📄 Extracted Text (11,179 words)
[00:00:03] [Music]
[00:00:08] Hello, hello everyone. Welcome back to
[00:00:10] another edition of our Mintcast podcast.
[00:00:13] Um, today I am joined by two really
[00:00:17] amazing guests. Ahmed is a journalist
[00:00:20] and a and the CEO of African Stream.
[00:00:23] It's this revolutionary and incredible
[00:00:27] media company that has been covering
[00:00:30] Africa's rise and its resistance to US
[00:00:33] imperialism. And recently, African
[00:00:36] Stream and Ahmed himself have been
[00:00:38] caught in the crosshairs of the US State
[00:00:41] Department because of its success. Um
[00:00:44] they have been the target of um Anthony
[00:00:48] Blinken himself. He released statements
[00:00:51] to target and work with uh big tech to
[00:00:53] shut down African stream. And so today
[00:00:56] I'm really excited to be joined by Ahmed
[00:00:58] Kabalo. He's a journalist and editor um
[00:01:01] director of media or African stream
[00:01:03] who's done an incredible job uh with
[00:01:06] this uh media project. So Ahmed, thank
[00:01:09] you so much for joining us today.
[00:01:12] >> Thank you for having me and I'm a big
[00:01:14] fan of Mint Press and been following for
[00:01:16] many years. So great great honor to be
[00:01:19] on the show.
[00:01:19] >> We appreciate that support. And of
[00:01:21] course I am joined also by Alan Mloud.
[00:01:24] He is our senior staff writer here at
[00:01:26] Mint Press. One of the most important
[00:01:28] journalists I would say uh within the
[00:01:31] independent media uh industry uh
[00:01:34] uncovering the paper trails of the uh 1%
[00:01:40] war machine. So today we're going to be
[00:01:44] looking at Africa rising and the attacks
[00:01:49] that Ahmed and African Stream have faced
[00:01:51] themselves. So um before we get started,
[00:01:54] I'm actually going to play this clip by
[00:01:56] Anthony Blinken and we're going to hear
[00:01:58] what he had to say when he um targeted
[00:02:01] African Stream.
[00:02:03] >> RT also secretly runs the online
[00:02:05] platform African Stream across a wide
[00:02:08] range of social media platforms.
[00:02:11] Now, according to the outlet's website,
[00:02:13] African Stream is, and I quote, a
[00:02:15] pan-African digital media organization
[00:02:18] based exclusively on social media
[00:02:19] platforms focusing on giving a voice to
[00:02:22] all Africans both at home and abroad.
[00:02:25] In reality, the only voice it gives is
[00:02:29] to Kremlin propagandists.
[00:02:31] >> All right, so there you have it. We just
[00:02:33] heard from Anthony Blinkin himself
[00:02:34] calling African Stream a project of RT
[00:02:38] and a mouthpiece for Kremlin propaganda.
[00:02:41] So Ahmed um obviously I'm sure it's been
[00:02:45] a difficult uh past month or so with the
[00:02:48] news that African Stream was shut down
[00:02:51] and targeted by big tech um at the
[00:02:54] behest of the State Department and
[00:02:56] Anthony Blinken himself. I mean, we
[00:02:58] could say that's a huge badge of honor
[00:03:00] when you're US, you know, an
[00:03:01] anti-imperialist
[00:03:03] running a media organization being
[00:03:05] targeted by the State Department, but
[00:03:06] I'm sure this was not easy um for you as
[00:03:10] someone who has built such an incredible
[00:03:13] platform covering Africa Rising. What do
[00:03:16] you make of um this attack against
[00:03:21] African Stream and this accusation that
[00:03:24] it is Kremlin propaganda?
[00:03:29] I mean, the latter accusation that we're
[00:03:32] criminal propagandists, it's insulting,
[00:03:36] not really so much to us, but to African
[00:03:40] people, the idea that if you're against
[00:03:44] imperialism,
[00:03:45] it's not because you've analyzed the
[00:03:47] conditions that you're in, not because
[00:03:50] you understand the relationship of neoc
[00:03:52] colonialism within the African context,
[00:03:55] that our economies are not owned by us.
[00:03:58] The um 14 African countries use the CFA
[00:04:02] Frank which keeps its reserves in in uh
[00:04:06] the Bank of France which controls the
[00:04:09] economy of those countries and the other
[00:04:11] countries in the African continent are
[00:04:14] are basically
[00:04:18] hostage to the US dollar. they have to
[00:04:21] export things that they just so they can
[00:04:24] receive US dollars and if they don't
[00:04:27] their current their currency is devalued
[00:04:30] um and their whole econom economy
[00:04:32] collapses. So if you analyze these these
[00:04:34] situations and you think well there's
[00:04:36] something wrong with this we're meant to
[00:04:38] have got our independence in 1958 1957
[00:04:41] 1960 1961 and so on. Um but yet we our
[00:04:45] country's economies are not controlled
[00:04:47] by us. uh the people that win elections
[00:04:50] are the people that campaigns are best
[00:04:53] funded and those are usually that have
[00:04:55] connections to western capital. If you
[00:04:58] analyze these conditions and you say
[00:04:59] there's something wrong with this, then
[00:05:01] it's not because you're intelligent
[00:05:03] enough to understand what's going on
[00:05:05] within your own context. It's because
[00:05:06] you're influenced by Russians. And this
[00:05:09] is something a trick that has been
[00:05:11] played time and time again in within our
[00:05:14] continent. They called Patrice Lamba.
[00:05:17] They called him the African Castra.
[00:05:20] They said Thomas Sankara was a Russian
[00:05:22] agent. They said Krummer was a Russian
[00:05:24] agent before they deposed him. Uh Ahmed
[00:05:27] Se to uh the list goes on and on and on.
[00:05:31] Nelson Mandela. Um now in the
[00:05:34] contemporary sense they say about Julius
[00:05:36] Manma, they say about Ibrahim Chi, they
[00:05:39] say about Goa and Abdman Tani and Nijer.
[00:05:44] Uh, no. If if you just say if you're the
[00:05:47] president of Nigeria and you say it's
[00:05:49] not right that we export uranium but
[00:05:52] most of our country is in darkness. If
[00:05:55] you say that, that's not your own
[00:05:57] analysis. That's Russian propaganda. Um,
[00:06:00] so we're not insulted because you know
[00:06:03] we're in very rich company. Uh but it is
[00:06:06] insulting to African people and as an
[00:06:08] African I'm insulted not so much um as
[00:06:12] African stream.
[00:06:16] >> Yeah, it's it's it's it's quite horrible
[00:06:19] and it is an insult. Um you know you
[00:06:21] just like I'm a Palestinian American who
[00:06:24] was uh very much influenced by living
[00:06:26] under Israeli occupation and apartheid.
[00:06:29] your family is from Sudan and you
[00:06:33] watched like your country being split
[00:06:35] into half um by Western imperialist
[00:06:38] nations and so I'm sure that played a
[00:06:40] huge role in your life um mission in
[00:06:46] exposing US imperialism not just in
[00:06:50] Sudan but in other countries ac across
[00:06:52] Africa.
[00:06:54] >> Yeah, 100%. Jeffrey Saxs said it best.
[00:06:58] He said, "The US helped to divide Sudan
[00:07:01] into two republics, and now we've got
[00:07:03] war in the south and war in the north.
[00:07:05] Job well done." Um, and yeah, we, you
[00:07:09] know, the the conflict in Sudan, it
[00:07:12] doesn't get coverage, it doesn't get
[00:07:14] reported on because the Western
[00:07:16] mainstream narrative has depicted Africa
[00:07:19] as a place of conflict. So that when
[00:07:21] people die, it's just seen as normal.
[00:07:24] When people starve, it's just seen as
[00:07:26] normal.
[00:07:27] uh when people eat cockroaches because
[00:07:29] they've got no food. It's just normal
[00:07:31] when children die because of sanitation
[00:07:34] issues. Uh you know my my former
[00:07:36] basketball coach, my mom sent me a
[00:07:38] WhatsApp message saying your former
[00:07:39] basketball coach has just died of deni
[00:07:41] fever. It's just normal. It's just
[00:07:44] normal. And so what African stream was
[00:07:47] was trying to explain is these
[00:07:49] situations are not normal. These
[00:07:51] situations are manufactured. And for us
[00:07:54] to change the direction of the continent
[00:07:57] that we're connected to, we first need
[00:07:59] to have an understanding of that. That
[00:08:01] that that being African doesn't mean
[00:08:04] that we have to be subject to poverty,
[00:08:08] to destitution, to war. This doesn't
[00:08:11] have to be the way. You know, if we take
[00:08:13] control of our resources,
[00:08:16] if we if we take control of what is our
[00:08:19] god-given right, which lies beneath our
[00:08:21] feet, we can rise. Uh, and we're seeing
[00:08:24] that's what's happened in Bikina Fasa.
[00:08:27] That's what's happening in Mali, and
[00:08:29] that's what's happening in Asia. Um, but
[00:08:31] it's not happening in in enough
[00:08:33] countries. Um, I'll just cut you on one
[00:08:37] thing. You're saying Africa's rising. I
[00:08:39] wish that was the case. In reality, it's
[00:08:41] the Sahel that's rising. Most of the
[00:08:44] other countries within the continent,
[00:08:45] sadly, are ruled by neoc colonial
[00:08:48] puppets from Nigeria, the Congo. You
[00:08:51] know, Congo has just signed the worst
[00:08:54] peace deal um uh with Rwanda that that I
[00:08:58] think has that that any sovereign
[00:09:00] government has ever signed on behalf of
[00:09:02] the people. Uh they just signed another
[00:09:04] deal with with M23 in Qatar um where
[00:09:09] they basically M23 has to give up
[00:09:12] nothing. The land that it's occupying in
[00:09:14] Eastern GMA it gets to hold on to. Um so
[00:09:18] these are these are the these are the
[00:09:19] neoc colonial governments that our
[00:09:21] people are subjected to and this is why
[00:09:24] the young leadership in Mali and Bikina
[00:09:27] Faso in the year are such a threat to
[00:09:29] the rest of the continent because
[00:09:30] they're worry that this will have you
[00:09:33] know a domino effect on the rest of the
[00:09:35] continent and we and African stream was
[00:09:37] launched in September 2022.
