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[00:00:01] [Music]
[00:00:12] The Charlie Kirk show begins in 10
[00:00:15] seconds.
[00:00:19] [Music]
[00:00:32] [Applause]
[00:00:39] The Charlie Kirk Show starts now.
[00:00:42] >> Today, Charlie Kirk rests in glory in
[00:00:45] heaven for all eternity. He has gone
[00:00:49] from speaking on campuses in Wisconsin
[00:00:52] to kneeling at the throne of God where
[00:00:54] he is right now.
[00:00:56] >> Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is
[00:00:58] Christ speaking, except a corn of wheat
[00:01:02] fall onto the ground and die, it abideth
[00:01:05] alone. But if it die, it bringeth forth
[00:01:09] much fruit. And I want to thank Charlie
[00:01:13] for his sacrifice because much fruit is
[00:01:16] going to be realized. Now, I want you to
[00:01:18] know that Charlie right now is in
[00:01:20] heaven.
[00:01:22] Not because he was a great husband and
[00:01:25] father. Not because he saved millions of
[00:01:29] kids out of darkness on college
[00:01:31] campuses.
[00:01:32] Not because
[00:01:35] he changed minds and chased votes to
[00:01:37] save the country. Not because he
[00:01:41] sacrificed himself for his savior.
[00:01:45] Charlie Kirk is in heaven because his
[00:01:47] savior sacrificed himself for Charlie
[00:01:50] Kirk.
[00:01:51] >> But the main thing about Charlie and his
[00:01:53] message, he was bringing the gospel to
[00:01:57] the country. He was doing the thing that
[00:02:00] the people in charge hate most, which is
[00:02:03] calling for them to repent. I believe
[00:02:06] Charlie is still urging us on, urging us
[00:02:09] not to sit back, not to be quiet, but to
[00:02:11] carry on his mission forward, loudly,
[00:02:15] proudly, and with the same conviction he
[00:02:17] showed.
[00:02:19] >> Sacrifice is a gift.
[00:02:22] Sacrifice is that last full measure of
[00:02:25] devotion for God, for country, and for
[00:02:29] his people. We will devote the rest of
[00:02:32] our lives
[00:02:35] to finishing the causes for which
[00:02:38] Charlie gave his last measure of
[00:02:40] devotion.
[00:02:42] You cannot defeat us. You cannot slow
[00:02:44] us. You cannot stop us. You cannot deter
[00:02:47] us. We will carry Charlie and Erica in
[00:02:50] our heart. But we go forward
[00:02:53] strengthened by his faith and bolstered
[00:02:55] by his courage and inspired by his
[00:02:57] example to defend the country. He lived
[00:03:01] for.
[00:03:02] >> You see, Charlie Kirk was a true
[00:03:04] believer for the cause of freedom, for
[00:03:07] the power of young people, belief in our
[00:03:10] republic and our founding principles in
[00:03:12] America first and make America great
[00:03:15] again.
[00:03:17] But more importantly,
[00:03:20] he was a true believer.
[00:03:24] Only Christ is king, our Lord and
[00:03:27] Savior.
[00:03:29] The lesson of Charlie's life is that you
[00:03:31] should never underestimate what one
[00:03:33] person can do with a good heart, a
[00:03:37] righteous cause, a cheerful spirit, and
[00:03:40] the will to fight, fight, fight.
[00:03:44] Charlie lived what our founders
[00:03:47] envisioned.
[00:03:48] Freedom, the right to speak even when we
[00:03:51] disagree. Freedom.
[00:03:54] I may not agree with what you say, but I
[00:03:56] will fight to defend to the death with
[00:03:59] my very life your right to speak.
[00:04:03] >> Now, our whole administration is here,
[00:04:05] but not just because we love Charlie as
[00:04:08] a friend, even though we did, but
[00:04:10] because we know we wouldn't be here
[00:04:12] without him.
[00:04:13] >> In the words of Saurin Kiergard,
[00:04:16] the tyrant dies and his rule is over.
[00:04:19] The martyr dies and his rule has just
[00:04:22] begun.
[00:04:24] On the cross, our savior said,
[00:04:31] "Father, forgive them for they not know
[00:04:35] what they do."
[00:04:39] That man,
[00:04:42] that young man,
[00:04:47] I forgive him.
[00:04:51] [Applause]
[00:05:11] [Applause]
[00:05:17] [Music]
[00:05:52] [Music]
[00:06:46] [Music]
[00:06:53] Every day there's a battle for your mind
[00:06:55] raging. Information coming from every
[00:06:58] angle with the will to deceive. Fear
[00:07:01] not. You found the place for truth. The
[00:07:03] voice of a generation that still has the
[00:07:05] will to believe in the greatest country
[00:07:08] in the history of the world. This is the
[00:07:10] Charlie Kirk Show. Buckle up. Here we
[00:07:15] go. Everybody, welcome to the Charlie
[00:07:18] Kirk Show. This is Andrew Kvet,
[00:07:22] executive producer of this show. And
[00:07:23] that empty chair reminds us of Charlie's
[00:07:26] legacy, his memory, and the fact that
[00:07:29] political violence took his life and
[00:07:32] assassination did. And this morning we
[00:07:34] awoke to more news of political violence
[00:07:38] targeted at ICE in Texas. And to start
[00:07:42] off the show and we we had a whole show
[00:07:44] planned, but I thought it was important
[00:07:45] that we do this simply. It it hit hits
[00:07:47] very close to home for this team, I can
[00:07:50] tell you. And so I wanted to have
[00:07:51] Borders Tom Hman kick off the top of the
[00:07:54] show with us. So uh Bordersar Homeman,
[00:07:58] uh thank you for joining us. Uh what can
[00:08:00] you tell us about what happened in
[00:08:01] Texas?
[00:08:04] Well, this morning a lone gunman uh was
[00:08:06] targeting an ICE facility in Dallas,
[00:08:08] Texas. Uh it's where aliens are
[00:08:11] processed either for removal or transfer
[00:08:13] to a facility. Uh and it like again,
[00:08:15] it's the third shooting that's occurred
[00:08:18] in Texas against immigration officials.
[00:08:21] And we had a shooter show up at a border
[00:08:24] trying to kill Bord Patrol agents. He
[00:08:27] was killed by agents. Then we had a a
[00:08:30] group of people show up with weapons at
[00:08:33] ICE detention facility in Alvaralda,
[00:08:35] Texas, and tried to kill ICE agents. And
[00:08:38] they did shoot one officer, a local
[00:08:40] police officer who's also responding to
[00:08:41] the scene. And now we have this today
[00:08:43] where a lone gunman uh stood at perch
[00:08:46] and and opened up on um ice during a
[00:08:49] transportation transfer. And uh we know
[00:08:53] we have at least two dead and uh uh
[00:08:56] officers are uninjured. And it later was
[00:08:59] announced by Cash Patel that one of the
[00:09:01] bullets had an anti-ICE
[00:09:04] slogan on the bullet. So this was
[00:09:05] clearly a targeted attack against ICE.
[00:09:09] Well, um, Borders are I I I just know
[00:09:13] that Charlie, this is his show, he was
[00:09:16] such a supporter of yours and was
[00:09:18] worried for our brave men and women in
[00:09:21] law enforcement that were doing what the
[00:09:23] voters had voted for and very very
[00:09:26] clearly to remove illegal aliens from
[00:09:29] this country. And we've seen these stats
[00:09:33] uh that the targetings are on the
[00:09:35] increase that assaults against ICE
[00:09:37] officers. Are we still seeing a ramp up?
[00:09:40] I mean, this instance is awful. Thank
[00:09:43] God no law enforcement were harmed or
[00:09:45] injured, but you know, our prayers are
[00:09:47] with the families of the detainees that
[00:09:49] have lost their lives, but are we seeing
[00:09:52] this continue to ramp up across the
[00:09:54] country? Are we still seeing it go up?
[00:09:56] Are we seeing any calming down of the
[00:09:58] violence and the attacks against ICE
[00:10:00] officers?
[00:10:01] >> First of all, you're right. I've had I
[00:10:03] had many discussions with Charlie and he
[00:10:05] always end the discussion to be safe and
[00:10:08] uh and that ICE officers should be safe
[00:10:11] because the rhetoric has continued to
[00:10:13] increase. Assaults on ICE officers are
[00:10:15] up over a,000%. And know that rhetoric
[00:10:17] hasn't stopped. And I said months ago,
[00:10:20] months ago that the hateful rhetoric
[00:10:22] didn't decrease,
[00:10:24] it's going to end in bloodshed.
[00:10:25] someone's going to die. And of course, I
[00:10:27] was called a fearmonger. You know, the
[00:10:29] left says I was, you know, making
[00:10:30] irresponsible comments. Unfortunately, I
[00:10:33] was right. And uh just this past
[00:10:36] weekend, we saw protest turn criminal.
[00:10:38] Chicago and in Boston. I mean uh in
[00:10:42] Chicago, the ICE facilities under
[00:10:43] attack. Portland in Portland, Oregon,
[00:10:47] the ice facility there has been under
[00:10:48] attack for months. So, you know, no, it
[00:10:51] has not slowed down. either has the
[00:10:53] hateful rhetoric from some up on hill,
[00:10:56] some our congressional representatives
[00:10:57] and and and other people who are in a
[00:11:00] position where that that small that
[00:11:02] small fraction I'll say on the left that
[00:11:05] you know not every not you know not
[00:11:07] everybody on the left is a bad person.
[00:11:08] Most of them you know aren't but there's
[00:11:10] that fraction that listens to this
[00:11:12] rhetoric and they feel empowered to take
[00:11:16] action against ICE. If you got a member
[00:11:17] of Congress comparing ICE to the secret
[00:11:19] police, which is a direct affiliation
[00:11:21] with the Nazis, or call them straight
[00:11:22] out Nazis to terrorists, or Governor
[00:11:24] Nuomo just recently said the secret
[00:11:26] police, I mean, he just he just passed
[00:11:28] legislation about secret police. I mean,
[00:11:30] bottom line is that rhetoric is causing
[00:11:33] some of this um violence and and and
[00:11:36] I've been calling for people stop the
[00:11:38] hateful rhetoric because it's it's more
[00:11:40] are going to be hurt. And matter of
[00:11:42] fact, when we talked about the person
[00:11:43] that was shot uh at the Albert Bravo
[00:11:46] City and we talked about the the the
[00:11:48] gunman that was killed at the Bor Patrol
[00:11:50] City, I said at that time there's going
[00:11:52] to be more if the rhetoric doesn't stop.
[00:11:55] I've seen this I've seen this game
[00:11:56] before. I've seen this story before and
[00:11:58] I just hate to see it right now. I hope
[00:12:00] you know between what you know happened
[00:12:02] to our officers across the country, what
[00:12:04] happened to Charlie and what's happened
[00:12:06] today. I mean, you know, at what point
[00:12:09] do people just, you know,
[00:12:12] stop the hate? You can disagree what ICE
[00:12:14] does, but taking those sort of actions,
[00:12:16] there's there's it's just it's
[00:12:18] unbelievable. There's no excuse for it.
[00:12:20] >> I want to show you a graphic. I'm going
[00:12:22] to put up a graphic. It's it's basically
[00:12:24] who which groups justify violence based
[00:12:28] on age and political affiliation. And if
[00:12:30] you could put up 141,
[00:12:33] this is the question, is it ever
[00:12:35] justified for citizens to resort to
[00:12:37] violence in order to to achieve
[00:12:39] political goals? And this is the
[00:12:40] percentage responding yes. And you can
[00:12:43] see there
[00:12:45] uh Tom at 18 to 39year-old liberal
[00:12:49] progressives. That's 30% believe that
[00:12:52] sometimes
[00:12:54] violence is justified to achieve a
[00:12:56] political goal. And I believe, you know,
[00:12:59] that matches with what happened to
[00:13:01] Charlie. I don't know the, you know, the
[00:13:03] age of this particular shooter in Texas,
[00:13:07] but we are seeing a an alarming rise.
[00:13:10] And and by the way, it's worth noting
[00:13:12] conservatives 18 to 39 are the most
[00:13:14] peaceful node on there besides moderates
[00:13:17] over 60. So, we're doing our part on the
[00:13:20] right to quell the violence, to quell
[00:13:22] the rhetoric, to to to say, "Lean into
[00:13:25] Jesus. Do not give into hate. forgive
[00:13:27] your enemies. We have to find a solution
[00:13:30] here. And yet that one node, you can see
[00:13:33] it. It sticks out like a sore thumb
[00:13:34] there, Tom. Uh 18 to 39 30% of them
[00:13:38] believes just violence can be justified.
[00:13:40] Your thoughts?
[00:13:44] >> Well, it's it's not the country I grew
[00:13:46] up in. I mean, you never heard of this
[00:13:48] when I went to college. You never heard
[00:13:51] kind of this. It's justification for
[00:13:53] violence ever. Uh I really think that uh
[00:13:56] many of the colleges have failed us on
[00:13:59] you know
[00:14:01] and also think that the the negative
[00:14:03] publicity being pushed by 90% of the
[00:14:05] media 90% of the media constantly
[00:14:08] attacking this administration and the
[00:14:10] work we're doing and I've said it before
[00:14:12] I think there's groups out there that
[00:14:14] hate President Trump more than they love
[00:14:17] their communities and more than they you
[00:14:19] know have any common sense. It's there's
[00:14:21] no reason for it. I mean, it's just it's
[00:14:23] out of control. And you're right,
[00:14:25] >> the last four years under Biden
[00:14:26] administration, everybody was angry
[00:14:28] about the border. Everybody was angry
[00:14:30] about what he the number of Americans
[00:14:32] dying from fentanyl, the the the vast
[00:14:35] increase in sex trafficking, the cartels
[00:14:38] have placement in this country, killing
[00:14:40] millions millions of Americans with
[00:14:41] poison. You didn't see that
[00:14:43] counterprotest that turned criminal. So,
[00:14:46] it's it's mainly on one side and and
[00:14:49] again, I'm hoping today on top of
[00:14:51] everything that's happened in the last
[00:14:53] few months. Just let's stop the hate.
[00:14:56] Well, let's have a let's have a
[00:14:57] meaningful debate, which Charlie was all
[00:14:59] supportive. Let's have a debate about
[00:15:01] the issues. Let's get back to talking.
[00:15:03] >> Yep. Rather than putting bullets in a
[00:15:05] firearm.
[00:15:05] >> Tom, I want to make this personal. About
[00:15:07] one minute remaining. I know that you
[00:15:10] this kind of rhetoric has directly
[00:15:12] impacted your life and your family. if
[00:15:14] you if whatever details you can share. I
[00:15:16] want the audience to know what the real
[00:15:17] impact is for real people like yourself.
[00:15:20] One minute.
[00:15:22] >> I have a 247 uh security detail because
[00:15:26] of threats against me. I don't live with
[00:15:28] my family because um I don't want them
[00:15:33] around danger as much as I can. So, you
[00:15:36] know, it's it's it's tough, but I'm not
[00:15:38] going away. I'm not shutting up. I'm
[00:15:41] going to continue fighting to make this
[00:15:43] country great again. President Trump
[00:15:44] made a promise to American people. He
[00:15:46] brought me to help him in that promise
[00:15:47] to make America safe again and we're
[00:15:50] going to continue working to remove the
[00:15:52] worst of the worst illegal animals in
[00:15:53] this country to make our community
[00:15:55] safer. Hard stop.
[00:15:57] >> Well, God bless you, sir. Thank you for
[00:15:59] joining the show. I thought it was
[00:16:00] important to lead with that and uh on
[00:16:03] behalf of a grateful nation, Tom, thank
[00:16:05] you for your service. Thank you for your
[00:16:06] courage. Thank you for your voice and
[00:16:08] thank you for the results because this
[00:16:10] is what the American people voted for
[00:16:12] and we will not be deterred. The truth
[00:16:15] will be the truth and we cannot be cowed
[00:16:18] by these vigilantes and we got to do
[00:16:20] something about it but we will not be
[00:16:22] cowed. Tom Hman, thank you so much.
[00:16:23] Borders are for the Trump
[00:16:25] administration.
[00:16:27] >> Thank you, sir.
[00:16:29] >> More when we get back from break. We'll
[00:16:31] be right back.
[00:16:50] I think it should be but it's not being
[00:16:52] enforced, right? So why shouldn't why
[00:16:54] should we let our cities be ransacked
[00:16:55] but not um legalize it and make it safer
[00:16:59] and make it regulated?
[00:17:00] >> There is no safe fentanyl.
[00:17:02] There is no safe heroin. doesn't exist.
[00:17:04] >> But pure heroin, if you sold it in a
[00:17:07] store, would be safe, right?
[00:17:08] >> Again, not only can you still overdose,
[00:17:10] let's just talk the more moral that what
[00:17:13] an ugly society that would be if heroin
[00:17:15] is considered to be something
[00:17:16] commercialized.
[00:17:18] All of a sudden, you're going to see
[00:17:19] heroin commercials. Like, oh yeah, you
[00:17:21] think that your day is bad, it's okay.
[00:17:22] Go get a little bit of heroin at the
[00:17:24] local Walgreens. We laugh, but that's
[00:17:27] where we're headed. That's the society.
[00:17:29] >> That's not where we're headed. You can
[00:17:31] you can um keep living your life and and
[00:17:33] living by your body.
[00:17:34] >> Law is a teacher. The law should reflect
[00:17:36] morality.
[00:17:37] >> Okay.
[00:17:38] >> Definitionally. So,
[00:17:40] >> thank you.
[00:17:41] >> Okay. Yeah. Can I get a hat?
[00:17:44] >> Yes.
[00:17:46] >> I'll sign it. Yeah.
[00:17:49] >> Okay. Thanks.
[00:17:50] >> Yes. Other questions that disagree? Go
[00:17:52] to the front. Yeah.
[00:17:54] >> Yes. Go ahead.
[00:17:57] >> Got it.
[00:17:58] >> Don't touch it.
[00:17:59] >> Okay. All right, Charlie, you had done a
[00:18:01] show on your or a segment on your show
[00:18:04] about uh Governor Tim Walls. You know,
[00:18:06] it was it was funny. It was cute. He was
[00:18:08] looking at the um the
[00:18:11] excuse me, it was looking at his uh
[00:18:15] podcast appearance with Gavin Newsome.
[00:18:18] He said he wanted to get into a fight.
