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[00:00:00] We're about to play you an interview we [00:00:02] did with US Ambassador to Israel Mike [00:00:04] Huckabe two days ago in Israel. [00:00:08] In general, it's never worth talking [00:00:10] about the backstory behind an interview. [00:00:13] It's kind of not the point. It makes it [00:00:16] about the interviewer, not the person [00:00:18] being interviewed for one thing. For [00:00:19] another, it's not that interesting most [00:00:21] of the time. Um, and for another, it's [00:00:24] kind of off the record. you know, the [00:00:27] other person hasn't consented to you [00:00:30] telling the story. So, in general, we [00:00:31] don't do that. Who'd want to hear that? [00:00:33] Let the interview speak for itself. But [00:00:35] in this case, we want to tell you just a [00:00:38] few things about how this interview came [00:00:39] about because they are pretty [00:00:41] interesting, revealing, and now weirdly [00:00:45] relevant apparently. So, this interview [00:00:48] with Mike Huckabe came about a couple of [00:00:50] weeks ago um on Twitter. One of our [00:00:53] producers showed me, he said something [00:00:54] to the effect of, "You're talking to [00:00:56] Middle Eastern Christians, Tucker [00:00:58] Carlson. Maybe you should talk to me. [00:01:00] Why don't you come do an interview?" And [00:01:03] I paused for a minute. I thought in the [00:01:05] past about trying to interview Mike [00:01:06] Huckabe, whom I've known for over 30 [00:01:08] years and worked adjacent to at Fox and [00:01:12] I had mixed feelings about it. Um, [00:01:14] mostly because it's hard if you're me to [00:01:16] interview Mike Huckabe because of just [00:01:18] the personal affect. to my cuckabe is [00:01:20] jovial, comes off as friendly. He's a [00:01:22] grandfather [00:01:24] when annoyed. I can be nasty in [00:01:26] interviews. And so it's it takes a lot [00:01:29] of self-control to interview someone [00:01:31] like Mike Huckabe. Not not cuz I hate [00:01:32] him, but because it's hard to ask him [00:01:34] tough questions and not come off as a [00:01:37] jerk, which I often am. So, but I [00:01:40] thought in this case, yeah, I should [00:01:41] definitely do this. Um, for a bunch of [00:01:44] different reasons. mainly the United [00:01:46] States is moving toward a big war, a [00:01:49] real war with Iran, a regime change war. [00:01:52] Um, the biggest war we've had since the [00:01:55] invasion of Iraq in the spring of 2003. [00:01:58] And Israel is driving that. We are doing [00:02:00] this at the behest, at the demand of the [00:02:02] Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin [00:02:04] Netanyahu. So, it seems like now is the [00:02:06] time for more Americans to understand [00:02:08] the dynamic between the US and Israel [00:02:10] and to call attention to that. And for [00:02:12] another, Huckabee's behavior in the last [00:02:16] year in Jerusalem as the ambassador has [00:02:18] been very very striking. He famously had [00:02:22] a meeting with the most damaging spy in [00:02:26] American history. Um, and why did he do [00:02:30] that? He hadn't been asked uh by anybody [00:02:33] up until two days ago, why did you do [00:02:34] that? So, I I wanted to be able to ask [00:02:36] him that. Um, and so we accepted and [00:02:40] then began the usual negotiations about [00:02:42] when and where the interview would take [00:02:43] place. And we were constrained because [00:02:45] we weren't expecting this. We wanted to [00:02:46] do it quickly, but we had tons of [00:02:48] travel. So, we threw them a date, them [00:02:51] being the American embassy, uh, we can [00:02:53] do it on this date. And they were very [00:02:55] accommodating. And then the question [00:02:56] became, well, where do we do it? And [00:02:57] maybe a Christian holy site. We said, [00:03:00] we've got to get in and out really [00:03:01] quick. Got to be back to do a bunch of [00:03:03] other interviews, but we've got this [00:03:05] time frame. They said, "Well, why don't [00:03:07] you do it at the US embassy or maybe we [00:03:08] set that?" Great. US embassy. So, the US [00:03:10] embassy is about an hour 55 minutes from [00:03:15] the big airport in uh Israel, Bengarian. [00:03:18] So, we said, "Okay, what about [00:03:20] security?" Now, at this time, the [00:03:22] Israeli government, the prime minister [00:03:23] included, were attacking me in this [00:03:26] show. Netanyahu suggested I was a Nazi, [00:03:29] uh, for example. And so, we thought, you [00:03:31] know, how about security? Obviously, um [00:03:36] not because the Israeli government [00:03:37] necessarily would do something bad, but [00:03:38] because there are a lot of people in [00:03:39] Israel who think because they've been [00:03:40] told, you know, that I'm an anti-semite [00:03:43] or a Nazi or want to kill Jews, this [00:03:46] kind of crazy overstatement. Um all [00:03:48] untrue, obviously. Uh but it would be [00:03:51] good to have security. And I should say, [00:03:54] uh having done interviews on six out of [00:03:56] seven continents over 35 years, I'm not [00:03:58] very security conscious at all. never [00:04:01] really feel uncomfortable, but this [00:04:02] seemed like a a prudent thing to do. So, [00:04:05] we were told by the embassy spokesman, [00:04:06] "No, we're not going to provide [00:04:07] security." And so, we said, "Okay, I [00:04:10] guess we'll get private security, but [00:04:12] could we get someone from the embassy to [00:04:14] ride in the car with us from the airport [00:04:18] to the interview?" And we were told, [00:04:20] "No, could we get what they call a [00:04:22] control officer, just an American with [00:04:24] us, an offic, you know, in an official [00:04:26] capacity as a embassy employee with us?" [00:04:28] No. quote, "For legal reasons, we can't [00:04:30] do that." [00:04:33] So, I thought, "Well, that's very [00:04:35] strange." And then they said, "But [00:04:37] instead, we're turning you over to the [00:04:39] Ministry for Foreign Affairs, MFA, and [00:04:42] they're going to arrange everything in [00:04:44] Israel." Well, this was within 24 hours [00:04:47] of the Deputy Foreign Minister, Sharon [00:04:49] Haskell, releasing a video calling me an [00:04:51] anti-semite and an enemy of Israel. This [00:04:54] was the person who the embassy was [00:04:55] telling us was going to handle all of [00:04:57] our travel. [00:04:59] So it was at this point that I just [00:05:01] called I called the spokesman from for [00:05:03] the US embassy in Israel and I said okay [00:05:07] I'm an American citizen [00:05:10] responding to an invitation from the [00:05:12] American ambassador to Israel and by the [00:05:14] way I'm the son of US ambassador so I [00:05:15] have some sense not an expert obviously [00:05:17] but I have some sense of how this works [00:05:19] and I think that the US ambassador has [00:05:22] discretion to send somebody from his [00:05:24] office to the airport to accompany [00:05:25] someone in. I think that's right. And if [00:05:28] it's not right, tell me what law you're [00:05:30] talking about, what legal reason you're [00:05:32] talking about that would prevent that. [00:05:34] And now you're sending me over to a [00:05:36] government official who's been calling [00:05:37] me a Nazi. That's the person in charge [00:05:40] of getting us to the embassy. Like, what [00:05:42] is going on here? [00:05:44] And the embassy spokesman, who's totally [00:05:46] nice, said, "Well, this was the decision [00:05:48] of someone called David Brownstein. He's [00:05:50] the DCM, the number two guy in the [00:05:51] embassy." And I said, "Well, put him on [00:05:52] a text exchange. Like, what is going on [00:05:54] here?" [00:05:56] And so Branstein got on and didn't [00:06:00] answer the question, but basically said, [00:06:01] well, okay, let's just do the interview [00:06:02] at the airport in the diplomatic [00:06:04] reception area at the airport. Okay. I [00:06:08] said, um, we're going to be flying in [00:06:10] from Europe, uh, and we had to be in and [00:06:13] out really quickly, so at great expense, [00:06:15] we chartered a plane, which I never do [00:06:18] cuz I'm cheap. Um, but we did. And so [00:06:21] then I said to them, "Okay, I want to [00:06:23] send you uh the flight information, tail [00:06:26] number, flight number, route, um and I [00:06:30] want you to pass that on to the Israeli [00:06:31] military just so you know they don't [00:06:34] mistake us for an Iranian drone or [00:06:36] something." I mean, not to be paranoid, [00:06:37] but again, this is probably the most [00:06:39] violent country in the world, Israel. Is [00:06:42] there a country in the world where a [00:06:44] higher percentage of the population has [00:06:45] held a gun or shot someone? I mean, I [00:06:47] don't know the answer, but this is a [00:06:49] country uh famously waging a sevenfront [00:06:52] war with all of its neighbors, you know. [00:06:56] So, this is also the country that bombed [00:07:00] the USS Liberty knowing, we know this [00:07:02] from NSA intercepts, that it was an [00:07:03] American ship. So, don't, you know, just [00:07:06] send the military our flight information [00:07:10] and uh, you know, we can all just sort [00:07:12] of know it's on the record and we can [00:07:14] all calm down a little bit. No, they [00:07:17] said the US embassy said, "No, this is [00:07:20] your flight is not a a matter of concern [00:07:22] to the Israeli military." I said, "Okay, [00:07:25] now now you're making me uncomfortable. [00:07:27] Isn't the airspace of Israel the purview [00:07:30] of the Israeli military? Aren't they in [00:07:32] charge of maintaining the integrity of [00:07:34] their airspace? When you fly over the [00:07:36] country of Israel or any country, its [00:07:38] military keeps track of you because [00:07:40] that's their job. So, why wouldn't you [00:07:43] send our flight information to the [00:07:44] Israeli military? You're making me [00:07:46] nervous. [00:07:49] I sent this exchange. I took a a [00:07:51] screenshot of it and sent it to a bunch [00:07:52] of people, including in the US [00:07:53] government um because I'm not a paranoid [00:07:56] person and I'm not a jumpy person. I [00:07:59] said, "Is this weird behavior?" Yeah, [00:08:01] it's really weird behavior. All of them [00:08:03] said that. So, I got pretty aggressive [00:08:06] and just said, "Look, you got to do [00:08:07] this." Okay. and they to their credit [00:08:10] got back to us and said yes [00:08:13] we will we will do that but I just [00:08:14] thought that was completely bizarre and [00:08:16] menacing by the way now at the same time [00:08:19] and I think this is relevant certainly [00:08:22] it goes to motive I was attempting to [00:08:24] set up a meeting as I have been for the [00:08:26] past 3 months with the prime minister of [00:08:28] Israel Benjamin Netanyahu who I've dealt [00:08:30] with a lot in the past um and who [00:08:33] denounced me as a Nazi uh in public a [00:08:37] member of the woke reich [00:08:38] And why was I trying to do that? Not an [00:08:40] interview. I knew he wouldn't sit for an [00:08:41] interview. Um but I wanted just to meet [00:08:43] with him in person. One, to show that [00:08:45] I'm willing to go to Israel. I don't [00:08:47] hate Israel as a country. Um but two, [00:08:51] just to to say directly to him, this is [00:08:54] bad. This should be deescalated. This [00:08:57] kind of rhetoric doesn't help anybody. [00:08:59] Calling people calling me specifically a [00:09:01] Nazi and an anti-semite when you know [00:09:03] that I'm not. By the way, if I was, I [00:09:05] would just admit it. I've said many [00:09:06] times, I think anti-semitism is immoral. [00:09:08] It's against my religion, just as hating [00:09:11] any group on the basis of their [00:09:12] bloodline is immoral. So, the new year [00:09:15] is here, but that does not mean you've [00:09:16] got to overhaul your whole life despite [00:09:19] claims to the contrary. You don't have [00:09:20] to take drastic measures. Make a few [00:09:22] changes here and there, and you'll be a [00:09:24] lot better off. And you can start with [00:09:26] the snacks in your pantry. Now, products [00:09:28] from standard American chip brands are, [00:09:30] let's be honest, pretty repulsive, [00:09:33] filled with chemicals. They make you [00:09:34] feel heavy and bloated. 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Um, and so I really [00:10:23] pushed hard for this meeting and I [00:10:24] called a lot of people who know him and [00:10:26] who are in [00:10:28] regular contact with him. In fact, I [00:10:29] went to go see some of those people [00:10:31] directly. Please, can you help me [00:10:35] get a sit down for 5 minutes with [00:10:37] Benjamin Netanyahu and I probably called [00:10:40] or met with six, seven, eight, maybe [00:10:43] more people on this question. People in [00:10:46] official capacities, people in the [00:10:47] Israeli government. I know I know a [00:10:49] number of people in the Israeli [00:10:49] government, people in Israel, a friend [00:10:51] of mine in California who knows him. I [00:10:53] mean, I really really tried and I did so [00:10:56] for two reasons. Um, one, because there [00:10:59] was a threat to my family, uh, the [00:11:01] Israeli government and Netanyahu himself [00:11:03] tried to punish two members of my [00:11:05] family. I won't be more specific, but [00:11:07] actually punish two members of my family [00:11:09] because he, as he has said in public [00:11:11] many times, believes in blood guilt. [00:11:12] Amalecch. You know, when someone commits [00:11:15] a crime against you, you punish not just [00:11:17] him, but his family, his bloodline. [00:11:19] There's no idea that's less western than [00:11:22] that, more anti-Christian than that. [00:11:24] Christians reject that. Um Netanyahu [00:11:28] doesn't. That's why he's talking about [00:11:29] Amalcch. And he was going after my [00:11:32] family, literally. Uh so I felt very [00:11:34] threatened by that. But moreover, I [00:11:37] think it's bad for my country to have [00:11:40] people using that kind of language. [00:11:42] Round them up, bring them to the camps, [00:11:44] gas chambers, Nazis, anti-semitism. [00:11:47] It scares the heck out of people. It [00:11:48] makes people crazy and hysterical. And [00:11:50] certainly in my case, none of that is [00:11:52] true. I hate collective punishment. I [00:11:54] hate attacking people on the basis of [00:11:56] their bloodline. I hate anti-semitism [00:11:58] and anti-white racism and all of this, [00:12:01] any kind of racism, period. And I've [00:12:03] said that a lot. [00:12:05] So using that kind of language against [00:12:08] someone who is not fundamentally your [00:12:10] enemy who just in my case I want [00:12:12] Christians in areas controlled by Israel [00:12:15] to be treated with dignity to have [00:12:18] rights and I don't want the US [00:12:21] government involved in a war a regime [00:12:23] change war with Iran. Those are my [00:12:26] priorities and I've said them out loud. [00:12:28] I have no secret agenda. So to attack me [00:12:31] as a Nazi for saying that suggests a [00:12:34] total unwillingness [00:12:37] um to compromise. You know, anyone who [00:12:40] doesn't agree with us 100% must be [00:12:41] destroyed. His family must be attacked. [00:12:43] My family um and must be written off as [00:12:47] a Nazi. Well, when you do that, it makes [00:12:50] people hysterical. It increases the [00:12:52] temperature to a point that, you know, [00:12:54] someone's going to get hurt if you keep [00:12:56] talking that way. And it's just bad. [00:12:57] It's bad for the United States. it's bad [00:12:59] for the world. So, I wanted to deliver [00:13:01] that message. Um, I finally wind up [00:13:03] wound up talking to a guy called Yorum [00:13:04] Hazonei who is an Israeli who famously [00:13:07] organizes [00:13:09] uh the American conserv national [00:13:11] conservatism conferences. [00:13:14] And I said to him, look, you're having a [00:13:16] national conservatism conference in [00:13:18] Jerusalem [00:13:19] uh this summer. You asked me to speak at [00:13:22] the first, I think the first national [00:13:23] conserv conservatism conference in the [00:13:25] United States and I did. Obviously, I [00:13:27] believe in national conservatism, [00:13:29] America first. I think every nation [00:13:30] should put its own people first. That's [00:13:32] why you have governments. Um, and I [00:13:34] would like to speak at this one. And [00:13:35] moreover, I would like you to ask your [00:13:37] friend Benjamin Netanyahu to meet with [00:13:38] me. And we had this sort of long back [00:13:40] and forth. And it was, "No, you cannot [00:13:41] speak at the National Conservatism [00:13:43] Conference because you're an [00:13:44] anti-semite." "No, I'm not." I said, [00:13:46] "Yes, you are," he said. And I said, [00:13:48] "Well, I really would like to speak to [00:13:50] BB to kind of deescalate this." and he [00:13:52] said, uh, it would not be in his [00:13:56] political interest to meet with you. [00:13:58] That's almost verbatim what he said. Uh, [00:14:00] therefore, no. So then I realized, you [00:14:03] know, you're dealing with people who are [00:14:05] unreasonable, who are inflexible, who [00:14:07] are in fact fanatical. [00:14:10] Uh, and then add to that, of course, [00:14:11] that my tax dollars are paying them. You [00:14:14] know, it's all pretty distressing. So [00:14:17] that was the backdrop um behind our very [00:14:21] brief and highly intense trip to Israel. [00:14:23] So we show up on Wednesday, fly in from [00:14:26] Europe again at great expense. [00:14:29] Um and show up at the diplomatic [00:14:31] terminal of Bengurian airport where this [00:14:34] interview is going to take place which [00:14:36] is [00:14:38] bizarre in itself. Filthy building. The [00:14:41] windows are so dirty in the terminal you [00:14:43] can't see out them barely. There's like [00:14:45] exposed drywall. The whole thing is [00:14:47] depressing and grim. There's litter [00:14:49] outside. Like what is this? This is the [00:14:51] diplomatic terminal in Israel. Um I [00:14:54] thought that was very strange having [00:14:55] been in a lot of diplomatic terminals. [00:14:56] I've never seen a rattier one. We go in [00:14:59] and Huckabe's there and of course he's [00:15:01] totally friendly as he always is. um [00:15:04] very very friendly guy and uh cheerful [00:15:06] and we sort of chat and the whole place [00:15:09] is filled with these guys in t-shirts, [00:15:11] thuggish looking guys in t-shirts who [00:15:13] are some kind of security. [00:15:15] So we do the interview, you're about to [00:15:17] watch it. Um it's very long at 2 and a [00:15:19] half hoursish and I try my hardest to be [00:15:23] friendly. Uh I think I kind of [00:15:27] succeeded. You can judge for yourself. [00:15:29] Um, but you I really got the sense and [00:15:31] again you can decide as you watch it [00:15:34] that uh Huckabe was not well able to [00:15:38] answer any of the questions um but also [00:15:40] not really in charge. You really got the [00:15:42] feeling of a guy sort of trying his best [00:15:45] to to repeat the talking points but very [00:15:48] constrained like unable to say certain [00:15:50] things not because those things might [00:15:54] harm the interest of the US government. [00:15:55] He was happy to attack, for example, the [00:15:58] US military and say they're more brutal [00:15:59] than the Israeli military. Okay. Um but [00:16:03] unwilling to say certain things because [00:16:04] they might reflect poorly on the Israeli [00:16:06] government. And you sort of thinking [00:16:09] about this for a second. You're like, [00:16:10] "Wait, you're the US ambassador. You're [00:16:12] our representative to a foreign country. [00:16:15] Why is your red line criticism of that [00:16:17] country? Shouldn't you be representing [00:16:19] us?" And it was very obvious he was [00:16:22] representing the Israelis. Obvious. And [00:16:24] again, you can judge for yourself. But [00:16:26] anyway, so we do this interview. It was [00:16:28] cordial. [00:16:29] And at the end, uh, we're set to fly [00:16:33] out. We have a time. We have to get out. [00:16:35] And the plane is sitting right outside. [00:16:37] And we're ready to go. And for some [00:16:39] reason, the Israelis still have our [00:16:41] passports. There are five of us um [00:16:45] there. And four of us are flying out on [00:16:47] this plane. One's flying out commercial [00:16:49] with our gear. So my business partner [00:16:51] and I were standing there. We we've [00:16:53] never left the airport, never went [00:16:54] anywhere. But our two producers have [00:16:57] spent the night in the night before in [00:16:58] Tel Aviv, and they're called into rooms [00:17:02] and given the third degree. [00:17:06] Now, keep in mind, they're about to get [00:17:07] on a plane and leave. In fact, we're [00:17:09] late. We have to get out of there. We [00:17:11] have a slot to get out. And security, [00:17:15] whoever this is, won't won't let them [00:17:17] go. So, I don't really know what's going [00:17:18] on at this point. I'm like, "Where are [00:17:19] our guys? We got to get out of here." [00:17:20] So, one of them comes out and he says, [00:17:22] "That was the weirdest experience of my [00:17:23] life. They asked me questions about the [00:17:26] interview. Who did you speak to?" Keep [00:17:28] in mind, this was like 8 ft from where [00:17:30] we did the interview. Well, the US [00:17:32] ambassador Mike Huckabe, what did you [00:17:34] talk about? Why did you ask those [00:17:36] questions? Was it a hostile interview? [00:17:38] Of course, everything in the diplomatic [00:17:40] terminal is taped. Everything in Israel [00:17:41] is taped. It's a police state. It's a [00:17:43] surveillance state. Obviously, you go to [00:17:45] Israel, they put software on your phone. [00:17:48] Everybody knows this, okay? They're [00:17:50] constantly spying on you more than [00:17:52] probably any other country. And so they [00:17:54] know the answers to these questions, but [00:17:56] they're asking my producer like, "Where [00:17:59] do you work? How many people work there? [00:18:02] Do you go to the office? Where is the [00:18:04] office? What are their names?" They're [00:18:06] doing like an intel op [00:18:09] and humiliation exercise on my producer. [00:18:12] This isn't security. We're leaving right [00:18:16] now. And they're holding his passport. [00:18:19] The interrogator is holding the passport [00:18:21] in his hand as he's asking these [00:18:22] questions. So he's telling me this and [00:18:25] I'm I said, "This is the most outrageous [00:18:26] thing I've ever heard. Puckabe's gone by [00:18:27] this point. [00:18:29] You're an American citizen who's just [00:18:31] had a conversation with the US [00:18:32] ambassador and some thug is demanding [00:18:36] details of that conversation [00:18:38] and I hope you didn't answer." And he's [00:18:40] like, "No, I I didn't. I don't know what [00:18:42] to say." Meanwhile, our last guy, our [00:18:45] the youngest man who was traveling with [00:18:47] us, our last producer is still in a room [00:18:49] being questioned. So, I pull over one of [00:18:51] the guys and said, "I I we got to get [00:18:53] out of here." So, I don't know what this [00:18:55] is about. It's outrageous. [00:18:58] And [00:18:59] you know, there's nothing I can do about [00:19:00] this point, but we got to go. And this [00:19:03] woman comes up to me and says, "Look, [00:19:04] let's just go. We're going to bring you [00:19:06] to the plane and he'll come later." [00:19:08] I said, "No, it's my producer. He's [00:19:11] being interrogated. ask totally [00:19:13] over-the-top, fully inappropriate [00:19:15] questions that have nothing to do with [00:19:17] security at all. You know, pull up your [00:19:20] website, show us your text exchanges [00:19:22] with other people on your staff, what [00:19:24] what are your politics like? And again, [00:19:26] what did you say to the US ambassador [00:19:28] and what did he say back to you? Those [00:19:29] are not relevant questions if you're [00:19:32] trying to keep your country secure. [00:19:34] Those are intel questions [00:19:36] and they're over the top. And I said, I [00:19:39] want this guy out now. Let's go. You [00:19:41] know, we got to go. Oh, and they said, [00:19:42] "No, no, just leave him here. We'll [00:19:43] bring him to the plane later." [00:19:46] Twice they told me that. Just leave your [00:19:48] guy behind. No, I don't think so. So, I [00:19:51] was enraged by this. Um, [00:19:54] get on the plane, we get a text from a [00:19:57] reporter who somehow knew that this had [00:19:58] happened. I have no idea how. I had no [00:20:01] interest in publicizing it, actually. [00:20:03] Um, [00:20:05] there was, you know, a a long trail that [00:20:08] showed that the US embassy had been [00:20:11] coordinating against us in a in a public [00:20:14] relations battle before we even got [00:20:15] there. You know, they were leaking that [00:20:17] we we demanded to do it at the airport [00:20:19] because we were afraid to go into [00:20:21] Israel. We're cowards. [00:20:24] Okay. We're cowards, [00:20:27] right? Um, [00:20:29] and so I just said to the reporter by [00:20:31] text, you know, they pulled my guys into [00:20:34] a room interrogating them. This is [00:20:36] outrageous, etc., etc., etc. The [00:20:38] interesting thing is I never heard from [00:20:41] Huckabe or anybody to this moment from [00:20:44] the US embassy about [00:20:46] what security did to my producers. [00:20:50] They didn't ask us and instead Huckabe [00:20:52] went out and called me a liar. [00:20:56] So, it raises again the question, who [00:21:00] exactly is Huckabe working for? We're [00:21:05] American citizens in a foreign country. [00:21:07] He's our ambassador. He represents our [00:21:09] country. We pay his salary, but he's [00:21:11] taking the side of the foreign [00:21:13] government without even calling to say, [00:21:15] "Hey, what happened to you at the [00:21:17] airport? Did you get hassled? Did your [00:21:18] guys get hassled?" No. He just [00:21:21] immediately repeats their lies. [00:21:25] without even consulting us. So like what [00:21:28] are we looking at here? [00:21:30] We're looking at the reality [00:21:32] which is if you're an American in [00:21:34] Israel, you can be certain that your [00:21:37] government will take the side of the [00:21:39] Israeli government and not your side. [00:21:42] And really, is that so different from [00:21:44] the experience of Americans in the [00:21:46] United States? Can you be sure that your [00:21:49] government will take your side over the [00:21:51] Israeli government? No, of course not. [00:21:53] will always take the Israeli [00:21:54] government's side over yours. [00:21:57] And that's the core problem. [00:22:00] Even if if you support a war with Iran, [00:22:03] I think we really the most pressing [00:22:05] issue for Americans is that we kill the [00:22:07] Ayatollah or whatever, [00:22:10] you still have a fair expectation that [00:22:12] your government because it is yours, [00:22:15] you pay for it. It exists to serve you [00:22:17] and for no other reason. and you have an [00:22:18] expectation that your government will [00:22:20] take your side against a foreign [00:22:22] government. [00:22:24] But the daily lived reality, the obvious [00:22:27] truth visible to every single American [00:22:29] is that's the opposite [00:22:32] of reality. In fact, if you criticize [00:22:35] Israel in your country, your government [00:22:38] will work to censor you. If there's a [00:22:41] standoff between you and BB, you know [00:22:43] whose side your government's going to [00:22:44] take? BB's side. [00:22:47] That is not sustainable. [00:22:50] That is too humiliating. It's too [00:22:53] clearly an inversion of the natural [00:22:56] order. Your government exists for you, [00:22:58] not for a foreign government. [00:23:01] But that's not how we live in this [00:23:05] country or in Israel. So that's what we [00:23:07] learned. And one last thing, [00:23:10] the Israelis apparently [00:23:14] went may probably with the help of Mike [00:23:16] Huckabe went to uh the surveillance tape [00:23:20] inside the diplomatic terminal and [00:23:22] pulled some clip and they're of course [00:23:24] getting all their little bots online to [00:23:26] promote it of me with my arm around [00:23:28] somebody to show that actually I'm lying [00:23:32] about what happened. [00:23:35] That person was our driver who drove us [00:23:37] from the plane to the terminal, a short [00:23:40] drive. Very nice guy, good guy, Israeli [00:23:42] guy. And um right when we arrived and he [00:23:45] said, "Could I get a picture?" Of [00:23:47] course. He's a nice man. So I just put [00:23:49] my arm around him, took a picture. [00:23:51] That's what that is. That was before the [00:23:53] interview. It was before uh our [00:23:56] producers were hassled by the thugs um [00:23:58] and asked ridiculous questions. It was [00:24:00] before any of this happened. So that's [00:24:03] just uh another installment of the [00:24:04] propaganda war. I thought we'd give you [00:24:05] the backstory on that. People seem to be [00:24:08] more inflamed, not just emotionally, but [00:24:10] physically, and more tired than ever. [00:24:12] And food is part of the reason. Bad food [00:24:16] tastes good, but not good for you. For [00:24:17] most of human history, people ate actual [00:24:19] food, stuff that your body recognizes, [00:24:22] but now you eat a ton of chemicals. [00:24:24] Paleo Valley is the solution to this. [00:24:26] Paleo Valley's bone broth protein is [00:24:29] made from, let's see, 100% grass-fed and [00:24:32] finished beef bones. That's it. No [00:24:33] fillers, no additives, no weird [00:24:35] industrial byproducts. It's actual food [00:24:38] turned into something you can consume [00:24:40] every day. Most people use it the way we [00:24:42] do. 