📄 Extracted Text (19,290 words)
[00:00:00] Anger in response to my emotion. All the
[00:00:03] trauma left unopened. Go with all away
[00:00:06] and fly inside. Get high. Good times.
[00:00:08] I'm reeling. From the raindrops on the
[00:00:10] ceiling from your heart. This is
[00:00:12] revealing. You want to get away. You're
[00:00:15] bored into my afraid of. Isn't that what
[00:00:18] life is made of? When you think about
[00:00:21] all you gave up. When you think about
[00:00:23] all the glamour and the money that they
[00:00:25] sold you. When the raindrops hit your
[00:00:27] ceiling. Will you see a human being?
[00:00:30] Will you open your eyes and the things
[00:00:33] this is revealing? I survive what they
[00:00:35] sent to destroy me. Resurrected like a
[00:00:37] biblical story. They thought that it was
[00:00:40] the old me, but it ain't the old me.
[00:00:42] It's the bold me. I survived what they
[00:00:44] sent to destroy me. Resurrected like a
[00:00:46] biblical story. They thought that it was
[00:00:48] the old.
[00:00:56] Hello everyone and welcome back to The
[00:00:58] Price is My Life. We have a breaking
[00:01:01] story here today. A huge story that
[00:01:03] we're going to cut to in just a second
[00:01:06] involving corruption on a massive scale
[00:01:09] that makes USAID
[00:01:12] that scandal look like the Cub Scouts.
[00:01:15] This is hundreds of billions of dollars
[00:01:18] of fraud. A scheme that took us six
[00:01:22] months to investigate and expose a
[00:01:26] hundred billion dollar federal
[00:01:28] contracting scam. 8A
[00:01:32] uh firms admit to violating federal laws
[00:01:36] using their minorityowned status. We're
[00:01:38] going to put that in quotes. As a front
[00:01:39] to obtain $100 million no bid government
[00:01:43] contracts. We went undercover. We set up
[00:01:47] fake websites. We set up uh HR scams.
[00:01:51] This is not an a dating app. This is not
[00:01:54] something that we went on a date to do.
[00:01:56] This is something that we went
[00:01:57] undercover to do. So, this show will be
[00:01:59] about an hour long. We're going to break
[00:02:01] the story today. We have a follow-up on
[00:02:03] Wednesday. We have multiple people
[00:02:06] caught on tape and then we confront
[00:02:09] them. Take off the disguise. This is
[00:02:12] perhaps the most ridiculous disguise
[00:02:13] you've ever seen. People wondering how
[00:02:15] on earth do they not recognize me? But
[00:02:18] if you're just tuning in, welcome back
[00:02:19] to the Price is My Life brought to you
[00:02:21] by our sponsors at American Independence
[00:02:23] Gold. Get started on your gold IRA today
[00:02:26] and purchase gold and silver bars and
[00:02:28] coinage at okkeefemedold.com.
[00:02:32] 00 billion federal contracting scam.
[00:02:37] Just to give you an idea, our deficit is
[00:02:40] $2 billion a year. If you solve this
[00:02:42] problem, you solve 5% of the US national
[00:02:46] deficit. So, here we go. ATI government
[00:02:49] solutions contracts manager Melain
[00:02:52] Cromwell admitting to exploiting 8A SBA
[00:02:55] program through quote unquote passrough
[00:02:57] schemes. Shell companies breaking the
[00:03:00] law. Go ahead. Let's play the tape.
[00:03:10] >> So at the do 20% and then a
[00:03:13] subcontractor like 80% work.
[00:03:14] >> 80%
[00:03:17] share that they do all the work.
[00:03:18] >> No. So we we do about 20% of the work.
[00:03:22] >> 20%. these government contractors like
[00:03:25] ATI taking advantage of their special
[00:03:28] minorityowned status
[00:03:29] >> and and I tell you passroughs are a
[00:03:31] great thing as well. So a lot of our
[00:03:33] subcontractors bid on contracts that
[00:03:36] were uh perfect in their industry but
[00:03:40] because they weren't Native American
[00:03:42] they wouldn't win it. So we bid on it
[00:03:44] for them. They became our son and it's
[00:03:47] an automatic way to create
[00:03:51] that excitement. A lot of people don't
[00:03:53] know that.
[00:03:54] >> I don't think anybody knows that.
[00:03:56] >> You want to keep it that way.
[00:03:57] >> That's right.
[00:03:57] >> That's a secret. You know what I mean?
[00:04:00] >> Exactly.
[00:04:01] >> Taking the money in, subcontracting much
[00:04:04] of the work out.
[00:04:05] >> I sit back, collect my percentage, and
[00:04:08] they do the work.
[00:04:09] >> Correct.
[00:04:10] >> Yeah. They're doing most of the work.
[00:04:12] could get the contracts, get the money,
[00:04:15] act as a pass through, and it's the
[00:04:17] taxpayer who gets screwed over.
[00:04:19] >> Was there some rules or something that
[00:04:21] people were telling me about like you
[00:04:22] have to report 51%
[00:04:24] >> 51%
[00:04:25] >> on paper? Correct.
[00:04:26] >> Right. But as long as on paper,
[00:04:28] >> as long as it's on paper.
[00:04:29] >> 51%. You're good to go. And remember,
[00:04:32] there's no competition cuz you're Native
[00:04:34] American.
[00:04:36] >> Ding ding.
[00:04:36] >> That's the That's the best kept kept
[00:04:38] secret.
[00:04:39] >> It is indeed.
[00:04:40] >> It is. It is. Go ahead.
[00:04:42] >> Here's to Here's to passroughs.
[00:04:44] >> There you go.
[00:04:45] >> How about that?
[00:04:46] >> Yeah, exactly.
[00:04:47] >> Exactly.
[00:04:50] >> In in Veritas.
[00:05:00] >> My name is James O'Keefe.
[00:05:11] Ain't no party like a Jim Keith party.
[00:05:14] >> What you're about to see is a microcosp
[00:05:16] of one of the biggest scams in American
[00:05:19] history. A scheme that could be costing
[00:05:21] taxpayers up to $100 billion every year.
[00:05:24] It's a system long described as an open
[00:05:26] secret in Washington. One that dwarfs
[00:05:29] the US aid fraud scandals in both scale
[00:05:32] and scope. At its center lies a
[00:05:34] government program created to empower
[00:05:36] minorityowned small businesses. But
[00:05:39] behind the facade, our investigation
[00:05:41] uncovers a network of so-called 8A pass
[00:05:44] through schemes, shell companies
[00:05:46] exploiting those very programs for
[00:05:48] profit. According to the SBA, the Biden
[00:05:51] Harris administration awarded more than
[00:05:53] $630 billion in federal contracts to
[00:05:56] these companies with over $183 billion
[00:06:00] in 2024 alone. Our undercover
[00:06:02] investigation reveals how these firms
[00:06:05] secure no bid federal contracts.
[00:06:07] >> No bidding
[00:06:08] >> because of your native status.
[00:06:10] >> Skim over half of the money off the top,
[00:06:13] 65% of the money,
[00:06:15] >> and subcontract nearly all the work.
[00:06:17] >> So we we do about 20% of the work,
[00:06:20] >> defrauding taxpayers like you and
[00:06:23] betraying the very communities these
[00:06:25] programs were meant to uplift. ATI
[00:06:28] government solutions is a technology
[00:06:30] services company that acquires contracts
[00:06:32] to provide federal departments with next
[00:06:34] generation computing solutions. ATI
[00:06:37] acquires hundreds of millions of
[00:06:39] taxpayer dollars for these contracts and
[00:06:41] have been particularly successful in
[00:06:43] this due to their supposed Native
[00:06:44] American 8A tribal status. Meaning
[00:06:48] they're a Native Americanowned small
[00:06:50] business which is heavily favored by
[00:06:52] federal contracts.
[00:06:54] Very
[00:06:56] fake.
[00:06:57] >> Try the other one.
[00:06:58] >> We went undercover and arranged meetings
[00:07:00] with multiple employees to dig deeper
[00:07:02] into the truth behind their ownership,
[00:07:05] their small business status, and their
[00:07:07] excessive use of subcontractors.
[00:07:11] >> Yeah.
[00:07:11] >> Oh my gosh, that's better. Yes.
[00:07:14] >> And what we found was more damning than
[00:07:17] we ever expected.
[00:07:23] I'm Jim. Nice to see you.
[00:07:24] >> Nice to meet you.
[00:07:26] >> Nice to meet you.
[00:07:29] >> We posed as a cyber security company
[00:07:31] which was attempting to procure
[00:07:32] government contracts through minority
[00:07:34] owned status similar to ATI. The ploy
[00:07:38] was to approach the employee for ATI not
[00:07:40] for a meeting about contracts, but about
[00:07:43] obtaining catering for a corporate
[00:07:45] event. You see, Meline Cromwell at ATI
[00:07:48] also on the side runs a catering
[00:07:51] business called Raen Cinjun Catering.
[00:07:54] >> So, I got into government contracting. I
[00:07:56] love what I did. Um, I help large and
[00:07:58] small companies win contracts with the
[00:08:00] government.
[00:08:01] >> I wanted to talk about gumbo.
[00:08:04] >> I want to get to the good stuff. I mean,
[00:08:05] this is interesting. It's a little bit
[00:08:08] boring for me.
[00:08:09] >> So, I'm excited to talk to you about the
[00:08:12] Cajun food.
[00:08:13] >> Absolutely. We were shocked that almost
[00:08:15] immediately in the meeting, less than 2
[00:08:17] minutes in, Melain Cromwell at ATI told
[00:08:20] us all about her position as the
[00:08:22] director of contracts for ATI. And what
[00:08:25] was your win that job? What was your
[00:08:27] title or your role there?
[00:08:28] >> I'm the director of contracts.
[00:08:30] >> You're the director.
[00:08:31] >> Uhhuh.
[00:08:31] >> The director.
[00:08:32] >> The director.
[00:08:33] >> So there's no one above you in the
[00:08:34] contracts.
[00:08:34] >> There's no one above me. Main Cromwell
[00:08:36] goes on to explain that because ATI is
[00:08:38] supposedly Native Americanowned, they
[00:08:41] are heavily favored by government
[00:08:43] contracts and often acquire $100 million
[00:08:46] contracts with no bidding war. This
[00:08:49] enables them to quote pass through the
[00:08:52] majority of the work to companies that
[00:08:54] wouldn't usually be eligible while
[00:08:56] keeping the majority of the compensation
[00:08:59] for themselves.
[00:09:00] >> And and I tell you, passroughs are a
[00:09:02] great thing as well.
[00:09:03] >> Tell me about those. Well, so will
[00:09:05] passroughs because you're Native
[00:09:07] American, right? If you have um there's
[00:09:10] a big bid out and there's a company that
[00:09:12] wants to bid on it that's not Native
[00:09:14] American, all they do is partner with
[00:09:16] you. They use their people. They you
[00:09:18] subcontract to them, right? They're your
[00:09:21] subs. So, a lot of our subcontractors
[00:09:24] bid on contracts that were uh perfect in
[00:09:27] their industry, but because they weren't
[00:09:30] Native American, they wouldn't win it.
[00:09:32] So, we bid on it for them. They became
[00:09:34] our sub and it's an automatic win
[00:09:38] because of the government set aside. You
[00:09:40] automatically will win that contract
[00:09:42] because of your Native American status.
[00:09:44] But there's no bidding. There's no
[00:09:45] bidding war.
[00:09:46] >> No bidding anymore because of your
[00:09:48] native status.
[00:09:49] >> You get it?
[00:09:50] >> You get it?
[00:09:51] >> A pass through scheme is when an 8A
[00:09:54] small business acts as a front to win
[00:09:56] government contracts meant for
[00:09:58] disadvantaged firms. Instead of actually
[00:10:00] doing the work, it passes the contract
[00:10:02] to a larger ineligible company,
[00:10:05] violating SBA rules and defrauding the
[00:10:08] government and defrauding you, the
[00:10:10] taxpayers.
[00:10:11] >> Isn't that exciting? Right. A lot of
[00:10:13] people don't know that.
[00:10:14] >> I don't think anybody knows that.
[00:10:16] >> And we want to keep it that way.
[00:10:17] >> That's right. That's a secret.
[00:10:20] >> You know what I mean?
[00:10:21] >> Exactly.
[00:10:21] >> Subcontracting out some of the
[00:10:23] development work isn't necessarily a
[00:10:25] crime. It was actually quite common.
[00:10:27] However, things appear to take a
[00:10:29] criminal turn when Melain Cromwell
[00:10:31] confesses to us that ATI, the prime
[00:10:35] contractor here, will often do as little
[00:10:37] as 20% of the actual software
[00:10:40] development work and offload 80% of the
[00:10:44] work to their subcontractors.
[00:10:46] >> I sit back, collect my percentage, and
[00:10:49] they do the work.
[00:10:50] >> Correct.
[00:10:51] >> Yeah. They do most of the work.
[00:10:52] >> The people you're subbing to do the
[00:10:54] majority of the work. So we we do about
[00:10:56] 20% of the work.
[00:10:58] >> So at do 20% and the subcontractor you
[00:11:01] do like 80% of the work.
[00:11:02] >> 80% of the work.
[00:11:04] >> You want to share that they do all the
[00:11:06] work.
[00:11:06] >> No
[00:11:08] want to share.
[00:11:09] >> So we're here outside ATI government
[00:11:11] solutions. This is the building in
[00:11:14] Frederick, Maryland where I'm standing
[00:11:16] that ATI government solutions is housed
[00:11:18] out of. Now, according to the federal
[00:11:20] acquisition regulations, specifically
[00:11:22] the limitations of subcontracting clause
[00:11:25] F52.21914,
[00:11:28] the prime contractor in a government
[00:11:31] contract must do at least 51% of the
[00:11:34] work. This is more broadly referred to
[00:11:36] as the 51% rule. And this is what ATI
[00:11:40] government solutions appears to be
[00:11:42] violating. ATI has a special
[00:11:44] classification from the SBA that gives
[00:11:47] the company access to government
[00:11:48] contracts without competitive bidding.
[00:11:51] It's called an AA, a small business that
[00:11:55] is at least 51% owned by quote US
[00:11:58] citizens that are socially and
[00:12:00] economically disadvantaged. On paper,
[00:12:03] ATI is owned by the Susanville Indian
[00:12:06] Rancheria, a federally recognized Native
[00:12:08] American tribal entity in Northern
[00:12:10] California. So, does the Susanville
[00:12:12] Indian Rancheria actually own ATI? And
[00:12:16] what role, if any, do they actually hold
[00:12:18] besides appearing as 51% owners on
[00:12:22] paper?
[00:12:22] >> This is the web page for SFSI.
[00:12:26] ATI.
[00:12:27] >> Oh, ATI. I think I've heard of that.
[00:12:29] >> Yeah, that's our technology department.
[00:12:31] Well, in order to answer that question,
[00:12:33] we went undercover to meet with the head
[00:12:35] of the Susanville Indian Rancheria,
[00:12:38] Arian Hart, and discussed exactly how
[00:12:40] the business arrangement would work if
[00:12:42] we wanted them to appear to be the
[00:12:44] owners of our imaginary company to help
[00:12:47] us gain government contracts, much like
[00:12:50] ATI does.
[00:12:51] >> We just want to get government
[00:12:52] contracts. So, we need the Native
[00:12:55] Americans ownership to be able to obtain
[00:12:59] that. It makes it easier to get into the
[00:13:01] ADA
[00:13:03] contracting for sure. Yes.
[00:13:06] >> Aryan confirms that if they were to
[00:13:07] appear as the owners of our company, it
[00:13:10] would make it easier to obtain
[00:13:11] government contracts. Aryan goes on to
[00:13:13] claim that we may need to relinquish 51%
[00:13:16] of the ownership to them.
[00:13:18] >> So really, it's really just coming up
[00:13:21] with a number that you would want in
[00:13:24] order to appear to be the owner of my
[00:13:26] art company,
[00:13:28] >> right? And there
[00:13:30] and some of that will be determined by
[00:13:33] the AAA corporation. So we may have to
[00:13:35] be like 51%
[00:13:38] owners, right?
[00:13:39] >> Meain Cromwell confirms that ATI is
[00:13:42] abiding by this 51% tribal ownership on
[00:13:46] paper.
[00:13:47] >> Was there some rules or something that
[00:13:48] you were telling me about like you have
[00:13:50] to report 51%
[00:13:52] >> 51%
[00:13:52] >> 51 on paper? Correct.
[00:13:54] >> Right. But in reality,
[00:13:56] >> Right. Exactly. Exactly.
[00:13:58] >> Yep.
[00:13:59] >> As long as it's on paper.
[00:14:00] >> As long as it's on paper.
[00:14:01] >> 51%. We're good to go.
[00:14:03] >> ATI may be 51% tribally owned on paper,
[00:14:07] but Main revealed to us that ATI was
[00:14:09] founded in collaboration with the
[00:14:11] rancheria by two Caucasian DC
[00:14:14] executives, Burmage Crutchfield and
[00:14:17] Scott Deutschman, and that they manage
[00:14:20] all of ATI's operations. According to a
[00:14:23] 2024 article featured on Washington
[00:14:26] Technology, Fermage openly states,
[00:14:28] quote, "We met with Susanville Indian
[00:14:31] Rancheria and formed ATI under their 8A
[00:14:34] umbrella and we've never looked back."
[00:14:37] Fermage also states, quote, "We have
[00:14:39] been around tribal organizations most of
[00:14:42] our careers and they are very strong
[00:14:44] government contractors." So, you report
[00:14:46] to the CEO?
[00:14:46] >> I do.
[00:14:47] >> What is his name?
[00:14:48] >> Fermage Crutchfield. He's the
[00:14:50] >> He's the CEO
[00:14:51] >> of
[00:14:52] >> of ATI.
[00:14:52] >> Have you met him?
[00:14:53] >> I have. Yeah, he's my boss.
[00:14:54] >> Now, is he is he a Native American
[00:14:56] gentleman or
[00:14:57] >> he's not? No. Not He was born and raised
[00:14:59] in Washington DC. Very much so.
[00:15:02] >> What's the name again?
