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[00:00:00] We had a situation where a mom called me [00:00:02] and [music] there were girls in her [00:00:04] class at school, an all girls school, [00:00:05] that had sugar daddies. I was like, "How [00:00:07] are they finding the girls?" And it was [00:00:10] Vinmo. I'm like, Vinmo? [00:00:11] >> Vinmo? That's the app I used to pay my [00:00:14] babysitter. That's not something on [00:00:16] anyone's radar as where the traffickers [00:00:18] go to find kids. They could find out who [00:00:20] a 13-year-old girl was just [music] by [00:00:21] her patterns on Vinmo, right? Like money [00:00:24] at Sephora, girls night at the movie. [00:00:26] you know, it's just uh for a predator, [00:00:28] they're smarter than uh [music] parents [00:00:30] can keep up with, right? So, that was a [00:00:32] new one. Um Venmo, [00:00:35] >> that's a Wow. [00:00:36] >> And so, [music] then they would send [00:00:37] these girls like $100 for a headsh shot, [00:00:40] you could be a model. [00:00:41] >> All right, Elizabeth, getting ready for [00:00:43] the big interview, but we got these [00:00:45] things we do every once in a while. It's [00:00:46] a new thing actually for this year. Uh [00:00:48] we're calling them hot questions. [00:00:50] >> All right. [00:00:51] >> And um so it's going to be a really [00:00:52] heavy interview about [00:01:00] That was weird. [00:01:01] >> Mhm. [laughter] [00:01:03] >> What is that thing? [00:01:03] >> It's going to be I think my phone just [00:01:05] fell off. [00:01:06] >> Oh. [00:01:06] >> Uh going to be a really heavy interview [00:01:08] about your brother, his suicide, what [00:01:12] happened at Camp Canakook. And um and so [00:01:16] that's kind of be the the topic of the [00:01:18] of the interview is sexual abuse. And um [00:01:22] and so the hot question we have here is [00:01:25] we've uncovered a lot about how children [00:01:27] are being targeted online, especially [00:01:29] through video games and platforms that [00:01:31] parents often seem often see as [00:01:34] harmless. When Ryan Montgomery came on [00:01:37] the show, he broke down how predators [00:01:39] are actively using games like Roblox to [00:01:42] groom and exploit children and how these [00:01:45] platforms have struggled to stop it. [00:01:47] What are the most popular games that [00:01:48] they that the 764 cult is luring their [00:01:53] victims out of? [00:01:53] >> Roblox, Minecraft, Instagram, Tik Tok, [00:01:56] Snapchat. [00:01:57] >> Okay. Tell me about Roblox and [00:02:00] Minecraft. Cuz I don't know anything [00:02:02] about gaming. I don't game. I don't [00:02:04] >> Understood. I I don't either, but it's [00:02:06] it's part of the investigation. You got [00:02:08] to a lot of times I'm investigating I [00:02:10] end up on these games or apps and Roblox [00:02:13] is the one that I focus on the most [00:02:15] because that seems like the majority of [00:02:17] the issues right now. [00:02:18] >> I know little kids that use that game. [00:02:20] >> There's 75 million active daily users. [00:02:23] >> You're a parent yourself. What specific [00:02:26] steps and safeguards do you put in place [00:02:28] to protect your own children from online [00:02:30] predation? [00:02:32] [clears throat] and what should every [00:02:34] parent be doing right now that many [00:02:36] still aren't? [00:02:37] >> It's a great question and especially [00:02:40] because things keep evolving and so [00:02:42] you've got to keep up, right? And um I'm [00:02:45] really grateful for people like Ryan who [00:02:47] are exposing this stuff. Uh my kids are [00:02:50] 13, 11, and seven, almost eight. And so [00:02:54] I've uh I just know too much, right, to [00:02:57] let them have access to the worldwide [00:03:01] web. It's crazy out there. And these [00:03:03] tech companies aren't doing anything to [00:03:05] protect kids. They build their [00:03:06] businesses for profit, not for [00:03:08] protection. So, um, my oldest being 13, [00:03:12] a lot of his friends have cell phones. [00:03:14] Even my 11-year-old's friends, and we [00:03:16] just don't do that. I mean, we let them [00:03:19] have, um, [00:03:20] >> they don't have any phone, [00:03:21] >> no phones for the kids. Um there's a [00:03:26] kind of group consensus of wait till 8th [00:03:28] and then get like a very basic phone [00:03:30] that doesn't have apps on it just for [00:03:32] communication. [00:03:33] >> Um so we'll do something like that for [00:03:36] our oldest when he's in eighth grade [00:03:38] probably. [00:03:39] >> Uh but they have iPads. They're super [00:03:42] locked down. Uh we do not let them play [00:03:45] Roblox. And uh here's an example of what [00:03:49] people don't even realize that I want [00:03:52] parents to know. When I was the board [00:03:53] chair of an anti-trafficking [00:03:54] organization during CO, I would get a [00:03:57] lot of tips or parents calling because [00:03:59] they knew like I was doing some work [00:04:00] around this and they also knew about my [00:04:03] brother's story. And uh we had a [00:04:06] situation where mom called me and there [00:04:08] were girls in her class at school, an [00:04:10] all girls school that had sugar daddies. [00:04:13] And these were, you know, 15-year-old [00:04:15] girls and multiple of them had sugar [00:04:19] daddies. And [00:04:21] I was like, "How are they finding the [00:04:23] girls?" And it was Vinmo. [00:04:25] >> I'm like, "VMO? [00:04:26] >> Vinmo? That's the app I use to pay my [00:04:29] babysitters or, you know, like reimburse [00:04:31] someone for co-hosting a birthday dinner [00:04:34] or something." That's not something on [00:04:36] anyone's radar as where the traffickers [00:04:39] go to find kids. And what was happening [00:04:42] is they would find through the patterns [00:04:45] because Vinmo's if you don't uh have [00:04:47] privacy settings on it defaults to [00:04:49] public. And I don't know if that's [00:04:51] changed, but in this case, they could [00:04:54] find out who a 13-year-old girl was just [00:04:55] by her patterns on Vinmo, right? Like [00:04:58] money at Sephora, girls night at the [00:05:00] movie. You know, it's just uh for a [00:05:02] predator, they're smarter than uh [00:05:05] parents can keep up with, right? So that [00:05:07] was a new one. [00:05:08] >> Venmo. Vinmo. That's a Wow. [00:05:11] >> And so then they would send these girls [00:05:12] like $100 for a headsh shot, you could [00:05:15] be a model, you know, the whole like [00:05:19] love bombing, right? And then it would [00:05:21] escalate into if you go lower, I'll pay [00:05:23] you more money. And then lower then it [00:05:25] became sextortion [00:05:27] and then there's so much shame they [00:05:29] don't tell a parent. The reason this [00:05:30] came to our attention was because one of [00:05:32] the girls uh one of the families was [00:05:35] hosting a girl uh like as a boarding [00:05:38] student and she didn't understand what [00:05:41] was happening and she just said, "Yeah, [00:05:43] my friends have sugar daddies." And the [00:05:45] mom that was hosting her was like, [00:05:46] "What?" And that's how we uh ended up [00:05:49] figuring out what was going on there and [00:05:51] getting law enforcement involved and [00:05:53] stuff. [00:05:54] >> The the school didn't really do much [00:05:55] about it, but [00:05:56] >> Wow. [00:05:58] That's the world we live in now. It's [00:06:00] like even these apps we think are so [00:06:02] innocuous um and are [snorts] helpful [00:06:05] right in day-to-day life. Uh they can be [00:06:08] used under the right cir I mean during [00:06:10] co just as every industry had to pivot [00:06:12] so did the predators and so they went [00:06:15] more online and they find [00:06:17] vulnerabilities in all of these apps. [00:06:19] >> Man, [00:06:20] >> it's crazy. [00:06:21] >> You know, it's crazy how many of them [00:06:23] there are. [00:06:24] >> It's wild. I mean, I don't know how many [00:06:26] of these shows you've seen or if you [00:06:28] even know who Ryan Montgomery is, but um [00:06:31] when the first time I interviewed him, I [00:06:35] I just I didn't believe this I was [00:06:37] like, "Nah, it's not that bad." And so, [00:06:40] I made him prove it to me. I was I don't [00:06:42] know if you saw it, but I was like, [00:06:43] "Whip your laptop out. Get in any chat [00:06:45] room. I don't care what it is. I I will [00:06:47] sit here for two days." [00:06:48] >> Yeah. And probably like within seconds, [00:06:50] they were [00:06:51] >> It was 5 seconds. [00:06:52] >> 5 seconds. Yep. Exactly. I was like, [00:06:54] "Whoa." [00:06:55] >> But, you know, and then I look at [00:06:57] parents. I mean, I have two little ones [00:06:59] myself and um one of them's kind of just [00:07:02] now starting to