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[00:00:00] What is your definition of socialism? [00:00:02] >> Well, in the theoretical, the abstract, [00:00:04] or the practical, [00:00:06] >> uh, take your pick. [00:00:07] >> So, socialism as written by Marks is [00:00:09] when the workers own the means of [00:00:10] production. [00:00:11] >> Exactly. [00:00:12] >> In the actual practical, it's when a [00:00:15] small group of very powerful, pernicious [00:00:18] people are able to control the rest of [00:00:20] the population under the guise of [00:00:22] helping the many, when in reality, it [00:00:24] helps the few. And you get dictatorship, [00:00:26] murder, and slaughter. And the [00:00:28] revolution never actually comes. Okay. [00:00:30] It ends in a hundred million people dead [00:00:32] over the last 100 years. [00:00:33] >> What about American companies that [00:00:35] function as worker cooperatives which [00:00:37] are effectively socialism in practice? [00:00:39] >> That that that that is partially the [00:00:41] some of the tenants of Marks. Of course [00:00:42] it is. Like Publix grocery stores in [00:00:44] Florida. [00:00:45] >> Okay. So you're in favor of worker [00:00:47] cooperatives then. [00:00:48] >> Yeah. If it's done voluntarily. That's [00:00:49] the key. Yeah. Exactly. Voluntary. For [00:00:51] example, in a church, if you go to a [00:00:53] church and everyone says, "We're going [00:00:54] to go share this meal." That's a [00:00:56] voluntary cooperation. But socialism is [00:00:58] not hinge on volunteerism. It's using a [00:01:01] gun. It's by force you must be part of [00:01:04] this. By force you must give us your [00:01:06] money. By force you're going to be part [00:01:08] of our cooperative. Volunteerism is [00:01:10] something we all support. It's when you [00:01:12] start to use the heavy hand of the state [00:01:14] that we start to object it. [00:01:16] >> I agree. I'm not here to defend Cuba, [00:01:19] China, the USSR or any of that [00:01:21] >> or Vietnam or [00:01:22] >> no [00:01:23] >> Laos or Cambodia. [00:01:24] >> So [00:01:25] >> or Rhdesia or Zimbabwe. So basically if [00:01:28] we can agree that voluntary [00:01:31] worker ownership of the means production [00:01:33] >> if they so choose [00:01:34] >> okay [00:01:35] >> it can work it also can fall apart [00:01:37] there's there's plenty of instances [00:01:38] where it does because the problem is [00:01:39] this is that the incentive structure [00:01:42] sometimes for innovation with voluntary [00:01:43] cooperatives is not always very strong [00:01:45] or robust but yes in a market you're [00:01:47] allowed for example I have no problem [00:01:49] with the Amish living the way they do in [00:01:51] Pennsylvania. [00:01:52] >> Neither do I. [00:01:52] >> Yes. However, I do have a problem saying [00:01:54] we're going to force you to live like [00:01:56] the Amish. That's where we disagree. [00:01:58] >> I I No, I agree with [00:01:59] >> Well, I'm saying but a where socialism [00:02:01] has played out over the last 100 years. [00:02:03] >> Yes. Some people have interpreted [00:02:04] socialism. [00:02:05] >> But so for you as a true socialist, you [00:02:08] should go get a bunch of your buddies [00:02:09] and friends, go out into the countryside [00:02:11] and go live as socialist, see how long [00:02:12] you last. Would you would you be in [00:02:16] favor of t tax cuts and loopholes to [00:02:20] people who want to start a worker [00:02:21] cooperative and exist as a worker [00:02:23] cooperative in a market? [00:02:24] >> I mean, I would give tax cuts for all [00:02:26] people. But if they want to do that [00:02:27] voluntarily in a market economy, knock [00:02:29] yourself out. [00:02:30] >> Okay. So, we've agreed. [00:02:33] >> I think so. But, but here's the point. [00:02:35] Question. Will you though as a socialist [00:02:37] go out and live your value system? Will [00:02:40] you go and, you know, say, "Hey, I'm not [00:02:42] going to own any stuff. 