Charlie Kirk’s Most Memorable Abortion Debates of 2025

[00:00:00] I wanted to respond to a kind of a [00:00:01] specific comment you made. I hope you'll [00:00:02] be open to that. I do remember I I'm [00:00:05] sorry. I'm not sure what university you [00:00:06] did say this specifically at, but you [00:00:08] did state that you believe that the [00:00:10] Holocaust was not as bad as abortion. [00:00:13] So, in other words, you believe that [00:00:14] abortion is worse than the Holocaust. [00:00:16] >> Uh, so they're they're both distinct [00:00:19] evils with some similarities. [00:00:22] >> The Holocaust in some ways was far more [00:00:24] evil, but as far as magnitude, the [00:00:26] abortion crime is more evil. And I can [00:00:28] explain more if you'd like. Okay. Sure. [00:00:30] So I did I did do some research. It is [00:00:33] found that 1973 Roie Wade was ratified. [00:00:38] Correct. And so one thing that you did [00:00:40] fail to mention was that specifically I [00:00:42] numbers are just larger because abortion [00:00:45] has been going on for a longer amount of [00:00:46] time. If the mass genocide right that [00:00:49] the Holocaust was would have continued. [00:00:52] It was about 6 million killed per year. [00:00:54] That would have progressed to 12 [00:00:55] million. That would have progressed to [00:00:56] 18 million. But it was ended because [00:00:58] again it's a totalitarian form of mass [00:01:00] genocide. And so I wanted to ask you [00:01:02] when you look at the 93% of women who do [00:01:06] get abortions, it's 58,590,000 [00:01:08] that get abortions the first trimester. [00:01:11] Correct. And there is there is [00:01:12] suggestive data that states that 12 uh [00:01:16] sorry 12 year weeks, excuse me, of [00:01:18] gestation um there is significant data [00:01:21] that has said that pain receptors may [00:01:23] not have yet been developed. And so that [00:01:25] would mean that outside of the women who [00:01:28] received abortions first trimester, it [00:01:30] would be 88,200 per year after the first [00:01:33] trimester, that the babies are are [00:01:35] likely experiencing pain. I will I will [00:01:36] admit to that. However, I am pretty sure [00:01:39] that every single person in the [00:01:42] Holocaust, which would have been 2 [00:01:44] million per year, uh, as far as the [00:01:47] people who could feel pain, did did feel [00:01:50] that pain. And so I would I would like [00:01:52] to ask you um actually I think I would [00:01:54] just like to tell you I think that that [00:01:56] 2 million actual people uh kids grown [00:02:01] people people who were starved work to [00:02:03] death I think that that is more [00:02:04] significant than the 88,200 [00:02:07] life forms if you will because again [00:02:10] 58,590,000 [00:02:12] of them are probably not feeling that [00:02:15] any pain. [00:02:17] >> Okay. Yeah. But a a human life is a [00:02:19] human life. Regardless of how advanced [00:02:20] it is or whether it can feel pain, it [00:02:22] still has moral worth. [00:02:23] >> Right. But I just I like I found it [00:02:25] interesting. You said it's worse. So I I [00:02:27] think [00:02:28] >> So it's worse in numbers. Okay. [00:02:29] >> The Holocaust was worse for two other [00:02:32] different reasons. [00:02:32] >> Sure. Go ahead. [00:02:33] >> It actually eliminated such a big [00:02:36] portion of Jewish population. Nearly [00:02:39] half of all living Jews were basically [00:02:41] vaporized. [00:02:43] And secondly, there was an intent and an [00:02:45] evil of trying to eradicate an entire [00:02:48] religious people. That is not [00:02:51] unparalleled, but we've only seen that [00:02:52] happen four or five times in history. [00:02:55] >> But just to reiterate the point, [00:02:58] >> what? And maybe you could tell me a [00:03:00] four-week old baby who may or may not [00:03:02] feel pain. Let me let me take your [00:03:04] argument and say the four-we old baby [00:03:06] cannot feel pain. [00:03:06] >> A four-week old baby that's outside of [00:03:08] the in the uterine. [00:03:10] >> Understood. So what is the moral [00:03:12] difference of that four-week old baby [00:03:14] versus you [00:03:16] >> versus me? [00:03:16] >> Yeah. Why? Why? Why do you matter more [00:03:18] than that four-week old baby? [00:03:20] >> Because I have uh past experience, I [00:03:22] also have future experiences. Uh that [00:03:24] baby, while it has future experiences. [00:03:25] Nope. Shut up. Nope. You are incorrect. [00:03:27] That baby does not have any past [00:03:29] experiences. Um and therefore I believe [00:03:31] that yeah, I've probably affected and [00:03:33] impacted more people in both a positive [00:03:34] and a negative way than that four-week [00:03:36] old uterus has. [00:03:38] >> I'm sorry, not uterus, embryo. Yeah. So, [00:03:40] just to make sure I'm clear that that [00:03:43] your moral worldview [00:03:46] >> is that people gain more value the older [00:03:49] they get. [00:03:50] >> Not necessarily the older they get. I [00:03:51] would say that people gain more [00:03:52] >> No, you just said you said that based on [00:03:53] what they've done. So, like an 82y old [00:03:56] has more moral value than an 8-year-old. [00:03:58] In fact, usually it depends. Just to [00:04:00] interrupt, the West actually was built [00:04:01] on the opposite idea that we sacrificed [00:04:03] the old for the young, but during co we [00:04:06] sacrificed the young for the old [00:04:07] >> and we actually inverted it. It used to [00:04:09] be that the grandparents would fall on [00:04:10] the sword so that kids could live longer [00:04:12] lives. [00:04:13] >> So I'm just trying to understand like [00:04:15] and from where do you get that moral [00:04:17] worldview? Why why do you believe that? [00:04:19] >> Well, I wouldn't even say that. What I'm [00:04:21] arguing is that it's it's based off of [00:04:23] how many people you know. What I'm [00:04:25] saying is realistically if you are [00:04:27] walking around Hold on. If you are [00:04:28] walking around right and you have a [00:04:30] four-week old uterus, I'm so sorry I [00:04:33] keep saying uterus. I can or embryo. [00:04:36] Okay. uh in your stomach and then you [00:04:39] have uh let's just take a uh [00:04:41] four-year-old kid. All right. Um there [00:04:44] are number one there are more people who [00:04:47] most likely know that four-year-old kid. [00:04:49] That four-year-old kid has the ability [00:04:51] to understand fear, the fact that its [00:04:53] life is in danger. And so therefore, [00:04:56] there is probably there's probably more [00:04:58] reason right to not ter uh terminate the [00:05:01] life of that four-year-old rather than [00:05:02] the life of the four-week old. [00:05:04] So there there there's so much wrong [00:05:06] with that argument. [00:05:08] >> So under that belief system, [00:05:10] >> sure [00:05:12] >> if if by government decree they said [00:05:14] let's eliminate the down syndrome kids. [00:05:16] >> Uh do down syndrome people still have [00:05:18] the ability to feel pain, recognize [00:05:19] fear, recognize sadness. [00:05:21] >> But but it's yeah it's highly diminished [00:05:22] but just this is not a hypothetical [00:05:24] actually. Okay. [00:05:24] >> It's actually you must get an abortion [00:05:26] in Iceland if you have a down syndrome [00:05:28] baby. You must. [00:05:29] >> Yeah. That's that's really terrible. [00:05:30] >> Okay. We agree. Yeah. Right. But why is [00:05:32] it terrible? the abortion, it doesn't [00:05:34] matter that much, right? It's just like [00:05:35] a it's like a clump of cells. Like, why [00:05:37] not? [00:05:37] >> If if it is going to directly impact [00:05:39] either the mother's life or the baby's [00:05:40] life, then yes, I do think that abortion [00:05:41] is an important issue. I don't think the [00:05:42] government should ever be able to come [00:05:44] in and say, "Hey, you're required to [00:05:45] have an abortion." In fact, the whole [00:05:46] slogan for the pro-choice movement is [00:05:48] your body, your choice. And I know [00:05:49] you're going to disagree with that, but [00:05:50] that is the whole point. So, what it's [00:05:51] saying is it's not left up to the [00:05:52] government to decide if they should or [00:05:54] shouldn't get an abortion in Iceland. [00:05:55] Yeah, that's a problem because it's [00:05:56] entirely left up to the government. [00:05:58] That's an issue. [00:05:59] >> Let me take it to another extreme if [00:06:00] that's okay. [00:06:01] >> Sure. because this is full freedom, [00:06:03] right? So, you're saying, "Hey, my body, [00:06:04] my choice." [00:06:05] >> I'm I'm actually saying uh for the first [00:06:07] trimester after that. [00:06:08] >> Fair enough. Let's just say that this is [00:06:10] a different moral argument that I'm [00:06:11] interested to have you play around with. [00:06:13] Okay. [00:06:13] >> Should it be legal [00:06:14] >> if a mom finds out she's having a girl? [00:06:19] >> Okay. [00:06:19] >> But she wants a boy. Should she be able [00:06:21] to abort that three-week old? [00:06:23] >> Yes. [00:06:29] Are you kidding? [00:06:33] >> Think about it. Think about what you [00:06:34] just said. [00:06:35] >> Think about what you just said. [00:06:38] >> Why? [00:06:40] >> Can that child directly survive outside [00:06:42] her body? [00:06:44] >> Well, eventually. Yes. I mean, again, so [00:06:48] we talk about stages of development. [00:06:50] >> What is the first step of human [00:06:52] development? I mean obviously it's [00:06:55] whenever the two pieces of DNA they [00:06:58] >> the egg and the sperm meet and they [00:07:00] collaborate. [00:07:00] >> So therefore if human development begins [00:07:02] at fertilization conception [00:07:04] >> sure [00:07:05] >> so then shouldn't the human be protected [00:07:07] at conception? [00:07:08] >> Well I don't even think it's going to be [00:07:10] protected if if the baby is going to be [00:07:12] born to a mother who's like well dang it [00:07:14] my kid's uh not a girl it's a boy or [00:07:17] vice versa then I don't even think they [00:07:18] should be born to that parent in the [00:07:20] first place. So [00:07:21] >> but just just to But [00:07:24] >> so what you are arguing for is eugenics. [00:07:26] Just so we are clear. It is it is not [00:07:29] just illegal. It is like it is [00:07:31] grotesqually