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[00:00:00] That was another smooth number. And [00:00:02] let's check in on America right now. Are [00:00:05] innovative and [00:00:07] resourceful and so were [00:00:09] we. They never stopped thinking about [00:00:11] new ways to harm our country and our [00:00:13] people and neither do [00:00:17] we. That's a that was a great Bushism. [00:00:20] So that was a moment of zen from the [00:00:22] Bush administration and it has aged like [00:00:26] fine wine indeed. There is nothing we [00:00:28] won't do to harm our own people. [00:00:31] America, f yeah. So, welcome to State of [00:00:35] Play on Mint Press News. Tonight, we've [00:00:37] got an interesting, if unconventional, [00:00:41] episode for you. So, the first segment [00:00:43] we will be discussing Trump's [00:00:45] bombshell assertion that there will be [00:00:47] direct talks with the Iranian government [00:00:50] uh over the nuclear deal. Iran says the [00:00:52] talks will be indirect through Omani [00:00:54] mediators for internal political [00:00:56] tensions. The Iranian government will [00:00:58] probably end up keeping them indirect, [00:01:01] but the whole situation is completely [00:01:03] dynamic. As you know, the US and Iran [00:01:05] don't have formal relations. So, that [00:01:07] should be interesting and really haven't [00:01:09] had formal relations since uh the 2015 [00:01:13] uh nuclear deal the JCPOA that Obama uh [00:01:17] was trying to get through. So, we are [00:01:19] going to get into all that and the [00:01:21] second segment will be an interview with [00:01:22] my friend and colleague, former US Army [00:01:25] intelligence officer, Captain Josephine [00:01:27] Gilbo about her detention by Israeli [00:01:30] Defense Forces and how the Israeli [00:01:32] government is systematically destroying [00:01:34] the banks and credit unions in Palestine [00:01:37] as a means to starve, erase, and further [00:01:40] disenfranchise and marginalize [00:01:42] Palestinians in the West Bank. As you [00:01:45] know, the entire banking system has [00:01:47] collapsed in Gaza and it's pretty much [00:01:49] like now a barter [00:01:51] economy. Okay, so should be an [00:01:54] interesting episode. And now it's time [00:01:56] for the annoying Patreon plug. Mint [00:01:59] Press News is a small independent [00:02:01] newsroom with no corporate sponsors, [00:02:04] pretty much demonetized on all [00:02:06] platforms. So, we are on Patreon and you [00:02:10] know, any little bit helps. If you like [00:02:12] if you're picking up what we're putting [00:02:14] down and you like some sort of [00:02:15] independence watchdog uh journalism [00:02:18] reporting, you can go to the website, go [00:02:20] to the Patreon, read some [00:02:22] articles and help us out. if not because [00:02:25] you're getting nickeled and dimed during [00:02:27] this capitalist hellscape as we you know [00:02:30] continue to decline especially with oh [00:02:34] my god Trump put 104% or he's [00:02:37] threatening to put [00:02:39] 104% [00:02:41] tariffs on China. So the trade war has [00:02:44] begun and if you can't support us with5 [00:02:47] or $10 a month on Patreon we get it. [00:02:50] We're just glad you're here. So, if you [00:02:51] could like, share, and subscribe, [00:02:53] comment in the live chat or comment in [00:02:56] the comment section afterwards, that [00:02:58] would be great. It helps push this out [00:03:00] into the algorithm so it gets more eyes [00:03:02] on it. Again, we're just glad you're [00:03:05] here. So, as everybody is still [00:03:09] filtering into the episode, let's see [00:03:12] how disappointed and uncomfortable [00:03:15] Netanyahu was at the White House pref [00:03:17] press [00:03:18] conference with our orange [00:03:21] commanderin-chief yesterday. Again, uh [00:03:24] Netanyahu is supposed or was it I think [00:03:26] it was today. Yeah. Anyways, Netanyahu [00:03:28] is supposed to fly out back to Israel [00:03:31] tomorrow. There's also hilarious stories [00:03:33] where he added 250 miles to his plane [00:03:37] trip uh in order to avoid uh ICC [00:03:40] countries or having to land in ICC [00:03:42] related countries and fly over their [00:03:44] airspace. So that was funny. But [00:03:46] anyways, yes, he met with Donald uh [00:03:48] President Trump this week and it was a [00:03:51] very uncomfortable and disappointing [00:03:53] meeting for Netanyahu. And of course, I [00:03:56] don't like Trump, but I still relish uh [00:03:59] Netanyahu's discomfort. So, let's go [00:04:01] ahead and check that out while [00:04:02] everyone's still filtering into the live [00:04:05] about a whole new trade. Maybe not. [00:04:08] Maybe not. Don't forget, we help Israel [00:04:11] a lot. You know, we give Israel $4 [00:04:13] billion a year. That's a lot. [00:04:15] Congratulations, by the way. That's [00:04:17] pretty good. But we give Israel billions [00:04:20] of dollars a year. Billions. It's [00:04:24] I like how he just talks. Um, yeah, he's [00:04:28] not saying anything that's not factual. [00:04:31] From the Times of Israel, uh, the IDF is [00:04:33] fighting to get in the Gaza St. I myself [00:04:35] might be called up in a month. Do you [00:04:36] think that's the way to pressure Hamas [00:04:38] to get to a deal? And do you think [00:04:39] blocking humanitarian aid is also an [00:04:41] effective pressure? Well, you know how I [00:04:42] feel about the Gaza Strip. I think it's [00:04:45] an incredible piece of important real [00:04:48] estate and I think it's something that [00:04:51] we would be involved in. But uh you know [00:04:54] having a peace force like the United [00:04:56] States there controlling and owning the [00:04:58] Gaza Strip would be a good thing because [00:05:01] right now all it is is he's of course [00:05:03] talking about US boots on the ground. [00:05:05] For years and years, all I hear about is [00:05:08] killing and Hamas and problems. And if [00:05:11] you take the people, the Palestinians, [00:05:13] and move them around to different [00:05:14] countries, and you have plenty of [00:05:16] countries that will do that, and you [00:05:19] really have a freedom, a freedom zone. [00:05:22] You call it the freedom zone, a free [00:05:24] zone, a zone where people aren't going [00:05:26] to be killed every day. That's a hell of [00:05:27] a place. [00:05:29] I can't with these stream of [00:05:30] consciousness. So, so Gaza is going to [00:05:33] become a freedom zone with US boots on [00:05:35] the ground. Okay. Well, never heard that [00:05:38] before in the past 20 years of the [00:05:40] global war on terror. You know what I [00:05:42] call it? A great location that nobody [00:05:44] wants to live in because they really [00:05:46] don't. And when they had good li when [00:05:48] they have good living, real living where [00:05:51] Hamas and all of the the problems they [00:05:53] have, the the level of death on the Gaza [00:05:56] Strip is just incredible. And I've said [00:05:59] it. I I don't understand why Israel ever [00:06:02] gave it up. Israel owned it. It wasn't [00:06:04] this man. So I can say it. He wouldn't [00:06:07] uh because it was causing too many [00:06:09] problems. Because there was too much [00:06:10] attrition. Yeah. They they didn't give [00:06:13] it up because they wanted to. They gave [00:06:14] it up because it was unsustainable for [00:06:16] them to keep defending uh their [00:06:19] settlements and dealing with popular [00:06:21] uprisings. They given it up. I know it [00:06:23] very well. There's no way. They took [00:06:26] oceanfront property and they gave it to [00:06:28] people for peace. How did that work out? [00:06:31] Not good. [00:06:34] Okay. Well, that was a that was a nice [00:06:36] little rant, but the entire time [00:06:37] Netanyahu was just like, I'm just going [00:06:39] to have to sit here and listen to it. Uh [00:06:41] he was clearly looked very uncomfortable [00:06:43] when Trump's like, four billion, it's a [00:06:45] lot. You're very lucky. And of course, [00:06:48] you know, they feel like they are [00:06:51] entitled to that, of course. So anyways [00:06:54] guys, we got the two segments here. If [00:06:56] you're just filtering in, the first half [00:06:58] of this episode's going to be on Iran [00:07:00] and direct talks or indirect talks about [00:07:03] the nuclear deal between Tran and the [00:07:06] Trump administration. The second half [00:07:07] we're going to be talking to Captain [00:07:09] Josephine Gilbo, [00:07:10] former military intelligence officer who [00:07:14] was questioned at length by an Israeli [00:07:16] Defense Force intelligence officer when [00:07:18] she tried to get into the West Bank. [00:07:21] We're