbyist. In
[01:40:44] my mind, lobbyists are like shady and
[01:40:47] weird. And uh yeah, so he was like, "I
[01:40:52] want to help." And I would just call him
[01:40:54] and ask a question. He's like, "No, like
[01:40:56] I really want to help. Like it's getting
[01:40:58] to the point where you need to retain a
[01:41:00] lobbying firm because you have a lot of
[01:41:01] opposition." I'm like, "Who?" You know,
[01:41:02] at this point I'm kind of like unaware.
[01:41:05] And he's like, "Oh, you know, just like
[01:41:07] the whole insurance lobby and tort
[01:41:10] reform people and uh the Catholic Church
[01:41:13] and the Boy Scouts of America. Like
[01:41:16] they're spending I don't even know what
[01:41:18] their budget is for lobbying. definitely
[01:41:20] more than
[01:41:22] >> what I can combat as one person.
[01:41:24] >> Even though I'm fundraising now for like
[01:41:26] our efforts, like back then I was like,
[01:41:28] I can't go up against an industry like
[01:41:30] insurance.
[01:41:32] >> Mhm.
[01:41:33] >> Um I had some attorneys on my side who
[01:41:36] had seen the darkness because of cases
[01:41:38] they've taken on.
[01:41:39] >> And so are they trying to shut down um
[01:41:41] the law?
[01:41:43] >> Yeah,
[01:41:43] >> that's what they're doing.
[01:41:44] >> They don't want NDAs released.
[01:41:46] >> Okay. They don't want the statute of
[01:41:48] limitations changed because then it
[01:41:49] opens all these cases up.
[01:41:51] >> Mhm.
[01:41:51] >> And the insurance companies have to pay
[01:41:53] out those settlements.
[01:41:55] >> Gotcha.
[01:41:57] >> So, this lobbyist, uh, shout out to
[01:42:01] Mark, good man. He's like, I want to
[01:42:03] help you. Former firefighter, like I
[01:42:06] don't even think he
[01:42:08] I think he went to college eventually,
[01:42:09] but like he was a first responder. He'd
[01:42:12] been very successful at getting like
[01:42:13] mental health things done for first
[01:42:14] responders in the Missouri legislature
[01:42:15] as a lobbyist. Uh father of two girls.
[01:42:18] He's like, "I want to help you. City of
[01:42:20] Branson's on your side. We've got uh
[01:42:23] Representative Sites and Senator Hudson.
[01:42:25] Um and you need real lobbyists." So they
[01:42:29] took us on and then so that was
[01:42:31] Missouri. Then in Texas through mutual
[01:42:34] friends got connected to one of the
[01:42:36] powerhouse lobbying firms in Austin and
[01:42:39] they've been working with me pro bono.
[01:42:41] um for a couple sessions now. The Texas
[01:42:43] legislature meets every other year.
[01:42:45] Missouri meets every year. So um in
[01:42:49] Missouri, it's usually like a one, two,
[01:42:51] three step process, not getting things
[01:42:52] passed in like one session.
[01:42:56] In Texas, because there's a a gap
[01:42:59] between sessions, you kind of get a
[01:43:01] little more panicked if you don't pass
[01:43:03] something that session. It's going to be
[01:43:04] two more years before you can even get
[01:43:05] something else done.
[01:43:06] >> Mhm. Um, but yeah, we got Trey's law
[01:43:09] passed in Texas and Missouri.
[01:43:12] >> Did you have any help from any people in
[01:43:14] Congress or anybody to get that pushed
[01:43:16] through in Texas or Missouri?
[01:43:18] >> Yeah, so I mentioned our bill sponsors
[01:43:20] in Missouri who represent Kanak's
[01:43:21] district, which I'm sure just upset
[01:43:23] them, but uh we got that done. And then
[01:43:28] uh and that applies to child sexual
[01:43:29] abuse and trafficking victims, so
[01:43:32] minors. and it's uh for cases that arose
[01:43:36] on or after August 28th of last year,
[01:43:38] 2025. In Texas, we got a version of
[01:43:41] Trey's law passed that covers all
[01:43:45] survivors of sexual assault regardless
[01:43:47] of their age and regardless of when it
[01:43:49] happened. And that was a really
[01:43:51] interesting
[01:43:53] process. Um I had Representative Jeff
[01:43:56] Leech as our House Champion. He's also
[01:43:58] the House Judiciary Chair. and uh he
[01:44:01] gave us the opportunity to provide an
[01:44:02] interim briefing to his committee. So
[01:44:05] that's super helpful because before the
[01:44:06] next session even starts, you're
[01:44:08] briefing them on this issue so that they
[01:44:09] can decide uh how to prioritize it, who
[01:44:12] should carry the bill, those kinds of
[01:44:14] things. Jeff carried for us on the House
[01:44:16] side because this was personal to him.
[01:44:20] >> His wife's a disclosed survivor. She got
[01:44:22] the civil statute of limitations
[01:44:23] extended to age 48 back in 2019.
[01:44:27] Um, and
[01:44:30] that's great, but it wasn't retroactive.
[01:44:32] So, again, as I mentioned, if you were
[01:44:33] abused between 1995 and 2015 in Texas,
[01:44:36] you still only have until the age of 23
[01:44:37] to sue. Then it got extended to like 33,
[01:44:41] now it's 48. Um, but that only applies
[01:44:45] to uh victims after 2029. I sorry, 2019.
[01:44:50] So, since that was passed in 2019, it
[01:44:52] only applies to survivors who were
[01:44:54] abused after 2019. They have until age
[01:44:57] 48. But Jeff Leech, this was personal to
[01:45:00] him. Then I meet with Senator Angela
[01:45:03] Paxton and turns out it's quite personal
[01:45:06] to her as well. She's a former school
[01:45:08] teacher and counselor. She's a mother
[01:45:12] and a grandmother
[01:45:14] and she has zero chill about child
[01:45:15] abuse. And I told her about a former
[01:45:19] student of hers that is under an NDA.
[01:45:23] was now I can say was under an NDA
[01:45:27] and he had been in her 10th grade math
[01:45:29] class
[01:45:31] and when I said
[01:45:33] I'm not going to say his name but like
[01:45:35] when I said so and so says hello and
[01:45:38] this is personal to him she burst into
[01:45:40] tears and she told her team this is why
[01:45:42] God put me in the legislature
[01:45:46] >> to pass this bill
[01:45:47] >> there is a good person in there
[01:45:49] >> so I want people to know they're not all
[01:45:53] There there are people that have fought
[01:45:54] with me tooth and nail. What I mean by
[01:45:56] that is
[01:45:57] >> what's her name?
[01:45:58] >> Angela Paxton.
[01:46:01] Um
[01:46:03] she's done a lot of good for kids in
[01:46:05] Texas. Um her husband's a politician too
[01:46:09] and so she knew the ropes and um yeah,
[01:46:15] she was a ride or die champion on this
[01:46:18] in Texas. Then there's a representative
[01:46:20] named Mitch Little and he's a practicing
[01:46:23] attorney in the area of child sexual
[01:46:25] abuse.
[01:46:27] So as we were drafting the bill, we had
[01:46:29] a constitutional issue.
[01:46:31] So under the Texas uh I think it's even
[01:46:34] in the Bill of Rights, not just in the
[01:46:35] Constitution, but uh no retroactive laws
[01:46:38] can be made. And I really in Texas
[01:46:40] needed the law to be retroactive
[01:46:43] because
[01:46:45] it's my brother's story, right? It's
[01:46:46] that student of Senator Paxton's story
[01:46:50] that they were put under these NDAs, uh,
[01:46:54] you know, after the Pete Newman scandal.
[01:46:56] So, they needed this to be retroactive
[01:46:59] to be freed from their NDAs. Otherwise,
[01:47:01] it's just helping future victims, which
[01:47:03] is still good. But the conflict with the
[01:47:05] Constitution in Texas was an issue. And
[01:47:09] in Missouri, it's not retroactive
[01:47:11] because we have to address the
[01:47:12] constitutional conflict there. But Mitch
[01:47:14] Little being a brilliant lawyer, he uh
[01:47:17] came up with a loophole and he said
[01:47:20] anyone who wants to enforced an existing
[01:47:23] NDA has to get a special court order to
[01:47:25] keep it in effect. Otherwise, all NDAs
[01:47:28] are void and uninforceable in the state
[01:47:29] of Texas after September 1st, 2025.
[01:47:32] >> Nice.
[01:47:33] >> And I thought that was a brilliant
[01:47:34] strategy because
[01:47:36] it forces the bad actors to reveal
[01:47:38] themselves.
[01:47:39] >> Mhm. You want to take that abused kid to
[01:47:42] court and get a special court order to
[01:47:43] maintain that child's NDA or that
[01:47:46] victim's NDA?
[01:47:48] Show your face.
[01:47:51] So,
[01:47:51] >> pretty slick.
[01:47:52] >> What we accomplished in Texas is
[01:47:54] monumental. It's the most sweeping NDA
[01:47:56] reform anywhere in the country and
[01:47:58] probably world. There have been other
[01:47:59] NDA reforms passed um like the SpeakOut
[01:48:02] Act, which applies to sexual harassment
[01:48:03] in the workplace. Um that was led by
[01:48:06] Gretchen Carlson and Julie Robinsky. Uh
[01:48:08] they were Roger Al's victims at Fox News
[01:48:12] and I got to know Gretchen when um and
[01:48:16] their nonprofit's called Lift Our Voices
[01:48:17] and they're still working on this issue
[01:48:19] but it's workplace related like
[01:48:21] pre-ispute NDAs in the workplace. So
[01:48:23] like I mean then it's valid. It's
[01:48:25] important work. Think about the
[01:48:27] McDonald's worker who signs an
[01:48:28] employment contract. They don't
[01:48:29] understand NDAs. They don't understand
[01:48:32] they're signing away their right to uh a
[01:48:34] court because they get sent to
[01:48:36] arbitration behind closed doors just by
[01:48:38] signing that employment contract. So
[01:48:40] what Gretchen and Julie are doing is
[01:48:42] really important and just leaves out
[01:48:44] kids.
[01:48:45] Um and so the SpeakOut Act passed
[01:48:47] federally in 2022
[01:48:50] and that's for predispute NDAs in
[01:48:53] workplace sexual harassment cases. Um,
[01:48:56] and I got connected through Gretchen
[01:48:57] when I was on the board of a women's
[01:48:59] philanthropic network and she had joined
[01:49:03] as a new member. We had members day. She
[01:49:05] talked about lift our voices and what
[01:49:06] she was trying to do. I side chatted her
[01:49:09] and I said, um, this is my brother's
[01:49:13] story. And she goes, I've never heard of
[01:49:16] a kid being put under an NDA. That's
[01:49:18] horrible. So, we got on a call and I
[01:49:20] told her Trey's story
[01:49:23] and she said, "You need to talk to Nancy
[01:49:25] French. She lives in Franklin,
[01:49:27] Tennessee, and she's a ghost writer,
[01:49:28] does celebrity memoirs. She like spent
[01:49:31] 30 days in Wasilla, Alaska with the
[01:49:33] Palins writing some books. She did uh a
[01:49:36] book for Mitt Romney. She did Sean
[01:49:39] Johnson, the Olympic gymnast. Um,
[01:49:42] she she's had a lot like I hope she
[01:49:45] writes a book one day about all of the
[01:49:46] books she's written. and the behind the
[01:49:48] scenes are crazy. Um, but I didn't know
[01:49:51] Nancy French. Um, I just went off this
[01:49:55] lead from Gretchen. She goes, "You need
[01:49:56] to write a book." Uh, and then once you
[01:49:59] have your book, you can option it into a
[01:50:02] film. Get this story out. Like what uh
[01:50:04] like Bombshell in their case
[01:50:06] >> helped people understand the Roger Al
[01:50:08] story and the Fox News stuff.
[01:50:09] >> Mhm.
[01:50:10] >> Or like Spotlight, right? The Catholic
[01:50:12] Church crisis. That movie helped expose
[01:50:14] the scale and the scope of the
[01:50:17] situation. So, I get on a call with
[01:50:19] Nancy for 45 minutes. Um, she's a
[01:50:23] disclosed survivor of clergy abuse when
[01:50:25] she was 12. Vacation Bible School
[01:50:27] teacher abused her when she was 12 in
[01:50:29] the Church of Christ in Kentucky.
[01:50:32] And I told her what I was uncovering and
[01:50:35] working on, and she was like, "I don't
[01:50:38] uh know how I can help. like yes, I'm a
[01:50:40] ghost writer, but
[01:50:43] this needs to get out to the public
[01:50:44] ASAP.
[01:50:46] So, anyways, we like stayed in touch.
[01:50:47] She's an amazing writer. And so, I was
[01:50:49] like, if nothing else, look at this
[01:50:50] facts about Canak website and help me
[01:50:52] out with um how do we get the word out?
[01:50:56] And then I met this woman who on a blog
[01:50:59] post about the Pete Newman arrest and a
[01:51:02] local like a local blogger in Teny
[01:51:04] County had written about Pete Newman's
[01:51:06] arrest and someone left her full name
[01:51:08] and address and said I reported Pete
[01:51:10] Newman well before he was arrested cuz
[01:51:13] my daughter saw him abusing a boy in the
[01:51:14] woods. I contact her. She had
[01:51:17] investigated Kanekuck on her own as a
[01:51:18] freelance journalist for like four
[01:51:19] years. Um and I said, "Can I acquire
[01:51:23] your research?" I got her research. We
[01:51:24] organized it into like six binders. I
[01:51:27] take those binders out to Franklin,
[01:51:28] Tennessee to meet with Nancy French. And
[01:51:31] I'm going over the evidence, like some
[01:51:32] of the stuff I showed you, like they
[01:51:33] knew in 2003, why are they putting him
[01:51:36] under boundaries of like no nudity with
[01:51:38] children, no sleeping one-on-one with
[01:51:39] children if he's not sleeping one-on-one
[01:51:40] with children? And um her husband David,
[01:51:44] he'd started a media a platform called
[01:51:46] The Dispatch with some other guys. and
[01:51:49] it was a um a right-leaning conservative
[01:51:52] media outlet.
[01:51:54] And he walked in, he brought us lunch
[01:51:57] while we were going through all these
[01:51:58] binders trying to figure out like how do
[01:51:59] we write a book about this or what are
[01:52:01] we doing with this information cuz it
[01:52:02] has to get out. And he heard me say
[01:52:04] 500,000 kids have gone through this
[01:52:06] place, 50,000. And then he heard the NDA
[01:52:09] part and he was like what? So
[01:52:11] infuriated. He had just exposed Robbie
[01:52:13] Zacharias. So, whistleblower friend in
[01:52:16] the Robbie Zacharias scandal, huge big t
[01:52:18] televangelist who uh very well known
[01:52:22] around the world and then he died and
[01:52:24] all these people came out about how
[01:52:26] they'd been trafficked by Robbie
[01:52:27] Zacharias. So, her NY's husband, David
[01:52:30] French, had just exposed that. So, he he
[01:52:33] was like NDAs all of the things where
[01:52:35] it's like the same thing just another
[01:52:36] version of it. This is kids. And um
[01:52:41] so by the time I flew back to Dallas,
[01:52:45] they were like, "This can't wait on a
[01:52:47] book. We need to get this out to the
[01:52:48] public ASAP." So that's how the first
[01:52:50] articles came out on the Dispatch. Uh
[01:52:54] and that platform, it's like a Substack
[01:52:56] model kind of platform. So not
[01:52:58] mainstream. I couldn't get mainstream
[01:52:59] media to write about this or care about.
[01:53:00] >> Of course, they won't touch it.
[01:53:02] >> Yeah.
[01:53:02] >> Have they ever touched it?
[01:53:03] >> Well,
[01:53:04] >> somebody did. I went top down on uh uh I
[01:53:08] had a friend who was vice president of
[01:53:09] Ganette Communications and I told her
[01:53:12] I'm stuck. I can't get Springfield news
[01:53:14] leader, the local paper to write about
[01:53:18] this. So we had the dispatch
[01:53:21] and then it got picked up by some other
[01:53:23] >> say Ganet Communications. Yeah. Like
[01:53:25] Northeast.
[01:53:26] >> They they own USA Today and like a big
[01:53:30] media conglomerate.
[01:53:31] >> Okay. And I had worked at uh so
[01:53:37] at one point towards the end of college
[01:53:40] I interned for the RNC, the Republican
[01:53:42] National Convention with this friend and
[01:53:45] um we both studied corporate
[01:53:47] communications and public affairs. We're
[01:53:49] both trained in crisis PR. That's how I
[01:53:51] saw what Kanek was doing cuz that was my
[01:53:53] degree.
[01:53:55] >> Wow.
[01:53:55] >> And so uh I call her and she was like,
[01:53:59] "This is ridiculous. I'm going to get
[01:54:01] you on a Zoom call with the head of
[01:54:03] investigative reporting for our whole
[01:54:06] company. And then they brought in the
[01:54:08] regional head for uh USA Today
[01:54:12] and we finally got five articles
[01:54:15] published in USA Today in the
[01:54:16] Springfield newsletter because I told
[01:54:18] them that if they don't report on this
[01:54:20] then they're part of the cover up.
[01:54:23] >> Nice.
[01:54:24] >> And then they ran five articles. I was
[01:54:25] like, "Yeah, catching up for lost time."
[01:54:28] >> Nice.
[01:54:28] >> Then would be better. Anyways, but once
[01:54:30] we got USA Today, that led to a Vice
[01:54:32] News piece. We actually won an Emmy on
[01:54:33] that about the NDAs back in uh we won an
[01:54:36] Emmy in 2022 for that.
[01:54:38] >> Nice.
[01:54:38] >> Vice News, Vice TV is not around
[01:54:40] anymore, but um they did a responsible
[01:54:42] and good job on that story. We had to
[01:54:45] have victims with anonymized treatments
[01:54:46] because they were scared because the
[01:54:48] NDAs of speaking out. So, they had to do
[01:54:51] like, you know, the blackout
[01:54:53] >> Mhm.
[01:54:53] >> treatment for these victims to talk. Um,
[01:54:56] [clears throat] and then we did a CBS
[01:54:58] survivor sitdown. I hosted it in Dallas.
[01:55:00] Flew victims in from around the country.
[01:55:02] Uh, same thing, anonymized treatment.
[01:55:04] Everyone was so scared because of these
[01:55:05] NDAs. Um, so after the dispatch articles
[01:55:10] and David and Nancy put their stamp of
[01:55:12] credibility on it. David's now at the
[01:55:14] New York Times and he's mentioned it in
[01:55:16] a couple of his opinion pieces, the
[01:55:18] Canac scandal. and [snorts]
[01:55:20] um they're both Christians and
[01:55:24] uh they have three kids and now
[01:55:26] grandkids. They don't they don't like
[01:55:28] this stuff.
[01:55:28] >> Mhm.
[01:55:29] >> So,
[01:55:31] uh I still talk to them frequently and
[01:55:32] they're always trying to help make
[01:55:34] intros, get this covered. [snorts]
[01:55:36] Um so, the mainstream media eventually
[01:55:38] followed, but that was not who wanted to
[01:55:40] tell this story initially. In fact, the
[01:55:42] woman I mentioned who I I re I acquired
[01:55:45] her research and put it in binders, uh
[01:55:47] she had taken the story, she did four
[01:55:49] years of investigating this and then she
[01:55:50] took the story to Vanity Fair and they
[01:55:53] said, "Oh, we have abuse fatigue. We
[01:55:54] just did a story on Catholic abuse."
[01:55:58] So, she gave up on it. Fortunately, you
[01:56:01] know, we got connected. It was a year
[01:56:04] almost a year to the date after Trey
[01:56:06] died because my therapist I'd been
[01:56:08] working with when Trey was not doing
[01:56:11] well because I had little kids all my
[01:56:15] hats, you know, day job stuff
[01:56:18] and I was going to visitation hours in
[01:56:20] psych wards or visiting train rehab. And
[01:56:23] it got to the point where I I was
[01:56:26] getting unhealthy.
[01:56:28] >> Right. I'm big sis, but I'm also mom and
[01:56:32] I'm also stewarding this foundation role
[01:56:36] I have and all these boards, you know,
[01:56:38] like I couldn't just full-time take care
[01:56:40] of Trey, but everywhere we went failed
[01:56:43] him. Um, mental health system's a mess.
