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[00:00:15] Welcome to Ceasefire, where we look to
[00:00:17] bridge the divide in American politics.
[00:00:20] I'm Greta Bronner in for Dasha Burns.
[00:00:23] Joining me now on either side of the
[00:00:24] desk are two guests who have agreed to
[00:00:26] keep the conversation civil even when
[00:00:28] they disagree. North Dakota Republican
[00:00:31] Governor Kelly Armstrong and Delaware
[00:00:33] Democratic Governor Matt Meyer.
[00:00:35] Gentlemen, thank you both for being
[00:00:37] here. You're in town in Washington this
[00:00:40] week for the National Governor's
[00:00:42] Association winter meeting. How do both
[00:00:45] of you view the purpose of the National
[00:00:48] Governor's Association? Governor
[00:00:49] Armstrong. Uh, I think the one nice
[00:00:51] thing about having both bipartisan uh or
[00:00:53] both sides of the aisle here on
[00:00:55] governor's uh issues is it forces you to
[00:00:57] talk about I mean there's a lot of
[00:00:58] things that you do in politics that are
[00:01:00] partisan, but there's a lot of things
[00:01:01] you do as governor that you just want to
[00:01:04] hear good ideas from other places that I
[00:01:06] mean you're dealing with roads, you're
[00:01:07] dealing with schools, you're dealing
[00:01:08] with bridges, you're dealing with
[00:01:09] economic development. Those aren't
[00:01:11] partisan issues. So, you get to be
[00:01:12] around a bunch of other really smart
[00:01:14] executives and you get to learn from
[00:01:16] what they're doing and see if you can uh
[00:01:18] relay that into your home state. So, I
[00:01:20] always enjoy it.
[00:01:21] >> Governor,
[00:01:21] >> we're governors here. All 50 governors
[00:01:23] here to deliver for Democrats in our
[00:01:26] state, deliver for Republicans, deliver
[00:01:28] for independents. If we can lower taxes,
[00:01:30] provide services uh that are higher
[00:01:33] quality, if we can help the country to
[00:01:35] have a sane immigration policy, if we
[00:01:37] can work together for better schools,
[00:01:39] that's not partisan. That's American.
[00:01:41] and we're working together across the
[00:01:43] aisle here as governors. NGA, I think,
[00:01:46] has to be just about the most functional
[00:01:49] bipartisan organization in the country
[00:01:51] right now where people like uh Governor
[00:01:54] Armstrong and I actually were elected
[00:01:56] the same day. We went through NGA
[00:01:58] governor's school together and learned
[00:02:00] uh how to be governors quote unquote uh
[00:02:02] together. Our wives are close friends. I
[00:02:05] I don't agree with Governor Armstrong on
[00:02:06] everything. I imagine he agrees with me
[00:02:08] on almost everything, but not not quite.
[00:02:10] We'll find out.
[00:02:11] >> Well, we're friends and yeah, we, you
[00:02:13] know, we both have our our country and
[00:02:15] the residents of our respective state at
[00:02:17] heart and that's what NGA is about.
[00:02:18] >> How did your wives become close?
[00:02:20] >> Uh, I think the first NGA meeting and
[00:02:22] they got to know each other. Matt and I
[00:02:23] do have share one common denominator. We
[00:02:25] both married people significantly
[00:02:27] smarter and more successful than we are.
[00:02:29] So, that's helpful. But, I mean, no
[00:02:32] matter what you've done before in
[00:02:33] politics, like a national dis or a a
[00:02:36] disaster is not partisan. uh learning
[00:02:39] from other governors how they handle
[00:02:40] fires, floods, tornadoes. Like I've done
[00:02:43] a lot of things in public service. I've
[00:02:45] never been the guy who had to make that
[00:02:46] call until I got elected to governor. So
[00:02:48] there are realworld things that you can
[00:02:50] learn from your colleagues. You know,
[00:02:52] you had fires in Hawaii, you had floods
[00:02:54] in New Mexico. Uh those are both issues
[00:02:56] that could come up in either Delaware or
[00:02:58] North Dakota. So it's really great to be
[00:03:00] able to talk to people about those
[00:03:01] things.
[00:03:01] >> And how helpful is it when the spouses
[00:03:04] are friends? How does it help and impact
[00:03:07] your your agenda?
[00:03:08] >> Well, at at times I call the spouse is
[00:03:11] called the misery loves company club. It
[00:03:13] can be being a spouse of any elected
[00:03:15] official is is challenging. We both, as
[00:03:19] Governor Armstrong referenced, have not
[00:03:21] only working spouses, but spouses that
[00:03:23] work long hours. Governor Armstrong's
[00:03:25] wife is an extremely successful
[00:03:27] attorney. My wife runs the largest
[00:03:29] emergency department. She's an emergency
[00:03:31] room doctor. Um, and so there's
[00:03:33] certainly, as you can imagine, between
[00:03:35] being both of them being a a mother, uh,
[00:03:39] having serious crazy work schedule and
[00:03:42] responsibilities, and on top of it, uh,
[00:03:45] expectations as first spouses, I think
[00:03:47] they they find camaraderie.