[00:09:40] Um Ibrahim Chore came into power in
[00:09:42] October 2022. So we basically covered
[00:09:47] our rise and his rise um hand in hand.
[00:09:50] We've covered him from the very
[00:09:51] beginning. Um you know not at the
[00:09:53] beginning not everyone was favorable to
[00:09:56] our coverage but uh they did eventually
[00:09:58] see the light. Um uh but that's another
[00:10:02] reason why I feel like we were so
[00:10:03] dangerous to US State Department because
[00:10:06] we quickly became an English-sp
[00:10:09] speakaking world uh the the the largest
[00:10:13] African media platform reporting
[00:10:15] accurately on what's going on in the
[00:10:18] Sahal. You know the mainstream media
[00:10:20] would have you believe that there's some
[00:10:22] sort of sickness in the Sahal. People
[00:10:24] are just you know attracted to many
[00:10:27] military uniforms. They won't talk about
[00:10:29] the economic conditions that led to the
[00:10:32] rise of these free leaders. They won't
[00:10:35] talk about the security conditions that
[00:10:38] led to the rise of these free leaders.
[00:10:40] The Sahal has become the epicenter of
[00:10:43] the so-called anti- uh and sorry of the
[00:10:46] so-called war on terror. Yet before the
[00:10:50] US and France started supporting the
[00:10:53] Sahalian states with terror, there was
[00:10:55] hardly any terrorism within the region.
[00:10:57] since they've entered the frey terrorism
[00:10:59] has has grown by 8 to 10,000%.
[00:11:03] Uh so the people are frustrated um and
[00:11:06] they said enough is enough. We need a
[00:11:08] different type of leadership leadership
[00:11:10] and out of the ashes rose Ibrahim Chore
[00:11:13] in Bikinas. Aim go was obviously first
[00:11:17] in Mali and then finally Abd Rahman Tali
[00:11:21] in Nija.
[00:11:24] >> Incredible. And I think that it's this
[00:11:26] kind of coverage is so important because
[00:11:28] here in the US like you said anything
[00:11:30] that's happening in Africa has always
[00:11:32] looked at from like a tribal perspective
[00:11:33] or you know this famine or this drought
[00:11:37] or this whatever issue that the western
[00:11:40] corporate media is going to be covering
[00:11:42] is going to be through the lens of a of
[00:11:46] colonialism instead of looking at how
[00:11:49] western countries especially the United
[00:11:51] States and its military Afric
[00:11:55] um corporations that are operating in
[00:11:58] countries like uh Nigeria are
[00:12:00] effectively causing a lot of these
[00:12:03] issues and so modern-day colonialism of
[00:12:07] course still exists in these countries.
[00:12:09] It's it's very very sad, but it's also
[00:12:11] inspiring because you've also shined a
[00:12:13] light on these resistance movements that
[00:12:16] are standing up to uh not just US
[00:12:19] colonialism, but also Israeli
[00:12:21] expansionism and influence in the region
[00:12:24] like in the Sahel. So, that's been quite
[00:12:26] uh inspiring to see and I and I want to
[00:12:28] go get more into that in a bit, but I I
[00:12:30] want to turn to Allan because Allan um
[00:12:33] has been covering this big tech
[00:12:35] censorship um for press for a long time
[00:12:38] and he's uncovered a lot of the money
[00:12:41] trails, the Israeli influence, um the
[00:12:44] British influence even
[00:12:47] just how
[00:12:49] were they able to Allan, how was Anthony
[00:12:51] Blinkin able to maneuver his way into
[00:12:54] big in in such a way to shut down um
[00:12:57] African stream
[00:12:59] like t talk to us more about the
[00:13:01] mechanisms that were used to shut down
[00:13:03] African stream.
[00:13:05] >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean the first thing
[00:13:07] to say is the reason they targeted
[00:13:09] African Stream is because of how they
[00:13:12] covered it. They're scared of what
[00:13:13] African Stream has to say. They're
[00:13:15] scared of the message that they were
[00:13:16] broadcasting to what was it between 30
[00:13:19] and 40 million people per month. African
[00:13:21] Stream was um reaching at its height.
[00:13:24] And so they went after it. They zapped
[00:13:26] it. They first tried to smear it as a
[00:13:29] propaganda outlet of of Moscow, which as
[00:13:32] Ahmed said is a very common tactic
[00:13:35] throughout the decades, trying to
[00:13:37] associate revolutionary leaders like
[00:13:40] Patrice Leumba or Nelson Mandela with
[00:13:42] somehow being puppets of the Kremlin.
[00:13:45] Um, it happens to black leaders in the
[00:13:47] United States as well. remember all of
[00:13:49] the uh talk about Martin Luther King
[00:13:51] being a secret communist being, you
[00:13:53] know, ruled by Moscow. All of this is
[00:13:56] utter nonsense. And, you know, it's it's
[00:13:57] even happening to Mintress. We are
[00:13:59] constantly smeared as uh agents of
[00:14:02] Russia or Assad of uh secretly in the
[00:14:06] the pay of China or Venezuela or
[00:14:08] whatever uir
[00:14:11] of the United States dur.
[00:14:14] But um this smear uh although it's
[00:14:17] completely factually inaccurate um
[00:14:20] really stuck and the reason is is that
[00:14:23] over the past 10 years big media social
[00:14:26] media platforms have become increasingly
[00:14:29] intertwined with the US national
[00:14:31] security state. After the 2016 election,
[00:14:34] people in Washington started to get very
[00:14:37] worried and deeply concerned about the
[00:14:39] power that social media and internet,
[00:14:41] more generally, alternative media can
[00:14:43] have on um influencing the public. It
[00:14:47] was clear that the uh powers that be
[00:14:49] didn't particularly want Donald Trump to
[00:14:51] get elected in 2016. They preferred
[00:14:53] Hillary Clinton because she was a more
[00:14:55] safe pair of hands. That's not because
[00:14:57] Trump is some radical outsider that's,
[00:14:59] you know, gonna lead the revolution.
[00:15:01] didn't know he was just a bit more
[00:15:03] erratic. And what we've seen in the past
[00:15:05] 10 years is big um the big national
[00:15:09] security state players like the FBI,
[00:15:11] like the CIA, and like the NSA
[00:15:14] infiltrating their way into uh the big
[00:15:17] social media platforms, bolstering them,
[00:15:19] but also um drawing getting parachuted
[00:15:23] into very high positions, positions of
[00:15:25] power and influence uh which effectively
[00:15:29] allow them to control and dictate what
[00:15:31] everyone in the world sees in in their
[00:15:33] social media feeds. And this is not just
[00:15:35] an American problem. This is true
[00:15:37] whether you're in Birmingham, Alabama or
[00:15:41] Botswana, Bundi or Bahrain. This is
[00:15:43] what's going on all around the world. So
[00:15:45] it's pretty much state censorship but on
[00:15:47] a global level. I'll give you a couple
[00:15:49] of examples. uh the person who is
[00:15:52] ultimately in charge at Facebook for
[00:15:54] content moderation
[00:15:56] ultimately who pulls the trigger on uh
[00:15:59] deciding what is allowed and what isn't
[00:16:01] in terms of content is a guy called
[00:16:03] Aaron Burman. Now, until 2019, Aaron
[00:16:07] Burman was one of the highest ranking
[00:16:08] members of the CIA. Until uh one day in
[00:16:12] the summer, he left his job at the CIA
[00:16:14] and was parachuted into this top
[00:16:16] position at Facebook, whereby he calls
[00:16:18] the shots for what the three billion
[00:16:20] users see and don't see in their news
[00:16:23] feeds. And this is a similar thing
[00:16:25] happening with Instagram, with Tik Tok,
[00:16:27] with Google. All of these platforms have
[00:16:30] had national security state members
[00:16:32] dropped in at these points because
[00:16:35] ultimately what we see uh in our news
[00:16:38] feeds is not random. Uh these are the
[00:16:40] results of algorithms and as we've seen
[00:16:42] with Elon Musk tweaking the algorithm in
[00:16:45] uh in Twitter constantly and suddenly it
[00:16:47] becomes a white nationalist overnight.
[00:16:49] These algorithms are not set in stone.
[00:16:51] They're not natural. They are actually
[00:16:53] programs written by humans and they
[00:16:55] reflect the interests of humans and
[00:16:58] organizations. And so the interest
[00:17:01] reflected
[00:17:02] when it comes to big social media
[00:17:04] nowadays is the interest of the US
[00:17:06] national security state. And that's why
[00:17:08] places like Mintress are constantly
[00:17:11] deranked, de uh listed, demoted, and
[00:17:14] sometimes deleted. And that's ultimately
[00:17:17] why African stream was also targeted
[00:17:19] because they just simply send the wrong
[00:17:21] message. Uh a message of revolution, a
[00:17:24] message of hope and a message that a
[00:17:25] better world is possible. And that is
[00:17:27] absolutely not something that people in
[00:17:29] Washington want people to be hearing.
[00:17:31] They do not want people inspired. They
[00:17:33] want people cowed, downtrodden, and
[00:17:36] thinking that this is the best of all
[00:17:38] possible worlds.
[00:17:40] >> And that's absolutely
[00:17:41] >> Can I just
[00:17:42] >> Yeah. Can I can I just add to that point
[00:17:44] because there'll be people watching
[00:17:46] saying, "Oh, there's other revolutionary
[00:17:49] media that haven't been taken down. So,
[00:17:51] why African Stream?" So, let me try and
[00:17:53] answer that question if I can. Um, what
[00:17:57] was unique about African Stream is I
[00:18:02] don't know how we did it. Um, but we
[00:18:04] managed to curate a list of very
[00:18:08] influential
[00:18:10] what we call Africans in America. what
[00:18:12] the mainstream calls African-American uh
[00:18:14] celebrities
[00:18:16] um who were following us and this is
[00:18:18] this is who the Democratic party in the
[00:18:21] leadup to an election this is who they
[00:18:23] enlist because they feel like you know
[00:18:26] the African population in the US they
[00:18:29] just need their their favorite celebrity
[00:18:31] to tell them who to vote for and that
[00:18:33] will win that will win them the the
[00:18:35] black vote and and by and large that
[00:18:37] does work um this election it didn't
[00:18:40] work as much but by and large they did
[00:18:41] get the black vote. So some so to some
[00:18:43] degree it did work. Um so I feel like
[00:18:47] the attack on African stream it happened
[00:18:50] two months before the election.