[01:56:49] I've seen the guts of it. It's not
[01:56:51] great. um
[01:56:53] medications he'd try would make him fat
[01:56:56] or like make the depression worse.
[01:56:58] >> Man,
[01:56:59] >> he was on and off suicidal for for
[01:57:02] years. I never knew when that would be
[01:57:03] the last time I you know these phone
[01:57:06] calls or visits like I always left
[01:57:09] thinking that could be the last time,
[01:57:10] you know. And I'd go from like
[01:57:14] corpole line where I'd see a can of
[01:57:17] cockuck bumper sticker to visiting Trey
[01:57:19] in a psychord.
[01:57:23] And
[01:57:24] I understand why he didn't want to live
[01:57:26] in this world.
[01:57:28] Every everyone in Dallas just thinks
[01:57:30] Canuck is like I mean not anymore but
[01:57:34] like for the longest time people still
[01:57:36] sending their kids there. He felt so
[01:57:38] unseen and he couldn't talk about it. I
[01:57:41] would listen. I'm so glad I leaned in. I
[01:57:44] listened to everything he wanted to tell
[01:57:45] me and a lot of it got super dark.
[01:57:49] And he was a brain researcher. He was
[01:57:52] brilliant. And he was working at the
[01:57:53] Langanger Lab, which is shared program
[01:57:55] between MIT and Harvard.
[01:57:58] And he was studying the brain, I think,
[01:57:59] because he wanted to fix his own.
[01:58:03] So really smart kid growing up, national
[01:58:07] merit scholar, not finalist, not semi,
[01:58:08] national merit scholar, like top 01%
[01:58:11] like on that test. Um,
[01:58:14] he
[01:58:16] always wanted to be premed. Um, [snorts]
[01:58:20] he had the he could have been a brain
[01:58:22] surgeon. I mean, he was brilliant,
[01:58:24] well-rounded, football, um, cross
[01:58:27] country, like athletic, all the things,
[01:58:30] Eagle Scout.
[01:58:32] And then um those depositions like I
[01:58:35] mentioned led to his first psychotic
[01:58:36] break. Thanks Canac. So it's like the
[01:58:39] child sexual abuse and then you had the
[01:58:41] institutional abuse and the gaslighting
[01:58:43] in those depositions
[01:58:46] and then the in and out of treatment
[01:58:48] centers. Some he would leave without
[01:58:49] even a diagnosis and there's like 20
[01:58:52] more medications.
[01:58:54] Nothing was working or helping. Um, and
[01:58:58] so [snorts] he started like deep diving
[01:59:01] and uh
[01:59:04] he came out to live in North Carolina
[01:59:05] with us for a month and he was too
[01:59:08] paranoid to go to a certain therapist's
[01:59:11] office.
[01:59:13] I got him in because of like my
[01:59:15] foundation role. I was doing some work
[01:59:16] with the University of North Carolina um
[01:59:18] in Greensboro on healthy relationships.
[01:59:20] So these guys are all psychologists and
[01:59:23] so I called the head of that department.
[01:59:25] great counseling department. I'm like,
[01:59:26] who's the best person in town for
[01:59:28] complex PTSD? Like, I I don't know if my
[01:59:32] brother's gonna make it, right? And I've
[01:59:34] got little kids I'm dealing with, too.
[01:59:36] And he gives me a name. We go and we
[01:59:39] meet with that therapist, and I have to
[01:59:41] sign the intake forms and like my own.
[01:59:44] He's too scared. He's in a ball in the
[01:59:46] corner.
[01:59:46] >> Jeez. We get in the office with the
[01:59:50] therapist and he's totally like almost
[01:59:53] catatonic, closed off
[01:59:56] and then I ask this woman, "Tell Trey
[02:00:01] about other clients you've had." And she
[02:00:03] goes into, "Well, I've treated MK Ultra
[02:00:06] victims."
[02:00:08] And I didn't know what that I was like,
[02:00:10] "What?"
[02:00:12] And Trey
[02:00:14] suddenly came too and was like, "Oh,
[02:00:17] yeah,
[02:00:18] okay." Like he that earned his trust.
[02:00:21] And she had had clients like starting
[02:00:23] back in the 80s who would be in session
[02:00:26] with her and they'd hear an ice cream
[02:00:28] truck and just go into a trance and
[02:00:29] follow the ice cream truck and then go
[02:00:31] back and forth between like being a
[02:00:33] three-year-old, a 30-year-old, a
[02:00:35] 15year-old, you know, like that
[02:00:37] multi-personality thing.
[02:00:40] So she's like, "I've seen it all." And
[02:00:43] um
[02:00:45] what's going on? And Trey's like, "Tell
[02:00:46] her about Kak." So like I would tell
[02:00:48] about Canuck you didn't want to talk
[02:00:50] about it. And she's like, "Your symptoms
[02:00:54] are a lot like victims I've seen who
[02:00:56] survived satanic ritualistic abuse or
[02:00:59] like this MK Ultra stuff." [snorts]
[02:01:02] And that's where I'm like, you know, I'm
[02:01:04] just sitting there as a supportive
[02:01:05] sister, but I'm also listening
[02:01:09] and
[02:01:11] I go buy every book I can on MK Ultra
[02:01:14] and like all this stuff. I thought it
[02:01:16] was a conspiracy theory. And then I come
[02:01:19] back to we moved back to Dallas
[02:01:20] eventually and I got to really lean into
[02:01:23] helping my brother. So that lady was in
[02:01:26] North Carolina. Move back to Dallas,
[02:01:27] find other therapists. Same thing.
[02:01:31] Like sometimes he's 15, sometimes he's
[02:01:33] seven, sometimes he's 30 something. And
[02:01:36] I'm like, "What did Kanak do to you?"
[02:01:40] It's like, "What did they do to you?"
[02:01:43] [gasps]
[02:01:51] So, it wasn't just like one therapist
[02:01:54] who was like crazy. It was like
[02:01:57] everywhere he went
[02:02:00] when I was included. I got to see I got
[02:02:02] a front row seat to his suffering.
[02:02:06] And I learned a lot about how these
[02:02:09] networks work. It's never just one
[02:02:12] perpetrator. It's never just one victim.
[02:02:16] The ritualistic abuse going on in the
[02:02:18] name of Jesus. Like
[02:02:22] this guy who was abusing these kids was
[02:02:24] also baptizing them.
[02:02:27] >> Oh man,
[02:02:28] >> reading scripture over them and praying
[02:02:30] over them as the abuse is happening.
[02:02:34] [snorts] It shattered my faith.
[02:02:41] [snorts]
[02:02:42] reading scripture over them.
[02:02:46] [snorts]
[02:02:49] >> Did your brother tell you that?
[02:02:53] >> I've talked to so many survivors now. So
[02:02:55] Trey was scared to talk
[02:02:58] because of the NDA and he told a
[02:03:00] therapist in Dallas.
[02:03:02] She's in the same building as the guy
[02:03:04] who wrote the book CIA Doctors,
[02:03:07] Colin Ross, I think is his name. Um I
[02:03:11] read that. I started educating myself on
[02:03:13] like the MK Ultra stuff's declassified.
[02:03:15] Like I just totally thought Trey was
[02:03:18] being like psychotic or something and I
[02:03:21] was like, "Oh, this I did my own
[02:03:22] research. I was like, "This stuff's for
[02:03:25] real."
[02:03:26] And I met doctors that like treat these
[02:03:29] patients and trace symptoms lined up
[02:03:32] with all that. And I'm like, "Oh my
[02:03:34] gosh." And then
[02:03:36] um
[02:03:38] 4 days, I think it was 4 days, like very
[02:03:41] close to his death, he reached out to
[02:03:44] that therapist
[02:03:46] and said, "They'll always control me and
[02:03:48] I'll never be free."
[02:03:52] >> Damn.
[02:03:52] >> And then he killed himself.
[02:03:58] >> I'm sorry.
[02:03:59] >> And when
[02:04:08] when I started going around to meet with
[02:04:11] his therapists
[02:04:14] and hear like all the same things over
[02:04:16] and over and over again
[02:04:19] of just like victims they've treated and
[02:04:22] how it's hard to at that point like and
[02:04:25] then there was also like drugs and
[02:04:27] addiction involved in tra like it's just
[02:04:29] so hard to come back from up and like
[02:04:32] all the medications and the failures
[02:04:35] of uh different doctors who couldn't
[02:04:37] help him.
[02:04:38] I learned pretty early on I couldn't
[02:04:40] save him.
[02:04:42] So, you know, as a big sister, you're
[02:04:44] like, I'm supposed to protect
[02:04:46] my little brothers and I couldn't. Um,
[02:04:51] so I had, you know, my own therapist
[02:04:53] walking me through all this. [snorts]
[02:04:56] She's really cool. Well, she's retired
[02:04:57] now, but she um
[02:05:00] PhD
[02:05:02] Messianic Jew. So, like she's ethnically
[02:05:04] Jewish, but she came to know Christ. Her
[02:05:06] housekeeper converted her to uh to
[02:05:09] Christ. And
[02:05:11] she had a really cool faith.
[02:05:13] Um and she helped me understand like how
[02:05:16] to set boundaries. Like you don't have
[02:05:18] to go to every visitation hours. You
[02:05:19] don't have to go to all his therapy.
[02:05:21] Like you have to self-care because
[02:05:24] you're a mom. You're all these other
[02:05:25] things too. you're not just Trey's big
[02:05:27] sister. My parents were going through a
[02:05:29] divorce at the time, too.
[02:05:31] >> Oh, man.
[02:05:31] >> Perfect storm.
[02:05:33] Uh, so she said, "You need to take a
[02:05:36] year and just grieve."
[02:05:39] And I'm a very actionoriented person,
[02:05:42] Sean, if you can't tell. So, that was
[02:05:45] hard to heed, right? Um, it's like,
[02:05:50] "What do you mean just grieve? Like,
[02:05:51] just cry all the time for a year? Like,
[02:05:53] I I've got stuff to do.
[02:05:56] And she's like, "No, just grief." Like,
[02:05:58] sit in the grief. Feel like if you can't
[02:06:00] feel it, then you'll never heal from it.
[02:06:03] Like, you have to feel it to heal it.
[02:06:06] And the Jewish faith tradition has some
[02:06:08] really cool stuff around grief, like the
[02:06:10] way that they um do funerals and the way
[02:06:14] the community supports each other when
[02:06:16] someone passes away.
[02:06:18] And um she's like, "You need to go
[02:06:21] through the first four seasons without
[02:06:23] your brother before you take any action.
[02:06:27] Like just grieve it." And um it was
[02:06:30] really good advice for someone like me.
[02:06:32] But then
[02:06:34] about a year,
[02:06:36] like literally she said grieve for a
[02:06:38] year. Then that year passed and I'm
[02:06:39] like, "Okay, going to do something."
[02:06:43] That's when I got on the middle of the
[02:06:45] night and I find this blog post and it's
[02:06:48] called the Turner Report and he was like
[02:06:50] a
[02:06:52] local journalist who did his own
[02:06:54] blogging thing in Tanny County and he'd
[02:06:57] posted about Pete Newman's indictment
[02:06:59] and then like reported on the criminal
[02:07:02] trial proceedings
[02:07:04] and that's where I found that comment
[02:07:05] from that woman whose daughter had
[02:07:07] witnessed Pete with a boy in the woods
[02:07:09] and then acquired her research and all
[02:07:11] that. I got a burner phone after that
[02:07:15] like a drug dealer and I would uh take I
[02:07:18] would get tips because in Trey's
[02:07:20] obituary
[02:07:21] we uh we said my parents and I like our
[02:07:26] family agreed like we are going to name
[02:07:28] this abuse.
[02:07:30] Um so so many people were confused like
[02:07:33] what's wrong with Trey?
[02:07:35] He was like a straight A student
[02:07:38] football player. Like Trey was it. He
[02:07:41] was like the man. All the girls wanted
[02:07:43] to date Trey. Like all the boys wanted
[02:07:44] to be Trey. Like and then
[02:07:47] suddenly he's dead.
[02:07:50] Not so suddenly actually. It was a slow
[02:07:53] decline. Uh all horrible. And uh
[02:08:00] yeah, so he uh in his obituary we wrote
[02:08:03] all those things that were great about
[02:08:04] him. And at the end we said he was a
[02:08:06] Canut Camp abuse survivor
[02:08:10] um and a friend to other survivors he
[02:08:12] could help. And [snorts] um
[02:08:17] so that was out there in the Dallas
[02:08:19] Morning News and we started getting
[02:08:20] outreach from you know like the me too
[02:08:23] movement. I call this kids too cuz we
[02:08:26] kept getting all these calls about um
[02:08:30] our family. We we think our son might
[02:08:33] have been abused at Canakook. he's never
[02:08:35] talked about it or a direct victim
[02:08:38] reaching out. I had to be really careful
[02:08:41] because
[02:08:42] one thing we knew from the civil case is
[02:08:46] that Canak would put PIs on the victims
[02:08:49] and they would like pull their trash and
[02:08:52] uh surveillance them to get like, you
[02:08:54] know, any evidence of homosexual
[02:08:56] behavior, drug use, and then use it
[02:08:59] against them in depositions.
[02:09:02] And all these victims I've talked to,
[02:09:03] like so many of them are like, "Yeah, I
[02:09:05] was followed by a black SUV." I'm like,
[02:09:07] "Oh my god, I thought Trey was just like
[02:09:10] getting schizophrenic or something."
[02:09:11] Like, I didn't not that I didn't believe
[02:09:13] him. I was just like skeptical.
[02:09:15] >> Mhm.
[02:09:16] >> And then you hear it enough times,
[02:09:17] you're like
[02:09:20] that is so evil
[02:09:23] that Canook and their attorneys would
[02:09:26] surveillance victims. And they also set
[02:09:28] up a hotline in the wake of pizza arrest
[02:09:33] that would report back to themselves
[02:09:36] like victim support.com.
[02:09:38] And then that's how they
[02:09:40] >> Are you kidding me?
[02:09:41] >> That's how they grew their list of
[02:09:43] victims is like victimupport can. It's
[02:09:46] still up on their website.
[02:09:48] And so then you serious?
[02:09:49] >> Yeah. Then they can intercept the
[02:09:51] victims and Joe White would offer some
[02:09:53] families a trip to Disney World, a fancy
[02:09:55] hunting trip. um
[02:09:58] like uh $100,000 for treatment, but it
[02:10:02] comes with an NDA.
[02:10:05] >> [ __ ]
[02:10:07] That's still on the website.
[02:10:09] >> Yeah, it's victim support.com, I think.
[02:10:11] >> We'll pull it we'll put it up on screen
[02:10:13] right now.
[02:10:14] >> Yeah, they have this our response page
[02:10:16] because
[02:10:16] >> that way if there's any victims, you
[02:10:18] know, they can
[02:10:21] knock to their abuser.
[02:10:22] >> Yeah. Not go there. [laughter]
[02:10:24] >> What the [ __ ] Well, it's worse than
[02:10:26] that, too. They had counselors in their
[02:10:28] network of counselors and um they would
[02:10:33] send people to this guy and then things
[02:10:36] that a victim would say in their
[02:10:37] counseling session thinking they it's
[02:10:40] confidential. Hello, HIPPA.
[02:10:43] Things they would have only told that
[02:10:44] counselor come up in depositions.
[02:10:47] >> Holy [ __ ]
[02:10:50] >> So, this is very like Scientology. I
[02:10:52] mean there this is not the only cult
[02:10:54] that does this but that's what they were
[02:10:56] doing to victims too.
[02:10:59] And then Kanek would pay the counselor
[02:11:01] like pay the invoices. They would say oh
[02:11:03] you deserve free therapy. Um we'll pay
[02:11:06] for your therapy. But they wouldn't give
[02:11:08] the victim the money. They would pay the
[02:11:10] therapist and the therapist would report
[02:11:11] back.
[02:11:15] >> Mhm.
[02:11:16] >> Do you have the names of the therapists?
[02:11:18] >> Oh yeah.
[02:11:21] Is there any legal recourse to them?
[02:11:24] >> No.
[02:11:25] >> Nothing.
[02:11:26] >> No. I mean I
[02:11:27] >> Not for breaking hip, but not any of
[02:11:29] that.
[02:11:30] >> No. I mean I think that So that I'm
[02:11:33] thinking of one in particular, like the
[02:11:35] one I have the most on. Um he
[02:11:39] was at a Baptist church in Branson
[02:11:42] and uh I think when a lot of this came
[02:11:45] out in Discovery and these lawsuits,
[02:11:47] they fired him or he's no longer in that
[02:11:49] role at that church.
[02:11:51] Um but yeah, there's a network of
[02:11:54] therapists that feed the information
[02:11:55] back to Kak.
[02:11:56] >> So they they
[02:11:58] Canook recruited therapists
[02:12:05] to talk to their victims and then have
[02:12:08] them report the deepest, darkest, most
[02:12:11] disgusting sexual abuse back to them so
[02:12:15] that they can cover it up. These are
[02:12:16] [ __ ] licensed therapists.
[02:12:18] >> Mhm. Yeah. And the victims that would
[02:12:20] tell me this, I'd be like, "Report them
[02:12:22] to like try to get their license
[02:12:23] revoked, right?" Like I don't personally
[02:12:26] have a claim, right? Cuz it didn't
[02:12:28] happen to me. But I tell the victims it
[02:12:30] happened to like, "Please report this to
[02:12:33] the licensing agency in Missouri."
[02:12:38] Because he should lose his license.
[02:12:42] >> Holy [ __ ]
[02:12:44] >> Joe White also claims to be
[02:12:47] >> I think what's the the most
[02:12:50] How do you how do you find this many
[02:12:53] people who are like
[02:12:56] okay with sexually abusing kids?
[02:13:01] Like they they did everything but put a
[02:13:03] [ __ ] recruitment like poster up that
[02:13:06] says, "Hey, if you if you love to
[02:13:07] sexually
[02:13:09] abuse kids,
[02:13:12] sign up here."
[02:13:14] >> Exactly. So like that's why it's so
[02:13:16] important when an institution has a case
[02:13:18] of child sexual abuse that they have an
[02:13:20] independent investigation
[02:13:22] into that organization,
[02:13:24] not a law firm to cover, you know, them,
[02:13:27] but to have an independent investigation
[02:13:30] that looks into the scope and scale of
[02:13:32] the abuse that's occurred because it's
[02:13:34] I've never seen a case where it's just
[02:13:35] one perpetrator or just one victim. like
[02:13:38] they're they're usually tied into
[02:13:39] especially with like the online stuff so
[02:13:41] intersectional with this institutional
[02:13:44] abuse, right? Because they desensitize
[02:13:45] their victims by using
[02:13:48] porn a lot of the time or um in the case
[02:13:51] of Kanek and some of these other like
[02:13:53] Assemblies of God and um [snorts]
[02:13:56] certainly Catholic church abuse SBC
[02:13:58] stuff, they use an element of
[02:13:59] spirituality to it. Um, like Pete Newman
[02:14:03] would tell boys that if they masturbated
[02:14:05] with him in a hot tub, they were still
[02:14:07] sexually pure because they weren't doing
[02:14:08] it with a woman. So, it's like, and and
[02:14:11] that ties back again to Joe White's
[02:14:13] books about teen purity. So, like from
[02:14:15] the top, you have this dude who's
[02:14:17] obsessed with teen sex and purity. And
[02:14:20] then his own words and philosophy and
[02:14:22] theology are twisted by these pedophiles
[02:14:26] that come to work at Canak. And then
[02:14:29] they get caught abusing kids. And Joe
[02:14:31] White's like, "Oh, it's just boys being
[02:14:33] boys. I thought it was immature. I
[02:14:35] didn't think it was criminal." You He
[02:14:37] says things like this in the deposition
[02:14:38] tapes we have. And um he was like,
[02:14:42] "There, you know, just
[02:14:43] >> Do you have them saying that?"
[02:14:45] >> Oh, yeah. We have hours and hours of
[02:14:46] deposition videos.
[02:14:48] >> Can we put them up?
[02:14:49] >> Yeah, let's put them up. I
[02:14:50] >> We can insert them into this.
[02:14:52] >> Please, please
[02:14:53] >> send it.
[02:14:54] >> Yeah,
[02:14:54] >> send it to us.