[00:03:49] >> Where would people be surprised at how
[00:03:51] the governors come together and and work
[00:03:53] in a bipartisan way? What are they not
[00:03:55] seeing that's happening here in
[00:03:57] Washington at the National Governor's
[00:04:00] Association? I was just going to say,
[00:04:01] you know, I think people would be
[00:04:02] surprised even in Congress like how
[00:04:05] much, you know, real bipartisan
[00:04:06] conversations go on, but I think the big
[00:04:09] difference with governors is there is
[00:04:11] not nearly as much of that partisan
[00:04:14] rhetoric, right? Like I mean, you've got
[00:04:16] a one or two vote majority in the House,
[00:04:18] you've got three vote majority in the
[00:04:20] Senate. There's a lot of issues that
[00:04:22] come in DC, I mean I was here, that are
[00:04:24] just simply shirts and skins issues. And
[00:04:26] that's just not we don't have the same
[00:04:29] political incentive structure when
[00:04:31] you're governor. It's just easier to
[00:04:32] talk to people and ask them why that
[00:04:34] works there. Um if you can think it
[00:04:36] would extrapolate like in East Co. I
[00:04:39] mean Delaware and North Dakota are not
[00:04:40] super similar. I mean just the
[00:04:42] demographically they're not. But that
[00:04:44] doesn't mean there's policies that he's
[00:04:45] he's trying or new things he's trying
[00:04:47] that couldn't work in our schools or
[00:04:49] something like that.
[00:04:50] >> Yeah. You are a former member of
[00:04:51] Congress, uh Governor Armstrong. Do you
[00:04:54] feel heard by lawmakers, by Congress,
[00:04:56] and by the the White House here?
[00:04:58] >> Yeah, I I mean, I think that from my
[00:05:00] from my perspective, I think in even
[00:05:02] under the first administr Trump
[00:05:04] administration, I think one of the
[00:05:05] things that we have found as somebody
[00:05:07] who I mean, we don't always get the
[00:05:09] answer we want, but we get a response.
[00:05:12] And I can tell you as somebody who was
[00:05:14] maybe unique in Congress on like
[00:05:16] political justice and criminal justice
[00:05:18] reform stuff, it was hard for me to get
[00:05:20] a response from the Biden White House
[00:05:22] when I was here. Now, I I obviously
[00:05:24] didn't serve as governor when President
[00:05:26] Biden was uh president, but the one
[00:05:28] thing I will say about the uh the Trump
[00:05:30] administration is they respond to us
[00:05:32] when we reach out.
[00:05:33] >> Governor Meyer, is it the same for you?
[00:05:35] >> We we have not heard uh much response on
[00:05:38] numerous things. We have uh chicken
[00:05:40] production plants that are being
[00:05:42] devastated by changes to rules around
[00:05:44] legal immigrants, primarily Haitians in
[00:05:48] Delaware, who suddenly have to leave the
[00:05:50] country and you have labor challenges at
[00:05:52] places like Purdue Chicken and other
[00:05:54] leading uh poultry farms. Our
[00:05:57] universities are really struggling and
[00:05:58] we reach out to the White House. We
[00:06:00] don't get much responsiveness on a
[00:06:02] numerous other funding mechanisms. We've
[00:06:04] uh our our attorney general has sued the
[00:06:07] Trump administration to the tune of
[00:06:09] nearly a billion dollars. Uh winning
[00:06:13] time and time again because we're not
[00:06:15] getting the kind of responsiveness or
[00:06:16] bipartisansship that you'd expect out of
[00:06:18] a leader. Not getting the kind of
[00:06:19] bipartisanship that I think Governor
[00:06:21] Armstrong shows in his state and I'm
[00:06:23] showing you mine. We're going to get to
[00:06:24] immigration in a minute, but one of the
[00:06:26] main events during the National
[00:06:27] Governor's Association winter meeting is
[00:06:29] the traditionally bipartisan gathering
[00:06:32] at the White House. This year was a
[00:06:34] little tense with the president
[00:06:35] originally saying no Democrats were
[00:06:37] going to be invited, then relented, but
[00:06:39] said all but two will be invited. Left
[00:06:43] out there, Colorado Democratic Governor
[00:06:44] Jared Polus and Maryland Governor Wes
[00:06:47] Moore were the ones not invited. Here's
[00:06:50] Kentucky Democratic Governor Andy Basher
[00:06:52] on the controversy.
[00:06:54] >> The president has just turned it into
[00:06:56] drama, inviting and disinviting others.
[00:06:58] It no longer looks like it's going to be
[00:07:00] productive at all. At this point, I'm
[00:07:03] not going. If you're not going to invite
[00:07:04] all the Democratic governors, this chair
[00:07:07] of the DGA isn't going to be there.
[00:07:10] >> Governor Metmier, are you going?
[00:07:11] >> I'm not going. I I agree with Governor
[00:07:13] Basher. It's shameful. The whole point
[00:07:15] of the dinner is for us to put our
[00:07:18] partisan rhetoric aside. Let's talk
[00:07:20] about results for the country. Let's sit
[00:07:22] down the way Governor Armstrong and I
[00:07:23] do. Let's sit down the way Kirsten and
[00:07:25] his wife and Lauren, my wife do, and
[00:07:27] talk as Americans and work together.
[00:07:29] When you say, "I like you, but I don't
[00:07:32] like you." That's not acceptable.
[00:07:33] audition for the president who tweeted
[00:07:36] this week about how great Jesse Jackson
[00:07:39] was and honoring his memory. The day
[00:07:42] before that, he disinvites or refuses to
[00:07:45] invite the only black governor in the
[00:07:47] United States to his house for dinner
[00:07:49] for no apparent reason. It's truly
[00:07:51] disrespectful. I I would think that no
[00:07:53] governor should go, not Democrat, not
[00:07:55] Republican.
