Breaking The Seige: Greg Stoker on Israel's Psychological Warfare of Sumud Flotilla

[00:00:00] We are now joined by Greg Stoker. Um he [00:00:04] is a uh veteran who served a couple [00:00:08] rounds in Afghanistan and he [00:00:12] has turned into a he's transformed [00:00:15] himself into an anti-war activist. He's [00:00:17] also a journalist with Mint Press News. [00:00:20] He's one of our staffers and he joins us [00:00:23] now from the Samud Flotilla. is leading [00:00:25] the veteran boat which is there to break [00:00:29] the siege on Gaza. Greg, thank you so [00:00:32] much for joining us today. [00:00:33] >> Yeah, thanks for having me. I think we [00:00:35] solved the uh the audio issues on the [00:00:38] flotilla, but um I'm on a completely [00:00:39] dark deck and all I've got for a light [00:00:41] source is this. So, sorry about the [00:00:43] video quality. [00:00:46] >> That's okay, Greg. As long as we can [00:00:47] hear you. Um we want we want to hear [00:00:49] what you have to say. you run a live [00:00:52] stream at Mitress News and um on the uh [00:00:56] Outcast podcast that you also run on [00:00:59] your own and you provide incredible [00:01:02] analysis on the military and on Israel. [00:01:06] And so I think a lot of people are [00:01:08] curious to know [00:01:10] what happened in the days ahead of [00:01:13] leaving the Tunisian docks when Israeli [00:01:16] drones literally targeted [00:01:20] the some wood flatillas. [00:01:23] >> Yeah. Okay. So, um I know first of all I [00:01:27] can't say as like a journalist that we [00:01:29] have connected um anything to the [00:01:32] Israeli government. First of all, they [00:01:34] were just DI DJI drones. This is [00:01:37] something you could purchase um at any [00:01:39] sort of drone retailer. Uh the explosive [00:01:42] itself that was dropped on the Alma the [00:01:44] second night was basically just a smoke [00:01:47] grenade, an M class M14 class smoke [00:01:50] grenade uh which you know due to the [00:01:52] historic conflicts in the region is [00:01:54] impossible to track its supply lines. It [00:01:57] was put inside a bag or next to a [00:01:59] plastic bag of incel accelerant like [00:02:01] gasoline. And basically what happened is [00:02:03] what we think or what my analysis would [00:02:05] be was that a drone flew over the ship [00:02:08] uh dropped a servo arm, released the [00:02:11] package that had a pull trigger on it [00:02:13] and that ignited the bag of accelerant [00:02:16] and it landed on the deck. The smoke [00:02:18] grenade didn't cook off um because it [00:02:21] didn't have a heat threshold and the [00:02:22] contraption was not uh properly [00:02:25] manufactured and then the firefighting [00:02:27] response which was really uh fast on the [00:02:29] crew's behalf was able to put it out [00:02:31] quickly. So I think going forward we can [00:02:33] see other methods of sabotage but not [00:02:36] using Israeli equipment. This is all [00:02:38] stuff you could get in the region in the [00:02:40] city of Tunis itself. There's nothing [00:02:41] that really ties it to it but it could [00:02:43] have been a third party actor with [00:02:45] Zionist sympathies. But as you can see [00:02:48] um it was really sloppily done. The [00:02:50] contraption itself really didn't go off. [00:02:52] And what it did allow us to do was [00:02:55] revamp our security and drone reporting [00:02:57] parameters. So it actually helped the [00:02:59] flotilla. So we're heading along now. [00:03:01] We're just south of the coast of Sicily [00:03:03] about to uh link up with the Italian [00:03:05] flotillaa and try to head uh to Gaza [00:03:09] altogether. However, there's um some [00:03:11] pretty strong gale force winds coming in [00:03:13] tomorrow, so we're going to have to make [00:03:14] some weather decisions. I would like to [00:03:16] remind everybody that this is going to [00:03:18] be a multi-week process. We are under [00:03:20] sail. Um, we didn't use any commercial [00:03:23] ships or any fishing vessels because um, [00:03:27] they require different licenses which [00:03:29] are really open to sabotage and [00:03:31] bureaucratic warfare. So, we're all on [00:03:33] like private sailing vessels that we [00:03:35] cobbled together through a grassroots [00:03:37] funding campaign. So, we're going there [00:03:39] a little slowly. We Everybody wishes we [00:03:41] could go faster. We wish we could go [00:03:43] faster because as we know right now the [00:03:46] um as of a few hours ago, we've learned [00:03:48] that the Israeli military uh during [00:03:50] their assault uh on Gaza has shut down [00:03:53] all internet and the only people