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[00:00:02] hello and welcome to state of play on
[00:00:04] mint Press News The Weekly geopolitical
[00:00:06] News show that addresses an analyzes the
[00:00:08] top international news story that you
[00:00:11] may have missed over the weekend but
[00:00:12] let's be honest this audience didn't
[00:00:15] miss this one tonight we are going to be
[00:00:17] examining the outbreak of sectarian
[00:00:19] violence in Syria how best to interpret
[00:00:21] the information SL disinformation
[00:00:24] landscape surrounding the internal
[00:00:25] security situation in the country and
[00:00:28] what external actors have a vested
[00:00:30] interest in having the violence continue
[00:00:32] I am your host Greg stoker and I joined
[00:00:34] today by Robert enesh a political
[00:00:36] analyst journalist and documentary
[00:00:38] filmmaker who has worked with trt Al
[00:00:41] mayadin English cuds news and is
[00:00:43] currently a staff writer here at mint
[00:00:45] Press News and I personally think he has
[00:00:48] the most balanced and reasonable takes
[00:00:49] on Syria that I've come across thanks so
[00:00:52] much for being here thanks for having me
[00:00:55] all right so I I want to say that uh I I
[00:00:58] don't like covering Syria because the
[00:01:01] seary nature of everything is going to
[00:01:03] going on makes me end up honestly with
[00:01:05] more death threats than I get for
[00:01:06] championing the end of Israeli
[00:01:08] occupation and apartheid like I just
[00:01:11] found like no matter how you cover Syria
[00:01:13] someone's goingon to have a problem with
[00:01:14] it so let me Begin by acknowledging my
[00:01:16] bias with this I'm an anti-war activist
[00:01:19] and analyst and since I am an American
[00:01:21] that means by extension I am
[00:01:24] anti-American imperialism I can't not
[00:01:26] talk about the designs of American
[00:01:28] Israeli Turkish into a lesser extent
[00:01:30] Russian interests in Syria Iranian too
[00:01:33] obviously and um you know I can't not
[00:01:36] bring up the fact that you know uh
[00:01:38] julani now alsara has a complicated past
[00:01:42] you know he was captured by Special
[00:01:44] Operations forces in 2006 and was
[00:01:46] released in 2011 during the outbreak of
[00:01:48] the Syrian Civil War um that's kind of
[00:01:51] suspect I grew up in that Community uh I
[00:01:53] can't pretend that the Israeli and US
[00:01:56] state departments are not very are not
[00:01:58] are very pleased by how the situation
[00:02:02] has unfolded and if you think they have
[00:02:03] serious best interest in mind I don't
[00:02:06] know what to tell you and for the you
[00:02:07] know and I also get uh accused of being
[00:02:09] an assadist uh but then again um we were
[00:02:12] totally prepared to jump in and seize
[00:02:14] Damascus International Airport in
[00:02:16] 2013 uh but Obama called it off uh so
[00:02:20] that was there's that I don't know what
[00:02:22] to tell you guys and I think Syria
[00:02:24] deserves a much more nuanced
[00:02:26] conversation Guided by syrians you'll
[00:02:28] find that there are two separate takes
[00:02:31] with Syria depending on their
[00:02:32] association with Assad which is a great
[00:02:35] distinction from Palestine where there's
[00:02:37] pretty much Universal alignment so I've
[00:02:39] been talking to syrians from different
[00:02:40] backgrounds and regions all weekend I've
[00:02:42] been parsing through video evidence of
[00:02:44] what is going on on the ground and had
[00:02:46] to debunk videos from like 2009 15 all
[00:02:49] the way back to 2011 and Robert is
[00:02:52] expert in this region so enough Soap Box
[00:02:55] time uh let's get into the basics so
[00:02:57] just highlighting some BBC reporting
[00:02:59] just for context y'all um don't even get
[00:03:02] me started on how Al jazer has covered
[00:03:04] this but bearing in mind that the BBC
[00:03:06] was a news Outlet which was part of the
[00:03:08] rehabilitation of Abu Al jolani into the
[00:03:11] interim president Ahmed al-shara uh
[00:03:14] let's just get some basic points so here
[00:03:17] we go Syria says operation against Assad
[00:03:21] loyalists over uh after um deadly
[00:03:25] violence so they've announced an end to
[00:03:26] this uh operation ostensibly so their
[00:03:30] defense Ministry of the new interim
[00:03:32] government says it has completed a
[00:03:33] military operation in the country's
[00:03:35] Western coastal region after days of
[00:03:37] violence in which hundreds of people
[00:03:38] have been killed Security Forces had
[00:03:40] neutralized loyalists of former
[00:03:42] president Bashar al-assad in several
[00:03:44] towns and Latakia and Tartus provinces
[00:03:47] and we're Paving the way for life to
[00:03:49] return to normal a monitoring group um
[00:03:52] the primary one here is going to be the
[00:03:54] Syrian Observatory for human rights um
[00:03:58] it's based out of the UK okay it's some
[00:04:01] of its Affiliates or people affiliated
[00:04:03] with it have received uh US state
[00:04:06] department money that's just something
[00:04:07] we have to bring up but they I was
[00:04:09] actually surprised that they did a good
[00:04:10] job with this because um they have a
[00:04:13] history of problematic reporting gunman
[00:04:15] loyal to the Sunni islamist Le
[00:04:18] government well I can't believe the BBC
[00:04:20] put that in there have been accused of
[00:04:21] carrying out revenge killings against
[00:04:23] members of Assad's minority Alaway sect
[00:04:25] following a deadly Ambush on a security
[00:04:27] patrol uh so basic basically everything
[00:04:30] I've heard from the ground even from
[00:04:32] alaways themselves uh basically in the
[00:04:35] town of jable on the coast uh they uh
[00:04:39] they were government security forces
[00:04:41] were trying to execute a sort of Warrant
[00:04:44] to arrest someone affiliated with the
[00:04:48] Assad government the former the deposed
[00:04:51] government uh the the story is murky
[00:04:54] what happened but it led into an ambush
[00:04:56] uh by pro- Assad elements I'm at least
[00:05:00] they're called assadist I don't think
[00:05:01] they actually believe that they can
[00:05:03] reinstall Assad as a um as a political
[00:05:07] figure in Syria ever again um and that
[00:05:09] sparked the mobilization of not just
[00:05:12] government forces but also militias as
[00:05:15] well and there's like I've heard there's
[00:05:17] over over like 40 different militias in
[00:05:19] Syria associated with the government
[00:05:21] some are uh more secular some are more
[00:05:24] extremists U and They carried out a
[00:05:28] series of Revenge
[00:05:30] killings um on the Alaway minority and I
[00:05:33] don't think they were going off of any
[00:05:35] Intelligence on who these uh gunmen were
[00:05:39] I think they it just seems like a mass
[00:05:41] civilian punishment and kind of a rogue
[00:05:43] action I'm not convinced that galani can
[00:05:46] actually control a lot of these
[00:05:48] people yeah well uh the way that this
[00:05:51] started was you could call it some sort
[00:05:53] of uh an Insurgency or a rebellion uh
[00:05:57] which was led by a the Coastal Guard
[00:06:00] group um I'm not going to get into
[00:06:02] speculation on what I've heard on who
[00:06:04] funds it um because I can't verify that
[00:06:09] information uh yet however there does
[00:06:12] seem to be strong uh evidence to suggest
[00:06:14] that it was receiving some sort of
[00:06:16] logistical support from the stdf um in
[00:06:19] Northeast Syria um again that's not
[00:06:22] confirmed uh but a lot of strong
[00:06:26] indications uh are of that um that group
[00:06:29] itself was formed of former Syrian Arab
[00:06:33] army officers um and and
[00:06:36] soldiers um some of whom for instance
[00:06:39] have been were given amnesty uh when the
[00:06:42] new government took over uh Damascus in
[00:06:45] fact the situation with the the fall of
[00:06:48] Damascus and the overthrow of Bashar Al
[00:06:50] Assad was that many of the Syrian Arab
[00:06:54] army forces were the first ones to enter
[00:06:57] to uh Damascus uh before many of the HTS
[00:07:02] fighters ever came in in order to
[00:07:04] stabilize the situation first so a lot
[00:07:07] of these people were given amnesty but
[00:07:09] what was also going on in the background
[00:07:11] were these field executions over the
[00:07:14] period of about two months they weren't
[00:07:16] what a lot of people expected in terms
[00:07:19] of the scale of these field executions
[00:07:22] uh but it was still quite horrific um
[00:07:24] the video evidence the photographic
[00:07:26] evidence the families uh produced the
[00:07:29] test testimonies so we know that these
[00:07:31] uh field executions were
[00:07:34] ongoing suddenly we had this dayong
[00:07:37] basically Rebellion there was a series
[00:07:40] of ambushes you mentioned the one in Jeb
[00:07:43] um that that occurred um and suddenly
[00:07:47] what this uh became is we're taking out
[00:07:50] the assists the asset loyalists uh the
[00:07:53] remnants of the
[00:07:55] regime um completely pushing aside any
[00:07:59] of the the Grievances that the alawi
[00:08:03] sect which at one point at the end of
[00:08:06] that first day was calling for
[00:08:10] federalization um the Supreme alawi
[00:08:12] Council I believe put out a statement um
[00:08:16] which hinted at
[00:08:17] federalization being protected um
[00:08:20] because of what ended up happening the
[00:08:22] reaction that was coming in um and uh we
[00:08:26] saw that um jalani or Ahmed Shar um sent
[00:08:32] his Security forces in along with
[00:08:35] paramilitary forces uh turkish-backed
[00:08:39] forces um and also then civilians in
[00:08:43] places like idlib were handed
[00:08:46] weapons um and were allowed to go into
[00:08:50] the countryside to basically carry out
[00:08:53] uh Revenge killings um and SE they they
[00:08:57] acted as sectarian death squads um and
[00:09:00] the total death toll we're not too sure
[00:09:03] on right now some people are saying
[00:09:05] 5,000 7,000 for sure it's well in excess
[00:09:09] at least thousand yeah um it's it's
[00:09:12] really impossible for us to tell this
[00:09:14] what the actual uh civilian death toll
[00:09:17] is um at this point uh many areas still
[00:09:20] haven't been reached many of the bodies
[00:09:22] haven't been counted yet but it's very
[00:09:25] clear that this was uh sectarian
[00:09:28] Bloodshed the majority against the alawi
[00:09:30] sect but also against sunnis uh who were
[00:09:34] were neighbors uh to alawi families um
[00:09:38] who stood up for them for instance uh
[00:09:40] were murdered uh them along with other
[00:09:43] family members Sunni family members and
[00:09:45] Christians as well uh that were murdered
[00:09:49] other people were saying Drews and Kurds
[00:09:51] I didn't see any evidence I haven't
[00:09:53] heard I haven't heard about that no I I
[00:09:55] mean there was an incident last week uh
[00:09:57] in the Drews community there was a
[00:09:59] security forces went in there there
[00:10:01] seems to be a sort of a a tick fight uh
[00:10:04] and that seemed to have been resolved or
[00:10:06] at least didn't explode into a wider
[00:10:08] conflict between the the Drews and the
[00:10:10] the
[00:10:11] government yeah there there was some
[00:10:13] fighting but yeah like you said it was
[00:10:16] uh prior it wasn't during uh this
