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[00:00:00] I want to talk about the debate of [00:00:02] abortion. So, I know that it's something [00:00:05] very controversial. Some people are [00:00:07] pro-choice, some people are pro-life. [00:00:10] Um, before I start, I want to make sure [00:00:11] that I understand your opinion fully. [00:00:13] So, I don't take, you know, what I've [00:00:15] heard online. What is your stance on [00:00:16] abortion? [00:00:18] >> Life begins at conception. [00:00:19] >> Okay. So, where do you So, conception. [00:00:22] So, is that when sperm enters the egg? [00:00:24] Is that during [00:00:25] >> when new DNA is formed? [00:00:27] >> Okay. When new DNA is formed. So the egg [00:00:29] by itself you don't think is anything. [00:00:31] >> Sorry. [00:00:32] >> The egg of a woman by itself do you [00:00:34] think it's anything? [00:00:34] >> It's something but it's not a life. [00:00:36] Correct. [00:00:36] >> Okay. That's okay. So my question is [00:00:38] when you talk about abortion and why you [00:00:41] think you so why you support it? Why you [00:00:44] don't support it? Sorry. Why you don't [00:00:46] support it? What do you use as your [00:00:48] evidence? You use scientific evidence? [00:00:49] Do you talk about the Bible? Do you use [00:00:51] both? [00:00:52] >> Mainly self scientific and self-evident [00:00:54] reason. [00:00:55] >> Okay. So are you someone who's a [00:00:57] follower of the Bible? I am, but that's [00:00:59] not relevant to this discussion. But we [00:01:00] could talk about it if you'd like. [00:01:02] >> I find it relevant because when I'm [00:01:03] going to talk about abortion, there's [00:01:05] there's quotes in the Bible that I think [00:01:07] support pro-choice in my opinion [00:01:10] [cheering] [00:01:14] Bible. Exodus [00:01:18] Exodus 21 22- 25 when men strive [00:01:23] together and hit a pregnant woman so [00:01:25] that her child come out. So miscarriage, [00:01:27] but there is no harm to the woman, the [00:01:29] one who hit her shall surely be fined, [00:01:31] as the woman's husband shall impose on [00:01:33] him, and he shall pay as a judges [00:01:35] determined. But if there is harm to the [00:01:37] woman, you shall pay life for life, foot [00:01:40] for foot, burn for burn, wound for [00:01:42] wound, stripe for stripe. So I know that [00:01:44] that can be interpreted different ways. [00:01:46] The Bible is interpreted many ways, [00:01:47] different there's different types, [00:01:49] different um interpretations. But this [00:01:52] says if a person causes a miscarriage [00:01:54] through a woman that they will pay [00:01:58] for the abortion. So they they will pay [00:02:01] another one will punish them. [00:02:03] >> That is not what this law says. But let [00:02:05] me just ask are you a Christian? [00:02:06] >> Yes. [00:02:07] >> Okay. Then continue. So [00:02:10] >> so [00:02:11] >> do you believe in the inherent word of [00:02:12] God? [00:02:12] >> Yes. [00:02:13] >> Okay. Good. [00:02:14] >> Yes. Um, so it says that as the woman's [00:02:18] husband shall impose on him and he shall [00:02:19] pay as the judge is determined. So the [00:02:22] judge is determined and it's talking [00:02:24] about the husband. So therefore it's [00:02:25] talking about a person, not God himself, [00:02:27] not his judgment. So it's saying if [00:02:30] someone has an abortion, we have the [00:02:31] right to choose what to do to them, [00:02:32] right? [00:02:33] >> But didn't you say it was a miscarriage, [00:02:34] not an abortion? [00:02:35] >> It says when man strive together and hit [00:02:38] a pregnant woman, so that's causing her [00:02:40] to lose the baby. That's outside cause. [00:02:44] outside cause. Therefore, it could mean [00:02:45] abortion because some people find that [00:02:48] aggressive abortion is through violence [00:02:51] some such as hitting because not [00:02:52] everyone has access to medical. [00:02:54] >> Was it the intent for them to kill the [00:02:56] baby? [00:02:56] >> It's unclear. So, that I cannot tell [00:02:58] you. [00:03:01] >> It's unclarified. However, what I will [00:03:03] say is that it says that it's the judges [00:03:06] determined, the husband determines. So [00:03:10] God's not making the choice for us what [00:03:12] to do with a person who does