Saudi Arabia just said NO to Israel & the US | Sharmine Narwani

[00:00:00] The United States is trying to shape the [00:00:02] Middle East in the image it wants. From [00:00:05] pushing through its plan for Gaz at the [00:00:07] United Nations to pulling Syria and [00:00:09] Saudi Arabia closer into its orbit, our [00:00:12] anti-war President Donald Trump may soon [00:00:15] get the Middle East that he wants. But [00:00:18] he won't get it all on his own way. [00:00:20] Forces from Iran to Yemen and beyond [00:00:23] still oppose Trump's plans and continue [00:00:26] to fight against it. All the while, [00:00:28] Israel continues to expand its control [00:00:30] of Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, and [00:00:33] beyond. And here to talk to me today [00:00:35] about the world's most tumultuous region [00:00:37] is Charmaine Narwani. She is a [00:00:40] journalist and political analyst who [00:00:42] serves as the editor of The Cradle. [00:00:45] Welcome to the show, Charmaine. [00:00:48] >> Thank you, Manar. It's really good to do [00:00:49] this again. [00:00:51] >> Yes, always good to hear from you, [00:00:52] Charmaine. I always learn so much from [00:00:54] you and your team at the Cradle. Israel [00:00:57] has been bombing Lebanon almost on a [00:00:59] daily basis. They've [00:01:01] >> committed such horrific crimes there and [00:01:03] this is such a major form of [00:01:05] intimidation because [00:01:08] not really responded to Israel in this [00:01:11] provocation. So even as the major powers [00:01:15] at the UN seem to be uh going along with [00:01:18] Trump's plan, his Gaza plan and the [00:01:21] ceasefire, Israel continues to press [00:01:23] forward. I mean just yesterday the IDF [00:01:25] attacked UN peacekeepers inside of [00:01:27] Lebanon. They are opening fire at them [00:01:30] from close range from their positions [00:01:33] occupying southern Lebanon. I mean it it [00:01:35] appears that Israel has total immunity [00:01:37] from criticism and censure because of [00:01:40] its powerful backers in Washington. So [00:01:43] can you talk to us more about these [00:01:45] developments inside of South Lebanon and [00:01:47] what do you think is next? [00:01:49] Well, I I mean, I think almost from the [00:01:52] get-go when the ceasefire happened, took [00:01:55] place with Lebanon late last year, um [00:01:58] you saw violations. Um Israel escalates. [00:02:02] It it seeks to groom and tame people to [00:02:07] accept its violations, its bad behavior. [00:02:11] Um we've written extensively about this [00:02:13] at the cradle uh that you know Israel [00:02:17] always crosses a little line then [00:02:20] crosses a bigger line and then crosses [00:02:22] you know eventually making its way to [00:02:25] cross all red lines. Um I mean one thing [00:02:27] we've learned from this is a ceasefire [00:02:30] with Israel a a negotiated ceasefire [00:02:33] with Israel is not worth the paper it's [00:02:35] printed on. If you look at what [00:02:38] transpired after the 12-day war between [00:02:40] Iran and Israel, um there was no [00:02:43] negotiated settlement. There was just a [00:02:46] seizing of fire on the spot. Correct. So [00:02:51] there was when I say there was no [00:02:53] negotiated settlement. So what happens [00:02:54] is the Israelis uh you know they you [00:02:58] have a settlement in writing. Okay. And [00:03:02] you know what the rules-based order is? [00:03:04] The international rules-based order that [00:03:05] the west has been talking about for well [00:03:07] over a decade. It just means um we can [00:03:13] operate differently than you can. It's [00:03:16] not they never talk about a law- based [00:03:17] order because law is very clear-cut. All [00:03:20] UN member states, all nation states have [00:03:23] to abide by one set of laws. A [00:03:25] rules-based order just means um [00:03:28] different sets of um operating for [00:03:32] different actors. And you know in in [00:03:35] this case if it's if you have a written [00:03:37] negotiation [00:03:38] and your adversary meaning Israel's [00:03:41] adversary uh violates it even in the [00:03:44] slightest right they will point to that [00:03:47] and make a big deal about it. But they [00:03:50] violated and the backers of these [00:03:51] agreements, the United States, will [00:03:54] never call Israel out. You know, in in [00:03:57] uh there was a bit of an uproar in [00:03:59] Lebanon [00:04:01] uh on on uh Monday, I think it was, when [00:04:06] the Lebanese army commander commander [00:04:09] Rudolph Ho, he um basically called [00:04:16] Israel the enemy, right? in in his [00:04:19] discussions. Um he [00:04:23] did he write a letter? He he he oh he [00:04:25] issued the Lebanese army issued a [00:04:27] statement on Sunday um which made [00:04:30] Israeli officials see red um because [00:04:32] they basically operate for Israel in the [00:04:36] Lebanese theater because the Lebanese [00:04:38] army statement blamed the quote unquote [00:04:41] Israeli enemy for the violation of the [00:04:44] Lebanese sovereignity and for [00:04:46] obstructing the army's full deployment [00:04:48] in the south. They couldn't believe that [00:04:51] the Lebanese army commander had the [00:04:54] audacity to call Israel the Israeli [00:04:58] enemy, okay? Or just simply the enemy. [00:05:01] That is the language of the resistance, [00:05:03] okay? And it is the old language of [00:05:04] Lebanon. Lebanon, you know, before [00:05:07] October 7th and all the shenanigans that [00:05:10] have spread throughout the region, um it [00:05:12] was essentially [00:05:15] uh the army, the people, and the [00:05:18] resistance, okay? This sort of trifecta, [00:05:21] right? This this everybody had to abide [00:05:23] by this. And Israel was the declared [00:05:27] enemy of the of the Lebanese state. And [00:05:30] so by him even saying this, I mean the [00:05:32] Americans just canceled all meetings [00:05:34] with him with the Lebanese army [00:05:36] commander. Okay. Um and uh you know [00:05:41] Morgan Ortegus went into [00:05:43] [sighs and gasps] a catatonic state and [00:05:46] you know and then lashed out. Uh he he [00:05:49] has refused repeatedly [00:05:52] um US demands to raid civilian homes in [00:05:55] the south uh to search for Hezbollah's [00:05:58] weapons. His argument is that if they do [00:06:02] it once, this will only prompt is prompt [00:06:04] Israel to come back and ask for more. It [00:06:06] goes back to what I was saying earlier. [00:06:08] Israel grooms and tames people to expect [00:06:11] and accept its bad behavior. So, um he [00:06:15] wasn't going to allow this to become [00:06:17] normalized, right? Uh search this home, [00:06:19] search that home, go under this tree, go [00:06:21] under that grove. Um and in fact the [00:06:24] Lebanese army has complied by the [00:06:27] agreement. You know they have gone in [00:06:29] and disarmed weapons where they were [00:06:32] identified and they have done their own [00:06:34] search and seizures. Right. So they've [00:06:37] been cooperative and the resistance as [00:06:39] you point out has not launched a single [00:06:43] um retaliatory strike back at Israel. [00:06:45] This is why I think that negotiated [00:06:48] settlements with this enemy or this set [00:06:50] of enemies does us no good. You have to [00:06:54] just cease fire [00:06:56] um with the understanding that the [00:06:58] slightest provocation will restart the [00:07:00] fight. Right? So the onus cannot be [00:07:04] placed back on us over and over again. [00:07:06] So of course today Israel is bombing la [00:07:09] Gaza left, right and center. You know, [00:07:10] they always say it is we we um we [00:07:14] withhold the right to um to basically, [00:07:17] you know, target our enemy and achieve [00:07:21] our war goals, which is to eradicate [00:07:23] Hamas. Well, you can't. There's a [00:07:25] ceasefire. You know, there's two sets of [00:07:27] rules for for both sides of these [00:07:30] agreements. Um and one has the [00:07:32] rules-based order behind it, and the [00:07:34] other one is expected to cleave um to to [00:07:38] those rules. and uh it's not working [00:07:40] out. But in Lebanon, there's also I mean [00:07:42] there's been there's been talk, you [00:07:44] know, angry talk among Americans uh [00:07:47] about replacing Nabi Berry, who is the [00:07:50] speaker of the house, a position uh [00:07:52] reserved for um Shia candidate in in [00:07:57] Lebanon because everything in Lebanon is [00:07:59] um you know based on sect. So the [00:08:02] president is a Marinite Christian, the [00:08:05] prime minister is a Sunni and the [00:08:07] speaker of parliament is a Shia. So they [00:08:09] want to replace him even though he's [00:08:11] been a very um you know a friend of the [00:08:15] Americans for many many years. He's [00:08:17] always had an open door to them and he's [00:08:20] been an important mediator um between [00:08:22] the resistance and um others you know u [00:08:26] opposing forces. So, um they want to [00:08:29] they they want to erase him because [00:08:33] um he's not playing ball, but he can't. [00:08:36] I mean, the thing is, you know, at the [00:08:38] cradle, we were saying from the [00:08:39] beginning, nobody's going to be able to [00:08:42] enforce um this American Israeli desire [00:08:46] to disarm the resistance, you might as [00:08:48] well take out Joseph Aun now, you know. [00:08:51] But if you put in someone like the [00:08:52] right-wing [00:08:54] um you know saja [00:08:57] he still wouldn't be able to enforce it [00:08:59] unless he kicked off a civil war and [00:09:02] then his side would probably lose you [00:09:04] know but Lebanon would be even more [00:09:05] chaos. So um the Americans are kicking [00:09:08] and screaming basically they don't like [00:09:11] the fact that in their view there's been [00:09:13] no acceleration of um disarming the [00:09:16] resistance um but things have sort of [00:09:18] stayed in place. Uh the the Lebanese are [00:09:21] following the agreement to the letter. [00:09:24] Okay. Um the Israelis are not allowing [00:09:27] Lebanese army soldiers to deploy in [00:09:28] certain areas. They're they're doing [00:09:30] more and more territorial grabs if [00:09:32] anything. Right. So um at some point, [00:09:36] you know, I think it's important to push [00:09:37] back against the American demands and be [00:09:39] like, well, we can't move either way. [00:09:41] You know, it's very interesting. I was [00:09:43] thinking I was away from Lebanon for a [00:09:46] few months and on my way back I was [00:09:48] thinking you know in a sense that the [00:09:50] only country that can maybe stop the [00:09:55] Americans from greenlighting a complete [00:09:58] Israeli escalation on Lebanon and a full [00:10:01] full-on war again is is Saudi Arabia. [00:10:04] You know this was always the Saudis have [00:10:07] always viewed Lebanon as their stomping [00:10:09] ground. um they exited the theater for a [00:10:13] few years and now they've come back. But [00:10:16] I think like a lot of um Arabs and [00:10:18] Muslims in this region, there's um you [00:10:21] know there are discussions about the [00:10:24] expanding Israeli threat, Israel's [00:10:26] biggest mistake. Um, and I think they [00:10:29] acknowledge this now pretty much at [00:10:31] least internally is, you know, trying to [00:10:34] strike Qatar that woke up Persian Gulf [00:10:37] countries that were sort of like, you [00:10:39] know, being dragged along the Abraham [00:10:42] Accords road, right? Um, [00:10:46] they they realized that there was no [00:10:47] stopping this country. There were no red [00:10:49] lines. You know, Israel saw no red [00:10:52] lines. Um, and so the Gataris got an [00:10:56] apology from Netanyahu. might not think [00:10:58] that's a big deal, but how many people [00:11:00] has Netanyahu ever apologized to? Um he [00:11:03] was forced to apologize to the Amir [00:11:06] theataris got out of this a um US [00:11:09] defense pact, right? And they made a big [00:11:13] storm about this. The Qataris did [00:11:16] not let this go. And so I think you know [00:11:19] there's um [00:11:22] there's [sighs] people people are you [00:11:25] know the Saudis certainly after the [00:11:28] hitting of Qatar and they're no great [00:11:30] friends the Saudis of Gataris but the [00:11:31] Saudis um understood that you couldn't [00:11:35] play ball with this administration. I I [00:11:38] don't know if you noticed, you know, a [00:11:39] lot of people don't talk about this [00:11:40] manar, but we understand that there's a [00:11:42] Saudi condition on normalization with [00:11:45] Israel and it is not just a written [00:11:49] agreement, a pathway to a Palestinian [00:11:51] state, but actual movement towards the [00:11:54] creation of a state. Okay. Um, but the [00:11:56] Saudis introduced um new conditional [00:12:00] language earlier this year that kind of [00:12:02] went unnoticed. The Saudis specifically [00:12:06] said not with this Israeli cabinet. [00:12:10] Okay. Um [00:12:14] I think Trump has realized I don't know [00:12:16] if you saw the White House statement on [00:12:18] the discussions between Trump and uh [00:12:22] Saudi Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman, [00:12:24] but the White House issued a statement. [00:12:26] It is such a strange statement. I mean, [00:12:29] there's a lot of like, you know, um, we [00:12:32] set up an agreement to negotiate blah [00:12:35] blah blah. There's a lot of like things [00:12:37] in the works, but nothing nothing super [00:12:41] clear-cut. You know, no major gain for [00:12:43] the Saudis, no major gain certainly for [00:12:46] the Americans. You know, any idea of [00:12:48] normalizations sounds like it's off the [00:12:50] table now. You know, I think the Saudis [00:12:52] have stuck to their guns and yet they [00:12:55] got things from the Americans. the [00:12:56] Americans are going to um create uh [00:13:01] nuclear facilities for Saudis, you know, [00:13:04] to enhance their electricity, you know, [00:13:08] domestic electricity needs. Um, of [00:13:11] course, the Americans will never give [00:13:13] enrichment capacity and capability to [00:13:15] the Saudis directly. The Americans also [00:13:18] gave the Saudis, you know, an an [00:13:20] agreement to um to to purchase F-35s. [00:13:26] Um, you know, it seems that the [00:13:27] Americans made a lot more concessions [00:13:29] and the the Saudis stood stood their [00:13:31] ground. You know, there's nothing no [00:13:33] clear-cut US gain. Certainly not for [00:13:35] Israel on this um out of this. So I [00:13:38] think basically the Saudis um also don't [00:13:42] want the Israelis [00:13:44] in the south of Lebanon, in the south of [00:13:47] Syria, you know, um sort of entrenched [00:13:51] with uh very corrupt Kurdish leaders in [00:13:54] Iraq where at the same time the Turks [00:13:58] are in the north of Iraq, okay? Like [00:14:00] literally occupying the country. They [00:14:01] have military bases there. The Turks [00:14:03] control the northern part of Syria and [00:14:06] oftentimes control Damascus. The Turks [00:14:08] are trying to gain um control and [00:14:11] influence in the northern part of [00:14:13] Lebanon very strongly. There have been [00:14:16] calls for Tripoli to basically be [00:14:18] absorbed by Syria, its natural home, you [00:14:21] know. So, I don't think the Saudis, you [00:14:24] know, they have a fight not just with [00:14:26] the Israelis on these things, but also [00:14:28] with the Turks, with their um Arab [00:14:31] competitors. Um, and I don't think as a [00:14:34] result, I believe that the only ones [00:14:36] right now who could step up if they [00:14:39] chose to and and and actually have the [00:14:41] the ear of Donald Trump because the [00:14:43] Saudis are promising almost a mill a [00:14:46] trillion dollars worth of investments in [00:14:49] the United States to him, right? We'll [00:14:50] see if that transpires. Like all these [00:14:53] promises, they're more likeus, [00:14:56] memorandum of, you know, understandings [00:14:58] than actual deals, you know, with [00:15:00] deadlines, etc. So, the Saudis clearly [00:15:03] have Trump's ears um as do many of the [00:15:06] Gulf Arab states he visited on his tour [00:15:08] in May. And um they can say, "Look, it's [00:15:11] too much." And Trump is already getting [00:15:13] tired, and we've seen this, of Israel's [00:15:17] constant demands, not willing to give [00:15:19] anything in return, embarrassing Trump. [00:15:22] You know, obviously the Gaza ceasefire [00:15:24] is not really a ceasefire. They're [00:15:26] trying to scuttle, you know, all [00:15:28] elements of this plan from the removal [00:15:30] of Israeli um uh forces from the [00:15:34] entirety