Sudan & Nigeria's Israel problem, Pan-Africanism & Resistance from Burkina Faso to Niger

[00:00:00] Even as the US empire's gaze turns [00:00:03] towards Venezuela, it continues to [00:00:05] meddle in Africa. Foreign intervention [00:00:08] is fueling a bitter civil war inside of [00:00:10] Sudan right now. And the Trump [00:00:12] administration is pushing a line about a [00:00:15] genocide against Christians in Nigeria. [00:00:17] With an eye on military intervention and [00:00:20] across the Sahel region, [00:00:22] anti-imperialist forces continue to rise [00:00:25] and organize, dreaming of a united [00:00:27] pan-African continent that will resist [00:00:30] US imperialism and reject Israeli [00:00:33] colonization. Here to talk to me more [00:00:36] about this is Ahmed Kabalo. He is a [00:00:39] British Sudanese journalist and the CEO [00:00:42] and co-founder of African Stream and of [00:00:45] course a friend of Mint Press News. Um, [00:00:48] African Stream, as many of you know, was [00:00:51] a media outlet shut down by the US [00:00:53] government for publishing inconvenient [00:00:56] truths. Welcome to the show, Ahmed. [00:00:59] >> Thank you, Mana. And I'm so glad that [00:01:01] you guys still on Instagram. You gave us [00:01:05] all a scare when they took you down, but [00:01:09] luckily they put you straight back up. [00:01:11] >> Yeah, the timing was very interesting [00:01:13] because I had just returned from Silicon [00:01:15] Valley when we got um taken down on [00:01:18] Instagram talking about, you know, [00:01:19] USIsraeli [00:01:21] um unit 8200 inside of Silicon Valley. [00:01:24] So, but we're back and we're here and we [00:01:28] will continue to talk about the forever [00:01:30] war machine. I think a lot of people's [00:01:32] eyes right now are on three different [00:01:34] places. One of them, of course, is [00:01:37] Venezuela with the United States [00:01:39] shutting down the airspace there. But [00:01:41] then what has really captured the hearts [00:01:43] and minds of the globe has been this [00:01:47] humanitarian crisis inside of Sud Sudan, [00:01:50] which is such a tragedy. But I think a [00:01:52] lot of people forget or might not even [00:01:54] know just how much of that is the result [00:01:59] of US imperialism for decades to turn [00:02:02] Sudan into the failed state it is today. [00:02:06] Um right now the Sudin government forces [00:02:09] have been battling the rebel faction uh [00:02:12] the rapid support forces or the RSF and [00:02:15] the RSF is now in control of much of the [00:02:18] southwest of the country. So we'd love [00:02:20] to get your expertise as somebody who uh [00:02:23] covers Africa. Uh you are Sudin Sudin as [00:02:27] well. So could you just tell us how did [00:02:30] we get to this humanitarian crisis that [00:02:33] we see today? [00:02:38] >> Well, it's a it's a long story. Um in [00:02:42] 2011, [00:02:44] Sudan was broken into two republics. The [00:02:46] Republic of Sudan and the Republic of [00:02:48] South Sudan. [00:02:49] Since then [00:02:51] we have had two civil wars in the south [00:02:56] and now a proxy war in the north. South [00:02:59] Sudan according according to the World [00:03:01] Bank last year was declared the world's [00:03:04] poorest country. [00:03:06] Sudan according to the UN is the world's [00:03:09] worst humanitarian crisis. [00:03:12] So by any measure, any way you look at [00:03:14] it, it's been a disaster for both [00:03:16] countries [00:03:18] and instrumental in the division of the [00:03:20] two Sedans [00:03:22] was the evangelical right from the [00:03:24] United States. Constantly they paid [00:03:28] played adverts of we need to stop the [00:03:31] massacre of Christians by the Arabs and [00:03:34] the Muslims in the north. [00:03:37] It it doesn't mean that wasn't true, but [00:03:39] it was an oversimplistic analysis of [00:03:41] what was going on, which was essentially [00:03:45] a fight for people's rights, for [00:03:48] people's autonomous rights, for people's [00:03:50] rights to live freely and in indignity [00:03:53] in their own land. It wasn't just about [00:03:55] religion. there was a lot more complex [00:03:57] economic political reasons for you know [00:04:01] the two bloody civil wars that had [00:04:03] happened in in Sudan since 1956 when the [00:04:06] country became independent. [00:04:10] So the US pushed pushed for this [00:04:13] separation. The Israelis supported the [00:04:17] rebel groups in both civil wars. So the [00:04:19] first civil war that that broke out soon [00:04:21] after independence and then the second [00:04:23] civil war were both rebel groups were [00:04:25] supported by the Israelis under the [00:04:27] guise of my enemies enemies my friend [00:04:30] and the Israelis would constantly use [00:04:32] Sudan as a distraction. So whenever [00:04:36] people talk about the real Israeli [00:04:38] apartheite that's there well it's [00:04:39] nothing compared to the Arab apartite [00:04:42] that the Christians of South Sudan are [00:04:44] facing in Sudan. Again, I'm not saying [00:04:47] this to to belittle the discrimination [00:04:49] that South and these people face because [00:04:50] it was real. Um, but it was definitely a [00:04:54] ploy used by the Israelis to not only [00:04:58] demonize Islam, demonize [00:05:02] um a country that historically always [00:05:04] stood with Palestine, but also to divert [00:05:07] attention. What what about um what's [00:05:10] going on in in Palestine isn't bad. [00:05:12] what's going on in Sudan is worse was [00:05:13] was a constant tactic used by Israeli [00:05:16] officials. [00:05:18] And so then when Sudan was divided, [00:05:21] the oil revenues 75% of the oil revenues [00:05:25] also went because they they exist in [00:05:28] South Sudan. The pipelines run through [00:05:30] the north, but still the the the oil [00:05:34] money that propped up the Bashier regime [00:05:37] was gone. And so the corrupt um Bashier [00:05:42] regime [00:05:44] really struggled to provide just the [00:05:46] basic necessities [00:05:48] um as well as keeping this military [00:05:51] apparatus that keeps him in power in [00:05:53] check. Um so there was you know [00:05:57] rebellions that were popping out in [00:05:59] different parts of the country. The [00:06:00] rebellion in Dar started in 2003 but the [00:06:03] rebellion in the Nuba Mountains uh [00:06:05] restarted. rebellion in in the blue now [00:06:08] started and it and and the north was [00:06:10] just engulfed in conflict and and [00:06:13] destabilization from that point. [00:06:17] Then came the December um revolution [00:06:19] that happened at the end of 2018, [00:06:21] beginning of 2019. [00:06:24] Um and you know Bashir was toppled by [00:06:28] his generals and the leader of the RSF [00:06:31] Atti and we had this strange situation [00:06:34] where there was a power sharing [00:06:36] agreement between a transitional [00:06:37] civilian government and the military. [00:06:40] Now during that time came the Abraham [00:06:43] Accords. [00:06:45] So it was it was a very interesting [00:06:48] thing to witness cuz I interviewed the [00:06:51] spokesman for the transitional civilian [00:06:53] government who was also the information [00:06:55] minister at the time and I asked him um [00:06:59] how come you decided to normalize [00:07:01] relations with Israel when you're not an [00:07:04] elected government but you're a [00:07:05] transitional government and he broke it [00:07:07] down and he said in the leadup to the [00:07:10] 2020 presidential elections in the US [00:07:14] normalization [00:07:15] wasn't linked to taking Sudan after the [00:07:18] state sponsor of terror. So the the [00:07:21] conditions were compensation for uh uh [00:07:25] 9/11 uh victims, [00:07:28] liberalization of some laws, you know, [00:07:30] the dress code, etc., etc. [00:07:33] um [00:07:34] it wasn't a an official condition but an [00:07:36] unofficial condition moving away from [00:07:39] the Islamic Republic of Iran which [00:07:40] happened in 2015 but normalization [00:07:44] wasn't explicitly part of it then as the [00:07:46] elections were coming up Mike Pompeo who [00:07:49] was the US secretary of state at the [00:07:50] time said no if you want the state [00:07:53] sponsor of terror designation lifted you [00:07:56] have to join the Abraham Accords and you [00:07:58] have to normalize relations with Israel [00:08:01] initially they refused used and said [00:08:04] this is a decision to be taken by an [00:08:05] elected government not by a transitional [00:08:08] one. But at the time Sudan's and this is [00:08:11] coming from Fel Muhammad Sal the [00:08:13] information minister not my words. He [00:08:15] says at the time Sudanese economy was [00:08:17] free falling and they were concerned [00:08:20] that if they