Trump Found Guilty: Ben Shapiro Breaks Down the Verdict

[00:00:00] Late on Thursday afternoon, American [00:00:02] democracy came under extraordinary [00:00:04] threat when a New York jury, 12 New [00:00:06] Yorkers decided to convict Donald Trump, [00:00:08] he has found been found guilty by the [00:00:10] jury on 34 separate felony counts. If he [00:00:15] is sentenced to jail time, that jail [00:00:17] time could be up to four years of all [00:00:19] the sentences run concurrently. It's a [00:00:21] travesty of justice. This case was a [00:00:23] joke from the very beginning. Manhattan [00:00:25] District Attorney Alvin Bragg, who set [00:00:27] this entire thing up to become more [00:00:29] famous and more powerful. Judge Juan [00:00:31] Merchin, who basically gave every [00:00:34] benefit to the prosecution, whose jury [00:00:35] instructions were unprecedented in their [00:00:37] willingness to flout the law. This was [00:00:40] all set up to convict Donald Trump [00:00:42] simply so that Democrats could either [00:00:44] jail Donald Trump or spend the next few [00:00:46] months declaring Donald Trump a [00:00:47] convicted felon for purposes of the [00:00:50] election. [00:00:52] The actual [00:00:54] methodology by which he was found guilty [00:00:56] is utterly uncertain. As we discussed a [00:00:59] little bit earlier today, the reality is [00:01:02] that there were two crimes alleged. A [00:01:04] misdemeanor falsification of business [00:01:06] records which would not have resulted in [00:01:08] any possible jail time. [00:01:11] But that was reliant to become a felony [00:01:14] on other on other crimes, unspecified [00:01:18] crimes. And those crimes could have been [00:01:20] a violation of federal finance law, [00:01:21] except that Donald Trump clearly did not [00:01:22] violate federal finance law. Not only [00:01:24] that, the federal government never even [00:01:26] bothered to charge him with violating [00:01:28] federal finance law, federal election [00:01:30] law in 2016. Check your calendar. It is [00:01:33] currently 2024. And the case that New [00:01:36] York just made is effectively that [00:01:39] Donald Trump violated election law in [00:01:41] 2016, falsified business records in [00:01:44] 2017, and somehow, despite the fact that [00:01:46] the statute of limitations has run [00:01:48] already, this is now a class E felony in [00:01:51] the state of New York, lengthening the [00:01:54] statute of limitations. The number of [00:01:57] hoops they had to jump through in order [00:01:58] to manufacture this case is [00:02:00] extraordinary. The number of [00:02:01] pretzel-like contortions the prosecution [00:02:04] had to drag the jury through was [00:02:06] extraordinary. But in the end, did any [00:02:07] of that matter? In the end, was this [00:02:09] ever about the legality of the case or [00:02:10] the evidence presented by a porn star, [00:02:13] Stormmy Daniels, or a convicted [00:02:14] perjurer, Michael Cohen, was it ever [00:02:17] about any of that? Or was it simply [00:02:19] this? If you get Donald Trump in front [00:02:21] of a jury of his supposed peers in New [00:02:23] York City, one of the bluest places in [00:02:25] America, and you charge him with [00:02:26] anything, if you charge him with [00:02:28] jaywalking, they will convict him. We [00:02:30] all know the answer to this. This was in [00:02:33] fact jury nullification, but it was also [00:02:35] prosecutorial nullification and judicial [00:02:37] nullification of the law. The law has [00:02:39] nothing to do with this verdict [00:02:41] whatsoever. This particular trial was [00:02:43] certainly about getting Donald Trump. [00:02:47] So, did they get Donald Trump? We have [00:02:49] yet to find out. I think the backlash on [00:02:50] this is going to be extraordinary [00:02:52] because this is so obviously a [00:02:54] manufactured case. It's so obviously a [00:02:56] stupid case that has nothing to do with [00:02:59] Donald Trump's supposed violations of [00:03:01] law. I don't think the American people [00:03:02] are going to stand for this. I think [00:03:04] that if Joe Biden believes this is going [00:03:06] to somehow redown to his benefit rather [00:03:07] than appearing as a politically [00:03:09] motivated hit job on his political [00:03:10] opponent in an unprecedented prosecution [00:03:13] of the man most likely to take him out [00:03:14] of office in November. I think he's got [00:03:16] another thing coming. I think if this [00:03:18] makes Joe Biden a hero in his own mind, [00:03:20] I don't think the American people are [00:03:21] going to react quite that way. [00:03:25] Now, as to what happens next, as to what [00:03:28] happens next, there is a procedure and [00:03:30] there is a process as to what happens [00:03:32] next, but it is quite possible that [00:03:35] Donald Trump could end up in jail [00:03:37] because Judge Merchen has been out to [00:03:39] get Trump this entire time. From the gag [00:03:42] order to the allowance of evidence, [00:03:44] Judge Merchant has made clear he wants [00:03:46] Donald Trump convicted. I think he's [00:03:48] going to make clear he wants him behind [00:03:50] bars. So, what exactly happens next? [00:03:53] Well, there's now a sentencing hearing. [00:03:55] That sentencing hearing will be within 2 [00:03:58] or 3 months of the verdict. So, we're [00:03:59] going to get weeks and weeks of [00:04:00] speculation about whether Donald Trump [00:04:02] is going to go to jail. Trump's [00:04:04] attorneys presumably will attempt to [00:04:06] appeal to the judge and hope to postpone [00:04:08] the sentencing beyond the election. [00:04:10] Marchen is almost certainly not going to [00:04:12] go along with that because obviously the [00:04:14] reason that he has structured this trial [00:04:16] in this way is to convict Donald Trump [00:04:18] and put him behind bars or at least [00:04:20] sentence him prior to the election. Now, [00:04:22] Trump isn't going to be dragged to jail [00:04:24] today. That's not the way this works [00:04:25] because it's a nonviolent felony. He [00:04:28] will not be detained pre-sentencing or [00:04:29] forced to post bail in all likelihood. [00:04:32] Instead, in the next few weeks, he'll be [00:04:34] dragged over to the dingy probation [00:04:36] office at the New York City courthouse. [00:04:39] According to the Washington Post, the [00:04:40] probation office would put together a [00:04:42] pre-sentencing report for Judge Merchin. [00:04:44] As part of that process, Trump would be [00:04:46] required to participate in an interview [00:04:47] with the probation officer, who would [00:04:48] produce a biography of him of about [00:04:50] four, five or six pages. Legal experts [00:04:52] said such documents are confidential, [00:04:54] intended only for the judge and the [00:04:56] lawyers. The court could agree to stay [00:04:58] Trump's sentence pending an appeal. That [00:05:01] process would last beyond the November [00:05:03] 5th presidential election. Again, I [00:05:05] highly doubt that they're going to stay [00:05:06] Trump's se sentence pending the appeal. [00:05:09] The only plausibility there is that if [00:05:11] there were a sentence that were so short [00:05:13] that it would actually be shorter than [00:05:15] the appeals process itself, maybe you [00:05:17] delay the sentencing until after the [00:05:19] appellet process goes forward. [00:05:21] Merchant's not going to do that. Given [00:05:23] everything we know about Judge Merchant, [00:05:24] who again was out to get Trump from the [00:05:26] beginning on this one, Trump is not [00:05:28] lying when he says that. It is highly [00:05:30] likely the merchant will move forward [00:05:32] with the sentencing hearing. [00:05:35] Merchant could impose a financial [00:05:37] penalty, require him to do community [00:05:38] service, undergo counseling. [00:05:41] He could also impose home confinement, [00:05:43] which would mean that Donald Trump would [00:05:45] basically be confined to doing events in [00:05:47] and around Mara Lago in Florida. [00:05:51] It's also possible that he could just [00:05:53] throw him in jail and no one knows what [00:05:55] the hell happens then. According to [00:05:58] Forbes in New York, classy felony [00:06:00] sentences for offenders who have not [00:06:01] been convicted of a felony within the [00:06:02] last 10 years, which would be Trump's [00:06:03] situation, are doled out concurrently in [00:06:05] thirds, such as one to three years. [00:06:07] Meaning that