[00:18:19] It was it was just goofy gesting. And
[00:18:22] you know, you showed a video of him
[00:18:24] trying to shoot a shotgun. It didn't
[00:18:26] work out well, but I just figured
[00:18:28] >> he didn't know how to load a shotgun.
[00:18:29] There you go. So, my point is though, I
[00:18:31] figured as a political commentator, you
[00:18:33] would prefer to have a substantive
[00:18:35] discussion about the economic policies
[00:18:37] that he has passed. And I have some
[00:18:40] listed here. Forgive me, the list is a
[00:18:42] little long, but it has price tags on
[00:18:44] what it would be estimated to cost to
[00:18:47] implement these policies in the United
[00:18:48] States. And I just would like to get
[00:18:50] your opinion on a few of them. Free
[00:18:52] breakfast and lunch for kids. Making
[00:18:54] sure that children can eat in school.
[00:18:57] That's not what it
[00:18:58] >> $20 billion per year.
[00:19:00] >> Legalizing marijuana. I've gotten your
[00:19:02] opinion on that. That's a net savings
[00:19:04] of8 billion per year.
[00:19:05] >> Carbon-f free electricity by 2050.
[00:19:08] Terrible. $41 billion per year.
[00:19:11] >> We have 12 weeks paid family sick leave
[00:19:13] costing 45 billion.
[00:19:15] >> Is this what he did in Minnesota or what
[00:19:16] he
[00:19:17] >> That's correct. It's what he did in
[00:19:18] Minnesota. And these costs are the
[00:19:20] projected costs of what it would cost to
[00:19:23] implement these things.
[00:19:24] >> Keep keep working through the list and
[00:19:25] then I have a question.
[00:19:26] >> Okay. So banning gay decon conversion
[00:19:28] therapy a savings of9 billion
[00:19:30] >> an attack on freedom of speech. How does
[00:19:31] that save $9 billion? You got to explain
[00:19:33] that one. So So banning
[00:19:35] >> having the de the deconversion therapy.
[00:19:36] >> No explain. No don't just read off the p
[00:19:39] explain to me. Use your reason how
[00:19:41] banning therapy saves $9 billion.
[00:19:44] >> Let's go through the rest of the list.
[00:19:45] I'll come back to that point as well.
[00:19:46] Now I still have a few more red flag
[00:19:49] laws. If someone says that if they want
[00:19:51] to shoot up a school, then they the
[00:19:54] government has a right to confiscate
[00:19:55] that person's
[00:19:56] >> That is not what a red flag law is. For
[00:19:58] the record, a red flag law is that
[00:20:00] somebody like a spouse who's in a
[00:20:01] dispute could wrongfully accuse their
[00:20:04] husband who's a veteran. Oh, he's
[00:20:06] violent or whatever, even though he
[00:20:07] isn't, and his rights get taken away. Or
[00:20:09] even worse, a husband can say it against
[00:20:11] his wife and she's not able to protect
[00:20:13] herself. Red flag laws are not that at
[00:20:15] all. And by the way, if someone says
[00:20:16] they're going to shoot up a school,
[00:20:17] they're going to get arrested. They're
[00:20:18] not going to have their guns taken away.
[00:20:19] >> This has happened in the past and it
[00:20:21] they have
[00:20:21] >> Yeah. You know who's friends with school
[00:20:22] shooters? Tim Walls is friends with
[00:20:24] school shooters.
[00:20:25] >> That point, but let's
[00:20:26] >> Oh, yeah. They bring up that point
[00:20:27] because that's what he said. He's like,
[00:20:29] I'm friends with school shooters. That's
[00:20:30] really creepy and weird. of all
[00:20:36] of these are
[00:20:51] >> wrong to put your political opponents in
[00:20:53] jail.
[00:20:55] >> I believe it is wrong. And we saw that
[00:20:58] right before he got elected that they
[00:21:00] said turn it all off all. I think that
[00:21:02] we should have had a much deeper
[00:21:03] investigation.
[00:21:05] >> Okay. Thank you very much.
[00:21:06] >> Have a great day.
[00:21:07] >> Yeah.
[00:21:08] >> Who wants a hat, everybody?
[00:21:15] [Applause]
[00:21:17] >> All right. I had a question about uh I'm
[00:21:19] Tyler, by the way. I had a question. My
[00:21:20] girlfriend and I have differing
[00:21:22] political beliefs. We voted differently.
[00:21:24] Uh we're both Christians. We have a lot
[00:21:26] of the same beliefs about how humans
[00:21:27] should be treated, abortion, that type
[00:21:29] of thing. But, uh, identity politics a
[00:21:32] little bit. Um, not liking candidates
[00:21:34] based on their personality versus their
[00:21:36] policy kind of divided us. Also,
[00:21:38] prioritization of policies. So, she's a
[00:21:41] little more foreign helping. And I think
[00:21:43] we should be more focused domestically
[00:21:45] right now with the damage we've, you
[00:21:47] know, taken on the last four years. So,
[00:21:49] how should we handle our relationship
[00:21:52] when we have a lot of the same values
[00:21:53] but differing political beliefs?
[00:21:56] >> It's a really good question. So, would
[00:21:59] you say that even outside of Trump,
[00:22:01] would you still largely agree on
[00:22:03] politics or No.
[00:22:13] [Music]
[00:22:20] All right, welcome back to the Charlie
[00:22:21] Kirk show. This is Andrew Kovvet,
[00:22:23] executive producer of this show. I am uh
[00:22:26] joined by Blake Nef, one of the
[00:22:29] producers,
[00:22:31] as well as the great Dr. James our
[00:22:35] honored to have you, doctor, on the
[00:22:37] show.
[00:22:38] I I'm candidly of all the conversations
[00:22:41] I've had and I've had we've had some
[00:22:43] amazing guests and some amazing
[00:22:45] conversations over the last uh couple of
[00:22:48] weeks, this is probably the one I'm most
[00:22:50] excited about because of the way that
[00:22:53] you and I got to meet. Charlie was
[00:22:56] there. Uh you met Charlie on his when he
[00:22:59] went to Cambridge and Oxford uh Oxbridge
[00:23:03] as you guys I guess call the grouping.
[00:23:05] But we then spent a weekend together in
[00:23:08] Aspen and we shared some just truly
[00:23:12] amazing moments. And you also sat down
[00:23:15] with Charlie for an interview which will
[00:23:17] now sort of in a in a haunting way but
[00:23:21] in a beautiful way because I know how
[00:23:23] much Charlie loved you. Your interview
[00:23:27] with Charlie on that Aspen trip was
[00:23:30] actually the last
[00:23:32] episode that went on the Charlie Kirk
[00:23:35] show broadcast before he was
[00:23:37] assassinated. So, it's a it's a weird
[00:23:42] thing, I'm sure, to for me for to hear
[00:23:44] that from me. It's weird for me to say
[00:23:46] it out loud, but it's true.
[00:23:49] And I just knew Charlie so well that
[00:23:56] again it's sort of fitting because you
[00:23:58] were like this academic ideological
[00:24:02] spiritual
[00:24:03] just shining light for Charlie. So much
[00:24:05] so that I was jealous when we got back
[00:24:07] from Aspen. Charlie looked at you and he
[00:24:09] was like can you hang out with me on
[00:24:11] Sunday and just like be my professor for
[00:24:13] a day? And as far as I know, you guys
[00:24:15] hung out on Sunday and you talked about
[00:24:18] the classics and about the cannon of
[00:24:20] Western civilization. And I love that
[00:24:23] because I know that that was bas
[00:24:26] basically the happiest you would ever
[00:24:27] see Charlie Kirk. So, thank you so much
[00:24:29] for giving him that day so close to the
[00:24:32] end and for just being somebody that he
[00:24:35] deeply deeply loved and appreciated.
[00:24:38] >> Well, Andrew, thank you. It's just so
[00:24:39] good to be with you despite the
[00:24:41] circumstances. And gosh, what a what a
[00:24:44] surreal few days it's been. What an
[00:24:47] extraordinary achievement you guys
[00:24:49] pulled off. I was so thrilled to have
[00:24:51] been able to make it to the stadium on
[00:24:52] Sunday for that that extraordinary day.
[00:24:55] And just so many thoughts going through
[00:24:57] my mind, but you know, I've been
[00:24:58] teaching undergraduates, graduate
[00:25:01] students at Oxford and Cambridge on and
[00:25:02] off for 15 16 years. And I can say, you
[00:25:06] know, hand on heart, I had never come
[00:25:09] across a young person with that that
[00:25:12] thirst for knowledge, that thirst for
[00:25:14] intellectual formation, spiritual
[00:25:17] wisdom. You know, I spent weeks trying
[00:25:19] to trying to get him to call me James,
[00:25:22] but it was always always Dr. Ow. It's
[00:25:25] always this sort of extraordinary
[00:25:26] respect and humility that he had. And
[00:25:29] you're right, that last afternoon, just
[00:25:31] before I was getting off to the airport,
[00:25:34] uh I think that morning, a car was
[00:25:36] supposed to pick me up to take me to his
[00:25:37] apartment and uh uh um Mikey, Charlie's
[00:25:40] chief of staff, rang me and said, "I'
[00:25:42] I've cancelled the car." Said, "What?
[00:25:45] How am I going to how am I going to get
[00:25:46] to Charlie's apartment?" He said, "No,
[00:25:48] no, no. He wants to come and pick you up
[00:25:49] from the hotel so that he can have more
[00:25:52] time with you."
[00:25:54] And uh
[00:25:56] you know, we had we had a day together.
[00:25:59] We had a wonderful morning and uh went
[00:26:01] into his apartment and yeah 2 three
[00:26:04] hours of just philosophy just grilling
[00:26:05] me on his that big big whiteboard. He
[00:26:07] wanted me to you know map out moral
[00:26:09] philosophy helped. He was just prepping
[00:26:11] prepping prepping. What if I get this
[00:26:12] question? What if I get that question?
[00:26:14] It was just extraordinary and uh
[00:26:16] absorbing it all taking notes grilling
[00:26:20] me. Yes, I understand that point but how
[00:26:22] do I make it accessible? And there was
[00:26:24] always this sense of this the audience
[00:26:26] that he wanted to reach and and and not
[00:26:28] and not be in conflict with not not to
[00:26:31] not to sort of uh dunk on them at all
[00:26:34] but to but to but to inform them to
[00:26:36] educate them to to to to enlighten them
[00:26:38] just extraordinary. Then got back to
[00:26:40] London I'm getting texts from him Bible
[00:26:44] verses from him and then a text on oh
[00:26:47] that that lecture by Jean Paul Sry you
[00:26:50] mentioned on existentialism in 1946. can
[00:26:52] you send me a copy and can you explain
[00:26:54] to me that point okay let's do it and
[00:26:57] did that and then on the first my last
[00:26:59] text from him was on the 1st of
[00:27:01] September saying can you send me a
[00:27:04] lecture on natural law and and uh God
[00:27:08] help me I never got back to him. It was
[00:27:10] yeah it was it was a busy week and I
[00:27:14] thought I got to sit down and do this
[00:27:15] properly and and then you know by the
[00:27:17] time things had calmed down it it it had
[00:27:20] happened and um yeah I I'd never met
[00:27:23] anyone like him and you know you meet
[00:27:25] people you know that there's just you're
[00:27:27] going to be friends for for years and
[00:27:29] years and years and you're going to
[00:27:30] learn so much from each other and we had
[00:27:32] we had great plans. He was so excited
[00:27:35] about Britain. He loved it so much was
[00:27:37] staring now at this this photo of
[00:27:38] Winston Churchill and was so excited
[00:27:41] about what was happening on the right in
[00:27:43] in Britain and wanted to know exactly
[00:27:45] what all the kind of all the polling
[00:27:47] dynamics were and how he could help. Uh
[00:27:49] extraordinary.
[00:27:50] >> You were a a really important bridge for
[00:27:53] him and he was an Angloile begrudgingly
[00:27:56] but he he genuinely was and we'll get
[00:27:58] into more of that and what his trip to
[00:28:00] England I think really was all about.
[00:28:02] We'll be right back.
[00:28:03] >> Mhm.
[00:28:04] [Music]
[00:28:21] So yeah, I mean I mentioned just before
[00:28:24] we hit the break that Charlie was a a
[00:28:26] real anglophile.
[00:28:28] >> Mhm. I don't think that
[00:28:31] many Brits maybe appreciated that
[00:28:33] because he came into England and really
[00:28:36] lit up the leadership, lit up the
[00:28:38] current zeitgeist in the country. But I
[00:28:41] it has become clear to me
[00:28:44] that Charlie and I've said this a bunch
[00:28:46] of times and I'm just going to say it
[00:28:47] again for the sake of this conversation
[00:28:49] that Charlie was a modern prophet
[00:28:52] >> and he was going around campuses this
[00:28:54] country
[00:28:56] >> calling our leaders to repent calling
[00:28:58] our citizens to repent
[00:29:00] >> to remember themselves. And he went
[00:29:01] straight into the belly of the beast in
[00:29:03] Oxbridge
[00:29:05] >> and called on Brits to remember
[00:29:08] themselves. Stand up man. put your
[00:29:10] shoulders back. Remember who you are.
[00:29:12] You're a great people.
[00:29:14] >> Like, wake up.
[00:29:16] And just like they do with prophets, not
[00:29:20] only is Charlie dead, but in England,
[00:29:22] they rejected him.
[00:29:24] >> Tell me about your perspective on that.
[00:29:27] >> Well, I I think it was it I think it was
[00:29:30] Jordan Peterson who first connected us.
[00:29:32] I think about a year ago, I think, and
[00:29:34] so he was Charlie had been on my radar
[00:29:35] for a while. We had a lot of mutual
[00:29:37] friends, but he was very excited about
[00:29:39] his trip to England and started
[00:29:42] peppering me with texts and requests
[00:29:44] like what will the audience be like?
[00:29:46] What are the kinds of questions that I
[00:29:48] should be thinking about? What are the
[00:29:49] topics? You know, he was just prepping,
[00:29:51] prepping, prepping. And um yeah, so he
[00:29:54] came to Cambridge. I went to to the
[00:29:56] Cambridge Union to just give him some
[00:29:57] moral support uh with my with my son and
[00:30:00] half a dozen students and we were the
[00:30:02] the only ones supporting. I mean, my
[00:30:04] goodness, it was
[00:30:04] >> Oh, and Blake.
[00:30:05] >> And Blake, you were there, of course.
[00:30:06] And the team, you and you and you and
[00:30:08] the team were there. And uh and uh it
[00:30:10] was it was it was impressive. I mean, it
[00:30:12] was he was combative, he was quick, he
[00:30:15] was um I don't think anyone any of those
[00:30:17] students, and they were bright students.
[00:30:19] I was quite, you know, in a funny way
[00:30:20] proud of those those students. I mean,
[00:30:22] they were, you know, off the cliff
[00:30:24] progressive on a whole load on all the
[00:30:26] issues, but I thought they they stood
[00:30:28] their ground well. And um and then we
[00:30:31] went for this meal afterwards and just
[00:30:33] again 2 three hours of just talking and
[00:30:36] talking stats and I got a call from one
[00:30:38] of the this big media platform GB News
[00:30:41] just desperate to get half an hour of
[00:30:42] Charlie's time but it was it was down in
[00:30:44] London. It was just awkward to get to.
[00:30:46] Uh I said look I know this is difficult
[00:30:48] but if you could just you know would you
[00:30:50] consider this? And he said absolutely no
[00:30:52] problem. And you managed to fit it in to
[00:30:53] that very tight schedule.
[00:30:54] >> That was with Ben.
[00:30:56] >> Yes. That's right. With Ben that clip
[00:30:57] went viral. It was a good thing he
[00:30:59] fitted it.
[00:30:59] >> It's great he did it and it was much
[00:31:01] appreciated and uh so you know I think
[00:31:04] it was it was great and I sat in that
[00:31:07] debating chamber and thought this this
[00:31:09] is a proper debate. You know this is
[00:31:10] what this place was designed for and uh
[00:31:13] and this is really puncturing the group
[00:31:16] think in a way that is is pretty rare
[00:31:17] these days on elite campuses on both
[00:31:19] sides of the Atlantic. And uh it was we
[00:31:22] were fortunate to have him and uh
[00:31:25] >> images
[00:31:25] >> and then we've got some we got some
[00:31:27] images there. Yeah, there we go. The
[00:31:29] bouncy brick. The bouncy brit.
[00:31:32] >> Oh, bless him. Yeah, he he uh that was
[00:31:34] Charlie found that so funny. We got
[00:31:36] >> because he looks like a Harry Potter
[00:31:37] figure like character ass, you know.
[00:31:39] >> That's it. He was uh yeah uh quick on
[00:31:41] his feet just jumping up and down and uh
[00:31:44] yeah, amazing. I remember that so well.
[00:31:47] >> And uh it was it was just great to see.
[00:31:50] And as I said, it punctured the group
[00:31:51] think. And you know, I've I've said this
[00:31:52] before that that the trouble with uh
[00:31:54] with group think is that wrong think
[00:31:56] becomes evil think. You know, when
[00:31:58] there's just just this tiny minority
[00:31:59] opinion, then that it it just becomes
[00:32:02] subversive. It becomes something that is
[00:32:04] that is threatening. It's it's and so
[00:32:06] it's so easy to demonize. And what we
[00:32:09] saw both on both those debates was um
[00:32:12] Charlie's ability to put across cases
[00:32:16] and positions in a winsome, civil,
[00:32:19] respectful way. And you know, I think
[00:32:22] the assassination has is just it's
[00:32:24] triggered off a whole lot of very
[00:32:26] interesting debates on the free speech
[00:32:29] side of things, of course, and Charlie's
[00:32:31] great free speech warrior. We've been
[00:32:32] fighting a lot on free speech battles on
[00:32:34] university campuses. And uh but you
[00:32:37] know, if this is if this is how it ends,
[00:32:39] if one side is so quick to resort in the
[00:32:41] end to lawfare or warfare or violence,
[00:32:44] what do we do? Where does that leave
[00:32:46] liberalism? Where does where does that
[00:32:47] leave on? I don't you know we've seen
[00:32:50] the reaction around the world but those
[00:32:52] Cambridge students who came out to
[00:32:54] support Charlie last May how how have
[00:32:56] they reacted to this?
