📄 Extracted Text (19,578 words)
[00:00:00] You are a professor at Rice in Houston.
[00:00:04] What do you teach there? Tell us about
[00:00:06] your specialty, your your work, your
[00:00:08] professional work. I'm an organic
[00:00:10] chemist. I teach organic chemistry, but
[00:00:13] I also do nanotechnology.
[00:00:15] So I have appointments in chemistry as
[00:00:18] well as in material science and
[00:00:20] nanoengineering as well as in computer
[00:00:22] science. And so I will teach at the
[00:00:25] interface of all of these. And uh uh
[00:00:28] that that's what I do. I teach and I do
[00:00:30] a lot of research. I have a big research
[00:00:32] group there and we work in the area of
[00:00:34] nanotechnology
[00:00:36] across from from pharmaceuticals. I I've
[00:00:40] started several pharmaceutical
[00:00:41] companies, several materials companies,
[00:00:43] several electronics companies. We're we
[00:00:46] have new AI memory a AI computing/memory
[00:00:50] chips we've made and and uh uh other
[00:00:53] memory on the market through companies
[00:00:55] we've started. So, so we we that's what
[00:00:57] we do. We we generate new things and
[00:00:59] publish papers, produce PhD students and
[00:01:02] start [music] companies.
[00:01:08] [music]
[00:01:17] [music]
[00:01:24] So you're actively now you're actively
[00:01:26] involved in scientific research.
[00:01:28] >> I'm actively
[00:01:29] >> involved in scientific research, not
[00:01:30] just teaching.
[00:01:31] >> Yes. Yeah. That's what I do. Most of my
[00:01:33] day is scientific research. I only
[00:01:34] lecture uh uh two and a half hours a
[00:01:38] week, something like that. And the rest
[00:01:40] of my time is is uh uh on the research
[00:01:43] side. I I should say for people who
[00:01:45] aren't grounded in this, you're you're
[00:01:46] well and I know that you won't say it,
[00:01:48] but you're you're well known in your
[00:01:49] field and um and I'm saying that because
[00:01:54] you also speak openly and have your
[00:01:57] entire career, I think, about Jesus and
[00:01:59] God and the fact that you are a
[00:02:01] believing Christian. That would seem to
[00:02:03] be like an internal conflict. You don't
[00:02:05] hear that. And to the extent you do, you
[00:02:08] hear that scientists of course can't be
[00:02:11] believing Christians because that's a
[00:02:13] conflict with science.
[00:02:15] >> Yeah, I've heard that before. Uh uh I've
[00:02:17] never I've never felt the conflict.
[00:02:20] Actually, my science makes me believe
[00:02:22] all the more. Uh because when I see
[00:02:25] things uh uh I understand it and it is
[00:02:28] amazing. I mean we we got this this
[00:02:30] wooden table here and I know why this
[00:02:33] has the properties that it does. I mean,
[00:02:35] when you have a tree, you can run a car
[00:02:38] right into the tree and the car is
[00:02:39] destroyed and the tree just stays there
[00:02:41] just fine. I mean, why is that? I know
[00:02:44] why this has the properties that it has
[00:02:46] because it has these carbohydrates,
[00:02:47] these polysaccharide strands that are
[00:02:49] held together by these hydrogen bonds
[00:02:51] and they will give a little bit. And so,
[00:02:53] you have this this this amazing impact
[00:02:56] strength uh on a piece of wood. I mean,
[00:02:59] the common man on the street doesn't
[00:03:00] know that. And I know that. And I I I'm
[00:03:03] like, "God, you're amazing. This is this
[00:03:05] is just what an amazing piece of
[00:03:07] construction." I mean, you take a piece
[00:03:09] of plastic, I mean, after 5 years of
[00:03:12] things starting to decompose, certainly
[00:03:13] after 10, and you can go around the
[00:03:15] world and you can see thousand-year-old
[00:03:18] structures made out of wood, and the
[00:03:20] wood is still there. I mean, for God to
[00:03:23] have made a material like this, I I work
[00:03:25] in the area of material science, and so
[00:03:27] it it makes you look at God, you're
[00:03:30] amazing. How do you do this? Then you
[00:03:31] look at life, living entities. I mean,
[00:03:34] how do you pull this thing off? We don't
[00:03:36] know how to build like this. There's a
[00:03:38] reason why we build robots out of out of
[00:03:41] plastic and wires and silicon rather
[00:03:44] than molecules. I mean, every time you
[00:03:46] want to build something, what do you do?
[00:03:47] You look you look at something that
[00:03:49] already does that and you mimic it.
[00:03:50] Well, why don't we build our robots out
[00:03:52] of molecules, out of out of
[00:03:54] polysaccharides and polyeptides and and
[00:03:56] and lipids and and nucleic acids? Why
[00:03:58] don't we build? Because that's what's
[00:04:00] demonstrated to us in nature. We we
[00:04:02] would just copy it cuz we have in the
[00:04:03] fog idea. It's so hard to think about
[00:04:06] how you're going to build something out
[00:04:08] of molecules. So what do you do? You
[00:04:09] build it out of plastic. You build it
[00:04:11] out of silicon. You I mean the these
[00:04:13] basic four classes of components and I'm
[00:04:15] like God, how do you do this? This is
[00:04:17] what I mean I it gives me much more
[00:04:19] appreciation for God when I see this as
[00:04:22] a scientist. Who who has this
[00:04:24] understanding that I have? Nobody. I
[00:04:26] mean, I look at a tree, I I see a leaf,
[00:04:28] and and I know why it's green, and I
[00:04:30] know why why why why uh uh uh I know
[00:04:33] that there's a magnesium atom sitting in
[00:04:34] the middle of a pferin, and photons are
[00:04:37] funneled funneled light is funneled into
[00:04:39] that magnesium atom. It hits that
[00:04:41] magnesium atom, it ejects an electron,
[00:04:43] and that starts the photosynthesis
[00:04:45] process. So, it takes carbon dioxide,
[00:04:47] the things that we exhale, it uses the
[00:04:49] carbon to build the tree and then it
[00:04:52] takes the oxygen and releases us
[00:04:54] releases it for us to breathe. Nobody
[00:04:56] else knows it. And and I look at a tree
[00:04:58] and I see that. I mean, I I I look at
[00:05:01] you, I know exactly what's happening
[00:05:02] with your eyes. I mean, there there's
[00:05:04] these bacterial these these rodopsin
[00:05:07] type molecules that every time a photon
[00:05:09] of light hits your eye, this thing is
[00:05:12] changing its configuration and then it
[00:05:14] has to relax back. And and this is why
[00:05:15] you see the image of me. Every time you
[00:05:17] learn something about me, there's there
[00:05:19] there it's it's just an electronic
[00:05:21] interaction. And then this is going to
[00:05:23] protein synthesis. And then this protein
[00:05:25] synthesis as you go to sleep tonight,
[00:05:26] it'll turn into hardwired interconnects
[00:05:28] in your brain. Who knows this but a
[00:05:30] scientist. And you give glory to God.
[00:05:32] This is amazing. It It's interesting
[00:05:36] though because I think many scientists
[00:05:39] would describe the properties of a tree
[00:05:40] as you just did and wind up worshiping
[00:05:42] the tree.
[00:05:44] Yeah, I I Yeah, it's unfortunate that
[00:05:46] happens. I mean, it's like GK Chesterton
[00:05:48] said, when you stop believing in God,
[00:05:51] you you you you don't stop believing in
[00:05:53] everything. You start believing in
[00:05:55] anything. I mean, so you think this tree
[00:05:56] is your god. I mean, it's so so uh um uh
[00:06:00] yeah, it it's really unfortunate, but
[00:06:02] you know, I think scientists sometimes
[00:06:05] give an image on the outside that's not
[00:06:08] really what's on the inside. I've many
[00:06:10] times sat with them and I say, "Do do
[00:06:13] you really understand
[00:06:15] life? Do you understand how this thing
[00:06:17] works? Do you understand what's going on
[00:06:19] here? Do you do do you understand how
[00:06:21] these things came about?" I've never had
[00:06:23] a scientist say to me, "Oh, yeah. No
[00:06:27] problem. I understand this.
[00:06:30] We have a we have a pretty good grasp on
[00:06:32] this thing." [laughter]
[00:06:33] Never. Never in private. Never in
[00:06:35] private. They'll never say that. I've
[00:06:38] had people say, "Jim, look, I I hear
[00:06:40] you. Don't quote me, but I I'm with you
[00:06:43] on this thing." And so, so, uh, I think
[00:06:45] the vast majority of them agree with me,
[00:06:47] but they don't say it.
[00:06:49] >> So, without even getting far, I mean, I
[00:06:51] want to get to the core question, which
[00:06:52] is what is life and how [snorts] is it
[00:06:55] created? But before we get there,
[00:06:56] >> yeah,
[00:06:57] >> what you're what you just said makes
[00:06:58] sense. Of course, there's no evidence
[00:07:01] anyone really understands any of this,
[00:07:03] but why not just admit that?
[00:07:06] Uh I sometimes the community is not very
[00:07:09] warm when you admit that sort of thing.
[00:07:11] You get exclude excluded from certain
[00:07:14] societies from certainmies
[00:07:17] when you start speaking like that when
[00:07:19] you don't tow the party line.
[00:07:21] >> Um uh scientists are just like everybody
[00:07:24] else. We we want to allay our fears and
[00:07:27] and be part of the crowd and be part of
[00:07:29] the group and so um we say things. But I
[00:07:33] thought that science required well
[00:07:35] honesty above all and an admission that
[00:07:38] you know you don't know something and
[00:07:39] then a declaration that you do if you
[00:07:40] think you do etc etc but you always have
[00:07:42] to kind of come back to what you know so
[00:07:44] why wouldn't you admit when you don't
[00:07:46] know so you thought that I did think
[00:07:48] that I was I was told that in school
[00:07:50] >> yeah so so um [laughter]
[00:07:52] >> sorry
[00:07:54] I actually only learned during co that
[00:07:56] wasn't true but I didn't know that
[00:07:57] >> yeah yeah many people learned during co
[00:08:00] that wasn't true and scientists have
[00:08:02] lost a lot of credibility and rightly
[00:08:04] so. It needed to be lost because we're
[00:08:07] not very honest about many things. A lot
[00:08:10] of times we'll see things and I think
[00:08:12] that we will keep uh preaching the same
[00:08:14] thing and and underscoring and it and
[00:08:17] it's you have this ancestral sort of
[00:08:19] relationship in the sense of it's peer
[00:08:22] review and if the paper you're reviewing
[00:08:26] uh seems to come against and discount
[00:08:29] some of the things that you have been
[00:08:31] saying your whole career and it's very
[00:08:34] easy to nyx that paper and to say I
[00:08:37] don't think this paper should be
[00:08:38] published and to give reasons why it
[00:08:40] shouldn't be published. So, so if you if
[00:08:42] you if you want to get grant money, you
[00:08:44] you need to say certain things and and
[00:08:46] uh it's very hard to come with a with
[00:08:49] something that's going to shake up a
[00:08:50] field, it's very easy to to come in with
[00:08:52] a with small developments, but to
[00:08:55] something that's going to shake up a
[00:08:56] field, that's very hard to do. The
[00:08:58] system is not made for that. Christmas
[00:09:00] is here. That means you're eating a lot.
[00:09:02] We are. It's a tough time to get on the
[00:09:04] scale because the meals keep coming and
[00:09:06] so does the weight gain. But what if
[00:09:08] there was a way to eat like you want to
[00:09:10] eat without getting really fat over
[00:09:12] Christmas week? This is an ongoing
[00:09:14] concern in my house. A snack that tastes
[00:09:17] excellent and is healthy. Well, it
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[00:09:22] It's part of a growing movement to
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[00:09:25] grandparents ate before snacks were
[00:09:28] designed in labs. How do they do it?
[00:09:30] Well, we'll tell you cuz it's very
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[00:09:48] and you feel way better after. You're
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[00:10:04] masachips.com/tucker.
[00:10:06] Use the code Tucker for 25% off your
[00:10:08] first order or just click the link in
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[00:10:13] online, you can also buy masa chips at
[00:10:15] your local Sprouts supermarket. Stop by
[00:10:18] and pick up a bag. They're awesome. But
[00:10:21] then you wind up, I think, destroying
[00:10:23] the system if you don't adhere to like
[00:10:25] the basic precept, which is science is
[00:10:27] about telling the truth. It's a process
[00:10:29] designed to make sure we're telling the
[00:10:31] truth. That's my read of it anyway.
[00:10:33] Well, I don't I don't think I don't
[00:10:35] think that any scientists go into this
[00:10:36] thing with dishonesty
[00:10:39] >> on their forefront. You know, they don't
[00:10:40] wake up in the morning, I'm I'm going to
[00:10:42] write something false today,
[00:10:43] >> right?
[00:10:43] >> I don't think they do. And and uh we all
[00:10:46] get brought up in this in this
[00:10:49] educational system where we're taught
[00:10:51] something. And then as we start
[00:10:53] researching this and we start saying,
[00:10:55] "Hey, this is not exactly right. I I
[00:10:59] don't I don't see exactly what you're
[00:11:02] saying. That bothers people. And I mean,
[00:11:06] I can give you examples of this. Many
[00:11:07] times I've I've challenged the the
[00:11:09] community. I mean, show me where I'm
[00:11:11] wrong on this. Show me. And nobody will
[00:11:14] come forward. I mean, I have specific
[00:11:16] examples. I said, I I've even gone so
[00:11:19] far as to say, I I don't understand the
[00:11:21] chemistry
[00:11:23] behind the evolutionary process. I mean,
[00:11:25] you'll talk generalities. If you want to
[00:11:27] fly over 30,000 ft and look down, okay,
[00:11:29] you can describe it, but tell me about
[00:11:32] the chemistry. Tell me about the
[00:11:33] molecular interactions that are going to
[00:11:35] have to occur, the changes at the
[00:11:37] molecular level and how that happens.
[00:11:39] You would think my colleagues would say,
[00:11:40] "No problem, Jim. Let's go out to lunch
[00:11:42] and I'll I would think that actually
[00:11:45] I'll I'll tell you how it happens. I'll
[00:11:47] tell you what happens."
[00:11:49] But they don't they don't they they
[00:11:53] don't tell me how it happens. It's very
[00:11:55] rare. only one colleague in my whole
[00:11:58] career had from from uh uh uh uh the
[00:12:02] Washington University in St. Louis
[00:12:04] reached out to me and he tried to
[00:12:06] explain to me. We got together. I flew
[00:12:08] out there. I mean, this is how badly I
[00:12:09] wanted to know. Talk to me about the
[00:12:11] chemistry behind this evolutionary
[00:12:14] process cuz I'm just not getting it. And
[00:12:16] I spent two days with him and we got a
[00:12:19] room there in his building and and he
[00:12:21] just took me through it. And I I
[00:12:23] appreciated him his taking the time, but
[00:12:25] I still walked away not really seeing
[00:12:27] the chemistry, but I appreciated his
[00:12:29] trying. That's You flew to St. Louis to
[00:12:32] hear this for two days.
[00:12:35] >> Okay. I'm I I don't want to take us off
[00:12:37] track and I will get back to the
[00:12:39] question of evolution and what do we
[00:12:40] know and what don't we know, but can we
[00:12:42] start at the beginning which is with
[00:12:43] life? What is life?
[00:12:45] >> Well, what is life is is not answered by
[00:12:48] science. M
[00:12:50] >> there are the characteristics of life.
[00:12:52] What is life is probably something much
[00:12:53] better explained in the Bible. You
[00:12:56] behold and you say uh you know h human
[00:13:00] life is this way. It's pretty corrupt
[00:13:02] and uh um it's fairly weak. It rebelss
[00:13:05] against God. I mean this is this is the
[00:13:06] what is life question. But but the
[00:13:09] characteristics of life is is that it's
[00:13:12] responsive to the environment. It has
[00:13:14] growth and change. It has metabolism. It
[00:13:17] breathes. has homeostasis. It's made of
[00:13:20] cells and it passes on traits to
[00:13:23] offspring. Those are the characteristics
[00:13:25] of life. That's very well defined by
[00:13:27] science. And now you see scientists
[00:13:29] trying to change those definitions and
[00:13:32] give it a much smaller
[00:13:35] number of those things. So it's
[00:13:37] something that they can claim that they
[00:13:39] have made, but what they've made is just
[00:13:40] a bunch of nonsense. It's made it's
[00:13:42] really not life at all. It's things
[00:13:44] people have seen for a long time. It's
[00:13:46] just really not life. I mean, show show
[00:13:48] me show me the homeostasis. Homeostasis
[00:13:50] is is a is a constant internal state.
