Untitled Document

[00:00:00] This is all this war is only now about [00:00:02] Putin's personal survival. Um he he [00:00:05] needs the war to stay in power and he [00:00:08] needs to stay in power to stay alive. [00:00:11] And so um this is not not I mean the [00:00:14] destruction of Russia is is [00:00:17] unparalleled. um you know to to lose so [00:00:20] many soldiers, to lose this much money, [00:00:22] and at the same time if if if one were [00:00:25] to believe his his rhetoric, the reason [00:00:27] he went to war was to stop the [00:00:30] advancement of uh encroachment of of [00:00:32] NATO around Russia. And in in the time [00:00:35] that this war has been going on, um [00:00:37] Finland and Sweden have joined NATO and [00:00:39] and Finland has an enormous border with [00:00:42] Russia. And so I mean the whole thing is [00:00:44] is wrong in every perspective from from [00:00:47] the Russian strategic interest. They're [00:00:48] they're losing money. They're losing [00:00:50] they've lost all their western markets [00:00:52] for their natural gas. Um uh the number [00:00:55] of visas being issued in Shenan has [00:00:57] dropped by 95%. They can't travel [00:00:59] easily. They they um they've lost 1.2 or [00:01:02] 1.3 million men. As you said, another [00:01:04] million men have left the country. Um [00:01:06] it's it's a terrible terrible situation [00:01:09] uh in all respects uh for for Putin, for [00:01:13] Russia, for the people, but um uh he [00:01:16] needs this war and he's not going to [00:01:17] give up. And there's it's it might be [00:01:19] high time in any other circumstance to [00:01:20] to stop it, but he can't. And and and [00:01:23] furthermore, um if he were to stop it, [00:01:26] then you have these million soldiers [00:01:28] that are currently there, the one the [00:01:30] rapists, the um the torturers, the um [00:01:33] psychopaths that are all going to come [00:01:35] back to Russia and wreak havoc on [00:01:37] Russia. He can't have that. [00:01:39] >> Welcome to our program, Sir William [00:01:41] Broader. [00:01:41] >> Great to be here. [00:01:43] >> It's great pleasure to speak with you in [00:01:45] Munich. And I would like to begin our [00:01:47] conversation with your highlights from [00:01:49] the Munich Security Conference. What is [00:01:52] your assessment uh of uh Ukraine's [00:01:55] future discussions around Ukraine and [00:01:58] also Marco Rubio's speech? [00:02:01] >> Well, I I mean I think that that this is [00:02:03] a a a gathering where um it's I would [00:02:07] say self- selected supporters of [00:02:09] Ukraine. Um you don't have uh that the [00:02:12] enemies of Ukraine aren't here. Russia [00:02:14] is obviously not here. Um and you don't [00:02:17] there's not a lot of Indians or Chinese [00:02:19] or South Africans here running around. [00:02:22] Um this this is the you know sort of um [00:02:25] transatlantic alliance. Even the [00:02:27] Americans um if the ones who are not [00:02:30] part of the administration are all all [00:02:32] members of Congress, Republicans and [00:02:33] Democrats are all supporters of Ukraine. [00:02:35] And so I mean it's kind of a pleasure to [00:02:36] be here as a as a strong advocate for [00:02:39] Ukraine and and for Ukrainian victory. [00:02:42] Um, I always feel sort of among [00:02:45] like-minded people. Um, and I was happy [00:02:47] that Marco Rubio, um, came here with a [00:02:50] more consiliatory message than last year [00:02:52] when JD Vance was here. Um, not [00:02:55] criticizing Russia, but criticizing [00:02:57] Europeans, which didn't make any sense [00:02:59] to me. Let's cover the most uh important [00:03:02] topic probably in Ukraine, the state of [00:03:06] US-led negotiations to end the war. And [00:03:09] also I would like to begin with [00:03:10] interesting quote from one of the [00:03:12] interviews uh Mar Rubio with Western [00:03:15] media here in Munich. Quote, I don't [00:03:18] think