show interest and you [00:07:06] know, he wants to take my iPad or you [00:07:09] stuff like that. He's starting to learn [00:07:11] how to work a remote [00:07:12] like that. And you know, but I see [00:07:14] a lot of parents and they don't even [00:07:16] they don't even take advantage of the [00:07:18] stuff that the platforms are using like [00:07:20] YouTube Kids and stuff like that. steps. [00:07:23] And I if you're not in this, if you [00:07:26] don't understand this world, I can see [00:07:27] how parents are overwhelmed by just the [00:07:30] amount of steps you have to take to lock [00:07:31] down a kid's device. [00:07:33] >> We're overwhelmed. Well, we don't have [00:07:34] any kids' devices yet. But [00:07:36] >> yeah, already overwhelmed. I mean, [00:07:37] here's another thing I'll say. Keep your [00:07:39] kids off YouTube. Uh I've had friends [00:07:42] who their son was uh on the bus to [00:07:45] school and some kid had an iPad and they [00:07:49] were watching cartoons and it just rolls [00:07:50] to the next on YouTube. you know, I'll [00:07:52] like go from one video straight into the [00:07:54] next. And uh it was animated porn. [00:07:58] It was cartoon characters doing sexually [00:08:02] explicit things. Uh and this was on they [00:08:05] were watching something innocent and [00:08:06] then it rolled to this video and uh that [00:08:10] kid has had so many issues from that. [00:08:13] >> Fortunately, he eventually told his [00:08:14] parents and they got him some help and [00:08:17] you know that's not your fault, but this [00:08:18] is why we don't want you on YouTube. Um [00:08:22] there are even some issues with YouTube [00:08:23] kids. [00:08:24] >> Is there what are those issues? [00:08:26] >> Yeah. Uh so I actually I got in touch [00:08:29] with um the team at Mr. Beast. We met at [00:08:34] this thing and um I told them some exact [00:08:36] examples and they were like we don't [00:08:40] need to be on YouTube Kids. We're [00:08:42] YouTube, right? But like YouTube Kids, [00:08:44] we can call up there and say we're out [00:08:46] of here if you're like promoting these [00:08:48] materials on YouTube Kids. So, like the [00:08:51] chief technology officer at the time for [00:08:52] YouTube Kids like made a couple phone [00:08:54] calls and got this stuff taken down, but [00:08:56] same stuff on YouTube Kids. [00:08:58] >> Wow. [00:08:59] >> And these channels had been reported [00:09:01] multiple times, like not just a couple [00:09:04] of times. [00:09:05] >> Yeah, it's interesting. [00:09:06] >> And until they got that call from [00:09:07] someone that works for Mr. Beast, they [00:09:08] didn't do anything about it. [00:09:11] So, our kids, if they want to watch [00:09:13] YouTube, it's with a parent in the room. [00:09:16] And they know this. We're very strict [00:09:18] about it. And um [snorts] [00:09:20] it's very limited. [00:09:21] >> What do they watch? What are they [00:09:23] allowed to watch on their own? [00:09:25] >> Anything? [00:09:27] >> We love family movie night. We do family [00:09:29] movie night on Friday nights and we pick [00:09:31] out a movie together and they're [00:09:32] watching with their parents. Now, I [00:09:34] don't think my kids need to live in a [00:09:35] bubble. I think parents need to be uh [00:09:40] watching this stuff and processing it [00:09:42] with their kids [00:09:44] >> so that there can be conversations. [00:09:46] >> Mhm. And then you have the conversation [00:09:47] with them too around um if you ever see [00:09:52] something that feels off to you. There [00:09:55] are tricky people and there are there's [00:09:58] tricky content like that animated [00:10:00] cartoon porn, right? Um come to us and [00:10:04] you don't need to deal with that alone [00:10:06] and we'll figure it out. And then like [00:10:07] that Mr. Be situation getting that taken [00:10:09] down off YouTube Kids, they were like, [00:10:11] "Oh, cool. We just made YouTube." And I [00:10:13] was like, "Yeah, so now you're my [00:10:14] YouTube kid moderators. If you ever see [00:10:16] anything like that, come to us. We'll [00:10:18] get it taken down. It's not an excuse [00:10:20] for them to watch more more of it, but [00:10:22] um I think helping kids feel like part [00:10:24] of the solution is a great way to [00:10:26] parent. And then having those [00:10:26] [clears throat] conversations with them [00:10:28] around what's