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[00:00:00] And you mentioned that the Biden [00:00:01] administration could have struck this [00:00:03] deal at any moment when he was [00:00:05] president. And we just had Camala Harris [00:00:07] tweet out so proudly like she was [00:00:09] bragging that, you know, Trump shouldn't [00:00:12] really get all the credit for making [00:00:14] this so-called peace plan. It was really [00:00:16] her and Biden that brought most of the [00:00:18] peace to Gaza. What are your thoughts on [00:00:20] that? [00:00:23] I mean, uh, to me, the most interesting [00:00:25] aspect of the Democrats, like the Biden [00:00:28] camp, is that their, um, cowardice [00:00:33] on the issue of Israel Palestine and [00:00:35] their just refusal to take on the Israel [00:00:38] lobby and to adopt like any minimal [00:00:41] recognition of Palestinian rights, like [00:00:43] that subservience to Israel, it [00:00:46] supersedes even their desire for power, [00:00:49] like to be in office because if KL [00:00:51] Everyone knows this. If Kell had just [00:00:54] even slightly distanced herself from [00:00:56] Biden on the issue of the Gaza genocide, [00:00:59] she would have radically improved her [00:01:01] chances of winning. Radically. And it [00:01:03] was such an easy political thing to do. [00:01:05] I mean, forget morals for a second cuz [00:01:07] we can't expect politicians to have [00:01:08] that. But just thinking like [00:01:10] strategically from like the idea of like [00:01:11] a coldblooded Washington beltway [00:01:14] pragmatist, you have polls showing that [00:01:17] the Democratic base is like revolted by [00:01:21] Biden's policy on Gaza and all they want [00:01:24] is for some like minimal break from Kl [00:01:27] Harris. Even just even if it wasn't even [00:01:29] sincere, just saying it, right? But she [00:01:32] wouldn't do it. And why? Because I guess [00:01:34] like the hatred of Palestinians, their [00:01:36] dehumanization, and like the veneration [00:01:39] of Israel as our ally and blah blah [00:01:41] blah, it's so embedded in US [00:01:43] establishment culture that even someone [00:01:46] um trying to win the presidency was not [00:01:50] willing to break from Israel and and and [00:01:52] break from Biden's slavish support for [00:01:55] Israel. So, it just speaks to the [00:01:56] absolute anti-Palestinian fanaticism we [00:01:58] have embedded into our political culture [00:02:00] where people would rather serve Israel [00:02:01] than even win an election. It it's [00:02:03] really unbelievable. Uh and it speaks to [00:02:06] just years and years of propaganda and [00:02:08] the power that the Israel lobby has, not [00:02:11] just in Washington, but in all aspects [00:02:12] of society. Because say you're Kla [00:02:14] Harris and like you're thinking about [00:02:16] your post uh um politics career, you [00:02:19] know, because these people get book [00:02:21] deals and speaking tours, you know, Kla [00:02:23] Harris probably knows subconsciously [00:02:24] that if she speaks out for Palestine in [00:02:26] some like just prefuncter way, like the [00:02:29] most like minimal like letting a [00:02:31] Palestinian speaker who wants to endorse [00:02:33] her to speak at the DNC convention, she [00:02:36] might be thinking about, well, if I do [00:02:37] that, I might not get a lucrative [00:02:38] speaking gig or a book deal. You know, [00:02:40] these things have an impact on these [00:02:42] people who aren't just thinking about [00:02:43] politics or thinking about their [00:02:45] position of power within the US [00:02:47] establishment. And so, they'd rather [00:02:50] sell out their own political chances [00:02:53] than uh acknowledge Palestinian [00:02:56] suffering and do something a little [00:02:57] differently than what Biden did. And [00:02:59] instead, you know, we got people like [00:03:00] AOC uh going up and saying that Kla [00:03:03] Harris is working tirelessly for a [00:03:05] ceasefire, even though it wasn't true. [00:03:07] And she could have lied and said Kla [00:03:09] Harris will work tirelessly for a [00:03:10] ceasefire, which again wouldn't be a [00:03:12] lie. But at least it wouldn't be [00:03:13] demonstrabably false because that would [00:03:15] be aspirational