Untitled Document

[00:00:00] Joining me now to discuss this and much [00:00:03] more, South Carolina Senator Lindsey [00:00:05] Graham. He serves on four Senate [00:00:06] committees, including the chairman of [00:00:08] the Senate Budget Committee. Senator [00:00:10] Graham, welcome back to This Week on [00:00:11] Capitol Hill. Always great to see you. [00:00:13] >> Thank you. Thank you so much. [00:00:15] >> All right. So, your thoughts on how the [00:00:18] peace deal or the ceasefire is holding [00:00:21] up between Israel and Hamas? [00:00:23] >> I'm not real sure. I'm very suspicious [00:00:25] that Hamas will ever lay down their [00:00:27] weapons. that will ever abandon their [00:00:29] desire to destroy the state of Israel. [00:00:31] Their charter as an organization is to [00:00:34] drive Israel into the sea. I think [00:00:36] they're Nazis, religious Nazis. Uh I [00:00:39] think it'd be like doing a deal with the [00:00:40] SS. So I would not advise Israel to do [00:00:44] anything until Hamas is disarmed. Uh [00:00:47] there is no phase two or three until [00:00:49] Hamas has been destroyed uh politically [00:00:52] and militarily, hopefully through [00:00:54] disarmament. But the last thing we need [00:00:56] in Gaza is a unifil group, some kind of [00:00:59] stabilizing force that doesn't have the [00:01:01] capability or will to ride herd over [00:01:04] Hamas. What have we seen after the [00:01:06] ceasefire? Hamas coming back into the [00:01:09] streets, shooting people in the back of [00:01:11] the head, and the world says nothing. [00:01:13] The only time the world's upset is when [00:01:15] Israel and trying to defend itself kills [00:01:18] a Palestinian. Apparently, it's okay for [00:01:20] Hamas to execute people in the streets [00:01:22] without much push back. So, I'm very [00:01:25] concerned about where this thing is [00:01:27] headed. And my advice to Israel is to [00:01:30] make sure that there's a stabilizing [00:01:32] force that you can trust that has the [00:01:34] will and the capability to disarm Hamas. [00:01:37] And if you can't get that, uh, then you [00:01:40] need to finish the job yourself. Well, [00:01:42] let's let me ask you about that [00:01:43] stabilizing force because there's been [00:01:46] discussion about this international [00:01:48] force including Qatar and Turkey to [00:01:51] which the prime minister of Israel has [00:01:53] expressed opposition to the idea of [00:01:55] Turkey being there on on their own soil. [00:01:58] >> Yeah, I think that's not going to go [00:01:59] over well in Israel. It's not just BB. [00:02:02] What people don't realize, you you you [00:02:04] know Israel as well as anybody in the [00:02:06] media. Laid the opposition leader to BB [00:02:11] kind of a center-left guy spoke to the [00:02:14] Knesset and said he would oppose Turkey [00:02:16] or Qara being part of any force in Gaza. [00:02:19] That's not just BB. People in Israel see [00:02:22] Turkey and Qar as more aligned with the [00:02:25] Muslim Brotherhood. Whether that's right [00:02:26] or not, everybody sees it that way. So [00:02:29] my hope is that we can find a [00:02:32] stabilizing force that will disarm [00:02:35] um Hamas. Without disarmament, there [00:02:38] will never be peace and stability. But [00:02:41] uh Turkey and Qar is rejected not just [00:02:45] by BB but by his opposition [00:02:49] who said they would tolerate Egypt but [00:02:51] not these others. [00:02:53] >> Senator Lindsey Graham, let me ask you [00:02:55] this question. When we talk about peace [00:02:57] in the Middle East, is it a different [00:02:59] definition of peace than what we are [00:03:01] accustomed to here in the West? Because [00:03:03] I mean, consider this. Since Israel's [00:03:05] founding, there's been 20 conflicts [00:03:08] either between Hamas or Palestinians in [00:03:11] Judea and Samaria, [00:03:13] >> right? So, let