were to wait for the [00:08:22] results of an of the election number one [00:08:25] Trump could come back in and and say no [00:08:27] you have to normalize relations. instead [00:08:29] of just wasted time. And number two, [00:08:31] Biden might continue the same policy. [00:08:33] Um, and and the the the Sudanese economy [00:08:37] was was free falling, which was just [00:08:39] weakening the transitional civilian [00:08:41] government and strengthening [00:08:43] the the armed forces in the country, [00:08:45] principally the military and the [00:08:48] militia, which was which was made [00:08:50] meaning that the process of transition [00:08:52] to civilian government was meaning was [00:08:54] becoming more unlikely. So they [00:08:57] reluctantly agreed to the Abraham [00:08:58] Accords. [00:09:00] Um which which all it did was amongst [00:09:03] the Sudanese masses it meant the [00:09:05] transitional civilian government had [00:09:07] just lost all credibility because not [00:09:11] only did they say they weren't going to [00:09:12] do this but now they did it. Um and they [00:09:17] kind of went back on everything that [00:09:19] they said in public that this is a [00:09:21] decision to be taken by an elected [00:09:22] government not a transitional [00:09:23] government. So Israel and US has played [00:09:25] a pivotal role in everything that we see [00:09:28] happening. We saw um a an agreement for [00:09:32] a Russian naval base by the Sudin [00:09:35] military. the Sudin ambassador that had [00:09:39] not been in the country for many years [00:09:40] due to the the West falling out with um [00:09:45] with Omar Rashier's regime um came back [00:09:48] to the country and said if you do this [00:09:51] it will be a huge huge mistake and [00:09:54] before we know it the country is [00:09:57] engulfed in war. [00:09:59] Um so and and and then countries [00:10:02] engulfed in war with both sides at the [00:10:05] start of the war having the backing of [00:10:08] key US allies. So at the start of the [00:10:11] war it was Egypt backing the Sudin army [00:10:14] key US ally the largest beneficiary of [00:10:17] of US military aid in Africa and the and [00:10:21] the United Arab Emirates. Now, as the [00:10:23] wars transpired, the Sudanese armies had [00:10:26] new partners, Algeria, Iran, Russia. But [00:10:29] at the beginning, that was it. [00:10:32] And they did nothing to stop the war. [00:10:34] And as the wars transpired and we've [00:10:37] seen the UAE loot gold from Sudan, the [00:10:40] UAE is now the second largest exporter [00:10:43] of gold in the world. But if you travel [00:10:46] up and down the United Arab Emirates, [00:10:47] you won't find a single gold mine. So, [00:10:50] you can only imagine how that happens. [00:10:53] Um, it funnels weapons to the rapid [00:10:56] support forces via Chad, via Uganda, and [00:10:59] allegedly by Ethiopia. [00:11:02] The US could make one phone call and [00:11:05] stop its ally, but it refuses to. And [00:11:08] what we've seen recently is that Donald [00:11:12] Trump says, "If you want peace, [00:11:15] um, then we're going to have to get [00:11:16] something for that peace." much similar [00:11:19] to what we saw with the fake peace deal [00:11:22] conducted between Rwanda and Congo where [00:11:25] it was we'll provide you security from [00:11:28] our principal ally in the region Rwanda [00:11:32] if you give up mining concessions and [00:11:35] concessions for critical minerals in the [00:11:38] Congo. So that it looks like that is the [00:11:42] move that Donald Trump is trying to [00:11:43] negotiate in Sudan. Um but obviously the [00:11:47] Sunnese people are not for it especially [00:11:50] because there's not been any peace in [00:11:52] Congo since the the the uh the peace [00:11:55] deal that was signed in June. M M23 [00:11:59] which is an a Rwanda backed militia [00:12:01] force still controls GMA and much as [00:12:03] eastern Congo. People are still being [00:12:05] sad. People are still being killed. [00:12:08] People are still displaced internally [00:12:10] and externally. So it's not even a real [00:12:13] piece. Um, so yeah, that's the situation [00:12:16] and it's a and it's a it's a sad [00:12:18] situation for anyone that's concerned [00:12:20] about what's going on in Sudan. [00:12:22] >> And I can imagine that the Sudanese [00:12:24] people of course would reject any [00:12:26] normalization with Israel and any sort [00:12:28] of like peace broker deal by the United [00:12:31] States like you mentioned because Sudan [00:12:34] such has such a strong tradition of [00:12:37] being a progressive country. Most people [00:12:39] don't even realize this. Sudan has been [00:12:41] one of the most progressive countries in [00:12:43] Africa and has been a very very strong [00:12:47] um backer of resistance against US [00:12:50] imperialism [00:12:52] and so and also in supporting you know [00:12:55] Palestine's right to resist you know [00:12:58] Israeli occupation. Can you talk more [00:13:00] about that history that unknown history [00:13:02] that we rarely hear about? [00:13:06] >> Sure. But it's a it's a complicated [00:13:08] history because [00:13:11] I wouldn't describe Omar Bashir's regime [00:13:13] as anti-imperialist. [00:13:15] Um when I was in Sudan in 2017, [00:13:19] there were adverts on Sudin television [00:13:22] encouraging people to join pick up arms [00:13:24] and go fight for jihad in Syria. Um, and [00:13:27] as you've covered extensively on Mint [00:13:29] Press, [00:13:31] um, uh, operation, uh, Cotip was [00:13:35] operation tickor, which was a US backed, [00:13:38] Obama backed 1 billion operation, was [00:13:41] bringing fighters from all over the [00:13:43] world to topple the Bashar alisely [00:13:48] >> sycamore. That's it. Thank you. [00:13:50] precisely because of um Assad's [00:13:55] protection of resistance groups and [00:13:57] support of resistance groups. So there's [00:14:00] that. There was also a member of the [00:14:02] PFLP [00:14:04] uh um group, a resistance group in [00:14:06] Palestine, a Venezuelan by the name of [00:14:09] Carlos the Jackal. He went to Sudan to [00:14:12] take refuge and he was drugged [00:14:16] um by the Sudin government. um and [00:14:20] handed over to France and he still sits [00:14:22] he still sits in French prison um to [00:14:25] this day. Uh no trial, no fair jewelry, [00:14:29] no trial of his peers. So it's [00:14:31] complicated. Of course, Sudan holds the [00:14:33] Muslim Brotherhood um banner and as part [00:14:38] of the Muslim Brotherhood movement, you [00:14:41] have to talk about Palestine. You have [00:14:43] to talk about Palestine to have [00:14:44] legitimacy in your own country. I'm sure [00:14:47] at some point we'll see Ahmed Shah um [00:14:50] the the self the self-declared president [00:14:52] of Syria talk about Palestine. But that [00:14:55] being said, [00:14:57] it it did play quite an interesting role [00:15:00] in a sense of Sudan, the Republic of [00:15:03] Sudan, North Sudan is majority Sunni, [00:15:06] but it didn't take a sectarian line on [00:15:09] this initially. Of course, this changed [00:15:11] in 2015. [00:15:12] >> And you're talking about Syria. [00:15:15] I'm talking No, I'm talking about Iran. [00:15:17] >> Okay. [00:15:18] >> Close relationships. He had he had close [00:15:20] relationships [00:15:22] um with Iran. Um while a lot of the the [00:15:26] Sunni regimes in the in the in the area [00:15:29] rejected any sort of association with [00:15:31] Iran purely on sectarian violence. So he [00:15:34] did have a good relationship with Iran. [00:15:37] Iran apparently used Sudan as a conduit [00:15:40] to provide weapons to resistance. How [00:15:43] much how extensive that is, we don't [00:15:45] know. Um, Israel definitely used that as [00:15:49] a pretext to push Bill Clinton to bomb [00:15:52] Saddam's largest pharmaceutical factory [00:15:55] in 1998 [00:15:57] um, shortly after the Monica Lewinsky [00:15:59] affair, but that's a story for another [00:16:01] day. Um, [00:16:03] so yeah, it's a complicated history. And [00:16:05] then of course we all know one of the [00:16:08] most revolutionary movements in the [00:16:10] whole region is the Hufi and so Allah [00:16:13] movement. [00:16:14] The Hui had to fight Sudanese soldiers [00:16:18] in Yemen who were sent by Amal Basher. [00:16:22] Um, so what happened? I guess what [00:16:25] people might not understand is there was [00:16:28] a split in Sudan between Hassan Alibabi, [00:16:33] who was allegedly a real believer of, [00:16:36] you know, the Muslim Brotherhood cause [00:16:38] and the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood [00:16:39] movement in Sudan, who was obviously [00:16:42] very keen on supporting the Palestinian [00:16:44] cause. animal al-Bashir who was a [00:16:47] general that