[00:10:19] fighting uh on the coast to the best of
[00:10:21] my knowledge I haven't heard of any TRS
[00:10:24] uh being killed during this time uh but
[00:10:28] what's interesting about this is that
[00:10:30] the reaction has been uh anyone talking
[00:10:34] about this essentially is being called
[00:10:36] an assadist uh they're being called uh
[00:10:40] somebody who supported the uh former uh
[00:10:43] regime there's no Nuance there in fact
[00:10:46] many of these people who were ecstatic
[00:10:48] when jalani took over uh Damascus um are
[00:10:53] pretending as if there were no massacres
[00:10:56] at all because of the stream of
[00:10:58] disinformation
[00:10:59] uh that came in there were fake videos
[00:11:02] for instance there were videos like you
[00:11:04] mentioned at the start which were from
[00:11:06] uh years ago of Isis execution some
[00:11:09] people pulled footage in
[00:11:12] from some people used photos of beheaded
[00:11:15] people from other countries um and so
[00:11:18] there was disinformation passed around
[00:11:20] on this topic and it's very difficult to
[00:11:23] you know know and filter through what
[00:11:26] exactly is uh true when there's such a
[00:11:29] of information like this but we do know
[00:11:32] a huge civilian Massacre or series of
[00:11:36] Civ civilian massacres were committed
[00:11:39] sources on the ground confirm this there
[00:11:41] are a ple of videos recorded by uh
[00:11:46] jolan's men essentially in the security
[00:11:48] forces themselves some of whom were
[00:11:50] bragging about what they were doing
[00:11:52] others uh were filming uh videos uh
[00:11:55] actually uh criticizing uh what had
[00:11:58] happened and what they had seen as well
[00:12:01] uh so that's also something that was
[00:12:03] going on but there were a lot of people
[00:12:06] who uh you know were very loyal uh to
[00:12:09] the side of the Syrian uh before what
[00:12:13] was the Syrian opposition now what uh is
[00:12:15] the Syrian government in Damascus and
[00:12:18] who are uh loyalists to this new
[00:12:21] government uh who were trying to defend
[00:12:24] it essentially either by providing
[00:12:26] justifications about remnants of the
[00:12:28] regime um some people were openly
[00:12:31] talking about the alawites headed coming
[00:12:34] um and others were just flatly denying
[00:12:36] it and saying look there's a all of this
[00:12:37] disinformation nothing happened or
[00:12:40] trying to say that uh the security
[00:12:42] forces didn't carry out any of the
[00:12:44] killings those who have been documenting
[00:12:46] this know that the security forces were
[00:12:48] involved uh because there's video
[00:12:50] evidence of them and because as well all
[00:12:54] of the uh the trustworthy reporting
[00:12:57] that's been done on this indicates that
[00:12:59] the security forces the Syrian Security
[00:13:01] forces were involved in some of the
[00:13:03] atrocities whether they carried out the
[00:13:05] bulk of those atrocities or not it's not
[00:13:08] clear um I would lean towards saying it
[00:13:10] was paramilitary forces um that it was
[00:13:13] these more ra radical techy groups uh
[00:13:16] that carried out these killings um but
[00:13:20] uh that's something that's uh I suppose
[00:13:22] we will see the evidence compiled on
[00:13:25] yeah I mean what I've heard from
[00:13:27] multiple people is like there was two
[00:13:29] specific militias that were B the um
[00:13:31] amshot and hamzat uh militias but of
[00:13:34] course we can't confirm any of this the
[00:13:36] fog of War on this is really thick uh so
[00:13:39] we're gonna have to wait but it's not
[00:13:40] just you know obviously I can't show any
[00:13:42] of the videos here because this is going
[00:13:43] up on YouTube but they were doing some
[00:13:46] security forces were doing some idfs
[00:13:49] stuff saying like yes we're going to
[00:13:51] kill all the allways and you know the
[00:13:53] the ministry of defense is going to
[00:13:54] bring the hammer down essentially and
[00:13:56] they're posting these to they're they're
[00:13:57] posting these to uh
[00:13:59] Facebook uh most most of them so like
[00:14:02] most of the videos I've been sent were
[00:14:04] taken from uh
[00:14:06] HTS Affiliated uh Facebook accounts so
[00:14:11] like just an example
[00:14:44] um yeah just a lot of rants going
[00:14:48] on from I don't know people associated
[00:14:51] with the government so like that's one
[00:14:53] of the more tame things uh we we can
[00:14:56] provide but uh the big question is this
[00:14:58] like an in institutional practice that
[00:15:00] we can trace like we can in the IDF and
[00:15:02] their Gaza policy or if it was just
[00:15:04] these militia groups but um I guess
[00:15:08] moving on do you have a sense that the
[00:15:11] violence is kind of coming to an end now
[00:15:15] this round of violence might be coming
[00:15:17] to an end uh the one thing that we had
[00:15:19] to understand obviously things change
[00:15:21] very rapidly in Syria uh there's just
[00:15:24] been an agreement signed apparently
[00:15:25] between the SDF and the Syrian
[00:15:28] government uh that will over the period
[00:15:30] of a year apparently uh integrate the
[00:15:33] stdf into the Syrian Army uh so again
[00:15:37] it's very hard to tell exactly what will
[00:15:39] happen and when it will happen um this
[00:15:41] is an interesting agreement because the
[00:15:43] SDF apparently were helping the uh
[00:15:46] Uprising which then triggered this uh
[00:15:49] sectarian
[00:15:50] Bloodshed um after it was essentially
[00:15:53] ordered and and permitted but the one
[00:15:55] thing I will say about this incident is
[00:15:58] that
[00:16:00] um essentially he has around with his
[00:16:05] group had around 20,000 uh men um and
[00:16:09] then through Allied militias it's
[00:16:11] estimated around
[00:16:12] 15,000 so that's not actually that many
[00:16:16] the Syrian Army yeah it's tiny Hamas has
[00:16:19] more Fighters than that um for instance
[00:16:22] or that's at least what they did have
[00:16:25] before or the estimates that were
[00:16:26] provided um let's say
[00:16:29] um and so his forces there's not that
[00:16:32] many of them and as we discussed last
[00:16:35] time uh when we were talking about this
[00:16:37] topic there are uh a plethora of
[00:16:40] different groups uh filled in their
[00:16:43] ranks with people who are some a bit
[00:16:45] more moderate some who are secular
[00:16:48] leaning and a lot of them who are uh
[00:16:52] these uh
[00:16:54] T um salafist types these people
[00:16:59] that are extremely radical and uh are
[00:17:05] they have the ideology of that's who
[00:17:09] they are they are
[00:17:12] and that's their ideology then that's
[00:17:16] never changed they're very very extreme
[00:17:19] uh in the way they think and if they're
[00:17:21] not of that ideology many of them also
[00:17:26] adhere to what I would call this uh
[00:17:29] nationalism uh this idea which I would
[00:17:33] say is equivalent to a Muslim Zionism
[00:17:37] where they give a theological backbone
[00:17:40] to a nationalist ideology specifically
[00:17:43] for one sect within Islam this has
[00:17:47] nothing to do with Sunni Islam in my
[00:17:50] opinion the actual Doctrine uh I have
[00:17:53] nothing to do with this as a practicing
[00:17:55] Sun Muslim um but this is something that
[00:17:58] you see with a lot of people who are
[00:18:00] very very very sectarian and you get
[00:18:03] this from people who don't even
[00:18:04] necessarily have to be super religious
[00:18:07] uh to think this way these people um who
[00:18:12] are within the ranks of the different
[00:18:14] groups which are now been merged into
[00:18:16] shalani Security Forces uh are extremely
[00:18:19] radical and they're not going to change
[00:18:22] and if you unleash them on any area
[00:18:24] where there's a rebellion this sort of
[00:18:26] stuff is going to happen again and again
[00:18:28] and again um and it seems like uh jalani
[00:18:33] has allowed it to happen it was obvious
[00:18:35] what was going to happen in my opinion
[00:18:37] when he was ordering this um I I I and
[00:18:42] others could see it from a mile away as
[00:18:44] soon as this was called I I saw the
[00:18:46] speech go up um I feared the worst and
[00:18:49] we already had these massacres that were
[00:18:52] happening at the time but essentially he
[00:18:55] was giving the green light to the most
[00:18:58] radical
[00:18:59] uh elements uh within his ranks and so
[00:19:04] because of the fact that we have a
[00:19:07] situation like this um and for instance
[00:19:09] they drew the security forces from
[00:19:11] across the country um it took a lot of
[00:19:14] effort for them to come and try and
[00:19:16] quell this I have a feeling that things
[00:19:19] like this could possibly happen again if
[00:19:21] there's not anything put in place uh to
[00:19:24] safeguard it from stopping um and it's
[00:19:26] not even clear that all of the killing
[00:19:28] has stopped stopped yet uh looks like
[00:19:31] there's still uh you know sectarian
[00:19:34] killing ongoing even though apparently
[00:19:37] the Security operation as they call it
[00:19:40] uh is done and so I would say that it is
[00:19:44] likely that these sort of things are
[00:19:46] going to happen and and it robs
[00:19:50] uhmed of uh legitimacy in in in my eyes
[00:19:55] he's going to struggle now to get
[00:19:57] legitimacy amongst the minorities
[00:19:59] it's going to be very difficult for him
[00:20:02] um because people are going to genuinely
[00:20:04] fear the men who are on his side and not
[00:20:06] only that uh we don't have confirmation
[00:20:10] of these videos but it seems like uh
[00:20:13] helicopters were being used uh to bomb
[00:20:15] different sites in the countryside and
[00:20:18] you had to ask yourself who were flying
[00:20:19] those
[00:20:20] helicopters were they Jalan men uh who
[00:20:24] when they first arrived in halb or Leo
[00:20:28] um
[00:20:29] they they had to go on YouTube to try
[00:20:31] and find out how to fly these things or
[00:20:33] were they former people who were with
[00:20:35] the Syrian Arab Army who were flying
[00:20:37] them previously who were being accused
[00:20:39] by these same people who are now
[00:20:41] loyalists of this government of uh being
[00:20:44] the people dropping Barrel bombs and and
[00:20:47] indiscriminate Munitions from
[00:20:49] helicopters on civilian
[00:20:51] areas obviously it's going to be the
[00:20:54] people from the former government or
[00:20:55] it's going to be foreigners that are
[00:20:57] brought in people who are specialist who
[00:20:59] know how to uh do this so it you have to
[00:21:03] look at this it's a very very complex
[00:21:05] picture uh but if I had to predict it I
[00:21:09] would say there's a a strong likelihood
[00:21:11] that there will be more sectarian
[00:21:13] violence it might not be on the coast um
[00:21:16] it might be in the South and and it's
[00:21:18] not just that I think that this could
[00:21:21] happen again um it it's it's two factors
[00:21:24] primary factors number one is that there
[00:21:27] are a lot of foreign actors that are
[00:21:30] bidding on sectarian violence that are
[00:21:32] trying to take advantage of this
[00:21:33] situation to essentially either cause
[00:21:36] permanent chaos or balkanize Syria and
[00:21:41] then I have serious questions around
[00:21:43] Ahmed Shar and his ability to uh bring
[00:21:46] the country together at at this point
