📄 Extracted Text (25,685 words)
[00:00:00] Let me uh commend you in your tight rope
[00:00:02] walking skills. I I don't check into
[00:00:04] social media that much, but whenever I
[00:00:05] do, I'm like, Matt Walsh is an amazing
[00:00:07] man. [laughter]
[00:00:08] >> Glad you feel that way anyway.
[00:00:10] >> No, I mean I there's a lot The reason I
[00:00:13] want to talk to you is there's a lot
[00:00:14] that I admire about how you've handled
[00:00:16] this just as a man. Um leaving aside our
[00:00:21] opinions, which I I don't even know if
[00:00:22] they are probably different in some
[00:00:24] ways, same in other ways, but it's not
[00:00:26] even about that. I you know everybody
[00:00:29] involved personally or most of them
[00:00:31] involved in all these dramas on the
[00:00:33] right and I think the way that you've
[00:00:35] handled it is just so so impressive. Um
[00:00:38] so thank you for that. But but first
[00:00:40] like what is going on? There is a civil
[00:00:43] war probably not too strong on the right
[00:00:45] within the Trump coalition. What is it?
[00:00:48] [music]
[00:00:53] >> [music]
[00:01:08] >> Yeah, I mean this has been uh it's it's
[00:01:11] been a really awful I think I think for
[00:01:14] everybody and
[00:01:17] a a lot of this drama obviously goes
[00:01:19] back
[00:01:21] goes back a long way. But I think after
[00:01:23] Charlie was killed, it's created this
[00:01:26] kind of this vacuum and it's a it's a
[00:01:30] leadership vacuum because Charlie was uh
[00:01:33] was I think the the best leader we had
[00:01:36] on the right. And the the tragic reality
[00:01:39] is that a lot of the stuff that that we
[00:01:42] said right after he was killed turned
[00:01:45] out not to be true. stuff that even I
[00:01:47] said like, "Well, you you killed
[00:01:49] Charlie, but you made a you made a
[00:01:52] million more, right? You killed Char you
[00:01:54] killed one Charlie, but now we have a
[00:01:55] million more Charlies."
[00:01:58] And I think I think we said that because
[00:02:00] it it we wanted that to be true. And it
[00:02:02] kind of felt for for a brief amount of
[00:02:04] time it felt that way because it felt
[00:02:05] like everybody was sort of unified and
[00:02:08] we were coming together and you going to
[00:02:10] the memorial and everybody was there and
[00:02:13] uh and it felt like almost this revival
[00:02:15] even this religious revival and all
[00:02:17] these things but then I think quickly
[00:02:20] reality sets in and what we have
[00:02:23] realized and what we've seen is that you
[00:02:25] kill Charlie
[00:02:27] and now Charlie's gone. And when when
[00:02:29] you that's the thing when you kill
[00:02:31] someone they're they're gone at least in
[00:02:32] this life. And so we no we didn't go
[00:02:35] from one Charlie to a million Charlies.
[00:02:36] We went from one Charlie to zero
[00:02:38] Charlies. And that's just that's what
[00:02:40] happens with the that's why
[00:02:41] assassinations happen. That's why people
[00:02:43] do them because it works.
[00:02:45] >> Yeah. Because they work.
[00:02:47] >> And that's that's been the greatest
[00:02:48] tragedy about all this. I mean, aside
[00:02:50] from the human tragedy that an actual
[00:02:52] human being lost their lost his life and
[00:02:56] his wife doesn't have a husband, his
[00:02:58] kids don't have a father. I mean, that's
[00:03:00] that's the great tragedy, the human
[00:03:01] tragedy. But on a on a kind of national
[00:03:04] scale, the tragedy is that
[00:03:08] the the strategy of assassination has
[00:03:12] been proven effective again, as it has
[00:03:16] all throughout human history.
[00:03:18] And so now this guy who was this I think
[00:03:21] to an extent that none of us fully
[00:03:23] realized was the glue that was holding
[00:03:27] everything together on the right holding
[00:03:29] holding this whole crazy coalition
[00:03:31] together. It turns out it was like one
[00:03:33] guy who was doing this and his
[00:03:36] organization which which is is still
[00:03:39] around who I have a lot of respect for
[00:03:40] TPUSA.
[00:03:42] Um and I think they're doing the
[00:03:44] absolute best they can in the face of
[00:03:45] this. I mean, I have no I can't even
[00:03:47] imagine being in the spot that they're
[00:03:48] in.
[00:03:50] >> But
[00:03:51] he was the leader of organization. He
[00:03:52] was a leader of the conservative
[00:03:54] movement. He was the glue and and now
[00:03:56] he's gone and it it kind of feels like
[00:03:58] everything's coming undone to be honest
[00:03:59] with you. Um
[00:04:02] and there's this uh so there's all the
[00:04:04] there's all the fighting that go that's
[00:04:05] that's going on. And uh for me
[00:04:08] personally and and I I don't like to
[00:04:12] I I don't get into this because first of
[00:04:13] all I don't like talking about myself. I
[00:04:15] I like I like to talk about the things I
[00:04:16] that I think I talk about my ideas about
[00:04:18] things all the time,
[00:04:20] >> but I don't like talking about myself.
[00:04:22] >> Good. I like people who don't like
[00:04:23] talking about themselves. But with that
[00:04:24] said, I hope you'll talk about yourself.
[00:04:26] >> Well, and also I don't want to uh like
[00:04:28] I'm not the victim of any of this at
[00:04:30] all. Uh but I can only speak from my own
[00:04:33] experiences. And so my experience is
[00:04:36] that I'm a consider myself a personal
[00:04:40] friend of many of the people on either
[00:04:43] side of all of these various disputes,
[00:04:46] including a friend of yours. Um,
[00:04:50] and so that that's a that's a very
[00:04:53] complicated position to be in.
[00:04:55] [laughter]
[00:04:56] And then what what ends up what ends up
[00:04:57] happening is
[00:04:58] >> Yes. And there's so there's people on
[00:05:00] either side. It's really not even two
[00:05:02] sides. It's I don't know how many. It's
[00:05:03] a fractured to a million pieces it feels
[00:05:05] like. And so you've got the people on
[00:05:08] all the different sides of the different
[00:05:10] disputes who are shouting at me that
[00:05:13] well I need to denounce so and so. I
[00:05:15] need to disavow this person. I need to
[00:05:18] come out and say you know that I not not
[00:05:22] just I just that I disagree because it's
[00:05:23] one that we'd have disagreements
[00:05:25] but the pressure is beyond it. The
[00:05:27] pressure is no, don't just disagree, but
[00:05:29] disavow, denounce the condemn.
[00:05:33] And
[00:05:35] my answer has been, and not everybody
[00:05:36] respects it. You don't have to respect
[00:05:38] it,
[00:05:40] but
[00:05:43] my answer is no. I'm not going to do
[00:05:45] that. And I'm not going to denounce a
[00:05:48] friend.
[00:05:50] I'm not ever I'm not ever going to do
[00:05:52] it, like ever. Because to me, loyalty is
[00:05:57] a principle. Loyalty is a So when when
[00:05:59] people say, "Well, you need to stand on
[00:06:01] your principles and come out and say
[00:06:02] this or that." Well, loyalty is a
[00:06:05] principle in my mind, uh, it's one of
[00:06:08] the most important principles for any
[00:06:10] person, for for a man especially.
[00:06:12] And I think that, you know, people, if
[00:06:15] you're not if you're not in the middle
[00:06:16] of it and you're kind of on the outside,
[00:06:18] there are a lot of things that go on
[00:06:19] behind the scenes you don't know about.
[00:06:23] Um, and so when I say that somebody is a
[00:06:25] friend and I feel personal loyalty to
[00:06:27] them, that doesn't just mean that, oh, I
[00:06:29] kind of like that person. But for me
[00:06:31] anyway, what that means is this is
[00:06:33] someone who I know personally.
[00:06:34] >> Yes.
[00:06:35] >> Who I can call on the phone, who I can
[00:06:37] share a meal with. I've shared a meal
[00:06:38] with. And very often, this is someone
[00:06:42] who has had my back and supported me in
[00:06:46] ways that you might not see. not not in
[00:06:49] like a they've paid me off,
[00:06:51] >> but just in a friend way, like I I've
[00:06:53] got your back. I'm going to support you.
[00:06:55] I'll defend you. Hey, everyone's
[00:06:56] attacking you for this or that reason,
[00:06:58] and I got your back, right? Um and so
[00:07:01] there are a lot of people who've done
[00:07:02] that for me. And once you do that for
[00:07:06] me,
[00:07:08] then I feel like duty bound that I
[00:07:11] cannot turn around. I will not turn
[00:07:13] around and stab you in the back or
[00:07:16] condemn you. like you have my back, I'll
[00:07:18] have yours. That's that's that's the
[00:07:20] idea.
[00:07:20] >> Okay. That's the principle you said. You
[00:07:23] said it's more than an idea. It's more
[00:07:24] than an emotional response. It's a
[00:07:25] principle. And you said it's especially
[00:07:27] important for men. And I I just agree
[00:07:31] with you so strongly when you say that,
[00:07:33] but I haven't taken the time to think
[00:07:35] through why it's so important to me. Can
[00:07:39] you explain why that's a principle and
[00:07:40] why it's especially important for men?
[00:07:43] Well, I think it's about I think it's
[00:07:44] about in I think it's about integrity.
[00:07:48] Um, it's a it's a matter of personal
[00:07:52] integrity. It's also a matter of
[00:07:55] of of having a spine. I mean, if if if
[00:08:00] you denounce someone because especially
[00:08:03] again a friend
[00:08:05] because you've got a million people
[00:08:06] screaming in your face and telling you
[00:08:07] to do it, well, how can that possibly be
[00:08:10] a principled stand? you're doing it to
[00:08:11] get people to stop yelling at you,
[00:08:13] right?
[00:08:13] >> That's why you're doing it.
[00:08:15] >> Um and and actually if even if they're
[00:08:17] not your friend, if people are yelling
[00:08:18] at if you do anything cuz people are
[00:08:19] yelling at you to do it, then that
[00:08:20] that's that's the wrong it's the wrong
[00:08:22] reason to do something.
[00:08:23] >> Yes.
[00:08:23] >> It's the wrong reason even to do the
[00:08:24] right thing on really.
[00:08:26] >> But um with a with a friend, it's it's
[00:08:29] the wrong thing. There's also just this
[00:08:30] basic principle of um
[00:08:34] you know, doing to others as you would
[00:08:36] have them do unto you.
[00:08:37] >> And there's something uniquely repulsive
[00:08:39] about betrayal.
[00:08:41] And that's what that is. That's why
[00:08:43] Quizling got executed. That's why Judas
[00:08:46] is reviled. Betrayal. You know, someone
[00:08:49] that you're responsible for or are in a
[00:08:52] real relationship with and then you whip
[00:08:54] around and undercut the person. That's
[00:08:56] worse than like an invading army kind
[00:08:59] of. It feels that way to me.
[00:09:01] >> And I think I think that's right. That's
[00:09:03] something we all kind of instinctively
[00:09:04] understand.
[00:09:06] Uh which is why everyone has such a low
[00:09:08] opinion of traders.
[00:09:09] >> Yes. you know, uh, traders are are below
[00:09:12] >> exactly
[00:09:13] >> dirt in terms of of how we rank them.
[00:09:16] >> Now, disagreement on the other hand is
[00:09:19] not betrayal. And you can obviously
[00:09:21] disagree with someone who's a friend.
[00:09:24] Uh, and if you have a friend who demands
[00:09:26] that you never disagree with them, well,
[00:09:29] that's [snorts] not really a friend.
[00:09:30] >> No.
[00:09:30] >> And the relationship you have with them
[00:09:31] is one of it's not a friend
[00:09:33] relationship.
[00:09:34] >> It's a master slave relationship.
[00:09:35] >> It's master it's a subservient
[00:09:36] relationship.
[00:09:36] >> Exactly. And um and as men, we should
[00:09:39] not be in those kinds of relationships
[00:09:40] either. So you could certainly disagree
[00:09:42] with someone. Uh and so I'm not talking
[00:09:44] about that. And that's important because
[00:09:45] even what I'm saying right now, I know
[00:09:47] that Twitter's going to have fun with it
[00:09:48] and they're and they're going to say,
[00:09:49] "Oh, you're saying you can never
[00:09:51] disagree with a friend." Of course you
[00:09:52] can disagree with a friend. What I I'm
[00:09:54] not talking about that. I'm I'm talking
[00:09:55] about what I have personally
[00:09:57] experienced. Like if I look in my
[00:10:00] mentions or email or even people I talk
[00:10:03] to
[00:10:04] uh of saying denounce, condemn, disavow.
[00:10:07] Okay, that that is the that is very
[00:10:10] specifically that's what I've heard and
[00:10:13] uh that is the thing that I cannot ever
[00:10:16] do. And maybe I have a more
[00:10:20] extreme view of that than most people. I
[00:10:22] mean
[00:10:23] >> no you don't.
[00:10:24] have the most basic human view. Like
[00:10:26] what world are we in?
[00:10:27] >> Well, because someone someone asked me
[00:10:28] once, they said, we were talking about
[00:10:30] this and they said, uh,
[00:10:33] >> okay, what if someone you're really
[00:10:34] close with uh your brother? What if he
[00:10:39] murders someone? What if what if he
[00:10:40] becomes an axe murderer?
[00:10:43] Well, then you would disavow him and
[00:10:45] condemn him, wouldn't you?
[00:10:46] >> No, I'd get him a fake passport,
[00:10:48] >> right? Well, maybe is my brother.
[00:10:50] >> Yeah. I I if my brother was a serial
[00:10:53] killer and had 40 bodies in his
[00:10:55] basement, I would not get on camera and
[00:10:59] disavow or condemn him. I I would not do
[00:11:02] it. Now,
[00:11:03] >> now, who are you saying this to? Someone
[00:11:04] actually asked you that question.
[00:11:07] >> Yes. Uh to be clear, it was not my
[00:11:09] brother who was trying to make sure I
[00:11:10] wouldn't I wouldn't [laughter] say it
[00:11:11] wasn't that.
[00:11:12] >> Do you remember this line from the night
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[00:12:22] But just just like cuz their point is
[00:12:24] like, yeah, the point they're trying to
[00:12:26] make, I understand. The point is that
[00:12:28] yeah, you're loyal to people, but it's
[00:12:30] to a point and there's it could get to a
[00:12:31] point where it's so something happens
[00:12:32] that's so extreme or they've done
[00:12:33] something that's so extremely wrong that
[00:12:36] uh it it should it changes your
[00:12:37] calculation. And my point is that for me
[00:12:40] it doesn't um now that doesn't mean that
[00:12:42] so if my brother going back to my
[00:12:43] brother being a serial killer which by
[00:12:44] the way he's not just to be clear. Um
[00:12:47] but if he were I wouldn't defend it. I
[00:12:49] wouldn't get on camera and say actually
[00:12:50] it's okay to be a serial killer.
[00:12:52] >> And in that case I mean you you know I
[00:12:55] can understand the temptation to get him
[00:12:56] a passport get him out of town but I I
[00:12:58] would I would turn him in because I
[00:13:00] think that that's justice and also it's
[00:13:02] best for him and his soul that he uh
[00:13:04] that he faced
[00:13:05] >> he faced the consequence. But it
[00:13:07] wouldn't be easy to do. But even in the
[00:13:08] even in the midst of all that, uh I
[00:13:11] would not I would I wouldn't get up in
[00:13:12] public and say I condemn and disavow.
[00:13:14] It's got the way that I you know what
[00:13:17] happens on Twitter or on social media in
[00:13:19] general now
[00:13:21] when people are when they when they when
[00:13:23] when someone does something that upsets
[00:13:24] everyone. It's like the old it's like
[00:13:27] mid the mid ages where your your head is
[00:13:29] in the stocks right in the town square
[00:13:31] and everyone's coming back by and
[00:13:33] throwing tomatoes at you. Uh, and and I
[00:13:36] I've had my head in the stocks many
[00:13:37] times with the Twitter mob. I've been in
[00:13:39] that spot and probably in in times when
[00:13:41] I've deserved it because I've said
[00:13:42] something that really is just stupid and
[00:13:44] so everyone is just flinging crap at me
[00:13:46] and okay,
[00:13:47] >> been there. Uh, but my point is that if
[00:13:50] it's my friend who's got their head in
[00:13:51] the stock, even if they kind of deserve
[00:13:54] it because they said something stupid or
[00:13:55] they're doing something stupid,
[00:13:58] there's no scenario ever where I'm going
[00:14:00] to pick up a tomato and throw it at
[00:14:04] them. Uh, I'm not going to do that. Now,
[00:14:07] I might I might speak to them privately
[00:14:09] and say, "Hey, you know what? You kind
[00:14:10] of had this coming because like you
[00:14:14] know, you need to you need to get you
[00:14:15] need to get it together. you need to get
[00:14:16] it in line because what you did was
[00:14:18] wrong. I'll speak to someone privately
[00:14:20] and tell them that and I have done that.
[00:14:22] If I disagree with a friend and what
[00:14:24] they're doing, I will tell them that.
[00:14:26] >> Um, so that's the basic principle. But
[00:14:29] again, that's not that is all different
[00:14:31] from
[00:14:33] uh disagreement and saying I disagree
[00:14:35] with
[00:14:36] >> of course this is intuitively obvious I
[00:14:38] think to normal people. What I'm so
[00:14:40] struck by is how this doesn't just
[00:14:43] remind me of like medieval Europe. It
[00:14:45] reminds me of 2023.
[00:14:48] This is why Trump got elected. When we
[00:14:51] say woke or, you know, the the crazy
[00:14:54] left, this is exactly, at least speaking
[00:14:56] for myself, what I'm talking about.
[00:14:57] First of all, it's identity politics.
[00:14:58] It's censorship. The two things I hate
[00:15:00] in our country. But it's the same
[00:15:03] impulse to
[00:15:06] publicly denounce people, to destroy
[00:15:08] people. And and really what you're
[00:15:10] saying when you demand that is it's not
[00:15:13] just a a breach of loyalty. It's a
[00:15:15] transfer of loyalty. You're saying you
[00:15:17] need to be lo more loyal to me and my
[00:15:20] ideas or the mob than you are to your
[00:15:22] own friends. It's like demanding control
[00:15:25] of your loyalty. And my view has always
[00:15:27] been I'm an adult man. I'll decide who I
[00:15:29] like and who I don't. That that's up to
[00:15:32] me. You trying to strip me of my
[00:15:34] autonomy, of my humanity. Like no
[00:15:36] thanks. And that's why I got to the
[00:15:39] point where after many years of
[00:15:41] disagreeing with the left, I really
[00:15:42] hated the left because I find that so
[00:15:44] totalitarian
[00:15:46] and scary.
[00:15:49] I just can't even believe that less than
[00:15:51] a year later the right is doing the same
[00:15:53] thing. Like what is going on?
[00:15:56] >> Yeah. And that and going back to the the
[00:15:59] the great tragedy, the many tragedies
[00:16:02] that have grown from the the one great
[00:16:04] tragedy of Charlie's death. Um,
[00:16:07] it is it is that
[00:16:11] it is that we have like the left. I
[00:16:15] still believe I'm oldfashioned, so call
[00:16:16] me oldfashioned, but I I still believe
[00:16:19] that the left that leftism leftism as an
[00:16:23] ideology is the enemy. Um, it it is it
[00:16:27] is it is the it is the problem. It's the
[00:16:29] thing that we're fighting against. It's
[00:16:30] the thing that I've always fought
[00:16:31] against. It's why I'm it's why I'm doing
[00:16:33] any of this. This is the only reason I'm
[00:16:35] on camera right now. The only reason
[00:16:36] that I'm doing any of this, the only
[00:16:38] reason I got into this whatever it is
[00:16:40] that we're doing, whatever this business
[00:16:41] is, this uh this fight, um it's the
[00:16:45] reason I'm in it is to oppose leftism.
[00:16:48] >> What is how do you define leftism?
[00:16:50] >> Well, I I would define it
[00:16:55] modern leftism is first of all moral
[00:16:58] relativism. It's the idea that I have my
[00:17:00] own truth. you know, there is no there
[00:17:03] is no truth. There's no there's no
[00:17:05] truth. I have my own. Um, and so I think
[00:17:09] to me that's that's the core of the
[00:17:11] thing. And I think that if you're a
[00:17:13] relativist, then you are a leftist.
[00:17:15] Doesn't matter what else you believe.
[00:17:17] You could be you could be a relativist
[00:17:18] and be anti-immigration. You could be
[00:17:20] relativist and believe in gun rights.
[00:17:22] Uh, now I think most relativists don't
[00:17:24] end up there, but even if you did,
[00:17:26] you're still a leftist
[00:17:27] >> because you reject truth. Um, so that's
[00:17:31] what it is at at at it at its core. And
[00:17:35] also, uh, leftism, not really also, but
[00:17:39] as as an as a extension of that, it's an
[00:17:42] outgrowth of that. Uh,
[00:17:45] leftism
[00:17:48] opposes
[00:17:50] civilization and it opposes western
[00:17:52] civilization in particular and American
[00:17:56] identity most particularly of all. Uh,
[00:18:00] it opposes all of the institutions that
[00:18:04] our civilization depends on and is is
[00:18:06] grounded in like the institution of the
[00:18:08] family and the institution of marriage.