used the language and the [00:16:49] the the clothing of the brotherhood to [00:16:52] maintain power. As soon as Hassan Alabi [00:16:55] was kicked out of the movement, then we [00:16:58] started to see the moves of Bashier [00:17:00] sending foot soldiers to fight in Yemen [00:17:04] to fight the Hufian Allah on behalf of [00:17:06] the Saudi the Saudi Saudi and UAE um [00:17:10] axis. So, it's complicated. It's [00:17:12] complicated. It's not like a Chavez [00:17:15] where from 1998 until the day they've [00:17:18] passed consistently being on the [00:17:21] anti-imperialist side [00:17:23] and there's there's a lot of um [00:17:25] flip-flopping and attempts of [00:17:27] reproachment and and and trying to get [00:17:30] back in the in the West camp and [00:17:32] actually that actually ended up being [00:17:34] his downfall. So in 2015 [00:17:38] uh they kind of cut off relations with [00:17:40] Iran and pivoted towards Saudi Arabia [00:17:42] and the UAE. This was done precisely to [00:17:46] hold on to power thinking that I'm [00:17:48] better with the West. If I do reproach [00:17:50] from the West, I can get the sanctions [00:17:52] relieved. I can um I'm better that I can [00:17:56] get some of that Gulf Arab money. Um but [00:17:58] when he did that, you know, he provided [00:18:01] foot soldiers in in Yemen. He was [00:18:03] promised by the Saudis in the UAE, if [00:18:05] you do this for us, we've got [00:18:06] Washington's ear, we'll get you back [00:18:08] into the camp. The leader of the rapid [00:18:11] support forces who was working for her [00:18:13] at the time, who was working for Basher [00:18:15] at the time, who's now leading the rapid [00:18:16] support forces, Muhammad Hamdan Daglo, [00:18:19] aka Hmeti, he had lobbied and employed a [00:18:23] Canadian lobby lobby firm called [00:18:26] Dickinson Madison. And um and there was [00:18:30] a former ex-Israeli spy called Ari [00:18:33] Benache who was paid a fee of $1 million [00:18:38] to get the Basher regime an audience [00:18:41] with Donald Trump. Um of course that [00:18:44] didn't materialize. Of course that led [00:18:46] to nothing but it showed the lengths and [00:18:49] depths that they were trying to go to to [00:18:51] get back into Washington's good books. [00:18:54] And actually why they did that, they [00:18:57] kind of let their defenses down. And [00:18:59] this is what led to the United Arab [00:19:02] Emirates courting [00:19:04] um Muhammad Hamand Daglo aka Hemeti and [00:19:08] making him their man in Sudan who would [00:19:10] then turn on Basher um and and be [00:19:13] involved in the coup that would topple [00:19:14] him at the end of 2019 at the beginning [00:19:17] end of 2018 beginning of 2019. [00:19:20] And you know, Ahmed, you know, I I did [00:19:23] that explainer on Sudan. We we all know [00:19:25] that the second a nation begins to turn [00:19:29] to the US to make these processions. [00:19:31] That's really when the United States [00:19:35] topples those governments. We saw that [00:19:37] in Syria when even Bashar Assad when he [00:19:39] just started to say, you know what, let [00:19:41] me try to get what I can get out of the [00:19:43] Saudis since we're sanctioned to help [00:19:45] rebuild our country. Next thing you [00:19:47] know, he's, you know, running away in to [00:19:50] Russia and he's been removed and now we [00:19:52] have Ahmed. Same thing with [00:19:56] the second he started to make, you know, [00:19:58] processions, he was um, you know, his [00:20:02] country was turned into a failed state [00:20:04] and bombed endlessly by NATO and he was [00:20:07] sodomized and dragged through the [00:20:08] streets. And so I think the lesson here [00:20:10] is the United States is not on your [00:20:12] side. They're not going to be on your [00:20:14] side. they don't forget that your [00:20:16] country stood against them at one point [00:20:18] and they're not going to um work with [00:20:21] you. And this is how the United States [00:20:24] acts in these situations. Then we have [00:20:26] countries like the UAE. He mentioned [00:20:28] them earlier. You know, Abu Dhabi right [00:20:31] now is a major leading proxy actor for [00:20:36] the United States in the Middle East. [00:20:38] People kind of think like Saudi Arabia [00:20:40] is like their main Gulf ally, but [00:20:42] actually the UAE, I would say, is an [00:20:44] even stronger ally to the United States [00:20:47] in terms of um carrying out, you know, [00:20:50] US imperialist missions in the region. [00:20:53] And we saw that in in Yemen and we're [00:20:55] seeing that now and we've been seeing it [00:20:57] for decades now in um in Sudan. And so [00:21:01] the UAE right now has been arming the [00:21:05] RSF. They basically trained them to [00:21:07] become the military that they are today [00:21:10] that we've seen committing horrific [00:21:12] crimes on camera from rapings to [00:21:15] executions on camera. And they're just [00:21:17] like the Israelis. They're proudly [00:21:18] posting them on their social media. Like [00:21:20] they're just totally proudly posting [00:21:22] these crimes. And the UAE is the second [00:21:25] largest exporter of gold in the world. [00:21:28] And they don't even have any gold mines. [00:21:30] None. They're getting this gold. They're [00:21:32] they're extracting this gold illegally [00:21:35] from Sudan while the people there are [00:21:38] starving. I mean, when I look at images [00:21:40] of Abu Dhabi, it just disgusts me how [00:21:43] addicted they are to this wealth that [00:21:46] doesn't even belong to them. Can you [00:21:48] comment on that? [00:21:51] >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it's not just in [00:21:54] Sudan. Um, it's the whole they've got a [00:21:57] whole Africa project right now. So [00:22:00] they've been backing uh General Hafta in [00:22:03] Libya. Um they've also now propping up [00:22:07] Abi Ahmed in in Ethiopia which the US is [00:22:11] desperate to push into a confrontation [00:22:13] with a betraya which is which [00:22:16] historically is the only country in [00:22:18] Africa that doesn't have any [00:22:20] militarytoilitary alliance with Africa [00:22:24] was the second when they kicked out the [00:22:25] Afric uh base um after the revolution [00:22:29] after the coup and then the revol the [00:22:31] coup which was a revolutionary who um [00:22:35] yeah and they're just constantly causing [00:22:38] problems. They um they pushed for [00:22:42] recognition of Somali land um which then [00:22:46] you know Somali lands a breakaway [00:22:48] territory of Somalia um which then [00:22:51] forced the Somali president's hand. So [00:22:54] now they've got good relations with [00:22:55] Somalia uh because Somalia doesn't want [00:22:58] to see um them kind of push for this [00:23:04] fake recognition of an autonomous region [00:23:07] of the country which is still part of [00:23:08] Somalia. Um and then they're using their [00:23:12] company called Blue Carbon to offset [00:23:14] their carbon credits by buying up buying [00:23:17] up arable and forest land throughout [00:23:19] Africa. So they're buying up huge swaves [00:23:22] of forest in Liberia, huge waves of [00:23:26] arable land in Kenya, huge waves of [00:23:28] arable land in Zambia in Zimbabwe. And [00:23:31] they're using this to say, "Look, we're [00:23:34] uh we don't have any problem with with [00:23:36] um with with pollution cuz we we managed [00:23:40] to offset our carbon credits with with [00:23:42] all of this arable land and forest land [00:23:44] that we've got in Africa." What the UAE [00:23:46] is basically trying to do, it's seen the [00:23:49] playbook. It realizes despite you know [00:23:53] what the west says about models of [00:23:55] development, most of the development [00:23:57] comes through imperialism. Yeah. If we [00:23:59] look at the G20 for example, if we look [00:24:02] at the develop uh the the the the [00:24:05] so-called developed world, the France, [00:24:08] UK, the US, Canada, Belgium, these are [00:24:13] places that either have colonial history [00:24:17] or neoc colonial or imperialist history. [00:24:20] Um and so the UAE recognizes that it [00:24:24] wants if it really wants to develop, if [00:24:25] it really wants to move beyond being a [00:24:27] pro state, it has to see see um get more [00:24:33] arable land in the African continent. It [00:24:36] imports 90% of its food. Um the oil will [00:24:40] eventually run out. When it will happen, [00:24:42] different economists has predictions of [00:24:44] when that will happen. Will it happen in [00:24:45] the next 50 years, next 100 years, but [00:24:47] it definitely will run out. So they're [00:24:49] trying to diversify their economy not by [00:24:51] producing different things but by taking [00:24:54] over other people's