[00:32:58] >> Well they've I tell you they've been in
[00:32:59] they've been in in pieces they've
[00:33:01] they've it's it's been very upsetting
[00:33:02] for them and my son in particular who
[00:33:05] just worshiped Charlie and uh Charlie
[00:33:08] recorded a little video for him actually
[00:33:09] when we I was here at the offices uh a
[00:33:11] month ago. It's been very hard and even
[00:33:13] those who who didn't know him at all. I
[00:33:15] mean, we gathered the two days after it
[00:33:18] happened, Friday, it was the Friday
[00:33:20] evening outside Downing Street,
[00:33:21] >> a pretty spontaneous vigil, thousands
[00:33:24] and thousands of people around the
[00:33:25] Senate off and Whiteall just so moving,
[00:33:27] just this very kind of very unusual to
[00:33:30] see that in in London. It just sort of
[00:33:32] um it was there was there was a sense of
[00:33:35] great great kind of peace and love.
[00:33:37] >> Take radio back here.
[00:33:38] >> Yeah, we'll we'll we'll take radio back,
[00:33:39] but I love where this is going. Uh stay
[00:33:42] right there.
[00:33:50] Welcome back to radio stations across
[00:33:52] the country. We have Dr. James our who
[00:33:55] is a brilliant man and a u you're a
[00:34:00] professor at Cambridge University and
[00:34:02] you welcome Charlie to the UK. you
[00:34:05] helped with get these these debates set
[00:34:08] up for Charlie, which would be one of
[00:34:10] his last big trips and it's hard to
[00:34:13] think about that. He loved that trip. He
[00:34:17] loved meeting you. you were so dear to
[00:34:20] him and I know that you guys had great
[00:34:23] plans to to keep learning from each
[00:34:26] other and you are yourself uh becoming
[00:34:30] sort of known politically in the UK and
[00:34:33] I know that uh you you enter into that
[00:34:36] with fear and trembling and a great and
[00:34:39] a great weight on your shoulders and we
[00:34:40] can get into that a little bit later but
[00:34:43] I love what we're talking about. you
[00:34:44] were you were witnessing the immediate
[00:34:47] aftermath of the assassination and there
[00:34:49] was huge vigils throughout the UK and I
[00:34:52] said something that before that prophets
[00:34:54] are rejected that is sort of the model
[00:34:56] and he was a prophet taking the the
[00:34:58] truth around the world even to the UK
[00:35:01] >> but there was a remnant that heard what
[00:35:03] he said and then you had Tommy Robinson
[00:35:06] lead this huge march Elon Musk called in
[00:35:09] they talked about Charlie I saw so many
[00:35:11] people with Charlie's picture and they
[00:35:14] are chanting chanting Charlie.
[00:35:16] It was really beautiful for me to see
[00:35:18] this outpouring of love for Charlie even
[00:35:22] across the pond. What What was that
[00:35:24] like? Take us into that moment.
[00:35:28] >> Yes. Well, I I didn't go on on that
[00:35:30] much, but I know that over the summer
[00:35:31] there was a lot of anxiety in the press
[00:35:34] within the establishment about about it.
[00:35:37] And I remember talking to Charlie about
[00:35:39] it last last month and uh you know there
[00:35:42] were just sort of you know premonitions
[00:35:45] people thinking that this this is going
[00:35:46] to this is going to end violently. It
[00:35:48] was it was it was demonized. Um and I
[00:35:52] think you know one silver lining you
[00:35:54] might say is that that I think the march
[00:35:56] from what I can tell was broadly
[00:35:58] peaceful. I mean, I think there were
[00:35:59] about 100,000 people um marching through
[00:36:02] the streets and I think there were
[00:36:04] something like 25 arrests, which I
[00:36:06] think, you know,
[00:36:09] you compare it to similar kinds of
[00:36:11] events, it's not not out of the ordinary
[00:36:13] at all. And it was from what I could
[00:36:15] tell from just just looking at the
[00:36:17] footage, it was it was peaceful. And I'm
[00:36:18] sure that that sense of it being a vigil
[00:36:21] for Charlie, of being a a sort of
[00:36:23] witness to Charlie, as you say, his face
[00:36:25] was all over, you know, posters
[00:36:27] everywhere of him. And uh I think that
[00:36:31] would have had a calming effect on the
[00:36:33] march. And uh and I think, you know,
[00:36:35] there was there was a great atmosphere
[00:36:37] from what I could tell. Um you know, it
[00:36:40] was broadly demonized in in the
[00:36:41] mainstream media afterwards as far as I
[00:36:43] could tell. But I but I I think it went
[00:36:44] off a lot better than many people were
[00:36:48] worrying about over the summer.
[00:36:49] >> Yeah. Well, and I to to the point about
[00:36:51] violence I and I know that the there's
[00:36:54] an establishment press that is even more
[00:36:56] entrenched in the UK than there is in
[00:36:59] the US and they still have more power to
[00:37:01] sort of set narratives and things and so
[00:37:03] >> that's certainly something that needs to
[00:37:04] be addressed in the UK. But the point
[00:37:07] is, you had all these people that have a
[00:37:09] lot of reason to be upset about things,
[00:37:11] but they're largely peaceful. And that's
[00:37:12] the actual truth. The actual truth is
[00:37:14] that it was sort of beautiful and and
[00:37:17] and really respectful. And we got a note
[00:37:21] yesterday. I can't divulge who this is
[00:37:23] from, but this note was passed along.
[00:37:25] Says, "Just got off the phone with a
[00:37:27] friend, won't say the name, who is SWAT
[00:37:30] and was tasked with working the memorial
[00:37:32] for Charlie here in Glendale, Arizona.
[00:37:34] He said they were all briefed to 100%
[00:37:38] expect something major to happen and the
[00:37:41] whole event came and went without one
[00:37:43] arrest between Peoria, Mesa, Glendale,
[00:37:45] and Phoenix PD all assisting. A complete
[00:37:48] anomaly for an event even 10% this size.
[00:37:52] >> Even the Super Bowl would have someone
[00:37:54] get drunk and like punch a guy.
[00:37:56] >> Yeah.
[00:37:56] >> They didn't have one arrest.
[00:37:59] >> And and the power of prayer, you know, I
[00:38:01] keep saying this over and over again. I
[00:38:02] the first time in my life that I've I
[00:38:04] can feel the prayers of strangers
[00:38:06] >> just sustaining this whole team
[00:38:09] >> through turning point turning point
[00:38:10] action the Charlie Kirk show you can
[00:38:12] feel it and you could feel the prayers
[00:38:15] >> inside the memorial and you were there
[00:38:17] you actually made it back which is a
[00:38:18] whole other saga which is incredible and
[00:38:20] I think such a honor Charlie would have
[00:38:22] been just so honored to know what you
[00:38:23] went through in order to get like planes
[00:38:25] trains and automobiles for you uh in
[00:38:28] that trip but I I want to do I do want
[00:38:30] to stay on the UK Okay.
[00:38:33] Do you think, you know, a lot of people
[00:38:35] are talking about this as a revival
[00:38:36] moment in the US? A lot of people are
[00:38:38] talking about this is the turning point.
[00:38:41] This is a politically galvanizing
[00:38:43] moment. Do you feel like this is having
[00:38:46] at least some sort of the same effect in
[00:38:48] the UK?
[00:38:49] >> It's had extraordinary reverberations
[00:38:51] all across Europe, I think, and
[00:38:53] definitely definitely in Britain. I'm
[00:38:55] having conversations with people about
[00:38:57] about faith, about family, about about
[00:39:02] freedom, about loving your country that
[00:39:05] that I simply, you know, was just very
[00:39:08] very difficult to to to have before. And
[00:39:10] he's he's unleashed something
[00:39:12] extraordinary. A lot of people didn't
[00:39:15] really know who Charlie was, I think, in
[00:39:17] in Britain. And it was only, you know,
[00:39:19] when when the news broke, people
[00:39:21] started, you know, you know, the the the
[00:39:24] framing, I think even on the BBC, the
[00:39:25] BBC to start with at least was saying
[00:39:27] this is a far-right character. Some of
[00:39:29] the some of the press would just uh were
[00:39:32] demonizing him. But very quickly that
[00:39:34] that shifted and it was just just just
[00:39:36] obvious. He was you couldn't mistake it.
[00:39:38] He was an extraordinary husband, loving
[00:39:40] father, civil, respectful in his
[00:39:43] engagement with with young people. And
[00:39:45] that came across very very quickly. And
[00:39:47] so it's it's been it's it's been
[00:39:50] remarkable the kind of conversations
[00:39:51] that have opened up and um I think his
[00:39:54] legacy is going to be a remarkable one.
[00:39:56] think uh uh you know we're having these
[00:39:59] big debates in Britain at the moment
[00:40:00] around exactly these kinds of issues and
[00:40:03] all all of those all of those sort of um
[00:40:06] those great sort of four cornerstones I
[00:40:08] think of you know the faith family flag
[00:40:11] and freedom that would just uh celebrate
[00:40:14] in that extraordinary way in the stadium
[00:40:15] on Sunday and uh those it's very
[00:40:17] difficult still in Britain to have
[00:40:18] conversations around around those um but
[00:40:21] something's shifted and I'm sure that
[00:40:23] Charlie's legacy will be to to catalyze
[00:40:25] that and and and to put those issues
[00:40:28] back on the table and they're going to
[00:40:30] be right, you know, front and center of
[00:40:33] the British political landscape over the
[00:40:34] next 5 years.
[00:40:36] >> You have I just want to make sure you're
[00:40:37] getting because you you and James, you
[00:40:39] and James, you were in England with
[00:40:41] James, so I just want to make sure I'm
[00:40:42] giving views on what's happening over
[00:40:44] there.
[00:40:45] >> Of course. Of course. Um, you know,
[00:40:47] before we move on too far from the
[00:40:48] debate, I know this is I followed this,
[00:40:51] you definitely followed it, but I don't
[00:40:53] know that a lot of people in the US know
[00:40:54] about this that one of the Oxford Union
[00:40:57] people that Charlie met when he debated
[00:41:00] there. He posted something about
[00:41:01] Charlie's death that was that was pretty
[00:41:03] bad and there's been a backlash to that.
[00:41:05] >> Yeah, absolutely. So, the in I think
[00:41:07] it's the incoming president of the
[00:41:08] Oxford Union.
[00:41:10] >> Do we have that? uh who who debated uh
[00:41:13] Charlie back in May uh I think said
[00:41:17] something I can't remember the words he
[00:41:19] said he so president-elect George Aberon
[00:41:24] who there is an image of them debating
[00:41:26] I'll get that loaded uh to our team so
[00:41:28] they can put this up um get that ASAP
[00:41:31] guys so he posted uh he debated he was
[00:41:35] one of the people who debated him and he
[00:41:37] appeared to c he shared multiple
[00:41:39] celebratory remarks remarks about the
[00:41:41] shooting on WhatsApp. According to the
[00:41:43] Oxford student, uh, one message said,
[00:41:45] "Charlie Kirk got shot. Let's effing
[00:41:48] go." And the other said, "Scoreboard
[00:41:51] FN." I I don't know what that means. I
[00:41:53] think Ryan would probably be able to
[00:41:54] tell me what that means, but basically
[00:41:57] >> scoreboard. I mean, it's like basically
[00:41:58] put a point on the board because we took
[00:42:00] one down
[00:42:01] >> and uh you can probably tell us more
[00:42:04] about what happened.
[00:42:05] >> Has he been punished for this? Uh so
[00:42:07] there was a the big debate uh kind of
[00:42:09] blew up afterwards. I to be honest I I
[00:42:12] was so upset at the time. I was just
[00:42:13] trying I was tuning out of the the
[00:42:15] negative reactions and I was trying not
[00:42:16] to dwell on it too much. But
[00:42:18] >> I was getting a lot of texts from people
[00:42:20] who were signing
[00:42:22] a letter of effectively a letter of no
[00:42:24] confidence. Uh and I think the threshold
[00:42:26] is I think it's something like 150. So
[00:42:28] if you were an officer of the Oxford
[00:42:29] Union in the past you would you could
[00:42:31] you could force um you could force a
[00:42:33] resignation. Uh I'm not I think they've
[00:42:35] hit about 70 signatures and uh we are I
[00:42:39] mean it's a
[00:42:40] >> very damning.
[00:42:42] >> Yeah. I mean it I think it it go it it's
[00:42:44] touched a nerve because you know the
[00:42:47] worry is is this you know is this
[00:42:49] legitimate speech? Is this is this he
[00:42:51] was you know should he be should he be
[00:42:53] expelled for this? Should he be
[00:42:54] rusticated? But but hold on that this is
[00:42:57] one of these stupid academic culde-sacs
[00:43:00] that people that are, you know, educated
[00:43:03] but beyond their intelligence get
[00:43:04] themselves into.
[00:43:05] >> And this is like, I'm sorry, Charlie
[00:43:08] Kirk was murdered, assassinated.
[00:43:10] >> Mhm.
[00:43:12] >> Do you think it's okay that Martin
[00:43:13] Luther King or JFK or Lincoln or whoever
[00:43:16] was assassinated? Do we think that this
[00:43:17] is okay? Do we think political violence?
[00:43:20] Okay, listen. I understand if some
[00:43:21] fringe character on some Discord chat
[00:43:25] >> thinks that it's, you know, is gleeful,
[00:43:26] but that is that person does not
[00:43:28] represent Cambridge or Oxford that is
[00:43:30] supposed to be a premier institution.
[00:43:32] I'm calling I hope this gets clipped. I
[00:43:35] I am calling on you sane leftwing
[00:43:39] students that are still, you know,
[00:43:41] advocates for civilization to sign that
[00:43:44] petition, that letter, whatever it is,
[00:43:46] get it to 150. That is not okay. Even if
[00:43:50] you disagree with Charlie, Charlie was a
[00:43:52] fundamentally good and decent, loving
[00:43:54] husband and father who believed in the
[00:43:58] building blocks of Western civilization.
[00:44:00] He did not deserve this. And for
[00:44:02] somebody that to represent your school
[00:44:04] that would celebrate his death is
[00:44:07] shocking that you cannot get 150 people
[00:44:09] to put their name to disciplining or at
[00:44:12] least or whatever. I don't even know
[00:44:14] what this but the fact that that can go
[00:44:16] unchecked is abysmal. It is such an
[00:44:20] indictment of the moral character and
[00:44:22] the lack of moral clarity that exists at
[00:44:25] the the UK's elite institutions. I just
[00:44:28] have to say that. Get it over 150.
[00:44:30] >> Absolutely right. You know, language
[00:44:32] like that, it lays down the enabling
[00:44:34] conditions correct for violence. And I
[00:44:37] >> it it dehumanizes conservatives that if
[00:44:39] you are a conservative, you're less than
[00:44:41] human. You don't deserve to live. And
[00:44:42] it, by the way, if you if you if
[00:44:44] somebody kills you, you had it coming.
[00:44:46] >> Yeah. To be clear, the unanimous
[00:44:48] reaction on left and right in Britain
[00:44:51] was one of condemnation and anger.
[00:44:54] >> Good.
[00:44:54] >> And so, just
[00:44:55] >> apparently not unanimous,
[00:44:56] >> but yeah. Why are there not 150
[00:44:58] signatures? When somebody actually has
[00:45:00] to put their name to it, they get weak
[00:45:02] in the knees.
[00:45:02] >> Yeah.
[00:45:03] >> What is there to be weak in the knees
[00:45:04] about
[00:45:05] >> political assassinations?
[00:45:07] >> Yeah. I I I couldn't agree more. And I
[00:45:08] mean, two days later, I remember we were
[00:45:10] I was having lunch with with Nigel,
[00:45:12] Nigel Farage, and and uh people this
[00:45:15] this group walked out and screamed
[00:45:18] fascist at us. And I just thought to
[00:45:21] myself, you know, and he gets that all
[00:45:22] the time, of course, but I just thought
[00:45:24] to myself just, you know, Charlie's
[00:45:26] blood had barely run cold and still they
[00:45:29] would have known exactly what had
[00:45:30] happened. they would have known the kind
[00:45:32] of rhetoric and the demonizing that can
[00:45:35] let lay down, as it were, the conditions
[00:45:36] for uh uh uh for for for for violence on
[00:45:40] the left. And uh I just, you know, I
[00:45:43] don't see I don't see how we come out of
[00:45:45] this. You know, I don't see what
[00:45:46] solutions liberalism liberalism has.
[00:45:48] >> You know, I I want to I didn't mention
[00:45:50] this, but it's worth mentioning that
[00:45:52] that go up and go ahead and put up 141
[00:45:54] again. You can do it in on the screen.
[00:45:57] And this is this poll about political
[00:46:00] violence being justified 141.
[00:46:03] >> And you look at the date that this was
[00:46:05] conducted,
[00:46:07] September 12th through September 15th.
[00:46:10] Charlie was murdered on the 10th.
[00:46:12] >> Yeah.
[00:46:12] >> This is a poll conducted after the
[00:46:14] assassination of Charlie Kirk. And 30%
[00:46:17] >> of young liberals
[00:46:20] >> still believe that. That is
[00:46:21] >> extraordary. That'll make
[00:46:23] >> Yeah,
[00:46:23] >> that should that should be a sobering
[00:46:25] sobering stat for anybody. Uh we've got
[00:46:28] to take a quick break.
[00:46:29] >> We'll be right back with Dr. James our
[00:46:31] from the UK.
[00:46:33] [Music]
[00:47:14] It would be one thing if President Trump
[00:47:15] signed an executive order saying CNN,
[00:47:17] you can't say this. That would be a
[00:47:18] violation of freedom of speech. It's
[00:47:20] like it's very simple. It's access.
[00:47:22] Access to the White House is a is a
[00:47:24] privilege, not a right. You have to
[00:47:25] apply for it. To get on White House
[00:47:27] grounds, you have to behave a certain
[00:47:29] way. You have to hopefully dress a
[00:47:31] certain way. You have to be with a
[00:47:32] certain honorable understanding that you
[00:47:34] don't run the White House. You cover the
[00:47:35] White House and if you act like a jerk,
[00:47:37] you might get kicked out of the White
[00:47:38] House.
[00:47:39] >> So, what do you think the Associated
[00:47:40] Press has been doing wrong to get kicked
[00:47:42] out of the White House?
[00:47:42] >> In that specific instance, they decided
[00:47:44] to not use official government
[00:47:45] terminology, which was the Gulf of
[00:47:47] America,
[00:47:47] >> right? The official terminology that
[00:47:50] just got changed.
