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[00:00:00] You know, we talked about Tom Sadly [00:00:01] being on the show and I was watching [00:00:03] that episode and I was telling you this [00:00:04] earlier listening to Tom talk about [00:00:06] Moadishu. [00:00:07] >> What hurts me the most about the trash [00:00:10] bags talking to one of his spouses whose [00:00:12] body parts were in that trash bag and [00:00:14] she can't use trash bags. [00:00:16] >> Ever since October 3rd, 1993, he's [00:00:18] probably been through missions that were [00:00:20] 10 times more complicated where all [00:00:21] kinds of other [ __ ] had gone down. That [00:00:23] one mission [00:00:25] seemed to have embedded some kind of [00:00:28] subconscious trauma that like just [00:00:30] unfurled over time. [00:00:32] >> That's where he lives. [00:00:33] >> That's where he lives. [00:00:35] I don't know what it is about the human [00:00:37] psyche, but when you [00:00:39] drop a trauma grenade like that and you [00:00:43] let it slow burn, I guess that's how it [00:00:46] works. It just sits somewhere in there [00:00:49] and [00:00:50] it just slow burns over time over many, [00:00:54] many, many years. And so you can sit [00:00:56] there [00:00:58] and you can say, "I I'm good. You know, [00:01:01] I've dealt with this. I'm I'm good. [00:01:04] Let's move the [ __ ] on." Um, [00:01:07] you really don't move the [ __ ] on. [00:01:11] many years later. Um, [00:01:14] >> what would you say to your dad [00:01:16] >> right now? [00:01:22] >> Um, [00:01:31] I I think I would say [00:01:36] I think I proved you wrong. I think [00:01:40] I think all that [ __ ] that you used to [00:01:42] say about, [00:01:45] you know, how I would end up being a [00:01:48] [ __ ] up somewhere [00:01:50] just didn't pan out. [00:01:55] Like, I've [00:01:57] I've had a pretty good run. And I've got [00:02:01] I've got two sons and a and a [00:02:03] stepdaughter um that I picked up along [00:02:07] the way and they're pretty they're [00:02:10] pretty amazing. [00:02:12] Um [00:02:14] I I think I would also say I wish you [00:02:17] had gone about things differently. I I [00:02:20] wish you had found a different way to [00:02:22] fight your demons. [00:02:25] Um, you know, over the years I I I've [00:02:28] started to build some empathy for him. [00:02:31] He was just dealing with all the [ __ ] [00:02:33] that we were talking about earlier, loss [00:02:34] of identity, [00:02:36] figuring out how to build a connection [00:02:39] with his son that he hadn't seen in a [00:02:40] while. [00:02:42] And um, you know, he only has a certain [00:02:44] set of tools that he has from his [00:02:47] upbringing and all that [ __ ] to deal [00:02:50] with those problems. And when you run [00:02:52] out of those tools and they aren't [00:02:53] working, well, you just you lash out. [00:02:55] You know, you go to the bottle, you go [00:02:58] to the cigarettes, you let the anger get [00:03:00] a hold of you. And that's what he did. [00:03:05] Those are the two things I would say. [00:03:08] Many years later, I was Man, I just want [00:03:11] to ask [00:03:12] >> Yeah. I mean, [00:03:16] I'm really hesitant to do this because I [00:03:18] don't I don't like interjecting my own [00:03:20] [ __ ] but [00:03:23] there's a there's a handful of parallels [00:03:25] that that we have, you know, growing up. [00:03:28] I didn't grow up in extreme poverty, and [00:03:30] it wasn't nearly as abusive as what it [00:03:32] sounds like yours was, but I got the [00:03:35] belt, I got the fist, I got the hand, I [00:03:38] got the foot. [ __ ] got it all. [00:03:40] >> Yep. And um and I also got the [00:03:44] you're a piece of [ __ ] I'm not paying [00:03:46] for your school. I'm not doing this. I'm [00:03:48] not doing that. And my brother and [00:03:50] sister