countries and taking [00:24:56] over the industries in Sudan. Of course [00:24:58] it's the gold sector but it's also the [00:25:01] the the arable land a place called [00:25:03] Alazer state. Sudan is the third largest [00:25:07] country in Africa but we have the [00:25:08] largest arable land. Algeria is the [00:25:11] largest country but so much of it is [00:25:12] desert. Congo, so much of it is forest, [00:25:15] but we have huge, huge farmland. Um, and [00:25:19] that was one of the first places that [00:25:20] the RSF tried to take over. They were [00:25:22] eventually pushed out by the Sudanese [00:25:24] army last year. But still, it it shows [00:25:27] that the ambition isn't just gold. It [00:25:30] isn't just the Red Sea. It's also also [00:25:33] the land. It's also the cattle. It's [00:25:35] also food production. Um, and yeah, it's [00:25:39] allowed to do this. Um because just was [00:25:43] it was it recently on a trip to to the [00:25:46] White House we saw Saudi Arabia pledged [00:25:49] to give what a trillion the UAE pledged [00:25:52] to give 600 million. This is basically [00:25:57] the same structure of a mafia. In a [00:25:59] mafia you have the captain, you have the [00:26:02] under boss and then you have the boss. [00:26:04] The captain kicks up to the under boss. [00:26:06] the under boss kicks up to the um to the [00:26:09] boss. In the situation in Sudan, the [00:26:12] captain would be Muhammad Hamdan Dagalo [00:26:14] aka Hemeti. The under boss would be the [00:26:17] UAE and the final boss would be the [00:26:20] United States. So, as much profit as the [00:26:24] UAE is making out of our continent, best [00:26:27] believe there's kickbacks provided to [00:26:31] the person that allows them, the entity [00:26:32] that allows them to operate in this way. [00:26:37] Well, and I think a lot of people forget [00:26:38] like you mentioned like the US could [00:26:40] just pick up the phone and end this [00:26:42] crisis, but they won't because there's a [00:26:44] lot at stake here in terms of the [00:26:47] landscape, the minerals, you know, the [00:26:49] access points and this push back that [00:26:52] we're seeing by the United States to [00:26:53] push out China and Russia. um you know, [00:26:58] countries across Africa and the global [00:27:00] south in general are choosing to work [00:27:04] with China and Russia or China and [00:27:06] Russia because they're not necessarily [00:27:09] threatening to overthrow their [00:27:10] governments. They're more respectful of [00:27:12] those countries culture and traditions [00:27:15] and are pulling people out of poverty. [00:27:18] It's not perfect, but it does give these [00:27:21] global south countries another option [00:27:24] that is not US imperialism because US [00:27:26] imperialism has shown to benefit uh a [00:27:30] very specific 1% and to plunder [00:27:32] countries. They don't want the US does [00:27:35] not want to see and Israel of course and [00:27:37] its proxies don't want to see any [00:27:40] country in the global south uh rise to [00:27:44] its true potential. So how has that also [00:27:47] played um with this conflict in Sudan? [00:27:53] Yeah, I mean at the beginning of the [00:27:55] conflict like I said it was it was [00:27:57] difficult to see as it first started who [00:27:59] was the US backing who who where did the [00:28:02] US interest lie in in here both generals [00:28:05] were involved in the normalization deal [00:28:07] the Abraham Accords both generals pushed [00:28:09] it both generals celebrated it um um but [00:28:13] then as the conflict developed and we [00:28:16] started to see new players enter the [00:28:18] field for example um Algeria IA was [00:28:22] supporting the Sudanese army and the [00:28:25] Russians were providing the Algerians [00:28:27] with new fighter jets and the Algerians [00:28:29] were selling their old fighter jets to [00:28:31] the Sudin army. The Iranians were [00:28:34] providing drone uh drone um technology [00:28:38] to the Sudanese army. Russia was [00:28:41] providing logistical support to the [00:28:42] Sudin army. And once they started to see [00:28:46] those types of players on one side of [00:28:48] the army, on one side of the conflict, [00:28:50] the US clearly started to shift um and [00:28:54] started to to move towards the um [00:28:57] backing of the RSF via the UAE. And [00:29:00] we've seen this in the latest peace [00:29:01] deal. The latest peace deal [00:29:04] talks about basically disarming the [00:29:07] army, ridding it uh ridding the army of [00:29:11] the Muslim Brotherhood. um talking about [00:29:14] it as an extremist group, but very [00:29:17] little is said about the RSF. Now, you [00:29:18] mentioned at the beginning of the show, [00:29:20] the footage, the massacres, the sexual [00:29:24] assault, etc. And the Sudin people by [00:29:28] and large support the Sudin army, not [00:29:30] because the army is perfect, because [00:29:32] they see this as almost a second [00:29:34] independence. [00:29:36] because we have a foreign backed [00:29:38] insurgency [00:29:40] by a Gulf monarchy that's trying to take [00:29:43] over our country. Um, and while the [00:29:46] Sudanese army is not perfect, um, we [00:29:49] have primary contradiction and the [00:29:51] primary contradiction is defeating the [00:29:53] RSF. Um, so yeah, the the it's becoming [00:29:58] more and more clearer and even the Al [00:30:01] Bhan who's been very reserved in his [00:30:03] criticism of the of of the United States [00:30:06] was very very clear in condemning them [00:30:08] and condemning the US envoy saying that [00:30:11] the paper that they presented might as [00:30:13] well been presented by the RSF and might [00:30:16] as well been presented by the UAE. So [00:30:18] it's not a it's not a neutral um [00:30:21] mediator. [00:30:23] Um, the RSF as well is starting to use [00:30:26] the language of Israel. So, there's an [00:30:28] RSF spokesman on an Israeli television [00:30:31] saying that the Sudanese army is the [00:30:33] Hamas of Africa. [00:30:35] >> So, they're really trying to use the [00:30:38] settler colonial conflict that's [00:30:40] happening in Gaza and use that to push [00:30:44] and sway the US to give them more [00:30:46] support. Um, the US has sanctioned RSF [00:30:50] officials and RSF companies, but it's [00:30:54] done it in a very tokenistic way. So, [00:30:56] they sanctioned RSF companies that are [00:30:58] operating in the UAE, but have said [00:31:00] nothing about the UAE. Um, they [00:31:03] sanctioned HTT's brother, um, but [00:31:06] haven't sanctioned HTI. Um [00:31:10] I everything about their engagement with [00:31:12] Sudan right now seems to be a [00:31:15] performance as opposed to a real attempt [00:31:18] to stop the conflict. Um and I think [00:31:21] what really is happening is there [00:31:23] probably behind the scene conversations [00:31:25] happening with all Albahan and says yeah [00:31:28] we're being we've been very partisan [00:31:29] with this. Yeah we might have been fair [00:31:31] we've not been fair but you're you're [00:31:33] mixing with fellows that we're not very [00:31:35] appreciative of. So if you want to see [00:31:38] the US more favorable towards the Sudin [00:31:40] army, you need to disassociate yourself [00:31:42] from the from these um entities that we [00:31:46] have problems with, principally Algeria, [00:31:48] Russia, and Iran. [00:31:50] And um you know my final question about [00:31:52] Sudan. Of course we're going to talk [00:31:53] about other topics but on Sudan you know [00:31:56] you recently stated that the breakup of [00:31:58] Sudan in 2011 into two countries which [00:32:01] by the way was very much influenced by [00:32:03] the United States and Israel turned into [00:32:06] Sudan and South Sudan has been a [00:32:08] disaster for both bringing with it [00:32:10] division and increased rule and [00:32:13] influence from the outside like we just [00:32:15] talked about. Do you think there's a [00:32:16] need for people from both countries to [00:32:18] at least explore the possibility of [00:32:21] reunification at some stage in the [00:32:23] future, you know, to become a stronger [00:32:26] united front in the face of this uh [00:32:29] imperialist agenda to keep Sudan into a [00:32:31] failed state? [00:32:35] >> Yeah. Yeah. But I was quickly told by my [00:32:38] South Sudanese friends there's no chance [00:32:40] of that happening. Um, unfortunately [00:32:43] there were so many crimes committed by [00:32:46] the northern elite against the people of [00:32:48] South Sudan [00:32:50] and there was no real attempt to [00:32:52] rectify, apologize, repair the damage, [00:32:55] anything like that. And the this is this [00:32:58] is a recent conflict. So these pe these [00:33:00] are people's aunts, uncles, granddads [00:33:03] that were brutalized. Um, so that's the [00:33:06] issue. Um, but if we were to look at it [00:33:08] purely pragmatically, of course we need [00:33:10] to reunify. Of course we need to unify. [00:33:13] I mean, as a panafricanist, I'm for the [00:33:16] unification of all Africa based on this [00:33:18] precise problem as we're atomized, [00:33:22] separated as individual states. [00:33:25] We're picked off and pitted against each [00:33:27] other. Um you the reason why nijair had [00:33:32] this exploitative relationship with [00:33:34] France regarding uranium is because it [00:33:37] had no other option is because the re if [00:33:42] if it wasn't getting the uranium from [00:33:43] nijair it would get it from one of the [00:33:46] other 54 African countries um we need a [00:33:50] unified policy right now we're asking [00:33:53] for a seat at the at the United Nations [00:33:55] security council there's no African [00:33:57] repres representation. How do we ask for [00:34:00] a seat as Chad? How do we ask for a C as [00:34:04] Lutu [00:34:06] or Zambia? But imagine if we were 54 [00:34:09] African countries with united demand and [00:34:11] say, "No, while we have no [00:34:14] representation, we're cutting off all [00:34:16] trade for 90 days until you take us [00:34:19] seriously. You have more negotiating [00:34:21] power. We're 1.4 billion people. China's [00:34:24] 1.4 billion. India's 1.3 billion. So to [00:34:28] say it can't be done is nonsensical. It [00:34:30] can be done and these countries are [00:34:32] strong. And now India's GDP is bigger [00:34:35] than its former colonial power the [00:34:37] United Kingdom. Uh China is accord based [00:34:41] on purchasing power the largest economy [00:34:42] in the world. Uh united united uh block [00:34:48] we can negotiate. We can rei reite our [00:34:51] resources. We can unite our militaries. [00:34:54] we can fight this this this [00:34:57] devastating problem of terrorism. The [00:34:59] AES is trying to unite as three [00:35:01] countries to fight [00:35:04] uh what many people call the western [00:35:05] back terrorist forces in the Sahal. If [00:35:08] it was 54 countries, these these forces [00:35:10] will be defeated within a week, within a [00:35:12] month. Um so yeah, unity unification is [00:35:16] always always better. And as we're [00:35:18] atomized, we're weak and and we're [00:35:20] easily picked off and exploited. Of [00:35:22] course, I mean, that's what we saw in [00:35:23] the Middle East with Sykespico, this [00:35:26] plan to break up all these countries [00:35:28] into smaller little nations where people [00:35:31] are less united. And, you know, we we're [00:35:33] seeing that now with the plans for [00:35:35] Syria, what happened in Iraq, and who [00:35:39] knows what will what will happen um [00:35:41] next. But I I really want to move on to [00:35:43] Nigeria now because hey Nicki Minaj out [00:35:46] of all people recently spoke at the UN [00:35:49] at the United Nations highlighting the [00:35:51] plight of Nigeria's uh Christian [00:35:53] community and you know she claimed that [00:35:56] there is a systematic campaign against [00:35:58] them amounting to a genocide and just [00:36:00] like in Sudan that right conservative [00:36:03] movement in the US was kind of you know [00:36:06] pulled together to support the [00:36:07] Christians there I see the same thing [00:36:09] kind of taking place again in Nigeria. [00:36:11] neria. So during her speech, she thanked [00:36:14] President Trump for standing up for [00:36:15] Nigeria's Christians. She went on [00:36:17] Twitter to do the same thing. And people [00:36:20] of course went at her because where was [00:36:23] she when Israel was wiping out the most [00:36:26] historic Christians in Gaza, the ones [00:36:29] that are directly linked um to Jesus and [00:36:32] Mary's bloodline. So what do you make of [00:36:35] this event, Ahmed? Is what Trump and [00:36:37] Nicki Minaj uh are saying, is it true? I [00:36:40] mean is there a genocide against [00:36:42] Christians in Niger Nigeria and what [00:36:44] exactly is going on? [00:36:47] >> There's not a genocide but there are [00:36:50] killings of all groups. So animist [00:36:53] groups, Muslim groups, Christian groups [00:36:57] and this comes from the fact of the [00:36:59] Nigerian state is weak. [00:37:02] It's badly mismanaged. There are people [00:37:04] with economic grievances. The north is [00:37:08] severely underdeveloped. Nigeria has [00:37:11] some of the worst statistics you could [00:37:13] find. It has the most people living in [00:37:15] extreme poverty in the world. Over it [00:37:19] overtook India and India has five times [00:37:22] the population. [00:37:23] Um it's the worst place for mothers to [00:37:26] give birth. The highest maternal [00:37:28] mortality mortality. [00:37:31] Um it has high illiteracy illit [00:37:35] illiteracy rates. Um by all by all [00:37:39] measures it's a failed government. Yeah. [00:37:42] Um and they know this because they've [00:37:45] been part of pushing [00:37:47] client states and client leaders. The [00:37:49] most recent one Ahmed Tanibu who's [00:37:52] mentioned in the Wikileaks files as as [00:37:55] um as being a CIA asset who's the [00:37:57] current president of Nigeria. That's [00:37:59] another example of what we talked about [00:38:01] before. Um it's the famous saying by [00:38:04] Henry Kissinger, being an enemy of of [00:38:07] the United States is dangerous, but [00:38:10] being our friend is fatal. Cuz if [00:38:12] they're pushing this on Nigeria where [00:38:14] they've got their friend sitting at the [00:38:16] helm, then what hopes do the US's [00:38:20] enemies have? Um but yeah, there's [00:38:23] there's a couple of problems. Obviously, [00:38:25] there's the Boka Haram insurgency. [00:38:27] There's also a bandit problem um which [00:38:31] is related to land disputes with nomadic [00:38:34] tribes um um who you know I don't want [00:38:39] to I don't want to give them any [00:38:41] legitimacy because they've gotten none [00:38:43] but out of economic desperation they've [00:38:46] been attacking and looting and stealing. [00:38:49] Um and this also comes as the backdrop [00:38:52] of 2011. What happened in 2011? [00:38:56] They they funded the Libyan Islamic [00:38:59] fighting group. They encouraged rebels [00:39:02] from all over the world, but [00:39:03] particularly in Africa to flood to flood [00:39:06] to Libya to overthrow Mama Gaddafi. [00:39:09] After they overthrew Mamar Gaddafi in a [00:39:12] country as large as Libya, what happened [00:39:14] to all those weapons? They obviously got [00:39:16] sold in the black market. Now Africa has [00:39:20] become the epicenter [00:39:22] of a terrorism problem which we didn't [00:39:25] have before 2011. We're now seeing a [00:39:29] terrorist threat in Bikina Fasa, a [00:39:30] terrorist threat in Malia, a terrorist [00:39:33] threat in Niger, terrorist threat in the [00:39:36] Central African Republic, terrorist [00:39:37] threat in Chad. These places didn't have [00:39:40] terrorism problems before 2011. Of [00:39:43] course, the US doesn't include this in [00:39:45] their analysis. you know, we've made [00:39:47] life more difficult for Christians, [00:39:49] Muslims, and animists, and all Africans [00:39:52] because of our 20 2011 um backing of of [00:39:56] militant takiri rebel groups in Libya. [00:40:00] Um so yeah, I mean, and Nicki Minaj's [00:40:03] involvement, [00:40:06] I don't know what to say. It's it's it's [00:40:08] so opportunistic [00:40:11] um and devoid of any real compassion [00:40:14] because you mentioned the Palestinian [00:40:15] Christians. We could also mention the [00:40:18] Syrian Christians [00:40:20] um uh who after the guy that was that [00:40:23] was that was shooting basketball hoops [00:40:26] in Washington um uh um al- Shar Ahmed [00:40:30] al- Shar [00:40:31] >> formerly known as Al Jalani. [00:40:33] >> Um after his group of terrorist fighters [00:40:37] took over Syria, what did we see happen [00:40:38] to Christians? [00:40:40] >> What did we see happen to Alawites? What [00:40:41] did we see happen to Jews? Where was [00:40:43] Nicki Minaj then? Did you It's It's [00:40:46] clearly about the oil in Nigeria, [00:40:51] the mineral wealth in Nigeria, [00:40:53] and they don't like the idea that not [00:40:57] the Nigerian government, but Nigerian [00:40:59] businessmen have been taking more [00:41:03] have been taking economic decisions on [00:41:06] Nigeria sovereignty. Who am I talking [00:41:08] about? A guy called Dangoti. He is an [00:41:11] oil baron. I'm not usually a fan of [00:41:13] billionaire oil barons, but one of the [00:41:15] things that he did was he was like, [00:41:17] "This is ridiculous. We're the biggest [00:41:19] oil producer in Africa, yet we export, [00:41:24] we