Charlie Kirk on Abortion, Responsibility, and Human Life

[00:00:00] I'm just curious. When would you guys [00:00:01] say human life begins? [00:00:04] >> That's like a philosophical question for [00:00:06] the ages. [00:00:07] >> When there's a heartbeat. [00:00:09] >> When there's a heartbeat. [00:00:10] >> Or no, I guess. [00:00:12] >> See, now we have three different [00:00:13] answers. So, I'm just We have a I will [00:00:15] presume a group of women because we all [00:00:17] you all self-described as women. I'm [00:00:19] kidding. Um, when does life begin? [00:00:22] >> Heartbeat. [00:00:24] >> I'm going still say at birth. Even [00:00:26] though I know that your cells can be [00:00:28] warm in a brain. in the uterus. Um, but [00:00:31] yeah, I think you're not fully a human [00:00:33] until you're born. [00:00:35] >> Okay. And you said heartbeat, right? [00:00:37] Okay. [00:00:38] >> I think it's very difficult to answer. I [00:00:40] think mostly consciousness and [00:00:41] personhood is really what people are [00:00:43] seeking to identify and I believe how [00:00:45] would you have I'm sure you haven't know [00:00:46] how long is like how many weeks is a [00:00:48] full term of pregnancy? [00:00:50] >> It's it's a good question. I know very [00:00:51] well. Uh it's uh it's about 38 39 weeks. [00:00:54] 40 is like at the furthest of just [00:00:56] >> 40 weeks. So as far as I know like [00:00:57] around 30 weeks is when you see like [00:00:59] typically like most development of the [00:01:01] fetus has taken place. So I would say [00:01:03] like around that but yeah no I mean so [00:01:05] heartbeat is right around 6 weeks. Brain [00:01:07] waves are even before that. Um and you [00:01:10] could do an ultrasound at right around [00:01:12] you could start do ultrasounds at 8 [00:01:13] weeks and you can see the full full [00:01:15] being uh right around 12 weeks and right [00:01:17] around 25 26 weeks are now the earliest [00:01:20] cases we have of babies that are able to [00:01:23] survive outside of the womb. Does anyone [00:01:24] have any other answers on that [00:01:27] >> of when? [00:01:28] >> No, I mean um I'm not like educated [00:01:31] scientifically enough about the biology [00:01:34] of all of it, but I agree. I think that [00:01:36] um life is a very subjective term. You [00:01:40] know, you could say uh when does the [00:01:42] infant's body in the womb start [00:01:44] functioning or you could say when do [00:01:46] they start perceiving [00:01:49] their consciousness? Um, and for me it's [00:01:53] when they start perceiving their [00:01:55] consciousness, but truly I have no idea [00:01:57] when that is. [00:01:58] >> Do you think it's Do you think it would [00:02:00] be important to Let me ask you this. If [00:02:02] if you knew for certain the baby, Would [00:02:04] you agree it's a baby? [00:02:06] >> Is that a good term to use if it's in a [00:02:08] a womb? Is that a baby? [00:02:09] >> I think most people would say fetus. [00:02:11] >> Fetus. Yeah. [00:02:12] >> Okay. So, what does fetus mean in Latin? [00:02:15] >> I think a fetus is a growing child. It's [00:02:17] a development, [00:02:18] >> right, Molly? You know, it means a [00:02:19] little human. [00:02:20] >> Yeah. Um, it's just using fetus is [00:02:22] nothing more than a cope for what you [00:02:24] know it is. It's a baby, right? So, it's [00:02:26] just [00:02:26] >> obviously not if we're here debating it. [00:02:28] I don't think it's a [00:02:29] >> You don't have to use the word fetus. It [00:02:30] makes people feel better. It's obviously [00:02:31] a baby. [00:02:31] >> No, I mean obviously you wouldn't take [00:02:33] like you know a fetus that just has like [00:02:36] a heart and like their brain isn't fully [00:02:38] formed and be like that's the same as [00:02:39] like a one-mon-old like we obviously see [00:02:42] differences between development from [00:02:43] then and there. [00:02:44] >> So, but then how about 30 weeks? [00:02:46] >> That's where it becomes a lot more [00:02:47] contentious. But the point being is that [00:02:49] we don't look at a fetus from its [00:02:51] beginning stages and be like, "Yeah, [00:02:52] that's the same thing as my like [00:02:54] 3-month-old cousin." [00:02:55] >> Hold on. That's a 9-month-old is not the [00:02:57] same thing as a one-month-old. [00:02:58] >> Okay. So, you can go through the [00:03:00] progression of development continues. [00:03:02] The question is when does it start? [00:03:04] >> Yeah, that's a million-dollar question. [00:03:06] I agree with that. Do you think [00:03:07] conception? [00:03:08] >> Of course. That's the only answer. [00:03:10] >> Most women, I don't believe even know [00:03:12] that they're pregnant before 6 weeks. So [00:03:14] like around like these the heartbeat [00:03:16] >> the the knowledge of your pregnancy [00:03:17] doesn't mean that you're not pregnant. [00:03:19] >> No, no, no. That's not what I'm saying. [00:03:20] But I'm saying like practicalitywise, [00:03:22] there are many instances of women who [00:03:24] act who have miscarriages without even [00:03:27] ever knowing because it might just [00:03:28] present as like a very heavy cycle that [00:03:30] month. [00:03:30] >> That's fine. But it doesn't make it any [00:03:32] less life, right? Sure. Go ahead, Molly. [00:03:34] >> No, but do you do you mourn that [00:03:36] miscarriage in the same way you mourn an [00:03:38] abortion like a [00:03:39] >> not the same way? No, it's not the same [00:03:41] way. No, but it's still it's still a [00:03:42] tragedy. A miscarriage is a tragedy, but [00:03:45] an abortion, [00:03:45] >> even if she doesn't know about it, [00:03:47] >> but an abortion is an act of human will. [00:03:49] A miscarriage most times is not. Now, [00:03:52] sometimes it can be a miscarriage [00:03:54] because you drank alcohol and you didn't [00:03:55] know you were pregnant or you might have [00:03:56] taken a drug that have side effects, but [00:03:59] yes, a mis a miscarriage is a tragedy. [00:04:01] Yes. [00:04:01] >> I have a question. Um, so [00:04:04] do you care about the children once [00:04:06] they're born? [00:04:07] >> I mean, I care a lot about them. Yeah. [00:04:09] So how so if a if say a woman got rword [00:04:14] worded or something say like she didn't [00:04:16] have a good life do you still think that [00:04:18] child deserves to be brought into the [00:04:20] world just to suffer? [00:04:21] >> Well so it's not a guarantee of [00:04:23] suffering number one sec the answer is [00:04:26] yes the life should be brought into the [00:04:27] world there are twice as many people on [00:04:29] the adoption waiting list than so many [00:04:32] people let me ask you guys and I I don't [00:04:34] I'm just curious how many abortions do [00:04:36] you think there are a year in America? I [00:04:37] have [00:04:37] >> tens of thousands, I assume. [00:04:39] >> Any other guesses? [00:04:40] >> No, I have no clue. [00:04:42] >> What if I told you there was over a [00:04:43] million abortions every year? [00:04:44] >> That wouldn't surprise me at all. [00:04:46] >> But you went from tens of thousands to a [00:04:48] million. [00:04:48] >> I mean, there's billions of people on [00:04:50] the on the [00:04:51] >> Yeah, there's 340 million in America. [00:04:53] That's right. No, but do you think does [00:04:54] it [00:04:54] >> as far as like reported ones? Because [00:04:56] even just reported data is going to be [00:04:57] incomplete because [00:04:58] >> it doesn't count mythopressinone, which [00:05:00] is the chemical abortion that people [00:05:02] have at home. It doesn't count plan B, [00:05:03] right? And even if like abortion were [00:05:05] illegal, for example, we stopped [00:05:06] gathering data on like who procures [00:05:08] abortions, there would be so many. [00:05:10] There's so many now, even with states [00:05:12] where it's still legal. [00:05:13] >> Texas, it's gone down dramatically. So [00:05:14] hundreds of [00:05:15] >> No, they're still happening. It's just [00:05:17] not being accounted for. 90% of [00:05:19] >> women are just doing it to themselves, [00:05:20] >> right? It's