[00:47:51] >> That's how it works.
[00:47:52] Well, personally, I think that if you
[00:47:55] are a major press organization, you
[00:47:56] should be allowed to have
[00:47:57] >> So, we're clear, Joe Biden used billions
[00:47:59] of dollars to fund actual censorship of
[00:48:02] Americans rights to speak. The Joe Biden
[00:48:05] White House went after anybody who
[00:48:07] questioned the efficacy of the COVID
[00:48:09] vaccine. Joe Biden personal White House
[00:48:12] went out to Twitter and Facebook trying
[00:48:13] to silence anyone for saying that. Thank
[00:48:15] you for your time. I got to get to the
[00:48:16] next question. Thank you.
[00:48:18] >> Okay. Thank you.
[00:48:22] Let me just get my girls one sec.
[00:48:25] >> Me? I'm talking.
[00:48:25] >> How many people we got here?
[00:48:26] >> We're three. But they're just uh they're
[00:48:28] just my entourage.
[00:48:29] >> Okay.
[00:48:29] >> Thank you. Don't worry about the girl.
[00:48:31] Get the middle.
[00:48:33] >> Thank you.
[00:48:34] >> Be more respectful. Come on.
[00:48:35] >> Oh, they're my girls. I'm always
[00:48:36] respectful.
[00:48:38] [Laughter]
[00:48:40] >> Anyways, I have a big quick question is
[00:48:43] about private colleges. Why should they
[00:48:45] be able to bench the rules of Donald
[00:48:47] Trump when they get to decide the
[00:48:48] curriculum? I know. I started off with
[00:48:50] my co my college Oh, sorry about that. I
[00:48:54] started my college career in a private
[00:48:56] university on Lacy like St. Martins's
[00:48:58] and they're a big Catholic university
[00:48:59] where they get to decide their own
[00:49:01] curriculum, their own way of teaching
[00:49:03] and especially it was religious. And so
[00:49:06] now Harvard is being struck with a bunch
[00:49:08] of like um deals where they're not
[00:49:11] allowed uh they're being rehold $2
[00:49:12] billion worth of research funds or was
[00:49:15] it 200 millions? I'm sorry if I'm two
[00:49:16] billion right. Thank you. Sorry. Um, but
[00:49:19] they're a private university. Why should
[00:49:21] they bend to the knee? Because they're
[00:49:23] private. I get why public universities
[00:49:26] because we're funded by the government.
[00:49:28] But why should private universities vow
[00:49:30] to the knee of the president?
[00:49:32] >> Well, first of all, private universities
[00:49:34] receive a lot of government money, too,
[00:49:36] uh, through federal student loans called
[00:49:37] FAFSA, right? So, FAFSA is all federal
[00:49:39] student loans. Secondly, that's taxpayer
[00:49:42] money that is being sent to Harvard, $2
[00:49:44] billion. Thirdly, Harvard has a $50
[00:49:46] billion endowment. they can pay for
[00:49:48] their own research. We don't need to be
[00:49:49] financing research at Harvard when
[00:49:51] they're sitting on a $50 billion cash
[00:49:53] pile.
[00:49:54] >> Okay. But at the same time, it is like a
[00:49:57] private university. Like even with if
[00:49:59] it's like Catholic or not Catholic
[00:50:01] because I know Harvard is not like a
[00:50:02] like a religious school, right?
[00:50:04] >> It used to be, but now
[00:50:05] >> it used to be. Not anymore. Like I went
[00:50:06] to a fully religious Catholic college,
[00:50:08] >> but I bet they still took federal money.
[00:50:10] >> Uh you use FA? No, we use WA FASA.
[00:50:13] >> Yeah. FASA.
[00:50:14] >> Yeah. Was FA?
[00:50:16] >> Okay. Yeah. Again, FAFSA. Yeah. So
[00:50:17] that's that's federal money.
[00:50:19] >> Yeah.
[00:50:20] >> So the idea of a private school is
[00:50:22] actually a very questionable idea.
[00:50:24] >> But why can't we teach different
[00:50:25] ideologies at different times? I don't
[00:50:27] I'm not combating like you know whatever
[00:50:29] your ideology or whatever behind me's
[00:50:31] ideology is.
[00:50:32] >> That's fine. Harvard can do it at once.
[00:50:33] We just don't we as taxpayers don't have
[00:50:35] to finance it. That's the question.
[00:50:36] >> Yeah. But at the same time you don't
[00:50:38] have to finance it. But why is there
[00:50:39] going to be so much backlash behind it?
[00:50:41] Why do we must combat them? If they want
[00:50:43] to teach their way, so be it. There is
[00:50:45] such a problem with people come
[00:50:46] constantly combative. Can't we just have
[00:50:48] a problem where we can disagree and then
[00:50:50] also
[00:50:50] >> I'm not What was your question? Does
[00:50:51] anyone following this? I'm not. Yeah.
[00:50:53] >> No, girl. I was expedited. I'm just
[00:50:55] trying.
[00:50:55] >> It's all good. Thank you very much.
[00:50:57] >> Thank you. Can I get a hat?
[00:50:58] >> Sure. You were you were very polite.
[00:51:00] Thank you.
[00:51:02] >> All right. Thank you. Nice to meet you,
[00:51:04] Entourage.
[00:51:14] [Music]
[00:51:18] All right, welcome back to the Charlie
[00:51:20] Kirk show. Time is flying with you, by
[00:51:23] the way, Dr. James our
[00:51:26] uh it's truly amazing. I we have
[00:51:28] actually Charlie's debate with the It's
[00:51:32] coming. I I don't know that we have it
[00:51:33] yet uh with the new incoming
[00:51:37] president.
[00:51:37] >> President. Yes. Uh, so we'll play that
[00:51:40] before this segment ends. But I mean,
[00:51:44] give us I don't know your your your just
[00:51:47] sum it all up. Charlie, England,
[00:51:49] >> the UK, free speech, wherever you want
[00:51:51] to take this because we have actually we
[00:51:52] were just discussing in the break all
[00:51:53] these other things we're going to get
[00:51:54] to, but I think it I think we need to
[00:51:56] put a capstone on this hour.
[00:51:58] >> I once made the mistake of asking
[00:52:00] Charlie what part of the the motherland
[00:52:03] he he he was from, his family was from.
[00:52:06] He said, "My surname's Kirk. where do
[00:52:07] you think I'm from? I said, "Yeah,
[00:52:09] okay." Right. He's a He's proud of his
[00:52:12] Scottish heritage. He's he he he he he
[00:52:14] loved Britain and he had this sort of,
[00:52:17] you know, I think sometimes in in in our
[00:52:19] country, we we we get a sense a note of
[00:52:22] uh almost kind of a smug contempt from
[00:52:25] from America to to what's going on over
[00:52:27] here. But but it's just not true. And I
[00:52:29] think and Charlie sort of personified
[00:52:31] that. He he Charlie was somebody who he
[00:52:34] loved the country. He was he was sort of
[00:52:36] heartbroken at what he saw was happening
[00:52:38] to it. The fact that it was just losing,
[00:52:42] you know, that it was no longer the
[00:52:43] cradle of those founding values that he
[00:52:45] believed made America great that that
[00:52:47] that gave America its DNA. And um you
[00:52:51] know, he was so passionate about about
[00:52:52] us and and not just, you know, not just
[00:52:54] recently. I mean, I can't remember when
[00:52:55] he set up Turning Point UK. I think it
[00:52:57] must have been in 2017, 2018. Uh I don't
[00:53:00] know if he's done that in did that in
[00:53:01] any other country. I mean, he he he had
[00:53:03] a just a,
[00:53:04] >> you know, fierce desire to to to kind of
[00:53:07] connect that sort of Anglo-American axis
[00:53:10] and um I think it's been pretty
[00:53:12] successful. TPUK, they they're the ones
[00:53:15] who organized that vigil outside Downing
[00:53:16] Street just just
[00:53:18] >> you got a good social media following.
[00:53:20] >> Absolutely right. And so it's something
[00:53:21] we we talked about it a lot actually
[00:53:23] last month and you know how how to help
[00:53:25] you know ramp it up and and how to kind
[00:53:27] of develop this sort of you know a youth
[00:53:29] movement on the right in Britain and so
[00:53:32] he was passionate about and I think felt
[00:53:34] you know the rights in a little bit of
[00:53:35] chaos at the moment in some ways I think
[00:53:37] it's kind of fruitful fruitful chaos we
[00:53:39] talked a lot about it there's all sorts
[00:53:41] of um emerging movements there's a lot
[00:53:44] of vitality now I think on the right a
[00:53:46] lot of philosophical energy a lot of
[00:53:47] political energy and you're seeing that
[00:53:49] now
[00:53:50] >> reflected in the polling.
[00:53:51] >> Do you think that reform do you think
[00:53:53] Nigel Farage is the likely next prime
[00:53:55] minister if things hold?
[00:53:56] >> Yes, I do. I think he is set to be the
[00:53:59] next prime minister of the United
[00:54:01] Kingdom. Whenever the election is going
[00:54:02] to be held, I think the latest it could
[00:54:04] be held is is August 2029. That's a long
[00:54:07] time.
[00:54:08] >> That's a long way. That's an eternity in
[00:54:10] that. Was it Adam Smith who said there's
[00:54:12] a lot of ruin in a nation? Well, I just
[00:54:14] don't know how much how much ruin there
[00:54:16] is left in ours with the current
[00:54:18] government certainly. Um but yes, I I
[00:54:20] think if if you were the betting markets
[00:54:22] and and the polling would suggest that
[00:54:24] that that Nigel is set.
[00:54:26] >> K's very unpopular.
[00:54:28] >> Extremely unpopular. Yes, absolutely. I
[00:54:30] think he's just this week his approval
[00:54:32] rating sank to below what I think Boris
[00:54:36] Johnson had at his very you know at the
[00:54:38] Nadier
[00:54:38] >> at the Nater.
[00:54:40] >> Exactly. And and um so it sounds better.
[00:54:43] There's there's there's a lot, you know,
[00:54:44] there's a lot of maneuverings now on the
[00:54:46] left, uh, which is now fragmenting into
[00:54:49] the kind of the rainbow caucus, the
[00:54:51] crescent caucus, the, uh, the star, the
[00:54:54] old school socialists. And, uh, it's it
[00:54:58] may be that he gets start almost very
[00:55:00] likely that Starmmer gets unseated. I
[00:55:01] mean, we're good at ditching prime
[00:55:02] ministers.
[00:55:03] >> Yeah. I was going to say, what triggers
[00:55:04] it?
[00:55:04] >> Well, so we're a parliamentary
[00:55:06] democracy. So what that means is you've
[00:55:07] got you know the party that can command
[00:55:09] a majority and command the confidence of
[00:55:11] the House of Commons is the government
[00:55:13] and uh now Star's got a majority in the
[00:55:16] I think 154 and so Turkeys don't vote
[00:55:19] for Christmas even if the Turkeys really
[00:55:21] really hate each other and and so it's
[00:55:24] very likely very likely that the
[00:55:26] government will survive in some form
[00:55:28] till you know till the end of the
[00:55:30] electoral cycle but I suspect um Stal is
[00:55:33] not going to be that long in in Downing
[00:55:36] And one could hope. So Nigel's well
[00:55:38] positioned. By the way, I we were going
[00:55:39] to play sweat pants, bro, but I actually
[00:55:41] like this better. Let's Let's play the
[00:55:44] clip from the UK of Charlie paying you
[00:55:47] quite the compliment, Blake. 162.
[00:55:50] >> Blake is like the smartest person I
[00:55:52] know. We're going to We're all plenty
[00:55:55] prepared to like
[00:55:57] >> That was uh Sorry, I just had to do that
[00:55:59] for you. You know, Charlie Charlie uh
[00:56:01] was very impressed by Blake's intellect
[00:56:04] and by your memory.
[00:56:05] And uh that was you traveling with your
[00:56:07] your travel buddy. You guys were
[00:56:08] international travel buddies at the end.
[00:56:10] I mean it really
[00:56:12] >> it really was.
[00:56:12] >> I I picked up on that reverence for for
[00:56:15] for Blake over our dinner in Cambridge
[00:56:17] and uh whenever there was this kind of
[00:56:19] difficult moment a difficult discussion
[00:56:21] or we needed some facts of Charlie would
[00:56:23] turn turn to his left say Blake and he'd
[00:56:26] always have the answer. Uh well it's
[00:56:28] true you do have a a weird weirdly
[00:56:31] photographic memory for history. Maybe
[00:56:33] it's not photographic. Whatever it is,
[00:56:35] you have a great recall. You have a
[00:56:36] great recall. We're going to we're going
[00:56:38] to transition an hour or two and we're
[00:56:40] going to talk about this Jimmy Kimmel
[00:56:41] controversy and we're going to we're
[00:56:43] going to start debunking this both
[00:56:44] sidism uh with some some actual facts
[00:56:48] and uh I think that's important. We'll
[00:56:50] be right back with Dr. James or don't go
[00:56:52] anywhere.
[00:56:54] [Music]
[00:57:17] not agree on what daily news channel to
[00:57:20] watch. I'm going to be honest.
[00:57:22] >> Yeah, we can talk about it and we all we
[00:57:23] agree that you know a lot of the
[00:57:24] mainstreams on
[00:57:25] >> you have to agree on it. I'm telling you
[00:57:27] right now, as someone who is married,
[00:57:29] when you have to instill values in a
[00:57:31] child, you cannot have the first
[00:57:34] elemental issue at 7 a.m. when you turn
[00:57:37] on the radio or a podcast to be
[00:57:39] disagreement. You got enough of that
[00:57:40] already in a home.
[00:57:41] >> Yeah.
[00:57:42] >> You need to have harmony.
[00:57:43] >> Can I ask you like specific issues like
[00:57:45] we agree on abortion? There's been we've
[00:57:48] talked about immigration and I've said,
[00:57:50] you know, Trump's not anti-immigrant. is
[00:57:51] anti-legal immigrant and we need to
[00:57:54] protect our own citizens and we need we
[00:57:56] do need to bring in people from other
[00:57:57] countries but only when we can actually
[00:57:59] give them opportunities and we agree on
[00:58:02] that type of thing. So what what would
[00:58:03] be dividing belief?
[00:58:05] >> Well I asked some what was the revealing
[00:58:07] I asked would she vote more Republican
[00:58:09] than Democrat and you and you said again
[00:58:11] I don't want to put words in your mouth
[00:58:12] but you said not really.
[00:58:14] >> Yeah. And again, I'm only saying build a
[00:58:17] life with someone where you have
[00:58:19] agreement on the macro issues. You can
[00:58:21] have disagreement on the micro issues.
[00:58:24] You need to agree on religion. You need
[00:58:26] to agree on eternity. You need to agree
[00:58:29] on political matters. You could disagree
[00:58:32] on what type of food you like. That's
[00:58:33] micro.
[00:58:34] >> You could disagree on bedtime,
[00:58:36] >> right? You could disagree on the type of
[00:58:38] cars or where you vacation. That is
[00:58:40] micro. macro, you must be in alignment.
[00:58:43] And understand, let's just take for
[00:58:45] example, you're raising a child and you
[00:58:48] she's like, "Hey, you know, you you take
[00:58:50] the son in the morning and then he'll be
[00:58:52] with the mom." Is that kid going to hear
[00:58:54] two different things?
[00:58:56] A house divided can't stand. And that's
[00:58:58] the point is that there must be harmony
[00:59:00] because if all of a sudden for example,
[00:59:03] your wife will be like, well, you know,
[00:59:05] we Trump is XYZ or and you say, well,
[00:59:08] no, he's actually this. At some point,
[00:59:10] it's like they'll look and they'll say,
[00:59:12] well, there's disunityity there. So, I'm
[00:59:13] a big believer in macroaggment. I'm not
[00:59:16] trying to like rock your world here.
[00:59:17] >> Yeah.
[00:59:18] >> But
[00:59:19] do not try to change your girlfriend or
[00:59:21] your future fiance or wife politically.
[00:59:25] >> Does not work.
[00:59:25] >> Yeah. Yeah, I'm telling you right now,
[00:59:27] >> this would actually be a good segue. So,
[00:59:28] I I was going to come here to Wazu. I go
[00:59:30] to Spokane Falls Community College. I
[00:59:31] didn't want to live the party life, the
[00:59:34] college frat life, and I didn't want to
[00:59:36] be influenced by liberal universities. I
[00:59:38] wanted to kind of just work and go to
[00:59:39] school. And I think a big piece of her
[00:59:42] political beliefs, I I hear her, she has
[00:59:44] an open mind to what I say and she
[00:59:46] starts to agree with things. I think a
[00:59:48] lot of her life has been influenced by
[00:59:49] having two liberal parents and then now
[00:59:51] she's in school.
[00:59:52] >> Do not marry this girl.
[00:59:54] Like you do not want liberal in-laws.
[00:59:56] Like this is you do not want this. I'm
[00:59:57] telling you, run away. Find somebody
[00:59:59] else. In-laws are very important.
[01:00:02] >> I'm telling you right now, as someone
[01:00:03] who's married to two kids, in-laws
[01:00:04] become embedded. You almost inherit them
[01:00:07] as pseudo parents. And like if all of a
[01:00:09] sudden you're going to be like, "Oh,
[01:00:11] here's Thanksgiving. Here's Christmas."
[01:00:13] You should be excited about
[01:00:14] Thanksgiving. You should be excited
[01:00:16] about it, not like begrudging against
[01:00:18] it. And so if you want warfare in the
[01:00:21] family, because here's the sad truth.
[01:00:23] You want like the more blunt truth?
[01:00:24] >> Why not?
[01:00:25] >> Is she have a good relationship with her
[01:00:27] dad?
[01:00:27] >> Yeah.
[01:00:28] >> She'll side with him over you
[01:00:30] >> every time.
[01:00:31] >> Yeah.
[01:00:31] >> She she she will leak to her parents
[01:00:33] against you if all of a sudden she feels
[01:00:35] as if the politics is going under the
[01:00:37] marriage. Her first love is her dad and
[01:00:40] if she has a good relationship with her
[01:00:41] dad and she feels as if that you're like
[01:00:43] bringing bad ideology in there. I'm sure
[01:00:45] your mind is turning a little bit
[01:00:47] because you might have seen some
[01:00:48] examples of this. She will go back to
[01:00:50] the liberal parents against you and
[01:00:52] you'll be on an island.