[00:21:49] because of the way that this was handled
[00:21:51] um and then the propaganda that followed
[00:21:53] as well um and the fact that there has
[00:21:55] been uh very little Mercy shown very
[00:22:00] it's not like uh you know there they've
[00:22:03] taken this seriously if this wasn't his
[00:22:06] security forces and he and he believed
[00:22:08] that this is all uh this is all uh lies
[00:22:13] against uh his uh government then you
[00:22:17] should come out and you should uh oppose
[00:22:20] this very strongly um and oppose this
[00:22:23] kind of sectarian killing but what we
[00:22:26] have from people who support this
[00:22:27] government is a lot of uh
[00:22:30] deflecting and a lot of denial as well
[00:22:34] um when clearly we do know that
[00:22:36] sectarian killing and bloodshed has
[00:22:38] occurred yeah well um generally what I
[00:22:42] hear when I bring up these points is you
[00:22:44] know the main criticism is I am
[00:22:47] discrediting the
[00:22:50] revolution so uh let's look at some of
[00:22:53] his uh own
[00:22:55] words here uh given yesterday about
[00:22:58] these killings and apparently they're
[00:23:00] going to put together a seveners
[00:23:02] commission to uh investigate these war
[00:23:05] crimes the sectarian violence but I
[00:23:07] would not expect anything to come out of
[00:23:15] thatd um I'm going to transliterate for
[00:23:18] those of you who are only listen to the
[00:23:21] audio some of the um some of the
[00:23:23] remnants of the Fallen regime sought to
[00:23:26] test new Syria that they did not and
[00:23:28] here they are getting to know it it as
[00:23:33] one and unified from east to west from
[00:23:36] north to south if a province is touched
[00:23:39] by a thorn all the provinces will rally
[00:23:43] to support it in honor in Syria today
[00:23:46] there is no difference between the
[00:23:47] authority and the people Syria um yeah
[00:23:51] is concerned about
[00:23:53] everyone to preserve and support this
[00:23:56] was embodied last night no fear for a
[00:23:59] country with such a people and such a
[00:24:02] spirit remnants in the Battle of
[00:24:06] Liberation is Keen on your life anyways
[00:24:10] yes um a lot of words along those lines
[00:24:14] uh basically not acknowledging that that
[00:24:16] was happening at all and then one of the
[00:24:18] things that's interesting now um in
[00:24:20] terms of him trying to send a unifying
[00:24:22] message to the country you pointed this
[00:24:24] out earlier uh he didn't really address
[00:24:27] the concerns of minorities
[00:24:28] at all no he he'll use this language of
[00:24:32] we need to be unified but then what are
[00:24:35] their concerns of these people you've
[00:24:37] allowed for these fugs essentially for
[00:24:41] two months to just get away with what
[00:24:44] they're doing yes there have been cases
[00:24:46] of people being held accountable but
[00:24:49] it's still happening and why is it still
[00:24:51] happening and then you have to address
[00:24:53] their concerns eventually after two
[00:24:55] months of ongoing field executions and
[00:24:58] it's not just that it's not just the
[00:25:00] field executions because that affects
[00:25:02] some people but a lot of those cases
[00:25:04] were actually against people who were
[00:25:06] former members of the Syrian Arab Army
[00:25:08] and security uh apparatus of there was
[00:25:11] supposed to be there was supposed to be
[00:25:13] an amnesty agreement about that though
[00:25:16] down your arms yeah that's the exact
[00:25:19] problem as well is there were supposed
[00:25:20] to be this amnesty agreement but then
[00:25:22] these people are getting pulled out of
[00:25:23] their houses and shot in the street and
[00:25:26] obviously people don't feel secure but
[00:25:28] the big problem is the economy was
[00:25:30] tanking the economy was getting worse
[00:25:33] under uh the new government than it was
[00:25:35] during uh the rule of bashad people they
[00:25:39] were Mass layoffs in government
[00:25:41] positions Mass layoffs at hospitals uh
[00:25:44] factories are shutting down um and the
[00:25:47] country is not improving economically
[00:25:50] and so all of the elements are there for
[00:25:53] these sort of rebellions to take place
[00:25:55] and especially if you don't address
[00:25:56] their concerns and then on top of it if
[00:25:59] these sectarian nut jobs who that's what
[00:26:03] they are uh are allowed to still have
[00:26:06] weapons and you allow them in your
[00:26:07] security Force maybe because you're
[00:26:09] scared that if you don't they might do
[00:26:12] something to you and they might try and
[00:26:14] over for the state because this is a
[00:26:15] thing when they talk about uh the
[00:26:17] revolution winning and all of this in
[00:26:20] reality what happened is there was no
[00:26:23] war at the end there was no battle the
[00:26:25] Syrian Arab Army didn't fight the the
[00:26:28] original operation was planned just for
[00:26:31] Aleppo That was supposed to be an
[00:26:33] eight-month Affair that's what they
[00:26:35] prepared for and they were prepare for a
[00:26:37] big battle but they weren't prepared to
[00:26:39] take the entire country and they didn't
[00:26:41] know that the entire Syrian Army was
[00:26:43] just going to collapsed it was going to
[00:26:45] fall and it wasn't going to fight um and
[00:26:47] many of them would defect they didn't
[00:26:49] know that that was going to happen so
[00:26:51] there wasn't actually a war to take over
[00:26:54] in the end in 2018 it turned into a sort
[00:26:57] of Frozen conflict um with occasional
[00:27:01] flare-ups and then suddenly the Syrian
[00:27:04] Army fell uh Bashar Assad's regime fell
[00:27:08] and now the opposition are in charge but
[00:27:12] you have to be you know for people that
[00:27:14] say well this is uh you're undermining
[00:27:16] the revolution when you say this exactly
[00:27:19] what element of it is being undermined
[00:27:22] to say that sectarian death squads
[00:27:24] should not be killing minorities that's
[00:27:27] not undermining anything that's a like
[00:27:29] that's a criticism a normal criticism of
[00:27:34] any government of any movement whether
[00:27:36] it's a National Liberation movement
[00:27:38] that's struggling to uh create a state
[00:27:41] or it's a uh an actual government that's
[00:27:44] formed it doesn't matter that's a normal
[00:27:47] conversation to have that's a normal
[00:27:49] criticism to have I think many people
[00:27:52] many many people wanted uh there to be
[00:27:56] peace and stability unfortunately there
[00:27:58] is an enormous amount of outside actors
[00:28:02] uh chiefly amongst them Israel uh which
[00:28:05] wants to divide the country um into
[00:28:09] these essentially uh
[00:28:11] sectarian uh or States yeah client
[00:28:15] states that they would have some sort of
[00:28:17] relations with um and would essentially
[00:28:21] expand their power and then undermine
[00:28:23] the power of whatever regime would be
[00:28:25] run from Damascus um and and that's
[00:28:29] their aims so there are a lot of
[00:28:30] conspiracies against this government but
[00:28:32] at the same time this is a civilian uh
[00:28:37] these are civilian massacres and they
[00:28:39] can't be undermined to say yes there's
[00:28:41] an Israeli conspiracy or there is uh you
[00:28:44] know there's an agreement struck here
[00:28:46] between this player and this player and
[00:28:48] these people who did this Uprising and
[00:28:50] killed just over a dozen Security Forces
[00:28:54] on one day they were people that used to
[00:28:56] be affiliated with the Arab Army
[00:28:59] commanders uh and even corrupt people um
[00:29:02] uh before uh that because they killed
[00:29:06] just over a dozen Security Forces
[00:29:08] there's this massive plot and therefore
[00:29:09] let's just ignore more than a thousand
[00:29:13] this is what seems to be the accepted
[00:29:15] figure at this point um it could
[00:29:17] possibly be more more than a thousand
[00:29:19] civilians being killed confirmed cases
[00:29:23] of entire families being gunned down in
[00:29:26] their homes for their sex
[00:29:29] these are the sort of things that people
[00:29:31] were arguing that they wanted the
[00:29:32] revolution to stop that's what the
[00:29:35] original arguments that a lot of these
[00:29:37] people were providing we don't want this
[00:29:39] sort of Bloodshed to happen where people
[00:29:41] can just be killed in their homes for
[00:29:42] criticizing the government or whatever
[00:29:45] and and being taken and tortured for
[00:29:47] criticizing the government well what
[00:29:49] just happened here what happened here
[00:29:51] was specifically in this case and and
[00:29:54] and this is something uh that has to be
[00:29:56] pointed out this was the specific
[00:29:58] targeting of adawi uh the adawi sect um
[00:30:03] and also others who criticized they
[00:30:06] killed sunnis who
[00:30:08] criticized was wasn't a Sunni Sheik
[00:30:12] killed in Damascus executed in Damascus
[00:30:14] for condemning uh these killings yeah
[00:30:17] and I believe that that wasn't according
[00:30:20] to the information that at least was
[00:30:22] passed on to me that was um was not
[00:30:25] ordered by the security forces
[00:30:28] um I may be wrong again on that I may
[00:30:31] have the incorrect information that was
[00:30:33] carried out by independent elements but
[00:30:36] still this is the thing they operate in
[00:30:39] an environment where that sort of uh
[00:30:43] those sort of actions can take place
[00:30:45] that these sort of uh Revenge killings
[00:30:47] or killings uh for the sake and torture
[00:30:50] uh because he was tortured first that's
[00:30:53] at least what the evidence suggests that
[00:30:55] this sort of thing can go on and that
[00:30:58] people feel emboldened enough to and
[00:31:01] that they live in an environment where
[00:31:04] that they can get away with this and
[00:31:06] that's something that needs to be
[00:31:07] addressed that cannot exist in a normal
[00:31:10] functional State and in fact you look at
[00:31:12] the way that the European Union started
[00:31:14] addressing this and talking about the
[00:31:16] attack on the uh on the security forces
[00:31:20] uh while hundreds of people at that time
[00:31:23] were being Mass murdered and and this is
[00:31:27] this really speaks to what the European
[00:31:28] Union and Western countries roles in
[00:31:31] Syria have always been not to safeguard
[00:31:34] the civilian population at the end of
[00:31:36] the day there were a lot of people that
[00:31:38] were advocating for the sanctions on the
[00:31:41] regime of Bashar Al Assad um who were
[00:31:44] saying no it's just hitting Bashar who
[00:31:46] were on the opposition side they had a
[00:31:48] strategy that they wanted to remove him
[00:31:50] that's their strategic side of this but
[00:31:53] let's look at what was actually
[00:31:54] happening the people were poor Bashar Al
[00:31:57] Assad he had a massive car collection
[00:31:59] and lived uh in a rather luxurious
[00:32:02] lifestyle it didn't affect him just like
[00:32:05] the sanes did not affect Saddam Hussein
[00:32:08] the issue here that we have is that
[00:32:10] people have a very very short memory um
[00:32:13] and they're not able to critically
[00:32:15] analyze what's happening in terms of yes
[00:32:17] there's foreign actors that are behaving
[00:32:19] but you have to be able to criticize
[00:32:21] what is going on when this sort of