a 90% abortion reduction [00:05:22] rate in Texas. I don't want to dwell on [00:05:23] that too much, though. I'm just So [00:05:25] there's a million abortions every single [00:05:27] year, and there's twice as many people [00:05:30] on the adopt there's two million people [00:05:31] actively on the adoption waiting list. [00:05:33] So there's really no such thing [00:05:35] currently, there could be, but currently [00:05:36] of an unwanted child. So there's 2 [00:05:38] million people wanting to adopt and [00:05:41] there's a million people that have [00:05:42] abortions every single year. So there's [00:05:44] twice as many people that want to get a [00:05:46] child. Now, there's a longer [00:05:48] conversation about making it less [00:05:49] bureaucratic without allowing bad people [00:05:51] to adopt kids for bad reasons. I'm [00:05:54] perfectly open for that conversation, [00:05:55] but um to answer your question, I don't [00:05:58] love the premise. It's a good It's a [00:06:00] really good question because a lot of [00:06:01] people have it. I don't necessarily [00:06:03] believe being born in poverty is a death [00:06:06] sentence or is a reason to terminate. [00:06:08] No, no. I But abortion is a death [00:06:10] sentence. [00:06:10] >> I think there are frivolous reasons to [00:06:12] procure abortions, but I don't believe [00:06:13] that that just because there are [00:06:14] frivolous reasons to get them, that [00:06:15] means it should be outlawed. [00:06:17] >> But should murder be outlawed? [00:06:19] >> Yeah. But like you were saying, you even [00:06:22] though you believe that those women have [00:06:24] a hand in committing the murder and [00:06:25] infanticide basically of their own [00:06:27] children, they shouldn't go to jail. [00:06:28] >> They have not been given informed [00:06:29] consent. Do you have that opinion with [00:06:31] people who are addicted to drugs? [00:06:33] >> Do you think only drug dealers should go [00:06:34] to jail but not people who actually try [00:06:36] to buy drugs and consume them? [00:06:37] >> It depends. It depends what drug it is. [00:06:38] It depends the category, the class, the [00:06:40] >> Is there a single drug where you would [00:06:41] say that somebody who is buying and [00:06:42] consuming drugs that they are addicted [00:06:44] to should not be going to jail, but [00:06:46] they're only their drug dealer should be [00:06:47] going to jail. [00:06:48] >> I mean, I think fentanyl and heroin [00:06:50] potentially, but it's a completely [00:06:51] separate issue because a lot of people [00:06:53] know the informed consent of heroin and [00:06:54] fentanyl. It's not like we have PSAs, we [00:06:56] have billboards, stop using fentanyl, [00:06:58] stop doing fentanyl. How many times have [00:06:59] you heard that? Have you ever [00:07:00] >> But they have a chemical deficiency now [00:07:02] that prevents them from being able to [00:07:03] make that choice. [00:07:04] >> How often have we ever had an honest [00:07:05] conversation with women in this country [00:07:07] saying that having an abortion increases [00:07:09] the threat the chances for depression, [00:07:11] anxiety, medication, dependence. Um, so [00:07:14] does having a kid. [00:07:15] >> What? [00:07:16] >> Having children carries all of those [00:07:18] same risks. [00:07:19] >> You think having children goes into you [00:07:21] think having children [00:07:22] >> No, don't mischaracterize me. That's not [00:07:24] true. [00:07:24] >> I'm not going to say that having a child [00:07:26] necessarily gives you depression. And [00:07:27] then that's what she said. [00:07:29] >> It can come with it. Like postpartum [00:07:31] depression for example is extremely [00:07:32] common. [00:07:32] >> It's temporary and shortlived. And [00:07:34] obviously [00:07:35] >> not always [00:07:38] temporary and shortlived. That's not [00:07:40] permanent. [00:07:41] >> But when years of living with postpartum [00:07:43] depression can simply constitute a [00:07:45] temporary medical issue. [00:07:47] >> Let's theoretically