[00:07:56] >> Governor Armstrong, do should you
[00:07:57] decline the invitation?
[00:07:59] >> Absolutely not. When we get invited to
[00:08:01] the White House, we go. Uh, I was I I
[00:08:03] used to I'm I'm not a huge fan of the
[00:08:05] Christmas parties. Uh, I just would
[00:08:07] rather get home. And my wife, even under
[00:08:10] President Biden, when you're invited to
[00:08:11] the White House, you go to the White
[00:08:13] House. Uh, everybody has that. I
[00:08:15] actually think this has a little This is
[00:08:17] a little more like Congress. I think
[00:08:19] everybody's winning because they're all
[00:08:20] talking to different audiences. Uh, I
[00:08:22] think the Kentucky governor, the
[00:08:24] Maryland governor, and you might not
[00:08:25] like the reasons, but they are in a
[00:08:26] fight right now. Uh, there's a sewage
[00:08:28] line issue. They obviously have some
[00:08:30] redistricting issues going on in
[00:08:32] Maryland at home. I think I think this
[00:08:34] reminds me a little bit more of how the
[00:08:36] partisanship worked in Congress. I think
[00:08:38] the White House is doing what they're
[00:08:40] doing and I think the governors who are
[00:08:41] responding are talking to a different
[00:08:43] audience necessarily than President
[00:08:44] Trump is.
[00:08:45] >> Is it distracting though from your
[00:08:47] mission here as governors in Washington?
[00:08:50] >> I don't think so. I mean, I think it's I
[00:08:51] mean, we like to take down the
[00:08:53] temperature amongst each other, but it's
[00:08:54] still a partisan town. It's still
[00:08:56] Washington. It's still gonna That
[00:08:58] stuff's going to play. I mean, two of
[00:09:00] the three governors we're talking about
[00:09:02] are very much being talked about as next
[00:09:04] presidential candidates for for your
[00:09:06] party in uh two years. And I think if I
[00:09:09] was if I was going to run in a
[00:09:10] Democratic primary, this is a fight I'd
[00:09:12] want to pick.
[00:09:13] >> You both are firsttime governors.
[00:09:15] Another firsttime governor was just
[00:09:17] announced as the uh Democrat who will be
[00:09:20] giving the State of the Union response
[00:09:22] to President Trump next week. Abigail
[00:09:25] Spamberger, the Virginia governor. What
[00:09:28] do you make of the choice there? Is it a
[00:09:29] good one for your party?
[00:09:30] >> I think it's amazing. Governor
[00:09:32] Spanberger is off to an extraordinary
[00:09:35] start. Um, she's got a vision for
[00:09:37] Virginia. Being governor of Virginia
[00:09:39] actually is is really, really hard. You
[00:09:42] have one term. There's a one term limit.
[00:09:44] So, you got to sprint from day one. So,
[00:09:46] there's no kind of learning on the job.
[00:09:48] I think she ran an incredible campaign.
[00:09:50] She's an incredible visionary leader.
[00:09:52] And I'm excited to see what she's gonna
[00:09:54] what she's going to say to us Tuesday
[00:09:55] night. To be honest, I'm I'm probably a
[00:09:57] little more excited for that speech than
[00:09:59] any other speech that night.
[00:10:00] >> Would either one of you want to give the
[00:10:02] party response to the State of the
[00:10:04] Union?
[00:10:05] >> I without giving out too much idea, I
[00:10:07] would only do it as a pre-buttle. Uh I
[00:10:09] served with Governor Spanberger in
[00:10:11] Congress. I've find her to be incredibly
[00:10:13] talented. Uh that's a tough job that I
[00:10:15] mean it's the list of people who haven't
[00:10:18] done it well, even really talented
[00:10:20] people, is extraordinarily longer. I
[00:10:22] mean, you got all the pomp and
[00:10:23] circumstance of the State of the Union,
[00:10:25] and no matter how you frame it the other
[00:10:27] way, you can't compete with that. But I
[00:10:29] I mean, if she's a great pick
[00:10:31] >> and you have to write a rebuttal before
[00:10:33] you hear the speech, so which is pretty
[00:10:35] hard to do.
[00:10:35] >> Tough job.
[00:10:36] >> Yeah.
[00:10:36] >> You both just finished your your first
[00:10:38] years as governor. As we said, Governor
[00:10:40] Armstrong, you're former congressman.
[00:10:42] Governor Meyer, you were previously a
[00:10:43] county executive. What was it like to
[00:10:46] adjust from those roles to being
[00:10:48] governor? Well, listen. I was a 11 years
[00:10:51] ago, I was a school teacher. I was a
[00:10:52] middle school math teacher who ran an
[00:10:54] outsider campaign to run our state's
[00:10:56] largest county. And I learned pretty
[00:10:58] quickly that I ran our state's largest
[00:11:00] sewer system. If I kept sewage out of
[00:11:03] your basement and kept your sewer fees
[00:11:05] low, you would like me. You might like
[00:11:07] Donald Trump. You might like Bernie
[00:11:10] Sanders, but if I kept the sewage out of
[00:11:12] the basement, kept your sewers fee low,
[00:11:13] you liked me. And if sewage was in your
[00:11:16] basement, uh, didn't matter whether you
[00:11:18] like Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, you
[00:11:20] didn't like me. And a lot of that
[00:11:22] experience is very helpful coming to
[00:11:24] government. People want delivery. They
[00:11:26] want to see that they have quality
[00:11:27] police, quality schools. They want 21st
[00:11:30] century healthcare that's affordable and
[00:11:31] accessible to everyone. Parents want
[00:11:33] child care that they can actually
[00:11:35] afford. And they want to be able to turn
[00:11:36] it off turn on and off their lights
[00:11:38] without worrying about making ends meet.