[00:15:05] >> Be fiancé.
[00:15:07] >> She looks super young.
[00:15:08] >> Oh my gosh. So, look, she's the
[00:15:11] >> She was an Olympic swimmer division one
[00:15:14] basketball, right? I said I never did
[00:15:16] anything in the Olympic.
[00:15:17] >> No way. So she said she's the fiance of
[00:15:21] her.
[00:15:22] >> Isn't that something? But of course, of
[00:15:24] course, during my interview, I'm talking
[00:15:26] to both of you.
[00:15:28] >> Neither is mentioning that to me, of
[00:15:30] course.
[00:15:33] >> My first day at work. And she says,
[00:15:35] "Mena, you don't know this, but
[00:15:38] I are engaged." And I was like, "Oh,
[00:15:41] congratulations." Right.
[00:15:43] >> But how is that, right? CFO and CEO.
[00:15:47] >> That's that's nice work if you can get
[00:15:49] it.
[00:15:50] >> Nice work.
[00:15:51] >> This is juicy gossip. I love it.
[00:15:54] >> This is not gossip.
[00:15:56] >> With Fermage Crutchfield as CEO, his
[00:15:58] fiance Olympic swimmer Marina Molva as
[00:16:02] CFO and his business partner Scott
[00:16:04] Deutschman as COO, it becomes clear that
[00:16:07] the Susanville Indian Rancheria has
[00:16:09] almost no involvement in the actual
[00:16:12] operations of ATI. Aryan Hart then
[00:16:15] confirms to us that in the case of ATI
[00:16:17] they are sole proprietors and that
[00:16:19] anyone working for ATI works for the
[00:16:21] tribe acknowledging that quote we are
[00:16:24] the owner they do the workfield
[00:16:28] he's our uh CEO for that company
[00:16:31] >> and so what what is your role with them
[00:16:35] >> uh the tribe itself
[00:16:36] >> so we are the owner of that company
[00:16:38] right we're the owner of all those ADA
[00:16:42] companies we are the sole propritor
[00:16:43] driver I guess right so the company does
[00:16:47] you know they go out get their contracts
[00:16:49] do their business develop that company
[00:16:51] go out and get jobs and work for the
[00:16:53] tribe
[00:16:54] >> but you don't do any of the work
[00:16:57] >> they do it
[00:16:57] >> they do the work yes
[00:16:59] >> the undercover journalist then proposes
[00:17:01] that we would like to make a similar
[00:17:03] arrangement with the tribe and Aryan
[00:17:05] reaffirms the tribe itself will not be
[00:17:07] doing any of the work they would
[00:17:09] literally be taking 51% of the company
[00:17:12] for the sole purpose
[00:17:14] of allowing us to pose as Native
[00:17:16] Americanowned because it puts you to the
[00:17:18] front of the line for acquiring those
[00:17:20] government contracts.
[00:17:22] >> We would do the work and then you get a
[00:17:25] percentage of the profits,
[00:17:27] >> right?
[00:17:29] >> Yeah.
[00:17:30] >> We have the ability to get the contracts
[00:17:32] and that's probably the most important
[00:17:34] thing. On the surface, this sounds like
[00:17:36] a well-meaning endeavor by the federal
[00:17:38] government to bolster minority
[00:17:40] involvement in profitable industries
[00:17:42] like construction and software
[00:17:43] development. However, as you see here,
[00:17:45] it incentivizes a system which companies
[00:17:47] have to seek out a Native American tribe
[00:17:49] deposes 51% owners in order to obtain a
[00:17:52] sufficient amount of government
[00:17:54] contracts, surrendering 51% of the
[00:17:57] profits to a Native American tribe that
[00:17:59] does 0% of the work, effectively
[00:18:02] doubling the cost of the contract for
[00:18:04] the American taxpayer and having the
[00:18:06] financial compensation for the person
[00:18:08] doing the actual labor. Just this past
[00:18:10] May, in the case of Cusissus versus US,
[00:18:13] Stamatios Cusis, an alpha painting and
[00:18:16] construction company, secured
[00:18:18] Pennsylvania Department of
[00:18:19] Transportation contracts despite a
[00:18:21] satisfactory contract performance. They
[00:18:24] had deceived the government and their
[00:18:25] compliance with the disadvantaged
[00:18:27] business enterprise and were therefore
[00:18:28] convicted of wire fraud and conspiracy
[00:18:31] for fraudulent inducement. The Supreme
[00:18:33] Court in an opinion by Justice Amy Coney
[00:18:36] Barrett clarified that the wire fraud
[00:18:38] statute focuses on a scheme to obtain
[00:18:40] money or property through deception.
[00:18:43] Justice Sotomayor's concurrence likened
[00:18:45] it to a fan deceived into buying Mets
[00:18:48] tickets when promised Yankees tickets,
[00:18:50] emphasizing deception over loss. As
[00:18:53] unsettling as all this sounds, there's
[00:18:55] actually another layer. According to
[00:18:57] usaspending.gov, gov. ATI has
[00:19:00] exponentially grown their profits over
[00:19:02] the last 6 years from about $2 million
[00:19:04] in 2019 to a h 100red million this year.
[00:19:08] According to the SBA or Small Business
[00:19:10] Administration regulations, if an 8A
[00:19:12] company exceeds a personal net worth of
[00:19:14] 850,000, an adjusted gross income of
[00:19:17] 400,000 or assets totaling 6.5 million,
[00:19:20] then the SBA no longer considers it a
[00:19:22] small business. Elaine explained that
[00:19:24] that's when Crutchfield found a new
[00:19:26] quote small business and starts the
[00:19:29] process all over again.
[00:19:31] >> Firmage has been very smart in life. He
[00:19:34] never exceeds the small business
[00:19:36] threshold, right? So once he hits gets
[00:19:39] close to the threshold, he starts
[00:19:41] another company.
[00:19:42] >> They give you so many years to make so
[00:19:44] much money to do so good. Then once you
[00:19:46] get to that point, they stop. Then you
[00:19:48] have to develop another corporation and
[00:19:50] get that one going, right? So you kind
[00:19:52] of always before one ends you start
[00:19:54] another one to get keep on going. So you
[00:19:56] just change the name start a new company
[00:19:58] and then you're back into the system.
[00:20:00] >> We met up with Meline a second and third
[00:20:03] time eventually revealed that we were
[00:20:05] undercover journalists doing a story on
[00:20:07] the potential corruption throughout
[00:20:09] ATI's operations. So we have some news
[00:20:12] for you here. Okay. We're actually
[00:20:14] investigative reporters. My name is
[00:20:16] James O'Keefe. I'm an invest
[00:20:19] >> I'm an investigative reporter. And you
[00:20:21] you're on about
[00:20:23] >> Okay, we can we can but but
[00:20:27] >> and it's important to note that Meline
[00:20:29] Cromwell, director of contracts,
[00:20:31] repeatedly stated that everything we
[00:20:33] secretly recorded her saying was just
[00:20:35] her opinion. She reiterated that many
[00:20:38] times after I took off my wig and
[00:20:40] identified myself as an investigative
[00:20:43] reporter. will be releasing that
[00:20:44] interaction with Meline along with part
[00:20:46] two of this story featuring another
[00:20:50] employee at ATI later this week. Stay
[00:20:54] tuned for that. And here's to here's to
[00:20:57] passroughs.
[00:20:58] >> There you go.
[00:20:59] >> How about that?
[00:21:00] >> Yeah, exactly.
[00:21:01] >> Exactly.
[00:21:04] >> In in vino
[00:21:07] party like a Jim Keith party.
[00:21:10] >> Oh my gosh. I can't believe that. I
[00:21:13] can't believe that. This is
[00:21:16] >> This is unbelievable. She said 20%. They
[00:21:18] only do 20% of the work.
[00:21:19] >> I heard that part. I was like, "Boom."
[00:21:20] Got it.
[00:21:20] >> She said, "Don't tell anybody."
[00:21:22] >> Yeah.
[00:21:23] >> Only on paper. She said only on paper.
[00:21:24] >> Only oning.
[00:21:26] >> Only on paper. She said passroughs. She
[00:21:28] said, "But we don't want that to leave
[00:21:29] this." She says, "Loopholes, passroughs.
[00:21:32] We only do 20% of the work." I mean,
[00:21:35] this is this is unbelievable. We got the
[00:21:38] story, man.
[00:21:39] [Music]
[00:21:44] That's the investigation. Um,
[00:21:48] what you just saw is a microcosm
[00:21:50] of one of the biggest scams in American
[00:21:52] history. A hundred billion dollars a
[00:21:54] year. A system long described as an open
[00:21:56] secret in Washington. That's what people
[00:21:58] described it to me as. One that dwarfs
[00:22:01] the US aid scandal. Dwarfs the US aid
[00:22:04] scandal. And at its center lies this 8A
[00:22:07] program. Now, you might be thinking,
[00:22:09] well, that's that's helping minority
[00:22:11] people. This company isn't even run by
[00:22:13] minority people. These are run by white
[00:22:16] guys. Firmage Crutchfield is his name.
[00:22:20] And behind the facade, the investigation
[00:22:22] uncovered illegal pass through schemes,
[00:22:26] shell companies exploiting the very
[00:22:29] systems for profit they were designed to
[00:22:31] protect. According to the USBA,
[00:22:34] that's $630 billion in federal
[00:22:37] contracts, $183 billion in 2024 alone.
[00:22:41] And this undercover investigation is
[00:22:43] just getting started. And we are going
[00:22:46] to hear from some of the people who
[00:22:48] helped make it happen as well as your do
[00:22:50] as your well as your calls. The comments
[00:22:52] are blowing up. People want arrests. I
[00:22:55] will tell you the Department of Justice
[00:22:56] has the story.
[00:22:59] They've been sent the story. So, we'll
[00:23:01] be right back after these words and then
[00:23:04] we will get to the call-ins. See you
[00:23:06] guys in a minute.
[00:23:08] This is James O'Keefe. You know me for
[00:23:10] exposing the truth and holding the
[00:23:12] corrupt elite responsible and
[00:23:14] accountable. However, today I want to
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[00:24:21] Always check with your licensed
[00:24:22] financial adviser before you invest.
[00:24:29] This is James O'Keefe.
[00:24:34] >> Welcome back to the Price is My Life.
[00:24:36] Let's play the Let's play the first two
[00:24:38] minutes of that video one more time for
[00:24:41] those who just tuning in. This is a
[00:24:43] breaking investigation.
[00:24:49] >> All right. They do all the work.
[00:24:52] >> No, we don't. So we we do about 20% of
[00:24:55] the work.
[00:24:56] >> These government contractors like ATI
[00:24:59] taking advantage of their special
[00:25:01] minority owned status
[00:25:02] >> and and I tell you passroughs are a
[00:25:04] great thing as well. So a lot of our
[00:25:06] subcontractors bid on contracts that
[00:25:09] were uh perfect in their industry, but
[00:25:13] because they weren't Native American,
[00:25:15] they wouldn't win it. So we bid on it
[00:25:17] for them. They became our sub. And it's
[00:25:20] an automatic win because your Native
[00:25:22] American status.
[00:25:24] >> Isn't that exciting? Right. I think a
[00:25:25] lot of people don't know that.
[00:25:27] >> I don't think anybody knows that.
[00:25:28] >> And we want to keep it that way.
[00:25:30] >> That's right. That's a lot secret. You
[00:25:33] know what I mean?
[00:25:33] >> Exactly.
[00:25:34] >> Taking the money in, subcontracting much
[00:25:37] of the work out.
[00:25:38] >> I sit back, collect my percentage, and
[00:25:41] they do the work.
[00:25:42] >> Correct.
[00:25:43] >> Yeah. They're doing most the work. to
[00:25:45] get the contracts, get the money, act as
[00:25:48] a pass through, and it's the taxpayer
[00:25:51] who gets screwed over.
[00:25:52] >> Was there some rules or something that
[00:25:54] you were telling me about like you have
[00:25:55] to report 51%
[00:25:58] >> 51 on paper?
[00:25:59] >> Correct.
[00:26:00] >> Right.
[00:26:00] >> As long as on paper.
[00:26:01] >> As long as it's on paper.
[00:26:02] >> 51%. You're good to go.
[00:26:04] >> And remember, there's no competition cuz
[00:26:07] you're Native American.
[00:26:09] >> Ding ding.
[00:26:09] >> That's the That's the best kept kept
[00:26:11] secret.
[00:26:12] >> It is indeed.
[00:26:13] >> It is. It is. Go ahead.
[00:26:15] >> And here's to here's to passroughs.
[00:26:17] >> There you go.
[00:26:18] >> How about that?
[00:26:20] >> Exactly.
[00:26:21] >> Exactly.
[00:26:23] >> In in vinoasing
[00:26:28] the criminals there in Veritas, Latin
[00:26:32] for in wine there is truth. Ironically,
[00:26:34] she I don't even think she drank more
[00:26:35] than half a glass of wine. Um, we have
[00:26:39] Eric Cochran on the line, my colleague
[00:26:41] who is with me at Project Veritas. And
[00:26:43] Eric helped develop some of the
[00:26:46] background materials to go undercover.
[00:26:48] We're going to get feedback from Eric.
[00:26:50] We also have Mike Howell, who is on the
[00:26:52] oversight project at Heritage
[00:26:54] Foundation. We're going to dive into
[00:26:55] this investigation and all that it
[00:26:56] means. And as soon as we wrap up the
[00:26:58] show, we're going to post these videos
[00:27:00] to all of social media. We're doing
[00:27:02] something we've never done before, which
[00:27:03] is airing this investigation on a live
[00:27:06] show. this this very in-depth
[00:27:09] investigation. Eric Cochran. Eric, are
[00:27:11] you there?
[00:27:13] >> I'm here, James.
[00:27:14] >> Hey, Eric, how you doing?
[00:27:17] >> I'm doing really well. I'm glad to see
[00:27:20] this release happening. I'm glad to see
[00:27:21] the response. Uh I I know it was a lot
[00:27:23] of fun for me and I think for you, too.
[00:27:26] >> Well, Eric, can you just give the
[00:27:28] audience because you were involved in
[00:27:29] this investigation and first of all, uh
[00:27:32] you've seen the piece, you've seen uh
[00:27:34] what's been uncovered. Um, just tell the
[00:27:36] audience a little bit about how
[00:27:39] sophisticated this investigation was to
[00:27:42] get going. You this was not a dating app
[00:27:45] investigation. Just go into the
[00:27:47] background of what you're willing to
[00:27:48] share about the methodology on putting
[00:27:50] this together.
[00:27:53] >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, normally I
[00:27:55] don't get into the tactics and
[00:27:56] everything, but I think you've let the
[00:27:57] cat out of the bag now at this point.
[00:27:59] You know, investigation complete. So,
[00:28:01] yeah, this was this was really fun to
[00:28:04] put together. Uh, like James said, I I
[00:28:06] helped set up a couple of these meetings
[00:28:08] with these employees at ACI. Um, we set
[00:28:13] up a website for a fake IT, you know,
[00:28:18] vague government solutions company. Sort
[00:28:21] of like API, right? Like, uh, you know,
[00:28:24] what do we really do? Oh, we get like
[00:28:26] government contracts. We're just like
[00:28:28] you. Um then with this lady in the video
[00:28:31] you see today
[00:28:34] um she happened to run a cinjun catering
[00:28:38] company and uh we said well our our
[00:28:42] company needs catering for a big
[00:28:44] conference. We we are going to invite
[00:28:46] all these government employees and all
[00:28:48] these clients uh can you meet with us?
[00:28:51] And so we had a meeting of actually
[00:28:53] discussing uh her cinjun catering. So,
[00:28:57] that was that was very fun. Uh, I think
[00:29:00] everybody involved had had a lot of fun.
[00:29:03] I uh I know everybody liked seeing your
[00:29:06] disguise. That was fun picking out.
[00:29:09] >> Yeah. Yep.
[00:29:10] >> So, Eric, so we actually have the wig.
[00:29:12] This is This is the wig here.
[00:29:14] >> This is the wig. People are talking
[00:29:16] about why don't they recognize me? Uh
[00:29:19] why why do you think I mean, you were
[00:29:21] there uh filming some B-roll in the
[00:29:23] restaurant. a lot of people in the
[00:29:25] comments. Half the comments are I'm just
[00:29:27] going to tell you guys, I'm watching
[00:29:28] live all the comments. Half of the
[00:29:31] comments, Eric, are um no one will be
[00:29:34] held accountable. No one will go to
[00:29:35] jail. Those are half the comments. The
[00:29:37] other half of the comments are, "I can't
[00:29:40] believe people don't recognize James
[00:29:42] O'Keeffe with the ridiculous wig."
[00:29:44] What's your take on why she didn't
[00:29:46] What's What's your take on that with the
[00:29:48] wig?
[00:29:49] >> Well, why she didn't recognize you? I
[00:29:51] mean people um people see what they
[00:29:54] expect to see, right? Like people are
[00:29:56] expecting to see the uh government
[00:29:59] contractor businessman. And so when you
[00:30:03] know it all goes to craft work if you
[00:30:05] set up the backstory, you've set up the
[00:30:07] alias like you said this was this was
[00:30:10] not what uh some might call a smash and
[00:30:12] grab a a one-time meeting. This was this
[00:30:15] took months of investigations. It set up
[00:30:17] a lot of backstory and so then people
[00:30:19] are expecting to see the businessman
[00:30:21] that that you you know played the part
[00:30:23] of and um as for you oh nothing will
[00:30:27] happen. I mean this story is so big I
[00:30:31] know you've said it if if prosecutors
[00:30:34] don't if if the if the department of
[00:30:36] justice is not going to prosecute these
[00:30:37] blatant crimes like she said they're
[00:30:39] defrauding the they're defrauding the
[00:30:41] taxpayers. I if there's not if there's
[00:30:44] not accountability, then we'll have to
[00:30:46] investigate the prosecutors. We'll have
[00:30:48] to investigate why are they not
[00:30:50] prosecuting this fraud. Uh but I think
[00:30:52] this is such a big story that uh that
[00:30:56] necessitates uh uh criminal
[00:30:58] investigation. So uh I think those
[00:31:01] people are going to be very surprised.