of Gaza to the um distribution [00:15:37] of aid right through through to the Gaza [00:15:40] Strip. I mean, for me, I sort of fell [00:15:42] off my chair when I heard just what a [00:15:45] week or two ago that the Americans [00:15:47] um were looking at taking over aid [00:15:51] arrival and distribution in Gaza. [00:15:55] Never would Netanyahu want to allow [00:15:57] this. You know, talks about the Israelis [00:15:59] setting up a military encampment slash [00:16:02] base right on the border with Gaza. [00:16:04] Israel has never allowed a US military [00:16:07] base in Israel. You know, there are [00:16:09] tensions there and you have to read [00:16:11] these kind of thing uh messages to [00:16:14] understand that. So, if they go full [00:16:16] force into Lebanon, you know, I think [00:16:20] the Saudis are going to have something [00:16:21] to say about this, you know, and and [00:16:24] let's see. It's not getting easier for [00:16:26] Israel. Okay. I I want to say that I [00:16:30] mean, I just was watching this amazing [00:16:32] series, which you should watch, Manar, [00:16:34] and all your viewers, um, on Mondo [00:16:37] Weiss's, I think, YouTube channel. It's [00:16:40] called Israel Zombie Economy by a an [00:16:43] Israeli economist who gave up his [00:16:45] citizenship. Lives in Germany now, very [00:16:47] very good. Shiv something or other can [00:16:50] never remember his last name. And he um [00:16:54] exposes something that really any [00:16:56] journalist could have done some digging [00:16:57] and found this out. He basically says [00:17:00] that the Israelis were getting free [00:17:01] weapons under the Biden administration [00:17:03] right after October 7th. Americans, [00:17:06] Biden was just sending them what they [00:17:08] needed. Trump is making them pay for it. [00:17:12] You know, of course, Trump is trying to [00:17:14] make everyone pay for the weapons, [00:17:16] right? Europe to pay for we American [00:17:18] weapons in Ukraine, but he's making [00:17:20] Israel pay for US weapons. How is Israel [00:17:23] financing this? Because they do in [00:17:25] effect have, as the title of the show [00:17:27] suggests, a zombie economy. Is they're [00:17:30] issuing like bonds and things that, you [00:17:32] know, American [00:17:34] um retirement funds and stuff are still [00:17:37] buying. that's not going to last long. [00:17:39] You know, the uh the inability for [00:17:41] Israelis to pay back is going to become [00:17:44] more and more clear. Okay. And um [00:17:47] there's not going to be a a infinite [00:17:51] pipeline of weapons to Israel unless it [00:17:54] pays for them. Um plus none of this is [00:17:58] possible at all without the Americans [00:18:01] behind, you know, having Israel's back. [00:18:04] And as the Americans tire of Israel's [00:18:06] positions on things, and as do the um [00:18:09] Saudis and other Gulf countries, etc., [00:18:12] typical Israeli allies in this region, [00:18:14] um I think we'll see a slowdown. But [00:18:17] right now, Israel still in, you know, [00:18:19] just bomb everywhere mode everywhere, [00:18:21] right? Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, um Yemen. [00:18:25] Um now, Syria is interesting because as [00:18:28] I mentioned before the show started, uh [00:18:30] the Cradle had an exclusive today. Uh [00:18:33] and it was basically that the Russians [00:18:36] are about to reestablish nine military [00:18:40] positions, Russian military positions in [00:18:43] Syria's Katra governorit. The Kunetra [00:18:46] governoret is where you know borders the [00:18:49] Golan Heights. It is where a large [00:18:52] community of Syrian Drews lived live. Um [00:18:56] it's you know where Israel has tried to [00:18:58] make absolute inroads. And question is [00:19:02] why are the Russians there? The Russians [00:19:04] by the way as the cradle sources have [00:19:06] revealed to us um are not negotiating [00:19:10] this with Turkey in the room. They've [00:19:13] been negotiating this directly with um [00:19:16] the Syrian president's office in [00:19:18] Damascus. So that's a new um you know [00:19:23] component to consider when we're looking [00:19:25] at the Levant as a whole. Are they in [00:19:27] there? I mean, ostensibly the Israelis [00:19:30] have agreed to this. They want to keep [00:19:33] um, you know, on good terms with Russian [00:19:36] President Vladimir Putin. I don't know [00:19:38] that the Israelis had any choice. [00:19:40] They're certainly trying to um, [00:19:45] position this as something the Israelis [00:19:49] would like so that they didn't have [00:19:52] Syrian elements, you know, [00:19:54] >> at at their at their border. Um, which [00:19:56] is rubbish. The Syrians have not pushed [00:19:59] back remotely in these, you know, months [00:20:01] and months of, well, a year now almost [00:20:03] of Israeli attacks in Syria. They're not [00:20:06] afraid of uh Ahmed al-Shara and his [00:20:09] forces. Certainly not. But Ahmed [00:20:12] al-Shara flew to Moscow to meet with [00:20:14] Putin right in in the fall to ask for [00:20:18] help because nobody would be able to [00:20:22] stop the Israeli onslaught, especially [00:20:25] with American criticizing them except [00:20:27] the Russians. You know, for instance, [00:20:30] why have the UAE and basically all Arab [00:20:32] countries refuses refused to send in [00:20:34] their military forces to act as [00:20:37] peacekeepers in Gaza? because they're [00:20:40] brown and Israel will kill them without [00:20:42] a thought, right? But you put Russian [00:20:44] soldiers in there and Israel thinks it [00:20:47] twice. So whatever, however the Israelis [00:20:49] seek to spin this, they are not going to [00:20:52] be happy with Russian U military [00:20:54] positions in southern Syria right on [00:20:56] their border. [00:20:58] Well, Charmaine, you are just on fire [00:20:59] today because you basically summed up an [00:21:02] entire region for us and kind of beat me [00:21:04] to some of the the questions and answers [00:21:06] that I was going to um ask you about. [00:21:08] But, you know, there's a lot to unpack [00:21:10] with everything that you talked about [00:21:12] from Saudi Arabia to the rules-based [00:21:14] order being exposed. And I think what [00:21:16] Israel really did in this genocide is um [00:21:20] you know they've exposed and the way [00:21:22] that the United States responded this [00:21:24] genocide exposed the moral depravity of [00:21:27] the so-called rules-based order and that [00:21:30] the rules are only applying to a certain [00:21:33] group of people and not to others just [00:21:34] like you you described. And the the [00:21:37] really beautiful thing about that is [00:21:38] that humanity has woken up to the true [00:21:41] face of US and Israeli imperialism. And [00:21:44] I find it really interesting that you [00:21:46] mentioned that Biden was just giving [00:21:48] away um these weapons to Israel um uh as [00:21:52] Israel needed them while Trump is now um [00:21:55] you know forcing Israel to pay for these [00:21:58] weapons and that Saudi Arabia is kind of [00:22:00] one of the main uh drivers of the [00:22:04] foreign policy situation inside of [00:22:07] inside of um the Middle East. And so I [00:22:10] think when we looked at like the [00:22:12] coverage coming from corporate [00:22:13] mainstream media with uh Trump's meeting [00:22:15] with uh NBS, the main focus of the [00:22:19] coverage was about NBS's convers or his [00:22:21] comments on um Kosogi, Jamal Kosigible's [00:22:26] um murder by the Saudis, which by the [00:22:28] way they installed the NSO's Pegasus [00:22:31] software on his phone to track him and [00:22:33] then to kill him. But the main [00:22:36] conversation about Israel and the [00:22:39] Abraham Accords and what they really [00:22:42] wanted for Syria wasn't really talked [00:22:44] about within mainstream coverage. And so [00:22:46] you touched on that, but I want to [00:22:48] actually focus on some of that a little [00:22:50] bit more um because Saudi Arabia does [00:22:54] have a heavy hand when it comes to what [00:22:56] takes place in the Middle East. A lot of [00:22:59] people, you know, they look at the UAE [00:23:02] as now kind of leading the way, but I [00:23:05] think the UAE really just mirrors [00:23:07] whatever Israel wants at this point. I [00:23:09] mean, they've became like their little [00:23:10] puppy where they can just do whatever [00:23:12] Israel wants in terms of security and [00:23:14] negotiations, but Saudi Arabia actually [00:23:16] does have a bit of a stronger hand in [00:23:19] influencing US foreign policy. So, if [00:23:21] you can just talk a little bit more [00:23:23] about that and what did Saudi Arabia [00:23:26] really get out of this meeting with [00:23:29] Trump um this these past couple of days [00:23:32] and what it could mean for Syria? [00:23:36] >> Well, I think that like I said, the [00:23:38] Saudis kind of got some things they've [00:23:40] been asking for for a really long time [00:23:42] um without there being a clear um US [00:23:46] reward for it. I mean, like I said, [00:23:48] Trump said we're getting almost $1 [00:23:49] trillion from the Saudis, which is up [00:23:52] from the 600 billion promised earlier. [00:23:55] Where is that? It's not in bags of cash. [00:23:58] It comes it gets eaked out, you know, [00:24:01] with all the Gulf countries, by the way. [00:24:03] It's not like when he announced we're [00:24:04] getting trillions of dollars from the [00:24:06] these Arab countries that that's what [00:24:08] they received. It's not the case. Um, I [00:24:12] don't know that the Saudis had Lebanon [00:24:14] on at the top of their wish list. It [00:24:16] would have to be something that's on top [00:24:18] of their wish list in order for the US [00:24:20] president to take steps. Um the Saudis [00:24:24] may just wait until a situation emerges [00:24:29] in which they can pick up the phone and [00:24:31] make that call, you know. Um why ask for [00:24:33] something before it's happened? Um I, [00:24:38] you know, it's not to say that the [00:24:39] Saudis are out to save Lebanon. No, they [00:24:41] very clearly, if you read the Saudi [00:24:43] media, it is very clearly and Saudi [00:24:46] official statements, they want the [00:24:49] resistance in Lebanon to be um disarmed, [00:24:53] dismantled, you know, dead. Um but they [00:24:57] also don't want Israel to take Lebanon. [00:25:01] They don't want Turkey to take Lebanon. [00:25:02] These things are big considerations uh [00:25:05] for the Saudis. [00:25:07] You know, the Saudis, I always say, come [00:25:10] late to a game. You know, when they see [00:25:12] one of their Persian Gulf rivals making [00:25:16] um making big strides that, you know, [00:25:20] project their power more than Saudi [00:25:22] would like it to project. They sort of [00:25:25] get in on the game. It's the Arab Spring [00:25:27] game. The Saudis came late to that game. [00:25:29] The Qataris were working that. Um and [00:25:33] then by mid 2012 we saw the Saudis [00:25:36] arrive [00:25:38] fully in Damascus, you know, with [00:25:41] Muhammad, sorry, um Prince Bandar uh bin [00:25:45] Sultan who became I think intelligence [00:25:47] chief in chief in Saudi Arabia and [00:25:50] triggered his jihadi network and all of [00:25:52] a sudden the Syrian conflict was quite [00:25:54] different and the Saudis started backing [00:25:55] certain groups. um you know and you [00:25:58] actually had quite a I always say the [00:26:00] Arab Spring was kind of marked by Sydney [00:26:03] versus Sydney because all of these [00:26:05] countries were kind of opening up their [00:26:08] borders doing more trade with each other [00:26:11] having visaf-free policies and the Arab [00:26:13] Spring comes and it's Turkey versus [00:26:16] Saudi Arabia versus Egypt versus the UAE [00:26:20] versus Qatar you know all of them trying [00:26:23] to get the upper hand and become the big [00:26:26] player. [00:26:27] uh you know to take the mantle of Egypt [00:26:30] for instance which has long been you [00:26:32] know the leader of the Arab world where [00:26:34] is Egypt today the Arab Spring put a [00:26:36] kabash to that you know so there's um I [00:26:40] don't know that the Saudis got anything [00:26:42] of worth [00:26:44] discussed statements mean nothing from [00:26:47] both these parties the Saudis and the [00:26:48] Americans [00:26:50] um [00:26:52] I would like to think that the the the [00:26:56] unnoticed Saudi condition which was no [00:27:01] normalization with this cabinet is being [00:27:03] heard loud and clear in Trump's White [00:27:05] House because [00:27:07] um there's uh [00:27:10] nothing can change with this cabinet and [00:27:13] this Israeli prime minister but [00:27:15] everything can change with a new Israeli [00:27:17] prime minister and a new cabinet. Okay. [00:27:20] Um Netanyahu undermines all his allies. [00:27:23] he's always done so and doesn't care. [00:27:26] Um, other Israeli officials would not be [00:27:28] quite the same. U, let's see what [00:27:32] happens. You know, in Israeli elections, [00:27:33] Netanyahu still looks to be the most [00:27:35] popular candidate, but can he put [00:27:37] together a coalition government or will [00:27:39] his own allies scuttle it? You know, um, [00:27:43] really there's I mean, right now I'm [00:27:45] just speculating a bunch of things, you [00:27:47] know. Um, [00:27:49] we know that the Saudis are for [00:27:52] instance, oh, back to that discussion. [00:27:54] So, the Saudis, you know, when when [00:27:55] Ahmed al- Shara, you know, arrived in [00:27:58] Damascus, the Gataris and Turks had [00:28:02] essentially won Syria. And now, you [00:28:04] know, for many months now, you know, [00:28:06] much of this year, we've been hearing [00:28:08] that the Qataris have been sidelined [00:28:11] um in some part by the Saudis and the [00:28:14] UAE and others who don't, you know, have [00:28:17] a difference of have a worldview [00:28:19] difference potentially, you know, to [00:28:21] some part with with with Qatar. And [00:28:24] they've kind of elbowed their way in, [00:28:26] you know, like a lot of Western [00:28:28] countries have to get the better the [00:28:30] bigger deals, the better deals, right? [00:28:32] rebuilding Syria. Um, big contracts. Uh, [00:28:37] but I was I I met with a Western [00:28:41] diplomat in Beirut yesterday who [00:28:44] actually has the Lebanese and Syria file [00:28:45] in his hands and he was saying, you [00:28:48] know, he's asked me what I thought about [00:28:49] Syria's economy and where it was [00:28:51] heading. And he said, you know, right [00:28:53] now we essentially have a bunch ofUS, [00:28:58] you know, meaning the uh the will is [00:29:02] there, the decision to do something is [00:29:05] more or less on the table, but where's [00:29:07] the money? [00:29:09] Where, you know, are things really being [00:29:10] built in Syria? And there was this big [00:29:12] thing on social media for the first time [00:29:15] 24 hours all electricity in Damascus. [00:29:18] But he even said that's is that a PR [00:29:21] thing? How long is that sustainable [00:29:24] given what we know about their economic [00:29:26] state of affairs and their lack of [00:29:29] infrastructure to support, you know, [00:29:31] 24-hour electricity throughout Syria, [00:29:33] right? And who's going to pay for it? [00:29:36] Are Syrians going to be paying? You [00:29:38] know, they where's the money? You know, [00:29:40] so um there's a lot up in the air. And [00:29:43] so obviously you see Ahmed Al in every [00:29:46] single capital of the world. He's become [00:29:48] like the new Zalinski. He's out there [00:29:50] with his begging cup and uh went so far [00:29:55] to turn to Moscow because like the [00:29:58] Lebanese are realizing the West and its [00:30:01] allies never deliver anything. I mean, [00:30:03] just watch Iraq. The amount of contracts [00:30:06] that Western companies got to rebuild [00:30:09] Iraq, to create infrastructure, to [00:30:12] establish efficiencies, nothing. I mean, [00:30:14] GE had contracts worth billions of [00:30:17] dollars, just sold one of its contract [00:30:19] last year to the to the Chinese. Nothing [00:30:21] was built. Nothing gets done with the [00:30:24] West. And I think we're starting to [00:30:26] sense that here. You know, I think [00:30:29] Joseph Aun, the Lebanese president [00:30:31] thought with the kind of momentum the [00:30:35] Americans always give a sense that they [00:30:38] have going, but it's just words. manar, [00:30:41] you know, I call it their kinetic [00:30:43] energies. The the the the Israelis and [00:30:46] the Americans stay kinetic. There's not [00:30:49] a day that goes by in the news cycle [00:30:51] without us hearing