illegal what you are [00:07:32] talking about which is sex selective [00:07:34] abortion. Basically where you get a DNA [00:07:37] result at 3 weeks [00:07:38] >> and you could be like no not the hair [00:07:40] color I like terminated. Not I wanted a [00:07:43] boy. So basically your view of pregnancy [00:07:46] is no different than customizing a Ford [00:07:48] Explorer. [00:07:52] No, my my whole point again [00:07:54] >> No, no, no, no. You got to emphasize on [00:07:56] it. Your view is that the the baby if [00:07:59] all of a sudden you get a blood test [00:08:00] that you don't like that it's by the [00:08:02] way, you could tell a lot of your baby's [00:08:04] DNA test now. How tall it's going to be, [00:08:06] >> it's average IQ, brown eyes, green eyes, [00:08:08] blue eyes, whether it's going to be [00:08:10] likely overweight, obese, whether or not [00:08:12] it's going to be a boy or a girl. So, if [00:08:14] you get anything that you don't like, [00:08:16] you say, "My body, my choice, get it out [00:08:18] of the shopping cart." [00:08:19] >> Well, yeah. And to be honest, it's it is [00:08:21] probably it's very ethically [00:08:23] problematic. Yeah. But if we are have if [00:08:25] we have advanced to a society where that [00:08:27] can happen. Number one, we're already in [00:08:30] pretty big trouble if we can if we can [00:08:32] literally say, "Okay, the baby's going [00:08:33] to have blue eyes, green eyes." [00:08:34] >> No, no, no. It's not We're already [00:08:35] there. We're there. So, it's just you [00:08:37] understand it's already [00:08:37] >> I mean, you can like Yeah, you can look [00:08:38] at a punit table, but it's not actually [00:08:39] going to be actually defined. [00:08:41] >> No, no, it's very defined. You could get [00:08:42] a three-week old blood test and you [00:08:44] could tell right around 3 to six weeks [00:08:46] almost everything with a very very high [00:08:48] predictive correlation of how your kid [00:08:50] is going to operate grow. Now of course [00:08:53] there are some issues with it but the [00:08:54] sex is highly highly accurate. It's 90 [00:08:57] it's the you take the women the urine of [00:08:59] the mom within 48 hours you could tell. [00:09:01] >> So what I I just I want to make sure [00:09:04] we're clear. You came here asking about [00:09:06] the Holocaust. I'm going to complete the [00:09:08] full circle. What you just talked about, [00:09:10] sex selective abortion, is Nazi eugenics [00:09:13] philosophy, which is that we will [00:09:15] eliminate those that we don't want. [00:09:18] >> Interesting. You're you're exactly [00:09:20] right. Uh you did get me on that one. Um [00:09:23] yeah, cuz [00:09:27] yeah, I'm I'm not going to like sit up [00:09:29] here and pretend that that you got me on [00:09:30] that one. Uh no, realistically, like if [00:09:32] we're really going to full circle, and [00:09:33] I'm going to sit here and think about [00:09:34] it, no, you shouldn't be able to kill [00:09:36] your baby. just because you don't like [00:09:37] the gender or whatever. And I listen and [00:09:39] I apologize for taking it to that [00:09:40] extent. I [00:09:41] >> No, it's not your extent. I want I want [00:09:43] to offer you grace. Thank you for saying [00:09:44] that. I appreciate that. [00:09:45] >> Okay. [00:09:46] >> Um but I just I want to say as far as uh [00:09:49] like if we are if we are balancing the [00:09:51] numbers, I think that the amount of [00:09:53] lives that were terminated are I think [00:09:55] they are more significant uh as far as [00:09:57] the Holocaust because every single [00:09:58] person did absolutely have the ability [00:10:00] to feel pain than they were whenever it [00:10:02] was the 58 million. [00:10:03] >> Fair enough. So here's our view and [00:10:04] we'll close with this. [00:10:05] >> Yes, absolutely. is that if there is a [00:10:06] three-year-old in the audience [00:10:08] >> that has very few friends and might be [00:10:10] in, you know, living on some homestead [00:10:12] or a 30-year-old that's very connected [00:10:14] and very wealthy [00:10:15] >> in the moral worldview economy that we [00:10:17] have, no moral difference. [00:10:20] >> If there's [00:10:20] >> because they're they're like directly [00:10:22] living like outside of their mother's [00:10:23] womb. Whereas if you have [00:10:24] >> Let me go let me go a step further. If [00:10:26] there is a 3-week old in uterero, [00:10:28] >> I mean, it's still leeching off of the [00:10:29] mother's resources. So, I'm not sure [00:10:30] entirely how much of its own being it [00:10:32] is. Well, again, so you leech for the [00:10:34] first three years of life. I have a [00:10:36] 10-month-old. He doesn't hunt and [00:10:38] gather. He doesn't he doesn't go work. [00:10:40] >> He's not he's not directly attached to [00:10:42] your I assume to your wife's to your [00:10:44] wife's body. [00:10:45] >> In order for his survival, he has to be [00:10:46] directly attached to something. Somebody [00:10:48] has to give the baby breast milk formula [00:10:51] or [00:10:52] >> Okay. Formula. Yeah. But can it [00:10:53] >> or something? [00:10:54] >> Okay. So, here's here is your wife. Here [00:10:55] is the baby. Can the baby just be apart [00:10:59] from your wife and and exist [00:11:01] >> at at 22 weeks? Yes. So for 22 weeks [00:11:04] there is there is an umbilical cord. So [00:11:07] what you say leech I say give the the [00:11:11] mom gives life [00:11:12] >> to the the the baby. [00:11:14] >> I'm not I'm not arguing outside of first [00:11:16] and what we say and not even a religious [00:11:19] standpoint because the religious is [00:11:20] easy. Just from a moral standpoint, we [00:11:22] were all given life by a mom who gave us [00:11:25] nutrients through an umbilical cord and [00:11:28] we should give that back. That is just [00:11:29] the moral cycle of life, right? Which is [00:11:31] that that which is given that which is [00:11:33] much expected. [00:11:35] >> And so again, human development [00:11:37] irrefutably this even a proabort will [00:11:40] say this human development has a [00:11:42] starting point. [00:11:43] >> It does. It absolutely does. [00:11:44] >> Yes, we agree. And it's conception. [00:11:46] >> And we can use all these different [00:11:48] words. We can use fetus, we can use [00:11:49] embryo, we can use little one, whatever. [00:11:51] >> Sure. [00:11:51] >> But it's all still a human being. It [00:11:53] doesn't go from rhinoceros to human [00:11:55] being at like 10 weeks. It doesn't go [00:11:56] from crocodile to human being. It's all [00:11:59] human development. Therefore, using [00:12:00] reason that we all have if it's human [00:12:03] development and it is a human being, [00:12:05] human rights. The first of all human [00:12:06] rights is the protection of life. [00:12:09] >> Interesting. But okay. So, do you agree [00:12:10] that like uh let's say you go into a [00:12:13] doctor's office, you have a 10-year-old [00:12:15] and then you have a 22-y old. the [00:12:17] 22-year-old is going to be allowed to [00:12:19] submit to more testing as long uh [00:12:21] without parental consent than that uh [00:12:24] 10-year-old or whoever I said was. So, I [00:12:26] don't know. I think honestly it's again [00:12:28] and I I don't know like I I [00:12:30] >> you have a lot of thinking to do about [00:12:31] this and that's okay because here's and [00:12:33] this is not your fault. The pro-abortion [00:12:35] worldview will collapse if you remove [00:12:38] feelings and you remove hyper [00:12:40] emotionality. There is no defense using [00:12:42] agreed upon western reason which you [00:12:44] believe in in western morality which is [00:12:46] we don't kill people smaller than us. We [00:12:48] do not eradicate those that are you know [00:12:51] just because they don't have as much [00:12:52] money or as much worth. We believe in [00:12:54] universal human equality which of course [00:12:55] you believe in right? Universal human [00:12:57] equality is like the overarching big [00:12:59] western ideal which and it by the way [00:13:01] it's in our declaration of independence. [00:13:02] All men are created equal. If you [00:13:04] believe in universal human equality [00:13:06] there is no room for abortion in that [00:13:07] society. It does not exist. Well, I [00:13:10] mean, okay, we we can [00:13:12] >> I'm just saying it's fine. You have a [00:13:13] lot to think about with that. [00:13:13] >> I think we're gonna I mean, I think you [00:13:14] do, too. But okay, I'm happy to. No, [00:13:16] that's fine. I mean, I've thought about [00:13:18] this my whole life, so yeah. [00:13:21] Listen, I appreciate you, Charlie. [00:13:22] Again, I want to apologize about what I [00:13:23] said earlier about that. [00:13:25] >> When we cut the video, we'll we'll we'll [00:13:26] put your your second answer as well as [00:13:29] your first one. We'll be fair to that. [00:13:30] Okay. Thank you very much. [00:13:31] >> Sure, you will. [00:13:32] >> No, I will. I'll just be honest. Thank [00:13:33] you. [00:13:34] >> Hi, my name is Kiana. Um, I'm not here [00:13:36] to change your mind or anything. I'm [00:13:38] just mostly here to ask like why do you [00:13:41] believe that abortion has become such a [00:13:43] political and dividing issue in [00:13:46] specifically the last few years? [00:13:48] >> Well, the repeal of Row versus Wade for [00:13:50] sure is one of the reasons. And [00:13:52] secondly, there has been a not so subtle [00:13:56] dehumanization movement over the last 60 [00:13:58] years that you're allowed that makes it [00:14:01] acceptable to crush human beings smaller [00:14:03] than you if you so choose. [00:14:06] >> Okay. It's mostly like I believe that [00:14:09] the initiative of those beliefs have [00:14:11] become more hateful towards women. And [00:14:14] um I'm just kind of wondering like what [00:14:16] is the incentive with all of these [00:14:18] points? Like why should we not have the [00:14:21] option to choose? [00:14:23] >> Do I or do let's do do you have the [00:14:25] choose the agency or the choice to [00:14:27] murder? [00:14:28] >> Well, yes. There's consequences, but I [00:14:31] do have the [00:14:31] >> under the law. [00:14:33] >> No. Okay. So therefore, that's our [00:14:34] position. Well, not necessarily. It's [00:14:36] more so like in the um aspects of when [00:14:39] you know the mother's life is in danger [00:14:41] and you know those special circumstances [00:14:43] like why can we not have those options [00:14:45] in those situations either because no [00:14:47] one is inherently going out saying I [00:14:49] just want to kill babies. That's not [00:14:50] anyone's point here. [00:14:52] >> It's more so the point [00:14:53] >> you should look at a Planned Parenthood [00:14:54] ad. I mean that's basically what they [00:14:56] do. But so so less than half of 1% of [00:14:58] all abortions have to do with after life [00:15:00] of the mother. 