[00:13:53] So, if you go outside on a freezing cold
[00:13:56] day, your body has to maintain its body
[00:13:59] temperature. And not just your body,
[00:14:01] every cell in your body has to maintain
[00:14:02] a proper temperature, proper pH balance,
[00:14:05] proper proton interactions, has
[00:14:08] [clears throat] to still make ATP, still
[00:14:11] has to carry out all of these functions.
[00:14:13] That's homeostasis. all of these vast
[00:14:15] number of things that hap have to
[00:14:17] happen. You show me any one of your
[00:14:19] synthetic garbage that you say is a is a
[00:14:21] cell and show me the homeostasis in
[00:14:24] this. It's not there. Show me the
[00:14:26] metabolism here real. Show me that it
[00:14:28] breathes. Show show me what it's doing
[00:14:30] with oxygen. Show show me it's not
[00:14:32] there. And so so this is the
[00:14:34] characteristics of life. And we every
[00:14:38] cell has it has to be made of cells.
[00:14:40] This has always been a characteristic of
[00:14:41] life has to be made of cells. So, we see
[00:14:43] this in every cell, but we don't know
[00:14:45] how to mimic it.
[00:14:48] >> I had no idea there was an effort
[00:14:49] underway to change the definition of
[00:14:51] life. Who was behind that effort, and
[00:14:54] what's the point of it?
[00:14:55] >> Uh, origin of life researchers,
[00:14:57] where they want to claim that what
[00:14:59] they've done in their laboratory has
[00:15:01] made life. And sometimes they'll use
[00:15:03] these words, a code word. Here's some
[00:15:05] protolife.
[00:15:06] Well, what does that mean? And then you
[00:15:08] see it ramped up in the in the lay
[00:15:10] press. Scientists have created life
[00:15:13] science. And it's really quite simple,
[00:15:15] you know.
[00:15:17] This is what they'll say. And and uh
[00:15:19] it's really simple. I mean, even even
[00:15:21] articles from 2025 are claiming that
[00:15:24] scientists finally figured out how to
[00:15:25] make life. It it's nonsense. These
[00:15:28] scientists say these sort of things. So,
[00:15:30] I mean, I've challenged them. I said I
[00:15:32] said any of you can come on my podcast
[00:15:35] and and and tell me about this or if
[00:15:37] you're afraid that I'll doctor it
[00:15:38] somehow we'll go on your podcast or
[00:15:41] we'll get a neutral party podcast. You
[00:15:43] would think that there would be lots of
[00:15:44] origin of life scientists that would
[00:15:46] come forward and and they say I said you
[00:15:48] can't even hook two amino acids
[00:15:50] together. You can't even take the amino
[00:15:52] acids D and K and hook them together
[00:15:54] without the side chains interfering. You
[00:15:56] can't even took hook two molecules of
[00:15:58] glucose together, let alone a
[00:15:59] polysaccharide with with with with
[00:16:02] proper uh attachment using using
[00:16:05] prebiotic chemistry. You can't do it. Am
[00:16:08] I the only one seeing this? If I'm
[00:16:10] wrong, come on my channel and tell me
[00:16:12] how this is done. And none of them will
[00:16:14] come on. You say, "Well, they haven't
[00:16:15] seen my challenge." No, I I also emailed
[00:16:17] them. I also emailed them. I said, "Come
[00:16:19] on on. Come on. Talk about this." None
[00:16:21] of them will come forward. One said,
[00:16:23] "Oh, I could explain to you these things
[00:16:24] in an hour." I said, "Okay, I will come
[00:16:27] to you. I will come to you, your
[00:16:29] institute. I will come to you and I will
[00:16:31] sit there for an hour. You explain it to
[00:16:32] me." I said, "I'll even sit there all
[00:16:34] day and I won't ask any questions unless
[00:16:36] I don't understand something. I won't
[00:16:38] challenge you. I'll just listen." He
[00:16:40] said, "I'm too busy for that."
[00:16:42] I mean, so this is a this is a game now.
[00:16:45] >> So, what um what are they pointing to
[00:16:48] when they say we've created life? Yeah,
[00:16:49] they they're pointing to their 40 years
[00:16:51] of career where they've been saying
[00:16:53] we're on the verge of making life. I
[00:16:55] mean, there are people that are doing
[00:16:56] this that that that they say that
[00:16:58] they're on the verge of making life. I
[00:16:59] mean, Jack Sausc, who was a professor at
[00:17:02] Harvard, now he's at the University of
[00:17:03] Chicago, Nobel Prize winner, said in
[00:17:06] 2014 to a gathering in New York, a
[00:17:08] gathering of lay people in New York,
[00:17:10] that he will have life in his lab in 3
[00:17:12] to 5 years. That was in in 2014. Guess
[00:17:15] what? He missed his deadline. and and uh
[00:17:18] then then years later he now says, you
[00:17:20] know, we're still working on trying to
[00:17:21] get the RNA. Just trying to get RNA. He
[00:17:24] hasn't even made RNA. From RNA to life
[00:17:26] is a is is a chasm that that's that's a
[00:17:29] universewide.
[00:17:31] He hasn't even made the RNA yet. He was
[00:17:33] making claims to the lay public that
[00:17:34] he'd have life in his lab in in in uh in
[00:17:37] in 3 to 5 years. And then Dematar
[00:17:40] Cesilov, a a astrophysicist
[00:17:42] from Harvard, said, "Well, uh it's not
[00:17:44] going to be three to five. It's probably
[00:17:46] more like like like five and not three.
[00:17:48] He said at the same gathering, well,
[00:17:50] guess what? He missed his deadline. I
[00:17:52] mean, Jack uh uh Steve Benner Steve
[00:17:54] Benner has said said on podcast, he says
[00:17:57] that that uh uh most of the many of the
[00:18:00] that's exactly most of the many of the
[00:18:02] paradoxes in origin of life have been
[00:18:04] solved. Like none of them have been
[00:18:06] solved. [laughter] Zero. Zero have been
[00:18:08] solved. In his own mind, they are
[00:18:10] solved. And and and I challenge him on
[00:18:12] it. I said, "What is solved? You said
[00:18:14] that they've been solved. what is soft?
[00:18:15] Tell me about this. And he had no answer
[00:18:17] for me. I mean, I walked up to the guy.
[00:18:19] I saw him come to a gathering. I walked
[00:18:21] right up to him and said, "Explain it to
[00:18:23] me." And and uh uh so he he has made
[00:18:26] these sort of comments. Uh uh uh Lee
[00:18:28] Cronin, another origin of life
[00:18:30] researcher, has said that that uh uh
[00:18:33] within within a couple of years, he said
[00:18:34] in in 2011, within a couple of years, he
[00:18:37] would have made life in his laboratory.
[00:18:39] Guess what? He missed his deadline.
[00:18:41] They're nowhere close. Nowhere close.
[00:18:44] So, so yeah, and and then this goes from
[00:18:46] their mouths when they say this sort of
[00:18:48] thing to the press which ramps it up and
[00:18:50] then it goes into the textbooks and it's
[00:18:52] in all of our textbooks, not just in
[00:18:54] elementary school, even to the advanced
[00:18:57] graduate level, not introductory
[00:18:59] graduate, advanced graduate level
[00:19:01] textbooks in biochemistry talk about the
[00:19:04] same sort of nonsense.
[00:19:06] So creating life would be taking
[00:19:08] something that's inorganic that we can
[00:19:10] all agree is not alive and then turning
[00:19:12] into something that meets the criteria
[00:19:14] you described for life.
[00:19:18] You say there are paradoxes in the
[00:19:20] origin of life itself and they haven't
[00:19:22] answered any of what are those paradoxes
[00:19:24] and
[00:19:26] you have to have four classes of
[00:19:27] compounds. So there's four classes of
[00:19:30] compounds that that build us. You have
[00:19:32] the lipids which surround every one of
[00:19:34] our cell structure. You have the
[00:19:37] polysaccharides. This is the sugars
[00:19:39] hooked together. This is our energy
[00:19:42] sources. And some of these act as as
[00:19:44] channels through which ions can flow.
[00:19:47] You have the nucleotides which are RNA
[00:19:50] and DNA. And then you have the
[00:19:52] polyeptides which are proteins and our
[00:19:55] our uh um our enzymes, the little things
[00:19:58] that construct our body.
[00:20:01] Nobody has ever made those polymers, any
[00:20:05] classes, any of those by a prebiotic
[00:20:07] root. By prebiotic root, I mean using
[00:20:10] the chemicals and techniques that would
[00:20:13] have been available on an early Earth.
[00:20:16] That means prebiotically. Can we make
[00:20:18] some of those structures synthetically
[00:20:20] in a laboratory? Absolutely, we can do
[00:20:23] this. Normally, what we'll do is we'll
[00:20:25] take a cell and deconstruct it and then
[00:20:28] rebuild the pieces as we want. Not only
[00:20:30] can we not make the polymers of these,
[00:20:32] we can't even make the individual units
[00:20:34] of these in a prebiotically relevant
[00:20:36] manner. Each of these has
[00:20:38] stereochemistry. And people will say,
[00:20:40] well, what about the Miller Yuri
[00:20:41] experiment in 19 in in 1953?
[00:20:45] The Miller Yuri experiment made several
[00:20:48] of the amino acids just by taking sparks
[00:20:51] and and and this this reducing
[00:20:53] environment and and having certain gases
[00:20:55] in there. And they found amino acids.
[00:20:58] Nobody has ever been able to take that
[00:21:01] type of mixture and do anything useful
[00:21:03] with it because the the molecules don't
[00:21:05] have handedness. Molecules can come in
[00:21:08] in two forms, a right hand, a
[00:21:10] right-handed and a left-handed version.
[00:21:12] Almost all biological molecules
[00:21:14] >> molecules have handedness.
[00:21:16] >> Absolutely. So, it's important to be
[00:21:18] grateful for the things in your life
[00:21:19] that make your life great. The stuff
[00:21:21] that's easy to take for granted. For
[00:21:22] example, the ability to hear. If you
[00:21:25] couldn't hear, you wouldn't be listening
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[00:22:24] you or someone you love here. It makes
[00:22:27] all the difference. They ju just just as
[00:22:29] if you look at your left hand and your
[00:22:31] right hand, these are mirror images of
[00:22:33] each other. If you hold your left hand
[00:22:34] up to a mirror, you will see what looks
[00:22:37] like your right hand. If you hold your
[00:22:39] right hand up to the mirror, what you'll
[00:22:40] see is what looks like your left hand.
[00:22:43] The two are not the same. And you know
[00:22:44] that when you try to put on a glove, the
[00:22:46] glove doesn't fit right. And so they
[00:22:49] have this mirror image relationship.
[00:22:51] Almost all biological molecules have a
[00:22:54] mirror image relationship.
[00:22:56] So when they will use a prebiotic method
[00:22:59] to make these molecules, they only get
[00:23:02] the mixture. Biology can only run on
[00:23:05] one. It can't run on the mixture of
[00:23:08] them. It's hard to get one. Are there
[00:23:10] modern techniques to do this?
[00:23:11] Absolutely. Are there any techniques
[00:23:14] that could mimic what went on on an
[00:23:16] early Earth? Nowhere close. Nowhere
[00:23:18] close. And people say it happened on a
[00:23:20] chyro surface. People have tried this on
[00:23:22] chyro surfaces. They've never gotten
[00:23:24] good handiness qualities. Never. So we
[00:23:27] don't even know how to make the basic
[00:23:29] building blocks of the building blocks
[00:23:30] that make us. We don't know how to
[00:23:32] polymerize them. We don't know. And then
[00:23:35] even if we had them, we wouldn't know
[00:23:36] what to do. So for example, you can take
[00:23:38] a cell, a living cell, and you can
[00:23:39] deconstruct it. You can take it apart.
[00:23:41] Yes. and you put in in each bottle each
[00:23:43] one of these four classes of compounds
[00:23:45] and all the ions in another bottle and
[00:23:46] say okay not on an early earth but just
[00:23:49] in your modern laboratory can you take
[00:23:51] all of these chemicals and just make a
[00:23:53] cell here's all the components of a cell
[00:23:55] and in fact in here you also have
[00:23:57] theformational code you have to have the
[00:23:59] code the code is the DNA that prescribes
[00:24:02] how this is going to be assembled just
[00:24:04] like when you when you build a house you
[00:24:05] have to have a code you have to have the
[00:24:07] plans to build this thing that that that
[00:24:10] code is is what you need. And so when I
[00:24:14] give you the polymers in full form,
[00:24:16] that's the informationational code
[00:24:17] because that's the sentence. The DNA,
[00:24:19] that's the code, that's the sentence
[00:24:20] that has you the in the discrete
[00:24:22] molecules before you polymerize them.
[00:24:25] That's just letters. It's like a bunch
[00:24:26] of letters, alphabetic letters. That
[00:24:29] means nothing. That has no words. And
[00:24:31] and those don't come together and form
[00:24:33] any any construct of words. If you shake
[00:24:35] it a lot, you might see the word
[00:24:38] th you might find the word in, but
[00:24:42] you're not going to get much. You're not
[00:24:44] going to get much out of this. And and
[00:24:46] we you have to have a lot of
[00:24:48] prescription here. So I give you all of
[00:24:50] this in your modern laboratory. And I've
[00:24:51] challenged the entire origin of life
[00:24:53] community with this. I'll give you
[00:24:54] everything. Can you just assemble a
[00:24:56] cell? And I've given you the code
[00:24:58] because I've given you the DNA
[00:24:59] structure. Just assemble a cell. Can any
[00:25:01] of you do it? Nobody's come forward. And
[00:25:04] I say that the year that you do that,
[00:25:06] you will win a Nobel Prize for sure for
[00:25:08] doing that. Can you do it? Nobody can.
[00:25:10] We're nowhere close to that. Nowhere
[00:25:11] close. So even if you could make all of
[00:25:14] these pieces, could you do something
[00:25:15] with it? And the answer is no. They
[00:25:16] don't know what to do. And and a cell is
[00:25:19] is is an amazing machine. People will
[00:25:21] say, "Well, cells were much simpler back
[00:25:23] then." Much simpler. No, we already know
[00:25:26] what the simplest cells are. First of
[00:25:28] all, yeah, we know what the simplest
[00:25:30] cells are because the simplest cells
[00:25:32] that we have on Earth today are very
[00:25:35] similar to the cells in the fossil
[00:25:37] record. The simplest cells in the fossil
[00:25:38] record that hasn't changed, but
[00:25:40] bioysicists have already told us that
[00:25:42] you can calculate what is the simplest
[00:25:44] cell that you could have that could
[00:25:46] still be operable. They can calculate
[00:25:47] this. All right, make one of those.
[00:25:50] Nowhere close that has like 15 basic
[00:25:52] components, structures that have to be
[00:25:55] made. How many of those 15 have been
[00:25:57] made in a prebi pre pre uh prebi
[00:26:02] prebiotic sense? How many of those have
[00:26:04] ever been made? Zero. None. None. None
[00:26:07] of them have ever been made. We are so
[00:26:09] far from life. And people will say, "Oh,
[00:26:10] well, we're getting closer." No, we
[00:26:12] already know that we're nowhere close.
[00:26:14] And the way you know in science that you
[00:26:15] know we're close is this. You look,
[00:26:17] okay, how far am I from the target? This
[00:26:19] is my target. This is where I am now.