[00:32:23] killing happens you have to look at what
[00:32:26] connections are actually being made here
[00:32:28] it is a very complicated picture um you
[00:32:31] know either vzz can get it wrong and
[00:32:33] right on on one day or the other um so
[00:32:37] anyone can be wrong or right about
[00:32:39] what's going on in Syria at different
[00:32:41] points it's very hard to say I know
[00:32:43] conclusively what is going on and I can
[00:32:46] tell you the objective truth of Syria no
[00:32:49] one can really do that but what we have
[00:32:51] to do is avoid getting into uh these
[00:32:54] tradeoffs yelling names at each other um
[00:32:57] and and and sectarian incitement
[00:33:00] essentially um FNA we we don't want to
[00:33:04] get into this battle now there's a new
[00:33:06] Syrian government that has to be
[00:33:08] accepted but it cannot get away with
[00:33:11] this sort of behavior how are the
[00:33:13] minorities ever going to accept an
[00:33:16] Administration that does this I don't
[00:33:17] know whether they can because all of us
[00:33:20] whove been watching this have been
[00:33:21] shocked but I know many friends in Syria
[00:33:25] who are Sunni by the way who are pulled
[00:33:28] by this but they're scared to talk about
[00:33:30] it and what does that tell you about
[00:33:32] this
[00:33:34] government it it's not a good sign yeah
[00:33:37] it's it's really not and there's um a
[00:33:40] number of other signs that aren't
[00:33:42] exactly great now first of all he's
[00:33:45] calling um Al sh the interim president
[00:33:47] is calling for Unity from east to west
[00:33:50] north to south and they have a massive
[00:33:53] sovereignty problem on their southern
[00:33:56] border bringing this up right
[00:34:01] now Times of Israel from
[00:34:04] yesterday IDF says it seiz destroyed
[00:34:07] weapons and targeted raid in southern
[00:34:09] Syria Army confirms reports of action
[00:34:11] beyond the buffer zone issues footage
[00:34:14] from operations so we have some pictures
[00:34:17] here um these guys look like Special
[00:34:19] Operations forces the isra military said
[00:34:22] Saturday carried out several targeted
[00:34:24] raids in southern Syria over the past
[00:34:25] week while issuing footage from his
[00:34:27] operation operations the IDF uh you know
[00:34:29] the weapons included rifles ammunitions
[00:34:31] rockets and other military gear and you
[00:34:34] know earlier this week Syrian media
[00:34:36] reported that Israeli forces were
[00:34:38] operating near Tel Alm or Tel almal peak
[00:34:42] in the D Governor T it uh where a
[00:34:45] military post belonging to former Syrian
[00:34:47] regime once stood um the hill is located
[00:34:51] some 13 kilomet from Israel's border
[00:34:53] well outside of buffer zone between the
[00:34:55] countries that Israel captured following
[00:34:57] the fall of basar Al Assad so basically
[00:35:01] the IDF has described uh its presence in
[00:35:04] southern Syria's buffer zone as a
[00:35:05] temporary and defensive measure though
[00:35:09] defense minister Israel Katz has said
[00:35:11] the troops will remain deployed to nine
[00:35:13] Army posts in the area indefinitely so
[00:35:17] there's something interesting in terms
[00:35:19] of the uh information landscape going on
[00:35:21] first of all uh Israel at first let's
[00:35:24] just generalize Israel as their media
[00:35:27] apparatus so at first they celebrated
[00:35:30] the fall of Bashar Al Assad you know he
[00:35:33] was a big uh he was the big axis of
[00:35:37] resistance guy he wasn't but he allowed
[00:35:39] arms and intelligence to flow through
[00:35:41] Syria um in exchange for certain perks
[00:35:44] but uh now what um because I monitor
[00:35:48] their hasbara accounts now what they're
[00:35:50] saying is they're doing this campaign to
[00:35:54] basically highlight the fact that Jo was
[00:35:58] former
[00:35:59] Al-Qaeda and all of his HTS guys are
[00:36:03] extremists so uh it's an interesting
[00:36:06] Dynamic where the Western media tried so
[00:36:09] hard to completely rehabilitate him uh
[00:36:12] to Western audiences and now Israel's uh
[00:36:15] their their apparatus is basically no
[00:36:17] he's a terrorist we're not safe we need
[00:36:20] to invade more and we can't leave Syria
[00:36:22] in order to protect our own borders so I
[00:36:24] was wondering if you could comment on
[00:36:25] those Dynamics
[00:36:28] well which HTS was
[00:36:32] formerly which was in Syria that's a
[00:36:36] fact was formerly a commander in dases
[00:36:40] these are facts these were also facts
[00:36:42] when Israel was providing Military
[00:36:45] Support uh uh it was providing uh
[00:36:49] financial support and it was treating
[00:36:52] the fighters of alra uh in field
[00:36:55] hospitals because that's what they were
[00:36:57] doing
[00:36:58] and this was at the time when nusra was
[00:37:00] at a very radical point and was carrying
[00:37:03] out
[00:37:04] massacres of the likes of Drews it was
[00:37:07] carrying out massacres of the Drews it
[00:37:09] was cast carrying out massacres of
[00:37:11] Christians and of ADI at those times so
[00:37:14] Israel now turns around and goes oh look
[00:37:16] how horrible this group is um and look
[00:37:19] these are these are uh islamists and
[00:37:22] terrorists and we can't allow these
[00:37:23] people on our border Israel was backing
[00:37:27] around a dozen groups opposition groups
[00:37:30] many of them with ideologies very
[00:37:32] similar
[00:37:34] to
[00:37:35] yes did somewhat change in its
[00:37:39] orientation over the years uh in idlib
[00:37:43] um especially after sort of 2017 2018 it
[00:37:47] it developed into something a little bit
[00:37:49] different it still had many of these
[00:37:51] fighters in its ranks uh these radical
[00:37:53] fighters in its ranks uh during this
[00:37:55] time and and still does today
[00:37:58] um but Israel backed it Israel provided
[00:38:01] funding for it they didn't care so much
[00:38:03] when they were literally quite literally
[00:38:05] on the border of the Golan Heights of
[00:38:07] the occupied portion of the golen
[00:38:09] heights that they uh remained in they
[00:38:12] didn't care in fact they were going back
[00:38:14] and forth across the border and they
[00:38:15] weren't threatened by the islamist
[00:38:18] extremists this is just an excuse it's
[00:38:20] just an excuse to attack Syria to seize
[00:38:24] more territory um and to help as well
[00:38:27] because now they have the argument and
[00:38:29] again this is why it's so frustrating
[00:38:31] watching some people try and defend what
[00:38:33] has happened in the countryside because
[00:38:36] that is playing into Israel's hands
[00:38:39] these these these targeting the
[00:38:41] sectarian uh killings are playing into
[00:38:45] Israel's hands as soon as those Security
[00:38:47] Forces start carrying out those killings
[00:38:50] now there's a justification for Israel
[00:38:51] to come in and work with another foreign
[00:38:53] power in order to make uh a separate uh
[00:38:57] State uh for any group whether they be
[00:39:00] Drews um obviously they've been working
[00:39:02] the Kurdish issue was a little bit
[00:39:04] different but Israel is still been
[00:39:05] working with them um to pursue their own
[00:39:09] goals um and then on the coast uh with
[00:39:12] the aloi to be some sort of protectorate
[00:39:15] and so it plays into their hands um and
[00:39:18] then that's what we've seen now is that
[00:39:20] they're saying oh look uh you know these
[00:39:23] islamists are killing the minorities and
[00:39:25] Israel stands with the minorities
[00:39:28] when the groups that were killing these
[00:39:30] minorities the entire time so they
[00:39:32] propped them up and they worked with
[00:39:34] other Western regimes and intelligence
[00:39:36] agencies to prop them up and then they
[00:39:38] go oh look how horrible they are let's
[00:39:40] bomb the entire country invade these
[00:39:42] places and steal the land and then you
[00:39:44] know back the uh minority groups so it's
[00:39:47] just
[00:39:48] hypocritical right and so um what is
[00:39:52] your take on the the bul we talk a lot
[00:39:56] about the interests certain foreign
[00:39:59] interests wanting to bulane Syria I
[00:40:02] think we should talk about that and kind
[00:40:04] of like break it down the different
[00:40:07] interests and what why they want
[00:40:08] balkanization and not a strong central
[00:40:10] government in Syria and of course it's
[00:40:13] hard to speculate how all this is going
[00:40:15] to turn out because as you brought up
[00:40:16] breaking now SDF is now going to
[00:40:20] apparently and this could fall apart at
[00:40:22] any time integrate with the uh the HTS
[00:40:25] interim government a military a military
[00:40:28] uh vertical uh integration so I don't
[00:40:32] know how that's going to work out
[00:40:33] because they don't even have a strong
[00:40:34] central military
[00:40:35] Authority which is why they have 40
[00:40:38] different like militias running around
[00:40:39] doing whatever the hell they want so uh
[00:40:41] it it looks like it's going to be a huge
[00:40:43] mess and it's not going to get resolved
[00:40:45] in any sort of uh clean way and I do
[00:40:48] think there's going to be more intern
[00:40:50] aene violence but
[00:40:53] balkanization
[00:40:56] why well uh this could serve uh a
[00:40:59] variety of interests of different
[00:41:01] interests um and we have to uh we have
[00:41:06] to look at it in terms of what different
[00:41:09] powers might want now um and then what
[00:41:13] they may uh have wanted in the past for
[00:41:16] instance um there's been a lot of
[00:41:19] documents shared uh around uh from the
[00:41:22] US government the Hillary Clinton uh
[00:41:24] leaked emails about wanting to prolong
[00:41:27] the conflict in Syria and just have
[00:41:29] ongoing chaos and make sure that the
[00:41:31] situation never is resolved um and
[00:41:34] that's because they don't want a strong
[00:41:36] central government in Syria that will be
[00:41:39] armed that would have weapons the
[00:41:40] Israelis are very clear about that they
[00:41:42] will not allow a strong uh Syrian Army
[00:41:46] to ever emerge again they've explicitly
[00:41:48] stated this the United States are the
[00:41:50] same way they they've made sure they uh
[00:41:53] uh the second the uh Assad fled they
[00:41:57] instituted a massive bombing campaign of
[00:41:59] the Syrian Army's military and material
[00:42:03] infrastructure absolutely straight away
[00:42:06] they went to it and it was pre uh
[00:42:08] pre-prepared and at that point I don't
[00:42:10] think anyone exactly knew um when the
[00:42:13] offensive against uh Aleppo was launched
[00:42:16] that the government was going to fall so
[00:42:18] rapidly I don't think anyone could have
[00:42:20] predicted that really uh but uh
[00:42:23] certainly uh the Israelis wanted to see
[00:42:27] vulcanization from the very beginning
[00:42:29] that was their uh plan for a very long
[00:42:31] time they've wanted to extend this
[00:42:33] buffer zone they've been talking about
[00:42:36] uh a Drew uh state which they put under
[00:42:39] their protection uh since uh essentially
[00:42:44] more than a decade now they've been
[00:42:45] talking about this and putting out
[00:42:47] different plans and proposals um
[00:42:50] specifically for this buffer zone and
[00:42:52] what it will look like and now they're