also going to be talking about the [00:07:22] West Bank a little bit and the second [00:07:24] half is an interview. But anyways, let's [00:07:27] begin with Iran and let's listen like [00:07:31] let's let's start with some basic bare [00:07:34] bones BBC reporting. Back to BBC News. [00:07:39] Now, Russia has welcomed news that the [00:07:40] US and Iran are to meet for indirect [00:07:43] talks on Thran's nuclear program. The [00:07:45] Kremlin says it's long supported a [00:07:47] diplomatic settlement to the dispute. [00:07:49] Iranian state media says indirect talks [00:07:52] with the US will be held in Oman on [00:07:54] Saturday, led by Iran's foreign minister [00:07:56] and President Trump's special envoy. [00:07:59] While announcing the meeting during [00:08:00] Benjamin Netanyahu's White House visit [00:08:02] yesterday, Donald Trump said Iran is [00:08:04] going to be in great danger if talks [00:08:07] don't go well. We have a very big [00:08:10] meeting and we'll see what can happen. [00:08:13] And I think everybody agrees that uh [00:08:15] doing a deal would be preferable uh to [00:08:19] doing the obvious. And we're dealing [00:08:21] with them directly. You know, a lot of [00:08:23] people say, "Oh, maybe you're going [00:08:24] through surrogates or you're not dealing [00:08:26] directly. You're dealing through other [00:08:27] countries." No, we're dealing with them [00:08:29] directly. And uh maybe a deal is going [00:08:31] to be made. That'll be great. Going to [00:08:33] be it'll be really great for Iran. I can [00:08:36] tell you that. Wow. Yeah. This is [00:08:39] actually interesting because again, [00:08:41] nothing he's saying is untrue here. Uh [00:08:45] but of course, Trump has a complicated [00:08:48] history with Iran. He says they're going [00:08:49] to be dealing with them directly. The uh [00:08:51] Iranian foreign minister says they are [00:08:54] not, but we're going to get into that [00:08:55] shortly. I'll be speaking to Dr. Roxan [00:08:57] Farman Farian, a lecturer in [00:09:00] international relations at Cambridge [00:09:01] University. This was her assessment on [00:09:04] the likelihood of those talks being [00:09:06] successful. I think they're in better uh [00:09:09] position than they have been in the past [00:09:11] under Biden for example when the uh [00:09:14] talks did did not go anywhere. I think [00:09:16] Trump is very motivated to try to open [00:09:19] up the economy of uh Iran which has been [00:09:23] uh very much in uh a backwater for so [00:09:26] many years and that would because of US [00:09:29] sanctions. And again, uh, as as Trump [00:09:33] started this maximum pressure campaign [00:09:35] on Iran after he tore up the nuclear [00:09:37] deal and started this mass again, [00:09:39] maximum pressure [00:09:40] campaign, it just it literally [00:09:44] decimated, not decimated because [00:09:46] decimated means one in 10, but it [00:09:48] literally tore apart the middle class in [00:09:51] Iran. So now there's complete unrest, a [00:09:54] hardline government, unhappy population. [00:09:57] And so they keep having to drill down on [00:09:59] violence and Iran has its own problems. [00:10:01] Uh but yes, you know, it's been a [00:10:05] backwater because of US sanctions. So [00:10:07] Iran definitely wants a better economic [00:10:09] relations with with the United States [00:10:11] and a relief of sanctions 100%. [00:10:14] Certainly gain him the uh accolades of [00:10:17] of uh changing a relationship that has [00:10:20] been hostile and uh very cold with the [00:10:24] United States after 45 years. So if he [00:10:27] is able to uh establish a deal that [00:10:31] really lifts sanctions um and I think [00:10:34] the Iranians are quite keen for that [00:10:37] because their currency is plummeting and [00:10:40] their economy is in very bad shape. [00:10:42] Inflation is rampant. So I think they [00:10:45] are more open as well than they have [00:10:48] been for some years. A quick answer to [00:10:50] this question. How close is Thran to any [00:10:52] sort of nuclear device? [00:10:54] Well, it's promote it's producing more [00:10:58] uh advanced enrichment of uh nuclear [00:11:00] material than it has been before, which [00:11:02] is worrying. On the other hand, it has [00:11:05] consistently claimed it is not making a [00:11:07] a nuclear weapon, and most experts agree [00:11:10] it's not, and that its main reason for [00:11:12] the nuclear program is to use leverage [00:11:15] to uh lift its sanctions. [00:11:19] Yeah. Also, um it's a civilian nuclear [00:11:22] program, which you know, you're entitled [00:11:24] to have under international law. So, [00:11:28] that's another aspect that a lot of [00:11:30] Western commentators don't bring up. [00:11:32] Countries are allowed to have nuclear [00:11:33] programs. Um, one of the only reasons we [00:11:36] don't is because of uh uh its [00:11:39] relationship with Israel and Israel's [00:11:42] relationship in the region. And if you [00:11:44] want a prol nuclear dep n n n n n n n n [00:11:46] n n n n n n n n n n n [00:11:46] non-prololiferation uh treaty to not [00:11:49] have Israel involved in it when we know [00:11:51] they have nukes is kind of [00:11:55] uh kind of wild. [00:11:59] Yes. Western hypocrisy at its finest. [00:12:01] They can have nukes but no one else can. [00:12:04] You know, I read in Foreign Policy [00:12:05] magazine when I was still in the army. [00:12:06] It was like [00:12:07] 2010. Uh, one guy had an interesting [00:12:10] argument that, you know, nukes generally [00:12:12] have a stabilizing influence on the [00:12:15] region. We're not going to get into [00:12:17] that, but it was an interesting article. [00:12:19] I'll try to I'll try to find it and put [00:12:21] it into the comments. It was written in [00:12:23] 2011, and it was about Iran getting a [00:12:25] nuclear weapon, and it was a pretty [00:12:28] non-neervative perspective. [00:12:30] So, anyways, guys, let's do it. The [00:12:34] breakdown. So, President Trump surprised [00:12:37] the world Monday when he said the United [00:12:38] States was conducting direct talks with [00:12:40] Iran over its nuclear program and that [00:12:42] high level negotiations would take place [00:12:45] on Saturday. Quote, I think everybody [00:12:47] agrees that doing a deal would be [00:12:49] preferable to doing the [00:12:52] obvious. I guess the obvious means bomb [00:12:55] them. Is that I I assume that's what he [00:12:57] means by the obvious. Trump said before [00:13:00] warning that Iran will be in great [00:13:01] danger and that uh should diplomacy [00:13:03] fail. What we know is that Axios News [00:13:06] reported today that the Middle East [00:13:08] envoy Steve Witoff uh will lead the US [00:13:11] delegation for talks set to take place [00:13:13] in Oman. Again, for some history guys, [00:13:16] Oman has acted as a traditional mediator [00:13:20] between the United States and Iran in [00:13:24] the past. While Trump repeated the talks [00:13:26] will be direct, Tran says negotiations [00:13:28] will be indirect though through Omani [00:13:31] mediators. Writing about the upcoming [00:13:34] talks on ex Iranian foreign minister [00:13:37] Abbas Arag. I went to language [00:13:40] school for Persian but it's been so [00:13:42] long. Uh we'll just say the Iranian [00:13:46] foreign minister. Wow, Greg, that's [00:13:47] embarrassing. Uh, it's as m quote, "It's [00:13:51] as much an [00:13:52] opportunity as it is a test. The ball is [00:13:56] in America's court." He just wrote an [00:13:58] op-ed in the Washington Post, which [00:14:00] we're going to look at in a couple [00:14:01] minutes. Essentially, Iran will play [00:14:03] ball for sanctions relief if they're [00:14:05] allowed to keep their civil nuclear [00:14:06] program. But how do Netanyahu and the [00:14:09] Washington bomb Iran neocons figure into [00:14:13] this landscape? you know, the whole [00:14:14] Israel neocon diplomatic strategy, which [00:14:17] Trump has kind of tacically supported. I [00:14:19] mean, probably more than that if you [00:14:21] looked at its his last administration, [00:14:24] demands a complete dismantling of Iran's [00:14:27] nuclear program, which is a complete [00:14:29] non-starter for Iran. And that's exactly [00:14:32] why people like Netanyahu and John [00:14:36] Bolton and all the classic neocons like [00:14:38] Wolawitz have always supported it [00:14:41] precisely because it can't. and won't [00:14:44] work. And in a and in terms of a lack of [00:14:47] a diplomatic solution, because if that's [00:14:50] how they frame the terms of the [00:14:51] diplomatic negotiations, well, Iran will [00:14:54] decline. They get to bomb them. So [00:14:56] anyways, that's