99 and a half% of all [00:15:03] abortions have to do with just a form of [00:15:06] birth control. It's a it's a last catch [00:15:08] option because whatever type of birth [00:15:10] control you were using didn't work. [00:15:12] >> Would you want someone who is not [00:15:14] necessarily stable or ready to bring a [00:15:17] child into this world and provide that [00:15:19] child the life it deserves? Would you [00:15:21] want them to still bring that child into [00:15:23] the world? [00:15:23] >> Without a doubt. Every every life has a [00:15:26] moral obligation to be able to live. So, [00:15:28] I just want to play this out. So you say [00:15:31] it's all about the light the the choice [00:15:33] of the mother. At what point does the [00:15:36] human being in uterero become a human [00:15:38] being in your mind because it must be [00:15:40] not human than human? When does it cross [00:15:42] that threshold? [00:15:44] >> Um I would say more so in the second to [00:15:46] third trimester. [00:15:47] >> Got it. So just be respectful guys. But [00:15:50] why then? I mean what what happens in [00:15:52] the second and third trimester [00:15:53] specifically that all of a sudden human [00:15:55] being you know [00:15:56] >> well it goes from a clump of cells in [00:15:59] the first trimester to the heart being [00:16:01] developed in the brain and [00:16:03] >> when does the heart begin [00:16:05] >> I believe in the second trimester [00:16:06] >> that's 6 weeks that's the first [00:16:07] trimester right so a heartbeat is [00:16:09] detectable between 6 to 8 weeks that's [00:16:10] two months the second trimester does not [00:16:13] start till 18 weeks brain waves are [00:16:15] detectable at 10 weeks so tell me why [00:16:19] second and third trimester [00:16:20] Because that's when the baby is more so [00:16:22] developed is what I'm saying. Like when [00:16:25] in that argument you had a I'm not sure [00:16:28] when you were shown the pictures of the [00:16:30] fetus of a dolphin fetus and a human's [00:16:32] fetus. You weren't able to to tell the [00:16:34] difference. [00:16:34] >> But that doesn't mean it was not a human [00:16:36] being though. [00:16:37] >> But that's what I'm saying. It's not [00:16:39] developed. It's the same kind of [00:16:41] concept. Like if it comes down to that [00:16:44] person's life and their well-being, why [00:16:46] should [00:16:47] >> we're talking about two different [00:16:47] things. So life of the mother is [00:16:49] extremely rare. [00:16:50] >> It's not that rare though. [00:16:52] >> How many times do you think that there [00:16:53] are abortions for the life of the mother [00:16:54] out of a 1.5 million abortions every [00:16:56] year? [00:16:57] >> How much do you think? [00:16:58] >> I'm not sure with a [00:17:00] >> less less than 500 [00:17:02] >> out of out of 1.5 million. [00:17:04] >> And by the way, a vast majority of those [00:17:06] are babies that could have been [00:17:07] delivered by cacaian section. [00:17:09] >> Do you know what a cescareian section [00:17:10] is? Okay. So understand that if a baby's [00:17:12] at 28 weeks and they say it's life of [00:17:14] the mother, why would you terminate the [00:17:16] baby when you could deliver it by [00:17:17] C-section? [00:17:18] >> Well, if you can deliver it by [00:17:20] >> No, but they're not even given that [00:17:21] option. Instead, they go to an [00:17:22] abortionist. [00:17:23] >> So then that's essentially an issue in [00:17:25] that we should address within these [00:17:27] politics because no one is saying to [00:17:29] kill kids. No one is saying to kill [00:17:31] babies. [00:17:31] >> But let's first of all there late term [00:17:33] abortion is very common and very [00:17:35] frequent. [00:17:35] >> It's not that common though. That's [00:17:37] >> again how many times do you think it [00:17:39] happens a year? late term of abortions. [00:17:41] Yeah, I don't think it happens [00:17:42] >> tens of thousands of times a year. [00:17:44] >> You can't say that um when it comes to [00:17:47] the life of the mother. [00:17:48] >> But but I I I do I am curious though [00:17:51] just more because you said about [00:17:53] well-being. [00:17:54] >> Why should a why should any person be [00:17:57] able to terminate another human being if [00:18:00] you feel as if your well-being will be [00:18:03] jeopardized? Why should should I be able [00:18:05] to terminate someone in this audience if [00:18:06] they're going to get in my well-being [00:18:07] way? By what moral? But no, but apply a [00:18:10] universal moral standard to the abortion [00:18:12] argument and help me understand it. [00:18:15] >> If I were to get pregnant right now, I [00:18:17] would not be able to give birth to that [00:18:20] child and give it the life it deserves [00:18:22] because [00:18:22] >> how did you get pregnant? [00:18:24] >> How did [00:18:25] >> Accidents still happen, guys? Like you [00:18:26] can you can be on birth control. You can [00:18:29] still [00:18:29] >> This is important point, guys. But but [00:18:31] wait a second. But then shouldn't you [00:18:33] take responsibility for your orgasms? [00:18:36] >> What the [00:18:38] No. [00:18:39] >> So, let me be clear that you want to [00:18:41] have all the fun but none of the [00:18:43] responsibility. [00:18:44] >> No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm [00:18:45] saying accidents still happen. [00:18:47] >> No, of course. And you know what happens [00:18:48] when accidents involve other human [00:18:50] beings? You don't terminate them. [00:18:56] >> You You don't get to eliminate another [00:18:58] human being because of an accident. [00:18:59] That's not a moral code we live by. [00:19:01] >> Correct. But why do you not care about [00:19:04] the um the outcome of that human being's [00:19:07] life? [00:19:08] >> Of course I do. No, I mean [00:19:10] >> but you don't because when it if I were [00:19:12] to give birth to a kid right now and [00:19:14] it's living in horrible conditions cuz [00:19:16] I'm just a college student, why do you [00:19:18] not care? Why do you not put in funding [00:19:20] into those um establishments? [00:19:23] >> Every let me everything that we believe [00:19:25] in is about the betterment of that kid's [00:19:27] life. Safer streets for more more police [00:19:29] on the streets. want to have better [00:19:30] schools and school choice that kid can [00:19:32] read and learn. Stronger churches so [00:19:34] that that kid can learn about a strong [00:19:35] ethical [00:19:36] >> if I can't afford a house for this kid. [00:19:39] >> Well, but hold on. I'm going through the [00:19:40] list of all the things that can happen. [00:19:42] Curtailing inflation so you can have [00:19:43] purchasing power for that kid. The point [00:19:44] being everything that we as [00:19:45] conservatives believe in is making it [00:19:47] easier to have children in this country. [00:19:49] And just because we don't want more [00:19:50] government money spent on something [00:19:52] which actually makes it harder does not [00:19:53] mean we don't want that thing. But it's [00:19:55] also it's a red herring argument that [00:19:57] we're talking about the morality of the [00:19:59] elimination of a life. Right. Right. And [00:20:01] so I just want to be totally [00:20:03] understanding of clear that what species [00:20:06] is the being when it's at 6 weeks [00:20:10] >> to me. I believe that it's a clump of [00:20:12] cells. [00:20:12] >> No. [00:20:13] >> It's a it's a zygote. [00:20:14] >> No, I know. But no, but the the species. [00:20:16] >> Next question. [00:20:18] >> I'm sorry. What was [00:20:18] >> the species? So everything on the animal [00:20:21] kingdom has a species type. So, we are [00:20:23] homo sapiens and you could be an [00:20:25] alligator, but so what what is it? Is it [00:20:27] a homo? [00:20:27] >> Okay, it would be a homo sapien. [00:20:29] >> So, if it's a homo sapien, it's human. [00:20:31] So, then shouldn't it be given human [00:20:32] rights? [00:20:33] >> But it hasn't my point is it hasn't been [00:20:36] developed. It's still just a clump of [00:20:38] cells, right? At the end of the day, [00:20:40] >> but hold on. My baby right now is 9 [00:20:41] months old. He's still developing. He [00:20:43] can't speak yet. He's crawling. So, why [00:20:46] does he have less moral worth at 9 [00:20:47] months? He's I mean, we're all still [00:20:48] developing here, by the way. You know [00:20:50] that men's brains don't stop developing [00:20:52] till they're 35, [00:20:53] >> right? I just believe you're looking at [00:20:55] this more emotionally than [00:20:56] scientifically. [00:20:59] >> I that again, you can believe that. I [00:21:01] actually am looking at it incredibly [00:21:03] reasonably because I could tell you to [00:21:05] down to the minute when human life [00:21:06] begins. You kind of give me a range. [00:21:09] Your life began not at birth but at [00:21:12] conception about nine months before your [00:21:14] birth. Your [00:21:14] >> opinion. [00:21:15] >> Well, it's actually science's opinion. [00:21:17] You know why? This is your eye color, [00:21:19] your your skin color, your tastes, your [00:21:21] wants, your desires, your interests, [00:21:22] introvert or extroverted, whether or not [00:21:24] you're going to be tall or short. It all [00:21:26] got decided in that moment. You know [00:21:27] why? Your DNA was formed. [00:21:29] >> Amen. [00:21:29] >> And and with that you what is your [00:21:31] marker as a human being. As we map the [00:21:34] human genome, we realize everything [00:21:35] about you. Whether or not you have a [00:21:37] predisposition to heart disease, you [00:21:39] know, whether you're going to be tall, [00:21:40] short, you know, extra wide, skinny, [00:21:43] it's all in deoxyorbiboucleic