[02:14:55] >> Just wait till you see this guy's
[02:14:57] faceelift, too. He looks creepy. I can
[02:15:00] >> like what in the Kenneth Copeland is
[02:15:02] going on here? You know that like
[02:15:03] >> that's exactly who just popped into my
[02:15:05] brain. [laughter]
[02:15:06] >> Yeah, that's what Yeah,
[02:15:07] >> you would agree with me that we can't
[02:15:10] trust what Pete Newman says or has said
[02:15:15] about the number of victims or the
[02:15:18] extent of the contact with individual
[02:15:21] victims.
[02:15:22] >> It's it's hard to know what to trust and
[02:15:24] what not to trust.
[02:15:25] >> Well, do you trust him at all?
[02:15:31] I trust him at all.
[02:15:34] When he sent us a list,
[02:15:37] um I believe there was a list of
[02:15:42] approximately
[02:15:44] approximately 18 or 19 names.
[02:15:47] >> 22, I think.
[02:15:48] >> Yeah. Okay. That list and I I forget the
[02:15:51] exact date of that list. It was
[02:15:54] >> the first list. the first list that
[02:15:58] Newman sent you
[02:15:59] >> sent to Well, there was I'm I'm
[02:16:00] referring to a list that he sent to
[02:16:02] Chris Cooper,
[02:16:03] >> right?
[02:16:03] >> And I can't tell you the date,
[02:16:05] >> but um I talked to a number of those
[02:16:11] parents of those victims and have
[02:16:13] subsequently uh had conversations with a
[02:16:16] number of the children of those. And it
[02:16:20] was consistent uh with the list that
[02:16:23] there were two or three boys that he
[02:16:25] said he had touched on the list. That
[02:16:27] was consistent. There was um
[02:16:32] 16ish boys that he said on the list that
[02:16:34] he hadn't touched and that has been
[02:16:37] consistent. So there was there's a
[02:16:39] degree of trust there that that that in
[02:16:42] investigating that particular list.
[02:16:44] >> Yeah. He's in deposition saying things
[02:16:46] like, "We didn't uh fire Pete because
[02:16:50] these incidents of nudity were like two
[02:16:53] drops in a cascade of applause and
[02:16:55] praise."
[02:16:58] And all the victims we when we're
[02:17:00] watching these deposition tapes, we're
[02:17:01] like, "Those two drops, those are
[02:17:03] poison. That poison the whole well or
[02:17:06] waterfall, whatever your metaphor is."
[02:17:07] Like
[02:17:10] I'm pretty sure scripture says like if
[02:17:13] one sheep goes missing and you've got
[02:17:14] 99, you go after the one lost sheep.
[02:17:16] Like go after those drops of water,
[02:17:18] those poisonous drops of water that most
[02:17:20] people would call felony acts instead of
[02:17:23] focusing on the applause of praise and
[02:17:24] money coming in through this rain maker
[02:17:26] director who's obviously naked with kids
[02:17:29] all the time because you're writing
[02:17:30] contracts to say stop spending so much
[02:17:32] time naked with kids. You're like
[02:17:34] revising his HR document to say no more
[02:17:37] one-on-one sleepovers. Spend more time
[02:17:40] with your wife Katie, less inordinate
[02:17:43] amount time with kids. Like,
[02:17:46] it's unbelievable. And this is out
[02:17:49] there. So, since the dispatch articles
[02:17:50] dropped in 2021,
[02:17:52] >> where's this guy in prison?
[02:17:53] >> Jefferson City Correctional Center.
[02:17:56] >> How is he not [ __ ] dead?
[02:17:59] Usually these guys get killed in prison.
[02:18:01] >> Who's protecting him?
[02:18:05] [ __ ] man. You're right.
[02:18:13] Oh, and I had to protest his parole um
[02:18:17] in 2024. So, here's some Missouri math.
[02:18:21] Three life terms
[02:18:23] and he was up for parole after serving
[02:18:25] 15 years
[02:18:28] because in Missouri, a life sentence is
[02:18:30] 30 years.
[02:18:32] So that's kind of weird. I'm 38. I've
[02:18:34] outlived my lifespan.
[02:18:36] Then he had three of those three 30-year
[02:18:40] term. So 90 years of prison, but under
[02:18:43] the current criminal code in Missouri,
[02:18:44] you're up for parole after serving half
[02:18:46] of one life term, which is 15 years. And
[02:18:48] then you're up for parole again every 1
[02:18:50] to 5 years after that first hearing. So
[02:18:53] I set up a website, protestparole.com,
[02:18:56] and we got I mean, his opposition file
[02:18:59] has to be this thick. We got thousands
[02:19:01] of letters and emails sent in to the uh
[02:19:03] victim specialist office and uh
[02:19:07] then he had his hearing and he started
[02:19:09] it by I've spent a lot of time in jail
[02:19:12] counting my victims. It was only 55.
[02:19:18] Like that was going to be a good look
[02:19:19] for him. only 55 and we know it's
[02:19:22] thousand you know it's like
[02:19:25] uh and like if you count I I don't
[02:19:29] consider myself uh well I guess I am a
[02:19:32] Canuck victim but not a direct victim
[02:19:35] like my brother was but if you start
[02:19:38] counting the family members of these
[02:19:39] victims
[02:19:41] that might be hundreds of thousands of
[02:19:43] people whose lives have been shattered
[02:19:44] by this
[02:19:46] volcanic like Pete plus the 70 plus
[02:19:48] other pers we know about
[02:19:50] times all the ones we don't know about
[02:19:53] and then the collateral damage in these
[02:19:55] families and our laws protect these
[02:19:58] institutions and these predators
[02:20:03] and they can walk I mean we just posted
[02:20:06] a new perpetrator on our on facts about
[02:20:08] kanak uh yesterday cuz she got out of
[02:20:11] prison after 3 years
[02:20:14] so that's a woman on so we know female
[02:20:18] on female crime crime, male on female,
[02:20:21] male on male, obviously my brother's
[02:20:23] story.
[02:20:25] Um,
[02:20:26] so it's the culture of we only care
[02:20:31] about counting the souls we've saved,
[02:20:32] not the kids who get get harmed along
[02:20:34] the way.
[02:20:39] We talked to Joe White about it. I mean,
[02:20:41] we've gotten him on a couple phone calls
[02:20:42] and it's like he just starts weeping and
[02:20:44] playing the victim himself.
[02:20:48] Do you know Andy Fzella by chance?
[02:20:50] >> No. Should I?
[02:20:52] >> You should probably know him.
[02:20:54] He's uh he owns this big supplement
[02:20:56] company called First Form. He's a good
[02:20:58] friend of mine. He's in Missouri. He's
[02:21:00] in St. Louis. I know he's got some deep
[02:21:03] connections.
[02:21:05] I'll introduce you.
[02:21:07] >> I'd love that.
[02:21:09] >> And he's not [ __ ] scared of anything.
[02:21:15] >> I'll talk to anyone who will listen.
[02:21:20] I I just
[02:21:24] >> at one point I got connected with uh
[02:21:27] James O'Keefe at Project Veritas and
[02:21:30] then so they were on this like they were
[02:21:33] doing it. I had several Zoom calls and
[02:21:35] then when I had breakfast with James in
[02:21:38] Dallas one time, uh I explained the
[02:21:41] summer camp situation. He goes, "I've
[02:21:42] never He was like, Elizabeth, I've never
[02:21:44] thought about this.
[02:21:46] Camps are the perfect places to
[02:21:48] indoctrinate children.
[02:21:50] Like, yes, this American summer camp
[02:21:52] tradition is send your kids off into the
[02:21:56] woods for a month with strangers
[02:21:58] and hope they come back in one piece,
[02:22:01] but parents don't have a lot of insight.
[02:22:03] I mean, they could have gone to the camp
[02:22:04] themselves, but you don't get a lot of
[02:22:06] communication. You don't have a lot of
[02:22:08] insight into what they're teaching your
[02:22:10] kids. you know, that like whole culture
[02:22:13] situation at Canic especially alarming
[02:22:15] if you're there for a month. Like I
[02:22:17] would usually only go for one or two
[02:22:18] weeks. Um
[02:22:21] Trey went for a month. Um
[02:22:24] but yeah, so Project Veritoss was like,
[02:22:27] "This is so messed up. Like, how can we
[02:22:30] help?"
[02:22:32] and I briefed them and um then James
[02:22:37] left Project Veraritoss and it was a new
[02:22:39] leadership and something and like I
[02:22:41] followed up and followed up and followed
[02:22:42] up and I don't think
[02:22:44] >> Yeah, it's Yeah, I actually we were
[02:22:46] teaming up with Project Veraritoss the
[02:22:48] first time I interviewed Ryan about all
[02:22:49] of that stuff and they were we actually
[02:22:51] we actually held the episode to release
[02:22:54] it at the same time cuz they had a bunch
[02:22:56] of stuff too and then they backed out so
[02:22:58] it was just me and Ryan.
[02:23:02] Yeah, same.
[02:23:03] >> The only ones talking about this [ __ ]
[02:23:04] >> Yeah. Well,
[02:23:08] new bestie. Thanks for caring.
[02:23:10] >> Yeah. Well,
[02:23:12] I I just That's what I I just How could
[02:23:15] you not?
[02:23:16] >> Everyone will tell you they care about
[02:23:17] child sexual abuse and then when it when
[02:23:22] the rubber meets the road, they don't
[02:23:25] they don't want to do it.
[02:23:27] >> These people give a [ __ ] I just told
[02:23:29] you the last time when we brought up
[02:23:31] Roblox, they took a $6 billion haircut
[02:23:33] in one week and I quit. I quit tracking
[02:23:36] it after that. We'll throw the graph up.
[02:23:38] The day the day we released that
[02:23:40] episode, it went
[02:23:43] >> lost 6 billion in one week.
[02:23:45] >> Good. Because that's how you have to do
[02:23:47] it. You have to hurt them where it
[02:23:48] hurts. And it's they care about the
[02:23:50] bottom line.
[02:23:50] >> Unfortunately, it's ridiculous that like
[02:23:52] that's that's the win. Oh yeah. How many
[02:23:55] kids have been [ __ ] up because of that
[02:23:56] game? How many kids are dead? How many
[02:23:59] kids have carved [ __ ] into their
[02:24:00] forehead because of [ __ ] roadblocks?
[02:24:03] And our win is like, "Oh, yeah, we took
[02:24:04] six billion from them." Well, at least
[02:24:07] they don't have to run around with [ __ ]
[02:24:09] carved in their [ __ ] forehead
[02:24:11] everywhere they go.
[02:24:12] >> Have you seen I Yeah,
[02:24:14] >> that's a 764 satanic cult [ __ ]
[02:24:17] >> Well, that's a Kanuk victim has that in
[02:24:19] her leg.
[02:24:21] >> What?
[02:24:22] >> Mhm.
[02:24:23] It was the day they were doing that kind
[02:24:25] of this satanic ritual.
[02:24:28] I mean, it all is, right? It all all
[02:24:30] that sexual abuse is, but that's
[02:24:34] that's a a visible mark.
[02:24:39] >> Yeah. I didn't know if I believed in all
[02:24:41] of that stuff. And then I met um someone
[02:24:43] who ran the office for victims of crime,
[02:24:46] OBC,
[02:24:48] and he put me in touch with uh my PIs
[02:24:52] and um
[02:24:54] he had just talked to some survivors of
[02:24:57] SR and uh I was like, well, is that
[02:25:01] real? Like, you know, I'm still trying
[02:25:03] to process all of that at this point.
[02:25:05] I'm like, I've heard this from
[02:25:08] therapists over and over again. And he
[02:25:11] was like, Elizabeth, I didn't I didn't
[02:25:13] think that was real until I started
[02:25:16] meeting all these survivors.
[02:25:18] And he's like, I just met with one in
[02:25:20] Missouri. Like, again, what the Missouri
[02:25:22] is going on? And um and she had no legs.
[02:25:27] They they'd cut off her legs.
[02:25:29] >> They they cut off her legs. Where was
[02:25:32] she from?
[02:25:33] >> Missouri. What I mean what from this
[02:25:37] >> not no not a kanak victim like just a
[02:25:39] satanic ritualistic abuse victim. And so
[02:25:42] this guy he was like I didn't I thought
[02:25:45] it was like you know it's very dark and
[02:25:48] he's seen a lot of darkness. Um and he
[02:25:52] was skeptical until he started meeting
[02:25:54] these victims
[02:25:56] and he's like it's very real. I've
[02:25:58] talked to enough of them now to be
[02:25:59] convinced. And I was like, "Well, here's
[02:26:03] what I know about what happened to
[02:26:05] Trey." And then there's these other
[02:26:08] victims like the things carved in their
[02:26:09] leg and stuff. I'm like,
[02:26:10] >> "This is this is this commonality on a
[02:26:13] can of cut victims to have
[02:26:16] >> the the carving those words that you
[02:26:20] mentioned. Uh I've seen it once
[02:26:23] >> um physically. I mean personally seen it
[02:26:25] once. um
[02:26:28] traded other things to self harm, but
[02:26:30] not that. Um but yeah, I've seen more.
[02:26:34] >> This was their own. I mean, I know it
[02:26:37] all stems from something, so I don't
[02:26:38] want to take away from that. What I'm
[02:26:42] talking about is a 764, the the the the
[02:26:45] the
[02:26:47] perpetrator would have the victim carve
[02:26:50] that into them.
[02:26:51] >> Mhm.
[02:26:52] >> We're talking about the same [ __ ]
[02:26:54] >> Yeah. And you know like I was saying
[02:26:56] earlier the playbook is the play you
[02:26:58] start wondering when you look at you
[02:26:59] meet with or talk to Catholic survivors
[02:27:03] SBC victims you know kanek
[02:27:07] these institutional situations.
[02:27:10] Um you're like what book are they all
[02:27:13] reading cuz it's the the patterns across
[02:27:16] these institutions.
[02:27:18] >> Well we we uncovered that a couple weeks
[02:27:20] ago too that I mean there's there are I
[02:27:22] mean you've already brought it up. I
[02:27:23] can't remember if it was on the break or
[02:27:25] if it was on uh right here, but I mean
[02:27:29] there there's manuals everywhere on how
[02:27:32] to do it.
[02:27:33] >> Yeah.
[02:27:34] >> Playbook.
[02:27:35] >> I mean there's tons of manuals.
[02:27:38] >> Yeah. No, like so what I showed you in
[02:27:41] Rick Brashler's uh PowerPoint, he's like
[02:27:44] here's the literal book on how to find
[02:27:47] children and abuse them.
[02:27:50] And now that there's so much online, you
[02:27:52] don't need the physical book anymore.
[02:27:54] It's just these chat rooms and stuff.
[02:27:56] >> Yeah.
[02:27:58] >> But the fact that Pete Newman's devices
[02:28:00] were never investigated for child sexual
[02:28:02] abuse material
[02:28:04] that keeps me up at night. Uh the fact
[02:28:07] that
[02:28:08] >> it's a [ __ ] cover up.
[02:28:10] >> Oh,
[02:28:10] >> what else? I mean,
[02:28:12] >> so literally they hired being a
[02:28:14] corporate communications major. Uh we
[02:28:17] had this firm, a huge PR firm, one of
[02:28:20] the largest in the world. They would
[02:28:23] send someone in as like guest lecturers
[02:28:24] in our classes. And there's one on
[02:28:26] crisis communications.
[02:28:28] And then I noticed when I started going
[02:28:30] back and digging into all this Pete
[02:28:32] Newman stuff in the cover up, I couldn't
[02:28:34] find anything mentioned about Pete
[02:28:36] Newman as it associated it with Canak
[02:28:38] until like the ninth page of Google
[02:28:40] search results. So I'm like this,
[02:28:42] they've spent millions on this cover up,
[02:28:43] right? Like I just knew that from my
[02:28:45] background. And then the spokesperson
[02:28:48] for Canac
[02:28:50] was his name and I Googled it and he was
[02:28:53] the head of crisis for the Americas for
[02:28:56] this large PR firm. And uh now he like
[02:29:02] works for the Fed somewhere. But they
[02:29:05] hired the best crisis comm's firm and
[02:29:07] team in the country to cover this up.
[02:29:10] And I my team and I have like
[02:29:13] calculated a probably like $2 million
[02:29:16] budget for this crisis pure cover up.
[02:29:18] And now what I know they're offering
[02:29:20] these lobbyists to oppose my bills like
[02:29:21] tra law and so reform and camp safety.
[02:29:25] Um they are telling us their budget.
[02:29:30] Like they offered that DC lobbyist 250k.
[02:29:33] They offered more to the Austin lobbyist
[02:29:35] and it's like okay we'll just keep a
[02:29:37] spreadsheet going on how much money
[02:29:39] you're willing to spend against me on
[02:29:40] passing these child protection laws.
[02:29:42] Good [ __ ] luck when this comes out.
[02:29:45] You can't buy this kind of PR.
[02:29:48] >> Well, I'm grateful for the opportunity.
[02:29:50] >> Those people. [laughter]
[02:29:52] >> I mean, yeah, it's um
[02:29:57] it's been a really eyeopening
[02:30:01] six years.
[02:30:02] >> This [ __ ] is going to send it's going to
[02:30:05] go big. I [ __ ] know. I just can feel
[02:30:08] it. Mhm.
[02:30:09] >> People are going to be pissed.
[02:30:12] I hope so because this is righteous
[02:30:14] anger. This is what righteous anger is
[02:30:18] for.
[02:30:19] We need to be pissed about the right
[02:30:21] things. We need to be uh enraged
[02:30:26] by what's happening at Canak and these
[02:30:29] other camps. I mean, facts about Canak
[02:30:32] is a whistleblower website that a bunch
[02:30:34] of survivors pulled together. A Canuck
[02:30:36] survivor put together our social media
[02:30:38] because he does that for work. And um
[02:30:41] you know the survivor army is growing
[02:30:44] and they're gaining their voices and now
[02:30:45] they can legally talk at least the ones
[02:30:47] with Texas cases. Uh we just filed it in
[02:30:50] Alabama trade laws filed in Alabama to
[02:30:52] end NDAs and child sexual abuse and
[02:30:54] trafficking cases in Alabama. We're
[02:30:55] filing it in uh Oklahoma alongside
[02:30:58] statute of limitations reform. Um and
[02:31:03] yeah, if your audience wants to bring
[02:31:05] this to their state, let's go.
[02:31:07] >> They're going to want to. And federally,
[02:31:09] I just got word this morning that
[02:31:11] Senator Ted Cruz, my senator from Texas,
[02:31:14] he is gonna sponsor Trey's law
[02:31:15] federally.
[02:31:16] >> That's awesome.
[02:31:17] >> Yeah. And he's going to try to do it
[02:31:19] with uh Senator Jill Brand. She carried
[02:31:21] the Speak Out Act, so she's very
[02:31:23] familiar with this NDA issue. Um and so,
[02:31:28] >> who's your congressman?
[02:31:29] >> Um we are talking to several a lot of
[02:31:32] them want it. Um Congressman Isa's
[02:31:35] office was really interested in this.
[02:31:37] He's a Republican out of California.
[02:31:39] California has a version of Trey's law
[02:31:41] that was part of a broader crime victims
[02:31:42] act. And so we don't need to pass Tre's
[02:31:45] law in California. They've already
[02:31:47] covered this base. Um but it's only
[02:31:50] Tennessee go Tennessee 2019 that there
[02:31:53] was a plaintiff's attorney, a Democrat,
[02:31:55] and a very Republican legislature who
[02:31:58] said this is evil and he he's deceased
[02:32:00] now. But, uh, Representative Beck in
[02:32:04] Tennessee, uh, it's just two, it's like
[02:32:07] two lines, one sentence that NDAs and
[02:32:10] child sexual abuse and trafficking cases
[02:32:11] should be void and uninforceable as
[02:32:13] against the public interest of the
[02:32:14] state.
[02:32:16] There was no hearing. They like there's
[02:32:19] no testimony in the committee,
[02:32:21] unanimous, zero no votes. And that Yeah.
[02:32:25] So that was 2019. And so anyone under an
[02:32:27] NDA in Tennessee since 2019 void and
[02:32:29] uninforceable
[02:32:31] and you have to change the law because
[02:32:33] the lawyers don't even know that's a law
[02:32:34] sometimes. But so the lawyers are going
[02:32:37] to keep putting victims under NDAs. So
[02:32:38] you have to change the law so then the
[02:32:40] victim can realize or they can find a
[02:32:42] different attorney who tells them
[02:32:44] >> you were put under NDA in 2020 in
[02:32:46] Tennessee. It's void and uninforceable
[02:32:47] because of this 2019 law.
