Graham Joins Kristen Welker to Discuss the Govt. Shutdown & Conflicts in the Middle East, Ukraine

[00:00:01] Welcome back. Joining me now is [00:00:02] Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of [00:00:04] South Carolina. Senator Graham, welcome [00:00:06] back to Meet the Press. [00:00:08] >> Good morning. Thank you. [00:00:10] >> Good morning. Thank you so much for [00:00:11] being here. Let's start with the big [00:00:14] story, the Middle East. Again, just [00:00:16] heard me talking about it with both of [00:00:18] my prior guests on this program in July. [00:00:21] Senator, you said, quote, "There's no [00:00:24] way you're going to negotiate an end of [00:00:28] this war with Hamas." Do you believe [00:00:30] that this deal will bring a lasting [00:00:33] peace in Gaza? [00:00:37] >> Well, I hope so. And I said in July. [00:00:39] Now, what happened since July to now [00:00:41] basically is that the IDF has [00:00:43] obliterated Hamas as we know it. So, [00:00:46] hats off to Woodco and Jared and the [00:00:48] president. The Arabs came in unlike any [00:00:51] time before to push uh to push for the [00:00:54] ceasefire. The Israelis have accepted [00:00:56] things they had not accepted before. But [00:00:59] the ceasefire is coming. There's a [00:01:01] perfect storm for peace brewing in the [00:01:03] Middle East. But whether or not uh Hamas [00:01:06] will disarm. Whether or not there will [00:01:08] be control of Gaza after this ceasefire [00:01:11] that we can all live with is a very big [00:01:14] question. There are three pieces of the [00:01:16] puzzle. Iran, which is the weakest [00:01:19] they've been since 1979. [00:01:21] The Arabs, which are closer to Trump [00:01:24] than any time I can remember in the M [00:01:26] East. closeness to a president and [00:01:29] Israel who trust Trump a lot. So all [00:01:31] these things fall together, but there'll [00:01:33] never be peace in the Middle East until [00:01:35] you deal with Hezbollah and Lebanon and [00:01:38] the Hoodies because they're proxies of [00:01:40] Iran. But I'm excited about tomorrow. [00:01:43] This will be a great day to get the [00:01:45] hostages uh away from their bondage and [00:01:47] their torture. And hopefully that will [00:01:50] build to a lasting peace, but we have a [00:01:53] long way to go. I still don't trust [00:01:55] Hamas any further than I can throw him. [00:01:58] >> Yeah, Senator, as you lay this out, [00:02:01] there are still a lot of complicated [00:02:02] steps that need to be taken. President [00:02:04] Trump's 20point plan, as you know, opens [00:02:07] the door for Palestinian statehood. But [00:02:10] Prime Minister Netanyahu said this. He [00:02:12] said, quote, "We are firmly opposed to a [00:02:14] Palestinian state even after signing the [00:02:17] plan." So, Senator, let me ask you, does [00:02:20] Israel need to accept a two-state [00:02:22] solution in order for any peace to be [00:02:24] enduring? [00:02:27] >> Uh, to my friends in Israel, uh, there [00:02:29] will there will not be normalization [00:02:33] between Saudi Arabia and Israel unless [00:02:35] we come up with a plan to allow the [00:02:38] Palestinians to have an independent, [00:02:40] sovereign country uh, that doesn't [00:02:43] threaten Israel. uh to my Western [00:02:46] European friends and allies, there'll [00:02:48] never be a Palestinian state after [00:02:51] October 7th. Uh as it as previously [00:02:54] envisioned, the borders will have to [00:02:56] change to make sure Israel's never [00:02:58] attacked again. It won't be a state. It [00:03:01] will be more like an emirate. It will [00:03:03] probably be a protectorate of Saudi [00:03:05] Arabia. But to those who want to annex [00:03:07] the West Bank, if you tried to do that [00:03:09] in Israel, you'd blow all this up. to [00:03:12] those who want to push a state on Israel [00:03:15] as if October the 7th never happened, [00:03:17] you're going to fail miserably. But I do [00:03:19] believe there's a pathway forward to an [00:03:21] independent sovereign Palestine that [00:03:24] Israel will can accept and live with. [00:03:27] But that's going to take a lot of work. [00:03:28] And none of that's possible until you [00:03:30] get rid of Hezbollah because Hezbollah [00:03:33] will do the same thing in the future to [00:03:35] blow this up as Hamas did in the past in [00:03:38] the past. So you got to keep Iran in the [00:03:40] box. [00:03:41] >> All right. But I do want to turn to [00:03:43] another war that President Trump has [00:03:45] been focused on trying to end. The war [00:03:47] in Ukraine. Of course, Senator, it has [00:03:49] been 58 days now since President Trump [00:03:52] and President Putin met in Alaska. [00:03:54] Russia has