that to [00:03:14] someone's child, does that to their own [00:03:16] child, but it does say that if the woman [00:03:19] is harmed her herself, not the child, [00:03:22] then they are liable by God, their life [00:03:24] for her life, their foot for her foot. [00:03:27] So what I'm saying is if somebody needs [00:03:29] an abortion for healthcare, let's say a [00:03:32] woman's baby is not going to make it. [00:03:34] And if the baby stays in her womb, she [00:03:36] will die. And they refuse her an [00:03:38] abortion. They refuse her that [00:03:40] healthcare and she dies. Should the [00:03:41] doctor be liable under God? [00:03:45] >> First of all, this those instances don't [00:03:47] happen. So let's just be clear. No. See, [00:03:49] you guys are so propagandized by this. [00:03:50] That only happens in a very rare case of [00:03:52] the breaking of the uterine wall. [00:03:53] >> So it does happen. But no, but where the [00:03:55] baby is already dead and that's what the [00:03:57] point is that the baby is already dead. [00:03:58] That's a removal of a carcass of a baby [00:04:01] still medically. [00:04:02] >> No, it's not. That's incorrect. No, it's [00:04:04] not. No, it's not. A removal of a [00:04:06] carcass of a baby is not an abortion. [00:04:08] Those are two technically different [00:04:10] things. It is not a DNA. It is not. A [00:04:12] DNA is something completely different. [00:04:14] But then if you want to talk about [00:04:16] scripture, do you think we are bound to [00:04:18] all 613 [00:04:20] Levitical laws? [00:04:22] >> Yes. If you're a follower of the Bible, [00:04:24] you cannot pick and choose what you [00:04:25] follow. [00:04:25] >> Oh, so so do you eat kosher? [00:04:27] >> You cannot pick kosher. [00:04:29] >> No. [00:04:30] >> Well, I thought you were bound to all [00:04:31] 613 laws. [00:04:32] >> I'm not perfect. I'm sinner. Everyone [00:04:35] here is a sinner. But if [00:04:36] >> are we bound to it? Do you think [00:04:37] Christians should eat kosher? [00:04:38] >> If you choose to follow the Bible, you [00:04:40] cannot pick and choose what you call. [00:04:42] >> Of course. But we do believe in a new [00:04:44] new covenant, an old covenant. So [00:04:45] there's three types of Old Testament [00:04:46] laws, right? There's ceremonial, there's [00:04:49] civil and moral. So ceremonial laws we [00:04:51] do not honor. Civil, we consider moral, [00:04:53] we absolutely do. [00:04:54] >> Why do humans decide what to follow in [00:04:56] God's word? [00:04:57] >> Because Christ's word, it's not us. It's [00:04:59] not humans. So Paul actually authored in [00:05:01] the book of Colossians, [00:05:02] >> that's a human, [00:05:04] >> right? Inspired by the Holy Spirit, [00:05:06] which wrote the Bible, the ordinances of [00:05:08] Moses are nailed to the cross. Secondly, [00:05:12] Christ our Lord repeated nine out of 10 [00:05:14] of the nine out of 10 of the ten [00:05:15] commandments. And he said, "All the laws [00:05:17] of the prophet hang upon the two [00:05:18] teachings of Leviticus 19 and [00:05:20] Deuteronomy 6." But now I equally have [00:05:23] to challenge you with scripture. In Luke [00:05:25] 1, [00:05:26] when Elizabeth came in contact with Mary [00:05:30] and both were babies, [00:05:33] >> what did it say that John the Baptist [00:05:34] did? [00:05:36] >> I cannot tell you that [00:05:37] >> he leapt. [00:05:38] >> Okay. [00:05:39] >> Do non-babies leap? [00:05:44] Um, I don't understand the question. I'm [00:05:46] going to be honest. [00:05:47] >> Is it if it isn't it a baby then worthy [00:05:49] of protection if they're leaping? [00:05:52] >> I suppose. [00:05:54] >> And it was the Greek word brephos which [00:05:56] literally means baby. Intentionally used [00:05:58] throughout. Hold on. In Jeremiah it [00:06:00] says, "I knew you before you were in the [00:06:01] womb." In Psalm, I think 139. It's one [00:06:04] of the most intricate verses about the [00:06:06] detail of our formation process as human [00:06:08] beings. And finally, because of science, [00:06:11] because of biology, we know that human [00:06:13] life begins at that spark of new DNA. [00:06:16] And God says do not murder and it's [00:06:18] incumbent on Christians to therefore [00:06:19] protect that life. [00:06:20] >> Okay. So my my biggest question is