anyone is winning. Russians are [00:03:21] losing seven or 8,000 soldiers a week. [00:03:24] Ukraine has suffered extraordinary [00:03:26] damage, including overnight attacks on [00:03:28] energy infrastructure. It's a senseless [00:03:32] war. What is your reaction to this? Um [00:03:35] well, I think his his um sort of factual [00:03:38] assessment is is correct. It's um uh [00:03:41] Russia is it's I mean it's they're sort [00:03:43] of uh committing mass suicide um for no [00:03:47] great um uh land gains. They're not [00:03:52] they're not gaining any territory and [00:03:53] they're losing these soldiers in in this [00:03:56] crazy way. And and of course he's also [00:03:58] correct that that um uh since Russia is [00:04:01] not making any progress on the [00:04:02] battlefield, they're trying to terrorize [00:04:03] the citizens of Ukraine by um freezing [00:04:07] everybody in their apartments. Um but [00:04:10] what um uh what what he's I think [00:04:13] incorrect about is that um uh there's [00:04:17] nothing senseless about Ukraine [00:04:18] defending themselves. It's senseless for [00:04:20] Russia to be attacking, for Russia to be [00:04:25] um trying to redefine their territorial [00:04:29] um situation. And so it's not a [00:04:31] senseless war, it's a senseless [00:04:33] aggression by Russia uh attacking [00:04:35] Ukraine. And and so I wish that uh he [00:04:38] would take step out of this sort of fake [00:04:42] neutral position and say, you know, say [00:04:44] what's really true, which is that it's a [00:04:46] senseless war of aggression organized by [00:04:50] Vladimir Putin against the victim [00:04:51] Ukraine. [00:04:53] >> Mark Rubio also says that he doesn't [00:04:55] know whether Russians are ready to [00:04:57] settle this war in meaningful way. How [00:05:01] close are we to a deal? [00:05:03] Well, um I I I Vladimir Putin um is a [00:05:08] historic liar. He lies about everything. [00:05:11] He lies in every statement he makes [00:05:14] pretty much. But there's one place where [00:05:16] he's remarkably honest and that is in [00:05:18] his intentions with Ukraine. He's never [00:05:21] deviated for one minute on what he [00:05:24] thinks about Ukraine. In his mind, um [00:05:28] Ukraine shouldn't exist as a sovereign [00:05:30] state. It shouldn't exist as an [00:05:31] independent country. it shouldn't exist [00:05:33] as an independent culture. He wants to [00:05:35] eradicate Ukraine and he's not deviated [00:05:38] from that and um uh he's not um planning [00:05:42] on deviating from that. And so I I I [00:05:45] find it strange that that anyone has any [00:05:48] optimism about these peace talks because [00:05:50] even if um he were to achieve everything [00:05:53] that in in um the 28 point peace plan [00:05:57] which was put together by Carol Demetriv [00:06:00] or the 20point peace plan that was put [00:06:03] together by Carol Demitriv um uh I don't [00:06:07] think Putin would want that. um he he [00:06:08] wants a total and absolute victory and [00:06:10] that's why he's ready to sacrifice a a [00:06:12] thousand soldiers a day. He he's [00:06:14] thinking that he's just going to wear [00:06:16] everyone out and um uh he doesn't want [00:06:18] to negotiate or compromise. He just [00:06:21] wants victory. And so I'm not sure what [00:06:23] this all these meetings are all about. [00:06:25] I'm not sure who's given any authority [00:06:27] to anybody to negotiate anything. Um, I [00:06:30] think it's all um I think it actually [00:06:32] what what I really think it is is just a [00:06:34] way of of Putin um creating the [00:06:37] appearance of a peace negotiation so [00:06:40] that he can carry on fighting his war [00:06:42] and that um uh and he can avoid [00:06:46] sanctions because he can say to Trump, [00:06:47] how can you upset these delicate [00:06:50] negotiations when when we have a peace [00:06:52] negotiations going on? You can't [00:06:54] sanction me. I