a US or an Israeli [00:30:54] statement on something very pressing in [00:30:56] the region, right, to to scene set to to [00:30:59] to steal the narrative, to set the [00:31:02] narrative. Um, and it gives us a sense [00:31:05] that they're doing so much here, right? [00:31:08] But in fact, a lot of it is hot air. And [00:31:11] so Ahmed [clears throat] Al definitely [00:31:13] got wind of that when he turned to the [00:31:16] Russians. The Israelis are turning to [00:31:18] the Chinese to help build out their [00:31:21] electricity grid. Okay? you know, um the [00:31:26] Lebanese won't dare do anything that the [00:31:30] Americans say no to, but that's going to [00:31:33] change too because nothing is moving [00:31:35] here except um Israeli violations [00:31:39] getting worse and worse and worse. And [00:31:40] of course at some part at some point the [00:31:42] the resistance will respond but the [00:31:45] resistance will tell us that it's [00:31:48] getting to a point where they're going [00:31:49] to respond to let people prepare you [00:31:52] know um so yeah I mean it's just you [00:31:57] know what we talk on the Cradles podcast [00:31:59] we do it twice a week now [00:32:01] [clears throat] um and we talk about all [00:32:03] the time a lot of balls in the air you [00:32:06] know and the best we can do is point out [00:32:08] what these balls are you know what's in [00:32:10] play. There's no telling how things can [00:32:12] move because as you know covering this [00:32:14] region man better than most journalists [00:32:17] in the world. Um one event can change [00:32:21] trajectories [00:32:23] in this region too. [00:32:25] >> Absolutely. And one of those events is [00:32:28] the revelations uh of Jeffrey Epstein [00:32:31] and his role in driving US policy in the [00:32:33] Middle East. And I know that that might [00:32:35] seem like a big pivot to go from what we [00:32:37] talked about to Jeffrey Epstein, but [00:32:39] actually um one of the people parading [00:32:42] in the Middle East talking about, you [00:32:44] know, being acting civilized and stop [00:32:46] being anim animalistic is um the US [00:32:50] ambassador to Turkey. Yeah, Tom Barack. [00:32:53] Tom Barack recently made headlines when [00:32:55] he told of a group of Lebanese people to [00:32:58] or to Lebanese journalists to stop [00:33:00] acting civilized and to stop being so [00:33:04] anim animalistic. And so there are [00:33:06] recent revelations of him thanking [00:33:09] Jeffrey Epstein for a young child and [00:33:11] sending photos. So, what have you made [00:33:13] of the latest revelations about Jeffrey [00:33:15] Epstein's ties to Tom Barack to Israel [00:33:19] and Israeli intelligence and shaping um [00:33:22] what we're seeing today in Lebanon and [00:33:25] in the Middle East? [00:33:27] Um, [00:33:30] I'll get back to the Tom Barack [00:33:31] accusation, but you know, [00:33:35] I always say there's two levels that [00:33:37] look at the to look at at the Epstein [00:33:39] situation, the issues and and one is [00:33:43] covered by Western media to some extent [00:33:46] and the other one is largely and almost [00:33:48] entirely ignored by mainstream western [00:33:50] media. The two Epstein issues are one, [00:33:53] the trafficking of minors. Okay. Um, [00:33:58] right. That is where how people know of [00:34:02] Epstein, right? Trafficking young girls [00:34:04] to important um, men. The other element [00:34:09] of this is [00:34:12] why was Epstein doing this? Okay. Um and [00:34:16] of course we know and because in in our [00:34:20] media and independent media we've [00:34:22] discussed this is likely a blackmail [00:34:24] operation you know and for a very long [00:34:27] time we've talked about linking um you [00:34:30] know we've linked Epstein to the MSAD [00:34:32] and obviously through his partner [00:34:35] Gileain Maxwell whose father was Robert [00:34:38] Maxwell you know who had lots of links [00:34:40] with the MSAD um that's been our [00:34:43] discourse not that we're uncon concerned [00:34:46] about the trafficking of minors. No, but [00:34:48] that's how it affects us in this region, [00:34:51] right? [00:34:52] >> And um I think just today uh Republican [00:34:56] Congressman Thomas Massie [00:34:59] um said Jeffrey Epstein had closed ties [00:35:02] to our own intelligence agency and [00:35:05] Israel's intelligence agencies. That's [00:35:08] why they're trying to stop this. So you [00:35:11] have a sitting US congressman now making [00:35:14] those things clear instead of of course [00:35:17] the world has you know Americans have [00:35:19] heard this about the second element the [00:35:21] Msada element because of social media [00:35:24] otherwise you'd never have heard about [00:35:25] this element are in the United States [00:35:28] you know um so social media has sort of [00:35:31] um bypassed and gone well beyond [00:35:34] mainstream media and covering this [00:35:36] aspect of the story and by having people [00:35:39] like that point to it and having this [00:35:41] big surge in anti-Israel sentiment among [00:35:46] the Republican and conservative right in [00:35:49] America um with major media and [00:35:52] political personalities coming out [00:35:54] absolutely against Israel not even [00:35:56] neutral but like against Israel is a [00:35:59] huge change now [00:36:02] um I like that the emails mention people [00:36:05] like Barack because he's an envoy for [00:36:09] this region He's not just a guy, right? [00:36:11] I I I like that. Um, but to be honest, [00:36:17] let's be journalists here for a second. [00:36:19] When you saw that email, which basically [00:36:21] in which Epstein basically says, and I'm [00:36:23] not reading this verbatim, [00:36:26] um, [00:36:28] uh, you're with the pig, you're with the [00:36:31] kid, send me a picture, make me smile. [00:36:35] Right. [00:36:36] >> Yeah. I immediately went to look up how [00:36:40] many kids Thomas Barack has. He has six [00:36:43] kids. [00:36:44] That could have been nothing. All right. [00:36:47] Like a big nothing burger. I actually [00:36:49] hate that we do this because we [00:36:51] undermine our own arguments. I don't I [00:36:53] mean, you're right to bring it up. We [00:36:55] should be discussing it. And I don't [00:36:57] know that he was talking about his own, [00:36:59] you know, Barack's actual six kids or if [00:37:02] he was talking about a minor female who [00:37:04] was sitting next to him at the time, but [00:37:07] I think we shouldn't jump to conclusions [00:37:09] on this. Um I do agree with uh Massie [00:37:14] that the reason this is being covered up [00:37:16] is because [00:37:18] you know Epstein was essentially he had [00:37:21] a prediliction for young girls and [00:37:23] that's why he was selected you know um [00:37:26] he was viewed by some as a sophisticate [00:37:29] who could move in those circles and you [00:37:31] know we never know where his money came [00:37:32] from but he was set up with uh you know [00:37:36] um multi-million dollar properties and [00:37:38] private jets and um all the goodies, [00:37:42] right? In which he could Okay, so if you [00:37:46] were invited to a party with, you know, [00:37:49] A-listers, political A-listers, [00:37:51] celebrity A-listers, media A-listers, [00:37:53] you'd probably go, right? I would um to [00:37:57] see who these people were and how they [00:37:58] migled. No, no, no. I mean, why would [00:37:59] you not? I'm nosy. That's why I'm a [00:38:01] journalist. Okay, I'm just going to say [00:38:03] that. I don't have a lot of red lines. [00:38:05] Very few, by the way. And um [00:38:09] but what he probably sought to do was to [00:38:12] figure out who he could corrupt so they [00:38:16] could have blackmail files on that [00:38:17] person, right? And if you follow like [00:38:20] the um Bill Melinda Gates divorce story, [00:38:24] she talked about Epstein giving her the [00:38:26] creeps from, you know, from the get-go [00:38:31] and her telling Bill she doesn't want [00:38:33] him to hang around with with with [00:38:35] Jeffrey Epstein. And so, um, there are [00:38:38] people who got sucked into Epstein's [00:38:40] world. Um, there are people who never [00:38:43] knew this stuff was going on. They just [00:38:45] weren't participants in this kind of [00:38:46] things. They were props, you know, it's [00:38:48] good to have this big name at my party [00:38:50] anyways, right? Um but and there were [00:38:53] people who were not even blackmailed, [00:38:56] but the photos were there. Probably the [00:38:58] understanding was there that um you [00:39:01] know, we have a lot on you. And so you [00:39:04] have people, you know, I mean, this is [00:39:06] what intelligence agencies do. You know, [00:39:10] a few businessmen might do it, but we [00:39:12] don't actually know. Epstein was a [00:39:15] businessman. Nobody knows what he did, [00:39:16] you know. Um, but this is the work of [00:39:19] intelligence agencies. And as you know, [00:39:22] people have noted these last years, [00:39:25] nobody becomes big, [00:39:28] so big, okay, that they don't then get [00:39:32] infiltrated, okay? You're not allowed to [00:39:35] just start a Twitter. If you get big [00:39:37] enough, they're not going to allow you [00:39:40] to if you don't play ball with them. And [00:39:42] this is just what happens, right? So, um [00:39:45] it's it's a game and and and I would [00:39:48] definitely um warn people against taking [00:39:50] every nail name that appears in these [00:39:53] emails and you know um jumping to [00:39:56] conclusions by association. Um but of [00:40:00] course what this all leads to is more [00:40:02] and more public um desire to scrutinize [00:40:06] these documents themselves. So, it's not [00:40:09] a bad thing, you know, even if there's [00:40:11] sort of like puff pieces and stuff that [00:40:13] comes out of this um you know, uh and a [00:40:16] lot of over speculation, the fact is I [00:40:19] think it's created momentum to get these [00:40:22] files released. And once the files and [00:40:24] the investigator investigations are [00:40:26] released, then we know much much more. [00:40:29] Um but I I I don't subscribe necessarily [00:40:33] to the idea that um Trump has reversed [00:40:36] his position on disclosing the files um [00:40:39] because he is um implicated in you know [00:40:44] having sexual relations with minors. I [00:40:46] subscribe to the position that too many [00:40:50] super important people are in those [00:40:54] files who have all weighed in and [00:40:58] pressured Trump not to let them be [00:41:01] released. [00:41:04] >> Sorry to disappoint. [00:41:05] >> No, that's okay. I mean, I think you [00:41:07] make a very valid point. You know, I [00:41:09] think a lot of people forget that [00:41:10] sometimes that there are people who show [00:41:12] up and communicate with certain people [00:41:15] and um it might just be of an [00:41:17] association. It doesn't necessarily uh [00:41:19] implicate them in some sort of [00:41:21] wrongdoing. And so that's a very valid [00:41:24] point. And so one of the things I wanted [00:41:26] to wrap up the conversation uh to talk [00:41:28] about was Yemen. you know, you've you've [00:41:31] done this incredible job at kind of [00:41:32] painting the whole picture in the region [00:41:34] from Syria to Qatar, Saudi Arabia, [00:41:37] Lebanon, Palestine, and you know, how [00:41:40] the US involvement has played a role or [00:41:43] shaped the policies, Russia, China, [00:41:46] etc., etc. But one uh nation that has [00:41:51] really triumphed over this uh region is [00:41:55] the resistance in Yemen. I mean this is [00:41:58] a small poor nation. Of course it's poor [00:42:01] by design because it's been plundered [00:42:04] and occupied by the powers that be. But [00:42:07] you know Yemen has been able to put up [00:42:09] stiff resistance to the USIsraeli [00:42:12] project. Um and you know since the [00:42:15] ceasefire they've they've they've [00:42:17] threatened Israel that they will [00:42:18] continue uh to bomb Israel or you know [00:42:22] to to to fly their missiles there. How [00:42:24] have they been able to do it? And do you [00:42:28] think that their resistance is going to [00:42:29] continue in 2026? Like what is the buzz [00:42:32] that you're hearing? And how do you [00:42:33] think the US and Israel will respond [00:42:36] considering Yemen did enforce one of the [00:42:39] most successful blockades against Israel [00:42:43] and the US and its Red Sea blockade? [00:42:47] Um, one of the reason Yemen has been so [00:42:49] successful or the Yemeni resistance is [00:42:52] because they they don't, you know, by [00:42:55] and large they don't speak English, they [00:42:57] don't read the Western press. Um, [00:43:00] they're untouched by the propaganda [00:43:03] narratives that has made, in my view, [00:43:06] many of the other members of the [00:43:07] resistance axis too well behaved. Okay? [00:43:11] Do you know what I'm saying? [00:43:14] >> Too well-mannered. Okay? [00:43:17] The Yemeni resistance put a bullet in [00:43:19] the head of um Ali Abd Ali Abdasal, [00:43:25] right? [00:43:27] They didn't think, oh, we're not allowed [00:43:29] to do that. It's going to make us look [00:43:30] savage. Oh, we have to show a different [00:43:32] face of ourselves to blah blah blah blah [00:43:35] fill in the blank. Right? They don't [00:43:37] they they don't have colonized minds. [00:43:40] Even the hardcore resistance elsewhere [00:43:43] in the region have a certain [00:43:46] colonization of their minds that has [00:43:48] happened. Okay. Um because they read the [00:43:51] western press. I'm sorry. It just [00:43:53] happens. You know, if you speak English, [00:43:54] you're going to use certain language [00:43:55] about, you know, discussing this region [00:43:57] than if you're speaking about it in [00:43:58] Arabic. You know, um the other thing is [00:44:03] Yemen has not been infiltrated. [00:44:06] uh the Israelis, the Americans have [00:44:08] spent years infiltrated or in [00:44:10] infiltrating or trying to infiltrate the [00:44:13] traditional resistance access countries [00:44:15] in this region, right? I mean the um [00:44:18] internal security forces in Lebanon [00:44:20] fully infiltrated by um British [00:44:24] introduced software. I mean, anyone, any [00:44:28] of these, you know, five eyes countries [00:44:30] plus Israel can view the data of every [00:44:33] single um uh Lebanese person with a [00:44:37] mobile phone. It's ridiculous. It's [00:44:39] ridiculous. Okay, they've infiltrated [00:44:41] tracking, you know, tracking devices in [00:44:43] this country that uh through mobile [00:44:46] towers that, you know, they've made sure [00:44:48] haven't gone the contracts haven't gone [00:44:50] to Chinese manufacturers, but ones that [00:44:52] they can infiltrate, you know, from [00:44:53] Western countries. This has been written [00:44:56] extensively about in in uh in at the [00:44:59] cradle and elsewhere. Um and I remember [00:45:02] back in maybe before 2010 around that [00:45:06] the international telecommunications [00:45:08] association, the biggest one in the [00:45:10] world, basically um had a resolution [00:45:13] condemning Israel's attempts to [00:45:15] infiltrate Lebanon clearly through blah [00:45:18] blah blah. like you're not allowed to do [00:45:20] that, you know, if you follow if you're [00:45:22] part of the global telecommunications [00:45:23] community, right? So, this has gone on [00:45:26] forever. They've worked for years to do [00:45:28] that in Syria. They've worked for years [00:45:30] to do that in the um Palestinian uh [00:45:34] territories. They've worked to do that [00:45:36] in Iran. We saw in this war the exposure [00:45:40] of um Israeli drone um drone production [00:45:44] facilities inside Iran that had been [00:45:47] operational. I think for eight months [00:45:49] prior according to the Israelis, but the [00:45:51] Yemenes have not been infiltrated. Now, [00:45:53] the Cradle did a piece not long ago, I [00:45:55] think maybe in the last month or so that [00:45:57] showed um how much the Israelis and [00:46:00] Americans were working to infiltrate [00:46:04] Yemen communications, okay, and to [00:46:07] basically get themselves Yemeni spies, [00:46:10] people to report on the actions of [00:46:12] Ansarah, etc., and its officials. And um [00:46:16] they have struck and killed a number of [00:46:18] these officials, right? But they've not [00:46:20] been a this is all new, relatively new [00:46:23] to them, right? Don't forget the Yemeni [00:46:25] resistance kind of controls its own [00:46:28] areas, right? Of and the Americans and [00:46:31] Israelis don't need to do the same in [00:46:34] areas that are influenced by the Saudis [00:46:36] and