[00:31:03] >> This is this is news to me, but it makes
[00:31:05] the USA ID scandal pale in comparison.
[00:31:10] This is this is $600 billion just to
[00:31:13] give you some context. People don't
[00:31:14] really care about statistics, but $2
[00:31:16] billion $2 trillion is the deficit and
[00:31:20] this is $630 billion. um the DOJ
[00:31:24] investigating. Yeah, I think I mean
[00:31:26] >> I mean these people should go
[00:31:28] >> two points to there. Yeah, go ahead.
[00:31:29] There's there's the criminal aspects of
[00:31:32] the you know the the potential crimes
[00:31:34] that ATI seem, you know, appears to be
[00:31:36] committing and uh and then there's also
[00:31:39] just the abuse of an existing system
[00:31:42] with the SBA that that might necessitate
[00:31:45] uh legislative action. So I I think
[00:31:47] there's two possible
[00:31:48] >> talk for a minute. Yeah, perhaps both.
[00:31:51] >> We're getting very wonky here. Um, what
[00:31:55] what does 8A mean? Just re Let's go over
[00:31:57] that one more time. This is this in 8A
[00:32:00] is like a like a minorityowned disadvant
[00:32:03] this is what it says. Small
[00:32:04] disadvantaged business concerns. Talk
[00:32:06] about this 8A business and what a super
[00:32:08] 8A is for the people who have no idea
[00:32:10] what we're talking about.
[00:32:13] >> Yeah. You know, I'm not a lawyer, but
[00:32:15] I'll give my understanding. The Small
[00:32:17] Business Administration of course awards
[00:32:20] contracts to tech companies uh for their
[00:32:24] IT etc you know needs in in different
[00:32:27] government departments and of course if
[00:32:30] they didn't carve out um uh exceptions
[00:32:34] for small businesses then Microsoft and
[00:32:36] Amazon would own all the contracts
[00:32:38] that's a problem you know nobody the
[00:32:40] government would be unfairly uh uh be
[00:32:44] these companies would outbid everybody
[00:32:45] unfairly to the government. So, the
[00:32:47] Small Business Administration, of
[00:32:48] course, there's a good intention behind
[00:32:50] this. And then the 8A specifically uh is
[00:32:54] to allow for disadvantaged and minority
[00:32:57] companies to have access uh to to these
[00:33:00] bids. The problem of course here is the
[00:33:04] potentially illegal aspect that ATI is
[00:33:07] doing where they're pretending they're,
[00:33:08] you know, essentially, you know, we can
[00:33:10] get in the weeds, but essentially
[00:33:11] they're pretending to be a business a
[00:33:14] minority business to get these no bid
[00:33:16] contracts.
[00:33:17] >> Um, and it is illegal for the the uh 8A
[00:33:22] program to sub out the work and do none
[00:33:24] of the work. Correct.
[00:33:27] >> We're right. I mean, and and she the the
[00:33:30] subject you see in the video today, she
[00:33:32] explicitly says, "Yeah, on paper, we
[00:33:34] have to say we do 51% of the work, but
[00:33:37] re in reality, we do 20% of the work."
[00:33:39] So, that's that's defrauding the the
[00:33:40] taxpayers.
[00:33:41] >> All righty. Well, let Thank you very
[00:33:43] much, Eric Cochran, and I appreciate
[00:33:45] your call. I appreciate you're helping
[00:33:47] us with this investigation. Uh, can we
[00:33:49] play the first two minutes of the video
[00:33:51] again just to to People are tuning in.
[00:33:53] This is a live show. People haven't seen
[00:33:56] this and it's so hard to digest a lot of
[00:33:58] information. ATI does 20%, the
[00:34:01] subcontractors do 80%. That is against
[00:34:03] the law. Play it again. So do 20% and
[00:34:07] the subcontractor do like 80% of the
[00:34:09] work.
[00:34:09] >> 80% of your
[00:34:11] share that they do all the work.
[00:34:13] >> No. So we we do about 20% of the work.
[00:34:17] >> 20%. these government contractors like
[00:34:20] ATI taking advantage of their special
[00:34:22] minority owned status
[00:34:24] >> and and I tell you passroughs are a
[00:34:26] great thing as well. So a lot of our
[00:34:28] subcontractors bid on contracts that are
[00:34:32] uh
[00:34:32] >> perfect in their industry but because
[00:34:35] they weren't Native American they
[00:34:37] wouldn't win it. So we bid on it for
[00:34:39] them. They became our sub and it's an
[00:34:42] automatic win because you're Native
[00:34:44] American status.
[00:34:45] >> Isn't that exciting? Right. A lot of
[00:34:47] people don't know that.
[00:34:48] >> I don't think anybody knows that.
[00:34:50] >> And we want to keep it that way.
[00:34:51] >> That's right. That's a
[00:34:54] >> secret. You know what I mean?
[00:34:55] >> Exactly.
[00:34:56] >> Taking the money in, subcontracting much
[00:34:59] of the work out. I sit back, collect my
[00:35:02] percentage, and they do the work.
[00:35:04] >> Correct.
[00:35:05] >> Yeah. They're doing most of the work.
[00:35:07] >> Get the contracts, get the money, act as
[00:35:10] a pass through, and it's the taxpayer
[00:35:12] who gets screwed over. Was there some
[00:35:14] rules or something that you were telling
[00:35:16] me about like you have to report 51%
[00:35:19] >> 51%
[00:35:19] >> 51 on paper.
[00:35:21] >> Correct. Right.
[00:35:22] >> As long as on paper.
[00:35:23] >> As long as it's on paper.
[00:35:24] >> 51%. You're good to go.
[00:35:26] >> And remember, there's no competition cuz
[00:35:28] you're Native American.
[00:35:30] >> Ding ding.
[00:35:31] >> That's the That's the best kept kept
[00:35:33] secret.
[00:35:33] >> It is indeed.
[00:35:34] >> It is.
[00:35:35] >> It is. Go ahead.
[00:35:37] >> Here's to Here's to passroughs.
[00:35:39] >> There you go.
[00:35:40] >> How about that?
[00:35:41] >> Yeah. Exactly.
[00:35:42] >> Exactly. in
[00:35:45] in venino in vino
[00:35:49] >> to passroughs. Now people keep pointing
[00:35:52] out how ridiculous the disguise is. That
[00:35:54] seems to be all anybody's focused on.
[00:35:57] But then then the question is um am I
[00:36:01] really really really good at my job
[00:36:03] being convincing as a sales guy and this
[00:36:06] this uh approach with the website with
[00:36:10] the fake website the head hunter the
[00:36:11] so-called head hunter trying to buy this
[00:36:13] woman's product on the side she's a side
[00:36:16] hustler she's doing ca raing cinjun uh
[00:36:19] catering
[00:36:20] am I really good at my job or is she
[00:36:23] really stupid
[00:36:25] okay Now
[00:36:28] for and and thank you Eric Cochran for
[00:36:31] coming in. We're going to bring Mike in.
[00:36:33] We're going to bring Mike in from the
[00:36:34] Oversight Project. Uh let me know
[00:36:36] producer when Mike is on the air. Um
[00:36:40] Mike, are you there?
[00:36:42] >> Yep, I'm here.
[00:36:43] >> Hey Mike, thank you for joining us. Have
[00:36:44] Have you had a chance to check out any
[00:36:46] of this investigation just just launched
[00:36:49] uh within the last hour?
[00:36:50] >> Oh, yeah.
[00:36:51] >> Okay. And I
[00:36:52] >> You guys did it again. My hat off to
[00:36:54] you. my hat, my wig off to you. My wig
[00:36:58] off to you. People People are saying
[00:36:59] people are f and let me just get past
[00:37:01] the disguise thing and then I'm going to
[00:37:02] get into we're going to get wonky and
[00:37:04] talk about the um the economics here,
[00:37:06] but just let me finish my point. People
[00:37:09] say, O'Keefe, I don't know what this
[00:37:11] ridiculous disguise business and and I
[00:37:13] say are they must be really stupid. So,
[00:37:16] let's talk about whether they're really
[00:37:17] stupid. The woman that you see pictured
[00:37:20] here, Meain Cromwell, the director of
[00:37:21] contracts, is no stupid individual.
[00:37:24] This is an individual uh her mom started
[00:37:27] as a receptionist at the FBI and worked
[00:37:32] all the way up to being a top executive
[00:37:35] at the FBI. I bet you didn't know that
[00:37:39] she comes from a military family. This
[00:37:42] is a very sophisticated individual. So
[00:37:45] it speaks to the heart of you know when
[00:37:48] people talk about the deep state and
[00:37:50] they think about you know the these
[00:37:51] broad shouldered individuals. This is an
[00:37:53] individual who did fall for it. Now
[00:37:57] um now you sir work you work at the
[00:38:00] Heritage Foundation. Is that correct?
[00:38:03] >> Uh the oversight project we used to be
[00:38:04] at the Heritage Foundation but a
[00:38:06] standalone operation now.
[00:38:08] >> Talk about talk about what you've seen
[00:38:10] in this investigation and your reaction
[00:38:12] to it.
[00:38:14] >> So what you've done is is shown a very
[00:38:16] bright light on a long-standing problem
[00:38:19] in federal contracting. I think you
[00:38:20] mentioned that when you go over the the
[00:38:22] background in your video. There is a
[00:38:24] giant industry out there built around
[00:38:26] using these AA kind of contractors as
[00:38:29] complete passroughs which completely
[00:38:32] defies any of the you know legislative
[00:38:34] intent of setting up what's known as the
[00:38:36] set aside program which you know we can
[00:38:39] argue over whether we should have
[00:38:40] affirmative action and racial benefits
[00:38:42] and demographic benefits like that in
[00:38:44] federal contracting. I don't think we
[00:38:46] should at all. And I think it is
[00:38:48] probably something the Supreme Court
[00:38:49] could take a a look at in light of some
[00:38:52] of the increased scrutiny on DEI
[00:38:53] practices, the uh affirmative action
[00:38:55] practices in voting rights, which we're
[00:38:58] seeing now play out in the Supreme Court
[00:38:59] as they look at the Louisiana
[00:39:01] congressional districts. But the fact
[00:39:02] remains, Congress set up a program
[00:39:04] whereby the color of somebody's skin or
[00:39:06] their membership in a native tribe can
[00:39:08] get them a benefit. And you know, there
[00:39:11] has been an entire industry built around
[00:39:13] this in Washington DC for some time.
[00:39:15] I'll tell you that policy makers are are
[00:39:17] well aware of this. This shouldn't
[00:39:18] surprise anyone in Capitol Hill. The
[00:39:21] only thing that should surprise them is
[00:39:22] that someone's finally paying attention
[00:39:23] to it and and putting on blast, which is
[00:39:26] why this video is so important. When I
[00:39:28] was on Capitol Hill, you know, 13 years
[00:39:30] ago, we would we'd hear about this stuff
[00:39:32] all the time. The federal government
[00:39:33] knows this stuff is going on, but
[00:39:35] they're content to just look the other
[00:39:37] way. And so
[00:39:38] >> why why is that? Why do they why do they
[00:39:40] look the other way?
[00:39:41] >> Cuz I' I've been told I I was embargoing
[00:39:43] this investigation for those just tuning
[00:39:46] in.
[00:39:47] >> Um we're talking uh about this story
[00:39:51] involving 8A pass through schemes. It's
[00:39:53] it's against the law. I was told in
[00:39:55] Washington DC this is an open secret
[00:39:57] that people all know about it. Why are
[00:39:59] they looking the other way?
[00:40:01] >> A couple reasons. One, it pays for a lot
[00:40:03] of you know McMansions, Adam Mlan and
[00:40:05] PTOAC. There's a reason why the Northern
[00:40:08] Virginia area and you know the Maryland
[00:40:10] surrounding areas are some of the
[00:40:11] wealthiest areas in the country. Uh
[00:40:13] people are getting rich off just this
[00:40:15] pass through scheme. And the the second
[00:40:16] reason is it's just mailbox money to
[00:40:19] Native American tribes. So you have a
[00:40:20] constituency that is just getting free
[00:40:22] federal cash and you know their
[00:40:24] political connections don't want to take
[00:40:26] that away. And so there's no real
[00:40:29] interest group fighting for the American
[00:40:31] people and the taxpayer and for fairness
[00:40:32] in all this, you know, which is why you
[00:40:35] jumping out there and shining a light on
[00:40:36] it actually gives the people a voice in
[00:40:38] this in this debate.
[00:40:39] >> But it's not just Native American, it's
[00:40:41] it's 8A, which is all uh dis quote
[00:40:44] unquote socially disadvantaged firms and
[00:40:46] organizations. And and isn't it isn't it
[00:40:49] illegal? The Supreme Court calls it wire
[00:40:51] fraud to for a a contractor to sub out
[00:40:54] work and then do less than half of the
[00:40:58] work. It's under 51. It's called the 51%
[00:41:00] rule. Are you familiar with that rule?
[00:41:03] >> Yep. So, it'll it'll hinge there on, you
[00:41:05] know, the admission you got on camera
[00:41:07] when she said 20%. Now, does that match
[00:41:10] with what they're doing in practice? I'm
[00:41:11] sure she wasn't, you know, exaggerating
[00:41:13] the opposite way. And so they're going
[00:41:15] to, you know, if they get charged with
[00:41:16] fraud, that's what it'll come down to as
[00:41:18] to what percent of the work they were
[00:41:20] actually doing. Now, keep in mind, a lot
[00:41:22] of these firms have been, you know,
[00:41:24] engaged in these tactics broadly for a
[00:41:26] long time. So, I'm sure there's all
[00:41:27] sorts of paperwork tricks and misleading
[00:41:30] ways they try to set it up to get that
[00:41:31] 51% number. But she told you 20%, James,
[00:41:35] >> she told us 20% you have to do over 51%
[00:41:38] of the work if you're going to sub out
[00:41:40] the work as an 8A. Now, Meline Cromwell,
[00:41:44] we did hear back from Molain, and we're
[00:41:45] going to get to that in a minute. But,
[00:41:47] um, anything else, sir, Mike, you want
[00:41:49] to say about this investigation? And
[00:41:51] people are asking in the comments, well,
[00:41:53] no one will go to jail, no one will be
[00:41:55] held accountable. As the president of
[00:41:57] the Oversight Project and a heritage
[00:41:59] alumnist with experience on Capitol
[00:42:00] Hill, do you think that there should be
[00:42:03] a federal investigation into this?
[00:42:06] >> Uh, absolutely. In fact, you I'll get
[00:42:08] one step ahead of you. there there of
[00:42:10] course the investigation to this
[00:42:11] particular activity you discovered and
[00:42:14] put out there, but more broadly
[00:42:15] speaking, I'm going to call over to the
[00:42:17] Small Business Administration right
[00:42:18] after I get off the horn with you. They
[00:42:20] need to do a wholesale review of the ADA
[00:42:22] program and uh there's there's ample
[00:42:24] maneuverability for the Trump
[00:42:26] administration uh to freeze some of this
[00:42:28] funding to look at it and investigate
[00:42:29] them internally. It's the entire program
[00:42:32] that that should be under the opices of
[00:42:34] federal review. This is the uh the
[00:42:37] someone just handed me the limitations
[00:42:38] on subcontracting. Again, this stuff is
[00:42:41] very wonky, but it does say it will not
[00:42:44] pay more than 50% of the amount paid by
[00:42:46] the government for contract performance
[00:42:47] to subcontractors. They're not uh
[00:42:49] situated entities. Uh and here you have
[00:42:52] a video where the they're admitting that
[00:42:56] it's only on paper. That's called fraud,
[00:43:00] ladies and gentlemen. And I and I
[00:43:02] totally recognize that when we're
[00:43:04] talking about $600 billion of of money,
[00:43:07] who cares, right? Who cares? It's all
[00:43:09] just statistics. But Trump is in charge.
[00:43:13] Pam Bondi is the attorney general. Cash
[00:43:15] Patel is the director of the FBI.
[00:43:16] Everyone always says, "James, call Cash.
[00:43:18] Call Cash. Maybe I should text Cash
[00:43:21] right. I'm going to call Cash Patel
[00:43:22] right now." Hold on. I think I've got a
[00:43:25] cell phone. Call Cash. Call Cash. Call
[00:43:27] Cash. If the administration of justice
[00:43:30] requires that each individual contact
[00:43:33] the president and the head of the FBI
[00:43:38] just to get justice in this country. I
[00:43:41] mean, I'm going to call cash right now.
[00:43:42] Call cash. Call.
[00:43:48] I'm calling the director of the FBI
[00:43:52] right now because everyone says call
[00:43:53] cash.
[00:43:55] See
[00:44:16] Your call has been forwarded to
[00:44:17] voicemail.
[00:44:19] >> All right, I'm going to text him.
[00:44:22] Hey, Cash.
[00:44:24] Oh, we just broke a massive story on
[00:44:28] wire fraud.
[00:44:30] uh subcontractors
[00:44:34] stealing hundreds of billions of dollars
[00:44:38] cuz I I see your comments. I hear what
[00:44:41] you're saying. Nobody's held accountable
[00:44:42] for anything. I mean I that's not I mean
[00:44:45] that's not my role. You guys elect these
[00:44:48] people. You you many of you donate to
[00:44:50] these politicians. Now granted most of
[00:44:52] the donations to the politicians aren't
[00:44:54] because people donors want to be
[00:44:57] altruistic. They want to get favors for
[00:44:58] their self-interest dealings, but that's
[00:45:01] beside the point. Um, I I I just sent
[00:45:04] cash the story.
[00:45:06] Uh, good. So, that that's that's I've
[00:45:08] done my part as an American. Now, let's
[00:45:11] talk. Uh, okay. We still have Mike on
[00:45:14] the phone. Mike, anything else you want
[00:45:15] to add to the story before we go to the
[00:45:18] the reaction from the officials in the
[00:45:20] tape?
[00:45:22] No, I think it's a great job and again,
[00:45:24] you know, let's lean on the Small
[00:45:26] Business Administration, too, because
[00:45:27] there's probably a lot more of this.