think that's that's his [00:06:56] main intention. Do you think also that [00:06:59] uh these are also the reasons behind [00:07:02] Putin's so-called uh so-called halt in [00:07:05] strikes against Ukrainian energy [00:07:07] infrastructure? Was this a negotiation [00:07:10] tactics Putin's mind games with Trump? [00:07:13] >> Well, so so Trump asked him to stop um [00:07:16] you know bombing heating plants and [00:07:18] electricity and I think for three days [00:07:20] he stopped and then he had he promised [00:07:23] he was going to stop for a week and [00:07:24] after three days he couldn't contra [00:07:25] himself and kept on bombing them. So, I [00:07:28] mean, it's all very disrespectful to [00:07:30] Trump and it's um and it's certainly um [00:07:32] hugely detrimental to Ukraine and and it [00:07:35] shows he's not serious about peace. [00:07:38] >> Don't you think that President Trump is [00:07:41] and his team, they are just over optim [00:07:43] over over optimistic about this? [00:07:46] >> Well, who knows what they're really [00:07:47] thinking? What what what I see is just a [00:07:49] an unrealistic negotiation that's not [00:07:52] going to lead to anything. I see um [00:07:55] Putin uh using this as a tactic, as sort [00:07:59] of a stalling tactic so he can carry on [00:08:01] doing what he wants to do. And um I I [00:08:04] don't know what the Trump people think, [00:08:05] but it's it's very disrespectful um if [00:08:08] if they're genuine about their desire [00:08:10] for peace, and it's very disrespectful [00:08:11] to to the Americans that um Putin is not [00:08:15] offering peace. [00:08:17] Can Vladimir Putin propose Trump any [00:08:19] kind of limited energy ceasefire after [00:08:22] the winter ends when Ukraine will not [00:08:25] longer need this just to buy more time [00:08:28] and to appease President Trump? [00:08:31] >> Well, surely um uh Putin will will will [00:08:34] offer all sorts of tricks and [00:08:35] dishonesties along the way to keep his [00:08:38] ability to um wear Ukraine down. Um, I [00:08:43] mean, what's what's so remarkable about [00:08:45] this is that uh I believe that the total [00:08:47] losses in in um the Soviet Union's [00:08:50] invasion of Afghanistan over a 10-year [00:08:53] period were like 16,000 soldiers. And [00:08:55] here you're losing that many soldiers in [00:08:57] two weeks. And um and that the Russian [00:08:59] society is not saying anything about it. [00:09:01] And that that's what I find so [00:09:03] remarkable because in any other country [00:09:05] in any other place where there's any any [00:09:09] type of democracy at all um that those [00:09:11] types of losses would be unacceptable to [00:09:13] the entire country. [00:09:14] >> Moreover, Russia's war against Ukraine [00:09:17] has now lasted longer than Soviet [00:09:19] Union's war against the Nazi Germany [00:09:21] during the Second World War. Russians [00:09:24] have already lost 1.2 two or even 1.3 [00:09:29] million soldiers on the ground. [00:09:31] Meanwhile, uh Russian oil prices have [00:09:34] fallen to their lowest levels since the [00:09:36] pandemic. Uh for how long can they [00:09:39] sustain this? And don't you think that [00:09:42] right now this would be high time for [00:09:44] Putin to to seek endame? Well, Putin is [00:09:47] not going to seek an endgame for one [00:09:49] simple reason that um he needs a war. He [00:09:52] needs a foreign enemy so that people [00:09:54] don't get mad at him inside of Russia. [00:09:57] And so from my perspective, this is this [00:10:00] is all this war is only now about [00:10:02] Putin's personal survival. Um he he [00:10:05] needs the war to stay in power and he [00:10:08] needs to stay in power to stay alive. [00:10:11] And so um this is not not I mean the [00:10:14] destruction of Russia is is [00:10:17] unparalleled. um you know to to lose so [00:10:20] many soldiers, to lose this much money, [00:10:22] and at the same