10 friends of I [00:02:44] are gonna go we're going to grow our own [00:02:45] >> there's a difference between personal [00:02:46] property and private property when it [00:02:48] comes to socialist theory [00:02:50] >> okay so but [00:02:51] >> personal property is things like your [00:02:53] toothbrush your clothes I would even go [00:02:55] so far as to say your house the [00:02:57] >> can I have two houses [00:02:59] >> it depends [00:03:01] >> it depends [00:03:02] >> it's a that's a that's a [00:03:03] >> so if I have a second house you might [00:03:04] take a very complicated question that I [00:03:07] necessarily don't really have an answer [00:03:08] for you [00:03:09] >> complicated if you earned it you get it [00:03:11] not complicated that's our view right [00:03:12] you get what you earn. And and the [00:03:15] problem with socialism is that it is [00:03:17] against my favorite word in the English [00:03:18] language, earn. We believe that you [00:03:20] should be able to receive what you earn. [00:03:22] >> I agree with you as a socialist. I think [00:03:23] you should be able to keep what you [00:03:25] earn. [00:03:26] >> Mark [00:03:28] Marx Marxist Markx's critique [00:03:31] >> was the hyperwealthy stealing the wages [00:03:34] of pe of hardworking people who are [00:03:37] trying to earn. Let me tell you what [00:03:38] Markx got right and then let me tell you [00:03:40] where I think he was wrong because I've [00:03:42] actually read and studied Markx. Markx [00:03:43] is correct that market forces can [00:03:45] alienate people from their humanity. [00:03:48] That he was very right about that. And [00:03:50] you walk into like your average [00:03:51] corporation sometimes like the most [00:03:53] soulless place you ever walk into. What [00:03:55] he was wrong about though was the state [00:03:57] of human nature that we believe humanity [00:04:00] we as conservatives and Christians were [00:04:02] generally not so good as human beings. [00:04:04] Markx believed humans were really good [00:04:06] and that we're being polluted and [00:04:07] contaminated by the societal forces [00:04:09] around us. Racism, misogyn misogyny, [00:04:13] capitalism, all these forces are c we [00:04:15] have to get we have to strip down all of [00:04:17] these external forces and we'll be able [00:04:19] to live as you know as in wonderful [00:04:21] harmony in the hills and [00:04:22] >> I would agree with that. [00:04:24] >> Okay. And so that's where we think [00:04:25] that's insane that human beings are [00:04:27] naturally good. Secondly, the idea [00:04:30] >> wait [00:04:31] Mark's saying that what he wasn't saying [00:04:33] that people are naturally good once you [00:04:35] remove all these things. The fact that [00:04:38] racism, sexism, all these other isms [00:04:40] exist is proof of the fact that humans [00:04:42] yes are do have a tendency towards evil [00:04:44] bad behavior. [00:04:45] >> That's not what Rouso believed. So, so [00:04:47] Rouso was the foundational baseline for [00:04:49] marks. Right. So, [00:04:51] >> yeah. Rouso. So Rouso was the one who [00:04:54] argued that it's human beings that are [00:04:56] naturally good and we don't have a [00:04:58] proclivity towards this stuff and what [00:05:00] we will agree is that there is a problem [00:05:03] with widespread alienation of human [00:05:05] beings and market forces. It's a big [00:05:06] problem. [00:05:08] >> Yeah. That and they are alienated by by [00:05:10] the by capital [00:05:12] >> not but not definitionally. Some people [00:05:13] find a lot of purpose in their work [00:05:14] though. That's where I disagree with [00:05:16] Markx is that some companies are able to [00:05:18] create robust environments where people [00:05:20] are happy and they're they're uh [00:05:22] connected. It's not it's not a fault of [00:05:24] the system. It's a fault of some [00:05:26] applications that happen in the system. [00:05:28] >> Okay. Then we