Trump could theoretically, [00:06:09] even if sentenced to the maximum here, [00:06:10] which would be about four years, be [00:06:12] eligible for parole, but only after a [00:06:14] year. If you were sentenced to a year or [00:06:16] less, he would serve out his sentence in [00:06:17] a city jail like Rikers, and then he [00:06:19] would be eligible for parole after [00:06:20] serving twothirds of the sentence. If [00:06:23] he's sentenced to more than a year, the [00:06:24] state deal department of corrections and [00:06:26] community supervision will determine [00:06:28] which of the 44 facilities he is sent [00:06:30] to. Secret Service has been gaming out [00:06:31] this possibility apparently for months. [00:06:33] As the New York Times reported, if he [00:06:35] ends up in prison, Secret Service would [00:06:37] theoretically have to keep him separate [00:06:39] from all the other inmates. They'd have [00:06:40] to screen his food and his personal [00:06:41] items. There'd be a detail of agents on [00:06:43] him 24 hours a day. The agents would in [00:06:45] fact be armed. All of this is insane. [00:06:48] The fact that we are even considering [00:06:50] this is totally and utterly insane. [00:06:54] Again, we keep being told by the media [00:06:56] that Merchant is unlikely to sentence [00:06:58] him to any jail time because he wouldn't [00:07:00] want to be the man who puts the chief [00:07:02] Republican candidate in prison. I think [00:07:04] precisely the reverse. I think Democrats [00:07:07] truly believe that if they throw Trump [00:07:09] in jail that the American people will [00:07:10] surrender to the Biden administration. [00:07:12] And if that's the case, this is in fact [00:07:15] a thwarting of basic standards of [00:07:19] democracy. To take a political opponent [00:07:22] on trumped up charges, find him guilty, [00:07:24] and then throw him in jail for purposes [00:07:26] of the election is insanity. It is third [00:07:28] world crap. It is insanity. And that's [00:07:31] presumably what we are talking about [00:07:33] right now. [00:07:35] When we talk about the idea that a [00:07:37] Manhattan DA, a politically motivated [00:07:39] Manhattan DA could go into his job with [00:07:43] the purpose of convicting Donald Trump. [00:07:46] That's what we are talking about. Third [00:07:48] world nonsense. Not only that, the [00:07:50] sentencing is going to be at least [00:07:51] partially dependent on Trump's attitude. [00:07:54] So, in the probation hearing, there are [00:07:56] a few different factors that are going [00:07:58] to be brought to play. His age, his [00:08:01] health, his likelihood to recommmit an [00:08:03] offense. But one of the factors is [00:08:05] remorse. Now you see why that is. [00:08:07] Normally in a criminal case, if somebody [00:08:08] commits a really, really dire crime and [00:08:09] they show no no remorse, you can see why [00:08:12] people would want them to be in jail. [00:08:13] But in this particular case, it's a [00:08:15] catch 22 for Trump. If he shows remorse [00:08:17] for a crime he did not commit, then [00:08:20] Biden just hammers him on that the rest [00:08:22] of the election cycle. And if he doesn't [00:08:23] show remorse, then Merchant says, "He [00:08:25] committed a crime. I had to put a gag [00:08:27] order on him, and then he didn't show [00:08:28] remorse, so I'm throwing him in jail." [00:08:32] There is a very real possibility here [00:08:35] that come November 5th, Donald Trump is [00:08:38] sitting in Rikers while the American [00:08:40] people are voting. [00:08:42] And if that's the case, the American [00:08:44] people should vote for him all the more [00:08:47] because once again, this was a [00:08:48] politically motivated prosecution. [00:08:51] The evidence was not there to support a [00:08:54] conviction. [00:08:55] In fact, the charges were not even there [00:08:59] to support a conviction. That's why [00:09:02] Merchant had to come up with this [00:09:03] bizarre theory whereby four jurors could [00:09:06] vote for one underlying crime, four [00:09:08] jurors could vote for another underlying [00:09:09] crime, and the last four could vote for [00:09:11] a third underlying crime, and they could [00:09:12] combine all of those into one giant [00:09:15] felony that would serve as the predicate [00:09:17] for the class E felony for falsifying [00:09:20] business records. [00:09:22] There's a high probability that this [00:09:24] will be reversed either in the state or [00:09:26] in the federal system. It's certainly a [00:09:28] violation of law in the state. It's [00:09:30] probably a violation of law federally [00:09:32] because using the federal elections [00:09:35] funding act to convict a guy in state [00:09:38] court is bizarre. [00:09:40] Whatever the case, the Democrats just [00:09:42] set the country on fire. Alvin Bragg [00:09:44] just set the country on fire. [00:09:47] I am absolutely astonished that this [00:09:50] trial was ever allowed to go forward. [00:09:51] I'm not particularly astonished at the [00:09:53] verdict, but the consequences of this [00:09:55] are extraordinarily dire because play [00:09:57] this one all the way out. Let's say for [00:09:59] a second that Donald Trump is sent to [00:10:04] jail by Juan Merchant and let's say that [00:10:07] while he is in jail, the election goes [00:10:10] forth and under those conditions, he [00:10:12] then loses the election. If you think he [00:10:14] was claiming rigging back in 2020, wait [00:10:17] until you hear about 2024 when the [00:10:19] Democrats charged him with a bunch of [00:10:21] garbage and then got 12 like-minded [00:10:24] jurors to throw him in jail under the [00:10:26] opaces of a glory seeking judge and took [00:10:29] him completely off the campaign trail [00:10:32] and smeared him as a felon in advance of [00:10:34] the election. [00:10:37] I mean all the same people who are [00:10:40] crying about Trump will be a tyrant, [00:10:42] Trump will he will undermine the rule of [00:10:43] law. We cannot have a country with [00:10:45] Donald Trump who will certainly destroy [00:10:48] democracy. It is hard for me to think of [00:10:50] anything less democratic than trumping [00:10:52] up a charge on your political opponent [00:10:54] to jail him during an election cycle [00:10:56] where you are currently losing, which is [00:10:58] what Joe Biden is doing right now. [00:11:02] It's utter and complete insanity. There [00:11:04] is no precedent for it. Obviously, the [00:11:06] only precedent for this in any way at [00:11:08] all is Eugene V. Debs running for [00:11:11] president from prison in 1920. But [00:11:15] that's not remotely this. He was a third [00:11:16] party candidate with no shot of winning. [00:11:18] Donald Trump is currently leading in the [00:11:19] polls. He is the most likely person in [00:11:22] America to be president of the United [00:11:24] States right now. [00:11:28] Where do we go from here as a country? [00:11:31] Well, what the polling shows, by the [00:11:32] way, is that a huge percentage of [00:11:34] Americans will not change their vote [00:11:35] based on this. Certainly Trump is not [00:11:37] going to lose any of the Trump vote [00:11:39] based on this. Nobody is going to start [00:11:42] shifting their vote away from Trump if [00:11:44] they were already voting for Trump based [00:11:46] on this. [00:11:48] A conviction would likely change very [00:11:51] little. [00:11:53] According to Fox News, [00:11:56] a new poll shows that regardless of [00:11:58] whether Trump is found guilty or [00:11:59] acquitted, the verdict would have no [00:12:01] impact on voters perception of the 2024 [00:12:03] rematch. Twothirds of registered voters [00:12:05] nationwide questioned in an NPR PBS [00:12:08] NewsHour Maris national poll released on [00:12:09] Thursday said that a guilty verdict in [00:12:11] the trial would make no difference to [00:12:12] their vote in the presidential election. [00:12:15] 17% said a conviction of Trump would [00:12:17] make them less likely. 