[00:18:53] There were several attacks by I won't
[00:18:55] call them the left. It's the liberal uh
[00:18:58] liberal elite media in the US. Uh so the
[00:19:01] first one was NBC.
[00:19:03] uh which they said African stream is
[00:19:07] spreading disinformation to 40 million
[00:19:10] au uh African-Ameans.
[00:19:12] Uh and they said that and they were
[00:19:14] citing a report. Um but they never said
[00:19:19] they never showed one example of what
[00:19:21] disinformation we were we were
[00:19:23] spreading. However, the examples that
[00:19:25] they did give for for I think it's
[00:19:27] called the shade room and a few other
[00:19:29] media outlets that were mentioned in the
[00:19:30] report were all related to Joe Biden
[00:19:33] were all related to Joe Biden and
[00:19:35] somewhat encouraging black people not to
[00:19:38] vote for Joe Biden because of you know
[00:19:40] the crime bill because of his record etc
[00:19:43] etc. So, so you know that was the first
[00:19:46] uh kind of warning and then we did
[00:19:50] another report um where we said it
[00:19:53] doesn't matter who gets elected in
[00:19:55] November.
[00:19:57] US drones are going to rain down on
[00:19:59] Somalia. And so we did a report from
[00:20:02] George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Donald
[00:20:06] Trump to Joe Biden. We listed how many
[00:20:08] drone strikes each president had rained
[00:20:10] down on on um on um Somalia. Um and we
[00:20:15] said that whatever happens with the US
[00:20:18] election, drones are going to rain down
[00:20:20] on Somalia. So, Voice of America, which
[00:20:22] is state funded and openly state funded,
[00:20:25] came after us um with two pieces. Uh so,
[00:20:29] they did a video about us. Uh you can
[00:20:31] find the video on YouTube. is hilarious
[00:20:33] because they've got every single comment
[00:20:36] is African stream was the truth. You
[00:20:38] guys don't know what you're talking
[00:20:39] about. They got absolutely ratioed and
[00:20:41] then they did an article.
[00:20:43] Um now what was interesting about the
[00:20:46] Voice of America piece, the first piece
[00:20:48] by NBC, we did a rebuttal. Um and our
[00:20:52] rebuttal was so popular and went so
[00:20:54] viral that the journalist that wrote the
[00:20:56] article had to put his Instagram on
[00:20:58] private. So when the voice of America
[00:21:01] did their piece
[00:21:03] um the journalist didn't want to use
[00:21:05] their name so they put one name
[00:21:08] initially and she must have contacted a
[00:21:10] manager then another name appeared next
[00:21:13] to the article but we took a screenshot
[00:21:15] and we found out it was a journalist
[00:21:17] based in Kenya. Um, so it it showed that
[00:21:21] that journalists were even afraid to
[00:21:23] come after us because we had such a big
[00:21:25] following, because we had such an
[00:21:26] influential following, particularly
[00:21:28] amongst uh uh you know what they call
[00:21:31] black Twitter that that that that black
[00:21:34] uh the African uh uh African in America
[00:21:38] demographic, especially the celebrities.
[00:21:40] Um, so I think they would have carried
[00:21:43] on with these hit pieces if they could
[00:21:45] have find winning mercenaries, but I
[00:21:48] think they ran out of willing
[00:21:50] mercenaries because we kept doing a
[00:21:51] rebuttal every time that we got
[00:21:52] attacked. So that's when I feel like it
[00:21:55] was escalated to uh Antony Blinking for
[00:21:58] him to say what he said. And then after
[00:22:00] he said what he said, within
[00:22:04] 24 hours, there was an article by the
[00:22:06] Stanford Observatory.
[00:22:09] In the article by Stamford Observatory,
[00:22:11] they'd gone through all of our profiles.
[00:22:13] The cameramen, mine, I used to work at
[00:22:16] Press TV. Cameraman used to work for
[00:22:17] CTGN. It was a real deep dive. There's
[00:22:20] literally no way she could have wrote
[00:22:21] they could have wrote that article
[00:22:23] within that time frame. It was clear
[00:22:26] that this the State Department had
[00:22:27] contacted the journalist beforehand and
[00:22:31] said, "We're going to make this
[00:22:32] announcement on Friday. We need you to
[00:22:34] have an article ready uh by the Monday."
[00:22:37] And another thing that was revealing is
[00:22:39] the numbers that she quoted us or the
[00:22:42] YouTube, you know, they they said how
[00:22:43] many subscribers we had on each
[00:22:44] platform. The number that she quoted us
[00:22:47] for YouTube was less than it was when
[00:22:50] Anthony Blinkin made the announcement.
[00:22:52] So clearly she took her data from a
[00:22:55] period uh before the announcement, but
[00:22:58] the ann but the article was meant to be
[00:23:00] a reaction to the announcement. So, how
[00:23:02] do you make how do you pre-write an
[00:23:04] article
[00:23:05] um as a reaction to an announcement
[00:23:07] before the announcement's made unless
[00:23:09] there's some sort of coordination? Um,
[00:23:11] so I think that's it's very important.
[00:23:13] And if we think back to the elections,
[00:23:15] this was the time where at Democratic
[00:23:19] Party conventions and events, they would
[00:23:21] see someone wearing a hijab, a
[00:23:24] headscarf, someone that looked like they
[00:23:25] were from West Asia, what they call the
[00:23:27] Middle East, um, or, you know, have any
[00:23:30] sort of, uh, symbolism related to
[00:23:32] Palestine. And it would stop them from
[00:23:34] going into the event because what would
[00:23:36] happen is people would go into the
[00:23:38] event, they would shout, "Camela Harris,
[00:23:40] you're war criminal. Joe Biden, you're
[00:23:42] war criminal." And so on and that would
[00:23:44] go viral. And that was that was that was
[00:23:46] seemed to be damaging the Democrats
[00:23:49] campaign. and we were constantly
[00:23:51] covering that stuff and also obviously
[00:23:53] making the connections uh between what's
[00:23:55] going on in the continent as well as
[00:23:57] what's happening uh you know Camela
[00:23:59] Harris's record in locking up black and
[00:24:02] brown people and referring to herself as
[00:24:04] the top cop. So all of that meant that
[00:24:07] we were seen as an a threat at a key
[00:24:10] critical time before the US elections.
[00:24:12] And one more thing that I'll add, if
[00:24:14] anyone has saw Joe Rogan's interview
[00:24:17] with Mark Zuckerberg, um I'd strongly
[00:24:20] advise you to to to to watch it because
[00:24:23] in that interview, you see how petty the
[00:24:26] Biden administration was when it came to
[00:24:28] censorship. The Zuckerberg is saying
[00:24:31] they would call me about they'd call me
[00:24:33] about everything. There was a Tom Cruz
[00:24:36] uh meme that went viral and someone from
[00:24:38] the administration said that you need to
[00:24:40] take this down. So if you think they're
[00:24:42] threatened by a meme,
[00:24:44] >> you only have to imagine what something
[00:24:46] like Mint Press represents, what
[00:24:49] something like African Stream
[00:24:50] represents, what something like Grey
[00:24:52] Zone and some of these other platforms
[00:24:55] represent.
[00:24:56] >> And it should also be said that only
[00:24:58] hours after Blinken made this speech,
[00:25:00] right, that your Instagram, your Tik
[00:25:02] Tok, your social medias were all
[00:25:05] completely deleted and uh your Twitter
[00:25:07] was demonetized. And this happened in a
[00:25:09] period of just hours after Blinken made
[00:25:11] that speech. So it's clear that you know
[00:25:14] they are totally taking their queue from
[00:25:16] the US State Department here.
[00:25:19] >> Yeah. There was no there was no process.
[00:25:21] You know it's funny because they say you
[00:25:23] violated community guidelines.
[00:25:26] >> Okay. What what community guidelines?
[00:25:28] They don't even say
[00:25:30] >> we've all received that message before.
[00:25:32] >> Yeah. You violated community guidelines.
[00:25:35] Your account. So YouTube was the first.
[00:25:36] you violated community guidelines. Your
[00:25:38] account's been deleted. And then came
[00:25:40] the kicker. Uh you don't have you can't
[00:25:43] appeal this decision.
[00:25:46] >> Yeah. This was pushed by a so-called
[00:25:47] Democrat administration.
[00:25:50] >> Very Democratic. Very Democratic.
