Untitled Document

[00:00:00] Well, it's time to rejoice. They say [00:00:03] there is peace in the Middle East. The [00:00:05] bombs have stopped falling. The hostages [00:00:08] have been exchanged. And the politicians [00:00:10] are shaking hands for the cameras. But [00:00:13] tell me, how can there be peace without [00:00:16] justice? How can we move on? How can we [00:00:19] let bygones be bygones when one of the [00:00:22] worst genocides of modern times was just [00:00:25] livereamed before our eyes? Entire [00:00:28] families erased, journalists executed, [00:00:32] aid workers targeted, children starved, [00:00:35] and now as the world tries to move on, [00:00:38] the perpetrators walk free while [00:00:41] truthtellers are jailed. This is not [00:00:43] peace. This is impunity disguised as [00:00:46] diplomacy. And accountability, real [00:00:49] accountability, must begin now in the [00:00:52] HEG. President Donald Trump and the [00:00:54] corporate media want you to believe that [00:00:56] the Gaza ceasefire deal is the dawn of a [00:00:59] new era. We're told to celebrate the [00:01:01] images of the final 20 Israeli prisoners [00:01:04] being released, always called hostages [00:01:07] in the media after 2 years of barbaric [00:01:10] Hamas captivity, they say. But wait, [00:01:13] even NBC admitted that Matan Argarist [00:01:16] was kidnapped from his tank. Kidnapped [00:01:19] from a tank. You can't call an armed [00:01:23] soldier operating a killing machine a [00:01:26] kidnap victim. That's called being a [00:01:29] captive of war. Still, Israeli crowds [00:01:33] fill city squares to celebrate their [00:01:35] release. While the same media that [00:01:38] plastered their faces everywhere barely [00:01:41] whispered that 2,000 Palestinian [00:01:44] political prisoners and hostages are [00:01:48] also being freed as part of the same [00:01:50] deal. 20 Israelis dominated global [00:01:54] headlines. 2,000 Palestinians are just a [00:01:58] footnote. That's not journalism. That's [00:02:01] manufactured consent for apartheid. More [00:02:04] than 1,700 of those freed Palestinians [00:02:08] were abducted from Gaz over the past two [00:02:11] years by the IDF. Many never even [00:02:15] charged without any crime. Yet there was [00:02:18] no worldwide outcry, no senators [00:02:21] demanding their release, no hashtags, no [00:02:25] candlelight vigils. Over 10,000 [00:02:28] Palestinians still rot in Israeli [00:02:31] prisons today, including community [00:02:34] leaders, students, elected officials, [00:02:38] 400 children, nearly half of those [00:02:42] people, without trial or conviction. And [00:02:46] Israel still refuses to return hundreds [00:02:49] of bodies of those it has killed. Why [00:02:53] keep their remains? What are they trying [00:02:55] to hide? What have they done to them? [00:03:00] Such is life under a genocidal apartheid [00:03:04] regime. And when the Israeli captives [00:03:07] returned home, they appeared wellfed and [00:03:10] in good spirits. But Palestinian [00:03:13] prisoners, many came back emaciated, [00:03:16] gaunt, trembling, visibly broken, like [00:03:19] survivors of a concentration camp. and [00:03:23] even their famil family's joy was [00:03:25] criminalized. When Palestinians gathered [00:03:28] outside of the Ofair prison near Ramla [00:03:30] to welcome their loved ones, the Israeli [00:03:32] military dropped warning leaflets, [00:03:35] threatening them, ordering the crowd to [00:03:37] disperse, then fired tear gas and rubber [00:03:40] bullets into them. Not a moment spared [00:03:44] to continue the trauma. Now imagine if [00:03:47] it was reversed. If Palestinian gunmen [00:03:50] open fire on Israelis welcoming home [00:03:52] prisoners, the world would completely [00:03:56] erupt. But when Israel does it, there's [00:03:59] complete silence. Such is life under a [00:04:02] genocidal apartheid regime. And for 2 [00:04:05] years, Israel's mighty military couldn't [00:04:10] subdue Gaza. a tiny strip of land under [00:04:13] siege for decades, cut off from food, [00:04:17] from water, from medicine, from the [00:04:19] entire world. And as the Alasam brigade [00:04:23] said, the enemy failed to retrieve its [00:04:26] captives through military pressure. [00:04:28] Despite its intelligence, superiority, [00:04:30] and overwhelming power, now it is forced [00:04:33] to recover them through a prisoner [00:04:35] exchange deal, just as the resistance [00:04:38] promised from the beginning. Even more [00:04:41] revealing, the ceasefire agreement [00:04:43] forces Israel to lift its blockade on [00:04:46] food and supplies into the same blockade [00:04:50] it spent years denying existed. We were [00:04:54] told it was a myth that Israel allows [00:04:57] aid in, but we all know the truth. And [00:05:01] yet, with the stroke of a pen, they [00:05:03] admitted it. Now Trump has flown in for [00:05:07] the cameras to claim credit for ending [00:05:09] the war. He stood before the Kineset, [00:05:12] smiling beside billionaire Israel [00:05:15] lobbyist Miriam Eden, [00:05:18] joking about her $60 billion fortune and [00:05:22] her late husband Sheldon Eden's power. [00:05:26] He even bragged that he once asked her, [00:05:30] "What do you love more, the United [00:05:31] States or Israel?" and she refused to [00:05:34] answer. If anyone else said that, they'd [00:05:37] be destroyed, fired, smeared, silenced. [00:05:41] But Trump, he just says that out loud. [00:05:45] And he flew into Cairo to meet President [00:05:49] Cece and finalized this so-called peace [00:05:52] plan. But this deal isn't peace [00:05:56] when you are dealing with the [00:05:58] collaborators of the genocide, the [00:06:01] access of assistance. These are the [00:06:04] people