📄 Extracted Text (23,828 words)
[00:00:00] The Economist magazine describes Gaza as
[00:00:04] quote a human rubbish heap.
[00:00:08] The leading [music] UN official on Gaza
[00:00:12] describes it as quote a toxic dump for
[00:00:16] the people of Israel. Gazins are vermin.
[00:00:20] They're garbage. They're human refu.
[00:00:25] You guys were the ones that insisted
[00:00:28] insisted that we all have a perspective
[00:00:31] on October 7th. [music] Then when we
[00:00:33] looked and we pierced that veil, we
[00:00:36] went, "Oh my goodness, how was I ever
[00:00:38] perishial?" And now you want us to shut
[00:00:40] up.
[00:00:41] >> There's a problem here. A billionaire
[00:00:44] billionaire class of Jewish supremacists
[00:00:48] are now flagrantly
[00:00:51] using money as a blackmail weapon to
[00:00:55] silence not just criticism of Jews,
[00:01:00] but silence criticism of an ongoing
[00:01:05] genocide.
[00:01:09] All right, you guys. I am super excited
[00:01:11] about this conversation. Where do I
[00:01:13] begin? I'll just begin with my personal
[00:01:14] experience. October 7th took place and I
[00:01:19] remember immediately after there was
[00:01:20] sort of this peer pressure campaign to
[00:01:22] get everybody to make a statement about
[00:01:26] what had happened in Israel. And
[00:01:28] frankly,
[00:01:30] I was happy to make a statement about
[00:01:32] how tragic those events were, but I
[00:01:34] didn't I couldn't actually make a
[00:01:36] statement regarding why these events
[00:01:38] took place. Um, I didn't know what had
[00:01:41] happened prior to that day. I didn't
[00:01:43] know the history of the modern state of
[00:01:45] Israel. And when I began a what I would
[00:01:48] call a an honest inquiry into the
[00:01:51] history of the modern state of Israel, I
[00:01:54] felt that I was basically in a pressure
[00:01:57] cooker. People that I thought were my
[00:01:58] friends were telling me not to pursue
[00:02:01] this route. I didn't comprehend what
[00:02:03] they meant when they said not to pursue
[00:02:05] this route. They were calling me names,
[00:02:07] saying that I was flirting with
[00:02:09] anti-semitism by wanting to read books
[00:02:12] and speak to people that were on the
[00:02:15] opposite side of that issue. And I got
[00:02:17] into a lot of trouble, and I mean a lot
[00:02:20] of trouble from people that I thought
[00:02:21] were my friends when I hosted the person
[00:02:24] who is now sitting across from me, Norm
[00:02:26] Finkelestein, on my previous show. And
[00:02:30] the things that he told me about Gaza
[00:02:32] were shocking. It was especially
[00:02:35] shocking because this wasn't from
[00:02:36] someone that they could easily uh
[00:02:38] describe as anti-semitic giving us
[00:02:40] history which he's going to tell you
[00:02:41] about today. Very important discussion.
[00:02:44] Uh and he's also an individual that I
[00:02:46] thought quite strangely none of the
[00:02:48] people who were peer pressuring me were
[00:02:50] willing to debate. If Norm Finkelestein
[00:02:53] is wrong, and he could be, why wouldn't
[00:02:56] the most prominent voices of the
[00:02:58] pro-Israel debate be willing to sit down
[00:03:01] with him and have that discussion? We're
[00:03:03] going to figure out why. Norm
[00:03:04] Finglestein, welcome to my show.
[00:03:07] Actually, mine, totally owned by me, I
[00:03:09] can host you here.
[00:03:10] >> Oh, thank you so much for having me on
[00:03:12] the show.
[00:03:13] >> So, just in case my audience has not
[00:03:15] been introduced to you, I would first
[00:03:17] just sort of like you to and we're going
[00:03:18] to get to your books, which which are
[00:03:20] amazing to kind of tell them your
[00:03:22] backstory and your credentials and what
[00:03:25] happened despite the fact that you were
[00:03:27] so credentialed.
[00:03:30] The backstory is there's a personal
[00:03:32] element and there is a professional
[00:03:34] element. The personal element is that I
[00:03:37] am the son of survivors of the Nazi
[00:03:39] Holocaust. Both my parents were in what
[00:03:42] was called the Warsaw Ghetto. The Warsaw
[00:03:46] Ghetto was repressed after an uprising
[00:03:48] in April 1943.
[00:03:51] There were about 20 to 30,000 survivors
[00:03:55] of the Wasau ghetto uprising
[00:03:57] and they were deported to Maiden
[00:04:00] concentration camp and both my father
[00:04:03] and my mother were deported to Maidenik.
[00:04:06] My mother ended up in two slave labor
[00:04:09] camps after Maidenik and my father ended
[00:04:13] up in Avitz and he was in the Avitz
[00:04:15] death march. Every member of my family
[00:04:19] apart from my mother and father on both
[00:04:21] sides, everybody was exterminated. There
[00:04:24] were no aunts, there were no uncles,
[00:04:26] there were no grandparents, there was
[00:04:28] nothing. Um, and my parents were for
[00:04:33] reasons not worth going into now. They
[00:04:35] were decidedly on the left politically.
[00:04:39] And uh it had a very deep impact on me
[00:04:42] growing up. And in a way, even though I
[00:04:45] grew up in a lower middle-class Jewish
[00:04:47] neighborhood,
[00:04:49] uh
[00:04:51] I never quite fit in because of my
[00:04:55] family background and totally different
[00:04:58] mindset, I think. Okay, partially
[00:05:00] different mindset than my peers because
[00:05:03] of my parents' experience.
[00:05:06] Uh in June 1982, we're fast forwarding.
[00:05:10] Uh June 8, 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon
[00:05:14] and I got involved in the Israel
[00:05:16] Palestine conflict. In my youth, it was
[00:05:18] mostly the war in Vietnam, the civil
[00:05:20] rights movement. Uh in 1982, it became
[00:05:24] Israel Palestine. I end up writing my
[00:05:27] doctoral dissertation at Princeton
[00:05:31] University on the theory of Zionism.
[00:05:34] And then in 1984,
[00:05:37] there was a kind of big national
[00:05:40] bestseller quote from Time in Memorial
[00:05:42] which claimed to reveal new aspects of
[00:05:46] the Israel Palestine conflict that
[00:05:48] proved Israel was in the right and the
[00:05:50] Palestinians were in the wrong. I was
[00:05:53] still a graduate student at the time and
[00:05:56] I
[00:05:58] proved demonstrate that this book which
[00:06:00] had the endorsement of the who's who of
[00:06:03] the Jewish intellectual community back
[00:06:05] then people like Robert Tuckman who you
[00:06:08] wouldn't know Saul Bellow the novelist
[00:06:11] they all endorsed the book and I am
[00:06:14] widely credited with the one exposing
[00:06:16] that it was a hoax
[00:06:19] and uh from there on in
[00:06:22] Uh I would say after having demonstrated
[00:06:26] that this kind of humble graduate
[00:06:28] student proving that all the luminaries
[00:06:33] were either promo were promoting a
[00:06:37] threadbear hoax. Um from there on in I
[00:06:40] would say I encountered difficulties in
[00:06:42] my professional life.
[00:06:44] >> Amazing. Um so despite and you did
[00:06:48] achieve your your PhD.
[00:06:50] >> Yes. despite this, wasn't there sort of
[00:06:52] some frogus that happened where they
[00:06:54] didn't allow you back or what what
[00:06:56] happened at sort of the end of your
[00:06:57] career?
[00:06:58] >> Well,
[00:06:59] >> academic career,
[00:07:00] >> right? I would say speaking frankly and
[00:07:03] believe me, at my age, I have no
[00:07:05] interest whatsoever in invoking
[00:07:07] [clears throat] pity. It's water under
[00:07:08] the bridge. I never had an academic
[00:07:11] career. I was in academia. It's called
[00:07:15] being an adjunct. And an adjunct
[00:07:18] basically means you're hired from
[00:07:19] semester to semester. It's the
[00:07:22] equivalent of literally the equivalent
[00:07:24] of a substitute teacher ex in a public
[00:07:27] school system except a substitute
[00:07:29] teacher is paid significantly more than
[00:07:32] an adjunct.
[00:07:34] And I was never able to get beyond the
[00:07:39] adjunct status [clears throat]
[00:07:41] except one brief period at the pool
[00:07:44] university in Chicago where by uh a uh
[00:07:52] concatenation of events. I managed
[00:07:54] [clears throat] to get on a tenure track
[00:07:55] job, tenure track job. But when the
[00:07:59] moment of truth came, I was denied
[00:08:02] tenure. And after that, because it was a
[00:08:06] kind of national [clears throat] story,
[00:08:08] uh when I was denied tenure because
[00:08:11] professor Alan Dersuitz of uh Harvard
[00:08:15] University Law School made a determined
[00:08:18] public
[00:08:20] uh attempt to stop me. There was a big
[00:08:23] editorial in the Wall Street Journal by
[00:08:25] him. uh he made a very public attempt to
[00:08:28] stop me. Uh after that that was 2008
[00:08:34] 2007 after that I was completely
[00:08:37] unemployed
[00:08:39] not even adjun after that actually I
[00:08:42] know this will come as a s it will
[00:08:44] seemed kind of unbelievable I literally
[00:08:47] couldn't volunteer to teach there were
[00:08:51] places where in high schools uh a
[00:08:54] charter school for example in East
[00:08:56] Harlem where the father the principal
[00:08:59] was a friend of mine and his daughter,
[00:09:04] the principal, who was really wonderful
[00:09:07] and she ran a tight ship that was a darn
[00:09:10] good school. You could see just walking
[00:09:12] through the hallways. Um, I said, "I'll
[00:09:15] volunteer." No. No. So, at that point,
[00:09:18] after the Depool incident, uh, I was
[00:09:22] completely blacklisted, but I never got
[00:09:25] started. It never go the plane never
[00:09:27] left the tarmac.
[00:09:30] >> Well, I I do want to stress here as I
[00:09:32] have been addressing on my show that
[00:09:34] these schools are Soviet indoctrination
[00:09:37] camps. I implore people to read Thomas
[00:09:39] Soul's book about inside the American
[00:09:41] education system.
[00:09:42] >> And what he is saying fits perfectly
[00:09:44] into there. The point is to indoctrinate
[00:09:46] your children. And if you do not have a
[00:09:49] doctor, uh, so to speak, that is willing
[00:09:50] to go into the classrooms and do that
[00:09:52] indoctrination, they won't let them in.
[00:09:54] and and this is this this is absolutely
[00:09:57] proof of that. Okay. So, I want to to
[00:10:00] sort of give the same background because
[00:10:02] you were a major piece of me waking up
[00:10:04] and realizing that I knew nothing about
[00:10:06] Gaza. Could you just unpack for people
[00:10:10] who are perhaps hearing this for the
[00:10:11] first time? I think a lot of people
[00:10:12] we've seen Israel support has virtually
[00:10:15] collapsed, but uh and that's because of
[00:10:17] the behavior that's going on with the
[00:10:19] censorship has become so extreme in
[00:10:20] America. But let's actually give these
[00:10:23] people a background education like you
[00:10:25] gave me when you came on my show of what
[00:10:27] actually Gaza is, what is the history
[00:10:29] there, what happened to these people uh
[00:10:32] in in 1948.
[00:10:35] >> Obviously [clears throat]
[00:10:37] within the limits of an interview, it's
[00:10:40] very hard to go through that history
[00:10:42] with any kind of uh
[00:10:44] >> well you have a book for it. So, I am
[00:10:46] going to be a be a shameless promoter of
[00:10:48] this because this is this will we're
[00:10:49] going to give you the spark notes here,
[00:10:50] but Gaza, an inquest into its martyrdom
[00:10:54] is the title of the book that will be
[00:10:55] relevant for this. Uh, but here we're
[00:10:57] going to give you some spark notes.
[00:10:58] >> Mhm.
[00:11:00] Basically, if I were to try to summarize
[00:11:03] it for the purposes of this
[00:11:05] conversation,
[00:11:07] I believe the place to begin is 1948.
[00:11:11] The state of Israel is created. In the
[00:11:14] course of its creation, about 90% of the
[00:11:18] indigenous Palestinian population of
[00:11:20] Israel was expelled.
[00:11:23] About 750,000 people. Of those 750,000,
[00:11:27] about 300,000
[00:11:29] were expelled to Gaza. And that's when
[00:11:32] Gaza kind of became Gaza. It was um
[00:11:37] right now of the population of Gaza
[00:11:41] about 80%
[00:11:43] are refugees from the 1948 war or
[00:11:48] descendants of those refugees. Under
[00:11:50] international law, a descendant of a
[00:11:53] refugee is still counted as a refugee.
[00:11:57] So it's 80%
[00:12:00] a uh refugee population
[00:12:03] and it's also about 50% a child
[00:12:07] population.
[00:12:10] Now
[00:12:12] um from the moment Gaza came under um
[00:12:16] Egyptian administration after the 1948
[00:12:19] war Gaza comes under Egyptian
[00:12:22] administration.
[00:12:24] It's a very interesting fact when you
[00:12:26] start going through the history.
[00:12:28] There are all these outside observers
[00:12:30] who go into Gaza either to work there
[00:12:33] like under the opaces of the UN or just
[00:12:36] to see the situation. And one of the
[00:12:39] things that struck me was each time
[00:12:41] somebody goes to Gaza, they they
[00:12:45] describe Gaza as a huge concentration
[00:12:48] camp. Now, this is still under Egyptian
[00:12:51] rule.
[00:12:53] So, Elm Burns, the main UN official in
[00:12:56] Gaza. He writes a book between Arab and
[00:12:59] Jew. How does he describe Gaza? He
[00:13:01] described it as a huge concentration
[00:13:03] camp. In 1967, during the June 1967 war,
[00:13:09] Gaza comes under Israeli control.
[00:13:13] In July 1967,
[00:13:16] the father of Al Gore, the presidential
[00:13:18] candidate, his father was also a
[00:13:20] senator. So Al Gore or Senator Gore
[00:13:24] meaning the father he goes to Gaza.
[00:13:27] He comes back and he testifies before
[00:13:29] the US Congress. How does he describe
[00:13:32] Gaza? He says Gaza is quote a huge
[00:13:35] concentration camp on the sand if you
[00:13:38] will.
[00:13:40] You now fast forward to 2002.
[00:13:44] One of Israel's leading sociologists,
[00:13:46] his name was Baroo Kimberling. He writes
[00:13:49] a little book. Little book is called
[00:13:51] Politicite.
[00:13:53] How does he describe Gaza? He describes
[00:13:56] Gaza as quote the biggest concentration
[00:13:58] camp ever.
[00:14:01] 2004,
[00:14:02] the head of Israel's National Security
[00:14:05] Council. His name is Guora Island. He's
[00:14:09] still around. He's active now behind the
[00:14:12] scenes in the Netanyahu government. How
[00:14:15] does he describe Gaza? He describes Gaza
[00:14:19] as a huge concentration camp. Now bear
[00:14:22] in mind, bear in mind this is before
[00:14:26] Israel imposed the blockade of Gaza. It
[00:14:29] was already a horror show. It's been a
[00:14:32] horror show since 1948.
[00:14:35] In n in 2006, Israel imposes a blockade
[00:14:39] on Gaza.
[00:14:40] It decides what goes in. It decides what
[00:14:43] goes out. It decides who goes in. It
[00:14:47] disguise decides who goes out. They put
[00:14:51] Gaza on what they call
[00:14:54] a humanitarian [clears throat] minimum
[00:14:56] diet. You know what that meant? It meant
[00:15:00] they calculated, literally,
[00:15:03] we're not talking about hyperbole now,
[00:15:05] poetry. They calculated the caloric diet
[00:15:10] of everyone living in Gaza and they
[00:15:13] admitted just enough food to avoid
[00:15:18] scenes of starvation.
[00:15:20] That was 2006. We're not talking about
[00:15:23] after October 7.
[00:15:26] They prohibited
[00:15:28] baby chicks from going into Gaza.
[00:15:31] They prohibited chocolate from going
[00:15:34] into Gaza. They prohibited potato chips
[00:15:38] from going into Gaza. They prohibited
[00:15:42] condiments from going into Gaza. No
[00:15:44] cinnamon allowed in Gaza. Why? They
[00:15:48] wanted to create such intolerable
[00:15:52] conditions that the population of Gaza
[00:15:55] would overthrow the government that they
[00:15:57] elected.
[00:15:59] So that was Gaza.
[00:16:02] Now you come to 2006, October 6. Okay,
[00:16:08] you come to 2006.
[00:16:11] The Economist magazine, which you know
[00:16:13] is not a flaming liberal magazine, uh it
[00:16:17] describes Gaza as quote a human rubbish
[00:16:21] heap.
[00:16:24] The leading the leading UN official on
[00:16:27] Gaza describes it as quote a toxic dump.
[00:16:34] 60% of the young people in Gaza, the
[00:16:37] people who burst the gates of Gaza in
[00:16:39] October 7th, 60% of them are unemployed.
[00:16:45] All they have to All they have to look
[00:16:48] forward to when they get up each morning
[00:16:50] is to pace the perimeter of this tiny
[00:16:54] parcel of land.
[00:16:56] 26 miles long, the length of a marathon,
[00:17:01] 5 miles wide. That was Gaza.
[00:17:05] It was
[00:17:07] exactly what the UN officials said,
[00:17:10] exactly what Al Gore's father said,
[00:17:13] exactly what the head of the n Israeli
[00:17:16] National Security Council said. They
[00:17:19] were born into
[00:17:22] they were born into they languished in
[00:17:26] and they were destined to die in a
[00:17:30] concentration camp. It was like an
[00:17:32] elephant burial ground really. And
[00:17:37] when I
[00:17:40] struggled after October 7th, I've said
[00:17:42] this many times, uh, but it's a fact.
[00:17:46] It's not a drama point. You know, what
[00:17:50] happened October 7th was awful. There's
[00:17:52] no doubt in my mind about that. The
[00:17:55] magnitude was significant. 1,200 people
[00:17:58] killed about estimates, it's not an
[00:18:01] estimates, close to 800 of them
[00:18:04] civilians, 400 uh combatants, Israeli
[00:18:08] IDF members of the Israeli Defense
[00:18:10] Forces. It's a significant number. Can't
[00:18:14] get around that. I know there all sorts
[00:18:16] of stories about Israel having killed a
[00:18:18] large number. I've investigated as best
[00:18:20] I can
[00:18:22] and I'll admit, you know, there's still
[00:18:24] room
[00:18:26] on the margins for error, but I think
[00:18:28] was overwhelmingly was committed by Hus.
[00:18:32] And so, how do you how do you reckon
[00:18:36] something like that?
[00:18:38] [snorts and clears throat] But in
[00:18:39] politics, there are many levels. There's
[00:18:42] the facts,
[00:18:44] there's your political judgment, there's
[00:18:47] your legal judgment, there's your moral
[00:18:49] judgment. And they don't come directly
[00:18:52] from the facts. They do not.
[00:18:54] They go through many filters or saves
[00:18:58] before you get a moral judgment.
[00:19:02] And when I started to try to think it
[00:19:05] through
[00:19:07] uh I latch I I came upon in my mind the
[00:19:11] Nat Turner rebellion.
[00:19:14] So for those of your listeners who are
[00:19:16] unaware it was the largest slave revote
[00:19:18] in American history
[00:19:21] and um
[00:19:24] Nat Turner he gave the order all the
[00:19:27] historians agree on this. There isn't a
[00:19:29] huge literature in that Turner but there
[00:19:30] is a literature they all agree in one
[00:19:33] point he gave the order which he never
[00:19:35] denied uh he did the famous confession
[00:19:38] we don't know how much of the confession
[00:19:39] is actually him and how much is the
[00:19:41] person who was writing it but this part
[00:19:44] seemed real the order was kill all white
[00:19:47] people
[00:19:48] kill all white people and that's what
[00:19:51] they proceeded to do they went on what
[00:19:54] you might call a 70 no no uh 48 48 hour
[00:19:58] rampage, less than 48 hours actually,
[00:20:02] and
[00:20:05] hacked men,
[00:20:09] women,
[00:20:11] babies.
[00:20:13] It was brutal. It was brutal.
[00:20:16] Um, but then something struck me. One
[00:20:19] historian, his name is Steven Oaks,
[00:20:22] and he's trying to understand Nat
[00:20:24] Turner's motivation. Why did he do it?
[00:20:28] And he said, "Nat Turner
[00:20:32] was a very smart guy. There was no
[00:20:35] question about that. The person who who
[00:20:37] took down his confession,
[00:20:40] he said he was white. He said,
[00:20:44] "White or black?"
[00:20:46] Everybody agreed. Nat Turner was a very
[00:20:49] smart guy.
[00:20:52] And then he said the historian now he
[00:20:55] said there was this huge gulf for Nat
[00:20:59] Turner very smart guy
[00:21:03] between what he aspired to be in life
[00:21:07] and what he was destined to be
[00:21:11] because he was a slave. That huge gulf.