[00:11:41] >> Yes, please. No sewage in in the
[00:11:42] basement. What's it been like for you?
[00:11:44] >> Uh I I can give an example. So we walk
[00:11:47] we get sworn in December 15th. Our
[00:11:49] legislature comes in January 6th. So uh
[00:11:52] it is very much designed to have the
[00:11:54] legislative branch to have uh some
[00:11:56] advantages over new governor, which is
[00:11:57] great. I'm a former legislator, but you
[00:12:00] know, you do a lot of walking and
[00:12:02] talking in Congress. I was on three
[00:12:04] committees and seven subcommittees. And
[00:12:06] so we're walking down my hallway and I
[00:12:08] look at my and my chief is talking to me
[00:12:10] about something and I go, "Okay, let's
[00:12:11] do that." By the time we get to the end
[00:12:13] of the hallway, I stopped and I said,
[00:12:14] "Wait a second. That was a $25 million
[00:12:16] decision. Maybe we should maybe we
[00:12:19] should at least get briefed on it
[00:12:20] first." So, we had to slow down because
[00:12:22] you can deploy decision-m. You know, we
[00:12:25] when I was out here, we were fighting
[00:12:26] about whether we can get a rule passed,
[00:12:28] right? Or whether we could whip enough
[00:12:29] votes to pass a bill. Whether the Senate
[00:12:31] was ever going to take it up or not was
[00:12:33] a whole separate question. So, there's a
[00:12:35] lot of It's humbling to have that
[00:12:37] responsibility, but also you get to
[00:12:39] deploy decision-m and that's really fun.
[00:12:41] One of the hottest debates out here in
[00:12:43] Washington and around the country is
[00:12:44] immigration. And according to
[00:12:47] Multistate, they did an analysis of the
[00:12:49] policy trends brought up by governors
[00:12:51] during the state of the state addresses.
[00:12:53] And they found this. Immigration was the
[00:12:55] most discussed topic in 2026 state of
[00:12:58] the state addresses with governors
[00:13:00] highlighting sharp partisan divides and
[00:13:02] previewing ongoing debates over
[00:13:04] enforcement and federal actions. How do
[00:13:07] each of you assess the recent
[00:13:10] immigration enforcement operations
[00:13:11] across the country? Governor Meyer,
[00:13:13] >> listen, as far as Delawareians are
[00:13:15] concerned, ICE has lost credibility.
[00:13:18] It's hard for ICE to operate anywhere in
[00:13:21] our state without it creating some
[00:13:23] crisis and in fact making Delawarians
[00:13:26] less safe simply by wearing that
[00:13:28] uniform. Now, because of things that
[00:13:30] have happened in Minnesota and other
[00:13:32] areas across the country, it's creating
[00:13:34] a lack of safety. officers with uniforms
[00:13:36] were sent into places where they did not
[00:13:39] respect due process or basic human
[00:13:41] rights. They did not seem to have
[00:13:43] training in antibbias and in 21st
[00:13:46] century policing, things that every
[00:13:47] police officer in Delaware gets and most
[00:13:50] police officers around the country get.
[00:13:51] So, it's very hard for ICE to have any
[00:13:53] credibility. Having said that, I think
[00:13:55] there's common ground. I think if
[00:13:56] Governor Armstrong and I sit down and
[00:13:58] talk about immigration, which we have
[00:14:00] not done, I think there's a lot of
[00:14:01] common ground about having a secure
[00:14:03] border, about having a sane and
[00:14:06] efficient immigration process. I think I
[00:14:09] heard you talk, Governor Armstrong,
[00:14:10] about making sure that immigration
[00:14:12] policies move quickly, that visas that
[00:14:15] that you know work for that the
[00:14:17] workforce needs take 18 months, 24
[00:14:19] months, 36 months. With today's
[00:14:21] technology, they should take days or
[00:14:23] even hours. I think there's a lot of
[00:14:24] common ground there.
[00:14:25] >> Yeah. USA Today wrote this week,
[00:14:28] "Immigration enforcement takes center
[00:14:30] stage at state level. While Republican
[00:14:32] le states are following the White
[00:14:34] House's lead on immigration enforcement,
[00:14:36] Democratic le ones are aiming to reign
[00:14:38] in the feds. Would you agree with that,
[00:14:41] >> Governor Armstrong?"
[00:14:42] >> Yeah, I mean I we've we've worked with
[00:14:44] them in North Dakota and we our local
[00:14:46] law enforcement cooperates and we don't
[00:14:48] have any of those issues. I you might
[00:14:50] not like the tactics, but federal
[00:14:53] immigration enforcement is a federal
[00:14:55] issue. Like even I mean I 10 of my first
[00:14:58] 20 cases as a public defender in federal
[00:15:00] court were illegal re-entry cases. So
[00:15:03] you it is there are a lot of things I
[00:15:05] think the feds overstep on in a lot of
[00:15:07] ways as governor. But one of the ways
[00:15:09] they don't is enforcement of
[00:15:10] immigration. I mean that is a federal
[00:15:13] issue. Now, I think and when you're
[00:15:15] talking about immigration policy, I was
[00:15:17] on the immigration subcommittee my first
[00:15:18] two years here. We haven't passed any
[00:15:20] immigration laws since 1986,
[00:15:23] but it's slower to get an H2A visa now
[00:15:26] than it was 10 years ago. It's slower to
[00:15:28] get an H-1B. You could those are things
[00:15:30] I think everybody could agree on. And
[00:15:32] you don't have to change a single thing
[00:15:33] of law and you don't have to change a
[00:15:35] single thing of policy because it hasn't
[00:15:36] changed yet, but it gets significantly
[00:15:38] slower.