that [00:03:55] can now transmit are people with eims [00:03:57] and it's almost impossible and it takes [00:03:59] a long time to upload videos. So this is [00:04:01] very intentional as they you know set [00:04:04] the stage for the final solution in Gaza [00:04:06] that they are shutting out the internet. [00:04:07] So what they're doing right now at this [00:04:09] moment at time of recording happens in [00:04:12] darkness. [00:04:14] >> Absolutely. And we commend you and all [00:04:17] of the participants in the Islam [00:04:19] flatillaa for their absolute bravery in [00:04:22] trying to break this siege uh for Gaza. [00:04:26] Um you know Gaza is facing a [00:04:28] catastrophic level uh five for famine. [00:04:31] The children there, the women, the [00:04:33] fathers, those that are left in Gaza are [00:04:35] starving. There's no food left in Gaza. [00:04:37] and no clean water and the participants [00:04:39] in the flotillaa are standing up to uh [00:04:42] an outofcontrol apartheid state engaging [00:04:45] in this ethnic cleansing campaign. What [00:04:47] do you expect Israel to do as you [00:04:50] approach uh the coast of Gaza? Because [00:04:53] you know one flotillaa going in maybe [00:04:56] not that big of a deal, two flotillas [00:04:58] going maybe not that big of a deal but [00:04:59] now you guys are a group of about 40 or [00:05:01] more flotillas heading to Gaza. How will [00:05:03] Israel react to that? What do you think [00:05:05] will happen? Yeah. Well, the standing [00:05:07] number here is anywhere between 40 and [00:05:10] 50 ships right now. Um, just because [00:05:12] operational parameters because a lot of [00:05:14] these are private vessels. A lot of [00:05:15] these were donated at the last minute. [00:05:18] Uh, not all of them are going to make [00:05:19] it. There's going to be mechanical [00:05:20] failures. Uh, some ships are going to [00:05:22] fall out in route. Uh but still a [00:05:24] historic and unprecedented amount of [00:05:26] ships are going to enter uh [00:05:28] international waters off the coast of [00:05:31] the Gaza Strip in order to try and [00:05:32] establish a humanitarian corridor into [00:05:36] the Gaza Strip and to a people facing [00:05:38] existential annihilation. So uh the [00:05:40] Israeli milit navy is pretty small. It's [00:05:44] only got about 60 ships, 45 patrol [00:05:46] boats, couple missile cruisers, sorry, [00:05:48] seven to eight cruisers and five [00:05:50] submarines. Um, do they have the [00:05:53] capacity to intercept all ships? Well, I [00:05:56] guess we're going to find out. I suspect [00:05:58] they do. Um, and so like we get a lot of [00:06:01] hate about isn't this performative [00:06:03] activism? Uh, aren't you just going to [00:06:05] get intercepted anyways? But I would [00:06:07] push back to say like, why would you [00:06:08] frame it that way? What we're doing is [00:06:10] actually literally protected under [00:06:11] international law and international [00:06:13] maritime law, which the US Navy, by the [00:06:15] way, is supposed to uphold. It just [00:06:17] chooses not to when it comes to Israel. [00:06:19] But um yeah, if they block it, it would [00:06:22] be a violation of international law. Of [00:06:24] course, that no longer means anything [00:06:25] after 2 years of unmitigated genocide. [00:06:28] But you know, we are going to still [00:06:29] stand um and try to deliver aid. We are [00:06:32] waging an existential information war [00:06:35] for the survival of uh of the people in [00:06:38] Gaza. And you know, a lot of things have [00:06:40] happened recently. Their entire [00:06:41] propaganda re uh apparatus is on the [00:06:44] back foot. And there's a lot of things [00:06:45] going on with that. But the UN yesterday [00:06:48] just declared that a genocide was [00:06:50] finally happening in Gaza. Uh they're [00:06:52] still reeling from that. And if you look [00:06:53] at their engagement with the flotillaa [00:06:55] itself, their Hazbar is not really [00:06:58] engaging with us yet. We're a problem [00:07:00] that they don't really want to deal with [00:07:02] because [00:07:04] again it's unprecedented. They've never [00:07:06] done it before and it's not a it's not a [00:07:08] good look. It's not really legally [00:07:10] defensible. So, what they're hoping to [00:07:12] do um is hope they hope it collapses [00:07:15] before we even get there. But, um we've [00:07:18] already passed the stages of [00:07:19] bureaucratic warfare where they tried to [00:07:21] pressure ships captains and the ports [00:07:23] and local governments to pull ships [00:07:26] insurance, pull flags so we can't um [00:07:28] sail into