that rubber stamped Israel's [00:06:07] theft, the normalization of genocide, [00:06:10] the annexation, the eraser of Palestine [00:06:14] from the map. And where are the Arab [00:06:17] leaders? the same ones who waved the [00:06:19] Palestinian flag in speeches but quietly [00:06:22] helped enable two years of slaughter. [00:06:26] They have disgraced their people and the [00:06:28] entire region. They created land [00:06:32] corridors for Israel so that Israel can [00:06:35] circumvent the Red Sea blockade and [00:06:38] receive their shipments in full. They [00:06:41] have collaborated with the occupier [00:06:43] while Gaz burned. The blood is on their [00:06:46] hands, too. And for Trump, Gaza is not a [00:06:50] tragedy. It's a real estate opportunity. [00:06:53] He's already eyeing beachfront [00:06:55] developments on the rubble and the [00:06:58] skeletons of the world's largest open [00:07:00] air prison. Instead of sending [00:07:02] diplomats, he sends developers Jared [00:07:06] Kushner and Steve Witkoff to oversee [00:07:09] what's left of Gaz. They're joined by [00:07:12] Israeli officials expanding illegal [00:07:15] settlements and grabbing land in Gaz and [00:07:18] Syria alike. Beneath the ashes lie [00:07:22] billions in offshore gas reserves, and [00:07:26] they all want a piece of that cake. For [00:07:30] them, Gaz is just a gold mine. But for [00:07:34] us Palestinians, it's our home that has [00:07:38] now turned into ashes. But let's be [00:07:41] clear, this genocide didn't just expose [00:07:45] Israel's crimes. It exposed the entire [00:07:48] system that protects them. Our so-called [00:07:51] democracies proved how easily they can [00:07:54] become fascist when their empire is [00:07:57] threatened. They censored journalists, [00:07:59] deplatformed activists, criminalized [00:08:02] protest, and called it security. Look at [00:08:06] Palestine action in the UK. Activists [00:08:09] who shut down weapons factories, [00:08:12] supplying Israel with the weapons and [00:08:15] the parts [00:08:17] so they can drop bombs on our children. [00:08:21] They're sitting in prison cells right [00:08:23] now for exposing and opposing genocide. [00:08:26] Meanwhile, the war criminals who armed [00:08:29] Israel, funded the bombs, and justified [00:08:32] the slaughter on TV, will they walk [00:08:35] free? This is the new reality. The [00:08:38] empire will jail you for resisting [00:08:40] genocide while rewarding those who [00:08:43] commit it. This is why accountability [00:08:45] matters. Because if we let this pass, if [00:08:48] we allow this genocide to fade into the [00:08:51] rear view mirror, we are saying do it [00:08:54] again. For two years, we witnessed [00:08:56] genocide live streamed on our phones. [00:09:00] And most of our politicians and pundits [00:09:02] cheered it on. They called the murder of [00:09:05] children self-defense. They called [00:09:07] starvation counterterrorism. They called [00:09:10] resistance [00:09:12] terror. Gaz has unmasked the empire, [00:09:15] completely lifting the veil. There are [00:09:19] no moral limits. It won't cross. No [00:09:23] crimes too horrific for it to justify. [00:09:26] No amount of blood too much for it to [00:09:28] wash its hands on. But also unmask [00:09:32] something else. Us. The people who [00:09:35] refuse to stay silent. Those who march, [00:09:38] who speak out, who disrupt, who [00:09:41] organize, who boycott, those who say not [00:09:45] in our name, not with our taxes, and not [00:09:49] ever again. This genocide must be [00:09:52] remembered not as an isolated atrocity [00:09:55] but as a warning and accountability must [00:09:58] not just come for the bombers but for [00:10:02] the banks, the media and the politicians [00:10:05] who made it possible. Because until [00:10:09] there is justice, until there is [00:10:11] accountability, there will be no peace. [00:10:15] I'm Manar Adi and this is Behind the [00:10:18] Headlines. [00:10:20] All right. Well, I'm excited to bring on [00:10:22] our first guest today, which is Aaron [00:10:24] Mate. He is an award-winning [00:10:26] investigative journalist at the Greyzone [00:10:28] and on Substack, and he's also the [00:10:30] co-host of Useful idiots podcast with [00:10:33] Katie Halper. Erin, thank you so much [00:10:35] for joining us today. [00:10:37] >> Manar, great to be with you. [00:10:39] >> Well, I want to first uh start by asking [00:10:42] you about the ceasefire deal. We've seen [00:10:44] Israel release almost 2,000 Palestinians [00:10:47] in exchange for 20 Israelis. What's your [00:10:50] reaction to the news of this ceasefire? [00:10:53] And do you think that this represents a [00:10:54] win for Israel or Hamas? [00:10:59] Well, my I have a lot of thoughts. Look, [00:11:02] by definition, any end to the genocide, [00:11:05] if this is indeed what it is, and with [00:11:07] Israel, you never know because they have [00:11:08] a long record of violating every deal [00:11:10] that they enter into, whether it's in [00:11:12] Gaza or Lebanon or uh the West Bank. Uh [00:11:16] but if this is indeed an end to the [00:11:18] genocide, then that's by definition a [00:11:20] welcome development because what's been [00:11:22] happening to the people of Gaza the last [00:11:24] two years is just unimaginable. I can't [00:11:27] even put it into words. So if that phase [00:11:30] of their torment is over, then that's [00:11:33] good. But aside from that, look, none of [00:11:36] the underlying issues are addressed by [00:11:38] this deal. It's simply an exchange of [00:11:41] hostages [00:11:43] uh at 20, as you said, Israelis and um [00:11:47] hundreds, thousands of Palestinians, and [00:11:48] but of course there are thousands more [00:11:50] Palestinian