just disagree on our [00:05:29] interpretations of Marx. [00:05:30] >> So I I I guess the the final question [00:05:32] though is you as a socialist can you [00:05:35] point to a single time where this theory [00:05:38] worked? [00:05:39] >> The Zapatistas in Mexico in 1991 when [00:05:41] NAFTA went into effect. How long did [00:05:43] that last? [00:05:44] >> To this very day, it is it is still a [00:05:47] region today. [00:05:49] >> And they don't own anything. [00:05:51] >> They collectively own their their [00:05:53] property. [00:05:55] >> Okay. I have to look at that example. I [00:05:56] mean, I would I would point to the [00:05:58] >> the Zapatistas. Rojava in Syria is an [00:06:01] autonomous zone that has existed [00:06:02] autonomously in spite of the Syrian [00:06:05] civil war that's that's have been going [00:06:07] on there. And again, I would point to [00:06:11] American and intern and other uh [00:06:14] businesses in other countries that [00:06:15] function as worker cooperatives. That's [00:06:17] socialism at work. Granted, they are in [00:06:19] a capitalist capitalist. They are in a [00:06:23] capitalist market. [00:06:24] >> How do you reconcile the Soviet Union, [00:06:27] Chinese Communist Party, Pulp Pot? How [00:06:31] do you reconcile the failures of [00:06:32] socialism last hundred years? [00:06:34] >> I just disagree with their [00:06:36] interpretation of socialism. I don't [00:06:37] think that you should wield [00:06:38] authoritarian power in order to uh force [00:06:42] people into socialism. [00:06:43] >> Here's what we believe and we'll close [00:06:44] on this. Every time it will be tried at [00:06:46] scale, a very bad person will assume [00:06:48] control under the guise of socialism and [00:06:51] become a permanent dictator. [00:06:52] >> I disagree with the at scale. I would [00:06:53] argue that our li systems are also [00:06:57] examples of socialism. You literally [00:06:58] come in I can literally walk into Haj's [00:07:02] library over here, check out a book for [00:07:03] free, and they trust me to come bring it [00:07:05] back. [00:07:06] >> It's not free. Someone paid for that [00:07:07] book. It's called the taxpayers, so it's [00:07:08] not free. The building has to be built. [00:07:10] Someone has to pay for the plumbing and [00:07:11] pay for the electricity, pay for the [00:07:13] heating. Someone has to pay for the [00:07:14] workers. Number two, if there is a [00:07:16] disagreement in the library and you [00:07:17] steal the book, what happens? [00:07:20] You don't check out in the right [00:07:21] process. You owe you have an overdue [00:07:23] fine. So, there's a cost to it. [00:07:25] >> You see, the library is actually a very [00:07:27] capitalist system because if you don't [00:07:28] rewind the old VHS, [00:07:30] >> librarians who say that over overdue [00:07:32] fines actually don't even work and they [00:07:34] don't even provide really good [00:07:35] incentive. Nevertheless, they still [00:07:36] exist. But the point if you would say [00:07:38] the library is a a a hallmark of [00:07:41] socialism, the librarian is still in [00:07:43] charge. I want to get to the next [00:07:44] question. Thank you very much. [00:07:45] Appreciate for your time. Thank you. [00:07:46] >> Um I'm a UVM student. I was uh talking [00:07:48] to you before. I'm sure you noticed [00:07:50] that. Um but I'm going to try to keep [00:07:52] this [00:07:52] >> heckling. Yes. [00:07:53] >> Yeah. Um but I'm just going to hope you [00:07:57] respond in a way that's not so just [00:07:59] conservative talking point and more of a [00:08:01] conversation way. Hopefully. [00:08:04] >> Maybe. Sure. [00:08:07] >> Okay. [laughter] [00:08:10] >> So, before there was a question about [00:08:12] like Native American communities and [00:08:14] treaties and stuff like that and you [00:08:16] were talking about how historically [00:08:18] Native Americans have been kind of like [00:08:20] screwed over by the US government