[00:42:53] doing basically exactly that and they
[00:42:55] need the Drews there to help them do
[00:42:57] that if it's going to work absolutely
[00:43:00] and you know I just wanted to bring up
[00:43:01] you know Israelis have a lot of
[00:43:03] different doctrines right you've got the
[00:43:05] DIA Doctrine the mass Collective
[00:43:07] punishment of civilians in order to put
[00:43:08] pre political pressure on the associated
[00:43:12] military uh to that population you got
[00:43:14] the Hannibal directive you have all
[00:43:15] these different doctrines and what we're
[00:43:17] kind of and they've been instituted for
[00:43:19] a long time and it's kind of interesting
[00:43:21] or fascinating that the Israeli
[00:43:23] apparatus doesn't really change their
[00:43:25] tactics that much so what this and I've
[00:43:27] been bringing this up for the past three
[00:43:30] days I'm just trying to get it into the
[00:43:31] public discourse so you guys can
[00:43:33] recognize these certain like
[00:43:36] multi-generational aspects of Israeli
[00:43:39] foreign policy and so with the Drew's
[00:43:41] client state that they're talking about
[00:43:43] specifically we're going to just bring
[00:43:45] up the most basic uh definition of their
[00:43:48] Alliance of the periphery or doctrine of
[00:43:51] the periphery which refers to a foreign
[00:43:53] policy strategy developed by Israeli
[00:43:55] Prime Minister David beneran in 1999
[00:43:58] mayor Amit the head of the Massad
[00:44:00] described it quote as an alliance with
[00:44:02] all the actors in the Middle East who
[00:44:04] are not Muslim Arabs and so the the
[00:44:08] alliance how it was originally conceived
[00:44:12] would uh include Turkey um be at the
[00:44:16] time the Imperial state of Iran
[00:44:18] pre-revolution uh Ethiopian uh Ethiopia
[00:44:22] but
[00:44:23] also uh Drews cops Kurds berbers middle
[00:44:27] Eastern Christians South sudin and you
[00:44:31] know it was thought to insulate them
[00:44:34] buffer a buffer zone and they use the
[00:44:36] term periphery because they are they see
[00:44:39] themselves as the core and all these
[00:44:40] little groups and other actors in the
[00:44:43] periphery uh which would act as buffers
[00:44:46] uh if they couldn't actually hold ground
[00:44:48] or take the territory themselves they
[00:44:50] want client states and client actors
[00:44:53] that will further their goals in the
[00:44:55] region and give them political cover for
[00:44:58] like the Dirty Work That far-right
[00:45:00] marinite Christians did um during their
[00:45:03] occupation of Lebanon and the 80s so
[00:45:06] just that's just one
[00:45:07] example and they do need these uh
[00:45:10] minority groups in in said country in
[00:45:13] order to uh occupy the territory or else
[00:45:16] they're going to stretch their army I
[00:45:18] mean their arm is already way
[00:45:20] overstretched at this point um and if it
[00:45:22] needs to be called into the West Bank
[00:45:24] for instance uh to quill and Uprising uh
[00:45:28] it's going to be in a lot of trouble if
[00:45:29] it also wants to occupy territory in
[00:45:31] Syria or and territory in southern
[00:45:33] Lebanon um obviously it's not wanting to
[00:45:36] operate the same sort of occupation that
[00:45:39] it once had in southern Lebanon but it's
[00:45:40] still around a kilometer deep into their
[00:45:42] territory in some areas um and in
[00:45:44] Lebanon they did they used the South
[00:45:46] Lebanon Army uh so they used these uh
[00:45:49] Hardline fascist militia forces um and
[00:45:53] essentially formed uh their uh their
[00:45:57] proxy uh to rule over South Lebanon and
[00:46:01] do their dirty work and similarly here
[00:46:04] uh it looks like the very same Doctrine
[00:46:06] that's uh coming into play and again
[00:46:08] they've worked at at this specific
[00:46:11] buffer zone plan for more than a decade
[00:46:14] this specific one that we're seeing here
[00:46:16] with the two uh you know phased approach
[00:46:19] of where they want to occupy um they've
[00:46:22] known for a long time where they wanted
[00:46:24] to be inside of the country but how
[00:46:27] exactly that was going to look they
[00:46:28] started developing it around 2013 they
[00:46:31] really took it uh very seriously uh and
[00:46:35] so uh the Israelis you know they clearly
[00:46:37] want to expand uh their territory expand
[00:46:40] their borders U depending upon which uh
[00:46:43] Israeli politician or political party uh
[00:46:46] you speak to they will give a different
[00:46:48] answer as to how far those borders are
[00:46:50] supposed to extend but it's very very
[00:46:52] clear that they want their influence uh
[00:46:55] to be absolute they want to be uh the uh
[00:46:59] rulers of West Asia they do not want a
[00:47:04] uh a an opposition of any kind that can
[00:47:08] rise against them that is notable in any
[00:47:11] way um they want Total victory that is
[00:47:15] the message of Benyamin Netanyahu total
[00:47:18] Victory which means crushing completely
[00:47:21] the enemies throughout the region and
[00:47:23] that extends to Iran as well because the
[00:47:26] biggest enemies in the region are Iran
[00:47:29] and its uh Allied actors and so they're
[00:47:34] not going to allow a threat to develop
[00:47:37] uh in Syria especially one that could be
[00:47:39] independent which would eventually have
[00:47:41] to Ally itself with Iran in some way um
[00:47:45] and and this is something of a
[00:47:47] discussion that's been coming up because
[00:47:49] how does this new Syrian government uh
[00:47:52] resist the Israelis when the Israelis
[00:47:54] are talking about now coming to Damascus
[00:47:56] and occupying Damascus uh perhaps or and
[00:47:59] they're very very close to Damascus
[00:48:01] they're not far away now um and you know
[00:48:04] the answer to that question is obviously
[00:48:06] the one actor that's going to back you
[00:48:09] uh is Iran but you know these uh this
[00:48:13] new government has taken a position
[00:48:15] against Iran so what do you do now um
[00:48:18] and Ahmed he's in sort of an impossible
[00:48:22] position but again now after what we saw
[00:48:25] in the coast why
[00:48:27] uh what excuse is there for not
[00:48:29] mobilizing your men against the Israelis
[00:48:32] when they were mobilized in such a way
[00:48:33] in the coast so the Israelis now uh are
[00:48:37] committing these violations uh there's
[00:48:40] calls for Jihad in the mosques uh near D
[00:48:45] and uh in the south of the country the
[00:48:47] people are being forced from their homes
[00:48:49] and the situation is quite dire there
[00:48:52] and it's very obvious what Israel's
[00:48:53] intentions are yet not a single bullet
[00:48:55] has been fired towards the Israeli
[00:48:57] forces in over two months nothing has
[00:48:59] really materialized the only thing we've
[00:49:01] heard is a statement that came at the
[00:49:04] Arab League meeting which seemed to have
[00:49:06] changed um and sort of done a 180 on uh
[00:49:10] the Syrian leadership's position but
[00:49:13] previously before that it was basically
[00:49:17] uh putting out uh feelers for
[00:49:19] normalization with Israel while it was
[00:49:20] still occupying the country um it's an
[00:49:24] incredibly complex picture to try and
[00:49:26] predicts where this will go uh what will
[00:49:29] happen if a organic resistance uh forms
[00:49:34] in the south of the country um will the
[00:49:36] government forces back it if the
[00:49:39] Israelis choose to go on to Damascus
[00:49:41] what will happen in that case um will
[00:49:44] the leadership run will they stand firm
[00:49:47] and perhaps be assassinated by Israeli
[00:49:50] airri it's so difficult to understand
[00:49:53] what like the thinking of this new
[00:49:55] Administration is um I do have a
[00:49:59] prediction and hopefully we'll never
[00:50:01] have to find out but if there is an
[00:50:02] armed Uprising in the South against
[00:50:04] Israeli occupation I could totally see
[00:50:07] after what just happened I could totally
[00:50:08] see uh HTS rolling in there to put down
[00:50:13] violently uh the uprising against
[00:50:15] Israeli
[00:50:16] forces I I think it would be slightly
[00:50:20] more difficult to do that um I you may
[00:50:23] be completely correct um especially if
[00:50:26] it comes
[00:50:27] uh that resistance comes from
[00:50:29] minorities um but it may be very very
[00:50:32] difficult to justify doing something
[00:50:33] like that um and it's not even promised
[00:50:36] that the Israelis will discriminate
[00:50:37] between who they're bombing in that case
[00:50:39] they might just bomb yeah I wouldn't I
[00:50:41] wouldn't Bank on that um I would say for
[00:50:45] them to do that when it comes to the
[00:50:47] Palestinian issue and when it comes to
[00:50:49] the Israelis to put down a group
[00:50:52] directly that is of syrians in the South
[00:50:55] um that is opposing his Israeli
[00:50:57] occupation might be very difficult
[00:50:59] unless perhaps uh we see that that group
[00:51:03] wants to separate from the Syrian
[00:51:06] government then maybe through whipping
[00:51:08] up this sectarian hatred um then you
[00:51:12] might have a justification for uh
[00:51:15] assaults on those forces uh it again
[00:51:19] it's so so difficult to predict where
[00:51:21] this will go that it's hard to call it
[00:51:25] um honestly I I
[00:51:27] I don't know whether to comment on one
[00:51:30] uh one way or another on this a lot of
[00:51:33] people have fixed views I
[00:51:35] don't no um I I I didn't I did not see
[00:51:39] the SDF signing any sort of agreement
[00:51:41] with the government but hey it happened
[00:51:42] and you know uh they may have
[00:51:45] experienced who knows some political
[00:51:48] pressure uh from the United States to do
[00:51:50] so uh as you know we backed the SDF
[00:51:53] publicly they're they're the one group
[00:51:56] in in in Syria that we've publicly
[00:51:58] backed we've also done a lot of
[00:51:59] clandestine backing of more problematic
[00:52:02] people because you know it was a good
[00:52:04] propaganda uh point for us uh when we
[00:52:06] were trying to discredit the Assad
[00:52:08] regime and overthrow him it's like these
[00:52:10] Kurds are oppressed you know um they're
[00:52:13] not Muslim extremists you know they're
[00:52:16] safe you know they they they want to be
[00:52:18] free and do a democracy thing in the AES
[00:52:22] so they were um you know we've always
[00:52:24] had an intelligence and Military
[00:52:26] relationship with them and of course the
[00:52:28] United States has betrayed the Kurds
[00:52:30] multiple times um uh but yes the that
[00:52:34] was surprising I could see some
[00:52:36] political pressure um I do think the
[00:52:38] United States is pleased with the Syrian
[00:52:40] government and the chaos that's
[00:52:42] surrounding it uh I was talking to some
[00:52:44] people in Damascus and they they had the
[00:52:48] sense that when it came to why the
[00:52:50] Syrian Army didn't fight and these this
[00:52:52] conspiracy theory but it's what I've
[00:52:54] been hearing from people they think like
[00:52:55] some back deal was struck between Israel
[00:52:58] the United States turkey Russia
[00:53:01] uh to kind of balkanize the country I'm
[00:53:05] not saying I completely agree with that
[00:53:06] assessment but um that's a general sense
[00:53:10] I'm getting from people I've talked to
[00:53:11] on the ground but there always has been