[00:45:29] They should take a hard look at the
[00:45:30] program overall. I bet you there's many
[00:45:32] more ATIs out there.
[00:45:34] >> Thank you. Thank you very much, Mike
[00:45:36] Howell, president of the Oversight
[00:45:38] Project. Talk to you real soon. Now,
[00:45:40] let's go to the reactions to the video.
[00:45:43] as you all saw in the video. Um, and if
[00:45:46] producer, we can go to the part of the
[00:45:47] video where I confront I confront Me
[00:45:50] Cromwell and take off my wig. If we
[00:45:53] could go to that part of the video. Uh,
[00:45:55] we do have a reaction. Let's let's take
[00:45:57] a look at this this moment when I
[00:45:59] confront Meline there. We're going to
[00:46:01] have this full interaction coming to you
[00:46:03] later in the week, but just play this
[00:46:05] little clip if we could
[00:46:10] >> for you here. Okay. We're actually
[00:46:12] investigative reporters. My name is
[00:46:14] James O'Keefe.
[00:46:16] >> I'm an investig I'm an investigative
[00:46:18] reporter and you you're on about
[00:46:22] >> Okay, we can we can but but just
[00:46:25] >> Okay. And then and then she actually she
[00:46:27] actually told us to turn the cameras
[00:46:29] back on and she gave us her comment. So
[00:46:31] this is if we could please go to
[00:46:32] Meline's response. Do we have the emails
[00:46:35] in response? We reached out for comment
[00:46:38] to Melain Cromwell and it says quote,
[00:46:41] "Dear O'Keefe, I am not affiliated with
[00:46:44] ATI and I have not authorized to speak
[00:46:46] on behalf of the company." Now, we
[00:46:49] understand that she has since just left
[00:46:51] ATI. So, it's interesting how she says
[00:46:53] that. Uh, she's the director of
[00:46:55] contracts for ATI at the time of this
[00:46:57] recording. As I mentioned during our
[00:46:59] prior interaction, any inquiries or
[00:47:00] operations should be directed at the
[00:47:02] company's leadership.
[00:47:04] Please refrain from quoting me as any
[00:47:08] representation of my words without my
[00:47:09] consent would be unauthorized. Now,
[00:47:12] here's the thing about unauthor
[00:47:13] unauthorization.
[00:47:15] All good investigative journalism is not
[00:47:18] authorized.
[00:47:20] We don't get the consent of the bad guys
[00:47:22] that we bust. And that's really the
[00:47:25] that's really the issue, isn't it? Isn't
[00:47:28] the problem in media that people require
[00:47:31] consent of the villain?
[00:47:33] I don't want your consent.
[00:47:36] You're you're stealing money. You're not
[00:47:39] going to tell me that you're stealing
[00:47:40] money. Let's go to the rest of the
[00:47:42] statement. Please refrain. I will not be
[00:47:44] providing further comment.
[00:47:47] Okay, let's take a look. Do we have any
[00:47:48] others? Did she send another email?
[00:47:51] Okay. What's really interesting about
[00:47:52] this? Can we go to the timestamp of the
[00:47:54] previous email that she sent?
[00:47:57] Go to the This is 8:34 a.m. on Friday.
[00:48:00] We reached out. Now, go to the new
[00:48:01] email.
[00:48:03] And then one hour later on Friday
[00:48:06] morning, she sent another email
[00:48:09] following my earlier email. I would like
[00:48:12] to clarify that at the time of our
[00:48:15] initial interaction, you did not
[00:48:17] identify yourself as a journalist.
[00:48:20] You introduced yourselves as conducting
[00:48:22] the meeting under Sevzero. That was the
[00:48:23] name of our fake website.
[00:48:25] I was not informed. This woman looks
[00:48:27] like she's setting up to sue us. I was
[00:48:29] not informed that our conver by the way
[00:48:31] I get sued once a month. That hasn't
[00:48:32] stopped me. Let's keep going. I was I
[00:48:35] was not informed that our conversation
[00:48:38] or any recordings was affiliated with
[00:48:41] O'Keeffe Media. Approximately a month
[00:48:44] later, individuals approached me
[00:48:45] unexpectedly with cameras
[00:48:48] and wigs, including the use of a wig.
[00:48:52] Yes. Now you know that there's a wig cuz
[00:48:53] I took it off. Can we show the audience
[00:48:55] what the wigs look like again?
[00:48:58] There it is.
[00:49:01] So the question for the director of
[00:49:02] contracts at ATI is
[00:49:05] how bad are you? Your f your mother was
[00:49:08] in the FBI.
[00:49:10] Your father was in the military. I I
[00:49:12] believe you're the director of
[00:49:14] contracts. Hundred millions of dollars
[00:49:16] of contracts. And you don't even know
[00:49:17] that this is a wig until I take it off.
[00:49:20] Uh during the meeting, regardless of any
[00:49:24] state consent laws. No, she's definitely
[00:49:26] trying to set me up for a lawsuit here,
[00:49:28] cuz in Virginia, where this is recorded,
[00:49:29] it's legal. I did not consent to the use
[00:49:32] or public dissemination of my image, and
[00:49:34] I do not authorize OMG or any affiliated
[00:49:37] parties to do so. Please ensure that no
[00:49:38] portion of these interactions of my name
[00:49:40] is used, published, or referenced. Uh,
[00:49:42] there's something called the
[00:49:44] Constitution.
[00:49:46] It's called the first amendment and that
[00:49:48] allows me to repeat to other people what
[00:49:51] you said in Virginia which is where we
[00:49:54] recorded you. So you don't get to tell
[00:49:57] me not to publish what you said. I
[00:49:59] reserve all rights regarding any
[00:50:01] unauthorized. Okay. So that's the
[00:50:03] response from Melan Cromwell. That's not
[00:50:07] the only thing she said. She said more.
[00:50:09] We'll publish that later in the week.
[00:50:12] And yeah, this is a breaking story,
[00:50:14] developing story. The real question is
[00:50:16] uh will these people be prosecuted? And
[00:50:20] we've reached a point in American
[00:50:22] society that if they're unwilling or
[00:50:24] unable to be prosecuted, we have to ask
[00:50:27] very fundamental questions. Um questions
[00:50:30] that I don't want to ask, but that's
[00:50:33] where we are. Um
[00:50:36] uh let's see. We are closing out the
[00:50:40] show here and
[00:50:44] we're going to call Crutchfeld. Okay.
[00:50:46] We're going to make a few more phone
[00:50:47] calls to people on the air to get
[00:50:50] additional comment. I doubt they're
[00:50:51] going to answer the phone, but do we
[00:50:53] have those phone numbers for those
[00:50:55] individuals?
[00:50:56] Let's get those phone numbers for those
[00:50:58] individuals so we can go ahead and make
[00:50:59] those calls. to Crutchfeld who is the
[00:51:03] CEO of of th of the organization ATI. We
[00:51:08] have those phone numbers. Come on team,
[00:51:09] let's send me those phone numbers. We're
[00:51:11] going to go ahead and we're going to
[00:51:12] call these individuals. This is the CEO
[00:51:15] of ATI. Fermage Crutchfield is his name.
[00:51:18] Here we go. We're going to call
[00:51:21] uh Fermage Crutchfield at ATI to see if
[00:51:24] he has any response to what we've said.
[00:51:29] This is the Kermitage Crutchfield is not
[00:51:31] Native American. He's a white guy.
[00:51:34] And we're going to call go call call
[00:51:36] Main again. Call Me Cromwell again on
[00:51:39] the cell phone.
[00:51:42] Firmage Crutchfield,
[00:51:46] chief executive officer, ATI Solutions.
[00:51:54] >> No response. We have reached the desk of
[00:51:56] Hermanage Crushfield, chief executive
[00:51:58] officer of ATI government solutions at
[00:52:00] Circa Federal Services Incorporated.
[00:52:04] >> Please leave a message at the tone.
[00:52:06] Thank you.
[00:52:08] >> Hey, uh, Fermage Crutchfield, this is
[00:52:10] James O'Keefe at OMG. Just giving you a
[00:52:12] call. Uh, your company, your
[00:52:15] organization is all over the internet as
[00:52:18] a result of our investigation showing
[00:52:20] your director of contract stating that
[00:52:22] you guys do only 20% of the work.
[00:52:24] Federal law requires you do 51% of the
[00:52:26] work when receiving hund00 million
[00:52:27] contracts according to federal law. So
[00:52:30] my question for you is um why did your
[00:52:33] director of contract say that you're
[00:52:34] breaking the law and I'd like your
[00:52:37] comment and please call me back. Thank
[00:52:39] you so much. So that's the CEO of ATI.
[00:52:42] Let's call back Melain Cromwell. This is
[00:52:47] her cell phone which I will not say on
[00:52:50] the air.
[00:52:52] People like me. People like it when I do
[00:52:53] this. This is what you have to do as a
[00:52:55] reporter to call for comment. We're
[00:52:58] going to do it live. We have no idea
[00:52:59] what's about to happen.
[00:53:04] >> You reached the voicemail of me AC
[00:53:06] Richards. Unfortunately, I am unable to
[00:53:08] take your call, but if you leave me a
[00:53:10] message, I'll be sure to call you back.
[00:53:12] >> Thanks.
[00:53:14] >> At the tone, please record your message.
[00:53:16] When you finished recording, you may
[00:53:18] hang up or press one for more options.
[00:53:21] >> Hey there, Meline. This is James O'Keefe
[00:53:23] again. I I have a follow-up question.
[00:53:25] Why did you send two requests for
[00:53:27] comment? Um, are you planning to sue me
[00:53:29] for quoting you and um the video is
[00:53:33] live, so uh we'd love we'd love to talk
[00:53:37] to you. We're live on the air right now,
[00:53:39] actually. So, please call me back. Hope
[00:53:42] to hear from you soon. And um the
[00:53:45] Department of Justice has the
[00:53:46] investigation, so we'll see what
[00:53:48] happens.
[00:53:49] All right, that's those are the two
[00:53:51] individuals we have to talk to. And now
[00:53:54] I think we're going to we're going to
[00:53:57] kind of perhaps open it up to some some
[00:53:59] callers and some questions. For those of
[00:54:01] you just tuning in, we're going to play
[00:54:03] this video one more time from the top
[00:54:06] the top two minutes if so you can just
[00:54:08] see some of the highlights here. Uh ATI
[00:54:12] Citizen Journalism Foundation teaming up
[00:54:14] with OMG. By the way, Citizen Journalism
[00:54:16] Foundation is a nonprofit organization.
[00:54:19] Uh we're taxdeductible.
[00:54:21] This stuff is very expensive. We get
[00:54:23] sued a lot. We appreciate your
[00:54:25] donations. It used to be called Project
[00:54:27] Veritoss. Now it's called Citizen
[00:54:29] Journalism Foundation that helped fund
[00:54:31] this work. Play the top two minutes and
[00:54:34] then we'll go to some callers.
[00:54:46] So at do 20% and the subcontractor you
[00:54:49] got 80% of your work
[00:54:52] share that they do all the work.
[00:54:54] >> No. So we we do about 20% of the work.
[00:54:58] >> 20%.
[00:54:59] >> These government contractors like ATI
[00:55:01] taking advantage of their special
[00:55:03] minority owned status.
[00:55:05] >> And and I tell you passroughs are a
[00:55:07] great thing as well. So, a lot of our
[00:55:09] subcontractors bid on contracts that
[00:55:12] were uh perfect in their industry, but
[00:55:16] because they weren't Native American,
[00:55:17] they wouldn't win it. So, we bid on it
[00:55:19] for them. They became our sub and it's
[00:55:22] an automatic win because you're Native
[00:55:25] American status.
[00:55:26] >> Isn't that exciting? I think a lot of
[00:55:28] people don't know that.
[00:55:29] >> I don't think anybody knows that.
[00:55:31] >> And we want to keep it that way.
[00:55:32] >> That's right. That's a secret. You know
[00:55:35] what I mean?
[00:55:36] >> Exactly. taking the money in,
[00:55:38] subcontracting much of the work out.
[00:55:41] >> I sit back, collect my percentage, and
[00:55:44] they do the work.
[00:55:45] >> Correct.
[00:55:46] >> Yeah. They're doing most of the work.
[00:55:47] >> Get the contracts, get the money, act as
[00:55:51] a pass through, and it's the taxpayer
[00:55:53] who gets screwed over.
[00:55:55] >> Was there some rules or something that
[00:55:56] you were telling me about like that you
[00:55:58] have to report 51%
[00:56:00] >> 51 on paper? Correct. Right.
[00:56:03] >> As long as on paper.
[00:56:04] >> As long as it's on paper. 51%. You're
[00:56:06] good to go.
[00:56:07] >> And remember, there's no competition cuz
[00:56:09] you're Native American.
[00:56:11] >> Ding, ding.
[00:56:12] >> That's the That's the best kept kept
[00:56:13] secret.
[00:56:14] >> It is indeed.
[00:56:15] >> It is.
[00:56:16] >> It is. Go ahead.
[00:56:17] >> Here's to Here's to passroughs.
[00:56:20] >> There you go.
[00:56:21] >> How about that?
[00:56:22] >> Exactly.
[00:56:23] >> Exactly.
[00:56:26] >> Inino Veritas.
[00:56:28] >> I just want the bad boys.
[00:56:32] I just want the bad boys.
[00:56:35] My name is James O'Keefe.
[00:56:39] >> Turn that off.
[00:56:48] >> The first couple minutes of the video
[00:56:51] there. Uh the number the call-in number
[00:56:54] is 8647139868.
[00:56:57] That's 8647139868.
[00:57:02] We're going to be starting a space in
[00:57:04] just about 5 minutes. So, we can take
[00:57:06] anyone's calls, but 8647139868.
[00:57:12] Uh,
[00:57:14] anyone can call in. Any of you in the
[00:57:16] comments can call in. We'll take your
[00:57:17] call. I'm going to read that number
[00:57:19] again. It's 8647139868.
[00:57:26] Also, I want to tell you we're having a
[00:57:27] Citizen Journalism Awards uh November
[00:57:30] 13th. Citizenjournalist
[00:57:33] citizenjournalismgala.com.
[00:57:35] That's citizenjournalismgala.com/vote.
[00:57:37] We have a few nominees for
[00:57:39] citizenjournalist of the year. Uh those
[00:57:41] those nominees are Nick Shirley,
[00:57:44] Savannah Hernandez, Anthony Rubin, and a
[00:57:47] few others and we're asking for you guys
[00:57:49] to vote on those nominees for citizen
[00:57:51] journalism of the year. Also, my team
[00:57:54] told you to tell uh told me to tell you
[00:57:56] that we are hiring namely for a chief of
[00:57:57] staff and general counsel. So, we're
[00:58:00] looking to hire folks. We're growing
[00:58:01] here at OMG and Citizen Journalism
[00:58:04] Foundation with this breaking story.
[00:58:07] There's so much work to be done, so much
[00:58:09] corruption. If you're just tuning in,
[00:58:11] 8A, small business fraud, 8A is a
[00:58:16] special minorityowned company getting
[00:58:19] access to federal contracts through the
[00:58:21] SBA in 2024. This was $120 billion
[00:58:25] alone.
[00:58:28] Oh, we got a caller. Let's go to the
[00:58:29] caller and get some live reactions to
[00:58:31] this breaking story. Go ahead.
[00:58:40] >> Hey Dan, good to speak with you today.
[00:58:42] >> Hey, great to have you on. What's your
[00:58:44] reaction to the story?
[00:58:46] >> It's it's shocking, but then it's not
[00:58:48] shocking. You know, I had firsthand
[00:58:50] experience with this back in as early as
[00:58:52] 2004 in Iraq. And uh there was a
[00:58:56] Hawaiian uh native Hawaiian uh furniture
[00:58:59] company that got a uh contract for
[00:59:04] munitions clearance and also
[00:59:06] uh IT technical infrastructure uh in
[00:59:10] Iraq all the way back in in 2004. And
[00:59:14] obviously, you know, it it it wasn't
[00:59:18] Native Hawaiians handling the contract
[00:59:20] at all. Uh it was completely outsourced.
[00:59:23] And uh that was my first look inside to
[00:59:26] uh the whole pass through scam and
[00:59:29] really opened my eyes. Uh so yeah, today
[00:59:31] the expose that you've done is
[00:59:33] brilliant. Uh but I'm I'm not surprised
[00:59:36] really and something needs to be done
[00:59:37] about it and if nothing's done about it,
[00:59:39] like you said, we need to hold uh the
[00:59:41] people that have
[00:59:42] >> Why don't you think Well, I have two
[00:59:44] questions for you. Number one, why don't
[00:59:46] you think anything is done about it? And
[00:59:48] then this then the other question I want
[00:59:50] you to go ahead.
[00:59:52] Well, it's not their money, right? It's
[00:59:54] it's our money.
[00:59:56] So, it really doesn't matter to them
[00:59:58] that they they don't have any skin on
[01:00:00] the game, unfortunately.
[01:00:01] >> Um, there's no ownership. What What did
[01:00:04] you see? Can you just tell the world and
[01:00:06] you're live when you you said you were
[01:00:08] in Hawaii? What was the nature of what
[01:00:10] you witnessed?
[01:00:12] Well, I was in Iraq and there was a
[01:00:15] Hawaiian furniture company, a a Native
[01:00:18] Hawaiian furniture company that got a
[01:00:20] no-b contract for explosive munitions
[01:00:23] clearance and also uh IP technical
[01:00:26] infrastructure for the Iraqi government.
[01:00:28] I mean, it was it was ridiculous.
[01:00:31] >> And what was the thing that you saw that
[01:00:32] was the most ridiculous that you wish
[01:00:34] you had a camera to to uh record? What
[01:00:38] was the thing that people need to see
[01:00:39] that you saw?
[01:00:42] Well, the fact that, you know, the 51%
[01:00:44] rule that you were just speaking about,
[01:00:46] uh, obviously they didn't have 51% of of
[01:00:49] either boots on the ground or
[01:00:51] administrative staff, uh, working those
[01:00:53] contracts and they subbed them out to,
[01:00:56] uh, to other companies and it was just
[01:00:58] to get that, you know, ethnic minority
[01:01:00] advantage and, uh, and they they milked
[01:01:03] it for all they could.