[00:21:16] He knew he was smart
[00:21:18] and yet he also knew as the historian
[00:21:22] Steven Oaks put it that this
[00:21:26] is only earthly existence.
[00:21:30] He was born into
[00:21:32] languish in and would die a slave.
[00:21:36] And that was the people the young people
[00:21:38] in Gaza.
[00:21:40] They knew. You see, now Gaza is in the
[00:21:43] news, but by uh October 6, 2023,
[00:21:49] Gaza had vanished from the news.
[00:21:53] I have made I have made the point
[00:21:55] because I do believe it's relevant. I
[00:21:58] had spent about 15 years just
[00:22:01] chronicling
[00:22:03] the details of what's happening in Gaza.
[00:22:07] I began roughly in the early 2000s
[00:22:12] and by 2020
[00:22:17] I gave up. That's a fact. And I'm it was
[00:22:20] not a fact I was proud of because I was
[00:22:23] writing books. They were getting more
[00:22:26] and more detailed.
[00:22:28] I mean, so micro detail
[00:22:32] and nobody was reading them. The last
[00:22:35] book I wrote was called I Accuse.
[00:22:39] My publisher not happily informed me it
[00:22:43] sold 370 copies. Of those 370,
[00:22:49] I purchased half of them. [laughter] No,
[00:22:52] it's a fact. Because it was about a case
[00:22:55] related to Gaza in the International
[00:22:57] Criminal Court and I was hoping to
[00:22:59] influence the court through my research.
[00:23:02] So, I was going to present it uh to the
[00:23:04] I the ICC.
[00:23:07] Um but by 2020,
[00:23:09] I said, "Norm, you know, you have only
[00:23:13] one life to live,
[00:23:16] and am I just going to stubbornly
[00:23:19] persist in the face of the fact that
[00:23:24] nobody cares?"
[00:23:26] And that was the situation in Gaza.
[00:23:30] Gaza had vanished
[00:23:33] from the political scene. By October
[00:23:36] 6th, 2023,
[00:23:39] all the talk was about whether the Saudi
[00:23:41] Saudi Arabia would join the Abraham
[00:23:44] Accords.
[00:23:45] Nobody was talking about Gaza anymore.
[00:23:48] And so the people of Gaza
[00:23:52] basically did what Nat Turner did.
[00:23:56] Now, here's the thing. Imagine
[00:24:02] an account of Nat Turner
[00:24:05] that doesn't mention he was a slave.
[00:24:09] Just this crazy religious fanatic. He
[00:24:12] was a religious fanatic. No question
[00:24:14] about that. Now, now Turner was a
[00:24:16] religious fanatic.
[00:24:18] He used the language of the Bible to try
[00:24:22] to make sense of his condition.
[00:24:25] That's what a religious fanatic meant.
[00:24:27] You know, John Brown, who led the
[00:24:28] insurrection before the Civil War, he
[00:24:32] also was a religious fanatic. He deeply,
[00:24:36] fanatically believed slavery was an
[00:24:40] abomination
[00:24:43] to the point that, you know, I don't
[00:24:46] want to get off on a digression, but
[00:24:48] when Frederick Douglas, the great
[00:24:50] abolitionist, when he went to meet John
[00:24:53] Brown,
[00:24:56] uh
[00:24:59] Douglas comments in one of his uh he had
[00:25:01] three autobiographies. when one of them
[00:25:03] he comments he just wouldn't stop
[00:25:06] talking about slavery. [laughter]
[00:25:07] He said he was boring.
[00:25:10] He was a fanatic. He was uh Johnny
[00:25:12] Oneote John Brown only about slavery and
[00:25:17] and um Nat Turner too. He was a
[00:25:21] religious fanatic.
[00:25:23] But imagine if you tried to make sense
[00:25:28] of the
[00:25:30] uh Nat Turner rebellion
[00:25:33] by focusing only on his religious
[00:25:37] fanaticism
[00:25:40] like the religiously fanatical Hamas.
[00:25:45] only focus on that and not mention the
[00:25:49] guy is a slave
[00:25:51] >> or mention if it were the circumstance
[00:25:53] for Nat Turner and it isn't or mentioned
[00:25:56] the fact that Nat Turner actually the
[00:25:59] rebellion was funded by money that one
[00:26:02] of the slave owners gave him that would
[00:26:04] be something that would be important if
[00:26:05] there was the BB Netanyahu circumstance
[00:26:07] there or that you know the slave owners
[00:26:09] received multiple warnings and for some
[00:26:11] reason just decided to ignore the fact
[00:26:13] that this rebellion was brewing I mean,
[00:26:15] there's a lot of things I've been I've
[00:26:16] been to Israel and um it is Charlie Kirk
[00:26:20] said it best immediately after because
[00:26:22] he had been many many times truly
[00:26:24] unbelievable. It's it's actually quite
[00:26:26] scary because every 15 ft there's an
[00:26:28] armed person. They take their security
[00:26:30] very seriously. They were I mean now
[00:26:32] people are speaking out and I think a
[00:26:33] lot more is going to come out um because
[00:26:36] they have been censoring uh BB has been
[00:26:39] lying, censoring, editing transcripts.
[00:26:41] I've been following the case against him
[00:26:43] pretty closely because there are Israeli
[00:26:45] publications that have been documenting
[00:26:47] everything. Obviously, he's not
[00:26:48] wellliked um uh by the people in Israel.
[00:26:52] they are they they were taken to the
[00:26:54] streets to protest him. But it's it is
[00:26:57] almost unbelievable
[00:26:59] um that that circumstance plus when you
[00:27:01] add to the fact they intercepted a
[00:27:03] document right way earlier that said 200
[00:27:07] hostages were going to be taken by
[00:27:09] Hamas. It's almost unbelievable they
[00:27:11] ignored everything plus Egypt warning
[00:27:13] them that something was happening on the
[00:27:14] border.
[00:27:16] I I have never bought that there was not
[00:27:18] um not that it took place. the course
[00:27:20] took place and it was terrible, but that
[00:27:21] there it wasn't intentionally allowed.
[00:27:24] Um, and I I truly believe that in my
[00:27:27] soul after I saw the footage prior to
[00:27:29] October 7th of BBNet and Yahoo, I'm not
[00:27:32] sure if you've seen this, but he is um
[00:27:34] he thinks he's off record. He says, you
[00:27:36] know, put the cameras down, like off
[00:27:37] record, and he starts detailing a plan
[00:27:39] where he's like, we got to hit Gaza so
[00:27:40] hard that they can't go back. And and so
[00:27:43] they sort of needed a pretext of sorts.
[00:27:46] And um do I think BB Netanyahu is evil
[00:27:49] enough to sacrifice his own people? Yes.
[00:27:51] A million times over. What's been
[00:27:53] happening in Gaza is a tremendous evil.
[00:27:56] And I don't think we will truly know the
[00:27:59] full picture of how evil it was until BB
[00:28:01] Netanyahu is removed from power and
[00:28:02] we're able to see the transcripts that
[00:28:04] he's blocking of of the conversations he
[00:28:06] had that day with his cabinet.
[00:28:08] Look, there are
[00:28:11] obviously there are areas of
[00:28:13] interpretation here
[00:28:15] >> and I don't want to pretend as if I have
[00:28:18] a monopoly in the truth.
[00:28:20] If you look back at 911,
[00:28:23] okay, our own September 11th, if you
[00:28:26] look back,
[00:28:27] uh, and there were many people who wrote
[00:28:29] at the time,
[00:28:31] there were a lot of people in the
[00:28:33] national [clears throat] national
[00:28:34] security establishment
[00:28:36] who had reports
[00:28:40] that there was going to be an attack.
[00:28:43] They came in, the reports came in. No
[00:28:45] question about that. You have to
[00:28:47] remember when you are a state the size
[00:28:50] of the United States and the power of
[00:28:53] the United States, you're going to be
[00:28:56] getting each day 10,000 intelligence
[00:29:00] reports about
[00:29:02] possible terrorist attack here, possible
[00:29:05] terrorist attack there. The United
[00:29:06] States has huge number of bases around
[00:29:09] the world.
[00:29:10] >> So you're always getting reports.
[00:29:13] But a intelligence establishment has to
[00:29:17] rank threats.
[00:29:20] >> And they ranked the Osama bin Laden
[00:29:24] threat low or lower than it should have
[00:29:28] been ranked. In the case of Israel, here
[00:29:32] we're free to disagree.
[00:29:34] Israel is it's a Jewish supremacist
[00:29:38] state. That's not my opinion. Okay.
[00:29:44] So, the um
[00:29:46] head of Israel's
[00:29:48] main human rights organization
[00:29:51] uh it's called Betelum BT Sl. And the
[00:29:55] head of Israel's human rights betum,
[00:29:58] this is a few years ago. It's a guy
[00:30:00] named Hagai Elad.
[00:30:03] Very decent guy. I've never met him. I'm
[00:30:06] not sure if he ever wanted to meet me.
[00:30:10] uh but decent guy. He was a Harvard
[00:30:13] trained PhD in physics. Serious fellow.
[00:30:17] Okay. And he put out a little report or
[00:30:20] he was the executive director when Bet
[00:30:22] Selum put out a report. Uh it was
[00:30:25] probably 10 15 years ago now. 10 I my
[00:30:28] memory is bad for time now. And he said
[00:30:32] here are the basic facts. There's one
[00:30:34] state from the Mediterranean to the
[00:30:37] Jordan. there's no Israel in occupied
[00:30:39] territories. There's just one state.
[00:30:42] >> And he said that state its foundation is
[00:30:46] Jewish supremacy. There are different
[00:30:49] levels of Jewish supremacy. It's
[00:30:51] different for the situation of Arabs,
[00:30:55] Palestinians living in Israel,
[00:30:57] Palestinians living in the West Bank,
[00:30:59] Palestinians living in Gaza,
[00:31:01] >> and Palestinian refugees. It's different
[00:31:03] levels, but the foundation is it's a
[00:31:07] Jewish supremacist statement.
[00:31:10] Now, why do I mention it? Because for
[00:31:14] the people of Israel,
[00:31:18] gazins are vermin.
[00:31:21] They're garbage. They're human refu.
[00:31:26] And so when you're getting intelligence
[00:31:30] reports from Gaza
[00:31:33] that they're going to launch an
[00:31:35] operation,
[00:31:36] uh, Israeli intelligence establishment
[00:31:39] this thing, what are you talking about?
[00:31:42] >> They're going to outsmart us.
[00:31:45] They are going to trick us with our
[00:31:49] surveillance,
[00:31:51] with our technology, with our IDF. this
[00:31:56] vermin
[00:31:58] is going to be able to pull this off.
[00:32:00] So, I think they did the same thing as
[00:32:04] our Bush administration did with Osama
[00:32:06] bin Laden. They um
[00:32:10] put it on a low priority. Uh they were
[00:32:14] shocked that Hamas was able after
[00:32:18] October 7, they were shocked that Hamas
[00:32:21] was able to pull it off. Dave Smith uh
[00:32:24] who's a good friend of mine believes
[00:32:26] Yeah. has your perspective. He does have
[00:32:28] your perspective.
[00:32:29] >> Yeah. One one last point on this because
[00:32:32] and I want to hear you out. Um you said
[00:32:35] they Israelis hate Netanyahu.
[00:32:39] I don't think that's true at all.
[00:32:41] Netanyahu is the longest sitting prime
[00:32:44] minister in Israeli history.
[00:32:47] If you follow it as I do and you're not
[00:32:49] obliged to, that's not your uh niche.
[00:32:54] Every few years they report Netanyahu is
[00:32:58] going. Netanyahu is going. Net is out.
[00:33:01] Netanyahu is finished. No, he's not. And
[00:33:04] do you know why?
[00:33:06] Because he's an obnoxious,
[00:33:10] narcissistic
[00:33:12] Jewish supremacist.
[00:33:14] And that's Israeli society.
[00:33:17] Obnoxious, narcissistic
[00:33:19] Jewish supremacist. When they see him,
[00:33:24] they see themselves.
[00:33:26] So there may be quarrels on this policy
[00:33:29] issue and that policy issue, but at the
[00:33:32] end of the day, they keep voting for
[00:33:35] him. and they vote for him because
[00:33:39] Netanyahu is not just the face of he's
[00:33:43] the reality of Israeli society.
[00:33:47] >> Yeah.
[00:33:47] >> When they try so hard, they try so hard.
[00:33:51] The people who are critical of Israel,
[00:33:54] people like Bernie Sanders, who's been
[00:33:56] not bad in recent years, he has his
[00:33:59] limits, but he's been okay. He always
[00:34:02] tries to
[00:34:04] laser beam Netanyahu.
[00:34:08] That's not true.
[00:34:10] The problem is not Netanyahu.
[00:34:14] The problem is the whole of Israeli
[00:34:17] society.
[00:34:18] If you look at the polls,
[00:34:21] half of Israeli Jews believe Israel
[00:34:24] should commit a genocide in Gaza.
[00:34:26] >> Wow.
[00:34:27] >> That's what the polls show. About 70 to
[00:34:30] 75%
[00:34:33] in poll say there are no innocents in
[00:34:36] Gaza.
[00:34:38] >> No innocents.
[00:34:39] >> There's nothing but children.
[00:34:40] >> Yeah. No innocents in Gaza. Half of the
[00:34:43] population being Jewish.
[00:34:46] >> The former Israeli or the current
[00:34:49] Israeli opposition leader. He said that
[00:34:54] the IDF, the Israeli Defense Forces,
[00:34:57] they kill children as a hobby.
[00:35:00] >> As a hobby.
[00:35:02] >> Yeah, I've seen some videos of like how
[00:35:05] proud they are when they kill a child.
[00:35:06] And it's it's really dark, but also I
[00:35:09] will say you can see psychological
[00:35:12] conditioning as in you their viewpoints
[00:35:14] on the Palestinians you can tell is
[00:35:16] being nurtured from the time of their a
[00:35:18] child. And I ran into somebody who left
[00:35:20] Israel,
[00:35:21] >> moved to Tennessee recently, and I ran
[00:35:23] into [clears throat] him
[00:35:24] >> um at a farmers market and he said, "I
[00:35:26] absolutely love you and I want you to
[00:35:27] know
[00:35:28] >> that we learn this stuff from the time
[00:35:30] we are children." Totally agree with
[00:35:32] that.
[00:35:32] >> He said, and he so he left and he said,
[00:35:33] "From the time we are children, we learn
[00:35:35] to hate." So he kind of broke a
[00:35:37] psychological barrier to get there
[00:35:38] obviously as an Israeli, but you are
[00:35:40] correct. I mean, and and that's why
[00:35:42] psychology really is the name of the
[00:35:43] game when you're talking about religious
[00:35:44] fanaticism or any other fanaticism. I
[00:35:47] want to say also there is an element of
[00:35:49] psychology and that is why in in my
[00:35:53] capacity now I be that's actually got a
[00:35:56] lot of trouble talking about the history
[00:35:57] of Sigman Freud but if you want to
[00:35:59] really speak about what is happening
[00:36:01] with with psychology propaganda PR he's
[00:36:04] the father of all of that and going back
[00:36:06] and tracing those roots it's very scary
[00:36:09] I mean these were really deeply dark
[00:36:12] people uh who were trying to cover up
[00:36:14] their own crimes and that is the reality
[00:36:17] without without getting going off on a
[00:36:18] tangent here, but you are correct and I
[00:36:21] think I would like to hear your
[00:36:23] perspective on how the tentacles of that
[00:36:27] Jewish supremacy have manifested and and
[00:36:30] you are actually and I'm sure you
[00:36:32] wouldn't for yourself as a victim, but
[00:36:33] I'm saying um what happened to you in
[00:36:35] your life, the circumstances around what
[00:36:36] happened in your academic career is
[00:36:39] actually reflected in the Jewish
[00:36:41] supremist. These are the perspectives
[00:36:43] that you have to have if you're going to
[00:36:45] be welcomed into these spaces that we
[00:36:47] control. How did that happen?
[00:36:49] >> Well,
[00:36:51] I would want to make the following
[00:36:53] points.
[00:36:54] Number one,
[00:36:57] the uh Jewish showing
[00:37:00] since October 7th.
[00:37:04] It's actually I'm talking about broadly
[00:37:06] American Jewish showing. It's actually
[00:37:08] not been bad. I'm actually very
[00:37:11] surprised.
[00:37:12] So, for example, uh somebody sent me
[00:37:16] this uh let's see,
[00:37:19] the most recent poll from the Washington
[00:37:22] Post. It found that 61% of American Jews
[00:37:28] say Israel has committed war crimes in
[00:37:30] Gaza.
[00:37:32] 40%
[00:37:34] say Israel has committed genocide there.
[00:37:38] uh and about half about half
[00:37:43] uh are opposing what Israel is doing in
[00:37:46] Gaza. It's a little it's about 10% less
[00:37:49] than the American people in general, but
[00:37:52] it's not a bad showing and we should
[00:37:54] recognize that.
[00:37:55] >> And I say it on my show [clears throat]
[00:37:56] all the time. I say when we are it it's
[00:37:58] important to recognize that. Not only
[00:38:00] that, because I I grew up in Stanford,
[00:38:02] Connecticut, so I grew up in a very
[00:38:03] Jewish area. Uh, and I always remark,
[00:38:06] these are not the Jewish people that you
[00:38:08] went to school with, right? We're
[00:38:09] talking about these hubs of power, DC,
[00:38:12] Hollywood. And so it sounds like when
[00:38:14] you're reading the news, every Jewish
[00:38:15] person must hold this perspective, and
[00:38:17] that is not reality.
[00:38:18] >> I'm going to say, Candice,
[00:38:20] I'm grateful that you say that.
[00:38:23] >> I believe that's factually correct.
[00:38:25] >> Yeah. If you remember the first
[00:38:29] demonstrations against the genocide in
[00:38:33] Gaza,
[00:38:34] [snorts] the biggest ones were led by
[00:38:36] Jews at Grand Central Station
[00:38:39] >> at the Statue of Liberty. It was deeply
[00:38:41] moving and they were very active. Jewish
[00:38:44] students were very active in the
[00:38:46] encampments
[00:38:48] >> around the country.
[00:38:49] >> They were but
[00:38:50] >> and they didn't get the same showcasing
[00:38:51] in the media. They tried to pretty much
[00:38:53] squash it, but it was there. And that's
[00:38:54] important to state
[00:38:56] >> within that context.
[00:38:59] Whereas I say the results of the polls
[00:39:02] aren't bad in my opinion. Within that
[00:39:04] context, you use the word hubs.
[00:39:08] It is a fact and one has to in my
[00:39:12] opinion
[00:39:14] face it because it's having real
[00:39:15] consequences.
[00:39:17] There's a Jewish supremacist billionaire
[00:39:19] class which is exerting a huge amount of
[00:39:25] power and muscle
[00:39:30] up front
[00:39:31] >> and behind the scenes. So I would just
[00:39:36] go through
[00:39:38] a few examples.
[00:39:40] Um
[00:39:41] >> can I throw one at you? Barry Weiss
[00:39:43] becoming the president of CBS News where
[00:39:45] I am telling you she I mean if she
[00:39:47] actually sat an IQ test she would be
[00:39:50] below average
[00:39:51] >> intelligence. But I would call that and
[00:39:52] I'll get to that.
[00:39:53] >> Yeah.
[00:39:54] >> I would call that Jewish supremacist
[00:39:56] affirmative action.
[00:39:57] >> Correct. Beyond affirmative action.
[00:39:59] Yeah.
[00:40:00] >> She has no competence.
[00:40:01] >> She can't even hold a conversation. You
[00:40:03] don't even want to listen to her. She
[00:40:04] she is so lacking in gray matter that
[00:40:09] she couldn't pass the test to be on the
[00:40:13] view.
[00:40:14] >> How I mean, how is she not embarrassed
[00:40:16] to show up for work every day knowing
[00:40:18] >> that probably the majority everybody
[00:40:20] knows the majority of people that are
[00:40:22] probably everyone is smarter than her.
[00:40:24] They've worked harder than her. They
[00:40:25] would be better in that position. And
[00:40:26] everyone's looking at you going
[00:40:28] >> this is an affirmative action hire. Uh
[00:40:30] and I call this the children of
[00:40:32] Bonibberith. and people that are reading
[00:40:33] the books that I'm reading uh we we'll
[00:40:35] learn a bit more about that. But she
[00:40:36] it's so obvious went to did a year at
[00:40:39] Tel Aviv University. She's in the club.
[00:40:41] So
[00:40:42] >> she was she was in the club from a quite
[00:40:44] young age. She was born she led she led
[00:40:46] the campaign at Columbia University when
[00:40:49] she was an undergraduate to try to rid
[00:40:52] the faculty of p professors critical of
[00:40:56] the state of Israel. She lost that
[00:40:58] battle, but now she's obviously
[00:41:00] >> I would die of embarrassment if I showed
[00:41:02] up every day and everyone knew that I
[00:41:04] did not belong there. But like, daddy
[00:41:06] made a phone call sort of a feeling.