international waters, shut [00:07:30] down the harbors. That didn't work. So, [00:07:33] now I think we're looking towards [00:07:34] intense psychological operations once we [00:07:36] get closer. you know, the same things [00:07:38] that they do to journalists in Gaza, [00:07:40] like calling their cell phones, [00:07:41] threatening, doxing. Um I I've suggested [00:07:45] that everybody in the flotilla gets an [00:07:46] internet scrubbing uh device cuz if they [00:07:48] don't do it, like Israeli military [00:07:50] doesn't do it well. A lot of the hazar [00:07:52] will uh try to dox activists, [00:07:54] journalists, uh MPs on the flotilla and [00:07:57] all the way up to Ben Gavir threatening [00:07:59] us with long-term uh prison sentences [00:08:02] and terror dungeons. But um is it [00:08:05] politically viable? Well, I guess we'll [00:08:06] find out. But anyways, we're going to [00:08:08] keep sailing and there the rogue [00:08:10] genocidal apartheid state's going to do [00:08:12] what it's going to do and the world will [00:08:14] be our judge. You know, I think a lot of [00:08:16] people, especially in uh the US empire, [00:08:19] which is where this begins and ends um [00:08:23] are really sick of it. Uh you know, [00:08:25] currently right now as we speak, there [00:08:27] are 250 [00:08:29] US state representatives at the state [00:08:33] level in Israel for the 50 states. one [00:08:36] Israel conference. Um, so if you, a lot [00:08:39] of people have been asking, how do you [00:08:40] want to support the flotilla? Well, we [00:08:42] don't need money anymore, but if you [00:08:43] live in the United States, please, [00:08:46] there's five representatives from each [00:08:47] state currently in Israel going through [00:08:50] a paid propaganda trip that where um [00:08:52] that's meant to enforce and lobby for [00:08:55] anti-BDS legislation on the state level. [00:08:58] So if you really want to support this [00:09:00] flotilla, you can do parallel actions [00:09:02] with us back home and let your state [00:09:04] representatives know what you think [00:09:05] about that. [00:09:09] >> Absolutely. And that's what democracy [00:09:11] looks like, right? Um speaking of [00:09:12] democracy, Greg, you are an American. [00:09:14] You are a former soldier at that and now [00:09:18] anti-war activist. How is the United [00:09:21] States um dealing with a boat of [00:09:23] veterans heading to Gaza? [00:09:28] Uh well actually Lloyd Dogget, my state [00:09:30] representative, my congressional [00:09:32] representative out of Texas made a [00:09:33] statement that I should be allowed to [00:09:35] pass. Uh beyond beyond that, we haven't [00:09:37] really heard anything. Again, like [00:09:39] veterans and activist spaces, especially [00:09:42] that tra uh challenge the government are [00:09:44] not um we're kind of a nuisance. First [00:09:47] of all, the support our troops thing, [00:09:48] they don't really care about vets or [00:09:50] anything like that. They're just a [00:09:51] propaganda piece for when they need [00:09:53] military recruitment. But um we're not [00:09:56] really sure. Uh so what we expect going [00:09:58] forward is like not the government to d [00:10:02] uh address us directly, but they have a [00:10:03] lot of paid actors, especially on X and [00:10:06] other social media that will do like [00:10:08] investigations into our personal lives [00:10:10] and try to discredit us with stolen [00:10:12] valor accusations, but everybody, all [00:10:14] the veterans on board this boat have [00:10:17] been vetted. There is no uh stolen valor [00:10:20] accusations. Everybody has been [00:10:22] investigated and we're good to go. So, [00:10:24] um I think they'll probably just try to [00:10:26] ignore us as best we can. Of course, no [00:10:29] flo no US citizen from any of the [00:10:32] flotillas that has been arrested um by [00:10:35] uh the Israeli military or kidnapped [00:10:38] rather on the high seas uh and put into [00:10:40] immigration detention has ever had any [00:10:43] support from the US consulate in Israel. [00:10:46] And of course, you know, our [00:10:47] representative there is Mike Huckabe, [00:10:49] the notorious Christian evangelical [00:10:51] Zionist. So he's not going to do [00:10:53] anything for us. But our position in [00:10:56] terms of messaging inside this flotillaa [00:10:58] is to show to Americans that, you know, [00:11:01] our greatest ally is, you know, of [00:11:03] course, uh, imprisoning veterans, but [00:11:05] also to explain to people like we know [00:11:07] firsthand that whatever violence and [00:11:09] repression we conduct overseas is always [00:11:13] used back