Untitled Document

[00:00:00] Uh so the purpose of this hearing today [00:00:05] is to shed a light on one of the [00:00:11] [clears throat] problems associated with [00:00:13] the Ukraine [00:00:15] uh Russia conflict. We have disputes [00:00:18] about land. We have disputes about the [00:00:21] size of the Ukrainian military, how big [00:00:23] it should be, what capability it should [00:00:25] have. Do we have NATO type troops on the [00:00:28] ground making sure there's no third [00:00:30] invasion? Should they be in NATO? If [00:00:32] not, should they forever be barred? So, [00:00:35] these are u areas of dispute. [00:00:39] One area of dispute looms large for all [00:00:43] of us on this committee, Republican and [00:00:45] Democrat. Here's the dispute. Our [00:00:50] Ukrainian allies claim [00:00:52] 19,546 [00:00:55] reports of unlawful deportation and [00:00:59] forced transfer of children in the [00:01:02] occupied areas of Ukraine by Russia. [00:01:07] Let me say this again. [00:01:10] People in Ukraine [00:01:13] and organizations are claiming that [00:01:16] Putin's Russia has separated over 19,000 [00:01:20] Ukrainian children from their families, [00:01:24] trying to turn them into Russians. [00:01:28] How can you end this war unless every [00:01:32] child is accounted for? The purpose of [00:01:35] the hearing today is to make a record as [00:01:38] to whether or not this claim is [00:01:39] legitimate. I invited the Russian [00:01:42] ambassador. There's his table. It's [00:01:44] small, but that's the best we can do. He [00:01:46] didn't show up. [00:01:48] So, this dispute needs to be defined and [00:01:51] it needs to be resolved. Again, you [00:01:53] cannot honorably end this conflict [00:01:56] unless you account for every child taken [00:02:00] by Putin's Russia from Ukraine. Period. [00:02:03] In terms of how this conflict ends, I [00:02:06] think it's very important that Congress [00:02:08] review what has been agreed to that we [00:02:12] have a say about is this a good deal or [00:02:14] a bad deal. That if there are security [00:02:16] guarantees, which there must be, that [00:02:18] we'll review those guarantees and see if [00:02:20] we can find bipartisan support to make [00:02:23] them continuing past the Trump [00:02:25] administration. Those are two things [00:02:27] very important to me. Every child must [00:02:29] be accounted for and Congress needs to [00:02:32] have a look at this deal if we can ever [00:02:34] reach one. To the Trump administration, [00:02:37] thank you for trying to end this [00:02:38] bloodbath. Uh all of us know we'll never [00:02:41] get a perfect deal. There'll be [00:02:42] sacrifices made, but one of the [00:02:44] sacrifices we're not going to make is to [00:02:47] give Russia 19,000 Ukrainian children. [00:02:51] That's not a sacrifice I'm willing to [00:02:54] make. I doubt if anybody up here is [00:02:56] willing to make that sacrifice. This is [00:02:58] not about land. This is about families. [00:03:01] It's about the very fabric of society. [00:03:04] How would you feel if it were one of [00:03:07] your children? What would you want the [00:03:09] world to do? I'd want the world to get [00:03:11] my kid back. Is that asking too much? I [00:03:14] don't think so. As to our Russian [00:03:17] friends. [00:03:19] They have 210 facilities. people have [00:03:22] identified [00:03:23] 39 sites uh where children go for direct [00:03:27] military training, [00:03:29] 130 sites that deal with their [00:03:31] re-education, making them Russian. I'm [00:03:34] not making this up. This is 2025, not [00:03:36] 1945. [00:03:38] This is going on in 2025. [00:03:41] And uh it needs to stop. [00:03:47] Russia pretty well denies everything. [00:03:51] They provide they refuse to work with [00:03:54] the UN. They block monitoring. [00:03:58] They have done nothing meaningful to [00:04:00] resolve this issue. They're stonewalling [00:04:03] us all. They're saying it doesn't exist. [00:04:06] And this was a chance for Russia to tell [00:04:08] its side of the story. They decided not [00:04:10] to come. So, this hearing is one of the [00:04:13] most important things that any of us [00:04:15] will do in our time uh in the Senate and [00:04:18] in the House. Deliver justice [00:04:22] [clears throat] to people who've had [00:04:24] their children kidnapped by a foreign [00:04:26] power. We have legislation, Senator [00:04:29] Blumenthal and myself, that would make [00:04:31] Russia a state sponsor of terrorism [00:04:33] under US law if we don't repatriate [00:04:35] these children. One of the definitions [00:04:39] uh making a country a state sponsor of [00:04:42] terrorism, a section says kidnapping [00:04:45] and this is kidnapping. So we're trying [00:04:48] to come together, all of us, to make [00:04:51] Russia a terrorist state because they're [00:04:53] acting like terrorists and I hope we can [00:04:55] move forward on that soon and I hope we [00:04:57] can find a way to end this