time if if if one were [00:10:25] to believe his his rhetoric, the reason [00:10:27] he went to war was to stop the [00:10:29] advancement of uh encroachment of of [00:10:32] NATO around Russia. And in in the time [00:10:34] that this war has been going on, um [00:10:37] Finland and Sweden have joined NATO and [00:10:39] and Finland has an enormous border with [00:10:42] Russia. And so I mean the whole thing is [00:10:44] is wrong in every perspective from from [00:10:46] the Russian strategic interest. They're [00:10:48] they're losing money. They're losing [00:10:50] they've lost all their western markets [00:10:52] for their natural gas. Um uh the number [00:10:55] of visas being issued in Shenan has [00:10:57] dropped by 95%. They can't travel [00:10:59] easily. They they um they've lost 1.2 [00:11:02] 1.3 million men. As you said, another [00:11:04] million men have left the country. Um [00:11:06] it's it's a terrible terrible situation [00:11:09] uh in all respects uh for for Putin, for [00:11:13] Russia, for the people, but um uh he [00:11:15] needs this war and he's not going to [00:11:17] give up. And there's it's it might be [00:11:18] high time in any other circumstance to [00:11:20] to stop it, but he can't. And and and [00:11:23] furthermore, um if he were to stop it, [00:11:26] then you have these million soldiers [00:11:28] that are currently there, the one the [00:11:30] rapists, the um the torturers, the um [00:11:33] psychopaths that are all going to come [00:11:35] back to Russia and wreak havoc on [00:11:37] Russia. He can't have that. [00:11:39] >> I also have heard interesting assessment [00:11:42] from one of Russian opposition leaders [00:11:45] in Axel abroad that Vladimir Putin knows [00:11:49] what he can do. However, he doesn't know [00:11:52] what he can do. [00:11:57] >> What is your assessment of this? And can [00:11:59] he end the war without losing power? Is [00:12:01] this the main reason why he still uh [00:12:04] moves forward? [00:12:05] >> There's no there's no way for him to end [00:12:07] the war. He he has to have this war. It [00:12:09] has to carry on. And for some reason, if [00:12:11] he were to succeed in Ukraine, if he [00:12:12] were to take over Ukraine, then he would [00:12:14] move on Poland or Estonia or Lithuania [00:12:18] or Latafia. He needs a war and he'll [00:12:20] carry on with the war. It doesn't matter [00:12:21] how much destruction there is to his [00:12:23] country, he he has to have this war. [00:12:25] >> But don't you think that as time moves [00:12:28] on, as this war moves on, because we are [00:12:31] nearing fourth anniversary of this [00:12:32] brutal war, it at some point it could be [00:12:36] too much for Russian economy. They can [00:12:38] face just breaking point [00:12:41] >> possibly. Um but but I I can also [00:12:43] imagine a scenario a North Korea type of [00:12:45] scenario where where Putin allocates all [00:12:47] of his uh economic resources towards the [00:12:50] military and and the people starve [00:12:52] inside Russia. He's ready to do that. [00:12:54] He's this war is so important to him. [00:12:57] Now there this doesn't mean that it's [00:12:58] inevitable that the war carries on into [00:13:00] perpetuity from the Ukrainian [00:13:02] perspective. Um, Ukraine is doing a [00:13:04] fabulous job of holding the the Russians [00:13:07] back. And the West, if the West really [00:13:09] wanted to, if the Europeans and UK [00:13:12] really wanted to, they could stop this [00:13:14] war by basically stopping the sale of [00:13:18] Russian oil abroad. If Russia couldn't [00:13:21] sell its oil abroad, they wouldn't have [00:13:23] that money, which is hundreds of [00:13:25] billions of dollars, and Putin wouldn't [00:13:26] be able to then spend all this money on [00:13:28] soldiers and ammunition and so on. And [00:13:32] so one of my big projects here at the [00:13:33] Munich Security Conference has been to [00:13:36] pitch a very