sometime in the future. [00:03:17] But they insulted all of us and they [00:03:19] made it impossible to vote for them. And [00:03:21] I say this, I mean, listen, I'm in the [00:03:22] minority, I think, in my camp when it [00:03:26] comes to like, you know, like media [00:03:27] circles. I actually believe in lesser [00:03:29] evil voting. Um, I'd rather have a [00:03:31] president that doesn't cut Medicaid for [00:03:33] low-income people uh and uh give even [00:03:37] bigger tax breaks to the ultra wealthy. [00:03:39] But Democrats made it absolutely [00:03:42] impossible to uh adopt a lesser evil [00:03:45] strategy because they actually showed on [00:03:48] the issue on the issue of the Gaza [00:03:49] genocide that they were the bigger evil [00:03:51] given that they let the genocide go on [00:03:53] for uh as long as they did. They refused [00:03:56] to stop it and they seated that lane to [00:03:57] Trump who finally ended it. They [00:03:59] basically set it all up for Trump to [00:04:00] continue the genocide with no doubt. [00:04:03] >> Yes, they did. [00:04:03] >> So, in the last 24 hours, dozens of [00:04:06] world leaders have met in Sharmashik, [00:04:08] Egypt to plan the future for Palestine [00:04:10] as if it's their role to decide our [00:04:13] future as Palestinians. Is anything good [00:04:16] going to come out of this US-led summit? [00:04:19] What do you think? I don't see anything [00:04:20] good coming out of this except for an [00:04:22] end to the genocide which again is [00:04:23] something to welcome but we can't fool [00:04:26] ourselves into thinking that there's uh [00:04:28] any um steps towards [00:04:31] justice minimal Palestinian rights. [00:04:34] There's just none of that. Um the Gulf [00:04:37] States have long seen Palestinians as [00:04:38] kind of a nuisance [00:04:40] and they don't offer them anything. that [00:04:42] are just kind of a distraction. And [00:04:44] they're going along with this Trump [00:04:46] process of the so-called Abraham [00:04:47] Accords, which is just a way for Israel [00:04:49] to normalize with its neighbors while [00:04:50] offering the Palestinians absolutely [00:04:52] nothing. And all they're willing to say [00:04:55] is that there should be a pathway to a [00:04:56] Palestinian state, which is just such a [00:04:59] meaningless term. I mean, either there's [00:05:00] a Palestinian state or there isn't. A [00:05:02] pathway, uh, that kind of language is [00:05:04] just an excuse to put Palestinians on a [00:05:06] road to nowhere. That's what a pathway [00:05:08] means. Uh, it's somewhere far off in the [00:05:10] future. We just have to get there. No, [00:05:12] if you want to give Palestinians a [00:05:13] state, then the answer is very obvious. [00:05:15] Uproot all the illegal settlers in the [00:05:17] occupied West Bank. All of them. They [00:05:18] have no right to be there. Uh, and give [00:05:20] Palestinians the absolute minimum. And [00:05:24] of course, they deserve their entire [00:05:25] homeland back, but [00:05:28] the problem there is Israel's nuclear [00:05:29] weapons. And I just don't see the [00:05:31] immediate path to achieving that. So, at [00:05:32] the very minimum, give Palestinians what [00:05:35] their leaders have already accepted, a [00:05:36] state 22% of their stolen homeland. Uh [00:05:38] but of course that's not even in the [00:05:41] conversation and as I said earlier the [00:05:43] Arab League has stopped talking about [00:05:45] that and and you can see just how [00:05:48] determined [00:05:50] all these leaders are to crush Palestine [00:05:52] self-intermination by the refusal to [00:05:54] free Marwan Baruti who everybody knows [00:05:57] is the most popular political leader in [00:05:59] Palestine. If there were elections if [00:06:01] Israel allowed elections uh he would [00:06:03] win. He's not even from Hamas. He can't [00:06:06] even use the Hamas canard. Um he has [00:06:10] advocated in the past nonviolence. He [00:06:12] ticks all the boxes that like Western [00:06:13] liberals claim to support when it comes [00:06:15] to Palestine. Not that he should have to [00:06:17] tick all those boxes. What I'm saying is [00:06:19] from the point of view of their facious [00:06:21] arguments. Uh they have none to make uh [00:06:23] because he's a popular leader with [00:06:26] legitimacy and he's not even from Hamas, [00:06:28] which you know, everyone insists can't [00:06:30] rule Gaza anymore. And in fact, Hamas [00:06:32] says we don't even want to rule Gaza [00:06:33] anymore. So that's not even an issue. [00:06:34] So, Israel won't free him. The [00:06:36] Palestinian Authority, it's my sense [00:06:38] they've kind of abandoned him because [00:06:39] they see him as a threat to themselves [00:06:41] as well because who are they? They're a [00:06:44] corrupt collaborationist authority. And [00:06:47] Hamas, to their credit, tried to get him [00:06:50] freed. He was one of the people at the [00:06:52] top of their list. I think that was the [00:06:53] major goal of October 7th, you know, um [00:06:56] freeing a Palestinian political leader [00:06:59] who could unite the Palestinian people, [00:07:00] unite the different factions and have [00:07:02] popular legitimacy. Um which is, you [00:07:05] know, contrary all the propaganda that [00:07:07] Hamas has wanted to go in and kill [00:07:08] Israeli civilians. No, they were trying [00:07:10] to do the only thing that they felt they [00:07:12] had left, which is to create leverage [00:07:14] for themselves after having none. after [00:07:16] trying nonviolent protest, after trying [00:07:18] to accept a Palestinian state in just [00:07:21] 22% of their historic homeland, um after [00:07:24] being put under siege when they won [00:07:25] elections. So, this was their next last [00:07:29] gasp as they try to free a Palestinian [00:07:32] political leader like Marwan Barguti who [00:07:33] could actually unite the Palestinian [00:07:35] people and and be credible. So, you you [00:07:37] can see in the refusal to release Marwan [00:07:38] Barguti by Israel that there's just this [00:07:41] continued determination to crush the [00:07:43] Palestinian struggle for freedom. And [00:07:45] unfortunately, you have more states in [00:07:48] the region now that are acquiescing to [00:07:51] that. And so it's very ominous. [00:07:54] >> Absolutely. And what's even more ominous [00:07:56] is how this genocide has completely [00:07:59] transformed or maybe even lifted the [00:08:01] veil on just this uh Israeli takeover of [00:08:05] our corporate media and political [00:08:07] system. I mean, on the home front, we [00:08:09] have pro-Israel multi-billionaires like [00:08:11] the Ellison's buying CBS and possibly [00:08:14] Tik Tok that's coming up here very soon. [00:08:17] Um, and installing Barry Wise as [00:08:19] editor-inchief of CBS. The Financial [00:08:22] Times has reported that it was [00:08:24] explicitly her pro-Israel views that got [00:08:27] her the job. So, what have you made of [00:08:29] this hire and what does this say about [00:08:31] the state of modern journalism today? [00:08:35] You know, I'm a fan of comedy. And so my [00:08:38] problem is I love comedy so much that in [00:08:41] thinking about Barry Weiss being [00:08:43] installed at the head of CBS News, I [00:08:44] just I like the humor of it just takes [00:08:47] over cuz to me it's hilarious. This like [00:08:50] unqualified [00:08:52] u opinion columnist who's made a career [00:08:54] out of like being an activist for Israel [00:08:56] with no journalism experience whatsoever [00:08:59] with founding an outlet that's like just [00:09:01] such a transparent joke. one of their [00:09:03] biggest stories was trying to deny the [00:09:04] famine in Gaza uh by making the argument [00:09:07] that because some of the famine-stricken [00:09:11] kids had pre-existing conditions and [00:09:13] it's not really a famine but of course [00:09:16] the fact that suffering uh you know um [00:09:19] medically compromised people experience [00:09:22] starvation [00:09:24] uh is of course of that that's going to [00:09:26] happen when you have a famine is like [00:09:28] the most vulnerable people are going to [00:09:29] suffer first and that's just like you So [00:09:32] anyway, her being installed with CBS [00:09:34] News and like imagine being a CBS News [00:09:36] employee who like tries to take [00:09:38] journalism seriously and all of a sudden [00:09:40] your new boss is someone with no [00:09:41] journalism experience who's there cuz [00:09:43] she's a