were always, you know, younger [00:03:53] brother and sister were always they were [00:03:56] good. And uh [00:04:00] you know, but at the end I think that [00:04:02] [ __ ] motivated me. Well, I don't [00:04:04] think it motivated me. I know it [ __ ] [00:04:06] motivated me. And so, you know, [00:04:13] do you think maybe some of that stuff [00:04:16] that your dad dished out to you may have [00:04:18] been a gift in the long run? [00:04:19] >> Dude, it lit a [ __ ] fire inside me [00:04:21] that burns to this day. [00:04:24] >> Yeah, me too. [00:04:31] >> Double-edged sword. [00:04:33] >> Yeah, man. [00:04:33] >> Cuz who's to say how I would would have [00:04:35] turned out if, you know, I had a [00:04:38] perfect home life and childhood and all [00:04:42] that [ __ ] or you you know [00:04:44] >> could have been a could have been a [00:04:46] gangbanger in Southern California. [00:04:48] >> Yeah. [00:04:48] >> Yeah. [00:04:50] >> Yeah. [00:04:51] >> It's [ __ ] wild thinking about that [00:04:53] [ __ ] isn't it? [00:04:56] >> Yeah. [00:04:57] >> You didn't have the drive to make your [00:04:58] dad proud and to prove him wrong. [00:05:00] >> I know. [00:05:00] >> You probably wouldn't be sitting here, [00:05:02] >> dude. And there's so many guys that have [00:05:03] similar stories, you know, like I was [00:05:05] watching um you know Jay uh SAS guy. [00:05:10] >> Yeah. And [00:05:10] >> um you know, he talks about the moment [00:05:12] on the beach with his dad where he's [00:05:14] like, "You're never going to be a [00:05:15] [ __ ] Roman marine, you know, and that [00:05:18] that [ __ ] [00:05:19] >> lit the fuse, you know." [00:05:21] >> Yeah. [00:05:21] >> Probably similar moment for you. [00:05:24] Something lit the fuse. And for me, it [00:05:25] was [00:05:27] I don't know if it was any particular [00:05:28] moment, but it was definitely his death. [00:05:33] was like, [00:05:36] I didn't get to show him [00:05:39] in life what I could do. So, I'm going [00:05:42] to [ __ ] show him in death and maybe [00:05:45] he will be up there looking down and [00:05:49] see. [00:05:54] I was climbing Mount Reineer many years [00:05:56] ago with some buddies and we were going [00:06:00] up a particularly steep route and I was [00:06:04] pretty gassed by the time we got, you [00:06:06] know, high up and um we were near the [00:06:10] summit and uh but we still had like 45 [00:06:14] minutes or so to go and just like [00:06:16] [ __ ] trudging through the through the [00:06:19] glacier, [00:06:20] gassing um you know cuz I [00:06:25] I was into CrossFit at the time. Like my [00:06:26] endurance work wasn't wasn't great. And [00:06:30] um I was like, I don't know if I can [00:06:32] [ __ ] do this, man. Uh and so I was, [00:06:35] you know, I was probably a couple [00:06:36] minutes away from calling out to the [00:06:39] rest of the guys on the rope team and [00:06:40] being like, [00:06:42] I can't breathe. Like I we might need to [00:06:45] [ __ ] go down. And [00:06:49] I remember feeling that. And then I [00:06:52] remember feeling [00:07:01] [ __ ] told myself not to not to do [00:07:04] this. Um, [00:07:06] >> it's all good, man. [00:07:07] >> I remember feeling my dad's arm on my [00:07:11] back. [00:07:13] >> Holy [ __ ] [00:07:17] Going like this across my mountaineering [00:07:20] pack. and helping me up the [ __ ] last [00:07:25] 45 minutes up out reer. [00:07:31] That's when I knew like, yeah, he is [00:07:32] [ __ ] up there and he's watching [00:07:35] everything I do. So, you know, [00:07:38] I try and try and live up to [00:07:42] the [00:07:45] I guess burden of [00:07:48] being not being what he wanted me to be, [00:07:51] but like [00:07:54] I just want to be a good person, you [00:07:55] know, someone someone that's worthy of [00:07:57] him being proud of. Um, certainly