[02:32:50] And then um Alabama uh I'm from a big
[02:32:54] roll tide family. My grandpa didn't miss
[02:32:57] a game his entire life. And uh
[02:33:02] that came about because I have a ton of
[02:33:05] cousins in uh Walker County, my mom's
[02:33:08] side of the family. And um they were
[02:33:12] following on Facebook like this whole
[02:33:13] trees law journey. And then out of the
[02:33:16] blue, I get a text from a representative
[02:33:18] in that area. He's like, "Your cousin
[02:33:20] told me about what you're doing. I would
[02:33:21] love the honor of bringing this to
[02:33:23] Alabama."
[02:33:24] And
[02:33:25] >> that's awesome.
[02:33:26] >> Like, okay, there are good people in the
[02:33:28] world. And um then two weeks later, he
[02:33:31] texted me again. He's like, I'm a
[02:33:32] senator now. And I'm like, what's going
[02:33:35] on in Alabama? There's like a special
[02:33:37] election or something. So that's Senator
[02:33:39] Matt Woods now. He's standing with
[02:33:41] survivors in Alabama. He just pre-filed
[02:33:43] Trey's law. And our house rep is David
[02:33:45] Faulner, who's carrying Trey's law and
[02:33:47] our camp safety bill in honor of Sarah
[02:33:48] Marsh, one of the girls who died in Camp
[02:33:50] Mystic. She was uh from Birmingham.
[02:33:53] >> Nice. And um
[02:33:55] yeah, in Oklahoma we're talking to the
[02:33:57] speaker's top council, Representative
[02:33:59] Kennedy. And um and then Ted Cruz's team
[02:34:03] at the federal level. Schmidt's office
[02:34:05] is willing to be helpful because Kanak's
[02:34:07] in uh Senator Schmidt's state. Um,
[02:34:11] and then I got to know uh, Senator
[02:34:14] Ashley Moody when she was attorney
[02:34:16] general of uh, Florida. And we were on a
[02:34:19] panel together at this uh, event for the
[02:34:22] policy circle talking about safeguarding
[02:34:25] innocents. And when she was AG of
[02:34:27] Florida, she had an over 90% success
[02:34:30] rate in prosecuting trafficking cases.
[02:34:32] >> Also a mom like young.
[02:34:35] >> So she was appointed Marco Rubio's seat.
[02:34:37] So, she's Senator Ashley Moody now. Um,
[02:34:40] and so I'm keeping her team uh up to
[02:34:43] speed with what we're trying to do
[02:34:45] because she cares about this stuff. And
[02:34:47] um then Senator Katie Brit's office,
[02:34:50] they've been supportive and we'll have
[02:34:52] the Alabama tie-in after this session.
[02:34:54] >> Did you say Steve Toth helped you when
[02:34:56] he was in Congress?
[02:34:58] So, yeah, he's a Texas state rep running
[02:35:01] for Congress and um he's running for
[02:35:05] Crrenshaw's seat, actually. And um
[02:35:08] >> is Crunchaw helping you?
[02:35:09] >> Did you help out?
[02:35:11] >> Not No.
[02:35:12] >> Did you reach out to him?
[02:35:14] >> No,
[02:35:14] >> you didn't.
[02:35:15] >> No,
[02:35:17] you probably should.
[02:35:21] >> I'll uh I'll get right on that. But tell
[02:35:23] he's a good guy because he stood with
[02:35:26] Rep. bleach on the House floor when uh
[02:35:29] the House was going to vote on Trey's
[02:35:31] law and
[02:35:33] uh
[02:35:35] I couldn't be there in Austin for some
[02:35:37] reason. So I was watching it like on on
[02:35:39] my laptop and you can see like right
[02:35:42] there next to Jeff Leech is Steve Toth
[02:35:46] and he has this look of fury on his face
[02:35:49] as Jeff's re doing the bill outlay which
[02:35:51] is basically like saying I'll send you
[02:35:54] the clip. I mean, it's super powerful.
[02:35:55] And then Mitch Little had some powerful
[02:35:56] comments, too. But in certain situations
[02:35:59] when a bill's presented and people are
[02:36:01] passionate about it, if even if it's not
[02:36:04] their bill, they'll go up there and
[02:36:05] stand with the bill sponsor who's
[02:36:07] presenting it. And Todd was like right
[02:36:10] there in the camera. Um,
[02:36:12] >> I would bet Crenshaw would bend over
[02:36:15] [ __ ] backwards to help you right now
[02:36:17] because from what I've heard, he could
[02:36:19] really use a win. M
[02:36:22] >> and he can't help you if he doesn't know
[02:36:24] about it.
[02:36:25] >> Does he watch your show?
[02:36:27] >> I don't know. I've heard he does.
[02:36:30] >> Yeah, we'll uh give him a visit.
[02:36:33] >> I'll put you in touch with his
[02:36:34] attorneys.
[02:36:35] >> Thanks.
[02:36:38] [gasps]
[02:36:39] [sighs] Yeah, I mean
[02:36:42] I think this is a slam dunk for anyone
[02:36:44] who wants to do something for kids right
[02:36:46] now because the Epstein files aren't
[02:36:48] going anywhere at the moment. So,
[02:36:49] >> not a whole lot of people in government
[02:36:51] want to help.
[02:36:52] >> Not a whole lot of momentum on that.
[02:36:54] >> A lot of people want to help pedophiles.
[02:36:56] Not very many people want to help kid
[02:36:57] victims,
[02:36:58] >> but I haven't come across one elected
[02:37:01] official who thinks kids should be
[02:37:04] silenced contractually after surviving
[02:37:06] sexual assault or trafficking.
[02:37:09] >> It's a pretty hard thing to be against.
[02:37:11] >> That's good to hear.
[02:37:19] >> [clears throat]
[02:37:21] >> There's a lot more behind the scenes on
[02:37:22] that Texas bill uh if you want to talk
[02:37:25] about it, but um we landed the plane and
[02:37:30] victims have their voices back. And the
[02:37:32] most poignant memory in this work from
[02:37:35] last year was when I got to tell that
[02:37:37] student of Angela Paxton, Senator
[02:37:39] Paxton's former student,
[02:37:43] September 1st,
[02:37:45] two words,
[02:37:47] be free.
[02:37:50] >> I love that
[02:37:51] >> he's free.
[02:37:54] Elizabeth, what does
[02:37:59] you have to accomplish to move on with
[02:38:01] your life?
[02:38:07] I just think when you lose someone under
[02:38:10] these circumstances and crimes are
[02:38:12] involved,
[02:38:16] you have to understand the issue first
[02:38:18] of all. figure out how to prevent it
[02:38:21] from happening to others because I hold
[02:38:24] this information now. Uh my brother's
[02:38:28] not alive to talk about it. So, I have
[02:38:30] to talk about it. And now I work with a
[02:38:34] lot of other survivors who are ready and
[02:38:36] willing to talk about it.
[02:38:38] And as long as they need me, I'm here.
[02:38:41] And I don't know what that looks like.
[02:38:43] I've thought about I told you my faith
[02:38:45] was shattered. like deconstructed it,
[02:38:47] reconstructed like I I've thought about
[02:38:49] going to seminary. I've thought about
[02:38:50] going to law school.
[02:38:53] And then I realized, you know, and
[02:38:55] helping pass these four laws in one
[02:38:56] year. I'm probably best served uh a best
[02:39:01] service to others if I keep advocating
[02:39:04] with them for them.
[02:39:06] Sometimes they need a voice. Sometimes
[02:39:08] they just need a mic. You know, Trey
[02:39:10] doesn't have a voice right now. Um,
[02:39:13] since my brother died,
[02:39:16] I've been trying to be his voice. Then
[02:39:18] there are other survivors who have just
[02:39:20] been silenced and suffering in the
[02:39:23] shadows and um having them testify at a
[02:39:27] hearing for a lot of them is so healing.
[02:39:31] So these hearings are healing for them.
[02:39:34] Um sometimes I'm just the first person
[02:39:36] they've ever disclosed their abuse to
[02:39:38] and I just hold that as sacred. Like
[02:39:41] it's holy ground when a survivor
[02:39:43] discloses their abuse to you.
[02:39:45] >> Yeah.
[02:39:46] >> Yeah. This hair is full of dry shampoo
[02:39:49] and secrets
[02:39:51] because that I will not uh someone
[02:39:54] trusts me with that.
[02:39:56] I consider it sacred and holy. And then
[02:39:59] sometimes they need help. They need um
[02:40:03] they might need counseling. They might
[02:40:05] need rehab.
[02:40:07] Um they might just need someone to hold
[02:40:09] their story with them.
[02:40:11] and they might need to connect with
[02:40:13] other survivors. And now there's this
[02:40:16] whole community of Kanekuck survivors
[02:40:19] and other survivors of camp abuse and
[02:40:21] negligence
[02:40:23] um who are finding healing in community.
[02:40:26] So um I haven't gotten that far to
[02:40:32] to ask myself like what do I need to
[02:40:34] move on because I don't think you ever
[02:40:35] move on from loss. I think you move
[02:40:38] forward.
[02:40:39] And I'm of the strong opinion that as
[02:40:43] Christians, we're not supposed to just
[02:40:44] sit here and wait on heaven to happen.
[02:40:47] We are called to bring heaven to earth.
[02:40:51] And that's what I'll spend the rest of
[02:40:52] my life doing is trying to bring more of
[02:40:55] heaven to earth. More truth, more peace,
[02:40:58] healing, transparency.
[02:41:01] >> You need a break? All right, let's take
[02:41:03] a break.
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[02:43:18] All right, Elizabeth, we're back from
[02:43:19] the break. But hey, on the break, you
[02:43:22] know, we were having a little chat. I
[02:43:24] didn't know you like firearms.
[02:43:26] >> Yeah, shout out to the Texas Gun
[02:43:28] Experience. I was just shooting out
[02:43:29] there.
[02:43:29] >> Yeah, the Texas I can only imagine what
[02:43:31] goes on in the Texas Gun Experience.
[02:43:34] But anyways, maybe the next time you go
[02:43:36] to the Texas Gun Experience, you can
[02:43:38] take this one in
[02:43:39] >> for real. Oh [clears throat] my gosh.
[02:43:41] Thank you.
[02:43:42] >> You don't even know what it is
[02:43:43] >> with the red dot.
[02:43:46] Can I open it like Christmas morning?
[02:43:48] Thank you.
[02:43:55] >> Hell yeah.
[02:43:56] >> There you go. So, I mean,
[02:44:01] after after interviewing you for
[02:44:03] whatever we've gone now, 2 and 1/2
[02:44:04] hours, 3 hours maybe, you got a lot of
[02:44:07] enemies. So,
[02:44:08] >> [laughter]
[02:44:08] >> uh you're going to need uh something to
[02:44:11] protect yourself. So,
[02:44:12] >> this is awesome.
[02:44:13] >> Yeah. So, that's the Sig P365 Legion
[02:44:17] with the red dot that you were going on
[02:44:19] about. And uh that is their latest. You
[02:44:21] want to hold it up?
[02:44:22] >> I was going to say magazine's not in it.
[02:44:24] >> Magazine's not in it. It's safe. Holds
[02:44:26] 17 rounds plus one in the pipe. So, 18
[02:44:29] rounds. It's got the red dot. It's all
[02:44:31] metal.
[02:44:32] >> Obsessed. Thank you.
[02:44:33] >> That is the
[02:44:35] legitimately, I'm not just saying this,
[02:44:37] you're not going to get a better
[02:44:38] everyday carry in the subp compact
[02:44:41] category than that. I'm so excited. My
[02:44:43] husband's also going to be so thrilled.
[02:44:45] >> He'll probably be jealous.
[02:44:46] >> He'll be very jealous
[02:44:47] >> cuz you're rocking a Hellcat now.
[02:44:48] >> Yeah.
[02:44:49] >> Yeah. That
[02:44:51] >> I like that cuz it you don't have to
[02:44:52] deal with the safety. It's like in the
[02:44:54] trigger, but
[02:44:55] >> you'll like that better.
[02:44:56] >> I already do. I like how it fits my I
[02:44:58] have tiny hands.
[02:44:59] >> We'll pop a couple rounds off at the
[02:45:00] end.
[02:45:00] >> Okay, perfect.
[02:45:01] >> Before you head back.
[02:45:02] >> Yeah, we deserve that. This is a hard
[02:45:03] topic.
[02:45:04] >> Yeah.
[02:45:05] >> Thank you.
[02:45:05] >> You're You're [laughter] welcome.
[02:45:08] [clears throat]
[02:45:09] >> That's This is amazing. Thank you.
[02:45:10] >> You're welcome.
[02:45:12] Yeah, we're going to piss off a lot of
[02:45:14] pedophiles.
[02:45:19] >> Uh, we're also going to piss off a lot
[02:45:20] of people at Cam Cana Cook.
[02:45:23] >> Yeah. Well, one and the same.
[02:45:25] >> Yeah, [laughter] good. Good point. So,
[02:45:28] what are what are we what are we diving
[02:45:30] into next?
[02:45:31] >> Well, thank you for
[02:45:33] >> brought up a chart on the break.
[02:45:35] >> Oh, yeah. Well, that was just chitchat,
[02:45:36] but um I did want to show Yeah. So, this
[02:45:40] was just like side chatting. Um, but I
[02:45:44] think the best visual to map out the
[02:45:46] whole Canak situation I shared
[02:45:49] is this network map. So, my team of PIs,
[02:45:52] you know, whenever we're digging into
[02:45:54] something, we want to put it in a format
[02:45:55] that law enforcement can easily read and
[02:45:57] understand. Um, but this is how big the
[02:46:00] web is. It's like every entity that Joe
[02:46:03] White or Canak Ministries has a hand in,
[02:46:06] you can see the little handcuff icon.
[02:46:08] Um, and we have a separate page that
[02:46:10] outlines the exact charges for those
[02:46:12] handcuffs, but
[02:46:13] >> we'll put that on screen.
[02:46:14] >> Yeah, it's just it's not normal. So,
[02:46:17] that's
[02:46:18] >> Yeah, that's the
[02:46:20] >> So, each one of these is a different
[02:46:22] business or LLC or what what what exact
[02:46:26] these are.
[02:46:26] >> So, they're LLC's or ministries or
[02:46:29] churches he's on the board like things
[02:46:31] he's affiliated with. And um you can't
[02:46:35] find one that doesn't have some sort of
[02:46:37] >> that's not connected to the handcuffs,
[02:46:39] >> sexual exploitation of children,
[02:46:41] >> man.
[02:46:46] >> So when you don't hold predators
[02:46:49] accountable the first time you see a
[02:46:51] flag, you attract bad actors to your
[02:46:55] enterprises. And that's a mess. And I
[02:46:58] think with Joe White, I don't know what
[02:47:00] his deal is, but I assume [snorts] uh
[02:47:03] it's a lot darker than just a culture of
[02:47:06] complacency.
[02:47:08] But in general, and what I wanted to
[02:47:09] talk to you about before we go, shoot,
[02:47:12] is this culture of complacency is a camp
[02:47:15] industry problem. It's industrywide.
[02:47:18] So,
[02:47:20] you know, I was doing this Canak stuff
[02:47:22] since 2021,
[02:47:25] trying to understand what happened to my
[02:47:26] brother, connecting with all these
[02:47:28] victims, and then I started looking at,
[02:47:31] okay, is Canuck an outlier or is this
[02:47:33] the norm? And I started getting tips
[02:47:37] from all over the country, um, including
[02:47:41] other camps, many in Texas, who have
[02:47:44] victims under NDAs. So word starts
[02:47:46] getting out, especially as I started
[02:47:48] testifying in state legislatures. Uh you
[02:47:52] know, when you're testifying at a
[02:47:54] hearing, that's public and anyone can
[02:47:56] watch it. Um and so I started reaching
[02:47:59] more of the masses that way. And um then
[02:48:04] I'd get outreach from random people
[02:48:06] about camps or organized crime within
[02:48:09] churches and cults. [snorts] oftentimes
[02:48:11] with IRS church status. We've got to
[02:48:13] stop giving church status to cults and
[02:48:17] that's an IRS issue on my list of things
[02:48:20] to discuss with uh the religion business
[02:48:22] guys you've had on
[02:48:23] >> Nathan.
[02:48:24] >> Yeah, Nathan's doing really good work uh
[02:48:27] in the name of Christ to get rid of this
[02:48:29] corruption in the church. And um I'm
[02:48:32] actually I'm going to be shooting season
[02:48:34] two with them uh in a few days. We're
[02:48:36] going to start that.
[02:48:37] >> Right on.
[02:48:38] >> Yeah. Um, they also have zero chill
[02:48:41] about child abuse in the name of Jesus.
[02:48:43] So that's cool. I always love that. Um,
[02:48:46] but so we figured out that the camp
[02:48:50] industry nationally in the US it's a
[02:48:52] it's an American tradition. I don't know
[02:48:54] if it was where you grew up, but in my
[02:48:56] [snorts] circles like everyone went to
[02:48:57] summer camp. And some of them are just a
[02:49:00] couple weeks, some of them are a month
[02:49:02] long. And it's a $70 billion industry.
[02:49:07] About 26 million people uh are involved
[02:49:09] in summer camps every year in the US.
[02:49:13] And I think there's so many positives to
[02:49:15] that, right? It's like get your kids off
[02:49:17] their devices and have them meet new
[02:49:20] friends from other places. Um get out in
[02:49:24] nature. Like all of that is good stuff,
[02:49:26] right? But for so long, parents have not
[02:49:29] asked questions. And that's why I wanted
[02:49:31] to talk about this because you started
[02:49:32] this conversation about what do parents
[02:49:35] need to know and this is so important
[02:49:36] for parents to know that the camp
[02:49:38] industry is completely underregulated
[02:49:40] and some states completely unregulated.
[02:49:44] So 15 states don't even require criminal
[02:49:46] background checks on summer camp staff.
[02:49:48] Okay, that's not even how you catch the
[02:49:50] bad guys. That's just a baseline, right?
[02:49:52] To make sure you're not hiring people
[02:49:54] with a record. Hello,
[02:49:55] >> dude. Like how how can
[02:49:58] >> it's common sense. How can you run a
[02:49:59] business around children and not run a
[02:50:01] background check?
[02:50:02] >> Yeah. So, what I found is unless camps
[02:50:05] are regulated and there's laws that
[02:50:07] force that, they don't because they are
[02:50:09] saving cost. And
[02:50:10] >> that's what I was just So, they are
[02:50:12] looking for the lowest common
[02:50:14] denominator to watch your kids. Correct.
[02:50:16] The person that will take the least
[02:50:18] amount of payment.
[02:50:20] >> They don't give a [ __ ]
[02:50:21] >> No.
[02:50:22] >> It's just a It's just a body.
[02:50:23] >> Yeah. And a lot of these camps I
[02:50:25] mentioned earlier are for-profit camps.
[02:50:27] And so they see kids as a commodity,
[02:50:28] right? They want to recruit as many
[02:50:30] campers as possible and keep costs as
[02:50:32] low as possible. And that's their family
[02:50:34] business.
[02:50:36] Man,
[02:50:37] >> doesn't anybody like
[02:50:40] advertise the quality of the counselors
[02:50:43] that they hire or any of that [ __ ] I
[02:50:45] mean
[02:50:47] >> one would think that they would want to
[02:50:51] be um you know hold a high standard and
[02:50:54] be an example of proper hiring practices
[02:50:57] and um you know going above and beyond
[02:51:00] what the state would require with a
[02:51:02] lensure process but that is just
[02:51:04] objectively not the case. So 15 states
[02:51:08] don't require even baseline measures
[02:51:10] like a criminal background check.
[02:51:13] Uh nine states don't require day camps
[02:51:16] to be licensed. Eight states don't
[02:51:18] require residential camps to be
[02:51:19] licensed. And in a lot of states even
[02:51:21] where they are required to be licensed,
[02:51:24] if you're faith-based, you're exempt
[02:51:25] from that lensure process. And so that
[02:51:29] makes me unhappy as a Christian that
[02:51:32] faith-based is held to a lesser
[02:51:34] standard. It's like, shouldn't
[02:51:35] Christians be operating with a higher
[02:51:37] ethical standard and more excellence?