the Emiratis, you know, in southern [00:46:38] Yemen. [snorts] So, um essentially [00:46:41] they're just new at this game. They are [00:46:43] going to do everything they can to [00:46:45] infiltrate further and we'll see. And [00:46:47] that is why Yemen has acted the way it [00:46:50] has. It doesn't it's not colonized. It [00:46:54] doesn't even think in terms of well we [00:46:57] can't shoot down a US plane or bomb an [00:47:01] American ship. It doesn't think in those [00:47:03] terms. It doesn't think that it can't [00:47:06] send um two missiles right into an [00:47:09] Israeli um Dustin ship. It doesn't think [00:47:12] that way. All the other actors think, [00:47:15] "Oh, we can't really do that. Why? Why? [00:47:18] The resistance in this region didn't [00:47:20] start like that. It started with, you [00:47:23] know, the bombing of the marine barracks [00:47:26] in Lebanon. They didn't have any, you [00:47:28] know, and then they learned English. [00:47:30] What can I say? that and the fact that [00:47:32] there hasn't been um the kind of [00:47:35] eavesdropping and um technological [00:47:40] um uh infiltration of uh unserela [00:47:44] controlled Yemen. So I think that's what [00:47:46] accounts for why they're doing so well. [00:47:48] >> And you know M press news has actually [00:47:50] uncovered in the last I think it was our [00:47:52] investigation that we revealed about two [00:47:54] and a half years ago. We actually [00:47:56] uncovered um one of the largest spying [00:48:00] attempted networks inside of Yemen [00:48:03] >> um through Israel's Mossad and it was [00:48:06] through aid organizations and NOS's you [00:48:08] know surprise surprise and of and of [00:48:11] course Yemen arrested they caught them [00:48:14] and they arrested everyone and we [00:48:16] actually interviewed a lot of these [00:48:17] people that were held in these Yemen uh [00:48:19] prisons and um they were a lot of them [00:48:23] were Yebanese and like you said They [00:48:25] were uh American taught, English taught [00:48:28] and they had come back to spy on uh ons [00:48:31] law. But what's really interesting about [00:48:33] Yemen is that the genocide in Gaza [00:48:35] united Yemenes across sectarian lines. A [00:48:38] lot of the very uh militants and people [00:48:41] that maybe would have aligned with Saudi [00:48:43] Arabia or the UAE in the south put down [00:48:45] their arms inside of Yemen to stand with [00:48:49] Allah. I mean that's a huge [00:48:51] >> defected. They Yeah. They defected. [00:48:53] >> The thing about [00:48:54] >> Yeah. Yemenes from top to bottom, you [00:48:58] know, east to west are anti-Israel [00:49:01] and pro-Gaza. The the the um [00:49:06] the propaganda just hasn't infiltrated [00:49:10] there. You know, too many people didn't [00:49:12] pay attention to Yemen. Yemen was always [00:49:14] like poorest country in the region and [00:49:17] then a hot war and you just arm. It's an [00:49:19] opportunity to arm your sides and then [00:49:22] you know again back poorest country in [00:49:23] the region blah blah and then another [00:49:25] war. You know this is kind of how it's [00:49:26] gone. Did they need to did they ever [00:49:28] think the poorest country in the region [00:49:31] could create its own domesticmade [00:49:35] missiles that were technologically [00:49:38] advanced and would dare to strike right [00:49:43] NATO or NATO aligned forces. They just [00:49:47] didn't plan for it. You know that comes [00:49:49] from arrogance. It also comes from a [00:49:52] complete lack of understanding of this [00:49:54] region. You know I always say like bomb [00:49:56] everything. Okay? Bomb everything in [00:49:59] sight and a resistance will grow that [00:50:03] will destroy you. It's just the more you [00:50:06] come at us the more people you get with [00:50:09] the resistance. You know this this is a [00:50:12] fact. We we don't have anywhere else to [00:50:14] go. We are in this region attached to [00:50:17] our land. Okay. We love the smell of our [00:50:22] fruit trees. Nothing smells like the [00:50:25] fruit on our fruit trees. There is a [00:50:28] sensory attachment to this land that [00:50:30] comes from living on it for generations [00:50:33] and generations [00:50:35] and even dare I say millennia. Okay. the [00:50:39] Israeli settlers, you couldn't pay them [00:50:42] to go back to their northern homes [00:50:45] because they have no attachment, no [00:50:49] visceral attachment to that land. [00:50:53] >> Absolutely. And I wanted to ask you, you [00:50:55] kind of began to get into that, but what [00:50:57] are the sort of weapons and tactics that [00:50:59] uh have made [00:51:02] uh the resistance group that they are [00:51:04] that has stood up against the US, [00:51:06] Israeli and Saudi and UAE uh military [00:51:10] might what have they been using to [00:51:12] resist that? [00:51:14] >> I am the wrong person to say like [00:51:16] everyone in Lebanon can go, "Oh, that's [00:51:18] a drone and I just heard an airplane, a [00:51:22] bird. I I don't hear I don't know. [00:51:25] They're like uh that's a you know [00:51:28] whatever even bullet sounds that's like [00:51:30] that's an AK-47. I zero zero ability or [00:51:35] really interest in the kinds of weapons. [00:51:38] But what I do know from um meaning I'm [00:51:41] not going to give you names Manar just [00:51:42] don't expect that from me. But um I I do [00:51:46] remember first covering Yemen sort of [00:51:48] around the time the State Department um [00:51:51] leaks, you know, the the Wikileaks [00:51:54] State Department files uh leaked um [00:51:58] because I just as a journalist, you [00:52:00] know, you get so excited. I was just I [00:52:02] spent absolutely weeks and weeks and [00:52:04] weeks going through as many files as I [00:52:06] could because they were all there in a [00:52:07] database and searchable by keyword, [00:52:10] which is even better. And one thing I [00:52:12] learned which surprised me is because [00:52:14] the the rhetoric the narrative in public [00:52:16] by the Americans has always been that [00:52:19] Iran is supplying Yemen, right, with [00:52:22] weapons, right? Iran is supplying the [00:52:24] resistance [00:52:25] um with weapons, that um Iran basically [00:52:29] dictates to Yemen what to do. And in [00:52:32] some of these State Department written [00:52:35] files are lovely little nuggets like no [00:52:40] they don't really get their weapons from [00:52:42] Iran. They a have learned to make them. [00:52:47] Okay. B get them from the Yemen army. [00:52:51] Biggest source Yemen army. Okay. Is how [00:52:55] Ansar gets its weapons. But also you [00:52:58] know there have been six Saudi wars [00:53:00] against Yemen. There's a lot of like [00:53:03] inventory in the field. They can [00:53:06] repurpose, [00:53:07] re-engineer, or just take, right? I [00:53:11] mean, you look at like the ordinances, [00:53:13] the unexloded ordinances that Israel's [00:53:16] dropped on Gaza, that's all in Hamas's [00:53:18] stash now. You know what I mean? So, um, [00:53:22] one was that that the Yemenes have been [00:53:24] making their own stuff for a really long [00:53:26] time. Accelerated, of course. Iran [00:53:29] doesn't need to give it weapons. Don't [00:53:32] forget that there is a massive land and [00:53:35] water blockade of Yemen. We're not going [00:53:39] to have scuba divers moving missiles [00:53:43] underwater across the Persian Gulf. Do [00:53:46] you know what I mean? It's it's stupid [00:53:47] [snorts] for anyone to think that. And [00:53:49] like I said, even back in 2010, the [00:53:52] Americans in private were saying Iran [00:53:55] doesn't supply. [00:53:57] they make it their own or they get it [00:53:59] from the Yemeni army. Um the other part [00:54:01] of this uh was oh that they follow [00:54:05] Iran's instructions right that that Iran [00:54:08] dictates to Yemen. In the State [00:54:10] Department files, it said that in fact [00:54:15] um [00:54:16] uh no most Yemenes don't follow follow [00:54:20] Ali K as their mara okay as their their [00:54:24] own personally selected Shia spiritual [00:54:26] leader. They also said that about [00:54:28] Bahrain because right Iran is funding [00:54:32] and arming and whatever the opposition [00:54:34] in Bahrain because Shia majority country [00:54:38] and it was like uh they're taking [00:54:40] instruction from Iran but the