only stepped up its attacks [00:03:57] against Ukraine. On Saturday, President [00:04:00] Zalinski renewed his plea to President [00:04:02] Trump for long range missiles. Do you [00:04:05] believe the United States should supply [00:04:08] more weapons to Ukraine right now, [00:04:10] including those Tomahawk longrange [00:04:12] missiles? [00:04:15] >> Absolutely. I want more weapons in the [00:04:17] hands of the Ukrainians to increase the [00:04:19] cost of the war to Putin, hit his [00:04:21] refineries, go into Russia deep and be [00:04:24] able to destroy his oil infrastructure. [00:04:26] He cannot prosecute this war Putin [00:04:29] without oil and gas revenue. There's two [00:04:31] ways to deal with that. have uh the [00:04:33] Ukrainians used military force to [00:04:35] degrade his ability to produce and sell [00:04:37] oil, but also to go to the international [00:04:40] community uh China, India, and Brazil, [00:04:43] and have them stop buying cheap Russian [00:04:45] oil. President Trump put a 25% tariff on [00:04:48] India for buying cheap Russian oil, [00:04:50] which keeps the war going. I hope the [00:04:52] Europeans will follow his lead and will [00:04:54] focus on China next. Until you deal with [00:04:57] the revenue that Putin gets from oil and [00:04:59] gas, this war won't end. But long range [00:05:02] missiles will change the calculation [00:05:04] militarily and we need to go after [00:05:06] Putin's customers in a strong way. [00:05:08] Secondly, we don't talk enough about [00:05:10] this. There are 19,000 plus children [00:05:13] been kidnapped by Russia in the occupied [00:05:15] territories. Our first lady, Melania, [00:05:18] has been talking to the Russians and six [00:05:20] children have been released. I want to [00:05:22] tell you today on your program that on [00:05:25] October the 22nd, a couple of weeks from [00:05:27] now, the Senate Foreign Relations [00:05:29] Committee will mark up my bill along [00:05:31] with many others making Russia a state [00:05:34] sponsor of terrorism under United States [00:05:36] law unless they release these almost [00:05:38] 20,000 children. We're going to do that [00:05:41] uh October the 22nd. And as to my [00:05:44] sanctions bill with 85 co-sponsors [00:05:46] allowing the president to tariff people [00:05:48] who buy cheap Russian oil, I want to [00:05:50] vote on that uh a designated date for a [00:05:54] vote by the end of October to put more [00:05:56] pressure. [00:05:57] >> All right, a lot of news and you heard [00:05:58] it here first, Senator. Thank you for [00:06:01] that. I want to turn to the big issue [00:06:03] faking facing Congress back at home. Of [00:06:06] course, the Trump administration this [00:06:07] week announcing mass layoffs in the face [00:06:10] of this shutdown. Thousands of federal [00:06:12] employees impacted. Your Republican [00:06:15] colleague, Senator Lisa Marowski, called [00:06:18] the layoffs punitive and said they would [00:06:20] hurt hardworking Americans. Senator, do [00:06:24] you support these mass layoffs, which [00:06:27] are not required under the rules of a [00:06:29] shutdown? [00:06:32] >> I think JD got it right. When you don't [00:06:33] have any really money come in, you got [00:06:35] to make some decisions. I'm glad we're [00:06:36] trying to find a way to pay the [00:06:38] military. But what about the FBI? What [00:06:40] about the CIA? What about the Secret [00:06:42] Service? You know, we shut the [00:06:43] government down for 35 days, [00:06:45] Republicans, trying to force the [00:06:47] Democrats to build the border wall. [00:06:50] Well, we eventually got the wall built, [00:06:51] but not because we shut down the [00:06:53] government. The U subsidies that we're [00:06:56] talking about here, uh, if the, you [00:06:59] know, if the Affordable Care Act is so [00:07:02] affordable, why every time I turn around [00:07:05] are we spending $350 billion to keep it [00:07:07] afloat? Whether the government shut down [00:07:10] or not, I'm not going to vote to extend [00:07:12] these subsidies without great reform. [00:07:14] And to my Democratic colleagues like [00:07:16] Mark Kelly, who I like like a lot, I'm [00:07:19] not going to talk to you with a [00:07:20] government shutdown. [00:07:21] >> Senator, though, going back to this idea [00:07:23] of layoffs, you talked about that [00:07:24] shutdown back in 2019, 35 days, no [00:07:28] workers were laid off. Why is it [00:07:31] necessary now when it wasn't necessary [00:07:34] then? Is this anything more than a [00:07:35] political ploy? [00:07:38] Yeah. Well, from you had four years of [00:07:40] Biden where the government grew in a [00:07:41] bunch of areas. It got very kind of out [00:07:44] of line with common