[00:18:12] Um, it rejects all of that. It rejects
[00:18:14] the fundamental truths that we depend
[00:18:17] on. It It rejects the fundamental
[00:18:19] reality, like the reality of, well, men
[00:18:21] aren't women. Um, and they're kind of I
[00:18:24] think a lot of leftists are trying to in
[00:18:25] a very really embarrassed kind of way
[00:18:27] back back away from that one. Uh,
[00:18:29] because we beat them on it. You know,
[00:18:31] it's the thing when when we as
[00:18:33] conservatives can actually put all this
[00:18:35] [ __ ] to the side and focus on
[00:18:38] something, we can win. And we beat the
[00:18:42] it's not it's not totally dead, but the
[00:18:44] trans agenda is on life support and we
[00:18:47] defeated it. We took it down. We beat
[00:18:49] it. We can do that. And it's a good
[00:18:50] thing that we did because that was and
[00:18:52] is wicked and evil and it's hurting
[00:18:54] people and killing people.
[00:18:55] >> Couldn't agree more. Um but they also
[00:18:58] they reject the reality of uh of of
[00:19:00] human life. The fact that that uh that
[00:19:03] that human life is um has inherent worth
[00:19:07] and dignity from the moments the moment
[00:19:09] of its existence from the moment of its
[00:19:12] conception that your life is not the
[00:19:14] value of your life is not contingent.
[00:19:18] That's that's another fundamental aspect
[00:19:19] of leftism. They believe that human life
[00:19:22] the value of human life is contingent.
[00:19:24] It's contingent for babies on whether or
[00:19:27] not their mother wants them. It's
[00:19:29] contingent on um how much of an
[00:19:33] inconvenience they cause to their
[00:19:35] parents. And if it turns out that their
[00:19:38] mom doesn't want them and their parents
[00:19:39] find them inconvenient, then they their
[00:19:40] life has no value. Their life is less
[00:19:43] than garbage and can and can be killed
[00:19:46] and thrown into a dumpster. And that's
[00:19:48] what is still happening in this country.
[00:19:50] You know, every single day that's still
[00:19:53] happening. Hundreds of thousands every
[00:19:55] year, hundreds of thousands of human
[00:19:59] children are poisoned,
[00:20:03] stabbed in the heart with poison
[00:20:04] needles,
[00:20:06] dismembered, decapitated,
[00:20:09] and thrown into medical waste dumpsters.
[00:20:11] They don't even get a burial because
[00:20:13] they are treated as less than or
[00:20:16] >> they recycled into vaccines. Oh yes,
[00:20:19] they are treated as less having less
[00:20:22] value than
[00:20:25] a dog. They they have less value than
[00:20:27] than an animal. I mean there are there
[00:20:29] are there are animals who are who are
[00:20:34] from conception federally protected like
[00:20:37] sea turtles and bald eagles
[00:20:40] and human children have less protection
[00:20:42] than that. So and I know you know all
[00:20:44] this. I'm preaching to the choir. My
[00:20:45] point is,
[00:20:46] >> but I love it can't be said too much,
[00:20:47] >> right? My point is that so that's
[00:20:49] happening.
[00:20:51] That is to me that's the enemy. That is
[00:20:54] what we're opposing.
[00:20:56] And
[00:20:58] if you're in favor of that, if you're if
[00:21:00] you're among the forces that are are
[00:21:02] pushing this, the destruction of the
[00:21:04] family, the destruction of of human life
[00:21:06] in the womb, the rejection of reality,
[00:21:09] of objective truth, uh of of national,
[00:21:12] of American identity, of Western
[00:21:13] civilization. If you're pushing that,
[00:21:15] then you're my enemy. You are my enemy.
[00:21:17] And I want to destroy your I want to
[00:21:20] destroy your ideology. I want to destroy
[00:21:22] everything you stand for. That's what I
[00:21:25] want to do. And if you're again, but if
[00:21:27] you're against them,
[00:21:29] and that is to say, you stand for
[00:21:31] American identity and for the sanctity
[00:21:33] of human life and the family and and
[00:21:36] objective truth and reality, [snorts]
[00:21:40] uh, the church faith. If you're if
[00:21:43] you're on that side, then I then I
[00:21:45] consider you to be basically an ally.
[00:21:47] And and and we could disagree vehemently
[00:21:50] on a lot of other issues. We could
[00:21:52] disagree on
[00:21:54] we could there could be a lot of
[00:21:55] disagreement if we agree that okay we
[00:21:57] need to preserve all what as
[00:21:58] conservatives what are we conserving
[00:21:59] well to me it's easy we're conserving
[00:22:01] western civilization we're conserving
[00:22:02] American identity we're conserving the
[00:22:03] sanctity of human life we're conserving
[00:22:05] the family we're conserving marriage
[00:22:07] that's what we're conserving and if you
[00:22:10] agree with me on that then we're on the
[00:22:12] same side as far as I'm concerned now we
[00:22:13] might have a lot of disagreements about
[00:22:15] how to conserve those things
[00:22:17] >> and those those disagreements might be
[00:22:20] even brutal and bitter at times. But
[00:22:25] is if that is the argument, then we're
[00:22:27] all on the same side arguing. If we're
[00:22:29] arguing about whether those things
[00:22:30] should be conserved, well then if you're
[00:22:33] on the other side of that argument, then
[00:22:35] we're not on the same side at all. We're
[00:22:36] we're on we're in two different
[00:22:37] universes. Like I don't even know what
[00:22:39] universe you're living in. And the and
[00:22:41] the divide, I think, ideologically in
[00:22:43] this country is so vast and so deep and
[00:22:46] so unbridgegable that it it that we may
[00:22:50] as well be living in different
[00:22:51] universes. We may as well be aliens from
[00:22:53] different galaxies trying to live on a
[00:22:55] planet together and it's just not
[00:22:56] working out. That's what it feels like.
[00:22:58] And so for me,
[00:23:00] that's where the fight is. That's where
[00:23:02] I want the fight to remain. hate to
[00:23:04] brag, but we're pretty confident this
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[00:24:32] >> Okay, first of all, that's like the
[00:24:34] greatest description I've heard in a
[00:24:36] long time. The clearest. Um, it was like
[00:24:38] music to me hearing that because I
[00:24:40] agreed with every single word so
[00:24:41] strongly. You didn't mention economics,
[00:24:42] I noticed, which is revealing.
[00:24:44] >> Um,
[00:24:44] >> I didn't. Yeah,
[00:24:46] >> I wouldn't. And I know you've got views
[00:24:47] on it. I certainly do. But um you
[00:24:49] mentioned what underlies the economic
[00:24:52] views which is like your view of other
[00:24:54] human beings.
[00:24:54] >> Yeah. Because I because I don't mean but
[00:24:56] no. Yeah. On So So that's I'm glad you
[00:24:58] brought that up because that's a really
[00:25:00] important point because
[00:25:02] >> uh I am when it comes to economics I'm
[00:25:05] pretty I hate to use the term I'm pretty
[00:25:08] libertarian when it comes to a lot of
[00:25:09] economic stuff. I would love to see I
[00:25:11] don't think there should be a welfare
[00:25:12] state at all. I we should I think we
[00:25:13] should abolish food stamps. I think we
[00:25:15] should abolish the income tax. Um, I I
[00:25:18] think the income tax is is evil. I think
[00:25:20] it's terrible. And so that's how I feel
[00:25:22] about it. Uh, however,
[00:25:26] as far as I'm concerned, you could be a
[00:25:27] conservative and have the exact
[00:25:29] opposite. You could be a conservative
[00:25:30] and say, you know what, I think we
[00:25:31] should raise the income tax. I think the
[00:25:33] welfare state is great. I think there
[00:25:34] should be more of it. I think we should
[00:25:35] give food stamps to more people. I think
[00:25:36] we should have universal basic income. I
[00:25:38] think all these things. You could have
[00:25:39] that view as a conservative. Now, I will
[00:25:41] vehemently disagree with you. I will
[00:25:43] argue with you and I will yell at you
[00:25:45] and you'll yell at me and that will be
[00:25:46] fine. But if if the reason why you want
[00:25:50] that, it comes down to why do you want
[00:25:52] that? Why do you think we should have a
[00:25:53] welfare state? If your reason is that
[00:25:55] well this is the way to support families
[00:25:57] and this is the way to make sure that we
[00:25:59] can have more families and people can
[00:26:00] have kids.
[00:26:01] >> Well, I think you're wrong. I think
[00:26:02] actually it destroys the family, but you
[00:26:05] want the same thing as I do and so we're
[00:26:08] on the same side. I just think that
[00:26:09] you're I think you're lost. I think
[00:26:11] you're trying to find the same
[00:26:12] destination, but you're you're off in
[00:26:13] the woods somewhere on the path, and I
[00:26:14] want to I want to I want to wave to you
[00:26:16] and say, "No, come back over here."
[00:26:17] >> But you're using the same alphabet. I
[00:26:19] mean, you're speaking in the same
[00:26:20] tongue, like you you have a common point
[00:26:22] of reference cuz you want the same
[00:26:24] outcome,
[00:26:25] >> which is on the left, the reason why
[00:26:27] they want a lot of that stuff,
[00:26:29] >> more control
[00:26:29] >> is is more control. And because they
[00:26:31] actually want to destroy the family,
[00:26:32] they they want to make the family
[00:26:34] irrelevant. They say, "Well, uh, you
[00:26:36] know, if we have a vast welfare state,
[00:26:38] everyone's got everyone's getting money,
[00:26:40] everyone's on the dole, then you don't
[00:26:43] really need the family and you don't
[00:26:44] need a father going to work and caring
[00:26:45] for his family." And so, and and so
[00:26:47] that's what that's what they're trying
[00:26:48] to get to. That's their reason for
[00:26:50] having that view.
[00:26:51] >> But who is they is the question. And as
[00:26:54] I heard you explain who you're fighting
[00:26:56] against and why, and I nodded along in
[00:26:59] agreement, I really was the choir to
[00:27:01] your sermon. I thought you're describing
[00:27:03] the people who defend the war in Gaza
[00:27:05] perfectly. Perfectly. They don't believe
[00:27:07] in absolute standards of truth at all.
[00:27:10] What what they're committing in Gaza is
[00:27:12] exactly what they decry correctly when
[00:27:15] it happens to other people. Can't kill
[00:27:17] innocents. They didn't do anything
[00:27:18] wrong. Not on purpose. You can period.
[00:27:20] You're not allowed to do that. But they
[00:27:22] defend it fully. So they don't believe
[00:27:24] in an absolute standard of behavior at
[00:27:26] all. They don't believe in truth. It's
[00:27:27] totally
[00:27:29] it's dependent upon circumstance. Like
[00:27:32] in fact, you even seen people say it out
[00:27:34] loud. You know, we we raised an entire
[00:27:37] generation correctly to believe that
[00:27:40] slaughtering people because of how they
[00:27:41] were born is the greatest sin, which it
[00:27:43] is. I believe that. And now we're being,
[00:27:47] you know, hoisted by our own standards.
[00:27:50] And my view is no. Standards are
[00:27:51] absolute. It's either true or it's not.
[00:27:54] And it's universally applicable or it's
[00:27:56] not a real thing. It's just group. It's
[00:27:59] identity politics. That's exactly what I
[00:28:01] hate. And identity politics is the kind
[00:28:04] of political expression of the worldview
[00:28:05] that you have just decrieded and and
[00:28:08] declared war against. And God bless you
[00:28:10] for doing that. But that is in full
[00:28:12] flower on the right. And I'm not going I
[00:28:14] don't want to dignify people by naming
[00:28:16] them, but people I know who call
[00:28:17] themselves like MAGA conservatives are
[00:28:19] defending the murder of innocents. And
[00:28:22] by the way, some of them suggest we just
[00:28:23] move the refugees into the United States
[00:28:25] because that's good for the country that
[00:28:27] they support. But is that good for us?
[00:28:30] That's an attack on American identity.
[00:28:32] You're also describing, by the way, in a
[00:28:34] lot of ways Nicholas Maduro of
[00:28:35] Venezuela, who we're all required to
[00:28:37] hate, and I'm not supporting him, of
[00:28:39] course, but this is like the the most
[00:28:41] socially conservative country in Latin
[00:28:42] America that has banned abortion, banned
[00:28:45] gay marriage, banned gender transitions,
[00:28:48] banned usery, banned, you know, loaning
[00:28:50] at crazy interest levels because it
[00:28:52] destroys people. I don't think he's done
[00:28:54] a good job running his country.
[00:28:55] Obviously, he hasn't. But to your point
[00:28:58] that like we should be open to talking
[00:29:02] to people who share our most basic
[00:29:03] values. How is he not on that list? Oh,
[00:29:06] shut up you communist, but I'm not a
[00:29:07] communist. I'm not going to be bullied
[00:29:09] by your dumb labels. Not yours, but I'm
[00:29:12] anticipating the many attacks. I have
[00:29:14] been attacked for saying that. But it's
[00:29:15] just it's true. So what's the answer? Do
[00:29:18] you see what I'm saying? So I guess I
[00:29:20] guess what's blowing my mind is that I
[00:29:23] thought I was speaking the same language
[00:29:25] as a lot of people that I disagreed with
[00:29:26] on on the margins like about you know
[00:29:28] what what's the best way to harness
[00:29:30] capitalism to help people. I mean these
[00:29:32] are real debates and then I realized
[00:29:34] with the war in Gaza that like these are
[00:29:36] people who don't believe in western
[00:29:38] civilization because western
[00:29:40] civilization can be boiled down to one
[00:29:41] concept and that's the individual. If
[00:29:45] something someone does something wrong
[00:29:46] we punish that person. and we don't kill
[00:29:48] his kids. Why do we do that? Why why is
[00:29:50] that our standard? Because we believe
[00:29:51] that God created every person as an
[00:29:53] individual and every person will stand
[00:29:55] before God alone to account for his
[00:29:56] life. He's not responsible for what his
[00:29:59] children do, what his ancestors did,
[00:30:00] what his forebears might do. He's
[00:30:03] responsible for himself because we
[00:30:04] believe in the individual soul, not the
[00:30:06] collective soul. And that's what makes
[00:30:08] our civilization unique in the history
[00:30:10] of the world. And it derives from
[00:30:12] Christianity, from the Christian belief
[00:30:14] of the individual soul. and I see all
[00:30:16] these people who like clearly don't
[00:30:17] believe that. So, how are we on the same
[00:30:19] side?
[00:30:20] >> Well, I think I mean, so this is where
[00:30:22] we uh we can be friends on the same side
[00:30:25] and disagree because
[00:30:28] uh yeah, I I wouldn't agree with
[00:30:30] everything you've just laid out there. I
[00:30:32] think that I think now last time we
[00:30:35] talked and we talked a little bit about
[00:30:36] Israel and my take at the time was I
[00:30:40] really don't care,
[00:30:41] >> right?
[00:30:42] >> I just don't care. I I honestly don't
[00:30:44] care. I want that take bad.
[00:30:46] >> I don't want to care. I don't want
[00:30:48] anything to do with this.
[00:30:49] >> And that's and that that's still my
[00:30:50] take. That's always been my take. It
[00:30:52] upsets people on both This is one
[00:30:53] legitimately on both sides of the Israel
[00:30:56] issue. People get mad at me for that
[00:30:58] because they say that, well, if they're
[00:31:00] very pro-Israel, they say, well, you're
[00:31:02] being a coward and you need to stand up
[00:31:03] and support Israel and talk about how
[00:31:05] Israel is our greatest, most important
[00:31:07] ally and all this stuff. And but then
[00:31:08] the other side very much, it's well, no,
[00:31:12] Israel is the great Satan. they're the
[00:31:13] most evil country in the world. They're
[00:31:15] responsible for everything bad that
[00:31:16] happens.
[00:31:17] >> And uh which is which is something that
[00:31:19] I think some people legitimately really
[00:31:20] do believe at some level.
[00:31:21] >> A lot of people believe that,
[00:31:23] >> right? And uh and so then they say to
[00:31:24] me, well uh you need to stand up and and
[00:31:27] say, you know, and say that. And again,
[00:31:29] my response to that is first of all,
[00:31:32] don't tell me what to say. Okay? I I
[00:31:35] have my own mind.
[00:31:36] >> Amen.
[00:31:36] >> So don't tell me what to say. I will say
[00:31:38] what I want to say. and and and I can
[00:31:41] only speak for my own opinion. This is
[00:31:43] my view. And I think and I we'll get
[00:31:46] back to it, but not to get sidetracked,
[00:31:48] this this is one thing, by the way,
[00:31:49] that's making political conversation in
[00:31:52] this country impossible is that all
[00:31:55] anyone ever does anymore is impugn the
[00:31:57] motives
[00:31:59] behind the argument that you're making.
[00:32:02] So, you make an argument and then
[00:32:04] everyone goes, "Well, you're only saying
[00:32:06] that because [laughter]
[00:32:08] >> and it's like, first of all, even if
[00:32:10] it's true that I'm making this argument
[00:32:12] for some dishonest reason." Well, is the
[00:32:14] argument right or not? Because if it's
[00:32:16] if the argument is right, the argument
[00:32:17] is still right, even if I'm the worst
[00:32:18] guy in the world saying it.
[00:32:19] >> But it's also like arguing with a woman.
[00:32:20] They tell you what you think. And it's
[00:32:22] like, "No, I'm actually telling you
[00:32:23] what." [laughter]
[00:32:24] >> And and why and and what?
[00:32:26] >> Right. And well, here here's why you're
[00:32:27] really saying that. Well, for me,
[00:32:29] >> the only person who can speak to your
[00:32:30] motives is you. Exactly.
[00:32:32] >> And so if I ask you, "Well, why are you
[00:32:33] saying that?" And you tell me, "I have
[00:32:35] no choice but to just accept that cuz I
[00:32:36] I'm not in your mind. You're the only
[00:32:38] author. You are the only authority of
[00:32:40] what is in your mind. You're the only
[00:32:41] one on the planet. The only other
[00:32:43] authority, the only greater authority is
[00:32:44] God. And I can't really ask him. So I
[00:32:47] can only go to you on that." And so
[00:32:49] >> you're describing my life, but yes, I
[00:32:51] agree with you. So, so for me on Israel
[00:32:54] when I say I don't care and everyone on
[00:32:56] both sides goes, "Well, you're saying
[00:32:58] that because
[00:32:58] >> No, I'm saying that because that's what
[00:33:01] I think.
[00:33:02] >> I'm saying and I always have." Which is
[00:33:04] why, by the way, you can go through my
[00:33:07] catalog. I've been
[00:33:09] >> blabbering my opinions publicly for a
[00:33:11] while now. And not as, you know, I
[00:33:14] haven't been in the business as long as
[00:33:15] you, but I've I've been, you know, at
[00:33:16] least 10 years on the record. And if you
[00:33:19] go through that before I worked at the
[00:33:21] Daily Wire, uh, and and while I was
[00:33:23] there, when I was independent, I was an
[00:33:25] independent blogger just like turnurning
[00:33:27] out content and you know, um, and you go
[00:33:30] through all that. And here's what you'll
[00:33:32] find.
[00:33:32] >> You'll find that I almost never ever
[00:33:35] talked about Israel. And when I did talk
[00:33:36] about it on the rare like once every
[00:33:39] five years if it came up, uh, my take
[00:33:42] was, I don't really care about this. I
[00:33:43] don't care about this country. It's not
[00:33:44] my country. Um, you know, if you're if
[00:33:48] you're in America, if you're an American
[00:33:49] politician, you should put care about
[00:33:50] America first. And and that's it. That's
[00:33:52] always been my take. So, that's always
[00:33:53] been my take.
[00:33:54] >> By the way, me too, believe it or not.
[00:33:55] Up until the last year, I I don't in 35
[00:33:58] years, I don't think I've talked about
[00:33:59] Israel 10 times. December's already
[00:34:01] here. Felt like it was just summer the
[00:34:02] other day. Your life is moving fast as
[00:34:04] always. There's a lot to keep track of
[00:34:05] between Christmas, family, giving
[00:34:08] presents, keeping up with your regular
[00:34:09] life. Times like these are when moments
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[00:35:14] >> So, so here's the point. It's not
[00:35:15] actually about Israel. It's about the
[00:35:17] components of the American right,
[00:35:19] [snorts]
[00:35:20] >> right?
[00:35:20] >> Um, who are defending
[00:35:23] mass murder, and I mean that murder,
[00:35:25] killing people who didn't do anything
[00:35:26] wrong, uh, in Gaza. That's it. It's not
[00:35:30] Israel. It's what about the parts of
[00:35:32] this coalition that as you noted Charlie
[00:35:34] really did keep together.
[00:35:36] >> Yeah.
[00:35:36] >> That are now fracturing. But one of the
[00:35:38] reasons they're fracturing is because
[00:35:39] they have different views, different
[00:35:41] world views. And that is obvious when
[00:35:44] you hear how they respond to the murder
[00:35:46] of like kids and women in Gaza. So it's
[00:35:49] Americans responding to that. Are you
[00:35:51] really conservative? How are you not the
[00:35:54] leftist that you just described if
[00:35:56] you're like, "Well, they're basically
[00:35:57] all Hamas, including the kids, that is
[00:36:01] collective punishment. That's blood
[00:36:03] guilt. That's the opposite of what you
[00:36:04] described. How can I be on the same side
[00:36:06] as someone with that attitude?"
[00:36:08] >> Well, well, here's here's what I would
[00:36:09] say. I think that if somebody is making
[00:36:12] the argument
[00:36:13] that
[00:36:15] uh we or Israel can kill pal as many
[00:36:19] Palestinians as they want, can kill
[00:36:21] children because their lives have no
[00:36:24] value uh because they're Palestinian. If
[00:36:27] you're making that argument, then that
[00:36:28] is a that is a that is a leftist
[00:36:31] argument.