me just say this. Um, [00:03:16] the state of Israel was founded in 1948, [00:03:19] right? It's been under siege ever since. [00:03:22] God blesses those who bless Israel. Uh, [00:03:25] I'm in the camp that Israel will have no [00:03:27] better ally than Lindsey Graham. But I'm [00:03:29] also an American and I want to do what's [00:03:32] best for America visav Israel. What's [00:03:35] best for Israel is for it to be an [00:03:36] independent Jewish state, [00:03:39] a Jewish state that's sovereign, that's [00:03:41] democratic, [00:03:43] uh, that can live in peace with its [00:03:44] neighbors. Right now, Hamas is not a [00:03:48] neighbor you can live in peace with. [00:03:50] Hezbollah is an Iranian Iranian proxy [00:03:53] Shiite terrorist group in Lebanon that [00:03:56] has tried to destroy Israel for decades. [00:03:59] Iran is the great Satan in the region. [00:04:02] So peace for me when it comes to Israel [00:04:06] is the destruction of proxies of Iran [00:04:10] that can destroy the Jewish state. Peace [00:04:13] for me, for Israel is the international [00:04:16] community, the IC and the UN stopping [00:04:20] their policies to try to marginalize [00:04:23] Israel. There's a international court of [00:04:26] justice just ruled that Israel must [00:04:29] allow UN aid to come into Gaza. UNRA, [00:04:33] remember UNRA, the United Nations [00:04:35] Recovery Assistance Authority Aid Group. [00:04:39] UNRA was integrated with Hamas. [00:04:43] UNRA hired people sympathetic to Hamas. [00:04:47] So I will never allow with my vote any [00:04:51] use of ENRA assets to rebuild Gaza [00:04:55] because ENRA to me is an extension of [00:04:57] terrorism, not a fair arbitrator of aid [00:05:02] delivery. [00:05:03] >> Senator, you talk about the [00:05:04] international community uh you know [00:05:06] rhetoric in flames as well. the [00:05:09] terminology that has been used uh West [00:05:12] Bank giving the impression that you know [00:05:15] what amounts to about 24% of the land [00:05:17] mass of Israel Judea and Samaria is [00:05:21] somehow a sliver of land along the bank [00:05:23] of the Jordan River. Talking about [00:05:25] sovereignty this week the Knesset uh [00:05:29] voted on a measure that took a step [00:05:31] toward recognizing the sovereignty over [00:05:34] certain elements of Judea and Samaria. [00:05:37] the vice president, secretary of state [00:05:39] both spoke out against that. Does Israel [00:05:41] not have a right to exercise sovereignty [00:05:43] over their land? In fact, this is land [00:05:45] in which according to this 20point peace [00:05:47] plan, 2,000 terrorists were deposited [00:05:52] into this region in Ramallah. [00:05:54] >> Yeah. So, I'll just be very honest with [00:05:56] you. Uh it's been the policy of the [00:05:58] United States for decades now, starting [00:06:01] with President Bush, a two-state [00:06:03] solution. After [clears throat] October [00:06:04] 7th, the Palestinian state, Palestinian [00:06:08] emirate, whatever you want to call it, [00:06:10] will be radically different. There will [00:06:11] be security buffers provided to Israel [00:06:13] to make sure there's no more October the [00:06:15] 7th. But to you and to your listeners, [00:06:18] um it will not change. The policy will [00:06:20] not change under Trump. We're not going [00:06:23] to support annexation of the West Bank. [00:06:26] Why? Because that would destroy any [00:06:29] ability of Israel to live in peace in [00:06:32] the region. It would create turmoil [00:06:34] beyond your imagination and would [00:06:37] isolate Israel even further. I'm not [00:06:40] expecting Israel to do any deal with the [00:06:43] Palestinians that would lead to another [00:06:45] October 7th, but I don't want to mislead [00:06:47] anybody that I think that the world or [00:06:50] the United States will accept [00:06:51] annexation. It