[01:01:05] >> It's an open secret and this is all an
[01:01:07] open secret in Washington, isn't it?
[01:01:10] Correct.
[01:01:11] >> And the reason why it's it's not taken
[01:01:13] care of is because people people's
[01:01:15] pockets are getting lined. People are
[01:01:18] making a lot of money off of this whole
[01:01:20] fraud, this racket.
[01:01:22] >> I'm sure I'm sure there's a degree of
[01:01:23] that going on. But just like you said,
[01:01:25] that there's no ownership at all.
[01:01:27] >> No ownership.
[01:01:27] >> And uh good intentions, but has been
[01:01:31] abused and and used uh incredibly. It's
[01:01:34] it it's really really terrible.
[01:01:36] >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean this makes the USA ID
[01:01:38] scandal dwarf in comparison actually.
[01:01:41] Well, thank you
[01:01:41] >> in comparison. Yeah,
[01:01:42] >> thank you so much for the call in. Do we
[01:01:44] have any other callers on the line?
[01:01:46] >> Live reactions on YouTube.
[01:01:47] >> Some live some live reactions on
[01:01:50] YouTube. Um people say what's the number
[01:01:52] again to call? We're going to go to the
[01:01:54] X spaces here in a minute, which is live
[01:01:56] in about 2 minutes from now. It's
[01:01:59] 8647139868.
[01:02:03] 8647139868.
[01:02:05] You know, this is the first time
[01:02:09] in my 20-year career that we've broken
[01:02:11] one of our investigations on the air on
[01:02:13] the on the live show as opposed to
[01:02:15] breaking it just sort of on on X or
[01:02:18] Twitter. So, we're we're we're changing
[01:02:20] our format here. Uh Wednesday, we have
[01:02:24] another executive employee inside this
[01:02:28] firm taking money from the federal
[01:02:30] government admitting to passroughs.
[01:02:32] There's another employee, not just this
[01:02:34] individual, that we have coming
[01:02:37] Wednesday. We're going to space these
[01:02:39] out. You may remember the famous Acorn
[01:02:41] investigation from 2009 where I also had
[01:02:43] a ridiculous costume, my grandmother's
[01:02:46] chinchilla coat, and now it's not a
[01:02:48] chinchilla coat. It's just a wig. It's
[01:02:51] that simple. It's It's really really
[01:02:54] simple. People say, "Why don't How don't
[01:02:55] they recognize you?" Well, you know,
[01:02:58] maybe I'm just really good at my job.
[01:03:01] Maybe that's the answer. Um
[01:03:04] I I don't I think you guys give way too
[01:03:06] much credit to the powers that be that
[01:03:09] they think about like most people are
[01:03:12] very apathetic. They don't care as much
[01:03:14] as you. Most people don't even tune in.
[01:03:18] What's worse than fear? Apathy is worse
[01:03:21] than fear. And there's a lot of people
[01:03:22] in this country who don't really pay
[01:03:24] attention to any of this. We have
[01:03:26] another caller on uh go ahead caller.
[01:03:30] You are live on the price of my life
[01:03:32] reacting to this crazy breakthrough
[01:03:35] breaking story on corruption.
[01:03:39] >> Go ahead.
[01:03:41] >> Hey, James. First of all, great job. And
[01:03:43] uh if you were a Democrat, I think you
[01:03:45] probably win a couple Puliter prizes at
[01:03:47] this point. Uh I think that's a fact. Um
[01:03:51] but I I have a question for you. with
[01:03:52] all the discussions regarding, you know,
[01:03:54] nothing ever gets done. What can
[01:03:57] somebody like me and also what can the
[01:03:59] normal public do? I'm a creator. I have
[01:04:02] like half a million followers on
[01:04:03] YouTube. What can I do to help, you
[01:04:06] know, get the word out on these things?
[01:04:08] What can a average person do? I mean,
[01:04:10] just, you know, besides sharing it on
[01:04:12] Twitter and things like that, what else
[01:04:13] can we do to get the word out on some of
[01:04:15] these stories that obviously are making
[01:04:17] or should be making such a bigger
[01:04:19] difference?
[01:04:20] >> Okay. Uh, for that I'm gonna have to
[01:04:22] take my wig off because I go back to
[01:04:24] being James O'Keefe. I I wasn't James
[01:04:26] O'Keefe. No, I am James O'Keefe.
[01:04:28] >> My bad.
[01:04:28] >> Um, and I think we have the spaces
[01:04:30] starting in a moment. Is that right? So,
[01:04:32] we'll take this call and then we'll go
[01:04:34] to the space. Um, I get asked this
[01:04:37] question every single day by every
[01:04:40] single person that I run into. And the
[01:04:42] question is, what can I do?
[01:04:44] And um, I'll answer the question for you
[01:04:46] and I'll get your response.
[01:04:49] Tell the truth.
[01:04:50] tell the truth. Why? Let me ask you a
[01:04:52] question. Why don't you think anybody
[01:04:54] does what it is that we do here? Not
[01:04:56] they don't really do it. Why? Why don't
[01:04:59] you think they do?
[01:05:01] >> I'd like to hear your answer.
[01:05:02] >> Because they get attacked.
[01:05:04] >> Sure. I feel like it's because they get
[01:05:06] attacked. And And for somebody like me,
[01:05:08] I don't like to divide people. I think
[01:05:10] the most evil word in the world is
[01:05:11] division. Like all they do is try to
[01:05:13] divide people, whether it be politics,
[01:05:15] religion, whatever it may be. And I feel
[01:05:18] like it's been taboo. You don't want to
[01:05:20] like for for me example I have a
[01:05:22] following and every time I've tried to
[01:05:24] do something everyone has said don't do
[01:05:26] that you're just going to divide people
[01:05:28] and and I'll get to the point where I
[01:05:30] don't care I don't care if I lose
[01:05:32] subscribers and followers cuz some
[01:05:34] people don't believe in it just like for
[01:05:36] example this rally they had the no teams
[01:05:38] rally this week and I've seen all the
[01:05:40] videos and pictures of it looks like 90%
[01:05:43] elderly people and it got me thinking
[01:05:45] that why is that and I believe it's the
[01:05:48] fact that they're not on the internet.
[01:05:50] They're on cable television. They're
[01:05:51] they're just watching what they're being
[01:05:53] told. And they still, you know, follow
[01:05:55] the rule that if it's on TV, it has to
[01:05:57] be true. And it's not. And and I feel
[01:06:00] like, you know, people that want to post
[01:06:02] their not just opinions, but you do
[01:06:04] facts. And I'm sure you still get
[01:06:06] attacked, you know. And what does But
[01:06:08] let me let me let me cut to the chase.
[01:06:11] Why Why don't you think you said people
[01:06:14] don't do this because they're going to
[01:06:16] get attacked, correct?
[01:06:18] Right.
[01:06:19] >> Okay. So, people always say, "What can
[01:06:22] So, I won't mention names,
[01:06:24] >> but this past weekend, I was asked to
[01:06:26] give a I was asked to give a a talk."
[01:06:29] >> And uh I give out hidden cameras. I
[01:06:32] record. I tell the truth. I I expose the
[01:06:35] truth for a living, right? That's what I
[01:06:36] do. But the more truth you tell, the
[01:06:39] worse it often gets. And
[01:06:42] >> I'm not sure. I think people want to
[01:06:44] feel like they're doing something, so
[01:06:45] they ask me like, "What can I do?"
[01:06:47] because I'm like their freaking
[01:06:49] therapist or something. Like they want
[01:06:51] to complain to me about they need to do
[01:06:52] more that like they feel guilty.
[01:06:55] >> And the truth is it's like do you really
[01:06:57] want to do the thing or you just want to
[01:06:58] complain that you want to do the thing?
[01:07:00] And
[01:07:01] >> good point.
[01:07:02] >> Um you know when you look at the world
[01:07:04] through assets and liabilities and
[01:07:06] making money, you're not going to tell
[01:07:07] the truth. The truth has no business
[01:07:09] model.
[01:07:11] If and and look at this look at this
[01:07:12] racket. This is a $600 billion fraud.
[01:07:15] Are we on spaces yet?
[01:07:16] >> Yeah.
[01:07:16] >> Okay. Yeah, they're going to have to
[01:07:17] they have in order to hear me, they have
[01:07:19] to have the the
[01:07:20] >> All right, we're ready.
[01:07:21] >> They have to have the um phone up to the
[01:07:24] microphone. Um we're we're just live now
[01:07:28] both on spaces and YouTube. So, I'm I
[01:07:30] have the Should I hold the thing up to
[01:07:32] the microphone so people can hear it?
[01:07:34] That's probably what I have to do.
[01:07:35] That's okay. I'll do that. Um
[01:07:37] >> I think
[01:07:39] >> No, I unmuted myself.
[01:07:41] So, I we're talking about this latest
[01:07:44] $100 billion federal contract scam
[01:07:46] exposed. And the question I'm being
[01:07:49] asked, and we're going to go ahead and
[01:07:51] publish the video now on X and YouTube
[01:07:54] and wherever videos are published, the
[01:07:55] question the caller has is um what can I
[01:07:58] do? And and honest to God, I'm really
[01:08:00] sick and tired of this question.
[01:08:02] >> I'm sick of the question. Yeah,
[01:08:04] >> I'm tired of the question. And here's
[01:08:05] why. Because you all know what you can
[01:08:07] do. And the answer is tell the truth.
[01:08:11] It's that simple. Tell the truth.
[01:08:14] >> And it's an And
[01:08:15] >> stop being worried.
[01:08:16] >> Yeah.
[01:08:17] >> I think that people are worried about
[01:08:19] liability for telling the truth, aren't
[01:08:21] they?
[01:08:23] >> I've been
[01:08:24] >> I think that's part of it. I think the
[01:08:25] other I think the other part is people
[01:08:27] they're going to get attacked. And
[01:08:29] whether it's bots or whether, you know,
[01:08:30] whatever it may be, so many people are
[01:08:33] brainwashed.
[01:08:33] >> But why are you worried? But why are you
[01:08:35] worried about being attacked? Help me
[01:08:38] understand.
[01:08:38] >> Not personally. I'm just saying that's
[01:08:39] what I think most people are. Let's talk
[01:08:41] about care about that. I don't care
[01:08:43] about losing stuff. I I want to tell the
[01:08:45] truth. I want to put it out there. I
[01:08:47] think more people need to be like you
[01:08:49] need to to risk whatever they you're
[01:08:50] risking your life. Who cares if I risk
[01:08:53] my career?
[01:08:53] >> Well, okay. But but but these are but
[01:08:55] these are self-p profofessed a lot of
[01:08:56] these people are Christian. So I guess
[01:08:59] the question you have to ask yourself is
[01:09:01] if you're worried about being attacked
[01:09:04] by men, do you fear which do you fear
[01:09:08] more? Do you fear man or do you feel
[01:09:10] God?
[01:09:11] >> Do you fear God?
[01:09:12] >> 100% God.
[01:09:13] >> If you fear God, then you shouldn't
[01:09:16] worry about being attacked by men.
[01:09:19] >> Very good.
[01:09:20] >> But but I'm not talking and this is not
[01:09:21] directed at you caller. This is directed
[01:09:23] at all the people asking me what can I
[01:09:24] do. it. Don't project your fear and your
[01:09:30] worry and your anxiety and your concern
[01:09:34] about being attacked by man onto me.
[01:09:38] You go deal with that in a church or
[01:09:40] something.
[01:09:42] But I am sick and tired of people asking
[01:09:45] a question they know the answer to.
[01:09:48] What can I do? You tell the truth. Now,
[01:09:52] there's a price associated with telling
[01:09:54] the truth.
[01:09:55] In my case, that price is I have to hire
[01:09:58] lawyers and I have to find the money to
[01:09:59] pay them.
[01:10:01] Okay? That means I have to spend
[01:10:06] much of my time raising money in the
[01:10:08] nights and weekends to make lawyers
[01:10:10] rich.
[01:10:12] And that's the price that I have to pay.
[01:10:14] It is a price I am willing to pay in
[01:10:17] order to tell the truth. You out there
[01:10:20] and we see this fraud. I'm going to play
[01:10:24] the video one more time. Um, the
[01:10:28] breaking story from OMG and Citizen
[01:10:31] Journalism Foundation, which is
[01:10:33] taxdeductible.
[01:10:34] Uh, if you want to support our work, you
[01:10:36] can donate. Uh, we're going to play the
[01:10:38] video uh again live on spaces. This is
[01:10:43] and then we're going to go to callers on
[01:10:44] spaces. We're going to go to callers.
[01:10:45] Anyone can call in uh to ask to provide
[01:10:49] their reaction to this breaking story.
[01:10:51] Go ahead, play the first three minutes.
[01:10:54] >> So at do 20% and the subcontractor do
[01:10:58] like 80% of the work.
[01:10:59] >> 80% of the work.
[01:11:01] >> You want to share that they do all the
[01:11:02] work?
[01:11:03] >> No. So we we do about 20% of the work.
[01:11:07] >> 20%.
[01:11:07] >> These government contractors like ATI
[01:11:10] taking advantage of their special
[01:11:12] minority owned status.
[01:11:13] >> And and I tell you passroughs are a
[01:11:15] great thing as well. So, a lot of our
[01:11:18] subcontractors bid on contracts that
[01:11:20] were uh perfect in their industry, but
[01:11:24] because they weren't Native American,
[01:11:26] they wouldn't win it. So, we bid on it
[01:11:28] for them. They became our sub and it's
[01:11:31] an automatic win because you're Native
[01:11:34] American status.
[01:11:35] >> Isn't that exciting? Right. A lot of
[01:11:37] people don't know that.
[01:11:38] >> I don't think anybody knows that.
[01:11:40] >> We want to keep it that way.
[01:11:41] >> That's right. That's a secret. You know
[01:11:44] what I mean?
[01:11:44] >> Exactly. taking the money in,
[01:11:47] subcontracting much of the work out.
[01:11:49] >> I sit back, collect my percentage, and
[01:11:52] they do the work.
[01:11:54] >> Correct.
[01:11:54] >> Yeah. They're doing most of the work.
[01:11:56] >> Get the contracts, get the money, act as
[01:11:59] a pass through, and it's the taxpayer
[01:12:02] who gets screwed over.
[01:12:04] >> Was there some rules or something that
[01:12:05] you were telling me about like that you
[01:12:06] have to report 51%
[01:12:09] >> 51
[01:12:09] >> on paper? Correct. Right. But
[01:12:11] >> as long as it's on paper.
[01:12:12] >> As long as it's on paper. 51%. You're
[01:12:15] good to go.
[01:12:16] >> And remember, there's no competition cuz
[01:12:18] you're Native American.
[01:12:20] >> Ding, ding.
[01:12:21] >> That's the That's the best kept kept
[01:12:22] secret.
[01:12:23] >> It is indeed.
[01:12:24] >> It is.
[01:12:24] >> Yeah, it is. Go ahead.
[01:12:26] >> Here's to Here's to passroughs.
[01:12:29] >> There you go.
[01:12:30] >> How about that?
[01:12:31] >> Exactly.
[01:12:32] >> Exactly.
[01:12:34] in in Veritas.
[01:12:44] >> My name is James O'Keefe.
[01:12:52] >> Mike Casey. Hey. Hey there. Hey there,
[01:12:54] Mike Casey who uh has worked with me at
[01:12:57] OMG and also is from the same town I'm
[01:13:00] in in New Jersey. Your reaction, Mike,
[01:13:01] to the latest story. hundred billion
[01:13:03] dollar federal contracts exposed in
[01:13:05] Washington DC.
[01:13:07] >> If there's one person who can expose
[01:13:09] this, it's James O'Keefe. And the only
[01:13:11] thing I'll say is your disguises have
[01:13:13] definitely improved. A little surprised
[01:13:15] you have the Clark glasses this time,
[01:13:16] but it's no surprise to me. Everything
[01:13:18] we've seen with Doge, everything we've
[01:13:20] seen covered up over the past several
[01:13:22] decades in this government on both
[01:13:24] sides. Um it's only a matter of time
[01:13:26] before this the dam was about to break.
[01:13:28] They pushed so far. It only it only took
[01:13:30] one real muckreaker like James O'Keefe
[01:13:31] to expose it. And this is all real. I
[01:13:34] can tell you guys just from working with
[01:13:35] James O'Keefe, everything that you're
[01:13:37] seeing with him is real. It's not an
[01:13:38] act. It's not a honeypot. It's 100%
[01:13:40] real. This is and this is one of the
[01:13:42] largest cover-ups you've seen in
[01:13:44] American history. And this should be on
[01:13:46] the front if we lived in a country with
[01:13:48] real journalism and real news like OMG.
[01:13:51] This would be on the front page of every
[01:13:52] newspaper. There'd be public trials
[01:13:54] about this. This would be the biggest
[01:13:56] story of the year. And sadly only one
[01:13:58] journalist has the the kahones to talk
[01:14:01] about it and expose it.
[01:14:02] >> So Mike, do you think that that these
[01:14:04] people will get prosecuted by the
[01:14:05] Department of Justice?
[01:14:07] >> I'd like to see that. I think that this
[01:14:09] is too big to not talk about now. Don't
[01:14:11] you think? I think that if no one goes
[01:14:14] down for this, this would be a scandal
[01:14:15] bigger than Watergate. I think they have
[01:14:17] to do something now that they this has
[01:14:19] been exposed. I think this is too big to
[01:14:22] cover up. I think that definitely you'll
[01:14:23] see someone go down whether it's a
[01:14:25] pathy, whether it's the other people
[01:14:26] from the top. I think someone's going
[01:14:28] down for this. This is too big for
[01:14:30] someone not to go down.
[01:14:31] >> Um Mike, people ask me what can I do?
[01:14:34] I've answered that question. I my answer
[01:14:36] is tell the truth even if it's really
[01:14:38] hard. Uh but people tend to be feeling
[01:14:42] that way. The two the three questions
[01:14:43] people are asking are number one, I
[01:14:46] can't believe they fell for your
[01:14:47] disguise. Uh I've already answered that
[01:14:50] question. The second question is, what
[01:14:52] can I uh well, will they be prosecuted?