[00:36:32] >> It's a leftist argument. However,
[00:36:34] however, however, I think that there are
[00:36:37] plenty of people who would defend and
[00:36:40] have defended Israel's actions in Gaza,
[00:36:43] uh, and even our involvement, which I
[00:36:45] don't agree with us being involved at
[00:36:46] all, but people have had that view.
[00:36:48] >> Uh, but not on that basis. What what
[00:36:51] they would say is, you know, they would
[00:36:53] say, "Oh, well, it's not true that we're
[00:36:54] that they're killing children. It's not
[00:36:56] or or um it's really tragic, but but
[00:36:59] it's it's it's uh you know it there's no
[00:37:02] other way to fight the war. It's it's
[00:37:03] not intentional. It's it's we're
[00:37:05] actually targeting the terrorists and
[00:37:06] this is uh this is uh these are
[00:37:09] casualties that happen like in any war.
[00:37:10] It's very bad. You try to minimize them,
[00:37:12] but it we don't we don't want that to
[00:37:13] happen. Um they could say, you know,
[00:37:17] many arguments along those lines. just
[00:37:19] it's also arguments that just kind of
[00:37:20] reject the premise. Like your premise is
[00:37:23] that they're doing mass murder of people
[00:37:25] in Gaza. I think that there are
[00:37:26] conservatives who would just reject that
[00:37:28] premise and say that's not actually
[00:37:29] happening.
[00:37:30] >> Okay. But if you just I think the
[00:37:32] undisputed fact there are tens of
[00:37:33] thousands 70,000 we can certainly say
[00:37:34] tens of thousands of women and children
[00:37:36] killed in Gaza. And so there are really
[00:37:38] two arguments you can make. One is that
[00:37:40] like that happens in war collateral
[00:37:42] damage which is true. It's 100% true
[00:37:45] that that always happens in war. It
[00:37:46] hasn't happened at this scale in 80
[00:37:48] years, but uh in the West, but it does
[00:37:52] happen. And the United States has done a
[00:37:54] lot of it. We dropped the atom bombs.
[00:37:55] Okay. So, like we're Israel is not the
[00:37:58] only country that's done this.
[00:38:00] But what
[00:38:02] are are you sad about it? Do you think
[00:38:05] it's bad? Would you be willing to say,
[00:38:06] "Holy [ __ ] I can't believe we killed
[00:38:08] 70,000 non-combatants."
[00:38:10] That's the acid test. Can you admit that
[00:38:13] that's horrible? It's horrible. It's a
[00:38:16] moral crime. It was a moral crime. We
[00:38:18] dropped the bomb on Hiroshima. And it's
[00:38:20] not even a close call in my view. It's
[00:38:23] not an endorsement of the Imperial
[00:38:24] Japanese government, but it's like
[00:38:25] that's just bad. If you can't say that,
[00:38:28] then you are endorsing collective
[00:38:30] punishment, aren't you?
[00:38:32] >> Well, I think it I think it goes back to
[00:38:36] what what what argument are you are you
[00:38:38] making? So go like using Hroshima for
[00:38:40] example and I I'll be honest I've kind
[00:38:43] of been on both sides of that. I think
[00:38:46] there's interesting arguments on both
[00:38:47] sides. Um
[00:38:50] I think an unten a morally untenable
[00:38:53] argument would be well yeah just kill as
[00:38:56] many as you need to. They don't matter.
[00:38:58] They were Japanese. They were the enemy.
[00:38:59] Just kill them. Like that's morally
[00:39:00] untenable obviously. Um, and based on
[00:39:04] that argument, well, then we could just
[00:39:05] nuke if you get into get into a war,
[00:39:07] just like nuke the entire country, kill
[00:39:09] everybody, and why not? And that
[00:39:11] obviously is um that that is rejecting
[00:39:14] the value of human life, which is not
[00:39:18] which is an unconsservative view. It's
[00:39:19] also just deeply immoral. But the other
[00:39:22] the other side of the argument for like
[00:39:23] the atom bomb, for example, would say,
[00:39:24] well, this was the best way to preserve
[00:39:26] human life that that that these were
[00:39:28] legitimate military targets. uh and the
[00:39:32] way to preserve human life ultimately
[00:39:33] was this way. If we had not done it,
[00:39:35] then millions more people would have
[00:39:36] died. Millions more Japanese would have
[00:39:37] died. And that's the argument. Now, like
[00:39:39] I said, I I I can see the argument for
[00:39:42] that. It now that runs into the charge
[00:39:45] of ends justify the means. It doesn't
[00:39:48] run into the charge. It's an expression
[00:39:49] of ends justify.
[00:39:50] >> Well, there's there's all Yeah, there's
[00:39:52] there's ends justify. I mean, it's like
[00:39:53] the perfect articulation of it's like if
[00:39:55] I could save millions by shooting your
[00:39:57] children, it's okay to shoot your
[00:39:59] children.
[00:39:59] >> But I think there's a like there's ends
[00:40:01] justify the means. Now we're getting
[00:40:02] into philosophical. I'm not a
[00:40:04] philosopher. There's justify the means.
[00:40:05] There's also kind of the principle of
[00:40:06] double effect, which is different. And
[00:40:08] double effect is well, so I understand
[00:40:10] it. You can do something that you know
[00:40:13] will have a negative effect, but your
[00:40:16] intentions are good. And and it's it's
[00:40:19] you're doing it in order to bring about
[00:40:20] a good result. Um,
[00:40:23] >> this was the argument that Hitler and
[00:40:24] Stalin made. If you take a look at
[00:40:26] Stalin's personal correspondence and
[00:40:29] diaries, which by the way are available,
[00:40:30] it was super interesting. He was an
[00:40:32] idealist. Like he really believed he was
[00:40:35] ushering in a new era of man. And like
[00:40:38] you had to kill a lot of Ukrainians to
[00:40:40] do that and Georgians and Russians by
[00:40:42] the way, a lot of Christians. You had to
[00:40:44] murder a lot of priests to get there.
[00:40:45] But by the end, you would have utopia.
[00:40:49] Hitler felt that It's like if we only
[00:40:50] get the Jews out, everything will be
[00:40:52] great.
[00:40:53] >> And so, but we are against them because
[00:40:56] we don't share that view. We believe in
[00:40:58] human life. Like it's not okay to kill
[00:41:00] an innocent person.
[00:41:00] >> Yeah. I think Yeah, that that argument
[00:41:03] Well, it's not Yeah, it's not okay to
[00:41:05] intentionally and deliberately kill an
[00:41:06] innocent person. Uh I think that,
[00:41:12] you know, in war, innocent people do
[00:41:14] die. I think that there can there are a
[00:41:17] lot of wars that have been unjust. There
[00:41:18] are there is such a thing as a just war.
[00:41:20] There's such thing as a necessary war.
[00:41:22] And if we can agree on that, then then
[00:41:23] we have to accept that in any war
[00:41:26] innocent people will die. It's terrible
[00:41:27] tragedy.
[00:41:28] >> Um so now but the argument that I was
[00:41:31] just uh playing out for dropping the
[00:41:35] atom bomb. It's true like that that can
[00:41:37] be terribly abused. My only point is,
[00:41:39] and I'm not even taking a position on
[00:41:40] that because I honest my my honest view
[00:41:43] is like I I kind of feel like I have I I
[00:41:46] I have an opinion of it and then I
[00:41:47] express it and someone comes and and
[00:41:49] they just eviscerate my argument on it
[00:41:51] and then I think, well, you might be
[00:41:53] right and then I hear. So, like that's
[00:41:54] kind of where
[00:41:55] >> super tough. I mean, I should just say I
[00:41:57] I hope I don't sound self-righteous.
[00:41:58] I've my views have changed. If you went
[00:42:00] through my corpus of opinions, it would
[00:42:02] be a Jackson Pollock painting. It would
[00:42:04] just be splashes of everything. So like
[00:42:06] my views are evolving in real time. I
[00:42:08] but I I've been forced to think about it
[00:42:11] because of what's happening in Gaza.
[00:42:12] It's like I don't feel like I have a
[00:42:14] choice.
[00:42:14] >> My only my my point about that is
[00:42:18] whatever is the correct view. Let's just
[00:42:20] accept for the sake of argument. I let
[00:42:22] I'll I'll take your view that dropping
[00:42:23] the atom bomb was morally wrong. Um I
[00:42:28] still think that somebody could be wrong
[00:42:30] about that but for the right reasons.
[00:42:33] And so they're still kind of on my side
[00:42:35] because the the wrong if if you're
[00:42:37] correct in your argument then the the
[00:42:39] wrong for the right reasons position is
[00:42:42] yeah we we we cherish human life. This
[00:42:46] was the best way ultimately to preserve
[00:42:48] human life. And again you can say well
[00:42:50] that's wrong but someone could have that
[00:42:52] view and the reason why they have it is
[00:42:55] because they truly believe in the
[00:42:57] sanctity of human life and they just
[00:42:58] honestly believe that that was the best
[00:43:00] way to preserve it. That was my opinion
[00:43:02] until recently as a lifelong adamant
[00:43:05] prolifer. So I ag I mean I want to give
[00:43:08] myself the benefit of the doubt. You
[00:43:10] know I'm not for dead kids.
[00:43:12] >> I guess what is really brought this to
[00:43:14] the four is a guy called Randy Fine
[00:43:16] who's a congressman from Florida who you
[00:43:18] know I disagree with on a lot. I don't
[00:43:21] think I disagree with him on anything
[00:43:22] actually. He spent his career in the
[00:43:24] gambling business exploiting people and
[00:43:26] now he got some kind of clever way to
[00:43:29] find a Senate a House seat in Florida.
[00:43:31] Everything about it I I disapprove of
[00:43:33] and of course I don't like his foreign
[00:43:34] policy views but there are a lot of
[00:43:36] people like that and I'm not mad at
[00:43:37] them. What makes him unusual is that he
[00:43:40] said out loud what I think a lot of
[00:43:42] people think which is like it's
[00:43:44] hilarious to see a picture of a dead
[00:43:46] child in Gaza. Somebody tweeted him, I
[00:43:48] know you're online, you've seen this, a
[00:43:50] picture of a dead baby in Gaza,
[00:43:53] and he laughed at it and said, someone
[00:43:56] said, "How can you sleep at night?" You
[00:43:57] know, getting self-righteous with him,
[00:43:58] okay, being high-handed like the
[00:44:00] anti-war left is. How can you sleep?
[00:44:03] But, okay, so I get it. They're
[00:44:05] annoying, but like it is like his
[00:44:08] response was, "Very well, thank you.
[00:44:09] Thanks for the pick." If that's your gut
[00:44:12] reaction to a picture of a dead baby, we
[00:44:13] are not on the same side in any way. On
[00:44:16] the deepest level, we're not on the same
[00:44:17] side. I'm a father. Like, I'm not. How
[00:44:19] can I laugh at that? I can't. And that
[00:44:22] to me revealed what I think a lot of
[00:44:23] people think who I know very well who
[00:44:26] call themselves conservatives, which is
[00:44:27] just like these are not human beings.
[00:44:29] Well, if you've got that attitude, how
[00:44:32] can you how can you really care about me
[00:44:34] or my country or my children? Like, I
[00:44:36] don't think you can. Yeah, I think that
[00:44:39] I certainly would agree with you on
[00:44:41] that. If you if you think that dead kids
[00:44:42] are funny, then we're not we're not just
[00:44:44] on not on the same side, but this goes
[00:44:46] back to I don't think we're living in
[00:44:47] the same universe.
[00:44:48] >> You're the leftists that you described.
[00:44:50] >> Yeah. Because you fundamentally cannot
[00:44:52] value human life if you could ever see
[00:44:53] it as funny that a child was
[00:44:55] >> I think
[00:44:56] >> uh so so for sure. And I think that
[00:44:58] there are people that we would call
[00:45:01] neocons that are definitely not
[00:45:04] conservative by any stretch. My only
[00:45:05] point to you is that I think there are
[00:45:08] plenty of people who are on the other
[00:45:09] side of the of the argument who are
[00:45:12] conservative and and they just don't
[00:45:14] they don't agree with the premise that
[00:45:16] you're laying out. They don't and
[00:45:19] they do want to preserve human life.
[00:45:21] They think this is the way to do it. Uh
[00:45:23] they they could be wrong, but it people
[00:45:26] can be wrong about
[00:45:26] >> well they haven't thought about it or
[00:45:28] the partisan system. I'll speak for
[00:45:29] myself. I didn't think about it at all.
[00:45:32] And all the people getting mad about
[00:45:33] Hiroshima hated America. It was just a
[00:45:35] fact. And they wanted to say that all
[00:45:37] American military
[00:45:40] uh expeditions were immoral because
[00:45:42] America was fundamentally immoral.
[00:45:43] That's the point they were making. They
[00:45:45] wanted us to hate ourselves. They taught
[00:45:46] us a history that convinced our kids to
[00:45:48] hate themselves and to hate their own
[00:45:49] country.
[00:45:50] >> And that's all evil. And we're watching
[00:45:52] the results of it now. So I was like,
[00:45:54] man, there's no way I'm on their side.
[00:45:56] Like they hate everything that I love,
[00:45:58] including my nation.
[00:46:00] So, I just was like, if you're for it,
[00:46:02] I'm not for it. And because I'm a child
[00:46:06] that way, like I just react against
[00:46:07] things. But now I'm feeling like I got
[00:46:11] misled into supporting an awful lot of
[00:46:13] violence. Like a lot of violence. And
[00:46:16] how how is that good?
[00:46:18] >> Yeah. I think
[00:46:20] >> well, so there's two things. First of
[00:46:21] all, there's a maybe there's a whole
[00:46:22] other category we should be talking
[00:46:24] about because we're talking about oh,
[00:46:25] left, right, conservative, liberal. Uh
[00:46:28] then you have you also have though
[00:46:30] politicians who uh often not always but
[00:46:34] often are neither and they don't have
[00:46:38] they don't have an ideology
[00:46:39] >> for sure
[00:46:40] >> and their ideology is control and power
[00:46:43] and uh and that's what they care about.
[00:46:44] >> What percentage would you say fall into
[00:46:46] that category?
[00:46:46] >> Um
[00:46:49] 95%.
[00:46:50] >> It feels that way, doesn't it?
[00:46:51] >> I I would I'll amend that. I think it's
[00:46:53] it used to be 95% I want control and
[00:46:55] power. I think now it's more like, this
[00:46:57] is even worse, now it's like 70% want
[00:47:01] control and power and then you've got
[00:47:02] another 20%
[00:47:04] who they're just there because they want
[00:47:06] attention like the Jasmine Crockett,
[00:47:08] >> right?
[00:47:08] >> Uh they're just there because they want
[00:47:10] to be influencers. Like Jasmine
[00:47:12] Crockett,
[00:47:13] >> I'm so grateful for her. She amuses me
[00:47:16] every day.
[00:47:16] >> But if you were to go to Jasmine
[00:47:17] Crockett and say, "Okay, here's two
[00:47:19] buttons. Press one button and you're the
[00:47:21] president of the United States. press
[00:47:22] the other button and you have 50 million
[00:47:24] Instagram followers and [laughter]
[00:47:26] you're an Instagram. She is p pressing
[00:47:28] the Instagram button%
[00:47:30] >> but that but it's a it's that's a
[00:47:32] different like species of politician
[00:47:33] we've never really seen before. No, it's
[00:47:35] so true
[00:47:35] >> because up to this point
[00:47:37] >> every single politician like I can be
[00:47:39] president I I'll take that over you know
[00:47:41] if it's like I I'll press this button
[00:47:43] you can be president but as a
[00:47:45] consequence your whole family dies.
[00:47:46] They're pressing the button.
[00:47:47] >> Oh yeah. a lot of these people and now
[00:47:49] it's it's a little bit there's there are
[00:47:51] people who who they're politicians
[00:47:52] they're not even really hungry for power
[00:47:53] they just want attention which I think
[00:47:54] in some ways is somehow even worse but
[00:47:56] anyway the the the just want power
[00:47:58] category I think that does describe a
[00:48:01] lot of the people we would call like
[00:48:02] neocons Lindsey Graham
[00:48:04] >> is for sure in this category you know L
[00:48:07] I don't know where it was he gave a
[00:48:09] speech recently he was talking about uh
[00:48:12] I think it was him bragging about how we
[00:48:13] ran out of bombs or something like that
[00:48:15] I think I have the right person here
[00:48:16] yeah Um and and so it's like, okay,
[00:48:20] well, you obviously do not take human
[00:48:22] life seriously if you just think it's
[00:48:24] it's like you just want to run out of
[00:48:25] the bombs. And um and and for someone
[00:48:29] like him, this is not someone who's a
[00:48:30] conservative at all. He he doesn't but
[00:48:32] it's not for someone like him, he
[00:48:33] doesn't
[00:48:34] >> I don't think that he's um
[00:48:38] passionately in favor of like abortion
[00:48:41] or destroying the family. He just
[00:48:43] doesn't care.
[00:48:43] >> It doesn't matter,
[00:48:44] >> right? It doesn't doesn't matter to him.
[00:48:46] So, um, so I think that's that's the
[00:48:48] other category that exists. And
[00:48:50] >> that's really that's really smart.
[00:48:52] That's really smart. It's like post
[00:48:54] ideological. It's even kind of post
[00:48:56] power. It's just pure narcissism.
[00:48:58] >> Yeah. Although I in in if I could I'm
[00:49:01] actually glad you brought up because I
[00:49:02] wanted to talk to you about this. uh in
[00:49:05] in defense of violence if I if I could
[00:49:08] uh I I cuz I've heard you talk about
[00:49:11] about this and
[00:49:13] >> and my views are by the way changing
[00:49:15] even during this conversation like this
[00:49:16] is all new to me so I don't
[00:49:18] >> so because I I'm actually
[00:49:21] I think in some ways we should have a
[00:49:23] lot more violence in society. I'm I'm
[00:49:25] sort of proviolence
[00:49:27] >> in a in a certain context. Um, I think
[00:49:31] that violence
[00:49:33] can be a necessary tool for justice.
[00:49:36] Like I just believe that. Um, now it can
[00:49:39] be really misused and it very often is
[00:49:43] and I think it very often is these days,
[00:49:46] but it is a necessary tool for justice.
[00:49:49] And so what I'm really mostly talking
[00:49:50] about are
[00:49:52] evil people who've committed terrible
[00:49:54] crimes against the innocent. And I think
[00:49:57] that through a legal means, I'm talking
[00:49:59] about, you know, I'm talking about, you
[00:50:01] know,
[00:50:02] >> extrajudicial lynchings or anything,
[00:50:03] >> right? Right. I'm talking about legal
[00:50:05] means for those kinds of people, we
[00:50:08] should be using violence a lot more
[00:50:11] because I think that it's just I just
[00:50:12] think that it's justice. I What is
[00:50:14] justice? Justice is
[00:50:17] uh giving to someone what they're owed.
[00:50:19] You know, giving giving to anything what
[00:50:22] putting things in their right place
[00:50:23] basically, I would say, is is justice.
[00:50:26] So giving someone what they're owed is
[00:50:28] justice. So if you owe me $5,
[00:50:30] it's justice that you give me $5. That's
[00:50:32] a matter of justice. And if you give me
[00:50:34] $3 and you owe me five, that's an
[00:50:35] injustice that has occurred.
[00:50:38] Now, if I
[00:50:40] slap your wife in front of you, I'm owed
[00:50:44] something else. I'm not owed $5, but I
[00:50:46] am owed something now. Like there it is
[00:50:49] right that I receive something. And that
[00:50:51] I would say is a slap, right? It's you
[00:50:53] slap my wife, I'll punch you 10 times in
[00:50:55] the face. instead. Like that's that is a
[00:50:57] just response. That is justice. And uh
[00:51:00] and I think what we have these days, you
[00:51:02] got a lot of people walking around doing
[00:51:04] this, assault, like literally assaulting
[00:51:05] women, you know,
[00:51:07] >> and [snorts] they don't receive what
[00:51:09] they're owed. And what they're owed is
[00:51:11] is uh is harsh and I think sometimes
[00:51:14] violent
[00:51:16] but just punishment. Um and so that's
[00:51:19] that's my one kind of caveat.
[00:51:21] >> You know, it's hard to disagree with
[00:51:22] that. Um, it's I mean, of course,
[00:51:26] viscerally I agree with you and all of
[00:51:29] this is just aimed at whites obviously
[00:51:31] because what you're talking about is a
[00:51:32] racial dynamic where non-whites who
[00:51:35] commit crimes just aren't punished as
[00:51:36] harshly as whites who commit crimes. So,
[00:51:38] it's a it's a racial double standard
[00:51:40] designed to like destroy the country,
[00:51:41] which it's doing.