[02:51:40] But a lot of these Christian camp,
[02:51:41] especially in Missouri, if you're a
[02:51:42] faith-based camp, you're exempt from the
[02:51:43] lensure process. And that was true in
[02:51:45] Texas until this year, uh, 2025, sorry.
[02:51:48] >> So, it attracts criminals.
[02:51:50] >> Oh, yeah. It's a
[02:51:51] >> because because there is no
[02:51:54] >> it is a Oh, man.
[02:51:57] >> Yeah. Exactly. Now, this isn't true of
[02:52:00] every camp, but parents need to be aware
[02:52:03] of the regulatory environment with
[02:52:04] summer camps so they can ask the right
[02:52:06] questions and decide if they want their
[02:52:09] children to be stewarded by uh these
[02:52:11] people that are often times running
[02:52:13] for-profit businesses. Um, or if it's a
[02:52:15] faith-based camp, um, they're held to no
[02:52:18] standard in the name of freedom of
[02:52:20] religion, which I'm all about, but when
[02:52:21] it comes to kids, safety first. So,
[02:52:24] >> do you send your kids to a camp? No,
[02:52:26] >> I didn't think. I mean, I would
[02:52:28] >> after what my family's been through and
[02:52:30] after what I've researched again, I've
[02:52:31] had to Aaron Brochovich all of this.
[02:52:33] Like, no one's doing this work.
[02:52:34] >> Are there any good camps?
[02:52:37] >> Of course.
[02:52:38] >> Can you name any? [laughter]
[02:52:40] [snorts]
[02:52:41] >> Um,
[02:52:42] >> Outwardbound. Have you heard of that
[02:52:44] one?
[02:52:45] >> Which one?
[02:52:45] >> Outwardbound.
[02:52:47] I think it's Outwardbound. Homeward
[02:52:48] bound.
[02:52:49] >> My husband did that. Um, so you have
[02:52:51] like summer camps and then you have
[02:52:53] programs like that that are a little bit
[02:52:55] different than a traditional summer
[02:52:56] camp. And then you have the troubled
[02:52:58] teen industry programs. And that's a
[02:53:00] residential program for a teen that like
[02:53:03] maybe a very conservative parent catches
[02:53:05] their kid smoking marijuana. And they
[02:53:08] freak out and they're like, "You're a
[02:53:09] troubled teen. You have to go to this um
[02:53:11] program." They get kidnapped in the
[02:53:13] middle of the night, show up at this
[02:53:14] troubled teen program, behavioral
[02:53:16] program. Um, this is Paris Hilton's
[02:53:18] story. I don't know if you've heard
[02:53:20] about any of this. She got the Stop
[02:53:22] Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Act
[02:53:23] passed by Congress uh because of her
[02:53:26] experience.
[02:53:26] >> Paris Hilton.
[02:53:27] >> Paris Hilton. Mhm. And then there's a
[02:53:29] nonprofit called Unsilenced. Um and they
[02:53:32] have a database of troubled teen
[02:53:34] programs that have allegations against
[02:53:36] them. So,
[02:53:36] >> did you just say Paris Hilton got
[02:53:38] something passed about what I'm what?
[02:53:41] >> I know Paris Hilton stop institutional
[02:53:44] child sexual abuse act. And um she and
[02:53:48] other survivors of the troubled teen
[02:53:49] industry rallied together to get uh
[02:53:51] Congress to approve this act. And
[02:53:53] >> was she sexually abused?
[02:53:55] >> She was abused at a troubled teen
[02:53:57] program in Utah.
[02:53:59] >> No [ __ ] We need to get her.
[02:54:01] >> Yeah. Yeah. She's really impressive,
[02:54:04] really smart. Um but then all of these
[02:54:06] other survivors have also coalesed
[02:54:09] around this and Paris was willing to put
[02:54:11] her name on it and they got it passed.
[02:54:13] >> Wow. Um, so you have the troubled teen
[02:54:16] programs. There's actually a Netflix
[02:54:18] show called The Program About This as
[02:54:20] well. Um, the nonprofit Unsilenced is
[02:54:24] the one that has the database of these
[02:54:25] residential programs for troubled teens.
[02:54:27] So like that Agape behavioral uh, Agape
[02:54:31] boarding school I mentioned earlier that
[02:54:32] moved from Washington State to Missouri
[02:54:34] to be less regulated, there they would
[02:54:36] be in that database. Um there's active
[02:54:38] litigation against one of those programs
[02:54:40] called Shelterwood. That was actually uh
[02:54:42] a Joe White affiliated troubled teen
[02:54:45] program. Um so yeah, the the summer camp
[02:54:49] industry, the troubled teen thing, a lot
[02:54:51] of times kids will go to summer camp,
[02:54:53] they're troubled, and so then Joe White
[02:54:55] or someone at the camp might recommend
[02:54:56] they go to a behavioral school or
[02:54:58] behavioral program. um and what's been
[02:55:00] uncovered recently um and thanks to
[02:55:03] people like Pierce Hilton willing to put
[02:55:05] her name on it uh it's become there's
[02:55:08] been more awareness around that with
[02:55:11] your traditional American summer camp
[02:55:12] like these sleepaway camps huge industry
[02:55:16] in the Hill Country in Texas and um
[02:55:19] being from Dallas I had a lot of friends
[02:55:21] that went to Camp Longhorn Camp Mystic a
[02:55:24] ton to Canuck too but um these are also
[02:55:28] 100-year-old camps in the Hill Country
[02:55:30] and they're in Kur County and that's
[02:55:31] like the county's industry is a lot of
[02:55:34] it revolves around these camps because
[02:55:36] it brings in tourism.
[02:55:38] So, um my life changed again on July 4th
[02:55:43] of uh 2025
[02:55:46] when I was at the beach with my family
[02:55:48] and um my sorority sister's group text
[02:55:51] started blowing up [snorts] and it was
[02:55:54] like flash flooding in the Hill Country.
[02:55:56] I'm like, so like I'm I'm up in the
[02:55:58] Northeast. I'm like, why are you giving
[02:56:00] me weather updates? Um, and then that
[02:56:02] escalated into
[02:56:05] Yla's missing, one of my sorty sister's
[02:56:07] daughters. And then I turn on the news.
[02:56:10] I mean, we're all getting ready for the
[02:56:11] Fourth of July parade. And um then I
[02:56:15] keep getting texts. There's a text I got
[02:56:17] of a cabin floating down the river with
[02:56:19] looked like 50 kids in it.
[02:56:21] >> Holy [ __ ]
[02:56:22] >> Yeah. And um and then it quickly
[02:56:26] escalated from
[02:56:28] Laya's missing to Yla's dead
[02:56:32] and all these girls are missing.
[02:56:37] And so like I'm with my three kids and
[02:56:40] my family. We like are sitting at the
[02:56:42] Fourth of July parade as all of this is
[02:56:43] like coming through on my phone and like
[02:56:45] I'm like, "Oh no, I need to reach out to
[02:56:48] a Navy Seal friend I know that's based
[02:56:49] in Austin and see if they're on it."
[02:56:51] like what is going on? And um
[02:56:56] you know, fast forward, 27 girls died at
[02:56:59] Camp Mystic during the flash floods in
[02:57:01] the Hill Country on July 4th and it was
[02:57:04] completely preventable.
[02:57:07] So then I know this because I'm camp
[02:57:09] negligence girl at this point from
[02:57:11] everything I've uncovered about Kanak
[02:57:13] and the camp industry. The American
[02:57:14] Camps Association has been around for
[02:57:16] 115 years and they're the main
[02:57:19] accreditation uh entity for the
[02:57:21] industry.
[02:57:23] There are also some smaller camp
[02:57:24] organizations that lobby for mostly
[02:57:27] exemptions and waiverss, not child
[02:57:30] protection. Um, so my head immediately
[02:57:33] goes to, and it's horrible to say this,
[02:57:36] but I just know what I know. And like
[02:57:37] these girls aren't missing. They're
[02:57:39] dead. And it's not it's the camp's
[02:57:43] fault. It's negligence. Like just
[02:57:47] >> you know, the pattern is there.
[02:57:49] >> Um I've also I've been in touch with a
[02:57:52] dad from California whose daughter
[02:57:53] drowned at a day camp because the
[02:57:55] American Red Cross was fraudulently uh
[02:57:58] accrediting lifeguards. That came out in
[02:58:00] a Washington Post article.
[02:58:02] There's just at every turn the camp
[02:58:05] industry has had failures and they've
[02:58:06] had 115 years to uh do better. But here
[02:58:11] we are with uh 19 suicides affiliated
[02:58:15] with the Kanak situation. So Trey is not
[02:58:18] the only one that's uh died by suicide.
[02:58:21] Um [snorts] and then you have these 27
[02:58:24] 8-year-old girls, 8 to 10 year old girls
[02:58:27] who died because the camp didn't have an
[02:58:30] evacuation plan. In fact, their
[02:58:32] evacuation plan was to shelter in place.
[02:58:34] That's not an evacuation plan. What were
[02:58:37] you trained on in what were you trained
[02:58:39] like when there's flash flooding? What
[02:58:40] do you do?
[02:58:42] >> Get to higher ground.
[02:58:43] >> Higher ground.
[02:58:43] >> Get to higher ground. Not rocket
[02:58:45] science. They left the 8-year-old babies
[02:58:48] in the flood and they got swept away
[02:58:53] between 1 and 7 a.m. on the morning of
[02:58:57] July 4th. Three of them were my friend's
[02:59:00] daughters.
[02:59:01] Oh man,
[02:59:04] >> I wear these bracelets in their honor.
[02:59:08] Uh they're now known as the heavens 27
[02:59:12] and um
[02:59:15] one of them especially uh hit close to
[02:59:18] home because
[02:59:21] uh
[02:59:23] my sority sister Caitlyn like we lived
[02:59:26] together in the capiles. We studied
[02:59:27] abroad in London during college.
[02:59:30] and uh she has three girls and Laya was
[02:59:34] the oldest and I couldn't stay at the
[02:59:37] beach while this was happening, right?
[02:59:38] So our whole family would leave, we come
[02:59:40] back to Dallas, we go to the service to
[02:59:42] Laya's funeral, memorial service and
[02:59:46] um I go hug my friend and I'm like this
[02:59:49] wasn't your fault. She went to Mystic,
[02:59:51] too. So she I knew she was going to
[02:59:53] blame herself
[02:59:55] and I was like
[02:59:58] these camps I I'm here if you ever want
[03:00:02] to talk about
[03:00:05] this whenever you're ready. And um I was
[03:00:08] like I'm not going to be the friend that
[03:00:10] brings you a lasagna or like a little
[03:00:12] note with flowers but if you want to
[03:00:14] talk about camp reform I'm here for it.
[03:00:17] And she goes oh I know exactly what I'm
[03:00:19] calling you for. And I was like I'm
[03:00:21] pissed. She was like, "I'm so pissed." I
[03:00:23] was like, "Yeah, I'm here." Then I went
[03:00:26] and talked to the dad and uh he gave me
[03:00:29] the biggest hug and he was like, "I'm
[03:00:30] sorry." I'm like, "Why are you saying
[03:00:32] you're sorry to me? Your daughter's
[03:00:34] memorial service." He was like, "I had
[03:00:36] no idea what you've been going through
[03:00:37] the last 5 years like with Trey and like
[03:00:40] these camps, man." I'm like, "Yeah." I
[03:00:43] was like, "I'm here when you're ready to
[03:00:44] tackle these issues."
[03:00:47] Uh he was like, "I'm going to have to
[03:00:48] take action or I won't survive this."
[03:00:51] I've lost a brother and that was hard
[03:00:53] enough. I can't imagine losing a child,
[03:00:58] especially when they just needed to walk
[03:01:01] 100 ft that way and they'd be alive. But
[03:01:04] the camp leadership told them to stay in
[03:01:06] place.
[03:01:08] >> Oh my gosh, man.
[03:01:11] >> And there's still one camper missing and
[03:01:13] her name is Seal Stewart.
[03:01:16] and she's from Austin and um
[03:01:20] they haven't found her.
[03:01:23] Um
[03:01:26] they are still looking for Seal. The the
[03:01:28] search is very active and ongoing. Um
[03:01:32] there were some Navy Seals early on who
[03:01:34] jumped in to help search and uh they
[03:01:37] were wearing these bracelets, seals for
[03:01:39] seal.
[03:01:40] when uh the first responders were
[03:01:43] amazing. People like that who just
[03:01:46] wanted to help showed up, started diving
[03:01:49] um recovering bodies.
[03:01:52] Um now the search is under the purview
[03:01:55] of Captain Miller, former Green Beret,
[03:01:57] who's with the Texas Rangers now and um
[03:02:00] he's also a combat veteran. He's from
[03:02:02] there. He knows that river inside and
[03:02:04] out. You couldn't have someone better on
[03:02:06] paper to be searching for Seal and the
[03:02:08] there's another man that's still
[03:02:10] missing.
[03:02:11] Um, but Blake and Caitlyn Lyla's
[03:02:15] parents, they called me a few weeks
[03:02:17] later after the service and they were
[03:02:19] like, "We're ready." I thought it would
[03:02:21] be way down the road like that they
[03:02:25] would just
[03:02:27] hunker down, grieve, raise their other
[03:02:29] two daughters,
[03:02:31] and they were ready to fight.
[03:02:35] So, we took a call with them and um
[03:02:39] they're like, "How did you pass Trey's
[03:02:41] law?
[03:02:42] How do we go about reforming the camp
[03:02:44] industry?"
[03:02:46] And uh this was in the summer. So, you
[03:02:50] know, I mentioned Texas only meets every
[03:02:52] other year, their legislature. So, there
[03:02:55] are things called a special session. If
[03:02:58] something doesn't get resolved during
[03:03:00] the legislative sess the regular leg
[03:03:02] legislative session, the governor can
[03:03:03] call a special session. And at this
[03:03:06] point when I'm talking to my friends, um
[03:03:10] there is a special session happening,
[03:03:11] but the Democrats have walked out over
[03:03:12] redistricting. So like nothing's
[03:03:14] happening in Austin.
[03:03:16] And uh because that stalled out, there
[03:03:19] was the likelihood that the governor was
[03:03:21] going to call a second special session.
[03:03:24] And um I got in touch with my lobbying
[03:03:27] team who helped me pass Trey's law. Um
[03:03:30] and one of them was a I mean everyone's
[03:03:33] traveling in the summer, right? So I was
[03:03:34] like trying to run down this team and
[03:03:36] one was in London, one was in Italy and
[03:03:38] then um there was someone available in
[03:03:41] Austin and he actually knew Laya's dad,
[03:03:44] Blake, and [snorts]
[03:03:45] uh
[03:03:47] got in touch with him. Then Karen Rove,
[03:03:49] who's married to Carl Rove, she's a
[03:03:51] lobbyist in Austin. Uh and then another
[03:03:55] victim, their daughter was a counselor
[03:03:57] that uh went down with those girls.
[03:04:01] >> Oh man.
[03:04:02] >> There are two counselors that we Chloe
[03:04:04] and Catherine we call heroes because
[03:04:06] they could have left and saved
[03:04:07] themselves, but they went down with
[03:04:09] those girls,
[03:04:11] >> man.
[03:04:12] >> And they were both going to UT in the
[03:04:14] fall. One was going to be premed, one
[03:04:16] was going to be a special education
[03:04:17] teacher.
[03:04:19] And they stayed with those girls till
[03:04:20] the end. and they followed orders which
[03:04:23] were stay in place and it killed them
[03:04:26] all.
[03:04:28] And um anyway, so
[03:04:33] Khloe's dad, Chloe being one of the
[03:04:35] counselors and um Blake, my friend's
[03:04:38] husband, Laya's dad, um after I told
[03:04:42] them like here's some of the
[03:04:43] possibilities, we rallied the troops,
[03:04:46] like the lobbyists we all knew in our
[03:04:48] group. There was one girl in Birmingham
[03:04:51] who died uh in the flood, Sarah Marsh.
[03:04:54] That's why we're bringing camp safety
[03:04:55] bills to um Alabama next along with I I
[03:04:59] called my sponsors for Trey's law. Um
[03:05:02] Representative David Faulner in Alabama
[03:05:04] represents Sarah Marsh's district and
[03:05:05] he's going to carry this camp safety
[03:05:07] reform legislation for us in Alabama. Um
[03:05:10] I also have one of my friends in
[03:05:12] Missouri who has been house judiciary
[03:05:14] chair during this whole journey for me
[03:05:15] with Trey's law and statute of
[03:05:16] limitations reform in Missouri. she's
[03:05:18] going to sponsor camp safety reform in
[03:05:20] Missouri. And um
[03:05:23] because this just touched everyone at
[03:05:25] the deepest level. Anyone who's a parent
[03:05:27] can't fathom losing a child period. But
[03:05:30] under these circumstances when it was so
[03:05:32] preventable,
[03:05:33] like if that cabin had had a ladder to
[03:05:36] get on the roof, they'd be alive. If
[03:05:38] there had been any redundancy in the
[03:05:39] internet connection, they could be
[03:05:41] there's no communication. There were
[03:05:42] three adults trying to rescue hundreds
[03:05:45] of girls in that flash flood and they
[03:05:47] refused to evacuate them even after 1:15
[03:05:50] a.m. It was like life-threatening flash
[03:05:52] floods.
[03:05:54] A counselor was able to call disp 911 at
[03:05:57] like 3:30ish.
[03:05:59] Um the camp didn't call until 7:30 and
[03:06:02] said, "We're missing between 20 and 40
[03:06:04] girls."
[03:06:05] >> Oh my gosh, man.
[03:06:08] >> Horrible.
[03:06:09] So, especially in Texas, this was all
[03:06:11] over the news, but I think it was all
[03:06:13] over the news everywhere. Did you hear
[03:06:14] about this Hill Country flood?
[03:06:17] >> Yeah. So, like everybody heard about
[03:06:19] >> Everybody heard about this. [snorts] Um,
[03:06:22] and these parents in their acute raw
[03:06:25] grief
[03:06:28] came to the consensus that they don't
[03:06:30] want this to happen to anyone else, any
[03:06:32] other families. No other family should
[03:06:33] have to go through this. We don't want
[03:06:34] any other children. We don't want
[03:06:36] children going to camp next summer
[03:06:38] without some big changes. Um so,
[03:06:44] uh what ended up happening is the second
[03:06:46] special session got called. These
[03:06:48] families, um myself, our lobbying team,
[03:06:51] we went down to Austin.
[03:06:54] We met with the big three, the
[03:06:56] lieutenant governor, the speaker of the
[03:06:58] house, and the governor.
[03:07:00] They held photos of their daughters and
[03:07:02] talked about them and what bright lights
[03:07:05] they were and what kind girls they were
[03:07:07] and um
[03:07:12] you know still in shock. I mean have you
[03:07:15] you probably have with your background
[03:07:17] but seen someone trimmer from trauma.
[03:07:18] It's just like so like some moms just
[03:07:21] like
[03:07:23] >> tremoring
[03:07:24] with the trauma and the shock and grief
[03:07:27] of
[03:07:28] their daughters not um not being with
[03:07:31] them anymore. Those girl the survivors
[03:07:33] of that uh flash flood in the Hill
[03:07:36] Country traumatized left in Blackhawks.
[03:07:41] They're like, "We sent our daughter to
[03:07:42] camp and they left in. We didn't send
[03:07:44] them to a war zone
[03:07:46] and um so much [clears throat] trauma."
[03:07:49] And that was the only camp that lost
[03:07:51] life.
[03:07:52] >> That's the only camp.
[03:07:55] >> The others had evacuation plans
[03:07:58] >> or got lucky.
[03:08:00] So all these lawsuits have dropped now
[03:08:04] uh claiming negligence, gross
[03:08:06] negligence, wrongful death and um
[03:08:10] uh [sighs and gasps]
[03:08:12] and now I I wish I weren't alone in
[03:08:15] this. I I mean I felt alone in this
[03:08:17] fight. Um not just the Canak fight, but
[03:08:20] realizing this goes well beyond Canak.
[03:08:23] Like camps in general are so unregulated
[03:08:25] and unsafe and they don't prioritize.