[00:41:08] >> Yes. [laughter]
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[00:42:31] Candace. Jumping in here to tell you
[00:42:33] guys about pre-born because, you know, I
[00:42:34] love them. I've watched so many people
[00:42:36] who I'm close to be vilified for
[00:42:37] standing up for the truth. I of course
[00:42:39] have dealt with that myself. But I have
[00:42:41] also seen something else which is a lot
[00:42:43] of courage right now in this moment. I
[00:42:45] don't play defense anymore. I don't
[00:42:46] water down what I believe to be
[00:42:47] palatable because silence I have learned
[00:42:49] is not kindness. It's actually consent.
[00:42:52] And right now the greatest silence is
[00:42:53] surrounding the topic of the lives that
[00:42:55] are ended before they even take their
[00:42:57] first breath. If we're going to call
[00:42:58] ourselves defenders of life, then we
[00:43:00] need to act like it. That's why I'm
[00:43:01] asking you to join me to fight back with
[00:43:02] action, with truth, and with love. For
[00:43:05] just $28, that is what it costs to give
[00:43:07] a free ultrasound to a woman that's in
[00:43:08] crisis and considering an abortion. $28
[00:43:11] will help her see a life that's growing
[00:43:12] inside of her. It gives her the truth
[00:43:14] that our culture does not provide. So,
[00:43:16] don't sit this one out. Don't wait for
[00:43:17] permission. Be bold. Be clear. We should
[00:43:19] be unapologetically pro-life. Head to
[00:43:21] pre-born.org/candis
[00:43:23] right now. Give $28. You can also give
[00:43:24] 10 times that amount if you can. This is
[00:43:26] the line that I think that we must stand
[00:43:28] on. We have to stand for truth and
[00:43:29] what's right. We need to save lives from
[00:43:31] abortion and stand firm in the gospel.
[00:43:33] Again, that is pre-born.org/candis
[00:43:36] to provide an ultrasound for just $28.
[00:43:38] >> So, when uh very shortly into October
[00:43:43] 7th,
[00:43:44] I'm asked to do a debate
[00:43:48] and I said fine by Lex Friedman. He asks
[00:43:52] me to do a debate and that
[00:43:54] >> I he says who I said who do you want me
[00:43:56] to debate? He said this thing called
[00:44:00] destiny. I didn't know what that person
[00:44:01] was. This thing called destiny. I said
[00:44:03] >> got a date with destiny.
[00:44:05] >> Yeah. Exactly. [laughter]
[00:44:06] Yeah. You are my destiny. I know. You
[00:44:11] know I don't claim to a distinguished
[00:44:15] academic pedigree.
[00:44:18] But at this point in my life, I'm not
[00:44:21] debating a thing called destiny. So I
[00:44:24] said to Lex Friedman, "Thanks, but no
[00:44:27] thanks." And then he, by the way, I
[00:44:30] didn't know who Lex Friedman was either.
[00:44:31] I don't follow podcast or things like
[00:44:33] that. I'm a book person, oldfashioned.
[00:44:36] And um then he gets back to me about 3
[00:44:41] weeks later and he says, "How would you
[00:44:44] like to debate Benny Morris?" I said,
[00:44:46] "Sure. Benny Morris is Israel's senior
[00:44:48] historian. I know his work very well and
[00:44:51] it would be exciting for me actually
[00:44:53] from an intellectual level to actually
[00:44:55] face him because I'd written a lot on
[00:44:57] him. And then Lex Freriedman says and
[00:45:02] Destiny.
[00:45:05] I'm wondering why are you harping on
[00:45:07] Destiny?
[00:45:09] >> This random streamer so
[00:45:12] >> strange.
[00:45:13] >> Exactly. It was so strange.
[00:45:16] I I then thought to myself, if I
[00:45:19] refused,
[00:45:21] then it would look like I'm afraid to
[00:45:23] debate Benny Morris because he's his
[00:45:26] real ser senior historian and very
[00:45:28] smart. He knows his stuff for sure. And
[00:45:31] I didn't want that to be broadcast far
[00:45:34] and wide. Finerstein afraid to debate
[00:45:36] Benny Morris. So I said, "Okay, uh, if
[00:45:38] he wants to come along with Benny
[00:45:40] Morris, this thing called destiny." I
[00:45:43] said, "Okay, I'll do it." And uh I said
[00:45:46] I'll debate with my good friend, very
[00:45:49] smart guy, Muing Rabani, top of the
[00:45:51] line, and we sh we have the same
[00:45:54] political outlook.
[00:45:56] So why do I mention it?
[00:45:59] A few months later, I'm having a
[00:46:01] conversation with a friend of mine
[00:46:04] and he says to me, you know, Destiny was
[00:46:10] paid
[00:46:11] to be on with you. I said, no, nobody
[00:46:13] [clears throat] told me that. He said,
[00:46:14] "Yeah, he was and he described it
[00:46:17] because he was discreet. He described it
[00:46:19] as a Israel advocacy group had groomed
[00:46:24] him to debate me and had I'm using the
[00:46:28] words he said paid him handsomely
[00:46:32] to debate me." And it's an unimpeachable
[00:46:34] source. By the way, the person who told
[00:46:36] me this is not political at all. just by
[00:46:39] coincidence
[00:46:41] uh he could say with absolute certainty
[00:46:45] and I know it.
[00:46:46] >> Why do I mention it? Because at that
[00:46:49] time this was like this first month into
[00:46:54] uh October 7th.
[00:46:57] It was a kind of a revelation.
[00:47:01] But now we're two years later. We're two
[00:47:04] years later in the in the time that's
[00:47:07] elapsed.
[00:47:09] Not one, not two,
[00:47:13] three Ivy League presidents were
[00:47:17] toppled.
[00:47:18] There's never been I know the history of
[00:47:20] academic freedom in our country. I've
[00:47:22] written on it. There's never been
[00:47:24] anything like it. This massive assault,
[00:47:28] how was it conducted? [clears throat]
[00:47:30] It started with people like Bill Aman,
[00:47:33] the billionaire.
[00:47:34] >> He threatens Harvard.
[00:47:37] >> You don't crush the encampments. You
[00:47:39] don't get alumni money. That was it was
[00:47:42] very very straightforward. It was pure
[00:47:46] blackmail
[00:47:47] and
[00:47:48] >> which is by the way their favorite
[00:47:50] tactic. Financial blackmail comes first.
[00:47:52] >> It was financial blackmail. If you look
[00:47:55] at the Harvard report on anti-semitism,
[00:47:58] one alumni, one Jewish alumni gave
[00:48:01] Harvard $200 million.
[00:48:04] One alumni gave Harvard
[00:48:08] $300 million.
[00:48:10] >> Aman $50 million.
[00:48:13] And then there was a petition organized.
[00:48:16] My memory is but the number probably
[00:48:18] increased vastly. The original version
[00:48:21] of the petition 1,200
[00:48:24] Jewish alumni from Harvard threatened to
[00:48:27] withhold the contribu uh alumni
[00:48:30] contributions
[00:48:31] and so systematically
[00:48:34] these college presidents are being
[00:48:38] ousted. I can quote to you but I can't
[00:48:41] tell you the source but I could tell you
[00:48:44] no you have to judge people by their
[00:48:46] track record but I have a track record
[00:48:48] of being accurate or inaccurate.
[00:48:50] When President McIll
[00:48:53] was deposed from the University of
[00:48:55] Pennsylvania,
[00:48:58] a person approached her who knew her to
[00:49:02] express commisceration with her
[00:49:04] situation.
[00:49:06] And she replied with two words,
[00:49:10] "Money talks."
[00:49:12] >> I can speak to that. I mean, I've lived
[00:49:14] it. And that is the first thing that
[00:49:16] happens, which is financial blackmail.
[00:49:17] And a lot of people want to know, well,
[00:49:19] why is this person doing this or why are
[00:49:20] they not saying it? I'm like, at the end
[00:49:22] of the day, they let you know, you'll
[00:49:24] lose everything. And some people go,
[00:49:25] well, it's not risk. I' I'd rather just
[00:49:27] tow the line so that I can keep life as
[00:49:29] I know it. And so, yeah, the majority of
[00:49:32] people are facing that. They have
[00:49:33] families to feed and they don't know how
[00:49:36] to restart because in most
[00:49:37] circumstances, it's all they've ever
[00:49:39] known, right? You're talking about
[00:49:40] someone who's maybe been in the academia
[00:49:42] for a very long time and they're going,
[00:49:44] "Not only will we forcefully pick you
[00:49:45] out, kick you out, we'll also slap a tag
[00:49:48] on you and call our friends in the media
[00:49:50] like a Barry Weiss when she was at New
[00:49:51] York Times to smear you and liel you as
[00:49:54] an anti-semite." And so you're asking
[00:49:56] for a type of bravery that I would say
[00:49:59] most people don't have and they just go,
[00:50:01] "I'm going to shut up." That but the
[00:50:04] answer to that for people that are
[00:50:05] listening is take your kids out of the
[00:50:07] schools. You don't need these schools. I
[00:50:08] mean, what is the upside? You're paying
[00:50:09] an absolute fortune for your children to
[00:50:11] go to debt. The system is rigged anyway,
[00:50:13] right? They're you think they're going
[00:50:14] to have the same jobs they want their
[00:50:16] children to go on. What does it say
[00:50:18] about our society that Norm Finkelesteed
[00:50:21] uh can't achieve tenure, but an admitted
[00:50:25] child rapist like Jeffrey Epstein had a
[00:50:29] office at Harvard University. Like that
[00:50:31] that wasn't what caused the the
[00:50:33] billionaire backlash, which would have
[00:50:35] made sense. We're all pulling our money,
[00:50:37] unless you get this person who doesn't
[00:50:39] have any sort of an academic career, by
[00:50:41] the way, off of our campus. No. And this
[00:50:43] was after he admitted and served time in
[00:50:45] jail. Jeffrey Epstein still had an
[00:50:48] office on at Harvard University campus.
[00:50:50] And that's why I say to people, that's a
[00:50:51] MSAD operation. No matter which way you
[00:50:53] look at it, um Harvard University, in my
[00:50:56] view, is running a MSAD operation. But
[00:50:58] again, don't want to get lost on another
[00:50:59] tangent. You are absolutely correct that
[00:51:01] that is a a stunning example of of how
[00:51:04] uh the mechanics are when we're speaking
[00:51:06] about their system of financial
[00:51:08] blackmail.
[00:51:09] >> There there are many aspects to it and a
[00:51:12] lot of it has come out in recent months.
[00:51:15] The paying people of $7,000 for each
[00:51:18] post in support of Israel.
[00:51:19] >> Life-changing money for most
[00:51:20] influencers.
[00:51:22] >> Imagine that. You can tweet 10 times a
[00:51:23] day and have $70,000.
[00:51:26] >> And I know for a fact you're saying you
[00:51:27] don't you can't speak to your source. I
[00:51:29] know for a fact because I know someone
[00:51:31] who took the money [clears throat]
[00:51:33] >> and they wouldn't tell me what
[00:51:34] billionaire it was, but uh I can tell
[00:51:37] you around May of this year
[00:51:39] >> whenever I I termed it operation mocking
[00:51:41] pastor was happening where every pastor
[00:51:44] it seemed started jumped on stage one
[00:51:46] Sunday and said don't follow Candace
[00:51:48] Owens and Tucker Carlson. A very weird
[00:51:49] sermon to preach all on the same day. It
[00:51:51] was right after Ted um and uh Ted Cruz
[00:51:56] and Tucker Carlson had debated. there
[00:51:58] was a billionaire that went out and
[00:52:00] offered what they said to me was an
[00:52:02] obscene amount of money uh for people to
[00:52:06] begin influencing by creating
[00:52:08] anti-Candice and Tucker billion uh uh
[00:52:10] Tucker videos. So that's how it works. I
[00:52:12] mean that is just how it works. But I
[00:52:14] think before they were a little less
[00:52:16] arrogant and they wanted to be less
[00:52:18] obvious that that's how it worked. And
[00:52:20] now there's a panic happening. And so in
[00:52:23] their desperation, and this is what's
[00:52:25] happened over the last 2 years, they've
[00:52:26] just been sort of in your face. We're
[00:52:28] throwing money at the cause. We control
[00:52:30] everything and we don't care if you know
[00:52:32] about it.
[00:52:33] >> Yeah. I I totally agree with that that
[00:52:37] now it's become, as I said, it operates
[00:52:40] in two levels. Part of it, it is
[00:52:42] remarkably in your face. We uh Bill
[00:52:45] Aman, a hedge fund manager, decides
[00:52:49] on his own who is going to be president
[00:52:52] of Harvard University. You know, there's
[00:52:55] nothing like that in our history.
[00:52:59] Just the brazeness of it
[00:53:02] >> and recently, how about BB Netanyahu on
[00:53:05] camera with American influence. This is
[00:53:07] I I said in in commentary about this
[00:53:10] >> a couple of years ago. If you said that
[00:53:12] Jewish people held power in media, you'd
[00:53:14] be referred to as an anti-semite. Fast
[00:53:16] forward to today and you have BBNet and
[00:53:18] Yahoo sitting down saying that we I need
[00:53:20] this deal to go through on TikTok
[00:53:23] because that is a weapon that we need to
[00:53:25] be able to use in a room on camera with
[00:53:27] American influencers. So that is just
[00:53:29] and they're saying how do we combat
[00:53:31] Canon and Tucker Carlson? We don't have
[00:53:33] any power. I I I shoot the show in my
[00:53:35] basement, you know. I'm there's no I'm
[00:53:37] not feeding into some web and getting
[00:53:39] paid from foreign influencers or being
[00:53:41] funded by Qatar. I mean all smears and
[00:53:43] liels. And so what does what does that
[00:53:46] say when you have a a foreign country
[00:53:48] leader BB Netanyahu saying that on
[00:53:50] camera?
[00:53:52] >> Well, I ag I totally agree with that.
[00:53:54] The fact that he
[00:53:57] just blatantly says we have to control
[00:54:00] the media.
[00:54:02] I would say
[00:54:04] in response to what you said a few
[00:54:06] moments ago, you said it does take a lot
[00:54:09] of courage to resist these this I would
[00:54:13] say there are levels of courage that it
[00:54:16] requires. So we'll take the most recent
[00:54:19] case that came out of um was public of
[00:54:23] Van Jones.
[00:54:25] Van Jones is not a poor man.
[00:54:28] >> Certainly not. He got $100 million from
[00:54:32] Jeff Bezos. These are Jeff Bezos. These
[00:54:35] are insurance policies. He gave um Obama
[00:54:41] $100 million. He gave Van Jones $100
[00:54:45] million. Why? It's perfectly obvious.
[00:54:47] because he knows at some point there's
[00:54:50] going to be a major strike at Amazon
[00:54:53] >> because it's a huge operation with a
[00:54:55] large number of people who are paid sub
[00:54:58] uh substandard wages. So he has an
[00:55:01] insurance policy. Make sure if and when
[00:55:05] that moment comes, Obama will be on his
[00:55:08] team, Van Jones will be on his team.
[00:55:11] [clears throat] That's a straightforward
[00:55:13] transaction, business transaction,
[00:55:16] >> but it's money, you know, hund00 million
[00:55:18] dollars. So, why does he do this? Why
[00:55:22] does he come on TV with his yellow
[00:55:25] ribbon?
[00:55:27] I live in an old Jewish neighborhood in
[00:55:30] Ocean Parkway, Brooklyn. There's
[00:55:32] literally a synagogue in every block. In
[00:55:34] some blocks, there are two synagogues.
[00:55:37] You walk up and down Ocean Parkway, it's
[00:55:40] all Jewish. I don't see anyone wearing a
[00:55:42] yellow ribbon. I know. I'm really
[00:55:43] >> No, I know.
[00:55:44] >> I don't see anyone wearing a yellow
[00:55:45] ribbon.
[00:55:47] >> Why is Why is Van Jones
[00:55:50] advertising
[00:55:52] the flag? He's just advertising
[00:55:56] I'm a slave.
[00:55:57] >> Yeah,
[00:55:58] >> that's what he's saying.
[00:55:59] >> He used to brand slaves
[00:56:00] >> and he's just a slave.
[00:56:02] >> And um
[00:56:03] >> this is how I feel when I see uh people
[00:56:05] in Congress. I mean, think about a
[00:56:07] presidential debate wearing a a a
[00:56:10] flag pin from a flag, but it's not
[00:56:12] American. It's like you're you're just a
[00:56:14] a slave.
[00:56:15] >> And
[00:56:17] he's wearing the yellow ribbon here. If
[00:56:20] there were any what you call truth in
[00:56:22] advertising,
[00:56:23] he would wear a dollar sign here,
[00:56:26] >> a a dollar gold pin
[00:56:29] >> over here because it's just money. It's
[00:56:32] such a revolting site. And he goes on
[00:56:36] with Bill Maher and Tom Freriedman, two
[00:56:38] Jewish supremacists,
[00:56:40] and they're laughing about dead gods and
[00:56:43] babies, you know, very funny. They're
[00:56:46] laughing about And the thing is, Van
[00:56:49] Jones knows
[00:56:52] they're not just laughing with him,
[00:56:56] they're laughing at him.
[00:56:58] >> Yeah.
[00:56:59] >> He's our slave.
[00:57:00] >> Yeah. Yeah. And he has he doesn't have
[00:57:03] [clears throat]
[00:57:03] even that minimum
[00:57:06] that minimum selfrespect and dignity. He
[00:57:10] makes jokes about
[00:57:13] uh dead Palestinian babies. So
[00:57:16] >> gosh, I didn't I didn't hear I didn't
[00:57:18] hear whatever joke that he said. And so
[00:57:20] that
[00:57:21] >> makes my skin fall.
[00:57:22] >> He said that if you open up Tik Tok,
[00:57:27] all you see is dead Palestinian babies.
[00:57:30] dead Palestinian babies. Dead
[00:57:31] Palestinian Betty babies did dead
[00:57:35] Palestinian babies. [laughter]
[00:57:38] And he says, "Do you know why you only
[00:57:40] see that?" He says, "Because the
[00:57:43] Iranians and Qatar are behind it. They
[00:57:46] are they are
[00:57:49] manipulating the media." But there's
[00:57:51] another possible explanation. You know
[00:57:54] what the possible explanation is? Maybe
[00:57:57] there are a lot of dead Palestinian
[00:57:59] babies.
[00:58:01] In fact,
[00:58:03] just the very first month,
[00:58:07] just October
[00:58:09] 2023,
[00:58:12] do you know more Palestinian children
[00:58:15] were killed just that first month
[00:58:19] >> than all the other war zones in the
[00:58:22] world combined
[00:58:26] in 2019,
[00:58:28] 2020, or 2021 or yeah 2021 if you
[00:58:33] combine them if each year if you combine
[00:58:36] each year every other war zone
[00:58:40] this tiny parcel of land called Gaza
[00:58:44] more children were killed
[00:58:46] >> now it's about the minimum estimate the
[00:58:51] minimum estimate is 20,000 children
[00:58:54] killed
[00:58:55] >> now if you look at the
[00:58:58] the human rights supports. It'll
[00:59:02] probably come as a surprise to you. You
[00:59:05] look at the most recent one, it's put
[00:59:07] out by the UN, the Na'vi Pale
[00:59:09] Commission. Na'vi Pai was the former uh
[00:59:13] human rights chief in the UN and then
[00:59:15] she was on the tribunal, the president
[00:59:18] of the tribunal on Rwanda. She's from
[00:59:20] South Africa.
[00:59:22] They report
[00:59:24] Israel
[00:59:26] targets children.
[00:59:29] targets them in the head and in the
[00:59:33] chest.
[00:59:34] Israel
[00:59:36] targets
[00:59:38] toddlers, that's the word they use,
[00:59:41] targets toddlers in Gaza.
[00:59:46] They said in the report
[00:59:49] in order for children who are suffering
[00:59:51] from malnutrition, you I know you have
[00:59:53] four children, so you'll be much more uh
[00:59:56] knowledgeable than me. They need a
[00:59:58] special infant baby formula. I guess
[01:00:00] it's a high protein infant baby formula.
[01:00:04] Israel bans it.
[01:00:07] But for Van Jones
[01:00:11] with his frat boys, Tom Freriedman, it's
[01:00:15] all Qatari
[01:00:17] and
[01:00:19] uh Iranian propaganda. But then and
[01:00:22] what's interesting about that is they
[01:00:23] cannot produce a shred of proof
[01:00:26] >> that anybody is funded by guitar. It's
[01:00:27] just it's a literal talking point that
[01:00:30] has been fictionalized [clears throat]
[01:00:31] by BBNet and Yahoo's agents. You have to
[01:00:34] register under FAR every time you take a
[01:00:36] meeting. They cannot produce one shred
[01:00:37] of proof to that effect. And yet all of
[01:00:40] the proof is here that actually everyone
[01:00:42] is funded by Israel in America. And so
[01:00:44] you just go for for Van Jones. I mean, I
[01:00:48] I can't imagine going to bed every night
[01:00:51] and just realizing it doesn't matter how
[01:00:52] nice your house is, you're still you're
[01:00:53] still a slave. You're still a slave. And
[01:00:56] >> and to advertise it, the yellow ribbon.