15% said they'd [00:12:19] be more likely to support Trump at the [00:12:21] ballot box. [00:12:24] Again, only 9% [00:12:26] said that even if he was acquitted, [00:12:28] they'd be less likely to vote for him. [00:12:31] Now, this is a really narrow election. [00:12:33] That's what makes this so astonishing. I [00:12:34] mean, it's astonishing for a thousand [00:12:36] reasons, but one of the things that [00:12:37] makes it so unbelievably astonishing is [00:12:38] that this is an election that's going to [00:12:40] come down to tens of thousands of votes [00:12:43] in a handful of swing states. Again, [00:12:45] right now, Donald Trump is leading [00:12:46] outside the margin of error in Nevada, [00:12:49] which means all he has to do is win [00:12:52] Michigan or Pennsylvania and the [00:12:53] election is over. This thing could [00:12:55] easily come down to 2, 3, 4,000 votes in [00:12:59] one swing state. And if Donald Trump [00:13:02] were to lose in November while serving [00:13:06] prison time on a trumped up charge, the [00:13:09] response in the United States will be [00:13:10] absolutely explosive. You want to talk [00:13:12] about an illegitimate president at that [00:13:14] point? The American people will see a [00:13:17] Democrat elected under those opaces as [00:13:19] illegitimate. There's just no other way [00:13:20] to do it. There's no other way to even [00:13:22] see that. [00:13:25] Honestly, [00:13:27] Joe Biden is going to come out, I am [00:13:28] sure, [00:13:30] and pres and presumably he is going to [00:13:33] make comments about the law having been [00:13:35] done, no one being above the law, while [00:13:37] simultaneously the DOJ attempted to [00:13:39] broker a deal to save his own son from [00:13:42] jail. He himself was spared a [00:13:44] prosecution on mishandling of classified [00:13:47] documents because he was supposedly a [00:13:48] daughtering elderly man. And he's going [00:13:50] to lecture us about how the justice [00:13:52] system just worked. It did not. The [00:13:55] reverse. [00:13:57] Judge Marchen, for what it's worth, has [00:13:58] now set July 11th for the sentencing. [00:14:00] They're moving quite quickly. A [00:14:02] probation interview will be set for [00:14:03] Trump, according to Jonathan Turley, [00:14:04] who's in the courtroom. All motions must [00:14:06] be filed by June 13th. [00:14:10] Merchant was asking about bail status. [00:14:12] There is no bail and everybody has left. [00:14:15] We'll bring you comment from the Trump [00:14:17] camp as that comes in. Meanwhile, we [00:14:19] have Daily Wire reporter Spencer [00:14:20] Linquist. He is live from the [00:14:22] courthouse. Spencer, tell me what it's [00:14:24] like over there. [00:14:27] We've got a loud and chaotic scene right [00:14:30] here. We're in just outside of the [00:14:31] courthouse at a park just across the [00:14:33] street here in New York City. Uh and [00:14:35] it's been a mix today. We've seen a lot [00:14:37] of people coming out here to support [00:14:39] President Trump. Uh and now it's a lot [00:14:41] of people of course were um very very [00:14:43] happy that he's been convicted. People [00:14:45] are calling it a u a victory for [00:14:48] democracy. But I think something uh that [00:14:50] that is unmistakable is that today is a [00:14:53] uh it's it's we we've crossed we've got [00:14:58] a moment in our history right now uh [00:15:00] that I think we're going to look back on [00:15:02] with with a lot of significance and [00:15:04] everybody's turning now towards [00:15:05] November. You see uh what will this mean [00:15:07] for the election? What will this mean uh [00:15:11] in this match up against Biden? Of [00:15:12] course, that question is still one that [00:15:14] is yet to be answered, but we're seeing [00:15:16] a mix of emotions here on the ground in [00:15:18] New York. [00:15:22] So, Spencer, are we expecting to hear [00:15:24] from the Trump camp sometime in the near [00:15:25] future here? I would assume that that [00:15:27] the parties are are variously leaving [00:15:29] the courthouse. Trump obviously was not [00:15:30] arrested inside the courtroom. They have [00:15:31] a sentencing hearing that's happening in [00:15:33] about 6 weeks is what we are hearing. [00:15:34] Has there been any word where you are on [00:15:37] when Trump will emerge and and if he's [00:15:39] going to say something to the press, [00:15:40] which I assume he will? [00:15:43] heard anything uh regarding the [00:15:45] specifics of when Trump will comment or [00:15:47] what he'll say, but we do know that he's [00:15:49] been very vocal throughout the course uh [00:15:51] of this case. He's been very vocal on [00:15:53] his social media platform, Truth Social. [00:15:55] Uh and I believe we can expect him to [00:15:57] continue to be very vocal now that this [00:15:59] now that this uh now that this case has [00:16:01] ended, I believe I believe he'll be [00:16:03] he'll be speaking, I'm sure, before [00:16:05] long. Uh but we're still awaiting the [00:16:07] specifics on exactly when that might be. [00:16:12] Well, Spencer, really appreciate it. We [00:16:13] will check back in with you as time goes [00:16:16] on if Donald Trump emerges. Thanks for [00:16:18] thanks for being there. We'll be back [00:16:19] with you momentarily. All right, so [00:16:22] coming up in a little bit, we're going [00:16:23] to have Har Dylan, constitutional [00:16:25] lawyer. She's done work with the Trump [00:16:27] campaign as well to comment on what [00:16:29] happens next, the impact on the [00:16:31] election, the the nature of this [00:16:33] particular case. Again, this we are now [00:16:36] in uncharted territory. There's never [00:16:37] been anything like this in American [00:16:38] history. [00:16:41] Merchant has thanked the jury as far as [00:16:43] as far as we are being updated. The [00:16:45] Biden campaign has now released a [00:16:47] statement. Quote, "In New York today, [00:16:49] predicted moments ago, we saw that no [00:16:51] one is above the law." Is that what we [00:16:53] saw? Is that what we saw? Donald Trump [00:16:56] has always mistakenly believed he would [00:16:57] never face consequences for breaking the [00:16:59] law for his own personal gain. But [00:17:00] today's verdict does not change the fact [00:17:02] the American people face a simple [00:17:03] reality. There is still only one way to [00:17:05] keep Donald Trump out of the Oval [00:17:06] Office. at the ballot box. Convicted, [00:17:07] felon or not, Trump will be the [00:17:09] Republican nominee for president. The [00:17:10] threat Trump poses to our democracy has [00:17:12] never been greater. He is running an [00:17:13] increasingly unhinged campaign of [00:17:14] revenge and retribution, pledging to be [00:17:16] a dictator on day one, calling for our [00:17:17] Constitution to be terminated so he can [00:17:19] regain and keep power. A second Trump [00:17:21] term means chaos, ripping away Americans [00:17:22] freedoms and fermenting political [00:17:24] violence. The American people will [00:17:25] reject it in November. That is the Biden [00:17:28] campaign. So definitely calming the [00:17:29] waters right there by suggesting that [00:17:31] tyranny is at hand if Trump is elected [00:17:33] after Democrats motivated by politics [00:17:36] jailed are moving to jail the former [00:17:39] president and possibly future president [00:17:41] of the United States. You want to talk [00:17:43] about projection? The Biden campaign [00:17:46] suggesting that this is no one is above [00:17:48] the law while Joe Biden sits there [00:17:51] having been let off the hook by his own [00:17:52] DOJ with his son. They attempted to let [00:17:55] his son off the hook, his DOJ. [00:17:58] Him sitting there and suggesting that [00:17:59] Trump poses a threat to our democracy, [00:18:02] while a Manhattan district attorney [00:18:04] pushes to jail the current Republican [00:18:08] front runner and overall presidential [00:18:10] front runner. That the threat to our [00:18:11] democracy is from Trump is totally [00:18:14] insane. It's totally, utterly, [00:18:16] completely insane. We do have Donald [00:18:18] Trump's immediate response. Here is what [00:18:20] President Trump had to say upon emerging [00:18:23] from the courthouse. [00:18:26] This was a disgrace. This was a rigged [00:18:29] trial by a conflicted judge who was [00:18:32] corrupt. [00:18:33] It's a rigged trial. A disgrace. [00:18:36] They wouldn't give us a venue change. We [00:18:39] were at 5% or 6% [00:18:43] in this district, in this area. This was [00:18:46] a rigged, disgraceful trial that the [00:18:50] real verdict is going to be November 5th [00:18:53] by the people and they know what [00:18:55] happened here and everybody knows what [00:18:57] happened here. You have a sore respected [00:19:00] DA and the whole thing. We didn't do a [00:19:04] thing wrong. I'm a very innocent man and [00:19:08] it's okay. I'm fighting for our country. [00:19:10] I'm fighting