why neocons have always [00:14:58] had the hardline position, no nuclear [00:15:00] program specifically because they know [00:15:02] that that is a non-starter for tan. So, [00:15:05] the US and Iran, you know, held indirect [00:15:08] talks, just for some uh context, during [00:15:11] former President Joe Biden's term, but [00:15:13] they made little if any progress. I [00:15:15] think um the uh the commentator on the [00:15:19] BBC just mentioned that. So, the last [00:15:20] known direct negotiations, as I brought [00:15:22] up earlier, between the two governments [00:15:24] were under then President Barack Obama, [00:15:27] who spearheaded the 2015 international [00:15:30] nuclear deal that Trump later abandoned. [00:15:32] So warnings by Trump of military action [00:15:36] against Iran had jangled already tense [00:15:39] nerves across the Middle East after open [00:15:41] warfare in Gaza, Lebanon, military [00:15:44] strikes in Yemen. Looks like we just [00:15:46] dropped a bunch of civilians [00:15:49] there. Um a change of leadership in [00:15:52] Syria and you know Israeli Syrian [00:15:55] exchanges on the border. So like the [00:15:57] entire region's still just like it has [00:16:00] been since October 7th on on the verge [00:16:02] of lighting up. [00:16:04] So a a non [00:16:07] um a a a deal here would actually [00:16:11] completely deescalate a lot of these [00:16:13] regions. Of course it wouldn't stop the [00:16:15] Houthies because the Iranians don't [00:16:16] really control them, but it it would [00:16:19] definitely calm down tensions throughout [00:16:21] West Asia. So direct talks [00:16:25] um would not occur without the explicit [00:16:28] approval and they will not occur without [00:16:30] the explicit approval of Ayatollah Kmeni [00:16:33] who in February said negotiations with [00:16:35] the US were not smart wise or honorable. [00:16:40] So after Trump spoke, a senior Iranian [00:16:42] official speaking on the condition of [00:16:43] anonymity, and this is according to [00:16:46] Reuters, quote, "The talks will not be [00:16:48] direct. It will be with Oman's [00:16:50] mediation." Unquote. Oman, which [00:16:52] maintains good relation. This why [00:16:54] they're the mediators between the US and [00:16:55] Iran has been this longtime channel. So [00:16:58] is Iran's nor news affiliated with the [00:17:02] country's top security body described [00:17:04] Trump's statements about a planned [00:17:05] direct meeting as a part of a quote [00:17:08] psychological operation aimed at [00:17:11] influencing domestic and internal public [00:17:14] opinion unquote. Yes, of course. They [00:17:18] think uh a lot of the hardliners in Iran [00:17:20] definitely see Trump saying this as a as [00:17:24] a scop to undermine a pretty unpopular [00:17:28] government for a lot of people within [00:17:30] Iran and they are very very concerned [00:17:32] about internal security right now. So a [00:17:34] second Iranian official also according [00:17:36] to Reuters speaking on the condition of [00:17:39] anonymity said over the weekend there [00:17:40] was possibly a window of around two [00:17:43] months two months to reach a deal. makes [00:17:46] sense. Citing worries that Iran's [00:17:48] longtime foe, Israel, might launch its [00:17:51] own attack if talks took longer. So [00:17:54] Netanyahu has shown little support for [00:17:57] US negotiations with Iran. Said if [00:18:00] diplomacy could prevent Tran from ever [00:18:02] getting nuclear weapons in a quote full [00:18:04] way the way it was done in [00:18:06] Libya, it's a whole another thing. I [00:18:09] think that would be a good thing [00:18:10] unquote. Okay, so real quick, I just [00:18:12] wanted to bring this up. So, as and this [00:18:15] just happened and it was made in Hebrew. [00:18:18] Uh, and I couldn't get the subtitles in [00:18:20] English, but um, we're going to look at [00:18:22] a piece real quick by Barack [00:18:25] Ravid. He is a reporter for Axios News. [00:18:30] He's also not a fan of Netanyahu. Uh, [00:18:34] this was from a couple like six hours [00:18:37] ago. Uh, again, the video itself is in [00:18:40] Hebrew. Uh Netanyahu said in a video [00:18:42] released by his office before departing [00:18:44] Washington back to Israel that a nuclear [00:18:47] deal with Iran would be acceptable only [00:18:50] if it included the explosion of all of [00:18:54] Iran's nuclear facilities and quote the [00:18:57] dismantling of all equipment under [00:19:00] American supervision and implemented by [00:19:02] the Americans. Uh he noted that if that [00:19:05] does not happen and Iran drags out the [00:19:08] talks, a military option should be used. [00:19:11] Everyone understands that, says [00:19:13] Netanyahu. I discussed this at length [00:19:15] with President Trump. Now, we don't know [00:19:17] if that's true or what uh he actually uh [00:19:20] discussed with President Trump. But [00:19:23] yes, Netanyahu again, how many times [00:19:26] have we been saying this? It's his [00:19:28] lifelong political fever dream to get [00:19:31] the United States to bomb Iran on behalf [00:19:35] of Israel. So during and we have to [00:19:38] remember that that's just of course what [00:19:40] Netanyahu says and this is why Reuters [00:19:43] was quoting an unofficial source within [00:19:47] the Iranian government's familiar with [00:19:49] uh the policy that you know if they they [00:19:51] feel like if they if the talks get [00:19:53] stretched out beyond two months there's [00:19:56] a concern that Israel will take [00:19:58] preemptive action and force a regional [00:20:01] confrontation. [00:20:03] Now, that's a valid concern. Now, during [00:20:06] his 2017 2121 term, Trump withdrew the [00:20:10] US from the deal uh and the JCPOA and [00:20:14] you know, the world power is designed to [00:20:16] curb Iran's sensitive nuclear work in [00:20:18] exchange for sanctions relief. Trump [00:20:20] also reimposed sweeping sanctions and [00:20:23] now maybe those might get repealed. [00:20:26] Since then, Iran has far surpassed that [00:20:28] deal's limits on uranium enrichment in [00:20:31] order to use it as leverage for [00:20:33] sanctions relief. So, however, these are [00:20:37] interesting times because Netanyahu is [00:20:39] leaving the US tomorrow after a [00:20:41] disappointing visit to the White House [00:20:43] where Trump refused to remove the 17% [00:20:47] tariff on Israeli goods. Direct talks [00:20:50] with Iran is also something he doesn't [00:20:52] want. But real quick before we get into [00:20:55] it, let's look at what the uh Iran's [00:20:57] foreign minister says. So he published a [00:21:01] very important op-ed in the Washington [00:21:02] Post today. If you read it, you'll see [00:21:04] for the first time Iran is signaling its [00:21:08] openness for doing direct trade with [00:21:10] Iran and US companies engaging with the [00:21:14] Iranian economy. A quote trillion dollar [00:21:17] opportunity he calls it. It seems like [00:21:19] actually the Iranians because this is [00:21:21] his foreign minister. This is like [00:21:23] official U uh Iranian policy messaging. [00:21:27] It seems the Iranians are speaking [00:21:29] Trump's language and they're doing it [00:21:30] for a reason. You know, free trade um [00:21:34] million trillion dollar opportunity. So, [00:21:37] who knows what's going to happen. It's [00:21:38] really dynamic. However, it's a really [00:21:41] important oped, I [00:21:43] think. But the Washington [00:21:46] Post is paywalled. So, we're gonnahead [00:21:49] go ahead and pull this up for a second. [00:21:51] So, the op-ed, Iran's foreign minister, [00:21:53] the ball is in America's court. I [00:21:55] referenced this twice in this episode [00:21:57] already. So, it says, and I'm just going [00:21:59] to read a couple paragraphs. In recent [00:22:00] weeks, a series of messages and letters [00:22:02] have been exchanged between Iran and the [00:22:04] United States. Contrary contrary to some [00:22:06] interpretations, these communications, [00:22:08] at least on our side, have been neither [00:22:10] symbolic nor ceremonial. We view them as [00:22:13] representing a genuine attempt to [00:22:15] clarify positions and open a window [00:22:17] towards diplomacy. [00:22:20] Um, and this is where he directly [00:22:22] contradicts President Donald Trump. [00:22:25] Regarding Monday's comments by Trump, [00:22:27] Iran is ready to engage in earnest in [00:22:30] earnest and with a view to seal a deal. [00:22:32] We will meet in Oman on Saturday for [00:22:35] indirect negotiations. It is much an [00:22:37] opportunity as it is a test. The model [00:22:39] of engagement we propose is not novel. [00:22:42] The United States itself is [00:22:44] intermediating indirect talks between [00:22:46] Russia and Ukraine. a much more intense [00:22:49] and complex conflict [00:22:52] essentially. Okay. He's also led talks [00:22:54] before. Um pursuing indirect [00:22:58] negotiations is not a tactic or [00:22:59] reflection of ideology but a strategic [00:23:02] choice rooted in experience. We face a [00:23:05] significant wall of mistrust and harbor [00:23:07] serious doubts about the sincerity of [00:23:09] intentions made worse by US insistence [00:23:12] on resuming the maximum pressure policy [00:23:15] to prior to any diplomatic interaction. [00:23:19] Uh to move forward today, we first need [00:23:21] to agree that there can be no military [00:23:23] option, let alone a military solution. [00:23:25] President Trump clearly recognizes this [00:23:27] reality in urging a ceasefire as the [00:23:30] first course of action to end the [00:23:32] Ukraine conflict. So where is Yeah, we [00:23:37] cannot imagine President Trump wanting [00:23:38] to become another US president mired in [00:23:40] a catastrophic war in the Middle East. [00:23:43] Um yeah, so everyone's basically [00:23:46] uh posturing right now. We're massing [00:23:48] forces out of air base Diego Garcia. [00:23:50] we've uh expanded by 15% the amount of [00:23:54] assets within the entire region. Then [00:23:56] later on in this article [00:23:59] um he goes through the history of the [00:24:01] nuclear deal. It's actually uh quite [00:24:04] good. So may I think if you can find a [00:24:07] way to steal a Washington Post article, [00:24:09] you can definitely do that. Um what was [00:24:13] I looking for? Oh, he does talk about [00:24:15] the trillion dollar opportunity, but [00:24:19] essentially the ball is in America's [00:24:21] court. If it seeks a genuine diplomatic [00:24:23] resolution, we have already shown the [00:24:24] way. If instead it seeks to impose its [00:24:26] will through pressure, it must know [00:24:27] this. The Iranian people respond [00:24:29] decisively to the language of force and [00:24:31] threat in a unified way. There is a [00:24:33] chance for the U United States finally [00:24:35] to have a president of peace. Whether or [00:24:36] not to seize that opportunity, it's a [00:24:39] choice. Um, okay. [00:24:42] A couple things about the general [00:24:44] dynamic between the Iran a hardline [00:24:47] Iranian government and the traditionally [00:24:50] warlike neocon government in the United [00:24:52] States. [00:24:53] It's to be sure like the Iranian [00:24:56] government is not angelic. Uh but the [00:24:58] point really stands that uh essentially [00:25:03] peace through strength. Trump's peace [00:25:06] through strength doctrine u that he [00:25:09] campaigned on that Hegsth our secretary [00:25:11] of defense always quotes peace through [00:25:13] strength when has that worked in the uh [00:25:19] when has that ever worked in the history [00:25:21] of US involvement in [00:25:24] um in the Middle East in West Asia the [00:25:27] aggressive posturing to highlight [00:25:29] relative strength has done nothing to [00:25:32] prevent the U uh United States's [00:25:34] political or geopolitical adversaries [00:25:37] from working to achieve their interest [00:25:38] even in di uh even if diametrically [00:25:41] opposed to Washington. So the Middle [00:25:44] East is failed uh a wash with failed [00:25:47] examples of this dynamic from Iraq to [00:25:49] Syria to Palestine to Yemen. Posturing [00:25:53] strength posturing has always failed and [00:25:56] it is failing. Syri Syria's Assad regime [00:25:59] did not fall because of US sanctions, a [00:26:01] military presence or the covert arming [00:26:04] of opposition militias. Rather, like [00:26:07] Damascus responded to those US actions [00:26:09] by committing to destabilizing regional [00:26:12] actions, you know, captagon drug trade [00:26:16] uh to pressure US regional partners. Uh [00:26:19] yeah, it's [00:26:21] just typical neoconservative talking [00:26:24] points typically argue that [00:26:25] interventional policies do not go far [00:26:27] enough, often due to leaders lacking [00:26:29] resolve. You know, you know, we didn't [00:26:32] defeat the Taliban because, you know, we [00:26:34] lacked resolve. We did, you know, it's [00:26:36] it's the um the sunk cost fallacy, [00:26:39] right? [00:26:40] So, I don't know in the the entire [00:26:43] dynamic, right? [00:26:47] It it's hawkish. Tran has for decades [00:26:50] rejected hawkish attempts at diplomacy, [00:26:52] including sanctions, assassinations, [00:26:55] internal piracy to change its behavior, [00:26:58] developing increasingly convoluted and [00:27:00] dangerous deterrence policies against uh [00:27:03] across the Middle East. In this case, [00:27:05] Washington's use of strength has [00:27:07] emboldened Iranian hardliners and vice [00:27:10] versa. and their hardliners have [00:27:13] reinforced our neocons with a kind of [00:27:15] like death spiral of increasingly [00:27:18] violent interactions across a swath of [00:27:21] countries in the region. So this whole [00:27:24] peace through strength thing is absurd. [00:27:28] The entire policy is absurd. So what [00:27:30] he's saying um while I do agree and I do [00:27:33] have a lot of hope that this can be [00:27:37] resolved through uh actual diplomatic [00:27:40] channels, he makes it see Trump makes it [00:27:42] seems there going to be direct talks. [00:27:44] They're going to work it out otherwise [00:27:45] there's going to the hammer is going to [00:27:47] come down. It's a dynamic situation. No [00:27:49] one can really uh say what's going to [00:27:52] happen for sure. There's mixed messaging [00:27:54] from the Trump administration about [00:27:55] direct talks. Uh the Iranian government [00:27:58] says indirect talks. Um you know and the [00:28:02] P posesian government is a reform [00:28:05] government and you know they are but [00:28:08] Peskian's also in a very weak place [00:28:11] politically and nothing's going to [00:28:12] happen without the overriding approval [00:28:14] of Ayatollah Kmeni who is also beholden [00:28:17] to and is kind of a hardliner. [00:28:21] So hopefully this can get resolved in [00:28:23] two months before Israel does something [00:28:25] crazy. But that's where things stand [00:28:27] right now. And I just want everybody to [00:28:29] remember and I invite everybody to [00:28:31] remember that Donald Trump talks a big [00:28:35] game. He said before I even get into [00:28:38] office, the Russia and Ukraine war will [00:28:42] be resolved or at least have a [00:28:44] ceasefire. Now he's abandoned that [00:28:46] complete talking point. Right. U I would [00:28:49] be surprised if there was a ceasefire [00:28:52] by by the summer. Hopefully there's some [00:28:55] sort of resolution by before the winter [00:28:58] sets in again in next year. Um, but who [00:29:02] knows? So, we take everything with a [00:29:04] grain of salt, but these are some of the [00:29:05] complexities going into the Iran deal. [00:29:08] And there's mixed messaging. So, hope [00:29:10] that was helpful. But again, yes, uh, [00:29:13] there's supposed to be a reform [00:29:14] government in Iran that wants uh a [00:29:17] relief of sanctions. Also, hardliners in [00:29:20] Iran want a relief of sanctions. [00:29:22] Everybody wants it. But of course uh I [00:29:24] was interviewing Dr. Assal Rod yesterday [00:29:27] uh last week and you know the US and [00:29:29] Iran are kind of doing this thing like [00:29:31] we have to be strong. No, we have to be [00:29:33] strong and like going back and forth. So [00:29:35] I have always said that I was always [00:29:38] editorialized and for the past like [00:29:40] since 2009 since I was started to get [00:29:43] involved in this stuff that the US would [00:29:45] never bomb Iran. I don't think the [00:29:47] circumstances for that are ripe yet. So, [00:29:52] we're going to hope for the best and [00:29:54] hopefully something can be resolved. A [00:29:56] relief of sanctions, a deescalation of [00:29:59] hostilities between Iran and America, [00:30:03] but of course, everything could go [00:30:04] sideways at a moment's uh notice, [00:30:06] especially with actors like Benjamin [00:30:09] Netanyahu. So, yeah, this is more of [00:30:13] like a like all the analysts I know are [00:30:16] just kind of like, yeah, uh we'll see, I [00:30:19] guess. But uh one takeaway is that this [00:30:22] is the closest we've kind of ever seen [00:30:24] it to a relief of sanctions since like [00:30:28] 2015. And so if Trump it could be [00:30:31] amanable to like having a business [00:30:33] relationship and opening the markets to [00:30:35] Iran Iran, uh it has the biggest