[01:01:00] >> Yeah.
[01:01:00] >> Well, where's the yellow ribbon?
[01:01:02] >> Mhm.
[01:01:02] >> Does Ben Shapiro still wear it?
[01:01:04] >> Does he used to wear it?
[01:01:05] >> I think he used to
[01:01:06] >> I I'm not sure.
[01:01:07] >> But currently, this is two years later.
[01:01:10] M
[01:01:10] >> I don't know anyone who he but he still
[01:01:12] wears it just to to show you know I'm
[01:01:16] sure it's in his contract if you wear
[01:01:18] the yellow ribbon an extra thousand a
[01:01:20] bonus $1,000
[01:01:22] >> and and and that is it's really
[01:01:24] important for people to know that how
[01:01:26] the dynamics work because they do this
[01:01:28] through charity and I know that there
[01:01:29] are other people that are working on a
[01:01:31] report on this now because it's become
[01:01:32] so obvious of how they will even give
[01:01:35] people the permission these influencers
[01:01:36] to say well I I'm not taking any foreign
[01:01:38] money okay nobody body expected that you
[01:01:41] were receiving a check from BB
[01:01:43] Netanyahu. What they do is they'll flood
[01:01:45] the zone and they'll give money to like
[01:01:47] the International Fellowship of
[01:01:48] Christian and Jews or put, you know, put
[01:01:50] money into a church and then those
[01:01:53] individuals will then give money to
[01:01:54] influencers. like it's it's such an
[01:01:56] obvious game and it's I I will say on
[01:02:00] the quote unquote Christian side of
[01:02:02] things, we're seeing that people are
[01:02:03] awakening to these pastors that are
[01:02:06] going on these multiple trips to Israel
[01:02:08] and coming back and telling their
[01:02:10] congregants that no matter what, they
[01:02:12] have to support BB Netanyahu. I mean,
[01:02:14] it's nutty. But I'm happy because it
[01:02:16] does seem as though we are reaching this
[01:02:18] inflection point where the correct
[01:02:21] people who uh and the honest people
[01:02:23] rather have been telling the truth for a
[01:02:25] very long time are finally getting their
[01:02:26] day.
[01:02:28] >> I would say public opinion is shifting
[01:02:31] for sure.
[01:02:33] You know, um I I'll I'll return to that
[01:02:37] in a moment.
[01:02:39] As I said,
[01:02:42] there's a such a complete unwillingness
[01:02:47] to see the situation you're in, you're
[01:02:50] placed in when you are um
[01:02:56] uh you're just a slave for these folks.
[01:03:01] So, you take the case of Barry Weiss,
[01:03:04] okay?
[01:03:06] And there are people who work in her
[01:03:09] outfit who are not Jewish.
[01:03:12] You read, she wrote a little book. It
[01:03:14] was a stupid book. It was a I mean it
[01:03:17] was a comic. It wasn't a book. It's sort
[01:03:19] of the I teach and it was something you
[01:03:22] get from a a a paper from a a freshman a
[01:03:27] freshman paper. And how she end the
[01:03:29] book? Let me just quote this is how it's
[01:03:32] a book about anti-semitism and how to
[01:03:34] fight it like she knows about fighting
[01:03:36] anti-semitism. Here she writes
[01:03:41] this is the force of who we are. We are
[01:03:45] a people descended from slaves who
[01:03:49] brought the world ideas that changed the
[01:03:52] course of history.
[01:03:54] One God, human dignity, the sanctity of
[01:03:58] life, freedom itself.
[01:04:02] This is our inheritance.
[01:04:04] That is our legacy. We are the people
[01:04:08] commanded to bring light into this
[01:04:12] world. I mean, these are just, you know,
[01:04:14] that's a passage you would, if you
[01:04:15] replace the proper noun, it's something
[01:04:18] you'd read in mine.
[01:04:20] That's their mentality. These are Jewish
[01:04:22] supremacists.
[01:04:24] And what do they think of a Van Jones?
[01:04:27] What's going through their head when
[01:04:28] they see a Coleman Hughes? Where do they
[01:04:30] think they'll never be us?
[01:04:32] >> Complete contempt.
[01:04:33] >> Complete contempt. Our slaves.
[01:04:35] >> Mhm. 100%. Yeah.
[01:04:37] >> It's pitiful.
[01:04:38] >> Really?
[01:04:40] >> Um
[01:04:40] >> and then they could ruin those people in
[01:04:42] 4 seconds. Like it's like you are
[01:04:43] literally our property. And I and and I
[01:04:46] sensed that because I do want to add
[01:04:48] this one element like before October
[01:04:50] 7th, there were tons of people who were
[01:04:53] on the quoteunquote pro-Israel side like
[01:04:55] me uh meaning never cared to look at the
[01:04:58] issue. Sounds okay. B, you know, basic
[01:05:00] I'm not going to speak about this issue
[01:05:00] because I don't really know about it and
[01:05:01] it's not relevant to speak about. I I
[01:05:03] really entered in the scene of politics
[01:05:05] really intent on sort of waking up black
[01:05:07] America to other layers of slavery like
[01:05:10] you know what we learned in the
[01:05:11] classroom and constantly thinking that
[01:05:12] we have to marry ourselves to one party
[01:05:13] or and now I'm kind of through both and
[01:05:16] being like actually both sides are
[01:05:17] really bad. Um but yeah so it's very I
[01:05:21] do want people to be forgiving and know
[01:05:22] that some people genuinely just don't
[01:05:24] know. Uh but now we're not there. We're
[01:05:26] not at that point anymore. People don't
[01:05:28] know. They very much know and they are
[01:05:30] making a conscious decision that the
[01:05:32] cash means more to them than the truth.
[01:05:35] That they are willing to allow children
[01:05:37] to be murdered and killed every day
[01:05:39] plucked off in Gaza
[01:05:41] >> and to tell jokes about it and to and to
[01:05:43] spread lies about the condition that is
[01:05:45] happening. When you see if you do not
[01:05:47] have a spiritual reaction uh to seeing
[01:05:51] those children that are starving every
[01:05:53] day, they will always pluck the one
[01:05:55] example of this guy wasn't actually
[01:05:57] starving and so therefore nobody's
[01:05:58] starving. And it is so plainly obvious
[01:06:01] that that is untrue again before October
[01:06:04] 7th. That would have been untrue. Uh
[01:06:07] that you just wonder if these like I
[01:06:10] just don't know how they do it.
[01:06:11] genuinely don't know how they do it
[01:06:13] because I would rather lose everything
[01:06:15] as I've proven, take it all, than to
[01:06:18] speak something that is untrue because I
[01:06:20] know that my soul will pay a consequence
[01:06:22] for that.
[01:06:24] >> As I said,
[01:06:27] 40% of American Jews are convinced
[01:06:30] Israel is committing genocide.
[01:06:32] >> Yeah.
[01:06:33] >> But
[01:06:34] Coleman Hughes doesn't see it.
[01:06:37] >> Van Jones doesn't see it.
[01:06:41] Uh there is a British proverb
[01:06:45] uh there are none so blind as those who
[01:06:49] will not see.
[01:06:51] And if you know the Bob Dylan song from
[01:06:54] my generation blow in the wind.
[01:06:57] How many times can a man turn his head
[01:07:02] and pretend that he doesn't just doesn't
[01:07:04] see? Well, if the if the remuneration is
[01:07:10] enough many times. Well, I think that's
[01:07:13] also I know that you're you're uh you
[01:07:16] don't engage much on social media and
[01:07:18] you also don't even have a cell phone,
[01:07:19] but I released this week. I sort of
[01:07:22] waited for everybody to lie uh which
[01:07:24] they did. Of course, they love lying
[01:07:25] about Charlie Kirk and what he was going
[01:07:27] through in the end and I released the
[01:07:29] text message chain 48 hours before he
[01:07:31] died where he said, "They've left me no
[01:07:33] choice but to abandon the pro-Israel
[01:07:35] cause." And I
[01:07:38] really think that the best person that
[01:07:40] put it very plainly like if you lost
[01:07:42] Charlie Kirk who was actually so
[01:07:45] committed to Israel uh for him uh as an
[01:07:49] as he started evangelical uh evangelical
[01:07:52] Christian and then he couldn't unsee and
[01:07:55] he said explicitly in his message
[01:07:58] because of Jewish behavior and we know
[01:08:00] what he meant. He didn't mean all Jews
[01:08:02] in America. It's like that power that we
[01:08:04] are talking about that happens and the
[01:08:06] way they were treating him as if he was
[01:08:08] suddenly he woke up and realized like I
[01:08:10] did. Oh, I thought that you guys were
[01:08:12] supporting me because you were my
[01:08:13] friends. I thought you supported me
[01:08:14] because I will pursue the facts. I
[01:08:15] thought you supported me because you
[01:08:16] want me to have a platform because I
[01:08:17] will speak truth to power. And then when
[01:08:19] you turned around and realized, well,
[01:08:21] wow, I was just a slave to you. You view
[01:08:23] me as something other. And for Charlie,
[01:08:28] I I think he was realizing at the end,
[01:08:30] or maybe he never understood it, that if
[01:08:33] you take the king's shilling, you fight
[01:08:35] the king's war.
[01:08:37] >> Well, there's a proverb I I'm not
[01:08:40] familiar with that proverb, but there's
[01:08:42] he who pays the piper calls the tune.
[01:08:44] [clears throat]
[01:08:45] >> And what do you do when you have a not
[01:08:47] for-p profofit 501c3 that has taken
[01:08:50] millions of dollars? And Bob Showman was
[01:08:52] one person who took $2 million away from
[01:08:54] him instantly if he didn't uh you know
[01:08:56] start pedaling the correct talking
[01:08:58] points about Israel and he was he was
[01:09:00] just done in the end and then you know
[01:09:03] he he died. So it was no longer a
[01:09:06] problem but they then rushed to
[01:09:08] misrepresent and to pretend that that
[01:09:09] period didn't happen. He literally told
[01:09:11] BB Netany and Yahoo on the phone no
[01:09:14] because they were panicked about losing
[01:09:15] Charlie. He calls and invites him to
[01:09:17] Israel and Charlie said no. And yet BB
[01:09:19] then rushed to lie or I guess to not
[01:09:22] tell the whole truth when he says I
[01:09:24] called him two weeks ago and invited him
[01:09:25] to Israel. It's like and what did he say
[01:09:27] BB? What did what what did Charlie say
[01:09:30] back to you? So it's it is um yeah you
[01:09:33] know we we see that story playing out
[01:09:34] right now where you see the fight to
[01:09:37] make sure that they control people.
[01:09:38] People that genuinely like me and
[01:09:40] Charlie believe that they were just our
[01:09:41] friends and believed in our mission to
[01:09:43] just tell the truth no matter what that
[01:09:45] truth is. Which means that naturally if
[01:09:47] you're interested in committed to truth
[01:09:48] your perspectives will change with more
[01:09:50] information which is what happened to
[01:09:52] me. My perspective changed because well
[01:09:54] not even more information just
[01:09:55] information in general in large part
[01:09:58] thanks to the work uh that you're doing
[01:10:00] and uh people like Dave Smith and yeah
[01:10:02] it really woke me up to what happened
[01:10:04] there. There is the money issue and then
[01:10:08] the money issue is combined with the
[01:10:12] wholesale assault
[01:10:14] on academic freedom and on freedom of
[01:10:18] speech.
[01:10:20] Uh so we'll just take a recent example.
[01:10:25] There were the several young people.
[01:10:28] They were what's called nonitizen
[01:10:31] immigrants here. people like Khaled Makm
[01:10:34] Khalil at Columbia University
[01:10:37] and they were rounded up, sent off to
[01:10:42] strange places in some cases were things
[01:10:46] like literally
[01:10:49] writing an op-ed in the tough school
[01:10:52] newspap tough school newspaper. That's
[01:10:54] it. critical of the administration
[01:10:56] because of its support of Israel, de
[01:10:58] facto support of Israel.
[01:11:01] And there was
[01:11:04] a week and two weeks ago a decision uh
[01:11:08] came down in eastern eastern district
[01:11:10] court on this whole case with these
[01:11:12] guys, okay? Uh who were arrested by ICE
[01:11:17] put in strange places. The guy who wrote
[01:11:20] the decision, his name is Judge Young.
[01:11:23] He was a Reagan appointee. So we're not
[01:11:26] talking about Hamas supporter, a Reagan
[01:11:28] appointee
[01:11:30] and he wrote a 161page decision
[01:11:34] and he said
[01:11:38] nonres noncitizen
[01:11:41] immigrants they have the right to free
[01:11:42] speech.
[01:11:44] That's in our jurist prudence. They have
[01:11:47] that right. Number two,
[01:11:51] he said they didn't say anything that
[01:11:53] crossed any line.
[01:11:55] They supported the Palestinians. They
[01:11:59] didn't support Israel. That doesn't This
[01:12:02] is America.
[01:12:04] >> You have the right to free speech.
[01:12:07] You yourself might be surprised. Our
[01:12:10] Supreme Court has ruled. You have the
[01:12:13] right
[01:12:14] to advocate the violent overthrow of our
[01:12:18] government. the violent overthrow of our
[01:12:19] government. You have that right. That's
[01:12:22] what our Supreme Court ruled. Our
[01:12:24] Supreme Court ruled you have the right
[01:12:26] to burn the American flag.
[01:12:29] During the war in Vietnam,
[01:12:32] there are large number of demonstrators,
[01:12:34] myself included. You may not like it.
[01:12:37] I'm talking about our laws. We chanted
[01:12:40] ho ho ho Chi Min. The NLF National
[01:12:43] Liberation Front is going to win.
[01:12:46] >> Nobody got arrested for that.
[01:12:48] Nobody got pulled up off the street for
[01:12:51] that. There were literally millions of
[01:12:53] people chanting things like that.
[01:12:57] Now these young people in the
[01:12:59] encampments, they're chanting things
[01:13:02] like from the river to the sea,
[01:13:04] Palestine will be free. I don't like
[01:13:07] that slogan personally,
[01:13:10] but that's their right. This is America.
[01:13:14] And the judge ruled Reagan appointee,
[01:13:17] he's 85 years old, he says
[01:13:22] by not letting them speak, rounding them
[01:13:25] up, sending them off to strange places,
[01:13:27] he says, quote, you're terrorizing,
[01:13:30] that's the word he used, you're
[01:13:32] terrorizing
[01:13:34] people's right to free speech.
[01:13:37] He said when they ICE puts on the masks,
[01:13:41] you know what he said? I'm quoting him
[01:13:43] word for word. These are cowardly
[01:13:46] desperados
[01:13:48] acting like the Ku Klux Clan.
[01:13:52] That's the words he used. Who was behind
[01:13:54] this assault on our freedom of speech?
[01:13:57] >> The Trump administration. No, the Trump
[01:14:00] administration you could say broadly,
[01:14:03] but on the specific issue of the uh
[01:14:08] encampments and Israel and Palestine,
[01:14:10] that was the Jewish billionaire class,
[01:14:13] >> the Trump administration. [laughter]
[01:14:16] >> So, we're in radical agreement.
[01:14:17] >> But, but remember, it began under Biden.
[01:14:21] >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking about when he
[01:14:22] actually Makmoud Khal because I followed
[01:14:24] that case, right? And they were I was
[01:14:27] looking at I was because I believed in
[01:14:29] Trump and I voted for Trump and
[01:14:31] >> I agree with that part.
[01:14:32] >> They got up there and they pretended he
[01:14:34] was some terrorist and they lied and I'm
[01:14:35] like but he wasn't and we were the ones
[01:14:37] that said that we would fight for free
[01:14:39] free speech.
[01:14:39] >> He was actually the mediator at
[01:14:41] Columbia. He was I followed it. Yeah.
[01:14:43] >> You know, so
[01:14:45] it's a wholesale assault
[01:14:48] on freedom of speech in uh our society
[01:14:52] and it was led by these people. the same
[01:14:56] billionaire class um
[01:14:59] >> that cut checks and this is the problem
[01:15:01] when you take the money which I say you
[01:15:02] fight the king's wars
[01:15:03] >> I told
[01:15:04] >> how did Trump get into office who cut
[01:15:05] him to checks like who cut him a $100
[01:15:07] million check Miriam Mson um and so the
[01:15:11] presidency can be bought okay there's no
[01:15:13] question
[01:15:14] >> yes I think
[01:15:15] >> as all things in America you there is a
[01:15:18] certain level where you can purchase
[01:15:20] outright purchase influence and it's
[01:15:22] hard for us to to recognize that and I
[01:15:24] had to really come to terms with that.
[01:15:26] This was this has been hard for me as
[01:15:28] someone who has been a vocal supporter
[01:15:30] of Trump, truly believed that he sort of
[01:15:33] beat the billionaire class to get into
[01:15:36] office to see him so radically in this
[01:15:39] term specifically shift on the his
[01:15:43] perspectives of speech. I actually feel
[01:15:46] watching him pains me to see this
[01:15:48] administration play Twister to explain
[01:15:50] while we're free speech but you know
[01:15:53] this is different. These are Hamas
[01:15:55] supporters. All of these psychological
[01:15:56] games. And no, you're not instantly a
[01:15:58] Hamas supporter if you have questions
[01:16:01] about what's going on over there. And by
[01:16:02] the way, they also gaslight us where
[01:16:04] they're like, then they get to the
[01:16:06] you're obsessed with us. It's like, no,
[01:16:08] you guys were the ones that insisted
[01:16:11] insisted that we all have a perspective
[01:16:14] on October 7th. And so when some of us
[01:16:16] actually said, "Okay, well, let me get
[01:16:18] educated because maybe let me roll my
[01:16:20] sleeves up and be radically pro-Israel."
[01:16:22] Then when we looked and we pierced that
[01:16:25] veil, we went, "Oh my goodness, how was
[01:16:27] I ever perishial?" And now you want us
[01:16:29] to shut up. Now you want our influence
[01:16:31] gone. Now you want to smear us as
[01:16:33] anti-semmites and Hamas supporters. And
[01:16:35] it's it it really is telling.
[01:16:37] >> Well, there are two aspects.
[01:16:40] Number one, this is America. You're
[01:16:43] allowed to be a Hamas supporter. That's
[01:16:45] our freedom. I am not a flag waiver, but
[01:16:49] facts are facts. That's what was
[01:16:52] determined by our Supreme Court. And
[01:16:54] secondly, they're not. I mean, you're
[01:16:56] correct. They're not.
[01:16:57] >> They're not. And even if they were,
[01:16:59] yeah,
[01:16:59] >> exactly. They're not. And even if they
[01:17:02] were, you have that was what the judge
[01:17:04] said. The judge said, I disagree with a
[01:17:06] lot of the the things these people say,
[01:17:08] but that's their right.
[01:17:10] >> And I just also want to say this to just
[01:17:12] kind of get this off of my chest because
[01:17:13] this is what deeply troubles me the
[01:17:15] most. Going back to your slave analogy,
[01:17:17] which is actually not an analogy, what
[01:17:18] it feels like to me when these and now I
[01:17:22] recognize Jewish supremacists supported
[01:17:25] me and platformed me when I was
[01:17:26] attacking BLM cuz I I recognized this
[01:17:29] this altogether Marxist strand and I was
[01:17:32] saying and I stood up to my my own
[01:17:34] people, right? My own people and said,
[01:17:36] "Let me tell you why this is not going
[01:17:38] to work out. Let me tell you granddad's
[01:17:39] lessons." I wrote an entire book. You're
[01:17:42] amazing, Candace. let me get you this
[01:17:44] platform, that platform, fly you here.
[01:17:47] And then when I was like, oh yeah, and I
[01:17:49] know this is going to be hard for you,
[01:17:50] but you guys are now going to have to
[01:17:51] stand up to the Jew.
[01:17:53] >> Get out of here.
[01:17:54] >> Get out of here. You are gone. You were
[01:17:56] banned from Australia for speech. I
[01:17:58] mean, think about this. This is crazy.
[01:17:59] And I'm going, so what was I to you
[01:18:02] actually?
[01:18:03] >> I I was never there was something there
[01:18:05] was a difference here. We didn't believe
[01:18:06] we didn't you didn't agree with me
[01:18:08] principally on BLM stuff. You didn't cuz
[01:18:10] if the principles held if you said I
[01:18:12] believe in free speech and and you have
[01:18:15] to sometimes stand up in your own
[01:18:17] identity box and say something is wrong.
[01:18:19] They didn't agree with me principally.
[01:18:20] That troubles me.
[01:18:22] >> Yeah, it should trouble you.
[01:18:26] That's what happened
[01:18:28] to Glenn Lowry.