[03:08:27] They prioritize low insurance premiums,
[03:08:30] profits,
[03:08:33] um, you know, getting their property
[03:08:35] taxes down. It's just like all the
[03:08:37] things you would think of to run a
[03:08:39] normal business, but this is kids and
[03:08:41] their lives. So, you need to go a step
[03:08:43] further in protecting people's most
[03:08:45] precious, their children, right? And um,
[03:08:48] in the case of Mystic,
[03:08:51] uh, none of that happened. These 27
[03:08:55] babies died. the Heavens 27 and uh those
[03:08:59] parents showed up and testified and uh
[03:09:02] passed the Heavens 27 Camp Safety Act
[03:09:04] and the Youth Camper Act. So that
[03:09:07] starting next summer, not waiting on the
[03:09:09] 2027 legislative cycle, which means that
[03:09:11] wouldn't be implemented till 2028.
[03:09:14] So it had to happen during that special
[03:09:16] for 2026 to be any different than this
[03:09:19] year. So now in Texas, it is not up to
[03:09:22] human error anymore or discretion. Uh
[03:09:26] you evacuate. No more sleeping babies in
[03:09:29] a floodway or flood plane. Um you have
[03:09:32] walkie-talkies.
[03:09:34] You have things so you can communicate
[03:09:36] among the cabins in a situation like
[03:09:38] that. And what we've learned is not only
[03:09:40] was Camp Mystic not prepared for a
[03:09:43] flood, even though it's called flash
[03:09:44] flood alley and it's flooded multiple
[03:09:47] times before to the point where I've had
[03:09:49] alumni tell me that they remember when
[03:09:50] it flooded and uh the staff would bring
[03:09:52] them breakfast in a kayak like they knew
[03:09:56] they know this floods. Um but yeah, they
[03:10:01] uh
[03:10:02] they lost these 27 campers cuz they
[03:10:05] refused to evacuate them. Chloe and
[03:10:08] Katherine went by the documented orders.
[03:10:11] Stay in place. We'll come get you. And
[03:10:14] um but now the camps in Texas are
[03:10:18] required to be licensed. No more
[03:10:19] waiverss, no more exemptions. So that's
[03:10:22] huge because only 300 something camps
[03:10:24] were previously licensed and there's
[03:10:27] over a thousand camps in Texas.
[03:10:29] um they're required now to have a
[03:10:31] database on the website uh for the state
[03:10:33] of Texas about which camps have been
[03:10:36] licensed and um just more transparency,
[03:10:39] right? So parents can make their own
[03:10:40] decisions about where they want to send
[03:10:42] their kids. Um
[03:10:45] and yeah, a whole bunch of other stuff
[03:10:47] too that makes camp safer for kids
[03:10:49] immediately in Texas. That'll go into
[03:10:51] that's in effect.
[03:10:52] >> Man, nice work.
[03:10:54] >> Very proud of these families who um I
[03:10:57] now consider
[03:10:58] dear friends, but I wish I were. You
[03:11:01] know, I'm not alone in this fight
[03:11:03] anymore, but I wish I were. I wish it
[03:11:05] didn't have to be this way.
[03:11:07] There's an army of parents who are
[03:11:09] determined for their daughters to be
[03:11:11] remembered, for their legacies to
[03:11:13] matter, not just their lives, but in
[03:11:15] their loss. How do we prevent that? And
[03:11:17] um I'm here for it. Um I'd like to read
[03:11:22] their names if that's okay.
[03:11:23] >> Absolutely. Because the camp hasn't
[03:11:25] acknowledged their names in any
[03:11:27] communications.
[03:11:28] >> Are you serious?
[03:11:29] >> And they've announced they're reopening
[03:11:31] when one camper is still missing.
[03:11:37] Maybe recover all the bodies of your
[03:11:40] dead campers from last season before you
[03:11:42] reopen summer 2026.
[03:11:47] >> Jeez.
[03:11:48] >> It's actually one of the girls birthdays
[03:11:50] today.
[03:11:54] And
[03:11:58] I always hated it when people would say
[03:12:00] sorry for your loss because with Trey,
[03:12:02] it's like
[03:12:04] my loss, it's the loss to the world,
[03:12:06] right? And uh that's how I feel with
[03:12:09] these girls, too. It's not just their
[03:12:10] family's personal loss. This is like I
[03:12:12] mentioned, future special ed teacher
[03:12:15] studying to be a doctor. Some of them
[03:12:18] wanted to be veterinarians when they
[03:12:19] grew up or artists. This is what we've
[03:12:22] lost.
[03:12:24] Mary Grace Baker, Margaret Bellowos,
[03:12:27] Llaya Bonner, Khloe Childris, Molly Dit,
[03:12:32] Lucy Dylan, Katherine Fuso,
[03:12:36] Ellen Gutten, Hadley Hannah,
[03:12:40] Virginia [snorts] Hollis, Janie Hunt,
[03:12:43] Mary Kate Jacobe, Laney Landry, Hannah
[03:12:47] Lawrence, Rebecca Lawrence, twins.
[03:12:53] Kelly and Lidle, Sarah Marsh, Lenny
[03:12:56] Macau, who would be turning nine today,
[03:12:59] Blakeley McCroy, Win Naylor,
[03:13:03] Eloise Lulu, Peek, Abby P, Margaret
[03:13:07] Sheiy, Renee Schmeesta,
[03:13:10] Mary Stevens, Seal Stewart, and Greta
[03:13:14] Torono.
[03:13:17] Those
[03:13:20] are the heavens 27
[03:13:24] and um they should still be here. Their
[03:13:27] deaths were completely preventable.
[03:13:31] So if that's not a wakeup call to
[03:13:34] parents, to the camp industry that we
[03:13:37] need to do better, I don't know what
[03:13:39] else it's going to take.
[03:13:44] We launched what's called the campaign
[03:13:45] for camp safety and um
[03:13:49] this is now under the no more victims
[03:13:51] alliance. So, you know, it's all camp
[03:13:54] negligence, right?
[03:13:56] Trey's law can't put victims under NDAs.
[03:14:00] I mean, that camp I mentioned that had
[03:14:02] the cabin floating down the river,
[03:14:04] they've had a huge child sexual abuse
[03:14:06] problem.
[03:14:09] Uh Camp Stewart, the brother Camp
[03:14:11] Mystic's all girls. Camp Stewart's a
[03:14:13] boy's camp. They uh I got a call from a
[03:14:16] victim's mom because they wanted to put
[03:14:18] her son under an NDA.
[03:14:21] I have a whole database of these camps
[03:14:23] that have child sexual abuse problems.
[03:14:26] And I never thought, oh, as a mom, I
[03:14:29] should also ask, uh, do you sleep
[03:14:31] 8-year-olds in a floodway?
[03:14:34] And um
[03:14:36] >> so I started before you go to camp.com
[03:14:40] and it's for parents to know how to vet
[03:14:42] these organizations and it started out
[03:14:45] as just questions to ask to understand
[03:14:47] do they have appropriate child sexual
[03:14:49] abuse prevention measures in place.
[03:14:52] If they respond we use the Canakook
[03:14:53] child protection plan big red flag.
[03:14:57] We are going to add different uh
[03:14:59] categories to this before you go to
[03:15:00] camp.com
[03:15:02] to include these physical safety
[03:15:04] measures because Camp Mystic wasn't
[03:15:06] prepared for an active shooter. I mean,
[03:15:08] someone could have creeped up on those
[03:15:10] girls in a canoe on the river. No plans
[03:15:13] for that kind of stuff either. Um, but
[03:15:16] you know what's been heartbreaking is
[03:15:18] for these parents to realize that they
[03:15:21] just assumed that the same safeguarding
[03:15:23] measures in place at schools or your
[03:15:25] local YMCA. I mean, I'm looking around
[03:15:28] this room. You know, there's exit signs,
[03:15:31] there's fire sprinklers, a lot of
[03:15:33] schools have carbon monoxide detectors.
[03:15:35] Like at camps,
[03:15:37] nothing. I mean, when we were drafting
[03:15:39] these bills,
[03:15:39] >> they put blast film on every window and
[03:15:41] we all carry Yeah.
[03:15:42] >> a gun here. We don't [ __ ] around with
[03:15:44] this stuff.
[03:15:45] >> Yeah. And um the only people that showed
[03:15:50] up for those girls were the camp owner.
[03:15:52] He also died.
[03:15:55] And at first, everyone was like, "He's a
[03:15:57] hero. He died with those girls." And
[03:15:58] like he died in a ship he built that had
[03:16:01] holes in it.
[03:16:09] But there's that guy, his son, and a
[03:16:12] night watchman.
[03:16:14] Those were the only three adults around
[03:16:16] uh when these girls needed to be
[03:16:17] evacuated.
[03:16:19] They waited too late. And there's a
[03:16:22] there's a verse in Ezekiel that one of
[03:16:24] the dads read at the state senate
[03:16:26] hearing. It's really powerful.
[03:16:30] Um
[03:16:30] >> this place is opening up again already
[03:16:32] and they have found the bodies.
[03:16:35] >> Correct. Mhm.
[03:16:38] Who owns it?
[03:16:40] >> It's a for-profit family business owned
[03:16:42] by the Eastlands.
[03:16:44] >> The Eastlands.
[03:16:45] >> Mhm. Dick Eastland, who passed away in
[03:16:49] the flood, and his wife Tweety.
[03:16:54] Tweety and Dick. Tweet. Yeah, Tweety and
[03:16:57] Dick. And then their kids help run it
[03:17:00] with them. So, this is what Ezekiel 33:6
[03:17:03] says. But if the watchman sees the sword
[03:17:06] coming and does not blow the trumpet to
[03:17:08] warn the people, and the sword comes and
[03:17:10] takes someone's life, that person's life
[03:17:12] will be taken because of their sin. But
[03:17:14] I will hold the watchmen accountable for
[03:17:16] their blood.
[03:17:20] And I think that is all of our charge as
[03:17:22] the responsible adults in the room to be
[03:17:25] the watchmen and to protect kids.
[03:17:28] Whether that's guarding their innocence
[03:17:29] from sexual abuse and predators or their
[03:17:32] physical safety. You evacuate children,
[03:17:36] go to higher ground when there is a
[03:17:39] life-threatening flash flood warning.
[03:17:41] And you know how that river floods.
[03:17:46] >> Damn, man.
[03:17:50] It's just
[03:17:54] >> so the campaign for camp safety is now
[03:17:56] focused on research. We're doing a
[03:17:58] national mapping exercise of what states
[03:18:00] have the worst lack of regulation versus
[03:18:02] like what's a model state for example.
[03:18:05] Um so research and then advocacy like
[03:18:08] passing the laws I mentioned and then a
[03:18:10] safe summers fund. So to your question
[03:18:13] like are there good camps? Yes. Like
[03:18:14] there's some camps that do amaz like
[03:18:16] like think about camps for disabled
[03:18:19] children. Like it's an opportunity for
[03:18:22] them to find people they relate with. Um
[03:18:26] often times the parents come with the
[03:18:28] kids to those camps. But um there are
[03:18:30] some church camps like they might
[03:18:32] >> I mean [ __ ] all camps are supposed to be
[03:18:34] good and I mean you you say that like oh
[03:18:37] yeah I want to spend my kid with special
[03:18:39] needs there. Do I? Or is there some sick
[03:18:43] [ __ ] there that's got a fetish for
[03:18:44] special needs kids?
[03:18:46] >> Well, yeah. And so one of my good
[03:18:47] friends, um, Katherine Wolf, she runs a
[03:18:51] camp in Alabama called Hope Heels. Um,
[03:18:53] her first book was Hope Heels. She
[03:18:55] suffered a massive stroke and, uh, half
[03:18:58] of her face is paralyzed. She's in a
[03:18:59] wheelchair. Um, and for her 40th
[03:19:02] birthday, I gave her $40,000 personally
[03:19:05] to put a child sexual abuse prevention
[03:19:08] plan in place because some of those kids
[03:19:09] are non-verbal.
[03:19:11] You would I mean, how are you going to
[03:19:12] know?
[03:19:14] >> Mhm.
[03:19:14] >> And um she was so grateful and and
[03:19:17] they'd already done some her husband's
[03:19:18] an attorney. Like they'd already done a
[03:19:20] lot to um keep kids safe at that camp
[03:19:23] knowing they're extra vulnerable, that
[03:19:25] population. But um the parents go with
[03:19:27] the kids to that camp which is neat too
[03:19:29] because parents who are in a position of
[03:19:31] raising a child with special needs they
[03:19:33] have camaraderie right and encouragement
[03:19:35] in that community. Um and so really
[03:19:38] grateful for Katherine Wolf and what she
[03:19:41] I think what they've done at Hope Hills
[03:19:43] camp bringing in some consultants some
[03:19:45] real subject matter experts to make sure
[03:19:47] that these kids are safe there. That's
[03:19:49] so important. Um, she's also the friend
[03:19:52] I met her a month after trade died and
[03:19:56] um, she was in her wheelchair. I'd never
[03:19:58] heard of her, met her before and was
[03:20:00] with a mutual friend at something in
[03:20:02] South Carolina. And she grabbed my hand
[03:20:05] and um, she was like, "What are you
[03:20:08] going through?" And I was like, "I just
[03:20:09] lost my brother to suicide a month ago."
[03:20:12] And uh, she her eye that works. She like
[03:20:15] one tear came down her eye and she was
[03:20:19] like, "I just want you to know that
[03:20:22] there are treasures in the darkness."
[03:20:23] Isaiah tells us that there are treasures
[03:20:25] in the darkness.
[03:20:27] I didn't really know what she meant by
[03:20:29] that in that moment.
[03:20:31] Um, but as I've been through this grief
[03:20:34] journey and met so many other grieving
[03:20:37] people, um, I understand it now, like I
[03:20:42] would not be connected to a lot of these
[03:20:45] people I consider now some of my closest
[03:20:46] friends if we hadn't both endured the
[03:20:49] darkness. Like there are treasures in
[03:20:51] the darkness. Um, you know, would we all
[03:20:55] trade it to have in their case have
[03:20:58] their daughters back for me to have my
[03:21:00] brother back? Of course. Um, but that's
[03:21:03] why I read the serenity prayer because
[03:21:06] um, you know, it it talks about being
[03:21:10] reasonably happy in this life and
[03:21:12] supremely happy in the next. Like it's
[03:21:14] not all hunky dory here on earth.
[03:21:16] >> Yeah.
[03:21:16] >> And um, we can find those treasures in
[03:21:19] the darkness though, those glimmers of
[03:21:20] hope, those signs. Um, and I I brought
[03:21:24] this book to share because a lot of the
[03:21:26] families
[03:21:28] >> I just want to say something real quick.
[03:21:29] You know, when we're talking about these
[03:21:31] camps and like
[03:21:34] this isn't just camps, this is schools,
[03:21:38] stadiums, malls, venues,
[03:21:42] every churches, everything. Mhm.
[03:21:45] >> I mean, we've got we have an active
[03:21:47] shooter pro uh uh program an active
[03:21:50] shooter problem in this country. Every
[03:21:53] [ __ ] school that gets hit. Oh [ __ ]
[03:21:56] We didn't think it was going to happen.
[03:21:58] We didn't want to put the [ __ ] blast
[03:22:00] film on the windows. We didn't want to
[03:22:02] put in a security system. We didn't want
[03:22:04] to pay for a [ __ ] security guard. We
[03:22:06] didn't even want to get our lazy asses
[03:22:08] up and lock the [ __ ] door.
[03:22:10] >> Mhm.
[03:22:12] Well, then
[03:22:12] >> And how many [ __ ] kids are dead? from
[03:22:15] active shooters because nobody It's not
[03:22:18] going to happen to us.
[03:22:19] >> Mhm.
[03:22:20] >> Happened right here. Covenant.
[03:22:23] >> Well,
[03:22:24] >> we yanked our kids out of school. I
[03:22:26] mean, it's just it's just it's like,
[03:22:28] man, what the [ __ ] is it going to take
[03:22:30] for you [ __ ] to take this [ __ ]
[03:22:32] seriously? Put the blast film on the
[03:22:34] windows. Lock the [ __ ] doors. Get a
[03:22:37] security guard. put a [ __ ] drone up
[03:22:40] over the [ __ ] school when Charlie
[03:22:42] Kirk is [ __ ] talking.
[03:22:45] >> Like, what the [ __ ] man?
[03:22:48] >> Common sense.
[03:22:49] >> What the [ __ ] Have the kids go up the
[03:22:52] hill when the [ __ ] flood comes.
[03:22:55] >> Correct.
[03:22:57] >> What? What? What is What the [ __ ] is
[03:22:59] happening, man? This country is
[03:23:02] perishing fast.
[03:23:06] The the Covenant shooting was personal
[03:23:10] to me too because the senior pastor of
[03:23:12] that church, his daughter Hie, died in
[03:23:14] that shooting. And um he he married my
[03:23:20] husband and me. He led my husband to
[03:23:22] Christ in college.
[03:23:23] >> Our nanny
[03:23:26] went to church there.
[03:23:27] >> Well, you helped on the backside, right?
[03:23:29] You like secured the Yeah. Thank you.
[03:23:32] >> I didn't Whoa. I didn't do much. I went
[03:23:34] there and I did a free security
[03:23:36] assessment after it happened. That was
[03:23:38] that was it.
[03:23:40] >> And it's the after it happened that's so
[03:23:42] devastating. So how do you know circling
[03:23:45] back to what we talked about earlier,
[03:23:46] it's like how do we go upstream to
[03:23:49] prevention
[03:23:51] and value prevention and put resources
[03:23:53] towards prevention? The legislative
[03:23:56] process is so reactive.
[03:23:59] You do what you're doing or you
[03:24:01] homeschool your [ __ ] kid and take
[03:24:03] charge.
[03:24:05] >> Yeah,
[03:24:05] >> that's what you do. So,
[03:24:07] >> you yank your kids out of the system
[03:24:08] because the [ __ ] system doesn't work.
[03:24:11] >> In Texas this last year, another big uh
[03:24:14] win for kids is that uh Representative
[03:24:17] Mitch Little, who I mentioned earlier,
[03:24:19] helped us with the drafting on Trey's
[03:24:21] law. uh he passed a bill that removed uh
[03:24:24] sovereign immunity from public schools
[03:24:26] because that's a thing where schools
[03:24:29] cannot be public schools cannot be sued
[03:24:32] for child sexual abuse.
[03:24:35] >> What?
[03:24:35] >> Correct.
[03:24:36] >> What?
[03:24:38] >> So that just changed in Texas and that
[03:24:39] needs to be changed in every state. I
[03:24:42] can only tackle so much at once and it's
[03:24:43] statute.
[03:24:44] >> Can you say that again? If your kid is
[03:24:47] sexually molested in a public school,
[03:24:49] you have no recourse to [ __ ] sue.
[03:24:52] >> Let that [ __ ] sink in.
[03:24:54] >> You can sue the perpetrator, but not the
[03:24:55] school.
[03:24:57] >> Until now in Texas, you can sue, you can
[03:25:00] hold accountable everyone that was
[03:25:01] involved, including the institution.
[03:25:04] >> Is this involved with the Texas gun
[03:25:06] experience? [laughter]
[03:25:09] >> So, like I went to shoot with the this
[03:25:11] sweet guy named Chandler. I say sweet.
[03:25:12] >> Sorry, I got to bring some humor into
[03:25:14] this. you and me both. Um, but yeah, I
[03:25:19] was shooting and he was like, "Okay,
[03:25:21] you've done this before." He's like,
[03:25:23] "What do you do?" And I was like, "Oh, I
[03:25:26] hunt pedophiles, not with guns, with the
[03:25:28] law." He's like, "What? [laughter] Who
[03:25:31] are you?"
[03:25:33] [snorts] Um, but changing laws is how we
[03:25:36] get ahead of this.