[00:51:43] And and I feel that every person feels
[00:51:45] that like the need for justice and
[00:51:47] sometimes that is that expression is
[00:51:49] physical. How do you balance that
[00:51:51] against like the sermon on the mount
[00:51:53] which I happen to have read this morning
[00:51:55] um where Jesus is like well the the law
[00:51:57] is eye for an eye tooth for a tooth but
[00:51:59] I tell you you know turn the other cheek
[00:52:01] and you know takes your shirt give him
[00:52:04] your cloak
[00:52:05] >> I'll tell you because I've thought a lot
[00:52:06] about this I mean obvious hope hopefully
[00:52:07] all Christians have thought thought
[00:52:08] about the sermon on the mount a lot it's
[00:52:10] only the most important public address
[00:52:12] >> mindblowing when whenever people are
[00:52:14] like oh Jesus was a great person great
[00:52:17] teacher you read that and you're like
[00:52:19] either he was God or this whole thing is
[00:52:20] insane because this is not it's not
[00:52:23] intuitive wisdom in the sermon on the
[00:52:25] mount. Yeah, that that's the CS Lewis
[00:52:27] that you know trilemma lun lunatic liar
[00:52:30] or lord
[00:52:31] >> you know those are the op only options
[00:52:33] but um anyway so yeah of course I as all
[00:52:35] Christians should I've thought a lot
[00:52:36] about this and how do you uh because I
[00:52:39] also recognize in myself I'm talking
[00:52:40] about how violence can be just just and
[00:52:42] I really believe that but I also I have
[00:52:44] a a vengeful streak in me I fully
[00:52:46] recognize that
[00:52:47] >> yeah me too
[00:52:48] >> and when I see evil people I act I
[00:52:51] actually do sometimes hate them and hate
[00:52:54] means like I I don't just want justice
[00:52:55] for you. I want you to suffer. Yes.
[00:52:57] >> And uh I want you to burn in hell. And
[00:53:00] that and as Christians, we should never
[00:53:02] want that. We should never we should
[00:53:03] never want anyone to be damned.
[00:53:06] >> And sometimes I I I find that feeling in
[00:53:08] myself. I pray about it. I just have to
[00:53:10] be honest that I do feel that way about
[00:53:12] really bad people. Um but how do you how
[00:53:14] do you square this? I think that so turn
[00:53:16] the other cheek. I think it's very
[00:53:20] important to notice that Jesus is saying
[00:53:23] if someone slaps you, turn the other
[00:53:26] cheek.
[00:53:27] >> Yeah.
[00:53:27] >> What he does not say is if someone slaps
[00:53:30] your wife or someone slaps your child or
[00:53:32] someone slaps an innocent woman on the
[00:53:34] subway, turn the other cheek. Because
[00:53:37] turning the other cheek in that
[00:53:38] situation is not you being the bigger
[00:53:39] man. It's you being a coward. And so I
[00:53:43] that's how I square it. And that's how I
[00:53:45] can also square Jesus having these kinds
[00:53:47] of you know quote unquote anti- you know
[00:53:50] violence um statements that they made
[00:53:54] with also um famously he goes into the
[00:53:59] temple and fashions a whip. I mean
[00:54:02] that's what the that's what the
[00:54:03] scripture says. It's not even like he
[00:54:04] grabbed one. This was a premeditated.
[00:54:07] This [laughter] is this was premeditated
[00:54:09] first degree like uh and so he fashions
[00:54:12] a whip and he starts beating these
[00:54:15] people to get them out of the out of out
[00:54:16] of the temple. And that is violent. I
[00:54:18] mean, think about it's easy to read
[00:54:19] these stories and and you just read it
[00:54:21] as a story we've heard a million times.
[00:54:22] Heard it in Sunday school as a child. It
[00:54:24] gets kind of sanitized. Well, imagine
[00:54:26] actually seeing this happen. I mean,
[00:54:28] imagine actually seeing it in real life
[00:54:30] that that you're there and somebody has
[00:54:32] a whip and they are throwing down
[00:54:35] tables, beating people with whips. I
[00:54:37] mean, there's going to be blood. It's
[00:54:38] going to be a very brutal scene
[00:54:40] >> in the temple of all places
[00:54:41] >> in the temple. And yet, this was Jesus
[00:54:44] Christ who did it. This was our Lord and
[00:54:47] Savior who did this act. And so, it was
[00:54:52] and had to be a moral act. And so what
[00:54:54] that tells us is that you know violence
[00:54:57] is sometimes necessary. Now the the
[00:55:00] rejoiner to that is well that was you
[00:55:03] know God made flesh who used violence
[00:55:06] and that doesn't mean that you can do it
[00:55:08] >> right.
[00:55:08] >> And um well there's also a theme that
[00:55:10] runs throughout the New Testament where
[00:55:13] Jesus and his disciple Paul uh draw a
[00:55:18] very clean distinction between you as a
[00:55:20] Christian and the state. So the state is
[00:55:23] held to a different the state operates
[00:55:25] on by a different code.
[00:55:27] >> Yeah.
[00:55:28] >> Right. Render under God with what's
[00:55:29] gods. Ren under Caesar with Caesars.
[00:55:31] >> I don't know. I I I'm the opposite of a
[00:55:34] theologian. I really I really don't know
[00:55:36] >> what what happens when the state and
[00:55:38] we're experiencing this right now
[00:55:40] because I I I think that is kind of the
[00:55:41] answer. The state uh the state has
[00:55:44] authority from God. Now it doesn't like
[00:55:47] that's it's hard sometimes especially
[00:55:48] for conservatives to accept that but
[00:55:51] that's scriptural. The state has
[00:55:52] authority from God. Um, now it can
[00:55:57] reject its mandate. It can do things
[00:55:59] that are evil obviously and it can do
[00:56:02] things that we should reject and in some
[00:56:04] cases even rebel against in the most
[00:56:06] extreme cases. Um, so we know all that
[00:56:08] is true. But um but the state as like an
[00:56:12] institution generally speaking has
[00:56:14] authority. This is this is God ordained.
[00:56:16] This is what God wants. He doesn't want
[00:56:17] us all to live as he doesn't want
[00:56:19] anarchy, you know, where there's no
[00:56:21] there's no one in charge. But um so the
[00:56:25] the state has that authority. What
[00:56:27] happens when the state refuses to
[00:56:29] exercise that authority,
[00:56:31] >> right?
[00:56:32] >> And uh and what happens when it refuses
[00:56:36] to enact justice and it refuses to
[00:56:39] protect the innocent? What happens then?
[00:56:41] >> Well, you you overthrow the state.
[00:56:43] >> Yeah. At at what point at what point
[00:56:46] morally
[00:56:48] can the average citizen say, "Well, the
[00:56:50] state is not doing this and so I have no
[00:56:53] choice but to do it." If if I don't do
[00:56:55] it, then it won't be done. And I think
[00:56:57] we're getting perilously close to a
[00:56:58] point where people in mass start saying
[00:57:00] that. They start saying, "The state is
[00:57:02] not doing this. They are not defending
[00:57:04] my family. They are not defending my
[00:57:05] community. My community is unlivable.
[00:57:08] these these these violent psychopaths
[00:57:10] who've been arrested 40 times are
[00:57:12] running through the street assaulting
[00:57:14] women assaulting children and I cannot
[00:57:16] live this way anymore and I won't live
[00:57:18] this way and I think we're getting
[00:57:19] perilously close to a point where in
[00:57:20] mass people start saying that and when
[00:57:22] they start
[00:57:22] >> perilously or blessedly close
[00:57:24] >> well perilously because that's not I
[00:57:26] would prefer that's not the best option
[00:57:28] the best option is the state does its
[00:57:30] job
[00:57:31] >> when when when
[00:57:33] the other option is ultimately chaos I
[00:57:35] mean that's where it leads And um but
[00:57:39] that's where we are. I think right now
[00:57:41] you have uh like the best version of
[00:57:44] that
[00:57:45] are people who are have benevolent
[00:57:48] intentions and know what they're doing
[00:57:51] and are good decent people and they step
[00:57:54] up in an extreme situation because
[00:57:56] nobody else will and they do the thing
[00:57:57] that the state won't do but they don't
[00:57:59] go overboard and they don't become you
[00:58:01] know Batman. Uh and and so like Daniel
[00:58:04] Penny for example, I mean Daniel Penny
[00:58:05] is an example of someone who said,
[00:58:07] "Okay, I got to step in. I got to do the
[00:58:09] right thing. This guy should not be out
[00:58:11] here. He should not be allowed on this
[00:58:12] subway. There should be some kind of cop
[00:58:14] here to arrest him. No one is doing it.
[00:58:16] I'm going to step up." And and I'm and
[00:58:19] I'm glad that he did. He was right to do
[00:58:20] it. And um so that's the that's the best
[00:58:24] version. That's the the best version of
[00:58:25] of people stepping in where the state
[00:58:27] has failed is
[00:58:28] >> did he get a Presidential Medal of
[00:58:29] Freedom? What happened to Daniel Penny?
[00:58:30] Well, that's a that's a very good good
[00:58:33] question. Well, he was they tried to
[00:58:34] throw him in prison.
[00:58:35] >> No, I know it's a rhetorical question,
[00:58:37] but it's like if you see heroism like
[00:58:39] that and it goes unrewarded, in fact, if
[00:58:41] it's punished, then then you have a
[00:58:44] total inversion of justice
[00:58:47] >> and then and then and
[00:58:48] >> so how was the state legitimate at that
[00:58:49] point,
[00:58:50] >> right? And by design when people like
[00:58:51] that become punish or punished as they I
[00:58:53] mean they they tried to put him in
[00:58:54] prison they thank God we're not
[00:58:56] successful but they you know they try to
[00:58:59] destroy his life
[00:59:01] everybody else looks at that and I think
[00:59:04] by design it has this demoralizing
[00:59:05] effect because everybody else looks at
[00:59:06] that and they say well I don't want that
[00:59:08] to happen and and now I think I mean I
[00:59:10] don't ride the subway because I I value
[00:59:12] my my life but uh if I were on the
[00:59:14] subway and I saw something like that
[00:59:16] happening I'd be thinking to myself I
[00:59:18] hope I would step And but I'd also be
[00:59:20] thinking, well, I got a family at home.
[00:59:22] I got a wife and if I step in and I go
[00:59:25] to prison
[00:59:26] and so so now I can't be there for my
[00:59:29] wife and children. And so is it right
[00:59:31] for me to step up and protect these
[00:59:33] strangers if if the consequence is now I
[00:59:35] can't protect my own wife and children?
[00:59:37] >> That's right.
[00:59:37] >> I don't know. And I don't even know what
[00:59:38] the right answer is. I don't I can't
[00:59:40] even say for sure. If I'm if I'm looking
[00:59:41] at that happening and I'm in Daniel
[00:59:43] Penny's shoes and I got a wife and
[00:59:44] children at home, I think the right
[00:59:46] thing is for me to step up and do what
[00:59:48] he did, but I'm not even sure if it's
[00:59:49] the right thing because because I got a
[00:59:51] wife and kids and now I got to call
[00:59:53] them. I got to call my wife and say,
[00:59:54] "Hey, by the way, I might be going to
[00:59:56] prison forever. Um, good luck." You
[00:59:59] know, I don't know. It's it's it puts it
[01:00:02] it it it creates a lose-lose unwinable
[01:00:04] situation. Even now you feel that even
[01:00:06] after the last election and clearly
[01:00:08] there's a reaction against
[01:00:11] the kind of government that we had
[01:00:14] you you still would feel like no one in
[01:00:17] authority would support you and uh yeah
[01:00:21] generally I think the rot well first of
[01:00:24] all this is a this is a
[01:00:26] I mean when we talk about the state in
[01:00:28] general failing to do the basic things
[01:00:30] to preserve civilization this is a wide
[01:00:33] problem it goes the it's the state
[01:00:35] level, it's the local level, cities,
[01:00:38] >> and um has all of that been fixed? Like
[01:00:41] definitely not. I mean, not even close.
[01:00:43] >> Well, so that that was kind of the broad
[01:00:45] that was exactly the question I'm asking
[01:00:46] and it I don't even know if I have. You
[01:00:48] sent out an amazing tweet recently. Oh,
[01:00:51] it's right here, December 4th. I want to
[01:00:53] read it. It's an empirical fact that
[01:00:55] basically everything in our day-to-day
[01:00:57] lives has gotten worse over the years.
[01:00:59] The quality of everything, food,
[01:01:00] clothing, entertainment, air travel,
[01:01:02] roads, traffic, infrastructure, housing,
[01:01:03] etc. has declined in observable ways.
[01:01:06] You're a nice writer, by the way. Thank
[01:01:07] you. There's not enough good writing on
[01:01:08] Twitter.
[01:01:09] >> Oh, great.
[01:01:09] >> Even newer inventions, search engines,
[01:01:11] social media, smartphones have gone
[01:01:13] downhill drastically. This isn't just a
[01:01:15] random old man yells at clouds
[01:01:17] complaint.
[01:01:19] It's true. It's happening. The decline
[01:01:21] can be measured. Everyone sees it.
[01:01:23] Everyone feels it. Meanwhile, political
[01:01:26] pundits and podcast hosts, speaking of
[01:01:27] things that are getting worse, focus on
[01:01:30] anything and everything except these
[01:01:32] practical real life problems that
[01:01:34] actually affect our quality of life. So,
[01:01:36] I have like eight questions there. And
[01:01:38] I'm going to ask you about your core
[01:01:40] observation. Is it getting worse?
[01:01:41] Clearly, it is.
[01:01:43] Why are podcast hosts and pundits
[01:01:46] ignoring this physical reality?
[01:01:51] >> I I don't know. Oh, I think that
[01:01:55] it's a wide group of people. I think
[01:01:56] they have different motivations. I I
[01:01:58] think for Well, there's the most obvious
[01:02:00] answer is that for a lot of these
[01:02:02] people, pundits, podcast hosts, cable
[01:02:04] news ho, you know, all the media in
[01:02:06] general. Um, a lot of them, I think, are
[01:02:09] insulated from a lot of this stuff. They
[01:02:11] don't they don't live in this world.
[01:02:12] >> Yeah, that's right.
[01:02:13] >> Um, and things like, so for example,
[01:02:17] we talk about things that are getting
[01:02:18] worse. One thing, and it seems small,
[01:02:21] but it's not. One thing that's really
[01:02:24] getting worse is restaurant food. Okay?
[01:02:27] Re the food at most restaurants. I'm
[01:02:29] talking about like chain restaurants.
[01:02:30] You go to Applebees or Chili's or
[01:02:31] whatever. You order a pizza from one of
[01:02:33] these places, especially one of these
[01:02:34] chain places. And the food is worse. And
[01:02:37] that's not just again, it's not old man.
[01:02:39] I am an old man yelling at clouds, but
[01:02:40] it's not what this is. It is act. It's
[01:02:42] it is true. It's a real thing that's
[01:02:44] happening. And you can trace it. You can
[01:02:46] look at okay uh starting in the early
[01:02:49] 2000s uh all these places started
[01:02:52] getting bought up by private equity
[01:02:54] companies. Yeah.
[01:02:54] >> And so now they're they're run by people
[01:02:57] who don't care about the product or even
[01:02:59] know anything about it. So that's
[01:03:01] happening. Um also uh it used to be that
[01:03:05] you go to these places and it's a bunch
[01:03:07] of like teenagers and college kids that
[01:03:09] are working there and uh and they're
[01:03:11] just working there to make some money to
[01:03:12] pay for college or whatever. And that's
[01:03:14] happening less now. And now you've got
[01:03:17] um adults, you know, very a an
[01:03:19] increasing number of like people with
[01:03:21] substance abuse problems, people who,
[01:03:23] you know, they're in their late 20s and
[01:03:25] they're still, you know, they're they're
[01:03:27] doing a job that a 16-year-old used to
[01:03:29] do because their life isn't working out
[01:03:30] exactly as it should. That's it. That's
[01:03:32] its own problems. Like, why is that
[01:03:33] happening, right? Um, but but the effect
[01:03:36] of that is that even a lot of the
[01:03:38] people, not not all of them at all, but
[01:03:40] a lot of the people in the
[01:03:42] establishments that are working there on
[01:03:43] the ground don't really care that much
[01:03:45] about the product. And you can see why
[01:03:47] they don't care. They're getting paid
[01:03:48] crap wages. They've got a difficult
[01:03:50] life. They're working for people who
[01:03:53] don't care about it. Like, so the guy
[01:03:55] who runs this, if I'm working at
[01:03:57] Applebee's and I'm a waiter and I'm
[01:03:59] looking at it like, okay, the guy who
[01:04:01] runs this place doesn't know anything
[01:04:02] about this. He doesn't care. I'm getting
[01:04:05] paid nothing. Uh why do I care? You
[01:04:08] know, and so so I don't care. And so
[01:04:10] that's happening. And then the quality
[01:04:12] of the food. It used to be that most of
[01:04:13] these places made their food fresh. Now
[01:04:15] no place makes fresh food anymore. They
[01:04:17] all buy frozen food. There are a couple
[01:04:19] of food distributors. Cisco is one of
[01:04:20] them. That the vast majority of the food
[01:04:23] that you eat at a Chili's or Applebees
[01:04:25] or whatever is distributed. It comes off
[01:04:28] the same truck. It's the same frozen
[01:04:31] food that comes off of the same truck
[01:04:33] and that is served in all these places,
[01:04:35] which is why all the food sucks and it
[01:04:38] all tastes the same because it's
[01:04:39] literally the same. People don't know
[01:04:40] that uh even pizza places again
[01:04:44] everything's frozen. There's one I
[01:04:46] forget the name of it. There's one
[01:04:48] cheese distributor that distributes most
[01:04:50] of the cheese at all these different
[01:04:52] places and that's like the crucial
[01:04:54] element of a pizza and it's literally
[01:04:56] the same. It's the same thing and but
[01:04:59] they're just pretending that it's not.
[01:05:00] So my point is that this is a small
[01:05:01] thing.
[01:05:03] >> By the way, it's not a small thing,
[01:05:04] >> right? So it's not
[01:05:05] >> what people eat is important.
[01:05:06] >> Yes. It's quality of life. It's your
[01:05:08] diet. It's what you eat. It's um and
[01:05:11] that stuff really matters. Now podcast
[01:05:13] hosts and pundits, a lot of them, why
[01:05:16] don't they care? Well, there's two
[01:05:17] reasons. Number one, they're not eating
[01:05:19] at these places. And if you have money,
[01:05:22] then you don't have to worry about that
[01:05:24] because you can go to expensive places
[01:05:26] where the steak costs $85 and it's not
[01:05:29] going to hurt you much because you got a
[01:05:30] lot of money. And if you have a lot of
[01:05:32] money, then you don't notice any of this
[01:05:34] because at the really fancy restaurants
[01:05:36] where people spend a lot of money, most
[01:05:38] of those places are still making fresh
[01:05:40] food and the service is a lot better
[01:05:43] because they're paying better wages to
[01:05:45] their to the to their waiters. Now
[01:05:47] you've got older waiters and waitresses,
[01:05:48] but they're older who have kind of
[01:05:50] climbed up the ladder. They're really
[01:05:51] good at this. They get paid better
[01:05:53] wages. They care about it. Like you go
[01:05:55] into one of these fancy places, and I
[01:05:57] like eating at I mean, who doesn't like
[01:05:58] eating at these kind of restaurants? The
[01:05:59] food is good. But you go into it and one
[01:06:01] of the first things you notice before
[01:06:03] you even get to the quality of the food
[01:06:04] is that everyone, at least at the good
[01:06:07] places, everyone that you interact with,
[01:06:09] starting at the hostess stand, seems to
[01:06:12] be really happy that you're there and
[01:06:13] they care that you're having a good
[01:06:14] experience. That is not how it works
[01:06:17] when when you go to Chili's, you know.
[01:06:19] So anyway, the these podcast the these
[01:06:23] people that I'm talking about, they're
[01:06:25] in those places and so they're not in
[01:06:26] the places where the quality is falling
[01:06:27] off falling off a cliff. And then also
[01:06:31] >> I think that and this is something we
[01:06:34] all do and I do it too.
[01:06:36] >> You get caught in this.
[01:06:39] We're dealing with like national issues
[01:06:40] all the time. and we're dealing with
[01:06:42] politics and what's happening in
[01:06:43] Washington and the president and
[01:06:46] geopolitics and what's happening. We're
[01:06:47] dealing with these massive big things
[01:06:49] all the time if you're a pundit, if you
[01:06:51] do commentary. And so you can fall into
[01:06:54] this line of thinking that
[01:06:58] the things that actually impact
[01:07:00] someone's physical everyday life, those
[01:07:04] things are just too small to worry
[01:07:07] about. Well, politicians wind up at this
[01:07:10] exact place
[01:07:10] >> and and and and and it's true that
[01:07:12] because I run into this when I start
[01:07:14] talking about this stuff, I will hear
[01:07:15] this criticism from people. They'll say,
[01:07:17] "Why are you talking about this?" I did
[01:07:19] a I did a whole video on my on my
[01:07:21] channel few weeks ago.
[01:07:25] I did like a 30 minute monologue on why
[01:07:28] does restaurant food suck. And um there
[01:07:31] are two interesting things that happened
[01:07:32] after I talked about this issue. One is
[01:07:34] that I did get a lot of criticism from
[01:07:36] people saying everything's happening in
[01:07:37] the world. You're talking about
[01:07:38] Applebees. Like why are you talking
[01:07:40] about this? You know, it's like how out
[01:07:43] of touch are you? When really it's the
[01:07:44] opposite. It's like no, this is this is
[01:07:46] the stuff that's happening in people's
[01:07:47] lives. But so that I got that criticism,
[01:07:49] but then what I also noticed is that
[01:07:52] a lot of people watched that video. It
[01:07:54] was like one of the more um successful
[01:07:58] in terms of traffic videos that I've
[01:07:59] done in a while.
[01:08:02] And
[01:08:03] uh and it was just about food at
[01:08:05] Applebee's.