will not. [00:06:54] >> All right. I want to move on to another [00:06:56] topic on international news, something [00:06:58] that you've been working on very [00:07:00] closely. That is the issue of Ukraine [00:07:02] and Russia. The president, we only have [00:07:04] about 30 seconds left and we'll go into [00:07:06] the next segment, but I want to set this [00:07:08] up. The president taking basically a [00:07:10] page from uh your playbook calling for [00:07:14] sanctions on Russian oil to bring this [00:07:18] to a close using economic tools. You got [00:07:20] 30 seconds and we'll continue this on. [00:07:23] >> He's on the right track, but you can't [00:07:25] let your foot off the gas. We got to [00:07:27] stay firm and not not back away now. We [00:07:30] just got to be consistent. Putin doesn't [00:07:31] want peace. He wants land. He wants land [00:07:34] by force. [00:07:35] >> All right, folks. We're going to [00:07:36] continue our conversation with Senator [00:07:38] Lindsey Graham on the other side of this [00:07:40] break to discuss the way forward in [00:07:43] bringing peace between Russia and [00:07:45] Ukraine. [00:07:47] Continuing my conversation with South [00:07:49] Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham. Senator [00:07:52] Graham, you've been advocating for this [00:07:53] for quite some time to use economic [00:07:57] tools to squeeze the Russian war [00:08:00] machine. They're fueling this war with [00:08:03] oil that Europe and others are buying. [00:08:07] You [00:08:07] >> know, I wish every show was like this [00:08:09] where we could actually talk about what [00:08:10] I believe. Um, yeah, I don't want to [00:08:13] send any American ground forces to [00:08:15] Ukraine. I don't want us to get sucked [00:08:17] into this war, but I don't want Putin to [00:08:19] be able to take Ukraine by force of arms [00:08:22] because China is watching. And there [00:08:24] goes Taiwan. One thing leads to the [00:08:26] other. Uh in in the mid '90s, Ukraine [00:08:29] gave up 1,700 nuclear weapons when it [00:08:32] was part of the Soviet Union after the [00:08:34] collapse of the Soviet Union with a [00:08:36] promise by Russia, Britain, and the [00:08:38] United States their sovereignty would be [00:08:40] honored if they turned over the weapons [00:08:42] in Ukraine to Russia. Putin has violated [00:08:45] every agreement. He's invaded twice on [00:08:48] Obama's watch and Biden's watch, but not [00:08:51] on Trump's watch. So, it's very [00:08:53] important to everybody listening out [00:08:55] there that Putin not be allowed to [00:08:57] dismember Ukraine by force of arms [00:09:00] because that sets in motion a lot of bad [00:09:01] things. And the occupied territories [00:09:04] where Russia occupies Ukraine. They're [00:09:06] destroying uh the Orthodox faith of [00:09:09] Ukraine. They're very antagonistic to [00:09:13] Ukrainian Christians. And you've said [00:09:15] that more than anybody. So what am I [00:09:17] looking for? I'm looking for the end of [00:09:19] the war in a way to prevent a third [00:09:21] invasion. That we make sure that if [00:09:24] Putin tries this again, he will be [00:09:26] running into a larger force than just [00:09:28] Ukraine. I don't think he can kick every [00:09:30] Russian soldier out of Ukraine. There [00:09:32] will be some deal. But what I want [00:09:34] President Trump to do is to apply [00:09:36] economic pressure to his war machine. [00:09:39] Without oil and gas revenues, the [00:09:41] economy comes to a grinding halt in [00:09:43] Russia. Go after the customers. He's [00:09:46] going to meet China here pretty soon. [00:09:47] She Putin uh Trump is tell she from [00:09:52] China, stop buying Russian oil. You're [00:09:54] the number one purchaser of Russian oil. [00:09:56] It's below market. It's cheap. The money [00:09:58] is used by Putin to fuel