for our constitution. Our [00:19:13] whole country is being rigged right now. [00:19:15] This was done by the Biden [00:19:17] administration [00:19:19] in order to wound or hurt an opponent, a [00:19:22] political opponent. And I think it's a [00:19:24] just a disgrace. And we'll keep [00:19:27] fighting. We'll fight till the end and [00:19:28] we'll win because our country's gone to [00:19:31] hell. We don't have the same country [00:19:33] anymore. We have a divided mess. We're [00:19:36] nation in decline. Serious decline. [00:19:38] millions and millions of people pouring [00:19:40] into our country right now from prisons [00:19:43] and from mental institutions, [00:19:46] terrorists, and they're taking over our [00:19:49] country. We have a country that's in big [00:19:51] trouble. But this was a rigged decision [00:19:53] right from day one with a conflicted [00:19:56] judge who should have never been allowed [00:19:58] to try this case. Never. And we will [00:20:01] fight for our Constitution. This is long [00:20:03] from over. Thank you very much. [00:20:07] He ain't wrong. Joining us on the line [00:20:09] to discuss is Har Dylan. She of course [00:20:11] is the managing partner of Dylan Law [00:20:13] Group and she's done work with the Trump [00:20:15] campaign particularly with regard to [00:20:16] election law. Harate, obviously this is [00:20:19] an extraordinarily dark day in the [00:20:21] history of the American Republic. [00:20:23] unprecedented for a local prosecutor in [00:20:26] Manhattan to pick up what really is a a [00:20:30] felony federal charge that was never [00:20:32] tried, try to spin it into a state law [00:20:35] charge, charge it 34 times, and then [00:20:38] receive a conviction. What do you make [00:20:39] of the trial, and then we'll get to what [00:20:41] comes next? [00:20:42] Well, Ben, I'm almost at a loss for [00:20:44] words. This is an unprecedented day, as [00:20:46] you've said, not just for our country, [00:20:48] but for our legal system. And what we [00:20:51] saw in this case, this is the first time [00:20:53] ever in New York State that [00:20:54] falsification of records has been [00:20:56] charged as a felony. The statute of [00:20:58] limitations is run. Uh the federal [00:21:01] prosecutors, these state prosecutors [00:21:03] previously, the FC, every agency that [00:21:07] could have charged these crimes rejected [00:21:09] them as not being crimes. And so this is [00:21:12] a Frankenstein case put together and and [00:21:15] life breathed into it by a judge who [00:21:18] rigged it. I'm not surprised when I [00:21:20] heard that the jury came back with a [00:21:21] verdict and knew what the verdict was [00:21:22] going to be because the best case [00:21:24] scenario here would have been that one [00:21:26] honest juror would have looked at this [00:21:28] steaming pile of dung and said no I [00:21:31] cannot participate in this farce. But [00:21:33] the way the judge put blinders on the [00:21:35] jury, the way the judge gave grossly [00:21:38] improper jury instructions, the way the [00:21:41] judge refused to recuse himself, allowed [00:21:43] prejuditial evidence to be had and [00:21:46] generally rigged this from day one. This [00:21:48] was a foregone conclusion almost. And [00:21:50] so, you know, what we have to do here is [00:21:53] pray that the appeals process goes [00:21:55] forward. However, I do think that from a [00:21:57] political standpoint, uh, Ben, this has [00:22:00] backfired bigly, as President Trump [00:22:02] would say. He is now more popular than [00:22:04] he was at the beginning of this [00:22:05] prosecution. And I hope that the [00:22:07] American people see this for what it is. [00:22:09] And we cannot let this stand in our [00:22:11] country. It reminds me of Pakistan. It [00:22:14] reminds me of the Middle East. It [00:22:16] reminds me of places where they don't [00:22:17] have the rule of law and this is really [00:22:19] a dangerous state for our country. [00:22:22] Yeah, Harit, this is obviously a [00:22:24] kangaroo court situation. We've all [00:22:26] spent a lot of time following this [00:22:28] trial. The truth is that I personally [00:22:29] didn't spend a lot of time on it because [00:22:30] it's pretty clear as soon as they [00:22:31] brought charges, no matter what it was, [00:22:33] that Trump was going to get convicted. I [00:22:34] mean, this is simply picking a [00:22:35] jurisdiction where people hate Donald [00:22:37] Trump, bringing him up on literally [00:22:38] anything, manufacturing some charge or [00:22:41] another to spin it into a felony and [00:22:43] then and then charging him with it. And [00:22:44] that was pretty clear from Judge [00:22:46] Merchant's jury instructions, which when [00:22:47] you go through in detail, I've never [00:22:48] seen anything remotely like this. I [00:22:50] mean, you you had a situation in which [00:22:51] you had a misdemeanor that had run the [00:22:54] statute of limitations with regards to [00:22:55] falsification of business records. That [00:22:57] was kept alive by spinning the idea that [00:22:59] that was a falsification on behalf of a [00:23:01] second unspecified crime. There were [00:23:03] three theories that were put forward as [00:23:05] to what that second unspecified crime [00:23:06] was. and Judge Merchin then informed the [00:23:09] jury they didn't even have to agree on [00:23:10] what the underlying crime was that the [00:23:12] falsification of business records was [00:23:14] supposed to be hiding that they could [00:23:15] actually divide four four and four on [00:23:18] those various crime I what I compared [00:23:20] that to is that that's sort of like [00:23:22] saying that in a felony murder case [00:23:24] where the murder is imputed to a person [00:23:25] who didn't commit the murder based on [00:23:26] the underlying felony that everybody was [00:23:28] committing together like robbing a bank [00:23:29] that there are actually like five [00:23:31] felonies that are charged you don't have [00:23:32] to agree the jurors don't have to agree [00:23:34] on what the felony was it could be like [00:23:35] one of five different felonies and they [00:23:37] could vehemently disagree, but you could [00:23:39] still charge somebody with felony [00:23:40] murder. I've never heard of of uni [00:23:43] unonymity by aggregation. That that [00:23:45] seemed like a weird concept to me. [00:23:47] It's it's it's it's nonsense. That's why [00:23:49] you never heard of it. Judges are [00:23:50] ashamed to let such a thing pass and [00:23:52] prosecutors are ashamed to propose it. [00:23:54] I've never seen it proposed even in a [00:23:56] case. And there's United States Supreme [00:23:58] Court precedent that says that where [00:23:59] there's a crime that requires a [00:24:01] predicate act, the jury has to agree [00:24:03] unanimously on what the predicate act [00:24:04] is. And in this case, there is no case [00:24:07] period if there isn't a single felony [00:24:09] that the jury agrees on unanimously. [00:24:11] Now, what's also clear in this case, [00:24:13] Ben, I mean, you know, from being a [00:24:15] lawyer yourself, uh, that judges are [00:24:18] normally embarrassed to be to be [00:24:20] reversed. That's one sort of social [00:24:22] check that keeps them in place. [snorts] [00:24:25] They're they're embarrassed that they [00:24:27] might have a record that make looks bad [00:24:28] on appeal. But in this case, the judge, [00:24:31] I think, is fully aware that he's [00:24:32] committed numerous acts of reversible [00:24:34] error. and he doesn't care. I think the [00:24:35] endgame for this judge is a lucrative [00:24:38] book deal, TV uh slot with CNN, MSNBC. [00:24:42] His daughter continues to get big [00:24:44] multi-million dollar payouts from her [00:24:46] company. Um and it's just upside for a [00:24:50] political hack of a judge. And so, you [00:24:52] know, that's the problem is that the [00:24:54] normal breaks and social barriers that [00:24:56] apply and speed bumps that apply in our [00:24:58] country have been degraded over the last [00:25:00] few years in this get Trump effort. So, [00:25:02] you know, I I've been a lawyer for 31 [00:25:04] years, and I really question, you know, [00:25:07] when you go into a court and you try to [00:25:09] explain [snorts] to a client how it's [00:25:10] going to go, can you predict that [00:25:11] anymore? Because this is not a [00:25:13] predictable outcome of a just legal [00:25:15] system. [00:25:17] So, Harmy, I think