appropriate, what's not [00:10:30] appropriate. Um but the average age a [00:10:33] child's exposed to pornography is 11 [00:10:35] these days, [00:10:37] >> man. [00:10:37] >> And they're not seeking it out. I mean, [00:10:39] vast majority of the time it finds them [00:10:42] or it's that situation on the bus I [00:10:44] mentioned. And um they don't want to get [00:10:46] in trouble cuz they don't want to lose [00:10:47] their iPad so they don't go to mom and [00:10:49] dad. [00:10:50] >> Do your do you I mean do your kid do you [00:10:51] get a lot of flack for not letting your [00:10:52] kids have phones? I mean is this a daily [00:10:54] battle? [00:10:56] >> Is it a every other day battle? Yeah. [00:10:59] >> Every other [laughter] day battle. Yeah. [00:11:01] >> Especially now that like my boys are in [00:11:03] middle school. So like other kids have [00:11:05] them. [00:11:06] >> Yeah. [00:11:06] >> And I'm like here's why we don't and [00:11:08] won't. Um so no phones till 8th grade. [00:11:12] And again, a very simple phone that's [00:11:13] for communication. We have laptop and uh [00:11:16] cuz my my oldest needs a laptop for [00:11:18] school. The younger two not really yet. [00:11:20] They're handwriting assignments, but um [00:11:23] we have a contract for them that they [00:11:26] sign and it's there's one for their [00:11:27] laptop and there's one for other [00:11:28] devices. And we agree as a family on [00:11:30] these terms and they sign the contract [00:11:32] and we put it on the bulletin board in [00:11:33] their room by their desk. And um it's [00:11:36] you know, don't get on group text [00:11:39] threads. If people add you to a group [00:11:40] text thread, you have to get permission [00:11:42] from your parents [00:11:43] >> to uh be on that thread or to add people [00:11:46] to your contact list, things like that. [00:11:48] Um Thorn for Parents is a great resource [00:11:50] on this. They have templates of these [00:11:52] contracts. I mean, we just drafted our [00:11:54] own as like [00:11:55] >> Thorn for Parents. [00:11:56] >> Thorn for Parents. So Thorne um is doing [00:12:01] a lot with online and digital safety [00:12:04] [snorts] and they realize to your point [00:12:06] like it's overwhelming for parents to [00:12:08] know how to raise kids in this [00:12:10] environment and um so they're kind of [00:12:13] spoon feeding parents and if you go to [00:12:15] Thorn for parents they'll uh there's all [00:12:18] these links to a just educating parents [00:12:21] on like what they need to know and how [00:12:22] bad these apps and games can be and what [00:12:26] predators are doing, but then it also [00:12:29] will spit out a template for you to have [00:12:31] that conversation with your kid, how to [00:12:32] have the conversation, and then a [00:12:34] template contract if you want to go over [00:12:36] some terms with your kids around [00:12:38] boundaries with online devices. [00:12:40] >> Wow, that's good to know. I'm going to [00:12:42] check that out tonight. [00:12:43] >> Yeah. [00:12:43] >> Thorn for parents. [00:12:45] >> Well, thank you. That's uh [00:12:48] >> uh Carly Ryan Foundation, another great [00:12:50] resource. Um, [00:12:52] Carly Ryan was lured to uh her murder, [00:12:56] rape and murder in Australia. [00:12:59] And uh, her mom, Sonia, has been [00:13:01] fighting ever since to uh, change laws [00:13:04] in honor of Carly. And on the Carly Ryan [00:13:06] website, they have a resources section, [00:13:08] and they have one pagers on all the apps [00:13:10] from Roblox to Discord to YouTube. And [00:13:13] that's like a one pager for parents to [00:13:15] know how to adjust the settings on that [00:13:17] app or should you just not have the app? [00:13:19] Yes, that's really helpful, too. That's [00:13:20] really helpful. [00:13:21] >> Wow. I'll I'm checking that out as soon [00:13:24] as I get home, too, man. Thank you. [00:13:26] Thank you. Yeah. [00:13:27] >> You ready to get into the interview? [00:13:29] >> Yeah. [00:13:29] >> Let's go. [00:13:30] >> All right. Let's do it. No matter where [00:13:31] you're watching Sean Ryan show from, if [00:13:33] you get anything out of this, please [00:13:35] like, comment, subscribe, and most [00:13:38] importantly, share this everywhere you [00:13:41] possibly can. And if you're feeling [00:13:43] extra generous, please leave us a review [00:13:46] on Apple and Spotify podcasts.