[00:15:39] >> Well, explain for the two of you for
[00:15:41] your states how important those visas
[00:15:42] are. We're talking about legal
[00:15:44] immigration there.
[00:15:45] >> Farm labor, H2A, it's I mean even when I
[00:15:48] was in Congress, it was either veterans
[00:15:49] benefits or immigration cases that were
[00:15:52] our number one constituent services,
[00:15:53] right? We just need the work. I mean,
[00:15:55] rural hospitals for lab techs and
[00:15:57] nurses. And I think that's what's really
[00:16:00] really frustrating from our standpoint
[00:16:02] is we haven't changed the law at all,
[00:16:05] but it's gotten slower and more
[00:16:06] clumbersome. And that shouldn't happen
[00:16:08] with increase in technology.
[00:16:09] >> Yeah. When the the when the visas don't
[00:16:11] come through on time, that increases
[00:16:13] employers costs, which ultimately
[00:16:15] increases the cost to the customer. I
[00:16:18] know that Governor Armstrong and I are
[00:16:19] both working hard in our respective
[00:16:21] states to keep costs down, make sure
[00:16:23] life is affordable. And when employers
[00:16:25] cannot get the workforce that they need,
[00:16:27] workforce that they know is readily
[00:16:29] available, ready to work, when
[00:16:30] government stands in the way, it's worse
[00:16:32] for all of us. What are the two of you
[00:16:34] doing on the state level about companies
[00:16:36] that are hiring illegal immigrants? Are
[00:16:40] you approaching this issue from that
[00:16:42] angle at all? Is it happening in your
[00:16:44] state?
[00:16:44] >> Well, I think it happens in every state.
[00:16:46] I mean, I think that's part of it. I
[00:16:48] mean, I think that's part of the
[00:16:49] conversation, but at I mean, we we work
[00:16:51] with law enforcement. We we work through
[00:16:54] all of the different ways in which you
[00:16:56] can do that. But I our biggest issue for
[00:16:59] us is our small we have we have family
[00:17:02] farms in North Dakota. We don't have
[00:17:04] large corporate operations. We have a
[00:17:06] three-month growing season. So a twoe
[00:17:08] delay which by the way this transcends
[00:17:11] President Trump, President Biden,
[00:17:13] President Trump, President Obama. It's
[00:17:15] it's continually continuously gotten
[00:17:17] more bureaucratic. Well, the person
[00:17:20] doing H2A visa paperwork at one of my
[00:17:22] family farms is also cooking breakfast,
[00:17:24] dropping the kids off at school, doing
[00:17:26] all of those other things as well. So,
[00:17:28] it's also a small family operation
[00:17:30] versus big business where we run into
[00:17:32] disadvantage.
[00:17:33] >> And governor, we're in a a partial
[00:17:34] government shutdown for the Homeland
[00:17:36] Security Department here in Washington.
[00:17:37] Is it having an impact in in the states?
[00:17:40] >> We're not seeing much impact yet. Uh
[00:17:44] we're just eager in in Delaware, as is
[00:17:46] true, in much of the country. We're
[00:17:48] eager to see the partisansship and this
[00:17:49] is about homeland homeland security
[00:17:51] should not be a partisan issue. Now the
[00:17:55] there's certainly been overreach on
[00:17:56] immigration. You can see it across the
[00:17:59] country. People do not want untrained
[00:18:02] uniformed officers coming in to yank
[00:18:03] people out of cars to judge people based
[00:18:05] on the language they speak or the food
[00:18:07] they eat or the clothes they're wearing.
[00:18:09] And I think that the Democrats here in
[00:18:11] Washington, uh, senators in Congress
[00:18:13] people are rightly standing up saying
[00:18:15] that Homeland Security should not be
[00:18:17] properly funded till we address this.
[00:18:18] People are in fear across our state.
[00:18:20] >> You've seen the Democrats demand here
[00:18:22] demands here in Washington. 10 different
[00:18:24] demands. Do you think that they need to
[00:18:26] compromise though on those 10?
[00:18:28] >> I think that 10 is a compromise. It's a
[00:18:30] compromise on immigration. Listen, there
[00:18:32] needs to be comprehensive immigration
[00:18:34] reform. In 2024, as Governor Armstrong
[00:18:38] and Congressman Armstrong knows well,
[00:18:40] they were very close to a compromise to
[00:18:42] move that forward. And until there's a
[00:18:45] change to to the, you know, the 1986 law
[00:18:48] to address our 2026 needs, I think it's
[00:18:51] very hard for there to be any kind of
[00:18:53] sane homeland security policy.
[00:18:55] >> Governor Armstrong, where do you think
[00:18:56] the red line is on those 10 demands from
[00:18:59] Democrats? Well, I think the problem is,
[00:19:00] you know what? It's not affecting ICE.