the big question on [00:25:19] everybody's mind now is whether he's [00:25:21] going to actually be sentenced by Judge [00:25:22] Merchant to jail time. I would be [00:25:23] shocked if he is not. Considering the [00:25:25] way that this trial has proceeded, [00:25:27] considering what a mess the charges were [00:25:29] in the first place, it is obvious to me [00:25:30] that if Merchant stops short of sending [00:25:32] him to jail, he wouldn't be going all [00:25:34] the way. If he wants that lucrative book [00:25:35] contract, he has to be the guy who sent [00:25:37] Donald Trump to jail. How do you think [00:25:39] the sentencing goes? Particularly [00:25:40] because one aspect of the sentencing is [00:25:42] that supposedly you get a an easier [00:25:44] sentence if you show remorse. Trump [00:25:46] literally cannot show remorse for a [00:25:47] crime he did not commit because there's [00:25:48] no crime alleged. So, how do you think [00:25:50] that sentencing goes? [00:25:52] Yeah, I I agree with you completely. I [00:25:54] think the judge's charter politically [00:25:55] was throw the book at this guy, tie him [00:25:57] up, embarrass him, humiliate him, and by [00:26:00] the way, hold this sentencing despite [00:26:02] other cases that he's got going on one [00:26:05] week before the Republican National [00:26:06] Convention to try to smear that as well. [00:26:10] And so, um, the talking points from the [00:26:12] Democrats as they're going to be [00:26:13] turnurning out in minutes, uh, will be [00:26:15] the Republicans are nominating a [00:26:17] convicted felon. um you know, save our [00:26:19] country, vote for Joe Biden, who himself [00:26:21] is, of course, in my opinion, guilty of [00:26:24] many crimes that his DOJ will never [00:26:26] charge him or his son even for. They're [00:26:28] slapping them on the wrist with minor [00:26:30] things with the son. So, um you know, we [00:26:33] have to hope that the American voting [00:26:36] public, first of all, will get out and [00:26:38] vote and be outraged by this and be [00:26:40] motivated. As you pointed out in your [00:26:42] intro, it's really not going to change. [00:26:44] If anything, it's going to strengthen [00:26:46] the resolve of the MAGA voters. But I [00:26:48] think there are actually a lot more [00:26:49] voters out there who are disgusted. I've [00:26:51] seen a lot of never Trumper people I [00:26:53] know in my social circles who say [00:26:55] they're going to vote for President [00:26:56] Trump as a result of this. And so I [00:26:58] think it may backfire, but then you have [00:26:59] to look at whether we have a fair [00:27:00] election or not. I don't think we had a [00:27:02] fair election in 2020. And so, you know, [00:27:04] the rigging is going pretty deep here in [00:27:06] our country. I'm I'm sorry to say that [00:27:08] as an American, but uh I think I have [00:27:10] very serious concerns about the justice [00:27:12] system at this point. And by the way, [00:27:14] these judges at the state level are also [00:27:17] the ones who determine elections. And so [00:27:19] if it happened in New York and [00:27:20] Manhattan, you know that they're able to [00:27:22] get to judges in other places as well. [00:27:26] So Har, what is the process for for [00:27:28] Trump's legal team now? So presumably [00:27:30] there will be state appeals. If this [00:27:32] isn't reversible error, I don't know [00:27:33] what is. There could be theoretical [00:27:34] federal appeals based presumably on the [00:27:36] idea that they charged a federal crime [00:27:38] in a state court, which you're not [00:27:39] supposed to do. I mean, that's [00:27:40] effectively what they convicted him [00:27:42] based upon. How do you see the appellet [00:27:44] process playing out? Do they try to go [00:27:45] straight to federal court and try to get [00:27:46] this to the Supreme Court? Do they try [00:27:48] to move through the state courts, which [00:27:49] are typically rigged on behalf of [00:27:50] Democrats in the state of New York? [00:27:53] Yeah, I mean, the normal process would [00:27:54] be to go up to the intermediate court of [00:27:56] appeals in New York, and then the then [00:27:58] the Supreme Court of New York. So, [00:27:59] there's two levels of appeal there. We [00:28:01] already have a hint from the fact that [00:28:03] the campaign the the president rather [00:28:06] appealed the judge's failure to recuse [00:28:08] himself which he was statutoily required [00:28:11] to do given the personal financial [00:28:13] interest of an immediate family member [00:28:14] and the court of appeals let the case go [00:28:16] forward under this judge. So that's not [00:28:18] a good sign for the intermediate level [00:28:21] court of appeals. And typically you're [00:28:23] only able to take a federal appeal after [00:28:25] you've exhausted your estate remedies at [00:28:27] the highest court, which is not going to [00:28:28] happen in my opinion as a lawyer before [00:28:31] the election. Um, you know, there are [00:28:33] other things you could take [00:28:34] extraordinary rits of habius or such, [00:28:36] but you know, until until they've got [00:28:37] him in custody. I don't think they're [00:28:39] going to be looking at that. So, you [00:28:41] know, I think it's going to wind its way [00:28:42] through the system and eventually if [00:28:44] there are some honest judges along the [00:28:46] way, this should get reversed on a dozen [00:28:49] grounds. I think that was I saw [00:28:51] reversible error on a daily basis [00:28:52] following this trial. [00:28:54] Um so you know it I I think it makes him [00:28:56] more popular frankly politically putting [00:28:58] back my political hat but it this is a [00:29:01] shameful day for American history. Uh [00:29:03] and you know young people who are [00:29:04] thinking about law school are going to [00:29:06] look at this and say do I want to be [00:29:07] part of this system? And you know, so I [00:29:09] think that's really degrading the rule [00:29:10] of law and people's respect for law [00:29:12] throughout the country, not just uh with [00:29:14] respect to this case because if you're [00:29:16] willing to weaponize the entire legal [00:29:18] system to get a political candidate, [00:29:21] then you can do anything. Everything [00:29:23] else uh is below that in terms of of of [00:29:26] level of of magnitude of of corruption. [00:29:32] That's Har Dylan. She is a Dylan Law [00:29:35] Group. Hermit, appreciate the time. dark [00:29:37] day for the country. Thanks for your [00:29:39] insight on all of this. [00:29:41] My pleasure. Thanks for having me. [00:29:44] Now, let's talk about the political [00:29:45] fallout of everything that is going on [00:29:47] right here. So, once again, the entire [00:29:51] Biden campaign is predicated on the idea [00:29:53] that Donald Trump cannot be allowed into [00:29:55] high office. Does this trial and the [00:29:59] conviction, does that mean that [00:30:02] Americans are more likely to see Trump [00:30:04] as a threat to democracy? I think the [00:30:06] reverse. I think that more people are [00:30:08] going to look at this and see Joe Biden [00:30:10] as a threat to democracy and his [00:30:11] administration and Democrats. [00:30:13] Remember Donald Trump in 2016 had crowds [00:30:17] cheering lock her up. And you will [00:30:18] remember that at the time the media and [00:30:20] the Democrats suggested that this was [00:30:22] tyrannical. How could you say lock her [00:30:23] up even though she had clearly committed [00:30:25] crimes with regard to classified [00:30:26] information? How could you possibly say [00:30:28] lock her up? It was just tyrannical of [00:30:30] Trump to suggest such a thing. And then [00:30:31] of course Trump didn't do that. Trump [00:30:33] didn't move to lock her up. didn't he [00:30:35] didn't activate his DOJ to go after his [00:30:37] political opponent. [00:30:40] And then that and by the way that was [00:30:42] after an election cycle in which the [00:30:43] Obama FBI was literally investigating [00:30:46] the Trump campaign. Every weapon at the [00:30:49] disposal of the federal government has [00:30:51] now been launched at Donald Trump from [00:30:53] the FBI in 2016 [00:30:56] going after Carter Page, going after the [00:30:58] Trump campaign, laundering fusion GPS [00:31:02] nonsense reports into the public eye all [00:31:06] the way up through the 2020 election [00:31:08] cycle. And now you have the you you have [00:31:12] the justice