[00:53:13] a very strong intelligence relationship
[00:53:16] between Israel and Turkey which is why
[00:53:19] you know you'll see erdogan publicly
[00:53:21] condemn Gaza being leveled while not
[00:53:24] actually doing anything to stop it
[00:53:26] because they work they're politically
[00:53:29] aligned in some Reon in some ways so
[00:53:32] that brings us to what turkeyy is doing
[00:53:33] in the north and what their aspirations
[00:53:35] are for the future of
[00:53:37] Syria that's
[00:53:40] Again difficult uh thing to predict
[00:53:42] entirely uh one thing I'll note is that
[00:53:46] uh turkey has not been placing
[00:53:48] investments in Damascus it's been
[00:53:50] placing its Investments it's been
[00:53:52] telling its investors invest in Aleppo
[00:53:55] but don't invest in Damascus
[00:53:57] um which is interesting to me and it's
[00:53:59] very telling as to what perhaps they're
[00:54:03] forecasting uh for the region uh and
[00:54:05] that they would rather have their
[00:54:06] influence there and we know that there
[00:54:08] is this sort of uh uh we can call it an
[00:54:12] Neo otoman Vision uh which would have
[00:54:15] them uh you know people believe that uh
[00:54:19] Aleppo is actually Turkish uh right yeah
[00:54:22] don't some people in the the Neo ottoman
[00:54:24] Vision like call it like their 85th or
[00:54:26] something
[00:54:28] along and and you have you have these
[00:54:31] people that exist on on the Turkish side
[00:54:34] whether they actually want to go and
[00:54:35] take Aleppo and Annex it uh that remains
[00:54:39] to be seen but they were controlling the
[00:54:42] fact to a portion of uh Northern uh
[00:54:45] Syria where there were people who were
[00:54:47] ethnically uh Turkish uh their
[00:54:50] background uh who were living there some
[00:54:53] of them not all of them uh beforehand so
[00:54:56] were involved in the country for a very
[00:54:58] long time and they sort of occupied two
[00:55:00] different strips of the country uh
[00:55:02] during the war before the fall of Bashar
[00:55:06] and they still have a heavy influence
[00:55:07] now um and they have different militia
[00:55:10] forces uh like the Syrian National Army
[00:55:12] as one of them and then different
[00:55:13] militias that they back um that uh are
[00:55:17] operating inside the country and they've
[00:55:19] been using these groups uh to fight uh
[00:55:21] the stf uh over the past few months uh
[00:55:26] and
[00:55:27] for them now uh they're backing this new
[00:55:30] Syrian government and they have
[00:55:31] influence over this new Syrian
[00:55:33] government uh and they have to sort of
[00:55:37] negotiate between this new Syrian
[00:55:39] government and other actors who are also
[00:55:42] trying to carve off their piece of the
[00:55:44] pie um and I think they have the
[00:55:48] strongest connection to this new Syrian
[00:55:50] government for sure they have the most
[00:55:53] influence over it but not total
[00:55:55] influence over it uh and there's many
[00:55:58] ways that the new Syrian government in
[00:56:01] Damascus can uh aggravate turkey also
[00:56:05] turkey has a problem because if turkey
[00:56:09] and the new Syrian government don't see
[00:56:11] odd to odds see eye to eye um and a red
[00:56:14] odds uh and things start to get heated
[00:56:17] we can see a situation where the two uh
[00:56:21] could be at some sort of state of War
[00:56:23] that's very uh very realistic that that
[00:56:26] could uh end up happening that there
[00:56:29] could be Warfare between the two sides
[00:56:31] or at least uh Turkish proxy groups we
[00:56:34] saw that for instance last year when
[00:56:37] Bashar alassad was about to sign an
[00:56:39] agreement with turkey and it looked like
[00:56:41] there was going to be normalization
[00:56:43] between Syria and the Turkish government
[00:56:47] suddenly uh these fighters from aam were
[00:56:51] opening fire at Turkish forces at the
[00:56:54] border um and were killing Turkish army
[00:56:57] soldiers and that that violence broke
[00:57:00] out very quickly because I think uh
[00:57:03] jalani sort of the writing on the wall
[00:57:05] um and he did not want this to happen
[00:57:07] that would essentially be a death
[00:57:09] sentence to the opposition and so his
[00:57:12] forces whether they were directly
[00:57:14] ordered or they were just given the
[00:57:16] green lights and told you can go and and
[00:57:18] attack the Turkish forces that happened
[00:57:21] we're looking at the the actors that are
[00:57:24] involved in this new Syrian government
[00:57:27] uh you know it will take a long time to
[00:57:29] properly integrate all these forces and
[00:57:31] some of them for instance you might have
[00:57:34] uh cin and wagers and a German
[00:57:39] salafist who wants to kill every single
[00:57:42] Shia uh in the Middle East uh all in
[00:57:47] this Administration with you know Syrian
[00:57:49] nationalists who want to see a
[00:57:51] pluralistic Syria and a free Syria so in
[00:57:55] order to these forces in order to purge
[00:57:58] the Hardline elements this would take an
[00:58:01] enormous amount of time and also it
[00:58:03] takes the will it takes the will to do
[00:58:05] it um and right now uh we're not seeing
[00:58:09] the signs that uh anything serious has
[00:58:11] been done the rhetoric is there you know
[00:58:14] they're talking about the orders to
[00:58:15] crack down but who are you cracking down
[00:58:17] on because the majority of your forces
[00:58:20] are behaving like this or they're at
[00:58:22] least they're allowing sectarian
[00:58:25] Bloodshed um and when turkey looks at
[00:58:28] this you know like they've got to be
[00:58:31] quite scared about the potential
[00:58:33] repercussions that this has on them uh
[00:58:35] they want more than anyone else to find
[00:58:37] some sort of solution uh to what's going
[00:58:40] on and they've got uh this power Dynamic
[00:58:43] especially with the Israelis where okay
[00:58:45] we manage the north you manage the South
[00:58:48] and let's stay out of each other's
[00:58:50] business because the Israelis the last
[00:58:52] thing they want is uh to get into a
[00:58:54] conflict with turkey and turkey
[00:58:56] absolutely does not want a conflict with
[00:58:59] the Israelis that much is extremely
[00:59:01] clear at this point that it does not
[00:59:03] want to conflict with the uh Israelis it
[00:59:06] could have picked a fight with the
[00:59:07] Israelis at any point and it hasn't done
[00:59:09] so um I'm not saying that there aren't
[00:59:12] people in the Turkish government that
[00:59:14] don't uh oppose Israel and they're Pro
[00:59:18] Palestinian and they want to fight for
[00:59:19] the Palestinians there are there are a
[00:59:21] lot of people in turkey that are stonly
[00:59:25] pro Palestinian care about the
[00:59:26] Palestinian cause um but in terms of
[00:59:29] what the administration is doing uh
[00:59:31] there's no signs that it wants to fight
[00:59:33] Israel so it wants to try and find a
[00:59:36] solution what that solution is going to
[00:59:38] be they don't know the Israelis don't
[00:59:40] yet know and nobody else
[00:59:43] knows yeah and in the
[00:59:46] meantime again the uh the situation
[00:59:49] serves the US interests of isolating
[00:59:53] Iran and alienating Iran in the region
[00:59:55] as well and of course there's a lot of
[00:59:57] problems a lot of syrians have a good
[00:59:58] reason for not liking Iranian
[01:00:00] interference a lot many syrians have
[01:00:03] good reasons for hating their uh ass
[01:00:06] Affiliated organizations like Hezbollah
[01:00:08] because Hezbollah went in um during the
[01:00:10] Civil War and they were very violent and
[01:00:13] did some stuff and it's a controversial
[01:00:16] topic but you know if we're just looking
[01:00:18] at this from the uh the perspective of
[01:00:20] American imperialism in the region uh
[01:00:22] this is this all of this is a win and
[01:00:25] I'm not trying to knock on the
[01:00:27] revolution or the new government that's
[01:00:29] just a fact that you know we have to
[01:00:31] come to terms with yeah I would jump on
[01:00:34] the point about Hezbollah because a lot
[01:00:35] of accusations are made about healah um
[01:00:38] something that covered uh the Syrian
[01:00:41] conflict and have uh contacts on on both
[01:00:44] sides um I never saw evidence of
[01:00:47] hasbalah uh killing women and children
[01:00:51] and and killing civilians I'm not saying
[01:00:54] it didn't happen and that uh those
[01:00:57] circumstances didn't come about uh but I
[01:00:59] have not seen any evidence of Hezbollah
[01:01:01] killing civilians um in in Syria I just
[01:01:04] haven't seen the evidence of it I I know
[01:01:07] that hasbalah were used um and they
[01:01:09] fought on the side of the Syrian
[01:01:12] government there were massacres
[01:01:13] committed by people in the Syrian Arab
[01:01:15] Army and the national uh uh Defense
[01:01:18] Forces there were people uh killed by
[01:01:21] all different militias but specifically
[01:01:24] Hezbollah I've never never seen any
[01:01:26] evidence that healah has gone and just
[01:01:28] gone on a rampage and killed civilians
[01:01:30] I've just not seen it um and and uh I
[01:01:35] put the challenge out there for somebody
[01:01:36] to produce any evidence that Hezbollah
[01:01:39] has gone in and killed uh done civilian
[01:01:41] massacr uh because I I just have never
[01:01:44] seen any evidence of that I understand
[01:01:46] people are angry um and I understand
[01:01:49] that people don't like hasala because
[01:01:51] they backed the Syrian government um and
[01:01:53] many of those militias were very very
[01:01:55] violent I'm not to deny that war crimes
[01:01:57] were committed that civilians were
[01:01:58] massacred uh and all of those things
[01:02:00] happened they absolutely did my question
[01:02:03] is when it comes to this hatred which is
[01:02:05] put on healah um I haven't seen any any
[01:02:09] evidence for what they're saying about
[01:02:11] healah I've seen accusations I've never
[01:02:14] seen evidence for it uh specifically
[01:02:17] when it comes to um not from Iraq is in
[01:02:24] Lebanese right I just haven't seen it
[01:02:27] personally and that's a point that I
[01:02:28] wanted to make yeah no that that's
[01:02:31] totally fine um I it also looking at
[01:02:34] footage from the early days of the
[01:02:35] Syrian War it's almost impossible to
[01:02:38] tell like what's unless you see like a
[01:02:40] Das a dish flag you know or like actual
[01:02:44] iconography it's kind of difficult to
[01:02:45] deter or like actual Syrian Arab Army uh
[01:02:49] camouflage fatigue patterns there's just
[01:02:51] so many foreign Fighters and so many
[01:02:53] different uniforms and iconography going
[01:02:55] on in the the conflict it was kind of
[01:02:56] hard to determine who was doing what but
[01:02:59] uh yeah no I'm not saying that I've seen
[01:03:01] evidence I'm just saying that a lot of
[01:03:03] syrians who I've talked to uh that's
[01:03:07] what some of their assertions some
[01:03:08] syrians love but um I think believe that
[01:03:13] um but even when it comes to the the
[01:03:15] dases patches for instance that's an
[01:03:18] ageold Islamic flag and some people will
[01:03:21] put that up and I think it's rather
[01:03:24] silly to do it because of what it's
[01:03:26] Affiliated that with now but there are
[01:03:27] people who actually will wear that patch
[01:03:29] and people who will have that flag up