pro-Israel activist and it's [00:09:45] just like, hey, I'm your boss now. It's [00:09:47] it's like a it's a bad comedy. Um, so [00:09:50] it's funny and it does lift the mask off [00:09:54] of, you know, Zionist control of our [00:09:56] media, uh, along with the fact that, you [00:09:58] know, Tik Tok has been taken over, uh, [00:10:01] by the same forces that are that [00:10:02] installed Barry Weiss at CBS News [00:10:04] because as US politicians from Mitt [00:10:06] Romney to Anthony Blinkin openly [00:10:08] admitted, the kids were seeing too much [00:10:12] footage of dead babies in Gaza and they [00:10:15] were mad about it. So we therefore we [00:10:16] have to shut Tik Tok down. Um, so the [00:10:19] mask is off. It's funny, but it's also [00:10:23] terrifying. It speaks to the this [00:10:26] continued erosion of our freedom, of [00:10:28] our, you know, a a press that's actually [00:10:31] doing its job. And um the the the upside [00:10:36] is that nobody trusts these institutions [00:10:38] anymore. And do you think Barry Weiss is [00:10:40] going to help the for the fortunes of [00:10:42] CBS News? I feel bad for its employees, [00:10:45] but given that CBS News is a part of a [00:10:47] propaganda system that that overall [00:10:50] indoctrinates people on core issues of [00:10:52] foreign policy, especially of US [00:10:54] hegemony, then you know, maybe Barry [00:10:57] Weiss is by maybe Barry Weiss by heading [00:10:59] CBS News is doing us all a favor by just [00:11:02] exposing what a complete scam our [00:11:04] so-called free press is. Well, a recent [00:11:06] poll showed that what trust in American [00:11:08] media is at like the lowest point it's [00:11:10] ever been in like recent history. I [00:11:12] think the number was like 25% or [00:11:15] something like that. And makes me wonder [00:11:17] who are these 25% individuals? I mean, I [00:11:19] would think it's like this remaining [00:11:21] Christian Zionist uh supporters [00:11:24] supporters of Israel. And so uh she will [00:11:26] definitely keep them entertained. Um, so [00:11:30] for my final question for you, Erin, in [00:11:32] recent years, we've seen Twitter being [00:11:34] purchased by the sdently pro-Israel [00:11:37] Republican Elon Musk. We've seen Jeff [00:11:40] Bezos tell his staff at the Washington [00:11:42] Washington Post that critiquing [00:11:44] capitalism and the US-led order is [00:11:47] explicitly barred. And we have uh we're [00:11:50] seeing now the forc sale of Tik Tok to [00:11:53] Larry Ellison, who is the Israeli [00:11:55] military's largest international funer. [00:11:57] Is there any hope in this media [00:12:00] landscape as an independent journalist [00:12:02] yourself who covers the forever war [00:12:04] machine? And where can people turn to to [00:12:07] get the truth? [00:12:09] >> Well, listen, uh, you know, one result [00:12:12] of, uh, the recent Trump period is a [00:12:16] complete collapse in trust in corporate [00:12:18] media. And you know, part of that is for [00:12:22] unfortunate reasons like the sort of [00:12:24] like the Trump mythology and the cultish [00:12:27] aspects of MAGA just refusing to have [00:12:29] any criticism of dear leader, right? [00:12:31] That's one uh reason for the decline of [00:12:35] trust in corporate media, which is not a [00:12:36] thing to welcome. But another reason is [00:12:38] totally legitimate, which is that the [00:12:41] media did act in a deceptive way and on [00:12:44] so many issues related to Trump. I mean, [00:12:46] the most, I think, obvious example, the [00:12:48] one I spent a lot of time on is Russia [00:12:50] gate. The one of the dumbest conspiracy [00:12:52] theories of all time, the fact that the [00:12:54] idea that Trump is a Russian agent and [00:12:56] he's compromised by the Kremlin and [00:12:58] Russian oligarchs and Russia waged this [00:13:00] massive interference campaign to [00:13:02] brainwash Americans. It was a complete [00:13:04] scam on so many different levels. And by [00:13:06] the way, you know, since we're talking [00:13:08] about the Gaza genocide, [00:13:10] you you saw the clip, I'm sure, of Trump [00:13:12] going to uh the Israeli Parliament and [00:13:14] like basically again admitting that he [00:13:16] did that he did the bidding of