chance [00:30:38] of happening right now. So hoping for [00:30:41] the best. And now we are going into our [00:30:43] second segment transitioning to the West [00:30:45] Bank and what's going on in Israel. This [00:30:48] interview was recorded for security [00:30:50] purposes last week and not released [00:30:54] until both of the guests were done [00:30:57] traveling. Um, our our Palestinian guest [00:31:00] rarely speaks English, so bear with them [00:31:04] and we're going to uh get right into it. [00:31:08] Hope you guys [00:31:13] enjoy. Tonight for our main segment on [00:31:16] State of Play on Mint Press News, we're [00:31:18] going to be conducting a pre-recorded [00:31:20] interview about the ongoing and little [00:31:22] reported situation unfolding in West [00:31:25] Bank. Now that the ceasefire in Gaza has [00:31:28] been broken and atrocity upon atrocity [00:31:31] continues to mount. For security [00:31:33] purposes, this interview will not be [00:31:35] released until Monday, April 7th. We're [00:31:38] going to try to do this in kind of an [00:31:40] evergreen fashion. Uh so the news cycle [00:31:43] doesn't decay. But this situation [00:31:46] unfortunately is not going to get better [00:31:48] and anytime soon. So we do have a call [00:31:51] to action at the end and I hope you [00:31:52] stick around for that as well. Today we [00:31:56] are joined by what will be a familiar [00:31:58] face to some of you, Captain Josephine [00:32:00] Gilbo, a former US Army all source [00:32:03] intelligence analyst. Her mobilizations [00:32:05] include Operation Enduring Freedom, [00:32:08] which I unfortunately was a part of as [00:32:09] well, where she supported cyerspace [00:32:11] operations for US Cyber Command and the [00:32:14] Cyber National Mission Force. She's [00:32:16] earned a bunch of Army Commenation [00:32:19] medals for her role in mission success [00:32:21] and since her resignation from the [00:32:23] military in 2023, Josephine has been [00:32:26] advocating for peace in the Middle East. [00:32:29] Uh we are also joined by Ahmed Tzi, an [00:32:32] academic expert and Palestinian from the [00:32:36] West Bank with various degrees from [00:32:37] Alcudz University, Hebron University, [00:32:40] and a PhD in strategic management from [00:32:43] Lincoln University College. He is the [00:32:45] president of the Federal Trade Union and [00:32:48] bank systems over Palestine, both West [00:32:51] Bank and Gaza. He travels globally [00:32:54] meeting with international members of [00:32:56] the Federal Trade Union with a most [00:32:58] recent trip to Belfast, Ireland, and [00:33:00] speaks about the ongoing economic [00:33:02] effects of the occupation on Palestine. [00:33:05] He has firsthand experience living in [00:33:07] his entire life under Israeli occupation [00:33:10] inside of the village of Hebrron. Thank [00:33:13] you so much for taking the time and [00:33:15] joining us here tonight on State of [00:33:17] Plan. Thank you, Greg, for having us. [00:33:21] So, uh, as I understand it, you are both [00:33:24] Oh my [00:33:25] god. Edit at [00:33:29] 217 3 I. Sorry, I got a phone [00:33:34] call. As I understand it, you are both [00:33:37] in the region at this time. Um, Josie, [00:33:41] before we we get into uh Ahmed's piece, [00:33:44] I was hoping because you you tried to [00:33:46] tra travel from Jordan into the West [00:33:49] Bank and you had a little incident. I [00:33:52] was hoping you could describe that for [00:33:54] the audience just so they can get a an [00:33:56] idea of what apartheid looks from the [00:33:58] perspective of outside foreigners. [00:34:02] Yes. Um, thank you for having me again, [00:34:04] Greg. Um, several weeks ago I came to [00:34:08] the Middle East in order to enter into [00:34:11] Palestine and the Holy Land to visit [00:34:14] some of the Christian holy sites. This [00:34:17] was my Christian pilgrimage. And um I [00:34:21] flew into Jordan and uh try crossing [00:34:24] through the King Hussein crossing. And I [00:34:27] think it's important to note for anyone [00:34:29] that doesn't understand, once you cross [00:34:31] from Jordan into the West Bank, [00:34:33] Palestine, there's roughly a mile of um [00:34:37] secure fences, electric fences, um [00:34:40] Israeli government uh walking around [00:34:43] with firearms. Uh there are uh [00:34:46] observation points um throughout this [00:34:49] mileong uh car ride that or bus ride [00:34:52] that you take from the Jordan [00:34:53] immigration and customs to uh Palestine, [00:34:57] but it's the Israeli immigration and [00:34:59] customs which is who you will meet with. [00:35:02] So none of this is operated or [00:35:04] controlled by Palestinian authority or [00:35:07] by Palestinian police. All of this is [00:35:09] completely occupied and controlled by [00:35:11] the Israeli government. Once I arrived [00:35:14] to the uh Israeli immigration and [00:35:17] customs, I gave them my passport and my [00:35:20] itinerary of the locations that I was [00:35:23] planning to go to each day as well as [00:35:25] which hotels that I was planning to stay [00:35:27] at. And the immigration officer started [00:35:31] asking me questions and um he uh [00:35:35] something must have flagged his his mind [00:35:38] and he decided that I uh I couldn't [00:35:40] cross in this moment and they wanted to [00:35:42] do further questioning. So they took me [00:35:44] into another room and someone else came [00:35:48] uh another immigration officer came and [00:35:49] started asking me questions about being [00:35:52] a Christian. um my hi historically, you [00:35:55] know, I'm a a a Catholic born and [00:35:58] raised. And so I told him this. He asked [00:36:00] me questions. What did it mean for me to [00:36:03] visit the holy sites? Of course, for me, [00:36:05] this was easy to answer as a someone [00:36:07] who's been a devout Catholic my whole [00:36:09] life. Of course, it's um it would be an [00:36:12] honor to be able to visit the holy sites [00:36:14] of uh Jesus. And um he wasn't satisfied [00:36:18] with these answers. So now they are [00:36:20] going to detain me. Uh, and they move me [00:36:23] into an interrogation room where I have [00:36:26] to take my phone out and another officer [00:36:30] um, a part of the Israeli government [00:36:32] starts asking me questions more [00:36:34] personally about my background, my job, [00:36:37] my family, and she starts asking me to [00:36:41] open up apps in my phone. Uh she asked [00:36:44] me to open up my contacts in my phone uh [00:36:46] and type in the area code 972 [00:36:50] uh which is the uh area code for [00:36:53] Palestinians to see if I had any [00:36:56] contacts that were Palestinian. She [00:36:58] asked me about my opinion of the war and [00:37:02] what I thought the resolution should be, [00:37:04] which I thought was odd. But she also [00:37:06] asked me uh about my experience in the [00:37:09] military because when she asked what my [00:37:12] job was, I said to her, I was in the [00:37:14] military 17 years. She asked me what I [00:37:17] did there and I said I was an [00:37:18] intelligence officer. But then she [00:37:20] started asking me about my assignments [00:37:22] as an intelligence officer. And this is [00:37:26] when right four or five Yeah. four or [00:37:30] five times I had to say to her that what [00:37:34] she's asking me, the questions that [00:37:36] she's asking me, she is going to force [00:37:38] me to commit espionage against my [00:37:40] country. And I and I said to her, "This [00:37:43] is absolutely ridiculous considering we [00:37:46] are allies that you would want me to uh [00:37:49] reveal to you classified information [00:37:51] about my job as an intelligence [00:37:53] officer." There were several times she [00:37:55] wanted to she wanted to take my phone. I [00:37:58] would not let her because most of my [00:38:01] friends and colleagues, I mean, I was an [00:38:03] intelligence officer for over 10 years. [00:38:06] So, you can imagine many of my friends [00:38:08] and colleagues work in the intelligence [00:38:10] community and their contacts are in my [00:38:12] phone. And so, I said to her, I can't [00:38:14] give you my phone because I'm putting uh [00:38:18] at risk to a foreign government all of [00:38:20] these people who are in the military, in [00:38:23] the intelligence community. And so we [00:38:26] even got into a bit of of like a [00:38:28] argument over it. She was getting [00:38:31] frustrated with the fact that I was not [00:38:33] willing to give her this information. [00:38:37] And uh after probably about 2 to 3 hours [00:38:40] of her asking me these questions, um the [00:38:43] they uh escorted me to another location [00:38:46] where