[01:03:33] and they're not Das um so even that is
[01:03:37] hard to call you know some people they
[01:03:38] go oh well we see the patch and then
[01:03:40] that must mean that they're daes but
[01:03:42] that's not actually the case because it
[01:03:44] is an Islamic flag um and sometimes it's
[01:03:47] not used to represent dases and where it
[01:03:50] is used to do that and where it's not is
[01:03:52] very difficult to tell um so it's uh
[01:03:57] even that is difficult to tell but these
[01:03:59] people that are saying that healah has
[01:04:02] carried out these civilian
[01:04:03] massacres again specifically healah I
[01:04:07] haven't seen the evidence of it I'd be
[01:04:09] open to taking the evidence being passed
[01:04:12] on the evidence if someone can show it
[01:04:14] to me but I've not seen evidence that
[01:04:16] healah has committed civilian massacres
[01:04:19] that it's come in and purposely went
[01:04:20] door Todo and shot civilians in their
[01:04:22] homes and committed these sort of
[01:04:24] actions I I've just not seen the
[01:04:25] evidence to Pro uh to uh prove
[01:04:29] it right no uh and and I don't want to
[01:04:31] belabor this point too much um we talked
[01:04:35] about it for a minute now the assertions
[01:04:37] I've heard heard heard was that they
[01:04:41] weren't going door too they're just like
[01:04:42] rounding up men who may they may have
[01:04:45] suspected of being affiliated with the
[01:04:49] Islamic State and doing that but that's
[01:04:52] again video evidence no not like we have
[01:04:55] for what happened um these past few days
[01:04:58] in in Syria especially not and so I
[01:05:00] thought it was a great Point like in
[01:05:03] closing um you know when there's a lot
[01:05:06] of people
[01:05:07] who want to support this new government
[01:05:10] and they want a you know a liberated
[01:05:14] Sovereign Syria U through this HTS
[01:05:20] interim government as a vehicle to uh
[01:05:23] attain that change uh but
[01:05:26] the the fact that you can't even
[01:05:28] criticize what their militias are doing
[01:05:30] and jalan's response to it is a little
[01:05:33] unreasonable I think it's toly
[01:05:35] unreasonable and I'm one of those people
[01:05:37] that wanted to see the best for Syria
[01:05:40] I'm not attached to any Syrian
[01:05:41] government or any Authority inside of
[01:05:44] Syria personally as somebody that's
[01:05:46] analyzing it I'm trying to make sense of
[01:05:47] it but on a human level I want syrians
[01:05:51] to be secure and I don't necessarily
[01:05:53] care uh you know what's their government
[01:05:57] who it's run by as long as it's it
[01:05:59] provides security for them and that the
[01:06:01] country uh can be secure and it can be a
[01:06:05] real independent country um I think
[01:06:09] everyone deserves the right to
[01:06:11] sovereignty uh of course there's other
[01:06:13] issues as to how this government aligns
[01:06:16] um if it's going to be aligned with the
[01:06:18] corrupt Arab regimes which are pro
[01:06:20] United States and pro European Union uh
[01:06:23] then there presents a problem because
[01:06:25] what will this uh regime even if it had
[01:06:28] provides Better Lives for its people
[01:06:31] what will it then do regionally what
[01:06:33] will its role be um and then what
[01:06:37] Horrors uh will come out of such uh an
[01:06:41] Administration that goes along with us
[01:06:44] and European Union foreign policy and
[01:06:46] goes along with uh Israeli Ambitions uh
[01:06:50] for the region uh I believe that a a
[01:06:54] regime that is going to work
[01:06:56] with uh the west and be subservient to
[01:06:59] the West uh is going to be a regime that
[01:07:02] can't by definition have proper
[01:07:04] Independence they won't allow it the
[01:07:06] Lebanese uh Army is a great example of
[01:07:09] this the United States backs the
[01:07:11] Lebanese Army they provide uh material
[01:07:13] support they provide funding um but is
[01:07:16] the Lebanese Army really an army no it's
[01:07:18] a glorified security force uh the
[01:07:20] glorified police force it's not a real
[01:07:23] uh Army because it's not allowed to be a
[01:07:25] real army it can't protect its country
[01:07:28] there might be a few security operations
[01:07:30] that it can do but it's not allowed to
[01:07:32] protect it its country they won't fire a
[01:07:34] single bullet towards Israeli occupiers
[01:07:37] not because necessarily the Ranken file
[01:07:39] don't want to of course they want to
[01:07:41] protect their country but the United
[01:07:43] States will not allow that to happen and
[01:07:45] the Europeans won't allow that to happen
[01:07:47] the Saudis they can't possibly do
[01:07:49] anything against the Israelis the same
[01:07:52] with the United Arab Emirates now these
[01:07:54] are uh you know they collaborate with
[01:07:56] Western interests they have their own
[01:07:58] interests and their different countries
[01:08:00] um but if they're in that camp then they
[01:08:03] serve the interests uh of the Israelis
[01:08:06] and the Americans and the Europeans and
[01:08:08] if they serve those interests then by
[01:08:11] definition they are opposed to the
[01:08:12] Palestinian Liberation cause and they
[01:08:15] are opposed uh to uh sovereignty uh of
[01:08:20] the countries of the region they're
[01:08:21] opposed to freedom for those countries
[01:08:24] you can't free if you're under the fum
[01:08:28] of uh the US Empire it's not possible so
[01:08:32] and that's that has to be that like you
[01:08:35] said that has to be criticized um and
[01:08:38] there has to be open discourse about
[01:08:40] this there are some people they want to
[01:08:42] come in and they want to dictate to
[01:08:43] syrians this and that and the other and
[01:08:44] tell them how to behave and all the rest
[01:08:46] um and you know there's a lot of unfair
[01:08:49] people out there as well who for
[01:08:50] instance still are uh you know they they
[01:08:54] think that they want
[01:08:55] Al Assad to come back um there are
[01:08:58] people like that well that's never going
[01:09:00] to happen but yeah true those people
[01:09:03] exist right and so there are those
[01:09:05] people but now we have we're in a
[01:09:08] different environment um there's a new
[01:09:10] government there um and there shouldn't
[01:09:12] be these sort of fights and this
[01:09:15] protective sort of way of dealing with
[01:09:17] this issue when we're talking about
[01:09:21] criticizing sectarian massacres we're
[01:09:24] talking about criticizing policy of the
[01:09:27] current government not to hate on it
[01:09:29] just for the sake of hating on it but to
[01:09:31] criticize it because people who are
[01:09:34] criticizing are normally wanting the
[01:09:35] country to get better some they don't
[01:09:38] some they have their own uh uh goals of
[01:09:42] course but a lot of people who are
[01:09:44] criticizing now genuinely want their
[01:09:46] country to get better they're syrians
[01:09:48] inside of Syria uh their people on the
[01:09:51] outside and they want their country uh
[01:09:54] to run Norm
[01:09:55] they want a pluralistic Syria they want
[01:09:57] a free Syria for all of its people um
[01:10:01] and there needs to be open discourse
[01:10:03] about these things there cannot be this
[01:10:06] closed-minded uh hatred of anything that
[01:10:09] comes out criticizing the current
[01:10:11] Administration um because if it's going
[01:10:13] to be that way uh it's going to result
[01:10:16] in uh in in more uh fighting it's going
[01:10:19] to result in more conflict and I'll just
[01:10:22] put the point out there that if you're
[01:10:24] for Force propping up your Armed Forces
[01:10:27] like if your the size of your Armed
[01:10:29] Forces is in total 35,000 men uh it can
[01:10:33] be overthrown very quickly so and
[01:10:36] especially if you pit yourself against
[01:10:39] every minority community in Syria it's a
[01:10:41] large percentage of the population um
[01:10:44] it's not hard to them bring over a chunk
[01:10:46] of the Sunni population who are already
[01:10:49] living uh in dire economic situ dire
[01:10:52] economic situation not seeing it getting
[01:10:54] get any better
[01:10:56] um and are also angry at what they're
[01:10:58] seeing happening to their brothers and
[01:11:01] sisters uh their neighbors uh who are of
[01:11:05] different uh minority
[01:11:07] communities and if that happens then
[01:11:10] we're in a very very bloody situation if
[01:11:13] a fullscale civil war breaks out it's
[01:11:15] going to be very very bloody it's going
[01:11:18] to be very bad so the criticism needs to
[01:11:21] come now the debates need to be had now
[01:11:24] and not shutting them down by screaming
[01:11:27] assadist and how dare you criticize
[01:11:30] jalani as if jalani is somehow uh a
[01:11:34] prophet oh oh actually actually you
[01:11:37] can't you can't you can't if you call
[01:11:40] jalani Jelani you're an assadist you
[01:11:43] have to call him alar now alar he called
[01:11:45] himself sh years that's why it's stuck
[01:11:49] in my head but um yeah like you want to
[01:11:51] call him whatever you want to call him
[01:11:53] he calls himself
[01:11:55] no okay we can call him that we can call
[01:11:57] him whatever you want but this is this
[01:12:00] is exactly the problem he called himself
[01:12:03] Abu Muhammed Alani for the longest time
[01:12:06] so people like myself who've been
[01:12:08] following the conflict for a very long
[01:12:10] time that's his name that's when I see
[01:12:12] his photo his photo I see videos of him
[01:12:15] that's who I have associate that's the
[01:12:18] name in my head I associate with it um
[01:12:20] that's not because I'm exhibiting some
[01:12:22] sort of a bias and I'm trying to pick a
[01:12:25] side but again all the language here
[01:12:27] whether you use government or regime
[01:12:29] these these words for instance um and
[01:12:32] this is why I Tred to say government all
[01:12:33] the time and not regime because uh when
[01:12:36] it comes to Syria specifically because
[01:12:39] if you say these words then you're on
[01:12:41] one side uh is you're saying the regime
[01:12:45] for this and government for this I say
[01:12:47] government for all um because again I'm
[01:12:51] I'm not trying to pick a side here I'm
[01:12:53] trying to objectively analyze what's
[01:12:56] happening and uh I I think now is a fair
[01:12:59] time to do that uh at the beginning I
[01:13:02] tried to stay as silent as possible on
[01:13:04] on trying to provide uh predictions and
[01:13:08] and I was uh just watching it unfold I'm
[01:13:10] still watching it unfold um but when it
[01:13:13] comes to civilian massacres you have to
[01:13:16] uh address this with condemnation it's
[01:13:19] just human I'm not going to sit here and
[01:13:21] defend for political purposes uh mass
[01:13:24] killings of ethnic minorities in any
[01:13:26] country I don't care what the cause is
[01:13:29] it doesn't matter it could be uh
[01:13:31] Palestinian Liberation Fighters if
[01:13:33] they're Mass killing uh an ethnic
[01:13:36] minority group if they went in in the
[01:13:38] West Bank and started killing the
[01:13:39] Christians some group that's fighting on
[01:13:42] behalf of the Palestinian National
[01:13:44] Liberation movement they would be
[01:13:45] condemned immediately and they would be
[01:13:48] criticized and inside Palestine they
[01:13:50] would be massively criticized inside