export oil, but then we import fuel. [00:41:28] How does that make any sense? Why don't [00:41:30] we have any oil refineries in Nigeria?" [00:41:34] Um, and of course this this sent a huge [00:41:38] a huge shock wave to the to the [00:41:41] multinational oil uh uh companies [00:41:44] because they're like, well, if this [00:41:45] happens in Nigeria, this might happen in [00:41:48] Angola, [00:41:49] this might happen in South Sudan, this [00:41:51] might happen in many of the other [00:41:52] countries, Libya, where they have huge [00:41:55] oil reserves. Um, so I think it's about [00:41:59] putting Nigeria back in its place. It's [00:42:02] about um securing mineral wealth in [00:42:06] Nigeria and securing long-term oil [00:42:09] interest in Nigeria. It's not about [00:42:12] Nigerian Christians and and and also [00:42:15] it's not about Nigerians because it's [00:42:17] not just Christians that are being [00:42:19] killed. I want to play this video of um [00:42:23] how Malcolm X saw somebody like Nicki [00:42:25] Minaj. [00:42:27] >> Just told you a little while ago these [00:42:28] leaders that they called leaders. This [00:42:30] included Lena Horn. This included Dick [00:42:33] Gregory. And this included comedians, [00:42:35] comics, trumpet players, baseball [00:42:37] players. Show me in the white community [00:42:40] where a comedian is a white leader. Show [00:42:42] me in the white community where a singer [00:42:44] is a white leader or a dancer or a [00:42:46] trumpet player is a white leader. These [00:42:48] aren't leaders. These are puppets and [00:42:50] clowns that uh have been set up over the [00:42:53] white community and over the black [00:42:55] community by the white community and [00:42:58] have been made celebrities and usually [00:43:00] say exactly what uh they know that the [00:43:02] white man wants to hear. [00:43:05] I would like to thank President Trump [00:43:08] for prioritizing this issue and for his [00:43:11] leadership on the global stage in [00:43:13] calling for urgent action to defend [00:43:15] Christians in Nigeria, to combat [00:43:18] extremism, and to bring a stop to [00:43:20] violence against those who simply want [00:43:22] to exercise their natural right to [00:43:25] freedom of religion or belief. So what's [00:43:28] crazy about all of this is that Trump is [00:43:30] threatening to intervene in Nigeria, but [00:43:32] actually Nigeria has been one of [00:43:34] Washington's closest allies in the [00:43:36] region. Um especially under um President [00:43:40] Bullah Tinubu. So [00:43:44] usually it is, you know, the when when [00:43:46] the US wants to intervene in a country, [00:43:48] it's countries that are aligned with [00:43:51] Iran or North Korea or Venezuela. And in [00:43:54] this case, it's actually the complete [00:43:56] opposite. So um and then then also [00:43:58] Nigeria is a key member of the ECOS [00:44:02] which is the western approved economic [00:44:04] and military alliance. Could you tell us [00:44:06] a little bit more about the US Nigeria [00:44:08] relationship under Tonubu? [00:44:13] Yeah, I mean so when there was the [00:44:15] revolutionary coup that happened in this [00:44:17] year Nigeria [00:44:20] um which is obviously English-sp [00:44:22] speakaking country I say that because [00:44:24] usually France's client states in the [00:44:26] region are the former franophhone [00:44:28] countries was pushing for Echoas which [00:44:32] is a block which is dominate is [00:44:34] dominated and controlled by France to [00:44:37] invade Nigeria [00:44:39] um um and reinstall the Frenchbacked [00:44:43] president Muhammad Bazoo [00:44:46] and that's what started the AES. So [00:44:48] Bikina Faso and Miley said if you invade [00:44:52] Nijair you'll have to invade us too [00:44:54] because we're going to come to Nijair's [00:44:55] defense. [00:44:57] Um and so that started the military [00:44:59] cooperation between the three countries [00:45:01] which then led to a military cooperation [00:45:04] to fight against the terrorist groups [00:45:06] which then led to the economic [00:45:08] cooperation and now we see AES where [00:45:12] their foreign policy is mirrored. If you [00:45:14] do something in one country, if you know [00:45:16] when they had their problem with [00:45:18] Ukraine, uh the the Pikina Faso and [00:45:21] Marley al when Marley had a problem with [00:45:23] Ukraine, Pikina Faso and Marley also [00:45:26] issued statements of condemnation. [00:45:29] Um so that's actually one of the [00:45:30] theories that this isn't about Nigeria [00:45:33] at all. This is really about Nishair and [00:45:37] really about breaking up the AES. I [00:45:40] mentioned it earlier [00:45:43] was the only country to not have a [00:45:46] military to military alliance with [00:45:47] African. The second country was Nijer. [00:45:53] So it it stands out in a sense of [00:45:56] fantastic things have happened in Bikina [00:45:58] Faso and Mali but they kicked out the [00:46:00] French. It's impressive but France is [00:46:03] not the US. The US is a whole another [00:46:06] power. Nishair kicked out the French and [00:46:09] the US. Um and and as you mentioned [00:46:12] before, there's something called the [00:46:14] threat of the bad example. Yeah. The [00:46:17] reason why they're determined to take [00:46:19] over Venezuela, [00:46:21] um the reason why they're determined to [00:46:22] take over Nicaragua and Iran and all [00:46:24] these other places is they they it's not [00:46:28] just about what's going on in those [00:46:29] countries. It's about the threat of the [00:46:31] bad example that someone else might [00:46:33] copy. Someone someone else might do [00:46:35] their own Bolivarian revolution. [00:46:38] Somewhere else in the region might have [00:46:40] their own Islamic revolution like what [00:46:42] happened in Iran. And what they're [00:46:44] worried about Nijair is hold on a [00:46:47] second. If Ner is able to kick out our [00:46:51] largest drone base in Africa to to to [00:46:55] say that they don't want to have any [00:46:56] military cooperation with Africa. What [00:46:58] happens if other countries follow follow [00:47:01] suit? What happens if Djibouti, which [00:47:04] hosts a huge US base, follows suit? What [00:47:08] happens if Liberia follows suit? Um, so [00:47:12] yeah, it does seem odd that it would [00:47:15] attack an ally like this and threaten to [00:47:17] attack an ally like this. But how the US [00:47:21] operates, many people are saying, "Yeah, [00:47:24] they might be talking about Nigeria, but [00:47:26] don't be surprised if this is really [00:47:27] about the AES and really about punishing [00:47:31] Nijair of daring to take a sovereign [00:47:33] decision and deciding who its military [00:47:36] partners should be and who its military [00:47:37] partners won't be." [00:47:38] >> Well, yeah. And Nigeria in general is [00:47:40] just such an interesting country because [00:47:42] 59% of the country actually holds a [00:47:45] positive view of Israel. Um Nigeria is a [00:47:49] very close ally of the state of Israel. [00:47:54] And we have also Chevron, I think it's [00:47:57] Chevron, correct me if I'm wrong, that's [00:47:58] operating also inside of Nigeria, you [00:48:02] know, taking up all that oil. And if you [00:48:04] actually look at what's happening in the [00:48:05] places where Nigeria is extracting the [00:48:07] oil or Chevron is extracting the oil, [00:48:10] it's like there's like miles longs of [00:48:12] like slums, people living in abstract [00:48:16] poverty. Like it's it's such a perfect [00:48:19] example of how like neoliberalism, I [00:48:21] guess you could say, took over a [00:48:23] country, brought the corporations in, [00:48:25] allied it with Israel. Now it's like [00:48:27] this kind of propped up, you know, [00:48:30] USbacked country. And that's what the [00:48:34] results are. Are people living in this [00:48:36] abstract poverty while these um you know [00:48:39] the hawks come in. Anything that you [00:48:42] want to add to that? [00:48:45] >> Yeah, I mean what you just mentioned is [00:48:46] a place called the Niger Delta region uh [00:48:49] where it's not it's not just Chevron, [00:48:51] it's Shell, it's Exxon Mobile, it's [00:48:54] Total, all of them. It's been a field [00:48:56] day. Um [00:48:58] >> and there was a climate real climate [00:49:02] change activist in Niger in Nigeria [00:49:05] um who were protesting against this and [00:49:09] we have [00:49:11] uh released documents that show that Sha [00:49:15] pushed the military dictatorship of [00:49:17] Nigeria at the time to push to execute [00:49:19] these people. [00:49:21] Um, so it's it, you know, in many ways [00:49:25] Nigeria is not a real state. It's a it's [00:49:29] it it's a a neoc colonialist wet dream. [00:49:35] Yeah. It