state [00:54:42] department cables said no in fact [00:54:46] >> Issa something or other most Bahraini [00:54:49] Shia follow him and not at all Ali K and [00:54:53] they follow other Shia Mara in the [00:54:56] region. [00:54:57] But by no stretch of the imagination is [00:55:00] it the Iranian supreme leader who is you [00:55:03] know the majority followed. So um a lot [00:55:06] of this is just plain rhetoric. The [00:55:07] Yemenes have you know Ansarah has risen [00:55:11] again like I said resistance will come [00:55:13] if you if you hurt people who live on [00:55:16] the land right they're sort of like from [00:55:18] the mountainous northern areas right and [00:55:21] and uh you you keep attacking them [00:55:23] instead of giving them a seat at the [00:55:25] table. They just wanted representation. [00:55:28] Ansarah represented the Arab Spring in [00:55:31] Yemen when we were all cheering on the [00:55:34] Arab Spring in other states from Tunisia [00:55:36] to Egypt etc. Um Ansarah was driving the [00:55:41] Arab Spring in Yemen and all they were [00:55:43] saying is get rid of our Saudi back [00:55:46] leader and just give us a seat at the [00:55:49] table you know and that was not allowed. [00:55:53] So um of course uh Ansara just went from [00:55:56] you know whatever you want to call them [00:55:58] like mountain people to now controlling [00:56:02] the capital city actually bringing you [00:56:04] know until the recent round of uh new [00:56:07] economic besiegment that the nasty [00:56:11] Americans have um uh imposed on Yemen [00:56:14] until then like it's it's the northern [00:56:16] parts it's the ansora controlled areas [00:56:18] that had better economy less fluctuation [00:56:21] in the currency Okay. More access to [00:56:24] services. It was the southern sort of [00:56:27] Saudi Airatibacked areas that had, you [00:56:29] know, really really um exaggerated [00:56:33] economic problems and crisis. Um so [00:56:37] yeah, that's that's in a nutshell. I [00:56:40] mean, of course, Yemen after all these [00:56:42] wars is going to have [00:56:46] hired an engineering team finally to [00:56:48] build their things. you know, educate [00:56:50] that team, practice, find practice [00:56:53] locations. Maybe they went to Iran, [00:56:55] maybe they went to Syria, maybe they [00:56:57] went to southern Lebanon or the big or [00:57:00] whatever to actually learn and train, [00:57:02] right? But I'm just saying a lot of [00:57:04] Yemen's capabilities are in house. [00:57:06] >> Absolutely. And you know, actually, Mitt [00:57:08] Press had exclusive [00:57:10] um this exclusive opportunity to go and [00:57:13] tour one of the weapons factories inside [00:57:15] of Yemen. And they were just so proud [00:57:18] that everything that they had with these [00:57:21] weapons was built by them with their own [00:57:24] hands. And a lot of it too, um, you [00:57:27] didn't mention this, but apart from what [00:57:28] you mentioned, some of this weaponry was [00:57:31] also left over by the Soviet Union, um, [00:57:34] from previous years. I mean, maybe just [00:57:36] the parts, some parts and pieces that [00:57:38] they were able to recover. Um, and [00:57:40] speaking of stupid, and I just want to [00:57:41] end it here with these State Department [00:57:43] cables that you um that you cited [00:57:46] because we reported on this at Mint [00:57:47] Press News as well. And I think it was [00:57:49] like one or two years prior Nikki Haley [00:57:52] was like giving this big presentation. I [00:57:55] think it was at the UN. Don't quote me [00:57:57] on that. I don't remember exactly, but [00:57:58] she was giving this big presentation and [00:58:00] she's like showing all these weapons [00:58:02] that the that the Yemenes had. I don't [00:58:04] know if you remember that. And she was [00:58:05] made in Iran. [00:58:06] >> Made in Iran. Jacob saying these are [00:58:08] made in Iran. And I love that you said [00:58:10] >> written in English. Written in English, [00:58:12] no less. You know what are do they [00:58:14] think? Well, of course we're stupid. I [00:58:16] mean, most people have been stupid. But [00:58:18] as you said earlier, it's Gaza that has [00:58:20] brought down all the veils. I mean, not [00:58:23] just on the um you know um the lies of [00:58:27] the rules-based order, but those who [00:58:29] claim to be, you know, uh representative [00:58:32] of human rights and freedom of speech [00:58:34] and all these things, right? But um I [00:58:36] just you know back to the Yemen point [00:58:38] really quickly. It's you know I think [00:58:40] what people think you know you've cut [00:58:42] off the the land route potentially [00:58:45] between Iran and Lebanon right for the [00:58:49] for the um transportation of weapons. [00:58:52] >> But we all know that Hezbollah was [00:58:55] producing weapons inside of Lebanon [00:58:59] very openly. We know that. And what is [00:59:03] different between Yemen and Lebanon? You [00:59:06] know, Lebanon has a population of four [00:59:08] or five million, right, who live here. [00:59:10] What is the difference? Why can't the [00:59:12] Yemenes produce it if his biz if the [00:59:15] Syrians are producing it if the [00:59:17] Iranians, [00:59:18] you know, who who only purchase turnkey [00:59:21] projects from the West during the Sha's [00:59:24] reign, right? So, they didn't actually [00:59:26] know the nuts and bolts of anything. [00:59:27] They just purchased it with here's your [00:59:30] key to your factory right now know every [00:59:33] little bit they make the parts right so [00:59:36] this is what the resistance axis you [00:59:39] know people think it's just [00:59:40] anti-Americanism anti-Israel no the axis [00:59:43] stands for so much more it stands for [00:59:46] actually what you know international law [00:59:48] stands on which is two things [00:59:50] sovereignity and territorial integrity [00:59:52] meaning we will decide our own destiny [00:59:55] we will decide our own form of [00:59:56] governance [00:59:57] We will decide the structure of our [00:59:59] economy, the the the the partners we [01:00:02] will trade with, the the nations we [01:00:05] choose to ally with and have special [01:00:08] relationships with. You don't dictate to [01:00:10] us right now. The Americans are [01:00:12] dictating everything in Lebanon. [01:00:13] Everything, you know, you can't have [01:00:15] Iranian flights here. You can't have [01:00:17] Iranian cornflakes. You know, you just [01:00:19] it's just it's too much. So um of course [01:00:23] this axis has always been um primarily [01:00:28] for self-sufficiency. It is why Iran [01:00:31] will not did not agree to a mutual [01:00:33] defense pact with Russia. They don't [01:00:35] also want any country even a close ally [01:00:38] who can help it maybe in a future war [01:00:39] with Israel or the United States to have [01:00:41] a base in Iran. And the Yemenes won't [01:00:43] allow it either. Do you see any Iranian [01:00:46] bases or Hezbollah bases in like uh SA? [01:00:49] You know you don't. This is not how the [01:00:52] axis works. Self-sufficiency is key. And [01:00:55] by the way, it was a driving principle, [01:00:58] a tenant of um late [01:01:03] force commander Kasim Salmani [01:01:06] is that we do not want to create [01:01:09] dependencies with our allies. [01:01:12] Okay? Iran could have made a lot of [01:01:14] money forever creating dependencies like [01:01:16] the West has, right? um Iran wanted [01:01:19] their allies to be totally [01:01:21] self-sufficient. So that's why we know [01:01:24] the Yemenes are creating their own stuff [01:01:26] and that Hezbollah will continue to do [01:01:28] that and don't need the Syrian roots. [01:01:32] >> Okay, Shireine, we have we have so much [01:01:34] more to talk about, but unfortunately we [01:01:35] don't we don't have enough time. We [01:01:37] didn't even get to talk about Sudan um [01:01:40] of course and how that plays into the [01:01:42] axis of resistance or it did at one [01:01:44] point in its history um and how it's [01:01:46] being you know dismembered basically [01:01:49] piece by piece but you know we'll we'll [01:01:51] have you on again soon. It's always a [01:01:53] pleasure to speak with you and learn [01:01:55] from you Charmaine. Um and hopefully [01:01:57] we'll have you on again. Thank you so [01:01:58] much. [01:02:00] >> Thank you. Look forward to it.