on our own people. you know, [00:11:15] uh, the same mechanisms of, uh, spyw [00:11:18] wear and surveillance tech that enforces [00:11:20] occupation and apartheid in Palestine is [00:11:22] at a militarized local police department [00:11:25] near you. So, if you accept the premise [00:11:28] that fascism is on the rise in America, [00:11:30] needs to be challenged. Well, we believe [00:11:32] personally that the front line of that [00:11:36] is actually Palestine because it is the [00:11:38] lynch pin of all our colonial and [00:11:40] imperial violence that we are still [00:11:42] enacting in 2025. And that redowns back [00:11:45] to every aspect of American life. [00:11:49] >> Absolutely. You make a very good point [00:11:50] and that was pretty much the premise of [00:11:52] my monologue and some of the things that [00:11:54] Allan uh provided on Israel's [00:11:57] surveillance tech. Can you tell us a [00:11:59] little bit more about your background, [00:12:01] Greg, and why you chose to join the [00:12:03] flatillaa? [00:12:05] >> Yeah, I'm a former uh US Army Ranger, [00:12:08] which is a special operations unit [00:12:09] within the US Army. Um, I did four [00:12:12] combat deployments to Afghanistan. Uh, [00:12:15] dabbled a little bit in human [00:12:16] intelligence collection. Uh, and you [00:12:19] know, over the years after not just [00:12:22] being disillusioned by Obama's drone [00:12:24] strike campaign and special operations, [00:12:26] uh, assault tempo, uh, just formal [00:12:29] education about, you know, what was [00:12:32] imperialism and colonialism, and then [00:12:33] all the a senseless war that I didn't [00:12:36] understand all started to make sense. [00:12:38] So, I'm here because, you know, I stand [00:12:42] in opposition to a self-destructive [00:12:45] system of violence that not only [00:12:47] destroys [00:12:48] countries and people and lives in the [00:12:50] global south, but our own all in service [00:12:52] to a.1% ruling elite that dominates our [00:12:56] politics and, you know, presents us with [00:12:59] the veneer of democracy when it doesn't [00:13:01] really exist. So I also refuse to live [00:13:04] in a world where we can uh you know just [00:13:06] sit at brunch where an entire people are [00:13:08] annihilated because at the end of the [00:13:10] day even if you don't really have a lot [00:13:13] of empathy you have to understand and [00:13:15] realize that whatever this is what the [00:13:16] ruling class has decided is normal to [00:13:19] delete an entire population for a real [00:13:22] estate development deal and ideology and [00:13:25] whatever they're willing to do to [00:13:26] Palestinians they're willing to do to [00:13:28] you too. Hey, Blackstone. The same [00:13:31] companies and corporations that are bu [00:13:33] bidding for development contracts in [00:13:35] Gaza right now are the same ones that [00:13:37] bought up all the single family homes [00:13:40] during COVID. And that's why you can't [00:13:41] pay rent and that's why ever buy a house [00:13:44] and that's why you will keep working [00:13:46] until you die. So, it's all connected [00:13:49] and uh I'm using my position here on the [00:13:51] flotilla to try to spread that message [00:13:55] >> and that is absolutely commendable, [00:13:57] Greg. We appreciate this uh beautiful [00:13:59] transformation that you have had um in [00:14:02] calling out the US Empire. Um I'm [00:14:06] curious to know, I mean, based on what [00:14:07] you're you're saying, looking at uh the [00:14:09] aftermath of Charlie Kirk's [00:14:11] assassination, what do you see happening [00:14:13] in the United States with all of these [00:14:15] new attempts for legislation to crack [00:14:18] down on disscent? [00:14:21] So of course like we can make the uh [00:14:25] observation that um hang on I wrote that [00:14:30] you know martyrs are used kind of by [00:14:32] these messianic movements to sanctify [00:14:35] violence right uh you know chart the [00:14:38] canonization and the sanctification of [00:14:41] Charlie Kirk as this saint who believed [00:14:43] in free speech and dialogue with [00:14:46] political opponents is meant to you know [00:14:48] mobilize a movement [00:14:50] um against any sort of like leftwing or [00:14:52] progressive movement because they killed [00:14:54] him. So the the the assassination of [00:14:57] Charlie Kirk is actually really [00:14:58] concerning to me because it raises the [00:15:01] threat assessment for the flotilla in a [00:15:03] very real way because the Trump [00:15:05] administration is now framing any action [00:15:07] that it doesn't like and it doesn't like [00:15:09] this action as