[00:26:21] So, I move a little bit closer. I
[00:26:24] figured out something. But what's
[00:26:25] happened is the target has moved miles
[00:26:28] away from us. The target has moved miles
[00:26:30] away. Just even though I moved a
[00:26:33] nanometer closer here, every year the
[00:26:35] target moves further away. Why? Not
[00:26:36] because the cell is evolving, but
[00:26:38] because we learn about the complexity of
[00:26:40] the cell. We go, "Oh, I have to make
[00:26:42] that or I have to do that or I have to
[00:26:44] have the whole system level structure
[00:26:46] here that that that this whole system
[00:26:50] level structure to this. I have to have
[00:26:52] something called chyroinduced spin
[00:26:54] selectivity which we didn't even know
[00:26:55] about until 25 years ago. I have to have
[00:26:58] the whole interact solved which we
[00:27:00] didn't know about until 20 years ago. So
[00:27:02] these things become increasingly
[00:27:04] difficult to think about solving. It's
[00:27:07] very hard to to think about solving this
[00:27:09] because the target is moving away from
[00:27:10] us fast much faster than we're
[00:27:12] approaching it. So if we don't
[00:27:15] understand how to create life then I
[00:27:18] think it follows that we don't
[00:27:19] understand how life was created.
[00:27:22] No, we have no idea how life was
[00:27:24] created. We have no idea. And and I I
[00:27:26] mean the Bible tells us that God created
[00:27:28] it, but he doesn't give us much details,
[00:27:30] right?
[00:27:30] >> He spoke it into existence. And what I
[00:27:33] mean, the beauty of science is that is
[00:27:35] that is that God has done things. God
[00:27:37] has done certain things and then and
[00:27:39] then uh um he allows us then to
[00:27:42] investigate through science what are the
[00:27:44] details behind this. And that's what
[00:27:46] we're trying to do. We're trying to find
[00:27:47] the details.
[00:27:49] We're clueless on this.
[00:27:51] >> But there is a a very obvious sense in
[00:27:54] which the kind of research air quotes
[00:27:56] that you're describing um is like it's
[00:28:00] more than science. It's like trying to
[00:28:02] kind of take credit for creation itself.
[00:28:04] It's like putting yourself in the place
[00:28:06] of the creator. I mean if they could
[00:28:09] make life.
[00:28:10] >> Yeah. if they could make life. You you
[00:28:11] know the question then becomes why why
[00:28:14] are they projecting why are they
[00:28:17] projecting as if they're on the verge of
[00:28:19] making life or having made life.
[00:28:22] >> I I think that's fundamentally why that
[00:28:25] the question that you're asking why.
[00:28:27] Yeah. And and so so why would they do
[00:28:29] this is is uh uh um you know I I've
[00:28:33] often thought about this. I don't I
[00:28:34] don't think again I don't think
[00:28:36] scientists wake up in the morning and
[00:28:38] and and say you know I I I got to
[00:28:40] somehow project that I'm I'm able to
[00:28:42] make life. You get caught up in this. It
[00:28:46] it's it's like
[00:28:48] you know there's mob mentalities that
[00:28:50] you get caught up in it. People can get
[00:28:52] caught up in a mob mentality very
[00:28:54] easily. you have noticed.
[00:28:55] >> Yeah, we're quite susceptible to this
[00:28:57] type of thing and and uh uh what happens
[00:29:01] is you you hear people talking about
[00:29:03] this and that we're on the verge of
[00:29:05] making life or we've got this thing
[00:29:06] figured out and there's more and more
[00:29:08] people that are coming on and they they
[00:29:10] feel that they need to speak like this
[00:29:12] too. uh uh but they're they're they're
[00:29:16] feel very uncomfortable sitting down
[00:29:18] with me for a discussion because I'm
[00:29:20] going to ask them the details and as
[00:29:22] soon as I ask them just a few little
[00:29:24] details I'm not like a you know I'm not
[00:29:26] a hard interviewer that I'm I got you no
[00:29:29] I just ask them a few very simple little
[00:29:31] things and everything starts to wither
[00:29:33] around the edges and they know it they
[00:29:36] know it they know they don't have an
[00:29:38] answer to this and these the these
[00:29:40] people I mean I mean these things have
[00:29:42] actually happened. I've seen it. Uh
[00:29:44] Steve Benner, major origin of life
[00:29:46] researcher. And you say, "Well, why am I
[00:29:48] calling them out by name?" Because
[00:29:50] they're the ones bringing it forward.
[00:29:52] Steve Benner can get on a podcast and
[00:29:53] tell me I'm all wrong and come forth
[00:29:55] with with with life. Just make life if
[00:29:57] you got this thing figured out. He said
[00:29:59] that that they've got all the pieces.
[00:30:01] They've got all pretty much got all the
[00:30:03] pieces figured out. And so I saw him at
[00:30:05] a meeting. Uh uh I didn't ask him,
[00:30:08] somebody else did. said, "Okay, if
[00:30:10] you've got all the pieces, why don't you
[00:30:11] just put it together and make a sale?"
[00:30:13] And what he said is, "Well, I've been a
[00:30:16] professor now for for four score years,
[00:30:20] and so I'll leave this to the younger
[00:30:22] guys to do." I mean, this is a total
[00:30:24] copout. Total copout. This is the level
[00:30:27] that we're at. And people, oh, okay,
[00:30:30] nice guy. He's going to leave it to
[00:30:31] other people to get the glory.
[00:30:33] [laughter] I mean, he can't do it.
[00:30:34] Nobody can do it. Is cloning making
[00:30:37] life? What is cloning exactly? And where
[00:30:39] are we in the
[00:30:40] >> No, no, no. With with cloning, you start
[00:30:42] with life. You start with life. You're
[00:30:44] never making life. So So you never make
[00:30:46] that original cell. You take cells and
[00:30:49] and you start duplicating them or or you
[00:30:52] you take a cell and you can put in other
[00:30:54] genetic structure into that cell and
[00:30:57] then that that genome will start start
[00:31:00] duplicating from there. So that you can
[00:31:02] start doing and I think that's coming
[00:31:04] along. Certainly they do it with pets. I
[00:31:06] mean, you just saw this uh Tom Brady
[00:31:08] just had his dog cloned. I mean, he had
[00:31:10] a dog he really loved and so he just got
[00:31:13] a dog cloned. I mean, there there are
[00:31:15] these companies that will do it for you.
[00:31:18] >> Um, well, it you know what's going it's
[00:31:23] going to be next people is what I think
[00:31:25] about. You know, I'm I'm really not that
[00:31:27] concerned about the dog, but uh uh when
[00:31:30] you can start doing it with people and
[00:31:32] you can start making a superhuman race,
[00:31:35] I mean, that that that is deeply
[00:31:38] concerning to me. You know, it's
[00:31:39] interesting. You think about this. If if
[00:31:41] you have you you you you can have
[00:31:44] you have this fertilized egg and
[00:31:49] it seems as if this is life. This egg is
[00:31:53] now fertilized. And God puts a spirit
[00:31:58] in this. Now, sometimes this egg will
[00:32:00] split into two. And now you have
[00:32:02] identical twins.
[00:32:04] And if there was a spirit there, it's
[00:32:06] like God puts another spirit in that
[00:32:09] other egg as well that is just formed.
[00:32:12] They just split off this first one
[00:32:13] because you get two independent entities
[00:32:16] that are identical twins. And they each
[00:32:18] have a spirit, the spirit of God that
[00:32:20] he's placed within them, that he's put
[00:32:22] this this spirit within them. They've
[00:32:24] been made in the image of God. So when
[00:32:26] you think about it in this context, you
[00:32:28] see that that God seems to put a spirit
[00:32:32] along with that physical that that
[00:32:34] physical fertilized system. There seems
[00:32:37] to be a spirit there that he puts along
[00:32:38] with it.
[00:32:40] What would he do now that you have a
[00:32:43] cloned system? My guess is there'll be a
[00:32:46] spirit along with it.
[00:32:48] But you you talk about uh uh things that
[00:32:51] you can do. So if if if I could if I
[00:32:53] could take steroids and be 10% faster
[00:32:57] than anybody else, I mean that's that's
[00:32:59] a huge advantage. If I could take some
[00:33:02] sort of drug and be 20% smarter than
[00:33:06] everybody else, that is a huge
[00:33:08] advantage. And we would say, you know,
[00:33:10] that's that's unfair. You know, we c we
[00:33:12] can't have that in sports. We can't have
[00:33:14] that in competition. But you could do
[00:33:16] that. You could do that. I mean, you
[00:33:18] could you could make things, people,
[00:33:21] animals that are that are advanced. Um,
[00:33:25] it's kind of frightening because you
[00:33:27] know what people would do with such a
[00:33:30] thing? You know, every technology has
[00:33:32] advances. People say, "Aren't you afraid
[00:33:34] that this technology that you're
[00:33:36] developing might be used in the wrong
[00:33:38] way?" I say, "Yeah, certainly I think
[00:33:39] about it, but all technologies are like
[00:33:41] that. people are are really devious and
[00:33:43] we can figure out how to do things and
[00:33:46] control things and weed out certain
[00:33:48] people and have others others coming
[00:33:50] forward. So yeah, I think it's a danger
[00:33:52] because as as the Bible says, Jesus
[00:33:55] didn't trust anyone. He didn't entrust
[00:33:57] himself to anyone because he knew what
[00:33:59] was in all men. You don't need to be an
[00:34:00] economist to see what's happening. The
[00:34:02] dollar is in trouble. It's getting
[00:34:04] weaker. It's sad, but we're not in
[00:34:06] charge of it. So, we have to respond
[00:34:07] appropriately in ways to protect our
[00:34:09] families. When paper money dies, it's
[00:34:11] going to be replaced by programmable
[00:34:13] digital currency or gold. Gold survives.
[00:34:16] The same Americans who think they're
[00:34:17] protecting themselves with gold are the
[00:34:19] ones getting ripped off by big gold
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[00:35:00] >> It's increasingly obvious what's in all
[00:35:02] men. I would say it's such a change and
[00:35:06] advances in biotech get relatively
[00:35:08] little publicity outside of biotech,
[00:35:10] outside of the specialized world you
[00:35:11] guys live in.
[00:35:12] >> But my understanding is we're moving
[00:35:14] close to what you're saying.
[00:35:16] And that's that's something that at 56 I
[00:35:19] was worried about my whole childhood.
[00:35:21] Like one of the lessons of World War II
[00:35:22] is creepy race science is like bad. It's
[00:35:24] immoral. You shouldn't be doing stuff
[00:35:26] like that. I mean, I remember hearing
[00:35:27] that in school and like nodding along
[00:35:28] and yeah, that's good. And it does seem
[00:35:31] like we're there are a lot of
[00:35:33] well-funded people trying to build like
[00:35:36] I hate to use a phrase master race but
[00:35:38] like people who are engineered to be
[00:35:40] over everyone else and that just seems
[00:35:42] like a huge problem or am I letting my
[00:35:46] imagination get away with me? Well, I I
[00:35:48] mean there there's massive restrictions
[00:35:50] upon that type of thing in the United
[00:35:52] States for government funded research
[00:35:55] and I don't as as far as I know that's
[00:35:58] not going on in the United States, but
[00:36:01] there are nations around the world where
[00:36:03] there's no inhibition on this type of
[00:36:05] thing. So, so um I wouldn't be surprised
[00:36:09] if they're already there. I mean, if you
[00:36:11] can clone a dog, um, we're not that far
[00:36:15] from from doing this as well with
[00:36:17] >> And what would that look like?
[00:36:18] [clears throat]
[00:36:19] >> Well, you you you you could make them
[00:36:22] look all identical if you wanted to, or
[00:36:24] you could make them a little bit
[00:36:27] different. Um, they they would be
[00:36:29] superhuman in many ways. I I I wouldn't
[00:36:31] think that you would want to make an
[00:36:33] infirmed race.
[00:36:34] >> No, that's right.
[00:36:35] >> Yeah, they'd be superhuman. And um
[00:36:39] >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's an
[00:36:40] interesting now I don't work in that
[00:36:42] area but uh uh we can't be far from
[00:36:45] that. Now now there there are many good
[00:36:47] advances that can come from this. So if
[00:36:49] you have a child with a genetic disorder
[00:36:51] >> for sure
[00:36:52] >> you you you you the prospect of saying
[00:36:56] look to see a doctor and the doctor says
[00:36:59] don't worry we can take care of that. I
[00:37:01] mean imagine what that would do to a
[00:37:02] parent. They'd be like you can take care
[00:37:05] of my child. My child has autism. You
[00:37:08] can you can just you can just
[00:37:11] spice out this segment and put in
[00:37:13] another segment where you just change a
[00:37:15] few of the nucleotides on there and he's
[00:37:16] going to be better. Yeah, we can do
[00:37:19] that. I mean, the hope for that is so
[00:37:21] good. Or I'm predisposed to having
[00:37:23] breast cancer as many women find
[00:37:25] themselves in their families and they're
[00:37:28] >> there. I mean the horrendous thing is
[00:37:30] that we still lop off body parts in this
[00:37:32] day and age to deal with this and women
[00:37:35] even doing it preemptively
[00:37:37] >> and a lot of women
[00:37:38] >> a lot of women and if you can say no no
[00:37:40] no we can deal with that
[00:37:42] that is tremendous hope and that's where
[00:37:45] most of this is going this that's why
[00:37:47] this is continuing to be developed to
[00:37:49] offer these people hope are there things
[00:37:52] that you could do to to modify people
[00:37:54] yeah you can it could be abused it could
[00:37:57] definitely be abused
[00:37:58] And it's the same with many things. I
[00:38:00] mean, a car can be an ambulance. A car
[00:38:02] can be a getaway car from a from a
[00:38:04] murder and a bank robber. I mean,
[00:38:05] everything is like that,
[00:38:07] >> right? But we, you know, we arrest the
[00:38:09] getaway car driver.
[00:38:12] >> And I don't I that's the point. Of
[00:38:14] course, everything, you know, chainsaw
[00:38:16] is a tool or a weapon. I get it.
[00:38:17] >> Yeah.
[00:38:17] >> Nitroglycerin. But I don't think we're
[00:38:20] making any effort as collectively to
[00:38:24] say, "Wait a second." Well, the
[00:38:25] scientific community is
[00:38:27] >> Okay, good.
[00:38:28] >> Oh, it is. In in fact, there there there
[00:38:30] was there was uh there was an abuse of
[00:38:34] this that came out in China about 5
[00:38:37] years ago, six years ago, and it was the
[00:38:41] kibash was put on this from the
[00:38:42] community.
[00:38:43] >> What was the abuse? Uh uh there there
[00:38:46] was a a an operation where they they
[00:38:49] were taking human embryos, a human
[00:38:51] embryo and and modifying the genome a
[00:38:54] little bit and they they said it was all
[00:38:57] much like they had done with with with
[00:38:59] with uh um uh uh with animals and and it
[00:39:04] was done on a human and it came out and
[00:39:07] the professors I mean the Chinese
[00:39:09] professor I think was was eventually put
[00:39:12] in prison. I mean there was an huge
[00:39:13] amount of pressure and the scientific
[00:39:15] community uh really came after the
[00:39:17] people people there was there was an
[00:39:19] American who was collaborating with them
[00:39:22] and his career was was about ended as a
[00:39:25] result of this and uh and I knew him. I
[00:39:28] mean he's a nice guy. I knew him. Yeah.
[00:39:30] and and uh uh but it's about was about
[00:39:33] the end of his career and and I think
[00:39:35] there was a 5-year penalty that you
[00:39:38] couldn't get government funding again
[00:39:39] and which is going to toast a career
[00:39:42] that's the end of the career uh for for
[00:39:44] an American academic um so so the
[00:39:48] community came strongly against that
[00:39:51] worldwide world worldwide biochemistry
[00:39:53] community
[00:39:55] >> that's that's the one that got that made
[00:39:58] the news are the countries is doing this
[00:40:01] that it's not making the news. We can
[00:40:04] only imagine.
[00:40:04] >> Yeah, we can only imagine. I think we
[00:40:06] can guess.
[00:40:07] >> Yeah.
[00:40:07] >> Um, evolution.
[00:40:10] You flew to St. Louis to hear about the
[00:40:13] chemistry of evolution. Can you just
[00:40:15] describe for people who are not
[00:40:18] uh in your business what the theory of
[00:40:21] evolution is and then if you could tell
[00:40:23] us what you think is incomplete or wrong
[00:40:25] about it.
[00:40:26] Well, you know, most of what I speak on
[00:40:29] is origin of life, which is before
[00:40:31] [clears throat] you have life. What
[00:40:33] evolution does is it takes from that
[00:40:35] first cell, that first cell, and says,
[00:40:38] how do we get the diversity of what we
[00:40:40] have today from that first cell?