[01:00:54] >> Yeah. And I say she has an open mind.
[01:00:55] Like I don't want to put her under the
[01:00:56] stereotypical liberal. And I'm not
[01:00:58] saying that parents matter though.
[01:01:00] >> Yeah. But with her dad, I'll just like
[01:01:01] give you this anecdote. Uh her dad knows
[01:01:04] how I voted and we've um and he's a
[01:01:06] pretty strong advocate against Trump. Uh
[01:01:09] he hasn't ever brought it up to me. We
[01:01:11] but we've had a good relationship and
[01:01:13] she has called out her dad for not
[01:01:15] having enough of an open mind. and she
[01:01:17] says that, you know, I'm torn between
[01:01:18] you two and I think you should be less
[01:01:20] hateful.
[01:01:21] >> I I know. I'm just I'm telling you
[01:01:23] though, Ty goes to the runner, which
[01:01:25] means Tai goes to the biology.
[01:01:27] >> And
[01:01:29] because it it's unfair for her to choose
[01:01:31] like, you know, which one or the other
[01:01:32] one. I you might think like I'm
[01:01:35] generalizing. This comes from over 10
[01:01:36] years of seeing and doing this that
[01:01:39] political agreement is a necessary
[01:01:42] foundational element when you want to
[01:01:44] try to build a family.
[01:01:45] >> Got it. Thank you, man. You got a lot to
[01:01:47] pray about and wrestle with. Thank you.
[01:01:48] Yes, sir.
[01:01:50] [Applause]
[01:01:54] >> Thank you.
[01:01:55] >> I love my in-laws. My in-laws are great.
[01:01:57] They're all MAGA.
[01:02:01] >> All right. So, that green shirt guy from
[01:02:03] a little while back got me thinking. How
[01:02:05] in your mind can someone be a dictator
[01:02:07] when they willfully gave up their
[01:02:08] office?
[01:02:10] >> I mean, you can act like a dictator. And
[01:02:11] I mean, Joe Biden didn't even know he
[01:02:13] was president, right? I mean, so for
[01:02:15] him, he might still think he didn't sign
[01:02:16] any documents. I mean, this guy's a
[01:02:18] joke, right? I mean, and by the way,
[01:02:20] dictators give up power a lot. Bashar
[01:02:22] al-Assad willingly gave up power in
[01:02:24] Syria. That's a bad example.
[01:02:26] >> Well, not necessarily. I mean, a
[01:02:28] dictator implies that there's assumed
[01:02:30] power there that they have absolute
[01:02:31] control over.
[01:02:32] >> No, not not necessarily. Again, what I
[01:02:33] was saying is that, let me be even more
[01:02:35] clear. When you use the law, the law
[01:02:38] legal apparatus to go after your
[01:02:40] political opponent that is acting like a
[01:02:42] dictator.
[01:02:45] >> In what way?
[01:02:48] >> Because there's a dissident, Donald
[01:02:50] Trump, that's about to encroach on your
[01:02:52] power and you're cheating. You are using
[01:02:56] what should be impartial justice as a
[01:02:58] way to favor, as a way to give yourself
[01:03:00] an advantage. So, how was the justice
[01:03:04] impartial when the warrants used to
[01:03:06] search his Marilago mansion were in fact
[01:03:09] issued by an impartial neutral judge?
[01:03:12] >> Okay, search warrants are very different
[01:03:14] than indictments, but we shouldn't be
[01:03:15] searching Trump's residence in the first
[01:03:17] place. Former presidents should be off
[01:03:19] limits, period. Unless they're doing
[01:03:21] something, I don't like flying to
[01:03:22] Epstein's Island, then you actually
[01:03:24] don't get anything wrong that happens to
[01:03:26] you. So, it's like the point being is
[01:03:28] that we shouldn't be going after former
[01:03:30] presidents. Well, can former presidents
[01:03:32] not engage in corruption then?
[01:03:33] >> Of course they are. But we didn't go
[01:03:34] after Bill Clinton on the Clinton crime
[01:03:36] initiative for this example. It sets a
[01:03:39] bad precedent.
[01:03:39] >> Well, should
[01:03:41] >> we didn't go after Bill Clinton for
[01:03:42] Epstein Island for this reason because
[01:03:43] it sets a bad precedent.
[01:03:45] >> Shouldn't we set a good precedent though
[01:03:46] by going after the former presidents who
[01:03:49] are in fact corrupt?
[01:03:50] >> No, actually because almost every
[01:03:52] president is corrupt and we as a country
[01:03:54] have never done this before. We
[01:03:56] basically say these are largely off
[01:03:58] limits because it will be so divisive
[01:04:00] and destructive. People want to know why
[01:04:01] the country is so divided. They tried to
[01:04:03] put Donald Trump in prison for half a
[01:04:05] century. What does that do to the
[01:04:06] country? It's an insult to all of us. As
[01:04:08] if, oh, you guys are going to have a
[01:04:09] voice. So sorry. We're going to go lock
[01:04:11] him up in prison. It doesn't take a lot
[01:04:13] of schooling to know that that's
[01:04:14] cheating. That's unfair. That is not
[01:04:16] playing by the rules.
[01:04:19] Well, to be fair, right, like
[01:04:23] it's it's not necessarily not playing by
[01:04:25] the rules because it wasn't Biden
[01:04:26] himself that issued that order. It was a
[01:04:28] Biden appointed
[01:04:29] >> his person. No, no, no. It was Merrick
[01:04:30] Garland that orchestrated the whole
[01:04:32] thing. And Merrick Garland reported to
[01:04:33] who? To Joe Biden.
[01:04:34] >> Yeah, but they still have their own
[01:04:36] unique opinions and opinions and ideas.
[01:04:38] >> Merrick Garland cannot do something
[01:04:40] that's not in harmony with the
[01:04:41] president. Period.
[01:04:42] >> Well, no, that's not true because judges
[01:04:43] are supposed to be in
[01:04:45] >> not judges. DOJ, he's the attorney
[01:04:47] general of the United States. But that's
[01:04:48] that's still like that's that's someone
[01:04:50] who's supposed to be impartial. And
[01:04:52] >> no, the AG is not impartial. That's not
[01:04:54] true. The AG is the top law enforcement
[01:04:56] officer of a president. The president
[01:04:58] can order cases to be dropped,
[01:05:00] increased, decreased.
[01:05:02] >> That's the thing is the the Department
[01:05:04] of Justice can't have an opinion on a
[01:05:06] case, but the president can stop the
[01:05:08] case, right? Like the president has
[01:05:10] power to put things to an end, but he
[01:05:12] doesn't have the power to start things
[01:05:13] in the DOJ.
[01:05:14] >> Yes, he does. You're wrong. He just did
[01:05:16] that with Miles Taylor. That's not
[01:05:17] correct. The president the full
[01:05:19] authority over the attorney general's
[01:05:21] office. DOJ is completely under the
[01:05:23] authority of the president of the United
[01:05:25] States. It's not its own branch. It's
[01:05:27] not. By the way, tell me what branch of
[01:05:28] government is it then? What article the
[01:05:30] Constitution of the DOJ
[01:05:31] >> judicial branch?
[01:05:32] >> No, it's not actually. It's an article
[01:05:34] >> department in a department that's
[01:05:36] supposed to be neutral to to adequately
[01:05:39] distribute justice to people who deserve
[01:05:40] it. Right. Is it not wrong to try and
[01:05:43] press charges on a former president and
[01:05:45] then if it comes out that they're
[01:05:46] innocent, then it's just all said and
[01:05:47] done? I mean, Trump's trial didn't like
[01:05:50] get him put in prison for the rest of
[01:05:52] his life like
[01:05:52] >> because the trial never actually came to
[01:05:54] fruition. Again, I don't even know what
[01:05:55] we're debating here. It's hard to kind
[01:05:57] of take what you're saying seriously
[01:05:58] because you don't even know the branches
[01:05:59] of government to be honest. So, like
[01:06:01] here's the here it's like let me just
[01:06:02] make this as simple as possible.
[01:06:07] All
[01:06:15] [Music]
[01:06:28] [Music]
[01:06:33] right, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk
[01:06:35] show. This is Andrew Kulov, your
[01:06:37] executive producer. I am joined by the
[01:06:39] great British patriot, Dr. James our uh
[01:06:43] who it was interesting actually when we
[01:06:45] hung out in Aspen, there had just been
[01:06:47] this piece that came out about you
[01:06:49] calling you the mentor of JD Vance. And
[01:06:52] you are friends with JD. We are friends
[01:06:53] with JD. He actually hosted this show
[01:06:56] the Monday after September 10th and it
[01:07:00] was a great honor, great tribute. But
[01:07:02] you you took umbrage with that, didn't
[01:07:04] you? that framing of things cuz JD hung
[01:07:06] out. He went on vacation or something
[01:07:08] and he with in the Cotswwell.
[01:07:09] >> Yeah, I've known him known him for a few
[01:07:11] years. He had a a trip to England over
[01:07:14] August. It was supposed to be a family
[01:07:15] holiday, but it it just worked the whole
[01:07:17] time.
[01:07:18] >> It turned into a media circus and he had
[01:07:19] to cut it short. He did some golf up in
[01:07:22] up in Scotland, I think. And um no,
[01:07:24] yeah, I to umbrage at the description.
[01:07:26] This idea that I'm somehow mentored to
[01:07:28] the vice president of the United States
[01:07:29] is not true at all. I've learned a great
[01:07:31] deal more from him than than he's ever
[01:07:33] learned from me. Uh but the last time I
[01:07:35] saw him in Washington must have been
[01:07:38] just a few days before it happened. I
[01:07:39] think it was about a week before it
[01:07:40] happened. And I just said I look I was
[01:07:43] out in Arizona and spent some time with
[01:07:45] Charlie and his team and it's my
[01:07:47] goodness, you know, you're in you're in
[01:07:49] good shape for 2028. That that that
[01:07:51] machine is going to be uh is is roaring
[01:07:55] and with with energy and enthusiasm.
[01:07:57] >> We hope he dives in. I mean, every
[01:07:58] indication would you would think a vice
[01:08:00] president would be primed for that, but
[01:08:02] he's very koi about, you know, he's
[01:08:04] being very respectful and of course we
[01:08:06] we appreciate that. It's it's it's still
[01:08:08] the era of Trump and we are we're into
[01:08:10] that, too. But but yeah, and tell us
[01:08:11] about your relationship with him. I
[01:08:12] think that's interesting.
[01:08:13] >> Well, we met uh gosh, I think yeah, a
[01:08:15] few years ago, I think summer of 2019, I
[01:08:18] think it was through mutual friends and
[01:08:20] uh yeah, we hit it off. He was he was a
[01:08:22] private citizen at the time. I'd read
[01:08:23] Hillbilly is when it came out I think in
[01:08:25] 2016 out a Tex in front of mine I think
[01:08:28] it was end of October 2016
[01:08:30] pressed a copy into my hands and said
[01:08:32] Trump is going to win and this is why uh
[01:08:34] you need to read this and I read it
[01:08:36] loved it. Wow.
[01:08:37] >> So he was on my radar um early on and
[01:08:40] then had the chance to meet him in 2019.
[01:08:41] We we hit it off. We talked a lot and
[01:08:43] not not actually very much about
[01:08:44] politics at all although you know we did
[01:08:46] a lot of philosophy talked about talked
[01:08:48] about faith talked about theology and um
[01:08:50] I thought gosh this guy this guy's
[01:08:52] promising he could be a congressman one
[01:08:53] day
[01:08:55] >> congressman
[01:08:57] looks like he got a bright future. Yeah,
[01:08:59] everybody. By the way, you know, I
[01:09:01] usually don't share numbers, but that
[01:09:02] him hosting Charlie's show, and I I hope
[01:09:06] people understand there's a there's a
[01:09:08] difference between a million views on
[01:09:09] YouTube and a different uh and a million
[01:09:11] downloads of a podcast. I I've never
[01:09:13] seen a podcast.
[01:09:15] >> Let's just say it's true. It's our most
[01:09:16] downloaded podcast.
[01:09:17] >> It's the most downloaded podcast
[01:09:19] episode. And I will just say that ever
[01:09:22] of all time. And JD does such a
[01:09:25] magnificent job. And I was thinking
[01:09:27] about that this morning, what he said on
[01:09:30] his episode when he hosted, he said,
[01:09:32] "Yes, we want unity, but first we have
[01:09:35] to have truth."
[01:09:37] And I think that is really relevant to
[01:09:39] something that's happening in our own
[01:09:41] news cycle right now. And the truth is,
[01:09:44] and and I think we're going to discuss
[01:09:45] both this hour about this both sidesism.
[01:09:47] It's a lie. But also Jimmy Kimmel said
[01:09:52] that,
[01:09:54] you know, he essentially inferred stated
[01:09:56] I think very clearly that the shooter
[01:10:00] was came from MAGA.
[01:10:02] >> And that really upset me. And I'll
[01:10:04] explain why. Because if you can lie
[01:10:06] about something so fundamental where
[01:10:08] this, you know, this individual had a
[01:10:11] trans boyfriend or whatever, however you
[01:10:13] supposed to say it, I think that's
[01:10:14] probably the right way to say it, that
[01:10:16] he was into all this weird stuff. He was
[01:10:18] writing all of all of these notes on
[01:10:20] these these bullet casings and things
[01:10:22] like that and his own parents were
[01:10:24] worried about his radicalism. And then
[01:10:25] to go on the air and say no actually it
[01:10:27] was from MAGA. MAGA killed him. What
[01:10:30] that means to me is that you can lie
[01:10:32] with impunity that there is a machinery
[01:10:34] in place that will defend you. your life
[01:10:36] is not important that I'm I'm free to
[01:10:39] desecrate you know your memory
[01:10:42] because
[01:10:44] conservative is bad and what you had it
[01:10:46] coming and more should you know it's
[01:10:48] basically a license to say we're going
[01:10:50] to support you guys if you guys go do
[01:10:52] this stuff out in the out in the real
[01:10:53] world and that's not okay
[01:10:56] >> and so we have clips Blake I don't know
[01:10:58] which clip it is the Jimmy Kimmel in
[01:11:00] response to the backlash you received I
[01:11:01] yeah uh we can just play one of these I
[01:11:05] mean, it doesn't matter. Uh,
[01:11:08] 132.
[01:11:10] >> I don't think what I have to say is
[01:11:12] going to make much of a difference. If
[01:11:13] you like me, you like me. If you don't,
[01:11:14] you don't. I have no illusions about
[01:11:16] changing anyone's mind. But I do want to
[01:11:18] make something clear because it's
[01:11:19] important to me as a human, and that is,
[01:11:22] you understand that it was never my
[01:11:24] intention to make light of the murder of
[01:11:26] a young man. I I don't
[01:11:33] I don't think there's anything funny
[01:11:34] about it. I I posted a message on
[01:11:37] Instagram on the day he was killed
[01:11:38] sending love to his family and asking
[01:11:40] for compassion and I meant it and I
[01:11:42] still do. Uh nor was it my intention to
[01:11:45] blame any specific group for the actions
[01:11:47] of what it was obviously a deeply
[01:11:49] disturbed individual. That was really
[01:11:52] the opposite of the point I was trying
[01:11:54] to make. But I understand that to some
[01:11:55] that felt either illtimed or unclear or
[01:11:58] maybe both. And for those who think I
[01:12:00] did uh point a finger. I get why you're
[01:12:03] upset. If the situation was reversed,
[01:12:04] there's a good chance I'd have felt the
[01:12:06] same way.
[01:12:08] >> So what I'm lacking there is a I'm
[01:12:11] sorry. I lied. I misrepresented the
[01:12:14] nature of who the shooter was. I'm
[01:12:16] sorry. I will do better. My sincerest
[01:12:19] apologies to Erica Kirk and to the Kirk
[01:12:21] family. And James, you're a Christian.
[01:12:24] explain the difference between what he
[01:12:26] did sort of parsing words, never kind of
[01:12:29] owning it. It was sort of I'm sorry if
[01:12:32] you were offended. Explain what a
[01:12:35] Christian what Christian contrition
[01:12:36] looks like, what it looks like in
[01:12:38] scripture historically, what it means
[01:12:39] and what that was lacking.
[01:12:42] >> Yeah. I mean, look, I I I could hear
[01:12:45] some contrition in in in his in his
[01:12:47] voice as was clearly emotional. whether
[01:12:49] the emotions was being driven by what
[01:12:51] had happened to him, you know, the the
[01:12:53] fact that his his career looked like it
[01:12:54] was on the precipice. Um, I I I I don't
[01:12:57] know. I mean, I think, you know, true
[01:13:00] contrition expresses itself in actions
[01:13:02] and um, you know, I I detected a sort of
[01:13:06] a hint of a politician's apology there.
[01:13:08] Just deeply
[01:13:09] >> deeply sorry that that that offense has
[01:13:11] been caused. Um but you know repentance
[01:13:15] you know the Greek the New Testament is
[01:13:17] metaninoa which means a a complete
[01:13:20] transformation of one's mind of one's
[01:13:22] intellect one's understanding one's
[01:13:23] heart um and uh you know the Latin
[01:13:27] translation I think is is pineetamonyy
[01:13:29] which is kind of not just repentance but
[01:13:31] do penance and there's a lot of debate
[01:13:33] about that in the reformation um about
[01:13:35] you know his sort of repentance is
[01:13:37] something not just of the heart but you
[01:13:38] you've got to do it you've got to do
[01:13:40] stuff that shows that there's going to
[01:13:42] be outward working the outward
[01:13:43] expression of inner contrition within
[01:13:46] within within one's heart. And um I
[01:13:49] don't know, look, I don't have a window
[01:13:50] into into men's souls. I don't have a
[01:13:52] window into Jimmy Kimmel's soul. I just
[01:13:54] hope that that this this this incident,
[01:13:57] this whole sorry saga has has has has
[01:13:59] made the left has has made the kind of
[01:14:01] you know American liberals think a lot a
[01:14:03] lot harder about the language that
[01:14:04] they're using and uh and and just and
[01:14:07] just being aware that that you know
[01:14:09] spinning the kind of conspiracy theories
[01:14:11] that are completely fact-free as seems
[01:14:13] to be the case with this extraordinary
[01:14:14] charge that that the killer was
[01:14:16] motivated by by by was was part of the
[01:14:19] MAGA movement. Uh just simply absurd not
[01:14:21] a shred of evidence for it. I I just
[01:14:23] hope that this will give them, you know,
[01:14:24] pause for thought and uh that it'll just
[01:14:26] slow things down and uh uh yeah, I mean,
[01:14:29] you know, we we just there cannot be
[01:14:31] civil discourse if it's, you know, if
[01:14:34] one side is constantly paying the
[01:14:36] consequences for uh uh you know,
[01:14:39] indiscreet speech or or or violent
[01:14:41] rhetoric and the other side effectively
[01:14:43] gets a free pass. And uh and that seems
[01:14:45] to be what's what's happening just not
[01:14:47] just in America, but all across the
[01:14:48] landscape of Western culture, Western
[01:14:50] politics. Yeah. When and I mean Blake I
[01:14:53] don't you have kind of a contrarian take
[01:14:55] here because you think this we should
[01:14:56] just sort of move on from this topic. I
[01:14:59] want the I want more.