I [00:08:01] haven't [ __ ] gotten it right all the [00:08:02] time. Um, [00:08:05] but I try. [00:08:09] Yep. [00:08:12] That's [ __ ] awesome, dude. [00:08:17] Yeah, that was that was the first time I [00:08:20] remember thinking, "Oh [ __ ] like [00:08:23] there's something else. There's [00:08:25] something else." And they can reach out [00:08:28] and touch us if they want. [00:08:31] And you could say, this goes back to our [00:08:33] previous conversation, you could say, [00:08:34] "Oh, it's just some [ __ ] neurons in [00:08:36] your brain like that, you know, [00:08:38] simulated [00:08:40] >> that that gave that gave you the feeling [00:08:42] that you wanted. You wanted to feel your [00:08:44] dad helping you up the top of Mount [00:08:46] Reineer, [00:08:50] maybe." [00:08:51] I don't I don't think that's true, [00:08:53] though. [00:08:53] >> I don't either. [00:08:57] I've had way too many things like that [00:08:59] happen to me to think that that's just [00:09:01] some [ __ ] simulation or [ __ ] [00:09:04] whatever. No way, man. No [ __ ] way. [00:09:11] There was um [00:09:13] buddy of mine [00:09:16] passed away uh a few years ago and uh [00:09:21] he he was the type of dude that [00:09:24] you talk to the guy and you just you [00:09:27] felt like you've known him for years. [00:09:28] He's that kind of guy. Had that kind of [00:09:29] warmth about him. His name was Ethan [00:09:33] Swyler. And um [00:09:38] I saw him after I had left the military [00:09:42] at a beach party at uh Fort Walton [00:09:45] Beach, like right outside her Herbler [00:09:46] Field. And um we were at a buddy's [00:09:50] retirement and he hadn't seen me in a [00:09:52] while, right? I'd been a civilian at [00:09:53] this point. I was a palunteer. Um you [00:09:55] know, I was jet setting around [ __ ] [00:09:57] living the tech bro life, you know? So, [00:10:00] I had some [00:10:03] I wasn't as scruffy as I look today, [00:10:05] basically. And [00:10:07] um I had some like nice clothes on and [00:10:10] [ __ ] I had like some nice sunglasses [00:10:11] on. And he looks at me, he's like, [00:10:13] "Well, look at you, [ __ ] Mr. [00:10:14] Hollywood." [00:10:16] And uh then we just, you know, we [00:10:18] bullshitted and and hung out. And um [00:10:22] couple years after that, I get the call, [00:10:24] hey, Ethan [00:10:26] Ethan passed away. I go to his funeral [00:10:29] in Salt Lake City. We put him in the [00:10:32] ground at in this beautiful [00:10:36] uh cemetery at the base of the Wasach [00:10:38] Mountains outside of Salt Lake City. [00:10:41] And uh and I drive back to to California [00:10:45] and I'm driving through Lake Tahoe and [00:10:47] um I stop at a bar [00:10:50] um [00:10:52] and there's no one in this bar. It's a [00:10:54] [ __ ] like Tuesday night or some [ __ ] [00:10:58] There's no cars outside. It's a [ __ ] [00:11:00] desolate bar in South Lake Tahoe. No [00:11:02] one's there. I walk in, there's one [00:11:05] bartender on the other side of the bar, [00:11:08] and he's leaning over and he's uh like [00:11:11] cleaning glasses. [00:11:14] Zero other people in the bar, just me, [00:11:17] bartender. I walk in, he's cleaning his [00:11:21] glasses, [00:11:22] and then he stops [00:11:24] and he looks up and he looks up. He [00:11:28] goes, "Hello, Mr. Hollywood." And he [00:11:30] looks back down, keeps cleaning his [00:11:33] glasses. Holy [ __ ] And then he looks up [00:11:36] at me, who had just walked in the door, [00:11:38] and then he goes, "Hey, can I help you?" [00:11:41] And I'm like, "What the what the [ __ ] [00:11:45] just happened here?" It was like [00:11:48] It was like someone [00:11:50] took control of that dude's body for [00:11:52] like 5 seconds, [00:11:54] sent a message, and then let go. 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