I was detained and uh then [00:38:49] presented me with a document stating [00:38:52] that I would not be able to enter into [00:38:54] Palestine and or Israel is what the [00:38:57] document says and uh that I was banned [00:39:01] for five years and uh because I pose a [00:39:04] public security threat. [00:39:08] I'll just say that a three-hour [00:39:10] interrogation is a long long [00:39:13] interrogation. [00:39:15] Like sess sessions usually don't last [00:39:18] that long. That's pretty pretty crazy. [00:39:20] So, you just escorted back to the border [00:39:21] and they're like, "Good luck. Be free." [00:39:24] Yes, they escort. So, they deported me [00:39:26] back to Jordan and then I enter into the [00:39:28] Jordan immigration and customs and they [00:39:30] asked me why. Uh they were actually [00:39:33] really surprised that I wasn't allowed [00:39:35] in. And they even said, "Well, what's [00:39:37] your job?" And and I, you know, I told [00:39:41] them I, you know, work for a media [00:39:44] company and before this I was in the [00:39:46] military. I think they were a little bit [00:39:48] confused about why I wouldn't be let in [00:39:50] as an American citizen. And uh then they [00:39:54] just allowed me to stay in Jordan. They [00:39:55] just gave me a visa to just stay in [00:39:57] Jordan to finish my trip. Um yeah. So [00:40:02] yeah, and I'll just say as a side note, [00:40:04] when I was in the military, I went [00:40:05] through Ranger school with a couple of [00:40:06] Jordanian officers and seems like we [00:40:09] have better military cooperation with [00:40:11] them than we do with Israel. But [00:40:13] anyways, um I'm actually not surprised. [00:40:16] Do you think you were flagged on a list [00:40:18] as a dissident? Because you've been very [00:40:20] public about this and there's no way [00:40:23] that their intelligence apparatus is not [00:40:25] tracking you. [00:40:27] Yeah, I thought, you know, I wondered [00:40:29] the same thing, but I actually assumed [00:40:32] that had I been flagged in advance that [00:40:34] I probably wouldn't even have made it [00:40:36] through the Jordanian border because [00:40:38] there is a lot of cooperation between [00:40:41] the Jordanian immigration and the [00:40:43] Israeli immigration at the border [00:40:45] between Jordan and Palestine and [00:40:47] oftentimes uh is the Israelis will [00:40:50] communicate names to them that not to [00:40:52] let them even through the crossing. So [00:40:55] once I got through the Jordanian [00:40:56] crossing, I thought, "Okay, well maybe [00:40:58] they haven't flagged me." But surely [00:41:00] once I entered and she started going [00:41:02] through my phone, I had deleted all of [00:41:05] my social media apps, Signal, WhatsApp, [00:41:07] and everything. And she even was asking [00:41:10] me questions like, "When did you delete [00:41:12] this?" And and I and I used the uh the [00:41:14] Hill the old Hillary Clinton, I don't [00:41:16] recall. [00:41:20] Yeah. Well, we're glad nothing else [00:41:22] happened to you. Um, absolutely. So, uh, [00:41:26] five years. Yeah, there is an option for [00:41:30] me to go to the Israeli embassy and, uh, [00:41:33] inside of the United States and argue [00:41:35] for them to lift the ban. Um, once I [00:41:38] returned to Jordan, I contacted my [00:41:40] priest who I had actually invited to [00:41:43] come with me on this trip. Um, but [00:41:45] because it's Lent in the Catholic [00:41:47] religion, this is a very busy time for [00:41:49] priests. um he wasn't able to come, but [00:41:52] he was interested. So once I returned to [00:41:55] uh Jordan, I contacted my priest and I [00:41:57] let him know that they would not allow [00:41:59] me to go on the Christian pilgrimage and [00:42:01] that when I return to America, I want to [00:42:03] meet with my archbishop uh inside of the [00:42:06] dascese where I belong in Ohio. And I [00:42:09] also want to speak with uh [00:42:12] administrators at in the Vatican to let [00:42:14] them understand that the Israeli [00:42:16] government is stopping Catholics um and [00:42:19] Christians from being able to go to the [00:42:22] holy sites and honor Christian [00:42:23] pilgrimage, which is a really big deal [00:42:25] because uh the Israeli government really [00:42:28] stands on the fact that they love [00:42:30] Christians and there's this mutual [00:42:32] support that happens between uh the [00:42:35] Israeli government and and Christians [00:42:36] throughout the world. But the reality is [00:42:38] that that isn't true. [00:42:41] No, we we've seen videos of that [00:42:43] disparaging anyone who's not um not even [00:42:46] Jewish, like not even sharing the the [00:42:49] Zionist ideology as well. So, yeah, I [00:42:51] mean, I I would definitely be interested [00:42:53] in seeing what the archbishop has to say [00:42:55] and tracking the uh the Catholic Church [00:42:59] uh side quest. Uh I think that's a [00:43:01] pretty interesting avenue, especially in [00:43:02] terms of like an information operations [00:43:04] perspective. So, um, yeah, definitely [00:43:08] definitely be there to support you on [00:43:10] that. So, well, [00:43:13] that actually went better than expected [00:43:14] because I thought you would have been [00:43:15] flagged. So, yeah. I mean, now I'm [00:43:18] flagged, but um I'm sure once they [00:43:21] initially flagged me, they most likely [00:43:24] looked up my name on Google, my uh [00:43:27] social media. For me, it would have been [00:43:29] impossible to de to go through, you [00:43:31] know, if you Google my name, there's [00:43:33] pages and pages of my advocacy for [00:43:35] Palestine. So, yeah, um it really would [00:43:38] have been impossible for me to have that [00:43:40] all deleted. So, the only thing I really [00:43:42] could do to try and go was to delete my [00:43:45] apps. And of course, that didn't work [00:43:46] because that set off a red flag in and [00:43:48] of itself. Yeah. So, damned if you do, [00:43:52] damned if you don't at this point. Well, [00:43:54] um glad you got back safe. So, let's [00:43:56] transition now. [00:43:58] um to Ahmed who was born in an Israeli [00:44:02] occupied village. You know, he's now uh [00:44:05] the president of the Federal Trade Union [00:44:06] and bank systems over Palestine both in [00:44:09] the West Bank and in Gaza. So, I I guess [00:44:12] I was hoping we could just get a little [00:44:15] uh bit of backstory on you, Ahmed, [00:44:17] before I I jump into the current [00:44:19] financial uh situation and the overall [00:44:22] military situation in the West Bank. [00:44:26] Yeah, I didn't understand um your uh uh [00:44:31] your life um from being born into the [00:44:34] occupation. you can talk about. I born [00:44:36] in 1976 in Hebron undercubation [00:44:42] uh until now as you know [00:44:46] uh now [00:44:48] theation closed all uh of the village [00:44:52] all of the roads and there's some uh a [00:44:56] lot of workers uh lost his job maybe [00:45:01] about 600,000 [00:45:05] cards lost his her job after October 7. [00:45:11] The Israeli [00:45:14] occupation attack [00:45:16] any place in [00:45:18] Palestine, not just in [00:45:21] Gaza, a [00:45:23] big attacked in Gaza, but in West Bank, [00:45:26] you know, [00:45:27] there's [00:45:29] one about [00:45:32] 1,00,000 about 1 million uh settlers in [00:45:37] uh uh West Bank and uh the Israeli [00:45:44] soldiers [00:45:46] attacked West Bank in the northwest bank [00:45:49] and the uh south in any uh where and uh [00:45:54] it's closure uh Jerusalem uh and any of [00:46:00] the road between any village or uh [00:46:04] cities and uh maybe it's the the road [00:46:09] closures are the checkpoints. There are [00:46:11] checkpoints. Yeah. Yeah. Uh there's uh [00:46:14] uh a lot of checkpoints and there's in [00:46:17] West Bank uh uh uh nine uh [00:46:22] 955 gate gate you know gate between the [00:46:26] village and uh [00:46:28] uh and uh cities and cutting the road [00:46:33] between [00:46:35] uh between any place in West Bank and [00:46:41] it's more difficult to uh to transport [00:46:46] between any place in West Bank. In [00:46:50] before October 7, I work in uh Hebrew [00:46:55] City. Just I I was need uh 15 minutes to [00:47:00] uh arrive uh our [00:47:03] uh office. But now I uh need uh more [00:47:08] than uh 1 hours to arrive uh our office. [00:47:14] Yeah. So they have a heightened security [00:47:16] procedures. Obviously that's been uh [00:47:19] expected. Uh we we keep hearing more [00:47:22] reports about the prisons. The [00:47:23] Associated Press reported three hours [00:47:25] ago as of today that the first minor uh [00:47:31] boy under the age of 18 has died in [00:47:33] Israeli