hostages still in Israeli [00:11:52] prisons. And meanwhile, the fundamental [00:11:54] issue of denying Palestinians their [00:11:55] basic rights, that remains unchanged. [00:11:58] And Trump has made no suggestion that [00:12:01] he's interested in dealing with that [00:12:03] because it's been bipartisan US policy [00:12:05] for decades now to back Israel and its [00:12:08] military occupation of the Palestinian [00:12:09] people, theft of their land, theft of [00:12:12] their resources, uh, and continued [00:12:14] ethnic cleansing, which began in 19 48. [00:12:19] So, the deal does nothing to address [00:12:21] that. If you read the text of Trump's [00:12:22] so-called peace plan, there's one line [00:12:24] in there about how we recognize uh a [00:12:27] Palestinian state and self-determination [00:12:29] as the aspiration of the Palestinian [00:12:30] people, which is just such a completely [00:12:32] useless line. That's like saying to a [00:12:34] starving person who's asking you for [00:12:36] food, I recognize that you're hungry, [00:12:39] but I'm not going to offer you anything. [00:12:40] So that's essentially what the uh [00:12:43] Trump's so-called peace plan is when it [00:12:44] comes to Palestinians basic rights is [00:12:46] recognizing their aspiration for their [00:12:49] basic rights but continuing to deny them [00:12:51] those basic rights. Um as to whether as [00:12:55] to who this is a victory for. [00:12:58] Um well look the fact that Hamas wasn't [00:13:01] completely destroyed and remain [00:13:04] resilient after two years of genocide [00:13:06] you can call that a victory for Hamas uh [00:13:08] and a defeat for Israel. But look at the [00:13:10] cost. I mean, Gaza is completely [00:13:11] destroyed. And so, given that that was [00:13:14] Israel's overarching objective, which is [00:13:16] to, you know, destroy Gaza, make it [00:13:19] unlivable, and create the conditions for [00:13:22] expelling as many people as possible, [00:13:24] even though it hasn't achieved in two [00:13:26] years the full-blown ethnic cleansing [00:13:27] that it wanted. Uh, I think it's a [00:13:29] victory for Israel. Uh, what have we [00:13:32] really done to advance the ball for [00:13:33] Palestinian freedom? more people around [00:13:35] the world are aware of the evils of [00:13:38] Zionism and more people are disgusted by [00:13:41] Israel. So that certainly is a loss for [00:13:44] Israel. But in terms of Israel's [00:13:46] objectives, Israel's objectives are to [00:13:48] just completely erase the Palestinian [00:13:50] nation. And I think by destroying Gaza [00:13:53] and subjecting its people to a life of [00:13:59] um continued suffering and misery and [00:14:02] hopelessness, I think in that respect, [00:14:04] Israel has won. [00:14:07] And obviously Palestinians have dealt a [00:14:10] major blow in this genocide in terms of [00:14:13] like just casualties and starvation and [00:14:17] famine and this siege that Israel has uh [00:14:20] enforced on the Gaza Strip that has just [00:14:23] created so much human suffering and now [00:14:28] it's almost like these uh leaders [00:14:31] including President Trump and Netanyahu [00:14:33] want us to just kind of turn a blind eye [00:14:35] to their crimes against humanity. turn a [00:14:37] blind eye against this genocide and [00:14:39] everything that we just saw, the trauma [00:14:42] that we just witnessed as if it never [00:14:44] happened and just clap our hands and [00:14:46] move forward. How does that make you [00:14:48] feel? [00:14:49] >> Well, it's deeply upsetting as Israel's [00:14:52] existence always has been. I mean, you [00:14:55] go back to 1967 after Israel occupied [00:14:58] the West Bank in Gaza and someone like [00:15:00] Moshe Dian who was a top Israeli general [00:15:04] uh who was considered to be sympathetic [00:15:05] in the Israeli spectrum to the plight of [00:15:07] the Palestinians. He said basically our [00:15:09] policy for the West Bank will be you're [00:15:11] you talking about the Palestinians you [00:15:13] will live like dogs and whoever doesn't [00:15:15] like it can leave. That's at the liberal [00:15:18] end of the Israeli spectrum. That that's [00:15:19] been the policy forever and that policy [00:15:22] endures today. is there's not a basic [00:15:24] recognition that the Palestinians have [00:15:26] rights. What's changed now unfortunately [00:15:29] is you have the regional deterrence to [00:15:32] Israel a lot weaker. [00:15:34] Uh a lot of that comes from the dirty [00:15:37] war in Syria which meant Press News was [00:15:40] one of the few out outlets to cover [00:15:42] accurately. The goal of the dirty war in [00:15:44] Syria was to uh destroy an Arab country [00:15:47] that was not in the block of states that [00:15:49] were sort of subservient to the US. [00:15:52] uh and to Israel uh and that was a part [00:15:55] of the axis that resists Israeli [00:15:57] aggression. Not that Syria in recent [00:15:59] years has been uh doing anything to [00:16:01] deter Israel actively, but in previous [00:16:04] years like in the 2006 Lebanon war when [00:16:06] Israel attacked Lebanon, Syria was a [00:16:08] critical landbridge uh by which [00:16:10] Hezbollah received arms from Iran and [00:16:13] after then especially the Bush [00:16:14] administration uh ramped up its efforts [00:16:17] for regime change in Syria which [00:16:18] culminated in in the dirty war that [00:16:20] began under Barack Obama in 2011. So [00:16:23] that had the impact not only of [00:16:25] destroying Syria, but also bleeding uh [00:16:28] the real deterrence to Israeli [00:16:30] aggression in the region, Iran and [00:16:31] Hezbollah, which I think was also a main [00:16:33] goal of the dirty war. Even if they [00:16:35] couldn't achieve regime change in Syria, [00:16:37] they could destroy it, steal its [00:16:39] resources via the US military [00:16:40] occupation, put it under brutal [00:16:42] sanctions, and also draw in Iran and [00:16:44] Hezbollah uh and bleed them, which is [00:16:46] exactly what happened. And then after [00:16:48] October 7th, Israel took advantage of [00:16:50] all that to take uh its war of [00:16:53] aggression to both Lebanon and Iran. So [00:16:55] you have the main deterrence to Israel [00:16:57] weakened as a result of the legacy of [00:17:01] the dirty war and also Israel's [00:17:03] brutality and aggression since October [00:17:05] 7th. And then you have meanwhile the uh [00:17:08] Gulf monarchies Turkey who all [00:17:11] participated in the dirty war in Syria [00:17:13] uh who you know speak words in support [00:17:16] of Palestinian rights. But what have [00:17:18] they actually done? And in fact, what [00:17:20] one of the things they've done is um [00:17:22] cooperate with the Israeli military. [00:17:23] There were just a report in the [00:17:24] Washington Post saying that throughout [00:17:26] the genocide, while states like Qatar [00:17:28] and Saudi Arabia were denouncing Israel, [00:17:30] they were meeting with the Israeli [00:17:32] military privately to coordinate against [00:17:34] Iran. So you have um Israeli US [00:17:39] hijgemony increasing these last two [00:17:41] years of genocide. You also have the [00:17:44] Gulf monarchies um being more [00:17:47] collaborative with Israel and the US and [00:17:50] in the process even dropping their [00:17:53] previous stances that at least defended [00:17:55] Palestinians absolute minimum rights [00:17:57] like for a long time there's been a [00:17:59] global consensus which even at times [00:18:01] Hamas has accepted and I know it's not [00:18:03] very popular for people who understand [00:18:06] the realities of Israel and the evils of [00:18:08] Zionism u but there has been a consensus [00:18:11] that Palestine should at least have a [00:18:14] state in 22% of their stolen homeland. [00:18:17] The PLO accepted that. Hamas leaders [00:18:19] accepted that. Iran accepted that. And [00:18:21] the entire Arab League accepted that. In [00:18:24] 2002, they made a peace offer to Israel [00:18:26] for full normalization if it gave the [00:18:29] Palestinians a state and just 22% of [00:18:31] their stolen homeland, the West Bank, [00:18:33] Gaza, East Jerusalem. Now, if you care [00:18:35] about equality and freedom, it's still [00:18:37] an unjust solution because it [00:18:39] perpetuates this Jewish supremacist [00:18:41] state that stole Palestinians land, but [00:18:43] it's also the global consensus and a [00:18:45] recognition of the best, at least [00:18:47] currently, the best possibly realistic [00:18:50] scenario. So, that's why it was offered [00:18:52] to Israel. And now, the Arab states [00:18:54] don't even offer that. They don't even [00:18:55] offer that massive compromise that [00:18:58] Palestinians previously accepted, which [00:19:00] speaks to how Israeli US power has been [00:19:03] emboldened. in recent years by this [00:19:05] genocide. [00:19:07] >> I mean, we saw all of these so-called [00:19:09] access of assistance nations uh meeting [00:19:11] in Sharmashek yesterday with Donald [00:19:13] Trump and you know, we called it what it [00:19:15] is. This was a meeting of the [00:19:17] collaborators of the genocide, not a [00:19:20] meeting for peace. And of course, uh now [00:19:22] we have leading the negotiations for the [00:19:24] US. They were not diplomats but real [00:19:27] estate developers including Donald [00:19:28] Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner uh who [00:19:31] last year noted that waterfront property [00:19:34] could be very valuable in Gaza. So you [00:19:37] recently described Kushner as a [00:19:39] perpetual winner of the world's most [00:19:41] genocidal bar mitzvah speech. What's [00:19:44] your take on the Trump administration in [00:19:46] all of this and their plans to turn Gaza [00:19:49] into a real estate front property? [00:19:53] with a line about, you know, Jared [00:19:54] Kushner, you know, giving a perpetual uh [00:19:57] genocidal bar mitzvah speech. It's just [00:19:59] like he sounds like he's giving a bar [00:20:00] mitzvah speech. Like it reminds me of [00:20:02] the bar mitzvah speeches I used to hear [00:20:03] when I had to go to bar mitzvah growing [00:20:05] up. Um so that's just what I hear in [00:20:08] Jared Kushner. And yeah, Jared Kushner [00:20:10] and let's call them what they are. They [00:20:11] aren't just real estate developers. It's [00:20:13] easy for it's easier for me to say this [00:20:15] because I'm Jewish. They're Jewish real [00:20:17] estate developers and they're avowed [00:20:19] Zionists. Both Jared Kusher and Steve [00:20:21] Wickoff. Steve Wukov's supposed to be [00:20:23] Trump's top Middle East peace envoy. A [00:20:26] few months ago, he spoke at a fundraiser [00:20:29] for a anti-Palestinian pro-Israel group. [00:20:33] Uh, and in the audience was a former [00:20:36] chief of Mossad. Okay. So, Steve [00:20:38] Wickoff's speaking and it's at a certain [00:20:40] point he stops his prepared remarks. He [00:20:42] goes, "Oh my god, I have to stop for a [00:20:44] second. My Jewish mother would be so [00:20:46] proud of me. The former chief of massage [00:20:48] just clap for me. So he was like all [00:20:50] emotional that a former Israeli spy [00:20:52] chief just clapped for him. So these are [00:20:53] the people who are so-called u who are [00:20:56] leading Trump's so-called peace efforts [00:20:58] like people who get verclamp at uh [00:21:00] Israeli spy chiefs clapping for them and [00:21:03] people