and [00:08:22] stuff like that. Don't you think that [00:08:23] that history will impact how Native [00:08:26] Americans live today and make it more [00:08:28] difficult to succeed in America? Don't [00:08:30] you think that would influence that? [00:08:31] >> Well, I suppose a question I'll ask back [00:08:33] at you. We've made tremendous [00:08:35] accommodations such as sovereignty of [00:08:37] Native American land, entire department [00:08:39] of the federal government dedicated just [00:08:41] solely to that. Do you recognize that [00:08:44] there's been great efforts to try to [00:08:46] accommodate that? [00:08:47] >> I recognize those efforts, but obviously [00:08:49] they haven't worked because [00:08:51] >> So why haven't they worked? because it's [00:08:53] either not enough or the way that we're [00:08:54] doing it is incor like we need to treat [00:08:57] it more as an equity thing instead of [00:08:59] just saying oh it's a culture per like [00:09:01] instead of blaming it on people's like [00:09:03] individual working and like make like [00:09:06] change it society and help them in a way [00:09:09] that actually matters. [00:09:10] >> So you do know that there's universal [00:09:12] healthcare at Native American [00:09:13] reservations, right? [00:09:14] >> Yeah. But it's not very good because [00:09:16] they don't have access to [00:09:17] >> because it's socialistic. No, [applause] [00:09:23] they they have universal healthcare in [00:09:25] plenty of European countries and it [00:09:27] works just fine. The re the flaws with [00:09:29] the Native American [00:09:32] >> So I'm curious, how did Vermont's [00:09:34] experiment universal healthcare go? [00:09:37] >> I'm I'm not from Vermont, so I don't [00:09:40] know these things. [00:09:41] >> I didn't hear your response. Say that [00:09:42] again. [00:09:42] >> I'm not from Vermont, so I don't know [00:09:44] these things. I moved here like two [00:09:45] months ago. [00:09:45] >> Yeah. I still I still can't hear what [00:09:47] you said. Say it to you're wearing a [00:09:48] mask. It's kind of hard. Can you say [00:09:49] that again? [00:09:49] >> I moved here like two months ago. I'm [00:09:51] not from Vermont, so I don't know these [00:09:52] things. [00:09:52] >> Right. So Vermont tried singlepayer. [00:09:54] They had to abolish it. It was a total [00:09:55] disaster. So look, I think the best way [00:09:57] that to help Native American communities [00:09:59] is to help all people through [00:10:00] empowerment and education. Instead, we [00:10:02] tried a heavy-handed government approach [00:10:04] of intervention of the Bureau of Native [00:10:06] American Affairs of Universal [00:10:07] Healthcare. And if you want to go see a [00:10:09] socialist dystopia, go to a Native [00:10:11] American reservation. I I maybe you [00:10:13] have, maybe you worked on Native [00:10:14] American reservations before. I've been [00:10:16] to plenty. They're they're depressing. [00:10:17] They're government addicted [00:10:18] unfortunately in more ways than one. [00:10:20] They're very very corrupt. And this is [00:10:23] something I want to ask you. And would [00:10:24] you selfidentify as a socialist? Is that [00:10:26] fair to say? [00:10:27] >> Yeah. [00:10:28] >> Okay. Is [00:10:29] >> I'm not a liberal. I'm I'm more social. [00:10:32] Socialist and liberal are different [00:10:33] words. And I think conservatives confuse [00:10:34] that a lot. They are completely [00:10:35] different things. [00:10:36] >> Okay. [00:10:38] >> Okay. [00:10:39] >> No, we don't. So [00:10:41] I I'm I'm just curious as someone who [00:10:43] would say you're a socialist, what would [00:10:45] be a country you think works well that's [00:10:47] a socialist country? [00:10:48] >> There are no socialist countries right [00:10:50] now. [00:10:50] >> There are no so has [00:10:53] there ever been a socialist country [00:10:55] >> truly socialist? No. [00:10:56] >> Okay. So let me So you your view your [00:11:00] worldview is on something that's never [00:11:01] existed and currently doesn't exist. [00:11:05] Is it too is it a is it a bad thing to [00:11:08] be like pro-change? [00:11:11] >> Okay, so just just so we're clear. Um [00:11:13] yeah, the type of change you're [00:11:14] advocating is horrifying. Um but so it's [00:11:18] never existed doesn't. And so I would [00:11:21] say Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, [00:11:25] formerly Vietnam, the Soviet Union, [00:11:28] those were those are not and were not [00:11:29] socialist countries. those country the [00:11:32] disastrous effects in those countries [00:11:34] were directly contributed by US [00:11:36] intervention [laughter] [00:11:38] >> there was a there were multiple coups [00:11:40] done by the CIA in those countries [00:11:43] >> let let's take hold on guys hold on [00:11:45] let's take what let's just I'm just [00:11:47] curious and so how on earth did Fidel [00:11:52] Castro taking over Cuba have anything to [00:11:54] do with US intervention [00:11:55] >> there was plenty of like sanctions like [00:11:58] economically Cuba was completely cut off [00:12:00] there No, they tried to assassinate him [00:12:02] plenty of times. There were so many [00:12:04] things. [00:12:04] >> The fact that they're communist. [00:12:06] >> Yeah, [00:12:06] >> we had what to do with that? [00:12:09] >> We didn't have anything to do with that. [00:12:10] But we after they after a communist [00:12:12] regime took over, they had a [00:12:15] >> Yeah. So, let me ask you. So, so you're [00:12:18] So, first of all, Zimbabwe was not [00:12:19] communist. [00:12:20] >> Bkina Faso. Thomas Sankara. [00:12:23] >> Say that again. [00:12:24] >> Thomas Sankara. Bkina Faso. Before he [00:12:26] was assassinated, he was actually like [00:12:28] >> How about Mugab? He wasn't a communist. [00:12:31] >> How about Joseph Stalin? He wasn't a [00:12:32] communist. [00:12:33] >> How about Ma Ma Tong? He wasn't a [00:12:35] communist. [00:12:36] >> Yeah. [00:12:36] >> Paul Pot. [00:12:38] >> Plenty of terrible people have called [00:12:40] themselves plenty of different names. [00:12:42] North Korea. [00:12:42] >> Oh, so you get to be the judge. Got it. [00:12:44] Right. So, I just want to make sure we [00:12:46] complete the point. You believe in [00:12:48] something that doesn't exist, has never [00:12:49] existed, and even though the people that [00:12:51] call themselves the things that you [00:12:53] believe, you say they weren't really [00:12:54] that, which is the most important point. [00:12:56] Socialism is always judged against an [00:12:58] impossible utopia. And they judge [00:13:01] markets against a reality. And here's [00:13:03] the truth of the matter that markets, [00:13:05] which you enjoy comfortably in Western [00:13:07] society, is the most proven affluent [00:13:10] creating machine in human history. And I [00:13:12] would just challenge you to do one [00:13:13] thing. Please stop believing in a [00:13:15] utopian nightmare and start looking at [00:13:17] things around you that are good, that [00:13:19] are true, that are beautiful, that work, [00:13:21] and are consistent with the natural law. [00:13:23] you you'll be a much happier person if [00:13:25] you do that. [00:13:26] >> You said socialism is non-American. So, [00:13:28] what do you think is pro-American? [00:13:31] >> Well, let's define what socialism is, [00:13:32] right? Socialis socialism is the [00:13:34] government confiscation of private [00:13:35] property. Um, it tends to be the rule of [00:13:38] the few, not the many, even though they [00:13:40] profess to see to say it's the rule of [00:13:41] the many. Um but America the American [00:13:45] let's just say economic tradition is [00:13:48] private property rights markets with [00:13:50] proper restraint entrepreneurship the [00:13:52] ability to flourish trade um create new [00:13:55] products. Um socialism disincentivizes [00:13:58] almost all those