[00:25:52] >> Well, I would say, and you know, Allan's
[00:25:54] been around for working with Mint Press
[00:25:56] for a while now. I would say the most
[00:25:58] censorship we faced on social media was
[00:26:00] when a Democrat was in office. I mean,
[00:26:03] when Obama was president and Joe Biden
[00:26:06] was his vice president
[00:26:08] and um the United States was backing a
[00:26:12] uh Saudibacked
[00:26:14] uh blockade of Yemen, I mean, Mint Press
[00:26:16] was literally one of the only media
[00:26:19] outlets covering um the starvation
[00:26:22] campaign and the famine that was taking
[00:26:25] place inside of Yemen and US complicity
[00:26:29] in that, how the United States was
[00:26:31] selling Saudi Arabia be a you know
[00:26:33] record number of weapons. We were
[00:26:35] refueling Saudi jets before they were
[00:26:37] bombing hospitals and schools and uh
[00:26:40] grain silos and destroying all the
[00:26:42] farms. How Saudi Arabia was
[00:26:44] assassinating Yemeni fishermen and it
[00:26:48] was our coverage that was targeted in
[00:26:50] censorship campaigns. We were constantly
[00:26:52] getting our posts on social media taken
[00:26:55] down for violating community uh
[00:26:58] guidelines because we showed images of
[00:27:00] starving children, literally skeletal
[00:27:03] Yemen children. We were showing those
[00:27:05] images and we were getting violations
[00:27:07] and those images were taken down. Carlos
[00:27:09] Latu, our um cartoonist, he would do
[00:27:13] cartoons about depicting, you know, the
[00:27:15] genocide in Yemen. And we would just
[00:27:18] every day we would have one new um
[00:27:22] community guideline violation and every
[00:27:24] day on our website even we would have a
[00:27:26] community guideline violation for, you
[00:27:28] know, because we showed too many graphic
[00:27:29] images. Like this is all BS. And it was
[00:27:33] it basically created like the set up the
[00:27:36] stage for the kind of censorship we're
[00:27:38] seeing today. I really really believe
[00:27:40] that. And in that time that's when we
[00:27:43] were actually targeted by um
[00:27:48] by Google's Project Owl. So when we say
[00:27:50] we're facing censorship and we're, you
[00:27:52] know, we're being demonetized and we're
[00:27:54] being de, you know, uh, delisted or
[00:27:56] whatever, like it's because we are like
[00:27:59] we were and have been and are still are
[00:28:04] being deranked. Um, before the uh, Trump
[00:28:08] and Hillary Clinton election, Mint Press
[00:28:11] in any news search result was one of the
[00:28:13] first five links you would find in
[00:28:16] Google News. They deranked us. They
[00:28:19] removed us off of We're still on Google
[00:28:22] News, you know, they didn't take us off
[00:28:24] completely, but they deranked us um to
[00:28:26] page like five. Nobody clicks next next
[00:28:30] to page five. Nobody goes that far.
[00:28:32] You're looking at the first page. So,
[00:28:34] who's on the first page now? The New
[00:28:36] York Times, the Washington Post, Wall
[00:28:38] Street Journal, CNN, MSNBC.
[00:28:42] That's who they brought back up to the
[00:28:45] to the top page. Whereas at one point,
[00:28:47] Mint Press was literally competing with
[00:28:49] all of those media outlets and we were
[00:28:51] getting so much traffic on our website
[00:28:54] and they saw Mint Press and our coverage
[00:28:56] of US imperialism as a threat and
[00:28:59] because we were also shining a light on
[00:29:01] resistance movements and you know
[00:29:04] countries and movements pushing back
[00:29:05] against US imperialism, they deranked
[00:29:08] us. So, you know, obviously we haven't
[00:29:10] been taken down per se, but we have been
[00:29:12] the target uh of big tech. Um, and I we
[00:29:17] do believe it is at the behest of
[00:29:19] possibly the State Department and other
[00:29:21] places. I mean, look what happened to
[00:29:23] our GoFundMe
[00:29:25] uh fundraisers. They were taken down and
[00:29:28] we were banned from GoFundMe and we were
[00:29:31] also banned from PayPal. I believe Allan
[00:29:33] was also targeted um from PayPal after
[00:29:38] our coverage on Ukraine cuz that
[00:29:40] coverage was was going viral and we were
[00:29:43] exposing most of it was Allen's coverage
[00:29:44] we were exposing um what was it what was
[00:29:48] the outlet called Alan?
[00:29:50] Yeah, I mean you're correct. That's the
[00:29:52] KV independent you're talking about. And
[00:29:54] uh yeah, I mean our debanking came just
[00:29:59] a few days after we now know that other
[00:30:02] journalists were contacting the UK
[00:30:05] secret services and contacting the
[00:30:07] famous Biden disinformation
[00:30:10] to try to get us deplatformed or some
[00:30:12] sort of response uh from Western
[00:30:15] governments. So, you know, it doesn't
[00:30:17] take a mathematician to put two and two
[00:30:19] together here. Yeah, absolutely. So, and
[00:30:21] I don't want to, you know, derail too
[00:30:23] much on this topic, um, because, you
[00:30:25] know, we've been talking about this for
[00:30:26] a long time, but, uh, when we say we're
[00:30:28] being censored and deranked and all of
[00:30:30] these things, it's cuz it really is
[00:30:32] happening and we are up against a
[00:30:34] multi-trillion dollar, uh, corporate
[00:30:37] media machine. So, we were still here,
[00:30:40] Ahmed, you're still here and you're
[00:30:41] you're still doing amazing things, and
[00:30:43] we'll talk about that um, shortly after.
[00:30:45] But, you know, we still have to push
[00:30:47] back and fight back. Um, and so, and
[00:30:51] speaking of the Democratic Party, I do
[00:30:53] believe that is why Sean King was
[00:30:55] actually completely deleted off of Meta
[00:30:58] Platforms. Um, Sean King is like a civil
[00:31:01] rights activist and he's been covering
[00:31:04] police brutality for I mean, two decades
[00:31:08] and issue with issues with social
[00:31:09] justice in the United States. and he
[00:31:11] amassed millions of followers across all
[00:31:14] platforms. On Instagram alone, he had
[00:31:16] over like almost two million followers.
[00:31:18] On Facebook, he had almost two million
[00:31:20] followers. And right with this last
[00:31:23] election, he was deleted. I mean, Ahmed,
[00:31:26] do you think that Sean King was removed
[00:31:30] for a similar reasons? Because, you
[00:31:33] know, he's been quite influential in the
[00:31:35] African-American space in the United
[00:31:37] States. And, you know, I I I've been
[00:31:39] following him for a long time. He's done
[00:31:41] really great work on um you know police
[00:31:43] brutality coverage.
[00:31:45] >> Definitely. Definitely. But I'll give
[00:31:47] more context.
[00:31:48] >> Yeah.
[00:31:49] >> Um
[00:31:50] >> I believe there's acceptable parameters
[00:31:53] of what a a African in America can talk
[00:31:59] about. Now you can talk about police
[00:32:01] brutality, you can talk about race, you
[00:32:04] can talk about race relations, but as
[00:32:06] soon as you start to connect the dot
[00:32:08] with imperialism, with other struggles
[00:32:11] around the world, that's when you become
[00:32:12] a danger. Yeah. So it's not a
[00:32:15] coincidence if we if we trace back the
[00:32:17] history of Malcolm X. What was Malcolm
[00:32:19] doing before he got assassinated? He was
[00:32:22] visiting African nations and he was
[00:32:24] saying to them, "We are the same as you.
[00:32:27] We were kidnapped from this continent,
[00:32:30] but we are the same people. We want you
[00:32:33] to lobby on our behalf and turn this
[00:32:35] from a civil rights issue into a human
[00:32:38] rights issue. Yeah. And we want African
[00:32:41] states to lobby on our behalf of the
[00:32:45] diaspora who are struggling because when
[00:32:48] Chinese people are are troubled outside
[00:32:51] of China, the Chinese government acts.
[00:32:53] So they so he was advocating for Africa
[00:32:56] African states to advocate on behalf of
[00:32:58] African people within the US. Now Sean
[00:33:01] King as you said he's been talking about
[00:33:03] police brut brutality and racism in the
[00:33:05] US. But in the last
[00:33:07] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[00:33:08] >> few years he started talking about
[00:33:10] Palestine started talking about you know
[00:33:13] the the the the what happened in in the
[00:33:15] place where you're residing in in
[00:33:16] Minnesota George Floyd. that training
[00:33:20] that training that that the the the
[00:33:22] police were were practicing they'd
[00:33:24] learned from from uh the the occupation
[00:33:27] forces in Israel that's when he became
[00:33:29] dangerous. Yeah. I think had he have
[00:33:33] have kind of stuck to domestic issues
[00:33:35] and domestic issues only he probably
[00:33:37] still would have had a platform and I
[00:33:39] also feel like that's where we had an
[00:33:41] issue as well at African stream you know
[00:33:43] when we used to talk about um uh
[00:33:46] Palestine and Gaz and what was going on
[00:33:48] and connecting it to settler colonial
[00:33:50] projects that happened in the continent
[00:33:52] of Africa as well as in the north of
[00:33:54] Ireland you know that's that that's
[00:33:56] dangerous that's dangerous because that
[00:33:59] that brings a new awakening
[00:34:01] and it has the the the possibility of
[00:34:04] uniting people in struggles. Um and and
[00:34:08] so I think it's more to do with not just
[00:34:10] his criticism of the Democratic Party,
[00:34:13] but also him connecting the dot.
[00:34:15] >> Yeah.
[00:34:16] >> Um and and understanding that
[00:34:18] >> the the the African people in the US are
[00:34:21] internally colonized. You know, they
[00:34:24] they didn't they didn't migrate to the
[00:34:26] US with a passport on a tourist visa.
[00:34:30] They were kidnapped, taken hostage and
[00:34:32] transported across the Atlantic Ocean
[00:34:35] and then they were put in bondage.
[00:34:37] That's the history that's the history of
[00:34:39] the the African experience in the US.
[00:34:42] What they've tried to do post Obama is
[00:34:44] they've tried to convince African people
[00:34:46] to American what Ajamu Baracka said
[00:34:49] calls Americanizing the Negro. You know,
[00:34:52] getting them on board with the American
[00:34:55] patriotic imperialist project. Um, and
[00:34:59] people like Sean King and others were
[00:35:01] saying, "No, this if there's why would
[00:35:04] you be patriotic to an imperialist
[00:35:06] project? This is what this country does
[00:35:08] around the world.
[00:35:11] um you're better off connecting with
[00:35:13] with the struggles of the people around
[00:35:15] the world because you have more in
[00:35:17] common with colonized people as an
[00:35:20] internal colonalized group of people in
[00:35:22] the in America than you do with the
[00:35:25] elites and the the the the imperialist
[00:35:28] war machine that runs you.