his war [00:10:01] machine. If China, India, and Brazil [00:10:03] would stop buying Russian oil, Putin [00:10:06] would have no money to prosecute the [00:10:07] war. President Trump put tariffs [00:10:10] yesterday on two of the largest Russian [00:10:11] oil companies. That's a step in the [00:10:13] right direction. What is the goal, Tony? [00:10:16] A ceasefire in place at the line of [00:10:18] contact. Ukraine has said yes. Russia [00:10:21] has said no. If I were President Trump, [00:10:24] I wouldn't have any discussions with [00:10:26] Russia until they come to the table with [00:10:28] a ceasefire in place. [00:10:30] >> Does that include supporting Ukraine [00:10:33] with tomahawk missiles? [00:10:35] >> It would for me. Now, that's an a very [00:10:37] complicated delivery system. How do you [00:10:40] end this war? You make the cost of [00:10:42] prosecuting the war untenable for Putin. [00:10:45] The more lethal Ukraine, the more they [00:10:48] can hit the refineries, the missile [00:10:49] factories, the drone factories, the less [00:10:52] capable the uh Russian military is uh to [00:10:56] destroy Ukraine and to kill innocent [00:10:58] Ukrainians. If America and Europe band [00:11:01] together and start punishing [00:11:04] Russian oil companies and punishing [00:11:06] people who buy cheap Russian oil like [00:11:09] China, India and Brazil, then I think [00:11:11] the strangulation of the income coming [00:11:14] from oil and gas uh would drive him to [00:11:16] the table. My goal is to end the war, [00:11:19] end the bloodbath honorably and justly, [00:11:21] not to humiliate Putin. I am with [00:11:23] President Trump. President Trump, you've [00:11:26] made the right decision to impose [00:11:28] sanctions. Don't back off. No more phone [00:11:31] calls with Putin where he says one thing [00:11:33] and does another. The only thing I'm [00:11:35] watching and waiting for from Putin is [00:11:37] to agree to a ceasefire like Ukraine [00:11:39] has. [00:11:40] >> Uh, Senator, we just have less than two [00:11:42] minutes left. Are you concerned about [00:11:46] Russian President Vladimir Putin being [00:11:49] forced into a corner internationally and [00:11:52] how he might respond given the [00:11:55] >> nuclear capabilities they have? [00:11:58] >> Yeah. And I've said publicly if there's [00:11:59] a tactical nuclear weapon exploded as [00:12:02] part of the Ukraine conflict, if Russia [00:12:04] decided to use a tactical nuclear [00:12:06] device, I would consider that an attack [00:12:08] on NATO because radiation would flow all [00:12:12] over Europe. So if he tried to do that, [00:12:14] then he would be attacking NATO and he'd [00:12:16] be at war with NATO. I don't think he's [00:12:18] going to do that. Don't let him bluff [00:12:20] you out of doing what's necessary to end [00:12:22] this war. Biden was late to give the [00:12:24] F-16. Biden didn't want to offend Putin. [00:12:27] He didn't give him tanks. He didn't give [00:12:28] them any weapons at all. Look what [00:12:30] Trump's done. He's loaded them up with [00:12:32] weapons. So, you're not going to let the [00:12:34] bully, you'll never win the bully over [00:12:36] being afraid of him, [00:12:37] >> right? [00:12:38] >> You got to be smart, but you got to be [00:12:40] tough. And let's end on this note. To my [00:12:43] friends in Israel, do not accept [00:12:46] a holding force in Gaza that you do not [00:12:49] trust to disarm Hamas. And to my friends [00:12:52] in Israel, if you feel like the only way [00:12:54] to make the Jewish state safe is to go [00:12:56] back into Gaza and finish Hamas off, you [00:12:59] have my blessing. [00:13:01] >> Well, we'll make sure that message gets [00:13:02] there. Senator Lindsey Graham, always [00:13:04] great to see you. Thanks so much for [00:13:06] taking time to to join us. [00:13:08] >> Thank you. God bless.