[01:18:31] I'll just tell you an anecdote that's
[01:18:34] called a October 7th and thereafter
[01:18:36] anecdote. So I wrote a book having
[01:18:39] nothing to do with Israel Palestine. It
[01:18:42] was on um
[01:18:44] cancel culture. This book okay
[01:18:49] and Glenn and I was very critical of the
[01:18:51] cancel culture, the woke phenomenon. I
[01:18:54] didn't uh
[01:18:57] I didn't agree with it. I strongly
[01:18:59] disagreed with it. So Glenn Lowry has me
[01:19:02] on. Okay. Now remember, I said I had
[01:19:07] given up on Gaza.
[01:19:09] And one of the things I did after I had
[01:19:11] given up on Gaza was write this book on
[01:19:14] cancel culture. Totally different
[01:19:16] subject.
[01:19:18] So
[01:19:19] Glenn Lowry has me on. Truth be told, I
[01:19:23] didn't want to talk about Gaza. I didn't
[01:19:26] want to talk about Israel Palestine. I
[01:19:28] had left it behind.
[01:19:31] I'm speaking factually, not proudly. I
[01:19:33] had left it behind. So Glenn Lowry says,
[01:19:36] he begins the show, it's under YouTube,
[01:19:38] you could see it. He begins the show by
[01:19:40] saying, "I would be remiss in my
[01:19:42] responsibility
[01:19:44] if I didn't ask you about your views on
[01:19:47] Israel Palestine.
[01:19:49] I didn't bring up the subject."
[01:19:51] He brought up the subject. Anybody
[01:19:54] curious, go watch the program. I had no
[01:19:57] intention whatsoever of talking about
[01:19:58] it. He brought it up. So he asked me my
[01:20:01] opinions. I expressed them and then we
[01:20:05] went on to talk about the book. Okay.
[01:20:09] Next week he does a program
[01:20:13] doesn't tell me anything. He and John
[01:20:16] McQuarter
[01:20:18] they devote about 20 or 30 minutes. I
[01:20:21] didn't watch the whole thing. It was
[01:20:22] kind of too painful. Not because of what
[01:20:26] they said about me,
[01:20:28] but the smarmyiness,
[01:20:32] the fact that they didn't alert me to
[01:20:36] what they were going to do.
[01:20:38] You know, the African-American spiritual
[01:20:40] scandalized my name. I gave my brother
[01:20:44] my right hand and as soon as ever my
[01:20:47] back was turned,
[01:20:49] >> he scandalized my name.
[01:20:50] >> That's how I feel.
[01:20:51] >> Do you call that a brother? No, no.
[01:20:55] Behind my back,
[01:20:57] they start to psychoanalyze me. John
[01:21:00] Mcwarter.
[01:21:02] I mean, he knew me for the length and
[01:21:05] breadth of the program.
[01:21:08] And what happens after October 7th?
[01:21:15] Glen Nori gets pressure to talk about
[01:21:17] what's happening here. and he has on
[01:21:20] Omar Barto, who's a senior scholar, says
[01:21:24] Israel is committing genocide.
[01:21:27] What happens? The Manhattan Institute
[01:21:31] pulls the plug.
[01:21:32] >> He You didn't know that?
[01:21:34] >> Oh, I'm surprised he didn't have you on.
[01:21:36] Yeah, they pulled the plug. Lost all the
[01:21:38] money. So
[01:21:41] on this, you know, John McWarter, he
[01:21:43] says, "Every day these poor Jewish
[01:21:47] students, they have to hear all of this
[01:21:50] anti-semitism at Colombia University.
[01:21:55] So just as a factual matter, all this
[01:21:59] anti-semitism, first of all, legally,
[01:22:02] even if they were being anti-semitic,
[01:22:04] they have the right. But is there any
[01:22:06] truth to it?"
[01:22:08] So the most uh substantial report on the
[01:22:12] subject came out from Harvard, 314 pages
[01:22:17] alleging anti-semitism.
[01:22:19] I read the report,
[01:22:22] I don't see anything. I said, you know,
[01:22:24] probably miss something that happens.
[01:22:27] I reread it. Actually, I see less.
[01:22:32] [laughter]
[01:22:34] It's what Briana Joy Gray would call a
[01:22:37] nothing burger.
[01:22:38] >> There's nothing there.
[01:22:40] >> So, you try to figure out, here's the
[01:22:43] question.
[01:22:45] >> How could you fill 314 pages on
[01:22:48] anti-semitism at Harvard when if you
[01:22:50] actually read the report, there's
[01:22:52] nothing there, evidence of
[01:22:54] anti-semitism. There's nothing.
[01:22:57] So then you see the trick. There's a
[01:23:01] little verbal trick. The trick is they
[01:23:05] say quote
[01:23:07] for the purposes of this report
[01:23:10] we are going to define anti-semitism
[01:23:14] as
[01:23:16] any time Jews Jewish students in
[01:23:19] particular they said Israeli Jewish
[01:23:21] students every time they feel
[01:23:26] >> that they're being excluded in the
[01:23:28] classroom
[01:23:29] or being excluded in extracurricular
[01:23:33] activities or they're being excluded in
[01:23:35] social life. That's going to be the
[01:23:38] definition of anti-semitism.
[01:23:42] Well, what does that mean? De facto.
[01:23:45] So, there are all these Israelis who are
[01:23:47] coming over to Harvard after serving in
[01:23:50] Gaza,
[01:23:51] right?
[01:23:53] And you are commanded now by Harvard in
[01:23:57] the name of what they call inclusiveness
[01:24:01] and pluralism.
[01:24:03] You have to pal around with them. And if
[01:24:07] you don't pal around with them, you're
[01:24:09] an anti-semite. That's literally I am
[01:24:12] not exaggerating a jut.
[01:24:15] >> If you don't So you don't want to be
[01:24:16] friends with murderers.
[01:24:18] >> Exactly.
[01:24:18] >> You're an anti-semite. If you don't want
[01:24:20] >> Well, maybe if that's the new
[01:24:21] definition.
[01:24:21] >> If you don't want to hang
[01:24:22] >> Maybe I've been anti-semit my whole
[01:24:23] life.
[01:24:25] >> If you want if you don't want to hang
[01:24:27] around with child killers.
[01:24:28] >> Yeah.
[01:24:29] >> You're an anti-semite.
[01:24:31] >> If you don't like Jeffrey Eprey Epstein,
[01:24:34] you're an anti-semite. I feel abuse
[01:24:36] children. Also, I get I get what we're
[01:24:37] doing off definition. Okay. Yeah. So
[01:24:40] it's it's essentially a command coming
[01:24:44] from the top down that we have to
[01:24:47] normalize
[01:24:48] >> child killers. We have to say okay
[01:24:51] Candace is when she applied to Harvard
[01:24:56] uh she had worked in a food kitchen and
[01:24:58] she put that in her personal statement.
[01:25:02] And uh Joe here, he helped build a
[01:25:08] sanitation system in the Congo.
[01:25:11] >> And then there is Yakov. Yakov killed
[01:25:15] children in Gaza. No, really.
[01:25:18] >> And we're supposed to treat
[01:25:21] all three as the same
[01:25:25] in the name of inclusiveness
[01:25:29] and pluralism.
[01:25:31] Now, that to me is a dictionary
[01:25:35] definition of insanity. I had a long
[01:25:38] exchange with a person I count as a
[01:25:40] friend. I like him very much. Cornell
[01:25:44] West. It was a public exchange and
[01:25:46] another woman who I absolutely like. Her
[01:25:50] name is Naen Straen, the former
[01:25:52] executive director of the ACLU.
[01:25:55] And we got into I wouldn't there was no
[01:26:00] animous hostility but it was intense
[01:26:03] because Dr. West's argument was
[01:26:08] uh if we excluded everybody who had
[01:26:10] blood in their hands
[01:26:13] or who propagated ideas
[01:26:18] that cause blood to be on your hands. He
[01:26:21] said that would incl ex exclude a large
[01:26:23] part of the Harvard faculty. You know,
[01:26:25] they're advisers to governments and they
[01:26:29] write books which influence public
[01:26:32] opinion.
[01:26:34] >> He said
[01:26:36] that's a slippery slope
[01:26:39] if you start that kind of exclusion.
[01:26:43] and Naen Straen
[01:26:46] uh she said that we have to invite
[01:26:49] everybody
[01:26:52] because the only way you can get a truth
[01:26:54] is hearing out all opinions
[01:26:57] and I I have to say that
[01:27:01] they can defend themselves and they did
[01:27:03] in the course of the exchange
[01:27:06] but to me because I do tend to like
[01:27:09] yourself I c I gather I do tend to
[01:27:12] personalize things.
[01:27:15] So, let's say after World War II,
[01:27:18] there's a Nazi concentration camp guard
[01:27:21] cuz those those are perfectly ordinary
[01:27:23] people who were guards in the camp and
[01:27:26] one of them is an an exchange student at
[01:27:28] Harvard. Perfectly possible.
[01:27:32] Okay.
[01:27:33] Now, you're telling me I should pal
[01:27:36] around with him
[01:27:38] >> if you don't want to be called an anti
[01:27:40] >> anti anti-German. Yeah. Yeah,
[01:27:42] >> I should be um
[01:27:46] inclusive.
[01:27:48] >> Well, nobody was more inclusive of the
[01:27:50] of the Nazis than the American CIA with
[01:27:52] Operation Paperclip and just giving them
[01:27:54] new identities. But
[01:27:55] >> yeah, well, but
[01:27:57] >> when it's convenient, they want you to
[01:27:59] forget everything someone does. When
[01:28:00] it's not convenient, don't ever forget
[01:28:02] what this person has done or who their
[01:28:03] family and grandfather is.
[01:28:05] >> Totally.
[01:28:05] >> At the drop of a hat, they decide.
[01:28:06] >> Totally agree. But you know what?
[01:28:10] That's not me.
[01:28:13] >> And I don't believe that's Dr. West. And
[01:28:17] I don't believe it's Naen Straa.
[01:28:19] >> I believe that in the real world if they
[01:28:22] had to confront that situation, they
[01:28:25] wouldn't p around with them.
[01:28:27] >> No,
[01:28:27] >> you know, of course they wouldn't. And
[01:28:29] that was the command at the end of this
[01:28:34] 314page
[01:28:36] report that you have to be inclusive of
[01:28:40] the Israeli Jewish students. We have to
[01:28:43] be pluralistic.
[01:28:45] No.
[01:28:46] >> Which by the way, one of the most
[01:28:47] offensive
[01:28:48] >> they called it they called it you have
[01:28:51] to stop shunning them.
[01:28:53] >> That's the word.
[01:28:54] >> I'm actually comfortable shunning
[01:28:55] murderers. I'm I am. Call me whatever
[01:28:58] you need to call me. That's why I always
[01:28:59] say you got to get over their game of ad
[01:29:02] hominant attacks because if we've got to
[01:29:04] be called names, not hang out with
[01:29:05] murderers, we got to get comfortable
[01:29:06] with that real fast.
[01:29:07] >> That's that's exactly you got to get
[01:29:09] comfortable real fast with murderers.
[01:29:12] No. No. That was the anti-semitism.
[01:29:15] A large a large I wouldn't certainly not
[01:29:18] a majority, but a significant number of
[01:29:21] the campus protesters were Jewish.
[01:29:25] How is it that they didn't detect this
[01:29:28] rampant anti-semitism?
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[01:32:30] Promo code candace. So, I wanted to
[01:32:32] actually because one of your books and
[01:32:34] this and and this one I have not read is
[01:32:37] called the Holocaust Industry.
[01:32:39] I want to talk to you about the
[01:32:40] Holocaust and uh please allow me to be
[01:32:43] offensive as I've been learning a lot
[01:32:45] about the Holocaust and why it is such a
[01:32:47] precious area where you are not allowed
[01:32:50] there's no incursion there's no you
[01:32:51] can't ask a question you can't even if
[01:32:53] if I said you know what I think it was 5
[01:32:56] million forget it I mean it's it it is
[01:32:59] very precious and protective and as I've
[01:33:01] be uh sort of began reading more books I
[01:33:04] I do have a theory and you may be
[01:33:07] offended by this theory you can push
[01:33:08] back on
[01:33:09] Uh but particularly I felt even more
[01:33:11] confirmed in this theory. Are you
[01:33:13] familiar with Nicholas Gruner?
[01:33:14] >> No.
[01:33:15] >> Okay. So Nicholas Gruner uh was an
[01:33:17] actual Awitz camp survivor. He was on
[01:33:20] the march, same march as your parents
[01:33:21] were on. Um your father
[01:33:23] >> Yeah. Your father was on and uh he wrote
[01:33:26] a book in Giddish about his experiences
[01:33:28] and there was a I'm sorry uh his friend
[01:33:30] who was with him on this walk who he
[01:33:33] wanted to reunite wrote this book in
[01:33:35] Giddish. And uh when he found out that
[01:33:37] his his friend had wrote this book and
[01:33:39] it had been translated uh into English,
[01:33:41] he went to go meet him, right? And it
[01:33:43] was like, I'm I'm going to be reunited
[01:33:44] with somebody that was in this camp with
[01:33:45] me. He gets to up to shaking this
[01:33:48] person's hand and he's like, you've
[01:33:51] taken on the identity. This this you're
[01:33:53] not the real survivor. That person whose
[01:33:55] hand he shook was Ellie Ellie Witzel. Um
[01:33:58] you might be familiar with him because
[01:33:59] he wrote the book Knight and it was
[01:34:00] proven that he lied about certain parts
[01:34:01] of it. Nobody knew why what this was.
[01:34:03] And so he then spent the rest of his
[01:34:05] life, Nicholas Gruner, dedicated to
[01:34:07] telling people that this man was
[01:34:08] effectively a gypsy who stole the
[01:34:10] identity of a real person. And he said
[01:34:11] he rolled up Nicholas rolled up his
[01:34:13] sleeve. He's like, "We all have tattoos.
[01:34:15] He's not going to have one cuz he's not
[01:34:16] the real guy. This guy took his
[01:34:18] identity." Well, it turns out that uh
[01:34:20] Ellie White was a cousin to Robert
[01:34:24] Maxwell, right? Fascinating, right?
[01:34:26] Absolutely fascinating. Robert Maxwell
[01:34:27] wrote about it in his own book uh his
[01:34:29] authorized uh biography. And we know
[01:34:32] Robert Maxwell obviously who everything
[01:34:35] about there is know about him. And I I
[01:34:37] was fascinated by this idea that there
[01:34:40] were people who were stealing the
[01:34:42] identity whether dead or alive of people
[01:34:44] who had actually been in the Awitz camps
[01:34:47] building on their stories in whatever
[01:34:48] way. And it's sad that nobody knows
[01:34:50] Nicholas Gruner's name. People should
[01:34:52] know his name because he it was a um it
[01:34:55] was a a valiant fight. and he uh to the
[01:34:59] to the very end said there are people
[01:35:00] who are stealing our identities and I go
[01:35:02] I've got this feeling that that happened
[01:35:04] a lot more than we think it happened.
[01:35:06] This is one guy and by the way Robert
[01:35:08] Maxwell then purchased a massive stake
[01:35:10] early on in in McGra Publishing McGra
[01:35:12] Hill which means that and then his wife
[01:35:16] was traveling around with Ellie Weatell
[01:35:17] and this guy was like this was not
[01:35:19] prisoner number whatever it was he took
[01:35:22] his identity and that's a really
[01:35:23] terrifying thing to think about that
[01:35:24] people with power saw okay these people
[01:35:28] were in camps maybe they they perished
[01:35:30] we can take their identities take their
[01:35:32] stories whatever it is he never found
[01:35:33] out what happened to his friend uh he
[01:35:35] assumes he died sometime after the camp
[01:35:37] and uh he did write it was his friend
[01:35:39] who wrote the manuscript in Yiddish and
[01:35:41] and then Ellie Weatel adopted that and
[01:35:45] now we have today as you determine a
[01:35:47] Holocaust industry. I'd like you to
[01:35:49] describe that but just what I'm telling
[01:35:50] you. I mean is that isn't that just the
[01:35:52] most terrifying thing ever? um
[01:35:56] we don't really know each other and
[01:35:59] we're having a serious conversation now
[01:36:02] and we should try to parse it just mean
[01:36:07] analyze it carefully.
[01:36:08] >> Yeah. So let me give you as I understand
[01:36:12] it the situation not just
[01:36:13] [clears throat] from family history but
[01:36:17] from having read quite a lot in the
[01:36:19] subject at a certain point in my life
[01:36:21] having read quite a lot I would say
[01:36:23] almost obsessively because of my family
[01:36:26] history and having written on aspects of
[01:36:30] it. [clears throat]
[01:36:32] Um the estimates are there was an
[01:36:36] extermination campaign by the Nazis. We
[01:36:40] don't know. Two main questions remain
[01:36:42] open. Two questions remain open. The the
[01:36:45] two questions that remain open are when
[01:36:48] when did it begin? That still is an
[01:36:50] ambiguous area. When did this Nazi
[01:36:53] extermination camp be actually begin
[01:36:57] Nazi extermination
[01:36:59] uh plan? And we still don't know with
[01:37:01] any kind of certainty why. What was
[01:37:05] Hitler's exact motive at that point. So
[01:37:08] the when and the why they remain gray
[01:37:11] areas. Now I have to be for people who
[01:37:13] are listening I have to be careful. I
[01:37:16] stopped reading about the subject about
[01:37:18] 20 years ago.
[01:37:21] >> So there may be new scholarship which
[01:37:23] supersedes what I have just said. But
[01:37:26] that's it. Here are the two crucial
[01:37:29] facts. one, I don't consider it crucial.
[01:37:33] The estimates by the best historians are
[01:37:36] between 5.2 and 5.4 million Jews who
[01:37:39] were killed. It doesn't make
[01:37:41] [clears throat] much of a difference.
[01:37:42] Let's say it was it wasn't, but let's
[01:37:45] say it was 3 million. That doesn't make
[01:37:47] it better, obviously. Okay? But the
[01:37:50] estimates are between 5.2 and 5.4.
[01:37:54] Now coming to your
[01:37:57] question
[01:38:00] um the Nazi extermination
[01:38:04] was very efficient.
[01:38:06] You can use a slur and say it was done
[01:38:10] with German efficiency and to some
[01:38:13] extent
[01:38:14] there's a truth to that. You know what
[01:38:16] makes a cliche a cliche is it's most of
[01:38:19] the time true.
[01:38:22] What is a generalization? A
[01:38:24] generalization is something that's
[01:38:25] generally true.
[01:38:27] What's a stereotype? A stereotype is a
[01:38:31] generalization that you don't like.
[01:38:33] If you say Jews are smart, people Jews
[01:38:37] like that generalization. If you say
[01:38:39] something else about Jews, that's a
[01:38:41] stereotype. But uh the Germans carried
[01:38:44] out the Nazi extermination with great
[01:38:47] efficiency.
[01:38:48] Why is that important?
[01:38:51] There were very few survivors.
[01:38:53] Now, Candies,
[01:38:55] I'm not trying to
[01:38:58] uh um [clears throat] I don't have an
[01:39:00] axe to grind. I'm just telling you
[01:39:03] factually.
[01:39:04] You take my mother. She had two sisters
[01:39:08] and a brother.
[01:39:09] >> They were exterminated.
[01:39:11] She had a mother and father. They were
[01:39:14] exterminated.
[01:39:16] My father, I don't know the details, but
[01:39:19] I know for sure he had one sister and
[01:39:21] one brother.
[01:39:22] These are taboo subjects in my home.
[01:39:25] Can't talk about them. So I don't know
[01:39:28] the detail. I know they were wiped out.
[01:39:30] One of the reasons I wasn't born
[01:39:32] mitzvot. I did not have a bar mitzvah.
[01:39:35] And you know why? I mean there are many
[01:39:36] reasons. Some my parents were resolute
[01:39:38] atheists.
[01:39:40] >> But one of the reasons was
[01:39:42] there was no one to invite. You see a
[01:39:45] bar mitzvah is a big family event. The
[01:39:48] cousins, the aunts, the uncles and so
[01:39:50] forth. Of course, the person being bar
[01:39:52] mitzvah invites his or her friends with
[01:39:55] his friends and being the person being
[01:39:57] bar mitzv or bach mitzvah. But the big
[01:40:01] thing it's a family occasion. There was
[01:40:03] no one to invite. There was no one to
[01:40:05] invite because the Nazi extermination
[01:40:09] was very efficient.
[01:40:11] So, the estimates are at the end of
[01:40:14] World War II, the estimates are
[01:40:18] uh less than a 100,000 less than 100,000
[01:40:22] uh Jews survived
[01:40:25] uh the Nazi Holocaust. Less than
[01:40:28] 100,000.
[01:40:31] Uh so
[01:40:33] that means
[01:40:36] where did all these survivors come from?
[01:40:38] Everybody claims there was a period when
[01:40:41] the Holocaust industry was in full
[01:40:45] uh was very lucrative.
[01:40:50] >> There was a period where everybody
[01:40:52] claimed to be a Holocaust survivor.