captivity. Uh it seems like [00:47:36] conditions are absolutely [00:47:38] degrading. I think I think the the the [00:47:42] foreign [00:47:43] audience has a pretty good conception of [00:47:46] what that looks like in so far as that's [00:47:50] possible for an outsider to have a [00:47:52] perspective on. But what you said about [00:47:55] 600,000 people, Palestinians, losing [00:47:58] their jobs after October 7th, I think [00:48:02] based off your expertise and uh I think [00:48:06] we would like to kind of focus in on the [00:48:09] economic situation, the lived economic [00:48:12] situation for Palestinians after October [00:48:15] 7th because we've seen a lot of photos [00:48:19] of Israeli soldiers going in destroying [00:48:23] banks, opening vaults, taking the money. [00:48:26] Um, yeah. So, I was I was hoping that [00:48:30] you could tell us a little bit about [00:48:31] like what the financial situation is. [00:48:33] We've we've seen them destroy every [00:48:36] hospital in Gaza, uh, power relay [00:48:40] stations. There's no longer any sort of [00:48:43] like trash pickup. Are they doing the [00:48:46] same kind of this all the schools have [00:48:48] been leveled in Gaza? Are we seeing the [00:48:50] same kind of destruction of the banking [00:48:54] system as we're [00:48:55] seeing in other civilian sectors? [00:49:00] Yeah. Uh the situation the financial [00:49:04] situation is very difficult now because [00:49:07] uh you know about [00:49:11] 600,000 workers lost her his work and uh [00:49:17] the [00:49:20] army [00:49:22] attacked all things in Gaza like banks, [00:49:26] hospitals, schools, you know, uh the [00:49:29] children in Gaza from uh 18th month [00:49:34] don't go to the school. There is no [00:49:36] school, no hospital. Uh some of the [00:49:39] people in Gaza uh died uh because there [00:49:44] is no hospital to treatment. They died [00:49:47] in his home. [00:49:49] uh the economic now Palestinian economic [00:49:54] is destroyed. There's a lot of comaries [00:49:57] closed because it's not uh can be [00:50:01] continue the process because the uh [00:50:05] closure because there is uh no no work [00:50:08] no profit and uh no uh the you know uh [00:50:13] when because the closure the and [00:50:18] attacked [00:50:19] the banks and workers in uh uh Israeli [00:50:25] soldiers killed [00:50:28] in you know in in Gaza you know it's [00:50:31] destroyed and [00:50:33] killed all the day and all of things in [00:50:37] Gaza like uh hospital banks uh building [00:50:43] anything but in [00:50:45] uh West Bank there's uh killed some of [00:50:49] the workers when uh he go to uh work uh [00:50:55] destroy uh [00:50:57] uh many of the branches uh companies, [00:51:01] insurance companies, banks and other [00:51:04] sectors [00:51:06] uh and uh the destroyed [00:51:10] the economic now is very difficult and [00:51:14] the people and the work the workers the [00:51:17] Palestinian workers there's not have [00:51:19] money and uh there's not get money uh We [00:51:24] facing a difficult to get food for his [00:51:29] children. uh and [00:51:32] uh there's difficult to anything to [00:51:36] medicine service to learn to school [00:51:40] learn about [00:51:42] uh but in uh in in West Bank the the [00:51:48] situation is [00:51:51] uh more [00:51:54] uh less bad than Gaza. You know in Gaza [00:51:59] there's no food, there's siege, there's [00:52:02] genocide in Gaza. But uh in West Bank we [00:52:09] uh facing uh a lot of [00:52:14] uh destructions and regulation and the [00:52:17] gate and closer and checkpoint. When I [00:52:21] came to [00:52:23] Aman, I have [00:52:27] uh 10 hours to arrive a man. After 7 [00:52:33] October, October 7, we need just two or [00:52:37] three hour to arrive a man. Uh we know [00:52:42] Palestinian people not attack [00:52:46] is it incubate incubate incubate [00:52:49] Palestine in 1948. This is the uh this [00:52:54] is the fact of the conflict in [00:52:59] Palestine. There [00:53:01] is just [00:53:04] uh we the Israeli attacked Palestinian. [00:53:08] There is no war. is just genocide. [00:53:13] Yeah, exactly. I I guess my my my last [00:53:16] question is then um have you we we know [00:53:19] what's going on in Gaza. I think most of [00:53:22] the world knows. Um but in terms of West [00:53:25] Bank and the occupation in West Bank and [00:53:28] the violence of it, have you ever in [00:53:31] your time since the [00:53:32] 70s, the 1970s, seen it this bad? [00:53:39] Have you seen the violence that we are [00:53:42] seeing in the West Bank now? Have you [00:53:45] seen it this bad in your life or is this [00:53:48] the worst it's ever been? Yeah, it's [00:53:50] very very uh very bad situation and uh [00:53:55] it's difficult. I uh uh want to see [00:54:00] about what I'm expect when I return to [00:54:03] my house uh my home. [00:54:07] uh in the next week uh you know I'm [00:54:13] participate the as a delegation in uni [00:54:18] uh uni global and talk about the [00:54:22] genocide and about the accubation and [00:54:25] the regulation [00:54:27] occupation I accept maybe when I return [00:54:30] to my home the Israeli soldiers may be [00:54:35] uh arrested arrested me. Uh but I am [00:54:39] fair. Uh I'm don't fear. I don't fear [00:54:43] but I uh maybe it's uh maybe happened. [00:54:47] To be clear, he says because he went on [00:54:50] the recent delegation to Belfast, [00:54:52] Ireland to meet with at the European uh [00:54:55] international trade union meeting. [00:54:58] during his speech and um when he [00:55:00] addressed the other federal trade unions [00:55:03] uh from all uh countries, he spoke about [00:55:06] the ongoing economic and um death and [00:55:09] destruction happening. And so he he [00:55:11] hasn't been in back into Palestine since [00:55:14] this trip to Ireland last week. He [00:55:17] expects once he goes back to Palestine [00:55:19] because he voiced this internationally [00:55:22] at this conference, he will be arrested. [00:55:27] But he's willing to accept this because [00:55:29] this is his life. This is Yeah. This is [00:55:32] what has happened to all of them his [00:55:33] whole life. So they're used to this. [00:55:36] Just as a matter of curiosity, is there [00:55:38] a pretext? Is there a charge or are [00:55:42] people generally arrested without charge [00:55:44] and placed in administrative detention? [00:55:47] Is will there be some kind of charge or [00:55:50] will it just be [00:55:53] uh for no reason? Basic what will they [00:55:55] charge you with? Uh if you get arrested [00:55:57] or will it be arrested? If they arrest [00:55:59] you, what will they charge you with? [00:56:02] There's no no cause. Maybe you arrested [00:56:04] me without any cause. Arrested without [00:56:07] any cause or charges just for speaking [00:56:10] out at the conference. There is happened [00:56:12] in Palestine and a lot of people in [00:56:15] Palestine arrested in West Bank. There's [00:56:19] the Israeli soldiers arrested more than [00:56:23] 100 bear today. Just today. Yeah. Just [00:56:27] today in in the West Bank in Palestine, [00:56:30] over 100 Palestinians were arrested with [00:56:34] charges. It's normal. It's a normal [00:56:37] occurrence and they are used to this in [00:56:39] their lives. Right. [00:56:42] So, [00:56:43] [Music] [00:56:44] um well, we we all hope that that [00:56:47] doesn't happen. In the meantime, um, [00:56:49] what would you like people in the [00:56:51] international community to know and or [00:56:54] do? [00:56:56] Um, what do you call on the [00:56:59] international community and uh and [00:57:02] Americans to to to know about Palestine [00:57:06] and what would you call them to do to [00:57:08] help the Palestinians? Yeah. Yeah. I [00:57:11] call him and the American people to [00:57:14] understand the historical of Palestinian [00:57:17] case and [00:57:19] uh what's the [00:57:22] uh the situation of conflict of [00:57:27] Palestine there is in [00:57:30] 1948 there's accubation and uh because [00:57:35] that the Palestin the [00:57:37] Palestinian we need a peace We want to [00:57:41] uh dignity, human rights. Uh when the [00:57:47] Palestinian demand uh there is no [00:57:50] conflict and I called the American [00:57:53] to institution or people of America to [00:57:58] support [00:58:00] Palestine against genocide. [00:58:03] erh to call uh the law makers uh in US [00:58:09] to uh [00:58:11] [Music] [00:58:12] uh don't support is like bombers and [00:58:18] anything to kill our children and our [00:58:22] women's in Gaza and the in bank and I [00:58:26] hope uh uh the American people can uh [00:58:32] Uh, no, no, no. The tax the [00:58:36] tax from American people it's used to [00:58:41] kill children is is