[01:15:00] >> Well, so I what's frustrated me about it
[01:15:04] is it they went and due to sort of how
[01:15:07] it unfolded.
[01:15:08] >> We allowed it to become that like Jimmy
[01:15:10] Kimmel was this free speech martyr
[01:15:13] against like you know because we had
[01:15:14] Brendan Carr at the FCC. He stepped out
[01:15:17] and he basically said, "You better take
[01:15:18] him off the air or we're going to like
[01:15:20] investigate ABC and Disney and they're
[01:15:22] going to have to answer for all these
[01:15:24] things
[01:15:25] >> and you took what it should have been,
[01:15:27] which is Jimmy Kimmel said something
[01:15:29] disgusting." And there was there really
[01:15:30] was this big organic anger against them
[01:15:33] and that got tamped down and it turned
[01:15:36] into,
[01:15:37] >> oh, this guy in the Trump administration
[01:15:39] is silencing Jimmy Kimmel who is also
[01:15:42] lame and not funny. And it it it took
[01:15:46] something that was good and it changed
[01:15:47] it. And it also colored and
[01:15:49] unfortunately what we also saw which was
[01:15:52] the very organic anger against all the
[01:15:53] other people who said disgusting things.
[01:15:55] >> Yeah. I I want to keep talking about
[01:15:56] that. We'll do it in the break. Uh quick
[01:15:59] break on radio. We'll be right back.
[01:16:02] [Music]
[01:16:13] Yeah, keep going with that though,
[01:16:14] Blake. And I mean, I know there was I
[01:16:16] will say one of the things that I
[01:16:17] noticed and you saw this with the Pam
[01:16:19] Bondi. I think I think it was a misspeak
[01:16:22] on Pam Bondi's behalf because she kind
[01:16:24] of clarified her point after she was she
[01:16:25] was talking about incitement. She meant
[01:16:27] to get to incitement. She said hate
[01:16:28] speech.
[01:16:29] >> Frustrating because I I would just say
[01:16:31] there was a lot of voices that on the
[01:16:32] right that said we don't agree with the
[01:16:34] way she said that.
[01:16:36] >> That's not that's not our also
[01:16:37] frustrating.
[01:16:38] >> That's not Charlie's POV. We've had to
[01:16:39] endure. Now, we've had to endure all
[01:16:41] this stupid nasty fake stuff on the
[01:16:44] left. We're like, "Oh, the left, the
[01:16:45] right doesn't care about free speech at
[01:16:47] all. They want to crack down." No, the
[01:16:48] backlash to Bondi saying the hate speech
[01:16:50] thing was immediate. It was basically
[01:16:52] unanimous. It was dial this back right
[01:16:55] now. And she did, thankfully. Uh, but it
[01:16:58] is a similar it was a similar issue here
[01:17:01] where I think
[01:17:02] >> there is a huge amount of genuine
[01:17:04] backlash to what Kimmel did. I think he
[01:17:06] probably would have gotten suspended. In
[01:17:08] fact, we got reporting from the Wall
[01:17:10] Street Journal and others that suggested
[01:17:11] he was going to be suspended at minimum
[01:17:14] uh even without what Carr said. And I I
[01:17:17] think it put the wrong color on it that
[01:17:19] there was that kind of overt threat and
[01:17:22] then the way he was if you go to Carr's
[01:17:24] Twitter account, he was like posting all
[01:17:26] these memes and just like bragging about
[01:17:28] what he did. And I understand the
[01:17:31] impulse. You know, it is a way there is
[01:17:33] an element where the Trump movement made
[01:17:36] the movement more assertive, more, you
[01:17:38] know, more bragging. And we've seen
[01:17:40] we've seen it with like the ICE stuff
[01:17:42] where they're like, we're deporting
[01:17:43] people and here's a meme of this person
[01:17:45] who is also, you know, a child predator
[01:17:48] getting deported and it's great and
[01:17:49] people have liked that. But you do have
[01:17:53] to be careful because we do want to make
[01:17:55] sure that this is about that you know
[01:17:57] Charlie who is a martyr for free speech,
[01:17:59] a martyr for Christianity and we don't
[01:18:02] want that to turn into Charlie is ever
[01:18:06] considered some sort of like
[01:18:07] justification for an anti-e would reject
[01:18:10] that by the way. He was a basically a
[01:18:12] free speech absolutist. I mean, I I
[01:18:15] think I say basically because, you know,
[01:18:16] I'm I'm just hedging in my mind maybe
[01:18:19] some sort of incitement he would draw a
[01:18:21] line at, but you know, he believed in
[01:18:23] ugly speech. He believed in vile speech.
[01:18:25] He believed in the freedom to say evil
[01:18:26] things. I mean, that does cross the line
[01:18:29] into incitement, which is which is
[01:18:30] illegal when you're calling for violence
[01:18:32] for somebody. But I mean, I struggle
[01:18:35] with asking the question, you know, when
[01:18:36] we think about some of these ugly
[01:18:37] reactions, people celebrating, you think
[01:18:40] about the Oxford kid, sweat pants,
[01:18:43] sweatpants, bro. You know, where you're
[01:18:45] celebrating the murder of somebody,
[01:18:48] >> is that not incitement in in a in a
[01:18:50] certain way or I I think I think the
[01:18:52] spirit is certainly the same legally.
[01:18:53] The the the barrier, you know, is
[01:18:55] different.
[01:18:56] So one of the things that makes American
[01:18:58] free speech so exceptional even compared
[01:19:00] to other western nations is we have uh
[01:19:03] kind of the Brandenburgg standard for
[01:19:04] speech. It's a Supreme Court case and
[01:19:06] it's basically like it is in fact only
[01:19:08] incitement if you are directly calling
[01:19:11] for some criminal act and and like in a
[01:19:14] specific way. So if someone were to say
[01:19:17] someone should go to the Utah Valley
[01:19:20] event and shoot Charlie Kirk, that is
[01:19:22] incitement. But even saying someone
[01:19:24] should shoot Charlie Kirk isn't uh by
[01:19:26] itself and
[01:19:29] you know that lead that enables a lot of
[01:19:31] ugly speech as Charlie himself said I
[01:19:32] think he has a tweet where he says like
[01:19:34] there is ugly speech there is deranged
[01:19:36] speech but there is not hate speech and
[01:19:38] the thing with incitement what's good
[01:19:40] about that strict standard is
[01:19:41] >> that gives us so it means that an
[01:19:45] authoritarian government like the Biden
[01:19:46] administration has so little grounds to
[01:19:48] come out and say
[01:19:50] >> and the left loves to do this where oh
[01:19:51] this thing you said you know that was
[01:19:53] actually inciting hate against migrants
[01:19:55] that was inciting hate against trans
[01:19:57] people that was inciting hate against
[01:19:59] minorities just because you say oh I
[01:20:02] don't want more immigration and
[01:20:03] certainly Dr. or can tell us all about
[01:20:05] how that's been abused in the UK. That's
[01:20:07] where we're going next, which they'll
[01:20:09] claim they'll claim that's a free speech
[01:20:11] country, but it's clearly not.
[01:20:12] >> But that that this this is the
[01:20:13] distinction and and I think it's really
[01:20:15] important for us to remain morally very
[01:20:17] clear on this.
[01:20:18] >> I what I was trying to say was that
[01:20:21] celebrating the vicious murder of our
[01:20:24] friend is vile. It's ugly. It's nasty.
[01:20:27] And it is in the it is from the same
[01:20:29] demonic spirit that I think somebody
[01:20:31] would you know this incitement legal. So
[01:20:34] I'm talking there's two distinctions.
[01:20:36] There's almost like the the the demonic
[01:20:37] spirit that I would call it versus legal
[01:20:40] standard. And I'm not conflating the
[01:20:41] two.
[01:20:42] >> I'm saying so you know if you're going
[01:20:45] to if you're going to celebrate that
[01:20:46] certainly maybe you didn't break a law
[01:20:49] but you are you are participating in the
[01:20:51] same demonism. And I would just say I
[01:20:55] have not fully internalized that
[01:20:58] other than to say that may you live a
[01:21:01] life so remarkable, so courageous and so
[01:21:03] true that the demons celebrate when you
[01:21:08] die and may your enemies your enemies
[01:21:10] celebrate because you that means you
[01:21:11] have done something. you have been so
[01:21:14] extraordinary
[01:21:15] that you live rent free in their heads
[01:21:17] and they know not they don't know
[01:21:19] anything else to do other than to say
[01:21:21] you know thank goodness that
[01:21:22] extraordinarily effective person is off
[01:21:24] the board and and but you know in Saur
[01:21:28] and Kirk Kirkagard's words uh that's
[01:21:30] really just the beginning when a when a
[01:21:32] martyr dies and so uh we're going to
[01:21:34] welcome back radio we'll be right back
[01:21:36] in just one Yeah.
[01:21:47] >> So, Dr. Our Charlie was a free speech
[01:21:51] absolutist and one of the themes of his
[01:21:53] trip to the UK was about this issue of
[01:21:55] free speech. We've heard that in the UK
[01:21:58] it's 30 arrests are made a day for
[01:22:01] people criticizing immigration basically
[01:22:04] just this sea of human and you know we
[01:22:07] have a ton of immigration into this
[01:22:09] country which is one of you know my pet
[01:22:12] projects to limit that but we also have
[01:22:15] a country that's much larger and you it
[01:22:18] sort of can absorb the the visceral feel
[01:22:20] or the visual feel of it can absorb it a
[01:22:22] little bit differently than the UK which
[01:22:24] is uh remind me what are you 60 80
[01:22:26] million, I can't remember. So, if you
[01:22:27] have a couple million migrants coming
[01:22:29] into the UK, I mean, it's instantly very
[01:22:32] visible. It's very it it impacts the
[01:22:35] daily life of a lot of Britain's really
[01:22:37] quickly. Tell us about the state of free
[01:22:39] speech in your country. Did did this
[01:22:42] 100,000 person march push back against
[01:22:44] that? Was that a theme of it? Explain.
[01:22:46] >> Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Well, of course, you
[01:22:48] know, to go back to your earlier
[01:22:49] conversation, we don't have anything
[01:22:50] like the sort of sort of, you know, the
[01:22:52] jurist prudence that's built up around
[01:22:54] the first amendment over, you know, in o
[01:22:58] over the last 150 years. But I think up
[01:23:01] until, you know, the end of at the end
[01:23:03] of the the last century, there was no
[01:23:05] sense that that there was a kind of, you
[01:23:06] know, there were free speech problems in
[01:23:09] in Britain. It's really been the last 25
[01:23:12] years, I think, you know, intensifying
[01:23:14] of the last 10 to 15. And I don't think
[01:23:17] there's any real doubt that it is
[01:23:19] connected to the rapid uh uh uh
[01:23:23] demographic change at scale that we've
[01:23:25] witnessed in the last 25 years but
[01:23:27] particularly in the last 5 to 10 years.
[01:23:31] And and what happens there I think is
[01:23:33] that the sort of sense of a kind of high
[01:23:35] trust society, a moral community that
[01:23:37] is, you know, basically shares the same
[01:23:40] universe of norms and standards of
[01:23:45] of speech that kind of gets fragmented
[01:23:48] and uh and and silos begin to open up
[01:23:51] and there's really just a dialogue of
[01:23:53] the death between, you know, different
[01:23:55] blocks within different demographic
[01:23:58] blocks. And so there that sort of that
[01:24:00] sense of being a you know in a shared
[01:24:03] enterprise is starting to kind of
[01:24:05] unravel. And what happens there is that
[01:24:07] the state increasingly has to police
[01:24:09] these fragile boundaries between these
[01:24:13] different these different silos. And
[01:24:15] that's what we've seen in the last 10 to
[01:24:17] 15 years. We've seen it under a Labor
[01:24:19] government, leftwing government. We've
[01:24:20] seen it under the Conservative
[01:24:21] government. Uh the last conservative
[01:24:23] government government brought in
[01:24:25] something called an Orwellian phrase
[01:24:28] non-crime hate incidents where uh police
[01:24:32] can uh record your name or they they
[01:24:36] accept that no crime has been committed
[01:24:38] that you're exercising lawful free
[01:24:39] speech but they make a note of it. It
[01:24:42] goes on your record until recently. I
[01:24:43] think those that was on your on your
[01:24:45] record forever now. It's just this
[01:24:48] database. The state, the Leviathan is
[01:24:50] just collecting this.
[01:24:51] >> That's right. The police, you know, they
[01:24:53] they are policing tweets, not streets.
[01:24:56] Um, and it's it's getting it is getting
[01:24:59] worse.
[01:25:00] >> Can Nigel fix this as prime minister?
[01:25:01] >> Well, I think one of the central
[01:25:03] focuses, one of the kind of guiding one
[01:25:04] of the north stars of the reform sort of
[01:25:08] philosophy and policy agenda is without
[01:25:10] question free speech. So there's a lot
[01:25:12] of debates, I think, internally as to
[01:25:14] what that's going to look like. Isn't
[01:25:16] that just I mean, isn't that just
[01:25:18] politics? I want fewer immigrants in my
[01:25:20] country.
[01:25:21] >> Mhm. Uh yeah. So, look, you're not going
[01:25:23] to get uh Well, you may well get a knock
[01:25:25] on the door if you say that in the wrong
[01:25:27] way uh online. I mean, it wouldn't
[01:25:29] wouldn't surprise me. Uh but yes, I
[01:25:31] think that there's you know, there's
[01:25:33] this thing about this this sort of
[01:25:34] dominant left-wing orthodoxies become
[01:25:36] this sort of, you know, the become the
[01:25:38] the moral universe.
[01:25:40] >> Yeah. It's like a pur puritanical like
[01:25:42] >> a purity spiral. Exactly. Right. So that
[01:25:45] any disscent you know as I said earlier
[01:25:47] any wrong think is is evil thing you
[01:25:49] know it's something that that that is
[01:25:50] that is you know you you've got to
[01:25:52] demonize. So it's it's it's this old
[01:25:53] point that we've seen made it many
[01:25:57] it's you know on the left the idea is
[01:25:59] that you're not just wrong you're
[01:26:01] morally wrong and on the right you know
[01:26:03] okay maybe it's not always the case but
[01:26:05] I think generally speaking on the right
[01:26:06] we do just think that you know the left
[01:26:08] uh honestly and sincerely mistaken and
[01:26:10] we don't there isn't the same rhetoric
[01:26:12] widespread rhetoric of of demonizing and
[01:26:15] and and which and a kind of name calling
[01:26:18] that okay maybe it's not direct causal
[01:26:20] incitement maybe it doesn't meet the
[01:26:22] Brandenburgg standard, but it's
[01:26:23] certainly I think shifting the
[01:26:25] conditions. It's it's it's it's laying
[01:26:27] down the enabling conditions for
[01:26:28] violence. If you call somebody, you
[01:26:30] know, public figure Hitler fascist often
[01:26:33] enough, then it you shouldn't be
[01:26:35] surprising that uh that crazy people
[01:26:38] will do violence against them.
[01:26:39] >> It's one of the most frustrating things
[01:26:40] where we've had the left has certainly
[01:26:43] pushed in the last couple weeks to try
[01:26:44] to argue actually like there's more
[01:26:46] right-wing violence than left. And one,
[01:26:48] it's false. And we'll get into that in
[01:26:50] the rest of the show, but I'm just I'm
[01:26:51] looking at these tweets. Madaglacius,
[01:26:53] that like fat guy from Vox, uh he was
[01:26:56] like people reminded themselves of
[01:26:58] things he said a while ago. I'll read
[01:27:00] this one quick and we can go back into
[01:27:01] it, but he said it was when Tucker
[01:27:03] Carlson got harassed at his home in like
[01:27:06] 2017 or 2018. People were trying to like
[01:27:08] kick in his door basically and like
[01:27:10] terrorizing his house. And he was
[01:27:12] saying, I'll read the full tweets later,
[01:27:13] but he was basically saying this is a
[01:27:14] good thing. Like you should do this to
[01:27:16] right-wing people. And now he's going to
[01:27:17] come out and be like, "Oh, I oppose
[01:27:19] violence against the right." Well, no.
[01:27:22] You just are trying to read the winds,
[01:27:24] Matt.
[01:27:25] >> Dehumanization. Other otherization. Uh,
[01:27:29] we have a little bit of a surprise
[01:27:30] coming. Don't go anywhere.
[01:27:33] [Music]
[01:27:36] [Applause]
[01:27:38] [Music]
[01:27:52] Um, yeah. I mean, it it it is this theme
[01:27:56] where and and this is why I keep harping
[01:27:59] on this Kimmel apology. It is not
[01:28:01] contrition unless you take full
[01:28:03] accountability. And I remember Tucker
[01:28:05] actually said this once to me because
[01:28:06] you just brought up Tucker. Tucker said
[01:28:09] that he was taught at a very early age
[01:28:12] that your that your apology must be
[01:28:15] earnest and very very contrite.
[01:28:18] >> And he he said he's practiced this
[01:28:20] discipline his whole life. When he's
[01:28:22] sorry, he's like really sorry. And he'll
[01:28:23] look you in your eyes and he'll say,
[01:28:25] "I'm so so sorry. I'm so sorry for what
[01:28:28] I've done."
[01:28:30] >> And that there is something powerful
[01:28:32] that I think that unleashes in the human
[01:28:33] spirit. And and and what that also does
[01:28:35] is it it it in it confers the humanity
[01:28:40] of the person that you've wronged.