[01:08:07] And why is that? It's because again this
[01:08:09] is like this this is your life. This is
[01:08:12] what's happening in your actual life and
[01:08:15] it it matters. It touches you and and it
[01:08:18] touches your family.
[01:08:19] >> Yes. And this is one thing I notice
[01:08:22] about um a lot of people in the world
[01:08:26] that I have always lived in is they
[01:08:28] either spend time and this is true for
[01:08:29] me. I'll admit it. They either spend
[01:08:32] time in very rich places or in very
[01:08:36] rural like low-income places, but
[01:08:39] there's no time spent in the middle,
[01:08:42] which is where the overwhelming majority
[01:08:43] of Americans live. So, it's like only
[01:08:45] rich people, only poor people, but no
[01:08:48] middle class people. So, they have a
[01:08:49] sense of like, you know, a lot of rich
[01:08:52] people have summer houses. So, they sort
[01:08:53] of get the, you know, if you're on
[01:08:54] Nucket, right, and you go there in the
[01:08:56] winter and everyone's on drugs, you're
[01:08:58] like, "Oh, wow." You know, fentanyl is a
[01:09:00] huge problem in our country, but there's
[01:09:02] no Applebees. There's no Applebees in
[01:09:04] Cambridge, Mass. There's no Applebees in
[01:09:05] Nucket. There's no Do you see what I'm
[01:09:07] saying? You just you do get a very And I
[01:09:11] am so guilty of this. In fact, so guilty
[01:09:14] that I really go out of my way to like
[01:09:16] understand, you know, but there's no
[01:09:19] sense of like normaly.
[01:09:21] >> Yeah. It's also in the same way that
[01:09:23] like the richest people, Bill Gates for
[01:09:25] example, are totally focused on curing
[01:09:27] Africa and in Congo. I mean, curing
[01:09:30] malaria, polio,
[01:09:34] they're obsessed with the problems of
[01:09:35] the poorest
[01:09:37] while living the lives of the richest,
[01:09:39] but like the bulk of the population is
[01:09:40] invisible to them.
[01:09:41] >> Yeah, I think that's right. I I was
[01:09:43] having a conversation with someone
[01:09:44] recently who's in the business and um I
[01:09:47] don't know I mentioned in passing
[01:09:50] I remember why I just mentioned in
[01:09:51] passing I just been at I just was coming
[01:09:53] I just had been to Walmart. I was pick I
[01:09:55] was buying something whatever I went to
[01:09:56] Walmart and uh this person was
[01:10:02] shocked that I'd gone to Walmart and
[01:10:04] they said I I haven't been in a Walmart
[01:10:05] in 20 years
[01:10:06] >> because there are no whites in Walmart.
[01:10:08] That's the other thing. They're like
[01:10:09] there you drive into like middle America
[01:10:11] there are no where I don't know what
[01:10:12] happened to all the whites but are we
[01:10:14] allowed to say that? I just noticed it
[01:10:15] like where all the there's no whites at
[01:10:17] like a rest area on the highway anymore.
[01:10:20] >> Yeah.
[01:10:20] >> And in Walmart I go to buy uh sporting
[01:10:23] clays. It's my only my only shopping
[01:10:25] trip of the year usually.
[01:10:26] >> And it's like where all the white
[01:10:28] people?
[01:10:29] >> Well, that's that's part of the thing.
[01:10:30] It's it's I mean it's a small it's a
[01:10:32] small thing but it's it's just it's uh
[01:10:34] emblematic of the problem. It's like,
[01:10:36] >> well, there's just been total
[01:10:37] demographic changes.
[01:10:38] >> But but if as a commentator,
[01:10:41] if you have never been in a Walmart or,
[01:10:44] you know, it's like, well, then that's
[01:10:47] America. I mean, that's that's the
[01:10:48] that's middle America.
[01:10:49] >> Oh, I totally agree.
[01:10:50] >> So, it's just there's there's a basic uh
[01:10:53] I'm not saying you got to go and walk
[01:10:55] around a Walmart like a safari trip just
[01:10:57] to understand America. I'm just saying
[01:10:58] that that uh it's just like that's yeah,
[01:11:00] that's what's going on in America is at
[01:11:02] a place like that. And if you're just
[01:11:04] never there at all, to your point about
[01:11:07] either you're out in the sticks or
[01:11:08] you're in the really wealthy areas, then
[01:11:10] you're you're not really in touch with
[01:11:12] what's actually happening in America.
[01:11:14] And one of those things is Yeah. when
[01:11:15] you go you you do notice this when you
[01:11:16] go to the places where everybody goes.
[01:11:19] Walmart is one of those places. The DMV
[01:11:21] is one of those places like a place
[01:11:22] where everybody has to go.
[01:11:24] >> Yeah.
[01:11:25] >> Um unless they're very very very rich,
[01:11:28] >> right?
[01:11:28] >> Um or very very very poor. When you go
[01:11:30] to those places, you do notice you start
[01:11:32] noticing things. And one of those things
[01:11:33] is like, yeah, it's like it looks a lot
[01:11:36] different now. It it's it's um it's
[01:11:39] yeah, not not nearly as many white
[01:11:40] people as there used to be. You start
[01:11:41] noticing those kinds of things.
[01:11:42] >> Like, yeah, like it, you know, I've
[01:11:45] never been a bigot. It's prohibited by
[01:11:48] my religion, but I also think there's
[01:11:51] overwhelming pressure not to notice
[01:11:53] obvious things. And I try to keep
[01:11:55] myself, you know, alert just to notice
[01:11:58] what my eyes tell me. And uh that's the
[01:12:01] biggest change. That's an incredibly
[01:12:03] fast change. Incredibly fast change.
[01:12:07] Not is not an accidental change. It was
[01:12:08] an intentional change to reduce the
[01:12:10] white population in the United States.
[01:12:12] And I've kind of never seen anybody more
[01:12:14] passively accept it. And I
[01:12:18] wonder like are we getting a point where
[01:12:20] we can say that and notice it? And why
[01:12:21] is that good exactly?
[01:12:24] Well, for for every other
[01:12:27] it's it's funny because certainly for
[01:12:30] every other race on the planet, if we
[01:12:33] were to look and see that in their
[01:12:35] native countries,
[01:12:37] um they are dwindling and disappearing.
[01:12:41] Everyone, it would be nothing
[01:12:42] controversial about saying, well, this
[01:12:44] is bad. No one would say, well, why is
[01:12:46] it bad? You know, if if
[01:12:48] >> I'm not even saying it's bad. I'm just
[01:12:49] saying it's so profound and abrupt.
[01:12:52] Well, and I I I will say I think it's
[01:12:54] bad.
[01:12:54] >> Yeah.
[01:12:55] >> Uh I think if you go to Nigeria, if I
[01:12:57] were to go to Nigeria and notice that
[01:12:59] like all the Nigerians are disappearing.
[01:13:01] >> Yeah.
[01:13:01] >> I would say, well, what's going on here?
[01:13:02] I mean, like
[01:13:03] >> everyone's Chinese all of a sudden,
[01:13:04] >> right? That's like that's bad. And and
[01:13:07] if I said that, no one I don't think
[01:13:08] anyone would even ask, well, why is it
[01:13:09] bad? What do you mean why is it bad?
[01:13:11] It's Nigeria. Like there should be
[01:13:12] Nigerians in Nigeria. Um and it's bad if
[01:13:15] some other group comes and and takes it
[01:13:16] over. And I think for any other race or
[01:13:18] demographic on the planet, you can say
[01:13:19] that. uh for white people, we're the one
[01:13:22] race, the one demographic where it's not
[01:13:25] even just that you can't notice that
[01:13:26] this replacement is happening. It's that
[01:13:28] in fact, we're at the point now where
[01:13:30] you should notice it and celebrate it.
[01:13:31] It should be seen as a good thing.
[01:13:33] >> Isn't that evil? Isn't anyone who tells
[01:13:35] me that I'm not allowed to notice or
[01:13:36] scolds me for noticing, isn't that
[01:13:38] person my enemy? Isn't that I mean, how
[01:13:40] could you justify that? What does that
[01:13:41] say about your motives?
[01:13:43] >> Yeah, I think I think so. And also, it's
[01:13:45] I said it's every other demographic on
[01:13:47] the planet.
[01:13:49] um any other species on the like if I
[01:13:53] [laughter]
[01:13:53] you know it's so true.
[01:13:54] >> Yeah. If
[01:13:55] >> where are all the condors?
[01:13:56] >> Right. Exactly. If I if we look we get
[01:13:58] these panics all the time. Oh, all the
[01:14:00] um Amazonian horned owls are
[01:14:03] disappearing or whatever.
[01:14:04] >> And they're going away. We have to
[01:14:07] preserve them. No one even stops and
[01:14:08] asks like why do we need Amazonian horn?
[01:14:10] Like we've got a million other owls.
[01:14:11] Well, owls. Why do we [laughter] need
[01:14:12] these owls?
[01:14:14] >> And it's just seen as like well they're
[01:14:15] a species that existed. they should
[01:14:17] continue to exist. And so for every
[01:14:20] other demographic and species of living
[01:14:23] being,
[01:14:25] we can all agree that if those people
[01:14:27] disappear that it's bad and white people
[01:14:30] only one that we can't say that. And
[01:14:32] part of the reason for that, I think, is
[01:14:34] well, there's a lot of anti-white
[01:14:36] sentiment.
[01:14:38] But also,
[01:14:41] uh, so I I use the example of Nigeria.
[01:14:43] Everyone recognizes that Nigerians or
[01:14:46] black are the native inhabitants of
[01:14:49] Nigeria. And so if the native
[01:14:51] inhabitants go away, we see that as a
[01:14:54] bad thing. The the Amazonian horned owl
[01:14:57] is a native inhabitant of the I don't
[01:14:59] think that exists. I'm just Yeah,
[01:15:00] whatever. But they're a native
[01:15:01] inhabitant of the Amazon and so they
[01:15:03] should be there. with white people. It's
[01:15:05] this really interesting thing
[01:15:08] where what we're told is that white
[01:15:10] people are not native anywhere. We are
[01:15:14] not indigenous to anywhere. Which is
[01:15:17] why, and I'm not like making this up,
[01:15:19] there's nowhere in the world you can go
[01:15:22] where the people who are officially
[01:15:24] recognized as the indigenous habitants
[01:15:26] are white. Nowhere. White people do not
[01:15:28] >> How is that not genocidal intent?
[01:15:31] >> Well, that's my point. So it's like,
[01:15:33] okay, so we're not indigenous to
[01:15:34] anywhere. So where are we supposed to
[01:15:35] be? Because the other part is
[01:15:37] >> we're supposed to be dead
[01:15:39] >> apparently.
[01:15:39] >> Yeah.
[01:15:40] >> Because we're told that, okay, the here
[01:15:42] the indigenous habitants and the the
[01:15:46] what's implied every time we talk about
[01:15:47] indigenous people or just outright said
[01:15:49] is that well they this land is really
[01:15:51] theirs and so you shouldn't be here. And
[01:15:54] so what we're saying to white people
[01:15:55] everywhere is that you shouldn't be
[01:15:57] here. Well, where should we be? Do you
[01:15:58] want us to go to Mars? I mean, are we
[01:16:00] going to like are we going to Jupiter?
[01:16:02] Where are we supposed to be? Or do we
[01:16:03] are are you just going to throw us into
[01:16:04] the ocean? And I think the answer is
[01:16:07] that we really shouldn't be anywhere.
[01:16:09] Which is why we should not be
[01:16:12] embarrassed or afraid to say that the
[01:16:16] native
[01:16:18] like Native Americans
[01:16:21] are white people of European descent.
[01:16:25] That is true. The people that we call
[01:16:27] Native Americans now are not Native
[01:16:30] Americans. And the reason they're not
[01:16:31] Native Americans is because they did not
[01:16:35] form a country called America. They are
[01:16:38] not native. America is a country. It's
[01:16:40] not just a a place. It's not just a plot
[01:16:42] of land. It is a country. And before
[01:16:46] America was formed as a nation, this
[01:16:49] place was not America because America
[01:16:51] didn't exist. America existed when it
[01:16:53] was formed. And so if someone can trace
[01:16:57] their lineage back to the Comanche on
[01:17:00] the Great Plains,
[01:17:02] um well that that doesn't make you a you
[01:17:06] weren't native to America. You're a
[01:17:08] native native to Comancheria. You're
[01:17:10] you're native to to to this. You're not
[01:17:13] native to the country of America. The
[01:17:15] people who are native to the nation of
[01:17:17] America, the people who formed this
[01:17:19] nation were by and large almost
[01:17:22] exclusively
[01:17:23] white people of European descent. Um
[01:17:26] they are the natives of this country.
[01:17:28] They are the ones who formed this
[01:17:29] country. That doesn't mean that other
[01:17:30] people aren't allowed to live here. It
[01:17:32] just means that they're the natives. And
[01:17:35] again, anywhere else on the in the
[01:17:37] world, there's nothing controversial
[01:17:38] about pointing that out. And we're the
[01:17:40] only place where we're not allowed to
[01:17:41] say that. But I I I've been on this uh
[01:17:44] I've been preaching this for a while
[01:17:45] now. I think we should we need and not
[01:17:47] just as a gimmick. Like I really believe
[01:17:48] we should reclaim the title of Native
[01:17:51] American and not not to not to denigrate
[01:17:55] the people that we call natives who I
[01:17:58] think that they're
[01:18:00] it's really interesting to read about
[01:18:01] their cultures and their history.
[01:18:02] >> Oh, they're amazing people but not
[01:18:04] native to here.
[01:18:04] >> They're not native to America. And they
[01:18:06] also were, by the way, they're also not
[01:18:08] native in the strictest sense to this
[01:18:11] hemisphere. Like they didn't sprout out
[01:18:14] of the ground. They came here at some
[01:18:16] point in the past
[01:18:16] >> from Asia.
[01:18:17] >> From Asia. They fought brutally with
[01:18:20] each other over the land. All of the the
[01:18:23] so-called natives that were here and had
[01:18:25] claimed land when Europeans first
[01:18:27] started showing up in the late 1400s,
[01:18:29] early 1500s, all of those people had
[01:18:32] were on that land because they brutally
[01:18:35] killed who who'd been on it before,
[01:18:37] right?
[01:18:37] >> And they raped their women and took
[01:18:39] their children as slaves.
[01:18:40] >> One wave of conquest supplanted the
[01:18:42] next.
[01:18:42] >> Exactly. And and and and the law of
[01:18:44] conquest is what determined
[01:18:46] >> No, it's it's of course it's factually
[01:18:48] true. And by the way, it's been
[01:18:50] suppressed for many decades by
[01:18:53] anthropologists and archaeologists, by
[01:18:54] the official policy of the US
[01:18:55] government, but cracking the human
[01:18:57] genome made it impossible to deny
[01:18:59] >> uh the origin of the of the American
[01:19:01] Indians, which was Asia.
[01:19:03] >> It's fine. I mean, I really like the
[01:19:05] Native Americans. Uh personally, yeah,
[01:19:07] I'm not against them at all. I feel so
[01:19:09] bad for them. Uh but you're absolutely
[01:19:12] 100% right. I just find it so
[01:19:15] interesting the coordinated effort to to
[01:19:18] exterminate white people um which is of
[01:19:21] in full flower now but it's so
[01:19:24] you know it's 1945 is when it started
[01:19:27] and but it was every part of our society
[01:19:29] I remember at Fox News in the most
[01:19:31] gentle way trying to say you know maybe
[01:19:33] all lives do matter or we shouldn't
[01:19:35] attack whites because they're white man
[01:19:37] that was like the worst argument I ever
[01:19:38] got in with a with a senior executive at
[01:19:42] the at the network like that's racist.
[01:19:45] No, it's actually an argument against
[01:19:46] racism. It's like everybody on all sides
[01:19:50] was so brainwashed and just accepting
[01:19:52] this.
[01:19:53] And then of course it happened. And so I
[01:19:56] wonder does it ever let up? Didn't let
[01:19:59] up in Zimbabwe or South Africa. You like
[01:20:02] take the power, kill a bunch of whites,
[01:20:04] suppress them, and then like 30 years
[01:20:07] later you're still blaming them for
[01:20:08] everything. Will that happen here when
[01:20:10] this becomes majority non-white?
[01:20:13] I I all indications are that it will
[01:20:16] continue. I mean,
[01:20:17] >> so how do you respond to it? What's the
[01:20:19] right way to respond? You don't want
[01:20:20] some kind of race war. I don't want to
[01:20:22] wake up every day thinking about my
[01:20:23] whiteness. I'm not interested in my
[01:20:24] whiteness. Just being honest. I don't
[01:20:26] like thinking in those terms. Sorry,
[01:20:28] call me a boomer, which I'm not. But I'm
[01:20:30] I just don't want to I want to see
[01:20:32] people as people. But how do you respond
[01:20:35] to that? Because you can't allow that.
[01:20:37] You can't allow people to attack your
[01:20:38] kids because of their skin color. What
[01:20:41] the [ __ ]
[01:20:42] >> Right. Exactly. I I think you respond to
[01:20:44] it
[01:20:46] and I think there has been some progress
[01:20:47] actually in this regard. Probably
[01:20:49] significant amount of
[01:20:50] >> you've been a big part of that by the
[01:20:51] way on the right. So, thank you.
[01:20:52] >> Well, I I mean I think a lot I think I
[01:20:54] think this is one of the things like I
[01:20:57] said before there are some victories the
[01:20:58] conservatives have had.
[01:20:59] >> Yeah.
[01:21:00] >> Uh I know some some of the more
[01:21:02] doomer-minded conservatives say what do
[01:21:04] we conserve? We haven't conserved
[01:21:05] anything. Well, I'm not saying it's been
[01:21:07] a it's been a you know, I'm not saying
[01:21:10] it's been we've been batting a thousand,
[01:21:11] but I think we have succeeded.
[01:21:13] >> I think they're referring I Well, maybe
[01:21:16] this is what I think, but I do think
[01:21:17] they're mostly referring to conservative
[01:21:18] institutions.
[01:21:20] >> Yeah. Which which
[01:21:21] >> the Republican Congress or some
[01:21:23] Republican think tank like those clearly
[01:21:26] haven't achieved a lot.
[01:21:27] >> Yeah, I would agree with that. But so so
[01:21:29] one uh so one one success that I think
[01:21:32] that you're starting to see recently is
[01:21:33] that the
[01:21:35] the left used to get a lot of mileage
[01:21:37] out of uh obviously not engaging with
[01:21:39] arguments but just labeling them. They
[01:21:41] would just label the argument. And so
[01:21:42] they would say their way of engaging
[01:21:43] with argument is say well uh argument is
[01:21:46] not wrong or right. I don't care about
[01:21:47] that. The the argument is an isor or
[01:21:49] ism. The argument is racist. The
[01:21:51] argument is is is you know whatever
[01:21:53] bigoted islamophobic whatever um
[01:21:55] anti-semitic. So that they used to they
[01:21:58] used to get a lot of mileage out of
[01:21:59] that. And I think what's happening now
[01:22:00] is that people are people are saying,
[01:22:02] "Well, I don't care about the labels."
[01:22:03] Like, you can say whatever label you
[01:22:05] want. It just doesn't it doesn't mean
[01:22:06] anything to me. And the reason it
[01:22:08] doesn't mean anything to me is it's not
[01:22:10] my fault. It's your fault.
[01:22:12] >> When you when you decided that
[01:22:14] everything fits under that label, the
[01:22:15] label doesn't mean anything anymore.
[01:22:17] >> Exactly.
[01:22:17] >> Uh and I think that's made people more
[01:22:19] more fearless. There there was a time I
[01:22:21] mean, look, you go back look go back to
[01:22:22] 2000, not 2000. Well, certainly 2000,
[01:22:24] but even going back to 2020,
[01:22:27] um, in the the throws of the Floyd
[01:22:30] hysteria. And
[01:22:33] for a lot of people, being called racist
[01:22:35] was it's like the worst thing in the
[01:22:38] world. They were terrified of it.
[01:22:39] >> Oh, yeah.
[01:22:40] >> Being called racist was it it for a lot
[01:22:41] of people that was worse than being
[01:22:42] called like a child molester. I mean,
[01:22:44] they they they would rather be called
[01:22:46] anything but racist. And there's all
[01:22:48] this fear and I think the the race
[01:22:50] hustlers got a a lot of mileage out of
[01:22:52] that fear. I think that fear is starting
[01:22:55] to dissipate.
[01:22:56] >> And yet I still haven't seen many
[01:22:59] people, especially people who spend a
[01:23:01] lot of time claiming bias against them.
[01:23:04] Coming out and making unequivocal
[01:23:06] statements against anti-white hate. Like
[01:23:08] that's the one category. I haven't seen
[01:23:10] a lot of people say that. Like no,
[01:23:12] hating whites is every bit as hating
[01:23:14] blacks or hating Jews or hating Asians
[01:23:16] or whatever. hating a group is immoral.
[01:23:18] I have seen very few people say that and
[01:23:21] Barry Weiss is not big on that. Why?
[01:23:23] Like why why can't we just say that it's
[01:23:25] all the same. It's all species of the
[01:23:27] same evil. Like that that's my opinion.
[01:23:29] I think that's the Christian view.