[00:40:42] >> So most of or all of origin of life is
[00:40:45] getting to that first cell, Luca, it's
[00:40:47] called the last universal common
[00:40:48] ancestor. So that cell which happened to
[00:40:52] be the progenitor of all life and that
[00:40:54] cell then modified into the diversity of
[00:40:57] life that you see today. That's what
[00:40:59] that's what evolution tries to
[00:41:00] >> adapting to its physical environment.
[00:41:02] Right.
[00:41:02] >> Adapt to its physical environment. Yes.
[00:41:04] And and so so um
[00:41:09] to do that it's it's a huge huge leap. A
[00:41:12] huge leap to have that cell go into the
[00:41:16] diversity of what we have. Now you talk
[00:41:17] about the the evolution. The the
[00:41:21] definition of evolution is constantly
[00:41:23] evolving. Constantly evolving. It's
[00:41:25] constantly changing.
[00:41:27] >> And and uh uh so what I grew up on was
[00:41:31] that it was it was uh natural selection
[00:41:34] and random mutation. Exactly. Random
[00:41:36] mutation, natural selection. That's what
[00:41:38] a lot of us grew up on. Uh what Darwin
[00:41:41] uh uh was talking about, he was talking
[00:41:43] about natural selection. and he knew
[00:41:45] less about the mutation aspect and then
[00:41:48] the mutation and natural selection is
[00:41:50] what what pulled this forward.
[00:41:52] >> So natural mutation is as I understand
[00:41:53] is the idea that you know you'll have
[00:41:55] like an anomaly and it turns out that
[00:41:57] anomaly is is better suited to the
[00:41:59] environment and so that creature that
[00:42:02] organism is more successful in breeding
[00:42:04] and then that becomes the dominant
[00:42:05] strain.
[00:42:06] >> Yes. And that that that that's what that
[00:42:08] is and then and then um uh and
[00:42:12] but there are two distinct things.
[00:42:14] There's something called micro evolution
[00:42:16] and there's macroeolution. Micro
[00:42:18] evolution we definitely see. We can see
[00:42:22] changes over time and say the the bill
[00:42:24] of a bird.
[00:42:25] >> Mhm.
[00:42:26] >> And you can see you can see what we do
[00:42:29] in my own lab because we work a lot with
[00:42:31] uh bacteria and trying to knock out
[00:42:33] super bacteria is that you can see uh
[00:42:36] changes in bacteria to make them more
[00:42:39] antibiotic resistance. This is what we
[00:42:41] see that that that the these antibiotics
[00:42:44] don't work anymore and these are very
[00:42:47] small mutations that may happen very
[00:42:50] small permutations.
[00:42:52] >> More often than not what happens for
[00:42:54] example with a bacterium is that is that
[00:42:56] you will have a population of bacteria
[00:42:59] and you treat them with an antibiotic
[00:43:01] and there's one or two in this huge
[00:43:04] population that happen to have some
[00:43:06] level of resistance. Those are the only
[00:43:08] two left and then they start to
[00:43:10] propagate. And so that's why if you've
[00:43:12] ever been told to take these
[00:43:14] antibiotics, finish the whole regime,
[00:43:16] correct? Or else you leave the really
[00:43:19] strong ones, the really ones that are
[00:43:21] somewhat resistant and then they become
[00:43:23] the dominant population.
[00:43:25] >> And so you really want to knock all of
[00:43:27] these out. And so so you see these and
[00:43:29] then they start sharing their DNA
[00:43:31] between them. And bacteria are amazing.
[00:43:32] They they even have these little tubules
[00:43:34] that they can transfer some of their DNA
[00:43:37] to another one. And and you see this and
[00:43:39] now you have a new population that that
[00:43:41] that is resistant.
[00:43:42] >> That sounds like intent.
[00:43:44] >> Oh, it sounds Yeah. I mean, these are
[00:43:46] insidious little things. I mean,
[00:43:47] >> but what is that? I mean, that
[00:43:49] >> that is
[00:43:50] >> that sounds like behavior that suggests
[00:43:51] consciousness.
[00:43:53] Well, many people actually say that
[00:43:55] there is consciousness within a cell for
[00:43:57] these very reasons that they they they
[00:44:00] act according to the things that are put
[00:44:02] upon them. You know, so this is a new
[00:44:04] concept that's being put forward. It's
[00:44:05] different than the consciousness that
[00:44:07] you and I think of course who am I? But
[00:44:09] but but they are responding to their
[00:44:11] environment. Something has come at them
[00:44:13] and they've responded in in in in to try
[00:44:16] to get around this. So yeah, this is so
[00:44:18] so
[00:44:19] >> well that maybe consciousness is not the
[00:44:21] right word. Maybe consciousness is not
[00:44:22] the right word, but that word is being
[00:44:24] used anyway, right?
[00:44:25] >> Yeah, it's being used. All right. So, so
[00:44:28] you can see these small permutations,
[00:44:30] but what you never see never see are
[00:44:33] what is called body plan changes. Body
[00:44:36] plan changes. And this encompasses many
[00:44:39] things, but but you you see the these
[00:44:42] these uh genetic uh uh networks would
[00:44:45] have to change. So, a body plan change
[00:44:47] would be an invertebrae, something that
[00:44:49] does not have a spine, going to a
[00:44:51] vertebrae, something that has a spine.
[00:44:53] Something like like a worm going into
[00:44:55] something that has a spine. You never
[00:44:58] ever see that. You never see. Now, there
[00:45:01] are hypotheses where people will see
[00:45:04] fossils and they'll say, "Oh, this must
[00:45:06] have been a precursor to this." They
[00:45:08] will never see the transformative thing.
[00:45:10] That is that is for sure. And I'm not
[00:45:12] the only person that is saying that.
[00:45:13] It's not just Jim Tour the creationist
[00:45:16] saying this. And the problem with
[00:45:19] >> to be clear, the fossil record does not
[00:45:20] support the theory of evolution as at
[00:45:23] least as you're defining it.
[00:45:24] >> Well, the yes, it does not support body
[00:45:26] plan changes. There are small
[00:45:28] permutations like the ones that I have
[00:45:31] just told you, but you will not see body
[00:45:32] plan changes. It
[00:45:33] >> is any fossil record that we found.
[00:45:35] >> No, the the only thing that you will see
[00:45:37] is people will hypothesize over that
[00:45:40] fossil. They'll see a fossil here and a
[00:45:42] fossil here and they'll say, "Oh," and
[00:45:45] then they'll see a fossil here. This
[00:45:46] must have been the transition to this,
[00:45:48] >> right?
[00:45:49] >> And they'll hypothesize with that. But
[00:45:51] it doesn't have to be the transition.
[00:45:53] This is strictly a hypothesis. And so,
[00:45:55] we don't see that in the fossil record.
[00:45:58] Many people don't see that in the fossil
[00:45:59] record. Some people will say we
[00:46:00] absolutely see that. The the absolute
[00:46:03] people are actually becoming less and
[00:46:05] less. The the problem with this in order
[00:46:07] to have a body plan change you you you
[00:46:10] have you have to have the these these
[00:46:13] genetic networks these genetic networks
[00:46:16] are going to have to change. So the
[00:46:17] genetic networks occur very early on in
[00:46:21] life. This is the wiring that is going
[00:46:23] to occur to run this system. You clip
[00:46:26] one wire it is catastro catastrophically
[00:46:30] lethal to the organism. It is lethal.
[00:46:33] Everything goes haywire. And people will
[00:46:35] say this and there has never been an
[00:46:37] example of this where you can get into
[00:46:39] these early genetic networks and start
[00:46:41] changing things because if you change
[00:46:44] one little thing you have to have many
[00:46:45] many downstream things. So it's not one
[00:46:48] little change can change this organism.
[00:46:50] No no no no it's not going to happen.
[00:46:52] Now we there have been experiments like
[00:46:55] like uh Linsky what what he's done is
[00:46:58] he's looked at bacteria. Bacteria can
[00:47:00] can can multiply every 20 minutes, you
[00:47:04] know. So, so with a person, it might be
[00:47:06] every 20 years. Bacteria multiply every
[00:47:08] 20 minutes. And this is why you can feel
[00:47:10] fine right now and then after a few
[00:47:12] hours, you're like, "Wow,
[00:47:14] >> right,
[00:47:14] >> I feel terrible. I got to go home
[00:47:15] because this bacteria is is is doubling
[00:47:18] doubling every 20 minutes. Doubling in
[00:47:21] every 20 minutes. It doubles its
[00:47:22] population. That's what bacteria do."
[00:47:24] And so he has studied since 1988 and
[00:47:28] continues to this day studying the
[00:47:30] multiplication of bacteria and putting
[00:47:33] it under certain stresses to see what's
[00:47:36] going to evolve. He's never seen a body
[00:47:38] plan change. Nowhere close. The only
[00:47:41] thing he's seen is a little change in a
[00:47:43] in a a a citrate operation. And and I've
[00:47:46] done a podcast on that with with uh one
[00:47:48] of my colleagues who is a who is a a a a
[00:47:52] uh biologist and he talks about how that
[00:47:55] that change what was actually in the
[00:47:57] bacteria was already there and it just
[00:47:59] turned that gene back on. It was it's
[00:48:01] just a regulatory thing. But in any case
[00:48:04] yet no body plan changes. We've never
[00:48:06] seen the macro evolution, the body plan
[00:48:09] change. Never has been seen. And here we
[00:48:12] had uh what was equivalent in bacteria
[00:48:15] to 2 million years of population
[00:48:18] changes. 2 million years. So we and and
[00:48:20] and we've never seen that. And so the
[00:48:22] what we see and we don't even see in the
[00:48:24] fossil record this. What we see is the
[00:48:26] Cambridge explosion. The Cambridge
[00:48:29] explosion.
[00:48:31] the Cambrian Cambrian explosion is that
[00:48:34] you went from from uh uh about 540
[00:48:38] million years ago is presumed when this
[00:48:40] thing happened is all of a sudden you
[00:48:42] burst on the scene with all these new
[00:48:44] species, all these new life forms and it
[00:48:47] happened over a short period of time, a
[00:48:49] little over 500 million years ago is
[00:48:51] what the fossil record is suggesting.
[00:48:54] You don't see transitional forms. You
[00:48:56] don't see transitional forms before they
[00:48:58] appear. They just appear as if God spoke
[00:49:02] it into existence as if God said
[00:49:05] uh let let these kind form there is an
[00:49:09] explosion and even even firm people like
[00:49:13] like uh uh uh Steven Gould who was a
[00:49:16] staunch uh uh uh evolutionist said you
[00:49:18] know this thing just pops out here and
[00:49:21] so he spoke about
[00:49:22] >> wait but doesn't that kind of blow up
[00:49:24] the theory right there
[00:49:25] >> yes it does it it it it gives evolution
[00:49:28] is is real,
[00:49:30] >> you get
[00:49:31] >> then there would of course be a a
[00:49:33] gradual ramp up to that from a single
[00:49:34] cell
[00:49:35] >> and there is not and there is not and
[00:49:37] that's where he came up with this idea
[00:49:38] of what he called punctuated equilibrium
[00:49:40] everything is in stasis then all of a
[00:49:42] sudden boom it happened and then it
[00:49:45] stays
[00:49:45] >> what does that mean punctuated that that
[00:49:47] was his definition of this so so I'm I'm
[00:49:50] not alone in this I mean I mean Lavine
[00:49:52] Wagner uh uh Davidson uh Irwin uh the
[00:49:57] these these key biologists are saying
[00:50:00] the these these these genetic networks
[00:50:04] are not going to allow body plan changes
[00:50:06] to happen. And so there's a big problem.
[00:50:08] >> But how do they explain the Cambrian
[00:50:10] explosion?
[00:50:11] >> Uh there is no explanation for that.
[00:50:13] There's no explanation.
[00:50:14] >> That seems like a big stumbling block of
[00:50:17] faith and evolution to me.
[00:50:18] >> Yeah. So we should see this seamless
[00:50:20] transition
[00:50:22] >> if it were a gradual process. And in the
[00:50:25] Cambridge explosion, we we don't see
[00:50:28] that. There's this abrupt change, an
[00:50:30] abrupt change where many new species
[00:50:32] burst forth. So, we don't see body plant
[00:50:35] changes. So, you are absolutely right. I
[00:50:37] mean, I've I've seen some of the things
[00:50:38] that you've said. We certainly seen
[00:50:40] micro evolution. Now, that's why this
[00:50:42] this term evolution is is sort of a
[00:50:44] squealy sort of thing. You got to that
[00:50:46] that that uh um it depends on how you
[00:50:49] define this thing. We certainly see
[00:50:51] micro evolution these small changes
[00:50:53] within a kind within a species you see
[00:50:56] these small
[00:50:56] >> but we don't see the creation of new
[00:50:57] species through evolution
[00:51:00] >> I I have to be careful of that because
[00:51:02] sometimes in plants you can have a
[00:51:04] doubling of the genome so for some
[00:51:07] unknown reason and so in that in that
[00:51:09] sense you could say it is a new species
[00:51:11] that is formed. I I was thinking among
[00:51:14] animals,
[00:51:15] >> right? And and you don't see and you
[00:51:17] don't see the body plan change. You
[00:51:19] don't see new digits coming. You don't
[00:51:22] see new organs. You don't see
[00:51:24] unicellular going to multisellular
[00:51:26] organisms, which you would have to have
[00:51:28] a lot of. You have to have luca, this
[00:51:30] one cell going now to multisellular
[00:51:33] organisms. This we don't see. And uh
[00:51:35] again it gets back to this the the this
[00:51:38] regulatory
[00:51:40] uh uh gene genetic network. This
[00:51:44] regulatory genetic network which is this
[00:51:46] whole wiring plan. It is extremely
[00:51:49] complex and you go monkeying with one
[00:51:51] thing in this and it and all of this is
[00:51:54] formed very early on. And now once this
[00:51:57] thing is formed you you change this. I
[00:51:58] mean I mean you you you've lost a digit.
[00:52:01] It's huge and it's usually usually
[00:52:04] highly lethal. And again, I'm not the
[00:52:06] only one saying this. People are going
[00:52:07] to say, "Well, Tor, you're a
[00:52:09] creationist. That's why you're saying
[00:52:11] this." No, I mean, what what are you
[00:52:13] going to say to Davidson? What are you
[00:52:14] going to say to Lavine? What are you
[00:52:15] going to say to to Irwin? What are you
[00:52:17] going to say to Wagner? I mean, these
[00:52:18] are key guys that are saying exactly the
[00:52:20] same thing. The the these these uh these
[00:52:23] regulatory gene uh networks are a huge
[00:52:27] problem. Well, it sounds like everyone's
[00:52:31] moving I mean toward your view toward
[00:52:34] creationism of some kind because if
[00:52:35] they're using the term design then that
[00:52:38] of course implies a designer. Like how
[00:52:40] do you get design without a designer?
[00:52:42] >> Implies designer. I mean some people go
[00:52:44] far so far as to say it looks designed
[00:52:49] but of course it couldn't be. And and so
[00:52:52] they'll go as far as to say something.
[00:52:54] >> Now we're getting into religious faith.
[00:52:55] If they're telling me that they know
[00:52:58] something and that's the starting point
[00:53:01] against which they evaluate their
[00:53:02] observations, that's religious faith.
[00:53:04] That's not science, is it?
[00:53:05] >> Well, I I I I would agree with you. It
[00:53:08] it it is a terrific problem for them.
[00:53:09] It's a terrific problem and and the more
[00:53:11] we learn about the cell, the more we see
[00:53:14] that that this thing is an amazing
[00:53:16] entity and uh um it certainly looks
[00:53:19] designed. So why is it given that at
[00:53:22] best the orthodoxies around evolution
[00:53:26] that I grew up with or thought I grew up
[00:53:27] with to the extent I paid attention are
[00:53:30] being questioned and haven't actually
[00:53:32] held up to scrutiny and and the
[00:53:35] knowledge that we've accumulated. Why is
[00:53:37] it still considered like a dealiller to
[00:53:41] question evolution?
[00:53:42] >> Yeah. So,
[00:53:45] >> I bet I haven't checked your Wikipedia
[00:53:47] page, but I bet it's on there
[00:53:49] >> that you've questioned evolution.