simple idea which is to for [00:13:39] the West, for the Europeans, the British [00:13:42] and so on. Um to impose sanctions on [00:13:45] eight oil refineries that buy all the [00:13:47] Russian oil. Two of those refineries are [00:13:50] in China, four of them are in India and [00:13:52] two of them are in Turkey. And if those [00:13:55] sanctions were imposed on those royal [00:13:56] those oil refineries to say that and I [00:13:59] would I put it more as ultimatums on [00:14:00] those oil refineries to say you've got [00:14:02] to stop buying Russian oil otherwise you [00:14:04] can't do business with us. [00:14:07] I think that they would stop buying [00:14:08] Russian oil. If they stopped buying [00:14:10] Russian oil Putin would have to lower [00:14:13] the price of of his oil to pirate buyers [00:14:17] at $10 a barrel. And I think in six [00:14:19] months time he would just be unable [00:14:22] economically to carry on with the war [00:14:24] because he just wouldn't have the money. [00:14:26] >> That's interesting idea. And also um [00:14:29] however President Trump has has just [00:14:32] announced uh only sanctions this against [00:14:36] Russian and Luke oil but do you see this [00:14:39] wouldn't be enough to change the game? [00:14:41] not rising up and luke oil, but if if if [00:14:44] uh if United States or European Union [00:14:46] went after the buyers of the oil, um [00:14:49] that would change the game. And that's [00:14:50] that and Putin is more afraid of that [00:14:52] than anything else. That that's that's [00:14:54] the simple answer. He understands that [00:14:56] that is uh that's his um you know, sort [00:14:59] of uh Achilles heel. That that that's [00:15:02] where he he completely falls apart. [00:15:04] >> President Zilinski recently said, quote, [00:15:07] "I'm younger than Vladimir Putin. That's [00:15:10] why I have like more cards, more uh [00:15:13] leverage. What is your assessment in [00:15:16] reaction to this? [00:15:18] >> Well, I think that the most important [00:15:19] thing is it's psychological warfare. Um [00:15:22] uh you know, Putin uh uh there's one [00:15:26] thing that Putin can't stand more than [00:15:28] anything, which is disrespect. Because [00:15:30] if if one person disrespects him um then [00:15:33] other people can disrespect him. And and [00:15:36] so this is the ultimate disrespect. Um [00:15:39] calling him an old man, calling him [00:15:41] weak. Um uh and and I think that that [00:15:44] that that has very you know that there [00:15:46] it's as a powerful uh as a powerful tool [00:15:49] and he should you know not just military [00:15:51] uh war but psychological war is [00:15:54] important. Do you feel that Vimmer Putin [00:15:57] is also afraid about losing power [00:15:59] because he can lose his life as Russians [00:16:02] could be unsatisfied? Not really [00:16:04] satisfied about the result of this [00:16:07] bloody campaign. [00:16:08] >> I'm I'm sure of that. I think I think [00:16:10] that um uh there's no um dignified exit [00:16:15] for a ruthless dictator. The only exit [00:16:18] is um uh either assassination or [00:16:22] imprisonment. And he understands that. [00:16:24] And so he's desperately holding on to [00:16:26] power and desperately using whatever [00:16:28] tools including war to hold on to power. [00:16:30] >> Let's also cover Vladimir Putin's inner [00:16:34] circle. There has been interesting [00:16:36] article about Mitri Kak former Putin's [00:16:39] advisor and New York Times wrote quote [00:16:42] that Kazak uh [00:16:45] reportedly was opposing Russia's war in [00:16:48] Ukraine and advised Putin against [00:16:51] launching this war and advised Putin to [00:16:54] to hold this war after the several [00:16:56] months u after 2022 this war began. What [00:17:00] is your take on that? And do you feel [00:17:04] that there could be even more people [00:17:05] around Putin advising him to stop? [00:17:09] >> No, I think