[03:25:37] >> Yeah. and um you know the heavens 27 the
[03:25:42] camp safety acts that have been passed
[03:25:43] in Texas we're going to have a ripple
[03:25:45] effect of that across the country but I
[03:25:47] want to go back to what you said about
[03:25:48] this isn't just camps this is youth
[03:25:50] serving organizations
[03:25:53] all of them and um if I could tell the
[03:25:58] audience or you know you're not asking
[03:26:00] but I'm going to just say three things
[03:26:02] that could change overnight and make a
[03:26:04] huge difference it would be getting rid
[03:26:07] of NDAs that discussed the statute of
[03:26:09] limitations so that uh victims have more
[03:26:12] time to sue on their own terms and in
[03:26:13] their own time. So the so that justice
[03:26:16] system doesn't do more harm on top of
[03:26:18] the harm that's already occurred. And
[03:26:21] then um insurance companies requiring
[03:26:26] subject matter expert base like best
[03:26:29] practices in child sexual abuse
[03:26:30] prevention or child safeguarding in
[03:26:32] general all hazard before they insure
[03:26:35] that organization because these
[03:26:37] organizations aren't going to run
[03:26:38] without insurance. And so that is a real
[03:26:42] rude issue here is the insurance
[03:26:44] companies. Stop fighting me insurance
[03:26:48] lobbyists. get on the side of good and
[03:26:52] let's prevent these nuclear settlements
[03:26:55] you're so afraid of happening if uh an
[03:26:58] organization that you ensure gets hit
[03:26:59] with a lawsuit. Prevent the lawsuit from
[03:27:02] ever being necessary. Insurance could
[03:27:05] pull that lever overnight. It would
[03:27:06] change the game.
[03:27:08] It's not rocket science.
[03:27:13] And then parents consumer pressure would
[03:27:15] be another one I'd add actually. So, the
[03:27:18] reason Kanek's still in business,
[03:27:19] besides all of the legalities I've gone
[03:27:21] over, just the lack of law enforcement
[03:27:25] statute of limitations,
[03:27:27] um, is parents still send their kids
[03:27:30] there.
[03:27:31] The reason Camp Mystic's reopening,
[03:27:34] parents will still send their kids
[03:27:35] there.
[03:27:37] That is so I mean, I call them sheeple.
[03:27:41] >> There's a lot of them.
[03:27:43] >> Uh-huh. And there is the cult aspect to
[03:27:45] some of these camps too where it's like
[03:27:47] oh well my grandma went there and my you
[03:27:49] know and so it becomes this kind of
[03:27:50] donastical
[03:27:52] camp cult and um kids aren't safe again.
[03:27:57] It's been 115 years since the American
[03:27:59] Camps Association like started. They've
[03:28:01] had 115 years to get this right. And
[03:28:04] when they last updated their
[03:28:05] accreditation measures in I think it was
[03:28:07] like 2019 it didn't include anything
[03:28:09] about child sexual abuse prevention.
[03:28:13] So either they're complicit in the
[03:28:15] problem and have an issue themselves
[03:28:19] or they're so naive that they don't know
[03:28:22] this problem exists. How do you live in
[03:28:24] this world and not know this problem
[03:28:25] exists?
[03:28:25] >> Everybody knows this problem exists.
[03:28:29] [laughter]
[03:28:29] >> I mean
[03:28:31] >> everybody
[03:28:31] >> so if we know the problem exists I
[03:28:34] always try to say solutionsoriented. So
[03:28:36] I'm going to stay solutionsoriented. We
[03:28:37] know the problem exists.
[03:28:40] So you have primary prevention, you have
[03:28:42] secondary prevention, and you have
[03:28:43] tertiary prevention.
[03:28:45] I uh you know with a bunch of other
[03:28:48] colleagues and other foundations, we've
[03:28:50] started something called the safe
[03:28:52] childhoods initiative to bring more
[03:28:54] private funding into the field of child
[03:28:57] sexual abuse prevention because people
[03:28:59] need to understand this is preventable.
[03:29:02] We just hosted a conference in Dallas uh
[03:29:04] at our office campus for foundations and
[03:29:08] uh like you know private funders
[03:29:11] um
[03:29:13] even some practitioner subject matter
[03:29:15] experts to a symposium to talk about
[03:29:19] prevention. One of the just to give a
[03:29:21] couple examples that hopefully provide
[03:29:24] uh some glimmers of hope here. There's a
[03:29:27] doctor uh from Sweden.
[03:29:30] He came and talked about his
[03:29:33] uh it's a injected medication for
[03:29:37] pedophiles.
[03:29:39] >> A what?
[03:29:40] >> An injected medication for pedophiles
[03:29:42] that takes away their urge to act upon
[03:29:44] their desires. And he's tested this.
[03:29:47] >> There's a medication
[03:29:49] that pedophiles can take that will take
[03:29:51] their their
[03:29:53] >> I call it like ozic for pedophiles. like
[03:29:56] you get this injection every 100 days
[03:29:59] and you don't have the urge to act upon
[03:30:01] your desires because pedophiles come
[03:30:03] into just you know research
[03:30:04] [clears throat] shows for the most part
[03:30:06] you know you're a pedophile when you go
[03:30:07] through adolescence. So, just like
[03:30:09] anyone comes into whatever sexual
[03:30:11] attraction they're going to have, it's
[03:30:12] when you hit puberty and adolescence.
[03:30:15] And so, there's a lot of juvenile
[03:30:18] offenders. I mean, a lot of child sexual
[03:30:21] abuse is peer-on. So, it's not just
[03:30:23] about creepy adults. First of all, they
[03:30:26] usually don't come off as creepy. I
[03:30:28] mean, there certainly is that, but it's
[03:30:30] usually someone the kid knows, loves,
[03:30:31] and trusts.
[03:30:32] >> It's not stranger danger like we were
[03:30:34] taught in the 50s. Um, but someone the
[03:30:38] kid knows, loves, and trusts. A lot of
[03:30:39] it is familial, which is sick.
[03:30:42] >> Um, especially when you get into the
[03:30:45] trafficking. So, not all uh child sexual
[03:30:49] abuse is trafficking, but all
[03:30:50] trafficking is child sexual abuse,
[03:30:52] right? When you get into the trafficking
[03:30:53] statistics, so much of it is familial
[03:30:56] within the family. Um, but yeah, this
[03:31:01] injection for pedophiles, it does
[03:31:04] something in the brain that reduces the
[03:31:06] urge to act on those desires, on your
[03:31:08] sexual attraction to children.
[03:31:10] >> Does it actually work on sexual
[03:31:12] attraction to children or is it just sex
[03:31:14] drive in general?
[03:31:16] >> Yeah. So, I asked that and it's it's sex
[03:31:19] drive, which is sexual attraction to
[03:31:21] children and a pedophile like they don't
[03:31:23] have a sex drive.
[03:31:25] >> Oh, okay.
[03:31:26] >> That is their sex drive. Yeah. Okay.
[03:31:28] >> And it's criminal and um if you can if
[03:31:32] you can intervene early enough
[03:31:35] um then they don't act on their urges.
[03:31:38] So this trial started with 500
[03:31:41] pedophiles then 5,000.
[03:31:44] Now they're scaling it and um in talks
[03:31:47] to bring it to the US and you know my
[03:31:50] head went when I first heard this
[03:31:52] presentation in Sweden um her majesty uh
[03:31:55] Queen Sylvia invited eight foundations
[03:31:58] to her palace uh December 2024.
[03:32:03] Uh we were one of eight foundations
[03:32:04] invited because we're one of eight
[03:32:07] foundations that funds this issue of
[03:32:08] child sexual abuse prevention at the
[03:32:10] seven figure level and above. Not a lot
[03:32:12] of us. Only about 150 million in private
[03:32:14] funding goes towards child sexual abuse
[03:32:15] prevention globally on an annual basis.
[03:32:18] >> Globally.
[03:32:19] >> Yeah.
[03:32:21] So, how are we gonna make a dent in this
[03:32:25] with the lack of private funding?
[03:32:27] Because public dollars follow private
[03:32:28] funding
[03:32:30] for the most part. And so what we do at
[03:32:33] the Phillips Foundation is we like to
[03:32:34] incubate innovative or um new concepts,
[03:32:39] provide the proof of concept to then
[03:32:41] take it to the state and say this works.
[03:32:44] Look, it'll actually save taxpayer
[03:32:46] dollars if you scale this uh versus
[03:32:49] ignoring the issue. And um that's worked
[03:32:54] with a lot of our initiatives through
[03:32:56] our foundation. That's an approach we
[03:32:57] take. We're not a traditional
[03:32:59] foundation, but um we got summoned by
[03:33:02] the queen to the palace in Stockholm.
[03:33:05] She had started the World Childhood
[03:33:07] Foundation 25 years ago. She was really
[03:33:08] ahead of her time on just addressing
[03:33:12] child sexual abuse as a problem. Um and
[03:33:14] her daughter um Princess Meline um is
[03:33:18] about to cuz Queen Sylvia is now in her
[03:33:21] 80s. She's passing the torch to Princess
[03:33:22] Meline who was really amazing. She was
[03:33:25] so nice, so chill. She just moved back
[03:33:27] to Stockholm from um Florida with her
[03:33:31] kids and she's going to take this on for
[03:33:33] you know carry the legacy on. So we we
[03:33:36] all convened in Stockholm. Um we heard
[03:33:38] from this doctor I mentioned we heard
[03:33:40] from a few other uh people that study
[03:33:43] pedophiles and have some promising
[03:33:45] interventions. And um then we grew the
[03:33:50] group from those eight foundations to
[03:33:53] like 15 foundations
[03:33:55] to what we just hosted in Dallas. Then
[03:33:57] there was another one maybe 30 and now
[03:33:58] in Dallas it was like 50. Um and so
[03:34:02] we're trying to grow interest in the
[03:34:03] private funding because you know as we
[03:34:06] were saying everyone will tell you they
[03:34:07] care about this issue but we vote with
[03:34:11] our dollars right? You know someone's
[03:34:14] priorities by where they're spending
[03:34:15] their time, money, time, treasure,
[03:34:18] talent, and um there's just not a lot of
[03:34:21] money flowing into this issue.
[03:34:23] Anti-trafficking, yes, more so. Child
[03:34:26] sexual abuse prevention, not so much.
[03:34:28] Reacting to child sexual abuse, you
[03:34:30] know, children advocacy centers get a
[03:34:32] lot of funding even from the state. I
[03:34:34] think state of Texas gets something like
[03:34:35] 80 million in appropriations to their
[03:34:37] children advocacy centers from the
[03:34:38] state. prevention. However, that number
[03:34:41] I mentioned, 150 million.
[03:34:44] >> Damn, man.
[03:34:46] >> So, we need to take this issue from
[03:34:47] millions to billions. Not that money
[03:34:49] alone can solve it, but it can fund
[03:34:51] these promising innovations
[03:34:55] >> so that we make a dent in this issue.
[03:34:58] >> Yeah.
[03:34:58] >> But it also requires a culture shift
[03:35:01] where parents are asking the right
[03:35:04] questions of their kids' school, of
[03:35:07] wherever they're playing sports. I, you
[03:35:09] know, [clears throat] I have a PI on
[03:35:10] retainer and, you know, not everyone can
[03:35:13] do that. But before my kids are coached
[03:35:15] by anyone, I run a background check.
[03:35:19] Sad to say,
[03:35:21] we've uh not proceeded with certain
[03:35:24] people because they don't pass the
[03:35:26] criminal background check, but everyone
[03:35:28] else in Dallas thinks this guy hung them
[03:35:30] in.
[03:35:33] And um I'm like, well,
[03:35:36] >> man, you'd think this would just be
[03:35:38] common sense these days. You don't have
[03:35:40] to have a PI on retainer to get a
[03:35:42] background check.
[03:35:44] >> Well, right. I mean, we like to dig a
[03:35:45] little deeper beyond a background check
[03:35:47] cuz sometime, you know, the um your
[03:35:49] typical criminal background check isn't
[03:35:52] going to do a sweep of their social
[03:35:54] media and what are they posting and what
[03:35:57] what are the patterns? like uh one of
[03:36:00] the concepts that was presented at
[03:36:01] symposium is a database for gray area
[03:36:04] perpetrators. So this is someone who
[03:36:05] maybe had red flag behavior, but it
[03:36:09] didn't rise to criminal. So it's not
[03:36:12] going to show up on a background check.
[03:36:14] Um but there are conversations around
[03:36:16] these databases where someone is
[03:36:19] terminated due to red flag behavior or
[03:36:21] breach of policy related to child sexual
[03:36:22] abuse. Um so like maybe they're in the
[03:36:25] girls locker room and shouldn't be. um
[03:36:29] they're not going to get arrested for
[03:36:30] that, but they're going to get
[03:36:31] terminated for a violation of policy.
[03:36:33] And I want to check that database. I
[03:36:35] want to check someone's name against
[03:36:36] that database
[03:36:37] >> because it goes way beyond just like a
[03:36:39] criminal background check.
[03:36:40] >> Yeah.
[03:36:41] >> So, you know, those are the things we're
[03:36:43] working on. And I want to leave your
[03:36:44] audience with some hope and also a call
[03:36:46] to action.
[03:36:47] >> There is hope, but it takes action.
[03:36:50] >> It takes advocacy. It takes dollars.
[03:36:54] And uh we're putting together also
[03:36:55] through the safe childhoods initiative a
[03:36:57] menu if you will of investable
[03:36:59] opportunities that can help prevent
[03:37:00] child sexual abuse.
[03:37:02] >> It also takes just spreading the word
[03:37:04] around.
[03:37:04] >> Yeah.
[03:37:05] >> Getting loud about these things.
[03:37:07] >> We have to talk about it
[03:37:08] >> because you know if nobody goes to
[03:37:12] Canook
[03:37:13] then they're not in business.
[03:37:15] >> That's what I mean. We vote with our
[03:37:16] dollars.
[03:37:18] Um and that's how you know our family
[03:37:20] office and foundation we invest that way
[03:37:23] through a l I look at it as a lens right
[03:37:26] so it's not just a program area of the
[03:37:30] foundation where we are incubating
[03:37:33] promising concepts but we are also
[03:37:36] applying this child safeguarding lens to
[03:37:38] anyone we grant to or anything we invest
[03:37:40] in. So, we just invested in this
[03:37:42] technology that helps hire substitute
[03:37:44] teachers for public schools. And I'm
[03:37:46] like, I I think that's a great
[03:37:48] investment, but I want you to ask these
[03:37:50] additional questions about how are they
[03:37:52] screening, right? How what are the
[03:37:54] what's the process for vetting these
[03:37:56] substitute teachers?
[03:37:57] >> How do these how do these um how do
[03:37:59] these come to you? How do these entities
[03:38:01] or nonprofits or companies, whatever
[03:38:04] they are, how do they come to you? How
[03:38:05] do they find you?
[03:38:06] >> Yeah. So because early on so I started
[03:38:09] running the Phillips Foundation when I
[03:38:10] was about 24 and so now you know it's
[03:38:14] been a over a decade that uh we've put
[03:38:17] ourselves out there as uh interested in
[03:38:20] impact investing. So we everything we
[03:38:22] invest in we look at the impact because
[03:38:25] I want to take a first do no harm
[03:38:27] approach and strategy to our
[03:38:29] investments. Now, um there's a spectrum
[03:38:33] of impact investing all the way to, you
[03:38:36] know, ETFs, but down to venture
[03:38:39] philanthropy. And there's different
[03:38:41] returns for each of those uh asset
[03:38:44] classes and different parts of the
[03:38:45] spectrum.
[03:38:47] But across that spectrum, we're asking
[03:38:49] questions about if you're a company or a
[03:38:53] concept that involves children, then we
[03:38:56] want to diligence you a different way
[03:38:58] than, you know, your run-of-the-mill
[03:39:02] >> real estate business, let's say. So, uh,
[03:39:05] we use this lens across our portfolio
[03:39:09] for profit and on the foundation in the
[03:39:11] foundation grant making side. Um, and so
[03:39:13] when we had this conversation with that
[03:39:15] invest I was mentioning, they were so
[03:39:18] receptive. They said, "And on top of
[03:39:20] what you've asked, we're going to look
[03:39:22] into these three other things too." So
[03:39:24] like the more we talk about it and the
[03:39:26] more we elevate this conversation uh to
[03:39:29] match the data,
[03:39:31] one in five girls, one in seven boys
[03:39:33] globally will be child will be victims
[03:39:36] of child sexual abuse. So abused before
[03:39:38] the age of 18. Um,
[03:39:41] >> I mean, I'll bet 50% of the people that
[03:39:43] have been on the show have been sexually
[03:39:45] abused as a child. It blew my [ __ ]
[03:39:47] mind.
[03:39:48] >> I think it's much higher. I think it's
[03:39:50] much higher than what data shows because
[03:39:52] of the delayed disclosure issue, the
[03:39:54] shame, especially with male survivors.
[03:39:56] >> A lot of these, a lot of them tell me
[03:40:01] off camera,
[03:40:02] >> but a lot of them tell me on camera, and
[03:40:05] it's it's
[03:40:07] >> Yeah. And um I came forward about my own
[03:40:10] sexual assault when I was in college uh
[03:40:12] at a Senate uh committee hearing in
[03:40:15] Texas because I'm holding all of these
[03:40:17] stories with uh people sharing their
[03:40:20] worst trauma with me. I was like, I need
[03:40:22] to be brave, too. I need to I'm going to
[03:40:25] disclose what happened to me when I was
[03:40:27] 21. I wasn't a kid, but um it was an
[03:40:32] attempted rape. if I was able to escape
[03:40:34] the guy. And then I got dragged into a
[03:40:38] criminal court case around that. I
[03:40:40] didn't think anything would happen,
[03:40:41] there would be any justice, but they the
[03:40:43] Dallas office started testing the rape
[03:40:44] kit backlog. Have you heard about this
[03:40:47] issue? It's a national issue.
[03:40:48] >> Oh, yeah.
[03:40:49] >> Yeah. So, they start testing the rape
[03:40:51] kit backlog. This guy's DNA ties to
[03:40:53] several victims. I didn't do a DNA kit
[03:40:55] because mine was an attempted rape, not
[03:40:57] uh one that would require a rape kit.
[03:41:00] Um, but yeah, I get a call from the
[03:41:03] senior detective for homicide, uh, cold
[03:41:07] cases and sexual assault. I just left
[03:41:10] filming a a PBS segment in North
[03:41:12] Carolina for something. And I get this
[03:41:13] call like, "Huh, Trey had just died. I
[03:41:15] was the board chair of an
[03:41:16] anti-trafficking organization." I'm
[03:41:17] like, "This could be one of 20 things,
[03:41:18] right?" And they're like, "We detained
[03:41:21] Rafa Alvarez in Houston."
[03:41:24] And I was like, "What?
[03:41:26] That I have not heard that name in a
[03:41:29] minute. Um, but the rape kits had tied
[03:41:32] his DNA to all these assaults and they
[03:41:34] were like, "Will you be a witness?"
[03:41:35] Like, "Hell yeah." Called the right
[03:41:37] girl. Um, but in the and then I was
[03:41:41] assigned a victim advocate, which was
[03:41:44] really ironic considering uh I had just
[03:41:48] become a certified crime victim advocate
[03:41:50] myself cuz I was so far into all these
[03:41:52] disclosures, people telling me what had
[03:41:54] happened uh in their childhoods and I
[03:41:57] wanted I don't know what I just needed a
[03:41:58] piece of paper to tell me that I was
[03:42:00] certified in something like so I just
[03:42:02] gotten that and then I'm assigned one
[03:42:05] and we went through the criminal
[03:42:07] process. says trial got postponed two
[03:42:09] times and then uh the statute in Texas
[03:42:13] on that the reason it was in statute is
[03:42:14] there's an obscure part of the statute
[03:42:17] in Texas that if a perpetrator has more
[03:42:20] than five victims there's no statute of
[03:42:22] limitations criminally.
[03:42:24] Um unfortunately like two of the victims
[03:42:28] dropped out after trial got postponed so
[03:42:30] much that they didn't have the five
[03:42:32] victims willing to testify.
[03:42:34] So, he's just outliving his life. And um
[03:42:39] I came forward about that in the Senate
[03:42:42] committee hearing in Texas because I was
[03:42:44] so inspired by friends like Cindy
[03:42:46] Clemshshire who was a victim of Robert
[03:42:49] Morris, one of the largest mega church
[03:42:51] pastors in the country out of North
[03:42:53] Texas. Uh she was 12 when he started
[03:42:56] abusing her. And uh
[03:43:00] we caught him finally in Oklahoma
[03:43:02] because of a loophole in statute there
[03:43:05] where uh it was like a frontier law.