who are avowed Zionists who want [00:21:05] to turn Gaza into beachfront property [00:21:08] for themselves and their Zionist [00:21:10] friends. So, it's a farce and um it's [00:21:14] just such an indictment of the Biden [00:21:16] administration that even these people [00:21:19] that even these um avowed Zionists who [00:21:22] don't care about Palestines whatsoever [00:21:24] that even for them uh this genocide went [00:21:27] on for too long and they finally told [00:21:28] Netanyahu to knock it off. Biden could [00:21:30] have had this exact same deal from the [00:21:32] start. You know, right after October [00:21:34] 7th, Hamas offered Israel to free all [00:21:36] the civilian captives that it took if [00:21:38] Israel didn't attack Gaza. Israel didn't [00:21:40] care because it seized the opportunity [00:21:42] to fulfill its long-term objective of [00:21:45] destroying Gaza and pushing as many [00:21:47] people out uh into exile um on top of [00:21:50] the original exile of the Nagba where [00:21:53] you know which is where most [00:21:55] Palestinians in Gaza come from because [00:21:56] most Palestinians in Gaza are either [00:21:58] refugees or the descendants of refugees [00:22:01] and some of the areas that were attacked [00:22:03] in the October 7th operation were former [00:22:06] Palestinian villages that were stolen [00:22:07] from the people who now live in Gaza and [00:22:10] their uh [00:22:12] and um and their families. So um that's [00:22:16] who we have leading diplomacy for Trump, [00:22:18] avowed Zionists who want to just turn [00:22:20] Gaza into a place where they can make [00:22:22] more money. [00:22:24] >> And you mentioned that the Biden [00:22:25] administration could have struck this [00:22:27] deal at any moment when he was [00:22:29] president. And we just had Camala Harris [00:22:31] tweet out so proudly like she was [00:22:33] bragging that, you know, Trump shouldn't [00:22:36] really get all the credit for making [00:22:38] this so-called peace plan. It was really [00:22:40] her and Biden that brought most of the [00:22:43] peace to Gaza. What are your thoughts on [00:22:46] that? [00:22:48] I mean, uh, to me, the most interesting [00:22:50] aspect of the Democrats, like the Biden [00:22:53] camp, is that their, um, cowardice [00:22:58] on the issue of Israel Palestine and [00:23:00] their just refusal to take on the Israel [00:23:03] lobby and to adopt like any minimal [00:23:06] recognition of Palestinian rights. Like [00:23:08] that subservience to Israel, it [00:23:11] supersedes even their desire for power [00:23:14] like to be in office. Because if KL, [00:23:16] everyone knows this, if Kmel had just [00:23:19] even slightly distanced herself from [00:23:21] Biden on the issue of the Gaza genocide, [00:23:24] she would have radically improved her [00:23:26] chances of winning. Radically. And it [00:23:28] was such an easy political thing to do. [00:23:30] I mean, forget morals for a second cuz [00:23:32] we can't expect politicians to have [00:23:33] that. But just thinking like [00:23:35] strategically from like the idea of like [00:23:36] a coldblooded Washington beltway [00:23:39] pragmatist, you have polls showing that [00:23:42] the Democratic base is like revolted by [00:23:46] Biden's policy on Gaza and all they want [00:23:50] is for some like minimal break from Kl [00:23:52] Harris. Even just even if it wasn't even [00:23:54] sincere, just saying it, right? But she [00:23:57] wouldn't do it. And why? Because I guess [00:23:59] like the hatred of Palestinians, their [00:24:02] dehumanization, and like the veneration [00:24:04] of Israel as our ally and blah blah [00:24:06] blah, it's so embedded in US [00:24:08] establishment culture that even someone [00:24:11] um trying to win the presidency was not [00:24:15] willing to break from Israel and and and [00:24:18] break from Biden's slavish support for [00:24:20] Israel. So, it just speaks to the [00:24:21] absolute anti-Palestinian fanaticism we [00:24:23] have embedded into our political culture [00:24:25] where people would rather serve Israel [00:24:26] than even win an election. It it's [00:24:28] really unbelievable. Uh and it speaks to [00:24:31] just years and years of propaganda and [00:24:33] the power that the Israel lobby has, not [00:24:36] just in Washington, but in all aspects [00:24:37] of society because say you're Kla Harris [00:24:39] and like you're thinking about your post [00:24:42] uh um politics career, you know, because [00:24:45] these people get book deals and speaking [00:24:47] tours. You know, Kla Harris probably [00:24:48] knows subconsciously that if she speaks [00:24:50] out for Palestine in some like just [00:24:53] prefuncter way, like the most like [00:24:55] minimal, like letting a Palestinian [00:24:56] speaker who wants to endorse her to [00:24:59] speak at the DNC convention, she might [00:25:01] be thinking about, well, if I do that, I [00:25:02] might not get a lucrative speaking gig [00:25:04] or a book deal. You know, these things [00:25:06] have an impact on these people who [00:25:07] aren't just thinking about politics. [00:25:09] They're thinking about their position of [00:25:10] power within the US establishment. And [00:25:13] so they'd rather sell out their own [00:25:16] political chances than uh acknowledge [00:25:20] Palestinian suffering and do something a [00:25:22] little differently than what Biden did. [00:25:24] And instead, you know, we got people [00:25:25] like AOC uh going up and saying that Kla [00:25:28] Harris is working tirelessly for a [00:25:30] ceasefire, even though it wasn't true. [00:25:32] And she could have lied and said Kla [00:25:34] Harris will work tirelessly for a [00:25:35] ceasefire, which again wouldn't be a [00:25:37] lie, but at least it wouldn't be [00:25:38] demonstrabably false because that would [00:25:40] be aspirational sometime in the future. [00:25:42] But they insulted all of us and they [00:25:44] made it impossible to vote for them. And [00:25:46] I say this, I mean, listen, I'm in the [00:25:47] minority, I think, in my camp when it [00:25:51] comes to like, you know, like media [00:25:52] circles. I actually believe in lesser [00:25:54] evil voting. Um, I'd rather have a [00:25:56] president that doesn't cut Medicaid for [00:25:58] low-income people, uh, and, uh, give [00:26:02] even bigger tax breaks to the ultra [00:26:03] wealthy. But Democrats made it [00:26:06] absolutely impossible to uh adopt the [00:26:10] lesser evil strategy because they [00:26:12] actually showed on the issue on the [00:26:14] issue of the Gaza genocide that they [00:26:15] were the bigger evil given that they let [00:26:17] the genocide go on for uh as long as [00:26:20] they did. They refused to stop it and [00:26:21] they seated that lane to Trump who [00:26:23] finally ended it. [00:26:24] >> They basically set it all up for Trump [00:26:26] to continue the genocide. No doubt. So [00:26:29] in the last 24 hours, dozens of world [00:26:32] leaders have met in Sharmashik, Egypt to [00:26:34] plan the future for Palestine as if it's [00:26:37] their role to decide our future as [00:26:40] Palestinians. Is anything good going to [00:26:42] come out of this US-led summit? What do [00:26:44] you think? [00:26:46] I don't see anything good coming out of [00:26:48] this except for an end to the genocide [00:26:49] which again is something to welcome but [00:26:52] we can't fool ourselves into thinking [00:26:53] that there's uh any um steps towards [00:26:58] justice minimal Palestinian rights. [00:27:00] There's just none of that. Um the Gulf [00:27:03] States have long seen Palestinians as [00:27:05] kind of a nuisance [00:27:07] and they don't offer them anything. that [00:27:09] are just kind of a distraction. And [00:27:11] they're going along with this Trump [00:27:13] process of the so-called Abraham [00:27:14] Accords, which is just a way for Israel [00:27:16] to normalize with its neighbors while [00:27:17] offering the Palestinians absolutely [00:27:19] nothing. And all they're willing to say [00:27:21] is that there should be a pathway to a [00:27:23] Palestinian state, which is just such a [00:27:25] meaningless term. I mean, either there's [00:27:27] a Palestinian state or there isn't. A [00:27:29] pathway, uh, that kind of language is [00:27:31] just an excuse to put Palestinians on a [00:27:33] road to nowhere. That's what a pathway [00:27:34] means. Uh, it's somewhere far off in the [00:27:37] future. We just have to get there. No, [00:27:38] if you want to give Palestinians a [00:27:40] state, then the answer is very obvious. [00:27:41] Uproot all the illegal settlers in the [00:27:43] occupied West Bank. All of them. They [00:27:45] have no right to be there. Uh, and give [00:27:47] Palestinians the absolute minimum. And [00:27:50] of course, they deserve their entire [00:27:52] homeland back, but [00:27:55] the problem there is Israel's nuclear [00:27:56] weapons. And I just don't see the [00:27:58] immediate path to achieving that. So, at [00:27:59] the very minimum, give Palestinians what [00:28:01] their leaders have already accepted, a [00:28:03] state in 22% of their stolen homeland. [00:28:05] Uh but of course that's not even in the [00:28:07] conversation and as I said earlier the [00:28:10] Arab League has stopped talking about [00:28:12] that and and you can see just how [00:28:14] determined [00:28:17] all these leaders are to crush Palestine [00:28:19] self-intermination by the refusal to [00:28:21] free Marwan Barguti who everybody knows [00:28:24] is the most popular political leader in [00:28:26] Palestine. If there were elections if [00:28:28] Israel allowed elections uh he would [00:28:30] win. He's not even from Hamas. He can't [00:28:32] even use the Hamas canard. Um, he has [00:28:36] advocated in the past nonviolence. He [00:28:38] ticks all the boxes that like Western [00:28:40] liberals claim to support when it comes [00:28:42] to Palestine. Not that he should have to [00:28:44] tick all those boxes. What I'm saying is [00:28:46] from the point of view of their facious [00:28:47] arguments. Uh, they have none to make uh [00:28:50] because he's a popular leader with [00:28:53] legitimacy and he's not even from Hamas, [00:28:55] which you know, everyone insists can't [00:28:57] rule Gaza anymore. And in fact, Hamas [00:28:58] says we don't even want to rule Gaza [00:28:59] anymore. So, that's not even an issue. [00:29:01] So, Israel won't free him. The [00:29:03] Palestinian Authority, it's my sense [00:29:05] they've kind of abandoned him because [00:29:06] they see him as a threat to themselves [00:29:08] as well because who are they? They're a [00:29:11] corrupt collaborationist authority. And [00:29:14] Hamas, to their credit, tried to get him [00:29:17] freed. He was one of the people at the [00:29:18] top of their list. I think that was a [00:29:20] major goal of October 7th, you know, um [00:29:23] freeing a Palestinian political leader [00:29:26] who could unite the Palestinian people, [00:29:27] unite the different factions and have [00:29:29] popular legitimacy. Um which is, you [00:29:32] know, contrary all the propaganda that [00:29:34] Hamas has wanted to go in and kill [00:29:35] Israeli civilians. No, they were trying [00:29:37] to do the only thing that they felt they [00:29:39] had left, which is to create leverage [00:29:41] for themselves after having none. after [00:29:43] trying nonviolent protest, after trying [00:29:45] to accept a Palestinian state in just [00:29:48] 