acid. [00:21:46] Correct. And the DNA does not stop start [00:21:48] in 6 weeks or 8 weeks or 10 weeks or 20 [00:21:50] weeks. It starts at conception and [00:21:52] that's when you were formed. That's when [00:21:54] you came into this world and you were [00:21:56] worthy of protection. Thank you very [00:21:57] much for your time. Thank you. [00:21:59] >> I think when we talk about abortion, I [00:22:00] think we really get into this um idea of [00:22:03] like when we should assign personhood, [00:22:05] right? So um uh you clearly believe that [00:22:08] life begins at conception and I think it [00:22:10] would be better if we shift if we shift [00:22:12] that metric to a more based on [00:22:14] sentience. And I believe that like um [00:22:17] and the question I have for you is that [00:22:18] like since you believe that life begins [00:22:20] at at birth, let's say we have a person [00:22:22] that's grown to old age and they have [00:22:23] died and they have um they have [00:22:25] absolutely showing no brain activity at [00:22:27] all. Um would you believe that like you [00:22:29] know shooting that person uh that dead [00:22:32] person is the equivalent of like a human [00:22:33] life? [00:22:34] >> Yeah. I mean it is a human life but [00:22:36] those are two totally separate things. [00:22:37] One one is no more and the other one's [00:22:39] not yet. [00:22:40] >> Right. [00:22:40] >> So so not yet is different than no more. [00:22:42] If someone's at the end of their life [00:22:43] and there's nothing more we can do to [00:22:44] continue their life, that is a different [00:22:46] moral conversation than someone that has [00:22:47] not yet been completely grown as a [00:22:49] human, as humanity. Two totally [00:22:50] different moral circumstances. So, you [00:22:52] can't conflate the two, [00:22:53] >> right? Um, but I think they both have [00:22:55] the same problem where like uh that uh [00:22:58] it's it's about the presence of [00:22:59] consciousness, right? Then [00:23:00] >> no, it's not a problem. One [00:23:01] consciousness will come, one will the [00:23:03] one will not. [00:23:04] >> That's so they're two separate things. [00:23:05] One has potentiality, one does not. So, [00:23:08] you can't conflate the two. [00:23:09] >> Okay. Let's say like let me use a [00:23:11] different analogy then. Let's say um I [00:23:12] have a blueprint to a building, right? [00:23:14] And uh I have the materials for the [00:23:15] building and you destroy those [00:23:17] materials. Um that the materials of of [00:23:19] the building isn't the building in [00:23:20] itself. Can we both agree that there's a [00:23:22] difference between those two? [00:23:23] >> Is the building building itself in real [00:23:24] time and is currently being constructed [00:23:26] and it's going up? [00:23:27] >> No, but it still doesn't matter because [00:23:29] they're still adding value to the fact [00:23:30] that we're creating the [00:23:31] >> bad analogy. A blueprint [00:23:34] >> because the blueprint not itself is not [00:23:35] the building. [00:23:36] >> Right. Exactly. [00:23:37] in order to like a human being's DNA is [00:23:39] not agree on that though that the [00:23:41] blueprint is not the building. So [00:23:42] there's probably different moral [00:23:43] qualifications. [00:23:43] >> No, they're not. I'm saying though that [00:23:45] the baby is the building. So you're [00:23:46] incorrect. [00:23:47] >> Okay. So [00:23:47] >> the baby the building is following the [00:23:49] blueprint. [00:23:49] >> So when you're looking at like like I [00:23:51] don't know like a fertilized egg, you're [00:23:52] telling me this a picture of this [00:23:53] fertilized egg is the equivalent of a [00:23:54] human life right now. No exact same. [00:23:56] What's the difference? [00:23:57] >> They're different stage of development. [00:23:58] >> No. So why should stage of development [00:24:01] give you more rights? [00:24:02] >> Well, I mean we we Okay, you're acting [00:24:04] like this is not something this is done [00:24:05] in society. Like for example, we do [00:24:07] judge based on different stages of [00:24:09] development like in cognitive [00:24:10] capabilities, right? I'm not letting a [00:24:11] fetus drive a car. A fetus can't drive [00:24:13] to life. [00:24:15] >> Apply the right to life to your stage of [00:24:16] devel. So my I guess my I guess a [00:24:19] different question I would have to ask [00:24:20] you is like why um do so why is your so [00:24:23] I'm I'm assuming your two qualifications [00:24:25] here are the fact that like it can [00:24:26] create it's a unique cellular organism, [00:24:29] right? That has the potential to [00:24:30] >> it's human which is inherently has [00:24:32] dignity. [00:24:33] >> So so okay. So I guess then this this [00:24:35] brings up a question cuz I know there's [00:24:37] another scenario where this occurs, [00:24:38] right? Where fertilization of an egg [00:24:39] occurs and they're they have they're on [00:24:41] on track to development. Correct. And [00:24:44] this other example that I'll think of is [00:24:45] like animals, right? I think um do we [00:24:47] give why do we not give the same moral [00:24:49] consideration to animals as we are to [00:24:50] like like zygot in this? [00:24:52] >> Animals aren't human beings. [00:24:53] >> Okay. So but why is human beings [00:24:55] >> human beings have a soul and animals do [00:24:56] not [00:24:56] >> have a soul? So so levels so exact. So [00:24:59] this is my point guys is a conscious [00:25:01] experience. You are you are prove it to [00:25:03] this dishonest. This is honest though. [00:25:05] >> Let me prove it to you. When someone is [00:25:06] quote unquote brain dead, do you know [00:25:07] that they still respond if someone stabs [00:25:10] them? Their norepinephrine goes up. Do [00:25:11] you know that a woman still mere [00:25:13] menrates if she's brain dead? So [00:25:14] consciousness is not human worth. [00:25:16] There's something else going on beyond [00:25:17] consciousness that exists in a being [00:25:19] that is the soul. [00:25:20] >> Okay. So now we're getting into a [00:25:20] conversation of what the difference [00:25:21] between a soul and a consciousness is. [00:25:22] And [00:25:23] >> no, they're totally different. The soul [00:25:24] is the something beyond consciousness is [00:25:26] your narration to yourself, your ability [00:25:28] to reason. There's something above [00:25:30] reason. All of us know what that is when [00:25:31] it kicks in. You ever hear the [00:25:32] expression words can't describe? I am [00:25:35] speechless. You know why? Speech is [00:25:36] reason. When you see a sunset that takes [00:25:38] your breath away. When you see a newborn [00:25:40] life that is born, you don't even have [00:25:41] the words to express it cuz it [00:25:42] transcends your idea. That is your soul. [00:25:44] >> So So I mean that's a good point. Like [00:25:46] when when we give so you what you just [00:25:48] labeled there is like when a child is [00:25:49] given born when when they're born, we [00:25:51] give such moral significance to that. [00:25:53] Not the fact that like they got [00:25:54] infertilized by an egg. I don't want to [00:25:55] celebrate. I want to sort of like I'd [00:25:57] rather celebrate my birthday rather than [00:25:58] like, you know, the day my parents had [00:26:00] sex. That's kind of a little weird [00:26:01] situation. You know what I mean? Like if [00:26:03] life begins at concept conception. [00:26:04] >> Well, it's called your birthday for a [00:26:06] reason. But you were you were a living [00:26:07] being, not [00:26:08] >> It seems that like society 9 months [00:26:10] prior [00:26:10] >> gravitates to this idea of like an [00:26:12] actual human being existing that gives [00:26:15] value, right? [00:26:15] >> One is your entrance to the world. The [00:26:17] other one is the actual creation of your [00:26:18] being. Two different things. Your [00:26:20] birthday is when you entered the world. [00:26:21] For example, your birthday could be at [00:26:23] 28 weeks, not 36 weeks. So, everybody [00:26:25] has a different day when you exit the [00:26:27] womb, but it's not when your worth [00:26:28] begins. That's not when your value [00:26:30] begins. That's simply when you exit the [00:26:32] womb. [00:26:32] >> Right. Right. So, uh I I have a good [00:26:34] question. I really want to get back to [00:26:35] this uh idea of like you give more moral [00:26:37] value to the level of the fact that like [00:26:39] that humans that are developed have a [00:26:40] soul in comparison to like you know a [00:26:42] zygote that or actually no animal. [00:26:45] >> Okay. So is that not the same comparison [00:26:48] to like a zygote to a developed human [00:26:50] being in in the sense that like like um [00:26:53] we are a higher fire higher functioning [00:26:56] cog conscious being in comparison to [00:26:58] like this other thing that we can just [00:26:59] actively kill one [00:27:00] >> doesn't matter I mean can you actively [00:27:02] kill a one-year-old doesn't have as much [00:27:04] acuity as you do or consciousness [00:27:06] >> right yeah but like I mean can you kill [00:27:07] a one-year-old that's the same thing [00:27:09] because like this is going back to my [00:27:10] like [00:27:11] >> what's the difference between a [00:27:11] one-year-old and a and a one day old [00:27:13] zygote what's the moral difference [00:27:14] >> uh the level of consciousness Oh, so [00:27:16] one's bigger, one's more developed, [00:27:17] one's older. The consciousness is [00:27:20] completely irrelevant cuz just you know [00:27:22] that a one day old out of the womb [00:27:23] doesn't have a lot of consciousness at [00:27:24] all. It can't speak. It can't really [00:27:26] It's kind of like disimbabulated. But [00:27:28] you don't get less rights for that. [00:27:31] >> I I I agree. I mean like well to a [00:27:33] certain degree I agree with that. But [00:27:34] like there but there is a meaningful [00:27:36] difference between a fertilized egg and [00:27:38] a conscious human being. One is one is [00:27:40] less conscious than the other. [00:27:41] >> Oh no. One has more skills. But like [00:27:43] what's the what's the innate moral [00:27:44] difference? And prove it to me. [00:27:46] >> Um because we it seems like we do give [00:27:48] restrict