it it never had any [00:49:38] revolutionary leadership. It ne it has [00:49:42] all the potential in the world. So, I've [00:49:44] said this on a previous podcast, but [00:49:47] look at how Nigerians perform outside [00:49:49] the country. In the UK, year one year, [00:49:54] Nigerian students, there's one family [00:49:57] where each one of the family members had [00:50:00] managed to get into Oxford by the time [00:50:02] they were like 11 years old. They [00:50:04] managed to score the highest score in [00:50:06] their GCSEs. I think there's a sim a [00:50:08] similar story happened in Netherlands [00:50:10] and similar things happens in the US. [00:50:12] Nigerians in Nigeria can't achieve [00:50:16] because the state is so weak, so rund [00:50:19] down, so driven by austerity measures, [00:50:23] so reliant on IMF loans and structural [00:50:26] adjustment programs [00:50:29] um that it can't do anything to the huge [00:50:32] potential that it has. 210 million [00:50:35] people, young population, brilliant [00:50:39] minds, but starved by neoc colonial [00:50:42] puppet regime after neocolonial puppet [00:50:44] regime. We're just hoping that the [00:50:47] latest threats by Trump has just woke a [00:50:49] few people up. Um because if like we [00:50:53] we've mentioned, if they can do this and [00:50:55] threaten and essentially delegitimize [00:50:58] their client, Bah Ahmed Tanu, then [00:51:01] what's the point of being a client? you [00:51:02] might as well take a revolutionary path [00:51:04] that the Ibrahim Chore [00:51:07] uh the Abdul Rahman Tiani the Aima Go [00:51:11] have taken in Mali Nija and Bikina Fasa [00:51:14] um because if you don't they'll still [00:51:16] come after you anyway [00:51:18] >> and there's a small group of I mean I [00:51:20] don't know if they're super small but [00:51:21] there's a you know a group of uh Shia [00:51:24] inside of Nigeria who've also been uh [00:51:27] heavily uh persecuted led by Ibrahim al [00:51:31] Zaki He's a Shia leader inside of [00:51:34] Nigeria who has strongly disagreed with [00:51:36] the stance of the government aligning [00:51:39] itself with the state of Israel and he's [00:51:41] actually called for unity with the [00:51:43] Christians there and he has supported [00:51:45] resistance groups of course but he and [00:51:48] his family have been targeted. I mean, I [00:51:50] think the Nigerian military actually [00:51:52] executed his sons um in front of him. [00:51:57] And what can you tell us about Zak Zaki [00:52:00] and this kind of Nigerian alliance with [00:52:02] the state of Israel and how that's [00:52:03] affected the country? [00:52:07] >> Yeah, I mean um Sheik Zak Zaki has been [00:52:10] persecuted, arrested. You mentioned it, [00:52:13] right? His son has been killed. Um [00:52:17] they're just the thing is when you're [00:52:20] running a heist, you're very worried [00:52:23] about any potential popular movement [00:52:26] that's going to recognize this is a [00:52:27] heist and convince other people that [00:52:29] this is a heist. So Nigeria has always [00:52:32] persecuted [00:52:34] community activist, community [00:52:35] leadership. Um one of my former African [00:52:38] stream colleagues, David Hyundai, he's [00:52:41] an exile. he can't go back to Nigeria U [00:52:44] because he he helped to expose um Bola [00:52:47] Ahmed Tanubi Bola Ahmed Tanubu as being [00:52:51] a US CIA asset um way back from when he [00:52:55] was the governor of Lagos. [00:52:57] >> Um so the persecution of Shik Zak Zaki [00:53:01] didn't start with Bahuni. It's been [00:53:03] going on from successive Nigerian [00:53:05] governments precisely because it's not a [00:53:08] real state. It's a it's a a robbery of [00:53:13] Nigeria's resources [00:53:15] by [00:53:17] European Western elites with the [00:53:19] collaboration of the middle of the [00:53:22] middlemen who happen to be the Nigerian [00:53:25] leadership, the Nigerian governance, the [00:53:27] n the governor of Lagos, the Nigerian [00:53:30] president, the Nigeria foreign minister, [00:53:32] etc. Um and Nigeria is one of those [00:53:34] countries where they know the state has [00:53:37] been systematically robbed because every [00:53:40] single one of them goes abroad for their [00:53:41] medical treatment. Yeah. Bah Ahmed [00:53:44] Tanubu just came back from a foreign [00:53:46] trip for his medical treatment. Bhari, [00:53:49] his predecessor, was always in London [00:53:51] for his medical treatment. How can you [00:53:54] be the president of your country, [00:53:56] but you but you're saying our public [00:53:58] services, our private services are [00:54:01] trash? I'm going to go abroad. You have [00:54:04] the power to change that, but they don't [00:54:06] change that. Uh that, you know, it's [00:54:08] it's such a level of corruption that it [00:54:11] it affects the elites. Um that's what [00:54:14] I'd say. The difference is uh the you [00:54:17] know, there's corruption obviously that [00:54:18] happens in in Western capitals every [00:54:20] single day, but they don't rob so much [00:54:22] that they have to go on bad roads. They [00:54:25] have to travel on the same potholes as [00:54:27] everybody else. They have to land in the [00:54:29] same beaten up airport. They have to go [00:54:32] to the same hospital. So it's corruption [00:54:35] that is even detrimental to themselves. [00:54:38] And that's what's so exceptional about [00:54:41] Nigeria. [00:54:42] >> Well, then we have the opposite [00:54:44] spectrum, right? The opposite political [00:54:46] spectrum happening in West Africa where [00:54:48] we have Burkina Faso, the small [00:54:51] landlocked country which is ruled by a [00:54:54] revolutionary leader which is Ibrahim [00:54:55] Cherori. Terori has made a name for [00:54:58] himself around the world preaching [00:55:00] pan-Africanism [00:55:02] and contentwide revolution so popular as [00:55:04] he that even the BBC described him as an [00:55:07] African cheer and noted that he noted [00:55:11] that he has captured the hearts and [00:55:13] minds around the world. What have you [00:55:15] made of him? [00:55:16] >> Yeah, I mean um he's he's remarkable. um [00:55:20] he obviously gets most of the plaudits [00:55:22] because he's a handsome guy, speaks very [00:55:25] well, but all three of the leaders are [00:55:27] really remarkable. All three of the [00:55:29] leaders are doing exceptional things. Um [00:55:32] and Ibrahim Toé is very keen on sharing [00:55:35] the limelight as well because what's [00:55:37] going on in in the Sahal is [00:55:40] revolutionary and it's inspirational. [00:55:42] The example that I give, I lived in [00:55:45] Ghana in 2015 [00:55:49] and uh President Muhammad [00:55:52] uh was the president of Ghana. Then he [00:55:56] he got the role because he was the vice [00:55:58] president and he's he's the president [00:56:00] had passed away. So he became the [00:56:02] president. He then lost [00:56:05] um his uh his seat and was out of office [00:56:07] for eight years. He's now reelected as [00:56:09] the president of Ghana. Muhammad today [00:56:12] is completely different to Muhammad of [00:56:14] 2015. [00:56:16] That's because at his inauguration, he [00:56:19] invited Captain Ibrahim Chu. The loudest [00:56:22] cheer from the Ghanaian masses was for [00:56:26] Ibrahim Chu. And you can literally see [00:56:28] it on the face of Muhammad. I want some [00:56:30] of this. Whatever this this young man is [00:56:33] selling, whatever this this [00:56:35] pan-Africanism, [00:56:37] this revolution, you know, I'm an old [00:56:39] man. I want to be I want to be cheered [00:56:41] by the masses. I want to be adored by [00:56:44] the masses. So, he started to take a [00:56:47] more revolutionary path. And that's the [00:56:49] power of what's going on in the AES. [00:56:51] We're seeing time and time again [00:56:54] um an attempt to mirror what's going on [00:56:58] in the as not mirror it in any real [00:57:00] sense you know obviously with with [00:57:02] lipstick and lip gloss but the fact that [00:57:05] they're trying to show the people that [00:57:09] we're the next Iraham Shore where the [00:57:10] next Asima go where the next Tani shows [00:57:14] the powerful influence that the AS is [00:57:15] having. Um we saw that just recently [00:57:19] where there was a fake coup that [00:57:21] happened in Guinea Basau [00:57:24] um where the revolutionary group the P [00:57:27] AIGC [00:57:29] was banned from standing in the [00:57:31] presidential election. So then they [00:57:34] endorsed a candidate called Diaz [00:57:37] um who won the election and when he won [00:57:40] the election, the incumbent president [00:57:44] basically orchestrated a fake coup [00:57:47] hoping that the people could be could be [00:57:49] fooled into thinking this is a [00:57:51] revolutionary