[01:40:54] >> Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting
[01:40:55] at.
[01:40:55] >> Yeah, they all claimed to be Holocaust
[01:40:57] survivors. They weren't Holocaust
[01:40:59] survivors. There was a person who I
[01:41:03] >> I actually think they were, but I I I
[01:41:05] fear they were survivors of another
[01:41:08] holocaust that was going on at the same
[01:41:09] time and they may have been in part
[01:41:11] executing it.
[01:41:13] >> Uh which is
[01:41:14] >> a question that Alexander Soljenit
[01:41:17] >> Scholen writes which is where did all
[01:41:20] the Bolsheviks go? Mhm.
[01:41:22] >> And I think, and this is again a theory,
[01:41:25] while we're allowed to think,
[01:41:26] >> well, this is a good opportunity right
[01:41:28] now to take on the identity of people
[01:41:31] who perished and just rewrite history of
[01:41:34] ourselves as the victims. And when I saw
[01:41:35] that Nicholas Gruner story, I was like,
[01:41:37] that's so terrifying because it's
[01:41:38] required reading coming up in schools.
[01:41:40] You have to read the story. There's tons
[01:41:42] of Holocaust people that we we reading
[01:41:44] your books talking about your parents
[01:41:45] and what they lived through. and they
[01:41:47] picked this man and
[01:41:48] >> there was look I I will get to the El
[01:41:51] Weisel this I I know it well in fact I'm
[01:41:54] not trying to promote the book it came
[01:41:56] out 25 years ago but I write a lot about
[01:41:59] Elie Weisel in the book okay
[01:42:03] so um I remember my father we both knew
[01:42:07] a person who had the tattoo
[01:42:11] the only place there were tattoos were
[01:42:13] Aitz was the only camp where they had
[01:42:15] the tattoos
[01:42:17] Um, and I said to my father about this
[01:42:20] person, and my father had a tattoo. Uh,
[01:42:23] I always knew the number. It was like
[01:42:25] 028128, something like that. I had
[01:42:28] memorized the number, but now I
[01:42:29] forgotten. I said to my father, I said,
[01:42:31] "Do you think he was in Avitz?" And my
[01:42:34] father said, "No." And my father was not
[01:42:37] a conspiracy person.
[01:42:38] >> Yeah.
[01:42:39] >> No. He just said very matterofactly,
[01:42:41] non-judgmentally, he just said no. And I
[01:42:44] said to my father, I asked my father,
[01:42:46] "So where did he get the number?" And my
[01:42:49] father said, I'm calling him now. He
[01:42:50] said, "Well, after the war,
[01:42:53] some people took it off and some people
[01:42:56] put it on." [laughter]
[01:42:59] >> But he didn't say it's a joke.
[01:43:00] >> Yeah. He's just like,
[01:43:02] >> "The incentive here is to have one."
[01:43:04] Yeah. It's it's bad. It's incentive.
[01:43:05] It's incentive culture. Obviously, I
[01:43:07] talk about this welfareism. If you're
[01:43:08] going to incentive bad behavior, people
[01:43:10] are going to do it.
[01:43:12] Yes, I I I
[01:43:15] without going into that because I was on
[01:43:17] tangent, but yes, and my father said
[01:43:19] very matter of factly. So, my mother
[01:43:23] used to get very frustrated because
[01:43:27] even more so than my father, she could
[01:43:30] never let go of what happened to her
[01:43:31] family. She couldn't let go.
[01:43:34] And there was something that really
[01:43:38] more than graded on her when people who
[01:43:42] didn't pass through what she passed
[01:43:45] through claimed to have passed through
[01:43:49] it. And she once ex exclaimed
[01:43:53] in a kind of
[01:43:56] bitter irony.
[01:43:59] She said, "If everybody who claims to be
[01:44:02] a Holocaust survivor actually is one,
[01:44:07] who did Hitler kill?" [laughter]
[01:44:10] So, everybody's claiming to be a
[01:44:11] Holocaust survivor. There are very few,
[01:44:14] a handful survived
[01:44:17] that ordeal.
[01:44:19] >> Now,
[01:44:20] especially particularly in Awitz because
[01:44:22] there's so many were like, "Well, I was
[01:44:24] you said the tattoo." There were all the
[01:44:27] all the death all the there were uh the
[01:44:29] death camps and then there were the
[01:44:31] concentration camp death camps. There
[01:44:33] were both were camps and and Avitz and
[01:44:36] Maidonic. I I once spoke to the world's
[01:44:39] leading authority in the Nazi holocaust.
[01:44:41] Raul Hillberg was very kind to me. He
[01:44:43] was uh like he was of your political
[01:44:45] persuasion. He was a right-wing
[01:44:48] Republican. He swore by the Wall Street
[01:44:51] Journal. I was at the other end of the
[01:44:53] spectrum and I was a total pariah.
[01:44:57] However,
[01:44:59] don't ask me why because I've never
[01:45:02] really understood it.
[01:45:04] He kept defending me.
[01:45:08] I was always very nervous around him. I
[01:45:12] didn't want to say anything wrong
[01:45:15] because he was kind of my savior. He was
[01:45:18] saying that what Finkelstein is writing
[01:45:20] is true.
[01:45:22] And when the tenure battle erupted at
[01:45:27] the Paul University,
[01:45:29] he gave this very moving
[01:45:32] defense of me and he said that I told
[01:45:36] the truth. It was at a very big price.
[01:45:39] He said, but he said in the history of
[01:45:44] those writing about history,
[01:45:48] Finkelstein's place is secure.
[01:45:51] In any event, I once asked him, he lived
[01:45:54] in Vermont.
[01:45:56] He taught at the University of Vermont.
[01:45:58] Uh he was very much his own person, so
[01:46:01] he could never get a job at a top
[01:46:04] university.
[01:46:06] Uh he said uh very few women survived
[01:46:11] might neck. That's where my mother was.
[01:46:14] Very few people. Uh so it was worse.
[01:46:18] Actually, the women's section was worse
[01:46:22] than at uh Avitz.
[01:46:25] Uh in any event,
[01:46:29] uh
[01:46:30] once the Holocaust industry became an
[01:46:33] industry,
[01:46:36] they were very picky about who they
[01:46:37] promoted. Now, Elie Weisel was a
[01:46:41] fanatical supporter of Israel.
[01:46:44] He was fanatically
[01:46:46] pro- anything that any American
[01:46:48] government would say. And so he was
[01:46:51] became the spokesperson for the
[01:46:54] Holocaust. As his personal history, I'm
[01:46:57] just going to give you the details as I
[01:46:59] understand them. Okay?
[01:47:03] He claims he was in Aitz. He claimed
[01:47:05] that he was now shitz
[01:47:08] and he describes in the book night.
[01:47:12] He describes some scenes which Raul
[01:47:15] Hillberg Raul Hberg the person I
[01:47:18] mentioned uh to you from the person who
[01:47:21] defended me and for reasons which still
[01:47:23] remain except integrity you know which
[01:47:26] is so rare. He was the chief historian
[01:47:31] for the Holocaust memorial in
[01:47:34] Washington.
[01:47:35] Elie Weisel personally picked him
[01:47:38] because Weisel knew he knew his stuff.
[01:47:42] And um
[01:47:44] he said there were certain scenes that
[01:47:47] Weisel describes in night
[01:47:51] that occurred at Avitz.
[01:47:54] Weel uh uh Hillberg said they could not
[01:47:59] have happened.
[01:48:00] >> They could not.
[01:48:01] >> Without question they didn't happen. And
[01:48:03] you read Nicholas Gruner. Obviously,
[01:48:05] >> when Weisel was confronted
[01:48:08] with Hillberg saying they happened, he
[01:48:12] doubled down and said they did happen.
[01:48:15] Weisel I speak to I knew some, not many,
[01:48:21] I knew some
[01:48:23] first rank Holocaust historians and they
[01:48:26] told me he was deported in 40 1944 from
[01:48:31] Hungary. That was one of the last
[01:48:33] deportations from Hungary and he maybe
[01:48:38] passed through Avitz on route to a labor
[01:48:42] camp that may have happened. uh
[01:48:45] according to the people I talked to. But
[01:48:49] there was clearly if you I discuss it at
[01:48:51] some length in that little book, we sell
[01:48:54] figures not in a cameo role, but he has
[01:48:57] a major uh he's a star of the Holocaust
[01:49:01] industry.
[01:49:01] >> Yeah. I I mean I I I'm glad that I put
[01:49:04] Nicholas Gruner on your radar because he
[01:49:06] just knew the guy. He literally stole
[01:49:07] his identity. I mean it's like it's it's
[01:49:08] it's a crazy he knew him because you
[01:49:11] know obviously when you're in a camp
[01:49:12] together and he was like just so excited
[01:49:14] to meet to reme meet this someone who
[01:49:17] had had this experience with him and
[01:49:18] described the march everything and you
[01:49:20] know the souls of his feet and he just
[01:49:21] was like he's what he did
[01:49:23] >> was the real person wrote the manuscript
[01:49:25] and this gypsy just took on his identity
[01:49:28] and when he describes that moment of
[01:49:30] being on the plane what am I going to
[01:49:31] say to him like we haven't seen each
[01:49:33] other and then like could you imagine
[01:49:34] being confronted and going you're not
[01:49:37] wait a second you're not Norm
[01:49:38] Finglestein. You're not Norm. And that
[01:49:40] is and he said he had cameras ready and
[01:49:42] they like shook hands and then he even
[01:49:44] said what's even crazier is the real um
[01:49:47] Holocaust survivor spoke Hungarian.
[01:49:50] >> And Elie couldn't speak Hungarian at
[01:49:52] this time when this happened. And so he
[01:49:53] starts he's like he says, "Let's speak
[01:49:55] in English." It's an incredible It's
[01:49:57] just an incredible thing to comprehend
[01:49:59] that. And I think my the best that I can
[01:50:02] guess is that you had these psychopaths
[01:50:05] like you know true bullshik psychopaths
[01:50:07] who were like well we can't just walk in
[01:50:08] and be like well you know I was just
[01:50:09] kind of running the bolevik camp over
[01:50:11] here mass murdering Christians so what
[01:50:13] better way to rein yourself into into
[01:50:15] society than to be like I'm I'm the
[01:50:18] ultimate victim. I survived uh the Awitz
[01:50:21] camp. I think that's what happened. I
[01:50:22] think they laundered their their they
[01:50:25] laundered through and that's why there's
[01:50:26] so much confusion and people like you're
[01:50:27] denying that any that people died here
[01:50:29] because there's some people that were
[01:50:30] like well nothing ever happened you know
[01:50:32] and it's like no something definitely
[01:50:34] you read this guy Nicholas Gruner and
[01:50:35] you're like this happened
[01:50:38] >> and there are some people who never
[01:50:39] lived a day in their lives of that and I
[01:50:41] say Ellie Beetle is one of them who took
[01:50:43] their personalities took their
[01:50:44] identities
[01:50:45] >> fullon gypsy
[01:50:46] >> I um I actually regrettably I read a on
[01:50:52] the Elie Visel case and I I tend to
[01:50:57] defer
[01:50:58] to Hillberg's judgment and I think the
[01:51:02] judgment that there were in his
[01:51:06] so-called memoir
[01:51:08] uh there were fabricated scenes is
[01:51:12] correct.
[01:51:13] However, I also believe that, you know,
[01:51:17] when you explore any concrete situation,
[01:51:20] any concrete situation, there are going
[01:51:23] to be things that are inexplicable.
[01:51:27] You just can't explain how or why that
[01:51:31] happened.
[01:51:32] And you have to accept that in any
[01:51:37] historical reconstruction
[01:51:40] [clears throat]
[01:51:41] there are going to be
[01:51:43] uh in inexplicable enigmatic phenomenon.
[01:51:48] M
[01:51:49] >> um and I think
[01:51:52] in the case of the Nazi Holocaust,
[01:51:55] it's sort of like the flat earth
[01:51:58] society.
[01:51:59] When you want to deny a certain
[01:52:02] phenomenon, of course, you have the
[01:52:04] right to deny it. That's as
[01:52:09] to to deny a person the right to deny is
[01:52:13] what the great British philosopher
[01:52:16] uh John Stewart Mill called the
[01:52:18] presumption of infallibility that you
[01:52:21] know the truth and nobody else can know
[01:52:24] the truth. No, we're fallible creatures.
[01:52:27] We're capable of error. And we always
[01:52:31] have to leave some corner of our mind
[01:52:36] open to the possibility
[01:52:39] that our deepest most sacred beliefs,
[01:52:43] our foundational beliefs
[01:52:45] >> could be wrong.
[01:52:46] >> Could be wrong.
[01:52:47] >> Y
[01:52:48] >> could be wrong. However,
[01:52:51] if you're like in the flat earth society
[01:52:54] and you say the world is not round,
[01:52:59] in order to be credible,
[01:53:03] you have to respond to
[01:53:06] the mountain of evidence that's
[01:53:10] accumulated
[01:53:12] that shows the world is round. M
[01:53:14] >> you have the right to say the earth is
[01:53:17] flat, but you also, if you're
[01:53:20] responsible,
[01:53:22] have to respond to a massive
[01:53:26] accumulation of evidence to the
[01:53:29] contrary.
[01:53:31] >> If you can't respond to it or don't
[01:53:34] respond to it, in my opinion, you're not
[01:53:37] entitled to be taken seriously.
[01:53:40] >> You're just a fraud.
[01:53:40] >> Yeah, fine. You're just a fraud. M
[01:53:43] >> we agree. So
[01:53:46] uh
[01:53:49] my parents
[01:53:51] could be iconoclastic.
[01:53:54] They could be very bitter.
[01:54:00] By the way, the Nazi Holocaust has been
[01:54:03] not just misused
[01:54:06] but weaponized
[01:54:09] to justify all sorts of things which
[01:54:14] in many places are not just deplorable
[01:54:19] but abominations.
[01:54:22] However, in all their anger and
[01:54:26] indignation
[01:54:28] which was transmitted to me
[01:54:34] uh in the it never would have occurred
[01:54:38] to them
[01:54:40] to deny
[01:54:42] the horror that they endured.
[01:54:46] So when I wrote the little book, The
[01:54:49] Holocaust Industry,
[01:54:52] which
[01:54:54] caused me a lot of public grief
[01:55:00] and defamation,
[01:55:02] >> which means it's a must readad.
[01:55:03] [laughter]
[01:55:04] >> I know what that means. It's a must
[01:55:06] readad. When I when I
[01:55:09] uh wrote the book, I was always very
[01:55:14] clear from day one.
[01:55:16] I am not writing about the Nazi
[01:55:19] Holocaust. That's not what this book is
[01:55:22] about. There are many people with
[01:55:26] a vast knowledge of the subject. I have
[01:55:30] only a tiny by comparison a tiny
[01:55:35] amount of knowledge of the subject. This
[01:55:37] book is about how the Nazi Holocaust was
[01:55:41] as if you can read the subtitle
[01:55:45] >> reflections on the exploitation of
[01:55:48] Jewish suffering.
[01:55:49] >> Yes. It's about how
[01:55:51] >> a horrendous event was exploited
[01:55:57] and the exploitation now
[01:56:01] has reached the point that it makes
[01:56:05] people so angry at how it's being
[01:56:10] exploited in the most in the cheapest
[01:56:13] most vulgar and also not speaking as a
[01:56:17] person who's not religious but sin ful
[01:56:20] ways to say justify the genocide
[01:56:23] justifying the genocide in Gaza that it
[01:56:27] causes people
[01:56:30] to then want to deny
[01:56:32] it ever happened.
[01:56:35] I believe we have to make the
[01:56:37] distinction
[01:56:39] it happened
[01:56:41] but also
[01:56:44] the way has been manipulated,
[01:56:47] exploited,
[01:56:48] weaponized
[01:56:50] has also happened.
[01:56:53] Both of those things happened just like
[01:56:58] as I discussed with people I was on the
[01:57:00] program with Brianna Joy Gray a few days
[01:57:02] ago. I said when you start talking about
[01:57:06] Jews and money,
[01:57:08] it very easily feeds a feeds a
[01:57:12] stereotype.
[01:57:15] However,
[01:57:17] it's also true there's a problem here. A
[01:57:22] billionaire billionaire class of Jewish
[01:57:25] supremacists
[01:57:27] are now flagrantly,
[01:57:31] brazenly
[01:57:33] using money as a blackmail weapon to
[01:57:37] silence not just criticism of Jews,
[01:57:42] but silence criticism of an ongoing
[01:57:47] genocide as we speak. And we have to
[01:57:51] address that also. Now, it's very hard
[01:57:55] to address it
[01:57:57] >> without feeding the stereotype.
[01:57:59] >> But I think it's and that's why it's so
[01:58:01] important for me to constantly be
[01:58:03] addressing Jewish Americans because
[01:58:04] something that they're very good at
[01:58:06] doing is pretending that there's no
[01:58:08] differences. Like that's that's identity
[01:58:09] politics. Like you're Jewish, therefore
[01:58:11] this is your history, therefore this is
[01:58:13] this is how you should be responding to
[01:58:14] this. And that gives them so much power.
[01:58:16] So it's very important to study the
[01:58:18] Bolsheviks, right? Because that means at
[01:58:19] the same time you had Jewish people who
[01:58:23] were suffering actually and legitimately
[01:58:26] and you had Jewish psychopaths, okay,
[01:58:29] who were mass murdering Henrik Yagod,
[01:58:33] okay, mass murdering Christians. The
[01:58:36] same thing is happening right now, okay?
[01:58:38] You have you have literal psychopaths,
[01:58:41] and I would describe them as Zionists,
[01:58:43] okay? uh Zionist psychopaths who are
[01:58:45] happy to oversee the slaughter of
[01:58:47] children. Some people who I think
[01:58:49] actually look happy when you talk about
[01:58:50] it. It's it's so disturbing spiritually
[01:58:51] to see people who can joke about
[01:58:54] suffering and things of that nature. And
[01:58:55] then you have people who are dealing
[01:58:57] with the kickback of those people who
[01:58:59] don't have platforms who are being
[01:59:01] treated as if and it's because both of
[01:59:03] everybody around the world needs to
[01:59:04] understand it is possible for you you
[01:59:08] can be any identity and to have multiple
[01:59:10] things going on at once. And I truly
[01:59:13] believe that the the Zionist ideology is
[01:59:16] an evil. It is a it is it is a this idea
[01:59:19] that you are it is a it's an evil
[01:59:21] because it's a supremacist ideology that
[01:59:23] says you can trample over anybody's
[01:59:25] rights as long as it is like you know
[01:59:28] you serve Israel and and that's what I
[01:59:31] have seen in my experience is that even
[01:59:33] people who I thought were fundamentally
[01:59:35] good when it came down to it turned into
[01:59:37] and celebrated the death of children
[01:59:39] because those children were Palestinian
[01:59:42] and were not Israeli and and it's
[01:59:44] shocking. It it still continues to shock
[01:59:46] me to recognize that.
[01:59:48] >> I I
[01:59:50] I want to just say a couple of things.
[01:59:52] Candace, you don't know me from a hole
[01:59:54] in the wall and I barely know you. It's
[01:59:56] just a fact. I'm not a web person. I've
[01:59:59] said that.
[02:00:00] >> I am from the left tradition. You are
[02:00:03] from
[02:00:03] >> the right.
[02:00:04] >> The right. And my reading of say Russian
[02:00:08] history is going to be radically
[02:00:10] different than your own.
[02:00:13] And I have to say that because there'll
[02:00:15] be people who after watching this say
[02:00:17] why didn't Finkelestein say that he is
[02:00:19] actually a supporter of Lenin and Trosky
[02:00:21] and all those
[02:00:23] >> right I wasn't a Troskis but I was in
[02:00:24] that certainly within that uh trajectory
[02:00:28] for sure and I still am
[02:00:31] >> I'm an old man but I still am. Um,
[02:00:36] but having said that and setting the
[02:00:40] record straight,
[02:00:42] I I think you are correct that there are
[02:00:47] aspects of what's going on now
[02:00:51] that are just hugely ugly. You know,
[02:00:56] take a simple example. A simple example,
[02:01:00] you use a computer, right?
[02:01:04] And sometimes, I don't know nowadays
[02:01:07] with computers, but sometimes you can
[02:01:09] work on something for three hours. You
[02:01:11] remember the day and then you can lose
[02:01:13] everything.
[02:01:14] >> You press the wrong key, everything is
[02:01:16] gone. Now, they have backups and
[02:01:18] backups, but I don't know how to use
[02:01:20] them. So, I lose whenever. Okay. And
[02:01:23] then you lose something that you worked
[02:01:26] on for three hours. Okay. And you think
[02:01:30] it's the end of the world. Oh my god. Oh
[02:01:33] my god, I lost I worked on it for three
[02:01:36] hours. Oh my god,
[02:01:39] you lose three hours worth of
[02:01:42] information or work and information
[02:01:46] and then you're in Gaza.
[02:01:49] This is not being done behind the
[02:01:51] scenes.