[00:19:03] ICE was funded in the reconciliation
[00:19:05] bill last fall. I mean, and I we haven't
[00:19:07] seen it yet, but when TSA employees in
[00:19:09] the middle of March stop getting paid
[00:19:11] and people start having delayed flights,
[00:19:13] people are going to be pretty
[00:19:14] frustrated, but it's not having an
[00:19:16] effect on Homeland Security. I've never
[00:19:18] been a fan of negotiating for
[00:19:20] negotiating in DC on something that's
[00:19:22] actually not affected by what you're
[00:19:24] doing. We've had these fights, by the
[00:19:25] way, that have like on 702
[00:19:27] reauthorization, FISA reauthorization.
[00:19:30] They get really clumbersome really fast
[00:19:32] when you're negotiating for something
[00:19:34] that has isn't actually affected in the
[00:19:36] bill. And that's what's going on with
[00:19:37] the DHS shutdown.
[00:19:38] >> Well, Democrats, Go ahead.
[00:19:39] >> Wait a second, Governor. I'm not I'm not
[00:19:41] a DC guy as much as you're a DC guy. I
[00:19:43] don't necessarily understand all the
[00:19:45] details of the negotiation in Congress,
[00:19:46] but a few weeks ago, uh there was a a
[00:19:49] total government shutdown we were
[00:19:51] heading into. And I believe the
[00:19:52] compromise is let's let's set aside
[00:19:55] immigration. Let's discuss it in the
[00:19:57] context of the homeland security bill
[00:19:59] and resolve it in the context of the
[00:20:00] homeland security bill. So now if you
[00:20:01] come back and say well immigration is
[00:20:03] separate. It's constantly trying to
[00:20:04] separate out this thing. You got to
[00:20:06] understand that in many communities
[00:20:08] across our country there is deep-seated
[00:20:11] fear. This is by budget the 13 largest
[00:20:14] 13th largest police force in the world
[00:20:17] that's now going into American
[00:20:19] communities. There are no guard rails on
[00:20:22] it in terms of due process. ICE officers
[00:20:26] have shown certainly either within their
[00:20:28] training or outside their training a
[00:20:30] willingness to pull out their gun and
[00:20:31] and use lethal force against Americans
[00:20:34] who are simply protesting against the
[00:20:36] work that they're doing.
[00:20:37] >> My point is as a strategy, they're fully
[00:20:39] funded.
[00:20:40] >> I mean, they're fully funded right now.
[00:20:42] where you're going to see the pressure
[00:20:43] points are the Coast Guard, FEMA, things
[00:20:45] that are really important to my state,
[00:20:47] TSA, anybody who flies, anybody who's
[00:20:50] flying in and out. So, I just think as a
[00:20:52] tactic, it's a terrible tactic.
[00:20:54] >> Do you think the Republicans correctly
[00:20:56] strategically got through the shutdown
[00:20:57] and now it's funded?
[00:20:58] >> Well, the shutdown was we could talk
[00:21:00] about the shut the original 80-day
[00:21:02] shutdown on on healthcare that wasn't in
[00:21:06] actually a part of the appropriations
[00:21:07] bills at the time. And I think I I I get
[00:21:10] a little frustrated when everybody
[00:21:11] thinks they won and I think the North
[00:21:12] Dakota citizens lose over an 80-day
[00:21:14] shutdown. And I think that happens a lot
[00:21:16] out here. I'm just saying right now ICE
[00:21:19] is fully capable of of operating
[00:21:21] significantly longer than TSA, Coast
[00:21:23] Guard, or FEMA. And I think that's a
[00:21:25] tough negotiating position to put
[00:21:27] yourselves in. After the optics of
[00:21:29] Minnesota and the fatal shootings there,
[00:21:31] do you think Republicans need to
[00:21:33] compromise and meet Democrats on these
[00:21:36] 10 demands like no longer wearing masks
[00:21:39] for these um ICE agents?
[00:21:40] >> So, I'm in a unique space in this place
[00:21:42] because I've always been skeptical of
[00:21:44] federal law enforcement since 2004 when
[00:21:46] I started as a criminal defense
[00:21:48] attorney. I've had so many different
[00:21:49] weird conversations with my Republican
[00:21:51] colleagues, with my Democratic
[00:21:52] colleagues. I am always capable of
[00:21:55] saying there's more transparency and
[00:21:57] more uh civil liberties in uh in law
[00:22:01] enforcement. I think it's always a good
[00:22:02] idea under any circumstance. And I but
[00:22:05] also at the same time I think we have to
[00:22:07] be very careful about who actually has
[00:22:09] the enforcement capability there because
[00:22:12] our relationship in North Dakota with
[00:22:13] ICE is significantly different than
[00:22:14] Minneapolis.
[00:22:15] >> Let's turn our attention to
[00:22:17] affordability housing. Both of you have
[00:22:19] put an emphasis on this. What are you
[00:22:22] hearing from your citizens, your
[00:22:24] residents about the cost of living in
[00:22:26] your state?