system being mobilized by [00:31:14] Democrats, motivated partisan Democrats [00:31:17] to get Donald Trump. Who's the threat to [00:31:20] the democracy? Who's the threat to [00:31:22] America right now? Is it the guy who has [00:31:25] been targeted by all these institutions [00:31:27] or is it the people who have wielded [00:31:29] these institutions and are wielding them [00:31:31] in real time? [00:31:34] This is the insane. This is we're now [00:31:37] living in the insane asylum. If you're [00:31:39] waiting for politics to cool down, well, [00:31:42] you picked the wrong time to be alive, [00:31:44] apparently. Joining us on the line is my [00:31:47] quasi friend, Michael Nolles, who's been [00:31:48] watching all of this with, I would say, [00:31:50] a sufficient amount of outrage given his [00:31:52] Twitter account. Michael, I I've never [00:31:55] obviously seen anything like this. No [00:31:57] one's ever seen anything like this. It's [00:31:58] truly a horrifying day for the country. [00:32:01] Horrifying [00:32:01] on every possible level. I have here on [00:32:03] my desk a flag that was flying at [00:32:06] Justice Alto's house for which he got in [00:32:08] trouble. It's an American Revolutionary [00:32:10] War flag. It says an appeal to heaven. [00:32:12] Uh supposedly according to the left to [00:32:14] fly such a a flag that was uh raised by [00:32:18] George Washington and made by his aid to [00:32:20] camp that makes us the insurrectionists [00:32:22] and the threat to democracy. You of [00:32:23] course said it very very well. I think [00:32:25] most people are going to look at this [00:32:26] and say the Democrats are the the real [00:32:29] threat to our political order. And and [00:32:31] not just a threat, they they have [00:32:34] impaled our political order. We had a [00:32:37] 234year [00:32:39] and 4month agreement not to prosecute [00:32:44] presidents, former presidents, and major [00:32:46] party nominees. We just had never done [00:32:48] that. And so you got to ask yourself, [00:32:51] why is it did we not prosecute these [00:32:53] people because they never commit crimes? [00:32:55] No, actually they've committed plenty of [00:32:57] crimes. The current president has [00:32:58] committed some crimes. Uh two presidents [00:33:01] ago, Barack Obama, he definitely [00:33:02] committed some crimes. So why why have [00:33:04] we not done it? One of the reasons we've [00:33:06] not done it is that it is not possible [00:33:08] to have an impartial jury when you're [00:33:11] talking about the top politician in the [00:33:13] country. Everybody has a view. This is [00:33:15] the chief executive. This is a man who [00:33:17] in his person represents the country and [00:33:20] the spirit of the people. So it it can't [00:33:23] happen and it's always going to be kind [00:33:24] of a kangaroo court which is why from [00:33:27] the beginning I think we all knew this [00:33:29] was a kangaroo court. It seemed very [00:33:30] rigged. The judge Mawn in this case uh [00:33:33] seemed nakedly partisan and political. [00:33:36] The charges were basically incoherent. [00:33:39] One of them was really should have been [00:33:40] a federal charge. One you couldn't is it [00:33:42] a is it a felony? Is it a misdemeanor? [00:33:44] or if it's a misdemeanor, it's actually [00:33:45] passed the statute of limitations. But [00:33:47] but I I didn't really care about any of [00:33:49] the legal argument because of that fact [00:33:51] that it's so obviously a political [00:33:53] question. So when I was looking at it [00:33:55] this morning, we're all waiting for the [00:33:57] results. I said the only thing that is [00:34:00] going to determine the outcome in this [00:34:02] case is whether or not a secret [00:34:04] conservative snuck onto the jury. That's [00:34:06] pretty much it. if that person is [00:34:09] proTrump. And I looked through the New [00:34:10] York Times did a little biography of [00:34:12] each of the jurors and I said, "Ah, well [00:34:14] that that person says that she listens [00:34:16] to religious podcasts, maybe. I don't [00:34:17] know. This person, he lives on the Upper [00:34:19] East Side, but he works in finance. I [00:34:21] don't know. Maybe, but there is no [00:34:23] chance, right? We're talking about [00:34:24] Manhattan jurors. I think Trump got [00:34:26] about three votes in Manhattan in 2020. [00:34:29] The the whole thing was a setup from day [00:34:31] one. And what what's so sad about it is [00:34:34] Trump might get a little political boost [00:34:36] here in the sense that people are going [00:34:37] to recognize this is unfair. There was [00:34:39] one poll on the federal case. 62% of [00:34:42] Americans view the federal charges as [00:34:44] being primarily politically motivated. [00:34:45] So people know what's up in America. But [00:34:48] but from the historical perspective, you [00:34:51] can't put the genie back in the bottle. [00:34:53] 235 years almost of of an agreement not [00:34:57] to behave like a banana republic, a [00:34:59] tinpot dictatorship that is out the [00:35:01] window. Democrats did it and it can't be [00:35:04] undone. [00:35:06] Well, President Biden apparently will [00:35:08] not address Trump's conviction tonight. [00:35:09] So, apparently they weren't able to get [00:35:11] a hold of enough aderall to get him up [00:35:13] and in front of a TV. He has made a [00:35:14] statement as we mentioned earlier in [00:35:16] which he talked about how now everyone [00:35:18] is being accountable before the law [00:35:19] which is an incredible statement from a [00:35:21] man who clearly violated classified [00:35:22] documents law himself and was openly [00:35:25] held to have done so by the DOJ lawyer [00:35:28] Robert her who literally said the only [00:35:30] reason that he didn't prosecute him is [00:35:32] because he's a scenile old daughter. [00:35:33] That's literally what he says. And now [00:35:35] he's out there saying that obviously the [00:35:37] real threat to democracy is the guy who [00:35:39] is being convicted of crimes that don't [00:35:41] exist in a Democrat courtroom. This is [00:35:44] the part that is that is truly [00:35:46] astonishing and I think that you are [00:35:47] going to see an enormous consolidation [00:35:50] around Trump. Certainly people who are [00:35:53] lukewarm on Trump. Maybe the people who [00:35:55] supported Nikki Haley at the end of the [00:35:56] primaries or people who are Dantis [00:35:58] supporters and were still kind of [00:35:59] waiting to jump all the way back on the [00:36:00] Trump bandwagon. That's over now. You're [00:36:02] going to get 100% adherence to Trump on [00:36:05] the right. But I think independents too [00:36:06] are going to look at this and they are [00:36:08] going to say that Donald Trump is being [00:36:10] victimized here. He is clearly being [00:36:12] victimized here. And in a certain weird [00:36:14] political way, I think this is quite [00:36:16] good for Trump because one of the things [00:36:17] is that Trump likes to talk about Trump. [00:36:19] I mean, that's just the reality of of [00:36:21] who Donald Trump is as a candidate. [00:36:23] Well, there were only really two topics [00:36:25] on which he was speaking in the past few [00:36:27] months. One was the January 6th, 2020 [00:36:29] election stuff. And two were the trials. [00:36:33] And the trials, it's fine for him to [00:36:34] talk about. That is a fine political [00:36:36] thing for him to talk about because [00:36:37] there you are talking about the serious [00:36:38] issue of one party mobilizing the [00:36:40] instruments of government in order to [00:36:42] victimize members of the opposing party [00:36:44] and that is a much better campaign for [00:36:46] him to run than anything related to [00:36:47] 2020. I mean, if they get to a debate [00:36:50] and Joe Biden says January 6th was a [00:36:52] threat to democracy, Donald Trump should [00:36:54] say, and I'm sure he will, yeah, [00:36:56] you mobilizing every piece of the [00:36:58] Justice Department from state to federal [00:37:00] in order to convict your political [00:37:01] opponent in advance of an election [00:37:03] you're losing. that seems to be much [00:37:04] more of a threat to democracy than [00:37:06] anything that I've done. I mean, I think [00:37:08] the door is wide open on Biden and team [00:37:11] because of this conviction. I mean, this [00:37:14] is this is the the astonishing point [00:37:16] here is that they really thought that by [00:37:18] convicting Trump, they were going to [00:37:20] finish his candidacy. And instead, all [00:37:21] they've done is create just another [00:37:23] label they can throw at him. But what [00:37:25] they've really done is is shape [00:37:26] Americans perceptions of them. Like [00:37:27] right now, I want to get your take on [00:37:28] this, Michael. I'm hearing a lot of [00:37:30] people out there on the right and [00:37:30] they're like, "Well, you know, [00:37:31] Republican DA should start immediately [00:37:33] indicting Democratic politicians." [00:37:35] I don't think that's right because I [00:37:37] think the American people don't like [00:37:38] what they're seeing. If the American [00:37:40] people were fine with what they're [00:37:41] seeing, I think that that's totally [00:37:43] right because I think what's good for [00:37:44] the goose is good for the gander. But I [00:37:46] actually think that this is a political [00:37:48] win for Republicans in the sense that [00:37:50] they're not the party tearing down [00:37:51] democracy right now. It is the Democrats [00:37:52] who are indicting their political [00:37:53] opponents, dragging them up in blue [00:37:55] areas where they don't even live, and [00:37:57] then threatening them with jail time. By [00:37:59] the way, I think I I I think Merchian is [00:38:01] going to sentence them to jail. I think [00:38:02] that you can't I think Chuck's gun must [00:38:04] be used. I think that if that that that [00:38:05] if you get this far, if you're Merchian, [00:38:07] you're going to go all this way. I don't [00:38:09] think you go all this way just to [00:38:10] sentence him to probation. [00:38:11] If you come at the king, you best not [00:38:13] miss. To quote the wire, who is quoting [00:38:16] uh more elegant sources, of course. of [00:38:18] course Merchant ha has to sentence him [00:38:20] to to jail. Uh and I agree with you that [00:38:23] that politically this this looks good. [00:38:26] The Democrats are stepping on a rake and [00:38:28] Trump can be a martyr and sort of is a [00:38:30] martyr now. I think it it's totally [00:38:32] legitimate. What worries me though is [00:38:34] how brazen this is and how increasingly [00:38:37] brazen the Democrats have become. That [00:38:40] can have a positive political effect for [00:38:43] them as well because it can demoralize [00:38:45] conservatives. So, yes, conservatives [00:38:47] are going to rally around Trump and [00:38:49] independents are going to rally around [00:38:50] Trump and everyone's going to be [00:38:51] outraged by this. But they did it. They [00:38:54] did it and they're getting away with it, [00:38:55] at least for now, just like they got [00:38:57] away with changing a lot of election [00:38:59] rules uh in in some cases in [00:39:01] contravention of state constitutions, [00:39:02] let's say, like in Pennsylvania. Just [00:39:04] like they got away with spying on the [00:39:05] Trump campaign, just like they got away [00:39:08] with undermining his administration and [00:39:09] arresting some of his associates, just [00:39:11] like they get away with this and that [00:39:12] and this and that. And they never pay a [00:39:14] consequence for it. We were talking [00:39:16] about the the crimes that Joe Biden has [00:39:18] apparently committed. Just two days ago, [00:39:20] he visited Halley Biden, the widow of [00:39:23] his son and former mistress of his other [00:39:25] son. Uh this was days before the Hunter [00:39:28] Biden gun crimes trial. Uh Halley Biden [00:39:31] is going to be an important witness in [00:39:33] the in the gun crimes trial because [00:39:35] allegedly she seems to have helped him [00:39:37] to commit those crimes. [00:39:40] Any reasonable person looking at that [00:39:41] meeting says that's witness tampering. [00:39:44] One of the things that you're accusing [00:39:45] Donald Trump of doing, you sitting [00:39:46] President Biden are doing yourself. And [00:39:49] what do they do? They shrug their [00:39:50] shoulders. He licks his ice cream cone [00:39:52] and they don't care. So yes, this will [00:39:54] mobilize public opinion against Biden. [00:39:57] The the really demoralizing question is [00:40:00] how much does public opinion still [00:40:02] matter in elections? [00:40:05] Yeah, Michael, as you say, you know, [00:40:06] when it comes to the glass being broken, [00:40:08] you can't unbreak this glass. It is [00:40:10] worth noting at this point that if Joe [00:40:12] Biden does not win this next election, [00:40:15] he will undoubtedly be prosecuted [00:40:17] undoubtedly. I mean, we have now this is [00:40:19] not glass that goes back in place. [00:40:21] I mean, the the reality is that he is [00:40:23] now running to basically keep himself [00:40:24] and his son out of jail. So you you you [00:40:27] now have a political system in which [00:40:30] people who are running for the [00:40:31] presidency have to first consider [00:40:33] whether they are going to be unfairly [00:40:34] brought up on charges and and then they [00:40:37] have to consider that if they lose [00:40:39] there's a good shot they go to jail. I [00:40:40] mean that that is where we currently [00:40:42] sit. Now listen there there are other [00:40:43] democracies around the world where there [00:40:45] have actually been sitting politicians [00:40:48] who have ended up in jail after losing [00:40:50] office after being elected to high [00:40:51] office or or whatever it is. But in [00:40:53] those particular cases, those cases [00:40:55] happen to be incredibly wellounded. What [00:40:57] makes this such a travesty is that it [00:40:59] was so incredibly not wellounded from [00:41:01] the very get-go, from the beginning. [00:41:03] This was the weakest of any of the cases [00:41:05] being brought against President Trump. [00:41:07] And what it really says is that if you [00:41:09] get the January 6th trial in Washington [00:41:11] DC, he'll get convicted there. [00:41:12] Yeah. [00:41:12] If you're in down in Florida in the [00:41:14] classified documents trial, probably a [00:41:15] hung jury. If you're over in Atlanta, [00:41:17] depending on the jury selection, [00:41:18] probably gets convicted. Right. This is [00:41:20] now a game of simple forum shopping. And [00:41:23] this happens all the time in civil [00:41:25] litigation. You try to find the forum [00:41:26] where the jury is going to be most most [00:41:29] available to you. But if you're a [00:41:30] national candidate like Donald Trump and [00:41:32] you're being brought up in four [00:41:33] different jurisdictions on four [00:41:35] different sets of charges, it's [00:41:37] completely dependent on the nature of [00:41:39] the population in the area in which you [00:41:42] are being charged, which is makes a [00:41:44] mockery of justice. That's not one [00:41:45] standard for all. That that is do they [00:41:47] like you? that essentially it makes it a [00:41:49] referendum on you electorally except if [00:41:51] you lose the election you go to jail. [00:41:53] Exactly. You're you're talking about the [00:41:55] chief skill in charge of a politician [00:41:58] which is to go out and get people to [00:41:59] like them. Well, we have a venue for [00:42:02] that. That's that takes place within the [00:42:04] legislature and the elections for [00:42:06] legislators and for the presidency. Uh [00:42:09] that's not supposed to take place in the [00:42:11] judicial branch. uh you know understood [00:42:14] from a a philosophical standpoint the [00:42:17] three branches of government are [00:42:18] supposed to correspond to the tripartite [00:42:20] soul. The legislature is supposed to be [00:42:22] the passionate, emotional, repetitive [00:42:24] part. The the executive is supposed to [00:42:26] be the spirited part, the thumotic part [00:42:28] of the soul. But the judicial part of [00:42:31] the government is supposed to be [00:42:32] logical, disinterested, cool lady [00:42:36] justice with a blindfold on. And I don't [00:42:38] think any person today, even the most [00:42:40] partisan Democrat, would be able to look [00:42:42] you in the face and tell you sincerely [00:42:44] that Lady Justice still has her [00:42:46] blindfold on. Not a chance. [00:42:49] Well, Michael Moles, go take a listen to [00:42:51] the Michael Moles show. Really, you [00:42:52] know, thanks for your commentary and [00:42:54] terrible day for the country. Uh try and [00:42:56] uh try and have a Mayflower cigar and [00:42:58] relax a little bit before you pop a [00:43:00] blood vessel over there. Yeah, I [00:43:02] appreciate the time. [00:43:02] Thanks, Ben. [00:43:04] Okay. Well, meanwhile, the Trump [00:43:06] campaign has dropped a new ad. Yeah. [00:43:09] Presumably theorizing that they were [00:43:10] going to be convicted, that Trump was [00:43:12] going to be convicted in this case. Here [00:43:14] is the new Trump campaign ad on this [00:43:16] basis. [00:43:23] Thank you for joining us here today. [00:43:27] Earlier this afternoon, Donald Trump was [00:43:29] arraigned by a Manhattan grand jury on [00:43:32] 34 felony counts. [00:43:34] This case is an abomination. You know, [00:43:36] it's obviously political. 