things. Socialism is [00:14:00] built largely on envy and greed. And [00:14:02] hilariously the people that push for [00:14:03] socialism the rank and file they don't [00:14:05] realize that socialism actually just [00:14:07] creates an oligarchy. doesn't actually [00:14:08] create a strong middle class what they [00:14:10] alleged you know to want. [00:14:12] >> So do you believe in taxes? [00:14:13] >> Uh a certain actually ideally 10% across [00:14:16] the board. Yeah. [00:14:16] >> Okay. So you believe in the confiscation [00:14:18] of people's private property? [00:14:19] >> Not I mean at some point it depends on [00:14:21] if it's private property income or if [00:14:23] it's necessary to fund government [00:14:25] services. [00:14:25] >> That's still confiscation with a gun [00:14:27] through police if you don't [00:14:28] >> I fully acknowledge a moderate form of [00:14:30] something I hate in order to fund a [00:14:32] government police firefighters EMT is [00:14:34] necessary. [00:14:34] >> But that's still government confiscating [00:14:36] property which you said was socialism. [00:14:37] >> Yes. But have you ever called the cops? [00:14:38] >> Uh, no. I don't believe I don't I don't [00:14:40] like me. [00:14:41] >> Okay. You gone to hospital? [00:14:42] >> No. [00:14:43] >> Okay. Well, one day when you go to [00:14:44] hospital or you, you know, use a social [00:14:46] service. [00:14:46] >> I say you define socialism as a [00:14:48] confiscation of private property and [00:14:49] you're saying that you pay taxes, but is [00:14:51] a confiscation. Let me go further. Let [00:14:53] me go for the unreasonable confiscation [00:14:55] of private property, the elimination of [00:14:56] private property altogether. You see, [00:14:58] this is very sloppy intellectual [00:14:59] thinking that just because we want a [00:15:01] police force, a border patrol, and we [00:15:03] want clean streets, all of a sudden we [00:15:04] become a socialist. [00:15:05] >> But those are still socialist. Every [00:15:06] form of government is socialism. Would [00:15:08] you acknowledge that? [00:15:09] >> No, I don't. [00:15:10] >> Okay. Then [00:15:11] >> when does socialism begin and when does [00:15:12] it end? And I'm saying you're saying [00:15:13] you're saying some level it's not like [00:15:15] an entrance into [00:15:18] anti-American. I'm saying socialism is a [00:15:20] part of America. [00:15:21] >> So you want to know when socialism [00:15:22] begins and when it ends. When you leave [00:15:25] the free state of Florida [00:15:27] >> and you enter the unfree state of New [00:15:28] York. [00:15:28] >> What's the tax rate in Florida then? [00:15:30] >> Zero. [00:15:31] >> The income tax in Florida is zero. [00:15:34] >> But you still have to pay federal taxes. [00:15:35] So if you have to pay taxes at all, it [00:15:36] sounds like Florida's a socialist state. [00:15:38] >> But yeah, but so are you trying to say [00:15:39] America's currently socialist? Yes. [00:15:41] >> Okay, I would agree. We're going more in [00:15:43] that direction. So [00:15:43] >> Okay. But then wait, you just said that [00:15:45] America is socialist, but you said [00:15:46] Florida's not socialist. So for part of [00:15:48] America, that doesn't make sense. [00:15:49] >> Oh, but the federal project right now is [00:15:51] more socialist than it is free market. [00:15:53] So to make even more clear, the closer [00:15:55] you get towards the government owning a [00:15:57] majority of your labor and your goods, [00:15:58] the further and further closer you get [00:16:00] to socialism. California is that. Now, I [00:16:02] would love for the federal government to [00:16:03] get rid of FICA tax, to get rid of, you [00:16:06] know, the excess income tax. I've been [00:16:07] clear. I think 10% across the board, [00:16:09] fine. We need a military. You might not [00:16:10] agree. We need a police force. We need a [00:16:12] border patrol. We need basic social [00:16:14] services