[00:22:27] >> Yeah, I'm hearing the rent is too damn
[00:22:28] high. That there's uh there's
[00:22:33] at some base level in in Delaware and my
[00:22:37] family I was born in Michigan. I moved
[00:22:39] to Delaware as a baby. My family went to
[00:22:40] Delaware because my parents thought it
[00:22:42] was an affordable place to raise a
[00:22:44] family. It has a reputation in the
[00:22:45] Mid-Atlantic as an affordable place to
[00:22:47] go. are actually the only state uh
[00:22:50] between DC and New England states that's
[00:22:52] growing in population where millionaires
[00:22:54] are moving to Delaware. It's a place
[00:22:56] people like to be yet housing
[00:22:58] affordability is is disappearing like
[00:23:02] never before. The real problem is a
[00:23:04] shortage of housing and it's driven
[00:23:06] ultimately by overregulation by local
[00:23:09] governments and some by state
[00:23:10] governments. So that when someone
[00:23:12] decides to invest to renovate a house,
[00:23:14] to build a house, the regulatory
[00:23:16] requirements, the zoning hoops you have
[00:23:18] to jump through to get there in
[00:23:19] Delaware, it's about a third of the
[00:23:21] construction cost of the house are soft
[00:23:22] costs. You're not even putting a shovel
[00:23:24] in the ground and it's costing you a
[00:23:26] third to to just get to a shovel in the
[00:23:29] ground. That's not right. We have an
[00:23:30] initiative where we're working very hard
[00:23:32] to speed up all those timelines, make
[00:23:34] sure things are are done right and
[00:23:35] quickly. And I think it's an issue in
[00:23:37] which many governors and many local
[00:23:38] officials are aligned
[00:23:39] >> and bipartisan. Wouldn't you say,
[00:23:41] Governor Armstrong, to hear a Democrat
[00:23:42] talk about deregulation?
[00:23:44] >> I got invited to come talk to a Yes in
[00:23:46] My Backyard uh conference in Connecticut
[00:23:49] that I mean, everything he just said is
[00:23:53] so substantially similar to the
[00:23:54] stressors we're seeing in North Dakota.
[00:23:56] We have a property tax issue. We've
[00:23:57] worked on that at the state level. But
[00:23:59] being able to get permits, I mean, just
[00:24:02] removing blighted houses in small
[00:24:04] communities, building a house that costs
[00:24:06] $400,000 to build, but the comparables
[00:24:08] in a small town only only get it
[00:24:11] compared only get it appraised at 250
[00:24:13] grand. So, we have some creative ways in
[00:24:15] which we're starting to fix those
[00:24:16] things. But I think the bigger issue
[00:24:18] regardless of whether you're in a very
[00:24:20] urban area in the east coast, a very
[00:24:22] rural area in the central part of the
[00:24:24] country is how do we speed this up? How
[00:24:27] do we make the code? And it is often
[00:24:28] times sometimes it's as simple as local
[00:24:30] fire code. And you can talk to your
[00:24:32] communities about how you do some of
[00:24:34] these things.
[00:24:34] >> Another affordability issue is um
[00:24:36] healthcare and rural health care for for
[00:24:39] the two of you. What are the biggest
[00:24:41] needs in these communities? Governor
[00:24:44] Meyer,
[00:24:44] >> there's a there's a lack of personnel uh
[00:24:48] which which in a way, you know, is is a
[00:24:51] correlary to the immigration question,
[00:24:53] but but nurses, physicians, uh medical
[00:24:57] assistants, med techs, physicians
[00:25:00] assistants, as I referenced earlier, my
[00:25:02] wife is an emergency room physician. I
[00:25:04] hear about this every single day, the
[00:25:06] long waits in emergency room. There's
[00:25:08] some fear based on uh what happened in
[00:25:11] this town in House Resolution One last
[00:25:14] year with tens of thousands in Delaware
[00:25:16] and millions across the country of
[00:25:18] people coming off healthcare roles
[00:25:20] either having health insurance that they
[00:25:22] barely can afford or not having health
[00:25:25] insurance that as the uninsured
[00:25:26] population spikes less and less people
[00:25:28] are going to use efficient health care.
[00:25:30] They're going to be uh making those
[00:25:32] emergency room wait times longer. what
[00:25:34] we're trying to do in in our state.
[00:25:36] We're we're starting our first medical
[00:25:38] school in collaboration with the federal
[00:25:40] government through the rural health
[00:25:41] transformation grant. We're also doing a
[00:25:43] lot of work to take the most vulnerable
[00:25:45] populations and seeing how can we get
[00:25:47] them highquality primary care where they
[00:25:49] need it when they need it and also
[00:25:50] infusing our health care system with
[00:25:52] technology. I think it's it's
[00:25:54] embarrassing across our country. As
[00:25:55] someone who studied computer science in
[00:25:57] college, it's embarrassing the that
[00:25:59] there are these extraordinary health
[00:26:01] tech innovations across our country, but
[00:26:03] so few Americans actually have access to
[00:26:06] those latest, greatest innovations. And
[00:26:07] there's a lot we can do as governors,
[00:26:09] Democrat and Republican, to make sure
[00:26:11] that every family has access to the
[00:26:13] highest quality care.
[00:26:14] >> Governor Armstrong, Republicans in
[00:26:15] Washington, did they handle the issue of
[00:26:17] these expiring and enhanced tax
[00:26:19] subsidies for the Affordable Care Act in
[00:26:22] a responsible way? are you hearing from
[00:26:24] your residents?