[03:43:08] Uh so if you come through the state,
[03:43:10] commit a crime and leave it told the uh
[03:43:12] statute of limitations doesn't apply. Um
[03:43:15] and so they were able to get Robert
[03:43:17] Morris through that statute in Oklahoma.
[03:43:19] And then a bunch of women were inspired
[03:43:21] by Cindy's story came forward in
[03:43:22] Oklahoma about an Assemblies of God
[03:43:24] pastor um Joe Campbell also from
[03:43:27] Missouri.
[03:43:29] He was running a camp in Missouri. Um
[03:43:32] >> holy [ __ ]
[03:43:33] >> Yeah. So um anyway, so we're at this
[03:43:37] hearing. Cindy's testifying and then
[03:43:40] there's this um this young man named
[03:43:43] Joseph who was abused in the Assemblies
[03:43:45] of God. They have a college ministry
[03:43:47] called Kai Alpha. just a cesspool
[03:43:51] for these predators. And his abuse
[03:43:53] started when he was a minor but went
[03:43:55] well into his adulthood. So after
[03:43:57] hearing our testimony, like I refer to
[03:44:00] myself as a college kid. We call them
[03:44:02] college kids. You're a kid. Like
[03:44:05] >> so after Joseph testified about being
[03:44:07] abused up to like age 23, 24, we were
[03:44:11] advocating for Trey's law to apply to
[03:44:12] sexual assault survivors of any age. And
[03:44:16] that's what we got passed in Texas
[03:44:18] because college kids shouldn't be put
[03:44:20] under NDAs either when they've survived
[03:44:21] a sexual assault.
[03:44:23] >> Yeah.
[03:44:23] >> Someone like Joseph definitely should
[03:44:25] have never been put under an NDA for
[03:44:27] what he survived. But he also exposed
[03:44:29] that the Assemblies of God was using
[03:44:30] NDAs at the staff level. So they'd have
[03:44:34] people come in a closed room and talk
[03:44:36] about how are we going to cover this up?
[03:44:38] Sign an NDA before we disclose what's
[03:44:40] going on. So Trey's law addresses that
[03:44:42] too. So like
[03:44:43] >> Holy [ __ ]
[03:44:44] >> Yeah. It voids NDAs for employees as
[03:44:46] well who knew something about the abuse.
[03:44:48] It's all released. All truth set free.
[03:44:52] Truth set free. Um and Texas I'm I'm so
[03:44:56] proud of Texas because what we
[03:44:58] accomplished with Trey's law in Texas is
[03:45:00] the best outcome possible for what we
[03:45:03] wanted this law to achieve.
[03:45:06] And I see signs of um Trey everywhere.
[03:45:09] That's what keeps me going. And I
[03:45:11] brought this book, Signs. It's by um
[03:45:14] Laura Lynn Jackson. The a lot of the
[03:45:16] moms of the Heavens 27 read this book
[03:45:19] too and um she grew up as a Christian. I
[03:45:22] also believe that people have spiritual
[03:45:24] gifts and uh so she I don't think the
[03:45:27] two are in conflict with each other. I
[03:45:29] think some people are just more in touch
[03:45:30] with the other side than others and
[03:45:32] Laurelyn Jackson's one of those and so
[03:45:34] people have labeled her a top medium in
[03:45:37] the country. But her book is secret uh
[03:45:39] language of the universe. Signs, secret
[03:45:41] language of the universe.
[03:45:43] >> And these signs that I get from my
[03:45:46] brother and that these families are
[03:45:48] getting from their angels above are
[03:45:50] undeniable. And um I am so convinced
[03:45:55] that um when people leave this earth,
[03:45:58] their spirits are still with us. And um
[03:46:02] when Trey died, I got inundated with a
[03:46:04] bunch of notes from a lot of friends and
[03:46:06] people who loved him, who care about my
[03:46:08] family. And there were three out of like
[03:46:11] all these hundreds of notes, three
[03:46:12] things that really stuck with me.
[03:46:15] One was from a childhood best friend's
[03:46:17] mom. She wrote in her note with a lot of
[03:46:21] other things, too. But she said, "The
[03:46:22] veil between heaven and earth is so
[03:46:25] thin."
[03:46:28] And I was like, "Wow, I've been I've
[03:46:31] been feeling that." You know, you kind
[03:46:32] of notice things. People sometimes say,
[03:46:34] "It's a butterfly, it's a cardinal, it's
[03:46:35] a rainbow." Um the signs I've gotten
[03:46:38] from Trey aren't just generic. It's like
[03:46:40] very specific and um and powerful. And
[03:46:44] then
[03:46:44] >> can you share any I've had this happen a
[03:46:46] lot.
[03:46:48] >> Yeah. So, an example is um about two
[03:46:52] weeks before he died, he dropped off
[03:46:55] this potted plant on my porch. And I
[03:46:59] wouldn't say we were like fighting. I
[03:47:00] just, as I mentioned earlier, set up
[03:47:02] some boundaries where
[03:47:04] I
[03:47:06] didn't
[03:47:07] want to get sucked into like 3-hour
[03:47:10] phone calls every night about how
[03:47:11] suicidal he was, stuff like that. I was
[03:47:13] like, I need boundaries. I have kids.
[03:47:16] [clears throat]
[03:47:17] So, we were at that point in the
[03:47:18] relationship where I just set some
[03:47:20] boundaries. He dropped off this potted
[03:47:22] plant with a sweet note and um it was on
[03:47:26] my porch when I got back from North
[03:47:27] Carolina. My husband's from North
[03:47:29] Carolina. I forgot. We go back and forth
[03:47:30] quite a bit. [snorts] And uh I don't
[03:47:33] think he even knew we were in North
[03:47:34] Carolina. So, anyways, it was on my
[03:47:35] porch. I bring it inside. I read the
[03:47:38] note and um
[03:47:41] then he died. So, that's the last thing
[03:47:44] I got from my brother. And um
[03:47:48] my oldest child at the time was going
[03:47:50] into first grade
[03:47:54] and
[03:47:56] one morning it was like so Trey died in
[03:47:58] August. It was like October maybe. Um my
[03:48:01] oldest son is like, "Can I tell you
[03:48:04] about a dream I had?" I was like, "Yeah,
[03:48:06] sure. This will take 10 minutes, right?
[03:48:08] Seven-year-old had a dream. It's going
[03:48:09] to be something weird and funny."
[03:48:12] 40,000 words later, he had me type it
[03:48:15] out.
[03:48:16] It was a story about an evil villain
[03:48:18] named Captain Pete who was trying to
[03:48:21] take over the world and the kids fought
[03:48:22] back and defeated the evil Captain Pete.
[03:48:26] >> Holy [ __ ]
[03:48:27] >> And he didn't know any he did not know
[03:48:31] that Trey had been abused by someone
[03:48:33] named Pete. He didn't he I mean he's so
[03:48:36] little. Like I'm not telling him how
[03:48:38] Trey died at that point. My therapist
[03:48:40] said only answer the questions your kids
[03:48:42] ask because of how little they are. And
[03:48:45] just to answer the question, is Uncle
[03:48:47] Trey in heaven? Yes. Uh, did Uncle Trey
[03:48:50] die? Yes. Um, you know, the other
[03:48:52] questions came later, the more
[03:48:53] complicated ones, the sad ones. Um, but
[03:48:57] he didn't know anything about the
[03:48:58] circumstances of Trey's abuse or how he
[03:49:00] died.
[03:49:01] >> Um, and
[03:49:02] >> man, wow.
[03:49:04] >> I brought you these books. So, he's a
[03:49:07] published author now three times over.
[03:49:10] It's called The Magic Island Chronicles.
[03:49:12] And uh I hope your kids can enjoy these
[03:49:14] one day. He's about to come out with the
[03:49:17] fourth.
[03:49:18] >> Oh man.
[03:49:20] >> And it's dedicated to his uncle T. Um
[03:49:23] >> Mhm. Really special. And so yeah, that's
[03:49:26] one example. And then I took him to
[03:49:29] Paris that October
[03:49:32] and our flight out of Paris got delayed,
[03:49:36] delayed, cancelled. So we had to hop
[03:49:38] over to Heathrow, spend the night in
[03:49:40] London. We're at breakfast the morning
[03:49:43] after that. So we're not supposed to be
[03:49:45] in London. Like we were supposed to fly
[03:49:47] back from Short Gahal in Paris and we're
[03:49:50] suddenly stuck in London.
[03:49:51] >> Thank you. [clears throat]
[03:49:52] >> We go to breakfast.
[03:49:54] That exact flower that Trey had dropped
[03:49:57] off on my porch before he died was on
[03:49:59] our breakfast table.
[03:50:02] Look around the room. I start crying and
[03:50:04] William, my son's like, "Why are you
[03:50:06] crying?" I'm like,
[03:50:08] "These are the flowers Uncle T gave me
[03:50:10] right before he died. I'd never seen
[03:50:11] them before in my life." And they're at
[03:50:14] our breakfast table
[03:50:16] and no other tables around us have these
[03:50:19] flowers.
[03:50:20] >> Wow.
[03:50:23] Stuff like that all the time.
[03:50:27] >> You want to hear one of mine?
[03:50:28] >> Mhm. I do. my best friend died of a
[03:50:31] heroin overdose
[03:50:33] and uh
[03:50:37] we uh we worked he was a seal we
[03:50:40] contracted at CIA together and uh he got
[03:50:43] really wrapped up into opiates.
[03:50:45] [clears throat]
[03:50:46] He was part of Red Wings
[03:50:48] >> if you know what that was.
[03:50:49] >> It was the biggest loss in Seal Team
[03:50:50] history at the time. M anyways,
[03:50:54] um
[03:50:58] when we left uh the agency, he was
[03:51:00] living with me for a long time and I was
[03:51:02] trying to save him and then um that was
[03:51:05] in Florida. I moved to Tennessee and he
[03:51:07] he uh overdosed shortly thereafter. But
[03:51:10] while he was
[03:51:13] while I was still in Florida, he was
[03:51:15] trying to he was a pro hockey player
[03:51:17] before he was a SEAL.
[03:51:20] And um so he
[03:51:24] while he was all jumped out, he would
[03:51:27] tell me, "I'm I'm going to start the
[03:51:29] Wounded Warriors hockey team and the
[03:51:33] Panthers, the NHL team. They're going to
[03:51:36] sponsor it."
[03:51:37] I'm like, "Okay,
[03:51:39] >> okay, Gabe. Right on." [laughter]
[03:51:42] And um best of luck.
[03:51:45] The day he died,
[03:51:48] the Panthers went over to his condo to
[03:51:50] tell him that they were going to fund
[03:51:52] his [ __ ] team
[03:51:55] and they found him dead.
[03:51:56] >> What?
[03:51:58] >> He had overdosed.
[03:52:02] And so fast forward, the teams, that's
[03:52:04] his jersey right there. The uh Panther
[03:52:07] Warriors.
[03:52:07] >> Panthers. Oh my gosh.
[03:52:09] >> And they still funded it. So let's fast
[03:52:11] forward, right? So, I always I'm always
[03:52:13] talking to Gabe and uh I did this
[03:52:16] interview overseas that uh
[03:52:19] ruffled a lot of feathers and with the
[03:52:22] Taliban and uh cuz I I I had um me and a
[03:52:26] guy legend had broken the story that um
[03:52:29] the US government sending 40 to $87
[03:52:32] million a week to the Taliban in cash
[03:52:35] and I got really paranoid and I was
[03:52:37] like, "Oh [ __ ] they're going to [ __ ]
[03:52:38] kill me." And um we had come back when
[03:52:41] we we did the interview in Austria. And
[03:52:44] we came back and that this is at my old
[03:52:47] studio. That jersey was hanging right
[03:52:49] when you walk in the front door.
[03:52:50] Probably been hanging there for about 3
[03:52:52] years.
[03:52:53] >> I come home from that and I'm already
[03:52:55] paranoid and that thing had fallen on
[03:52:57] the floor.
[03:52:58] >> No glass broke. The nail hole wasn't
[03:53:01] weird. It just was on the ground. And I
[03:53:05] felt like Gabe was trying to tell me
[03:53:06] something. So the whole day I'm like and
[03:53:09] nobody else was at the studio except uh
[03:53:12] my assistant. The whole team was in
[03:53:14] Austria and I asked her did you
[03:53:18] there's no reason for you to have done
[03:53:20] this but why you know she's like wasn't
[03:53:23] like that yesterday.
[03:53:25] And uh so everybody leaves. I'm pacing
[03:53:27] around and I'm like Gabe what are you
[03:53:29] trying to [ __ ] tell me man? What do I
[03:53:30] need to be looking out for? And I go
[03:53:32] home. I tell my wife and um
[03:53:38] she just looked at me and uh she goes,
[03:53:41] "Um,
[03:53:43] the Panthers just won the [ __ ]
[03:53:45] Stanley Cup yesterday."
[03:53:48] >> What?
[03:53:49] >> And I was like, "Holy,
[03:53:52] holy shit."
[03:53:55] And then I And then um I found it on
[03:53:59] June 28th, which is the day Red Wings
[03:54:02] happened. And those are his guys.
[03:54:04] >> Wow.
[03:54:07] It's specific.
[03:54:08] >> Oh, yeah.
[03:54:09] >> There's no doubting that. Was Gabe
[03:54:11] saying hello?
[03:54:13] >> Yeah.
[03:54:13] >> Panthers one or something. Was he?
[03:54:15] >> Yeah. So, I I started laughing cuz Katie
[03:54:17] told me that and I was I started
[03:54:19] laughing because I was like, man, Gab's
[03:54:22] over here probably looking at me like,
[03:54:23] "You [ __ ] idiot.
[03:54:25] >> I'm not trying to warn you of anything.
[03:54:26] The [ __ ] Panthers just won the
[03:54:28] Stanley Cup and it's June 28th. It was a
[03:54:32] celebration for
[03:54:33] >> Yeah, I know. I know. I was like, man, I
[03:54:36] gota stop taking myself so seriously,
[03:54:39] but uh but um
[03:54:42] I've had a lot of [ __ ] like that happen,
[03:54:44] man. And uh
[03:54:47] >> it's definitely not a coincidence.
[03:54:48] >> It's not a coincidence. I don't believe
[03:54:49] in coincidences. And um I will say
[03:54:53] another note that I mentioned three that
[03:54:55] really stood out. The second one was a
[03:54:57] woman who had lost her husband and her
[03:54:58] son in the same year. her son was a
[03:55:01] friend of mine [snorts] and uh she wrote
[03:55:03] in the note, "Joy and sorrow can coexist
[03:55:06] and I really needed to hear that." Um,
[03:55:09] and to your point of taking yourself so
[03:55:11] seriously,
[03:55:12] uh, it's easy to do that when you're
[03:55:15] experiencing a tragedy and going through
[03:55:17] grief.
[03:55:17] >> Yeah.
[03:55:18] >> But we have to give ourselves the
[03:55:19] permission to feel joy and sorrow. They
[03:55:22] can coexist.
[03:55:24] And then the another note a friend wrote
[03:55:28] her her brother was really good friends
[03:55:30] with Trey. She's one of my best friends.
[03:55:32] >> How do you do that? How do you find joy
[03:55:34] and sorrow if you figured that out?
[03:55:37] >> Well, that's what these signs tell me to
[03:55:40] have. And if you listen to them, you
[03:55:43] know, that's Gabe like Panthers want
[03:55:45] smile, chill out.
[03:55:48] And uh these signs, that's what I always
[03:55:50] get. It's like a chill out like you have
[03:55:52] so many blessings, so many things to be
[03:55:54] grateful for.
[03:55:55] Like focus on that and um but you it
[03:55:59] doesn't fix the sorrow but joy and
[03:56:02] sorrow can coexist and you can find
[03:56:05] purpose in the pain and um that's why I
[03:56:10] am so energized by the work I do. People
[03:56:12] are like, "Aren't you exhausted?" It's
[03:56:14] like constantly I I've gotten rid of the
[03:56:17] drug dealer phone now and I just like
[03:56:18] use my normal phone. I'm not so scared
[03:56:20] of the Canacult at this point. Um they
[03:56:24] should be scared of me, not the other
[03:56:25] way around. Um and they are now that
[03:56:28] I've seen Trey's NDA after September
[03:56:30] 1st. I know exactly why they're so
[03:56:31] scared of Trey and of me. Uh Canuck
[03:56:34] specifically demanded the NDA. Uh not
[03:56:37] the insurance company, not the other
[03:56:39] defendants.
[03:56:40] they tacked on more money if he would
[03:56:42] sign the NDA and his lawyer let him do
[03:56:45] it and uh he called it blood money.
[03:56:49] Um and so
[03:56:52] this third note I got from my friend
[03:56:55] whose brother was close with Trey, she
[03:56:58] said, "God's work
[03:57:01] is not done with Trey yet."
[03:57:05] And that gets me up in the morning and
[03:57:09] gives me the fight I need to have. Um I
[03:57:13] don't know if you feel this with like
[03:57:15] Gabe or others that have been close to
[03:57:16] you that you've lost, but um they're
[03:57:19] okay. They're whole and healed.
[03:57:21] >> Oh yeah.
[03:57:22] >> We're the ones left behind uh to do the
[03:57:25] work that the lessons they taught us
[03:57:28] tell us to do. And if you can't have joy
[03:57:31] in that, uh, I think it's a slap in the
[03:57:34] face to your loved one on the other
[03:57:36] side.
[03:57:37] They don't want us to be sad every time
[03:57:41] we think of them. And so they send us
[03:57:43] these little glimmers and they send us
[03:57:45] these and call them god winks sometimes.
[03:57:49] These
[03:57:49] >> got to be paying attention though.
[03:57:51] >> You have to be open to it and you have
[03:57:53] to be paying attention. Um, and if you
[03:57:57] are,
[03:57:59] then it becomes sustainable, at least
[03:58:02] for me. All right, this is so
[03:58:04] depressing. I mean, yeah, I'm just here,
[03:58:06] Sean, to lighten the lighten the mood
[03:58:08] today about child rape. And [laughter]
[03:58:12] I hope your next guest is like something
[03:58:15] uh
[03:58:15] >> Oh, you want to know who my next guest
[03:58:17] is?
[03:58:17] >> Who is it?
[03:58:18] >> Ro Kana.
[03:58:19] >> Oh,
[03:58:20] >> we're talking about the Epstein Files.
[03:58:22] >> Good. I can't wait to watch that.
[03:58:25] We posted one of his quotes on our
[03:58:26] Trey's law social media. He had some
[03:58:28] good ones and um yeah, I'll be real
[03:58:30] curious to hear what he has to say about
[03:58:32] that. Um
[03:58:34] >> yeah, him and Massie really blew the lid
[03:58:35] off of that.
[03:58:36] >> Thank God somebody [ __ ] had the nuts
[03:58:38] to do it, right?
[03:58:40] >> I respect and stand with those survivors
[03:58:44] so much because they've been waiting for
[03:58:45] 20 years. And I mean, Kanagook's about
[03:58:48] to catch up to it because it's been like
[03:58:50] Pete Newman's been in prison for 16
[03:58:52] years. Yeah.
[03:58:53] >> Um, but there are thousand there's over
[03:58:55] a thousand Epstein victims
[03:58:58] and uh,
[03:59:00] no justice
[03:59:03] and I'm glad that the public is pressing
[03:59:05] in and putting pressure on the files
[03:59:08] being released, whatever that looks
[03:59:10] like. I don't I couldn't tell you
[03:59:12] tactically how to do that, but it can't
[03:59:14] be that hard.
[03:59:21] keep calling it out. I appreciate you.
[03:59:24] >> I will. Well, I appreciate you. But um
[03:59:29] Ann, thank you.
[03:59:31] >> Thank you.
[03:59:31] >> Thank you for coming. Thank you for what
[03:59:34] you're doing.
[03:59:35] >> It's a sacred honor.
[03:59:38] >> Let me know if I can help anymore.
[03:59:40] >> I'll be in touch.
[03:59:41] >> I'd love to jump in. All right.
[03:59:47] >> [music]
[03:59:55] [music]
[03:59:58] >> No matter where you're watching the
[04:00:00] Shawn Ryan Show from, if you get
[04:00:02] anything out of this at all, anything,
[04:00:05] please like, comment, and subscribe. And
[04:00:09] most importantly, share this everywhere
[04:00:13] you possibly can. And if you're feeling
[04:00:16] extra generous, head to Apple Podcast
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