left-wing. You know, this [00:15:12] entire flotilla action is a left-wing [00:15:14] endeavor. That's what people say about [00:15:16] it. So, will um will they give more [00:15:19] cover for Israel to act with impunity? [00:15:21] We've seen what the Trump administration [00:15:24] and um and the US Navy has been doing [00:15:26] off the coast of Venezuela, killing a a [00:15:28] boat full of 11 people uh with a drone [00:15:32] strike and then recently another boat in [00:15:35] violation of ne um international law, [00:15:38] extrajudicial killings. Um, everything [00:15:41] that's happening right now is making the [00:15:43] world from a global security position a [00:15:46] whole heck of a lot less safe. Uh, and [00:15:48] the assassination of Charlie Kirk is [00:15:50] just going to be used to fuel fire uh, [00:15:52] for more impunity, more extrajudicial [00:15:55] policing and executions. And that's what [00:15:58] we have to look forward to. But I know [00:16:00] the night's dark, but um [00:16:03] there is a lot less cohesion and unity [00:16:08] on the right than a lot of the [00:16:10] propagandists [00:16:11] uh would like you to suspect. Uh Candace [00:16:14] Owens recently came out yesterday with [00:16:16] one of her biggest live streams about [00:16:18] how this wasn't a leftight issue. Uh [00:16:21] this was a ruling class versus [00:16:23] workingass issue. So like there is a lot [00:16:25] of transformation happening within the [00:16:28] American political landscape. You know [00:16:30] uh left-wing factions, liberal factions, [00:16:33] right-wing factions are kind of like [00:16:35] dissolving and changing and coming [00:16:37] together in a way that we can't really [00:16:39] anticipate. So yes, about 7 days after [00:16:42] the assassination of Charlie Kirk, [00:16:43] temperatures are still really high, but [00:16:45] uh the civil war ain't happening yet [00:16:47] because there isn't even that kind of [00:16:49] unity among right-wing circles, even [00:16:52] though they are in shock by what [00:16:53] happened. But in the immediate term, [00:16:55] that does make the flotilla a lot less [00:16:57] safe, this demonization of left-wing [00:17:00] political actions because I don't know [00:17:01] what are they going to do, say that [00:17:02] we're Hamas and then authorize naval [00:17:04] strikes on us. So, we're just going to [00:17:06] take it day by day and try to preempt [00:17:09] Israeli military action and US impunity [00:17:11] by calling it out and making it [00:17:13] politically nonviable. We are, of [00:17:15] course, are humanitarian flotillaa and [00:17:17] we have a strict uh practice of [00:17:19] nonviolence attempting to establish a [00:17:22] humanitarian corridor into Gaza and [00:17:24] that's all we can really say and all we [00:17:26] can really do. [00:17:28] >> And I was just about to say the same [00:17:29] thing. This is a humanitarian corridor. [00:17:31] There are no weapons aboard these ships. [00:17:33] And Greg, we just have 2 minutes left. [00:17:36] Um, can you tell us, uh, what you plan [00:17:39] on doing when and if you arrive in Gaza? [00:17:44] >> So, um, a lot of these ships again are [00:17:47] small. They have a minimal amount of [00:17:49] aid. What we want to, I mean, there are [00:17:52] larger, larger command ships that have a [00:17:54] considerable amount of diesel aid, a lot [00:17:56] of water. I'm on a 14t boat. Um, our job [00:18:00] is to just be there. uh stand in [00:18:02] solidarity, deliver what aid we have um [00:18:06] and then sail to another port, establish [00:18:08] a precedent of this actually working and [00:18:11] continue to send flotillas and small [00:18:13] streams of aid in and out in and out. [00:18:16] And then once this movement gains uh [00:18:19] viability, people see that it's [00:18:21] possible, then we'll start seeing a [00:18:23] higher volume of commercial traffic or [00:18:25] independent traffic to try and attempt [00:18:28] to deliver aid into Gaza. Israel can't [00:18:30] really tolerate that. So we are [00:18:32] definitely going to come to a place or [00:18:34] an impass in international waters about [00:18:37] this. But that is the intention. It's [00:18:39] not to save the people. We don't have [00:18:41] the cargo capacity to do it. But what we [00:18:44] can do and what we want to do is set the [00:18:46] precedent to show other people that it [00:18:48] can be done so more and more and more [00:18:50] people mobilize to do the same thing. [00:18:55] >> Absolutely. and Greg, we commend you for [00:18:57] all of your efforts in trying to help [00:18:59] the people of Thank you so much for [00:19:02] joining us today.