I'm [00:06:23] not saying that all abortion is valid. I [00:06:26] feel like that's up for everyone to [00:06:28] decide. But in the most even if it's [00:06:30] very small percentage in the very small [00:06:33] percentage that a baby is alive but it [00:06:35] has to be aborted for the sake of the [00:06:37] mother. What do you think [00:06:39] >> C-section? What is a C-section? [00:06:41] >> A C-section is when you cut a mother's [00:06:44] >> Why don't they do that instead of the [00:06:45] abortion? [00:06:45] >> Uh because it could be equally as [00:06:47] dangerous. [00:06:47] >> Wrong. It's much safer than an abortion [00:06:49] and quicker. [00:06:50] >> Do you have evidence? [00:06:51] >> I mean yes. It's it's it's self-evident. [00:06:53] >> Can you tell me? [00:06:54] >> I mean again I I there's plenty of [00:06:56] people evidence. He has plenty of people [00:06:58] that are in medicine can tell you, but [00:07:00] like to be very clear, think about it. [00:07:02] Every hospital is equipped to do [00:07:04] C-sections. You have to go to a specific [00:07:06] place for an abortion. And a C-section, [00:07:09] onethird out of everyone in this [00:07:10] audience was born by C-section. [00:07:12] C-sections save lives. They do not [00:07:14] terminate lives. And so when they say we [00:07:17] must abort the baby, thanks to modern [00:07:19] technology, that's actually a false [00:07:20] choice. You could take the baby out of [00:07:22] the environment and try to save its life [00:07:24] as a cescareian section. What if when [00:07:26] the C-section happens, the baby's not [00:07:27] able to survive on its own, no matter [00:07:29] what? [00:07:29] >> Okay. Well, then that's a separate [00:07:30] circumstance. It's like saying if the [00:07:32] baby has a heart attack after the [00:07:33] C-section, that's not a reason not to [00:07:35] terminate it. [00:07:37] >> What do you mean? [00:07:39] >> If you have to give everybody a chance [00:07:41] at life, you don't kill the baby in the [00:07:43] womb just because you think that it's [00:07:45] going to well, it could hurt the mother. [00:07:47] You take it out of that environment. [00:07:48] >> Okay? But what I'm saying is if they [00:07:51] take the baby out and they know it's not [00:07:53] going to survive regardless. [00:07:55] >> How do they know that post 22 weeks? You [00:07:56] don't know that. [00:07:58] >> There's miracles that happen every day [00:08:00] in the neonatal in the neo hold on in [00:08:02] the neonatal intensive care unit. [00:08:04] There's miracles that happen every day [00:08:05] in NICU. [00:08:06] >> And I agree. There's definitely they [00:08:08] don't know 100% for sure, but there's [00:08:10] definitely probability through science, [00:08:11] through biology that they know, hey, [00:08:13] this is more likely going to happen. [00:08:15] >> We don't do morals on probability. [00:08:19] I'm not saying it's morality. I'm saying [00:08:21] probability of a baby is going to [00:08:22] survive or not. [00:08:23] >> Doesn't matter. You don't terminate a [00:08:24] life based on a probability of survival. [00:08:27] >> Oh, you do? [00:08:30] >> Interesting. You guys do you guys murder [00:08:31] people based on probability of survival? [00:08:35] >> Interesting. So, somebody on a [00:08:36] ventilator should just be murdered. I [00:08:38] mean, it's such incredible morality. [00:08:40] >> Would you keep someone on a ventilator [00:08:41] for the entire of everything else? Then [00:08:44] >> it depends. There's two different [00:08:45] things. There's no more and not yet. [00:08:47] Once you reach the level of no more [00:08:49] human human interventions can improve [00:08:51] this person's life or bring them back to [00:08:53] a full life, that is a separate moral [00:08:55] decision than not yet. When a human [00:08:57] being is at not yet, which they are in [00:08:59] the womb, you must do everything you can [00:09:00] to make sure they get life. When a human [00:09:02] being is at no more, it's a completely [00:09:04] separate moral dimension and decision to [00:09:06] make. No more and not yet are are the [00:09:08] ways to look at pro-life decisions. That [00:09:09] make sense? [00:09:10] >> Yes, that makes sense. Well, thank you [00:09:11] for debating with me. [00:09:12] We don't agree to disagree.