[01:23:31] Someone correct me if if I'm wrong, but
[01:23:33] it's certainly my opinion and it makes a
[01:23:36] it's a coherent argument, but I never
[01:23:38] see anybody say that. Well, I think I
[01:23:40] think it's a lot of that is programming
[01:23:42] that's been going on for a long time to
[01:23:44] to
[01:23:46] the the the way a lot of people are
[01:23:47] programmed is that to speak specifically
[01:23:52] in defense of white people as a group
[01:23:56] um to say anything positive about white
[01:23:58] people as a group is just automatically
[01:24:01] racist. And I think that this and it's
[01:24:03] it's obviously bonkers,
[01:24:06] >> right? It's so it's absurd, but it's
[01:24:08] ingrained deeply. I mean, this goes back
[01:24:10] to I can remember this kind of
[01:24:13] conditioning in public school in the
[01:24:14] '90s. I went to public school. I can I
[01:24:17] can, you know, we talk about wokeness
[01:24:18] like it just started in 2015. It didn't.
[01:24:21] And maybe it was worse in 2015 than it
[01:24:23] was in 1993. I can remember it in 1993.
[01:24:26] And I can remember being in school and
[01:24:28] the only time that if we ever talked
[01:24:32] about like our
[01:24:36] ancestors or the people who founded this
[01:24:38] country or anything like that, it was it
[01:24:41] was either in an expressly negative way.
[01:24:43] Let's talk about all the ter terrible
[01:24:45] things they did or if we are going to
[01:24:46] acknowledge anything good they did, we
[01:24:48] have to couch it by first saying,
[01:24:51] well, here's a lot of bad things they
[01:24:52] did. They also did this but also the
[01:24:54] bad. And so that's been going on for
[01:24:56] such a long time.
[01:24:57] >> These were in retrospect, these were the
[01:24:59] first moves. These were the shock troops
[01:25:01] of a total takeover and change in the
[01:25:04] country. Like this was preparation for
[01:25:06] what we got under Biden where it's just
[01:25:08] like let's just
[01:25:09] >> totally transform the demographics of
[01:25:12] the country in four years
[01:25:13] >> and then no one will will feel free to
[01:25:15] say anything about it because racism,
[01:25:18] >> right?
[01:25:18] >> I mean, it feels that way to me. I don't
[01:25:20] know if it was a strategy or
[01:25:21] intentional, but it was certainly a
[01:25:23] coordinated effort, maybe unconsciously,
[01:25:25] but like it wasn't an accident and it
[01:25:27] happened in every white majority country
[01:25:30] and that's why there won't be any white
[01:25:32] majority countries really soon. And so
[01:25:35] like what was that? I I kind of wish I
[01:25:38] wasn't white in saying this because it's
[01:25:41] like it's not self it's first of all
[01:25:42] it's curiosity. Like what the hell? You
[01:25:44] almost never see anything happen
[01:25:46] globally
[01:25:48] that's that similar in countries that
[01:25:51] aren't that similar. Like the United
[01:25:53] States is not that similar to the UK or
[01:25:57] Canada or New Zealand, Australia, but
[01:25:59] exactly the same thing happened in all
[01:26:01] of those places.
[01:26:02] >> Much much worse in a lot of those
[01:26:03] places. M
[01:26:04] >> Austral Yeah. Oh, if you visit those
[01:26:06] places, it'll just break your heart
[01:26:08] because there's the people are broken.
[01:26:10] But
[01:26:11] >> in in Canada, they they are
[01:26:12] >> well, Canada is not even a country.
[01:26:14] >> It's not even a country. And they they
[01:26:15] are they are overwhelmed with guilt.
[01:26:18] They they are so
[01:26:19] >> they're murdering the government is
[01:26:20] murdering tens of thousands of its
[01:26:22] citizens every year. They're almost all
[01:26:24] white. And now they're going to be doing
[01:26:26] it to kids. And by the way, under the
[01:26:28] maids program, they're harvesting the
[01:26:30] organs. They're harvesting the organs
[01:26:33] from the Canadians they kill. So it's
[01:26:36] like the darkest thing. That's like I
[01:26:38] would feel much freer and safer living
[01:26:41] in China than Canada. I can't believe
[01:26:43] I'm saying that. I actually love Canada.
[01:26:45] But that's happening and no one's saying
[01:26:46] a word about it.
[01:26:48] >> Yeah. It's well that that in particular
[01:26:49] is one of those things that it's so dark
[01:26:52] and so depraved that when you talk about
[01:26:54] it, I think a lot of people, especially
[01:26:55] in America, they think you you're making
[01:26:57] it up or you're exaggerating. I
[01:26:58] >> I almost don't talk about it very often
[01:27:01] because I don't think anyone believes
[01:27:03] it. But I live right near Canada and I
[01:27:06] know and I I'm like the only American
[01:27:08] who really sincerely loves Canada cuz
[01:27:09] it's just so beautiful. Not the only,
[01:27:11] but not many people care about Canada. I
[01:27:13] do. So I know a lot of Canadians and
[01:27:15] that's absolutely you'll look it up on
[01:27:17] the inner tubes. It's there.
[01:27:19] >> It's it's becoming one of the leading
[01:27:20] causes of death and and
[01:27:22] >> it is one of the leading causes of death
[01:27:24] >> is is assisted suicide. I mean, just
[01:27:26] >> the government killing you and not
[01:27:27] because you have ALS, but because you
[01:27:30] can't pay your rent and then extending
[01:27:32] it to children and then harvesting the
[01:27:33] organs and the blood.
[01:27:36] I mean, I I feel like they're a way
[01:27:38] bigger threat to the United States than
[01:27:40] Venezuela. I would be open to an
[01:27:43] argument in favor of invading and
[01:27:45] occupying Canada on human rights
[01:27:47] grounds. I'm not joking even a tiny bit.
[01:27:49] I think it's one of the darkest
[01:27:50] countries in the world and it's such a
[01:27:52] great country with such great people. I
[01:27:54] don't know how we can allow this to
[01:27:55] happen without at least saying something
[01:27:57] about I'm not actually arguing for
[01:27:58] military action, but like maybe
[01:28:01] threatening it. The they're way worse
[01:28:03] than Maduro. Way worse than Maduro. Way
[01:28:07] worse. So like but I'm sure I'll be like
[01:28:09] scolded for how can you say that because
[01:28:12] it's true.
[01:28:13] >> Yeah. Well, the the the maid program
[01:28:15] alone is one of the most evil things
[01:28:17] happening in the world. Period.
[01:28:19] >> Murdering your citizens and harvesting
[01:28:20] their organs on a greater scale than
[01:28:22] China does. really and it's right there.
[01:28:25] >> I think one of the things that's
[01:28:26] happening, why are people ignoring this
[01:28:28] in America? Well, one thing it's it's
[01:28:30] people it's like not your country, so
[01:28:31] you think it doesn't affect you. I think
[01:28:33] it does affect us because also also like
[01:28:36] when you look at Canada and Europe and
[01:28:37] these that we're on the same kind of
[01:28:39] crazy train, they're just a few train
[01:28:41] cars up and so and so we that's why you
[01:28:43] got to pay attention to where they are
[01:28:44] because we're going to be there. So
[01:28:46] that's that's one thing.
[01:28:46] >> Yes. Thank you. But I think that also
[01:28:49] for cons for for some conservatives in
[01:28:51] this country uh there's some
[01:28:53] embarrassment about this because
[01:28:56] >> they I think there are plenty of
[01:28:57] conservatives who've been
[01:29:00] at least indifferent to to the issue of
[01:29:02] euthanasia and have even kind of I've
[01:29:04] had many arguments with so-called
[01:29:05] conservatives actually over the years
[01:29:07] not as much now because you see what's
[01:29:08] happening with maid but over the years
[01:29:10] with with saying that well you know
[01:29:12] because they they get hung up on this
[01:29:13] well it's a personal choice and and they
[01:29:15] just think as conservatives you just you
[01:29:17] you cannot oppose a personal choice. You
[01:29:20] just you can't do it. Um and uh and it's
[01:29:24] it's it's it's kind of the libertarian
[01:29:26] instinct gone way haywire in my mind.
[01:29:29] >> And and so they're but now you can see
[01:29:32] now those of us who have always been
[01:29:34] against
[01:29:35] >> so a desperate person has free will. Is
[01:29:37] that what they're saying?
[01:29:38] >> And that's the problem.
[01:29:39] >> These are children. They don't know what
[01:29:40] they're talking about. And also and also
[01:29:44] so those of us those of us who are
[01:29:45] opposed to it
[01:29:47] >> we have been saying for years like this
[01:29:49] is where it's going to go. Okay. Yeah.
[01:29:51] Right now they are. And the other
[01:29:53] argument for Ethan Asia was well these
[01:29:55] are people who are in terrible pain and
[01:29:58] they're at death store. They've only got
[01:30:00] days or at most weeks to live anyway.
[01:30:02] They're in horrible pain. You have no
[01:30:04] idea what it's like. And so they should
[01:30:06] be able to they should be able to have a
[01:30:09] way out. and and uh and like from an
[01:30:12] emotional level like I I get what you're
[01:30:14] saying. I totally disagree with it. I
[01:30:15] get what you're saying. Our argument was
[01:30:18] well there's a few arguments but the big
[01:30:20] one was okay that's what we're do. It's
[01:30:22] already evil to do that even with
[01:30:23] someone who's terminally ill. They're
[01:30:25] doing that now though. It will not stop
[01:30:27] there because it never stops there. And
[01:30:30] once you give the state and the medical
[01:30:32] establishment the authority to kill,
[01:30:36] they will not stop. It it it always
[01:30:38] starts with the most justifiable version
[01:30:40] of it that they can muster, which is
[01:30:43] still totally unjustifiable in my view,
[01:30:45] but they always starts with the most
[01:30:46] justifiable version. And then next it's
[01:30:48] like, okay, yeah, but yeah, we should
[01:30:50] include people who maybe they're not
[01:30:52] terminally ill, but they're chronically
[01:30:53] ill and they're a lot of pain. And okay,
[01:30:55] now we've included them. Well, what
[01:30:56] about what about mental illnesses? Well,
[01:30:58] what about this person over there? He's
[01:30:59] homeless. Yeah, he's not terminally ill,
[01:31:01] but his life is has no meaning and he's
[01:31:03] terrible. He lives on the street. And
[01:31:04] then and then you know step step and
[01:31:07] eventually you're killing kids too.
[01:31:09] We've seen this. We've seen this. And by
[01:31:10] the way, I grew I'm older than you.
[01:31:12] >> And so they were still teaching this in
[01:31:14] schools when I was a kid, but the the
[01:31:16] the Nazi experiment began with
[01:31:18] euthanasia famously. And it wasn't just
[01:31:21] on a small scale. It was like hundreds
[01:31:24] of thousands of people killed. And it
[01:31:26] began well down syndrome. Like how could
[01:31:28] your life be worth living? And then it
[01:31:29] wound up with Dietrich Bonhaofer and the
[01:31:30] Warsaw Ghetto. Like this was a very
[01:31:34] clear much written about continuum that
[01:31:37] began with murdering the weakest and
[01:31:39] then again you know uh it ended where it
[01:31:43] famously ended which was with mass
[01:31:44] murder. But Hitler was famous for his
[01:31:47] euthanasia program.
[01:31:50] He was also famous for like rounding
[01:31:52] people up and moving them to new places
[01:31:54] like is now openly being discussed in
[01:31:56] Gaza. It's like the whole thing is so
[01:31:57] bonkers and it just tells you that human
[01:32:00] evil is not specific to any group or
[01:32:02] time or place. It resides in every
[01:32:04] person. Every person is capable of this
[01:32:05] kind of behavior, justifying this kind
[01:32:07] of behavior and we should all be on
[01:32:08] guard against it. But like
[01:32:11] Hitler was very famous for youth in
[01:32:14] Asia. Did you even learn that in school?
[01:32:16] >> No, certainly not. [laughter]
[01:32:18] >> So funny things change. I was in first
[01:32:20] grade in 1975
[01:32:23] and that was like a feature of it. You
[01:32:27] know, he was bad because he killed
[01:32:29] people on the basis of like their DNA.
[01:32:31] That's not allowed.
[01:32:33] And he killed the weakest. Not allowed.
[01:32:36] And I guess they stopped teaching that.
[01:32:38] And and the other thing is when you give
[01:32:41] when you give the medical establishment
[01:32:43] when you accept the idea that death is a
[01:32:47] treatment
[01:32:48] >> Yeah. Um, you have opened the darkest
[01:32:52] door imaginable.
[01:32:53] >> Yes.
[01:32:54] >> And this is what's so frustrating is
[01:32:56] that what what is often what are often
[01:32:59] decrieded as slippery slope arguments.
[01:33:01] People talk about, oh, it's a fallacy.
[01:33:02] Slippery slope. First of all, slippery
[01:33:04] slope is not a fallacy.
[01:33:06] That's not it's not a facious way of
[01:33:07] making an argument. All we're trying to
[01:33:09] show you is that, okay, here's a door
[01:33:13] you've opened. Okay, you've made an
[01:33:16] argument to justify something. And what
[01:33:19] I'm trying to tell you is that I can
[01:33:20] take that argument intact and use it to
[01:33:24] justify this thing over here that we
[01:33:26] both agree is horrific. And so if I can
[01:33:29] do that, what that tells me is that what
[01:33:31] it should tell you is that either your
[01:33:33] argument is bad or the thing you're
[01:33:35] arguing for is bad or both. And that's
[01:33:38] that's what the slipper slope thing is.
[01:33:39] And and and that was the point with
[01:33:40] euthanasia. Once you
[01:33:43] allow
[01:33:45] the the medical establishment
[01:33:47] to to use death, murder as a form of
[01:33:51] medical treatment, you've completely
[01:33:54] flipped it on its head because the whole
[01:33:56] point of medicine is to heal and treat.
[01:33:59] And so, so to avoid death and pain. Like
[01:34:02] that's the point of it. And now you've
[01:34:04] flipped it upside down and you've said
[01:34:06] that death is the treatment. And so now
[01:34:08] you've just destroyed the whole thing.
[01:34:10] you've destroyed it. And uh
[01:34:13] >> but this happened I think that almost
[01:34:15] all obstitricians are required to commit
[01:34:17] abortion during their training.
[01:34:19] >> Yeah. Well, that's right.
[01:34:20] >> So then you wind up with an entire
[01:34:22] medical core that's evil.
[01:34:25] >> Yeah.
[01:34:26] >> Like there are a lot of evil doctors,
[01:34:28] not just a few, but a lot
[01:34:31] >> evil and or I mean I guess this is the
[01:34:33] same thing, but h they they have to be
[01:34:37] very indifferent to human life, which is
[01:34:38] evil. Uh so but did you realize I did I
[01:34:42] certainly didn't realize really was the
[01:34:45] COVID vac
[01:34:47] the intentional lack of co letting
[01:34:49] people die rather than treating their
[01:34:51] symptoms which happened extensively
[01:34:53] across the United States. That's when I
[01:34:55] was like these people aren't just wrong
[01:34:58] they're like the worst people in the
[01:35:00] physicians are the worst people in the
[01:35:02] country. And for all the nurses, sweet
[01:35:05] nurses, I love nurses, sorry. Um, who
[01:35:08] like stood up and like this is wrong.
[01:35:10] Almost no doctors did. A few, a few,
[01:35:12] Mary Tally Bowden and people like that,
[01:35:14] but like not a lot. And I was just like,
[01:35:19] our doctors are evil. Not just mistaken,
[01:35:21] they're bad. Do you do you feel that?
[01:35:24] >> I I think a lot of them are. I mean,
[01:35:26] certain obviously not all of them,
[01:35:27] >> but not all of them. Right.
[01:35:29] >> Yeah. But but
[01:35:30] >> but like not 5%.
[01:35:32] >> Right. Exactly.
[01:35:33] >> We're like 70%. Well, and how about also
[01:35:36] there's abortion youth in Asia, CO,
[01:35:37] Uganda. But then also something that I
[01:35:41] don't think we should just drop and move
[01:35:43] on from because speaking of justice,
[01:35:45] there has not been justice for this,
[01:35:48] which is that um for years we had the
[01:35:51] entire medical establishment unanimously
[01:35:54] almost telling us that uh the best thing
[01:35:58] to do with a a young boy who's a little
[01:36:00] bit confused about his identity is to
[01:36:02] castrate him. And they were doing that.
[01:36:05] They were doing that to thousands of
[01:36:06] kids. They were chopping the breasts
[01:36:08] off. They're still doing it in some
[01:36:09] places. Uh but it was certainly
[01:36:11] happening at scale for a long time.
[01:36:13] They're chopping the breasts off of
[01:36:14] 15-year-old girls. And um it to your
[01:36:17] point, it was not just like a few
[01:36:19] doctors. It was a lot of doctors that
[01:36:21] were involved in it. A lot more doctors
[01:36:24] supported it and a lot of other doctors
[01:36:26] who maybe didn't like it, but they they
[01:36:28] didn't say a word. They did not speak up
[01:36:30] against it. This is this is some of the
[01:36:32] most insane, barbaric Frankenstein
[01:36:35] [ __ ] that the world has ever seen.
[01:36:39] Completely unjustifiable. No one can
[01:36:41] argue in defense of it. It's the one of
[01:36:43] the craziest things that's ever happened
[01:36:46] in the history of the planet.
[01:36:47] >> It's hard to hear this even cuz you're
[01:36:49] cuz you're right.
[01:36:50] >> Right. and and it was it just went on
[01:36:53] and the the the way that the the
[01:36:55] advocates for this the way that they
[01:36:58] argued in favor of it because obviously
[01:36:59] they couldn't make any substantive
[01:37:01] argument for castrating kids what they
[01:37:03] would always say is well look at all
[01:37:04] these medical establishments every
[01:37:06] single one of them is in favor of it and
[01:37:08] they were right they all were all of
[01:37:10] them
[01:37:10] >> what's so crazy is that um you know
[01:37:12] female genital mutilation which is you
[01:37:16] know universal in a few countries I
[01:37:17] think Somalia is one of them but um was
[01:37:21] very frowned upon by by feminists and
[01:37:24] also by me as a lover of women and it
[01:37:26] was a feature of debate on cable news
[01:37:28] shows like my most of my life as a cable
[01:37:31] news debater FGM you know we do a
[01:37:34] segment on FGM or whatever can you
[01:37:35] believe they're doing this and like
[01:37:37] nobody would defend it you know we'd
[01:37:39] look far and wide who will defend female
[01:37:42] genital a clinerectomy like who would
[01:37:45] defend that and you know our bookers
[01:37:48] tried really hard But there weren't
[01:37:49] many. All of a sudden, no one mentioned
[01:37:51] it again. And that's because they
[01:37:53] started doing it.
[01:37:55] >> Mhm.
[01:37:56] >> And it's just a reminder that you don't
[01:37:57] have to be Somali or a Nazi or any any
[01:38:00] specific group to participate in evil.
[01:38:03] Like this is a human problem. And the
[01:38:06] second they stop talking about how what
[01:38:09] other people did is bad, it's probably a
[01:38:11] tip that they're going to start doing it
[01:38:13] themselves, right?
[01:38:14] >> And it's it's also a lesson that it's
[01:38:16] very easy.
[01:38:18] I mean, look, nobody wants to admit it
[01:38:19] now, but
[01:38:22] at the height of the trans madness, and
[01:38:23] I I don't mean to talk about it totally
[01:38:24] in the past tense, like it's over. It's
[01:38:26] not,
[01:38:27] but we are past the height of it.
[01:38:29] >> It feels that
[01:38:30] >> um thank god, but at the height of it,
[01:38:34] no one wants to admit it now, but
[01:38:37] uh almost everyone on the left supported
[01:38:39] it, vocally so. And most people on the
[01:38:43] right did, you know, told themselves or
[01:38:46] insisted that it's not worth saying
[01:38:48] anything about. It's not that big of a
[01:38:49] deal.
[01:38:50] >> Totally right. That's exactly right.
[01:38:51] >> This is a this is a cultural war
[01:38:53] sideshow.
[01:38:55] >> Um and so what that tells us is that
[01:38:58] it's actually very easy for people to
[01:39:00] convince themselves to go along with the
[01:39:02] worst evils
[01:39:05] that are even conceivable.
[01:39:07] >> No, that's totally right. people. It
[01:39:08] It's very easy to convince yourself
[01:39:10] >> partisanship is not a good guide to
[01:39:12] that. I can as you just said yourself
[01:39:15] there a lot of people that are on our
[01:39:17] side like h I don't want to deal with
[01:39:19] that.
[01:39:20] >> Yeah. It's it's it's well because what
[01:39:22] you have are I mean usually this is not
[01:39:24] how it always works out but
[01:39:27] um you've got the really evil thing
[01:39:30] being promoted facilitated by the left
[01:39:34] whether it's abortion or euthanasia
[01:39:36] whatever else and then you've got
[01:39:38] cowardice on the right um
[01:39:41] refusing to speak up against it uh until
[01:39:44] it's very safe to do so you know and
[01:39:46] then and then then everybody does and
[01:39:48] that's why it's also been on the trans
[01:39:50] issue It's been interesting over the
[01:39:51] last like year, year and a half to have
[01:39:55] uh people coming out of the woodwork
[01:39:57] like very very boldly saying, you know,
[01:39:59] men uh men shouldn't be in women's
[01:40:02] sports like yeah,
[01:40:05] thanks for that. Like I could have we
[01:40:06] could have used that six years ago.
[01:40:08] >> Well, because this was one of those
[01:40:09] issues was you and a few other people
[01:40:11] just changed it. It wasn't Congress. It
[01:40:12] was you made your movie um and you
[01:40:15] wouldn't stop talking about it. And
[01:40:17] there were a few others but they were
[01:40:18] all in the commentariat. They were all
[01:40:20] like in the pundit class. It was not
[01:40:22] there was no like US senator who led the
[01:40:25] charge against this. Some followed in
[01:40:27] the end but it came from outside the
[01:40:28] system I guess is what I'm saying
[01:40:30] >> right.