[00:35:31] >> About Sean King,
[00:35:33] I agree with you. I think right towards
[00:35:35] the end, right before he got banned, he
[00:35:37] was collaborating with Mit Press, with
[00:35:40] African Stream about a lot of issues
[00:35:42] that dealt with um US imperialism and
[00:35:46] other nations and started to cover more
[00:35:48] foreign policy and kind of connecting
[00:35:50] the dots about how we're all um you
[00:35:53] know, people here that are oppressed
[00:35:55] have more in common with people that are
[00:35:57] oppressed overseas. and he was covering,
[00:36:00] you know, how uh Israel was training
[00:36:02] police forces in African countries and
[00:36:05] contributing to that oppression
[00:36:07] oppression there. But, you know, we've
[00:36:10] been we've been talking about this issue
[00:36:12] of censorship um for a while now. So
[00:36:14] people who do follow MIT press um know
[00:36:16] MIT press has actually been leading the
[00:36:18] charge in the coverage about big tech um
[00:36:21] and the inner workings and how they're
[00:36:24] collaborating with the US government to
[00:36:26] crack down on disscent and alternative
[00:36:28] media. But I want to uh move back into
[00:36:32] uh resistance movements within Africa.
[00:36:35] One leader that has drawn special
[00:36:38] attention is Ibrahim Cher of Burkina
[00:36:41] Faso. Since coming to power in 2022, he
[00:36:45] has certainly struck a revolutionary
[00:36:48] tone, nationalizing key industries and
[00:36:52] expelling French forces. What have you
[00:36:55] made of Charor Ahmed? And to what extent
[00:36:58] is to what extent is he the real deal?
[00:37:03] He is the real deal. Um and he's a
[00:37:05] fantastic leader. He's very charismatic
[00:37:08] and you know, you need that charisma.
[00:37:11] Um, but what what the comrades in the
[00:37:13] Sahal keep telling me and emphasizing
[00:37:16] is it's not just about him. You know,
[00:37:18] it's the alliance of Sahal states.
[00:37:21] There's three fantastic leaders. Um,
[00:37:24] because he's good-looking, because he's
[00:37:26] charismatic, you know, he's muscular,
[00:37:28] he's he's the one that's getting all the
[00:37:30] attention, but all three of them are
[00:37:32] doing fantastic stuff. And and you know,
[00:37:35] this revolution was really started off
[00:37:37] in Miley. Um, you know, they were the
[00:37:40] first to kick out French troops, they
[00:37:42] were the first to kick out French media.
[00:37:46] Um, and then obviously Pikina Faso uh
[00:37:48] followed and then Nija followed. Um, but
[00:37:51] this comes out of desire. It's it's not
[00:37:54] a top-down movement. This is a movement
[00:37:58] from the grassroots.
[00:38:00] uh these three regions have been
[00:38:02] devastated by terrorism
[00:38:05] um and devastated by neoc colonialism.
[00:38:08] Uh these are some of the poorest
[00:38:10] countries within the continent. So Nijer
[00:38:13] before the coup in 2023 was ranked as
[00:38:16] the second poorest country in the world
[00:38:20] since the coups happened since they take
[00:38:23] control of the uranium and some of the
[00:38:25] mining sector.
[00:38:27] It's no longer the second poorest
[00:38:29] country in the world and it's actually
[00:38:30] one of the fastest growing economies in
[00:38:32] the con not only in the continent but in
[00:38:34] the planet. In in uh in 2024
[00:38:38] it had potential uh uh it had sorry GDP
[00:38:42] growth between 11 and 12%. Uh Bikin Faso
[00:38:46] also had GDP growth around 8%. So this
[00:38:50] goes to show that when you stop being
[00:38:53] middle management for colonism,
[00:38:56] when you stop just being a conduit for
[00:39:00] the extraction of resources out of your
[00:39:02] country, then of course we have
[00:39:05] everything that we need around us. These
[00:39:07] are not poor countries. These are
[00:39:10] countries that are overexploited.
[00:39:12] Yeah. How can a country like Bikina Fasa
[00:39:15] that has all the gold mines, how can a
[00:39:17] country like uh Nijair which is rich in
[00:39:21] not just uranium but in copper and other
[00:39:24] materials, how can they be so poor
[00:39:26] unless they were their resources were
[00:39:28] used to enrich others. Um and and the
[00:39:31] people on the continent understood this.
[00:39:33] You know, they describe the African as
[00:39:36] if we're we're some some sort of docile
[00:39:39] passive creature. Uh that we see, you
[00:39:43] know, these planes, these fancy planes
[00:39:45] come in and fly out and we see all these
[00:39:47] foreign diplomats come in and fly out
[00:39:50] and we don't see the conditions, the
[00:39:51] living conditions of our people change.
[00:39:53] And we don't connect the dots. Of
[00:39:55] course, we connect the dots. We
[00:39:56] understand that these countries gained
[00:39:59] flag independence. they never really
[00:40:01] became sovereign independent nations
[00:40:04] which are governing for the people. Um
[00:40:07] and that's what these revolutions
[00:40:09] represent. But in Bikin Fasa in
[00:40:11] particular, you know, he he's done some
[00:40:13] fantastic stuff infrastructure projects,
[00:40:17] set up factories, tomato factories. He's
[00:40:20] encouraged businesses to come. So
[00:40:22] Patriotic Bikina Bay have come back and
[00:40:25] set up businesses. Um he's paved roads.
[00:40:29] uh he's there's a there's ambitious
[00:40:31] target of paving 50,000 kilometers of
[00:40:34] road in the country by 2029. Um he's
[00:40:38] enlisted volunteers to to to help defend
[00:40:42] the country and people are
[00:40:43] enthusiastically doing that. He's made
[00:40:46] people believe that this is our fight.
[00:40:49] This is our fight for sovereignty. This
[00:40:51] is our fight for independence and this
[00:40:53] is our fight against uh against
[00:40:55] terrorism. So right outside the
[00:40:57] presidential palace you have a group of
[00:41:00] volunteers that sleep there day and
[00:41:03] night defending the president.
[00:41:06] Yeah. Um you know so so they know that
[00:41:10] he is embarked on a revolutionary
[00:41:12] journey and as part of that
[00:41:15] revolutionary journey there is risks and
[00:41:18] there's already been assassination
[00:41:19] attempts on his life because of what
[00:41:22] this person is trying to achieve. But he
[00:41:26] is part of a collective within Bikina
[00:41:27] Fasa and Bikina Fasa is is part of a
[00:41:29] collective within within the alliance of
[00:41:32] Sahal states. So this is a movement and
[00:41:34] the movement will only grow. Uh in Ghana
[00:41:38] we've just had elections in Ghana. Uh
[00:41:40] Muhammad has just been reelected. Um not
[00:41:44] reelected. This is his second term but
[00:41:47] there's been an 8-year uh nano kafu
[00:41:51] regime in between. And what's
[00:41:53] interesting, I lived in Ghana during
[00:41:55] Muhammad's first term and he wasn't
[00:41:58] speaking like a revolutionary there. Uh
[00:42:01] but uh during his inauguration, Captain
[00:42:04] Ibraham Ché came and he got the loud
[00:42:07] loudest reception of any leader. And you
[00:42:10] could literally see it on his face. He
[00:42:12] was kind of looking at this young man
[00:42:14] thinking, hm,
[00:42:17] I, you know, I want to get this type of
[00:42:19] reception. I want to get this type of
[00:42:22] agilation. So since then, Muhammad has
[00:42:25] gone on a radical program in Ghana. And
[00:42:29] so that's what's so impressive about
[00:42:30] Ibrahim Cher. He's not only influencing
[00:42:33] people like myself and the younger
[00:42:35] generation, but he's also influencing
[00:42:38] old statesmen uh that at least now
[00:42:41] trying to adopt revolutionary language,
[00:42:43] anti-imperialist language, uh you know,
[00:42:46] nationalist language, nationalist in a
[00:42:48] positive sense. uh because nationalism
[00:42:51] in country in in countries in the global
[00:42:53] south is completely different to the
[00:42:55] type of nationalism that we see in
[00:42:56] places like Italy and the UK and now in
[00:42:59] the US. This is nationalism that
[00:43:01] encourages people to fight for their
[00:43:03] sovereignty and to fight against the the
[00:43:06] over extanding hand of imperialism.
[00:43:11] >> Yeah. Nationalism in America means like
[00:43:14] racism
[00:43:16] and supporting war and supporting um
[00:43:20] overthrowing governments. Whereas
[00:43:22] nationalism in the global south is
[00:43:24] supporting
[00:43:26] uh worker-led movements, sovereignty
[00:43:31] and um nationalizing resources
[00:43:34] um pushing back against US and Western
[00:43:37] imperialism without a doubt. Um I want
[00:43:39] to play this video. So, um, I know you
[00:43:41] guys are not going to be able to hear,
[00:43:42] but I'm going to play this video and
[00:43:43] I'll say what I'm playing. It's of
[00:43:44] Ibrahim Trayor,
[00:43:47] um,
[00:43:48] talking about, um, the wealth in Africa.
[00:43:52] So, I'm going to play one second.
[00:44:04] in natural generation.
[00:44:41] confront the people.
[00:44:54] >> All right. So that was Ibrahim Chore
[00:44:57] talking about how Africa is so rich, has
[00:45:01] abundant sun, soil and resources and yet
[00:45:05] African leaders are reaching out to
[00:45:09] Western nations and countries for help.
[00:45:12] And why is that? And he wants to change
[00:45:15] that outcome for Africa. And so this man
[00:45:18] obviously needs to be protected at all
[00:45:20] costs just like any other revolutionary
[00:45:23] leader that rises from the ashes to
[00:45:26] defend their nation to defend their
[00:45:29] resources
[00:45:30] to defend their land from occupiers.
[00:45:33] Um, you know, I don't want to
[00:45:38] be the give a grim out out outlook
[00:45:41] to what could happen to Ibrahim Terori,
[00:45:43] but history does tell us that, you know,
[00:45:45] the US and other Western countries like
[00:45:47] Great Britain and France don't take
[00:45:50] these words very lightly and there could
[00:45:53] be things happening on the ground um to
[00:45:56] promote regime change for example and
[00:45:59] that's why you mentioned like they you
[00:46:01] know there's a lot of guards guarding
[00:46:03] his palace or not his palace, his home,
[00:46:05] excuse me, guarding his home, guarding
[00:46:07] him. Uh because people are aware on the
[00:46:10] ground uh to what extent the United
[00:46:12] States and these western countries will
[00:46:14] go to overthrow, assassinate and to
[00:46:17] fulment maybe like a coup on the ground.