Israel [00:13:18] first oligarchs Miriam and Sheldon [00:13:21] Adlesen. He reminded everybody that he [00:13:22] moved the US embassy to Jerusalem for [00:13:24] them that he basically that he does [00:13:26] their bidding. And compare that to all [00:13:29] the time and energy to how much time was [00:13:31] wasted going down this rabbit hole of [00:13:34] like the fictional Russian oligarchs [00:13:36] controlling Trump and the fictional [00:13:38] Kremlin minders controlling Trump. Um, [00:13:41] do any of these people who fearmongered [00:13:42] about so-called Russian interference [00:13:44] have anything to say about Trump's open [00:13:47] admission of being uh of doing the [00:13:50] bidding of Israel oligarchs under [00:13:52] Israeli influence? No. Because Russia [00:13:54] Gate was just a scam. And so, you know, [00:13:57] for good reason, people don't trust the [00:13:58] media because everyone in the media, [00:14:00] including, I'm sorry to say, some of our [00:14:02] independent media colleagues went along [00:14:03] with it. Um, so in that respect, there [00:14:06] are aspects of the decline of trust in [00:14:08] corporate media that are positive. But [00:14:09] there's also a cultish MAGA element here [00:14:12] where there's just no criticism [00:14:14] tolerated of the leader, and that's a [00:14:17] problem. And another problem is the [00:14:19] spaces we're in, man. I mean, I think [00:14:21] men press is a rare exception that [00:14:24] doesn't get duped by [00:14:27] the same forces uh that uh fool us on so [00:14:31] many issues. Like so for example, you [00:14:33] take an issue like the Gaza genocide [00:14:35] that's not controversial with an [00:14:36] independent media. No one supports [00:14:39] Israel. Initially, there were some [00:14:41] people who would parrot some Israeli [00:14:43] propaganda like the rape hoax. They got [00:14:45] duped by that. But for the most part, I [00:14:46] think independent media coverage is [00:14:48] really good. You look at a show like [00:14:49] Democracy Now where I used to work. They [00:14:51] do great coverage of Gaza. They [00:14:53] interview great people. Although I have [00:14:55] to say they also boycott certain great [00:14:57] guests like Norman Finkelstein who [00:14:58] hasn't been on throughout the entire [00:15:00] Gaza genocide, but that's another story. [00:15:02] Um, but on other issues like the Ukraine [00:15:04] proxy war, like Syria, like Russia gate, [00:15:07] the stories that require more critical [00:15:09] thinking and more intellectual [00:15:11] self-defense from our very sophisticated [00:15:13] propaganda system there. you know, some [00:15:17] of our colleagues have done a terrible [00:15:18] job and they've been duped by the same [00:15:20] propaganda that they debunk on other [00:15:22] issues. So, uh, that's something to [00:15:25] address. And for people working in [00:15:27] independent media, there's no shortage [00:15:29] of opportunities, uh, to be on the right [00:15:32] side, to be on the side of truth. Uh, [00:15:34] but it's hard because things are [00:15:35] increasingly fragmented. People's [00:15:37] attention is pulled in so many different [00:15:38] ways. It's hard to, you know, get people [00:15:40] to read something uh these days because [00:15:43] there just so many choices on offer. But [00:15:45] as always, you know, so long as we have [00:15:48] um some semblance of freedom, which we [00:15:50] do have here, uh there are opportunities [00:15:52] for people telling the truth. [00:15:54] >> Absolutely. And we thank you and commend [00:15:55] you for challenging the status quo with [00:15:57] your reporting at the Grey Zone and [00:15:59] Substack and your show with Katie [00:16:00] Halper. And uh hopefully we'll have you [00:16:02] on again, Aaron Mate. Thank you so much, [00:16:04] >> Manar. Uh thank you for having me on. [00:16:06] Thank you for all you do at Men Press [00:16:08] and I urge anyone uh with the means to [00:16:12] uh support your outlet which I think is [00:16:13] really important journalism that very [00:16:15] few other people including in the [00:16:16] independent media space are doing. So [00:16:18] it's an honor to join you and thank you. [00:16:20] >> Oh, thank you Erin. Really appreciate [00:16:22] that.