[00:53:50] >> Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. It's there. It's
[00:53:52] there. [laughter]
[00:53:54] >> Good guess.
[00:53:56] So, um
[00:53:58] origin [clears throat] of life is is is
[00:54:02] a little thing compared to evolution.
[00:54:04] Evolution, that's the holy cow. I mean,
[00:54:07] that that's the thing you don't touch.
[00:54:09] Evolution, there's so much around
[00:54:11] evolution. There's whole departments on
[00:54:12] evolutionary biology in in in every
[00:54:15] university,
[00:54:15] >> of course.
[00:54:17] >> And I'm not I would never say we
[00:54:19] shouldn't we should stop teaching
[00:54:21] evolution. I would say that we need to
[00:54:24] teach the problems with evolution and
[00:54:26] put those upfront and all over so people
[00:54:29] can see the huge problems with this. Uh
[00:54:32] each year we're learning more and it
[00:54:34] makes it more difficult. And I'm I'm
[00:54:35] going to be totally blasted for this
[00:54:37] thing and and there's going to be
[00:54:39] there'll be a hundred YouTube videos
[00:54:40] that are going to go and and and and try
[00:54:42] to contest with this. But my position is
[00:54:45] getting stronger all the time. Show me
[00:54:47] the molecular basis because I'm a
[00:54:49] chemist. I want to see the molecular
[00:54:51] basis for this. Show me the molecular
[00:54:53] basis on how you can have gross body
[00:54:56] plan changes. As of right now, it is not
[00:54:59] there. Now, if somebody knows this, come
[00:55:02] forward. take with take me through the
[00:55:05] chemistry that makes these vast body
[00:55:07] plan changes. I don't understand it. And
[00:55:09] as a chemist, who better who should be
[00:55:13] able to understand this better than me?
[00:55:14] I mean, who should be able to understand
[00:55:16] it better than me? Certainly not the
[00:55:18] biologist. The biologist doesn't talk at
[00:55:20] the at the chemical level. So, so maybe
[00:55:22] the biochemist maybe the biochemist
[00:55:24] would come forward and and show me the
[00:55:27] organic chemist the the molecular
[00:55:29] pathway for how these body plan changes
[00:55:32] would occur.
[00:55:33] >> And no one's no one's taking you up on
[00:55:35] that.
[00:55:35] >> No, nobody's taking me up. And no,
[00:55:37] nobody will. They'll make a bunch of
[00:55:38] YouTube videos, but they won't sit down
[00:55:40] and go through the chemistry involved.
[00:55:42] >> So, the question is more philosophical
[00:55:44] than scientific, but like why the
[00:55:45] YouTube videos? Why the resistance? It
[00:55:48] seems to me if you never mentioned your
[00:55:50] religious faith and I heard this, I
[00:55:52] would say, "That guy's a scientist. He's
[00:55:54] making a completely rational case based
[00:55:56] on measurable observations."
[00:55:59] And I wouldn't be mad at you. I'd be
[00:56:01] like, "That's really interesting." But
[00:56:02] people are mad at you and mad at anyone
[00:56:04] who questions this. What is that? Where
[00:56:07] does that come from?
[00:56:08] >> Well, I I I mean, let let me underscore
[00:56:10] it for you. I'm not I'm ba based on my
[00:56:13] record. I'm not just a regular
[00:56:15] scientist. I think it I mean the numbers
[00:56:18] came out a few years ago. I was in the
[00:56:20] 0.0001%
[00:56:22] of of scientists based on the metrics of
[00:56:25] of how you determine accomplishments. Uh
[00:56:28] uh something called H index something
[00:56:30] called a number of publications
[00:56:32] something called you know the number of
[00:56:35] citations and things like that. So so
[00:56:38] you would think that I of all people
[00:56:40] should be able to understand this. And
[00:56:43] why is it that I can't? Number one,
[00:56:46] [snorts] why is it that that when I say
[00:56:48] that I can't, it causes such problems
[00:56:50] for people?
[00:56:51] >> That's it right there. What is that?
[00:56:52] >> Now, the YouTubers, they'll come forward
[00:56:55] and they'll start saying it. But the
[00:56:57] expert scientists, the PhDs in this
[00:57:00] area, they don't they don't come forth
[00:57:03] and tell me the problems with this. They
[00:57:05] don't come forward and show me the the
[00:57:07] the molecular pathway to this. The
[00:57:10] people who really should know are not
[00:57:12] the ones coming forward. And the people
[00:57:14] who don't know, the people who know very
[00:57:17] little, they're the ones coming forward
[00:57:19] and saying this. That's the problem. Why
[00:57:22] doesn't the community do this? You know,
[00:57:23] you know, people have come with
[00:57:25] scientific ideas before and and and and
[00:57:28] that were that people thought was
[00:57:30] totally outlandish and then they've been
[00:57:31] proved wrong that that that Yeah, they
[00:57:34] were outlandish.
[00:57:35] >> The whole history of science is that.
[00:57:36] >> Yeah. And and so why is it that they
[00:57:39] won't come forward?
[00:57:40] >> So and and and I can tell you part of
[00:57:42] the problem is they cut your funding and
[00:57:45] they they they make it very difficult
[00:57:46] for you. You don't get into their
[00:57:48] societies anymore.
[00:57:49] >> But but what's that? I mean I know very
[00:57:51] little about science as I'm I'm sure is
[00:57:53] obvious. I know a lot about lying and
[00:57:55] propaganda. And I know that when you see
[00:57:57] a lot of it, there's something
[00:57:59] underneath it that is being protected.
[00:58:01] There's a reason of all the things to be
[00:58:03] mad about. someone quote denying
[00:58:05] evolution, denying like you're denying
[00:58:08] the Holocaust. I mean, really, it's a
[00:58:09] moral crime. I mean, they frame it like
[00:58:10] you've committed like a crime. You're
[00:58:12] not just
[00:58:13] >> um what is that? Like, why do they care
[00:58:16] so much? There's something underneath
[00:58:19] all of this that's very important if
[00:58:21] they're defending it with this level of
[00:58:23] viciousness. I
[00:58:24] >> I agree. That might be better for a
[00:58:26] philosopher to answer. When I think
[00:58:29] about the human beings that I know is is
[00:58:32] that is first of all they've made their
[00:58:34] career around this thing. Our textbooks
[00:58:38] are built totally around this thing.
[00:58:40] This is all people know. This is all
[00:58:42] people know and and uh uh it puts people
[00:58:45] in a position of power. We know this
[00:58:47] sort of thing and uh um and it is it is
[00:58:51] frightening to people. So So in in my
[00:58:54] career, I've seen things cut. I've seen
[00:58:56] grants cut. I've I've been I've had two
[00:58:58] people from two different federal
[00:59:00] agencies, two different federal agencies
[00:59:02] come to my office because they did not
[00:59:04] even want to put this in an email to me.
[00:59:07] And they said, "You
[00:59:08] >> what?"
[00:59:09] >> Yes. They said, "Jim, you can stop
[00:59:11] writing proposals because they're never
[00:59:14] going to fund you. They're never going
[00:59:15] to fund you in this agency. You're not
[00:59:18] going to get funded." And uh I I've even
[00:59:21] had a proposal that was that that got a
[00:59:24] very high score and And uh um and then I
[00:59:28] I called the program director and I
[00:59:30] said, 'What what happened? This was the
[00:59:33] what happened? I mean, at this score,
[00:59:34] this should have been funded. He says,
[00:59:36] "You weren't funded." It was a shock to
[00:59:39] him. Someone above him nixed this. So,
[00:59:43] are there are there power brokers on
[00:59:45] this now? Now, uh uh so two federal
[00:59:48] agency people told me I can stop writing
[00:59:50] proposals to their
[00:59:51] >> because you had questioned the orthodoxy
[00:59:53] on evolution.
[00:59:54] >> Correct.
[00:59:56] man
[00:59:56] >> because I had public it was it was even
[00:59:59] more specific than than that in in
[01:00:02] around the year 2000 uh I had signed a
[01:00:05] statement that was put out that's that
[01:00:07] questioned that that it was carefully
[01:00:10] worded and this was sent to me in an
[01:00:12] email you know how fast you go through
[01:00:13] emails you
[01:00:15] >> I got an email said could you agree to
[01:00:17] this statement that that uh um uh we
[01:00:21] view
[01:00:23] random mutation and natural selection as
[01:00:25] being inadequate to explain uh uh the
[01:00:29] diversity of life. Therefore, further
[01:00:32] research is warranted. That's it. It
[01:00:34] didn't say it's wrong. It just said we
[01:00:37] were skeptical of of of of this simple
[01:00:40] little thing being able to explain the
[01:00:41] diversity of life. Further research is
[01:00:44] warranted. Now, scientists will always
[01:00:47] say always say further research is that
[01:00:50] scientist and because this is how we get
[01:00:52] our money. We wouldn't say, "Well, got
[01:00:53] this figured out. [laughter]
[01:00:55] >> No, no, you take it back. I'm good. You
[01:00:57] don't need the money." No, no. We always
[01:00:59] say that because I signed that
[01:01:02] statement, because of that statement,
[01:01:04] these things started happening. Uh, it
[01:01:07] was in 2005.
[01:01:10] Uh, I, you know, I was never being put
[01:01:12] up for the National Academy of Science.
[01:01:14] And I went to my colleagues. Your
[01:01:16] colleagues are supposed and uh uh now no
[01:01:18] now uh there was one person was in the
[01:01:21] they were both in the National Academy
[01:01:23] of Science. They were the ones that are
[01:01:24] supposed to be putting me up for this.
[01:01:26] One of them was a Nobel Prize winner.
[01:01:29] And the other one was was wasn't a Nobel
[01:01:31] Prize winner, but he was in the National
[01:01:33] Academy. And uh and just ju just so that
[01:01:36] your audience knows it was not Rick
[01:01:38] Smallley. Rick Smallley was a good
[01:01:39] friend of mine a Nobel Prize winner. So
[01:01:41] it was not him. It's two other people.
[01:01:43] And they told me, "Jim, you're not going
[01:01:46] to get in the National Academy of
[01:01:48] Science because you signed that
[01:01:50] statement." I said, "What state? What
[01:01:51] are you talking about?"
[01:01:53] That statement that came to me in an
[01:01:56] email and they said, "Could you agree to
[01:01:57] this?" I said, "Sure, I could agree to
[01:01:59] that.
[01:01:59] >> Who wouldn't agree to that?"
[01:02:00] >> So, so I I said to this this one, the
[01:02:04] one who was a Nobel Prize winner and
[01:02:06] this other I said, "You know, I have
[01:02:08] done as much as anybody getting into the
[01:02:11] academy." And the one Nobel Prize winner
[01:02:13] said, "No, Jim, you've done done as
[01:02:17] much. You've done twice as much and
[01:02:20] you're not getting in twice as much." So
[01:02:23] So that is real. Now I'm in the National
[01:02:25] Academy of Engineering
[01:02:27] >> because of that statement.
[01:02:28] >> Because of that statement. That's what
[01:02:30] they said. And I said I said to them,
[01:02:31] "What is it on this statement that you
[01:02:33] don't like?" Neither of them knew what
[01:02:36] the statement said. I said, "Okay, you
[01:02:37] guys go back and read it and you come
[01:02:39] back and see me and we'll discuss it
[01:02:41] again. We reconvened. They went and they
[01:02:43] read it. They said, "Well, it was
[01:02:44] carefully crafted." I said, "Well, duh.
[01:02:46] You ain't You're not going to get people
[01:02:48] to sign something that's not carefully
[01:02:49] crafted." I said, "What is it?" They
[01:02:51] said, "Well, that statement has been
[01:02:53] used to try to get creationism in
[01:02:55] schools." [laughter] I said, "That had
[01:02:57] nothing to do with me." I mean, that's
[01:02:59] Oh, man. You're living my life. Um, yes,
[01:03:02] I know. [laughter]
[01:03:04] >> Those words have been used by other
[01:03:06] people at other times to do something
[01:03:07] bad. Therefore, your connection to them
[01:03:09] proves your connection to the bad
[01:03:10] people. I see.
[01:03:11] >> Yeah, I've been there. Uh, so I'm
[01:03:14] looking at this and I'm thinking without
[01:03:16] understanding any of the details,
[01:03:18] there's a big story here because we can
[01:03:21] judge the importance of something by the
[01:03:22] reaction to it.
[01:03:25] We must suppress this idea. If enough
[01:03:26] people say that, I want it doesn't mean
[01:03:28] that idea is right. Of course, it
[01:03:29] doesn't. But I want to know what the
[01:03:31] idea is because it's provoking such a
[01:03:34] reaction. And I don't think I've heard
[01:03:36] many ideas that have provoked the kind
[01:03:39] of reaction you're describing. I mean
[01:03:40] this is amazing. So it makes you think
[01:03:43] once for the third time underneath all
[01:03:45] of this is something really big and it's
[01:03:46] bigger than funding and it may be that
[01:03:49] if evolution as we understand it
[01:03:51] macroevolution is not the explanation
[01:03:53] for what we're seeing then there must be
[01:03:57] a a creator. It points to God. That's
[01:04:00] maybe that's the problem.
[01:04:01] >> I think that may be the big problem. And
[01:04:03] and and one one of the data points I
[01:04:05] have on this is that people see my
[01:04:09] content where I start blowing apart
[01:04:12] origin of life and I start questioning
[01:04:15] evolution and they write to me. They
[01:04:17] said, you know, I walked away from my
[01:04:19] faith because of what I was learning in
[01:04:22] high school and in college and now I see
[01:04:26] you saying what you're saying and I see
[01:04:29] these guys don't have it figured out.
[01:04:31] I'm coming back.
[01:04:32] >> Yeah. I'm coming back to my faith. And
[01:04:34] I've had a lot of people tell me that
[01:04:36] they've seen what I have to say and
[01:04:38] they're coming back to faith.
[01:04:39] >> Could it be then from what you just said
[01:04:42] that evolution as it's been described to
[01:04:44] us in school for the last hundred years
[01:04:46] was has been employed as a weapon
[01:04:49] against religious faith.
[01:04:50] >> I think it certainly has been employed
[01:04:52] as a weapon. Uh uh I don't think I don't
[01:04:55] think a lot of scientists go out with
[01:04:57] that intent.
[01:04:58] >> I I believe it. Right. Right. And
[01:04:59] Darwin, you know, probably didn't try to
[01:05:02] overturn Christianity when he wrote
[01:05:04] about the Beagle or whatever, but
[01:05:06] >> or I don't know, maybe he did, but it
[01:05:09] has in effect been used that way. It
[01:05:11] sounds like to me,
[01:05:13] >> it seems like it's drawn a lot of people
[01:05:14] astray now. And I and I will tell you
[01:05:16] that that that some of the people who
[01:05:18] used to come against me on campus were
[01:05:22] the biologists were the biologists. They
[01:05:24] came against me and I and I I the
[01:05:27] students would say, "Oh, the such and
[01:05:28] such biologist is saying these things."
[01:05:30] And I said, "Okay, well, why don't you
[01:05:33] go and tell her that I would be glad to
[01:05:36] go toe-to-toe with her and she can
[01:05:38] explain to me what her trouble is with
[01:05:40] what I say." And then she stopped. She
[01:05:43] stopped saying things about me like
[01:05:45] that. And so, so, uh, um, really when
[01:05:48] when you when you come right to this,
[01:05:51] uh, uh, I don't think that they can
[01:05:53] defend it. I mean, ask them you if we
[01:05:56] don't have a molecular basis for this,
[01:05:58] if we don't have a molecular
[01:06:00] explanation, if you fly over New York
[01:06:02] City at 30,000 ft, you can say, "Oh,
[01:06:05] there's a few structures." But it's when
[01:06:07] you get down into the heart of that
[01:06:08] city, it's when you get under that city
[01:06:10] and you see the infrastructure on all
[01:06:12] the tubes and the thing makes that's the
[01:06:14] that's the chemical basis behind this.
[01:06:16] We have to have a chemical understanding
[01:06:18] for this. And they will not give me a
[01:06:20] chemical understanding. That's when I
[01:06:21] know there's a problem.