22% of their historic homeland, um after [00:29:50] being put under siege when they won [00:29:52] elections. So, this was their next last [00:29:56] gasp is to try to free a Palestinian [00:29:59] political leader like Marwan Barguti who [00:30:00] could actually unite the Palestinian [00:30:01] people and and be credible. So, you you [00:30:03] can see in the refusal to release Marwan [00:30:05] Bargouti by Israel that there's just [00:30:08] this continued determination to crush [00:30:10] the Palestinian struggle for freedom. [00:30:12] And unfortunately, you have more states [00:30:14] in the region now that are acquiescing [00:30:17] to that. And so, it's very ominous. [00:30:21] >> Absolutely. And what's even more ominous [00:30:23] is uh how this genocide has completely [00:30:26] transformed or maybe even lifted the [00:30:28] veil on just this uh Israeli takeover of [00:30:33] our corporate media and political [00:30:35] system. I mean, on the home front, we [00:30:36] have pro-Israel multi-billionaires like [00:30:39] the Ellison's buying CBS and possibly [00:30:42] Tik Tok that's coming up here very soon. [00:30:44] Um, and installing Barry Wise as [00:30:47] editor-inchief of CBS. The Financial [00:30:50] Times has reported that it was [00:30:51] explicitly her pro-Israel views that got [00:30:54] her the job. So, what have you made of [00:30:57] this hire, and what does this say about [00:30:58] the state of modern journalism today? [00:31:02] You know, I'm a fan of comedy and so my [00:31:05] problem is I love comedy so much that in [00:31:08] thinking about Barry Weiss being [00:31:10] installed at the head of CBS News, I [00:31:11] just I like the humor of it just takes [00:31:14] over because to me it's hilarious. This [00:31:17] like unqualified [00:31:19] uh opinion columnist who's made a career [00:31:22] out of like being an activist for Israel [00:31:23] with no journalism experience whatsoever [00:31:26] with founding an outlet that's like just [00:31:28] such a transparent joke. one of their [00:31:30] biggest stories was trying to deny the [00:31:31] famine in Gaza uh by making the argument [00:31:35] that because some of the famine-stricken [00:31:38] kids had pre-existing conditions and [00:31:40] it's not really a famine when of course [00:31:43] the fact that suffering uh you know um [00:31:46] medically compromised people experience [00:31:49] starvation [00:31:51] uh is of course of that that's going to [00:31:53] happen when you have a famine is like [00:31:55] the most vulnerable people are going to [00:31:56] suffer first and that's just like you So [00:31:59] anyway, her being installed to CBS News [00:32:01] and like imagine being a CBS news [00:32:03] employee who like tries to take [00:32:05] journalism seriously and all of a sudden [00:32:07] your new boss is someone with no [00:32:08] journalism experience who's there cuz [00:32:10] she's a pro-Israel activist and it's [00:32:12] just like, "Hey, I'm your boss now." [00:32:14] It's it's like a it's a bad comedy. Um, [00:32:17] so it's funny and it does lift the mask [00:32:20] off of, you know, Zionist control of our [00:32:23] media, uh, along with the fact that, you [00:32:25] know, Tik Tok has been taken over, uh, [00:32:28] by the same forces that are that [00:32:29] installed Barry Weiss at CBS News [00:32:31] because, as US politicians from Mitt [00:32:34] Romney to Anthony Blinkin openly [00:32:36] admitted, the kids were seeing too much [00:32:39] footage of dead babies in Gaza and they [00:32:42] were mad about it. So we therefore we [00:32:43] have to shut Tik Tok down. Um, so the [00:32:47] mask is off. It's funny, but it's also [00:32:50] terrifying. It speaks to the this [00:32:53] continued erosion of our freedom, of [00:32:55] our, you know, a a press that's actually [00:32:58] doing its job. And um the the the upside [00:33:03] is that nobody trusts these institutions [00:33:05] anymore. And do you think Barry Weiss is [00:33:07] going to help the for the fortunes of [00:33:09] CBS News? It's I feel bad for its [00:33:11] employees, but given that CBS News is a [00:33:14] part of a propaganda system that that [00:33:16] overall indoctrinates people on core [00:33:19] issues of foreign policy, especially of [00:33:21] US hijgemony, then you know, maybe Barry [00:33:24] Weiss is by maybe Barry Weiss by heading [00:33:27] CBS News is doing us all a favor by just [00:33:30] exposing what a complete scam our [00:33:31] so-called free press is. Well, a recent [00:33:34] poll showed that what trust in American [00:33:36] media is at like the lowest point it's [00:33:38] ever been in like recent history. I [00:33:40] think the number was like 25% or [00:33:42] something like that. And makes me wonder [00:33:44] who are these 25% individuals? I mean, I [00:33:47] would think it's like this remaining [00:33:49] Christian Zionist uh supporters [00:33:52] supporters of Israel. And so uh she will [00:33:54] definitely keep them entertained. Um, so [00:33:57] for my final question for you, Erin, in [00:34:00] recent years, we've seen Twitter being [00:34:02] purchased by the sdently pro-Israel [00:34:05] Republican Elon Musk. We've seen Jeff [00:34:08] Bezos tell his staff at the Washington [00:34:10] Washington Post that critiquing [00:34:11] capitalism and the US-led order is [00:34:14] explicitly barred. And we have uh we are [00:34:17] seeing now the forc sale of Tik Tok to [00:34:20] Larry Ellison, who is the Israeli [00:34:22] military's largest international funer. [00:34:25] Is there any hope in this media [00:34:27] landscape as an independent journalist [00:34:29] yourself who covers the forever war [00:34:31] machine? And where can people turn to to [00:34:34] get the truth? [00:34:37] >> Well, listen, uh