[01:40:31] So that kind of shows
[01:40:36] among other things that the commentary
[01:40:38] which is insufferable. I even as I say
[01:40:41] this part of it does matter matters
[01:40:44] actually the opinions you see on all
[01:40:46] these podcasts like they over time do
[01:40:48] change things clearly.
[01:40:51] So to circle back to where we began,
[01:40:55] how is this current
[01:40:59] conflict, the intraright conflict
[01:41:03] resolved?
[01:41:06] [sighs and gasps]
[01:41:08] I don't I don't know. I don't I I if I
[01:41:11] knew how
[01:41:13] to do it, I would do it. Mhm.
[01:41:16] >> Um, if I if I knew how to solve it, if I
[01:41:18] knew how to bridge the divide and get
[01:41:20] everyone on the same side again,
[01:41:22] >> I would do it. I've tried in my own way.
[01:41:25] >> I know.
[01:41:26] >> I have not been successful. I have
[01:41:28] tried.
[01:41:28] >> You're You're like the the last person
[01:41:31] with a foot in each world. It's
[01:41:32] interesting
[01:41:33] >> and I and I I value that like this. This
[01:41:36] is for me. This is what people have to
[01:41:38] understand. I I try not to take it
[01:41:40] personally. the insults that I mean when
[01:41:42] you're in this world you get insulted
[01:41:43] all the time and you have to
[01:41:46] >> uh you have to you have to have thick
[01:41:48] skin. There are certain attacks against
[01:41:50] me that I should not admit this, but I
[01:41:52] will that do
[01:41:55] bother me. Like [laughter] they they do
[01:41:57] they do
[01:41:58] >> like what? Okay, you opened it. You
[01:41:59] opened the door. So,
[01:42:01] >> well, charges of well, when people say
[01:42:03] things that just aren't true,
[01:42:04] >> like and it happens all the time and
[01:42:06] it's it's the one thing I should be the
[01:42:07] most used to, I guess, that I am,
[01:42:09] >> but it just pisses me off really. Like,
[01:42:11] it it does because I
[01:42:13] >> I'm the opposite. It's only the true
[01:42:14] attacks that upset me.
[01:42:16] >> I [laughter]
[01:42:17] I don't know. Yeah, it it it shouldn't.
[01:42:19] But when people are I see someone, you
[01:42:21] know, make a claim, especially if it's
[01:42:23] someone, it doesn't have to be, but
[01:42:24] especially if it's someone who I kind of
[01:42:25] know and
[01:42:26] >> it's not, but saying something that says
[01:42:28] like it's not true. You're ascribing
[01:42:30] motives to me that it's just it's so
[01:42:32] it's just the exact opposite of what is
[01:42:34] actually true.
[01:42:36] >> And you're not even asking me. You're
[01:42:37] not reaching out. You're not giving me a
[01:42:39] chance to speak for myself.
[01:42:40] >> Who did that to you?
[01:42:41] >> And I I Here's the thing. I talked about
[01:42:44] loyalty before. I'm I'm so uh devoted to
[01:42:48] it that I I have people I consider
[01:42:51] friends who have been attacking me
[01:42:53] publicly
[01:42:54] and I still don't want to attack them.
[01:42:57] >> Welcome to my world.
[01:42:58] >> I I still don't want to be
[01:42:59] >> Do you feel like there's a connection
[01:43:00] between the degree to which you've
[01:43:01] helped someone and the vehements of the
[01:43:03] attack?
[01:43:05] >> I've noticed that in just in my life I'm
[01:43:07] not whining and I agree with you. It's I
[01:43:09] hate whin being attacked. I'm being
[01:43:11] threatened. Someone shot at my house.
[01:43:12] Like I'm never going to say that. Okay.
[01:43:15] Though it's true, but I have noticed
[01:43:17] that a lot of people I've helped are
[01:43:19] like on the front lines of attacking me
[01:43:21] or calling me names they know aren't
[01:43:23] aren't true. Nazi. And I feel like
[01:43:27] there's a connection. It's not random.
[01:43:29] It's like if you've helped someone,
[01:43:31] maybe they resent you for it.
[01:43:33] >> I I don't
[01:43:34] >> down.
[01:43:34] >> Yeah, there there might be some of that.
[01:43:36] I mean, there's there's a
[01:43:38] >> there's a lot of thing. First of all,
[01:43:39] everybody's very emotional. Like, and I
[01:43:42] try to keep that in mind, too. people I
[01:43:44] try not to do the thing that pisses me
[01:43:45] off so much people do it to me which is
[01:43:47] ascribing motives and say well you're
[01:43:48] really doing this because of this
[01:43:50] >> and and I I think sometimes people do a
[01:43:52] lot of people do have ulterior motives
[01:43:54] clearly
[01:43:55] >> and people are scheming and they're
[01:43:56] playing games and also by the way we
[01:43:58] live in a space like this is a business
[01:44:01] and uh and people do this for a living
[01:44:04] and so there's also just competitiveness
[01:44:06] that's right
[01:44:07] >> and that happens but then at the same
[01:44:08] time people also get just pissed off and
[01:44:11] they get emotional That's definitely
[01:44:13] true
[01:44:13] >> and there's and that's happening on all.
[01:44:14] So I recognize that like some of the so
[01:44:16] that's why some of the the some of the
[01:44:18] people that go after me publicly and
[01:44:19] people I consider friends and I'm like
[01:44:21] yeah you have my phone number you can
[01:44:22] call me and you're not and I try to like
[01:44:25] I do my maybe it's for my own sanity. I
[01:44:27] I try to be as charitable as possible
[01:44:29] and think like well they're just they're
[01:44:31] wrong but they're really angry and
[01:44:33] they've got this whole story about me
[01:44:35] that's not correct but that that's
[01:44:38] what's happening. They're just pissed
[01:44:39] off and I've been pissed off before and
[01:44:40] said things I regret. So, I I think I
[01:44:42] think a lot of that's happened to go
[01:44:43] back to the question of what to do about
[01:44:46] it.
[01:44:48] Well, I guess I guess I don't know why
[01:44:49] I'm going back to it because I don't
[01:44:50] have the answer. But,
[01:44:51] >> [laughter]
[01:44:51] >> uh I I think
[01:44:54] the only thing that can be done is for
[01:44:57] all of us, if you're on the right,
[01:45:01] to go back to some of the basics that we
[01:45:03] talked about at the beginning of the
[01:45:04] conversation, like what is it that we
[01:45:06] want?
[01:45:07] >> Exactly.
[01:45:07] >> What is it that we actually want?
[01:45:09] >> What's the real catechism here? What
[01:45:10] does it mean to be on the right?
[01:45:12] >> Exactly. What What are we It's the
[01:45:14] classic question about conservatives.
[01:45:15] What are you trying to conserve? It's a
[01:45:16] good question. You should be able to
[01:45:17] answer that. You should be able to
[01:45:18] answer that. What are you trying to
[01:45:19] conserve? And everybody needs to ask
[01:45:21] themselves that and come up with an
[01:45:22] answer. Come up write your list. Write
[01:45:24] it out if you have to. Whatever. Come up
[01:45:26] with your list.
[01:45:27] >> I'm going to do this. This is my This is
[01:45:28] my calling right here.
[01:45:30] >> And And everyone should have their list.
[01:45:33] And then we should compare notes. And if
[01:45:35] our lists match up, like we want the
[01:45:37] same things. We're trying to conserve
[01:45:38] and preserve the same things, then the
[01:45:41] only way forward is is with that is for
[01:45:43] us to realize that like let's let's
[01:45:46] reorient towards that. Make make that
[01:45:49] the goal and and remember that even when
[01:45:52] we disagree, we're going to have
[01:45:53] disagreements, but we're only
[01:45:55] disagreeing about how to do this thing
[01:45:57] that we both want done. And and uh and I
[01:46:02] think that's the way forward. Now, on
[01:46:03] the other hand,
[01:46:04] maybe you start looking at your list and
[01:46:06] you and you realize that I actually
[01:46:08] don't even want the same things as these
[01:46:09] as these people. Okay. Well, then we're
[01:46:11] not on the same side. And that's very
[01:46:12] clarifying, too. I think that there are
[01:46:13] people
[01:46:14] >> you feel I that's happening in my mind.
[01:46:16] I'm like I we don't have anything in
[01:46:18] common. Actually, I thought we did, but
[01:46:20] we don't. Um, is that happening to you?
[01:46:24] >> I
[01:46:26] there's certainly some of that. I I I
[01:46:27] think that there are definitely people
[01:46:29] who just want don't don't don't want the
[01:46:31] same things at all. they don't have the
[01:46:32] same fundamental goals. I think that's
[01:46:33] certainly happening and that's part
[01:46:35] that's part of the clarifying. That's
[01:46:36] part of the uh
[01:46:37] >> Is that bad or good?
[01:46:39] >> Well, clarity is good.
[01:46:41] >> Yeah,
[01:46:41] >> I think I think we need clarity. Um
[01:46:45] but for me, like I said, I the only
[01:46:47] person and I believe this wholly. I try
[01:46:50] to live by it. The only person who can
[01:46:52] speak to your intentions is you. The
[01:46:53] only person who can tell anyone what's
[01:46:55] in your mind is you. And so if someone
[01:46:57] says to me,
[01:46:58] >> that's why I try to interview people.
[01:46:59] [laughter]
[01:46:59] >> Right. So, exactly.
[01:47:01] >> You're allowed to speak for yourself.
[01:47:03] >> And so, I I've given my list of what it
[01:47:06] is that I want to conserve and and
[01:47:08] preserve.
[01:47:10] >> Uh,
[01:47:10] >> can you just can you in an abbreviated
[01:47:12] form just run through it really quick
[01:47:13] one more time because I think
[01:47:15] >> I agreed with it.
[01:47:16] >> Abbreviated is always in trouble for me.
[01:47:18] >> Well, no, you don't have to abbreviate,
[01:47:19] but you just say it again. Like what are
[01:47:21] the thing you're saying? There's left,
[01:47:23] right, what even I don't even know what
[01:47:24] that means anymore, but like people who
[01:47:27] share your values believe what
[01:47:31] >> they believe in objective truth.
[01:47:34] >> Yep.
[01:47:34] >> Okay. They they they believe in truth.
[01:47:37] Uh number one, that there that there is
[01:47:40] a that there is a truth.
[01:47:41] >> Okay. I'm going to write this down.
[01:47:43] >> And hold on. Hold on now.
[01:47:45] >> Okay. Objective truth.
[01:47:47] >> Yeah. Objective truth. whether or not
[01:47:50] there Can I just add one caveat? I'm not
[01:47:53] always convinced I know what the
[01:47:54] objective truth is. I've certainly been
[01:47:56] wrong, but I know it exists.
[01:47:58] >> Right. Exactly. And and that's and
[01:48:00] that's exactly the point. We can
[01:48:01] disagree about what the truth is. We're
[01:48:03] going to have those disagreements,
[01:48:04] >> right?
[01:48:04] >> But but we have to be able to agree that
[01:48:06] there is a truth,
[01:48:07] >> right,
[01:48:07] >> to begin with. And when you're talking
[01:48:08] to someone who's a moral relativist,
[01:48:10] they're on the left, you can't even
[01:48:11] agree on that. So there's no
[01:48:12] conversation to be had. We cannot even
[01:48:14] have a conversation. That's and that is
[01:48:15] the that's the problem. That's our
[01:48:17] problem in our culture. Um and even and
[01:48:19] even above the truth, the reason why
[01:48:21] there's an objective truth is that there
[01:48:23] is a that there is God that God that
[01:48:26] there is a a a God. There is God and um
[01:48:31] and he has designed the universe and
[01:48:36] everything and everybody in it. Um
[01:48:40] and that's the the source that's the
[01:48:42] wellspring of truth, you know, that
[01:48:44] that's why there is a truth because God
[01:48:45] designed it a certain way. And so it is
[01:48:47] like that's the the the fundamental
[01:48:49] barebones truth is that God has designed
[01:48:51] it this way that this is that this is
[01:48:53] God's universe and that is the truth. So
[01:48:57] um so I think I think
[01:48:59] >> that's number one.
[01:49:00] >> Yeah that's number one.
[01:49:02] >> And then what are we trying
[01:49:03] >> everything flows from that right?
[01:49:04] >> Everything flows from that. What are we
[01:49:06] try but in America as American
[01:49:10] >> conservatives
[01:49:11] >> what are we trying to conserve? We're
[01:49:14] trying to conserve American identity,
[01:49:17] our national identity. We're trying to
[01:49:19] conserve the institution
[01:49:22] of the family
[01:49:25] uh which is the the foundation
[01:49:28] of the country and of of civilization.
[01:49:32] We're trying to conserve the institution
[01:49:33] of the marriage which is the foundation
[01:49:35] of the family. So this is the foundation
[01:49:37] of the foundation
[01:49:39] >> which is the foundation of American
[01:49:41] identity,
[01:49:42] >> right?
[01:49:43] And
[01:49:44] we're trying to conserve all those
[01:49:46] things. And then and then at a broader
[01:49:49] level, we're trying to conserve western
[01:49:50] civilization itself,
[01:49:52] >> which grows from. So if if you were to
[01:49:56] sum it up, you could say objective truth
[01:49:58] derived from a belief that this is all
[01:50:01] created. We are not the creators.
[01:50:03] >> Exactly.
[01:50:04] and
[01:50:07] the the family the family unit husband
[01:50:09] wife children which is the basis of all
[01:50:12] human civilization.
[01:50:14] So objective truth family.
[01:50:17] >> Yeah. I I think I think that's
[01:50:19] >> if I were writing this on my hand for
[01:50:20] the test. Okay.
[01:50:22] >> Yeah.
[01:50:22] >> Probably in here so the teacher couldn't
[01:50:24] see it. It would just be objective truth
[01:50:25] family.
[01:50:26] >> Yeah. And I would also put national
[01:50:28] identity for if we're talking about
[01:50:30] American conservatives which is what
[01:50:31] we're talking about. But then the
[01:50:32] question becomes like what's that?
[01:50:35] >> Yeah. Well, that's a and and
[01:50:38] that's also a debate in a sense. I think
[01:50:41] there are some basic things but but uh
[01:50:43] but again that's like okay as long as we
[01:50:46] agree
[01:50:46] >> that we need one
[01:50:47] >> that we need that we yeah we cannot so
[01:50:51] uh we have a culture right we need to
[01:50:54] have a culture and multiculturalism
[01:50:56] cannot be the cult that's not a culture
[01:50:57] that's
[01:50:58] >> there has to be a unifying
[01:51:00] set of beliefs or customs
[01:51:03] that keep the country from breaking
[01:51:05] apart otherwise it will break apart
[01:51:07] >> so and that's the point so the things
[01:51:08] there if He
[01:51:11] if someone looks at that like that's I'm
[01:51:13] speaking for myself and not just myself
[01:51:14] I think a lot but but that's that's my
[01:51:17] northstar
[01:51:18] and if you look at that and you say well
[01:51:20] I want the same things like I I I so I'm
[01:51:22] fighting for it. Um then you are on my
[01:51:26] side period like we we are on the same
[01:51:29] side and and we'll have a lot of
[01:51:30] arguments again about how to do that how
[01:51:34] to achieve that. We have a lot of
[01:51:36] arguments about it and those could be
[01:51:38] like fruitful arguments. Those don't
[01:51:39] those don't have to be angry, nasty,
[01:51:41] personal arguments. They could just be
[01:51:43] discussions uh you know as as as as
[01:51:46] adults and we'll do that but we're on
[01:51:48] the same side. However,
[01:51:50] if you look at that and you say I don't
[01:51:53] you know well I don't need I don't
[01:51:54] believe in any of that. Like I don't I
[01:51:57] don't believe in God. I don't like
[01:51:58] truth. Who you know we all have our own
[01:51:59] truth. The family I think the family is
[01:52:01] like you know marriage doesn't matter.
[01:52:03] We don't need the family. if you're and
[01:52:05] a lot of people feel that way. So fine,
[01:52:07] you're allowed to feel that way. We're
[01:52:09] not on the same side at all. No matter
[01:52:12] what else you believe. I I and and then
[01:52:14] I might agree with you on then you might
[01:52:16] go on and from there and say, "Yeah, but
[01:52:18] I really think that gun rights are
[01:52:19] important and I think we need to
[01:52:20] restrict immigration and I want to
[01:52:23] abolish the income tax or whatever." I'd
[01:52:25] agree with you on those points, but
[01:52:26] we're not fundamentally on the same
[01:52:28] side.
[01:52:28] >> It's so smart. I I don't want to blow
[01:52:30] anyone's mind, but I you know travel a
[01:52:32] lot, talk to people for a living. You
[01:52:34] would be amazed by the people I know who
[01:52:37] agree with you vehemently on and
[01:52:39] sincerely on those two points and
[01:52:41] they're not all on the on the right
[01:52:45] at all, which is kind of interesting.
[01:52:47] So, it does feel like this is a there's
[01:52:50] like a true realignment happening now. I
[01:52:52] just know in my own life the people who
[01:52:55] reach out to me in some cases are people
[01:52:58] you would expect. In some cases they're
[01:52:59] not at all people you would expect. And
[01:53:01] they're just they're hearing the same
[01:53:02] music and they're motivated by the same
[01:53:04] impulses. And that is one a belief that
[01:53:08] we are living in a world we didn't
[01:53:10] create. These rules aren't ours. It's
[01:53:13] it's basically the the nature argument
[01:53:15] like you you can't ignore nature because
[01:53:17] you're not in charge of it. You cannot
[01:53:18] ignore natural law because you didn't
[01:53:20] make it because God made it. A and B, in
[01:53:24] the end, your only true protection is
[01:53:26] your family and your deepest connection
[01:53:28] is to your family and that needs to be
[01:53:31] protected above all, which I think is a
[01:53:34] variety of what you were just saying.
[01:53:36] The people who reached out to me who who
[01:53:38] believe that, man, it's it would blow
[01:53:42] your mind. So I guess what I would say
[01:53:44] is it feels like a lot of our politics
[01:53:46] is artificial. It's inorganic. It was
[01:53:49] these divisions in some cases are, you
[01:53:51] know, are real. In some cases they were
[01:53:53] created in order to
[01:53:56] get us to not see that we have a lot in
[01:53:58] common with other people. Does that make
[01:54:01] sense?
[01:54:02] >> I think so. Look, and if someone
[01:54:04] the words left and right are labels that
[01:54:07] we put on on things.
[01:54:09] >> Well, people have always said that, but
[01:54:10] I never really believed it.
[01:54:11] that's [ __ ] But
[01:54:13] >> it's just a it's a way of categorizing
[01:54:15] and organizing things so we can speak
[01:54:17] about them coherently.
[01:54:19] >> Um
[01:54:21] but sometimes the labels that we you've
[01:54:23] you know we have to we have to
[01:54:27] uh shift it over. There might be people
[01:54:29] who so but like anyone who you've talked
[01:54:32] to who we would say is on the left who
[01:54:34] agrees with all that well then I would
[01:54:37] say they're not on the left.
[01:54:38] >> Well I agree. you know, they they might
[01:54:40] they might they might even think they
[01:54:42] still are, but they're not. Um, and so
[01:54:46] they're uh they're they're over on this
[01:54:47] side and uh you can kind of call it
[01:54:50] whatever you want. I'm saying right
[01:54:52] conservative.
[01:54:53] We could come up with any team name we
[01:54:55] want.
[01:54:56] >> I guess what I'm saying is your side is
[01:54:58] bigger than you think it is.
[01:54:59] >> Yeah. I for for the during the when
[01:55:03] we're talking about the trans issue and
[01:55:05] I've sort of talked about the teams,
[01:55:06] what I've come to what I've come to call
[01:55:09] the side that's against all the trans
[01:55:11] madness is team sanity, you know.
[01:55:13] >> Yeah. Um it's just we're for sanity like
[01:55:16] on this issue or sane people and
[01:55:20] f fully acknowledging that on that issue
[01:55:23] there were people who uh I don't agree
[01:55:26] with unlike anything else but are sane
[01:55:29] on this I can think of some of them I
[01:55:32] used to have this woman on oh I really
[01:55:35] liked her I don't think she ever liked
[01:55:37] me at all I can't remember her name she
[01:55:39] was a radical lesbian feminist and every
[01:55:43] she always come into the studio on the
[01:55:44] trans issue years ago and she was like I
[01:55:48] could I could hear her thinking I can't
[01:55:50] believe I'm in the same room [laughter]
[01:55:51] as this monster but we were so aligned
[01:55:54] on it and I always wondered like why did
[01:55:58] she care so I mean she we must have been
[01:56:00] more aligned than either of us realized
[01:56:01] if she cared that much about it right
[01:56:05] >> uh
[01:56:05] >> you must have dealt with a million
[01:56:06] people like this
[01:56:07] >> yeah yeah and this is a conversation I
[01:56:09] would have sometimes with the because I
[01:56:11] it's very strange bedfellows I would
[01:56:12] find myself aligned on that issue with
[01:56:15] some feminists like left far-left
[01:56:17] feminists,
[01:56:17] >> but the the radical ones.