rights and we do actually [00:27:50] change rights based on development and [00:27:51] consciousness. [00:27:52] >> So like a four-year-old, what is the [00:27:54] innate moral difference of a [00:27:55] four-year-old and a zygote? [00:27:57] >> One is more conscious. [00:27:58] >> Okay, got it. So I think that's [00:28:00] irrelevant. I think they're both human [00:28:01] beings deserving of protection. [00:28:02] Consciousness alone is not a marker of [00:28:03] dignity. [00:28:04] >> Okay. So then what is your marker of [00:28:06] dignity? It's being a human being. [00:28:07] >> Being a human being. So your is your [00:28:09] argu argument a little bit circular [00:28:10] though there is just like it's just [00:28:11] because we are we deserve rights because [00:28:13] we're human being. [00:28:14] >> Yeah of course I mean it's self-evident [00:28:15] we are human beings with a soul [00:28:16] therefore we have rights. [00:28:17] >> So so it's we're we deserve rights [00:28:19] because we're human beings because we're [00:28:20] human beings. So like how am I supposed [00:28:21] to win against this argument here? [00:28:22] >> You can't see. [00:28:24] >> Okay. Yeah. Exactly. So it's it's called [00:28:27] it's called a self-evident truth. [00:28:28] >> So so [00:28:29] >> it's called self-evidence. So there it [00:28:31] is that's why the pro-life position is [00:28:32] irrefutable is that because you have to [00:28:34] posit human beings have rights. And [00:28:36] that's that isn't that a kind of a [00:28:37] concern that like we we base all our [00:28:39] entire ideology on this one illogical [00:28:41] circle that [00:28:42] >> it's not illogical. It's incredibly [00:28:43] logical. We are human beings and we [00:28:45] believe that they matter. [00:28:46] >> If you were remove this this circle [00:28:48] here, then you would have to actually be [00:28:49] pro-life in the sense be proife to all [00:28:51] life. [00:28:51] >> Oh, we are [00:28:52] >> right. So, animals, you know, but we [00:28:54] don't believe human beings are [00:28:56] >> I'm not like a vegan or anything. I'm a [00:28:57] veget. [00:28:57] >> Human beings are not the moral same as a [00:28:59] as a bird. It's not the same thing for [00:29:02] multiple reasons because a human being [00:29:03] has characteristics and qualities and [00:29:05] most importantly we believe as [00:29:07] Christians human beings have a soul that [00:29:08] a bird does not have. [00:29:10] >> Okay. So characteristics and qualities [00:29:11] >> only let me interrupt one more. The west [00:29:13] whether you agree or not sorry to [00:29:14] interrupt. We believe the human being is [00:29:16] the only thing made in the image of the [00:29:17] creator. A mo day. [00:29:19] >> Okay. Okay. So when you say [00:29:20] characteristics and qualities what does [00:29:22] that mean to me? What does that mean to [00:29:23] me? Well, first of all, not just the [00:29:25] ability to reason, but also the ability [00:29:26] to sympathize, empathize, feel, predict, [00:29:29] plan, conjecture, have mercy, [00:29:31] forgiveness, to be able to be [00:29:33] introspective. [00:29:33] >> I love that. I love that about us human [00:29:35] beings. [00:29:35] >> Oh, no. I know I'm not being sarcastic. [00:29:37] >> No, but we human beings are exceptional [00:29:38] actually. I mean, versus the the beasts [00:29:40] of the wild, which we should appreciate [00:29:42] and adore. But again more beyond that we [00:29:44] come after this from a soft religious [00:29:46] view because you don't have to be [00:29:46] Christian to believe this that the human [00:29:48] being has innate inherent [00:29:51] >> um embedded let's just say dignity that [00:29:54] a fox does not. [00:29:56] >> Right. Yeah. So what you just did there [00:29:58] is kind of like my argument here. You're [00:30:00] you're you're saying that like because [00:30:02] we are human we are more developed. We [00:30:04] are we have higher cognitive reasoning. [00:30:06] We're able to emo sympathize emotion and [00:30:09] reason do all these great things. Right. [00:30:10] But the thing is, well, I guess that's [00:30:12] that's that's a religious belief, [00:30:14] though. [00:30:14] >> Well, that's an interesting question. [00:30:16] >> I think that consciousness is the soul. [00:30:18] >> And that's that's where we that's where [00:30:20] why if you don't believe in God, it's [00:30:22] easy to go want to murder a bunch of [00:30:23] people. And I'm not criticizing you. It [00:30:25] goes back to just a common theme here. [00:30:27] If you believe in God, every human being [00:30:29] has dignity. [00:30:30] Well, you you're kind of intuition [00:30:32] pumping there about saying if it's [00:30:33] murder because we haven't really discuss [00:30:35] we haven't even agreed on [00:30:37] course being a human being and an [00:30:39] elimination human life is murder. But [00:30:40] that's fine. We're not we're just this [00:30:42] is why it's very hard to change people [00:30:44] that don't believe in God to be pro-life [00:30:46] because you don't you don't necessarily [00:30:48] believe that human life is necessarily [00:30:51] special. [00:30:52] >> No, I I I mean I do. [00:30:53] >> But you might think it's like unique and [00:30:54] like interesting, but but you don't [00:30:56] believe it's made in the image of a [00:30:58] creator. [00:30:59] >> Okay. Yeah. [00:30:59] >> And that's fine. And that that's why we [00:31:01] tend to be the pro-life champions and [00:31:03] those that don't believe in God don't. [00:31:04] And that's okay. It's just that that [00:31:06] that clarity is important for the [00:31:08] audience. [00:31:08] >> Okay. So, I I guess we're we can keep [00:31:09] going back and forth. I'm sure you got a [00:31:11] whole lot on people. But I I I do I do [00:31:13] want to have a good question with you. [00:31:15] Uh a question about um that I want to [00:31:17] leave off on is so it seems like it's [00:31:19] it's I I I think you're pretty set in [00:31:21] stone in this in this position. And I [00:31:22] would I would like to ask, what would I [00:31:24] have to do or prove to show you in order [00:31:26] to convince you that pro-life isn't the [00:31:28] answer that society should be seeking [00:31:30] for? [00:31:30] >> I mean, it would be an impossibility. [00:31:31] You have to prove to me God doesn't [00:31:32] exist. [00:31:33] >> Okay. So, so then we can agree that like [00:31:35] this is just a a moral issue that you're [00:31:37] appealing to a book. [00:31:38] >> Of course. I mean, all moral issues [00:31:39] appeal to an authority. Obviously, why [00:31:41] is murder wrong? [00:31:42] >> I mean, cuz it Well, the reason if you [00:31:44] want to talk about morality, we can talk [00:31:45] about morality. [00:31:46] >> Abortion is a moral issue. Of course, it [00:31:48] is. Yeah. But the reason why our whole [00:31:49] conversation is laced with more [00:31:50] morality. [00:31:51] >> But in order to kind of like reduct it [00:31:53] to like a textbook or a book or a [00:31:55] specific like where do you get your [00:31:57] morality from? [00:31:57] >> Well, I think morality should be based [00:31:59] on like what is the best choice of [00:32:00] action to help society progress that [00:32:02] makes any sense? [00:32:02] >> Okay, got it. What what if society [00:32:04] agrees we should kill the dumb people? [00:32:06] >> Well, um probably not the best. [00:32:09] >> What about you? But why? [00:32:10] >> The thing is the thing is the thing is [00:32:13] that doesn't work. Because in Iceland [00:32:15] it's it's it's mandatory to abort down [00:32:17] syndrome babies. [00:32:19] >> Okay. [00:32:20] >> But it's best, right? Down syndrome [00:32:21] people are a stranded society. Why do [00:32:23] you say it's wrong? [00:32:24] >> A because there's some degree of like [00:32:25] like uh we should protect some people. [00:32:27] >> Why? By what standard? Why are you [00:32:29] appealing to I appeal to a book? What do [00:32:31] you appeal to? [00:32:31] >> The thing is I I I think like there's [00:32:32] still some value to what standard that [00:32:35] is. Is that your opinion or is there [00:32:36] something transcended telling you that? [00:32:37] >> No, there's something transcended [00:32:38] because like there is some sacredity to [00:32:39] life and that's what I agree with. I I [00:32:41] agree that life is sacred. that that [00:32:42] that that's why I would agree that if [00:32:44] you if you adopted a more broader pro [00:32:46] pro-life stance, I think I would be more [00:32:48] on side of that. Like if you want to [00:32:49] have a society where we're forcing women [00:32:50] to breed and pump out children, then I I [00:32:53] would say you would have to create that [00:32:54] society where like it is um uh more able [00:32:56] for them to do that. And in addition to [00:32:58] not not be indiscriminate between life. [00:33:00] So I think [00:33:02] >> I I would agree with that sentiment. [00:33:03] Right. Thank you for your time. [00:33:04] >> It's all right if you have an opinion. [00:33:06] I'm saying it's not all right if you [00:33:08] don't understand how the female [00:33:09] reproductive system. [00:33:10] >> Okay. So pop quiz. When does heartbeats [00:33:12] begin for babies in uterero? [00:33:14] >> Have you ever eaten an egg before? [00:33:16] >> Um, [00:33:19] that's yes or no. Have you ever eaten an [00:33:21] egg before? [00:33:23] >> Uh, scrambled. Yeah. [00:33:24] >> Okay. So, would that be you scrambled a [00:33:27] full chicken? [00:33:29] >> Well, hold on. Oh, you understand it [00:33:30] takes an egg to be fertilized, [00:33:32] >> right? Uh-huh. [00:33:33] >> Yeah. Uhhuh. [00:33:35] >> Your point, the whole point you're [00:33:36] making. [00:33:37] >> Hold on. So, but no, since we're doing [00:33:39] pop quiz on like human development. So, [00:33:42] when exactly do heart waves begin in [00:33:44] uterero, [00:33:45] >> you know that, but you don't know the [00:33:46] four. [00:33:47] >> Hold on. No, tell me when. Tell me when [00:33:49] I don't know. [00:33:49] >> Okay. You don't know? No. So, wait, hold [00:33:51] on. So, you're trying to say I know more [00:33:53] about the woman reproductive system than [00:33:55] you do. [00:33:55] >> I am a woman, so yes. [00:33:57] >> Yes. Okay. Well, but the point being is [00:33:59] we could both go back and forth of