[01:14:55] We'll see. And the third question is,
[01:14:57] what can I do, Mike Casey? What can
[01:14:59] people do?
[01:15:01] Easy answer to this. This is happening
[01:15:04] everywhere. This is happening in your
[01:15:05] town. It's happening in your state. It's
[01:15:07] happening in your county. It's not just
[01:15:08] it's not just happening across the
[01:15:10] nationwide. It's happening right in your
[01:15:12] backyard. Every town, your school
[01:15:14] district, everywhere you are, there's
[01:15:16] definitely the same type of fraud level
[01:15:18] and abuse that is going on. corrupt
[01:15:20] officials everywhere. Evil is everywhere
[01:15:22] as you said, James.
[01:15:24] >> And it all it takes it can't just be
[01:15:26] just James will keep doing this. All
[01:15:29] needs to step up, do their own research
[01:15:31] and investigate. Look into your town,
[01:15:33] look into your county, look into your
[01:15:34] school district, look into the people
[01:15:36] who are running your your area and
[01:15:38] expose things. Look into the the
[01:15:39] corporations that are operating in your
[01:15:41] area. Everyone has a level of government
[01:15:44] running them right now. Everyone has
[01:15:46] some corporate entity that they are
[01:15:47] listening to right now.
[01:15:50] expose it. Go out there, take your
[01:15:52] phone, take your camera, and start
[01:15:53] filming. If you just go out there and
[01:15:54] start filming things, asking questions,
[01:15:56] you'll find something. And you know, and
[01:15:58] just get involved and just and reach out
[01:15:59] to OG. They have their tip line. Ask for
[01:16:01] a camera. If you have a story, if you
[01:16:03] see something, say something. It's the
[01:16:05] oldest line in the book.
[01:16:06] >> Well, we we we had a caller earlier that
[01:16:08] saw these this this corruption in the in
[01:16:10] the federal contract, said it was an
[01:16:12] open secret. Uh, and and without putting
[01:16:16] that guy on blast and saying his name,
[01:16:19] it's like if you're seeing the fraud,
[01:16:22] then tell the truth about the fraud.
[01:16:24] >> And then people and then people say,
[01:16:25] "Well, I don't want to lose my job. I
[01:16:28] got a roof over my children's head."
[01:16:30] >> Blah blah blah.
[01:16:32] >> That's their price. Your life.
[01:16:34] >> Well, but their job that people are
[01:16:35] asking me what they can do, and I think
[01:16:38] that they know what they can do, but
[01:16:39] they just don't want to do it.
[01:16:41] >> So,
[01:16:41] >> it's too hard. It's too hard for people.
[01:16:43] >> And people say, "Well, I have children."
[01:16:44] And it's like that I I I find that to be
[01:16:46] this the the damnedest excuse because if
[01:16:49] you have children, it's almost like,
[01:16:50] "Well, well, that's even more reason why
[01:16:52] you should not live by lies. You should
[01:16:55] not rear your children in the spirit of
[01:16:57] lies. The time will come for you to
[01:16:59] stand worthy of the respect of your
[01:17:00] children." So, this notion that you have
[01:17:02] to put a roof over your head so you're
[01:17:03] going to participate in a fraud is so
[01:17:06] contrary to common sense. Mike, thank
[01:17:08] you for your reaction. Uh, keep us
[01:17:10] updated. It'll have you back on
[01:17:12] Wednesday.
[01:17:13] >> And the the wig was A+ by the way.
[01:17:15] >> The wig for those of you on spaces. You
[01:17:17] cannot see it. I will put it on one more
[01:17:19] time.
[01:17:21] This is the wig. Everyone's talking
[01:17:23] about it. I guess that's why I do it
[01:17:25] just to get people talking because $600
[01:17:27] billion doesn't really make sense to
[01:17:29] anybody, but a wig does. Thank you,
[01:17:31] Mike. Let's go to Rick Adante, PhD,
[01:17:35] Florida Tech University whistleblower.
[01:17:37] Rick is a very brave man. Rick is not
[01:17:38] afraid of anything. He continues to
[01:17:41] expose Florida Tech. But before we get
[01:17:42] into that, Rick, your reaction to this
[01:17:44] latest fraud exposed in the federal
[01:17:46] government. Sir,
[01:17:48] >> hi James. Congratulations. It's a heck
[01:17:50] of a story. I'm shocked to see it, but
[01:17:52] I'm not surprised to hear of it. Um I
[01:17:55] think it kind of gets to what other
[01:17:56] people are saying, which is what can
[01:17:58] they do cuz they know it's out there.
[01:18:00] Everyone sees it, but no one says
[01:18:01] anything about it. So, you had a comment
[01:18:03] earlier on on the the YouTube stream
[01:18:05] that made me want to call in and say
[01:18:08] that like it shouldn't it shouldn't have
[01:18:10] to take having the cell phone number of
[01:18:12] the director of the FBI in order to
[01:18:15] maybe get accountability somewhere. And
[01:18:18] I think that's the place that we've
[01:18:19] ended up at culturally and and that's a
[01:18:22] problem. Like most people don't have
[01:18:24] Cash Patel's cell phone to call on air.
[01:18:25] >> No, I mean this is this is a good point.
[01:18:27] People are saying why don't I call the
[01:18:29] director of the FBI? Why don't I call
[01:18:32] call cash? Call cash.
[01:18:35] And I kind of reject the premise that I
[01:18:37] have to call the attorney general of the
[01:18:39] United States personally, which by the
[01:18:42] way, even if I do have access to this to
[01:18:44] these people, which I don't really know
[01:18:47] them very well. I've met them, you know,
[01:18:49] I think they're nice people. Um, I don't
[01:18:53] I don't really understand. I reject the
[01:18:55] premise that to to get administration of
[01:18:57] justice, each of us has to call up the
[01:19:00] head of the department of the agency. We
[01:19:02] need people to do the right thing.
[01:19:04] >> And unfortunately, people people just
[01:19:06] don't do the right thing. They do it if
[01:19:08] they're pressured to do the right thing
[01:19:09] or they're donated to do the right thing
[01:19:10] or something.
[01:19:12] >> But um and I from our story, they said
[01:19:15] call Ronda Santis, call our meet like oh
[01:19:17] they're going to be mad. But like it the
[01:19:19] citizenry like everyday people like they
[01:19:22] are looking for action from our
[01:19:23] government across both parties and it a
[01:19:26] I think it shows that it's difficult to
[01:19:28] do. Um
[01:19:30] >> but you know we need to do we need to
[01:19:32] expect better from our government than
[01:19:33] having to have a personal line of
[01:19:34] access. That's that's that's that's
[01:19:37] something that everybody wrestles with.
[01:19:39] And you know and to that last point I
[01:19:42] mean I'm here with my kids if you can
[01:19:44] hear them in the background because this
[01:19:45] is a team effort like
[01:19:46] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rick, you have
[01:19:48] children. We can hear them. We can hear
[01:19:50] babies in the background of your home.
[01:19:52] And you're a professor. You lost your
[01:19:54] job. People often I I'll be honest with
[01:19:57] you. The the actual reason why people
[01:19:58] tell me they don't want to do this is is
[01:20:01] because they they don't want anything to
[01:20:02] happen to their families. Can you just
[01:20:05] provide a a response to that as a
[01:20:06] whistleblower who just lost your job at
[01:20:08] Florida Tech and we're going to honor
[01:20:10] you at on November 13th at Mara Lago and
[01:20:12] help you out as to why you did this
[01:20:15] despite the fact that you have a family
[01:20:17] and a roof over your head.
[01:20:18] >> That's a great point. No, it's not and
[01:20:20] despite I have a family. I did it
[01:20:22] because because I do. Children are not
[01:20:24] the excuse for cowardice. They're the
[01:20:26] reason for courage. And one of the
[01:20:28] things I've been telling people is they
[01:20:29] say what what you in relating with
[01:20:32] people today, which is like, you know,
[01:20:34] um, you know, uh, I want to make sure
[01:20:37] I'm still on audio here. You still got
[01:20:38] me? Yeah,
[01:20:39] >> I got you.
[01:20:40] >> Okay. Um,
[01:20:42] the there is a price for telling the
[01:20:45] truth. But I always remind people
[01:20:47] there's a bigger price for not. You
[01:20:49] think that you need to take care of your
[01:20:50] kids, but you know, like there's a
[01:20:52] bigger price for for hiding the truth,
[01:20:54] for lying the truth. The sin of omission
[01:20:55] is still a sin. That's a lie of omission
[01:20:57] by not saying something. You know, that
[01:21:00] is a bigger price that your soul will
[01:21:02] pay later regardless of what you'll pay
[01:21:05] for the truth in a worldly material way.
[01:21:07] >> Uh someone wrote in the comments, uh
[01:21:09] Rick, that dang James, obviously you
[01:21:12] don't have kids, not to mention the
[01:21:15] average person doesn't have the platform
[01:21:17] you have. Your response to that?
[01:21:20] >> I mean, wars aren't fought by childless
[01:21:22] men. And you know, it's not that it's
[01:21:25] it's quite presumptuous. I find it a
[01:21:27] little bit offensive on on your behalf
[01:21:28] to think that you pay no price. You
[01:21:30] don't need to have a kid to pay a
[01:21:31] serious price. I mean, like children
[01:21:34] children are immensely important, but we
[01:21:36] we must provide for them.
[01:21:38] We have to provide for their food for
[01:21:40] their soul is what you and I talked
[01:21:41] about. They need to have the confidence
[01:21:44] in you later in their life to know that
[01:21:46] you did the right thing because we have
[01:21:47] a duty and an obligation to give them a
[01:21:50] world in which they can live that's not
[01:21:52] full of the wrong of the wrong things.
[01:21:54] And that's the only way they're going to
[01:21:55] get it is somebody speaks up and says
[01:21:57] it. And the last thing I'll add to that
[01:21:58] is that, you know, in the context of
[01:22:00] like a battle and a fight, the
[01:22:02] Revolutionary War, the fight against
[01:22:04] tyranny, those were soldiers who who
[01:22:06] sacrificed, but like they had networks
[01:22:08] of shop owners of of safe houses, people
[01:22:11] who take care of them medically,
[01:22:12] financially. There's a lot people can
[01:22:14] do. If you don't see wrongdoing and
[01:22:16] going on, awesome. That's a great thing.
[01:22:18] But if you want to support the people
[01:22:20] who can, there's all sorts of ways to do
[01:22:22] it. The people, you know, it's a team
[01:22:23] effort of a whole whole hands-on deck
[01:22:27] approach. Support James, support the
[01:22:28] Citizen Journalist Foundation, support
[01:22:30] other people doing it. We've been, you
[01:22:32] know, made very aware of how important
[01:22:34] that is. This is you don't have to be
[01:22:36] the soldier on the front line dodging
[01:22:38] those metaphorical and these days
[01:22:41] physical bullets. you know, we we need
[01:22:43] people, you know, like any army and and
[01:22:46] effort, logistics, support, everything.
[01:22:48] Um there's many many things people can
[01:22:50] do by prayer and by support. I
[01:22:54] >> I think I think one of the comments here
[01:22:56] is it's amazing what horrible things
[01:22:58] good people are willing to rationalize.
[01:23:01] Come on in. Are willing to rationalize
[01:23:03] in order not to speak the truth.
[01:23:07] It's amazing the rationalizations,
[01:23:10] the horrible things we are willing to do
[01:23:13] in order to not change, including
[01:23:16] bitching at me and and asking me, "What
[01:23:18] can I do?" I'm tired of the question,
[01:23:19] "What can I do?" You know what to do.
[01:23:22] You know what to do. You're projecting
[01:23:25] your fear and your worry and your
[01:23:27] [ __ ] And I'm tired of it. I'm tired
[01:23:30] of it because I know what to do. It
[01:23:32] sucks. It's hard. Charlie Kirk said it
[01:23:34] best. your your your weekends, your
[01:23:36] evenings gone. Time in hotel rooms 120
[01:23:39] days a year. But you know what? It's
[01:23:41] worth it. It's worth it because the
[01:23:44] truth matters and justice matters and
[01:23:46] people like Rick Dante are heroes. You
[01:23:49] may not know their name. Here's the
[01:23:50] other thing. I'm sorry. I'm going to
[01:23:51] rant for a minute. Here's the other
[01:23:53] thing. We have a we have a gala to honor
[01:23:55] Rick Dante on November 13th and to honor
[01:23:57] on and to honor Kelsey Goodman from FEMA
[01:24:00] and to honor uh the Border Patrol
[01:24:02] agents. And people ask me, you know what
[01:24:05] they ask me? Which famous people are you
[01:24:07] having at your gala, James? Well, screw
[01:24:10] you two.
[01:24:12] Which famous people am I having at my
[01:24:14] gala? What the hell is wrong with you?
[01:24:18] What do you think this is, Hollywood?
[01:24:21] These people are giving up their
[01:24:22] pensions to expose child trafficking.
[01:24:26] They're the famous people. They're the
[01:24:28] heroes.
[01:24:30] And you have the audacity to ask me
[01:24:32] which famous people are going to your
[01:24:34] gal. I don't want you at the gala.
[01:24:36] People like Rick Dante are are are big
[01:24:41] men. You want big names.
[01:24:45] And this is what's wrong with our
[01:24:46] country and this is what's wrong with
[01:24:47] politics.
[01:24:50] And it has to change.
[01:24:53] The thing that we fight against is human
[01:24:55] nature.
[01:24:57] You think that you fight against the
[01:24:59] other. You think we fight against we we
[01:25:01] fight against uh uh parties. We fight
[01:25:04] against powers and principalities.
[01:25:05] That's what we fight against. The fight
[01:25:07] is within ourselves.
[01:25:09] You have to you have to look inside of
[01:25:12] yourself
[01:25:14] and you have to tell the truth. That is
[01:25:17] the answer. Rick, I'm going to go to the
[01:25:19] next caller.
[01:25:22] U we have is it Kyle? Who's next?
[01:25:28] Kyle Brosen from the oversight
[01:25:30] committee. Go ahead, sir. You're live.
[01:25:34] Oh, I'm sorry. Kyle Broden, are you
[01:25:36] there?
[01:25:37] >> Yeah, James. Hey, great great great job
[01:25:40] on this story. Uh, and really appreciate
[01:25:43] all you do to uh stand up for for for
[01:25:47] the truth here. I'm joined with Mike
[01:25:48] Howell as well. Um,
[01:25:52] wanted to
[01:25:55] get your thoughts. She said there's more
[01:25:58] coming on Wednesday. Wondering if you
[01:25:59] could give us a little bit of preview of
[01:26:01] we can expect next on this story.
[01:26:03] >> Yes, good question. Uh if you're just
[01:26:05] tuning in, we have broken a story on uh
[01:26:09] hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud
[01:26:11] and corruption in and federal contracts
[01:26:14] through 8A pass through schemes. And
[01:26:17] Melain Cromwell, the director of
[01:26:18] contracts, admits to us that they're
[01:26:21] only doing 20% of the work. It's against
[01:26:23] the law. they have to be doing 51% of
[01:26:24] the work according to the 51% rule. And
[01:26:27] this scandal makes USA aid look like the
[01:26:29] Cub Scouts. Well, that's not the only
[01:26:31] one. We have another individual coming
[01:26:33] out Wednesday, another another executive
[01:26:35] in the firm saying pretty much the same
[01:26:37] thing. Now, Melain Cromwell has
[01:26:40] responded to us in the parking lot. She
[01:26:43] said repeatedly, "Well, that's just my
[01:26:45] opinion. I was just expressing my
[01:26:46] opinion." But she was giving us concrete
[01:26:48] data and concrete numbers and concrete
[01:26:51] facts and that's the reaction from ATI.
[01:26:55] We have another story coming Wednesday.
[01:26:57] Another executive uh we wanted we wanted
[01:27:01] people we want Kyle we wanted people to
[01:27:03] react to this story properly before we
[01:27:05] break the next story. We want them to
[01:27:07] say it's an isolated incident. We want
[01:27:09] them to say stupid things like it's just
[01:27:11] my opinion and then we'll be breaking
[01:27:13] the next installment of the of the
[01:27:15] series and we'll keep breaking new
[01:27:17] videos until this gets the attention it
[01:27:19] deserves including prosecutions at the
[01:27:21] federal level. So we're going to be
[01:27:23] we're going to be doing that. Uh
[01:27:25] >> hey James Mike how here if I can jump in
[01:27:27] on something you just said. Uh if she's
[01:27:30] saying it's just her opinion. There's
[01:27:32] little something in the law for
[01:27:34] evidentiary purposes known as a
[01:27:36] statement against self-interest. It's
[01:27:38] when somebody says something that goes
[01:27:40] against their legal interest, courts
[01:27:42] give it a higher degree of admissibility
[01:27:45] for the purposes of potential legal
[01:27:47] prosecution. So, I think you're in good
[01:27:49] shape there.
[01:27:51] >> Yeah, it is it is very uh interesting
[01:27:54] that she said uh I'm just expressing my
[01:27:57] opinion when she gave specific numbers
[01:27:59] 20% of the federal contract that they're
[01:28:02] doing. So, that's very interesting to
[01:28:04] note. And she also, Meline Cromwell, the
[01:28:07] director of contracts for ATI, also
[01:28:08] threw her boss under the bus. We spoke
[01:28:12] to her uh in person and on the phone.
[01:28:15] This is Fermage Crutchfield is the CEO
[01:28:17] of ATI. We've called him for comment. We
[01:28:19] reached out to the Native American tribe
[01:28:20] in California for comment. Most of the
[01:28:23] people who work here are not Native
[01:28:24] American. The CEO isn't Native American.
[01:28:26] Meline isn't Native American. The other
[01:28:28] executive we spoke to isn't Native
[01:28:29] American.
[01:28:31] These organizations are intended to help
[01:28:33] minorities, but they're these 8A
[01:28:37] business schemes really just pass money
[01:28:40] through to uh to to line the pockets.
[01:28:43] Any other responses, guys, to this
[01:28:45] investigation?