[00:46:19] Do you see that do you see that as a
[00:46:21] possibility um in the near future for
[00:46:24] Ibrahim uh Trayori? Either one of you
[00:46:27] guys can answer this question.
[00:46:29] >> I'll jump in just quickly if you don't
[00:46:31] mind, Alex. Sorry. Um I think they're
[00:46:34] going to have to try really hard to do
[00:46:36] that because they put out the feelers
[00:46:40] with uh the head of Afric
[00:46:44] um I forget his name now. Names escaped
[00:46:47] me. Um uh that he
[00:46:50] >> General Michael Langley you're talking
[00:46:52] about.
[00:46:52] >> Yes. Yes. Thank you. General Lang uh
[00:46:55] Michael Langley when he when he made
[00:46:57] this ridiculous statement uh where he
[00:47:00] said that Ibraham Chore is using the
[00:47:04] country's gold reserves for his private
[00:47:07] security. Yeah. Uh it's such a it's such
[00:47:10] a ridiculous thing to say because
[00:47:12] firstly he's the president of a
[00:47:14] sovereign nation. Secondly, there's been
[00:47:16] several assassination attempts on him.
[00:47:18] So using the using money the state's
[00:47:21] resources
[00:47:23] uh for security is a legitimate thing to
[00:47:25] do. Has anyone seen the US president how
[00:47:27] much is spent on his security? Whenever
[00:47:30] they fly whenever a US president flies
[00:47:32] somewhere there's always like how many
[00:47:35] accompanying Fighter jets and
[00:47:38] helicopters and whatnot. How much does
[00:47:39] that cost? Does that not come out of the
[00:47:41] state budget? So it was a ridiculous
[00:47:42] thing to say anyway. But what was
[00:47:44] brilliant and actually in my 36 years on
[00:47:48] earth, it was the proudest moment I've
[00:47:50] had as an African was the mobilization
[00:47:53] that happened around the world. We had
[00:47:56] protests in London, in Jamaica, in the
[00:48:00] US,
[00:48:01] in Spain, in France, literally in in uh
[00:48:06] in Nigeria there was a protest, but
[00:48:08] before they could before they could get
[00:48:09] going, they got arrested. Um uh but in
[00:48:13] South Africa literally the whole African
[00:48:16] global community came out and that was
[00:48:19] of that small thing that General Michael
[00:48:22] Langley said. Now imagine if they were
[00:48:25] to dare, you know, try put this person
[00:48:28] on house arrest or god forbid try take
[00:48:30] him out. There would be riots in every
[00:48:33] major city in the world. Um so I think
[00:48:36] that was a little feeler that they put
[00:48:37] out. Let let Michael Langley say
[00:48:39] something. let uh Uncle Tom um you know,
[00:48:43] House Negro say something. Let's see how
[00:48:45] it how it plays out. And they got an
[00:48:48] emphatic response by the global African
[00:48:51] community.
[00:48:54] It's interesting the way you framed that
[00:48:55] question Manar about, you know, a coup
[00:48:57] in the near future because there was
[00:48:59] actually a coup attempt that Trrowy
[00:49:01] survived in the near past which happened
[00:49:03] in April and it was just days after
[00:49:06] General Langley uh spoke before the
[00:49:08] Senate and accused Trrowery of allowing
[00:49:12] Russia and China both to gain a foothold
[00:49:15] in Africa through Burkina Faso, which is
[00:49:18] actually kind of a similar accusation as
[00:49:20] uh African stream and boom press gets.
[00:49:22] thrown at them constantly that we're,
[00:49:25] you know, the dupes of foreign powers.
[00:49:27] And yet, only a few days after Langley
[00:49:29] said this, um there was a potentially a
[00:49:33] foreign orchestrated coup attempt in the
[00:49:35] country that uh did not succeed because
[00:49:38] um it was found out quickly and there
[00:49:40] was also a very uh large popular
[00:49:43] presence against that. So, you know,
[00:49:45] frankly, this is the sort of thing you
[00:49:47] have to deal with if you are a
[00:49:48] revolutionary leader. Fidel Castro
[00:49:51] famously he survived more than 600 uh
[00:49:54] American attempts on his life during his
[00:49:56] lifetime and died uh at an old age. Uh
[00:50:00] President Nicholas Maduro and before him
[00:50:02] President Hugo Chavez in Venezuela had
[00:50:04] to survive multiple coup attempts which
[00:50:06] I know actually ahmed knows a fair
[00:50:08] amount about as well. Um so this is just
[00:50:11] part for the course when you are a
[00:50:13] revolutionary leader. If you stand up to
[00:50:16] uh the United States, expect uh to have
[00:50:18] to dodge some punches.
[00:50:24] 100 100%. It's the there's a famous
[00:50:27] quote by Samora Michelle um uh where he
[00:50:31] says,
[00:50:33] "If they praise me, know that I betrayed
[00:50:36] you.
[00:50:38] And if they talk
[00:50:41] >> and if they talk about me bad, know that
[00:50:42] I was I served you well. Um so the these
[00:50:46] guys know what they're what they're
[00:50:48] getting into. Um and that's why, you
[00:50:51] know, we love it. Uh and we completely
[00:50:54] understand it, but you know, he doesn't
[00:50:55] go into a meeting without the without
[00:50:57] the gun holster on display. Uh so some
[00:51:01] people say it's a bit disrespectful, but
[00:51:03] no, we understand. And we've had too
[00:51:04] many leaders assassinated. Go into every
[00:51:07] single meeting with that gun strapped to
[00:51:10] your waist. Uh that leave leave no leave
[00:51:14] nothing unturned.
[00:51:16] >> I mean they they tried to disarm, you
[00:51:18] know, the Black Panthers. They were
[00:51:20] always, you know, showing their their
[00:51:22] rifles and their their guns. People look
[00:51:24] at that and say, "Oh, they're violent."
[00:51:26] But actually, it was in self-defense
[00:51:27] because so many African-American leaders
[00:51:29] were assassinated and targeted.
[00:51:32] >> Yeah. And on a national level, of
[00:51:34] course, uh it was only when uh Libyan
[00:51:37] leader uh Colonel Gaddafi actually gave
[00:51:39] up his uh weapons of mass destruction
[00:51:42] and his forces that he was attacked by
[00:51:43] NATO and overthrown in 2011. So there's
[00:51:46] uh there's a lesson there as well.
[00:51:49] >> Yeah. And I brought I brought I brought
[00:51:51] up the Black Panthers. I know it's not
[00:51:53] an a foreign uh policy um story, but
[00:51:56] it's like the same struggle here that
[00:51:58] many people can relate to in the United
[00:52:00] States when looking at, you know,
[00:52:02] revolutionary leaders. Why are they
[00:52:03] holding their rifles and their guns and
[00:52:05] why, you know, why is that? It's because
[00:52:08] they are the target of these
[00:52:09] assassination campaigns. Um, and you
[00:52:13] know, I wish we had so much more much
[00:52:15] more time to talk about all of these
[00:52:16] issues, but let's let's move on to um to
[00:52:20] talk about Gaza because it's such a
[00:52:22] horrific genocide. All genocides are
[00:52:25] horrific obviously, but you know, this
[00:52:26] one's being live streamed in 4K, this
[00:52:29] genocide in Gaza, and it's like every
[00:52:31] single day that goes by when you think
[00:52:33] you've just seen the worst to come out
[00:52:35] of Gaz, it just keeps getting worse and
[00:52:38] worse and worse. And you know, we've
[00:52:41] obviously covered a lot of uh war issues
[00:52:44] in the past in our in nearly 14 years uh
[00:52:48] being a media outlet in the United
[00:52:50] States, but this one is obviously very
[00:52:52] close to home to myself, especially I'm
[00:52:54] I'm Palestinian American. I am a
[00:52:56] survivor of Israeli occupation and
[00:52:58] apartheid. But what's happening in Gaza
[00:53:01] is something that we in the West Bank or
[00:53:04] in Jerusalem and alud have never really
[00:53:06] seen this extent of uh bloodshed. It's
[00:53:09] completely horrific. Um but for a lot of
[00:53:14] us that are following this we've you
[00:53:16] know have been have felt a little bit of
[00:53:18] hope coming actually out of Africa
[00:53:20] because much of the strongest resistance
[00:53:23] to the Israeli genocide in Gaz is
[00:53:26] actually coming from South Africa. South
[00:53:28] Africa is leading a case at the
[00:53:30] international uh court of justice
[00:53:34] against Israel and has been backed by a
[00:53:36] number of African countries including
[00:53:39] Zimbabwe including Algeria, Namibia and
[00:53:42] the Koros. So what is the status um of
[00:53:47] this case Ahmed and why is it South
[00:53:49] Africa specifically that is leading the
[00:53:51] international struggle against apartheid
[00:53:54] Israel and its genocide?
[00:53:58] Um obviously there's the the history. Um
[00:54:02] so there's two things. Firstly, the
[00:54:05] South Africans recognize what's
[00:54:07] happening in in in Palestine in general
[00:54:10] very closely because of their own
[00:54:12] experience.
[00:54:14] But also Israel played a pivotal role in
[00:54:18] supporting the apartheite regime in
[00:54:20] South Africa. Once the boycott
[00:54:23] international boycott movement was on
[00:54:25] the way, Israel was continuing to
[00:54:27] provide financial support and continue
[00:54:30] to do trade with the apartheite regime.
[00:54:32] So there's obviously that. Um then the
[00:54:35] the the both liberation struggles uh
[00:54:38] used to train side by side in places
[00:54:41] like Tunisia.