7 years trying [00:43:38] to come up with this case. They're just [00:43:40] wrong on the law. [00:43:42] The only crime that Donald Trump is [00:43:43] [music] being prosecuted for is the [00:43:45] crime of running for president. [00:43:46] Political persecution at the highest [00:43:48] level. [00:43:49] They've quite frankly given up on trying [00:43:51] to beat him at the polls. Either going [00:43:52] to steal it or stop it by law firm. a [00:43:54] Democrat prosecutor elected on a get [00:43:57] Trump platform. [00:43:58] What's going on here is a disgusting [00:44:01] disgrace. It is war on Trump. It is war [00:44:04] on the Republican party. And it is a war [00:44:07] on a republic. [00:44:09] This case is the weakest case [music] [00:44:10] I've seen in 60 years of teaching, [00:44:12] practicing, and writing about criminal [00:44:14] law. And [00:44:14] I doubt the New York indictment would [00:44:16] have [music] been brought against a [00:44:17] defendant whose name was not Donald [00:44:19] Trump. this judge. I mean, you don't [00:44:22] need a prosecutor if you have a [music] [00:44:24] judge like this. This judge is not on [00:44:25] the level. [00:44:26] It's a terrible case, but the judge has [00:44:28] been pretty much a rubber stamp on [00:44:30] everything that [music] Greg has wanted [00:44:32] to do. [00:44:32] They they're perverting the system of [00:44:34] justice. You know, that's where the [00:44:36] danger lies. The corruption and [00:44:38] subversion of our institutions by the [00:44:40] left. [00:44:41] This is the Democrat's entire [music] [00:44:43] strategy to confine President Trump to a [00:44:45] dirty criminal courtroom and keep him [00:44:46] off campus. And this is going to be the [00:44:48] theme for Trump the rest of the election [00:44:50] cycle. So here's what you've got. If you [00:44:51] are Joe Biden, you have a DOJ that has [00:44:54] beowned itself in a thousand ways. You [00:44:57] have two separate courts of law in the [00:44:59] state of New York that have put forward [00:45:01] absurd, absurd verdicts. Absurd verdict [00:45:04] in this particular case and absurd [00:45:05] verdict in the civil case that was [00:45:07] brought by the woman that he supposedly [00:45:10] defamed and was sentenced to $500 [00:45:12] million or something ridiculous in terms [00:45:15] of defamation. So you have those two, [00:45:18] you have three separate federal cases [00:45:19] that are being brought by the DOJ in [00:45:21] three separate jurisdictions and Joe [00:45:24] Biden is sitting at the head being the [00:45:25] president and being terrible at it. You [00:45:27] have baked into the cake inflation. You [00:45:28] have a giant fire in the Middle East. [00:45:30] You have a giant fire in Ukraine. Total [00:45:34] dissolution of the social fabric of the [00:45:36] country. And this is supposed to make [00:45:38] things better. If you're Joe, what do [00:45:40] you run on if you're Joe Biden? You run [00:45:42] on the fact that Donald Trump is a very [00:45:43] bad man. He's going to do very bad [00:45:45] things. You just did the bad thing. You [00:45:48] and your friends just did the bad thing. [00:45:51] Leticia James, the AG in New York, [00:45:52] literally ran for office pledging that [00:45:54] she would get Donald Trump. Alvin Bragg [00:45:57] pledged that he would get Donald Trump. [00:46:00] Judge Merchin is a is a political actor. [00:46:03] Merrick Garland is a political actor. [00:46:06] Joe Biden is obviously a political [00:46:07] actor. Governor Risans of Florida put [00:46:10] out a statement. He says it's it is [00:46:12] often said that no one is above the law, [00:46:14] but it is also true that no one is below [00:46:16] the law. If the defendant were not [00:46:17] Donald Trump, this case would never have [00:46:18] been brought. The judge would never have [00:46:19] issued similar rulings and the jury [00:46:20] would never have returned a guilty [00:46:21] verdict. That is obviously true. [00:46:24] Ironically, Donald Trump once bragged [00:46:26] that he could shoot somebody on Fifth [00:46:28] Avenue and get away with it. Ironically, [00:46:30] in the city of New York, he would be [00:46:32] more likely to get away with murdering [00:46:34] someone on Fifth Avenue than with a [00:46:36] minor supposed business misdemeanor [00:46:39] because murder in New York is is [00:46:41] presumably okay. You can throw somebody [00:46:43] on the subway tracks in New York that [00:46:44] won't be prosecuted. Or or they put you [00:46:47] in jail for a moment, let you out [00:46:48] without bail. Or theoretically, you [00:46:50] could just be Donald Trump with business [00:46:52] interest in New York and they will come [00:46:53] after you. [00:46:55] The Trump website is experiencing so [00:46:57] much traffic right now that it has [00:46:58] crashed. So many people are attempting [00:47:00] to give to the Trump campaign that the [00:47:02] website has now timed out. It has now [00:47:05] crashed. [00:47:07] Now the top issue in this election has [00:47:09] now become should administrations and [00:47:12] political parties target their political [00:47:14] opponents for destruction. [00:47:16] This is open Watergate is what this is. [00:47:19] Watergate is considered the worst [00:47:20] scandal in American political history [00:47:22] because the Nixon administration, the [00:47:24] Nixon campaign green lit the bugging of [00:47:27] the George McGovern offices in 1972. [00:47:30] What if Nixon had just said, "I get to [00:47:32] do whatever I want to George McGovern, [00:47:34] include bringing him up on charges that [00:47:36] are completely specious, and then brag [00:47:38] about how he's a convicted felon." [00:47:40] What about that? [00:47:43] You want to talk about impacting an [00:47:44] election in dire and unforeseen ways? [00:47:46] This is that. How do you not suggest [00:47:49] that Joe Biden and his cronies are [00:47:51] tyrannical in going after Donald Trump [00:47:53] on a specious charge like this? And it [00:47:56] is utterly specious. [00:47:58] Again, this they didn't even go after [00:47:59] him on a January 6th charge on this one. [00:48:03] I mean, this is this isn't just playing [00:48:04] with fire. It's playing with [00:48:05] extraordinary fire because either way [00:48:06] this goes is a disaster area. Now, if [00:48:10] Donald Trump wins the election on this [00:48:11] basis, he could very well be serving as [00:48:13] president from a New York City [00:48:15] jailhouse. [00:48:17] And if Donald Trump loses, [00:48:19] if he loses, having been jailed by his [00:48:22] political opponents, [00:48:24] man oh man, things are going to get [00:48:26] extraordinarily ugly. Extraordinarily [00:48:29] ugly. [00:48:31] It's um [00:48:34] truly a sad day for the country. Truly [00:48:36] truly a sad day for for the country. [00:48:40] How are people going to respond in the [00:48:41] swing states? I can't imagine that they [00:48:43] are going to respond particularly well. [00:48:45] I cannot imagine that most Americans are [00:48:47] going to look at this and feel like [00:48:48] Donald Trump had this one coming. [00:48:52] And presumably all the Republicans are [00:48:54] thinking from here on in is that Donald [00:48:56] Trump should lock her up. That if Donald [00:48:57] Trump becomes president, he should do [00:48:58] exactly what Joe Biden just did. [00:49:02] If this is the new norm in America, that [00:49:03] is not good for the country. All righty, [00:49:06] folks. We'll be back here in short order [00:49:09] to bring you more. We will break more of [00:49:13] this down as the news breaks. An [00:49:15] unprecedented day in the country. Pray [00:49:18] for the republic because something truly [00:49:20] terrible just happened in New York City. [00:49:22] I'm Ben Shapiro. This is the Ben Shapiro [00:49:23] show.