[02:01:53] These are Israeli soldiers
[02:01:56] posting
[02:01:58] on the social media
[02:02:00] their ecstasy and their euphoria when
[02:02:04] they blow up Palestinian homes.
[02:02:07] Not three hours on your computer.
[02:02:11] Your whole life is vaporized.
[02:02:14] >> And they're thrilled. They're thrilled.
[02:02:18] You know, they have what's called in
[02:02:20] Gaza controlled demolitions.
[02:02:22] >> That's what's Everything has happened
[02:02:24] since October 7th has been a controlled
[02:02:26] demolition.
[02:02:27] >> I agree with you. Everything has been
[02:02:30] with intent to use the words of the 1948
[02:02:35] genocide convention. It's intent to
[02:02:37] destroy a people. Okay.
[02:02:41] Just one step further. They go into
[02:02:43] neighborhoods where there's no Hamas,
[02:02:46] there's no nothing.
[02:02:48] And they just calmly rope off the area
[02:02:52] and then detonate whole neighborhoods.
[02:02:55] >> Yeah.
[02:02:56] >> Now
[02:02:57] >> because they're going to turn it into a
[02:02:58] beach town.
[02:02:59] >> Well, they want to they said over and
[02:03:01] over again.
[02:03:02] >> Jared Kushner is on camera saying it.
[02:03:03] >> Yeah. We're going to make Gaza, this is
[02:03:07] they said over and over again, we're
[02:03:09] going to make Gaza unlivable.
[02:03:11] >> So you'll have two choices. to stay and
[02:03:15] starve or to leave.
[02:03:18] >> That's why all this talk about the Trump
[02:03:21] plant is so silly.
[02:03:24] There's nothing there.
[02:03:26] Do you know 95%
[02:03:30] of the homes,
[02:03:32] 95
[02:03:34] have been vaporized.
[02:03:35] >> I thought that it was 85, so it's up to
[02:03:37] 95. was 92%
[02:03:40] before the assaults on Rafa and Gaza
[02:03:43] City. So now it's about 95%.
[02:03:46] >> There is 50 million tons of rubble.
[02:03:52] The main agencies, UN and international
[02:03:56] humanitarian agencies, they say that
[02:03:59] it'll take until the year 2050
[02:04:02] to clear away the rubble
[02:04:06] because the rubble is mixed in with all
[02:04:08] of these toxic substances like asbests
[02:04:12] and also unexloded ordinance.
[02:04:16] So
[02:04:18] they did they you know everyone says
[02:04:20] well Netanyahu didn't achieve his goal.
[02:04:22] Actually he did achieve
[02:04:23] >> he did. Of course he did. I mean
[02:04:25] >> he said we would we will make Gaza
[02:04:28] unlivable
[02:04:30] >> either stay and starve or leave.
[02:04:33] >> He achieved his fundamental goal. Now,
[02:04:36] he was hoping for a stampede of them
[02:04:40] leaving or incentivized to leave by the
[02:04:44] relentless bombing and artillery firing,
[02:04:47] but now they'll leave in a trickle
[02:04:49] because there's nothing to go back to.
[02:04:52] There's nothing there. It's been
[02:04:55] pulverized.
[02:04:57] So,
[02:04:59] um,
[02:05:00] >> one of the things I want to say that I
[02:05:01] find to be especially dark about the
[02:05:02] Gaza situation,
[02:05:03] >> I just want to complete the thought. So
[02:05:07] what you're saying when you say that
[02:05:09] they're actually happy about it,
[02:05:12] >> that's not a speculative
[02:05:16] pronouncement by you. They posted it and
[02:05:19] they still do. They post it on their
[02:05:22] social media
[02:05:23] >> what they're doing as they do it. That's
[02:05:27] a fact. You can't get, you know, when
[02:05:29] you read a lot of the human rights
[02:05:31] reports
[02:05:33] and the reports by genocide experts,
[02:05:37] a lot of, you know, what their evidence
[02:05:39] is?
[02:05:40] They're citing the social media what the
[02:05:43] Israelis post.
[02:05:45] >> Mhm.
[02:05:46] >> It's really dark. The videos,
[02:05:47] >> it's very dark.
[02:05:48] >> It's very dark. And you see something in
[02:05:49] their eyes. That's what I always say.
[02:05:51] Like
[02:05:51] >> the eyes are the window to the soul.
[02:05:53] There there is a that's what I say it's
[02:05:55] demonic force that rules that that
[02:05:56] nothing I don't care who the child was.
[02:05:58] If I saw a child suffering I have a
[02:06:01] natural spiritual response to that. I
[02:06:02] don't care if that child is Arab,
[02:06:04] Jewish, uh black, white, it doesn't
[02:06:06] matter.
[02:06:07] >> They don't have that. Instead, they're
[02:06:09] it's like and you see it even in the
[02:06:11] commentators or Zionists. It's like
[02:06:12] they're they're [clears throat] trying
[02:06:13] not to crack a smile in a joke about how
[02:06:16] how many of these kids have been killed.
[02:06:18] It's it's it's really disturbing. But I
[02:06:21] have to see God in this, which is is
[02:06:23] just to say that what is happening in
[02:06:25] Gaza has awakened the world and America
[02:06:28] is the best evidence of that because we
[02:06:30] were the most asleep. Um uh and we were
[02:06:33] like zombies on the Israel issue. Yeah,
[02:06:35] of course we support Israel. It's size
[02:06:36] is the New Jersey. Why can't you know
[02:06:38] all the talking points and there has
[02:06:40] been this sort of radical reaction and
[02:06:41] and so that tells us that people when
[02:06:44] they are armed with facts and knowledge
[02:06:46] are fundamentally good. you know,
[02:06:48] they're fundamentally good and and we're
[02:06:49] fighting back and it's hard and there
[02:06:50] are people that are selling out,
[02:06:52] >> but I think I think truth is winning.
[02:06:54] >> I believe truth is winning and we have
[02:06:57] to I think credit it to two reasons. One
[02:07:01] is a horrible reason to credit.
[02:07:04] Israel is conducting a genocide in broad
[02:07:06] daylight. It was very hard to conceal.
[02:07:09] >> Mhm. But number two, it was because a
[02:07:14] large number of media outlets in
[02:07:17] particular on the web were out of
[02:07:19] control. And now there's a retrenchment,
[02:07:23] an attempt to control Tik Tok, control
[02:07:27] CBS News, control CNN. They're trying to
[02:07:32] now
[02:07:34] methodically
[02:07:35] gain control again of, as the expression
[02:07:38] has it, gain control of the narrative.
[02:07:42] >> And there's a real problem on our
[02:07:45] college campuses right now. There are
[02:07:48] students, professors,
[02:07:51] in fact tenur professors
[02:07:55] are terrified of saying anything
[02:07:59] supportive of the Palestinians or
[02:08:01] critical of Israel. You remember in the
[02:08:04] spring of 2024
[02:08:06] there were all the encampments
[02:08:09] and you know what the next a whole
[02:08:13] academic a whole academic year passed
[02:08:17] without anything.
[02:08:20] It was like this eerie silence had
[02:08:23] descended on the college campuses
[02:08:26] because the students were terrified
[02:08:29] >> and uh so
[02:08:31] the media,
[02:08:34] academia,
[02:08:36] uh they're trying to regain control
[02:08:39] right now. And so I believe that people
[02:08:44] have in particular on the college
[02:08:46] campuses have to find you know like you
[02:08:49] said earlier it takes a lot of courage.
[02:08:52] >> You know there were a lot of students
[02:08:53] who were suspended because of the
[02:08:57] encampments.
[02:08:59] They weren't allowed to attend
[02:09:01] graduation
[02:09:02] because of the encampments. And then if
[02:09:05] you were foreign students you were
[02:09:06] rounded up because of the encampment.
[02:09:10] Uh that's it does require courage.
[02:09:13] >> But I want I also want to remind people
[02:09:14] when you think that that requires
[02:09:16] courage is imagine being someone in Gaza
[02:09:18] right now.
[02:09:18] >> Like our it's such a small price to pay
[02:09:21] in my opinion.
[02:09:23] >> And was it scary? Yeah. I'm not going to
[02:09:24] pretend like last year was easy for me
[02:09:26] and my family. Uh but we were we were me
[02:09:29] and my husband were so committed to
[02:09:31] truth that we were just like whatever
[02:09:33] comes whatever cost comes you you are
[02:09:35] now in that challenge and people say
[02:09:37] what would you have done? We are finding
[02:09:39] out right now what people would have
[02:09:41] done when faced with a genocide. You
[02:09:43] know, do you turn the other way? Do you
[02:09:44] accept the money? Do you continue to be
[02:09:46] a part of the apparatus of the academia
[02:09:49] which lies routinely? That's why I say
[02:09:51] people should read Thomas Soul and he
[02:09:52] will tell you that every bad idea comes
[02:09:54] from academia. Um comes from the cult of
[02:09:56] academia. They will always publish the
[02:09:57] books and lie about what's happening.
[02:09:59] And it's because actually it's always
[02:10:01] been controlled. So people we're trying
[02:10:03] to achieve academics when in reality
[02:10:05] it's a small club and you got to have
[02:10:06] the right perspective is if you want to
[02:10:08] stay in it uh no matter how accomplished
[02:10:10] or if you're brighter and I I I really
[02:10:12] challenge people to recognize that. So
[02:10:15] you are talking about maybe losing um
[02:10:18] you know money
[02:10:20] >> you know for a young person I I try to
[02:10:22] be sympathetic
[02:10:24] for a young person
[02:10:27] it is a big price no it's not the price
[02:10:30] of Gaza
[02:10:32] but
[02:10:33] their parents are shelling out a large
[02:10:35] amount of money you know money can't be
[02:10:38] a ruler I school cost about $80,000 a
[02:10:41] year now for a student And then if you
[02:10:47] saw places like Harvard, it wasn't just
[02:10:50] your college,
[02:10:52] they were blacklisting them at law
[02:10:55] firms. As in, they said literally, we're
[02:10:58] not talking again
[02:10:59] >> poetry.
[02:11:01] >> We are going to get a list of names of
[02:11:04] everybody in those encampments. They
[02:11:07] will never get a job at our law firm.
[02:11:10] That's what they were being told. Mhm.
[02:11:11] >> They will never get a job,
[02:11:12] >> which is good.
[02:11:13] >> Well,
[02:11:14] >> I think I'm going to tell you, I put the
[02:11:15] pressure on their parents, not on the
[02:11:16] kids. I say if this is happening, this
[02:11:18] is we we have to be ahead of them. So,
[02:11:20] we need to establish our own law firms.
[02:11:22] If your kid got into Harvard, they're
[02:11:24] the cream of the crop. Great. The
[02:11:25] problem is is that we are stepping into
[02:11:27] where they can control the entire
[02:11:29] plantation when we have what it takes to
[02:11:31] create our own stuff. We have to be
[02:11:32] innovative.
[02:11:33] >> It's not for me. It's not for me to tell
[02:11:35] them. You see, they have the right to
[02:11:37] choose their own future,
[02:11:39] >> and they're being denied it. You know
[02:11:41] what they did at Harvard?
[02:11:44] These creepy organizations,
[02:11:47] they did not only have what were called
[02:11:50] doxing trucks where they went around
[02:11:53] Harvard and they posted pictures of the
[02:11:57] students and calling them terrorists.
[02:12:00] And then
[02:12:00] >> that was crazy.
[02:12:01] >> You know what else they did? You
[02:12:02] wouldn't even believe it if I told you.
[02:12:04] I would
[02:12:05] >> they took the trucks
[02:12:08] and they went to their parents' homes.
[02:12:10] >> Yeah, I did hear that and I I commented
[02:12:11] on
[02:12:12] >> 500 miles away.
[02:12:14] >> So I have to put No, we have to try to
[02:12:17] step in the shoes of others.
[02:12:19] >> Oh, I'm not saying they don't have a
[02:12:20] right to be traumatized by those events.
[02:12:21] >> No, but I'm saying my parents if a truck
[02:12:25] was going up and down their block
[02:12:28] >> saying Norman Finkelestein is a
[02:12:30] terrorist,
[02:12:31] >> my parents would kill me.
[02:12:34] They would kill me.
[02:12:35] >> Yeah.
[02:12:36] >> What are you doing?
[02:12:36] >> Yeah. But I I think now the point of
[02:12:39] this that I and I want you use my
[02:12:40] platform to say is parents toughen up.
[02:12:43] Okay. Because the people that are doing
[02:12:44] this are psychological terrorists.
[02:12:46] That's the reason they're doing this is
[02:12:47] to give you that embarrassment. They
[02:12:49] have the money to embarrass you. They
[02:12:50] have the money to blacklist you. But
[02:12:51] what that actually reveals is a
[02:12:53] fundamental problem in the system that
[02:12:55] you can be punished for doing and saying
[02:12:57] the right thing. It means we've got to
[02:12:59] change it. Like I I say to parents, pull
[02:13:01] your kids out of these schools. And I'm
[02:13:02] so happy that homeschooling is
[02:13:03] happening. Why do your kids want to go
[02:13:05] to to Harvard? Right. Well, because they
[02:13:07] say this is the best school. We'll give
[02:13:09] you all these networks. We we we and
[02:13:11] they do. They have access. They have a
[02:13:13] network. You're more likely to get a
[02:13:14] job. But I'm saying that like it's going
[02:13:17] to take us being bold for us to crash
[02:13:20] this system that says Norm Finkelestein
[02:13:22] can't be tenured. Okay. But Barry Weiss
[02:13:24] can be the president of CBS. We are
[02:13:26] going to have to be the radicals. This
[02:13:28] is what I saying about her. We have we
[02:13:30] it's we have a very small window of
[02:13:31] opportunity here right before they start
[02:13:33] coming for speech in America which
[02:13:34] they're trying to do.
[02:13:35] >> I believe that
[02:13:36] >> and so we have to be literally be
[02:13:39] >> I've said that I pulled my I totally
[02:13:42] agree with you there is an assault right
[02:13:45] now going on against freedom of speech
[02:13:48] >> which is a real problem.
[02:13:50] >> So when I see a kid that's being put on
[02:13:52] one of their lists
[02:13:53] >> like there's this account where they say
[02:13:55] anti-semite of the week and now they're
[02:13:57] doing like 22 year olds. I said, "Hey
[02:13:58] guys, this is now Forbes 30 under 30. We
[02:14:01] should be hiring." As soon as we see
[02:14:02] these kids that are being put on this
[02:14:05] list and this Harvard person did this,
[02:14:07] I'm like, "Can I hire her?" That's my
[02:14:08] mindset, right? You have a
[02:14:10] [clears throat] business. That's our
[02:14:10] Forbes 30 under 30 and that's the best
[02:14:12] way to look at it.
[02:14:13] >> You recognize that's a very minority
[02:14:16] mindset.
[02:14:18] >> I don't think it is anymore. I mean,
[02:14:19] looking at the staggering rates of
[02:14:20] people and that's why they're now trying
[02:14:21] to pass laws. People are listening. I'm
[02:14:23] telling you, we're going to be
[02:14:24] encouraged. You always have to be
[02:14:26] encouraged.
[02:14:27] by the fight that they're putting up.
[02:14:29] And I'm not I'm not throwing a towel. I
[02:14:30] think I think we're I think we're
[02:14:32] winning and they're scared. That's why
[02:14:33] they're becoming more radical.
[02:14:34] >> That part that part I agree with.
[02:14:36] >> So we say, "Okay, we'll adapt. You say
[02:14:38] our kids can't go to that school. You
[02:14:39] say our kids are going to be put on
[02:14:40] lists. We're going to treat these lists
[02:14:42] as you're highlighting these these
[02:14:43] students, not the actual ones that are,
[02:14:45] you know, radical and beating people up,
[02:14:47] but I'm saying
[02:14:49] >> the ones who are harmless and using
[02:14:50] their right of free speech and getting
[02:14:51] buses outside. I want to hire that kid."
[02:14:53] They're they're they're really Look, I
[02:14:56] totally agree with you. I I have looked
[02:14:59] very carefully. There were beatings
[02:15:02] going on in places like UCLA, but that's
[02:15:06] when UCLA supporters of Israel attacked
[02:15:08] the encampments.
[02:15:11] >> It wasn't the students. You know, a lot
[02:15:13] of the students, they were from abroad.
[02:15:18] They recognize their limits here and
[02:15:21] they recognize
[02:15:23] don't cross certain lines. So I was at
[02:15:28] places like MIT, they were just so
[02:15:30] decent and a lot of the professors,
[02:15:33] you know, the professors wanted they
[02:15:35] were too old to sit in encampments. You
[02:15:37] know, Woodstock is over. [laughter]
[02:15:40] We're heading towards social security.
[02:15:43] Um so they sent food. so much food, you
[02:15:47] know, there was such a festive, warm
[02:15:51] uh feeling there. And then when I hear
[02:15:55] John McGuart, who teaches at Colombia,
[02:15:57] saying, "Oh, the poor Jewish students,
[02:16:00] they had to hear day in and day out
[02:16:01] anti-semitism." What are you talking
[02:16:03] about?
[02:16:05] That never happened. Harvard, a 314page
[02:16:10] report, they said the clearest example
[02:16:13] of anti-semitism, the clearest
[02:16:16] was a student who was trying to uh who
[02:16:18] was at an encampment and got beaten up.
[02:16:20] That's what they write in the report.
[02:16:23] And then if you read in yesterday's New
[02:16:25] York Times,
[02:16:27] you know what actually happened?
[02:16:30] There was an Israeli student
[02:16:32] who came up to the encampment
[02:16:35] and he was photographing it and
[02:16:38] videotaping it. And the folks in the
[02:16:41] encampment got nervous that they were
[02:16:44] going to be, you know, it's the younger
[02:16:46] people's uh uh expression. I don't use
[02:16:49] it, doxing. They were afraid because of
[02:16:52] those trucks going around that he was
[02:16:55] filming them to dox them. We called in
[02:16:58] my day to blacklist them, but your
[02:17:01] generation or was in the younger
[02:17:03] generation call it doxing.
[02:17:05] And so they held up their kafias
[02:17:08] to block him from
[02:17:12] filming. And then there was some moment
[02:17:15] where he might have been tapped.
[02:17:17] >> He might have been tapped. Uh one of the
[02:17:20] demonstrators said on the back of his
[02:17:22] book bag [snorts] and he did not file
[02:17:27] police charges for assault or anything
[02:17:29] like that. He did not. Then his father
[02:17:34] who's the Israeli council in Atlanta,
[02:17:37] he got into the picture and then you see
[02:17:42] how everything is being orchestrated
[02:17:45] >> and that became
[02:17:48] the main piece of evidence. They said he
[02:17:52] was assaulted.
[02:17:53] >> Somebody in the Congress said he was
[02:17:55] pushed to the ground. Never happened.
[02:17:59] And then Bill Aman
[02:18:02] used, exploited, weaponized
[02:18:06] that non-inccident incident to demand a
[02:18:09] Harvard close down the encampments.
[02:18:13] >> Dam it's a it's a propagandist effort
[02:18:15] backed by a a lot of money.
[02:18:17] >> Yes.
[02:18:18] >> Yeah. And by the way, that's exactly
[02:18:19] what happened to that. I think she was
[02:18:20] in Florida. We got to see he's wearing
[02:18:23] an IDF t-shirt. She says like f you to
[02:18:26] him and and I pushed his phone out of
[02:18:28] the face and within hours Pam Bondi
[02:18:32] responded. Wow, that's amazing. I I
[02:18:34] could not know that you could reach the
[02:18:36] upper echelons [laughter] of government.
[02:18:38] Like I'm like oh a federal response to
[02:18:40] oh what a puny little kid. I mean are
[02:18:42] you kidding me? Like you put this up
[02:18:44] there you pretend you're a victim. We
[02:18:46] will not allow people to be You would
[02:18:48] have thought it's hard and feathered
[02:18:50] this kid with the response that it
[02:18:51] received from the
[02:18:53] >> How many times do you push people out of
[02:18:54] your face?
[02:18:55] >> I mean, learn toughen up, kid. It's a
[02:18:57] girl.
[02:18:58] >> But yeah,
[02:18:59] >> I'm not saying it's okay. I'm saying
[02:19:00] what's not okay is that they achieved a
[02:19:02] federal response within hours. It's
[02:19:04] completely ridiculous.
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[02:21:40] I mean, I think we've um I I I do want
[02:21:42] to get to your forthcoming book because
[02:21:44] we we I actually don't have a copy of
[02:21:46] it, but it is coming out and it is
[02:21:48] called Gaza's Gravediggers: An Inquiry
[02:21:50] into Corruption in High Places. Tell me
[02:21:54] what that book is about.
[02:21:56] >> In my opinion, the truth about Gaza is a
[02:21:58] no no.