that [00:58:44] uh American people want that. I don't I [00:58:48] I I [00:58:49] I believe it's not the American people [00:58:54] don't want to kill the Palestinian [00:58:57] people, but your I called the uh the [00:59:03] American people the tax uh you paid to [00:59:08] use killed our children in Palestine. [00:59:11] He's uh saying that he calls for the [00:59:13] American people to understand that our [00:59:16] taxes that we are giving to our [00:59:19] government in America is what is being [00:59:21] used to purchase the weapons that are [00:59:23] killing the women and children here. And [00:59:25] he calls for Americans to continue to [00:59:27] pressure and institutions to continue to [00:59:30] pressure lawmakers to change the foreign [00:59:33] policy. And I will tell you uh here in [00:59:35] Jordan uh I've been here for a few weeks [00:59:37] now meeting so many people on the ground [00:59:40] and there's a very large percentage of [00:59:42] Palestinians that uh uh well they have [00:59:45] Jordanian citizenship but the reality is [00:59:47] they are Palestinian and in during the [00:59:49] Nagba most of their families were [00:59:52] displaced here and most people [00:59:54] understand that uh for most of their [00:59:57] lives for hundreds of years there's [00:59:59] always been someone who has occupied the [01:00:01] land for example the Ottoman Empire the [01:00:03] Roman Empire. But this occupation is [01:00:06] different for their ancestors and for [01:00:07] them because this is the first one that [01:00:09] truly is trying to ethnically cleanse [01:00:12] and exterminate the people. So there's [01:00:14] this overall sentiment with the people [01:00:16] here, the Palestinians, that it's no [01:00:19] problem for them to live amongst uh [01:00:21] other religions, Christians, Muslims. Of [01:00:23] course, I'm Christian, he's Muslim. This [01:00:24] is fine. Yeah. And um the issue is that [01:00:27] they want to steal their land and and [01:00:29] kill their children. Um, but they have [01:00:32] no problem living with the the current [01:00:34] citizens of Israel, but there must be [01:00:37] peace. And this is the expression that [01:00:38] I'm getting from everyone here. There's [01:00:41] no problem living amongst the people, [01:00:42] but you can't uh kick them off their [01:00:45] land, steal their land, and uh kill [01:00:47] them. And I will the struggle the [01:00:50] struggle the the Palestinian struggle is [01:00:53] not against anyone. It's not against [01:00:57] Isubation. [01:00:59] We need human rights. We need live in [01:01:03] dignity. We live uh uh to uh as as [01:01:08] another nation to uh learn [01:01:12] to hospital [01:01:16] to [01:01:18] to [01:01:20] debation liberation Palestine. We don't [01:01:24] uh want to against anyone in the world. [01:01:29] We just want uh to [01:01:32] [Music] [01:01:34] er want dignity and uh human rights as [01:01:39] another nation. [01:01:43] Yes, there's there's uh many [01:01:45] conversations that I've had here on the [01:01:47] ground um about how the overall feeling [01:01:51] towards Americans is there's actually a [01:01:53] sense of them feeling sorry for us. Even [01:01:56] as Americans, they recognize that [01:01:58] there's a level of oppression that we [01:02:00] live under because of our government and [01:02:02] that uh America uh states that um we are [01:02:07] the free country, the democratic [01:02:09] country. But uh internationally, [01:02:11] everyone knows this isn't actually true. [01:02:14] And they see this too and they feel [01:02:15] sorry for American people that we are [01:02:18] like slaves. They they have a hard time [01:02:21] understanding that we have men that work [01:02:24] 60 70 80 hours a week and still live [01:02:27] paycheck to paycheck. For them they it's [01:02:29] unbelievable how Americans are treated [01:02:31] by our government as well. Yeah. And [01:02:35] that's I guess an important point [01:02:37] because really um the occupation if it's [01:02:41] going to end just like any other case of [01:02:44] colonial history it ends when it ends in [01:02:48] the imperial corps in the empire itself [01:02:50] when people finally get fed up enough [01:02:53] with sending their money to a foreign [01:02:55] nation or a host of foreign nations, you [01:02:59] know, to basically commit violence uh [01:03:01] for their own reasons. and also [01:03:04] influence our government. And it's not [01:03:06] just Apac or the other lobbies. It's the [01:03:09] military-industrial complex. It's the [01:03:11] media complex. It's the academics, the [01:03:13] think tanks that all get kickbacks from [01:03:16] from Boeing and Rathon and everything [01:03:18] that basically goes into our overriding [01:03:21] capitalist capitalist system, which is [01:03:23] also why you're working 70 hours a week [01:03:26] and still struggling to not get evicted. [01:03:29] So yeah, the house of cards has to come [01:03:33] crumbling down here. So um you know what [01:03:36] I've been talking about in terms of like [01:03:37] supporting Palestine, honestly, it's [01:03:39] just literally acting in your own [01:03:41] self-interest. [01:03:43] Yes. And really pressuring in your own [01:03:45] self-interest as an American citizen. So [01:03:48] absolutely. The end of the occupation [01:03:50] over Palestinians will save American [01:03:52] citizens billions and billions of [01:03:54] dollars, not only for the weapons that [01:03:57] we are aiding, the Israeli occupation to [01:04:00] uh uh for these offensive genocidal [01:04:03] attacks, but also the defense structure [01:04:06] that we have to maintain for them, the [01:04:08] Iron Dome. Um and we give them all this [01:04:11] mutual aid. Once the occupation ends, [01:04:14] the American people will uh save [01:04:17] billions in tax dollars. [01:04:19] I'm not trying to correct you, Josie. Uh [01:04:22] but like there's nothing mutual about [01:04:23] it, which you know. Well, mutual. Oh, [01:04:27] yeah. Our greatest ally. Well, look [01:04:30] guys, we're out of time. I'm glad we [01:04:32] were able to uh do this uh put in like a [01:04:35] call to action. So, uh, there there is a [01:04:38] the protest on April 5th against the [01:04:40] current Trump administration that's [01:04:42] doing a crackdown not just um by giving [01:04:45] a blank check to whatever Israel does, [01:04:48] but also cracking down on free speech, [01:04:51] not just within pro Palestine protests, [01:04:54] but anti-Tesla protests, which is a [01:04:57] whole new level of corporate dystopia [01:04:59] that we're seeing. It's insane. So, uh, [01:05:01] hope you get involved, join a radical [01:05:05] organization and get stuck in because [01:05:07] this only this ends with us. And yeah, [01:05:11] guys, uh, I want to thank [01:05:13] uh, Captain Josephine Gilbo and Ahmed [01:05:17] Tamez of the Palestine Federal Trade [01:05:20] Union for taking the time to come on [01:05:22] with us. [01:05:24] Thank you for having us. Thank you. All [01:05:27] right. And uh sorry folks for the the [01:05:29] the challenging circumst uh [01:05:31] circumstances and quality. We are we're [01:05:35] doing our best here. Again, thank you so [01:05:36] much and we'll see y'all on the next [01:05:45] one. All right, y'all. Well, that is our [01:05:49] show. We're out of time. I also don't [01:05:51] see any starred comments or questions. [01:05:55] Uh, a lot of good stuff in there, I [01:05:57] think. Um, and yeah, we'll see what [01:06:00] happens with the Iran deal. But I hope [01:06:02] that was uh enlightening. And you asked [01:06:04] me about the H group, the 12 countries [01:06:06] that can come together that could form a [01:06:09] military coalition to stop genocide. [01:06:13] Yeah, it's not going to happen. The only [01:06:14] country with any sort of power [01:06:17] projection in that group is Turkey. And [01:06:22] they're not going to do anything. They [01:06:23] have long-standing intelligence [01:06:25] cooperation uh with Israel and they're [01:06:28] currently uh dealing with [01:06:30] uh they're currently dealing with uh [01:06:33] trying to divvy up Syria and a lot of [01:06:36] other diplomatic initiatives with [01:06:38] Israel. So the the hey group [01:06:40] unfortunately y'all is a non-starter. Uh [01:06:42] the end of the genocide in Palestine [01:06:45] begins at home in European and American [01:06:48] and North American countries. So, um, [01:06:51] yeah, long fight going out on ahead and [01:06:54] we will see you next week. Uh, don't let [01:06:58] the man get you down and keep going. Uh, [01:07:01] sorry we didn't have actually time for a [01:07:03] Q&A, but catch you next Monday. Cheers [01:07:07] y'all and have a good night.