[01:06:23] >> It's just funny. Maybe they're punishing
[01:06:24] you for that. I mean, you're not the one
[01:06:26] at fault here. I I wouldn't say you you
[01:06:28] ask a simple question. Can you provide
[01:06:30] the chemical basis for the theory that
[01:06:31] you're telling me is true, and they
[01:06:33] can't, and you're the criminal? How's
[01:06:34] that work?
[01:06:36] >> Yeah. It shakes up the apple cart.
[01:06:38] [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. And and plus
[01:06:40] these people, their whole career has
[01:06:42] been on this. I mean,
[01:06:44] >> well, I've had a lot of careers that
[01:06:45] were totally stupid. And when you find
[01:06:47] out that you're on the wrong side of
[01:06:48] something, you just say so and move on.
[01:06:50] I don't understand. Why would you cling
[01:06:52] to something that you can't defend?
[01:06:55] >> Um, you're a different sort of man. I
[01:06:57] mean, this
[01:06:58] >> I think most people would think that
[01:06:59] makes sense, right?
[01:07:00] >> Uh, no. No. I I think people live live
[01:07:04] lies all the time.
[01:07:06] >> They live lies all the time that that um
[01:07:09] uh and and then they just move on. They
[01:07:11] just move on. But I I I think it's it's
[01:07:15] a real problem now. Now, uh we'll see
[01:07:17] what the community says. I mean, just
[01:07:19] come on forth. Give me give me the h how
[01:07:20] do you how did they deal with these
[01:07:23] regulatory genetic networks? How do they
[01:07:26] deal with this? How do they deal with
[01:07:27] this at the molecular level? How do
[01:07:29] these changes occur? How do you get body
[01:07:31] plan changes? I mean, you you would
[01:07:33] think that they'd come forward. All
[01:07:35] they've got to do is just come forward
[01:07:36] and explain this thing to me. Not on a
[01:07:39] podcast where nobody's going to challen
[01:07:41] me. Explain. Go to go to a whiteboard.
[01:07:44] Go to a blackboard and just start
[01:07:45] drawing it out for me. Show me the
[01:07:46] chemistry. Nobody wants to do this. This
[01:07:49] is what I've challenged people before in
[01:07:50] origin of life. They won't go near a
[01:07:52] blackboard. Won't go near it. Oh, I
[01:07:54] don't need a blackboard. I'll just
[01:07:56] explain. No, show me the science and any
[01:07:58] other thing related to chemistry. You go
[01:08:00] to the blackboard, you draw the
[01:08:01] molecules and show me this is how you do
[01:08:03] it. This is our language. This is the
[01:08:05] language we speak. And now you don't
[01:08:06] want to use the language.
[01:08:09] >> No, use the language of censorship and
[01:08:11] exclusion to get you to be quiet. Again,
[01:08:13] a familiar pattern. So, um, since you've
[01:08:17] basically described an unsolved mystery,
[01:08:21] nobody can really say how, you know, the
[01:08:25] Earth began, life originated, and we
[01:08:28] wound up with this sort of breathtaking
[01:08:30] array of different forms of life.
[01:08:33] That's a mystery. They claim it's not,
[01:08:35] but I think you're you've shown that it
[01:08:37] is. What are the other things that we
[01:08:39] don't know? like as you sort of gaze
[01:08:43] over what we know, what scientists have
[01:08:45] determined to be true, like what are the
[01:08:46] big gaps? Like do we know what sleep is
[01:08:49] for? That's the one I've always
[01:08:51] wondered.
[01:08:52] >> Uh you know, I'm again I'm I'm I'm not a
[01:08:54] biologist, but I I've read a little bit
[01:08:56] about the studies that, for example,
[01:08:58] DARPA has studied this where they tried
[01:09:00] to make it where soldiers wouldn't have
[01:09:02] to sleep, right?
[01:09:03] >> Can we make it so that they don't have
[01:09:04] to sleep? And then what what happens is
[01:09:06] long-term memory goes away. So a lot of
[01:09:09] our memory is is is strengthened when we
[01:09:13] sleep. That's why I said early on in our
[01:09:15] conversation when I first speak to you
[01:09:18] what you're getting this this is
[01:09:20] electronic. I mean this is you're
[01:09:22] getting an understanding of it
[01:09:23] electronically. And then this goes into
[01:09:25] protein synthesis. Then proteins start
[01:09:28] forming to give you the memories of what
[01:09:30] I just said. And then when you go to
[01:09:33] sleep, those will start to strengthen
[01:09:35] and you'll get hardwired interconnects
[01:09:38] in your brain.
[01:09:39] >> Yes.
[01:09:39] >> So that so that the rest of your life
[01:09:41] you might remember this conversation
[01:09:43] that hey there was this chemist that you
[01:09:45] know 20 years ago was telling me this
[01:09:46] and I still remember him his telling me
[01:09:48] this. That's a hardwired inter
[01:09:50] interconnect in your brain that is is
[01:09:52] locked in there. You lose that when you
[01:09:55] don't sleep. You lose the ability to
[01:09:57] have that. And so there are these things
[01:09:59] that strengthen in our sleep. So there's
[01:10:01] a lot going on in our sleep uh um that
[01:10:05] that is is uh that I mean there's
[01:10:07] experts in sleep that that know this
[01:10:10] much better than than than I do. And I'
[01:10:12] I've talked with them at times. It's
[01:10:14] really really quite interesting how they
[01:10:15] they study these brain waves and how how
[01:10:18] when you when you when you really start
[01:10:21] when you start sleeping you have all
[01:10:23] these different waves in going but then
[01:10:26] when you sleep everything starts going
[01:10:28] in unison and everything starts
[01:10:30] resonating in unison. The explanation of
[01:10:32] really what's happening is we may not
[01:10:34] have a detailed explanation. But
[01:10:37] >> are there other parts of the human
[01:10:40] experience or of nature that you look at
[01:10:43] and say that we should understand that
[01:10:45] but we don't know anything about it
[01:10:49] >> uh of natural systems. I look at at so
[01:10:53] many things in nature that I don't
[01:10:54] understand. So I the the the entire
[01:10:57] thing of anatomy
[01:11:00] even the anatomy of a of a cell
[01:11:03] is is is where I ponder all the time. I
[01:11:06] mean how how can this be? How does this
[01:11:07] thing work? How do you build a structure
[01:11:10] like this? How does this anything in
[01:11:12] biology is is so extraordinary? It's
[01:11:15] something we can't go near. Now, I could
[01:11:18] try to duplicate the material of this
[01:11:20] table, and I I would build it out of a a
[01:11:23] a composite of of of
[01:11:27] a plastic of a of a say say um a a a
[01:11:32] nylon plus plus carbon nano tubes, make
[01:11:35] it really strong. So, I could try to
[01:11:37] substitute it out. But to think of
[01:11:39] building the structure of this, no,
[01:11:41] nobody nobody can really fathom how
[01:11:43] amazing this is. I mean, we know what it
[01:11:45] is. It's it's it's these carbohydrate
[01:11:46] strands and the and the these alignments
[01:11:49] between them. Again, this is biology.
[01:11:51] So, biology is is there's a lot of mis
[01:11:53] mystery to biology. There there are
[01:11:56] whole courses, there are whole
[01:11:56] textbooks. So, we understand a lot, but
[01:11:58] there's much more that we don't
[01:12:00] understand about about even this human
[01:12:03] experience. I had seen a talk. So, for
[01:12:05] example, do you know this feeling?
[01:12:08] Somebody's sitting behind you and
[01:12:09] staring at you.
[01:12:10] >> Yes.
[01:12:11] >> And you get this feeling that somebody's
[01:12:13] staring at me. [snorts]
[01:12:14] >> Yes. And people will explain this. Well,
[01:12:16] this has been good. You know, uh uh
[01:12:18] these organisms get it because when when
[01:12:20] prey was staring you down, you would
[01:12:22] know it and you would know to run.
[01:12:24] >> All right. Well, well, okay, fine. You
[01:12:26] want to explain it that way, but that
[01:12:28] doesn't tell me how this is happening.
[01:12:30] How something behind my head that I
[01:12:33] cannot see,
[01:12:35] that I cannot hear, that I cannot feel,
[01:12:38] they're 20 yards behind me, but I know
[01:12:40] they're staring at me. And I'm like, I
[01:12:43] want to look back at them and and and
[01:12:45] and see what's going on. These phenomena
[01:12:48] are are hard to understand. What might I
[01:12:51] might be able to manipulate? Can I
[01:12:53] manipulate something with my mind? Why
[01:12:56] is it that when when a child goes
[01:13:00] through something that a mother senses
[01:13:03] this?
[01:13:04] >> Yes.
[01:13:04] >> They they they don't. My child is
[01:13:06] struggling. There's been no word. Have
[01:13:08] they called you? No. I I I just know
[01:13:11] something's going on. How does a mother
[01:13:13] know this? So there there there's a lot
[01:13:15] of phenomena that we just don't
[01:13:17] understand. And even within the realm of
[01:13:19] science, I mean in science we are told
[01:13:22] we are told that that 70 to 90% of all
[01:13:27] energy and matter is dark energy and
[01:13:29] dark matter. meaning that meaning this
[01:13:32] so for example if I think of of of the
[01:13:34] electromagnetic spectrum
[01:13:36] we see in a very narrow piece of this
[01:13:39] this is the visible spectrum this is
[01:13:41] from 400 nmters to about 750 nmters this
[01:13:45] is where we see it's very narrow the
[01:13:48] entire electromagnetic spectrum is much
[01:13:51] broader goes from gamma rays x-rays
[01:13:56] uh ultraviolet rays and then visible
[01:13:59] where we see And then it goes to near
[01:14:03] infrared, infrared,
[01:14:06] uh, uh, mic radio, microwaves, radio
[01:14:10] waves, all these things that we can
[01:14:13] detect, but we can't see. So when people
[01:14:15] say, "Hey, I'm aware of what's going on
[01:14:16] in my world." No, you're only aware of a
[01:14:18] very narrow bit. Now, we have tools that
[01:14:21] can detect all of this. So, for example,
[01:14:22] I could put a radio here on the table
[01:14:25] and it turn it on and start playing. The
[01:14:27] same waves that are hitting that radio
[01:14:29] are hitting me. I don't feel them. The
[01:14:31] radio detects them. So, we're able to
[01:14:33] So, we can detect things today that
[01:14:36] people 500 years ago couldn't detect.
[01:14:38] But there's a whole type of matter and
[01:14:42] energy that is called dark matter and
[01:14:45] dark energy that we have no ability to
[01:14:48] detect. Not just with my physical body,
[01:14:50] we have no tools to detect them. That's
[01:14:52] why it's called dark matter and dark
[01:14:53] energy. And you say, "Well, how do you
[01:14:55] even know it's there then?"
[01:14:56] >> Good question. And it it's there by
[01:14:59] difference. So in other words, they look
[01:15:00] at the matter and energy that must have
[01:15:03] formed in the creation of the universe
[01:15:05] in the big bang event. And there's a lot
[01:15:08] missing and that is what they call dark
[01:15:12] energy and dark matter. Now that's not
[01:15:14] to say that someday we might have a tool
[01:15:17] that we hey we can detect this dark
[01:15:20] matter. What to us right now we're blind
[01:15:22] to one day we will detect. And I presume
[01:15:26] you you know every year you you know
[01:15:29] there's discoveries I and and and dark
[01:15:32] energy and maybe one day we'll be able
[01:15:34] to tap into that energy and use it as an
[01:15:36] energy form to to run our world. So
[01:15:40] there's lots of things as scientists we
[01:15:42] don't understand. There's far more than
[01:15:44] we don't that we don't understand than
[01:15:47] we do understand.
[01:15:49] We in many ways we don't even know how
[01:15:51] to ask the questions
[01:15:54] of why don't we understand this because
[01:15:55] we don't even know it was there. Why do
[01:15:58] we have the finetuning of the universe?
[01:16:01] Wh why are the physical constants the
[01:16:03] way they are? If you change the dipole
[01:16:05] moment of water just a fraction, dipole
[01:16:08] moment is is the amount of electron
[01:16:10] density on one side of a water molecule
[01:16:12] versus another.
[01:16:14] If that would change just a fraction,
[01:16:16] there's no life. There's no life.
[01:16:19] Everything is fine-tuned for life. How
[01:16:21] do you have all these fine-tuning things
[01:16:23] just for life? It would make you think
[01:16:25] that someone designed this thing
[01:16:28] and and and everything is fine-tuned for
[01:16:31] life in this universe. That we can sit
[01:16:33] on a planet that has an atmosphere and
[01:16:35] and and that we can breathe. That we
[01:16:37] know no other planet that is like this.
[01:16:40] That you can look up to the heavens and
[01:16:41] that you can see the sky. that we have
[01:16:43] an atmosphere that we can see through
[01:16:46] and we can see the heavens. This is a
[01:16:48] very unique place. Why? Why are the
[01:16:51] physical constants the way they are? Who
[01:16:53] made them physical constants? Why are
[01:16:55] they the same constants throughout the
[01:16:56] entire universe? Anywhere I go in the
[01:16:58] universe, the periodic table of elements
[01:17:01] is exactly the same.
[01:17:03] Why
[01:17:07] are these the kind of questions that
[01:17:09] drive you to ponder God or that
[01:17:12] strengthen your faith? Well, my my
[01:17:14] pondering of God was much more simple to
[01:17:17] begin with. I mean, I came to know the
[01:17:19] Lord at the age of 18. So, I wasn't
[01:17:22] thinking much about cellular structure
[01:17:24] and things like that. I was actually
[01:17:25] thinking a lot about women actually at
[01:17:27] that time.
[01:17:27] >> I remember.
[01:17:28] >> Yeah. and and and uh um but but I had an
[01:17:32] experience and uh uh you know I come
[01:17:36] from a secular Jewish home. Somebody
[01:17:39] gave me a presentation of the gospel and
[01:17:42] it hit me. Something hit me and
[01:17:44] especially what hit me was when he you
[01:17:47] know he he had me read a verse that says
[01:17:49] for all have sinned and fall short of
[01:17:51] the glory of God. And I said I'm not a
[01:17:52] sinner. Not a sinner. I I said I never
[01:17:55] killed anybody. I never robbed a bank,
[01:17:57] which is very secular Jewish. You know,
[01:18:00] we don't look at little things like sin.
[01:18:01] It's not like Christians like I've
[01:18:03] sinned every second. I mean, we're not
[01:18:05] was blissfully unaware of of these
[01:18:07] things. And and he then he turned to
[01:18:10] Matthew 5:28 and it says, I say to you,
[01:18:13] everyone who looks at a woman with lust
[01:18:15] for her has committed adultery with her
[01:18:17] already in his heart. And I was deeply
[01:18:20] impacted by that. Deeply impacted. And
[01:18:22] and um you say, why? I I don't know why,
[01:18:25] but I know that when Jesus is speaking
[01:18:27] to somebody,
[01:18:29] his words have enormous power, and it
[01:18:32] just stopped me. I was addicted to
[01:18:34] pornography at that time in my life.
[01:18:36] There was no internet. This was 1977.
[01:18:40] And and uh um I just found these
[01:18:42] magazines when I was working in gas
[01:18:44] stations along the highway outside New
[01:18:46] York City. And my job was to clean
[01:18:48] restrooms and parking lots. So, I've
[01:18:49] I've I've been there. I've done that.
[01:18:52] And uh um I was addicted to pornography
[01:18:55] and and um and so I was immediately
[01:18:57] convicted of my sin and then he took me
[01:19:00] through the gospel message and I was
[01:19:01] thinking about that all the time. Couple
[01:19:03] months later I was alone in my room. I
[01:19:06] got down on my knees and I'm not even
[01:19:08] sure why Jews we stand when we pray. I
[01:19:11] never got on my knees as a Jew.
[01:19:13] Christians I had seen they sit when they
[01:19:15] pray. I got down on my knees and said,
[01:19:16] "Lord, forgive me because I'm a sinner.
[01:19:19] Forgive me." And it was like this piece
[01:19:22] of God just dropped on me and my life
[01:19:24] just this burden of sin that I was
[01:19:26] carrying just just lifted just lifted.
[01:19:30] And then all of a sudden to my right,
[01:19:32] Jesus is standing. Jesus is standing.