coup like what's happened [00:57:53] in the AES. Of course, we have comrades [00:57:56] on the ground that are members of the P [00:57:58] AI P AIGC [00:58:00] who explain it to us and we've got the [00:58:02] word out and other comrades have got the [00:58:04] word out. But it just goes to show the [00:58:06] influence [00:58:07] um you know the influence that it's [00:58:09] having on the continent. Unfortunately, [00:58:12] it's not having the level of influence [00:58:14] that we would like and fast enough, but [00:58:17] it's only it's only been, you know, a [00:58:20] few years since the AES has formed. So, [00:58:22] who knows um how it will transpire. I [00:58:26] interviewed Musa Ibrahim um who was [00:58:28] Gaddafi's former spokesman and he said, [00:58:31] "If only the AES was around while [00:58:33] Gaddafi was around, could you imagine [00:58:35] what they could do in that Sahal region [00:58:37] together with Gaddafi's resources and [00:58:40] the revolutionary leadership of these [00:58:42] three countries and the critical mass [00:58:44] mobilization and support that they have [00:58:47] internally. Uh but anyway it it's [00:58:50] remarkable and the most important thing [00:58:52] I'll say is it's not it's he gives [00:58:55] impressive speeches of course he does he [00:58:57] says impressive stuff but it's [00:58:59] infrastructure. What I think people [00:59:01] forget about Africa if you travel [00:59:03] through Africa infrastructure is the [00:59:05] most important thing. We don't need [00:59:08] western style democracy where we have a [00:59:10] two-party system where the best funded [00:59:13] candidate the one that gets himself on [00:59:15] most billboards wins the election. We [00:59:17] need infrastructure. We need roads. We [00:59:20] need bridges. This is the things that [00:59:22] affect everyone's lives. How do you have [00:59:25] education in places where 80% of the [00:59:28] population like in Asia didn't have [00:59:30] access to the electrical grid? You know, [00:59:32] what can you do? Think of all of the [00:59:35] great minds and the talent that doesn't [00:59:37] able to reach their potential. [00:59:40] How do people from the north of country [00:59:42] travel to the capital to sell their [00:59:44] goods if there's no roads? If the roads [00:59:46] are too bad, if the roads are so bad [00:59:48] where it should take you 3 hours to get [00:59:50] there, but it takes you 12 hours. It's [00:59:52] only once you travel for the continent, [00:59:54] do you realize how important [00:59:55] infrastructure is? And that's what um [00:59:58] Captain Ibraham has focused on. Paving [01:00:01] roads, building factories, trying to [01:00:05] make Bikina Faso food sovereign, setting [01:00:08] up cooperatives. This is what people are [01:00:10] excited about because they've seen [01:00:13] decades of the previous dictator Bla1 [01:00:16] Karee doing absolutely nothing, building [01:00:20] nothing, setting up a few French cafes [01:00:23] so that when the French ambassador uh [01:00:25] wants to go out to eat that he has [01:00:26] somewhere to eat, but beyond that no [01:00:28] real development. And now we're seeing [01:00:30] real development, real infrastructure, [01:00:32] and that's what people are excited [01:00:34] about. And do you foresee any sort of [01:00:36] like buildup by um you know US proxies [01:00:40] from the United States to Israel or [01:00:42] others to weaken the Borina Faso uh [01:00:46] state because of this. [01:00:50] It's very difficult for them to do it [01:00:52] because [01:00:55] although the narrative is fake and false [01:00:59] in 2001 after the September 11th attacks [01:01:02] they said we are fighting a war on [01:01:04] terror. We are fighting a war on terror. [01:01:08] So if they do anything to topple the [01:01:10] free countries [01:01:12] who are the epicenter of this fight [01:01:14] against terror, it would expose I mean [01:01:18] we already know they're hypocrites but [01:01:19] it would expose a novel level of [01:01:21] hypocrisy because you can't you know [01:01:24] they always need a narrative to sell. [01:01:26] They can't say Ibrahim Chu is a [01:01:28] terrorist. You know he's obviously [01:01:30] fighting a terrorist. Can they what can [01:01:33] they go down the Maduro route and say [01:01:34] he's a narot trafficker? Uh maybe. But [01:01:37] they they need to plant seeds and that [01:01:39] those seeds would need to to grow many [01:01:41] years from now. So they don't really [01:01:43] have the narrative. They they threw they [01:01:45] through mud against the wall to see what [01:01:47] sticks. Nothing stuck so far. Yeah. [01:01:50] They've initially tried to say um uh [01:01:54] that he's using the gold of his of the [01:01:56] country to enrich himself. We saw mass [01:01:59] mobilization against that. We saw [01:02:01] protest in London. We saw protest in the [01:02:03] US. you saw protest an attempted protest [01:02:05] in Nigeria but it was shut down by the [01:02:07] government before he got going. Um all [01:02:09] in defense of impro so that didn't work. [01:02:12] Um then they try to say [01:02:15] um uh he's targeting the fani tribe uh [01:02:19] in in uh in Bikina Fasa which doesn't [01:02:22] make sense because fanis are part of the [01:02:24] government ded. [01:02:26] The latest one that they've tried um to [01:02:29] to weaken his support from progressives [01:02:32] and leftist movements against the world [01:02:33] is Ibraham Chore is a homophobe. He's [01:02:37] pushed through this anti-LGBT law. I [01:02:40] mean again it doesn't stick because look [01:02:43] at who the US's allies are. Is [01:02:46] homosexuality legal in Saudi Arabia? Is [01:02:49] it legal in Qatar? Is it legal in any of [01:02:52] these places where you know the US is [01:02:54] has got strong um alliance with? So to [01:02:57] single out Iraham Chore out of all the [01:02:59] countries that have anti-LGBTQ [01:03:01] laws is clearly an attempt of the you [01:03:05] know putting a pink face on imperialism. [01:03:08] Um, of course it has worked with a few [01:03:10] liberals in the US. I've seen it on a [01:03:12] few of our posts like, "Oh, he's he's [01:03:14] anti this and he's anti that." But by [01:03:16] and large, it's not enough to to to lay [01:03:19] the groundwork to make the ground [01:03:21] fertile for some sort of military [01:03:23] intervention. It doesn't mean that it [01:03:25] won't happen in the future, but they [01:03:26] just need a better excuse than they've [01:03:28] got now. [01:03:30] Well, Ahmed Kabalo, you have been such a [01:03:33] wealth of information and knowledge and [01:03:36] just wisdom from the African region. So, [01:03:38] we really appreciate you being on here. [01:03:40] I always enjoy speaking with you and, [01:03:42] you know, I learn so much from you and [01:03:43] from your perspective. And, um, you [01:03:46] have, you know, African Stream was [01:03:48] obviously shut down. We'd love to hear [01:03:50] like what your next plans are, where [01:03:52] people can find your work and how people [01:03:54] can support you and we'll wrap it up [01:03:56] from there. [01:03:58] >> Sure. Um, so I'm set up I've set up um [01:04:01] something different called Sovereign [01:04:02] Media, new media platform. [01:04:05] It's a media platform on its own right, [01:04:06] but it's also part of a coalition [01:04:10] um in which we're supporting other media [01:04:14] outlets and other media outlets are [01:04:15] supporting us. And the idea is that we [01:04:19] would form an anti-imperialist coalition [01:04:21] of media outlets so that when something [01:04:24] like what happened to Mint Press the [01:04:26] other day happens, when they try to [01:04:28] deplatform [01:04:30] uh sovereign media or an African stream, [01:04:33] we can we can unite and amplify and all [01:04:36] raise the banner and at least expose the [01:04:39] hypocrisy and demand that these Silicon [01:04:42] Valley [01:04:44] uh tech bros uh think twice. before they [01:04:47] go after one of us. So that's what I'm [01:04:48] working on at the moment. Uh you can [01:04:50] follow us on Sovereign Media on all [01:04:52] platforms. And you can also follow our [01:04:55] coalition partners which consist of [01:04:57] Venezuela analysis, Child Collective, [01:05:00] Black Agenda Report, Aminico Tribune, [01:05:03] and many more. [01:05:04] >> That's amazing. And just a reminder that [01:05:06] just because they shut down one like [01:05:07] platform, you know, we're not going [01:05:09] anywhere. You're not going anywhere. [01:05:10] Your voice is stronger than ever. It's [01:05:12] extremely important that uh people [01:05:14] follow the work that you do and we [01:05:16] really appreciate you being here Ahmed. [01:05:18] Thank you. [01:05:19] >> Thank you. Thank you.