[01:28:47] >> Yeah, I got I got another one. Ever
[01:28:48] since, you know, just an hour ago when
[01:28:50] we were talking on your show, I've been
[01:28:52] in touch with people in the
[01:28:53] administration and I could say you you
[01:28:54] certainly got a lot of people's
[01:28:56] attention and I would just uh a couple
[01:28:58] things. one, you know, SBA
[01:29:00] administrator, secretary or Laughler is
[01:29:03] a true patriot and one, you know, of
[01:29:06] Trump's senior political appointees.
[01:29:08] >> What's the name of the SBA
[01:29:09] administrator?
[01:29:10] >> That's right. That's right.
[01:29:12] >> What What is his name?
[01:29:12] >> She's tracking it. She's on it. And I
[01:29:14] think a lot of other people are going to
[01:29:16] jump on it. But I'll tell you what I
[01:29:18] think most helpful. And I know
[01:29:19] everyone's frustrated the lack of
[01:29:21] accountability because there's a lot
[01:29:23] that needs to be solving. But uh the one
[01:29:24] thing I routinely hear from our allies
[01:29:27] trying to do the right thing in the
[01:29:28] administration is that the the more
[01:29:32] amplification and outrage that can be
[01:29:34] you know generated over this is helpful
[01:29:37] for our folks who are trying to push the
[01:29:38] ball forward. Uh the people in the
[01:29:40] administration they have long lists and
[01:29:42] you know a lot of them are really great
[01:29:43] people but it's about shifting things
[01:29:45] from the middle of the priority page to
[01:29:46] the top of the priority page. And uh by
[01:29:49] you shining on a light on this, I think
[01:29:51] we've taken a giant first step, but we
[01:29:53] look forward to helping you you stay on
[01:29:55] this and encourage everyone else uh to
[01:29:57] keep asking that question, you know,
[01:29:58] what's going to happen as a result.
[01:30:00] >> Well, I mean, I I just just to address
[01:30:01] that you're saying that the there's a
[01:30:04] little bit of frustration from people
[01:30:06] because they should be doing this
[01:30:08] because it's the right thing to do, not
[01:30:10] just because there's a lot of outrage
[01:30:12] about it. But you're saying that there
[01:30:14] needs to be more angry constituents to
[01:30:17] get to get people to, you know, in the
[01:30:19] government, the SBA and and the
[01:30:21] Department of Justice to prosecute.
[01:30:23] >> Yeah. Essentially, we need to just keep
[01:30:25] pulling the fire alarm every single day
[01:30:27] to make sure this stays on the top of
[01:30:28] the priority list.
[01:30:30] >> Well, the current SBA administrator,
[01:30:31] Kelly Laughler, sworn in February 2024,
[01:30:35] 28th administrator under President
[01:30:36] Trump, is the head of the SBA. She has a
[01:30:38] copy of this investigation.
[01:30:40] >> They're tracking it.
[01:30:41] >> All right. and we will we we're we're
[01:30:44] publishing on all platforms and we're
[01:30:48] going to keep pushing the story and
[01:30:50] we're going to keep exposing it. We have
[01:30:51] another one coming out on Wednesday of
[01:30:54] this week. So, thank you guys very much.
[01:30:58] >> Hey James, this is Aladdin. How you
[01:31:00] doing?
[01:31:01] >> Hello there. You'll be the last caller
[01:31:02] today.
[01:31:03] >> Okay. Thank you. Well, uh good work and
[01:31:06] I've been also exposing uh miscellaneous
[01:31:10] government contracts. That's the name of
[01:31:12] the companies. So, uh, good work on
[01:31:15] that. I give you two companies that you
[01:31:16] need to also investigate. One is called
[01:31:18] Cherokee Federal and the other one is
[01:31:21] called Shenga.
[01:31:22] >> Can you give me those names again?
[01:31:24] >> Cherokee Federal
[01:31:27] and the other one called Shenga. You can
[01:31:30] DM me. I'll give you the names. And uh
[01:31:32] and also I can pull up the people on the
[01:31:35] government who approves these contract
[01:31:37] as well cuz I've been doing I've been
[01:31:39] doing expose since uh January uh
[01:31:43] February this year. So and uh I've been
[01:31:46] working with data republican as well.
[01:31:48] And uh uh by the way for everybody who
[01:31:50] does not know who I am, I'm a terminated
[01:31:53] GS13 intelligence officer and also I
[01:31:56] used to be a contractor as well. What's
[01:31:58] your reaction to the tape that we broke
[01:32:00] today seeing this stuff on video?
[01:32:03] >> Uh, it does not surprise me because I
[01:32:05] worked on both ends as a federal
[01:32:06] employee and as a contractor. And
[01:32:10] the the scheme going on in the federal
[01:32:13] contracting is absolutely horrendous.
[01:32:15] And they use not just uh minority owned
[01:32:18] businesses like uh the one you just
[01:32:20] exposed uh as like a uh uh uh uh
[01:32:26] American Indian, but also they use
[01:32:28] veterans. They a lot of veterans
[01:32:30] actually they skim money and people
[01:32:32] needs to start talking about that and
[01:32:34] they create these companies and they
[01:32:36] start getting contracts because they get
[01:32:38] favorable uh outcome and also black
[01:32:42] minority owned businesses as well.
[01:32:45] Um, is it all about money?
[01:32:47] >> It is. Yeah, it is. It is. I mean, if
[01:32:51] you circle back with me at some point,
[01:32:52] uh, maybe DM me, I have a conversation.
[01:32:54] I'll give you a lot of information.
[01:32:56] >> We will do that, sir. We will do that.
[01:32:57] And for, and for anyone out there that
[01:32:59] has a story to tell, and Lord knows
[01:33:00] there's a lot. The other thing you said,
[01:33:02] um, you said it doesn't surprise me. Do
[01:33:04] you think that anything surprises
[01:33:06] anybody anymore?
[01:33:09] Because I hear that question a lot. You
[01:33:11] know, it just doesn't surprise us. I'm
[01:33:13] I'm trying to figure out how to perhaps
[01:33:16] shock anybody.
[01:33:17] >> No, what I said it doesn't surprise me
[01:33:19] with the blatant with that woman saying
[01:33:23] the stuff to you when you went with that
[01:33:26] ridiculous undercover. By the way, it
[01:33:27] was pretty hilarious. And uh uh does not
[01:33:31] surprise me with the the the blatant
[01:33:35] uh admission
[01:33:37] uh because these people they got
[01:33:38] comfortable and and they think they are
[01:33:42] above everybody else because they have
[01:33:44] money and uh and this is all across all
[01:33:49] government agencies, all government
[01:33:51] contracting and the two the two
[01:33:54] government contractor contractors names
[01:33:56] they are actually even bigger scam and
[01:33:59] what you just exposed.
[01:34:01] >> Yeah. This was Cherokee Federal,
[01:34:04] which is
[01:34:05] >> Chenga
[01:34:05] >> and Chenga. Cherokee is the contract for
[01:34:07] the refugee facility in California that
[01:34:09] one of our whistleblowers exposed
[01:34:10] regarding child trafficking. So, it
[01:34:13] really does come down to Thank you very
[01:34:14] much, Aladdin. Thank you, caller, for
[01:34:16] those responses. We're going to wrap up.
[01:34:18] Yeah. By the way, by the way, yeah,
[01:34:21] Cherokee Federal, they have a monopoly
[01:34:24] on all these special operation community
[01:34:27] contracts as well. Just keep that in
[01:34:29] mind.
[01:34:30] >> Well, I'll tell you what. You know,
[01:34:32] we're there's so much work to be done
[01:34:34] and we get very spiritual really fast
[01:34:37] because everyone asked me, "What can I
[01:34:38] do?" And I when I answered the question,
[01:34:40] people don't like the answer, but the
[01:34:42] answer is to tell the truth. This is a
[01:34:44] breaking developing story live on the
[01:34:47] price. my life. We're going to be on the
[01:34:49] air today, uh, Wednesday at 1:00 and
[01:34:53] Thursday at 1:00. We're going to keep
[01:34:55] breaking new video scandals showing
[01:34:58] people in the government and in these
[01:35:00] federal subcontractors breaking the law.
[01:35:03] And before I wrap, uh, thank you, sir,
[01:35:06] for your call. I am going to call again
[01:35:08] the director of the FBI whose name is
[01:35:12] Cash Patel. Seems like a very good guy.
[01:35:15] I've met him before.
[01:35:17] Um, I'm gonna call him live, but I need
[01:35:20] his number. Oh, there's his number.
[01:35:21] Okay, I'm gonna call Cash Patel because
[01:35:24] everyone says call Cash. Call Cash. Call
[01:35:26] Pam. Call Cash.
[01:35:29] Have you talked to Trump? Um, that's
[01:35:32] what people say to me. So, I'm going to
[01:35:34] go ahead and call. This is the director
[01:35:35] of the FBI. His name is Cash Patel is
[01:35:38] his name.
[01:35:41] >> He's not answering the phone. Wait a
[01:35:44] second.
[01:35:45] >> No. No. No, no. I got one digit of the
[01:35:47] phone number incorrect. Let me try that
[01:35:49] one more time. This is the director of
[01:35:51] the FBI. Cash Patel is his name.
[01:35:55] I know his name because every other
[01:35:57] comment asked me if I've spoken to him.
[01:36:00] We'll see if he answers the phone.
[01:36:06] His people have to be prosecuted. They
[01:36:08] broke the law. We're a nation of laws.
[01:36:11] We're all equal before the law.
[01:36:16] This is what you have to do.
[01:36:23] >> All right. So, he's not answering the
[01:36:24] phone. Um, the world will not be
[01:36:27] destroyed by those who do evil, ladies
[01:36:30] and gentlemen,
[01:36:32] but by those who watch them without
[01:36:35] doing anything.
[01:36:37] All that is required for the triumph of
[01:36:39] evil is for good men to do nothing.
[01:36:44] I we will I will continue to do this
[01:36:46] work.
[01:36:48] Well, we're breaking another story on
[01:36:49] Wednesday, another on Thursday, and I I
[01:36:52] will wear this ridiculous thing
[01:36:55] to get your attention and to go
[01:36:58] undercover and to expose the fraud. But
[01:37:02] um
[01:37:05] we're going to go ahead and play this
[01:37:06] video one more time in its entirety
[01:37:10] uh for all of you here today to listen
[01:37:12] to
[01:37:14] and then this is a developing story.
[01:37:16] Until next time. This is James O'Keefe
[01:37:21] on a live edition of My Price Is My
[01:37:23] Life. Let's play the tape and I'll see
[01:37:25] you Wednesday at 1 o'clock. Go ahead.
[01:37:44] minority owned status
[01:37:46] >> and and I tell you passroughs are a
[01:37:48] great thing as well. So, a lot of our
[01:37:50] subcontractors bid on contracts that
[01:37:53] were uh perfect in their industry, but
[01:37:57] because they weren't Native American,
[01:37:58] they wouldn't win it. So, we bid on it
[01:38:01] for them. They became our sub and it's
[01:38:04] an automatic win because you're Native
[01:38:06] American status. Isn't
[01:38:07] >> that exciting? A lot of people don't
[01:38:10] know that.
[01:38:10] >> I don't think anybody knows that.
[01:38:13] >> You want to keep it that way.
[01:38:14] >> That's right. That's a secret. You know
[01:38:16] what I mean?
[01:38:17] >> Exactly. taking the money in,
[01:38:19] subcontracting much of the work out.
[01:38:22] >> I sit back, collect my percentage, and
[01:38:25] they do the work.
[01:38:26] >> Correct.
[01:38:27] >> Yeah, they're doing most of the work.
[01:38:29] >> Get the contracts, get the money, act as
[01:38:32] a pass through, and it's the taxpayer
[01:38:34] who gets screwed over.
[01:38:36] >> Was there some rules or something that
[01:38:38] you were telling me about like you have
[01:38:39] to report 51%
[01:38:41] >> 51% 51
[01:38:42] >> on paper? Correct. Right.
[01:38:44] >> But as long as on paper.
[01:38:45] >> As long as it's on paper. Sure. 51%.
[01:38:47] You're good to go.
[01:38:48] >> And remember, there's no competition cuz
[01:38:50] you're Native American.
[01:38:52] >> Ding ding.
[01:38:53] >> That's the That's That's a vest kept
[01:38:54] kept secret.
[01:38:55] >> It is indeed.
[01:38:56] >> It is.
[01:38:57] >> It is. Go ahead.
[01:38:59] >> Here's to Here's to passroughs.
[01:39:01] >> There you go.
[01:39:02] >> How about that?
[01:39:03] >> Yeah, exactly.
[01:39:04] >> Exactly.
[01:39:07] >> Inino Veritas.
[01:39:09] >> I just want the bad boys. Bad boys. I
[01:39:13] just want the bad boys.
[01:39:17] My name is James O'Keefe.
[01:39:20] >> Turn that off.
[01:39:28] >> Party like a Jim Keith party.
[01:39:31] >> What you're about to see is a microcosm
[01:39:33] of one of the biggest scams in American
[01:39:36] history. A scheme that could be costing
[01:39:38] taxpayers up to $100 billion every year.
[01:39:41] It's a system long described as an open
[01:39:43] secret in Washington, one that dwarfs
[01:39:45] the US aid fraud scandals in both scale
[01:39:49] and scope. At its center lies a
[01:39:51] government program created to empower
[01:39:53] minorityowned small businesses. But
[01:39:56] behind the facade, our investigation
[01:39:58] uncovers a network of so-called 8A pass
[01:40:01] through schemes, shell companies
[01:40:03] exploiting those very programs for
[01:40:05] profit. According to the SBA, the Biden
[01:40:08] Harris administration awarded more than
[01:40:10] $630 billion in federal contracts to
[01:40:13] these companies with over $183 billion
[01:40:17] in 2024 alone. Our undercover
[01:40:19] investigation reveals how these firms
[01:40:22] secure no bid federal contracts.
[01:40:24] >> No bidding because of your native
[01:40:26] status,
[01:40:27] >> skim over half of the money off the top,
[01:40:30] 65% of the money,
[01:40:31] >> and subcontract nearly all the work. So
[01:40:34] we we do about 20% of the work,
[01:40:37] >> defrauding taxpayers like you and
[01:40:39] betraying the very communities these
[01:40:42] programs were meant to uplift. ATI
[01:40:45] Government Solutions is a technology
[01:40:47] services company that acquires contracts
[01:40:49] to provide federal departments with next
[01:40:51] generation computing solutions. ATI
[01:40:54] acquires hundreds of millions of
[01:40:56] taxpayer dollars for these contracts.
[01:40:58] They've been particularly successful in
[01:40:59] this due to their supposed Native
[01:41:01] American 8A tribal status, meaning
[01:41:04] they're a Native Americanowned small
[01:41:06] business, which is heavily favored by
[01:41:09] federal contracts.
[01:41:14] >> Try the other one. We went undercover
[01:41:16] and arranged meetings with multiple
[01:41:18] employees to dig deeper into the truth
[01:41:20] behind their ownership, their small
[01:41:22] business status, and their excessive use
[01:41:25] of subcontractors.
[01:41:28] >> Yeah.
[01:41:28] >> Oh my gosh. That's better. Yes.
[01:41:31] >> And what we found was more damning than
[01:41:34] we ever expected.
[01:41:40] >> Jim, nice to see you.
[01:41:41] >> Nice to meet you, Jim.
[01:41:43] >> Nice to meet you, too. Let's see.
[01:41:46] >> We posed as a cyber security company
[01:41:48] which was attempting to procure
[01:41:49] government contracts through minority
[01:41:51] owned status similar to ATI. The ploy
[01:41:55] was to approach the employee for ATI not
[01:41:57] for a meeting about contracts but about
[01:41:59] obtaining catering for a corporate
[01:42:02] event. You see Meline Cromwell at ATI
[01:42:05] also on the side runs a catering
[01:42:07] business called Raen Kinjun Catering.
[01:42:11] >> So I got into government contracting.
[01:42:13] love what I do. Um, I help large and
[01:42:15] small companies win contracts with the
[01:42:17] government.
[01:42:18] >> I need you to talk about gumbo.
[01:42:21] >> I want to get to the good stuff. I mean,
[01:42:22] this is interesting. It's a little bit
[01:42:24] boring for me.
[01:42:26] >> So, I'm excited to talk to you about the
[01:42:29] Asian food today.
[01:42:30] >> Absolutely.
[01:42:30] >> We were shocked that almost immediately
[01:42:32] in the meeting, less than 2 minutes in,
[01:42:35] Melain Cromwell at ATI told us all about
[01:42:37] her position as the director of
[01:42:40] contracts for ATI. And what was your
[01:42:42] when that job? What was your title or
[01:42:44] your role there?
[01:42:45] >> I'm the director of contracts.
[01:42:47] >> You're the director.
[01:42:48] >> The director.
[01:42:49] >> The director.
[01:42:50] >> So there's no one above you in the
[01:42:51] contracts.
[01:42:51] >> There's no one above me.
[01:42:52] >> Main Cromwell goes on to explain that
[01:42:54] because ATI is supposedly Native
[01:42:57] Americanowned, they are heavily favored
[01:42:59] by government contracts and often
[01:43:01] acquire $100 million contracts with no
[01:43:05] bidding war. This enables them to quote
[01:43:08] pass through the majority of the work to
[01:43:11] companies that wouldn't usually be
[01:43:12] eligible while keeping the majority of
[01:43:14] the compensation for themselves.
[01:43:17] >> And and I tell you passroughs are a
[01:43:19] great thing as well.
[01:43:20] >> Tell me about those.
[01:43:21] >> Well, so with passroughs because you're
[01:43:23] Native American, right? If you have um
[01:43:27] there's a big bid out and there's a
[01:43:28] company that wants to bid on it that's
[01:43:30] not Native American, all they do is
[01:43:32] partner with you. They use their people.
[01:43:34] they you subcontract to them, right?