[02:22:00] There is so much human rights material
[02:22:05] on it. About
[02:22:09] maybe already four months ago,
[02:22:12] um South Africa, which has been
[02:22:15] prosecuting
[02:22:16] the uh the um genocide case, it
[02:22:20] submitted to the International Court of
[02:22:23] Justice
[02:22:24] a 700page
[02:22:28] memorial. [clears throat] That's
[02:22:29] basically your brief with, believe it or
[02:22:31] not, 4,000 pages of documentation.
[02:22:37] >> So, it's
[02:22:39] I I felt when I wrote the Gaza and
[02:22:43] inquest into its martyrdom, nobody knew
[02:22:46] anything about what was going on in
[02:22:47] Gaza. I sat down and I read through all
[02:22:51] the human rights reports, all the
[02:22:54] available information
[02:22:56] and I tried to reconstruct the picture
[02:23:00] of what has happened to that godforsaken
[02:23:03] place. But that's not needed anymore.
[02:23:07] Like you said, most people have a
[02:23:09] general knowledge of it. And then for
[02:23:12] from a scholarly academic point of view,
[02:23:15] there's such a vast amount of
[02:23:16] information available. I didn't feel I
[02:23:19] need to repeat it. I didn't have to do
[02:23:22] what I did with a Gaza book. So instead,
[02:23:25] what I did was I looked at key figures
[02:23:29] in the international institutions,
[02:23:33] people like Primila Patton.
[02:23:37] She was head of what
[02:23:40] uh was called conflict related sexual
[02:23:44] violence. They use the abbreviation
[02:23:46] CRSV, a very clunky
[02:23:50] uh abbreviation.
[02:23:52] And Secretary General Gutierrez
[02:23:56] of the UN Security Council, UN system,
[02:24:00] Secretary General Gutierrez,
[02:24:03] he has her go over to Israel to document
[02:24:07] sexual violence against Israelis on
[02:24:10] October 7.
[02:24:12] And she says, she comes back
[02:24:15] and she says there's clear and
[02:24:18] convincing [clears throat] evidence or
[02:24:20] there is reasonable re reasonable
[02:24:22] grounds to suppose the Hamas committed
[02:24:25] rape on October 7th. And as of course
[02:24:30] you know and your camera people and your
[02:24:32] team know that Israel ran with it. They
[02:24:36] ran with it. The Hamas rapists.
[02:24:41] So you look at the evidence. I look at
[02:24:44] what she has in her report
[02:24:48] and apart from witnesses in quotes,
[02:24:51] Israeli witnesses,
[02:24:54] there is no evidence.
[02:24:56] Now you might say,
[02:24:59] well, it could still have happened
[02:25:01] without witnesses.
[02:25:04] Excuse me. It could still have happened
[02:25:05] without evidence.
[02:25:07] But here's the thing.
[02:25:11] Towards the end of her report, she says
[02:25:15] there's no medical evidence
[02:25:18] of rape.
[02:25:20] There is no forensic evidence of rape.
[02:25:25] And then she has this revealing tidbit,
[02:25:28] and I hope all of your listeners will
[02:25:32] process it.
[02:25:34] She says,
[02:25:36] "We have 5,000
[02:25:39] photographs
[02:25:41] from October 7th." She said, "We looked
[02:25:43] at her team looked at 5,000
[02:25:45] photographs."
[02:25:47] She said, "We looked at 50 hours of
[02:25:52] digital footage."
[02:25:54] That's not a small amount.
[02:25:56] >> 50 hours of v digital footage. They
[02:26:00] said, "We looked at CCTV.
[02:26:04] We looked at traffic cams. We looked at
[02:26:08] body cams. We looked at dash cams."
[02:26:13] Okay.
[02:26:15] Now, she says, "Not me,
[02:26:20] not you." Primila Patton says,
[02:26:24] "We saw no photographic or digital
[02:26:29] evidence of sexual violence." She didn't
[02:26:32] even limit it to rape. She said we saw
[02:26:36] no
[02:26:38] direct
[02:26:40] photographic or digital violence,
[02:26:43] digital evidence of rape.
[02:26:47] But
[02:26:49] did that stop her from concluding?
[02:26:52] We have reasonable evidence. We have
[02:26:56] clear and convincing evidence.
[02:26:58] There was no evidence.
[02:27:00] >> It was money.
[02:27:02] >> It was what her whether it was money. I
[02:27:05] can I I honestly can't say in her
[02:27:08] particular
[02:27:08] >> that's a guess for me that usually when
[02:27:10] somebody comes to a conclusion like that
[02:27:12] >> I kind of
[02:27:13] >> there's a fellowship. There's just
[02:27:15] something there that you'll find. But
[02:27:17] I'm I'm not disputing that. I say as a
[02:27:19] factual thing I can prove it. Okay.
[02:27:23] >> I'm not saying it's not true what you
[02:27:25] said.
[02:27:25] >> I'm guessing and I don't know it's true.
[02:27:27] Yeah.
[02:27:27] >> Yeah.
[02:27:28] >> But then as you know, Israel ran with
[02:27:31] it. And you know why they ran with it?
[02:27:34] Israelis did not need the incentive of
[02:27:36] rape to commit genocide in Gaza. They
[02:27:40] ran it with it for here
[02:27:43] because of our own history. They knew it
[02:27:46] would resonate here
[02:27:49] because of the our own history of
[02:27:52] slavery and the lynchings and so forth.
[02:27:54] >> That's was also behind the babies were
[02:27:57] put in ovens which got debunked. It's
[02:27:59] the idea here is actually what you're
[02:28:00] trying to exploit is Jewish American
[02:28:03] emotion when you hear the concept of
[02:28:05] ovens at all. And so that's that's very
[02:28:10] and he did get caught by the way that he
[02:28:12] did specifically share and this was a
[02:28:14] part of the you know the BB trials which
[02:28:16] are now I I don't know what the update
[02:28:18] on that is but that he a team of
[02:28:20] propagandists moved to spread lies to
[02:28:23] the western public so that it's this
[02:28:25] exactly
[02:28:26] >> and and
[02:28:28] it got weaponized here
[02:28:32] and then another
[02:28:35] Jewish supremacist ist billionaire.
[02:28:39] This was Cheryl Sandberg,
[02:28:41] >> the former COO, chief operating officer
[02:28:46] of Meta.
[02:28:48] She makes a documentary called Screams
[02:28:52] Before Silence.
[02:28:54] Now, Cheryl Sandberg has a factual
[02:28:58] manner. Do you know her? [snorts]
[02:28:59] >> I don't know her.
[02:29:00] >> Oh, I'm surprised.
[02:29:01] >> She's very smart. I know who she is, but
[02:29:03] I know what she wrote her book and you
[02:29:05] know, never got women lean in.
[02:29:07] >> Yeah,
[02:29:07] >> she was the top student in her class in
[02:29:11] uh economics at Harvard. She's no fool.
[02:29:16] She knows she knows evidence.
[02:29:19] There was
[02:29:21] by their own admission
[02:29:24] there was no evidence. There was no
[02:29:26] material evidence of rape. There was
[02:29:27] not. In fact, I think the evidence, it's
[02:29:31] not just an absence of evidence.
[02:29:35] The fact that there's no photographic or
[02:29:38] digital evidence, none. Now, if it were
[02:29:41] the case, there were only three
[02:29:42] pictures.
[02:29:45] But 5,000?
[02:29:47] Now, Candace, I don't know how old you
[02:29:49] are, but obviously you're several
[02:29:51] generations younger than myself.
[02:29:55] They said that the rapes, Israel said
[02:29:57] that the rapes occurred in public, broad
[02:30:02] public space.
[02:30:04] Okay? And they said the witnesses
[02:30:09] were in hiding
[02:30:12] as they observed these gang rapes.
[02:30:16] they said.
[02:30:18] Now, I I'm not of the younger
[02:30:21] generation, but I certainly observe the
[02:30:24] younger generation. [clears throat]
[02:30:26] You know, they they take pictures of
[02:30:29] everything, everything they photograph.
[02:30:32] You're walking along the street, you see
[02:30:34] a dead pigeon, out comes the iPhone. You
[02:30:37] see a bee in the air, out comes the
[02:30:39] iPhone.
[02:30:40] You're telling me not one of these
[02:30:43] witnesses thought to photograph a gang
[02:30:46] rape?
[02:30:48] They say they're in the safety of a
[02:30:49] hiding place. None. So, I think rather
[02:30:54] than cast it as no evidence of rape, I
[02:30:59] think it should be cast as overwhelming
[02:31:03] evidence that there was no rape. But
[02:31:06] that doesn't stop
[02:31:09] the top student in her year in the
[02:31:12] Harvard economics department
[02:31:15] from
[02:31:17] making a documentary
[02:31:19] claiming there was mass rape
[02:31:22] on October 7th by Hamas.
[02:31:25] Why does she do it? It's very simple why
[02:31:29] she does it.
[02:31:31] There are the little facts
[02:31:35] like the ones we just spoke of, the
[02:31:37] pictures, the absence of medical
[02:31:39] evidence, absence of forensic evidence,
[02:31:42] there are the little facts and then
[02:31:47] as you well know
[02:31:49] there is the cause.
[02:31:52] >> Mhm. There's the cause.
[02:31:55] And
[02:31:56] all the
[02:32:00] uncomfortable little facts like there's
[02:32:02] no evidence,
[02:32:05] they pale in comparison to the cause.
[02:32:11] The cause is
[02:32:16] Israel must live.
[02:32:19] They're they're complete
[02:32:22] supremacists.
[02:32:24] >> Now, I am not going to quarrel
[02:32:29] with your deepseed belief. I will not
[02:32:32] quarrel with it. Israel must live. If
[02:32:36] that's your belief, I won't quarrel with
[02:32:39] it. But it's as if a German
[02:32:44] during World War II
[02:32:48] were making propaganda films
[02:32:52] on the pretense
[02:32:54] and they did. They made films saying the
[02:32:56] concentration camps were in bad. They
[02:32:58] went into some of them. They had this
[02:33:00] news rail footage made it look like a
[02:33:02] summer home. You know,
[02:33:06] the issue now
[02:33:09] or I should say the issue then during
[02:33:13] World War II is not whether Germany
[02:33:18] should live
[02:33:21] at that point. The issue was
[02:33:25] the mass extermination
[02:33:28] of people. Nobody was denying Germany's
[02:33:32] right to live.
[02:33:35] What they were denying was
[02:33:38] Germany's
[02:33:40] uh execution
[02:33:42] of a genocide.
[02:33:45] And it's the same thing now. You could
[02:33:48] say
[02:33:50] israel
[02:33:51] must live or Israel will live to the end
[02:33:54] of time. Fine. you could say it and I
[02:33:58] grant you your belief. I don't happen to
[02:34:00] agree with it, but I
[02:34:03] uh I'm not going to deny you that. I can
[02:34:07] understand that sentiment.
[02:34:10] But when that sentiment
[02:34:14] in the midst of what's happening in Gaza
[02:34:20] now,
[02:34:22] uh, and
[02:34:27] that part of it
[02:34:29] is, it's not just morally unacceptable.
[02:34:33] You're just a propagandist for genocide.
[02:34:37] She's no different. And I'll say it. and
[02:34:39] Miss Sandberg
[02:34:41] and I'm not going to deny you your
[02:34:43] achievements and your accomplishments.
[02:34:48] I will not I recognize it's hard work
[02:34:51] and she was not she wasn't born rich.
[02:34:54] She was I know I've heard people who
[02:34:56] know her she was a hard worker. It's not
[02:34:58] Barry Weiss. No, it's not.
[02:35:02] Um, so I'm not going to
[02:35:06] deny you
[02:35:08] your achievements, but you're no
[02:35:11] different than Lenny Reefento
[02:35:14] that was the famous film propagandist
[02:35:18] for Hitler. She wrote a she did a very
[02:35:21] famous she was happened to be very
[02:35:22] gifted in film. She used it for the
[02:35:25] wrong purpose. uh she had made a famous
[02:35:28] film called Triumph of the Will uh
[02:35:31] glorifying Hitler.
[02:35:33] You're no different. Okay, you're not on
[02:35:35] the scale
[02:35:37] of Lenny Reef and Snow,
[02:35:40] but you're a propagandist.
[02:35:43] This is not about let Israel live. The
[02:35:48] issue is
[02:35:50] let Palestine live.
[02:35:53] That's the issue right now.
[02:35:56] and uh you've just you have self
[02:36:01] recruited yourself as a propagandist
[02:36:06] for a genocide. And by the way, Miss
[02:36:08] Samberg,
[02:36:10] that's just not my opinion.
[02:36:14] It's as the most recent Washington poll
[02:36:19] showed, 40% of American Jews
[02:36:23] believe it's a genocide. You have
[02:36:27] self
[02:36:29] recruited yourself as a propagandist for
[02:36:33] genocide
[02:36:34] as does
[02:36:37] as does Mr. Van Jones. That's your
[02:36:42] that's your
[02:36:44] job title as of now.
[02:36:48] You know, it it's something that I want
[02:36:50] to reiterate as as we close here and and
[02:36:52] I want to basically direct people where
[02:36:54] they can find your book, but I have said
[02:36:56] this over and over again, and I think
[02:36:58] it's starting to register with people.
[02:37:00] If you side with evil, you should
[02:37:02] remember that evil is always an orphan.
[02:37:05] If you are finding someone that feels
[02:37:06] nothing when they kill a child, you are
[02:37:08] dealing with somebody that has a
[02:37:10] capacity for evil, that you mean
[02:37:12] nothing. They will they won't even
[02:37:14] flinch if they have to kill you, too.
[02:37:16] And this is something that I I I have
[02:37:18] really uh taken the time to explain to
[02:37:20] people like if if you will and that
[02:37:22] includes you Jewish Americans, right?
[02:37:24] When we're speaking about BB and Yahoo
[02:37:26] um and people with that capacity for
[02:37:28] evil, there is nothing to those
[02:37:30] individuals but themselves. And you have
[02:37:33] to be very careful when you're allying
[02:37:34] with evil to realize that it will it
[02:37:36] will snap in two seconds and take you
[02:37:37] out. Evil's always an orphan. Um
[02:37:40] >> I would just comment on that. You know,
[02:37:43] I think it cuts both ways. One of the
[02:37:46] questions that's always been asked is,
[02:37:50] is it possible for a person to be evil,
[02:37:54] a mass murderer
[02:37:56] in so to speak, one compartment of his
[02:37:58] or her life, and then be just a very
[02:38:02] Okay.
[02:38:03] >> Absolutely not.
[02:38:03] >> I I I agree. It's an open question, but
[02:38:07] if you ever have time,
[02:38:09] one film which very much struck me,
[02:38:12] nobody's ever heard of it. Uh, you
[02:38:15] should watch it. It's called The Music
[02:38:17] Box and it's about a young woman, a
[02:38:22] lawyer. She lives in she lives in
[02:38:25] Chicago.
[02:38:27] Her father sacrificed everything in his
[02:38:30] life
[02:38:31] so she can get through law school.
[02:38:34] >> Okay.
[02:38:36] And
[02:38:37] the film begins, she loves her father to
[02:38:41] death. The father loves her to death.
[02:38:45] Okay.
[02:38:47] Who was a wonderful father to her.
[02:38:50] And the film begins with the US
[02:38:53] government presenting her father with
[02:38:56] papers
[02:38:58] that he was a mass murderer during World
[02:39:00] War II in Hungary.
[02:39:03] >> Okay.
[02:39:04] her father
[02:39:07] asks her to defend him.
[02:39:11] I don't want to give away the ending cuz
[02:39:13] some people may watch it. The music box,
[02:39:15] >> but it explores that theme
[02:39:18] >> and you will be I think you will be
[02:39:21] touched and moved
[02:39:22] >> by how that whole story unfolds
[02:39:26] whether you can be a monster
[02:39:30] in one compartment of your life
[02:39:33] and a loving family member in the other.
[02:39:36] Now, I'm not saying you're wrong
[02:39:39] because I think it is a complicated
[02:39:40] question,
[02:39:42] >> but it's worth pondering.
[02:39:44] >> Yeah, it definitely is worth pondering.
[02:39:46] Uh, and so I I want to point them in the
[02:39:48] direction by the way, where can they get
[02:39:50] your forthcoming book? Is that out now?
[02:39:53] >> No, it'll be out hopefully in January.
[02:39:55] >> So, in the interim, you guys, if you all
[02:39:57] of these topics that we covered today
[02:39:58] are really important. So, the Holocaust
[02:40:00] industry, we all know what's happening.
[02:40:02] Finally, we were at a circumstance uh
[02:40:04] where the people uh can go backwards and
[02:40:06] understand more about how that happened.
[02:40:08] Also, Gaza, an inquest into its
[02:40:10] martyrdom. If you are just starting to
[02:40:11] realize something is very wrong and you
[02:40:14] need to independently educate yourself,
[02:40:16] that is a good place to start. And
[02:40:18] lastly, I'll burn that bridge when I get
[02:40:22] to it. And these are his heretical
[02:40:24] thoughts on identity politics, cancel
[02:40:25] culture, and academic freedom. I'm sure
[02:40:27] some of this he and I disagree on and
[02:40:30] agree on, but uh but what I will say is
[02:40:32] that one of my favorite things is that
[02:40:34] this issue is bringing people together
[02:40:36] from other sides and that that needs to
[02:40:39] happen. We need to start allying
[02:40:41] ourselves and recognize whether you view
[02:40:42] yourself on the left or the right,
[02:40:44] doesn't matter. Do you follow goodness
[02:40:46] or do you follow evil at your core? Um
[02:40:49] anything that you would like to add
[02:40:50] before we get you out of here? No, I
[02:40:53] want to say
[02:40:56] first of all when I was first on your
[02:40:58] program, which is about two years ago
[02:41:01] now,
[02:41:03] I appreciated the fact that you
[02:41:05] listened.
[02:41:06] You listened
[02:41:08] >> and uh I was on with Jordan Peterson's
[02:41:11] daughter. I forgot her name.
[02:41:13] >> Peterson. Yeah.
[02:41:15] >> And she listened.
[02:41:17] >> You don't have to agree with me. And
[02:41:19] there are many things I said today we
[02:41:20] didn't agree on.
[02:41:23] But I respect the fact that you were a
[02:41:27] good listener.
[02:41:29] And I would also say that if you
[02:41:31] disagree with me,
[02:41:34] Mr. Shapiro, Ben Shapiro,
[02:41:37] Sam Harris,
[02:41:40] Van Jones.
[02:41:43] If you disagree with me,
[02:41:45] stop trying to not in the case of Van
[02:41:48] Jones, but the others,
[02:41:52] come up and just talk about it. Try to
[02:41:55] be Candy Sens. Listen, and then you can
[02:41:59] respond just like she did. What's the
[02:42:01] fear?
[02:42:03] Why are you so afraid? You've received
[02:42:06] countless requests to debate me and each
[02:42:11] and every one of them you've turned
[02:42:13] down. I sent a list, a very long list to
[02:42:17] Piers Morgan
[02:42:19] of people. They say, "Who would you like
[02:42:21] to debate?"
[02:42:23] And
[02:42:25] all of them turned it down. I put Ben
[02:42:27] Shapiro on the list.
[02:42:30] I put Sam Harris on the list. I would be
[02:42:36] happy to debate Bill Maher.
[02:42:40] Even though I believe he's a I'd
[02:42:43] be happy to debate him. Defend yourself.
[02:42:47] So,
[02:42:48] I believe you should have the courage of
[02:42:51] your convictions.
[02:42:54] Miss Sandberg, let's debate it. Let's
[02:42:57] debate what happened on October 7th and
[02:42:59] whether there's any material evidence of
[02:43:03] right. Any material evidence of right.
[02:43:06] Let's look. Let's examine it. And I'm
[02:43:09] appreciative
[02:43:11] even though we come from very different
[02:43:14] corners of the political universe
[02:43:17] that you gave me the time. And I
[02:43:21] remember somebody once said to me
[02:43:24] uh she's a senior historian of Nazi
[02:43:28] Holocaust.
[02:43:29] He says in judging a person
[02:43:35] character
[02:43:37] is much more significance than ideology.
[02:43:41] You can have nasty people across the
[02:43:44] political spectrum.
[02:43:46] character is a much better indicator of
[02:43:50] a person than his or her ideology.
[02:43:54] And I discovered that with Raul
[02:43:56] Hillberg,
[02:43:59] ideologically
[02:44:00] polar ends of the spectrum.
[02:44:03] But the guy, he came out slugging for
[02:44:05] me. And that was a real, it was an
[02:44:09] epiphany for me. And I I'm grateful that
[02:44:14] you gave me the time as well.
[02:44:16] >> And I'm I'm grateful that we were able
[02:44:18] to do this in person. And I think
[02:44:20] there's going to be so many people who
[02:44:21] challenge themselves and uh make sure
[02:44:23] that they have the courage of their own
[02:44:25] convictions. So you guys, so much to
[02:44:27] learn, so much to process, all of us
[02:44:29] just trying to make sure we know what we
[02:44:32] are saying and that the facts are on our
[02:44:33] side. So thank you for joining us in
[02:44:35] this discussion. We'll see you next
[02:44:37] time.
[02:44:38] [music]
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