like [00:34:01] independent trivial facts when it comes [00:34:04] to the woman's reproductive system. But [00:34:05] here's something we all know because God [00:34:08] wrote this on the human heart of every [00:34:09] individual. As it says in the book of [00:34:11] Romans, we know deep down it's wrong to [00:34:14] murder a baby. [00:34:15] >> You're not murdering a baby. It's not a [00:34:17] baby. [00:34:17] >> Okay. Well, let's let's play this out. [00:34:19] What is it then? [00:34:20] >> It is an embryo, which is not a baby. [00:34:22] >> Well Well, okay. So, it's a fertilized [00:34:24] embryo, [00:34:25] >> correct? Which is not a baby. So, at [00:34:27] what point does it become a baby? [00:34:28] >> When it is born. [00:34:30] >> Oh, [00:34:33] >> I don't agree with abortions up to full [00:34:35] term abortions. [00:34:36] >> Hold on. But, but you said it becomes a [00:34:38] baby when it's born. Then why would you [00:34:39] have abortion limits before it's born? I [00:34:42] thought it's just an embryo. So, embryo [00:34:43] rights. [00:34:44] >> No, embryo rights aren't a thing. [00:34:45] >> But then where would you draw a line for [00:34:47] abortion then? And why? And under what [00:34:49] moral standard? [00:34:50] >> There are medical reasons, not the [00:34:52] question. That's not the question. You [00:34:53] just asked me why would I not have an [00:34:55] abortion full term for medical reasons. [00:34:57] >> Okay. So, at 29 weeks, the baby is [00:34:59] nearly fully developed, can recognize [00:35:01] the mother's voice, has a heartbeat, has [00:35:03] brain waves. Is it okay to abort that [00:35:06] baby? [00:35:07] >> I don't like it's not okay. But you're [00:35:09] going to say it's okay to have an [00:35:11] abortion then? [00:35:13] >> Like, I don't understand what you're [00:35:14] trying to say. It's not okay to have an [00:35:15] abortion ever. How about like 3 weeks [00:35:17] in? [00:35:18] >> Correct. No abortion. Correct. [00:35:19] >> Why? [00:35:20] >> Well, because your life started at [00:35:22] conception. It did not though. It did [00:35:24] not. [00:35:24] >> Well, hold on. So, let's play this out. [00:35:26] So, who are you as an individual? From [00:35:28] your skin color to your eye color to [00:35:30] your likes, your dislikes, from your [00:35:33] temperament to your everything. [00:35:35] >> I am not an embryo. I'm a person. [00:35:37] >> Hold on a second. But it started with [00:35:39] something called deoxoribbo [00:35:42] nucleic acid. And your own individual [00:35:45] DNA started at the point of egg and [00:35:48] sperm meeting. That's where your journey [00:35:51] started. And so from that point in [00:35:53] particular, life begins. Not not at [00:35:56] birth, not at first words, not at first [00:35:59] steps, but when your DNA, which is who [00:36:01] you actually are. Your you are your DNA. [00:36:04] Every one of your DNA cells is coded XX [00:36:07] or XY. It's coded with all of your [00:36:09] unique characteristics and attributes [00:36:11] that God we believe God individually [00:36:13] curated for the rest of your life. That [00:36:15] doesn't happen at 8 weeks or 10 weeks. [00:36:17] It happens at conception. [00:36:18] >> What happens if you need a medical [00:36:20] abortion? If the mother will die if she [00:36:22] does not get an abortion, what's your [00:36:23] stance on? [00:36:24] >> The only the only place where medical [00:36:26] abortion is necessary is before 20 [00:36:28] weeks, which is incredibly [00:36:29] >> if she will die, what if the mother so [00:36:31] let's take they for example like this is [00:36:33] a very important question. Let's say [00:36:35] it's 27 weeks, okay? And the mother will [00:36:38] die. Why shouldn't you could agree why [00:36:40] don't we just have the baby delivered by [00:36:42] cesareian section? You know what a [00:36:43] cacaian section is, right? [00:36:44] >> Yes. [00:36:45] >> What is a cescareian section? [00:36:46] >> A C-section. [00:36:46] >> Yeah. Why wouldn't we just put the baby [00:36:48] up by C-section instead of terminating [00:36:50] it [00:36:50] >> because if the mother will die, it's not [00:36:52] safe to do that. [00:36:53] >> You remove the baby. [00:36:54] >> I understand. [00:36:55] >> I know what a C-section is, [00:36:56] >> but it's actually safer than an [00:36:58] abortion. So, every time they say, "This [00:37:00] is for you guys." They say, "Oh, you [00:37:02] need to have abortion for medical [00:37:04] reasons." Respond, "Then have a [00:37:05] C-section." [00:37:06] >> What if you're not able to have a [00:37:07] C-section? What if you are on your [00:37:09] deathbed? You need to have an abortion [00:37:10] right now. [00:37:11] >> Again, [00:37:12] >> and it's illegal. You can't. So, you [00:37:13] have to die. [00:37:14] >> First, first and foremost, C-section is [00:37:16] safer. C-section is quicker and a [00:37:18] C-section saves both lives. A C-section, [00:37:20] >> the baby is already dead. You just said, [00:37:22] >> "No, but even No, no, no. Hold on a [00:37:24] second. You're saying if the baby's [00:37:25] already dead, then it doesn't have an [00:37:26] abortion, right? Then you're talking [00:37:27] about a removal of a carcass, which is a [00:37:29] completely different medical operation." [00:37:32] So, [00:37:32] >> you're saying that's okay. If you're [00:37:33] having [00:37:34] >> if you're rem Hold on. If you're [00:37:35] removing a carcass of a baby, that is [00:37:37] not an abortion by definition. [00:37:39] >> The same process. [00:37:40] >> No, it it it's completely different. [00:37:42] During an abortion, they actually inject [00:37:44] the spinal fluid with cyanide poisoning [00:37:48] as the baby squirms and tries to find [00:37:51] its mother and it is gasping for air of [00:37:53] life. Have you ever watched an abortion? [00:37:55] It is one of the Yeah, actually I have [00:37:57] and I encourage every human being to [00:37:59] watch one to know what you are fighting [00:38:00] against because when you see abortion [00:38:03] you will have your your life will be [00:38:05] changed that we allow the massacre of a [00:38:08] million and a half babies a year under [00:38:10] the guise of woman reproductive health. [00:38:12] We are allowing babies every single year [00:38:15] to just say, you know, we're going to [00:38:16] discard them. Why? Oh, they're smaller. [00:38:18] They're not humans. You're using [00:38:19] dehumanizing language saying, "Oh, it's [00:38:21] an embryo." No, that's a baby made in [00:38:24] the image of God deserving of [00:38:26] protection. [00:38:28] >> What do you do with those children once [00:38:30] they're born into a bad household? [00:38:32] >> So, now we've transition to like what do [00:38:34] you do with the kids? Glad we're past [00:38:36] the other part of the argument. Okay. [00:38:38] What do you do with them? You know, [00:38:39] there's twice as many people on the [00:38:40] adoption waiting list than there are [00:38:42] abortions every single year that [00:38:44] >> And they're still on the list. So, you [00:38:45] want to send a child into an orphanage? [00:38:48] >> Is that what you want for a child? Is [00:38:49] that a good life for a child? No, I'm [00:38:51] not advocating that. In fact, I'm [00:38:53] advocating for to make it easier to be [00:38:55] able to adopt. Number one. Number two, [00:38:57] there's no such thing as an unwanted [00:38:59] child. Number three, it is never right [00:39:02] to justify the mass elimination or [00:39:04] termination of people under the guise of [00:39:06] saying they're unwanted. That's how we [00:39:08] get Oshvitz. That's how we get the [00:39:11] greatest horrors of the 20th century. [00:39:13] Those people are unwanted. [00:39:15] >> So, you're comparing abortion to the [00:39:16] Holocaust. [00:39:17] >> Absolutely, I am. In fact, it's worse. [00:39:19] It's worse. [00:39:21] >> It's really not. I don't think [00:39:22] >> it's 45 million babies. [00:39:25] It's nearly eight times worse than the [00:39:27] Holocaust. What's the moral difference [00:39:30] between a small baby in the womb and a [00:39:32] grown Jew who was killed at Oshvitz? [00:39:34] What's the moral difference? [00:39:36] >> One is older [00:39:37] >> is a person. [00:39:39] >> What species is the baby in the womb? [00:39:41] >> It's a human. But [00:39:43] >> therefore, they should have human [00:39:44] rights. [00:39:45] >> No, [00:39:46] >> they should have human rights. [00:39:47] >> I do not agree. Oh, so so small humans [00:39:50] no human rights. Grown humans human [00:39:52] rights. [00:39:52] >> It's not a small human. It's an embryo. [00:39:55] >> You just said it was a human species. [00:39:57] >> It's not a living human child. [00:39:59] >> Wait, it's not a what? [00:40:00] >> It's not a child. It's not a living [00:40:02] child. [00:40:02] >> It's very It has a heartbeat. It has [00:40:04] brain waves. [00:40:05] >> Make it a child. [00:40:06] >> But tell me when it becomes a child [00:40:09] then. [00:40:09] >> When it I already told you when it is [00:40:11] born [00:40:12] >> again. So under every other objective [00:40:14] definition, you see guys how quickly the [00:40:16] proabortion arguments fall apart with [00:40:17] just the slightest questioning and but [00:40:21] it our position is one rooted not in [00:40:23] feelings, not in personal autonomy, but [00:40:26] one in biological consistency and [00:40:29] reality that your life had an agreed [00:40:31] upon starting point. That that starting [00:40:33] point should be protected and preserved. [00:40:35] And the excuses given for abortion is [00:40:37] dehumanization. Oh, it's just an embryo. [00:40:39] Guys, that's just using different [00:40:41] language to justify the massacre of [00:40:43] something smaller than you. That's all [00:40:45] that it is. [00:40:46] >> I would like to ask you about um for [00:40:49] abortions, right? How do we explain to [00:40:53] those who are are for it? How do we [00:40:57] explain that? Um, even I don't know if [00:41:01] you believe this or not, but in terms of [00:41:03] like a or unintentional or really [00:41:07] unconented pregnancies, [00:41:10] do can we say that we should still be [00:41:13] anti-abortion in that scenario? [00:41:16] >> Yes. [00:41:18] >> Uh, what's your grounds for that? And [00:41:20] how would I explain it to someone