[00:54:42] uh so you know he can understand what's
[00:54:45] going on in in in in Palestine and
[00:54:48] understand settler colonialism as being
[00:54:51] a victim of settler colonialism. Um but
[00:54:55] I I have to be a bit cynical as well. Um
[00:54:59] this ANC government um in South Africa
[00:55:02] isn't very popular at all. um you know
[00:55:05] especially amongst the black masses who
[00:55:09] you know they didn't want the settler
[00:55:11] colonial regime to end because they
[00:55:12] wanted one man one vote they wanted
[00:55:14] their land back and here we are 30 years
[00:55:18] after the end of apartheite and most
[00:55:21] black South Africans are still landless
[00:55:23] the economy is still controlled by um by
[00:55:28] you know the white minority uh white
[00:55:30] monopoly capital as they refer to it in
[00:55:32] South African circles Uh so this was
[00:55:35] this was also a a way for the South
[00:55:39] African government to reestablish its
[00:55:42] radical credentials because for 30 years
[00:55:46] um it's kind of been seen as a
[00:55:47] neoliberal
[00:55:49] uh government uh you know that has been
[00:55:52] collaborating with not not doing
[00:55:55] anything to redistribute the wealth and
[00:55:58] disrupt white monopoly capital but in
[00:56:01] many ways collaborating with it. uh
[00:56:03] Ramaposa who's the president is one of
[00:56:04] the richest men in South Africa and he's
[00:56:07] got many many business deals with the
[00:56:10] the white European elite uh that control
[00:56:12] the economy. Um but yeah that that's an
[00:56:16] attempt of of nuance you know there's
[00:56:18] there's the history but there is also as
[00:56:20] as always the case there's always
[00:56:23] politics so the rest of the countries in
[00:56:25] suffering Africa I think it's more
[00:56:27] genuine so Nibia has been very vocal
[00:56:30] that was also settled colonial regime uh
[00:56:33] settled colonial regime from Germany
[00:56:36] again they understand the struggle
[00:56:38] Zimbabwe uh was known as as uh Rhodesia
[00:56:43] had another settler uh uh settler
[00:56:46] colonial regime. Um so in southern
[00:56:48] Africa you'll see so much support in
[00:56:50] particular for Palestinian resistance
[00:56:53] and for the Palestinian struggle because
[00:56:55] that is where the settler colonial
[00:56:57] project was strongest in Africa. Um and
[00:57:00] so the the similarities are there. Um
[00:57:04] but yeah in in in in other parts of
[00:57:06] Africa in places like Kenya um it's the
[00:57:10] opposite sadly. So William R straight
[00:57:14] straight after October the 7th obviously
[00:57:16] made a very damning statement against
[00:57:18] Hamas. Um he's been very vocal in his
[00:57:21] support for Israel and there's a history
[00:57:24] here. So under Donald Trump's first term
[00:57:28] um when Uhuru Kenyata was the president
[00:57:31] there was a trade agreement a document
[00:57:34] between um Israel sorry between
[00:57:38] there was a bit of a Freudian slip US
[00:57:40] and Kenya um and in that trade agreement
[00:57:45] it said that Kenya cannot participate in
[00:57:48] any shape or form with BDS. So you have
[00:57:51] to ask yourself why why is there a trade
[00:57:55] agreement between an African nation and
[00:57:58] the and the largest economy on the
[00:57:59] planet predicated or having having a
[00:58:03] conditionality on BDS in there and this
[00:58:07] go this goes to show the role that
[00:58:09] Israel plays within the African
[00:58:11] continent. What is what what Israel what
[00:58:14] what Israel represents within the
[00:58:16] African continent is are you a reliable
[00:58:20] partner for imperialism? Yeah. In my
[00:58:23] country of Sudan, we were a state
[00:58:25] sponsor of terror. We listed as a state
[00:58:28] sponsor of terror. In 2020, in the
[00:58:31] leadup to the US elections, there was
[00:58:33] negotiations to lift this designation
[00:58:36] um of the state sponsor of terror. Now
[00:58:38] in all of the negotiations
[00:58:41] the Israel wasn't mentioned and then
[00:58:43] right at the last minute Donald Trump
[00:58:46] said if you want this state sponsor a
[00:58:48] terror designation you have to normalize
[00:58:51] relations with Israel. Now at the time
[00:58:54] Sudan had a transitional civilian
[00:58:56] government that was that was sharing
[00:58:58] power with the military junter. The the
[00:59:01] transitional civilian government said
[00:59:03] this isn't a decision for us to make.
[00:59:05] this is a decision for an elected
[00:59:07] government in the future. Uh but the US
[00:59:10] said, "Okay, well then then we're going
[00:59:12] to continue this. We're going to
[00:59:13] continue sanctions." So eventually they
[00:59:16] they submitted um and signed that that
[00:59:19] peace agreement uh you know the the
[00:59:21] so-called Abraham Accords again to that
[00:59:25] Israel represents symbolism. If you can
[00:59:28] normalize relations with Israel, then
[00:59:30] you are a trusted partner in a region
[00:59:34] where you know the Russia and China are
[00:59:36] seem to have influence. The US is
[00:59:38] looking for client states um and and and
[00:59:41] and recognizing and normalizing and
[00:59:44] signing trade agreements that you won't
[00:59:46] participate in BDS shows that you're
[00:59:49] more likely to be a trusted state and
[00:59:51] less likely to be a Zimbabwe or a South
[00:59:54] Africa or a Namibia.
[00:59:57] Yeah, I guess we at Mint Press have uh
[00:59:59] we designated Kenya as the US's African
[01:00:02] outpost because of course Kenya was uh
[01:00:04] really the face the veneer of the
[01:00:07] repression of the Haiti revolts. The
[01:00:09] United States has three military bases
[01:00:11] across Kenya of course and uh from Kenya
[01:00:15] they use that to target Somalia in
[01:00:18] bombing operations which Ahmed talked
[01:00:20] about earlier. President R invited King
[01:00:22] Charles III to Kenya despite the country
[01:00:25] fighting a bitter war of uh independence
[01:00:28] against the UK and suffering terrible
[01:00:30] massacres and terrible human rights
[01:00:32] violations uh from the British. Uh R,
[01:00:37] the president has also really obediently
[01:00:39] followed IMF orders imposing unpopular
[01:00:41] taxes on the population to pay back his
[01:00:44] pay masters in Europe and uh and the
[01:00:47] United States. So, you know, it's it's a
[01:00:50] pretty bad situation over there
[01:00:52] politically for Kenya. But, uh, yeah,
[01:00:54] it's a really mixed bag when it comes to
[01:00:56] that continent. We've got people in the
[01:00:58] Sahel region, which uh suddenly has
[01:01:01] become the most interesting and radical
[01:01:03] and inspiring place perhaps on the
[01:01:05] planet. And yet, there are other uh
[01:01:07] cases there which uh, you know, begger
[01:01:09] belief about how corrupt and how
[01:01:12] miserable the situation is politically.
[01:01:19] And is it possible that we do talk about
[01:01:23] Morocco kind of as our last uh
[01:01:27] point of topic here? Because when
[01:01:29] talking about uh Israeli influence on
[01:01:32] African nations, um I think one of the
[01:01:36] most destructive relationships we've
[01:01:38] seen has been the one between Africa,
[01:01:40] excuse me, uh Israel and Morocco because
[01:01:43] it's kind of just right there by the
[01:01:45] Sahil uh where this resistance is taking
[01:01:48] place against US, French, and Israeli uh
[01:01:52] colonialism and imperialism. But then
[01:01:54] you have Israel building this military
[01:01:58] alliance with uh Morocco um specifically
[01:02:02] to deter and push back against that
[01:02:04] resistance in the Sahel. Uh but also to
[01:02:08] build its largest um uh weapons uh
[01:02:14] weapons company Elbert Systems because
[01:02:16] right now across the UK Elbert Systems
[01:02:19] has been the target of of course
[01:02:20] Palestine Action. and Palestinian Aken
[01:02:22] has now been procribed as a terrorist
[01:02:24] organization, but I think we'll still
[01:02:25] see more resistance. But on the ground
[01:02:28] in Morocco, I would say the majority of
[01:02:30] the population does not support this
[01:02:32] relationship, this this this uh
[01:02:35] connection between Israel and um
[01:02:38] Morocco. I mean, just yesterday, we saw
[01:02:40] one of the largest protests and marches
[01:02:43] in Morocco in its capital. Hundreds of
[01:02:45] thousands of people took to the streets
[01:02:47] to detest uh Morocco's alliance with
[01:02:50] Israel.
[01:02:51] and asking Morocco, demanding Morocco um
[01:02:55] stop uh its alliance with the state of
[01:02:58] Israel and to assist in the siege, the
[01:03:01] illegal siege that Israel has imposed on
[01:03:02] Gaza. So, I'm curious to know more about
[01:03:05] the relationship between Morocco and
[01:03:07] Israel and what damage this is causing
[01:03:09] in the African continent and you know,
[01:03:12] if you could just tell us more about
[01:03:13] that. Um Ahmed.
[01:03:16] >> Sure. Sure. So, there's a there's a key
[01:03:18] point that needs to be added. Um, it's
[01:03:21] also about the Morocco Israel connection
[01:03:24] is also about Western Sahara. So, uh,
[01:03:27] Morocco is illegally occupying Western
[01:03:30] Sahara. Um, and Western Sahara off the
[01:03:34] off the coast of Western Sahara is some
[01:03:36] of the richest fishing waters in the
[01:03:38] world. Uh, which Morocco gives access to
[01:03:40] the EU to. Um but most of the world
[01:03:44] doesn't recognize um Morocco's illegal
[01:03:48] annexation or occupation of Western
[01:03:51] Sahara. So part of the the Abraham
[01:03:53] Accords was if Morocco normalizes
[01:03:58] relations with Israel, the US will then
[01:04:01] move towards recognition of Western
[01:04:04] Sahara as part of Morocco. And obviously
[01:04:07] Israel's uh Israel would recognize
[01:04:09] Western Sahara as part of Morocco. Um,
[01:04:11] so this is a key part of of of the
[01:04:14] story. Um, um, you know, and it just
[01:04:17] goes to show how these struggles are
[01:04:19] interrelated. Um, and this is obviously
[01:04:22] a key uh part of friction between
[01:04:24] Algeria and Morocco cuz Algeria not only
[01:04:28] supports Pal the Palestinian uh right to
[01:04:31] self-determination, it also supports uh
[01:04:34] the people of Western Sahara's right to
[01:04:36] self-determination as well. Um, and so
[01:04:38] that's what they're constantly clashing.