sense. So, I think [00:07:46] Trump's going to look at a chance to [00:07:48] clean up the mess that Biden created in [00:07:51] terms of growing the federal government, [00:07:53] putting in policies in the federal [00:07:55] government that we don't like that can [00:07:57] only survive if you have people [00:07:59] implementing the policies. I don't want [00:08:01] anybody to lose their job because of a [00:08:03] shutdown. I hate it when people get [00:08:05] furled. I hate it. The military can't [00:08:08] can't get paid. The FBI hate all that. [00:08:10] I'm willing to vote to open the [00:08:11] government up tomorrow. To my Democratic [00:08:14] friends, I am not going to vote to [00:08:15] extend these subsidies. It costs $350 [00:08:18] billion. If you make over $400,000, you [00:08:22] get subsidies for your health care. [00:08:24] Let's have a rational discussion, but [00:08:26] not with a government shutdown. It's up [00:08:28] to you. If you want to keep it shut [00:08:29] down, fine. It's not going to change how [00:08:31] I approach healthcare. Let me finally [00:08:33] ask you about these indictments that we [00:08:36] have seen the indictment against Leticia [00:08:39] James and James Comey as well. Uh NBC [00:08:43] News again has confirmed that that post [00:08:46] that President Trump put on Truth Social [00:08:48] was actually meant to be a private [00:08:50] message to Pam Bondi. Do you think it's [00:08:53] appropriate for the president to direct [00:08:56] his attorney general to indict whoever [00:08:58] he says? [00:09:01] Well, I think it's appropriate for Comey [00:09:04] uh to answer for his conduct five years [00:09:07] ago at a hearing we had in 2020 when I [00:09:10] asked him, "Why didn't you tell the [00:09:12] court about a sculpatory information [00:09:14] where the uh the CIA gave a memo to [00:09:17] Struck and Comey saying they there was [00:09:20] intel that Hillary Clinton's campaign [00:09:23] was creating the false narrative that [00:09:25] Russia and Trump were working together. [00:09:28] the man who created the uh steel dossier [00:09:31] recanidated in February and Comey kept [00:09:34] using the document to get warrants. So [00:09:37] yeah, I think I think the grand jury is [00:09:39] doing the right thing and Trump got [00:09:41] indicted 91 times 3 days after he [00:09:44] announced the president in February [00:09:46] 15th, 2020. Senator 91 indictments and [00:09:50] foreign jurisdictions. [00:09:51] >> But Senator, I'm asking about right now [00:09:53] and this sitting president's actions [00:09:56] right now. It's worth noting that James [00:09:59] >> the grand jury indicted them not. Yeah. [00:10:01] >> Well, James Comey and Laticia James have [00:10:03] said that they are have both said that [00:10:05] they are innocent of these crimes that [00:10:07] they've been accused of. But Senator, [00:10:09] very quickly, they'll have a chance to [00:10:11] prove it to the appearance though, [00:10:13] Senator, the fact that President Trump [00:10:16] publicly called for his attorney general [00:10:18] to indict people. Do you think that [00:10:20] crosses a line between the Justice [00:10:22] Department being independent from the [00:10:24] executive branch? [00:10:26] I think our justice department in the [00:10:29] hands of Biden crossed every line there [00:10:31] is to cross. I think within three days [00:10:33] of announcing he was going to run for [00:10:35] president in 2024. He did that in 202. [00:10:41] >> What about now? I think the grand jury [00:10:43] is going to take care of this. But you [00:10:45] didn't care any about this. You didn't [00:10:47] care that Leticia James made up charges [00:10:50] that no one's ever faced. But Senator [00:10:52] Biden never [00:10:54] Trump to be indicted. [00:10:55] >> He had 90 Biden Biden regretted that [00:10:59] they didn't do it before the election. [00:11:01] Jack Smith surveile my phone records and [00:11:04] eight other senators. Jack Smith uh [00:11:07] introduced his brief against Trump [00:11:09] October the 24th before the 2024 [00:11:12] election, violating every protocol just [00:11:15] to politicize the election. So this may [00:11:17] bother you that people are being held [00:11:19] accountable. It doesn't bother me one [00:11:21] damn bit. [00:11:22] >> And it you're referencing the fact that [00:11:23] the FBI obtained what has been referred [00:11:25] to as basic information, date, time, [00:11:27] length of calls. Senator, we covered a [00:11:30] lot of ground. [00:11:30] >> Two weeks before the election, [00:11:31] >> we all right, we covered, Senator, we [00:11:33] covered a lot of ground as we always do. [00:11:35] Thank you so much for being here. really [00:11:37] appreciate it.