even grant. So So [00:07:49] you're saying because of potential [00:07:50] postpartum depression or financial [00:07:52] burdens, the moral answer is allow women [00:07:55] to go in. [00:07:56] >> No, that was never my argument. This had [00:07:57] nothing to do with morality. This was a [00:07:58] completely separate question. I'm only [00:08:00] saying that I feel like you're [00:08:01] trivializing and downplaying how serious [00:08:03] conditions like postpartum depression [00:08:04] can be when you want to write it off as [00:08:06] like a temporary medical obviously when [00:08:08] it can be yearslong battle. [00:08:10] >> Having children is a serious choice out. [00:08:12] So what percentage of abortions [00:08:14] according to the Gutmcker Institute are [00:08:16] not not life of the mother. What [00:08:18] percentage would you say? [00:08:19] >> Probably the vast majority. [00:08:20] >> 97%. So is abortion now birth control? [00:08:23] Yes or no? [00:08:25] >> No, I don't think so. I think that's uh [00:08:27] situational to each and every [00:08:29] >> Molly. Do you think that birth control [00:08:31] it could be called birth control in [00:08:32] certain [00:08:33] >> because you're talking about over a [00:08:34] million abortion, but there's tens of [00:08:35] millions of women that are on birth [00:08:37] control that are that have IUDs that [00:08:39] take birth control pills. So obviously [00:08:41] that's not the only reason why. [00:08:42] >> But it's a form of birth control, isn't [00:08:44] it? [00:08:44] >> It's a form of birth control, but it's [00:08:46] you acknowledge that it's not the [00:08:48] predominant form of birth control. [00:08:49] >> No, I didn't say that. No, hold on. I [00:08:50] said it's birth control. [00:08:51] >> Yeah, but we're not disagreeing with the [00:08:52] category. I'm talking about the [00:08:53] prevalence of If it's birth control, [00:08:55] then why would we allow it to continue [00:08:58] if it's not if you put the life the [00:09:01] mother who we can debate? [00:09:02] >> I didn't. [00:09:03] >> But no, I'm going to put that aside for [00:09:04] a second. Then why should we allow a [00:09:06] horrific procedure [00:09:08] >> to continue that has such heavy and dire [00:09:11] consequences and results in a child not [00:09:13] being able to live outside of the womb? [00:09:15] >> You're loading it so much by saying a [00:09:16] horrific procedure. Most women who [00:09:18] procure abortions actually report being [00:09:21] happy longterm because they made the [00:09:22] choice. Because there's many different [00:09:24] reasons why women get abortion. Some [00:09:25] women aren't in a financial position to [00:09:26] have a child at that time and actually [00:09:28] decide to have children later. [00:09:29] >> How'd they get pregnant? [00:09:30] >> What do you mean? They had sex [00:09:31] unprotected or an accident. [00:09:33] >> So they they want the orgasm without the [00:09:35] responsibility. [00:09:36] >> Do you think the majority of women are [00:09:38] having orgasms and sex? Are you serious? [00:09:41] >> Have you seen the studies on orgasm gaps [00:09:43] between men and women? I'll [00:09:44] >> be honest. So they want all the [00:09:45] pleasure. They want all [00:09:47] >> but it's it's you want you want all the [00:09:49] loose lifestyle but none of the [00:09:51] responsibilities. [00:09:52] >> Now now you're you're framing it like [00:09:53] the punishment for have it should like [00:09:55] orgasm should be punished. No no the way [00:09:57] that you're framing it which is not a [00:09:59] punishment. You want the loosey goosey [00:10:00] parts of sex like the orgasm but you [00:10:02] don't want the responsibility of a [00:10:03] child. It's like yeah some people want [00:10:04] to be able to have sex. [00:10:06] >> Okay. No you you articulate it [00:10:07] perfectly. You I'm going to be able to [00:10:09] have sex how I want and if I have to go [00:10:11] put a dagger through have someone put a [00:10:12] dagger through a child for me then so be [00:10:14] it.