[01:28:42] >> It it says you are worthy of me
[01:28:46] swallowing this and owning it and being
[01:28:49] humble to it because you are worth it.
[01:28:52] >> And when you refuse to do that, you're
[01:28:54] essentially communicating you're not
[01:28:56] worth it. I don't believe in your
[01:28:58] inherent value. And you know,
[01:29:01] >> so what? I'm gonna just move on because
[01:29:03] I can.
[01:29:04] >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely right. And I
[01:29:07] think uh yeah, we have lost that sense
[01:29:09] of of uh you know, moral sincerity, the
[01:29:13] importance of of contrition and
[01:29:16] apologies just so quickly just become,
[01:29:19] you know, defensive defensive
[01:29:21] statements. You know,
[01:29:23] >> I have a question for you. It's a bit of
[01:29:24] a
[01:29:25] >> You handle it as you must. You are
[01:29:27] treading. I know you sort of have your
[01:29:30] hand in many pies right now. So, can the
[01:29:33] west be saved without Christianity?
[01:29:34] >> H well the west is built out of
[01:29:39] Christianity. Not only Christianity, but
[01:29:41] Christianity is the is the life force
[01:29:44] that fuses the helenic and the Hebraic
[01:29:47] engine rooms of Western civilization. It
[01:29:50] also and also harnesses the the the sort
[01:29:53] of power of of Roman civilization. And
[01:29:56] so, you know, to ask can the west
[01:29:59] survive without Christianity is is to
[01:30:01] say, well, you know, could the west just
[01:30:04] is that that is it its DNA. And all of
[01:30:08] our moral reflexes, even even our
[01:30:10] atheism, even our moral indignation
[01:30:13] against uh the wrongs of institutional
[01:30:16] religion is driven by a Christian
[01:30:18] impulse.
[01:30:18] >> The reason we know what bad is is
[01:30:20] because we've been told what good is,
[01:30:22] >> right? And yes, there is sort of a
[01:30:24] natural law I think baked into all of
[01:30:25] us, right?
[01:30:27] >> But we are as a civilization
[01:30:30] increasingly unable to get very obvious
[01:30:33] moral truths,
[01:30:35] >> a unonymity around them. Charlie Kirk
[01:30:38] was brutally murdered and assassinated.
[01:30:40] We didn't have unimity that that was a
[01:30:42] bad thing. And that is terrifying.
[01:30:45] >> Men are not women.
[01:30:47] >> That is a basic human truth. lived
[01:30:50] experience teaches us this.
[01:30:53] >> We can't get unonymity on that. Now, I
[01:30:55] think we're probably like 9010 on that
[01:30:57] at this is at this point.
[01:30:59] >> But can we remember the straight line,
[01:31:04] as Charlie would say,
[01:31:06] >> versus the crooked line without a moral
[01:31:09] judge over all of us? Something that we
[01:31:11] all ascribe to because that was what
[01:31:14] built the West. You're talking about the
[01:31:15] engine room. This is from which all of
[01:31:17] our values flow. all of our our our
[01:31:19] morals, our laws, our politics have
[01:31:22] historically all flowed from a center
[01:31:25] point that and his name is Jesus. And so
[01:31:28] I I'm like Anglicans, you know, I don't
[01:31:31] don't even get me started on Anglican. I
[01:31:32] don't you're I think you said in your
[01:31:34] your quote, you're hanging on by your
[01:31:36] knuckles or something by your
[01:31:37] fingernails. You're you're you're still
[01:31:39] an Anglican man. You're still a good
[01:31:40] Brit. But uh I you know
[01:31:44] my hope is that this galvanizing moment
[01:31:46] even in the UK and throughout Europe is
[01:31:48] going to restore this sense of moral
[01:31:50] centeredness and that's what Charlie
[01:31:51] would want. And you saw that outpouring
[01:31:53] at the memorial. It was almost like
[01:31:55] >> revival means that it yes it's new
[01:31:57] converts but it's also old converts or
[01:32:00] cultural Christians that are saying I
[01:32:02] want to get more into this. I want to
[01:32:04] embrace these these ideas. I hope I hope
[01:32:06] we see that in the UK. And there are
[01:32:07] there are signs.
[01:32:08] >> There are signs. I mean, I I saw just
[01:32:11] about a month ago, I talked about it
[01:32:12] with Charlie, some data that suggested
[01:32:14] in in Britain in 18 to 35 year olds,
[01:32:17] you're seeing a tripling of belief in
[01:32:19] God over the last 5 years. You're seeing
[01:32:22] a massive spikes in Bible sales. Um, now
[01:32:25] it's from a low, you know, from a low
[01:32:27] base, but and and you know, religious
[01:32:29] adherence and revival is notoriously
[01:32:31] difficult to capture, but something I
[01:32:34] think is stirring. Yes. this there was a
[01:32:36] tweet the other day where I think it was
[01:32:38] it was Michael Tracy who's done stuff
[01:32:39] some stuff we like but he was reacting
[01:32:41] to the rally where he's like they're
[01:32:43] saying there's a spiritual revival but
[01:32:44] how do how do you measure a spiritual
[01:32:46] revival well here's what I would say is
[01:32:48] that
[01:32:50] >> Christians are called to be salt and
[01:32:51] light we are the preservers of society
[01:32:54] we preserve the truth and I don't think
[01:32:57] we need to have all of us or the whole
[01:33:00] culture buy in to preserve the food the
[01:33:03] the good the nourishment for society. So
[01:33:05] something to keep in mind. We will be
[01:33:07] right back with radio. Don't go
[01:33:09] anywhere.
[01:33:18] >> The voice of generations is the Charlie
[01:33:21] Kirk show.
[01:33:23] All right, welcome back to the Charlie
[01:33:25] Kirk show, radio stations across the
[01:33:27] country. I'm Andrew Kovvet, executive
[01:33:29] producer of this show. Uh, we're
[01:33:31] remembering Charlie Kirk with one of
[01:33:33] Charlie's uh, British friends, uh, JD's
[01:33:36] mentor and uh,
[01:33:40] sorry to throw that on you. Just
[01:33:42] dredging up
[01:33:44] uh, just you know something you just
[01:33:46] hate. I love that you do. I love your
[01:33:48] humility that you just hate hate the the
[01:33:50] phrasing of that. But uh, that's of
[01:33:52] course Dr. James our professor at
[01:33:54] Cambridge. And what what is your
[01:33:56] official professorial title? They're
[01:33:58] always so long. Yeah. So we've actually
[01:34:00] switched to the American system now. We
[01:34:01] used to have nice old kind of Denzian
[01:34:04] names like junior lecturer, senior
[01:34:06] lecturer, reader. The the reader was
[01:34:08] baffling. If you were basically one off
[01:34:10] from a professor, you were a reader.
[01:34:12] >> Which uh well in the in the end Oxford
[01:34:15] and then Cambridge decided that that
[01:34:17] this was just too confusing. Like a
[01:34:18] reader, you're one off, you know, just
[01:34:20] one off a professor. It makes it sound
[01:34:22] like you just sit in the library and
[01:34:23] that's all you do. Um so I'm I'm an
[01:34:25] associate professor. I'm not a
[01:34:26] professor. So I'm one off a one-off full
[01:34:29] professor and uh what is my title?
[01:34:31] Associate professor of philosophy of
[01:34:33] religion. Um and so philosophy religion
[01:34:36] is my is is my area but I you know that
[01:34:37] that that covers a very wide wide range
[01:34:40] of different topics. There's a lot of
[01:34:41] moral philosophy what we've been talking
[01:34:42] about just now political philosophy
[01:34:44] philosophical theology. In fact, one of
[01:34:46] the things I'm one of the reasons I was
[01:34:48] always, you know, I was coming over to
[01:34:49] Arizona was to record to film some a
[01:34:52] series for Peterson Academy, uh, one on
[01:34:54] philosophy of religion, one on
[01:34:55] philosophy of mind, uh, consciousness,
[01:34:58] AI, the soul, and those kinds of
[01:35:00] questions. And I'm doing the third one
[01:35:02] is a is an introduction to Aristotle
[01:35:04] from logic to life.
[01:35:05] >> Wow.
[01:35:05] >> Uh, so so, so quick plug there. And
[01:35:08] yeah, no, Ch was he was so so hungry for
[01:35:10] all of that. wanted to know just just
[01:35:12] wouldn't wouldn't stop you know asking
[01:35:13] me for things you know lecture notes um
[01:35:18] and you know I I I hope I I hope I sort
[01:35:20] of did him proud with with my responses
[01:35:22] and uh you could just just see how
[01:35:24] seriously he was taking the tour as it
[01:35:26] was coming up in fact I think he said we
[01:35:28] were putting plans in place for me to go
[01:35:30] with him to University of Missouri I
[01:35:32] think on the 29th one of these on the
[01:35:34] 29th of September and
[01:35:35] >> and we were very and he said you know
[01:35:37] that's going to be the tough one you
[01:35:38] know that's that's that's where it's
[01:35:40] It's it's risky.
[01:35:41] >> Ferguson.
[01:35:41] >> Yeah. He said
[01:35:42] >> that's that's the one that's going to be
[01:35:44] the most dangerous. I said, "Well, I
[01:35:45] hope you got a lot of good security." He
[01:35:46] said, "Yeah, it's all it's all sorted.
[01:35:48] Don't worry about it." But, you know,
[01:35:49] >> by the way, can I make a mo a point of
[01:35:50] that just in defense of our security
[01:35:52] team? People need to understand that
[01:35:54] they do not have jurisdiction
[01:35:57] >> on the rooftops or the surrounding area.
[01:35:59] Their only jurisdiction on a campus is
[01:36:02] Charlie's physical proximity. Right.
[01:36:04] >> And they we're coordinating with local
[01:36:06] PD and campus PD to make sure all of
[01:36:10] those venues. But ultimately,
[01:36:11] >> we don't have counter snipers. We don't
[01:36:13] have the Secret Service.
[01:36:13] >> Right. Well, exactly. But in and many
[01:36:16] campus PDs do not have drone programs,
[01:36:18] which is a big problem. I'm actually
[01:36:21] working on that because it's something
[01:36:22] they should all have. It should be
[01:36:24] mandated by some sort of law. And so
[01:36:27] anyways, I just it's in quick defense of
[01:36:29] of the security. they're only allowed
[01:36:32] >> to protect his immediate vicinity. They
[01:36:34] have to rely on PD to uh secure the the
[01:36:39] larger perimeter. So anyways, that's one
[01:36:41] thing. Anyways, our our our team I said
[01:36:44] salt and light and they just like they
[01:36:45] were like here's Charlie on talking
[01:36:47] about salt and light. So why not? It's
[01:36:48] either 168 or 103. Play the clip.
[01:36:52] >> Call this to be salt and light. What
[01:36:54] does salt and light have in common? They
[01:36:55] change the environments they come in
[01:36:57] contact with. They don't conform. They
[01:36:59] don't affirm. They transform what they
[01:37:02] come in contact with. My question for
[01:37:03] you, are you transforming the
[01:37:06] environment you come in contact with?
[01:37:08] Your place of work. Are you transforming
[01:37:10] your family? Are you trying to lift
[01:37:11] people up? Are you trying to reject
[01:37:13] evil? It says in the Psalms, Psalm
[01:37:14] 97:10, what do you want to be caught
[01:37:16] doing upon Jesus's return? Do not allow
[01:37:19] esquetology to be an excuse for you not
[01:37:21] to fight evil. Do not allow the signs of
[01:37:23] the times for you to be paralyzed,
[01:37:25] static, to not engage in the culture. We
[01:37:27] must challenge people to be greater, to
[01:37:29] reach higher, to be biblical, to be
[01:37:31] Christlike. And I'm telling you, this
[01:37:33] generation cannot just be the most
[01:37:35] conservative generation, but the most
[01:37:36] Christian generation as we continue to
[01:37:38] be salt and light in every single walk
[01:37:40] of our life.
[01:37:42] >> Oh, man.
[01:37:44] Extraordinary. I mean, just going I I
[01:37:46] find it difficult to look at old footage
[01:37:48] and, you know, I've tried to just screen
[01:37:50] it all out because it's uh makes me too
[01:37:53] emotional. But it I he he had this
[01:37:55] extraordinary gift to talk about faith
[01:37:58] in a way that was just so accessible to
[01:38:01] it just grounded everything he said all
[01:38:03] of the all of the politics all of the
[01:38:04] sort of neuralgic issues in this kind of
[01:38:07] non-negotiable you know moral foundation
[01:38:10] and uh there was just such authenticity
[01:38:13] and sincerity there and I you know
[01:38:15] something that the that the right really
[01:38:17] needs to to remember that you got to be
[01:38:20] anchored in clear moral foundations and
[01:38:22] I think you without faith and without
[01:38:24] that sort of you know without that
[01:38:27] framing that Charlie was always so
[01:38:28] insistent on it it unravels it unravels
[01:38:32] and uh we get to towards a sort of you
[01:38:34] know nitian nilism or um or actual
[01:38:38] racism and it's just amazing to to just
[01:38:41] to to be reminded of what he was like in
[01:38:43] full flight and I never never seen him
[01:38:45] using notes never seen him reading from
[01:38:47] a speech but just extraordinary fluency
[01:38:50] and extraordinary sort with I mean just
[01:38:53] rhetoric just raw rhetorical flare for
[01:38:56] someone that young the story of how
[01:38:59] Charlie was discovered is I think very
[01:39:01] telling and actually something that Ben
[01:39:04] Shapiro because he had come in on the
[01:39:06] Tuesday after it happened and he he said
[01:39:08] you know Charlie wasn't charismatic at
[01:39:10] the beginning and Ben said wonderful
[01:39:11] things about Charlie please don't take
[01:39:12] this the wrong way but it's actually a
[01:39:15] bit of the opposite of that is he was
[01:39:18] gifted at from God without any training
[01:39:21] ing with this rhetorical flare. And the
[01:39:24] story was that Bill Montgomery was at
[01:39:26] this some some sort of tea party rally
[01:39:29] and Charlie was 18 and he was going to
[01:39:30] be one of the speakers cuz he had I
[01:39:33] think gains a little bit of local uh
[01:39:36] notoriety for for for organizing. So
[01:39:38] they invited him to be one of the
[01:39:39] speakers 18 years old and the story that
[01:39:41] that was conveyed to me is everybody's
[01:39:43] asleep. It's actually Bill told me this
[01:39:45] story actually many years ago. He said
[01:39:48] everybody was kind of asleep and dazed
[01:39:50] and bored. And then all of a sudden
[01:39:53] Charlie took the stage and Bill said it
[01:39:56] was like he looked at everybody in the
[01:39:57] audience. All of a sudden Charlie starts
[01:39:58] speaking and everybody goes head up,
[01:40:02] ears perk up because Charlie just had
[01:40:04] this way of his words would pierce
[01:40:07] like they would pierce your your your
[01:40:09] mind and your heart. And I think this is
[01:40:11] he he was his moral clarity was so
[01:40:14] strong that he did he was sort of like a
[01:40:17] dividing line like his words were a
[01:40:19] sword and they were they were sharp and
[01:40:21] they would cut through and it would
[01:40:23] force you to pick a side one he didn't
[01:40:26] leave you any ground to sort of remain
[01:40:28] in the mushy middle. He he would say
[01:40:30] things so and and he took a lot of flack
[01:40:32] for that. He took a lot of heat, took a
[01:40:34] lot of slings and arrows because he was
[01:40:36] so morally clear and he would say it
[01:40:39] with such force that you had to sort of
[01:40:43] wake up and perk up out of your seat. I
[01:40:45] I actually forgot that Bill told me that
[01:40:46] was the first time I ever bu met Bill
[01:40:48] Montgomery and may he rest in peace. Uh
[01:40:50] he died in 2020. Uh but you know that
[01:40:54] was that's that was Charlie from the
[01:40:55] start. It's easy to think, you know,
[01:40:57] obviously after 2016 on both sides of
[01:40:59] the Atlantic, you know, there was, you
[01:41:02] know, there many many more people are
[01:41:03] coming through and the sort of the new
[01:41:05] media emerged, you know, you are you
[01:41:07] were, you know, started to see a lot of
[01:41:09] incredible conservative voices coming
[01:41:10] through. But Charlie, at 18, this is
[01:41:12] we're talking the Obama years. This is
[01:41:14] the early 2010s when it was extremely
[01:41:16] costly and very rare for people of any
[01:41:19] age to be coming out that you know to
[01:41:22] have that kind of trenchant clear moral
[01:41:25] horizon and that clarity. Uh it's just
[01:41:28] just remarkable and uh it must have been
[01:41:31] you know Kirk Contraundum in 2012 and I
[01:41:34] can't you know I wasn't tracking
[01:41:35] American politics that closely back then
[01:41:37] but you know I would have thought within
[01:41:38] the GOP that would have been very
[01:41:40] unusual. Uh and uh he was he I don't
[01:41:44] know what sustained I don't know what
[01:41:45] where he got it from you know
[01:41:46] >> God it was straight from God I mean that
[01:41:49] God had a plan from Charlie's for his
[01:41:51] whole life but that 18 to 31
[01:41:54] >> charisma like that's difficult to put so
[01:41:56] much into it and you saw it up close in
[01:41:58] those last trips but he
[01:42:00] >> his schedule was truly to to to manage
[01:42:02] those that schedule that he kept
[01:42:04] especially at our conferences
[01:42:06] >> it it was booked from 6:00 a.m. to to
[01:42:08] the time he put his head down on the
[01:42:10] pillow.
[01:42:10] >> Mhm. It was truly remarkable how much he
[01:42:13] disciplined it took and and I want to
[01:42:15] say you talk about his fluency and this
[01:42:17] is something that Blake and and I talked
[01:42:19] about. I actually had a line in my
[01:42:20] speech at his memorial and I cut it just
[01:42:23] for time. But this show was his was how
[01:42:26] he got battle ready. And everybody kind
[01:42:29] of reflects how Charlie leveled up over
[01:42:31] the years and really and and I do think
[01:42:33] it was this show because every day he
[01:42:34] was forced to come on the show and
[01:42:36] defend his values or his political takes
[01:42:38] or his how he was reflecting on the
[01:42:40] current news of the day. And it just
[01:42:42] gave him repetitions, repetitions,
[01:42:44] repetitions. And originally the show was
[01:42:45] a three-hour show. So he was doing a
[01:42:47] three-hour show. We didn't move to a
[01:42:48] two-hour show until January of this
[01:42:50] year, which was really wonderful for his
[01:42:52] schedule because he could get more done.