[01:04:41] um about uh but yeah, Morocco it it is
[01:04:46] you know a a combination of a an EU
[01:04:49] client state within the African
[01:04:51] continent and a US client state within
[01:04:54] the African continent. And you're right
[01:04:56] to say that the the population
[01:04:58] um doesn't at all uh approve of this.
[01:05:02] You know, some of the best view some of
[01:05:04] the best footage we've seen of
[01:05:06] solidarity have come from the football
[01:05:08] stadiums in Morocco. uh some of their
[01:05:10] chants, you know, it can bring tears to
[01:05:13] your eyes. Uh some of the things that
[01:05:15] they say, you know, in the stadiums and
[01:05:17] it's the whole stadium. It's not like a
[01:05:19] segment with one Palestine flag. It's
[01:05:20] the whole stadium uh in unison uh you
[01:05:24] know, decrying their government and and
[01:05:26] and and saying, you know, how they're
[01:05:28] all Palestinian. So it's a sad state of
[01:05:31] sad state of affairs and it's and it's
[01:05:33] sad that you know uh geopolitics
[01:05:36] is being played uh at the expense of the
[01:05:40] people of Palestine and the peace people
[01:05:42] of Western Sahara. Alan, um, of course
[01:05:45] we talked a lot about, um, Israel and US
[01:05:49] imperialism inside of Africa, but we
[01:05:52] can't forget about the French and the
[01:05:54] British and of course the role that the
[01:05:56] IMF and World Bank plays in keeping
[01:06:00] these countries chained to modern-day
[01:06:03] colonialism. I know this is kind of more
[01:06:05] of a general question, but could you
[01:06:07] maybe elaborate more on some current
[01:06:09] examples, modern day examples of how um
[01:06:13] this still is a problem in the African
[01:06:15] continent?
[01:06:19] >> Yeah, sure. It's an age-old problem.
[01:06:20] It's an age-old phenomenon that's been
[01:06:22] going on for decades ever since the end
[01:06:24] of World War II and the uh the uh postc
[01:06:27] colonial era where in the 1950s60s and
[01:06:30] '7s African states gained formal
[01:06:33] independence but they didn't really ever
[01:06:35] gain economic independence most of them
[01:06:38] anyway as Ahmed talked about earlier a
[01:06:41] lot of countries in western Africa still
[01:06:43] use the the uh CA CFA Frank which is a
[01:06:47] currency which is pretty much more or
[01:06:49] less completely controlled uh by Paris,
[01:06:52] which gives France an an enormous
[01:06:54] exorbitant privilege all over Western
[01:06:57] Africa to dictate these countries
[01:07:00] economies and set those societies in uh
[01:07:03] a direction that is made to be serving
[01:07:06] France and serving the EU. The age-old
[01:07:09] story is that uh western countries see
[01:07:13] revolutionary leaders like Patrice
[01:07:15] Lumumba, like Thomas Sankara and they
[01:07:18] try to take these uh rulers out because
[01:07:20] of what they're saying. They're saying
[01:07:22] that the resources of Africa should be
[01:07:24] used to help the African people. And
[01:07:26] they do that. They ferment coups. They
[01:07:30] uh bring in seriously unpopular military
[01:07:32] dictators. And then they ply these
[01:07:35] dictators with huge loans from the IMF
[01:07:37] and the World Bank. And these corrupt
[01:07:39] dictators use that money to go around
[01:07:41] and buy Western weapons in order to
[01:07:44] entrench themselves in power. And these
[01:07:47] countries get more and more in debt. And
[01:07:50] finally, maybe a couple of decades
[01:07:51] later, the people managed to rise up
[01:07:53] finally and uh rid themselves of these
[01:07:56] dictators. but they're not ridding
[01:07:58] themselves of the uh western debt that
[01:08:01] these dictators have accured. And so
[01:08:04] even though they are now formerly
[01:08:06] independent and have perhaps uh more
[01:08:08] nationalistic uh rulers, they're still
[01:08:11] trapped into a cycle of poverty and debt
[01:08:14] because of this uh servicing that they
[01:08:16] have to do whereby Western corporations
[01:08:19] fleece and um take huge amounts,
[01:08:22] trillions uh every decade out of Africa
[01:08:26] and uh drop it into the pockets of uh
[01:08:29] big financeers in Paris, in London, in
[01:08:32] Brussels and in Washington DC and this
[01:08:34] is the big uh picture of what's going on
[01:08:37] and the way to break that of course is
[01:08:40] not only to study it but also we need
[01:08:42] African unity whereby countries come
[01:08:45] together and form a united front against
[01:08:48] uh against imperialism whether it's
[01:08:50] political or economic and they say we
[01:08:53] are not going to be uh paying these
[01:08:55] anymore uh they're going to come
[01:08:58] together and uh yeah uh provide a much
[01:09:01] better future because as Ahmed has been
[01:09:03] saying uh many times now and Ibrahim
[01:09:05] Trayori we heard earlier say Africa is
[01:09:08] not a poor continent. It's actually a
[01:09:10] very rich continent. It has been
[01:09:12] deliberately underdeveloped for
[01:09:13] centuries
[01:09:15] uh in order to uh serve as a a material
[01:09:20] base for western countries like the
[01:09:22] United States and those states in
[01:09:24] Western Europe. And that fundamentally
[01:09:27] has got to change. That is the
[01:09:29] relationship that absolutely has to be
[01:09:31] broken if Africa is going to remove its
[01:09:34] chains and rise properly uh to the place
[01:09:36] it should be. Just um to wrap it up
[01:09:39] here, I think a lot of uh people who
[01:09:41] might still feel a little bit confused
[01:09:43] about these issues would would perhaps
[01:09:45] argue, okay, well, we push out US
[01:09:47] imperialism, but aren't these African
[01:09:50] nations um putting themselves in a trap
[01:09:52] because now they're going to Russia and
[01:09:54] China just two other um you know, big
[01:09:58] world leaders. What is what is your
[01:10:00] response to that?
[01:10:02] >> I'm glad you asked me that question. Um
[01:10:06] before the European colonial project in
[01:10:09] Africa, Africa was doing trade with
[01:10:12] other countries in the world. We were
[01:10:14] trading with India. We were trading with
[01:10:16] China. Now I hate to use this analogy,
[01:10:21] but it's almost like when someone is in
[01:10:25] a an abusive relationship
[01:10:27] and you got that kind of friend that
[01:10:29] says to hell with men or to hell with
[01:10:32] women. No, you were just in an abusive
[01:10:34] relationship with that man or that
[01:10:37] woman. Um, and because we were in an
[01:10:40] abusive relationship with European
[01:10:43] colonialist and with Western
[01:10:44] imperialism, it doesn't mean we should
[01:10:47] be insular and cut ourselves off from
[01:10:49] the rest of the world. That is a fast
[01:10:52] track to nowhere. Yeah. So, we we need
[01:10:55] to do trade. We just need to do trade
[01:10:58] from a position of strength and and do
[01:11:01] trade uh from a position of uh
[01:11:04] reciprocity. Um so it shouldn't be um
[01:11:08] you know an exploitative relationship.
[01:11:11] And the only way we can stop it from
[01:11:12] being an exploitative relationship is if
[01:11:15] as Alan mentioned is if we unite and we
[01:11:18] say that you know you can't pick us off
[01:11:21] oneonone pick us off against each other.
[01:11:24] Um, you can't say to Chad, "If you don't
[01:11:28] do a trade agreement with us, then we're
[01:11:30] going to go to Central African Republic
[01:11:31] and essential African Republic. If we
[01:11:33] don't do a trade agreement with us,
[01:11:34] we're going to go to Uganda." If we come
[01:11:37] with a unified position, that way we'll
[01:11:39] get the best deal possible. We see
[01:11:41] that's what happens with the EU. The EU
[01:11:44] doesn't negotiate as Germany, as France,
[01:11:46] as Belgium. They re they they negotiate
[01:11:49] as the European Union block. Um and so
[01:11:52] that's what we argue as revolutionary
[01:11:54] panafricanist
[01:11:56] that you know we need to do trade with
[01:11:58] the rest of the world but we need to do
[01:12:00] it from a position of strength and the
[01:12:02] only way we can do that is if we unite
[01:12:04] our economic power if we unite our
[01:12:07] military power and we unite our
[01:12:09] political power. Um but yeah people are
[01:12:12] right to have reservations. Um but but
[01:12:15] but they they're not right into saying
[01:12:18] that, you know, Africa doesn't need
[01:12:20] anyone else and we just need to trade
[01:12:21] with each other. That doesn't lead
[01:12:23] anywhere.
[01:12:26] >> Well, and I as we see
[01:12:29] >> I think you have to just mute yourself
[01:12:30] one more time as we as we as we see that
[01:12:33] you know as China's pulling people out
[01:12:36] of poverty, they're not sending in their
[01:12:37] troops to overthrow a government whereas
[01:12:40] the United States does do that kind of
[01:12:42] stuff. Um, always an imperialist state,
[01:12:46] >> will forever be an imperialist state.
[01:12:48] But um, anyways, gentlemen, thank you so
[01:12:50] much for joining me today. I wish we had
[01:12:52] more time. I I really wanted to expand
[01:12:54] more on the Sahel versus the Sahara
[01:12:57] also, but we didn't get a chance to do
[01:12:58] that. So, maybe we can do that for
[01:12:59] another conversation. Uh, both of you um
[01:13:03] hold such a wealth of knowledge and I
[01:13:05] really appreciate you being here. I've
[01:13:06] learned so much from both of you. Thank
[01:13:09] you so much.
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