[01:56:20] >> Yeah. Um, but the the point I would try
[01:56:23] to make to them, I think mostly
[01:56:25] unsuccessfully, is that okay, if you if
[01:56:28] we agree on this, then I I I think like
[01:56:31] if you can see the truth on this, then I
[01:56:33] think we should agree on a lot more. You
[01:56:35] know, I I think
[01:56:35] >> Well, that's my instinct, too,
[01:56:37] >> right? Um,
[01:56:38] >> what would they say?
[01:56:40] Well, for me, I I'm not the guy to make
[01:56:42] an argument to feminist. They're not
[01:56:43] [laughter] going to listen to me. There
[01:56:45] might be someone who can um be kind of
[01:56:48] the
[01:56:48] >> I think you could convert a few Matt
[01:56:50] Walsh.
[01:56:50] >> I I I don't know. It's my my track
[01:56:53] record would say otherwise, but uh but
[01:56:57] the point is that like the argument I
[01:57:00] would make to them is that actually I
[01:57:02] know you call yourself a feminist. The
[01:57:04] reason why we have this problem is
[01:57:05] because of feminism. uh feminism is the
[01:57:08] actually the root of this problem.
[01:57:10] >> And so if you agree with me on this then
[01:57:12] I think really you are critiquing
[01:57:14] feminism so you're not a feminist
[01:57:18] get it together come over here and that
[01:57:20] they didn't find that that was that was
[01:57:21] mansplaining you know they weren't
[01:57:22] >> that was definitely they they weren't
[01:57:24] like ready to run to the patriarchy
[01:57:26] after that. No, no,
[01:57:27] >> that's a shame. So, here's my last
[01:57:30] question.
[01:57:31] And again, it begins where we began,
[01:57:34] which is the fact that you're like at
[01:57:36] the center of all of this. I really do
[01:57:37] think you're the last person on the
[01:57:40] right, you know, the official, you know,
[01:57:41] well-known official podcaster, right,
[01:57:44] who has, you know, a foot in two camps.
[01:57:47] And so, it's just the pressure on you.
[01:57:49] I've just noticed it, uh, has been
[01:57:51] almost unbelievable. and you've bore up
[01:57:54] under it so impressively. But how do you
[01:57:58] keep yourself from becoming a hater
[01:58:01] when you're under just relentless
[01:58:04] assault? And not just your views, but
[01:58:05] your motives, your character, when
[01:58:07] people you really like who are your
[01:58:09] friends are denouncing you. And most
[01:58:10] people live an entire lifetime without
[01:58:12] that experience. It's an unusual
[01:58:14] experience and it can drive some like
[01:58:17] totally crazy like they become foaming
[01:58:19] at the mouth haters. How have you
[01:58:20] avoided that?
[01:58:23] Uh maybe the honest answer is I have not
[01:58:25] avoided it. Well, [laughter]
[01:58:28] but I but I but I but I think that uh I
[01:58:30] mean look the the real the correct
[01:58:33] answer is prayer. I mean you know you
[01:58:35] have to have a rich prayer life.
[01:58:37] >> Yes.
[01:58:38] >> And um
[01:58:40] I I I do have a prayer life. I don't
[01:58:41] think it's as rich as it should be. I
[01:58:43] think and I think that uh uh I think
[01:58:46] like a lot of people you kind of go
[01:58:47] through waves. I go through waves and
[01:58:48] and and then I I go through and here's
[01:58:50] what happens with me and I think it's
[01:58:51] probably relatable is that
[01:58:55] when you're really frustrated and
[01:58:57] stressed out and things are not really
[01:58:58] working out how you want them to. Um
[01:59:03] your kind of prayer life can dry up too
[01:59:04] and it start because that starts feeling
[01:59:06] everything just starts feeling kind of
[01:59:07] dry. Everything starts feeling like
[01:59:10] >> nothing's working. No one's listening.
[01:59:11] You feel frustrated. no one in your life
[01:59:14] is like hearing what you're saying and
[01:59:15] you start to feel like God is not
[01:59:16] hearing you either
[01:59:18] >> and it's just this kind of frustration
[01:59:19] and then and then it snowballs, you
[01:59:21] know, and then it becomes a it's a
[01:59:23] self-fulfilling prophecy because now
[01:59:25] your everything's feeling everything
[01:59:27] feels kind of dried up and frustrated
[01:59:29] >> and so that's what happens with your
[01:59:30] prayer life
[01:59:31] >> and then everything gets worse because
[01:59:33] of that. Um and so those are the the
[01:59:36] moments where you have to be very
[01:59:37] intentional and say I'm really annoyed
[01:59:40] and frustrated. I don't feel like
[01:59:41] praying. saying, "I don't even know if
[01:59:42] God's listening. He's always listening."
[01:59:44] But in a frustrated moment, you feel
[01:59:46] like he's not. Um, and that's when you
[01:59:48] have to realize that and then reorient
[01:59:51] yourself and become, you know, and for
[01:59:53] me when I have those moments, I've I've
[01:59:55] found that just being more structured.
[01:59:57] Like sometimes you have to like anything
[01:59:58] in life that that is good, you have to
[02:00:00] kind of force yourself to do it.
[02:00:02] Sometimes you have to get into a habit.
[02:00:03] >> What's your structure if if you don't
[02:00:05] mind?
[02:00:06] >> Well, I think there's you set up a a
[02:00:08] time for prayer in the morning. like you
[02:00:10] said, just times. This is my this is my
[02:00:13] time when I'm going to pray, you know.
[02:00:15] >> Yes.
[02:00:16] >> And hopefully it's multiple times a day.
[02:00:19] Um but and when you have a really rich
[02:00:22] prayer life
[02:00:24] and you're you're in a good flow, it's
[02:00:26] like you're you're in a constant prayer.
[02:00:28] It's like a it's a constant it's a
[02:00:30] constant state of going to God even if
[02:00:33] you're not on your knees.
[02:00:34] >> Rejoice in everything. Never stop
[02:00:35] praying.
[02:00:36] >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I think that, you
[02:00:38] know, things like your your physical
[02:00:40] posture when you're when you're praying,
[02:00:41] that that can matter. And especially if
[02:00:43] you're if you're going through a if
[02:00:45] you're going through a dry spell in your
[02:00:46] prayer life, I think like actually
[02:00:48] kneeling, being on your knees,
[02:00:52] >> um does matter. And you can pray without
[02:00:54] being on your knees, but it can kind of
[02:00:56] help to orient you in the right way. And
[02:01:00] it's kind of your your body telling your
[02:01:02] mind something which is that you are
[02:01:04] submitting yourself like you're on your
[02:01:06] knees.
[02:01:07] >> You are submitting yourself to a power
[02:01:08] that is greater than you. That's why
[02:01:10] you're doing this. And uh so you're
[02:01:12] reminding yourself that there is someone
[02:01:14] greater than you who you are appealing
[02:01:16] to. Um and so I think stuff like that
[02:01:19] can can help also.
[02:01:22] >> How much time do you spend on X?
[02:01:24] >> Too much.
[02:01:26] >> Meaning
[02:01:27] >> like way too much. I I don't know
[02:01:29] >> what effect does that have.
[02:01:31] >> Uh not not good. I mean it's also hard
[02:01:35] for me because it's my job and not like
[02:01:38] my job requ.
[02:01:43] But part of the job is to be clued in
[02:01:46] and I'm also creating content every day.
[02:01:47] I do a show five days a four days a week
[02:01:49] now. Um
[02:01:52] and so this is where the conversation's
[02:01:53] happening. This is where all the con all
[02:01:55] the sort of content is. All the things I
[02:01:56] want to talk about.
[02:01:57] >> Yeah. Um, I also use it as kind of a,
[02:02:01] you know, it's it's like I'll I'll start
[02:02:03] a conversation on X and and then I'll
[02:02:04] talk about it on the show and it's just
[02:02:06] kind of this feeds off of each other
[02:02:07] thing.
[02:02:09] Um, but the problem and all that is good
[02:02:12] and I'm glad that it's there for that
[02:02:14] reason, but the problem is this stuff
[02:02:17] sucks you in. Like it just sucks you in.
[02:02:20] And um
[02:02:22] >> cuz I bet I'm just guessing you're not
[02:02:24] into say pornography or cocaine or
[02:02:26] >> Not at all. Right.
[02:02:28] >> I knew that.
[02:02:29] >> 0%.
[02:02:30] >> So, like for a man like you, you're not,
[02:02:33] you know, you don't you're not ruled by
[02:02:35] your addictions, but do you feel like ex
[02:02:38] >> Well, it's weird. Here's the weird thing
[02:02:39] for me.
[02:02:41] It
[02:02:43] the the amount of time I spend on it
[02:02:45] sometimes would would seem like an
[02:02:46] addict. However, when I go on vacation
[02:02:50] and I say, "I'm I'm leaving. I'm not
[02:02:51] going to be doing a show. I'm I'm I'm
[02:02:53] out of the I'm going to be out of I'm
[02:02:54] not paying attention to anything." and I
[02:02:56] go on [snorts] vacation.
[02:02:58] I put the phone down. I have zero desire
[02:03:02] to pick it up. I I I I don't even find
[02:03:04] myself like, "Ah, I got to find out
[02:03:05] what's happening." I put it down. I'm on
[02:03:07] vacation. I have no desire. In fact,
[02:03:09] it's the opposite. When I come back, I
[02:03:11] have to force myself to like get into
[02:03:14] this again. And it's it's almost it's
[02:03:16] ridiculous. I'm like forcing myself to
[02:03:17] tweak because I got to get in the flow
[02:03:19] to to do the job. And um so that tells
[02:03:23] me it's not really an addiction.
[02:03:24] something even worse, I guess, because
[02:03:28] when I have the chance to walk away from
[02:03:29] it, I so eagerly do. It's like my soul
[02:03:31] telling me like you got this this is
[02:03:33] what I actually long for is not this.
[02:03:36] >> I think that's a really good sign.
[02:03:38] >> I I think it's a good sign. Um
[02:03:40] >> do you feel like when you Well, I'll
[02:03:42] tell you how I feel when I go on it
[02:03:44] because I know so many of the people who
[02:03:45] are tweeting their opinions, it's like
[02:03:47] seeing all of your acquaintances naked.
[02:03:51] I feel like people reveal so much about
[02:03:53] themselves and it's like, "Wow, you
[02:03:55] don't look great naked." I mean, I never
[02:03:57] really thought about you naked, but now
[02:03:58] that I can see it, you should put some
[02:03:59] clothes back on. That's the feeling I
[02:04:01] have every time I go on there.
[02:04:03] >> That is a that's that's an interesting
[02:04:05] way of putting it. And I think that's
[02:04:07] true. I mean, that's it used to be,
[02:04:10] right? If you were like a prominent
[02:04:12] person in some field,
[02:04:15] uh, if you ever gave your opinions
[02:04:18] publicly, depending on the field, you
[02:04:20] might never give your opinion publicly,
[02:04:22] but if you ever did, it was like in a
[02:04:24] structured, it was a very intentional
[02:04:26] kind of way. And
[02:04:28] >> I try and stick to that if
[02:04:29] >> and and now and now we have it used to
[02:04:31] be like it's hard for people for kids
[02:04:33] these days to realize this
[02:04:35] >> but it used to be that we would have all
[02:04:36] these like famous people and celebrities
[02:04:39] >> and most of them we never knew what they
[02:04:41] thought about anything. We had no clue
[02:04:43] what they thought. We didn't even know
[02:04:44] what their personalities were.
[02:04:47] >> We only saw them because they were
[02:04:48] throwing a football or because they were
[02:04:50] acting in a thing or whatever.
[02:04:52] And now yeah we just know everyone's
[02:04:55] opinion up to date on every Who ever
[02:04:57] thought that? I mean, if you told me 10
[02:05:00] years ago that like all the people in
[02:05:02] charge were thoroughly benal and
[02:05:04] conventional at best, like they had
[02:05:06] nothing interesting to say. They never
[02:05:08] thought about anything ever. Like
[02:05:10] Hillary Clinton had not a single thought
[02:05:11] in her head. And that some guy called
[02:05:14] Orin McIntyre, whoever that is, would
[02:05:16] turn out to be, you know, or you or like
[02:05:19] all these people who 10 years ago were
[02:05:21] not they're very far from what we might
[02:05:24] think of as a public intellectual. All
[02:05:25] of a sudden they're purely through the
[02:05:28] force of their ideas and the clarity of
[02:05:29] their expression were kind of defining
[02:05:31] the terms like that is a huge change.
[02:05:34] It's totally disempowered
[02:05:37] the puba class and it's given rise to
[02:05:40] this like genuinely interesting bubbling
[02:05:45] conversation like at best. Do you feel
[02:05:47] that?
[02:05:48] >> Yeah, I do. Which is why I mean we talk
[02:05:49] about social media, talk about X and
[02:05:53] uh I don't want to talk as though I
[02:05:57] think it's a it's a overall like nothing
[02:06:00] but a negative because I do think it
[02:06:01] allows
[02:06:02] >> Oh, totally. No, no, it's a mixed
[02:06:03] blessing for sure.
[02:06:04] >> Yeah. So, and that and that is true.
[02:06:06] like it allows and it it obviously has
[02:06:08] created a situation where the
[02:06:11] institutions
[02:06:12] that used to control the conversation
[02:06:14] completely
[02:06:16] now now don't control it at all. And
[02:06:19] >> they're like they've shown that they're
[02:06:21] just not impressive. That like in the
[02:06:23] true and fabled marketplace of ideas,
[02:06:27] they're like a rumage sale actually. And
[02:06:31] >> yeah, they have nothing to say.
[02:06:32] >> No, BUT LIKE WHO WOULD BUY THAT CRAP?
[02:06:33] It's just not once we see it in its
[02:06:35] entirety, once the mystique has been
[02:06:37] stripped away, they have nothing to
[02:06:40] offer. Like they're just totally
[02:06:43] pedestrian. And then these R I mean, do
[02:06:45] you ever see random Twitter accounts?
[02:06:47] You have no idea who this is. It's not
[02:06:49] someone who's anyone's ever heard of
[02:06:51] making a point that's so profound that
[02:06:53] like you can't get it out of your head.
[02:06:54] Does that ever happen to you?
[02:06:55] >> Oh, definitely. I was just thinking I
[02:06:57] saw I don't remember who the guy was,
[02:06:58] but yeah, I read it I read a tweet a
[02:07:00] couple days ago and it was this lengthy
[02:07:01] like really well-written analysis of
[02:07:04] something. I can't even remember, but
[02:07:07] it's like a random Twitter. I don't know
[02:07:08] [laughter] who that guy is.
[02:07:09] >> Like what?
[02:07:10] >> And uh in a way it's kind of sad cuz I
[02:07:13] read that I'm like, well, I don't know.
[02:07:14] This guy's a philosopher. He should be
[02:07:16] in a different age.
[02:07:17] >> No, but affirmative action has kept them
[02:07:18] all out. So this is what this is where
[02:07:20] they went. So you're like, well, you
[02:07:22] know, we don't have a meritocracy
[02:07:23] anymore and the smartest, most
[02:07:24] impressive people literally can't get
[02:07:26] jobs or grants or into college. So like,
[02:07:28] what are they doing? And they're sitting
[02:07:30] [laughter] at home tweeting.
[02:07:32] >> Yeah. Tweeting these like morsels of
[02:07:34] incredible wisdom in some cases.
[02:07:36] >> But you know, truly
[02:07:37] >> Yeah. And and the and but this is, as
[02:07:39] you said, mixed blessing. The problem is
[02:07:41] that in between the morsels of great
[02:07:43] wisdom, you've got nothing but just slop
[02:07:46] and
[02:07:47] >> and all this, right? And so the best
[02:07:49] thing we can do is
[02:07:52] things like keep keep your prayer life
[02:07:54] alive and um control. You have to have
[02:07:58] self-control in and in in how you
[02:08:00] interact with this. One of the worst
[02:08:02] things
[02:08:03] and I everyone does this. I do it. I
[02:08:07] think it's the worst habit that almost
[02:08:10] everyone has now.
[02:08:11] >> I'm sure I do it too then if it's a bad
[02:08:12] habit. Uh the first thing you do when
[02:08:16] you wake up in the morning is check your
[02:08:18] phone.
[02:08:19] >> I don't do that.
[02:08:19] >> Well, then you're you're in better shape
[02:08:22] than I am and mo and a lot of people.
[02:08:24] >> Never.
[02:08:25] >> And that's
[02:08:25] >> that is like the wor I used to that's
[02:08:28] like having blueberry pancakes for
[02:08:29] breakfast, which was a habit that was
[02:08:31] very hard for me to break. But once I
[02:08:34] did it, I realized that framed my whole
[02:08:37] day in the wrong the wrong way. Have you
[02:08:39] ever started the day with blueberry
[02:08:40] pancakes?
[02:08:41] >> I have. You can't get past it.
[02:08:44] Everything in your day is defined by
[02:08:47] blueberry pancakes.
[02:08:48] >> Why? Because you're longing for the
[02:08:50] >> Yeah. You're hungry all day. You feel
[02:08:52] shitty. You're lethargic. Like, just
[02:08:54] don't eat till noon and everything is
[02:08:56] better. But I grew up in a blueberry
[02:08:58] pancake world. Like 100%. Blueberry
[02:09:00] pancakes and a and a cigarette. And
[02:09:02] that's not a good way to start the day.
[02:09:05] And I feel like social media are even
[02:09:07] worse than that.
[02:09:07] >> Just do the cigarette. Don't do the
[02:09:08] pancakes. That is I I can't say this on
[02:09:12] on that is still a great way to start
[02:09:14] the day. I don't care what anybody says.
[02:09:16] It's just a fact.
[02:09:17] >> Yeah. I But I
[02:09:18] >> But whatever. Sorry. Totally kidding.
[02:09:20] >> The the uh Yeah. Starting the day by
[02:09:23] looking at your phone is so horrifically
[02:09:26] bad. I do it all the time.
[02:09:29] >> Actually,
[02:09:30] >> I do. I I shouldn't.
[02:09:32] >> That's like the one thing you can't just
[02:09:34] don't do that. That's easy. Just like
[02:09:36] cuz you use it as your alarm, right?
[02:09:38] >> Yeah. my phone. Yeah,
[02:09:39] >> of course everybody does. I do too.
[02:09:41] >> We don't allow phone usage in the
[02:09:43] bedroom except for the alarm. That's
[02:09:44] like ironclad rule. Just get up, get a
[02:09:47] cup of coffee, get your face in a Bible
[02:09:50] or just stare out the window, kiss your
[02:09:52] dogs, anything but that.
[02:09:54] >> I I totally agree. I ju just in fact
[02:09:57] just this morning I woke up,
[02:10:01] first thing I did is I checked my phone
[02:10:03] and I went on X the f and it was just in
[02:10:05] my feed. They just have it. Like the
[02:10:07] first thing I read, I just opened my
[02:10:08] eyes 10 30 seconds ago. The first thing
[02:10:10] I read was like in my feed something
[02:10:12] popped up and it was like Matt Walsh is
[02:10:14] a coward and then whatever. [laughter]
[02:10:17] I'm starting my day with that. Like the
[02:10:19] first thing that enters my eyeball.
[02:10:21] >> What are you doing? [laughter]
[02:10:23] >> I don't know. And then I put my phone
[02:10:25] down. I'm like, why did I do that? Why
[02:10:26] >> the hotel room though, right?
[02:10:28] >> The hotel room. Yeah.
[02:10:28] >> Because there's no chick there. That
[02:10:30] that's that's why it's so important to
[02:10:31] be married. That that is Yeah, that's
[02:10:34] true. Also,
[02:10:35] >> right?
[02:10:36] >> Well, you and there's no kids like
[02:10:38] >> totally.
[02:10:39] >> Yeah.
[02:10:41] >> Matt Walsh, um some of us, probably not
[02:10:44] a huge group, but some of us, just
[02:10:45] kidding, really appreciate what you're
[02:10:47] doing and your uh clear thinking and
[02:10:50] your self-control
[02:10:53] um and especially your summation of what
[02:10:55] actually matters. So, thank you very
[02:10:57] much. Appreciate it. Thank you.
[02:11:03] You don't need to be an economist to see
[02:11:04] what's happening. The dollar is in
[02:11:06] trouble. It's getting weaker. It's sad,
[02:11:08] but we're not in charge of it. So, we
[02:11:10] have to respond appropriately in ways to
[02:11:12] protect our families. When paper money
[02:11:14] dies, it's going to be replaced by
[02:11:16] programmable digital currency or gold.
[02:11:18] Gold survives. The same Americans who
[02:11:20] think they're protecting themselves with
[02:11:22] gold are the ones getting ripped off by
[02:11:23] big gold dealers. After we left
[02:11:25] corporate media, we got offered tens of
[02:11:26] millions of dollars to promote gold
[02:11:28] companies. How'd they get the money to
[02:11:29] spend that much on marketing? because
[02:11:30] they're scamming their customers. We
[02:11:32] didn't want anything to do with that.
[02:11:33] So, we sought an honest broker and
[02:11:34] together we formed a precious metals
[02:11:36] company that you can actually trust.
[02:11:38] It's called Battalion Metals. At
[02:11:39] battalion metals.com, we publish actual
[02:11:42] spot prices. We're totally transparent
[02:11:45] about the vig what we take and we treat
[02:11:48] everyone with honesty. So, if you've
[02:11:50] been watching what's happening, you know
[02:11:51] it's not just about money. It's about
[02:11:52] sovereignty and holding something that
[02:11:54] endures and cannot be manipulated or
[02:11:56] taken from you. So, if you've been
[02:11:57] waiting for the right time to act, this
[02:11:58] is it. Visit battalionmedals.com.
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