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[00:25:25] That's paleo valley.com code tucker for [00:25:28] 20% off. So, with that, here is our [00:25:31] interview with Ambassador Mike Huckabe. [00:25:35] I hope it's informative. Ambassador, [00:25:38] thank you very much for having us, for [00:25:40] inviting me. I was grateful to be [00:25:42] invited. Thank you. [00:25:43] >> I I was grateful cuz I don't like all [00:25:45] the [00:25:47] the name calling. I've engaged in some [00:25:48] of it. I want to apologize for that. I [00:25:50] don't but I in general, I don't think [00:25:52] people should be going immediately to [00:25:54] motive calling each other Nazis or [00:25:56] anti-semmites. I said I hate the [00:25:58] Christian Zionists. I lost control of [00:26:00] myself. Of course, I don't. I've [00:26:01] apologized for that. I have problems [00:26:03] with my anger. And so, I just want to [00:26:05] apologize to you since you are a [00:26:06] Christian Zionist. [00:26:07] >> You and I have known each other for over [00:26:09] 30 years. [00:26:09] >> Over 30 years. That is totally true. [00:26:11] >> Back when you were in Little Rock. So, [00:26:13] >> yes, the newspaper. [00:26:15] >> It's why I wanted us to have a [00:26:16] conversation, talk to each other and not [00:26:18] about each other. And I appreciate very [00:26:20] much you're coming here to [00:26:22] >> of course. And I'm only staying a couple [00:26:23] hours unfortunately because I kind of [00:26:26] shoehorned this in. But I hope that I'll [00:26:28] be back soon and I hope that I can come [00:26:30] back soon cuz I want to I actually like [00:26:33] despite what you may hear, I actually [00:26:34] like the country. I've been here a lot [00:26:36] and there are a lot of things I love [00:26:37] about it and um and I want to talk to [00:26:40] people in it for like a week. [00:26:42] >> Good. [00:26:42] >> And get a better sense of it. [00:26:44] >> Um so I want to ask you, everyone I've [00:26:46] talked to in in preparation for this has [00:26:49] said the same thing. Jonathan Pard like [00:26:52] can exp I'm just gonna show the the name [00:26:54] to you and have you explain. [00:26:56] >> No, I'm glad you asked. You know, [00:26:57] interestingly, there's been a lot of [00:26:59] things about it. You're the first person [00:27:01] who has asked me about it, which I find [00:27:04] amazing. So, I'm glad you did. Really? [00:27:06] Yeah. The very first. Well, it's better [00:27:07] to like hear it. [00:27:09] >> Sure. [00:27:09] >> I met Jonathan Pard two times. Once I [00:27:12] was making a speech in Jerusalem. This [00:27:13] has been a few years ago. His wife was [00:27:15] still alive at the time. And he was [00:27:18] there. and someone introduced me to him [00:27:21] and his wife. I said hello to them. That [00:27:24] was it. Hi, nice to meet Esther, his [00:27:27] wife. And that was it. I went and made [00:27:29] my speech and I left. Um later his wife [00:27:32] passed away uh here in Israel. And I [00:27:36] sent him a note and just said, "I'm [00:27:38] sorry to hear about your wife." I [00:27:39] remember meeting her at the hotel and uh [00:27:41] sorry to hear it. He then asked, "Could [00:27:44] he come and see me?" He wanted to come [00:27:46] and thank me for being kind to him. Um, [00:27:50] he came to the embassy. I think we met [00:27:52] for maybe 30 minutes. We had a nice, [00:27:54] pleasant visit. [00:27:56] >> The funny thing was the New York Times [00:27:58] reported that it was a secret meeting. [00:28:01] Tucker, if you've ever been to the US [00:28:03] Embassy, you would know there's no such [00:28:04] thing as a secret meeting at the US [00:28:06] Embassy. There are cameras everywhere. [00:28:08] You walk through Marines, you walk [00:28:09] through security, you walk through the [00:28:11] front office, and there's a dozen or [00:28:12] more people that are going to check you [00:28:15] out when you come. And before you get [00:28:17] there, you're going to have to give us [00:28:18] your passport information. You're going [00:28:19] to have to be vetted and screened and [00:28:21] all of this stuff. So, the idea that it [00:28:23] was secret was ludicrous. The whole idea [00:28:25] is, look, Jonathan Pard did something [00:28:27] that was terribly wrong. Um, he sold [00:28:31] secrets. He shouldn't have done it. He [00:28:34] was sentenced to 30 years in prison and [00:28:37] spent 30 actually was I think yeah I [00:28:39] think he was sentenced to maybe more [00:28:41] than 30 years but he spent 30 years in [00:28:43] prison. Most people convicted of [00:28:45] something similar uh which was one count [00:28:48] I believe would have spent two to four [00:28:50] but he spent 30. I don't have a problem [00:28:52] with him spending 30 because I think [00:28:54] what he did was despicable. I'm not [00:28:55] defending anything about what he did, [00:28:59] but even people like the former director [00:29:01] of the CIA, [00:29:03] um, a number of other senators on the [00:29:06] Senate Foreign Relations of the Senate [00:29:07] Intel Committee said that he should be [00:29:11] allowed to leave and move to Israel if [00:29:13] he wanted to. So, it to me was not as [00:29:17] big a deal that I had this basically [00:29:20] courtesy meeting. He wanted to thank me [00:29:22] for being nice to him when his wife [00:29:24] died. That's pretty much the [00:29:26] >> you advocated for his release when you [00:29:27] ran for I remember it in 2011 [00:29:30] long before he had served 30 years. [00:29:33] >> And I agree with you that there are a [00:29:35] lot of people languishing in prison, you [00:29:37] know, in our country and in this [00:29:38] country, many countries, um, you know, [00:29:40] for longer periods than they deserve. [00:29:42] And I think it's a Christian impulse to [00:29:44] >> to want to see them free. But this was [00:29:47] the greatest traitor in modern American [00:29:50] history who sold our battle plans sold [00:29:52] our battle plans against the Soviet [00:29:54] Union, our main enemy in the Cold War to [00:29:57] the Israeli government, which according [00:29:59] to our Reagan CIA director, Bill Casey, [00:30:02] then gave them to the Soviet Union. So [00:30:05] this was the most profound betrayal of [00:30:08] the United States in my lifetime. Why [00:30:11] advocate for that guy's release before [00:30:13] he serves his full sentence? [00:30:16] If that were the case in 2011, it would [00:30:19] have been because I had a number of [00:30:21] friends that uh suggested that he had [00:30:23] more than served time and he didn't want [00:30:25] to live in the US anymore. He wanted to [00:30:27] live in Israel and uh but my association [00:30:30] with him again I had never met him until [00:30:32] I met him in Jerusalem at a hotel. That [00:30:35] was the first time I had ever [00:30:36] encountered him. [00:30:37] >> I'm friends with a million bad people or [00:30:40] I've talked to a million bad people. [00:30:41] >> I'm sitting here with you. [00:30:43] >> I mean, come on. I mean, Jesus hate with [00:30:45] tax collectors. So I trust me I am do [00:30:48] not judge people who are friends or know [00:30:51] or enjoy the company of immoral people [00:30:53] because it's not an endorsement of their [00:30:55] immoral behavior. [00:30:57] Pard is different I think once you [00:31:00] become US ambassador the representative [00:31:02] of the president of the United States in [00:31:04] the United States of America in a [00:31:06] foreign country and then you invite not [00:31:09] only the most damaging betrayer in our [00:31:12] lifetimes but also a guy who continues [00:31:14] to advocate for betrayal. So he gave an [00:31:17] interview, as I know you know, in 2021 [00:31:19] to Israeli media in which he said, "I [00:31:21] would encourage Jewish Americans with [00:31:24] security clearances to spy for MSAD [00:31:27] against their own country, the United [00:31:29] States, because," and I'm pretty much [00:31:30] quoting him, "All Jews should have dual [00:31:32] loyalty." [00:31:33] >> Mhm. [00:31:34] >> That's a I mean, that's not repentance. [00:31:37] That's not someone who feels bad about [00:31:38] what he did. That's someone who's [00:31:39] encouraging American Jews to betray [00:31:42] their country. That's pretty heavy, [00:31:44] don't you think? Oh, I do and I disagree [00:31:47] with that wholeheartedly. I I think [00:31:49] let's remember it was President Trump [00:31:50] who probably facilitated his uh [00:31:53] departure and uh I'm certainly [00:31:57] supportive of President Trump. I think [00:31:58] you are. [00:31:59] >> And Per's not. He called him a madman [00:32:01] after your meeting. [00:32:02] >> That's why I say Per is is not for me [00:32:05] the real issue. It was the fact that he [00:32:08] did something that was despicable. I'm [00:32:10] not denying that. Of course he did. And [00:32:13] he paid dearly for it. 30 years in [00:32:15] prison and he should have that. That's [00:32:16] what he should have done. There's no no [00:32:18] question about that. [00:32:19] >> But why meet with him in the US embassy? [00:32:20] Your colleagues said they were shocked. [00:32:22] They said [00:32:23] >> who were the colleagues that said they [00:32:24] were shocked. [00:32:25] >> Quoted on background in the New York [00:32:26] Times. I think the meeting was in [00:32:28] August. [00:32:30] >> I this could all be fake. That's why I'm [00:32:31] asking you. [00:32:32] >> Well, the same New York Times said it [00:32:34] was a secret meeting. And I'm telling [00:32:36] you there's no such thing as a secret [00:32:37] meeting in the US embassy. Do you see [00:32:39] why the US ambassador hosting a [00:32:41] convicted betrayer of his own country [00:32:43] who's encouraging Americans to continue [00:32:45] to betray their country would seem [00:32:47] shocking? [00:32:48] >> Well, I would say that it wasn't that I [00:32:51] you make it sound like I'm hosting a [00:32:53] meeting. I simply met with him. I meet [00:32:55] with people all the time. Some of [00:32:57] >> You just walk in without a [00:32:58] >> No, they have to have an appointment. Of [00:32:59] course they do. [00:33:00] >> Oh, so it is hosting him then, I think. [00:33:02] Well, I don't know if it was hosting, [00:33:03] but it was certainly he was able to come [00:33:06] to the US embassy to have a meeting at [00:33:08] his request. I did, and frankly, I don't [00:33:11] regret it. I I met with a lot of people [00:33:14] over the course of the time I've been [00:33:15] here, and we'll meet with a lot more. [00:33:17] Um, [00:33:19] that's it. So, if you spend the evening [00:33:22] at my house, you are guaranteed to find [00:33:24] yourself in a conversation about the [00:33:26] Hallow app. We talked about it this [00:33:28] morning. It is the best prayer app ever. [00:33:32] This Lent, Hallow's Pray 40 Challenge [00:33:35] invites users to step out of the noise [00:33:36] of everyday life and dive into something [00:33:38] much deeper. The parable of the prodigal [00:33:42] son. It's a story about a man who leaves [00:33:44] home, wastes everything, hits rock [00:33:46] bottom, and then realizes something [00:33:48] transformative. He can go back. And when [00:33:51] he does go back, he's not punished. He's [00:33:53] welcomed. He's celebrated. That story [00:33:56] tells the truth that no matter how far [00:33:58] you have gone, you can still turn [00:34:00] around. You're responsible for your next [00:34:02] choice. Even if you behaved in deeply [00:34:04] unholy ways, and we all have, mercy [00:34:08] still awaits you. This Easter, Hallow's [00:34:12] Pray 40 challenge is the best way to [00:34:13] stay in touch with the word of God, the [00:34:15] good word. The challenge begins [00:34:17] Wednesday, February 18th, and runs [00:34:20] through Easter. Get three months free at [00:34:22] hallow.com/tucker. [00:34:24] It's the best. There have been um [00:34:27] Americans in prison in Israel. There [00:34:29] have also been and there continue to be [00:34:32] dozens and dozens and dozens of sex [00:34:34] offenders, accused sex offenders from [00:34:36] the United States who fled to Israel, [00:34:38] including one recently, an Israeli [00:34:40] government official who was caught [00:34:42] trying to molest a 15-year-old girl and [00:34:46] fled to Israel and is not going back to [00:34:48] the United States to stand charges for [00:34:50] attempted molestation of a child. Have [00:34:52] you advocated for the Israeli government [00:34:55] to return him to the United States? [00:34:56] >> I'm not familiar with that case. It has [00:34:58] not come to us at the embassy. So, I'm [00:35:01] not aware. Is this the person in Nevada? [00:35:03] >> That is correct. [00:35:04] >> Okay. County, I would imagine. So, [00:35:06] >> yeah, I heard about it, but I heard [00:35:07] about it through open source media. It [00:35:09] was never something that was presented [00:35:10] to us, but I would have no problem with [00:35:13] uh him being extradited back to the US. [00:35:16] You're the president's and our country's [00:35:18] representative in the state of Israel. [00:35:19] So, I think it would fall to you to [00:35:21] advocate with your friend, the prime [00:35:22] minister, to say, "Wait a second. We [00:35:24] have a very close relationship. [00:35:26] We're obviously the single largest [00:35:28] source of outside funding for this [00:35:30] country. [00:35:32] How can you take an accused child [00:35:34] molester and shield him from American [00:35:36] justice? Send him back to the United [00:35:38] States?" Have you ever had that [00:35:39] conversation? [00:35:40] >> No. Because the prime minister would not [00:35:42] be the proper person. [00:35:43] >> That may be right. pardon my ignorance [00:35:45] but [00:35:45] >> that would deal with an extradition. It [00:35:48] would go through their uh court system [00:35:50] and so the prime minister is separate [00:35:52] very similar to what we have in the US [00:35:53] where there is a separation of powers. [00:35:55] So it would go through uh something [00:35:57] other than the prime minister. [00:35:59] >> Have you advocated to the courts to [00:36:01] judges to anybody in the Israeli justice [00:36:04] system? [00:36:04] >> There has never been a request for me to [00:36:06] engage in that. I I would be happy to do [00:36:08] it if if the White House sent a message [00:36:11] to me. I do work for the president. I [00:36:13] serve it as pleasure. If anyone at the [00:36:16] White House were to say to me, would you [00:36:18] please go and make a case for it? But [00:36:20] probably if that were to happen, it [00:36:22] wouldn't come through the embassy as [00:36:24] much as it would likely come from the [00:36:25] Department of Justice at the US in DC. [00:36:28] They would make the request. They might [00:36:30] involve us, but they very likely would [00:36:32] not. Does it seem strange to you that [00:36:35] people accused of child molestation in [00:36:38] the United States are allowed to [00:36:42] have refuge in our within the borders of [00:36:44] our closest ally? How? That doesn't make [00:36:47] sense to me. [00:36:48] >> Well, I would say that [00:36:50] >> if you've molested an American child, [00:36:52] shouldn't you be required to [00:36:53] >> It's an allegation. Let's be clear. One [00:36:55] of the things about our system of jurist [00:36:57] prudence, you're innocent until you're [00:36:58] proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. [00:37:00] So if the charges are there, should he [00:37:03] be extradited? I would say so. [00:37:05] >> The charges are there. [00:37:06] >> Yeah. Okay. So they should be, but [00:37:08] that's a Justice Department decision and [00:37:10] they're the ones who should be pursuing [00:37:12] it. To my knowledge, they haven't. They [00:37:14] certainly haven't engaged the US embassy [00:37:15] over. [00:37:15] >> Why would the Israeli government harbor [00:37:18] fugitives from justice in the United [00:37:20] States? [00:37:21] >> I'm not sure that [00:37:22] >> there dozens and dozens and dozens. In [00:37:24] fact, there's an Israeli group that [00:37:26] keeps track of them that is dedicated [00:37:29] Jewish Israeli group dedicated to [00:37:31] combating the molestation of children [00:37:32] and keeps a long list and any you can [00:37:34] look it up and I would [00:37:35] >> I hope you're not saying that you think [00:37:36] the Israelis support the molestation of [00:37:39] children. [00:37:40] >> Obviously, I'm not saying that. I'm [00:37:41] saying that the Israeli government [00:37:42] allows shields [00:37:45] >> Yeah. [00:37:45] >> accused child from justice in [00:37:47] >> I'm not sure I could say that that's [00:37:50] something that is provable. I don't [00:37:51] know. But I am not aware that the [00:37:53] Israeli government is shielding people. [00:37:55] >> You obviously want to sleep well and [00:37:57] fashionably Brooklyn bedding can help. [00:37:59] Here at TCN, we take sleep time [00:38:01] seriously. Try to get 8 hours. And a lot [00:38:03] of the people here cannot help rave [00:38:06] about their Brooklyn bedding mattress. [00:38:09] The first thing you'll notice about your [00:38:10] mattress is how stable they feel. That's [00:38:12] because they're built to last for [00:38:14] decades, not just years. It's American [00:38:16] durability. By the way, we when we bring [00:38:20] in a new advertiser, we have them send [00:38:21] stuff to the whole staff and people test [00:38:22] it and they love this. 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[00:39:06] Promo code Tucker. [00:39:08] >> Well, they are. And I'll give you a And [00:39:10] I just want to make sure that I [00:39:11] pronounce this this man's name [00:39:13] correctly. It's Tom, I believe, [00:39:16] Alexanderich. [00:39:17] Um, I think that's right. And I've [00:39:19] written it down, but of course my [00:39:20] handwriting is so terrible I can't uh [00:39:22] read it. But yes, he is an Israeli, I [00:39:27] believe, cyber security official who was [00:39:30] at a conference in Las Vegas last year [00:39:33] and was caught up in a sting [00:39:36] >> uh designed to catch people soliciting [00:39:38] sex from children. He was one of a [00:39:40] number of people arrested for this. He [00:39:42] was arraigned and charged and then 2 [00:39:44] days later he fled to Israel and did his [00:39:47] first hearing by Zoom. He was allowed [00:39:49] for some reason to leave for a foreign [00:39:51] country having already been charged for [00:39:53] a attempted molestation of a child and [00:39:56] he remains here now and the is and there [00:39:59] have been many news stories about this [00:40:00] and I just wonder if you would ask the [00:40:03] Israeli government to send to put him on [00:40:06] a plane and send him back to face [00:40:08] justice for attempting to molest an [00:40:10] American child. It it doesn't seem [00:40:12] complicated. [00:40:13] >> No, I wouldn't mind doing that, but I [00:40:15] want to find out if the Justice [00:40:16] Department in the US has already sought [00:40:18] to extradite him. Is there anything in [00:40:20] process? I don't know. [00:40:21] >> Why wouldn't they seek to extradite? [00:40:23] >> I have no idea. That's a question for [00:40:24] the Justice Department. [00:40:26] >> I have many questions for the Justice [00:40:27] Department. Like, why are millions of [00:40:29] Epstein files still classified? Why do [00:40:32] you think that is? [00:40:33] >> I have no idea. I haven't kept up with [00:40:35] that. I've never met the man. I don't [00:40:37] know him. [00:40:37] >> You haven't kept up with the Epstein [00:40:39] disclosure? [00:40:39] >> I mean, only from a distance. I'm 6,000 [00:40:41] m away from DC these days. [00:40:42] >> You attacked me personally for [00:40:45] suggesting that Jeffrey Epstein had ties [00:40:47] to Msad. I'm not saying he'd worked for [00:40:49] Assad. I don't think we know that, but [00:40:52] there's no question that he had [00:40:53] extensive contact with CIA. [00:40:54] >> I think you said it a turning point [00:40:57] event. Everybody knows Jeffrey Epstein. [00:40:59] >> I said everyone thinks and it turns out [00:41:01] everyone was right that he did have [00:41:03] >> I'm not sure everyone was right or [00:41:04] everyone thinks. [00:41:05] >> Okay, but you said that I was lying and [00:41:08] I don't want to make this about me. I [00:41:09] don't think I said you were lying, [00:41:10] Tucker. I don't recall. [00:41:11] >> I'm just saying, why don't we release [00:41:14] all the files and then we don't need to [00:41:16] guess. [00:41:17] >> I got no problem with that. Go ahead. [00:41:19] Well, because you weighed in on it and [00:41:21] said that this was not true when of [00:41:23] course [00:41:23] >> I said there was no evidence. [00:41:25] >> Well, there's quite a bit of evidence, [00:41:27] but you haven't apparently bothered to [00:41:29] read any of the files. Is that what [00:41:30] you're saying? [00:41:31] >> I have not read the Epstein files. [00:41:35] Apparently, you have. Well, they're on [00:41:37] the internet, [00:41:37] >> but when you say that there's that [00:41:39] everybody knows that Jeffrey Epstein was [00:41:41] a msadist, [00:41:42] >> that everyone believes that. [00:41:43] >> I don't think everybody does. I don't [00:41:45] know. [00:41:45] >> Well, everyone knows that he had contact [00:41:47] with And by the way, not just Israeli [00:41:51] intelligence, American intelligence, [00:41:53] which is more much more distressing for [00:41:54] me. I'm not Israeli. I'm American. I [00:41:56] don't want my government having any [00:41:57] contact with someone like Jeffrey Epste. [00:41:59] So, the shame [00:42:00] >> is on the United States as far as I'm [00:42:02] concerned. Just to be totally clear [00:42:03] about that. Everyone's very sensitive [00:42:05] about the Israel connection, not at all [00:42:07] sensitive about the US connection, which [00:42:08] I find very revealing. We should care [00:42:10] about what our government does first, I [00:42:12] think. But since you weighed in on it [00:42:15] and said there's no evidence, I'm [00:42:18] surprised that since that evidence has [00:42:20] been open to the public for a month, [00:42:23] since you've already weighed in publicly [00:42:24] on this question, that you've made no [00:42:27] effort to evaluate that evidence. Why is [00:42:30] that? I just told you I was certainly [00:42:33] not aware that there were some specific [00:42:35] uh allegations. I knew about the former [00:42:37] prime minister. Um but I don't know him. [00:42:41] Not sure I ever met him in my many [00:42:43] times. You know, I've been to Israel [00:42:44] over a hundred times since 1973. The [00:42:46] first time I came here was 1973, July. [00:42:50] And uh that's almost 53 years of coming [00:42:53] and going to this country. [00:42:55] >> So I know the country well. I know a lot [00:42:56] of people here, but I don't know [00:42:58] everything and I don't know everybody. [00:43:01] But I do a lot of people. [00:43:02] >> Of course. No. And I and I can see your [00:43:04] love for it and I I think that's great. [00:43:07] I But I'm talking about the US [00:43:08] government and its responsibility to, [00:43:11] you know, there's a lot of complaint [00:43:12] about conspiracy theories and everyone, [00:43:14] you know, he's a hater. Everyone's [00:43:17] assigning motive, [00:43:18] >> but there's a way to end these [00:43:20] conversations very quickly with facts. [00:43:23] And I'm highly confused [00:43:26] by [00:43:27] >> Have you brought this up to the [00:43:28] president? [00:43:29] Uh, no. I don't I don't work for them. [00:43:32] I've said this many times. [00:43:32] >> I know you don't work for them, but you [00:43:34] you go to the White House and you see [00:43:36] people there. You and JD Vance are very [00:43:38] good friends. So, have you brought this [00:43:39] up to them? Because [00:43:40] >> I have brought this up in public many. [00:43:42] It's [00:43:42] >> not on my portfolio, but apparently it's [00:43:44] highly very strongly on your mind and [00:43:47] I'm a significant concern for me. [00:43:50] >> Should be for everybody. But if [00:43:52] >> Well, there's an there is a charged [00:43:54] child molester. But I'm saying if you [00:43:56] are very involved in the details of this [00:44:00] >> I'm not [00:44:00] >> and you think it's the US government [00:44:02] that's hiding and shielding somebody [00:44:03] then bring it up to the people that you [00:44:05] >> I don't think that I know it because the [00:44:08] justice department has said we have [00:44:10] millions of documents we're not [00:44:11] releasing. [00:44:12] >> Why are they not releasing them? [00:44:13] >> I I'm asking you as a US government [00:44:15] official. Well, but what the answer [00:44:16] >> a government official at the embassy in [00:44:19] Jerusalem that has not one thing to do [00:44:22] with the Justice Department and what [00:44:24] they're investigating on any given day [00:44:26] unless [00:44:26] >> it involves [00:44:27] >> and I don't want to argue or talk in [00:44:29] circles, but you were the one who [00:44:31] brought it up and said it's absolutely [00:44:33] not true. [00:44:34] >> I was only responding to what I've heard [00:44:38] you say. [00:44:39] >> Okay. But now you know there's evidence [00:44:40] and we can settle this debate. you [00:44:42] haven't looked at the evidence and [00:44:43] you're not pushing for the release of [00:44:45] the total corpus of evidence and I'm [00:44:47] confused because I want to believe that [00:44:50] your goal is to get to the truth and the [00:44:52] fastest way to do that is by releasing [00:44:54] the evidence. Don't you think [00:44:55] >> you suggest that I can release the [00:44:57] evidence? [00:44:57] >> I'm suggesting you could call for it [00:44:59] right now. [00:45:00] >> Well, I fine call for it. I would let's [00:45:02] let's have it all open. I thought it was [00:45:04] being all opened up for everything. I [00:45:06] >> Once it's open, I hope you'll read it [00:45:07] because it's it's really interesting and [00:45:10] then it puts to rest [00:45:12] a lot of the the debate and it ends the [00:45:14] name calling because we can say here it [00:45:16] is right there and we don't have to call [00:45:18] people names. We can just assess the [00:45:20] documents. Let me ask you, [00:45:22] >> but you bring it up. I hope you will [00:45:24] bring it up to people at the White House [00:45:25] that [00:45:26] >> I've brought I've brought I'm bringing [00:45:27] it up right now. I'm bringing it up now [00:45:29] and I'm asking I just want to say this [00:45:31] one last time. As the US ambassador to [00:45:33] Israel, [00:45:34] >> I hope that you will make a formal [00:45:37] request to the Israeli government to [00:45:40] send every accused sex offender [00:45:44] in this country back to the United [00:45:45] States to face justice and I don't [00:45:48] understand why that hasn't been done. I [00:45:50] I'm confused. [00:45:53] >> Well, we'll try to clear up all the [00:45:55] confusion that we have. Well, if [00:45:56] someone's been accused of trying to [00:45:57] molest a child, I think it's [00:45:59] >> then then certainly, and I'll check with [00:46:01] the Justice Department because it is a [00:46:02] DOJ issue and it would be handled [00:46:04] through DOJ, the US, to the court [00:46:07] systems in Israel. That's how it would [00:46:09] be handled. [00:46:10] >> But the first step is the Israeli [00:46:12] government saying, "Yes, we will allow [00:46:13] you to extradite this person back. The [00:46:15] person is being shielded by the [00:46:16] government. That's why the person's [00:46:17] here. That's why he fled here, so he [00:46:19] wouldn't have to stand trial for trying [00:46:20] to molest a child." [00:46:22] I want to get to the the as I said at [00:46:24] the outset, I [00:46:27] said something awful that I regret that [00:46:28] my wife barked at me about. Um I lashed [00:46:31] out at Christian Zionists and [00:46:33] evangelicals. And I'm just want to say [00:46:35] again that I'm sorry. Uh I've always [00:46:38] liked them because they're pro-life and [00:46:40] they're also really nice people. So for [00:46:42] the third time, I'm sorry that I said [00:46:43] that. I think part of my problem was I [00:46:46] don't understand the theology and you [00:46:49] are not a fake Baptist minister. You're [00:46:52] an actual minister. You had a church for [00:46:54] many years. You're an actual theologian. [00:46:56] So, and I mean this with sincerity. I [00:46:58] hear people say those who bless Israel [00:47:01] will be blessed. I know it's a reference [00:47:03] to Genesis. [00:47:05] I don't understand the connection [00:47:07] between that concept and modern Israel [00:47:10] and the geopolitical [00:47:12] world. And so I'm going to stand back [00:47:13] and and [00:47:14] >> let's first define because you know from [00:47:16] my days as a debater in high school and [00:47:18] college one of the things I knew you [00:47:20] didn't start the debate till you define [00:47:21] the terms. [00:47:22] >> Amen. [00:47:22] >> Let's define the terms. Thank you. [00:47:24] >> What is what is a Christian Zionist? [00:47:26] What does that mean to you? [00:47:29] >> What does it mean? [00:47:30] >> I don't know. It's the people who call [00:47:32] me a Nazi for asking what Israel means. [00:47:34] I mean that's kind of my I don't even [00:47:36] know. [00:47:36] >> But here's the point. If you say a [00:47:39] Christian Zionist is a person who has a [00:47:42] brain virus and is guilty of heresy, [00:47:45] that's a pretty BIG CHARGE. [00:47:46] >> I KNOW. I shouldn't have made it. I [00:47:48] shouldn't have made it. I made it out of [00:47:49] anger and ignorance. And and I'm [00:47:52] >> Christian, I think we can agree, is [00:47:53] somebody who follows Jesus Christ. [00:47:55] >> Exactly. [00:47:56] >> Has a personal relationship with Jesus [00:47:58] Christ, believe in his death, burial, [00:48:00] resurrection, has repented of one's [00:48:02] sins, and they've accepted him as one [00:48:06] savior. Would that be fair question? [00:48:08] >> Define that [00:48:09] >> Zionist. [00:48:11] >> A Zionist simply means a person who [00:48:13] believes that the Jewish people have a [00:48:16] right to have a homeland where they have [00:48:20] security and safety. Did you believe [00:48:22] that the Jews have a right to live in [00:48:24] Israel? Do you believe that Jews have a [00:48:26] right to live in Israel? [00:48:28] >> I [00:48:28] >> that would be a Zionist. That's all a [00:48:30] Zionist is. [00:48:30] >> I have a million questions about what [00:48:33] all of those terms mean. [00:48:34] >> Yeah. But conceptually, I wish Israel no [00:48:38] harm. I don't want to see I'm very [00:48:40] >> You want them to have a a a place where [00:48:42] they can live with safety. [00:48:45] >> So, I I saw this recently in an [00:48:47] extremely telling exchange between the [00:48:50] lieutenant governor of Texas who I know [00:48:52] and I've always liked and a woman I [00:48:54] don't know, never met, [00:48:56] >> who's on the Religious Liberty [00:48:57] Commission or something, [00:48:58] >> and she said, "I'm a Catholic, but I'm [00:49:01] not a Zionist." and they have this [00:49:04] ferocious exchange and he kept saying [00:49:06] and everyone on the panel seemed to keep [00:49:08] saying you have to believe in Israel's [00:49:11] right to exist which I've never kind of [00:49:13] questioned just for the record but it [00:49:15] did raise two questions I think are [00:49:16] really important and I hope you'll [00:49:18] answer them one is where does that right [00:49:20] come from [00:49:22] >> I would it comes from essentially you [00:49:24] could say it comes from the Bible I [00:49:25] would say that it does but it comes also [00:49:28] from a long iteration of historical [00:49:30] precedents going to the Alfred [00:49:32] Declaration of 1917. It comes from the [00:49:36] League of Nations 1927. It comes from [00:49:38] the United Nations 1947. The Declaration [00:49:42] of Independence of the Israel State in [00:49:44] May of 1948. They were immediately [00:49:47] attacked. They won the war. They were [00:49:49] attacked again in 1956. They won the [00:49:51] war. They were attacked again in 1967 by [00:49:53] five countries. They won the war. They [00:49:55] were attacked again in 1973 in the Yam [00:49:57] Kipar war. They won the war. The point [00:50:00] is, does Israel have a right to exist? [00:50:03] They also had wars in 1982 in Lebanon. [00:50:05] They've had two of those. They've had uh [00:50:08] >> Lebanon again 06. I was there. [00:50:10] >> Uh [00:50:11] >> no, I'm very familiar with the modern [00:50:12] history of the state. [00:50:13] >> Okay. [00:50:14] >> Pretty familiar, I think. And I've been [00:50:16] >> a Zionist simply means somebody who [00:50:17] believes that Israel has a right to [00:50:20] exist. Now, the question is, do you [00:50:21] believe Israel has a right to exist? [00:50:22] >> I guess. I mean, I want Israel to exist. [00:50:24] Well, no, but I want to know what that [00:50:26] means. So, like, do other countries have [00:50:27] a right to exist? Well, they do exist. [00:50:30] >> Do they have a right to exist? You keep [00:50:32] saying Israel has a right to exist. And [00:50:34] I want to know what other countries [00:50:35] have. [00:50:35] >> They have a legal right because every [00:50:37] international body in the last 100 years [00:50:40] has said the Jewish people have a right [00:50:43] to their indigenous home. So that's a [00:50:45] legal right. Do they have a biblical [00:50:47] right? I would say that yes, but you may [00:50:49] say they don't. [00:50:50] >> I don't know. I'm actually sincerely [00:50:51] interested in finding out what you mean [00:50:53] by a biblical right. But first to the [00:50:55] legal right. Does any other country on [00:50:57] the planet have the same right that [00:51:00] Israel has to exist? [00:51:02] >> Well, you could say, does Jordan have a [00:51:04] right to exist? When it was Trans Jordan [00:51:06] and the Brits came and divided up the [00:51:09] Middle East and they gave some land to [00:51:11] Jordanians and they gave some land to [00:51:13] the Saudis and they gave some land uh to [00:51:16] various Middle Eastern countries and it [00:51:18] was all carved up and the French gave [00:51:21] Lebanon its right to exist. Do they have [00:51:23] a right to exist? Do they? [00:51:25] >> Well, why not? [00:51:27] >> Okay. That So, that's my So, every [00:51:29] country, [00:51:29] >> the US have a right to exist. [00:51:31] >> I'm asking you. [00:51:32] >> Okay. And I'm telling you, I think the [00:51:33] US has a right to exist. [00:51:34] >> Okay. [00:51:35] >> We came here. We came there. We're in [00:51:38] Israel now talking. But does the US have [00:51:40] a right to exist? Does anyone question [00:51:42] whether we have a right to exist? [00:51:44] >> I don't. Yeah. But, but I of course I'm [00:51:46] for America, you know. [00:51:47] >> Good for you. But I So every current [00:51:51] country on the map has the same right to [00:51:54] exist that Israel has. Is that what [00:51:56] you're saying? [00:51:56] >> I think what we're saying is that when a [00:51:58] country has established itself and it is [00:52:01] following international law, it has been [00:52:04] deemed by numerous bodies that it is [00:52:08] indigenous to its homeland as Israel is. [00:52:11] This is its homeland. It goes back 3,800 [00:52:13] years to the time of Abraham. It's not [00:52:16] that. [00:52:17] >> Well, hold on. Now I'm getting [00:52:18] >> the Jewish people just showed up here [00:52:19] 1948 and said we're going to we're going [00:52:22] to have some [00:52:22] >> Hold on. So those are two different [00:52:24] tracks and I just want to make sure that [00:52:25] we separate them so I understand each [00:52:26] one separately. [00:52:28] >> So you're saying there's the modern [00:52:29] legal framework and so you said a [00:52:31] country that abides by international law [00:52:33] has a right to exist. [00:52:35] >> I would say that that is a part [00:52:38] >> would it be would the inverse be true [00:52:39] that a country that does not abide by [00:52:41] international law forfeits its right to [00:52:42] exist? Not necessarily if it has the [00:52:45] capacity to stay and make its case [00:52:47] known. But there have been Jewish people [00:52:49] in this land. But that's in this very [00:52:51] land [00:52:52] >> for 3800 years. [00:52:55] >> Okay. So, [00:52:58] >> but you're saying as the modern nation [00:53:01] state with borders and a military and a [00:53:03] Knesset and just all the kind of [00:53:06] trappings of a modern country, all of [00:53:07] which I support. [00:53:09] that country has every country on the [00:53:12] planet has the same right as Israel to [00:53:16] exist because it does exist. Is that [00:53:18] what you're I'm just trying to [00:53:19] understand the concept here. [00:53:20] >> Well, I think what we're trying to get [00:53:22] to is Christian Zionism. And you've [00:53:24] taken this way off the road here. [00:53:26] >> I know that I have. I don't mean to. Um [00:53:28] Christian Zionism is a separate thing, [00:53:29] but I just keep hearing people say [00:53:32] Zionism is the belief. [00:53:33] >> That's the fundamental argument that's [00:53:34] going on. Does Israel have a right to [00:53:38] live in their indigenous ancient [00:53:40] historical land? A land that has been [00:53:43] affirmed throughout international [00:53:46] organizations, [00:53:47] >> a land that has direct ties to the [00:53:49] Jewish people. [00:53:50] >> I just want to know if this is a [00:53:51] universal principle. I guess that's what [00:53:53] I'm getting at. Because if it's not, [00:53:55] then it's meaningless to me because as a [00:53:57] Christian, I believe in universal [00:53:59] principles. Something is right for [00:54:00] everyone or it's wrong for everyone. [00:54:03] We don't believe in special cases. [00:54:05] >> Question. If the Jews didn't have this [00:54:06] land, would the Jews [00:54:08] >> have a right to any land? [00:54:11] >> I I don't know. I'm not attacking the [00:54:12] Jews. I'm asking if this applies to [00:54:15] every people and every nation. Does [00:54:17] every nation have the same right to its [00:54:20] own homeland, to its own physical land [00:54:22] that you say Israel does? [00:54:24] >> I feel like we're in a rabbit hole here. [00:54:26] >> No, I think it's a very straightforward [00:54:27] question. Does that right extend to [00:54:29] other countries other than Israel? But [00:54:30] the most important thing that is going [00:54:32] on in our culture right now is whether [00:54:34] or not the people that are yelling in [00:54:35] the streets from the river to the sea, [00:54:37] >> whether that that's a legitimate point [00:54:39] of view to say that there should not be [00:54:42] a Jewish homeland. There should not be a [00:54:45] Jewish state. [00:54:46] >> You'll never hear me say I just want to [00:54:47] know. [00:54:48] >> I know you haven't said it, but that's [00:54:49] that's the argument. [00:54:50] >> That's one of the arguments going on [00:54:51] globally and the United States, excuse [00:54:54] me, has a pretty narrow view, I would [00:54:57] say, in our media culture, what's [00:54:58] happening around the world. There are [00:55:00] plenty of countries having this debate. [00:55:02] Stonehenge is a lot older than the first [00:55:05] temple in Israel and it was built by the [00:55:07] same people who live there now. It's the [00:55:09] same people and they are being pushed [00:55:12] off their island and outnumbered by [00:55:13] people from other places. And so in [00:55:15] Great Britain, in Ireland, which is also [00:55:19] a a country with a nation of people, a [00:55:22] race if you will, that is being [00:55:24] displaced, replaced, who are they being [00:55:26] replaced by? [00:55:27] >> Immigrants. [00:55:27] >> Okay. [00:55:28] >> From other places. I just wanted to [00:55:29] clarify cuz I was one of the [00:55:31] >> Well, just as a as a demographic matter, [00:55:32] it's just like you can look at the [00:55:34] numbers. It's not controversial. Just [00:55:35] look at the numbers. They'll be a [00:55:36] minority in their country and their [00:55:38] people have been there longer than than [00:55:41] Jews have been in Israel. And so they're [00:55:43] having this debate, too. That's all I'm [00:55:44] saying. [00:55:45] >> And lots of places are having this [00:55:46] debate. [00:55:47] >> Sure. [00:55:47] >> So, does that principle apply to [00:55:50] everyone or is it specific just to [00:55:53] Israel? [00:55:54] >> I think it applies specifically to [00:55:56] Israel. It applies to anyone who can [00:55:58] prove that they have some connection to [00:56:00] the land and connection to the history [00:56:01] and connection to international law. But [00:56:03] Israel, I think, does have [00:56:05] >> bring up international law. My So if [00:56:08] again, [00:56:08] >> well, no, but but let me finish this [00:56:10] because here's the here's the point. [00:56:12] We're talking about Christian Zionism. [00:56:14] The idea that as a Christian, I believe [00:56:16] in both the Old and the New Testament. [00:56:17] Why wouldn't I? I'm a person of the [00:56:19] book. There are 80 million evangelical [00:56:21] Christians in the United States. What [00:56:23] makes us who we are is our adherence to [00:56:26] the scripture. Our belief that the [00:56:27] Bible, all of it, not part of it, but [00:56:30] all of it is the word of the living God. [00:56:31] >> Yeah. [00:56:32] >> So, if I believe in the Old and the New [00:56:33] Testament, I do believe that there is a [00:56:38] very specific call to the Jewish people [00:56:41] that started with Abraham and he called [00:56:43] him out of what is now modern day Iraq. [00:56:46] Said, "Come where I send you." He came. [00:56:49] This is the land. Genesis 12:3 he says, [00:56:53] "I will bless those who bless you, curse [00:56:55] those who curse you." In Genesis 17, he [00:56:58] looks out of world. He says, "Look, and [00:57:00] this is where I'm giving you the land." [00:57:03] >> And since that time, there have been [00:57:05] people living in this land [00:57:08] >> connected to that moment of history. [00:57:10] >> So there is a historical connection that [00:57:13] is not even broken. [00:57:14] >> I I you've said that and I want to ask [00:57:17] you what that means a little more [00:57:18] specifically if that's okay. But first, [00:57:19] let me just say that you could say the [00:57:21] same thing of Britains who've been there [00:57:23] in their land longer. [00:57:24] >> Is anybody trying to tell the Britain [00:57:26] they the Brits they can't live there [00:57:27] anymore? [00:57:28] >> No. What's happening is [00:57:30] >> But they are saying that to the Jews. [00:57:33] >> Okay. Okay. But I just wonder if you [00:57:34] would extend extend the same sympathy or [00:57:36] the same principle. You don't You seem [00:57:37] like this is You think I'm trying to [00:57:38] trap you? I'm not. I'm at all trying to [00:57:40] trap you. I It'd be as simple as saying [00:57:43] native Britain have [00:57:44] >> I got no problem with the native Brits [00:57:46] having their land. point is I don't know [00:57:48] that there is a biblical connection for [00:57:50] the Brits, [00:57:52] >> but I would say that's take that off the [00:57:54] table [00:57:54] >> and I think there's still a basis [00:57:57] >> for the Jews having this little bitty [00:58:00] strip of real estate and it is [00:58:01] >> I'm not even arguing with you. I'm just [00:58:03] trying to at all I'm just trying to [00:58:04] understand what it is that you're saying [00:58:06] because it's [00:58:06] >> it's not obvious to me and maybe it's an [00:58:09] IQ problem but I'm having trouble [00:58:10] understanding this. [00:58:11] >> But let me just go back to just clarify [00:58:14] one thing. You you've brought up [00:58:15] international at least twice, maybe [00:58:16] three times. as a basis for Israel's [00:58:19] legitimacy. If Israel was out of [00:58:22] compliance with international law, [00:58:23] whatever that is, would it be less [00:58:26] legitimate? [00:58:27] >> Depends on if the the law and the way [00:58:29] it's applied is legitimate. There there [00:58:31] are some applications of so-called [00:58:33] international law that are not [00:58:34] legitimate. Look at the ICC or the ICJ. [00:58:37] >> I agree. [00:58:37] >> Utterly ridiculous. One of the reasons [00:58:39] I'm so grateful President Trump and [00:58:41] Secretary Rubio are pushing hard trying [00:58:44] to get rid of the ICC and the ICJ is [00:58:47] because they have become rogue [00:58:48] organizations that are no longer really [00:58:50] about an equal application of law and [00:58:53] justice. [00:58:54] >> I don't know enough about it to say if [00:58:55] that's true or not. I I um but I just [00:58:58] I'm interested that you yourself [00:59:00] appealed to international law as a basis [00:59:03] of is Israel's [00:59:04] >> what I'm looking at is the whole of the [00:59:06] last 100 years. The Belffor declaration [00:59:08] is not exactly international law by the [00:59:10] way. It was a letter. I think [00:59:11] >> it was maybe maybe not law but it was a [00:59:13] declaration. It was a an assumption and [00:59:17] a declaration that was done by Lord [00:59:19] Balffor in the in Great Britain at that [00:59:22] time this land was under the British [00:59:25] mandate. And he said the Jews should [00:59:27] have the land that was theirs from 3,800 [00:59:31] years ago. It was simple as that. [00:59:33] >> Right. And I'm not debating that. I'm [00:59:34] just it was not it was not international [00:59:37] law. It was a colonial power saying okay [00:59:39] but then later [00:59:41] under the League of Nations under the [00:59:42] United Nations and then because of the [00:59:45] victories that Israel had against those [00:59:47] who tried to annihilate them and it [00:59:49] wasn't just that they were trying to [00:59:50] take a little piece of their land. They [00:59:51] tried to annihilate them. [00:59:52] >> Okay. [00:59:53] >> And there is still to this day the [00:59:55] shouts of from the river to the sea and [00:59:57] Tucker that means only one thing. Not [01:00:00] the shrinking of Israel but the [01:00:02] annihilation of Israel. I don't think I [01:00:05] don't think you can say that you know [01:00:06] what it means actually because you don't [01:00:08] know what's in people's hearts. So why [01:00:10] don't we just deal with the facts? Maybe [01:00:12] some people mean it in their mouths. I [01:00:13] know it's in their minds. [01:00:15] >> But I'm not Look, you'll never hear me [01:00:16] say that. I What you will hear me say is [01:00:18] I'm confused by what the definitions [01:00:20] are. So let's go through this. You've [01:00:21] appealed to Genesis. Genesis 15 says [01:00:24] it's Abram. It's pre-Abraham. It's Abram [01:00:27] receives from God the news that his [01:00:30] descendants will inherit the land. And [01:00:31] you tell me as the as the theologian if [01:00:33] I'm getting this wrong, but from the [01:00:36] Euphrates to the Nile, I think I think [01:00:38] that's right. And that would include [01:00:42] like basically the entire Middle East. [01:00:44] That would be the Levant. So that would [01:00:46] be Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon. It [01:00:49] would also be big parts of Saudi Arabia [01:00:52] and Iraq. It would be I mean [01:00:53] >> not sure it would go that far. I mean it [01:00:55] would be a big piece of land. But here's [01:00:56] the point. It would be a lot of places [01:00:58] that are now countries that [01:01:00] >> but this particular area that we're [01:01:02] talking about now, Israel is um is a [01:01:08] land that God gave through Abraham to a [01:01:11] people that he chose. It was a people, a [01:01:14] place, and a purpose. We we can look at [01:01:16] it that way. [01:01:18] >> Christian Zionism, I want to go back cuz [01:01:19] that's where we started on. not going to [01:01:21] let you off on this because you have [01:01:22] said three times that God gave this land [01:01:25] >> to this people. And so it is entirely [01:01:28] fair for me with respect to ask what [01:01:30] land are you talking about? Because I [01:01:31] just read Genesis 15 as I have many [01:01:33] times. [01:01:34] >> And that land I think it says from the [01:01:37] Nile to the Euphrates, which is once [01:01:40] again basically the entire Middle East. [01:01:42] So God gave that land to his people, the [01:01:45] Jews, or he didn't. You're saying he [01:01:47] did? [01:01:49] What does that mean? Does Israel have [01:01:51] the right to that land? Because you're [01:01:54] appealing to Genesis. Yeah. You're [01:01:55] saying that's the original deed? [01:02:00] >> It would be fine if they took it all, [01:02:02] but I don't think that's what we're [01:02:03] talking about here today. [01:02:04] >> What would be fine? Well, it's exactly [01:02:05] what we're talking about today. [01:02:06] >> But, but here's what I I don't think [01:02:08] >> I think it would be fine if the state of [01:02:09] Israel took over all. [01:02:10] >> They don't want to take it over. They're [01:02:12] not asking to take it over. But you're [01:02:14] saying that the reason that Israel is [01:02:16] legitimate, has this inherent right to [01:02:18] exist is bec God gave it to his people. [01:02:22] And I am going to the same Bible that [01:02:24] you're referring to and noticing that [01:02:26] that is a huge piece of land. So if God [01:02:29] gave them that land, then they have a [01:02:30] right to take it now by your definition. [01:02:33] Unless I'm missing something. I think [01:02:34] you're missing something because they're [01:02:36] not asking to go back to take all of [01:02:38] that, but they are asking to at least [01:02:40] take the land [01:02:42] >> that they now occupy, they now live in, [01:02:45] they now own legitimately, and it is a [01:02:49] safe haven for them. Well, but may I ask [01:02:51] though as because you're appealing, [01:02:53] you're explaining what Christian Zionism [01:02:54] is and your theological beliefs [01:02:57] >> and I think you just said it would be [01:02:58] fine with you if the state of Israel [01:03:00] took all of all of Syria, all of [01:03:03] Lebanon. [01:03:04] >> That's that's really not exactly what [01:03:07] I'm trying to say. [01:03:07] >> I'm asking, is that what you said? I [01:03:08] thought that's what you just said. It [01:03:10] was somewhat of a hyperbolic statement [01:03:12] in that, you know, if that's what you [01:03:13] feel like that we're talking about, but [01:03:15] it isn't. We're talking about this land [01:03:18] that Israel, the state of Israel, now [01:03:22] lives in and wants to have peace in. [01:03:26] They're not trying to take over Jordan. [01:03:28] They're not trying to take over Syria. [01:03:30] They're not trying to take over Iraq or [01:03:32] anywhere else, [01:03:33] >> but they do want to protect their [01:03:35] people. [01:03:36] >> No, they're not trying to take over [01:03:37] Lebanon. But you're saying that as a [01:03:40] religious man, as a Christian, a [01:03:41] Christian Zionist, you agree with a lot [01:03:44] of religious communities here in Israel, [01:03:46] that the justification for this country [01:03:48] is theological. It's a it's a contract [01:03:50] between God and his people. And I'm [01:03:52] telling you that that contract includes [01:03:55] a tract of land that is much larger than [01:03:57] the current nation state. You may be a [01:04:00] bigger Zionist than even the Jews are [01:04:01] that live in [01:04:02] >> I'm trying to understand the [01:04:03] implications of your theology for [01:04:05] geopolitics because you're saying that [01:04:08] the present government of Israel has a [01:04:11] moral right to take over what are now [01:04:13] other people's countries. [01:04:14] >> No, I didn't say that. [01:04:15] >> Then what are you saying? [01:04:16] >> I'm simply saying that the people who [01:04:18] live in Israel um I think have a right [01:04:21] to have security, have safety. They have [01:04:24] a right to be able to live in this land [01:04:28] that they have a connection to for 30 [01:04:30] years. [01:04:30] >> I told myself when I said a prayer that [01:04:32] I would not get annoyed, but as someone [01:04:33] who is, you know, the father of [01:04:36] daughters, when I see child molesters [01:04:40] >> hiding in Israel and escaping American [01:04:43] justice, I think I have a right to [01:04:45] safety in my country, too. So, you can [01:04:47] understand that. I think most people [01:04:49] feel they have a right to safety. I do [01:04:51] think Israel has a right to safety and I [01:04:54] I hope that for them and I'm sincere, [01:04:56] but I'm an American and I have a right [01:04:59] to safety in my country, too. Don't you [01:05:01] agree? And I think so, but I just want [01:05:03] to get to this point. [01:05:05] >> If Israel were to say, God gave us in [01:05:08] Genesis 15, all of Lebanon, all of [01:05:12] Syria, all the way up to Iraq, would [01:05:16] that be legitimate in your view? I don't [01:05:18] think in this particular day and time [01:05:20] they're asking for it. [01:05:21] >> Would it be legitimate? [01:05:22] >> I'm not sure that it would be. [01:05:24] >> Why? Because you just said that God [01:05:26] >> because I think that there is a a an [01:05:29] understanding that the people of Israel [01:05:31] today. Now, if they end up getting [01:05:34] attacked by all these places and they [01:05:36] win that war and they take that land, [01:05:38] then okay, that that's a whole another [01:05:40] whole another discussion. But you and I [01:05:42] started saying women started talking [01:05:44] about something simple Christian [01:05:47] Zionism. But it turns out it's not [01:05:49] because I don't the core of Christian [01:05:51] Zionism you said and I'm quoting you [01:05:53] >> is the understanding the belief the [01:05:55] theological understanding [01:05:56] >> that Jews have a moral and legal we went [01:06:00] through the legal [01:06:02] >> moral deriving from the biblical the [01:06:04] promises in our Bible [01:06:05] >> which we share with the Jewish people [01:06:07] the first part of the old testament [01:06:10] >> that it derives from God's promise to [01:06:12] the Jews [01:06:14] >> and so I have two questions what are the [01:06:16] borders [01:06:17] of that and who are those people in 2026 [01:06:24] and you're not the first person I've [01:06:25] asked but you're the most reasonable [01:06:27] most gentle most theologically informed [01:06:29] person so I'm really hoping for an [01:06:30] answer [01:06:31] >> the first question was the borders I [01:06:33] can't get an answer those borders are so [01:06:35] I'm going to give up but the second [01:06:37] question is every bit as pressing which [01:06:38] is who are the people [01:06:40] >> who are the modern yes yes who are who [01:06:42] are the descendants so we know and I [01:06:44] believe and I agree with you as a that [01:06:46] God promised this land from modern day [01:06:51] Iraq to modern day Egypt to this people [01:06:53] the Jews to Abram's actually not to the [01:06:56] to Abram's descendants as it says in [01:06:58] Genesis 15. Who are his descendants now? [01:07:01] And how do we know who they are? I think [01:07:03] they're the Jews and we know who they [01:07:05] are because they've always been a Jewish [01:07:07] people. There has been an unbroken line [01:07:09] of Jewish people and they've lived in [01:07:11] this land for 3,800 years. sometimes not [01:07:15] very many of them because they were [01:07:16] chased out all over the world. They were [01:07:18] hunted down. They were almost [01:07:20] annihilated during the Holocaust. They [01:07:22] came back. To this day, Tucker, they [01:07:24] represent, you know, how many Jews there [01:07:25] are in the whole world. [01:07:26] >> Please, I understand. First of all, the [01:07:29] greatest genocide of Jews no one ever [01:07:31] mentions was by the Romans where they [01:07:33] were literally banned from Jerusalem for [01:07:36] 500 years. [01:07:36] >> Yeah, of course. [01:07:37] >> And and it's all awful. And I'm opposed [01:07:39] to all of that. I'm opposed to mass [01:07:41] killing of anybody, period. I'm supposed [01:07:43] to hear [01:07:44] >> you say that. [01:07:45] >> I mean it. [01:07:46] >> Yeah. [01:07:46] >> And I hope I believe that. [01:07:49] >> My question is, and it's not a bumper [01:07:51] sticker answer, it's a sincere answer. [01:07:53] How do we know? Because what you're [01:07:56] saying is that certain people have a [01:07:58] title to a highly contested region. They [01:08:01] own it in some deep sense. So I think [01:08:04] it's fair to ask, who are they? And how [01:08:06] do we know? So the current prime [01:08:08] minister's ancestors weren't from here [01:08:10] within recorded history. there. He has [01:08:12] no deed. BB Netanyahu on one side, his [01:08:15] family's from Poland. They're from [01:08:16] Eastern Europe. So, how do we know that [01:08:19] he has a connection to the people [01:08:22] who God promised the land to, Abram's [01:08:24] descendants? How do we know that? [01:08:25] >> Well, if you take the genealogies that [01:08:27] come not only from the Old, but the New [01:08:29] Testament, you see that there is a [01:08:31] historical connection through the [01:08:33] entirety of the Old and the New [01:08:35] Testament that details the Jewish [01:08:38] connection to this land. [01:08:39] >> Does that include his family? How do we [01:08:41] know that if his family [01:08:43] >> scattered? [01:08:43] >> But how do we know it's the same people? [01:08:46] >> How do you know? Why is that crazy? If [01:08:48] if if you say to me, [01:08:49] >> if they speak the same language, if they [01:08:51] worship the same God, if they follow the [01:08:53] same Bible, if they follow the same [01:08:55] cultures and traditions and they always [01:08:57] pray next year in Jerusalem and they [01:08:59] pray for the peace of Jerusalem and they [01:09:01] pray facing toward Jerusalem, does that [01:09:03] not give you a little bit of a clue as [01:09:05] to who they are? [01:09:06] >> Let's go through those things because I [01:09:07] would like to have a rational. This is a [01:09:09] conversation I've wanted. Bless you. [01:09:10] Thank you for doing this. [01:09:12] >> Um, let's just go through those things. [01:09:14] >> Okay, [01:09:15] >> so one of the things I admire most about [01:09:16] Israel is they resurrected a dead [01:09:17] language in 1948. [01:09:19] >> Good for them. [01:09:21] >> Well, they really didn't resurrected. It [01:09:23] It was existent. [01:09:24] >> Okay. I'm not That's not That's a [01:09:26] compliment. I'm not slight no. But it is [01:09:28] the first time in all of human history [01:09:29] that a language [01:09:31] >> has survived through this length of [01:09:33] time. It's it's it's I would call it You [01:09:35] might not, but I would call it a [01:09:37] miracle. one of many. [01:09:39] >> Okay, then you can I think it's [01:09:41] wonderful as someone who loves language. [01:09:43] >> Netanyahu's parents did not speak [01:09:44] Hebrew. [01:09:45] >> Okay, they didn't live in this region. [01:09:48] >> Netanyahu, the founders of this country [01:09:50] were mostly secular. Some of them were [01:09:52] avowed atheists. They were not praying [01:09:54] for the peace of Jerusalem. They weren't [01:09:55] praying at all because they didn't [01:09:56] believe in God. [01:09:58] >> There's no genealogy linking their [01:10:00] families to the people of this land [01:10:03] 3,000 years ago. There none. So, how do [01:10:06] we know since they didn't share a [01:10:08] language, they didn't share a religion, [01:10:10] they had no religion whatsoever, [01:10:13] how do we know that they had a right to [01:10:16] come here from Eastern Europe and [01:10:19] >> but they were the land. [01:10:21] >> They were scattered to Eastern Europe. [01:10:22] They were scattered all over the world. [01:10:24] There were many in Ethiopia. They were [01:10:26] in Russia. They were in Poland. They [01:10:28] were throughout Asia. Jews were all over [01:10:31] the place, but they were still Jews. But [01:10:33] they were still Jews. [01:10:35] >> Okay. So then let me get to the nub of [01:10:37] the question since again a lot is at [01:10:39] stake. A lot of money is at stake. Land [01:10:40] is very valuable. [01:10:43] >> Uh Israel has a lot of resources. By the [01:10:44] way, if you're accused of a crime, you [01:10:45] can hide here. That's pretty good [01:10:47] passport to have. It's a good thing, [01:10:49] right? So who's entitled to it? [01:10:53] I don't understand. And you're very [01:10:55] discouraged in the United States from [01:10:56] asking this question for some reason. [01:10:57] It's a totally rational discourage. [01:10:59] >> No, you're not discouraging me. Others [01:11:00] do. You're like the only person I have [01:11:02] this conversation with. be like, "Shut [01:11:03] up, Nazi." It It's a foundational [01:11:05] question. Are you speaking of an ethnic [01:11:09] group or a religious group? [01:11:11] >> Well, I think you're looking at for many [01:11:13] people, it is religious. There are [01:11:15] people who may not have a deep religious [01:11:19] connection to Judaism, but they're still [01:11:20] Jews. [01:11:21] >> Okay? [01:11:21] >> So, it's it's an ethnic category. [01:11:23] >> It is ethnic, but it is also religious. [01:11:25] It is rooted in religion. You can't take [01:11:27] it out of it. Now, that means [01:11:29] >> then how can an atheist [01:11:30] >> Well, I will tell you this. There are [01:11:31] some people who say, "I'm Christian." [01:11:33] They never go to church. They never [01:11:35] pray. They never read their Bible. They [01:11:37] don't tithe. [01:11:38] >> But they're not entitled to citizenship [01:11:39] on the basis of that. They're not [01:11:40] entitled. [01:11:41] >> They still call themselves Christian [01:11:43] even though they identify. [01:11:45] >> Okay. Here's the difference. You're [01:11:47] saying that people who have this [01:11:51] identification [01:11:52] have a deed to a huge chunk of land on [01:11:56] the Mediterranean. Okay. So there's, you [01:12:00] know, it's a it's a right. You keep [01:12:02] telling me it's a right. And so it's [01:12:04] totally fair to say if you come to my [01:12:05] house and say, "I've got the title to [01:12:07] your house." I get to ask, "May I see [01:12:09] it? Where'd you get it?" And that's [01:12:11] exactly what happened here. People from [01:12:13] Europe, Eastern Europe, came here, in a [01:12:15] lot of cases, atheists, and kicked out a [01:12:18] lot of people who lived here. [01:12:20] >> Land. [01:12:20] >> Well, they did not just throw people [01:12:23] out. [01:12:23] >> They bought a lot of land. There's no [01:12:24] question about that. a lot of land, [01:12:25] >> but they also in 1948 kicked out [01:12:28] >> a lot of people and the war [01:12:31] >> it was a war. I agree. I'm not Look, I'm [01:12:33] not want to reitigate the history. I'm [01:12:35] just saying it's a fact. [01:12:36] >> Okay, [01:12:36] >> including a lot of Christians. A lot of [01:12:38] Christians uh wound up fleeing [01:12:41] >> and they lost their homes and they've [01:12:42] never been allowed back and all of this [01:12:44] was justified on the basis of this [01:12:47] identity that forms that is the ticket [01:12:50] to the right that you keep referring to. [01:12:52] So my question is very simple and I'm [01:12:54] going to wait patiently for an answer. [01:12:55] Does this right derive from religious [01:12:57] affiliation [01:12:59] or from genetics? [01:13:00] >> And I would say it's both. But I would [01:13:02] also say that when you said that [01:13:03] Christians were kicked out, Tucker, [01:13:05] Christianity is growing in Israel. [01:13:08] >> Okay. But [01:13:08] >> and and there is a big lie that goes out [01:13:10] there. But but no, let me finish this [01:13:12] because I I keep hearing that Christians [01:13:14] are [01:13:15] >> really not treated well in Israel. [01:13:17] That's just simply that's a lie. [01:13:19] >> Well, there is a lie. There are lots of [01:13:21] different [01:13:21] >> There were 34,000 Christians in Israel [01:13:23] in 1948. There are 184,000 Christians [01:13:26] here today. [01:13:26] >> And by Israel, what are you counting? [01:13:29] >> You talking about the land? [01:13:31] >> What what what territory are you [01:13:32] counting? You're counting Israel proper. [01:13:35] Are you counting the West Bank as well [01:13:37] and Gaza? I mean, what what do you when [01:13:39] you say Israel, those numbers apply to [01:13:41] what land mass? [01:13:42] >> It would be in Israel proper. Okay, [01:13:44] there 184,000. [01:13:46] >> Now, I'll tell you where Christians are [01:13:48] not doing very well. They're not doing [01:13:50] very well in the Muslim control [01:13:51] countries. There's almost no Christians [01:13:54] in Qatar, for example, except those who [01:13:57] live in the Christian ghetto who are the [01:13:59] service workers. [01:14:00] >> I'm sorry. Look, I don't want to argue [01:14:01] with you. There there are many more [01:14:03] Christians in Qatar than there are in [01:14:04] Israel. [01:14:05] >> That's not true. [01:14:06] >> What? It actually is true. And I refer [01:14:07] you to Wikipedia, Mr. Ambassador. [01:14:09] >> Wikipedia the I refer you to the [01:14:11] government of Qar, the government of [01:14:12] Israel. These are knowable facts. Like [01:14:14] I'm And I'm in Jordan. The numbers are [01:14:16] down. In Syria, the numbers are down. [01:14:17] Lebanon the numbers are down. I'm just [01:14:19] telling you that [01:14:20] >> about twice as many Christians, [01:14:21] >> but they live in the enclave. They are [01:14:23] not native Qataris. [01:14:26] >> Okay, we're we're mixing so many [01:14:27] different categories here. I'm just [01:14:28] saying I get things wrong all the time. [01:14:30] You've just gotten something wrong. And [01:14:31] I think it's important to acknowledge [01:14:32] it. There are many more Christians in [01:14:33] Qar than there are in Israel. Fact. [01:14:35] >> How many? [01:14:37] >> Now, you caught me. I don't know. I [01:14:38] could look at my phone, but I was just [01:14:40] there. And there are many more like [01:14:41] whatever. But I just want to get to the [01:14:43] point [01:14:45] that forms the basis of this whole [01:14:47] conversation which is who has a right to [01:14:50] the land. [01:14:50] >> Yeah. [01:14:51] >> And you said it's a mixture of religion [01:14:53] and ethnicity because as I noted and you [01:14:56] agree many of the founders maybe the [01:14:58] majority of the founders of modern [01:14:59] Israel did not believe in God at all. So [01:15:01] they were not religious Jews. They [01:15:02] weren't religious at all. They were [01:15:03] atheists. [01:15:04] >> They said they were atheists. I believe [01:15:05] them. [01:15:06] >> So that suggests it's ethnic. But it's [01:15:09] also true, as you well know, because [01:15:11] there's a famous court case about this, [01:15:13] that ethnic Jews who convert to [01:15:15] Christianity do not have the right of [01:15:17] return. That was settled by the Israeli [01:15:19] Supreme Court. [01:15:21] I'm very confused. So that would suggest [01:15:23] it's not ethnicity because you [01:15:26] invalidate your Jewishness by converting [01:15:28] to Christianity. [01:15:29] >> There are a number of Messianic Jews who [01:15:31] live in Israel, [01:15:33] who are here. I'm aware of significant [01:15:35] number but you're not contesting what [01:15:36] I'm saying because it's a very famous [01:15:39] court case. [01:15:40] >> The right of return has to do with your [01:15:43] mother, your grandmother. It has to do [01:15:45] with family ties. [01:15:47] >> There is a lot of sure ethnicity is a [01:15:49] big part of the right of return to make [01:15:51] aliyah to come to Israel to live here. [01:15:54] Then if I if both of your parents are [01:15:56] Jewish and you have an ethnic right to [01:16:00] land, you are one of Abram's [01:16:01] descendants, but you convert to [01:16:03] Christianity. How is it you don't have [01:16:05] the right to return? I'm totally [01:16:06] confused. [01:16:07] >> But I know a number of people who have [01:16:09] returned as Christians, but have Jewish [01:16:12] history. [01:16:13] >> Are you saying that Jews who convert to [01:16:16] Christianity have a right, a legal right [01:16:19] to return? Cuz I [01:16:21] >> I know that they do. Whether when you [01:16:24] say do they have a right to return do [01:16:26] they prove [01:16:27] >> it's a it's a legal category as in any [01:16:28] government [01:16:29] >> which by their family history their [01:16:32] grandmother their mother and there are [01:16:34] many aspects of that [01:16:36] >> I've read it I think I know that these [01:16:37] were people who were Christian and they [01:16:39] came here made aliyah they had Jewish [01:16:43] blood Jewish history they were Christian [01:16:47] messianic but they came here and they [01:16:50] were welcomed here [01:16:51] >> and they were given full legal rights [01:16:53] and a passport. So, so clearly [01:16:56] >> that's not it's not true that you [01:16:58] invalidate your right of return by [01:17:00] converting to Christianity. That's just [01:17:01] false. [01:17:02] >> I'm not aware of that. I I know that [01:17:04] there are a number of Christians here. I [01:17:05] go to church with Christians every week [01:17:07] here. [01:17:08] >> Of course. But do you have a right to [01:17:10] come and say I am an ethnic Jew even [01:17:13] though I practice Christianity. [01:17:15] Therefore, I have every bit as much [01:17:17] right to move into a settlement in the [01:17:19] West Bank or into East Jerusale or [01:17:21] anywhere I want, Galilee, anywhere [01:17:24] because I am returning to the land of my [01:17:27] forefathers of a legal right in the [01:17:28] state of Israel even though I've [01:17:30] converted to Christianity. You're saying [01:17:31] that's true. [01:17:32] >> I'm saying I know people have done it. [01:17:34] Now, can can I tell you what the law [01:17:36] specifically is? I'm not sure because [01:17:38] it's really [01:17:39] >> I'm a Christian. I'm not I don't have [01:17:40] any Jewish roots. So, therefore, I [01:17:43] cannot quote you the law. If you want me [01:17:44] to do that, I'll look at [01:17:45] >> Well, it really matters because you're [01:17:47] saying, in fact, people in the United [01:17:49] States are being called anti-semites. [01:17:52] >> A lot of them, including me, because [01:17:56] they somehow don't believe that Israel [01:17:58] has a right to this land. [01:18:00] >> Do you think Israel has a right to this [01:18:02] land? [01:18:02] >> No. You haven't defined what the land [01:18:04] is, and you haven't defined who Israel [01:18:05] is, so I really don't know. [01:18:07] >> It is the land they're living in now. [01:18:09] The borders that they have, [01:18:10] >> the borders are moving. The borders have [01:18:12] moved in the last year. [01:18:13] >> What do you mean the borders have moved [01:18:15] in the last [01:18:15] >> Well, they they are the 1967 borders. [01:18:17] I'm including, you know, the the West [01:18:20] >> East Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria. [01:18:23] >> What are the borders of Judea and [01:18:24] Samaria? [01:18:25] >> Well, you basically take the Jordan [01:18:28] River and it's west of the Jordan River [01:18:32] to the Mediterranean Sea to the Lebanon [01:18:35] border. And uh Israel did have control [01:18:38] of the Sinai. They gave that to Egypt. [01:18:40] They had control of it, [01:18:42] >> right? [01:18:42] >> They gave it away in 1979 in the peace [01:18:44] agreement. [01:18:46] >> Um, [01:18:47] >> but we whatever you call it, the land [01:18:51] that was taken from Jordan in 1967, you [01:18:54] call it Judea and Samaria. There's a [01:18:55] significance to that that I [01:18:57] >> don't fully understand against it. I [01:19:00] don't know what it it's 80% of the Bible [01:19:03] happened in Judea and Samaria. But we've [01:19:04] also established that the Bible gives [01:19:06] Jews the right to occupy the land from [01:19:09] the Nile to the Euphrates. So I'm very [01:19:11] confused by why we've shrunk the land [01:19:15] and why we're dis [01:19:15] >> Israel has shrunk the land. They have [01:19:18] made that decision. That's why they gave [01:19:20] away now. [01:19:23] They've given away a lot of things. [01:19:26] >> Abram's descendants are the ones who [01:19:28] have the right to have this land. [01:19:30] Correct. [01:19:30] >> Yes. [01:19:31] >> Okay. Why don't we do genetic testing on [01:19:33] everybody in the land and find out who [01:19:35] Abram's descendants are? It's really [01:19:37] simple. We've cracked the human genome. [01:19:39] We can do that. Why don't we do that? [01:19:41] Would you be against doing that? [01:19:44] >> I I have no idea what that would prove. [01:19:47] I mean, maybe it would be [01:19:48] >> What do you mean what it would? It would [01:19:49] prove who Abram's descendants are and [01:19:51] who has a a right to live here and who [01:19:54] doesn't according to the theology that [01:19:56] you yourself just explained. And so I'm [01:19:59] very confused as to why we don't do [01:20:00] that. If you believe the theology that [01:20:03] you've just explained to me, [01:20:04] >> would we do that all over the world? [01:20:06] Everybody, [01:20:06] >> this is the only country in the world [01:20:08] that you've said has [01:20:10] this covenant with God that this people [01:20:13] have a moral and legal right to the [01:20:16] land. [01:20:16] >> What about people who convert to [01:20:17] Judaism? Would they have a right? [01:20:19] >> Well, you've just [01:20:22] you've just said to Judaism, so you just [01:20:25] told me [01:20:25] >> they can make aliyah. They may not have [01:20:27] you just told me that it doesn't matter. [01:20:30] You told me moments ago, trying to keep [01:20:33] track, okay, [01:20:34] >> that it doesn't matter whether or not [01:20:36] you believe in God or whether or not you [01:20:38] practice Torah Judaism or rabbitic [01:20:40] Judaism, which is something else that I [01:20:42] I don't even know if we should I don't [01:20:44] even know what that means. But it [01:20:46] doesn't matter whether you're quote a [01:20:48] religious Jew or not. What matters is [01:20:51] that you are part of the Jewish people [01:20:55] to whom God gave this land that extends [01:20:57] from the Nile to the Euphrates. And so [01:21:00] if you believe that, wouldn't you want [01:21:02] to know with a burning passion who those [01:21:05] people are? And because of science, we [01:21:07] can now know [01:21:08] >> who those people are. [01:21:09] >> So why aren't we finding out? [01:21:12] >> I guess you could propose a DNA test for [01:21:15] everybody who comes here, everybody who [01:21:17] lives here. But the point [01:21:18] >> I'm comfortable with secular nation [01:21:19] states where it's none of this is done [01:21:22] on the basis of blood. I'm uncomfortable [01:21:24] with that. I'll just say that. But there [01:21:26] are people who may not have bloodlines [01:21:28] but who have converted to Judaism. [01:21:31] Are they going to be able to live here? [01:21:32] Are you going to kick them out? [01:21:33] >> By your standards, they can't live here [01:21:35] because you just told me that they have [01:21:37] a right to live here because God gave [01:21:39] them the land because they're the [01:21:41] descendants of Abram. [01:21:42] >> They're the descendants of Abraham. But [01:21:44] if they're the spiritual descendants of [01:21:46] Abraham and they've now decided that [01:21:48] they're converting to Judaism, [01:21:52] then do they have a right to live in [01:21:53] Israel? I well there's a whole legal [01:21:56] literature in Israel on that question [01:21:58] and my understanding is that certain [01:22:02] types of modern Judaism qualify a person [01:22:05] and other types don't is that your [01:22:08] understanding [01:22:10] >> I don't believe that people converted [01:22:12] and I could have this wrong but I know [01:22:14] people who faced this personally know [01:22:16] people I don't believe people who've [01:22:18] converted in a reform synagogue have the [01:22:22] right of return. I I don't think that is [01:22:24] because I know people who've married [01:22:25] into Jewish families and they find out [01:22:27] they don't have the right of return. So [01:22:30] that is perplexing to me. Yeah. I know [01:22:33] you know my experience is a little [01:22:34] different than yours. I know people who [01:22:38] have definite Jewish connections [01:22:43] uh family relations but now they're [01:22:46] Christian. Some are not necessarily [01:22:48] practicing Jews. They're not uh they're [01:22:50] more secular Jews as you've discussed, [01:22:53] but they come back here. [01:22:54] >> Okay. I'm not against that. I just I'm [01:22:56] just wondering since you have since you [01:22:58] began this conversation by asking me, [01:22:59] did I think they had a right to come [01:23:01] here? [01:23:01] >> Yeah. [01:23:01] >> And my question was on what basis do [01:23:04] they have the right? And you said [01:23:05] because God granted it to them. [01:23:07] >> Yeah. And also said because that there [01:23:08] should be a land where Jews could live [01:23:11] in peace and safety. I [01:23:12] >> And I asked you what a Jew was and you [01:23:14] couldn't answer it. You said it it [01:23:16] partly is religious but doesn't have to [01:23:17] be. It's partly genetic, but it doesn't [01:23:19] have to be. And so that you can see why [01:23:21] I'm [01:23:21] >> I think I was very clear that being [01:23:23] Jewish is an identification either [01:23:26] through blood or through faith that [01:23:29] you're Jewish. It may be that you're a [01:23:32] blood Jew, but you don't necessarily [01:23:34] practice Judaism. Just like there are [01:23:36] people who say they're Christian, but [01:23:38] they don't do a thing to demonstrate [01:23:40] what Christian. [01:23:40] >> There are a lot of bad Christians, [01:23:41] including me some of the time, a lot of [01:23:43] the time. But I don't have a right to [01:23:46] real estate on the basis of my claim of [01:23:48] Christian. [01:23:48] >> You don't have a right to real estate if [01:23:51] you're talking about a specific parcel. [01:23:53] But if you're talking about a land, I [01:23:54] think what we're talking about, that's [01:23:56] all I'm all I'm saying. [01:23:58] >> And there was a designation to the [01:24:00] family of nations of the world that [01:24:02] there would be a Jewish homeland. Let's [01:24:04] let's get to that point cuz I think [01:24:06] you've taken us on several trails here [01:24:08] and I'm not sure we can follow them all. [01:24:12] But is there a reason that the Jewish [01:24:15] people that represent and I want to get [01:24:17] back to this because you didn't let me [01:24:18] finish while ago. They represent 0.2% of [01:24:21] the world's population in the entirety [01:24:24] of the world there about 16 million Jews [01:24:26] total and 8 million of them live here. [01:24:29] The rest live mostly in New York or [01:24:32] South Florida and a few other places. [01:24:34] >> Okay. [01:24:35] >> So, this is a small population of [01:24:37] people. [01:24:39] They have connection to this land [01:24:42] historically, biblically. [01:24:44] >> Do they? [01:24:45] >> Yes, they do. [01:24:46] >> If if BB's family, we know they lived in [01:24:49] Eastern Europe. There's no evidence they [01:24:51] ever lived here. He's not religious in [01:24:53] what [01:24:55] do you have his family tree? No, we [01:24:57] don't. [01:24:57] >> Do