that I think that he may [00:17:11] have um I think that that this whole [00:17:12] thing has been exaggerated. Uh Putin [00:17:15] doesn't doesn't um allow any kind of um [00:17:18] uh disputes about his policy. He doesn't [00:17:21] he doesn't uh there there is no uh frank [00:17:24] arguments and and and so on because if [00:17:27] there was then then the whole thing the [00:17:29] whole edifice would fall down. I I I [00:17:31] believe that everybody is just you know [00:17:33] saluting him uh and saying yes sir how [00:17:37] can I help you sir what do you need sir [00:17:40] etc. There's no there's no uh frank [00:17:43] discussions, debates, um you know, any [00:17:46] of that kind of uh fractious stuff that [00:17:48] happens in democracies. That doesn't [00:17:49] happen in Vladimir Putin's world. [00:17:51] >> Is he a aware of real situation on the [00:17:55] ground in Ukraine and around the globe [00:17:58] strategically? [00:17:59] >> Yeah, he he's aware of everything. He's [00:18:00] he's a very um he's an intelligence [00:18:02] officer and and um as evil as he is, [00:18:05] he's very he is a very intelligent [00:18:07] intelligence officer. He's surely aware [00:18:09] of the losses that they're experiencing. [00:18:11] If we know about the losses, he's he's [00:18:13] no idiot. He can he can get that [00:18:14] information. Um and he's also aware of [00:18:17] the economic losses, but he's trying to [00:18:18] put on a brave face because he believes [00:18:20] that that um you know, as a in a [00:18:23] dictatorship, um it's not going to lead [00:18:25] to his losing his power. And he thinks [00:18:28] that that um we in the west are going to [00:18:31] lose our stomach for this sooner than he [00:18:34] he he's going to lose his stomach for [00:18:36] this because he has an un unlimited [00:18:38] amount of pain that he can experience. [00:18:40] We experience just like 1/100th of pain [00:18:42] and we're all ready to give up. He can [00:18:44] he can carry on with so many deaths, so [00:18:47] much economic cost because for him it [00:18:51] doesn't lead to him losing power. And [00:18:54] most final question for you regarding [00:18:56] Russia's position abroad. Putin's regime [00:18:59] has lost Syria and also Venezuelan [00:19:01] dictator Nicholas Madura was captured by [00:19:04] US special forces. Several Russian oil [00:19:07] tankers have been sized by US Navy. [00:19:10] Don't you think that Putin's decision to [00:19:13] launch war against Ukraine has made [00:19:15] Russia weaker abroad? [00:19:17] >> There's no question. Um, so they've lost [00:19:20] Syria, they've lost Venezuela, they've [00:19:21] also lost um as uh Armenia. Um, Nagorno [00:19:26] Carabach. Um, they made efforts to try [00:19:29] to try to flip the situation in Muldova [00:19:32] didn't work. Um, their efforts in [00:19:34] Romania were a failure. Um, this has [00:19:37] been just absolutely a humiliation at [00:19:40] all at every step of the way for Putin [00:19:42] in a certain way. the world that he [00:19:44] wanted to create, this world of of might [00:19:46] might makes right, has turned out to be [00:19:50] really a bad world for Vladimir Putin. [00:19:51] Uh it shows him to be as weak as he [00:19:54] really is. [00:19:55] >> And most final one, your message, I I [00:19:58] know it's wouldn't be possible because [00:20:00] you're also enemy of Russian dictator [00:20:03] Putin. However, if you were sitting in [00:20:06] front of Putin, what would you say to [00:20:08] him? I [00:20:09] >> I have no interest in ever sitting in [00:20:11] front of Putin. I mean, I've got nothing [00:20:12] to say to him. He's he's um you know he [00:20:15] needs to be locked up uh in in the [00:20:19] international criminal court in the H [00:20:21] for crimes against humanity. [00:20:24] >> Thank you sir William for your time and [00:20:26] insightful answers and uh glory to [00:20:28] Ukraine. [00:20:29] >> Glory to Ukraine.