bloodbath. [00:04:59] But we got to do it right. So uh we're [00:05:02] trying to provide as much visibility as [00:05:04] we can to our European friends. do what [00:05:06] we're doing. Have a hearing. Get your [00:05:08] parliaments together. Create your [00:05:10] version of a state sponsor of terrorism. [00:05:12] Let's work together hand in hand. Let's [00:05:15] try to find a way to put maximum [00:05:16] pressure on Putin's Russia to account [00:05:18] for each and every child. Every [00:05:20] parliament in Europe should be doing [00:05:22] what we're doing. Everybody should be [00:05:23] having hearings and u so we don't have a [00:05:27] minute to delay. Uh Senator Shots been [00:05:30] great to work with. This whole committee [00:05:32] has been great to work with. We'll do [00:05:34] his opening statement. We'll introduce [00:05:36] uh our first panel and thank you all. [00:05:41] >> Thank you. Uh we'll have five minute [00:05:42] rounds and uh thank you all. Very very [00:05:46] compelling testimony. Um Miss Raymond, [00:05:48] we'll try to keep you up and running [00:05:50] here. So just to understand [00:05:55] what we're talking about, you're [00:05:56] confident that Russia has put up for [00:06:00] adoption Ukrainian children being [00:06:02] masqueraded as Russian children. [00:06:06] >> High confidence. [00:06:07] >> High confidence. [00:06:08] >> Highest confidence of intelligence [00:06:09] assessment. [00:06:10] >> Okay. These camps you talk about run the [00:06:13] breadth of Russian territory. How many [00:06:16] are there? Do you [00:06:18] >> our initial estimate was 110 and that [00:06:20] was wrong. It turned out to be 210 [00:06:23] approximately. We found more since then, [00:06:25] but 210 is our current high confidence [00:06:28] assessment. Sir, [00:06:28] >> very briefly, what is the purpose of [00:06:31] these camps? [00:06:32] >> Three purposes. To indoctrinate, [00:06:36] militarize, [00:06:38] and to isolate. [00:06:40] >> And all of these children going to these [00:06:43] camps are Ukrainian. Is that correct? [00:06:46] That is uh not correct. There are three [00:06:49] groups of camps. Those that are [00:06:50] Ukrainian only. [00:06:51] >> Okay. [00:06:52] >> Those that are mixed camps and it really [00:06:55] differs by age group. And the third are [00:06:57] those that are specifically military [00:06:58] training camps that sometimes are [00:07:00] Ukrainian only and sometimes mixed. [00:07:02] >> In your estimate, there could be up to [00:07:04] 35,000 [00:07:06] Ukrainian children [00:07:08] at Russia for lack of a better term. [00:07:10] >> That's our internal estimate right now. [00:07:12] We are working to validate, sir. [00:07:14] >> Okay. to save Ukraine. How many children [00:07:17] have you reunited with their Ukrainian [00:07:20] families? [00:07:22] >> Um, more than a thousand children have [00:07:24] been surged and returned to their [00:07:27] relatives in Ukraine. [00:07:28] >> Okay. And we won't go into great detail, [00:07:30] but you're able to do that because of [00:07:34] when one child is returned then give you [00:07:36] information about other children. Is [00:07:38] that sort of how it works? [00:07:39] >> Yeah. through the our rescue missions we [00:07:42] provide and we bringing them to our [00:07:44] rehabilit rehabilitation program and we [00:07:48] after rehabilitation uh and trauma [00:07:51] therapy children witnessing and telling [00:07:53] us information about that kids [00:07:55] >> which leads you to more children right [00:07:56] >> yeah and in military camps militarymies [00:08:00] in their villages [00:08:01] >> I got you so this underground rural road [00:08:03] you describe is that fairly dangerous [00:08:06] work [00:08:07] >> oh it's very dangerous I I can't tell [00:08:09] you a lot maybe privately but it's it's [00:08:13] possible only because we are not telling [00:08:16] a lot about it. Yeah. [00:08:17] >> And we have our specific [00:08:20] >> Okay. [00:08:21] >> Gotcha. God bless you. Uh madame [00:08:23] ambassador uh appreciate you being here. [00:08:27] >> Make sure I understand whatever [00:08:29] negotiations are going on about [00:08:31] territory and the size of the Ukrainian [00:08:33] military. Um, you know, NATO, no NATO, [00:08:37] the children is the policy or the [00:08:39] position of the Ukrainian government. [00:08:42] This is non-negotiable. Is that correct? [00:08:44] >> Uh, Mr. Chairman, you're correct. Uh, [00:08:47] all children who have been abducted uh [00:08:50] are subjected to unconditional return [00:08:52] under the jurisdiction of Ukraine. [00:08:54] >> Okay. Do you have any dialogue with the [00:08:57] Russian Federation regarding the [00:08:59] identity of these children or any plan [00:09:01] to repatriate them? Uh at this point you [00:09:04] have seen that there has been a [00:09:06] discussion in Geneva and uh last week in [00:09:09] Florida and uh these discussions build [00:09:12] around a specific plan of actions which [00:09:14] includes the return of Ukrainian [00:09:16] children. However, the discussion is [00:09:18] still continued. [00:09:19] >> Okay. But is it part of the negotiated [00:09:22] process? [00:09:23] >> Uh well at this point we have created a [00:09:25] number of international mechanism which [00:09:27] allowed the return of uh Ukrainian [00:09:30] children but the numbers are really [00:09:31] small. Some of the instruments were used [00:09:34] also to uh uh make sure that the first [00:09:37] lady of United States is able to make [00:09:39] some announcements. These are the [00:09:40] instruments was used with our partners [00:09:43] but also mostly the return of the [00:09:45] children is done through initiatives [00:09:47] like Mcllas but also under leadership of [00:09:49] the bring kids back initiative. [00:09:51] >> Okay. When it has Russia admitted to [00:09:54] having these children in any significant [00:09:56] numbers? uh we believe that uh over the [00:09:59] uh one of the meetings in I install when [00:10:01] Ukraine presented a number of 300 kids [00:10:04] for the beginning of the dialogue, [00:10:06] Russia denied the the uh the very fact [00:10:08] that there is such things as abducted [00:10:10] kids. But we believe that the very fact [00:10:12] that we hear the announcement of the [00:10:14] return uh of Ukrainian kids with the [00:10:18] support of the Russia is a testimony of [00:10:20] the very fact that this crime have been [00:10:22] committed. How many children have been [00:10:25] returned working with Russia? [00:10:28] >> Uh at this point uh we can only judge by [00:10:31] formal numbers. We know from the [00:10:33] initiatives and testimonies you have. [00:10:35] But if you don't mind, I will uh leave [00:10:37] it to Maxim who have the exact numbers [00:10:40] collected. [00:10:40] >> And the reason I ask it, I understand [00:10:42] the the Underground Railroad. I'm trying [00:10:44] to figure out if Russia cooperating at [00:10:47] all in terms of defining the scope of [00:10:49] the problem and helping return the [00:10:52] children. So, thank you all very much. [00:10:55] I think that's all of our members. Uh, [00:10:58] we'll wrap it up. Uh, thank you all very [00:11:00] much for coming. The purpose of the [00:11:02] hearing was to focus on the children. I [00:11:05] think most everybody understands the [00:11:08] [clears throat] pain associated with [00:11:10] losing a child to an occupying force. [00:11:13] And we're trying to make sure that ever [00:11:15] how this war ends that it that the [00:11:17] children are brought back to their [00:11:19] families. That's the number one goal of [00:11:21] the hearing. Uh as to um you know how [00:11:25] this war ends, um I don't think any [00:11:29] plan's going to be forced on Ukraine. Um [00:11:32] I hope you will be able to talk with our [00:11:35] folks and I think you have and talk with [00:11:38] the Russians and we'll see if we can [00:11:39] bring this war to an end. If if you [00:11:41] believe Ukraine's going to evict every [00:11:44] Russian soldier, you're living in a [00:11:45] world that doesn't exist. If you believe [00:11:48] that [clears throat] Russia is going to [00:11:50] Kiev tomorrow, that that doesn't exist. [00:11:53] Uh NATO, all that stuff is important, [00:11:56] how big the military is, that's [00:11:58] important. But there's nothing more [00:12:00] important to me right now than trying to [00:12:01] get these kids back. And um learn from [00:12:05] 2014. Whatever we did in 2014 did not [00:12:08] work. [00:12:10] They invaded Ukraine and it was a [00:12:13] pathetic attempt to deter future [00:12:15] aggression. At every turn, we had a [00:12:18] chance to prevent this invasion. [00:12:21] Pre-invasion sanctions too provocative. [00:12:24] Give Ukraine something other than [00:12:26] goggles and blankets. Too provocative. [00:12:29] We are where we are. And my goal is to [00:12:31] end this war honorably and justly to the [00:12:34] extent that you can. And mainly to make [00:12:36] sure this doesn't happen again. that [00:12:38] Russia will not be uh allowed to invade [00:12:41] a third time because they'll be taking [00:12:43] on security guarantees that are [00:12:45] incredibly robust. That would include us [00:12:47] and European airlines allies that they'd [00:12:50] be actually fighting more than the [00:12:52] Ukrainian army. And I hope to make the [00:12:54] Ukrainian army very strong. It's already [00:12:56] very strong, but keep it strong. Um I [00:12:59] didn't come here to talk about how to [00:13:01] end the war, what you can accept or what [00:13:03] you can't. I came here to tell the world [00:13:06] we can't end this war until the children [00:13:09] are accounted for. Whether everybody [00:13:11] gets prosecuted or not, very seldom does [00:13:14] that happen in any war. [00:13:16] But it is unconscionable to end this war [00:13:20] without the world trying to get these [00:13:22] kids back. [00:13:24] Thank you all.