you? He doesn't. So, no one does. [01:25:00] That's the point. So, how do we know [01:25:01] that he has any connection to the land [01:25:02] at all? [01:25:03] >> And if there has been a practice of [01:25:04] Judaism and a connection to the [01:25:06] language, the Bible, the land, [01:25:08] >> his His ancestors didn't he doesn't [01:25:11] practice Judaism in any rigorous way. [01:25:14] His ancestors didn't live here. They [01:25:15] didn't speak the language and there's no [01:25:17] evidence they ever lived here. So, in [01:25:18] what basis does he have a right to [01:25:19] >> very much speaks the language? [01:25:21] >> He has fought for the land. His family [01:25:23] has fought for the land. dodging of the [01:25:26] obvious question which is where does [01:25:27] this right come from and the reason it's [01:25:29] meaningful is because there are a lot of [01:25:32] >> people in the territory that Israel [01:25:34] controls today particularly in the West [01:25:36] Bank [01:25:38] >> who through genetic testing we can know [01:25:40] their families have been here for [01:25:42] thousands of years we don't know whether [01:25:43] they practice Judaism whether they were [01:25:45] Samaritans [01:25:47] pre-Islam we don't know that a lot of [01:25:50] them we know have been Christians for [01:25:51] 2,000 years They [01:25:55] have less of a right to the land than [01:25:58] someone whose ancestors, the only thing [01:26:00] we know about them is they lived in [01:26:02] Latafia or Poland. They're Eastern [01:26:04] European. How does that work? [01:26:06] >> They're Jewish by what definition? [01:26:09] >> They're Jewish by their [01:26:11] >> But how do we know they have any [01:26:12] connection? [01:26:12] >> They're Jewish by their faith. They're [01:26:13] Jewish by the connection to the [01:26:15] language. Jewish by the connection to [01:26:18] the Torah. But but but how do we know [01:26:20] that BB specifically BB's ancestors ever [01:26:23] lived here? How do we know that? [01:26:26] >> I I'm I'm not sure if I understand your [01:26:28] question. [01:26:29] >> How do we know if the prime minister of [01:26:31] Israel's ancestors ever lived? [01:26:34] >> Maybe I could ask you, how do we know [01:26:35] they didn't? [01:26:37] >> I mean, [01:26:38] >> well, it's on the basis of the claim [01:26:39] that they did that all kinds of things [01:26:42] happen. People are displaced. There's a [01:26:44] money flow. I mean, there's it's a big [01:26:46] question. A lot hangs on this. is not [01:26:48] some theoretical thing like, oh, you [01:26:50] know, did my grandparents do this or do [01:26:51] that? It's like, no, no, we have a right [01:26:52] to be here because my ancestors were [01:26:54] here. Okay, how do we know they were [01:26:55] here? [01:26:58] I I I'm totally unable to process what [01:27:02] you're trying to get at. It goes back, [01:27:04] do Jewish people have any land on this [01:27:09] planet that should be theirs? [01:27:11] >> I feel that way about all peoples. I [01:27:13] feel that way about Jewish peoples. I [01:27:15] feel that way about. [01:27:16] >> Okay. Then then you don't mind him [01:27:17] having his [01:27:17] >> Is there any Is there any country Let me [01:27:20] ask you this bluntly. Is there any [01:27:21] country that European peoples have a [01:27:24] right to exclusively? [01:27:28] >> I think they have attained their land [01:27:31] through conquest. I mean, let's ask [01:27:34] ourselves. [01:27:34] >> Have the Brits attain their land through [01:27:36] conquest? No, they've always been there. [01:27:37] >> The Romans, the Greeks have all Let's [01:27:39] speak. No, no, let's Well, you could [01:27:41] certainly say that here. The Romans the [01:27:42] Romans controlled this as you know and [01:27:44] they expelled all Jerusalem. [01:27:45] >> Amen. I don't want them to control it. [01:27:47] >> I'm anti-Roman. Okay, we're on the same [01:27:49] page. [01:27:49] >> Okay. [01:27:50] >> But my question is very simple. Is there [01:27:53] any European peoples that possesses the [01:27:55] same right to their land that the Jews, [01:27:58] including people whose ancestors lived [01:28:00] in Eastern Europe, possess here? The [01:28:03] Britain, we know, the British people, [01:28:04] the Scandinavian people, the Irish [01:28:07] people, their ancestors have been there [01:28:10] for thousands of years. provable through [01:28:12] genetic testing. Do they have a right to [01:28:15] their land exclusively? [01:28:16] >> Is anyone saying they don't? [01:28:18] >> Yes, of course. Yes. [01:28:20] >> No one will say they will. And I'm [01:28:22] asking you, do they have that right? [01:28:25] >> And I'm not sure what what that question [01:28:27] involves because no one is trying to [01:28:30] force them out of their land, of their [01:28:33] homes. But here, [01:28:34] >> hold on. Let me just Why won't you [01:28:36] answer that question? Does any [01:28:37] >> Because I just did. Oh, so the eur So [01:28:39] the Irish people have the same right to [01:28:42] their land that the Jews have the [01:28:44] biblical connection. [01:28:45] >> Okay. But I'm a I'm a Bible believer. [01:28:47] Okay. So that is [01:28:48] >> but it's also it's also a principle and [01:28:51] that is and you've said it 15 times. [01:28:53] >> Sometimes people have land because they [01:28:55] they were able to attain it through war. [01:28:57] They were able to obtain it when it was [01:28:59] challenged. [01:28:59] >> I understand that there's all kinds of [01:29:00] conflict but we can't say that about the [01:29:02] Irish. The [01:29:02] >> world borders change all the time. Not [01:29:05] actually the borders of the island of [01:29:07] England have not changed nor [01:29:11] >> but the island of Ireland. Those are [01:29:12] just two examples. So you've got the [01:29:14] indigenous people there. Do they have a [01:29:16] moral right to that as their homeland? [01:29:20] >> And I think they would probably say yes [01:29:22] we do because we have ancient history. [01:29:24] >> I think I've never thought about whether [01:29:26] >> now that I'm raising the question and [01:29:28] you've spent a lot of time thinking [01:29:29] about the right of the Jewish people to [01:29:30] their homeland. Do the Irish have the [01:29:32] same right to a homeland? [01:29:34] as long as they can defend it and as [01:29:36] long as they, you know, [01:29:37] >> as long as they can defend it. [01:29:38] >> But Tucker, here's the point. I'm [01:29:40] telling you. [01:29:41] >> Wait, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Now you [01:29:42] just flip C. You're the minister here. [01:29:44] >> Yeah. And I'm telling you, [01:29:45] >> as long as they can defend it, and if [01:29:47] they can't defend, [01:29:47] >> allowing me to tell you that I think [01:29:49] that what is very, very special here is [01:29:52] that there is a biblical as well as an [01:29:54] ethnic and a historical. So you can take [01:29:57] any one, but if you add them all [01:29:59] together, biblical, historical, and [01:30:01] ethnic, you have a very strong case that [01:30:04] the Jewish people are living in a land [01:30:06] that is indigenous to them, that has [01:30:08] been their historic homeland for 3,800 [01:30:10] years. [01:30:11] >> You can repeat it as [01:30:12] >> and you can also look in the [01:30:13] archaeology, the stones cry out. Okay, [01:30:15] >> you've been to the city of David, for [01:30:16] example [01:30:24] discovery in all of history because it's [01:30:26] it's stunning. And they still continue [01:30:28] to find things that date the Jewish [01:30:31] people to this land archaeologically for [01:30:34] 3,800 years. [01:30:35] >> We can we can date the Britain, the [01:30:38] British people to their land much [01:30:39] longer, much thousands of years longer. [01:30:41] Stonehenge is 3,000 years older than any [01:30:44] building built by the descendants of [01:30:47] Abram in this country. And so I just [01:30:50] it's fine. I'm not trying to invalidate [01:30:52] anyone's right. I'm just wanting you to [01:30:54] affirm that right, but it makes you [01:30:55] uncomfortable and you won't. And I don't [01:30:56] know why. [01:30:57] >> Because I've never honestly sat down and [01:30:59] and asked myself, are the lines around [01:31:03] the [01:31:03] >> It's so we know what the lines are. [01:31:05] >> I'm I'm saying, but are those lines [01:31:08] are those rooted in something other than [01:31:12] the historical connection? Well, great. [01:31:14] Then they should have it, [01:31:15] >> but that's [01:31:16] >> they have a right to have it. But then [01:31:17] you said if they can defend it, and if [01:31:18] they can't defend it, they lose the [01:31:19] right, [01:31:20] >> but I didn't say it was exclusive one or [01:31:22] the other. I think you're really going [01:31:23] off the [01:31:24] >> I just want to know if these principles [01:31:26] apply universally or if they only apply [01:31:28] to the people of Israel. And my answer [01:31:30] appears to be just the people of Israel. [01:31:31] They're the only ones with these rights. [01:31:32] And I just reject that. [01:31:34] >> I didn't say that. But I'm saying we are [01:31:36] talking about Israel. We're in Israel. [01:31:40] We're talking about Christian Zionism [01:31:41] because you've made some disparaging [01:31:43] statements about Christian Zionist. [01:31:45] You've apologized for him for which I [01:31:46] appreciate and now we're trying to [01:31:48] define Christian and Zionist. And it [01:31:51] seems like we've gone way way off of [01:31:53] that. [01:31:53] >> I'm trying to get as you suggested as a [01:31:55] former debater at the outset. I'm trying [01:31:56] to get to terms and a common [01:31:58] understanding of what the words mean [01:31:59] >> and the term [01:32:00] >> and I'm no closer to that than I than I [01:32:02] was when I began. [01:32:03] >> You're not closer to the term Christian. [01:32:04] What that means? [01:32:06] >> I think it's someone who follows Jesus. [01:32:07] And that's my next question. There are a [01:32:09] lot of Christians in the West Bank [01:32:12] >> and [01:32:13] um [01:32:15] there there were a fair amount of [01:32:17] Christians in Gaza and some of them have [01:32:19] been killed. [01:32:20] >> There were 5,000 in Gaza. [01:32:22] >> Yeah. [01:32:22] >> Yeah. [01:32:23] >> And church two different churches were [01:32:27] hit by the IDF. Christian Hospital was [01:32:30] hit seven times by the IDF. And I don't [01:32:32] understand [01:32:33] >> they were not hit seven times. They were [01:32:35] there were different I know. And one of [01:32:37] the times it was a rocket that was shot [01:32:39] by Hamas and all the news agencies [01:32:43] reported that the IDF shot the rocket. [01:32:45] They said [01:32:46] >> the IDF ever hit the hospital or the [01:32:47] churches? [01:32:48] >> They did accidentally because and they [01:32:51] apologized for it and it was very [01:32:53] unfortunate. But they also you got to [01:32:56] remember there were times Hamas often [01:32:58] hid caches of arms under hospitals. Were [01:33:02] you bothered by the fact that the IDF [01:33:05] hit Christians? [01:33:07] >> I'm bothered that anyone got killed in [01:33:09] Gaza. But you know why I'm bothered? [01:33:11] >> You're a Christian minister. [01:33:12] >> You can't say that the Christians are [01:33:14] Islamic extremists. [01:33:15] >> No, but I can say that side with the [01:33:17] Christians over the secular government [01:33:19] of Israel. [01:33:20] >> But I I would look at it even more [01:33:21] broadly. I would ask you this. Why was [01:33:24] there so much suffering and continues to [01:33:26] be suffering in Gaza? It's because [01:33:28] Hamas, which could have built a [01:33:31] Singapore, built a Haiti, they have a [01:33:33] land mass the size of Las Vegas, they [01:33:36] built tunnels underneath [01:33:39] that are larger than the London [01:33:40] Underground, over 500 miles of tunnels. [01:33:42] They didn't build it to move people from [01:33:44] one hospital to the other, one [01:33:46] marketplace to the other, but to hide [01:33:48] terrorist, to hide weaponry. And on [01:33:50] October the 7th, they went over there [01:33:52] and they massacred, 1200 civilians. [01:33:54] massacred, mutilated, humiliated them. [01:33:58] >> You're never going to get me to defend [01:33:59] Hamas. Sorry. [01:34:00] >> Please don't. [01:34:01] >> I'm not going to. But I'm telling you, [01:34:03] >> I'm appalled by it. How many civilians [01:34:05] have been killed by the IDF in Gaza? [01:34:07] >> We don't know. You know why? We don't [01:34:08] know. [01:34:09] >> What's your guess? [01:34:10] >> Well, the only numbers we have come from [01:34:12] this dubious entity called the Gaza [01:34:14] Health Ministry. You know who that is? [01:34:15] >> Well, why does Israel have a have a some [01:34:19] kind of count on it? [01:34:20] >> We also know that a lot of the people [01:34:22] who were killed were in fact warriors. [01:34:23] Sadly, [01:34:24] >> how many kids were killed? [01:34:25] >> We don't know. [01:34:27] >> What's your guess? [01:34:28] >> It I don't know. I'm I'm sure it was [01:34:30] thousands. And it's thousands kids were [01:34:33] killed. [01:34:34] >> Some of the kids who were killed had [01:34:35] been recruited to be in the military. [01:34:39] >> Kids as young as 14 years old. [01:34:42] >> Kids, [01:34:43] >> do do you hear yourself? I wonder. [01:34:45] >> I just said that there were kids as [01:34:47] young as 14 that were recruited to be [01:34:48] Hamas soldiers who were given arms. How [01:34:52] do you feel about the kids being killed? [01:34:53] >> I think it's horrible. [01:34:55] >> You know what I also think is horrible? [01:34:56] I think it's horrible that,200 people [01:34:58] were slaughtered by people across the [01:35:00] border and 252 people were taken [01:35:03] hostage. 48 of the,200 were Americans. [01:35:07] >> And then whenas [01:35:09] when Hamas [01:35:10] >> could have ended this on October the 8th [01:35:12] and given all the hostages up, they [01:35:14] didn't, [01:35:15] >> leaving no choice. [01:35:16] >> You're never going to get me to defend [01:35:18] Hamas. I'm not pro Hamas. I'm totally [01:35:21] opposed to slaughtering innocents, [01:35:22] whether Hamas does it or whether the [01:35:24] government of Israel does it in much [01:35:26] larger numbers. And the reason I'm [01:35:28] opposed to it is because I'm a Christian [01:35:30] and I believe that all souls are created [01:35:32] by God. [01:35:33] >> I did don't do not disagree with that [01:35:35] wholeheartedly, but [01:35:36] >> but I said how many children have been [01:35:38] warrior thing period and we don't know. [01:35:41] We know that a lot of the numbers [01:35:44] >> were reported by [01:35:45] >> You said you think thousands of children [01:35:46] have been killed. [01:35:47] >> Yeah. And a lot of times, you know why [01:35:48] they got killed? Because Hamas would [01:35:50] gather up the children [01:35:52] >> and put them in the targets. Do you know [01:35:55] what Israel does? They send page [01:35:58] messages and they send texts to every [01:36:01] cell phone in Gaza and they say, "We're [01:36:03] going to hit this particular target." [01:36:05] They drop leaflets and they announce [01:36:07] where they're going to hit. Nobody does [01:36:09] that. [01:36:10] >> The US doesn't do that. [01:36:11] >> Israel does that in order to prevent, [01:36:14] let me finish this. They do this in [01:36:16] order to prevent civilian casualties. [01:36:19] What Hamas does, they say, "Oh, this is [01:36:22] the target." And by gunpoint, they push [01:36:25] people into those various places. And [01:36:28] then when people get killed, they say, [01:36:30] "Look, Israel just slaughtered these [01:36:31] people." Even though it was Hamas who [01:36:33] moved them into harm's way, knowing that [01:36:36] it was going to put them in a place of [01:36:38] danger and death and destruction. And [01:36:41] they do that because they don't care. [01:36:43] You say you care about life. I care [01:36:45] about life. [01:36:46] >> It's interesting. [01:36:47] >> They don't care about life. I'm [01:36:49] >> not saying that Hamas does. You're never [01:36:50] going to get me to defend Hamas. I'm I'm [01:36:52] anti-Hamas. [01:36:53] >> You said that three times and I I [01:36:54] believe it. [01:36:55] >> Your dig at the United States is very [01:36:57] revealing. [01:36:58] >> Why is it revealing? [01:36:59] >> Because your priorities are very clear. [01:37:01] >> No, no, no. [01:37:02] >> Yes, they are. [01:37:03] >> Yes, they are. And as an American, [01:37:04] permit me a moment, [01:37:06] >> okay, [01:37:06] >> of outrage [01:37:07] >> because I said [01:37:10] >> many civilians have been killed. And you [01:37:12] said right in the middle of your [01:37:14] elaborate defense of the IDF's killing [01:37:16] of civilians, including children, you [01:37:18] said they do a better job than the [01:37:20] United States does. That's my country [01:37:21] and my government. [01:37:23] >> What flag am I wearing here? [01:37:25] >> Well, I I'm asking why is it [01:37:27] >> What flag am I wearing? [01:37:28] >> Well, that's of course my flag as well. [01:37:31] >> And it's my flag. It's who I serve. [01:37:32] >> So why the dig at the United States in [01:37:34] the middle? [01:37:34] >> It's not a dig at them. No, no, no, no. [01:37:36] You You've totally misrepresented. [01:37:38] >> What did you mean by that? I did not [01:37:39] take a dig at the US. What I'm saying is [01:37:42] >> so the IDF is more humane than the US. [01:37:43] >> I'm saying military. [01:37:45] >> I'm just saying that Israel takes steps [01:37:47] that we don't take and no other country [01:37:49] that I'm aware of takes to try to [01:37:51] prevent because no matter what Israel [01:37:53] does, they're going to get accused of [01:37:55] genocide. [01:37:56] >> That may be right. And I'm um [01:37:58] >> I'm just telling you that they [01:37:59] >> But then let me ask you on that [01:38:00] question. [01:38:01] You know I that's such a politically [01:38:02] loaded [01:38:02] >> but but I resent the idea that you think [01:38:04] that I'm not loyal to the US. [01:38:07] Look, I'm not say you're not loyal. I'm [01:38:09] merely noting what you just said, which [01:38:11] was that the IDF takes greater pains [01:38:14] than the US, our military does to spare [01:38:17] civilian lives. And I guess my question [01:38:19] is when was the last time the US [01:38:22] military killed this many civilians? Do [01:38:25] you know? Well, it could have been [01:38:27] Nagasaki, Hiroshima, could have been uh [01:38:30] Iraq, Afghanistan. [01:38:32] We don't know the full number. [01:38:33] >> And I think most Christians would say [01:38:35] all of those things were atrocities [01:38:36] because innocents were killed in large [01:38:38] numbers. And we we don't believe in [01:38:39] that. And [01:38:42] so that's not really a defense, is it? [01:38:44] >> It's a horrible thing, Tucker. And there [01:38:46] are people who end up unfortunately [01:38:49] being killed that shouldn't have been. I [01:38:51] I would tell you that I wish that none [01:38:53] of those people in Gaza had been killed [01:38:56] after October the 8th. Well, I say not [01:38:58] none of them. I'm glad Muhammad Sinir [01:39:00] was killed. I'm glad that some of those [01:39:02] warriors, the people who masterminded [01:39:03] and carried out the atrocities, [01:39:05] >> 14year-old Hamas operatives, how do you [01:39:07] feel about their deaths? [01:39:08] >> If they participated in that, then God [01:39:12] help them. I'm telling you, I don't know [01:39:15] that they were 14 years. No, but I'm [01:39:17] telling you that when someone commits [01:39:19] the acts of atrocity and then they hold [01:39:22] hostages, if these were your children [01:39:24] being held hostage in Gaza, what would [01:39:26] you do to get them out? [01:39:27] >> I wouldn't want to kill 14-year-olds. [01:39:28] I'll tell you that. [01:39:29] >> Let me ask you something. Would you do [01:39:31] whatever it took to get your kids back [01:39:32] if they were being tortured, raped, [01:39:34] starving? [01:39:34] >> I would not kill children, period. [01:39:36] >> Well, I'm just telling you. [01:39:37] >> And I would never make excuses for [01:39:39] killing children either. [01:39:40] >> And I'm not talking about targeting [01:39:42] children. And I'm talking about [01:39:43] >> you told me that 14-year-olds deserve to [01:39:45] die because they're working for him. I'm [01:39:46] telling you. [01:39:47] >> My question is, can you hear yourself? [01:39:49] >> I do hear myself. [01:39:50] >> So, do you think a 14-year-old child has [01:39:51] agency? Do you think that he deserves to [01:39:54] die because he's being used by adults? [01:39:55] Isn't his death a crushing? [01:39:57] >> If he's holding a gun and he's pointing [01:39:59] it at someone who's trying to save a [01:40:01] hostage and the only way to save that [01:40:05] hostage, I'm telling you, war is a [01:40:07] horrible thing. It's a horrible thing. [01:40:09] and a lot of innocent. [01:40:10] >> I think I'm the one who thinks war is a [01:40:11] horrible thing. [01:40:12] >> No, no, no, no. I think what you don't [01:40:14] >> I'm trying to explain how horrible it is [01:40:15] and you're saying that the 14-year-old [01:40:16] deserve to die. We don't execute [01:40:18] 14-year-old putting words in my mouth [01:40:20] that I didn't I don't know what you're [01:40:21] saying. You never said deserve to die. [01:40:24] >> I say there are people who die. That is [01:40:26] unfortunate. [01:40:27] >> Okay. But I'm saying that you are not [01:40:29] giving Israel credit for having done [01:40:31] everything they possibly could to a [01:40:34] level that quite frankly in urban [01:40:35] warfare there has never been a war [01:40:38] criticize Israel but it's a foreign [01:40:39] country and I would much rather [01:40:41] criticize a foreign country than my own. [01:40:43] >> Feel free to do that. They can handle [01:40:44] it. [01:40:44] >> You pivoted against [01:40:46] >> our country Israel's done a better job [01:40:48] than our military has. I I simply gave [01:40:51] you the illustration and I helped you [01:40:53] understand that Israel goes to links [01:40:56] that no other country, including ours, [01:40:58] goes to in the middle of an urban war. [01:41:01] And yet, Israel ended up with fewer [01:41:05] civilian deaths in an urban war than any [01:41:08] urban war of record. [01:41:09] >> You said you didn't know how many [01:41:10] civilian deaths there were. So, how can [01:41:12] you say that? [01:41:12] >> If you took Gaza's numbers, Hamas's [01:41:15] numbers, [01:41:15] >> you said you would know what the numbers [01:41:17] are. You just told me that. How can you [01:41:18] say it's a lower number? [01:41:20] >> But if you took the numbers that they [01:41:21] reported, which is like 50,000, 24 or [01:41:24] 25,000 of those were actual warriors. [01:41:26] How many civilians if you if you range [01:41:29] from 120 to 78? Those ones I just read. [01:41:33] I don't know if that's real. I don't [01:41:34] know either. I'm asking you. [01:41:36] >> Yeah. And I'm telling you those numbers [01:41:38] I've not heard, have not read. The [01:41:40] numbers that I think are more reportable [01:41:42] are somewhere in the 60,000 range. [01:41:44] >> Where do those come from? from the Gaza [01:41:47] Health Ministry. [01:41:48] >> Those are valid numbers. [01:41:49] >> I think they are. I don't think that [01:41:51] they're accurate, but I'm saying let's [01:41:53] just [01:41:53] >> You're saying they're inaccurate, but [01:41:54] they prove that Israel's done doing a [01:41:56] great job. [01:41:56] >> Let's assume that the most [01:41:59] uh widespread numbers, the largest [01:42:01] numbers that have been reported out of [01:42:03] Gaza by Hamas. [01:42:04] >> Yes. [01:42:04] >> Let's assume they're true. That's what [01:42:07] I'm saying. I'm not saying they are [01:42:09] true, but assume they're true. Let's [01:42:10] just take them at their word. Then you [01:42:13] still have a lower number of civilians [01:42:17] killed than in any urban warfare [01:42:19] environment in modern history. Fact. [01:42:22] >> Is that a fact? [01:42:23] >> Yes. [01:42:23] >> What are you comparing it to? [01:42:26] >> To any urban war. [01:42:28] >> Name one. [01:42:29] >> Iraq. [01:42:30] >> Where in Afghanistan? [01:42:31] >> Where in Iraq? Where in Afghanistan? [01:42:32] There aren't many urban areas in [01:42:33] Afghanistan. I don't think there was any [01:42:34] fighting in urban areas in Afghanistan. [01:42:36] >> Kbble. [01:42:37] >> I don't know. Was there was there were [01:42:38] there pitch battles in Kbble over long [01:42:40] periods of time? I I don't [01:42:41] >> 20 years [01:42:42] >> in Kabell. I don't think [01:42:43] >> throughout all of Afghanistan. [01:42:44] >> But what So what were those rates [01:42:48] >> you're talking about? What are the rates [01:42:49] there? [01:42:50] >> You just [01:42:50] >> the number of people who were killed. [01:42:52] >> Uhhuh. [01:42:53] >> Into the tens of thousands. I I'm I'm [01:42:56] asking you to [01:42:57] >> I don't know the answer. I have never [01:42:58] heard of any of this. You brought it up. [01:43:00] You said the IDF has killed a lower [01:43:03] proportion of civilians in urban warfare [01:43:06] than in any urban conflict in modern [01:43:08] history. I'd never heard that before. I [01:43:10] don't know what your what are the [01:43:11] controls for that. And you said, well, [01:43:13] the US military killed more civilians. [01:43:16] >> Would you agree that the real tragedy [01:43:18] was that Hamas continued to force this [01:43:20] war? [01:43:21] >> Hold on. You just once again said that [01:43:23] the IDF is more humane than the United [01:43:25] States military. You just said that. You [01:43:28] said in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US [01:43:30] military killed more civilians than the [01:43:32] IDF did in Gaza. You just told me. I [01:43:34] never heard that before. And my question [01:43:36] is, how do you know that? What are those [01:43:38] numbers? [01:43:38] >> And I'm trying to explain to you that [01:43:40] there were extraordinary efforts to keep [01:43:44] the [01:43:44] >> numbers to you. [01:43:46] >> I think they were tens of thousands. [01:43:47] I'll get them for you. [01:43:49] >> Well, you brought it up. That's the only [01:43:50] reason I'm pushing it. [01:43:51] >> But you I'm wearing a flag. I've worked [01:43:53] for a country and you pretended or [01:43:56] alleged that somehow I'm not loyal to [01:43:58] this and that I'm criticizing my own [01:44:00] country. [01:44:00] >> A better job than the US military in [01:44:03] Iraq and Afghanistan. And I said, "What [01:44:05] are the numbers?" and you said, "I don't [01:44:07] know." So, on what basis are you making [01:44:10] the claim that the IDF in Gaza spared [01:44:13] more civilians than the US Army and [01:44:15] Marine Corps did in Afghanistan and [01:44:18] Iraq? Why are you saying that? Like, on [01:44:20] what basis are you saying that? from the [01:44:22] conversations that I've had with the [01:44:24] people who fought there and I don't have [01:44:26] the exact numbers for you. But what I'm [01:44:28] trying to help you to understand, and I [01:44:30] don't think you're willing to go there, [01:44:32] is that there was no desire to kill [01:44:36] people indiscriminately in Gaza. I don't [01:44:38] think there was any desire to kill [01:44:39] people indiscriminately in Iraq, [01:44:41] Afghanistan. [01:44:43] >> Let me just say I think on and I know a [01:44:44] bunch of people serve in the IDF and I [01:44:46] don't believe your average IDF soldier [01:44:48] wants to kill innocents. I just want to [01:44:49] be really clear about that. I don't [01:44:51] think most soldiers want to do that. [01:44:52] >> I think a lot of them in our country, in [01:44:55] Israel, wind up doing that because [01:44:57] that's what war is about and it really [01:44:59] hurts them. I know people who've done it [01:45:00] personally, know them really well and it [01:45:02] like wrecks their lives. [01:45:03] >> So, but I don't think your average [01:45:04] soldier wants that in this country or [01:45:06] any other. The leadership is a different [01:45:08] question and I want to refer you very [01:45:10] specifically to a number of speeches the [01:45:12] prime minister, your friend Benjamin [01:45:13] Netanyahu gave in the aftermath of [01:45:15] October 7th, including one in November [01:45:18] of that year when he referred to [01:45:20] Amalcch. Now Amalecch is a reference, a [01:45:24] biblical reference. So of course you'll [01:45:25] be very familiar with that. The [01:45:27] Amalachites were a tribe described [01:45:30] throughout the Bible, particularly in 1 [01:45:31] Samuel, that obstructed the Jews as they [01:45:34] fled Egypt. And God [01:45:38] tells Samuel to give the instructions to [01:45:41] Saul to kill the Amalachites. [01:45:45] And he says, and I'm sure you remember [01:45:47] this. This is in 1st Samuel 15. Of [01:45:49] course, I'm sure I know you know it. He [01:45:51] says, "Kill the men, kill the women, [01:45:54] kill the children, kill the infants, [01:45:57] kill the donkeys, kill the camels, kill [01:46:00] everything." And Saul spares the king [01:46:05] and he spares the animals. And for that [01:46:09] he l he is punished by God. That is [01:46:12] genocide. God is calling for genocide of [01:46:15] the Amalachites of Amalcch. And the [01:46:18] prime minister of Israel at least once, [01:46:20] I believe on other occasions described [01:46:23] the Palestinians in Gaza as Amalcch. [01:46:25] That's calling for genocide. And you [01:46:27] know that. [01:46:29] I totally disagree. Tell me then what it [01:46:31] means because [01:46:32] >> to say that Israel was attempting to [01:46:35] commit genocide. First of all, that's [01:46:37] simply not true. [01:46:38] >> I'm not saying I'm saying what is the [01:46:39] prime minister talking about? Why would [01:46:40] he refer to the Palestinians as Amalcch? [01:46:42] What is [01:46:43] >> You would have to ask him. I don't know. [01:46:44] I know what I know what Amalecch is. I [01:46:47] do understand first Samuel 16. I get all [01:46:49] that. [01:46:50] >> 1 Samuel 15, [01:46:52] >> but I do understand very and it's widely [01:46:54] known. So if you say our enemy is [01:46:57] Amalcch and we are proceeding on the [01:46:59] basis of God's commands to us, you are [01:47:02] calling for genocide. Tell me how I'm [01:47:04] missing something. [01:47:05] >> Because if Israel wanted to commit [01:47:06] genocide, they could have done it in two [01:47:07] and a half hours. [01:47:08] >> We can debate what's happened in Gaza. [01:47:10] I'm asking you why the leader of this [01:47:12] country [01:47:13] >> ask him. [01:47:14] >> Well, what do you think? [01:47:15] >> I don't know. [01:47:16] >> Does that bother you at all, [01:47:18] >> people? I I I don't know what he meant. [01:47:21] I don't know if it was an illustrative [01:47:23] metaphor. I think what he was saying was [01:47:26] that we're not going to let anything [01:47:28] keep us from getting our hostages back. [01:47:30] Their sons and their daughters who are [01:47:32] being brutalized, raped, tortured, [01:47:34] starved, beaten. [01:47:36] >> Come on, Mr. Master. [01:47:36] >> No, I there are many examples of justice [01:47:39] in the Bible when [01:47:41] >> But there are accused of genocide [01:47:43] regularly. [01:47:43] >> I'm not accusing Israel of anything. I'm [01:47:46] saying that the prime minister of Israel [01:47:48] >> described the Palestinians attempted to [01:47:51] do genocide. [01:47:52] I'm asking why of all the references in [01:47:55] the Bible and there are many to justice [01:47:59] and there are many to reconciliation [01:48:00] that is a reference to genocide as you [01:48:02] know killing every man woman child and [01:48:06] infant I'm quoting [01:48:07] >> and their animals wiping them from the [01:48:10] earth and when they don't do that [01:48:11] they're punished [01:48:14] when you say that at the outset of a war [01:48:17] and then you wind up with massive [01:48:19] civilian casualties maybe not as big as [01:48:21] they were in Iraq [01:48:23] Then I have to ask you what what is [01:48:25] that? And is that kind of thinking [01:48:27] consistent with Western values and with [01:48:29] Christianity? Do we as Christians [01:48:31] believe it's okay to kill people's [01:48:33] children? [01:48:34] >> No, we don't. And neither do the [01:48:36] Israelis because they didn't go after [01:48:38] their children. If they'd wanted to kill [01:48:40] all their children, Tucker, they've got [01:48:42] the military capacity. They could have [01:48:44] done it in less than a day. [01:48:45] >> I've heard you say that. I mean, I guess [01:48:47] they could have done them. Okay, but why [01:48:48] didn't they why didn't they? I think [01:48:50] there are a lot of decent people in [01:48:51] Israel who don't want that. But I'm [01:48:52] talking [01:48:53] >> Do you think that the prime minister [01:48:54] wanted to wipe out every single person [01:48:56] in Gaza? Do you asking you what you [01:48:58] think is the US representative of our [01:49:00] government? [01:49:01] >> I I don't think that that's what he [01:49:03] wanted to do because why are you [01:49:05] referring [01:49:05] >> I never had to ask him that. [01:49:07] >> Why? [01:49:08] >> Because I never saw any evidence any [01:49:11] evidence that Israel tried to wipe out [01:49:13] every single person. I just gave you [01:49:16] examples that they tried to save [01:49:18] civilian lives. Not. By the way, I'm [01:49:20] not, as I've said, and I mean this. I I [01:49:23] I think most soldiers in most armies, [01:49:26] including the Israel Defense Force, [01:49:28] don't want to kill civilians. I just [01:49:29] don't believe that. I think there are [01:49:30] some lunatics. [01:49:31] >> Can I ask you something? [01:49:32] >> Yes. [01:49:33] >> You platformed a guy. You had him on [01:49:34] your show, Tony Aguilar. [01:49:36] >> Don't platform anyone. I [01:49:37] >> You interviewed [01:49:38] >> Not a liberal, so I don't platform [01:49:39] people. [01:49:40] >> Okay. You you interviewed Tony Aguilar [01:49:44] >> who claimed that IDF soldiers killed a [01:49:49] little boy in his presence. [01:49:50] >> Uhhuh. [01:49:51] >> That didn't happen. [01:49:52] >> Okay. [01:49:52] >> It did not happen. [01:49:54] >> Let me give you the story. [01:49:55] >> I don't know if you know whether it [01:49:57] happened or not. [01:49:57] >> Well, I can tell you why I know it [01:49:59] didn't happen. [01:50:00] >> Because we found that little boy less [01:50:02] than a week later. [01:50:03] >> All right. [01:50:03] >> I was involved, heavily involved in [01:50:06] helping to extricate him from Gaza. Four [01:50:09] different countries were involved in [01:50:11] getting he and his mother to safety. Get [01:50:13] them out of there. Tony Aguilar is a [01:50:15] liar. [01:50:16] >> Okay. [01:50:16] >> Tony Aguilar claimed that he saw an IDF [01:50:20] soldier shoot the little boy. He was [01:50:23] fired from the GHF for cause and he [01:50:28] begged for his job back and they [01:50:29] wouldn't give it back because they [01:50:30] didn't want him. And he told them that [01:50:32] if they didn't give his job back that he [01:50:34] would burn him down. [01:50:36] >> Okay. [01:50:37] >> So he goes out. No, let me finish this [01:50:38] because it's important for you to [01:50:39] understand, [01:50:40] >> right? [01:50:41] >> So, this guy then goes out and makes up [01:50:44] this story that he witnessed IDF [01:50:46] soldiers shooting a little boy. [01:50:48] >> I don't know that he made it up. He [01:50:49] seemed to believe it to me. It's [01:50:51] possible he's wrong. I've been wrong [01:50:52] many times. [01:50:53] >> Well, this is a little bit more than [01:50:55] just missing a fact. He claimed to be an [01:50:57] eyewitness to the murder of a little [01:50:59] boy. [01:51:00] >> A little boy that a week later we found. [01:51:03] >> And you're sure it's the same little [01:51:04] boy? [01:51:04] >> We're absolutely sure. [01:51:05] >> How do you know that? because we have [01:51:07] pictures of him. We had descriptions of [01:51:10] him, we know his name, we know his [01:51:13] mother. [01:51:13] >> Okay, [01:51:14] >> he was extricated out of Gaza. It was a [01:51:16] very delicate situation to get him out [01:51:18] because if Hamas had found out that he [01:51:19] was still alive, they would have killed [01:51:20] him in order to validate Aguiler's [01:51:23] story. [01:51:23] >> How do you know that? [01:51:24] >> So, he gets out. [01:51:25] >> How do you know Hamas would have killed [01:51:26] him? [01:51:27] >> Why wouldn't they? Wouldn't they have [01:51:28] wanted to kill him? Because that way [01:51:30] they could have said that this story was [01:51:31] true that Aguilar. I'm just telling you [01:51:33] that what you're saying is true. and I [01:51:35] have no basis of knowing. I'm really [01:51:37] glad cuz I don't want little kids to get [01:51:39] killed, even 14-year-olds. Okay, [01:51:41] >> you shouldn't want anyone to get. [01:51:42] >> But let me ask you, is it true he also [01:51:43] made the claim and he had audio of it um [01:51:46] and video too that uh US contractors [01:51:51] were using live ammunition [01:51:55] to disperse crowds. And he had video of [01:51:57] that. Do you know if is did he make up [01:51:58] that video? There were times, here's [01:52:01] what happened. Crowds would come toward [01:52:04] the sites. They were given verbal [01:52:05] warnings and then they were given [01:52:08] additional verbal warnings and they were [01:52:10] shots were fired either in the air [01:52:12] sometimes in the ground and if they [01:52:14] continue to come and threaten there were [01:52:17] times when there were people who were uh [01:52:20] engaged in in firefights that happened. [01:52:23] >> Oh, they were armed. [01:52:24] >> Sometimes they were [01:52:25] >> they were can you do you know of [01:52:27] specific instances where they were [01:52:28] armed? [01:52:29] >> I can probably get you some specific [01:52:31] information about that. [01:52:32] >> I think I know the answer to I don't [01:52:33] think there's any evidence at all that [01:52:35] they were. [01:52:35] >> But I also know that [01:52:36] >> Are you okay with using live ammunition [01:52:40] um at aid distribution sites for [01:52:42] families, women, and children? [01:52:43] >> Well, very rarely did this happen here. [01:52:45] >> How about Are you okay with that? [01:52:47] >> No. I tell you what, I'm not okay. No, [01:52:49] no, no. I think you are so trying to put [01:52:51] words in my mouth. You You said that [01:52:53] they were firing back, but then there's [01:52:55] no evidence that they weren't. On a [01:52:56] Sunday afternoon, I can remember when [01:52:58] there was widespread reports on BBC, [01:53:00] CNN, and the New York Times, and they [01:53:02] said that 27 people were killed at a [01:53:04] feeding site. We had video extensively [01:53:06] over that site. Not one single person, [01:53:09] not only were they not shot, nobody was [01:53:11] shot at. There was not one bit of [01:53:13] violence that happened at that feeding [01:53:15] site. [01:53:15] >> You got me to defend BBC. [01:53:17] >> Not going to do that. It's like [01:53:19] defending Hamas. I I agree with you. I I [01:53:21] don't believe anything I see in the [01:53:22] media. It's just that it's really [01:53:24] simple. If people are using, and these [01:53:26] were American contractors, by the way, [01:53:28] these are not Israelis that I'm aware [01:53:29] of. [01:53:30] >> American contractors run by some crypto [01:53:33] minister or something was running the [01:53:34] group. [01:53:35] >> Um, if they're using live ammunition at [01:53:38] an aid distribution site, that strikes [01:53:40] me as totally unacceptable. [01:53:42] >> They were not firing. [01:53:44] >> Does it seem acceptable to you? [01:53:46] >> They were not firing at people got [01:53:47] killed. There's a way. [01:53:49] >> Some of those people got killed because [01:53:51] Hamas were trying to keep them from [01:53:52] getting to the aid distribution sites [01:53:54] because Hamas was controlling the food. [01:53:56] Hamas made $500 million selling the food [01:53:59] that was supposed to be given away for [01:54:01] free. And what they were trying to do is [01:54:04] to keep people from going to the sites [01:54:05] where they were getting food for free. [01:54:07] When we set GHF up, the first thing that [01:54:11] happened I know, but I'm telling you, [01:54:12] the first thing that people said was, [01:54:14] "Wow, this is the first time we've had [01:54:15] food that we got for free." Is it okay [01:54:17] to shoot unarmed people? [01:54:18] >> I just told you it wasn't. [01:54:20] >> That's awful. Yeah, [01:54:21] >> it's awful. [01:54:21] >> Of course it's awful. [01:54:22] >> Um, are all lives equal, do you think? [01:54:25] >> Of course they are. [01:54:26] >> So, the death of a Palestinian is every [01:54:28] bit as important, significant as the [01:54:31] death of Islam. [01:54:32] >> Why wouldn't it be? Of course it is. I [01:54:33] don't know. Of course. [01:54:34] >> There's no such thing as a human soul [01:54:36] that God made that is less valuable than [01:54:39] another. That I'm pro-life. Me, too. [01:54:41] >> So, I believe that every life has [01:54:42] intrinsic worth and value. There's no [01:54:44] such thing as a worthless or a [01:54:46] completely disposable life. That's what [01:54:48] makes me pro-life. Tucker, [01:54:50] >> I totally agree. [01:54:51] >> And I believe that from the conception [01:54:53] until the end of natural life. [01:54:55] >> Why I would never say when confronted [01:54:57] with the death of children, war is [01:54:59] terrible because it minimizes the deaths [01:55:01] of those children. It's awful. And [01:55:03] >> I don't think it minimizes. I think it [01:55:05] it is outrageous. It's a terrible thing. [01:55:08] I wish we never had war. Why do we have [01:55:10] war? [01:55:11] >> We're about to have one with Iran, it [01:55:12] looks like. How many Americans do you [01:55:14] think will die in that war? [01:55:16] >> I hope none. None died last year when we [01:55:18] uh participated in the 12-day war. Not [01:55:21] one. You said 20,000 would die and they [01:55:23] didn't. [01:55:24] >> I said could and they could have and and [01:55:26] they could die now. And that's a real [01:55:27] risk. [01:55:28] >> How many boots on the ground do you [01:55:29] think the US has supplied for Israel [01:55:31] over the course of its life? [01:55:34] >> How many times have we put soldiers on [01:55:35] the ground for Israel? [01:55:36] >> Well, we had the Iraq war um which was [01:55:39] for Israel for Israel. [01:55:41] >> How was it for us? Well, because it was [01:55:43] a retribution against 9/11. Now, was it [01:55:45] the best idea? [01:55:46] >> Was Was Iraq involved in 911? [01:55:49] >> Our government thought so. [01:55:51] >> Why are 911 documents still classified? [01:55:54] >> I have no idea. [01:55:54] >> Should they be unclassified? [01:55:56] >> I think so. [01:55:56] >> All of them, right? [01:55:57] >> I have no problem with that. [01:55:59] >> Me, too. [01:55:59] >> I like transparency. I like sunlight. [01:56:01] >> I do. I hope you'll call for that. [01:56:02] >> I like free press. I like free speech. [01:56:04] >> I totally agree. [01:56:05] >> I really I like all of that. But if no [01:56:07] if there was no connect I've never seen [01:56:09] I'm open to anything but I've never seen [01:56:10] any connection between the government of [01:56:13] Saddam Hussein the secular ba'ist [01:56:14] government of Saddam Hussein and the [01:56:16] terror attacks of 9/11. [01:56:18] >> I don't know that there were I don't [01:56:19] know [01:56:20] >> so so I'm not sure but I don't know how [01:56:22] why is that Israel's fault. [01:56:24] >> Well Benjamin Netanyahu now prime [01:56:26] minister of course exerted lots of [01:56:29] pressure openly on the US government to [01:56:31] take out to regime change the Saddam [01:56:33] government. I was there. was in [01:56:34] Washington and um and they complied. I [01:56:38] don't think there's any way to read it. [01:56:39] I don't [01:56:40] >> Do you think Israel leads the US and [01:56:43] pushes them and tells them what to do? [01:56:46] >> Not on everything, of course, but what I [01:56:48] think, let me be specific. I think the [01:56:50] uh Israeli government strongly pushed [01:56:52] the United States to take out Saddam [01:56:55] Hussein. There's no question about that. [01:56:57] I think the Israeli government right now [01:56:59] on BB Netanyahu, who's been in the White [01:57:01] House seven times in one year. Yeah. [01:57:03] >> Pushing for uh regime change in Iran. I [01:57:07] think they're on the verge of convincing [01:57:08] this administration to affect regime [01:57:12] change. [01:57:12] >> You think the president is weak and is [01:57:14] being pushed? [01:57:15] >> I'm not saying that. I know. Well, I [01:57:16] know. I know the president's being [01:57:17] pushed. Why do you think a foreign [01:57:19] leader was in the White House seven [01:57:20] times in one year? Are you okay with [01:57:22] that? That's a lie. [01:57:24] >> You know, Israel is not just a friend or [01:57:26] an ally. It is a real partner. We have [01:57:28] an incredible relationship with Israel [01:57:30] in intelligence and in military, in [01:57:34] culture, in values. You know, to to be [01:57:38] shocked that the Israeli prime minister [01:57:40] would have that many meetings, it's a [01:57:42] lot. But I I want to ask you the [01:57:44] question, do you think President Trump [01:57:47] is weak enough to let BB Netanyahu push [01:57:50] him into something that he doesn't want [01:57:51] to do? [01:57:52] >> I don't. Look, I think, and I don't [01:57:54] know, of course, the answer to every [01:57:55] question, including this one, but I [01:57:58] think the president, President Trump [01:57:59] really doesn't like nuclear [01:58:01] proliferation, and I don't think he [01:58:03] wants Iran to have a bomb. I think he [01:58:05] really sincerely means [01:58:05] >> I hope you don't want them to have a [01:58:07] bomb. [01:58:08] >> Want them to have a bomb? It [01:58:10] >> I don't want anyone to have a bomb, [01:58:11] including Israel. I don't know why we're [01:58:12] okay with Israel having nuclear weapons. [01:58:14] I'm not I'm not okay with Pakistan [01:58:16] having them. I'm not okay with Saudi [01:58:18] having them. Israel's nuclear weapons [01:58:21] were created, of course, with nuclear [01:58:23] material stolen from the United States, [01:58:25] from a nuclear plant in Pennsylvania. As [01:58:26] I know, you know, I'm opposed to all of [01:58:28] it. I don't like nuclear weapons. It's [01:58:30] mass murder as far as I'm concerned. So, [01:58:32] no, I don't want Iran to have a bomb, [01:58:34] obviously. [01:58:35] The question is, what are the potential [01:58:38] costs? And you have to factor that into [01:58:40] any decision. And [01:58:41] >> and what are the costs if they were to [01:58:43] get a nuclear bomb? They've said for 47 [01:58:46] years, death to America. Well, I don't [01:58:48] think they target us. [01:58:49] >> I don't think is [01:58:49] >> they targeted President Trump [01:58:51] specifically. [01:58:52] >> Yeah. They hired a person [01:58:55] Iran BBC and Hamas not defending him. [01:58:58] >> Good. [01:58:58] >> All I'm saying, we're in agreement on [01:59:00] that. [01:59:00] >> I want our country is not thriving [01:59:03] >> and we're spending, you know, tens and [01:59:05] tens and tens of billions of dollars [01:59:07] over time defending Israel and helping [01:59:10] it prosecute all. [01:59:11] >> You know where that money goes? [01:59:12] >> Goes to a lot of places. [01:59:13] >> But but let's let's talk about that a [01:59:15] minute. $3.8 8 billion a year. That [01:59:18] money goes right back to the US to [01:59:20] purchase weapon systems. For example, [01:59:23] every round of ammo that the IDF shoots [01:59:25] is manufactured just outside where I [01:59:28] live in Little Rock, Arkansas. [01:59:29] >> Mhm. [01:59:30] >> The components, a lot of them for the [01:59:33] Iron Dome and the A3 missile defense [01:59:35] systems. [01:59:35] >> Yeah. [01:59:36] >> Are manufactured near Camden, Arkansas, [01:59:38] >> which needs it. By the way, Camden's [01:59:40] economically depressed. You know the [01:59:41] area. [01:59:42] >> I do. And there are thousands and [01:59:44] thousands of American jobs. And there [01:59:46] are billions and billions of dollars of [01:59:51] expenditures that Israel makes in the US [01:59:55] and buys the things that we [01:59:56] >> I know how defense contracting works. [01:59:58] I'm from Washington. No, I I know this. [02:00:00] I guess what I'm saying is America's not [02:00:02] thriving at all. And [02:00:04] >> you think it's Israel's fault? [02:00:05] >> I I don't think it's Israel's fault. [02:00:07] >> Okay, we're good. I I I think [02:00:08] >> I just think that what we're doing isn't [02:00:10] working at all. And America is not rich. [02:00:13] >> The president is doing some amazing [02:00:14] things to get us back on track. [02:00:16] >> Not attacking Trump. [02:00:16] >> Okay. [02:00:17] >> I'm merely saying that over say the last [02:00:19] 20 years, America's not gotten richer [02:00:21] >> or freer [02:00:23] um at all. And I come to Israel and the [02:00:26] infrastructure we're flying in and I [02:00:27] said to my buddy, I was like, "Man, the [02:00:29] looks first looks great. I love the [02:00:31] agriculture in Israel cuz it's [02:00:32] beautiful. I love green. I love [02:00:34] >> plants." [02:00:34] >> I remember when it didn't look like [02:00:36] that. [02:00:36] >> Yeah. Yeah. [02:00:36] >> First time I came here 53 years ago. [02:00:38] >> It's great. [02:00:39] >> It did not look like that. [02:00:40] >> Great. looks a lot nicer than our [02:00:41] country and it has higher standard of [02:00:43] living. It has nicer roads uh than the [02:00:46] United States. And so it's like, okay, [02:00:50] why are we sending all this money to a [02:00:52] country that has a higher standard of [02:00:53] living than ours? [02:00:54] >> I don't know that they have a higher [02:00:55] standard of living. [02:00:56] >> They do actually. They have free [02:00:57] healthcare. They also have free [02:00:58] abortion. Are you okay with that? [02:01:00] >> I personally don't like that. [02:01:02] >> Why would we be subsidizing? Why would [02:01:03] we send any money? Why would we send any [02:01:06] money to a country that provides free [02:01:07] abortion? Because the money that we send [02:01:09] does not pay for health care. It does [02:01:11] not pay for abortion. It pays for [02:01:12] military things. [02:01:13] >> It's like if they don't spend it on [02:01:15] this, they'll spend it on that. [02:01:16] >> They do spend it on that. And then we [02:01:17] get many more times back and the return [02:01:19] on investment when [02:01:21] >> say we're not sending you any more money [02:01:22] as long as you have free abortion. [02:01:25] >> Well, that would be a policy decision. [02:01:28] >> I would be okay with it because I hate [02:01:29] abortion. I think it's horrible. [02:01:30] >> How much do you hate it? [02:01:32] >> Why are we sending the money if they're [02:01:33] paying for free? They're not paying for [02:01:34] abortions with the money [02:01:36] >> and because we in turn get billions of [02:01:40] dollars. The return on investment is [02:01:41] estimated somewhere between 400 and [02:01:43] 1200. [02:01:43] >> I've heard these numbers. I just live [02:01:45] there and I know and I'm by the way I'm [02:01:48] for American manufacturing. [02:01:51] The defense industry is totally corrupt [02:01:53] and CD as you know. However, I like to [02:01:56] see American companies thrive. Like it's [02:01:58] complicated. I'm not an extremist or an [02:02:00] absolutist on really anything [02:02:02] >> other than abortion. However, [02:02:05] net net, as we say, our country is not [02:02:08] really thriving. And I we're also [02:02:10] totally [02:02:11] >> Why is that the case? Is it because [02:02:12] we've done a lousy job controlling our [02:02:14] borders, a lousy job of controlling our [02:02:16] economies? It's a lot of things, but we [02:02:18] own that. I think President Trump is [02:02:21] doing remarkable things to turn it [02:02:22] around. I cannot imagine any president. [02:02:25] I know. But if you're saying the country [02:02:27] is in trouble, listen, [02:02:28] >> saying we're out of money actually is [02:02:29] what I'm [02:02:29] >> giving credit to what the president is [02:02:31] doing to get us out of debt because I [02:02:33] think that what he's doing economically, [02:02:35] >> I'm not supporting Hamas and I'm not [02:02:36] attacking Trump just with those baseline [02:02:39] agreements. [02:02:41] >> It's also true that like our debt is not [02:02:42] sustainable. And so given that like what [02:02:45] do you think it will cost? What what did [02:02:47] it cost to move all these to move the [02:02:49] fleet off Iran into the Persian Gulf? A [02:02:52] lot less than it would to bury a lot of [02:02:54] Americans if they ever got a long range [02:02:55] ballistic missile. [02:02:58] >> A lot less. [02:02:59] >> Yeah. [02:02:59] >> I want you to understand that when Iran [02:03:02] has told us for 47 years they're going [02:03:03] to kill us, do you think they would do [02:03:06] it if they had the capacity militarily? [02:03:08] >> What would happen if [02:03:10] Iran took out any of the [02:03:15] energy facilities in the Gulf or took [02:03:17] out a bunch of them? What would happen [02:03:19] to the United States economy, do you [02:03:21] think? [02:03:22] >> Well, our economy probably would survive [02:03:25] because we have energy independence [02:03:26] thanks to President Trump. [02:03:27] >> It would survive. [02:03:29] >> Our economy is based on our markets. [02:03:32] What What do you think? [02:03:33] >> It would be a terrible thing to happen [02:03:34] globally. It's why Iran is a global [02:03:37] threat. It's why Iran through its [02:03:38] proxies. Tucker, this is another thing. [02:03:40] People, [02:03:40] >> they're not blowing up energy [02:03:41] infrastructure right now, but if we try [02:03:43] to regime change them, they have said [02:03:45] that they will. I don't know if they [02:03:46] will or not. Is that a risk that [02:03:48] >> but they have their own problems to [02:03:49] defend if they try to do that and they [02:03:53] lose their own energy capacity [02:03:55] >> worried about so if they took out and I [02:03:57] again I don't know what's going to [02:03:58] happen [02:03:58] >> and I guess we're not supposed to think [02:04:00] about