[01:43:37] They're your subs. So, a lot of our
[01:43:39] subcontractors bid on contracts that
[01:43:42] were uh perfect in their industry, but
[01:43:46] because they weren't Native American,
[01:43:47] they wouldn't win it. So, we bid on it
[01:43:50] for them. They became our sub and it's
[01:43:53] an automatic win because of the
[01:43:55] government set aside. You automatically
[01:43:57] will win that contract because your
[01:43:59] Native American status, but there's no
[01:44:01] bidding. There's no bidding war.
[01:44:03] >> No bidding war. because of your native
[01:44:05] status.
[01:44:06] >> You get it? You get it?
[01:44:08] >> A pass through scheme is when an 8A
[01:44:10] small business acts as a front to win
[01:44:13] government contracts meant for
[01:44:14] disadvantaged firms. Instead of actually
[01:44:17] doing the work, it passes the contract
[01:44:19] to a larger ineligible company,
[01:44:22] violating SBA rules and defrauding the
[01:44:25] government and defrauding you, the
[01:44:27] taxpayers. Isn't
[01:44:28] >> that exciting? Right. A lot of people
[01:44:30] don't know that.
[01:44:31] >> I don't think anybody knows that.
[01:44:33] And I'm
[01:44:33] >> want to keep it that way.
[01:44:34] >> That's right. That's a secret. You know
[01:44:37] what I mean?
[01:44:37] >> Exactly.
[01:44:38] >> Subcontracting out some of the
[01:44:40] development work isn't necessarily a
[01:44:42] crime. It was actually quite common.
[01:44:44] However, things appear to take a
[01:44:46] criminal turn when Melain Cromwell
[01:44:48] confesses to us that ATI, the prime
[01:44:52] contractor here, will often do as little
[01:44:54] as 20% of the actual software
[01:44:57] development work and offload 80% of the
[01:45:01] work to their subcontractors.
[01:45:03] >> I sit back, collect my percentage, and
[01:45:06] they do the work.
[01:45:07] >> Correct.
[01:45:08] >> Yeah. They're doing most of the work.
[01:45:09] The people you're subbing to do the
[01:45:11] majority of your ads.
[01:45:12] >> So we we do about 20% of the work.
[01:45:15] >> So ATI do 20% and those subcontractors
[01:45:18] do like 80% of the work.
[01:45:19] >> 80% of the work.
[01:45:21] >> You want to share that they do all the
[01:45:22] work?
[01:45:23] >> No.
[01:45:26] >> So we're here outside ATI Government
[01:45:28] Solutions. This is the building in
[01:45:30] Frederick, Maryland where I'm standing
[01:45:32] that ATI government solutions is housed
[01:45:35] out of. Now, according to the federal
[01:45:37] acquisition regulations, specifically
[01:45:39] the limitations of subcontracting clause
[01:45:42] F52.21914,
[01:45:45] the prime contractor in a government
[01:45:48] contract must do at least 51% of the
[01:45:51] work. This is more broadly referred to
[01:45:53] as the 51% rule. And this is what ATI
[01:45:56] government solutions appears to be
[01:45:59] violating. ATI has a special
[01:46:01] classification from the SBA that gives
[01:46:04] the company access to government
[01:46:05] contracts without competitive bidding.
[01:46:08] It's called an AA, a small business that
[01:46:11] is at least 51% owned by quote US
[01:46:15] citizens that are socially and
[01:46:17] economically disadvantaged. On paper,
[01:46:20] ATI is owned by the Susanville Indian
[01:46:23] Rancheria, a federally recognized Native
[01:46:25] American tribal entity in Northern
[01:46:27] California. So, does the Susanville
[01:46:29] Indian Rancheria actually own ATI? And
[01:46:33] what role, if any, do they actually hold
[01:46:35] besides appearing as 51% owners on
[01:46:39] paper?
[01:46:39] >> This is the web page for SFSI.
[01:46:42] ATI.
[01:46:44] >> Oh, ATI. I think I've heard of that.
[01:46:46] >> Yeah, that's our technology department.
[01:46:48] Well, in order to answer that question,
[01:46:50] we went undercover to meet with the head
[01:46:52] of the Susanville Indian Rancheria,
[01:46:55] Arian Hart, and discussed exactly how
[01:46:57] the business arrangement would work if
[01:46:59] we wanted them to appear to be the
[01:47:01] owners of our imaginary company to help
[01:47:03] us gain government contracts, much like
[01:47:06] ATI does.
[01:47:08] >> We just want to get government
[01:47:09] contracts. So, we need the Native
[01:47:12] Americans ownership to be able to obtain
[01:47:16] that. It makes it easier to get into the
[01:47:18] ADA
[01:47:20] contracting for sure. Yes.
[01:47:22] >> Aryan confirms that if they were to
[01:47:24] appear as the owners of our company, it
[01:47:26] would make it easier to obtain
[01:47:28] government contracts. Aryan goes on to
[01:47:30] claim that we may need to relinquish 51%
[01:47:33] of the ownership to them.
[01:47:35] >> So really, it's really just coming up
[01:47:38] with a number that you would want in
[01:47:40] order to appear to be the owner of my
[01:47:43] art company,
[01:47:45] >> right? And there
[01:47:47] and some of that is will be determined
[01:47:49] by the AAA corporation. So we may have
[01:47:52] to be like 51%
[01:47:55] owners, right?
[01:47:56] >> Meain Cromwell confirms that ATI is
[01:47:59] abiding by this 51% tribal ownership on
[01:48:03] paper.
[01:48:04] >> Was there some rules or something that
[01:48:05] you were telling me about like you have
[01:48:07] to report 51%
[01:48:09] >> 51 on paper? Correct.
[01:48:11] >> Right.
[01:48:12] >> But in reality,
[01:48:13] >> Right. Exactly. Exactly.
[01:48:15] >> Yep.
[01:48:16] >> As long as it's on paper.
[01:48:17] >> As long as it's on paper.
[01:48:18] >> 51%. We're good to go.
[01:48:20] >> ATI may be 51% tribally owned on paper,
[01:48:23] but Main revealed to us that ATI was
[01:48:26] founded in collaboration with the
[01:48:28] rancheria by two Caucasian DC
[01:48:31] executives, Fermage Crutchfield and
[01:48:34] Scott Deutschman, and that they manage
[01:48:37] all of ATI's operations. According to a
[01:48:40] 2024 article featured on Washington
[01:48:42] Technology, Fermage openly states,
[01:48:45] quote, "We met with Susanville Indian
[01:48:48] Rancheria and formed ATI under their 8A
[01:48:51] umbrella and we've never looked back."
[01:48:54] Firmage also states, quote, "We have
[01:48:56] been around tribal organizations most of
[01:48:58] our careers and they are very strong
[01:49:00] government contractors." So, you report
[01:49:02] to the CEO?
[01:49:03] >> I do.
[01:49:04] >> What is his name?
[01:49:05] >> Fermentage Crutchfield. He's the
[01:49:06] founder.
[01:49:07] >> He's the CEO
[01:49:08] >> of
[01:49:08] >> of ATRI.
[01:49:09] >> Have you met him?
[01:49:10] >> I have. Yeah, he's my boss.
[01:49:11] >> Now, is he is he a Native American
[01:49:13] gentleman or
[01:49:14] >> he's not? No. But not He was born and
[01:49:16] raised in Washington DC. Very much so.
[01:49:19] Yeah.
[01:49:19] >> What's the name again?
[01:49:20] >> Think
[01:49:22] his fiance.
[01:49:24] >> She looks super young.
[01:49:25] >> Oh my gosh, she's so Look, she's the
[01:49:28] >> She was an Olympic swimmer division one
[01:49:31] basketball, right? I said I never did
[01:49:33] anything in the Olympic.
[01:49:34] >> No way. So she says she's the fiance of
[01:49:38] her.
[01:49:39] >> Isn't that something? But of course, of
[01:49:41] course, during my interview, I'm talking
[01:49:43] to both of them.
[01:49:45] >> Neither is mentioning that to me. Of
[01:49:47] course,
[01:49:50] >> my first day at work. And she says,
[01:49:52] "Melena, you don't know this, but
[01:49:54] drummers and I are engaged." And I was
[01:49:56] like like, "Oh, congratulations." Right.
[01:50:00] >> But oh, you see that, right? CFO and
[01:50:04] CEO.
[01:50:04] >> That's that's nice work if you can get
[01:50:06] it.
[01:50:06] >> That is nice work.
[01:50:08] >> This is juicy gossip. I love it.
[01:50:11] >> This is not gossip.
[01:50:13] >> With Fermage Crutchfield as CEO, his
[01:50:15] fiance Olympic swimmer Marina Molva as
[01:50:19] CFO, and his business partner Scott
[01:50:21] Deutschman as CO, it becomes clear that
[01:50:24] the Susanville, Indiana Rancheria has
[01:50:26] almost no involvement in the actual
[01:50:29] operations of ATI. Aryan Hart then
[01:50:32] confirms to us that in the case of ATI
[01:50:34] they are sole proprietors and that
[01:50:36] anyone working for ATI works for the
[01:50:38] tribe acknowledging that quote we are
[01:50:41] the owner they do the work.
[01:50:43] >> Furvage Crutchfield he's our uh CEO for
[01:50:46] that company
[01:50:47] >> and so what what is your role with them?
[01:50:51] >> Uh the tribe itself.
[01:50:53] >> So we are the owner of that company
[01:50:55] right? We're the owner of all those ADA
[01:50:59] companies. We are the sole proprietor I
[01:51:01] guess right so the company does you know
[01:51:04] they go out get their contracts do the
[01:51:06] business develop that company go out and
[01:51:08] get jobs and work for the tribe
[01:51:11] >> but you don't do any of the work
[01:51:13] >> they do it
[01:51:14] >> they do the work yes
[01:51:16] >> the undercover journalist then proposes
[01:51:18] that we would like to make a similar
[01:51:20] arrangement with the tribe and Aryan
[01:51:22] reaffirms the tribe itself will not be
[01:51:24] doing any of the work they would
[01:51:26] literally be taking 51% of the company
[01:51:29] for the sole purpose of allowing us to
[01:51:32] pose as Native Americanowned because it
[01:51:34] puts you to the front of the line for
[01:51:36] acquiring those government contracts.
[01:51:39] >> We would do the work and then you get a
[01:51:42] percentage of the profits,
[01:51:44] >> right?
[01:51:46] >> Yeah.
[01:51:46] >> We have the ability to get the contracts
[01:51:49] and that's probably the most important
[01:51:51] thing. On the surface, this sounds like
[01:51:53] a well-meaning endeavor by the federal
[01:51:55] government to bolster minority
[01:51:57] involvement in profitable industries
[01:51:58] like construction and software
[01:52:00] development. However, as you see here,
[01:52:02] it incentivizes a system which companies
[01:52:04] have to seek out a Native American tribe
[01:52:06] deposes 51% owners in order to obtain a
[01:52:09] sufficient amount of government
[01:52:11] contracts, surrendering 51% of the
[01:52:13] profits to a Native American tribe that
[01:52:16] does 0% of the work, effectively
[01:52:19] doubling the cost of the contract. the
[01:52:21] American taxpayer and having the
[01:52:23] financial compensation for the person
[01:52:25] doing the actual labor. Just this past
[01:52:27] May, in the case of Cusissus versus US,
[01:52:30] Stamatios Cusus and Alpha Painting and
[01:52:33] Construction Company secured
[01:52:35] Pennsylvania Department of
[01:52:36] Transportation contracts despite a
[01:52:38] satisfactory contract performance. They
[01:52:40] had deceived the government and their
[01:52:42] compliance with the disadvantaged
[01:52:44] business enterprise and were therefore
[01:52:45] convicted of wire fraud and conspiracy
[01:52:48] for fraudulent inducement. The Supreme
[01:52:50] Court in an opinion by Justice Amy Coney
[01:52:53] Barrett clarified that the wire fraud
[01:52:55] statute focuses on a scheme to obtain
[01:52:57] money or property through deception.
[01:53:00] Justice Sotomayor's concurrence likened
[01:53:02] it to a fan deceived into buying Mets
[01:53:04] tickets when promised Yankees tickets,
[01:53:07] emphasizing deception over loss. As
[01:53:10] unsettling as all this sounds, there's
[01:53:12] actually another layer. According to
[01:53:14] usaspending.gov, Go. ATI has
[01:53:16] exponentially grown their profits over
[01:53:18] the last 6 years from about $2 million
[01:53:21] in 2019 to a h 100red million this year.
[01:53:24] According to the SBA or Small Business
[01:53:26] Administration regulations, if an 8A
[01:53:29] company exceeds a personal net worth of
[01:53:31] 850,000, an adjusted gross income of
[01:53:34] 400,000 or assets totaling 6.5 million,
[01:53:37] then the SBA no longer considers it a
[01:53:39] small business.
[01:53:40] explained that that's when Crutchfield
[01:53:42] found a new quote small business and
[01:53:45] starts the process all over again.
[01:53:48] >> Firmage has been very smart in that he
[01:53:51] never exceeds the small business
[01:53:53] threshold, right? So once he hits gets
[01:53:56] close to the threshold, he starts
[01:53:57] another company.
[01:53:58] >> They give you so many years to make so
[01:54:00] much money to do so good. Then once you
[01:54:03] get to that point, they stop. Then you
[01:54:05] have to develop another corporation and
[01:54:07] get that one going, right? So you kind
[01:54:09] of always before one ends you start
[01:54:11] another one to get keep on going. So you
[01:54:13] just change the name, start a new
[01:54:15] company and then you're back into the
[01:54:16] system.
[01:54:17] >> We met up with Melain a second and third
[01:54:20] time eventually revealed that we were
[01:54:22] undercover journalists doing a story on
[01:54:24] the potential corruption throughout
[01:54:26] ATI's operations. So we have some news
[01:54:29] for you here. Okay. We're actually
[01:54:31] investigative reporters. My name is
[01:54:33] James O'Keefe. I'm an invest
[01:54:36] >> I'm an investigative reporter. And you
[01:54:38] you're on about
[01:54:40] >> Okay, we can we can but but
[01:54:44] >> and it's important to note that Meline
[01:54:46] Cromwell, director of contracts,
[01:54:48] repeatedly stated that everything we
[01:54:50] secretly recorded her saying was just
[01:54:52] her opinion. She reiterated that many
[01:54:55] times after I took off my wig and
[01:54:57] identified myself as an investigative
[01:54:59] reporter. will be releasing that
[01:55:01] interaction with Meline along with part
[01:55:03] two of this story featuring another
[01:55:07] employee at ATI later this week. Stay
[01:55:11] tuned for that.
[01:55:12] >> Here's to here's to passroughs.
[01:55:15] >> There you go.
[01:55:16] >> How about that?
[01:55:16] >> Yeah, exactly.
[01:55:18] >> Exactly.
[01:55:20] >> In in Veritas
[01:55:24] party like a Jim Keith party.
[01:55:27] >> Oh my gosh. I can't believe that. I
[01:55:30] can't believe that. This is
[01:55:32] >> This is unbelievable. She said 20%. They
[01:55:35] only do 20% of the work.
[01:55:36] >> I heard that part. I was like boom. Got
[01:55:37] it.
[01:55:37] >> She said don't tell anybody.
[01:55:38] >> Yeah.
[01:55:39] >> 50 only on paper. She said only on
[01:55:41] paper.
[01:55:41] >> Only oning.
[01:55:43] >> Only on paper. She said passroughs. She
[01:55:45] said but we don't want that to leave
[01:55:46] this. She says loopholes passroughs. We
[01:55:49] only do 20% of the work.
[01:55:51] >> I mean this is this is unbelievable. We
[01:55:54] got the story, man.
[01:55:56] [Music]
[01:55:59] I'm very proud of my team. This story
[01:56:02] took us about six months to do and I
[01:56:05] hear your comments that nothing ever
[01:56:07] happens to these people, that nothing
[01:56:10] will come of this. Nobody will be
[01:56:11] arrested. I hear you loud and clear. And
[01:56:14] let me say that I am on your side. But
[01:56:17] this is kind of unprecedented here. This
[01:56:19] is a lot of bureaucracy. these fact
[01:56:21] patterns about 8A and super 8A and
[01:56:24] government subcontractors and 51% rules.
[01:56:27] It gets complicated real fast and people
[01:56:30] lose interest real fast. But what isn't
[01:56:32] complicated is this individual
[01:56:35] encouraging people to stay quiet about
[01:56:38] breaking the law, saying she does not
[01:56:41] want the public to know that they're
[01:56:43] taking advantage of you and fleecing the
[01:56:45] taxpayer. So we have now done our job.
[01:56:48] We have caught people on tape with
[01:56:51] indisputable, incontrovertible
[01:56:53] videotaped evidence of fraud and
[01:56:57] corruption within the federal
[01:56:59] government. The sort of stuff that Doge
[01:57:02] talks about. And if this reporting, if
[01:57:04] this truth, if this videotape doesn't
[01:57:08] actually lead to our Department of
[01:57:10] Justice arresting people or holding
[01:57:14] anybody to account, then it's gotten to
[01:57:16] the point where we now have to
[01:57:18] investigate the Department of Justice
[01:57:21] itself. So, we're calling on the people
[01:57:23] inside the Department of Justice to do
[01:57:26] the right thing. We actually have
[01:57:28] confidence and optimism that this report
[01:57:31] will actually lead to the results and
[01:57:33] the accountability that all of you so
[01:57:35] desperately seek. And stay tuned for
[01:57:38] part two because we are just getting
[01:57:41] started. If you've enjoyed this type of
[01:57:43] reporting, one-of-a-kind, fearless,
[01:57:46] impartial, independent, nonprofit
[01:57:49] journalism, which doesn't favor a
[01:57:51] commercial imperative over the pursuit
[01:57:53] of truth that takes six months to do and
[01:57:55] an army of investigators, fact checkers,
[01:57:58] researchers, costume designers,
[01:58:01] attorneys. Well, if you support this and
[01:58:03] you want to continue to support this,
[01:58:04] please consider a donation to Citizen
[01:58:07] Journalism Foundation. Citizen
[01:58:10] Journalism Foundation O'Keeke
[01:58:12] Media.com/donate
[01:58:15] where you'll find taxdeductible giving
[01:58:17] instructions to our 51c3 and we look
[01:58:20] forward to seeing you at the Citizen
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