[01:19:34] And I I turned toward him. I was already
[01:19:38] on my knees. I put my face to the ground
[01:19:40] and I just uncontrollable weeping
[01:19:43] because love was pouring out upon me.
[01:19:46] Just pouring on me. There was no
[01:19:48] judgment. You'd think he'd judge me for
[01:19:49] my sin. no judgment, there was no
[01:19:51] condemnation, there was no threat, there
[01:19:53] was nothing but love. I never had a day
[01:19:56] like that before. I never had a day like
[01:19:58] that after. That was November 7, 1977.
[01:20:02] And and uh uh that day was unique in my
[01:20:05] life. I don't even know how long I was
[01:20:07] there. I got up, I wiped my tears from
[01:20:10] my eyes, and I couldn't stop thinking
[01:20:12] about Jesus. Here's this Jewish kid
[01:20:14] thinking about Jesus. I had this
[01:20:16] recurring dream night after night. I'm
[01:20:19] telling people about Jesus in my dream.
[01:20:21] There's a Jewish kid telling people
[01:20:23] about Jesus in his dream. It's very odd.
[01:20:26] And and uh I didn't know that that was a
[01:20:29] prophetic dream. That was prophetic.
[01:20:33] God was showing me what my life was
[01:20:35] going to become. I'd be telling
[01:20:36] everybody about Jesus. If I go a week
[01:20:39] without leading somebody
[01:20:42] to Jesus, without leading them to faith
[01:20:45] in Christ and faith in his resurrection
[01:20:47] from the dead, that's a wasted week for
[01:20:49] me. Just through a one-on-one convers,
[01:20:51] if I go week, that's my whole life is
[01:20:53] telling people about Jesus.
[01:20:55] He gave me that in a dream when I was
[01:20:57] 18. I didn't tell anybody. I mean,
[01:21:00] imagine telling somebody, they think I'm
[01:21:01] crazy. I didn't tell anybody what
[01:21:03] happened. Two weeks later, the guy who
[01:21:05] had shared with me several months
[01:21:06] before, he says, Jim, have you received
[01:21:08] Jesus in your heart, I said, I I think I
[01:21:10] have. Why do you ask? He said, 'You
[01:21:12] haven't stopped smiling for weeks.
[01:21:14] You're always smiling now. You look
[01:21:15] different. Something's different about
[01:21:16] you. I said, I feel different. I said,
[01:21:18] how could I how can I stay close to God?
[01:21:20] I've never felt like this before. I was
[01:21:22] never like this as a Jew. I was a
[01:21:24] secular Jew. I mean, and and I I never
[01:21:26] felt close to God before. He said, 'If
[01:21:28] you read your Bible every day, you'll
[01:21:30] stay close to God. If you don't, you
[01:21:32] won't. And I've read the Bible every day
[01:21:35] for 47 years. I started reading a little
[01:21:38] Gideon's Green New Testament, Psalms and
[01:21:40] Proverbs. And then a couple years later,
[01:21:42] I got a regular Bible and I started
[01:21:44] reading that. I read it from Genesis to
[01:21:46] Revelation. I'm done. I start again. I'm
[01:21:48] in no hurry. I just just can spend an
[01:21:51] entire
[01:21:53] several days reading in a in a in just a
[01:21:56] few paragraphs if I feel the Lord
[01:21:58] speaking to me. And just just love it. I
[01:22:00] love this word. And uh um you know the
[01:22:04] whole thing of the whole addiction to
[01:22:06] pornography, it broke that day. I had a
[01:22:08] lot of other problems that I still have,
[01:22:10] but that one he used to show me my sin.
[01:22:14] That one he used to break it to show me
[01:22:16] his power and deliverance. He broke
[01:22:18] that. You know, when when when we are
[01:22:21] delivered from sin, there's nothing like
[01:22:24] it. There's nothing like it. I mean, we
[01:22:26] we're always crying out to God, you
[01:22:28] know, do this in my life. do that, do
[01:22:30] that. But there's nothing like the
[01:22:32] deliverance from sin. Nothing like the
[01:22:35] deliverance from sin. So people can try
[01:22:37] to explain that one away. And I know
[01:22:39] what happened in my life as a result.
[01:22:42] And uh um what does your family say?
[01:22:46] >> Well, my my family's Jewish and and uh I
[01:22:49] told them I told them right away. I told
[01:22:51] them what happened. And my parents
[01:22:54] didn't say much. Um, I learned much
[01:22:58] later that of course they weren't happy,
[01:23:00] but they thought it, my parents told me
[01:23:02] they thought it was a fad. It'll pass.
[01:23:04] My I have an older brother, older
[01:23:06] sister. They had gotten into things and
[01:23:07] they thought it it'll pass.
[01:23:09] >> Yeah.
[01:23:09] >> But it didn't pass. It didn't pass. My
[01:23:12] mother and then I then uh a year and a
[01:23:15] half later, I moved into a house with
[01:23:18] with nine other Christian guys and was
[01:23:20] owned by the pastor of a church there,
[01:23:23] the evangelical chaplain of the
[01:23:24] university. and and uh um and she she
[01:23:28] came she wanted to see what what's going
[01:23:30] on uh what is this happening and I
[01:23:34] remember I I took her to church and and
[01:23:36] uh she was weeping the whole time.
[01:23:39] Really?
[01:23:39] >> Yeah. And I said, "You were really
[01:23:41] you're really touched by this." She
[01:23:43] said, "Why do you think I said I was
[01:23:44] touched?" I said, "You were weeping the
[01:23:46] whole time." She said, "I'm weeping for
[01:23:48] you. I'm [laughter] weeping for you.
[01:23:51] This New York Jewish mother. I'm weeping
[01:23:53] for you." I said, "Why are you weeping
[01:23:54] for me?" She says that you're here. I
[01:23:57] said, "Well, where should I be on a
[01:23:58] Sunday afternoon?" She said, "How about
[01:23:59] the beach like any normal human being?
[01:24:02] [laughter]
[01:24:04] That's a mother."
[01:24:05] >> She sounds pretty open-minded, though. I
[01:24:07] mean, she went with you. She went with
[01:24:09] me. And I said, "Why don't you read the
[01:24:11] New Testament and see what I'm into?"
[01:24:16] And she did. My mother was always a big
[01:24:19] reader. She devoured books. If you saw
[01:24:21] my mother sitting in her home, she was
[01:24:23] always reading a book. She'd love books.
[01:24:25] She loved books. And she'd mark them and
[01:24:27] she'd very careful reader. She read the
[01:24:30] entire New Testament. Something most
[01:24:31] Christians have never done. Yeah.
[01:24:32] >> From beginning to end, she read it.
[01:24:34] >> What' she think?
[01:24:36] >> She she said she said, "I don't blame
[01:24:39] them for killing Jesus. [laughter]
[01:24:42] >> Who does he think he is? this this guy,
[01:24:45] this young guy going around, 30-year-old
[01:24:47] guy going around and telling people that
[01:24:50] that uh uh your whitewashed tombs, these
[01:24:53] people are devoting their lives to
[01:24:55] helping other people. And he's telling
[01:24:57] people that that your whitewashed tombs
[01:24:59] and opposing them, these people are
[01:25:01] helping everybody and he's opposing
[01:25:03] them. She says, "Of course, you're going
[01:25:05] to get yourself killed for this."
[01:25:07] [laughter]
[01:25:08] >> Well, she's actually getting to
[01:25:10] something deep and true.
[01:25:12] >> Yeah. you get yourself killed for
[01:25:13] speaking up. Isn't that what we're
[01:25:15] talking about today?
[01:25:16] >> And uh and then I said, "Okay, read read
[01:25:20] the Old Testament." Because most Jews
[01:25:23] have never read the Old Testament. You
[01:25:24] think they No, they're like Christians.
[01:25:25] They've never read their own word.
[01:25:27] >> Yeah.
[01:25:27] >> And so she read the entire Old Testament
[01:25:30] from beginning to end.
[01:25:31] >> That's amazing.
[01:25:32] >> And I I said, "So what'd you think of
[01:25:34] that?"
[01:25:36] And she said, she said, uh, um, he
[01:25:39] warned us over and over again. He warned
[01:25:43] us and he told us this would happen to
[01:25:45] us. It's just like he told us
[01:25:49] over and over again. And she said, "We
[01:25:52] deserved it. We deserved it." Now, my
[01:25:54] Jewish friends, they they can't take
[01:25:56] this. I'm just telling you what she
[01:25:58] said. I didn't say it. I'm just I'm just
[01:26:00] the messenger of what she said. Now,
[01:26:01] she's gone now, so you can't come
[01:26:03] against her. But that's what she said.
[01:26:04] She said, she said, "We deserved it."
[01:26:07] She said, "He told us, warned us over."
[01:26:09] >> Well, the prophets are very tough on
[01:26:11] their own people. I mean, they are
[01:26:13] >> very tough.
[01:26:14] >> Very tough. Like way tougher than
[01:26:16] >> And that's why they were killed.
[01:26:18] >> Exactly.
[01:26:18] >> That's why they were killed. Yeah. and
[01:26:20] and and and and Jesus said, you know,
[01:26:23] when the in Lukeap 11, it said the
[01:26:27] lawyers came to Jesus and he says, "When
[01:26:29] you speak this way about the Pharisees,
[01:26:31] you you offend us to you offend us." I
[01:26:36] mean,
[01:26:38] it it was uh um you know, offense is a
[01:26:40] big thing. You offend us. And Jesus
[01:26:42] didn't say, "Gee,
[01:26:44] I'm I'm sorry about that." You know, I
[01:26:46] really the worst thing I could have done
[01:26:48] was offend. No, he says you lawyers, you
[01:26:51] lawyers, you are responsible for the
[01:26:54] deaths of all the prophets from Abel
[01:26:59] from from Abel to to uh uh Zechariah.
[01:27:03] This this is this is like uh um this is
[01:27:07] like us saying from Genesis to
[01:27:09] Revelation. This is this is uh because
[01:27:12] the way they order their books, this is
[01:27:14] this is the encompassing way. And he
[01:27:17] says, "You're responsible for all of
[01:27:18] their deaths." All of them. Uh um um and
[01:27:22] and um so that's the way Jesus handled
[01:27:25] this. Yeah. And then he says, "Which one
[01:27:27] of them didn't you kill?" [laughter]
[01:27:30] >> Yeah. And and so
[01:27:31] >> he wasn't sucking up.
[01:27:32] >> Yeah. He wasn't sucking up. So So that
[01:27:34] was her response. But then she told me,
[01:27:36] she said, "You know, you're going to
[01:27:37] have a lot of trouble with your
[01:27:38] children. You know, you you you teach
[01:27:41] them all these things and it's so
[01:27:43] religious and everything. you're you're
[01:27:45] going to have a lot of trouble.
[01:27:47] And my kids grew up and my daughter, my
[01:27:49] oldest daughter was 15 and she came to
[01:27:51] visit with my dad and and uh she went up
[01:27:54] to my daughter's room and talked to her
[01:27:56] for 2 hours. You know, my my mother used
[01:27:58] to do a lot of volunteer work at the
[01:28:00] mental health association. She was very
[01:28:02] good at talking to people, particularly
[01:28:04] young people. Young people used to love
[01:28:06] to talk to my mom. She came out after
[01:28:09] two hours. She said, "That's some
[01:28:10] daughter you've got." and she started
[01:28:12] reading the Bible again. And she started
[01:28:15] reading the Bible and she was reading
[01:28:17] the Bible, the case for Christ and a
[01:28:20] devotional from the Interarsity, which I
[01:28:22] don't know where she got those. And um
[01:28:25] she called me one morning, we used to
[01:28:26] speak every Sunday. She called me and
[01:28:29] she said,
[01:28:31] "Uh, Jimmy, you wouldn't believe what
[01:28:33] happened." I said, "What happened?" She
[01:28:35] says, "I believe Jesus is the son of
[01:28:36] God."
[01:28:38] I said, "What?" She said, "He's the son
[01:28:40] of God." I was reading about the
[01:28:42] crucifixion. She said, "This has to be
[01:28:44] God. Only God could go through some
[01:28:46] something like this, not just a normal
[01:28:47] person. Jesus had to have been the son
[01:28:49] of God."
[01:28:52] And uh uh you know, she was um she was
[01:28:54] really moved. And then the next week she
[01:28:56] calls me. She said, "Jimmy, you can find
[01:28:59] any damn thing in the Bible." I said,
[01:29:01] "What is it you found?" She said, "It
[01:29:03] says, "Husbands love the wife of your
[01:29:05] youth."
[01:29:06] >> Yeah. It's the best.
[01:29:07] >> That's the best. And I said, "Well, tell
[01:29:09] that to dad." She had it on
[01:29:10] speakerphone. That's how my parents
[01:29:12] would only speak on speaker phone, you
[01:29:13] know. And um
[01:29:16] and you know, this is a Jewish New York
[01:29:18] father and and uh I said, "Well, tell
[01:29:21] that to dad, you know, you can." And I
[01:29:23] hear him in the background saying, "I
[01:29:24] know all that already. I know [laughter]
[01:29:25] all that."
[01:29:27] So, she came to the Lord. And my dad
[01:29:29] used to take her to church. She got
[01:29:30] baptized. She went to church.
[01:29:31] >> Your dad took her to church?
[01:29:33] >> Yes. He used to take her to church. He
[01:29:34] loved his wife. He loved his wife.
[01:29:36] >> Very open-minded parents.
[01:29:38] >> Very open-minded. They were good
[01:29:39] parents. Very good parents.
[01:29:41] >> And uh uh they took her to church.
[01:29:43] Sometimes he'd sit with her in church.
[01:29:44] Sometimes he'd drop her off and then
[01:29:46] he'd come to pick her up. And and she
[01:29:48] got baptized in in the Atlantic Ocean.
[01:29:50] Uh and um and then what did her friends
[01:29:53] think? Uh she told everybody. She didn't
[01:29:57] hide this thing. She was quite open. I
[01:29:59] mean, like I told everybody. I mean,
[01:30:01] what are they going to think? I remember
[01:30:02] I told my cousin, he says, "You can't do
[01:30:05] that. You're Jewish. [laughter] You're
[01:30:07] Jewish.
[01:30:10] I never thought about that. Am I allowed
[01:30:11] to do this? [laughter]
[01:30:15] >> And uh
[01:30:16] >> that's too funny.
[01:30:17] >> But 45 years I prayed for my dad. I told
[01:30:20] him the gospel so many times. I read to
[01:30:22] him the entire gospel of John over a
[01:30:25] period of about 5 days and he only fell
[01:30:28] asleep like twice while I was reading it
[01:30:31] to him. He was good guy. He just
[01:30:33] listened to me. He'd fall asleep
[01:30:34] sometimes and wake up and I'd begin
[01:30:37] again. And and uh but on his deathbed, I
[01:30:40] said, "Dad, can I can I you know, you
[01:30:42] knew he was dying. His mind was all
[01:30:44] there. His body was just failing him at
[01:30:46] the age of 94."
[01:30:48] And I said, "Can I tell you again tell
[01:30:50] you again why why this means so much to
[01:30:52] me, my faith?" He says, he says, "I I
[01:30:56] really don't want to hear it. I don't
[01:30:57] want to hear it." He was being nice. He
[01:30:59] says, "I just don't."
[01:31:01] That night, a Jamaican night nurse came
[01:31:04] in to take we we we hired a nurse just
[01:31:06] to sit with him all night long. Um and
[01:31:11] and uh she started sharing with him.
[01:31:15] She said, "You know, there's the picture
[01:31:17] of your wife. You want to be with her?
[01:31:20] You can be with her. You can receive
[01:31:22] Jesus right now." She said, "You want
[01:31:24] it?" She said, "He nodded." He said,
[01:31:25] "Yes." So, she called in another nurse.
[01:31:27] They all held hands and [clears throat]
[01:31:29] they prayed with him and he she said he
[01:31:32] extended both hands to the heavens and
[01:31:35] it just the whole room changed and he
[01:31:38] came to the Lord right there and the
[01:31:40] whole attitude about his life changed
[01:31:42] and and uh my sister saw this and she
[01:31:45] was amazed. She was amazed and and uh he
[01:31:48] died 4 days later. He died in the Lord
[01:31:50] for 45 years. I prayed for that man. He
[01:31:53] came to know the Lord. That's
[01:31:54] incredible.