you know, one result of [00:34:41] uh the recent Trump period is a complete [00:34:44] collapse in trust in corporate media. [00:34:47] And you know, part of that is for [00:34:50] unfortunate reasons like the sort of [00:34:52] like the Trump mythology and the cultish [00:34:54] aspects of MAGA just refusing to have [00:34:57] any criticism of dear leader, right? [00:34:59] That's one uh reason for the decline of [00:35:03] trust in corporate media, which is not a [00:35:04] thing to welcome. But another reason is [00:35:06] totally legitimate, which is that the [00:35:09] media did act in a deceptive way and on [00:35:12] so many issues related to Trump. I mean, [00:35:14] the most, I think, obvious example, the [00:35:16] one I spent a lot of time on is Russia [00:35:18] Gate. The one of the dumbest conspiracy [00:35:20] theories of all time, the fact that the [00:35:22] idea that Trump is a Russian agent and [00:35:24] he's compromised by the Kremlin and [00:35:26] Russian oligarchs and Russia waged this [00:35:28] massive interference campaign to [00:35:29] brainwash Americans. It was a complete [00:35:32] scam on so many different levels. And by [00:35:34] the way, you know, since we're talking [00:35:36] about the Gaza genocide, [00:35:38] you you saw the clip, I'm sure, of Trump [00:35:40] going to uh the Israeli Parliament and [00:35:42] like basically again admitting that he [00:35:44] did that he did the bidding of Israel [00:35:46] first oligarchs Miriam and Sheldon [00:35:48] Adlesen. He reminded everybody that he [00:35:50] moved the US embassy to Jerusalem for [00:35:52] them that he basically that he does [00:35:54] their bidding. And compare that to all [00:35:56] the time and energy to how much time was [00:35:59] wasted going down this rabbit hole of [00:36:02] like the fictional Russian oligarchs [00:36:04] controlling Trump and the fictional [00:36:05] Kremlin minders controlling Trump. Um, [00:36:08] do any of these people who fearmongered [00:36:10] about so-called Russian interference [00:36:12] have anything to say about Trump's open [00:36:15] admission of being uh of doing the [00:36:18] bidding of Israel oligarchs under [00:36:20] Israeli influence? No. Because Russia [00:36:22] Gate was just a scam. And so, you know, [00:36:25] for good reason, people don't trust the [00:36:26] media because everyone in the media, [00:36:27] including, I'm sorry to say, some of our [00:36:29] independent media colleagues went along [00:36:31] with it. Um, so in that respect, there [00:36:33] are aspects of the decline of trust in [00:36:35] corporate media that are positive. But [00:36:37] there's also a cultish MAGA element here [00:36:40] where there's just no criticism [00:36:41] tolerated of the leader. And that's a [00:36:44] problem. And another problem is the [00:36:47] spaces we're in, man. I mean, I think M [00:36:49] press is a rare exception that doesn't [00:36:52] get duped by [00:36:54] the same forces uh that uh fool us on so [00:36:59] many issues. Like so for example, you [00:37:00] take an issue like the Gaza genocide. [00:37:03] That's not controversial with an [00:37:04] independent media. No one supports [00:37:07] Israel. Initially, there were some [00:37:09] people who would parrot some Israeli [00:37:10] propaganda like the rape hoax. They got [00:37:12] duped by that. But for the most part, I [00:37:14] think independent media coverage is [00:37:15] really good. You look at a show like [00:37:17] Democracy Now where I used to work. They [00:37:19] do great coverage of Gaza. They [00:37:21] interview great people. Although I have [00:37:23] to say they also boycott certain great [00:37:25] guests like Norman Finkelstein who [00:37:26] hasn't been on throughout the entire [00:37:28] Gaza genocide, but that's another story. [00:37:30] Um, but on other issues like the Ukraine [00:37:32] proxy war, like Syria, like Russia gate, [00:37:35] the stories that require more critical [00:37:37] thinking and more intellectual [00:37:38] self-defense from our very sophisticated [00:37:41] propaganda system there. you know, some [00:37:44] of our colleagues have done a terrible [00:37:45] job and they've been duped by the same [00:37:48] propaganda that they debunk on other [00:37:50] issues. So, uh, that's something to [00:37:52] address. And for people working in [00:37:55] independent media, there's no shortage [00:37:56] of opportunities, uh, to be on the right [00:37:59] side, to be on the side of truth. Uh, [00:38:01] but it's hard because things are [00:38:02] increasingly fragmented. People's [00:38:04] attention is pulled in so many different [00:38:06] ways. It's hard to, you know, get people [00:38:08] to read something uh these days because [00:38:10] there's just so many choices on offer. [00:38:13] But as always, you know, so long as we [00:38:15] have um some semblance of freedom, which [00:38:17] we do have here, uh there are [00:38:19] opportunities for people telling the [00:38:21] truth. [00:38:22] >> Absolutely. And we thank you and commend [00:38:23] you for challenging the status quo with [00:38:25] your reporting at the Greyzone and [00:38:27] Substack and your show with Katie [00:38:28] Halper. And uh hopefully we'll have you [00:38:30] on again, Aaron Mate. Thank you so much, [00:38:33] >> Manar. Uh thank you for having me on. [00:38:35] Thank you for all you do at Men Press [00:38:37] and I urge anyone uh with the means to [00:38:41] uh support your outlet which I think is [00:38:42] really important journalism that very [00:38:44] few other people including in the [00:38:45] independent media space are doing. So [00:38:47] it's an honor to join you and thank you. [00:38:49] >> Oh, thank you Aaron. Really appreciate [00:38:51] that. [00:38:54] [Music]