[01:13:52] Palestinian society would not accept
[01:13:54] that so we should not accept that for
[01:13:56] Syria either it should it should be the
[01:13:58] same role across the board sectarian
[01:14:00] Bloodshed is condemned and this this
[01:14:03] weak uh you know uh excuse that is
[01:14:06] provided by some people go oh yeah but
[01:14:09] Assad did this yeah he did okay Assad
[01:14:11] did all these horrible things we're not
[01:14:13] talking about Assad now we're talking
[01:14:14] about the new government and we're also
[01:14:17] at a stage well oh he said he's going to
[01:14:19] investigate he needs to address the
[01:14:21] concerns of these minority groups that
[01:14:23] needs to happen in this country
[01:14:25] um and it's obvious that that needs to
[01:14:29] take place and and I think now um we're
[01:14:32] kind of at the end of our time but I I
[01:14:34] do think that don't like to make
[01:14:36] predictions obviously especially with a
[01:14:38] battle space like Syria but now that the
[01:14:41] violence is ramping down that's what it
[01:14:44] looks like at least this cycle of
[01:14:46] violence is ramping down if he doesn't
[01:14:49] address the concerns of the minorities
[01:14:51] of minorities within like a week two
[01:14:53] weeks after this I think they'll be
[01:14:55] really
[01:14:56] telling yeah this is uh the problem is
[01:15:00] the legitimacy I don't know if he's
[01:15:02] going to have legitimacy especially in
[01:15:03] the coastel and for the people again
[01:15:06] trying to uh justify this this is what
[01:15:08] you're doing is um you know the more uh
[01:15:12] that this can just be brushed off the
[01:15:15] worse it's going to be in terms of the
[01:15:16] way that it's received the there were
[01:15:19] thousands of alawi uh civilians who took
[01:15:22] shelter in a Russian military base and
[01:15:24] SL I'm glad I'm glad brought that yeah
[01:15:28] there was thousands that fled across uh
[01:15:30] the Border as well into Lebanon like
[01:15:33] these people fled their homes in fear
[01:15:36] not because oh they heard on social
[01:15:38] media that somebody shared a video yeah
[01:15:40] that might have factored into it but
[01:15:42] they knew what was happening to their
[01:15:43] people they saw it they heard from their
[01:15:46] contacts they heard from family members
[01:15:48] what was going on that's how I've been
[01:15:50] informed of a lot of what went on from
[01:15:52] people on the ground inside of Syria not
[01:15:55] from the videos that we've seen which
[01:15:57] are horrific and and many of them it's
[01:15:59] very obvious what they are they're
[01:16:01] calling for the deaths of alawi and
[01:16:03] they're calling the alawi pigs and
[01:16:07] burning down their homes we've seen a
[01:16:09] lot of that uh but this is the thing
[01:16:12] like with these people being forced out
[01:16:15] of their homes and forced to live in
[01:16:17] tents and being forced across the border
[01:16:20] and have these mass killings and these
[01:16:22] scares and not properly be consulted
[01:16:24] sold by a government who says no no no
[01:16:26] this is not what we're going to do we're
[01:16:28] going to hunt down all these people like
[01:16:29] your concerns are valid we're going to
[01:16:30] come in we're going to form a commission
[01:16:32] we're going to talk to you properly no
[01:16:33] none of that like it's these very very
[01:16:36] surface level attempts to address this
[01:16:38] issue which is extremely serious these
[01:16:41] people were killed with what can be said
[01:16:43] as genocidal intent by a lot of these
[01:16:46] people who were making videos and were
[01:16:48] chanting genocidal chance against the
[01:16:50] aloi this has to be addressed and if
[01:16:53] it's not
[01:16:55] what is going to be the future of Syria
[01:16:57] and can you even blame at that point the
[01:17:00] minorities for wanting to uh uh for
[01:17:03] wanting federalization could you even
[01:17:05] blame them because at that point it's a
[01:17:07] self-defense thing it's a it's about
[01:17:10] self-preservation and this is something
[01:17:11] actually which I feel has to be
[01:17:14] addressed uh before we end I know we've
[01:17:16] taken up a long uh quite a bit of time
[01:17:19] the at the start of uh the Syrian Civil
[01:17:23] War a lot of the minority communities
[01:17:26] actually cited including including
[01:17:28] Christians Drews alawi and this is true
[01:17:31] even the aloi um we siding with the
[01:17:37] opposition what happened is that the
[01:17:40] opposition was
[01:17:42] overrun by militant groups associated
[01:17:45] with Al and that were committing their
[01:17:47] own sectarian massacr and because this
[01:17:51] sort of sectarian Bloodshed occurred and
[01:17:53] because they were taking people's
[01:17:55] cousins ransoming them and and then
[01:17:57] sending their SED heads to them and they
[01:18:00] were committing these horrible
[01:18:01] atrocities many of the Christians the
[01:18:04] drew the aloi who either were neutral or
[01:18:08] were
[01:18:09] supporting uh the overthrow of the
[01:18:12] government they were supporting
[01:18:14] Revolution then changed and they
[01:18:16] supported and they threw their weight
[01:18:17] behind the government and the reason
[01:18:19] they did that again self-preservation
[01:18:21] and fear they they saw okay if these
[01:18:24] guys run the country then we're all dead
[01:18:28] and then again this is what you're
[01:18:29] reinforcing with many of these minority
[01:18:32] communities who fought for so long
[01:18:34] that's why the Syrian Arab Army fought
[01:18:36] for so long is because of all these
[01:18:39] atrocities that's why it kept together
[01:18:41] the reason why it fell apart at the end
[01:18:43] and it wouldn't fight a large component
[01:18:45] of it is there if they felt like there
[01:18:47] was nothing to fight for anymore and the
[01:18:50] opposition was way more reasonable than
[01:18:51] it was before it was a lot more Hardline
[01:18:54] um and and it provided them with amnesty
[01:18:56] and all these agreements and and and it
[01:18:59] it was a lot better than it was in the
[01:19:00] past um
[01:19:02] objectively um but now what you're doing
[01:19:04] is you're throwing these people into
[01:19:06] fear again and they're going okay we can
[01:19:07] never trust you so we either have to
[01:19:09] leave the country or we have to have uh
[01:19:11] you know we have to have a separate
[01:19:14] state or at least we're going to have
[01:19:17] our own sort of protectorate we're going
[01:19:19] to have our own borders we're going to
[01:19:21] police our own areas you're not going to
[01:19:23] have anything to do with this and and we
[01:19:24] need a strong military uh presence and
[01:19:27] force to protect us uh to make sure that
[01:19:29] you can't kill us again because if
[01:19:31] you're just going to send these uh nut
[01:19:34] jobs uh with rifles to come in door too
[01:19:37] and and kill people this can't be a
[01:19:39] state and they can't exist in such a
[01:19:41] state um and the Christians will follow
[01:19:44] some Christians were killed in these
[01:19:46] massacres as well um the Christians will
[01:19:49] think the exact same thing the different
[01:19:51] denominations of Christians that exist
[01:19:53] throughout Syria um many sunnis will
[01:19:56] think the exact same thing as well um
[01:19:58] there's an enormous amount of secular
[01:20:00] people especially in the uh the cities
[01:20:03] in Syria who will think the exact same
[01:20:06] thing so you're losing credibility by
[01:20:09] allowing this to pass and just oh no
[01:20:11] it's nothing no it's not nothing when
[01:20:14] you over a thousand civilians are killed
[01:20:16] that is not nothing that is a huge
[01:20:19] Massacre and it's something that has to
[01:20:21] be
[01:20:21] addressed yeah and I don't think I'm not
[01:20:24] sure that he will I I don't know how you
[01:20:26] handle that because from his perspective
[01:20:28] because what are you going to do condemn
[01:20:30] it and then alienate all these dangerous
[01:20:33] militias that could just go completely
[01:20:35] Rogue in the countryside
[01:20:38] so exactly so he's in an impossible
[01:20:41] position and he's put himself in that
[01:20:43] position and he gave this is why I it's
[01:20:46] suspicious why he gave the green light
[01:20:49] to do this because he he had to have
[01:20:51] known what was going to happen and I've
[01:20:54] heard uh the speculation is he wanted to
[01:20:58] allow these forces to do something like
[01:21:00] this because the situation in the
[01:21:02] country was not going well so allow the
[01:21:05] blood letting to sort of uh Stave off
[01:21:08] some of these internal just like a like
[01:21:11] a morale booster for a little bit yeah
[01:21:13] yeah I think that could be it from who
[01:21:16] I've spoken to who have the ability to
[01:21:20] judge jalan's character sort of from the
[01:21:23] inside um who I've spoken to in the past
[01:21:27] uh who give some sort of representation
[01:21:29] of his character it doesn't seem like he
[01:21:31] himself is Hardline uh in the AL
[01:21:34] mentality although he was you know very
[01:21:36] much in these organizations and leading
[01:21:39] you know in Syria um I think he's very
[01:21:43] flexible with his ideology and that's
[01:21:45] very clear I think if you follow the
[01:21:47] trajectory of his career career um he's
[01:21:49] not very fixed you know he he's more of
[01:21:52] uh you know he's looking to be a leader
[01:21:55] right and then he'll be flexible um
[01:21:59] that's what I'm getting as well from
[01:22:00] what we're seeing of him not just what
[01:22:03] I've heard about him as well and so uh
[01:22:07] the question here is was it just like a
[01:22:09] little let them you know do blood leing
[01:22:13] um you know make these more radical
[01:22:16] elements happy for a little bit um by
[01:22:20] myself some time while we uh try to
[01:22:23] entrench this government government so
[01:22:27] yeah well that's a horrifying thought so
[01:22:30] I but I guess time time will tell uh
[01:22:32] we'll see if he can keep these militias
[01:22:34] in line or if they'll need to do uh
[01:22:36] repeated bloodlettings every like three
[01:22:38] or four months uh in order to you know
[01:22:41] maintain their U Integrity with regards
[01:22:45] to their integration into the state
[01:22:47] military apparatus so uh without any
[01:22:50] condemnations and allaying the fears of
[01:22:52] minorities you're going to continue to
[01:22:53] have uh civil unrest and the
[01:22:56] unwillingness to criticize a government
[01:23:00] is always a political problem so thanks
[01:23:03] uh Robert in leesh so much for coming on
[01:23:06] and doing this uh breaking down this
[01:23:07] serious situation uh from a very
[01:23:10] reasonable and balanced points um yeah I
[01:23:13] I was going to contribute a little bit
[01:23:14] more but I was like you know what this
[01:23:16] is this is great um so really appreciate
[01:23:19] it and um you can basically find Robert
[01:23:22] here in his work and his writings and
[01:23:24] his inves ation here on mint Press News
[01:23:26] so thank you very
[01:23:29] much all right y'all and that is a wrap
[01:23:32] we will see you next week from what to
[01:23:36] break down
[01:23:38] whatever whatever happens next weekend
[01:23:41] so um good luck out there um and we'll
[01:23:45] be back shortly
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