[01:31:56] Nobody can tell me this doesn't work. I
[01:31:59] mean, the the gospel message is not a
[01:32:01] sham. I see this over and over again. I
[01:32:04] told you every week I see somebody come
[01:32:07] to the Lord and I get inv in in involved
[01:32:10] in daily reading of the scriptures
[01:32:11] starting in the gospel according to
[01:32:13] John. Slowly, pensively, I teach them
[01:32:15] how to read slowly reach each verse
[01:32:17] twice. Then break it up. Think about
[01:32:19] that. In the beginning was the word and
[01:32:21] the word was with God and the word was
[01:32:22] God. Stop. Read it again. In the
[01:32:24] beginning was the word and the word was
[01:32:26] with God and the word was God. Now break
[01:32:28] it up in parts. In the beginning in the
[01:32:30] beginning just ponder that in that means
[01:32:32] before there was time before there was
[01:32:33] anything. In the beginning was the word.
[01:32:35] Word is information.
[01:32:37] Everything starts with information. You
[01:32:40] cannot build a cell without the
[01:32:42] informationational code. Everything has
[01:32:44] to have information. There was
[01:32:45] informationational code DNA that from
[01:32:48] the acorn that started this tree that
[01:32:50] made this table. Information. You have
[01:32:52] to have information pre pre is a
[01:32:55] prerequisite to everything. In the
[01:32:57] beginning was the word and [snorts] the
[01:32:59] word was with God and the word was God.
[01:33:03] That word was God. The next verse says
[01:33:06] he was in the beginning with God. Puts
[01:33:08] pronoun. He was in the beginning. He the
[01:33:10] word is a he. This is an individual. You
[01:33:13] get to verse 14 it blows your mind. The
[01:33:16] word that word that was with God and was
[01:33:19] what? The word became flesh and dwelt
[01:33:22] among us and we saw his glory. Glory as
[01:33:25] of the only begotten from the father
[01:33:27] full of grace and truth. We saw him. We
[01:33:30] saw him. He became flesh. That word that
[01:33:33] information that was God took on human
[01:33:36] flesh. I mean you see this and what
[01:33:40] happens is the Bible says that that that
[01:33:42] uh uh God no man can approach God and
[01:33:45] live. No man. And which makes sense. You
[01:33:48] look out and you you see this whole
[01:33:49] universe. Look out through the James
[01:33:50] Webb telescope. You see colors
[01:33:54] everywhere. Each one of those is a
[01:33:57] galaxy that God created the entire
[01:34:00] molecular level for us to have life. And
[01:34:03] then the atomic level from which the
[01:34:06] molecules are made from and then the
[01:34:07] subatomic for each one of those atom
[01:34:10] everything that whole dimensional
[01:34:11] difference. He created the whole thing.
[01:34:14] It's no wonder why we cannot approach
[01:34:16] him. He dwells in in in in a light that
[01:34:20] we could never be near. But he says, "I
[01:34:24] want to be with them." The Bible tells
[01:34:26] us in in Hebrews chapter 2, he took on
[01:34:29] flesh and blood because his children are
[01:34:32] of flesh and blood. That's an amazing
[01:34:35] thing. He took on flesh and blood
[01:34:37] because we are of flesh and blood. You
[01:34:39] know, we have cancer patients stay in
[01:34:40] our home sometimes because we live right
[01:34:42] near a big cancer center and and uh uh
[01:34:46] [clears throat] you can't it's too
[01:34:47] expensive to stay in a hotel for 3
[01:34:49] months, 6 months treatment. And so
[01:34:52] sometimes a child is getting treatment
[01:34:54] and they will lose their hair just like
[01:34:55] an adult loses their hair. And so the
[01:34:58] mother or the father will shave their
[01:35:00] head in solidarity with that child. And
[01:35:02] the child is different. They're like,
[01:35:04] "None of us ever. We're we're all
[01:35:05] together. We're all together." This is
[01:35:08] what Jesus does. He took on flesh and
[01:35:09] blood because we have flesh and blood in
[01:35:12] solidarity with us. And he says, "If
[01:35:14] they come as an adult, they'll feel me.
[01:35:16] I'll be born among them." When one is
[01:35:18] born among us, we're not intimidated by
[01:35:20] them.
[01:35:21] >> We're not afraid of them.
[01:35:23] >> They're born among us. And he's born
[01:35:25] among and he teaches us how to have
[01:35:27] relationship with God. He says, "This is
[01:35:29] how you do it. You don't have to be a
[01:35:30] monk and go up on a mountain. You just
[01:35:32] live among your own people.
[01:35:34] just wake up early in the morning, go
[01:35:35] off and enjoy God. Just enjoy God. And
[01:35:38] and how he loved the scriptures, how he
[01:35:41] quoted the scriptures over and over
[01:35:43] again. He demonstrated it for us. This
[01:35:46] is not a sham. I see lives change all
[01:35:48] the time. I see people come to the Lord.
[01:35:49] When I get them in this, their marriages
[01:35:52] change, their their children change. I
[01:35:54] see them writing to me after a year, two
[01:35:56] years. I'm back together with my wife.
[01:35:58] My kids are turned around. I a guy just
[01:36:00] wrote to me this week. I'm getting
[01:36:02] baptized with my son. and you led me to
[01:36:03] the Lord one year ago. He says, "Now my
[01:36:06] 13-year-old, who was sitting in the same
[01:36:07] room when you talked to me over the Zoom
[01:36:09] conversation, he's getting baptized with
[01:36:11] me." It changes lives over and over
[01:36:14] again. The gospel is not a sham. This is
[01:36:17] real. This is real. It is true. Every
[01:36:20] word in the scriptures is true. And and
[01:36:23] I am a public testimony of this over and
[01:36:26] over again. I see this thing being borne
[01:36:28] out.
[01:36:30] Do you feel like something is happening
[01:36:32] in this country or world where this is
[01:36:34] accelerating?
[01:36:36] There's more awareness of this of God.
[01:36:39] >> More awareness of God. Yeah.
[01:36:40] >> Yeah. I think there's more awareness of
[01:36:42] God. I see something accelerating toward
[01:36:44] God. People are becoming more aware of
[01:36:46] this.
[01:36:46] >> Yes.
[01:36:47] >> Yeah. I I do see that. People say, you
[01:36:49] know, what's it like working with
[01:36:51] students today? You look I I've been I
[01:36:53] went to the campus when I was 18, right
[01:36:55] after my 18th birthday, and I've never
[01:36:57] left. I've never [laughter] left. I've
[01:36:59] been on college campuses since I was 18.
[01:37:01] So for for almost 50 years, this is
[01:37:04] where where where I am. And I've seen
[01:37:06] students all of this time and uh uh uh I
[01:37:09] see the gospel works the same on
[01:37:11] students today as it ever did. And I see
[01:37:14] people I I I mean there's a lot of mess
[01:37:16] in the world, but there's always been a
[01:37:18] lot of mess in the world. Ask the
[01:37:20] Koreans what ask
[01:37:23] >> ask what it was like 50 years uh 70
[01:37:26] years ago in Korea, right? I mean I mean
[01:37:28] things were a real mess. I mean and the
[01:37:30] world has been a mess over and over
[01:37:31] again. But yeah, I mean there there's a
[01:37:33] lot of discussion about God. And I think
[01:37:35] even science is pointing us more and
[01:37:38] more to God. I mean look look at this.
[01:37:40] Look at the creatures that we are. How
[01:37:42] do you build one of these? How do you do
[01:37:44] this? How do you pull this thing off?
[01:37:47] And now we know so much more. This is
[01:37:49] not this is not it used to be a cell was
[01:37:51] a bunch of protoplasm. Now it's like
[01:37:53] this. It's this factory. is this factory
[01:37:56] with all these levels of systems level
[01:37:58] engineering in every cell. How do you do
[01:38:01] this? This is amazing.
[01:38:04] >> So the more you know,
[01:38:06] the less you know and the more it points
[01:38:08] you toward a creator.
[01:38:09] >> Yeah, I think that's certainly true. The
[01:38:11] more you know, the less the more you
[01:38:13] realize you don't know,
[01:38:14] >> right?
[01:38:14] >> And for me, it points me toward a
[01:38:16] creator over and over again. I'm I'm
[01:38:19] looking at this. I mean, this is all I
[01:38:21] do. I sit in my office and I just go
[01:38:23] through chemistry. I mean over and over
[01:38:25] again I'm just doing chemistry reading
[01:38:27] papers and writing propos I mean you
[01:38:29] stare at this you say god how do you do
[01:38:31] this I remember my my my son who you
[01:38:34] whom you've met he was he was three
[01:38:36] years old he came running toward me we
[01:38:38] were building a a molecular brain we
[01:38:41] were building this this this this
[01:38:42] synthetic brain where we were taking
[01:38:44] molecules in a disoriented array and
[01:38:46] you'd get voltage pulses from the
[01:38:47] outside you you you you couldn't map the
[01:38:49] thing but we just give voltage pulses
[01:38:51] from the outside to program it to do the
[01:38:53] function that we wanted it to do and we
[01:38:56] could just get little tiny things an
[01:38:57] andgate an orgate little simple things
[01:39:00] and then one day I'm sitting at at the
[01:39:02] kitchen table thinking about how we're
[01:39:03] going to build this and he comes running
[01:39:05] toward me
[01:39:07] and I said Lord how do you do this how
[01:39:09] do you build one of these how do you do
[01:39:11] this there's all this motion all this
[01:39:12] action and all this comprehension and
[01:39:14] all this awareness and all this
[01:39:16] consciousness
[01:39:16] >> and I'm trying to build a little orgate
[01:39:20] and and uh and and I can't do it and and
[01:39:22] it's all this how do you do do this. We
[01:39:24] don't know the internet connect pattern
[01:39:26] of the molecules in our brain or of the
[01:39:28] neurons in our brain, but we use it all
[01:39:30] the time. I mean, with a computer chip,
[01:39:33] you know where every device is.
[01:39:35] Everything is perfectly placed. You
[01:39:37] better know where everything is. And
[01:39:39] here, we use our brains. We We don't
[01:39:41] have a map of it. And we use it all the
[01:39:43] time. It's extraordinary. And And I look
[01:39:46] at I look at life and I'm like, "This
[01:39:48] this is amazing. Amazing." and and and
[01:39:51] and then I I used to just purposely sit
[01:39:54] outside and just wait for mosquitoes to
[01:39:56] come because they they're flying tiny
[01:39:58] little tiny little brain and there's all
[01:40:01] this coordinated flight and I'm emitting
[01:40:03] something that's calling them.
[01:40:04] >> Yes.
[01:40:05] >> And now as soon as they sting, they fly
[01:40:08] away and then more he's called his
[01:40:11] friends. You know, here's a hunk of meat
[01:40:13] and they're coming right back to the
[01:40:14] same place. They're coming right back.
[01:40:16] They know where to come. And so he's
[01:40:17] signaling them. So there's all this
[01:40:19] sensors from very small amounts of these
[01:40:23] these pherommones. Very small amount of
[01:40:25] these small organic molecules have been
[01:40:27] emitted and they have these amazing
[01:40:29] sensors that that then they converge on
[01:40:31] you. How how do you do that? How do you
[01:40:35] pull this thing off? I mean you need
[01:40:37] code. You need genetic code. You need
[01:40:40] information for every one of these
[01:40:42] things. You can't tell me there is no
[01:40:44] God. You can't tell me. I mean, who who
[01:40:47] should understand this better than me?
[01:40:50] Really? I mean, I'm not trying to speak
[01:40:52] this proudly. It's just that I
[01:40:53] understand the molecular level as good
[01:40:55] as anyone else in the world.
[01:40:58] >> As good as anyone else in the world. So,
[01:41:00] if anybody should be able to understand
[01:41:02] it, I should understand it. This is
[01:41:04] amazing. Just amazing. This world, this
[01:41:07] creation. And so, so I see God and I
[01:41:09] say, "God, you are amazing. This is
[01:41:11] extraordinary. I mean, how you pull this
[01:41:13] thing off." and he allows us as
[01:41:15] scientists to explore in this little
[01:41:18] nano domain of his creation and and and
[01:41:20] and just get excited about it. I can't
[01:41:24] believe you teach at university. It's
[01:41:25] amazing. It's wonderful. It's such a
[01:41:27] great sign.
[01:41:28] >> Oh, I love teaching. I love I I love
[01:41:31] teaching even introductory organic
[01:41:32] chemistry. I like to take them just
[01:41:35] right from the beginning. It's like it's
[01:41:38] like I take somebody to the Grand Canyon
[01:41:40] and I've seen it many times, but they're
[01:41:42] seeing it for the first time. I just
[01:41:44] want to look at them and see like, wow,
[01:41:48] that that's what it's like teaching
[01:41:49] organic chemistry for the first time.
[01:41:51] Let me show you what these organic
[01:41:52] molecules can do. Let me show you how
[01:41:55] they do this. How you can you can look
[01:41:57] at a structure and predict what's going
[01:41:58] to happen when you take two molecules
[01:42:00] and put them together and why they do
[01:42:02] what they do and why the reaction takes
[01:42:04] place and why it's fast or slow. Is it
[01:42:06] explosive or do you have to heat it up?
[01:42:09] you know, they learn all this and why
[01:42:11] why does deodorant work the way it does?
[01:42:13] Why do these chemicals do do what they
[01:42:15] do? I mean, how is it, you know, why why
[01:42:18] does wood have the structure that it
[01:42:19] has? Why why do fabrics why why do why
[01:42:22] do you walk across a a carpet and the
[01:42:23] fibers spring right back? What made them
[01:42:26] spring back? Why don't they stay down
[01:42:27] when you stepped on them? I love to be
[01:42:29] able to explain this and and just open
[01:42:32] up the world to them and show them this.
[01:42:34] This to me is really exciting.
[01:42:38] Professor Jim Tour. Thank you very much.
[01:42:41] Thank you. [music]
[01:42:46] >> Well, it wasn't that long ago that many
[01:42:47] Americans thought they were inherently
[01:42:49] safe from the kinds of disasters you
[01:42:50] hear about all the time in third world
[01:42:52] countries. A total power loss, for
[01:42:54] example, or people freezing to death in
[01:42:56] their own homes. That could never happen
[01:42:57] here. Obviously, it's America.
[01:43:01] People are recalculating, unfortunately,
[01:43:03] cuz they have no choice. The last few
[01:43:05] years have taught us that. Remember when
[01:43:06] the power grid in Texas failed in the
[01:43:08] dead of winter? Like, yeah, it happened
[01:43:11] and it could happen again. So, the
[01:43:13] government is not actually as reliable
[01:43:15] as you'd hope they would be. And the
[01:43:18] truth is, the future is unforeseeable.
[01:43:19] And things do seem to be getting a
[01:43:21] little squirly. So, if the grid does go
[01:43:23] down, you need power [music] you can
[01:43:25] trust. Last Country Supply newest
[01:43:27] product is designed for exactly that.
[01:43:29] The Grid Doctor is a 3,300 watt battery
[01:43:33] backup system that will power full-size
[01:43:35] appliances, medical devices, and tools
[01:43:38] with clean, reliable power. It's even
[01:43:41] protected. That means it's shielded from
[01:43:43] lightning, solar flares, or an actual
[01:43:46] electromagnetic pulse event. There's no
[01:43:48] gasoline, no noise, no emissions. You
[01:43:50] just plug it in, charge it from the wall
[01:43:52] from your vehicle or from the included
[01:43:54] 200 W solar panel and keep going day
[01:43:56] after day taking care of yourself and
[01:43:58] the people you love is solely up to you.
[01:44:01] And the amazing thing is with these new
[01:44:03] batteries, we use one at home, by the
[01:44:05] way, is they're super easy to use.
[01:44:08] There's no inverter you need to figure
[01:44:10] out on the front of it or anything like
[01:44:12] that. There's like three buttons. It's
[01:44:14] very easy and totally reliable. Highly
[01:44:17] recommended. We literally use one, as I
[01:44:18] said. Visit lastcountriesupply.com
[01:44:22] to shop the grid doctor for power you
[01:44:25] can trust this winter. Last country
[01:44:28] supply.com
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