worst case because that makes us [02:04:01] pro-Islamic or something but I'm an [02:04:04] American and I don't want a depression [02:04:06] in our country. It's too fractured and [02:04:08] unstable right now. I don't think we [02:04:09] want that at all. Okay. [02:04:10] >> None of us want that. None of us want [02:04:12] that. [02:04:12] >> Not right now. We don't. Not at all. [02:04:15] >> I don't want it next year, next week. 10 [02:04:16] years, [02:04:17] >> especially now, all these states are [02:04:18] basically in a state of insurrection [02:04:19] against the federal government. They're [02:04:21] not enforcing the most basic law of the [02:04:23] land, which is [02:04:24] >> immigration. [02:04:25] >> And thank goodness, President Trump is [02:04:26] pushing back and he's [02:04:27] >> I agree. I'm just saying [02:04:28] >> seeking to force [02:04:29] >> if all of a sudden [02:04:30] >> compliance [02:04:31] >> markets just tanked and gas tripled or [02:04:35] whatever and you had, [02:04:37] >> you know, like a severe recession or [02:04:39] something worse. [02:04:41] That's a massive cost and I don't see [02:04:43] anybody factoring in that possibility. [02:04:45] Iran has said it will do it. You've said [02:04:47] 10 times they're evil. Okay, I believe [02:04:48] you. Then why wouldn't they take out the [02:04:51] Qatari gas fields they share with Qar or [02:04:55] >> refining prochemicals extraction in any [02:04:57] of the Gulf countries? That that would [02:04:59] us. [02:05:00] >> Let's Well, [02:05:01] >> energy wise, again, we have independence [02:05:04] because President Trump put measures in [02:05:07] place that gave us the capacity. [02:05:09] >> Do we set international energy prices in [02:05:11] the United States? [02:05:12] In some ways we do because our own [02:05:15] market and our own production has a [02:05:17] whole lot to do with what those world [02:05:18] costs are going to be. [02:05:19] >> If you took Saudi energy production or [02:05:21] Qatari energy production or Emirati [02:05:24] energy production off [02:05:25] >> that is making an assumption that if [02:05:27] there were regime change that they would [02:05:29] be more effective at attacking than we [02:05:32] would be defending and that's a pretty [02:05:34] >> Can we defend the the straits for moves? [02:05:36] Can we defend all of that energy [02:05:38] infrastructure? Is anyone even asking [02:05:39] these questions or it's all like a [02:05:40] Marvin episode where they're bad? Okay, [02:05:43] >> they're certainly asking the questions. [02:05:45] That's part of the whole process. [02:05:46] >> I'm saying is it I've raised this before [02:05:48] and it's like shut up. You're taking [02:05:51] money from the jihadis. I've never taken [02:05:54] a dime from anybody. Obviously, I just [02:05:58] care about the United States and it [02:05:59] freaks me out and no one else seems [02:06:01] worried about this. In caring about the [02:06:03] US, you should care about the fact that [02:06:05] the proxies of Iran have moved globally. [02:06:08] 12 Central and South American countries [02:06:10] have Hezbollah deeply embedded. [02:06:13] Venezuela one of the worst. They're in [02:06:15] the Western Hemisphere already. Do we [02:06:17] know how many? [02:06:17] >> Why would you rank that on the on the [02:06:20] like list of concerns for the average [02:06:22] American? Hezbollah and [02:06:23] >> I doubt most Americans think about it. I [02:06:25] think about it because I know what they [02:06:26] do. I know that if it weren't for Iran, [02:06:29] there wouldn't be Hamas. There wouldn't [02:06:30] be the Hoodies. There wouldn't be [02:06:31] Hezbollah. We wouldn't have the problem [02:06:33] on the border with Lebanon. We wouldn't [02:06:35] have the problem with Yemen. We wouldn't [02:06:37] have the diff problem on the border with [02:06:38] Leb I'm as I'm an American. I'm not [02:06:40] having any problems on the border with [02:06:41] Lebanon right now. I live in Maine. We [02:06:44] don't have problems on the border of [02:06:45] Lebanon. Like, what are you even talking [02:06:46] about? No offense. [02:06:47] >> There's 700,000 Americans who live in [02:06:48] Israel for one thing. Does that matter [02:06:50] to you? [02:06:51] >> Well, of course, every American matters [02:06:53] to every life you say matters the same. [02:06:55] So, that should matter. when they start [02:06:57] my country like I'm just saying [02:06:59] >> shelling civilians and civilians get [02:07:01] killed and displaced that should matter [02:07:03] to all of us [02:07:04] >> but I mean there's a genocide going on [02:07:06] like in all kinds of different countries [02:07:08] there there's a lot that's sad and [02:07:10] broken about the world we know that as [02:07:12] Christians Satan rules the world [02:07:15] >> but our job as like members of a nation [02:07:19] state is look after our community [02:07:21] families right so [02:07:22] >> I don't think any of the concerns that [02:07:24] you've just raised which I think are all [02:07:26] real, I'm not disputing them at all, [02:07:28] >> are even in like the top hundred for [02:07:30] Americans. How can the US government be [02:07:32] spending this much time and money [02:07:33] worrying about things that are not on [02:07:36] the list of Americans concerns? Do we [02:07:38] have self-government? Does it matter [02:07:40] what Americans actually think or doesn't [02:07:41] it? [02:07:41] >> Of course it does. But it also matters [02:07:43] how much does it matter [02:07:44] >> what the threat is to Americans? Do you [02:07:46] think there's a threat to Americans [02:07:47] because of the proliferation of the [02:07:49] proxies in in Iran? [02:07:50] >> Conceivably there is. I'm not pro Iran, [02:07:53] >> but but beyond conceivably, do you think [02:07:56] that they mean it when they say for [02:07:59] >> cartels like in my town and no one's [02:08:01] doing anything about it at all? And I'm [02:08:02] hearing a lot about [02:08:03] >> doing anything about that. [02:08:04] >> No one's doing anything about it at all. [02:08:06] Okay, that's a fact. We have a huge [02:08:09] country. This is country the size of New [02:08:11] Jersey with no resources. [02:08:13] >> You know, it's just a tiny little [02:08:15] country. Mhm. [02:08:16] >> We're from a huge continental sized [02:08:17] country that's totally diverse, very, [02:08:20] very hard to manage and police. And we [02:08:23] have a lot of problems. And I just think [02:08:27] if you ask Americans [02:08:30] what do they want to spend their time [02:08:31] and money [02:08:32] >> worrying about fixing, improving, [02:08:35] no one's going to mention the border [02:08:36] with Lebanon that I know. Do you think? [02:08:38] >> I doubt they will. But then this I would [02:08:41] like to think that there are people that [02:08:44] the US government has monitoring what [02:08:47] the threats are to Americans long term. [02:08:49] Do you think there's a threat? The [02:08:51] question is when people tell [02:08:55] >> Well, but I don't know that Saddam ever [02:08:58] said he was going to take down America. [02:09:00] But the Iranian regime has said for 47 [02:09:02] years they are. Well, you just [02:09:04] >> if they had the capacity of a long range [02:09:06] ballistic missile and nuclear [02:09:08] capability, do you think they'd light [02:09:10] that puppy up and send it to us? [02:09:11] >> I don't know. Um, but I know [02:09:13] >> Well, I know this from sitting here last [02:09:15] year, four wars that I went through in [02:09:16] less than a year, the Iranians rain down [02:09:19] ballistic missiles. [02:09:21] >> Can I ask you a question? Like, how much [02:09:23] does it matter what Americans think? [02:09:25] >> Well, it matters every bit what [02:09:27] Americans think. That's why Americans [02:09:28] vote. It's why Americans have the [02:09:30] opportunity to have free speech. We want [02:09:32] them to have that. [02:09:32] >> Okay. So, what percentage of Americans [02:09:34] support a war with Iran? [02:09:37] >> I don't know. Do you know? [02:09:38] >> I do. It's I think it's around I saw the [02:09:40] numbers yesterday. I think it was like [02:09:41] 21%. [02:09:42] >> Okay. [02:09:43] >> Is that enough to have a war with Iran? [02:09:46] >> We don't live in a world where you have [02:09:49] a poll taken to find out whether our [02:09:52] policy should be a particular direction [02:09:54] because [02:09:54] >> Oh, I thought I thought you just said [02:09:56] that direct democracy. No, we care [02:09:58] deeply about it. But on the other hand, [02:10:01] do we make the decisions of foreign [02:10:03] policy and even domestic policy based on [02:10:05] >> we care deeply about it in what sense? [02:10:08] How in if we're ignoring it, then in [02:10:09] what sense do we quote care deeply about [02:10:11] it? [02:10:12] >> Well, I think we care deeply when we see [02:10:14] there's a threat. [02:10:15] >> No, but about Americans opinions. So, [02:10:17] you've got 350 million Americans. [02:10:19] >> Um, they vote they voted in this last [02:10:21] election on the basis in part of the [02:10:23] promise no more wars. Okay. So, now [02:10:25] we're about to have a war. like 80% of [02:10:28] people are against it. In that range, [02:10:29] let's say it's 70%, but nowhere near [02:10:31] majority support for this war. And it's [02:10:35] not direct democracy, but it is a form [02:10:37] of democracy. It's representative [02:10:38] democracy. [02:10:38] >> The ultimate form of democracy in our [02:10:41] system in a republic because we're not a [02:10:42] true democracy. We're a republic. [02:10:44] >> Exactly. Right. It's a mediated [02:10:45] democracy. [02:10:45] >> It'll be an opportunity for Americans to [02:10:48] vote if they think that we've made the [02:10:50] wrong policy decisions. I personally [02:10:51] think the president is making the right [02:10:53] policy decision. But I guess but you [02:10:55] just said it matters deeply what [02:10:57] Americans think. And if the overwhelming [02:10:58] majority are against it, [02:11:00] >> in what sense does it matter? Cuz what I [02:11:03] hear is it matters what they think, but [02:11:04] it really doesn't matter what they think [02:11:06] because [02:11:06] >> No, you take it in. You certainly ingest [02:11:08] that. [02:11:09] >> And then what do you do? Once you ingest [02:11:10] it, [02:11:11] >> then you make sure that you have No, [02:11:13] >> you just got to it goes out the other [02:11:15] end obviously. [02:11:16] >> No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't, Tucker. [02:11:18] But you also have information that the [02:11:21] average American may not have. [02:11:24] >> They may not know what the threat is. [02:11:25] How many Americans know that Hezbollah [02:11:27] is in 12 Western Hemisphere count? [02:11:29] >> How many Americans care? [02:11:31] >> Well, I would hope they would all care. [02:11:32] How many Americans know? How many people [02:11:34] from Iran from terrorist cells have come [02:11:38] across Joe Biden's open border? How how [02:11:40] many Americans care about that? [02:11:41] >> They definitely care about that. [02:11:43] >> Okay, you haven't been rounded up, [02:11:45] >> but they're trying. But you got all [02:11:47] these blue state mayors and governors [02:11:49] making it very difficult. But thank God [02:11:51] President Trump is trying to get it [02:11:53] done. [02:11:53] >> Look, I'm totally all for that [02:11:55] completely. I guess what I'm saying is [02:11:57] that most Americans over I've never met [02:12:00] an American who thinks other than like [02:12:02] the people who have ideological reasons [02:12:04] to pretend they think it that the [02:12:06] imminent threat to America is anything [02:12:08] having to do with Iran. Imminent threats [02:12:09] to America include like bankruptcy from [02:12:12] too much debt, your son ODing on [02:12:15] fentanyl, [02:12:16] >> your neighborhood completely changing [02:12:18] because unlike Israel, Americans don't [02:12:20] have a right to their country. It can [02:12:21] just be completely changed by their [02:12:23] legislature. New people can show up from [02:12:25] foreign countries and not speak your [02:12:26] language and there's nothing you can do [02:12:27] about it because you don't have a right [02:12:28] because you're not BB. [02:12:30] >> Can you feel the resentment because it's [02:12:31] real? I'm not against Israel. I'm [02:12:33] against the total destruction. [02:12:35] >> You hide that very well. I'm mad at my [02:12:37] lawmakers for not protecting my country [02:12:40] with the care they've protected Israel. [02:12:43] >> I don't think that your country, my [02:12:45] country, our country has spent that much [02:12:48] time protecting Israel. I asked you a [02:12:50] little bit ago. [02:12:50] >> They spent no time protecting my [02:12:52] country. [02:12:52] >> No, I asked you. [02:12:54] >> Well, actually, they do. [02:12:56] >> How? [02:12:56] >> They are the tip of the spear. Every [02:12:58] enemy they have is our enemy. [02:12:59] >> Our country. [02:13:00] >> Things that are targeted toward us often [02:13:02] go through them. How do we have 60 [02:13:04] million illegal aliens if they protected [02:13:06] my country? [02:13:06] >> Well, that we didn't protect our country [02:13:08] because we had a president that opened [02:13:10] up the borders and didn't give a [02:13:11] >> ri [02:13:12] since Reagan 1986. [02:13:14] >> Yeah, but that's 40 years. [02:13:15] >> President Trump the credit for having [02:13:17] closed the border. [02:13:18] >> I'm giving I love the fact I campaigned [02:13:20] for Trump cuz he said he'll close the [02:13:21] border. He did. Amen. Thank you, Trump. [02:13:24] But we had Reagan, then we had Bush, [02:13:26] then we had Clinton, then we had Bush [02:13:29] again, then we had that guy Obama, and [02:13:33] then you know the presidents. [02:13:35] >> Yeah. [02:13:35] >> And they all presided over my country's [02:13:38] total transformation from a nice, clean, [02:13:41] affluent, orderly society into like [02:13:44] pretty kind of third world actually. [02:13:46] That's not protecting us. That's [02:13:48] behaving with total contempt for my [02:13:51] country. You said a moment ago that we [02:13:53] do more or you inferred that we do more [02:13:56] for Israel than we do for ourselves. [02:13:58] >> Do you believe that? [02:13:59] >> No. I don't I didn't say we do more for [02:14:01] Israel. It's like but where's the care? [02:14:03] Where's the concern? Where's the Holy [02:14:05] smokes? There are drug cartels in your [02:14:07] neighborhood. You're telling me about [02:14:08] the border with Lebanon and like [02:14:10] Hezbollah or Hezbollah, whatever you [02:14:12] call it in some Latin American country. [02:14:13] I don't care. There are drug cartels in [02:14:15] my neighborhood. I know people who've [02:14:17] died of fentanyl os. [02:14:18] >> Where did the fentanyl come from? [02:14:20] probably from China. [02:14:21] >> From Mexico. [02:14:23] >> From China through Mexico. [02:14:23] >> Yeah. The precursor chemicals they say [02:14:25] come from China. I get it. [02:14:27] >> And who's in that axis with China? Iran. [02:14:30] >> Uh Larry Frink is in that access with [02:14:32] No, actually actually the heads of our [02:14:35] biggest corporations are in that axis [02:14:37] with China. I don't care about Iran at [02:14:40] all. I care about America. And if [02:14:43] blowing up Iran makes my country richer [02:14:46] and safer, I'm for it. And if it [02:14:47] doesn't, I'm totally opposed. It's that [02:14:49] simple. I think most Americans feel that [02:14:50] way. Now, [02:14:52] >> I asked you a question a little bit ago [02:14:54] you never got back to because I think [02:14:55] it's an important one because one of the [02:14:58] things that I I sense a tension with [02:15:00] you. You feel like that we do too much [02:15:01] for Israel. We're getting nothing from [02:15:03] it. And I ask you, how many [02:15:05] >> No, I don't think we're getting [02:15:06] >> How many boots on the ground [02:15:10] has the US placed on behalf of Israel? [02:15:13] >> However many went to Iraq. We did that [02:15:15] for Israel. [02:15:16] >> No, I don't think we did. You said we [02:15:17] did it because of 911. [02:15:20] >> That's was the US justification for it. [02:15:22] >> But it wasn't 911. So what was the [02:15:24] actual reason? [02:15:26] >> Well, that's the US government told us [02:15:28] it was for 911. They told us that they [02:15:30] were part of it that they had weapons of [02:15:31] mass destruction. [02:15:32] >> They knew they had nothing with 911. [02:15:34] Obviously, there's no evidence. So [02:15:36] Israel was not in that component. [02:15:38] >> Israel had no influence on our decision [02:15:40] to invade Iraq. That's not what the [02:15:42] people who made the decision say. They [02:15:43] say Israel [02:15:45] >> Well, let me get back to the point. gave [02:15:46] us that information about the fake [02:15:47] weapons of mass destruction. What do you [02:15:49] think the question was? Came from [02:15:50] >> BB. How many How many Americans put [02:15:52] their boots on the ground for Israel? [02:15:53] The answer is zero. [02:15:54] >> Everybody who served in Iraq put their [02:15:56] boots on the ground for Israel. [02:15:57] >> Did not. Did not. [02:15:59] >> Where did we get the information about [02:16:00] the weapons of mass destruction? That [02:16:02] wasn't real. [02:16:02] >> We didn't get that from You're saying we [02:16:04] got that from Israel? That Israel was [02:16:06] one pushed us into that? [02:16:07] >> Well, absolutely. [02:16:08] >> You really believe that? [02:16:09] >> I know that for a fact. So does every [02:16:12] >> Yes. This has been uh widely written [02:16:14] about and discussed. Then I'm not [02:16:15] attacking Israel. Like they thought it [02:16:16] was in their interest to take out a [02:16:19] government that was paying the families [02:16:20] of suicide bombers. I get it. I'm not [02:16:22] mad at Israel about that. I never have [02:16:24] been. I'm mad at the Bush administration [02:16:27] and all the people who went along with [02:16:29] this to the detriment of my country. [02:16:31] That's who I'm mad at. Not Israel. BB is [02:16:33] doing what he can for his country. [02:16:35] Whether you agree with him or not, I [02:16:36] want my leaders to do the same for my [02:16:38] country. That's it. I think the present [02:16:40] leadership is doing just that. I truly [02:16:42] do. And I don't think that it's at all [02:16:45] accurate to even intimate [02:16:49] that tiny little Israel is pushing the [02:16:51] US into something it does not want to [02:16:53] do. [02:16:53] >> I totally [02:16:54] >> Our leaders appear to want to do it. Our [02:16:56] public does not want to do it at all. [02:16:58] The public does not want war with Iran. [02:17:01] BB does. He's gotten seven seven trips [02:17:05] to the White House. [02:17:07] >> The average American question would be [02:17:08] Hold on. The average American doesn't [02:17:10] have [02:17:12] that level of access and a foreign [02:17:15] leader does. Seven in one year. And now [02:17:18] we're moving toward war with Iran. The [02:17:20] average American doesn't want that war. [02:17:22] The average American is outraged. Don't [02:17:23] you understand? I'm not the strongest [02:17:26] president I've ever seen in my lifetime. [02:17:28] Going back to Eisenhower for God. If [02:17:30] you're an American [02:17:31] >> No, no, no. Listen to me, Tucker. For [02:17:33] God's sake, [02:17:33] >> I'm not attacking Trump. I like Trump. [02:17:35] >> I know, but you're making it sound like [02:17:37] that he is being pulled into something [02:17:40] that he really doesn't want to do or [02:17:42] pulled into something because he's [02:17:43] persuaded. [02:17:44] >> I'm neither saying that nor I was in the [02:17:46] meeting last week. I was in the meetings [02:17:48] last summer. I can assure you, President [02:17:50] Trump is not being led into something at [02:17:53] all by Prime Minister Netanyahu. [02:17:56] >> To be clear, I'm neither saying that nor [02:17:58] implying it. what I am stating out loud [02:18:01] is true and that's that Prime Minister [02:18:03] Netanyahu, BB Netanyahu has way more [02:18:07] influence over American foreign policy [02:18:10] than Americans do. And we know this [02:18:13] because he wants a war with Iran. The [02:18:15] overwhelming majority of Americans don't [02:18:17] want a war with Iran and we're very [02:18:19] likely to get a war with Iran. So, who [02:18:21] has more influence, Benjamin Netanyahu [02:18:23] or 80% of Americans? And I'm saying [02:18:26] that's outrageous. That's all I'm [02:18:27] saying. I would counter that. BB [02:18:30] Netanyahu does not want a war with Iran. [02:18:33] To say that he wants a war, you know [02:18:36] who's going to be at the very front of [02:18:37] that? His people. And I don't agree with [02:18:40] that. I'm with him enough to know he [02:18:42] does not want a war. [02:18:44] >> He doesn't. [02:18:44] >> Does Does he think that there may be a [02:18:46] necessity of taking a war in order to [02:18:50] prevent an attack on not just Israel? [02:18:54] >> But I think I know too much. I mean, [02:18:55] let's let's be real, okay? So, there was [02:18:58] uh you know, Steve Wickoff, in my [02:19:00] opinion, is just a sterling guy, just a [02:19:01] good guy. Excellent. I that's my view [02:19:04] >> and kind of pro-American and just [02:19:07] couldn't be nicer and wants the right [02:19:08] thing and he's probably Trump's best [02:19:10] friend. [02:19:11] >> He and maybe Jared, too, are involved in [02:19:13] a negotiation with Hamas. [02:19:17] >> Um, [02:19:17] >> or you mean with Iran? [02:19:19] >> With Iran. Yeah. I'm so sorry. [02:19:20] >> Okay. And [02:19:23] the Israeli government short circus it [02:19:27] by hitting Iran. So like they [02:19:31] >> What do you mean they short circuit by [02:19:32] hitting Iran? [02:19:35] >> They did everything they could to shut [02:19:37] down the negotiations between the United [02:19:40] States, the Trump administration, and [02:19:42] Iran. [02:19:44] And look, I wouldn't. They're acting [02:19:46] again in their own interest, but our [02:19:50] country should also act in its own [02:19:52] interest. That's all I'm saying. And so [02:19:54] don't tell me that BB doesn't want a war [02:19:56] with Iran. [02:19:57] >> He He doesn't. [02:19:58] >> If Jared Kushner and Steve Whit could be [02:20:01] successful in getting the president's [02:20:03] demands, and keep in mind, these are the [02:20:05] president's demands. [02:20:06] >> What are those demands? No enrichment, [02:20:08] no nuclear weapon. Quit killing your own [02:20:10] people in the streets by the tens of [02:20:12] thousands. You, you and I both agree [02:20:14] that it's a horrible thing to kill your [02:20:16] own citizens, which Iran is doing. [02:20:18] >> It's a horrible thing to kill anybody's [02:20:19] citizens. [02:20:19] >> Anybody's citizens. We agree on that. [02:20:21] >> Except that they're 14-year-olds working [02:20:23] for Hamas. But whatever. [02:20:25] >> It's still a tragedy. [02:20:26] >> No, it is. Sorry, I'm being a jerk. [02:20:28] >> You really are being a jerk. [02:20:29] >> I am. I know. I am being a jerk on [02:20:31] >> I AM SUCH A JERK. I [02:20:32] >> I'm going to write down [02:20:35] admitted [02:20:35] >> he's a jerk. Oh, I am a jerk. Everyone [02:20:37] knows that. I mean, I'm trying to really [02:20:39] trying. Okay. [02:20:39] >> Okay. [02:20:40] >> No, but I agree with you 100%. Of [02:20:41] course, it's a judge. [02:20:42] >> If that could be done, and I pray it [02:20:44] can. [02:20:45] >> Yes. [02:20:45] >> And you know why? Number one, because it [02:20:47] would be wonderful for everybody. Number [02:20:48] two, if there is a war, you're going to [02:20:50] be 6,000 miles from it. You know where [02:20:52] I'm going to be? In the bullseye. [02:20:55] Do I want there to be a war? No. Do [02:20:57] Israelis want there to be a war? No. How [02:21:00] many I keep hearing Israel's fighting a [02:21:02] sevenfront war [02:21:04] right now. What are those seven fronts? [02:21:07] >> Well, you got Lebanon, you have Egypt. [02:21:10] >> Now, Egypt is not an active war, but you [02:21:12] have the Muslim Brotherhood within [02:21:14] Egypt. You've got the Muslim Brotherhood [02:21:16] in Jordan. You've got Syria. [02:21:18] >> Wait, they're fighting war with Jordan. [02:21:20] >> With the Muslim Brotherhood that is in [02:21:22] Jordan, not directly with Jordan, not [02:21:24] the government of Jordan. [02:21:25] >> But are they [02:21:26] >> You've got Hezbollah. You've got [02:21:28] >> in Lebanon, [02:21:28] >> Hoodis [02:21:29] >> in Yemen, [02:21:30] >> you have Hamas in Gaza. You have uh the [02:21:34] threats that come from Iran and how many [02:21:37] is that? [02:21:38] >> That's seven. [02:21:39] >> That's seven. Okay. I'd give you an [02:21:40] eighth one. You know the eighth one? The [02:21:42] media? [02:21:45] >> No, I would tell you there's an eighth [02:21:46] front war they fight. [02:21:47] >> How many journalists is Israel killed in [02:21:49] Gaza? [02:21:50] >> I don't know. [02:21:51] >> Over 200. It seems like [02:21:53] >> Now, are they real journalists? Because [02:21:54] a lot of those people that were [02:21:55] supposedly journalists were actually [02:21:57] Hamas fighters that are documented Hamas [02:21:59] fighters. So that's why I ask you how [02:22:01] many are actual journalists? [02:22:03] >> You know, I I don't know, but a lot of [02:22:04] them were. I mean, they worked for big [02:22:06] news organizations and they had press [02:22:07] written on their chest. [02:22:08] >> Yeah. Some of them had UNRA cars and [02:22:10] they were also working for Hamas. [02:22:12] >> So, are you concerned? Do you think that [02:22:14] over 200 journalists killed in Gaza, all [02:22:16] fake journalists who deserve to be [02:22:17] killed? [02:22:17] >> I have no idea how many the total number [02:22:19] is. I I don't have their credentials, [02:22:21] but I know that there were quite a few. [02:22:23] There were actually Hamas fighters that [02:22:25] protected Hamas. Ask the hostages. the [02:22:28] hostages came back and they started [02:22:30] telling about the number of people that [02:22:32] were doctors in hospitals that held them [02:22:34] hostage in their homes or the number of [02:22:36] people who were pretending to be [02:22:37] journalists who were actually holding [02:22:38] them hostage. [02:22:39] >> As someone who is telling you that [02:22:40] there's there's a lot more to what [02:22:43] >> as someone whose tax dollars helped pay [02:22:45] for killing all those civilians in Gaza, [02:22:47] I feel like I have a right to know how [02:22:48] many were killed and Israel won't let [02:22:52] outside observers in to figure it out. [02:22:54] And I I'm frustrated. I just want to say [02:22:56] that my last question is about [02:22:57] Christians. Um both Christians who visit [02:23:01] and Christians uh who live here, [02:23:03] particularly in the West Bank. [02:23:06] Um I spoke to someone recently um a [02:23:10] Christian minister who grew up in a town [02:23:13] right outside Bethlehem. We would know [02:23:15] it as Shepherd's Field [02:23:17] >> um in the New Testament where the [02:23:19] shepherds were tending their flocks in [02:23:21] Matthew. And of course, the angels come [02:23:22] and announce the arrival of Jesus in in [02:23:24] nearby Bethlehem. His family's been [02:23:26] Christian, he says, for 2,000 years. He [02:23:29] says his where he grew up is now [02:23:30] surrounded by settlements um of people [02:23:33] who are not from Israel at all. A lot of [02:23:35] them are from the United States, Jewish [02:23:37] settlements. They have different roads [02:23:40] uh that the native Christians are not [02:23:42] allowed to use. I don't quite know how [02:23:43] that works. Um and he described a story [02:23:46] where his mother was shot outside their [02:23:50] house by an IDF soldier for reasons no [02:23:52] one ever explained. She survived. um but [02:23:55] no one was ever punished for it or even [02:23:56] explained why they did it. And he [02:23:58] basically described being terrorized by [02:24:01] settlers. [02:24:02] Uh and I wonder if that's a concern for [02:24:05] you for the native population, the [02:24:08] indigenous population. [02:24:09] >> Did you say this happened in Bethlehem? [02:24:11] >> Uh [02:24:13] it happened in Shepherd's Field. So it's [02:24:15] a Christian village. Betah, I think is [02:24:18] its name. Outside right outside [02:24:20] Bethlehem. [02:24:20] >> If it's in Bethlehem, [02:24:22] >> it's not in Bethlehem. It's again it's I [02:24:23] think it's Betsur I believe is the name [02:24:25] of the village [02:24:27] >> because there are no Israelis in [02:24:30] Bethlehem. None. There are no Jews in [02:24:32] Bethlehem. [02:24:32] >> Are there new settlements outside [02:24:33] Bethlehem where he is from? [02:24:35] >> Uh over in in area C, but not in area A. [02:24:38] There are none. [02:24:39] >> Well, he he describes the town he grew [02:24:41] up in. And I guess I I wonder why a [02:24:44] Christian whose family's been there for [02:24:47] 2,000 years, [02:24:48] >> there are Palestinian Christians [02:24:50] throughout uh today in Samaria. That [02:24:53] That's true. I've been over to visit [02:24:54] them. I've been there. [02:24:55] >> I have. I know you have. And some have [02:24:56] been um you know, [02:24:59] >> we've advocated for some that are [02:25:00] Muslim, but they're American citizens. [02:25:02] And we advocated because there was uh [02:25:04] >> But why can't they just drive into [02:25:06] Jerusalem to go to the church of the [02:25:07] holy supplr? Why do they need a permit [02:25:09] to do that if they're from there? [02:25:10] because of the acts of terrorism that [02:25:12] has made it impossible to do it. You [02:25:14] know how many suicide? No, no, no. [02:25:16] Christians you ask this question. So [02:25:18] what do we do? Just say you're a [02:25:19] Christian. Oh yeah, I'm a Christian. But [02:25:20] you're wearing a suicide bomb. [02:25:22] >> Do Christians do suicide bombs? [02:25:25] >> They could. They could. If all they have [02:25:27] to do is just say announce a Christian, [02:25:30] there were over a thousand. [02:25:31] >> Why don't just get an identity card says [02:25:32] I'm Christian? [02:25:33] >> Let me just finish this. Before Israel [02:25:36] put the the green line up [02:25:39] >> and before they took great care to put [02:25:42] checkpoints in place, there were over a [02:25:45] thousand suicide bombers in one year. [02:25:47] >> It was awful. I remember it, but I don't [02:25:50] think any of them were Christians. And [02:25:52] >> they may not have been. [02:25:52] >> Okay. But [02:25:53] >> but my point is, well, we could find out [02:25:54] if they were. And [02:25:55] >> so you're you're saying we just trust [02:25:57] somebody. If they come up and say, "I'm [02:25:58] a Christian. I just want to go to the [02:25:59] holy supplr. Let me in." [02:26:00] >> What I'm saying is that Christians have [02:26:02] a right to go to the holy supplr. Israel [02:26:04] does not own it. They've had possession [02:26:06] of it since 1967. It doesn't belong to [02:26:08] BB. It belongs to me and you and every [02:26:10] other Christian. [02:26:10] >> BB was a probably a young person. I'm [02:26:13] not even sure he was. [02:26:14] >> No Christian should ever be barred from [02:26:17] the church of the holy supplr. [02:26:19] >> Should Christians be barred from [02:26:20] Joseph's tomb in Nabilas? [02:26:22] >> I don't know. Let's just start with the [02:26:23] church of the holy suppl. [02:26:25] >> And I don't understand on what grounds [02:26:27] they are. Well, they can't if they're [02:26:29] Christians at Betahor. So, I don't [02:26:32] understand why they're a threat. They're [02:26:34] not a threat. And why won't you, as the [02:26:37] Christian minister, US ambassador to the [02:26:40] state of Israel, say to the prime [02:26:42] minister, you can't allow this. Your [02:26:44] country exists in part because American [02:26:46] Christians support you. So, you have to [02:26:48] treat us well. Part of the problem, [02:26:49] Tucker, is that in the Palestinian [02:26:51] Authority, and that's what we're talking [02:26:53] about, there are Christians. Look, I [02:26:55] know some Christians who live in [02:26:56] Bethlehem, and that is area A. Bethlehem [02:27:00] was 80 plus% Christian before Oslo. 80% [02:27:04] Christian, less than 20% Muslim. Today, [02:27:07] it's flipped. It's now 80 plus% Muslim. [02:27:10] >> It's very few Christian. And some of the [02:27:12] Christians that I personally know and [02:27:14] know well [02:27:15] >> are Zionist. Let that surprise you. [02:27:18] They're Zionist. They're hardcore. And [02:27:19] some are [02:27:20] >> Let me finish my train of thought here. [02:27:22] Okay. So in the Palestinian Authority, [02:27:25] they still teach children from the time [02:27:27] they're 5 years old that the greatest [02:27:29] thing in the world is to kill Jews. And [02:27:32] that if they end up being a martyr and [02:27:35] if they kill Jews, they will get a [02:27:36] pension for life if they die. And if [02:27:38] they don't, they'll get a paycheck for [02:27:40] life and their families will. And it's [02:27:42] called the prisoners and martyrs fund. [02:27:44] It's we call it pay for slay in the US. [02:27:47] It is against our law. [02:27:48] >> A lot of Christians collecting on that. [02:27:50] >> I don't know. [02:27:50] >> Zero. So my question remains and I'm a [02:27:53] little bit frustrated at this point. I [02:27:55] because I'm not defending Hamas. I hate [02:27:56] suicide bombing. I hate suicide. I hate [02:27:58] violence. I hate the killing of [02:28:00] children. Period. [02:28:01] >> Why can't a Christian who was born there [02:28:04] whose family's been there for 2,000 [02:28:05] years following Jesus for 2,000 years [02:28:07] drive cuz it's really close [02:28:10] >> Mhm. [02:28:10] >> to the Church of the Holy Supplr. He [02:28:12] poses no threat. And why can't the [02:28:14] United States government advocate for [02:28:16] him to do that? We do advocate for [02:28:19] Americans because that's our job. And it [02:28:22] doesn't matter whether they're [02:28:22] Palestinian or Israeli. We do that. But [02:28:26] as far as when they [02:28:27] >> How many Americans are being held in [02:28:28] Israeli prisons right now? [02:28:31] >> Um total I don't have a exact number on [02:28:34] that. I don't know. [02:28:35] >> How can you advocate for them if you [02:28:36] don't know how many there are? [02:28:37] >> Well, everyone that we know we go visit. [02:28:39] Our counselor goes there almost every [02:28:41] week and visits the Americans. It's not [02:28:43] a large number uh as far as Americans, [02:28:46] but when we have them, we go we go to [02:28:48] their trials when they're on trial. [02:28:50] >> So yeah, we do a lot more than you've [02:28:52] given us credit for. [02:28:53] >> Oh, I'm giving you credit. No, no, [02:28:54] you're giving credit for doing that [02:28:55] because we don't get much. [02:28:57] >> We don't get much. [02:28:58] >> By the way, not every embassy does that. [02:28:59] I happen to know for a fact they don't [02:29:01] advocate for Americans in jail. And [02:29:03] >> we take our consular services across [02:29:05] into the Palestinian Authority and help [02:29:07] people over there. Some of those are [02:29:09] Christians, some are not, some are [02:29:11] Muslim. But if they're Americans and [02:29:13] they have American citizenship, an [02:29:15] American passport, we help them. [02:29:17] >> That makes me so happy to hear. [02:29:18] >> I go to Ramala. I sit down with the vice [02:29:21] president and the prime minister of the [02:29:23] Palestinian Authority. We try to work [02:29:26] ways to make things better. But the [02:29:28] reason that sometimes it's not just a [02:29:31] absolute free passage, I'll tell you [02:29:35] why. because there are too many [02:29:37] incidences of terrorist acts and Israel [02:29:40] is not going to allow themselves. [02:29:42] >> But the Christians didn't do it and [02:29:44] they're not going to do it and [02:29:45] Christians pay for all of this. They pay [02:29:47] for a lot of this. [02:29:48] >> Horrible. It's it's very you can say [02:29:50] it's unfair. But here's [02:29:51] >> you can't punish the innocent. How's [02:29:53] that? [02:29:53] >> But you got to somehow make sure that [02:29:55] you screen people. And that's why the [02:29:57] checkpoints. Let me tell you what [02:29:58] happened not too very long ago. We had a [02:30:01] humanitarian aid truck that came across [02:30:04] from Jordan. The driver was supposedly [02:30:06] vetted. He was a former Jordanian [02:30:08] military person. He came across the [02:30:10] checkpoint. [02:30:11] Everything should be fine, right? He [02:30:13] gets out of his truck. He takes a gun [02:30:15] and he shoots two of the people, I [02:30:17] believe it, who are the Israelis at the [02:30:18] checkpoint. One of whom was a young [02:30:20] person less than a year in the job. His [02:30:23] mother teaches in the American school [02:30:25] where our embassy people go in her [02:30:26] aliyah. I get to make the phone call to [02:30:29] the mother. I'm going to tell you [02:30:31] something. It was not the most pleasant [02:30:32] day of my life. [02:30:33] >> It sounds awful. It is awful. And so [02:30:35] those kind of incidences are the reason [02:30:37] that it is difficult to go from Judea, [02:30:40] Samaria, or the West Bank. Call it [02:30:42] whatever you want. But if you're in area [02:30:44] A, which is under the control of the [02:30:46] Palestinian Authority, and your [02:30:48] education has been that killing Jews is [02:30:51] a wonderful thing. [02:30:52] >> I'm talking about the Christians. [02:30:54] >> But the Christians, if they go to those [02:30:55] schools, they're still going to get that [02:30:56] education. [02:30:57] >> When was the last time there was a [02:30:58] suicide bomb detonated by Christians? [02:30:59] >> I don't know. [02:31:00] >> Never. Let me ask you this. Look, I'm [02:31:02] not trying to defend, but I'm saying to [02:31:04] you that if the curriculum doesn't get [02:31:06] changed, if the pay for slave doesn't [02:31:08] get changed, [02:31:09] >> that doesn't apply. [02:31:09] >> You have a culture. Well, it you say it [02:31:12] doesn't apply. Maybe it never has [02:31:14] happened. I don't know whether it has [02:31:16] ever happened. [02:31:17] >> When will Palestinians in the West Bank [02:31:19] have the same rights as Israelis in the [02:31:20] West Bank? [02:31:22] >> Are you talking about the ones that live [02:31:23] in the Palestinian Authority? [02:31:25] >> I'm talking about people who live in the [02:31:26] villages they grew up in. [02:31:28] >> Yeah. changed hands, went from one [02:31:30] government to another [02:31:31] >> difference whether they live under the [02:31:32] Palestinian Authority government or [02:31:33] whether they live under Israeli. If they [02:31:34] live under area A, do you know the [02:31:36] difference? [02:31:36] >> I do. I'm saying [02:31:37] >> if they live under area A, they live [02:31:38] under the Palestinian Authority [02:31:40] government. They don't live under [02:31:41] Israeli government. [02:31:41] >> What? But it's controlled by the Israeli [02:31:44] government completely. There's no [02:31:45] airport. They control the utilities. I [02:31:46] mean, this is it's silly. I understand [02:31:48] there's a form of self-government, but [02:31:49] the big decisions are made by the [02:31:50] Israeli government. Obviously, I've been [02:31:52] there. I know this and you know it, too. [02:31:54] So, how long does this go on? You say [02:31:56] that God gave the nation of Israel the [02:31:59] right to this land. Why not just take [02:32:00] it, declare it Israel, and make everyone [02:32:02] a citizen? I don't understand why that's [02:32:03] not happening. [02:32:04] >> Well, you know what? There are people [02:32:05] who think that that would be a much [02:32:06] better [02:32:07] >> What do you think? [02:32:08] >> I think it it very well could be. And if [02:32:10] you ask certain people living in the PA [02:32:13] under their very corrupt government, [02:32:15] where 91% of the people think the [02:32:16] government is hopelessly corrupt, that's [02:32:18] what the numbers are. They would tell [02:32:20] you that they would be better off if the [02:32:23] Israelis were the governing authority. [02:32:25] Everyone gets voting rights. Would that [02:32:26] be the case [02:32:28] >> if they were all under Israeli [02:32:29] authority? You know, there are do you [02:32:31] you realize there are lots of Arab [02:32:34] Israelis? [02:32:35] >> I know. [02:32:35] >> And they vote. Do you know they serve in [02:32:37] the Knesset? [02:32:38] >> I'm very aware of that. And I'm just [02:32:40] wondering [02:32:40] >> and they serve on the Supreme Court. And [02:32:42] did you know that it was an Arab who [02:32:44] sentenced a former president and prime [02:32:46] minister to prison? [02:32:47] >> I I know this. So the I just want to [02:32:49] know what's going to happen. Do you know [02:32:50] how many Jews get to help govern Saudi [02:32:53] Arabia or Qatar or Syria? [02:32:56] >> I I'm not [02:32:59] >> attacking Jews. It's a much more open [02:33:01] government in society and you make it [02:33:03] sound like that the [02:33:05] >> sound that way. I'm just asking I [02:33:08] >> No, I am not attacking the nation of [02:33:10] Israel. I'm just wondering what the plan [02:33:11] is. So, I've been hearing my whole life [02:33:13] how bad the PA is. Okay, great. But [02:33:15] what's the plan here? So they're moving [02:33:17] all these Americans, people from around [02:33:19] the world into settlements subsidized by [02:33:21] Americans in the West Bank. [02:33:23] >> No, they're not moving them from around [02:33:25] the world to the settlements. They're [02:33:26] people who make aliyah. They come and [02:33:28] these are is these are Israelis who live [02:33:31] in Israel. [02:33:32] >> Well, there are a lot of people is [02:33:34] Israel. [02:33:35] >> Okay. [02:33:35] >> Okay. But [02:33:37] >> does it remain a territory under [02:33:39] military control forever? Does it just [02:33:41] become part of the state? [02:33:42] >> You're talking about the Palestinian [02:33:44] Authority. Correct. That's the big [02:33:45] question. Do you believe in the [02:33:47] two-state solution? And if you do, I [02:33:49] would I would show you a map and I would [02:33:52] ask you because this is u [02:33:54] >> I don't know. I don't know what I think. [02:33:56] I just think you need to treat people [02:33:58] like human beings and that's not [02:33:59] happening obviously. [02:34:00] >> And that would be you don't glorify [02:34:02] their killing. [02:34:04] >> Yeah. Let them go to their church if [02:34:05] they want. [02:34:05] >> See the yellow parts? Yeah. [02:34:07] >> That's Palestinian authority. [02:34:10] The tan parts, that's area B. That's the [02:34:14] area that is mixed. Israel has military [02:34:17] authority, but the Palestinians can live [02:34:20] anywhere they want to in there. And the [02:34:22] blue area, that's area C. [02:34:24] >> Area C is Israel. [02:34:26] >> And Israelis can live in Israel. [02:34:28] >> That's what it is. Now, when people say [02:34:30] they want a two-state solution, I love [02:34:31] to show them a map like this. And I ask [02:34:34] them, where does that state line up? [02:34:37] >> There is no continuous work. [02:34:40] >> You know, we've got a lot of states in [02:34:41] the United States that need help. So, [02:34:42] I'm not going to weigh in on other [02:34:43] people's states to be totally honest. I [02:34:45] just don't want to pay for it anymore [02:34:46] and just want to fix our own country. [02:34:47] But let me ask you one last question, [02:34:49] which is [02:34:50] >> how Christians are treated in Jerusalem. [02:34:52] I've talked to so many who've been spit [02:34:53] on. [02:34:55] >> Uh so many how many? [02:34:58] >> Uh well, two yesterday. [02:34:59] >> Two. Okay. [02:35:00] >> Yeah. Both Catholic clergy and both told [02:35:02] me the same thing. Anglican clergy. I [02:35:04] interviewed [02:35:05] >> I just had dinner recently with a Greek [02:35:07] uh patriarch. [02:35:09] >> Well, there have been a million stories [02:35:10] about this. [02:35:11] >> Yeah, I know. There are instances where [02:35:13] Christians get heckled. Usually, it's [02:35:14] people who are wearing clerical robes [02:35:16] and they're wearing crosses and it [02:35:17] shouldn't happen. It's horrible. It's as [02:35:19] bad for that to happen as it is to spit [02:35:21] on somebody wearing a kip in New York [02:35:22] City. [02:35:23] >> Great. Terrible. It's horrible. [02:35:24] >> And actually, I should to be fair, there [02:35:26] is, and I just learned this, a Jewish [02:35:28] Israeli group that keeps track of [02:35:31] Christians being spit on in Jerusalem [02:35:34] because they're offended by it. And God [02:35:36] bless them for keeping track and for [02:35:38] being offended by it. But there are an [02:35:40] awful lot of examples of that. And my [02:35:43] question to you, you're against it. Of [02:35:44] course, your Christian clergy [02:35:46] >> horribly against it. What is that? [02:35:47] >> So is the prime minister, the president, [02:35:49] the foreign minister. So is I get it. I [02:35:51] think every [02:35:52] >> No one would defend thinking person. [02:35:54] >> But what is it? Why are they spitting on [02:35:56] Christian? [02:35:56] >> It's very limited. It's very, very [02:35:58] isolated. Where does it come from? But [02:36:00] for the most part, you know what? As [02:36:01] Christians, we have freedom of movement [02:36:03] here, Tucker. I go to church every [02:36:04] Sunday. I play bass guitar in my church [02:36:06] band. I get it. I don't get hassled [02:36:09] being a Christian. Everyone here knows [02:36:11] I'm the first evangelical to be [02:36:13] ambassador to Israel. Do you think they [02:36:15] hate me here? No. [02:36:16] >> Are evangelicals recognized by the state [02:36:18] of Israel? [02:36:19] >> Yeah, [02:36:20] >> they are. Yeah. [02:36:21] >> Okay. [02:36:22] >> And and welcomed and and appreciated. [02:36:24] >> No, but like as a as a religious like [02:36:26] are there evangelical churches in [02:36:28] Israel? [02:36:29] >> My gosh, yes. There's 184,000 Christians [02:36:33] in [02:36:33] >> I know. I know. and much larger than [02:36:36] >> but there are churches that are [02:36:37] non-denominational evangelical here. Of [02:36:40] course there are and and it ranges from [02:36:43] when you say non-denominational some of [02:36:45] them are affiliated Baptist Assembly of [02:36:47] God some of them are truly [02:36:48] non-denominational Pentecostal some are [02:36:50] messianic churches right [02:36:52] >> where um most of the people are um [02:36:57] ethnically Jewish but they are Messianic [02:36:59] they believe in Jesus [02:37:01] >> there are a lot of those churches and [02:37:02] they're spread out all over Israel [02:37:04] >> so um freedom you don't [02:37:06] >> oh I there I know a lot of Christians in [02:37:08] Israel by the way us and I as I said I [02:37:10] really hope I can come back and talk to [02:37:12] more [02:37:13] >> but and come to church with me. [02:37:15] >> Oh, I definitely would love to. [02:37:17] >> Why? And I mean it too. [02:37:19] >> Why would people spit on? Like where [02:37:21] does that come from? [02:37:22] >> I think it's from an evil heart. [02:37:24] >> Yeah. [02:37:24] >> What else would it be? [02:37:25] >> I agree. [02:37:26] >> I mean I don't think anybody would ever [02:37:27] spit on another person even if it was [02:37:30] you know I don't care what a person's [02:37:31] religion is or what a person's [02:37:33] nationality is. I don't hate anybody. I [02:37:35] wouldn't spit on anybody. I wouldn't [02:37:36] heckle anyone. And I find it repulsive. [02:37:40] Nothing about it is defensible. [02:37:42] >> I will say that the one, this was off [02:37:44] camera, but I interviewed this Christian [02:37:47] uh leader here and I said, "Oh, that's [02:37:50] so awful." And he goes, "You know, I [02:37:51] feel blessed [02:37:53] because Jesus was spit on [02:37:55] >> and it's an opportunity for humility for [02:37:57] me." And I thought, "Wow, that's a [02:37:58] Christian." [02:37:59] >> Let me tell you this. I've been coming [02:38:00] in and out of Jerusalem and Israel for [02:38:03] 50, well, soon to be 53 years. Before I [02:38:07] came as ambassador, I made over a [02:38:08] hundred trips here. I've never been spat [02:38:10] on. I've never had someone yell at me. [02:38:13] Um, I've never had an experience where I [02:38:17] felt uncomfortable or that I was [02:38:20] unwelcome. Um, if you spit on someone [02:38:24] wearing a yam in New York City, you go [02:38:26] right to jail. They would not put up [02:38:27] with that for one second. And they do [02:38:28] put up with it here because it still [02:38:29] happens. [02:38:30] >> I'm sure they do go to jail in New York [02:38:31] City. They should. [02:38:33] >> And they should go to jail here. [02:38:34] >> I'm against it. They should go to jail [02:38:36] here. [02:38:36] >> Amen. [02:38:37] >> So, there were all these uh Christian [02:38:39] ministers who were brought over here, [02:38:41] evangelicals, in December. [02:38:44] >> Uh and I think mostly to attack me, but [02:38:47] also probably they had other [02:38:48] >> Oh, they really weren't here to attack [02:38:49] you. [02:38:50] >> I'm just joking. They were attacking me, [02:38:51] but whatever. Yeah. [02:38:52] >> Um [02:38:53] >> and but they were flown over by the [02:38:55] state. The state paid for it and they [02:38:57] had a conference here. I got one of the [02:39:00] guides that they received when they [02:39:02] arrived and I think it's real and it [02:39:05] says don't preach about Jesus when [02:39:07] you're in Israel. We don't we don't [02:39:08] allow that. [02:39:09] >> Don't do that. [02:39:11] >> Really? [02:39:11] >> Yeah. Why would a Christian minister [02:39:15] agree not to preach about Jesus? [02:39:18] >> I'm not sure because I have I've never [02:39:20] heard someone tell another Christian [02:39:22] minister not to do that. [02:39:24] >> Interesting. [02:39:24] >> Good. Well, I was I was totally [02:39:27] >> baffled. What would be the purpose of [02:39:28] going to church as a Christian if you [02:39:30] didn't talk about Jesus? [02:39:31] >> I couldn't agree more. Thank you. [02:39:33] >> I can assure you that that the church I [02:39:34] attend. We talk about Jesus. I mean, we [02:39:36] pray in the name of Jesus. I don't get [02:39:38] >> to anyone else outside the church. Are [02:39:41] you allowed like could I stand on the [02:39:42] corner and just tell people about Jesus [02:39:44] here? [02:39:45] >> You could. I'm not saying you'd get [02:39:47] applause or that people right that's [02:39:48] fine. [02:39:49] >> But I'm but I'm saying there are people [02:39:51] that [02:39:51] >> There's no law against that though. [02:39:53] >> Not that I'm aware of. The only laws [02:39:54] that that I know of, you can't proitize [02:39:58] someone under the age of 18. And you [02:40:00] cannot offer people things of value in [02:40:02] order to cause them to listen to your [02:40:05] presentation. For example, I can't say, [02:40:07] "Hey, for $10, would you let me give you [02:40:09] this gospel track and and scream at [02:40:11] you?" Can't do that, right? [02:40:13] >> Uh I don't know if it's enforced. I'm [02:40:15] I'm not sure. I don't ever hear anyone [02:40:16] arrested for it. [02:40:17] >> But there no there's no law against just [02:40:19] like preaching to people. walk down to [02:40:21] the old city, [02:40:22] >> you'll hear people, you know, out there [02:40:24] preaching on the street. Now, are they [02:40:26] effective? I don't know. I'm not sure [02:40:28] that people are stopping and falling on [02:40:30] their knees and saying, "This is what [02:40:31] I've been waiting for." I don't know. [02:40:33] >> But what I'm telling you is that the [02:40:34] idea that you can't say it. I know that [02:40:36] there are places [02:40:38] >> in the rest of this region where you [02:40:41] can't do that. [02:40:41] >> For sure. [02:40:42] >> Yeah. Cutter, you can't wear a cross in [02:40:45] public. [02:40:45] >> For sure. [02:40:46] >> You can't pray in public. I see a lot of [02:40:48] people wearing crosses in cutter, but in [02:40:50] cutter I don't know. I have, but I don't [02:40:52] know what the laws are. Yeah. [02:40:54] >> In Saudi Arabia, don't think so. [02:40:56] >> I doubt it. [02:40:56] >> The one place is an exception is the [02:40:59] Amiradis. And I love those folks because [02:41:01] they are so [02:41:03] um progressive and they're doing so many [02:41:05] things to change the the template of [02:41:08] things. They have a Abraham house that [02:41:11] is it is a combination synagogue, [02:41:14] church, and mosque. [02:41:16] That's pretty amazing, isn't it? That [02:41:18] they have the same building and they use [02:41:20] it for all three of the major religions [02:41:22] of the world. And I think that's [02:41:23] incredible. Um, but they're really [02:41:26] trying to do things that are beyond what [02:41:30] anyone else in the region. They changed [02:41:31] their textbooks. They teach that Israel [02:41:35] is not a nation they should hate or seek [02:41:38] to annihilate. They've done some [02:41:40] remarkable things. [02:41:41] >> You've been following all this stuff in [02:41:42] the I agree with that. They have a Hindu [02:41:44] temple in Abu Dhabi. You've been [02:41:45] following all this like hate the Muslim [02:41:47] stuff going on in the United States on [02:41:49] the right. [02:41:50] >> I I hear some of it and it's uh it's [02:41:52] unpleasant. We shouldn't hate anybody. [02:41:54] >> Amen. [02:41:55] >> Yeah. It's not a good thing. Hate is a [02:41:57] an evil thing. [02:41:59] >> I don't uh you know sometimes you say, [02:42:01] "I don't support child killing." Okay, I [02:42:03] don't either. But I don't support hate [02:42:05] in any form. I think it's a horrible [02:42:07] thing. [02:42:07] >> That is such a great standard and I want [02:42:10] to hold myself to that and thank you for [02:42:12] saying that out loud. I don't hate you. [02:42:15] >> I hope not. [02:42:17] >> Governor, ambassador, thank you very [02:42:19] much for spending all this time. I [02:42:20] appreciate it. [02:42:21] >> I'm glad you came. Please come back. [02:42:23] >> I will [02:42:23] >> go with me to some places and a church. [02:42:27] I want you to see that as Christians, [02:42:29] we're pretty free here. [02:42:32] >> Amen. [02:42:32] >> Appreciate it. [02:42:34] >> Thank you. [02:42:34] >> And welcome.
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