[01:42:54] But he he it did really make him battle
[01:42:56] ready and some of the arguments we'd
[01:42:58] have before show. I mean it was that was
[01:43:01] really special moments,
[01:43:03] >> right, Blake?
[01:43:04] >> Yeah. Just I mean you it was it was your
[01:43:07] line. The battle ready was your line. So
[01:43:08] I was trying to give you credit for it
[01:43:10] and I was it
[01:43:11] >> it it was it was a good line. But so we
[01:43:13] do have a potential surprise coming for
[01:43:16] you. Somebody might be joining us. I
[01:43:18] don't want to flag it unless it ends up
[01:43:20] happening uh out of respect. But
[01:43:24] nevertheless, I really hope it happens
[01:43:25] because it would be it would I think it
[01:43:27] would be a really a really sweet moment
[01:43:28] if we can do it. In lie of that,
[01:43:31] however, Blake.
[01:43:32] >> Mhm.
[01:43:32] >> Let's talk about both sidesism.
[01:43:34] >> Yes, let's do that.
[01:43:35] >> Are both sides equally guilty of
[01:43:36] political violence?
[01:43:37] >> So, this is we've seen this a ton in the
[01:43:41] past well since this happened. So, this
[01:43:44] came out. It was obviously the most
[01:43:46] spectacular, the most damaging
[01:43:48] assassination in the US since RFK
[01:43:51] probably uh 50 years ago. And actually
[01:43:55] almost 60 years ago now
[01:43:57] >> and so it's been
[01:44:00] and so people are like, well, this fits
[01:44:02] into, you know, and it came right after,
[01:44:04] you know, there was this apparently
[01:44:06] racially motivated stabbing on that bus
[01:44:08] in Charlotte. And people are saying,
[01:44:10] okay, there's a lot of leftwing violence
[01:44:11] out there. And so these experts trott it
[01:44:14] out with some charts that were in the
[01:44:16] economist or in KO or whatever where
[01:44:19] they're like actually actually leftwing
[01:44:21] violence isn't common. It's rightwing
[01:44:22] violence that's way more common.
[01:44:24] >> I even heard them mentioning J6 yeah the
[01:44:26] D6. They have DHS you know DHS was made
[01:44:29] that a huge priority under Biden. They
[01:44:30] always like to make it a priority
[01:44:31] because you know that's who works at a
[01:44:33] lot of DA uh who was doing a lot of that
[01:44:35] work at DHS or at the FBI. make you know
[01:44:37] remember when they were investigating
[01:44:39] pro-life like Catholic churches because
[01:44:42] this was going to be this terrorist
[01:44:43] nexus
[01:44:43] >> and so finally people are saying you
[01:44:45] know what let's actually look at the
[01:44:47] numbers what is what is the real deal
[01:44:49] with these numbers because they're just
[01:44:50] getting pushed and so one of these
[01:44:52] studies that went really popular it was
[01:44:54] literally just compiled by an Antifa
[01:44:56] person an antifa person made a study of
[01:44:59] what was more common left or right wing
[01:45:01] and if you dig into the numbers there is
[01:45:03] so much lying about it uh so I'm looking
[01:45:06] at this thread by Tim Carney where he
[01:45:08] just looked at some of the numbers in um
[01:45:11] what they were using for this database.
[01:45:12] So, for example, a uh a suicidal young
[01:45:16] man made a hit list that included Trump
[01:45:18] on it. He then later killed two
[01:45:19] strangers who were both white. This was
[01:45:21] counted as right-wing political
[01:45:23] violence. According to an ADL study
[01:45:25] because the shooter had a swastika on
[01:45:27] his gun. Uh there was a felon in New
[01:45:30] Hampshire, uh Jesse James Sullivan, in
[01:45:32] 2024. He murdered his halfb brotherther
[01:45:34] who was white, but they counted it as a
[01:45:36] right-wing political violence because he
[01:45:38] had joined a white prison gang while he
[01:45:40] was in prison.
[01:45:41] >> By the way, previous offens prison, you
[01:45:43] have to find somebody that will protect
[01:45:44] you.
[01:45:45] >> Uh there's someone I found where someone
[01:45:47] like sent anti-gay like made a
[01:45:49] harassment call to George Santos and
[01:45:51] said that he had like hurt the gay
[01:45:52] community with what he did. And that was
[01:45:54] like right-wing anti-government threats.
[01:45:56] >> All right. Well, uh we're going to take
[01:45:58] a quick radio break. I think we're going
[01:45:59] to keep going in the in the in the
[01:46:01] stream. Hang hang tight.
[01:46:04] [Music]
[01:46:15] All right, welcome back for the stream.
[01:46:17] Keep going, Blake. Cuz this George
[01:46:19] Santos, he So this guy
[01:46:21] >> calls him and makes a threat to him
[01:46:22] because he cuz George Santos made fools
[01:46:24] of the gay community.
[01:46:25] gay activist left a threatening
[01:46:27] voicemail for George Santos and said he
[01:46:29] felt he had undertaken under anti-gay
[01:46:31] acts and that was right-wing government
[01:46:34] focused violence.
[01:46:36] >> Uh and then uh another one was a
[01:46:38] homeless man uh broke into a hotel and
[01:46:41] attacked someone and used a racial slur.
[01:46:43] It was later put in a mental
[01:46:44] institution. Oh, that's a that's
[01:46:47] right-wing racially motivated violence.
[01:46:49] Jesus. And so this happens over and over
[01:46:51] and there's even a chart that was in uh
[01:46:54] I think this was in the Economist
[01:46:56] somewhere, but it shows that you know
[01:46:58] over time and how it they allegedly
[01:47:00] there's all this right-wing violence
[01:47:01] that peaks in 2018 2019 and then it goes
[01:47:03] down in 2020. And that's how you always
[01:47:05] know all this stuff is BS. Whenever they
[01:47:08] put out these studies, they don't count
[01:47:09] what was clearly the biggest outburst of
[01:47:12] politically motivated violence in our
[01:47:14] lifetimes, which is in 2020, George
[01:47:17] Floyd died. We had gigantic riots in
[01:47:19] Minneapolis where they burned down a
[01:47:21] police station. We had gigantic violence
[01:47:24] in uh sorry, one moment there. We had
[01:47:27] gigantic violence in Minneapolis. We had
[01:47:29] gigantic violence in DC. Are
[01:47:31] >> they counting this all as rightwing?
[01:47:32] >> I think they're just not even counting
[01:47:34] it. They're just like, "Oh, that that's
[01:47:35] something else. This is mostly it's
[01:47:37] mostly peaceful protests." Or they'll
[01:47:39] say someone has to be convicted and life
[01:47:41] hack. Don't convict people.
[01:47:43] >> Which one? This is the prosecution
[01:47:44] project. So, so the prosecution project,
[01:47:46] this is one that was getting shared a
[01:47:48] lot that was supposedly tracking what
[01:47:51] violence occurs and what they'll often
[01:47:53] do. So, for example, in this chart they
[01:47:55] say resulting in a guilty verdict. So,
[01:47:57] if they have clearly hundreds or
[01:48:00] thousands of people going around
[01:48:02] smashing windows, doing graffiti
[01:48:04] everywhere, terrorizing the public, but
[01:48:06] oh, nobody was convicted of this,
[01:48:09] >> right? This is a great point. This is a
[01:48:10] great point because nobody was convicted
[01:48:12] of anything. As a matter of fact, the
[01:48:13] cities ended up settling with many of
[01:48:15] the families.
[01:48:17] Giving the money or St. Louis St. Louis
[01:48:20] a mob ter like braze and terrorizes that
[01:48:23] family. Was that the McCloskis?
[01:48:25] >> Yeah, the McCloskies.
[01:48:26] >> The McCloskies. The McCloskies bring out
[01:48:28] empty guns to have these people not
[01:48:30] storm their house and attack them. And I
[01:48:33] bet that's probably counted as nothing
[01:48:35] or it's going to be counted as
[01:48:36] right-wing violence. You know, anti
[01:48:38] anti-protester, anti-racial justice. And
[01:48:41] it's just a total sham. They besieged a
[01:48:43] courthouse in Portland for that. Oh,
[01:48:45] that was another one. One of the data
[01:48:47] sets that was getting shared around, it
[01:48:48] did not count a member of Antifa taking
[01:48:51] a gun, shooting a Trump supporter in the
[01:48:54] head in a murder. And they didn't count
[01:48:55] that as left-wing political violence.
[01:48:58] >> Mhm. Mhm.
[01:48:59] >> Probably because he wasn't convicted
[01:49:00] because he was killed by the police
[01:49:01] before he actually
[01:49:02] >> Well, and this is why it's such an a
[01:49:04] salient point you're making is because
[01:49:07] >> we saw in the aftermath of what happened
[01:49:09] to Charlie,
[01:49:11] >> we didn't riot. We didn't burn down
[01:49:13] buildings. We didn't
[01:49:14] >> It is We need to learn the talking
[01:49:17] points.
[01:49:17] >> We did not loot businesses.
[01:49:19] >> We prayed.
[01:49:20] >> And like everyone knows this. Nobody is
[01:49:23] like nobody actually you know was uh you
[01:49:26] know prepping their stores or anything
[01:49:28] or nobody was doing excess preparations
[01:49:30] like oh we have to be ready you know
[01:49:32] after no one was worried about the
[01:49:33] Charlie Kirk riots. Nobody was even
[01:49:35] worried about that. We might have
[01:49:37] worried about other violence happening
[01:49:39] but nobody was worried oh all of those
[01:49:41] conservatives who like Charlie Kirk are
[01:49:42] going to go and burn down you know Salt
[01:49:46] Lake City burn down Phoenix. No one was
[01:49:48] worried about that. We do worry about
[01:49:50] that all the time with Antifa, with BLM,
[01:49:53] with causes that are on the left. This h
[01:49:56] this is what the reality is statistics
[01:49:59] about this.
[01:50:00] >> You can trade statistics and studies all
[01:50:01] you like, but the true character of a
[01:50:03] political movement comes out in moments
[01:50:05] of crisis and of tragedy. And I'm sorry,
[01:50:08] but the contrast is as clear as day
[01:50:11] between what happened in May, the
[01:50:13] aftermath of the the Floyd killing in
[01:50:14] May 2020 and and and and Charlie's
[01:50:17] death. I mean that that that what you
[01:50:18] were saying earlier, Andrew, just not a
[01:50:21] single arrest. You know, 100,000 people
[01:50:23] in that stadium and I, you know, we we
[01:50:25] were all there. It was just so peaceful.
[01:50:27] There was nothing
[01:50:27] >> there was almost 300,000 people in and
[01:50:30] around the stage.
[01:50:31] >> Yeah.
[01:50:31] >> Got to welcome back radio. Uh hang
[01:50:34] tight. Final segment of the day.
[01:50:37] Excited.
[01:50:41] [Music]
[01:50:47] All right, welcome back. The final
[01:50:50] segment of the show. It has flown by and
[01:50:53] it's really a tragedy. Uh, Dr. drawer
[01:50:55] because we could we could really I mean
[01:50:59] if we wanted to just pick you know a
[01:51:01] single thread pick any any of them from
[01:51:04] the western cannon you would then let me
[01:51:07] let loose like a mustang to just you
[01:51:09] know delve into this chapter and verse
[01:51:12] of this ancient text and we could go on
[01:51:15] for hours. So, it's almost a disservice
[01:51:17] to you to make you reflect at all on
[01:51:21] the, you know, the ice shooting or, you
[01:51:23] know, the the statistics about X, Y, and
[01:51:26] Z because truly you are a marvel and you
[01:51:29] are a unique human that that understands
[01:51:32] the Western cannon and what built
[01:51:34] Western civilization unlike anybody I've
[01:51:37] ever met. And I had some wonderful time
[01:51:39] with you. And we have a a really dear
[01:51:41] shared friend uh Don Williams who is
[01:51:43] actually the man that married me and my
[01:51:44] wife who you happen to know and we
[01:51:46] discovered our mutual connection. Don
[01:51:48] went to be with Jesus a couple years ago
[01:51:51] but a truly remarkable man that had a
[01:51:54] great great life and a great ministry
[01:51:55] and he ministered to you and he
[01:51:57] ministered to me. And so I I think the
[01:52:00] floor is yours my friend. Like end this
[01:52:02] end this hour as you you see fit. And I
[01:52:04] mean, maybe it's remembering Charlie,
[01:52:06] maybe it's maybe it's what you hope to
[01:52:08] see come from this. And
[01:52:10] >> whatever it is, the floor is yours.
[01:52:12] >> Thank you, Andrea. The checks in the
[01:52:13] post later. Um, that's so good of you to
[01:52:16] say and and uh it's so strange to to to
[01:52:19] meet not not just Charlie, but but but
[01:52:21] you and to his team and just just a few
[01:52:23] months ago and yet, you know, felt like
[01:52:25] just, you know, lifelong friendships
[01:52:28] were emerging and we just had these
[01:52:30] these great plans. And I I learned far
[01:52:33] more from Charlie than I think he
[01:52:35] learned from me because, you know, I I
[01:52:37] think I was joking earlier. I was I
[01:52:39] spent months trying to get him to call
[01:52:41] me James, but it was always doctoral.
[01:52:43] That incredible kind of
[01:52:44] >> right. It's ironic that he's known to be
[01:52:47] sort of anti- college and all this
[01:52:48] stuff, but yet when he met a true
[01:52:49] scholar,
[01:52:50] >> how much reverence he actually had
[01:52:52] >> and that came across, I thought, in
[01:52:54] Larry Anne's beautiful tribute to him in
[01:52:56] the stadium. And I I've never never seen
[01:52:59] Larry,
[01:53:01] you know, deeply kind of, you know,
[01:53:02] moved like that. He's always very good
[01:53:04] at keeping it together. But I I it was
[01:53:06] just such an extraordinary testimony. I
[01:53:08] think he mentioned at one point that,
[01:53:10] you know, he said to he said to Charlie,
[01:53:12] you know, you got to learn and it's
[01:53:13] going to take suffering. It's a great
[01:53:16] bit of wisdom from Islamon pathet.
[01:53:21] And uh that idea just Larry's just
[01:53:24] instills that in his in his uh in his
[01:53:27] cohorts at Hillsdale and then just
[01:53:28] Charlie goes off and does all 31
[01:53:30] Hillsdale courses available then you
[01:53:33] know comes back comes back for more and
[01:53:36] uh ju just extraordinary and I I think
[01:53:38] you know it's hard to hard you know hard
[01:53:41] to replace somebody with that that kind
[01:53:42] of package of of powers and skills and
[01:53:45] abilities and aptitudes and
[01:53:47] >> you can't replace him. Not but but I
[01:53:50] felt on Sunday you know something had
[01:53:53] shifted and that although he could not
[01:53:55] be replaced there was there's something
[01:53:58] something stirring um uh something that
[01:54:01] is something that is that is peaceful
[01:54:03] something that is you know that that is
[01:54:05] kind of recovering the ancient the
[01:54:08] ancient vision for the west um of hope
[01:54:11] of faith of love the great you know the
[01:54:14] great trinity of theological virtues and
[01:54:17] Um, it it was just extraordinary to to
[01:54:19] to witness that. And uh there's a kind
[01:54:22] of envy. I remember that that last show
[01:54:24] we did that well that that was aired as
[01:54:25] his last show. We recorded it back in
[01:54:27] August. And I think I opened it by
[01:54:29] saying I don't normally like watching
[01:54:30] the things I do, but I I wanted to watch
[01:54:31] that because I wanted to be reminded of
[01:54:33] of him and and of our time together. And
[01:54:35] I think I just started by saying, look,
[01:54:37] you know, young people are always saying
[01:54:39] we want to change the world. And I tend
[01:54:41] to think that the world would be a much
[01:54:43] better place if fewer young people try
[01:54:45] to change it. But in but in Charlie's
[01:54:47] case, I said, you know, you really are
[01:54:48] changing the world. You are really
[01:54:49] shifting shifting things in in in in in
[01:54:52] extraordinary ways. And I think I said
[01:54:54] at one point, we need to we need to
[01:54:56] bottle some Kirk juice and bring it back
[01:54:57] to
[01:54:58] >> bring it back to the mother country. And
[01:55:00] uh but I think I I think there's going
[01:55:02] to be a a a lot of Kirk juice in Britain
[01:55:05] now.
[01:55:06] >> It's been better than bottled. It's been
[01:55:07] unleashed.
[01:55:08] >> That's right. That's right. There's
[01:55:09] going to be there's a there's a there's
[01:55:10] a torrent of it all over uh all over the
[01:55:12] West now. and and he what what a role
[01:55:14] model he will be what an exemplar he
[01:55:16] will be uh in in in death to to to to so
[01:55:20] many many who who who' never really come
[01:55:22] across him before it's true as I said in
[01:55:25] Britain he's being he's being discovered
[01:55:27] for the first time by by by by millions
[01:55:29] of of
[01:55:30] >> France I've heard similar stories about
[01:55:31] France Italy and even Spain
[01:55:34] >> especially among the young I haven't
[01:55:35] lost count of the number of people
[01:55:36] saying like I never heard of this guy
[01:55:37] but my my my children are talking about
[01:55:40] it my children are incredibly upset and
[01:55:42] uh and it and it's just an just an
[01:55:45] extraordinary legacy. I count it just
[01:55:47] such a high honor to have got to know
[01:55:48] him in the last few months of his life.
[01:55:50] And and uh we we we must honor him in in
[01:55:53] the months and years ahead. Honor his
[01:55:55] legacy. And uh
[01:55:56] >> you and he shared a a a mission
[01:55:58] >> to save the West
[01:56:01] >> and um we must uh we must do that. We
[01:56:05] must
[01:56:05] >> it's worth saving. It's beautiful. And
[01:56:08] uh that was his passion.
[01:56:10] >> Um
[01:56:12] It's just been an honor to have you
[01:56:13] here, Dr. Ore. James, I don't know.
[01:56:17] Yeah, Dr.
[01:56:19] >> We'll see you tomorrow.
[01:56:20] >> Thank you, Andrew. Thank you, Blake.
[01:56:22] [Music]
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