else? [00:41:21] >> Sure, it's a good question. Uh, let's [00:41:23] say I have two ultrasounds here. [00:41:25] >> Mhm. One is an ultrasound of a baby from [00:41:27] a loving marriage. The other one is a [00:41:29] baby conceived in which one is which. [00:41:32] >> We can't exactly tell. [00:41:34] >> So they're both human beings, [00:41:36] >> right? [00:41:36] >> They both deserve human rights. [00:41:38] >> Okay. But then what is if someone pushes [00:41:40] back against with the idea? [00:41:43] >> Do I? [00:41:43] >> Closer. Yeah. [00:41:44] >> Oh. Uh what if someone pushes back with [00:41:47] the idea that now in terms of the [00:41:49] mother, right? One of them was willingly [00:41:52] conceived while the other one is was a [00:41:54] force cons. Yeah, I mean that that's a [00:41:56] fair argument. The question then should [00:41:58] be when if ever in your moral universe [00:42:01] is it okay to do something evil after an [00:42:04] evil act to try to make that evil act [00:42:07] correct? [00:42:08] >> But how about for in terms of what is if [00:42:10] we're in the position of the mother and [00:42:12] she is I don't want to take the risk of [00:42:15] illness, death or whatever to have this [00:42:17] child. [00:42:18] >> Sure. So, it's a little bit of a false [00:42:19] choice because they're acting as if the [00:42:21] termination of the pregnancy will have [00:42:23] no consequences or costs. A lot of women [00:42:26] that get abortions have regret. Women [00:42:27] die when they get abortions. They have a [00:42:29] lot of their health issues. It's not [00:42:30] just like getting a haircut. So, it's a [00:42:32] little bit of a false choice. But, we [00:42:34] come after it from a very basic moral [00:42:35] argument. There are two lives involved. [00:42:37] There's a little life and a grown life. [00:42:40] And no one has the right to eliminate a [00:42:42] human life in uterero. Period. [00:42:46] So Ben, at that point now we're forcing [00:42:49] someone to do something that they never [00:42:51] consented to, never wanted to do. [00:42:55] How isn't this violating their human [00:42:57] autonomy? [00:43:00] >> Well, again, but eliminating the human [00:43:02] being would also violate the baby's [00:43:04] autonomy, too, wouldn't it? [00:43:07] >> Well, then we would have to ask, right? [00:43:10] Maybe in future years we will have the [00:43:12] technology to be able to extract a fetus [00:43:15] and grow a fetus outside of the uterus, [00:43:18] but given our state of medicine right [00:43:21] now, we do not have that. [00:43:22] >> Sure. I mean, but again, no one is [00:43:24] delighting or rejoicing in these [00:43:26] circumstances. I mean, it's a terrible [00:43:27] situation. I want to reiterate that. But [00:43:30] you have a you have a unspeakably [00:43:32] difficult choice that is very morally, [00:43:35] you know, clear though, which is that [00:43:37] you don't eliminate a human being [00:43:38] because an awful action happened. [00:43:41] >> Are you saying that as someone who can [00:43:43] get Well, I guess my push back against [00:43:48] that would be then if we say that it's [00:43:52] entirely wrong, right? [00:43:55] We are I guess we're sacrificing [00:43:58] someone's choice for someone's life [00:44:00] which is admirable but [00:44:02] >> it's also morally correct. You you you [00:44:05] don't get you don't get to murder [00:44:06] someone smaller than you if it makes [00:44:07] your life difficult. [00:44:09] >> But then we can't exactly see the you [00:44:12] the fetus does not have autonomy. It [00:44:14] cannot exist outside the universe. [00:44:16] >> Doesn't matter. Human dignity does not [00:44:18] ex does not correlate with dependency. [00:44:21] So dignity and dependency are not two [00:44:22] things corrected. You have human dignity [00:44:24] because you're a human being, not [00:44:25] because how dependent you are. [00:44:27] >> So would you say that viability happens [00:44:30] when [00:44:30] >> viability is irrelevant? [00:44:32] >> So then at what point does human life [00:44:34] begin then? [00:44:35] >> Conception. [00:44:36] >> Conception. Not even sperm or eggs. [00:44:39] Okay. [00:44:39] >> That's conception. That's [00:44:40] >> I just wanted to get [00:44:41] >> when an egg is fertiliz when an egg is [00:44:42] fertilized, human life begins. [00:44:44] >> Okay. So then when it's still a single [00:44:46] cell with both chromosomes pairings, [00:44:49] right? [00:44:50] >> Well, it creates new DNA, right? So once [00:44:52] the sperm and egg meet literally [00:44:53] something magical and inexplicable [00:44:55] happens where new DNA is formed. [00:44:58] >> Okay. And then what happens? So then [00:45:00] >> then it attaches to the uterine wall and [00:45:02] I can go through the whole gestational [00:45:04] process but [00:45:05] >> all right. So then we have the basis of [00:45:08] human life. Now what is if within the [00:45:10] uterus now that life is still alive but [00:45:13] is unable to proceed to like let's say [00:45:17] actual birth due to some medical [00:45:19] situation that has happened. Well, has [00:45:21] has the baby died without outside [00:45:24] intervention or with outside [00:45:25] intervention? Let's say that the [00:45:26] >> is it an ectopic pregnancy or what what [00:45:28] you got to be very clear about the type [00:45:30] of [00:45:30] >> uh the amniotic sac has an ectopic [00:45:32] pregnancy, right? So, yeah, you can [00:45:34] remove the baby from that situation [00:45:35] without aborting it. The baby will die [00:45:37] outside of the womb, but you do not have [00:45:39] to abort it. So, those are two different [00:45:41] things. The removal of a baby is what's [00:45:43] called the cacaian section. You can do [00:45:44] that very early on. Now, ectopic [00:45:46] pregnancy is very real. It's very [00:45:47] terrible that you can you can solve an [00:45:49] ectopic pregnancy outside of having an [00:45:50] abortion. Everyone who's pro-choice, in [00:45:52] my opinion, has a moral obligation to [00:45:54] watch a video of an abortion just to [00:45:55] know kind of what you're supporting. [00:45:56] It's so beyond inexplicable. But yeah, [00:45:59] look, I really quick, what's the final [00:46:00] question on this cuz I want to keep keep [00:46:02] moving. [00:46:02] >> Oh, sure. So, um, you didn't really [00:46:05] finish the question of when can we do [00:46:08] that procedure, right? If there's still [00:46:10] a heartbeat, [00:46:11] >> I I don't I don't think we should ever [00:46:12] do that procedure. What happens if like [00:46:14] now the mother's life is going to die in [00:46:16] like the next minutes, but the baby is [00:46:18] still having a heartbeat? What do we do? [00:46:20] >> Depends on again I I don't want to speak [00:46:22] to every specific. Some OB/GYN say [00:46:24] abortion is never medically necessary. [00:46:26] I'm not a professional enough to say [00:46:27] that, but it depends how far advanced [00:46:29] the woman is. If she's past 22 weeks, [00:46:31] have a cesarian section. Try to have the [00:46:33] baby live in NICU. [00:46:35] >> So, there are situations where abortions [00:46:37] are okay, right? [00:46:38] >> Well, no, I'm not even saying okay. [00:46:39] Again, I don't know enough about some [00:46:41] OBGYNS that they can defend their [00:46:43] statement here. They will say abortion [00:46:45] is never medically necessary. I'll allow [00:46:46] them to defend that. I don't know enough [00:46:48] about the details there to be able to [00:46:50] say that. [00:46:50] >> So, you're saying that you do not have a [00:46:52] statement of whether abortions can never [00:46:53] be true or always. I [00:46:55] >> it is murder. Whether or not an OB/GYN [00:46:57] can prove to me, of which there's a lot [00:46:59] of debate, it is ever medically [00:47:01] necessary. So, take for example, if a [00:47:03] baby is 26 weeks [00:47:05] >> and the baby's, you know, some the mom's [00:47:07] life is in danger, deliver the baby by [00:47:10] C-section. Don't terminate the baby. [00:47:12] Does that make sense? [00:47:14] >> Yes. I hear [00:47:14] >> the baby can survive outside of the [00:47:15] womb. [00:47:17] >> Okay. At that point, yeah, [00:47:18] >> thank you very much. Appreciate it. [00:47:26] >> Hi. Okay. I'm just here to talk about [00:47:29] abortion. But the first my first [00:47:31] question was um why should women who are [00:47:35] have to give birth to that baby? [00:47:38] >> Yeah. Uh I think it's as simple as do [00:47:40] you believe life matters or not? [00:47:43] >> I mean is it because it has a heartbeat [00:47:46] when it is conceived? [00:47:47] >> Well um [00:47:49] >> it does not [00:47:50] >> exactly [00:47:51] >> it. Right. [00:47:53] >> So what what is the what is the question [00:47:55] you're asking? I'm saying that [00:47:56] >> my question to you is do you believe [00:47:58] that life matters? [00:48:00] >> I do believe life matters after the [00:48:02] person is born or the child [00:48:04] >> after the person's. So, okay. So, [00:48:06] >> here we go. [00:48:07] >> If um if Riley were to be pregnant or if [00:48:09] any woman were to be pregnant right now [00:48:11] and there's a baby that's 20 weeks [00:48:12] developed, is that baby alive? [00:48:15] >> No. [00:48:16] >> No. [00:48:17] >> I mean, not physically. Is it I mean, [00:48:20] it's [00:48:20] >> Wait, so it has a heartbeat? It can hear [00:48:22] the mom's voice. Has its own [00:48:24] fingerprint, its own DNA? It can empty [00:48:26] its own bladder. What about it is not [00:48:28] alive? [00:48:29] >> Um the fact if it doesn't have a [00:48:31] heartbeat [00:48:32] >> at 20 weeks, it does. So heartbeat start [00:48:35] at six weeks, right? So I'm talking [00:48:36] about a 20week baby, 20we old year old [00:48:38] baby. [00:48:39] >> How is that not alive? [00:48:41] >> Um I mean we I guess we see it different [00:48:44] ways, but I mean in my in how I see it, [00:48:46] you have to cut an umbilical cord to get [00:48:48] that child out. And I feel like if the [00:48:50] if that child is still attached to the [00:48:53] mother, if the mother is still the [00:48:54] mother has to eat to feed the baby, if [00:48:57] the mother if the child is still living [00:48:58] on the baby inside of the mother, it [00:49:00] should not like it isn't alive. [00:49:02] >> Well, a mother has to feed a baby months [00:49:04] and months and months and months after [00:49:06] the baby is already like on this planet. [00:49:10] >> But there the mother is feeding the [00:49:12] baby. This baby when is inside, are they [00:49:14] feeding? [00:49:15] >> So what about someone on a feeding tube? [00:49:16] If you don't feed them through their [00:49:18] feeding tube, are they not worthy of [00:49:20] life? How old's that person? Are they [00:49:22] are they born? [00:49:24] >> Like, have they been born yet? [00:49:25] >> But why why does the moral worth of a [00:49:27] human being matter whether they're born [00:49:28] or not? Um, probably well the point that [00:49:32] I was trying to get out with it [00:49:35] >> the the point that I was trying to get [00:49:36] out with it is that women shouldn't have [00:49:41] to be forced to give birth to that child [00:49:44] if they're if they don't want to. That's [00:49:47] the point I was just trying to get out [00:49:48] there. [00:49:49] >> Okay. Um, let's say I have two [00:49:50] ultrasounds here. [00:49:53] >> One of the babies [00:49:54] >> dolphin fetus again. One of them is a [00:49:56] baby conceived in [00:49:58] >> Okay. [00:49:58] >> The other one is a baby conceived in a [00:50:00] loving relationship. Which one is which? [00:50:02] >> I mean, it's up to them. The thing [00:50:04] >> No, but which one is which? I can't tell [00:50:05] the difference. Help me out. [00:50:07] >> I'm not saying that there's a difference [00:50:09] between those two. [00:50:09] >> Exactly. So, they both deserve human [00:50:11] rights. [00:50:11] >> No, I'm saying that if a mother doesn't [00:50:14] want to give birth to her child, she [00:50:16] shouldn't have to. [00:50:17] >> Okay. So, should you be able to commit [00:50:18] murder of a newborn if you don't want [00:50:20] the baby anymore? [00:50:22] >> No, you would. [00:50:22] >> Why? Well, then what's the difference? [00:50:23] You wouldn't have the child if you [00:50:24] didn't want it. That's the point of [00:50:26] abortion. [00:50:27] >> Well, hold on. [00:50:28] >> I will. [00:50:31] >> I hope you never have an abortion. [00:50:32] Actually, abortion's really bad. [00:50:33] >> It's my body, my choice. That's the [00:50:35] thing. [00:50:35] >> Well, hold on. It if if it's your body, [00:50:38] your choice. And I'll let Riley chime [00:50:39] in. [00:50:39] >> It's your choice cuz you're a man and [00:50:40] you get to make those decision. [00:50:41] >> Hold on. Time out. You want to say that [00:50:44] to Riley? Riley's a woman, too. So, say [00:50:46] the same statement to her. Say the same [00:50:47] statement to her. [00:50:48] >> But I'm [00:50:48] >> No. Your logic must be equally [00:50:50] applicable to all sexes. Say that same [00:50:51] statement to her. saying that she can [00:50:52] say the same statement to her. [00:50:53] >> I'm not saying that statement to you. [00:50:54] I'm saying that you as a man just said [00:50:56] it to me. No, I'm saying you as a man [00:50:57] should not have you should have the [00:50:58] right to choose whether I can. Does she [00:51:00] have the right to choose? [00:51:01] >> Yes, she does have the right. She [00:51:02] doesn't have no one has the right to [00:51:03] choose from. [00:51:03] >> Okay. So, it's not a man thing. That's [00:51:04] what I'm saying. [00:51:05] >> As a man because Trump is in charge and [00:51:06] he is the one he said that he is the [00:51:08] reason that Roie Wade is overturned. He [00:51:10] said that. [00:51:11] >> Praise the Lord. Row versus Wade is [00:51:12] overturned. [00:51:14] >> In what way? Like it's it also kills [00:51:16] other women in [00:51:17] >> you know we have more babies being born [00:51:18] in Texas than ever before since the [00:51:20] abolition of abortion. Isn't that a good [00:51:21] thing? [00:51:21] >> And that's that's why we have such a [00:51:23] high population. That's why we have 12 [00:51:24] million people in our [00:51:26] >> We have a declining population. We have [00:51:27] a population collapse. What are you [00:51:29] talking about? The world is on the the [00:51:30] world is on the verge of a like [00:51:32] population extinction event. [00:51:34] >> We don't have enough babies. We're below [00:51:35] replacement levels in the West. [00:51:36] >> So you want to make women have [00:51:38] >> not make Okay, let's go through [00:51:39] fundamental biology. How do people get [00:51:41] pregnant? [00:51:42] >> I I know how a woman gets pregnant. [00:51:44] >> So if you decide to have sex, you might [00:51:45] win a certain prize. [00:51:46] >> What if you don't decide? [00:51:47] >> I'm sorry. What [00:51:48] >> what if you do not decide to have sex [00:51:49] and you get [00:51:50] >> again it's still a human life and you [00:51:52] don't get to have you don't get to kill [00:51:53] a baby just because a human life o [00:51:55] occurs something evil [00:51:58] >> does not get better when another evil [00:51:59] action occurs and I will say this [00:52:01] somebody in this audience was conceived [00:52:03] in Can you tell me who [00:52:04] >> it doesn't matter who that's the thing [00:52:06] that's the thing is I'm saying I'm not [00:52:08] saying that they're not a human life I'm [00:52:09] saying the mother should have the choice [00:52:10] whether she [00:52:11] >> got it no but let's you said they're not [00:52:12] a human life so they are a human life [00:52:13] therefore an abolition an extermination [00:52:15] of human life is called what [00:52:17] >> murder murder. [00:52:18] >> So yes, abortion is murder. Even the [00:52:20] case of And that's a hard thing to [00:52:22] internalize. Doesn't matter. So [00:52:24] >> you're saying it's a child, but it's not [00:52:26] >> what species is it? [00:52:27] >> It is a human, but ah okay, [00:52:29] >> but is it a Has the child formed yet? [00:52:31] >> But but it but hold on. You're not fully [00:52:33] formed. Riley's not fully formed. I'm [00:52:35] not fully formed. We actually go through [00:52:37] this process of development our entire [00:52:38] life. An embryo is just one stage upon [00:52:41] human development. It doesn't mean you [00:52:42] get less rights just because you're [00:52:44] earlier in the human development scale. [00:52:46] Um, I mean, I feel like I do have more [00:52:50] rights than a baby that is in some [00:52:52] >> Why does your age give you more rights [00:52:54] over an embryo? [00:52:58] >> Why Why do the ability to eliminate a [00:53:00] smaller human? Why is that morally [00:53:02] consistent? [00:53:03] >> I'm not saying that it's better because [00:53:04] it is a smaller human. I'm saying that I [00:53:08] Oh my god. I'm saying that women [00:53:10] themselves should have the choice to get [00:53:13] married. [00:53:15] >> Yeah, that's why I should have the [00:53:17] choice. [00:53:18] >> Riley, do do you want to take this as a [00:53:20] woman? [00:53:20] >> Yeah. I mean, this is it's just a flawed [00:53:23] logic uh to insinuate that if you have a [00:53:26] heartbeat, uh these certain [00:53:27] qualifications, that is what determines [00:53:29] human rights. The moment you're [00:53:30] conceived, you are a human, right? We we [00:53:34] all disagreed that the species is a homo [00:53:36] sapien. you are a human at that point. [00:53:38] That's when human rights begin. So, I [00:53:40] think it's um ironic that the other side [00:53:43] who who touts human rights, who claims [00:53:45] to fight for human rights, um they don't [00:53:48] they don't believe those belong to to [00:53:50] children. And as a woman, um I believe [00:53:52] every single life is worthy. Every life [00:53:56] matters. [00:54:03] Um [00:54:04] >> well I mean there are so many women out [00:54:06] there who do get pregnant and because of [00:54:09] laws that there are in place they cannot [00:54:11] have an abortion and they have to give [00:54:13] birth to that baby. Many women that are [00:54:16] pregnant I'm not going to say I'm not [00:54:17] saying all of them. I'm saying some of [00:54:18] them are drug addicts. Some of them just [00:54:20] physically can't financially keep a [00:54:22] child. What is the solution? [00:54:23] >> Adoption. But the thing is that do do [00:54:25] you know how many kids are actually [00:54:27] adopted from adoption agency? [00:54:28] >> Do you know how many women struggle with [00:54:29] infertility who would love to adopt a [00:54:30] baby? [00:54:31] >> 25% of these kids get adopted before [00:54:33] they are 18. And the kids that do not [00:54:34] get adopted are let go from the adoption [00:54:36] agency and they do not like know what [00:54:39] they're doing. Not that they don't know [00:54:40] what they're doing. There certainly [00:54:41] could be reforms within the foster care [00:54:43] community and within the the adoption [00:54:46] system, but there are are plenty and [00:54:48] plenty and plenty of of families of [00:54:50] women uh who are are hoping to be able [00:54:53] to adopt because they can't conceive on [00:54:55] their own. [00:54:55] >> But 25% like only no only 25% there [00:54:58] should be a reform adoption. What are [00:55:01] you going to do? You want to say that we [00:55:02] cannot have an abortion, but many [00:55:04] children are not finding homes until [00:55:05] they're 18. And a lot of these kids once [00:55:07] they let go from adopting agencies [00:55:08] become homeless, become drug addicts. [00:55:10] You say that we cannot have abortion, [00:55:11] but you are not doing anything to make [00:55:12] >> but first of all, number one, [00:55:14] >> neither are you. [00:55:15] >> Exactly. So, [00:55:16] >> well, what am I supposed to do? I'm 16. [00:55:18] Like, [00:55:18] >> okay. So, again, so the the essence of [00:55:21] this again, and I'll we'll wrap this up. [00:55:24] There's twice as many people on the [00:55:26] adoption waiting list than there are [00:55:27] actually being adopted. Twice as many. [00:55:30] So the adoption waiting list is very [00:55:31] long. You just have to make it easier to [00:55:32] adopt [00:55:33] >> adoption reform. Well then that'd mean [00:55:34] that only 50% of these kids would be [00:55:36] adopted and there are still 50% of these [00:55:39] children which are [00:55:40] >> I think she missed her. [00:55:41] >> I think you missed the point. That's [00:55:42] okay. Thank you for your time. We'll get [00:55:43] to the next question. Thank you.