that are a safety net, not a [00:16:15] hammock, but I do not believe in this [00:16:18] over-the-top type taxation. If you want [00:16:20] to talk about other types of taxation [00:16:21] that everyone here is paying, it's [00:16:23] inflation. [00:16:23] >> What's your thoughts on universal [00:16:24] healthcare? [00:16:25] >> I'm against universal healthcare. Yeah. [00:16:27] Um, well, I mean, look at the many, many [00:16:30] trials in universal healthcare we have [00:16:32] in this country. Waiting lines, waiting [00:16:33] lists. Universal health care sounds [00:16:35] good, but it lowers the accessibility. [00:16:37] It increases weight lines. It increases [00:16:39] costs. Um, we're pro we're and by the [00:16:41] way, we're already close to a universal [00:16:42] healthcare system right now. Um, you can [00:16:44] just walk into an emergency room and you [00:16:45] will get care. It's not good care, but [00:16:47] you will get care. [00:16:48] >> And Medicaid is a form of universal [00:16:50] healthcare. [00:16:50] >> Okay. [00:16:51] >> Medicaid, which is healthcare for the [00:16:53] poor. Go ahead. Then what are your [00:16:54] thoughts on people who don't have a lot [00:16:55] of money who break their arm or have to [00:16:57] go to the hospital? Theos ambulance [00:16:59] costs a ton of money just to be sent to [00:17:01] the hospital one night in a bed is [00:17:03] insane amount of money. So what are your [00:17:05] thoughts on people? What are they going [00:17:06] to do? What do people like who are [00:17:07] underrepresented, don't have money, have [00:17:09] worked their asses off every single day [00:17:10] and yet they have to give up their [00:17:11] houses, give up loans just so they can [00:17:13] get basic necessities. Isn't that like [00:17:15] what universal healthcare is aimed to [00:17:17] like mitigate? [00:17:18] >> It is aimed right. It is a but it [00:17:19] doesn't mitigate. Here's my agreement [00:17:21] with the advocates universal healthcare. [00:17:23] If you go to a hospital, they'll never [00:17:25] give you a menu of prices. You have no [00:17:26] idea what anything costs. Do you agree? [00:17:28] There's no transparency. If you go to [00:17:30] Chipotle, they'll tell you how many [00:17:31] calories are in your burrito and exactly [00:17:33] how much thing cost. It is secrecy of [00:17:36] pricing. These private public [00:17:37] partnerships that raise prices endlessly [00:17:39] that have destroyed lives. Medical debt [00:17:41] is a huge problem in this country. Um [00:17:43] and so yeah, the the solution was not, [00:17:46] you know, trying to have people [00:17:48] compulsory have to take on health [00:17:50] insurance through universal healthcare. [00:17:51] It's a lot deeper and more sophisticated [00:17:53] than that. [00:17:53] >> Then can you make the argument again [00:17:55] that the reason that we have such bad [00:17:57] public healthare is because private [00:17:58] healthcare has such a stronghold on [00:18:00] society and American society. [00:18:01] >> Well, we part of American healthcare is [00:18:03] awful. Part of it is great. The problem [00:18:05] is mo most people can't access the great [00:18:07] parts. So what is great about American [00:18:09] healthcare? We have the most [00:18:10] innovations. We have the most [00:18:12] sophisticated s life- saving surgery. If [00:18:14] you have a heart attack right now and [00:18:16] you have to go, you know, go into the [00:18:17] cat room here locally, they'll probably [00:18:19] save your life, right? The standard of [00:18:21] care here. That's not the case, by the [00:18:23] way, in like Southeast and Asian [00:18:24] countries. Like, you might live, you [00:18:26] might not. Okay. The problem is cost and [00:18:28] accessibility. Um, and so the question [00:18:31] is, do you want to sacrifice the quality [00:18:32] of our care for accessibility? And if [00:18:35] the answer is yes, then be ready to wait [00:18:37] five and a half