[00:26:25] >> So, it was a subsidy on top of a
[00:26:26] subsidy, right? Like that I mean, so I
[00:26:29] think I think the messaging and the
[00:26:31] overall position on it probably could
[00:26:33] have been better. It was obviously in
[00:26:34] the middle of a shutdown. But I'll tell
[00:26:36] you the other side of this. If you're a
[00:26:38] Republican, it's really easy to beat up
[00:26:40] on the federal bureaucracy and say, "If
[00:26:42] you guys would just move faster and let
[00:26:44] us do what we want to do, we could do
[00:26:46] things." Well, that's what this real
[00:26:48] health transformation is. They
[00:26:50] essentially looked at us and said,
[00:26:51] "Prove it." They gave it to us in
[00:26:53] September. We we got final approval in
[00:26:55] December. We have to we have to have the
[00:26:57] money uh CMS uh and by the way we were
[00:27:01] working with them from our state level
[00:27:02] all through the shutdown. Like this was
[00:27:04] during the shutdown. We have to have the
[00:27:06] money out by September 1st and we have
[00:27:09] to have it actually appropriated by next
[00:27:10] year. Like that is a very very daunting
[00:27:14] task for a state like North Dakota. We
[00:27:16] got essentially $200 million and we have
[00:27:18] to deploy that money into our healthcare
[00:27:21] ecosystem in a responsible way, in a way
[00:27:24] that we're not going to backfill federal
[00:27:26] federal dollars and make it come on
[00:27:28] state rolls. But it, as somebody who
[00:27:31] spent a lot of time out here dealing
[00:27:32] with this, that's the fastest I've ever
[00:27:34] seen the federal government move at
[00:27:35] anything and we're really excited about
[00:27:38] it.
[00:27:38] >> All right. Well, more to come.
[00:27:39] Governors, thank you both. That's all we
[00:27:41] have time for. North Dakota Republican
[00:27:43] Governor Kelly Armstrong and Delaware
[00:27:45] Democratic Governor Matt Meyer. Thank
[00:27:47] you both for joining me.
[00:27:48] >> Thank you. Appreciate it.
[00:27:51] >> Let's turn now to this week's C-SPAN
[00:27:53] flashback where we dig into the video
[00:27:55] archives to bring you a moment from
[00:27:56] political history that still resonates
[00:27:59] today. Lawmakers on both sides of the
[00:28:01] aisle are remembering activist and
[00:28:03] political leader the Reverend Jesse
[00:28:05] Jackson following his passing this week.
[00:28:08] Jackson broke barriers throughout his
[00:28:09] career, becoming the first major
[00:28:11] African-American candidate for president
[00:28:13] under the Democratic Party, advocating
[00:28:16] for social justice and founding
[00:28:18] organizations like Operation Push and
[00:28:21] the Rainbow Coalition. President Donald
[00:28:23] Trump knew Jackson for decades. In 1998,
[00:28:26] Trump and Jackson were t taking part in
[00:28:29] a forum on inclusion and economic growth
[00:28:32] when the now president spoke about
[00:28:34] Jackson's business acumen. There are
[00:28:37] things that can be done and some are
[00:28:39] being done. I don't think to the same
[00:28:41] extent. If you look, you know, I have an
[00:28:43] honor of of having Jesse at 40 Wall
[00:28:45] Street. We call it the Trump building at
[00:28:47] 40. This was this is now a 72story
[00:28:49] building right on Wall Street, right
[00:28:51] opposite the New York Stock Exchange.
[00:28:53] And uh he's a very tough negotiator when
[00:28:55] it came to rent. I want to tell you that
[00:28:57] this man is definitely setting a new
[00:28:59] standard for paying low rent. But it's
[00:29:01] an honor. This is the toughest
[00:29:03] negotiator I've ever had. a mixed race.
[00:29:07] >> That's right. I said, "Come on, Jess.
[00:29:09] You got to make you got to give me
[00:29:10] something." He said, "Nothing." I said,
[00:29:11] "All right, what the hell?"
[00:29:14] >> So, he's tough.
[00:29:15] >> President Trump posted a tribute to
[00:29:17] Jackson on Truth Social this week,
[00:29:19] writing in part, "I knew him well, long
[00:29:22] before becoming president. He was a good
[00:29:24] man with lots of personality, grit, and
[00:29:26] street smarts. He was very gregarious,
[00:29:29] someone who truly loved people. Services
[00:29:32] to honor Jackson are set to take place
[00:29:34] over the next week. Reverend Jesse
[00:29:36] Jackson was 84 years old.
[00:29:41] Now to the portion of our show where we
[00:29:42] focus on strategy behind the policy. To
[00:29:45] do that, let's bring in two political
[00:29:47] pros from both sides of the aisle. Aaron
[00:29:49] Magcguire. She's a former communications
[00:29:51] adviser for Texas Republican Senator Ted
[00:29:54] Cruz and worked on the 2020 Trump Pence
[00:29:57] presidential campaign. and Chuck
[00:29:59] Roachcha, a veteran of several
[00:30:00] Democratic campaigns, including senior
[00:30:02] adviser to Bernie Sanders 2020
[00:30:05] presidential campaign. And as we do
[00:30:07] every week on this show, we want to
[00:30:08] remind you that you are both here as
[00:30:10] strategists, not surrogates. Let begin
[00:30:14] with Jesse Jackson memories of him.
[00:30:16] Chuck Roger, let me turn to you. What do
[00:30:19] you what do you think Jesse Jackson
[00:30:21] should be remembered for?
[00:30:22] >> He was larger than life. You know, I got
[00:30:24] to know Reverend Jackson because folks
[00:30:26] may not know this, but Bernie Sanders
[00:30:28] was an early delegate for him in ' 84
[00:30:30] and a big supporter and he supported
[00:30:31] both of Bernie's campaigns. And so, I
[00:30:33] got to travel some with the Reverend.
[00:30:34] And as a good old country boy that grew
[00:30:36] up in an East Texas Baptist church, the
[00:30:38] Reverend always would move me with the
[00:30:40] way that he would evangelize about lots
[00:30:42] of things. But there's a piece of what
[00:30:43] Reverend did that we don't talk about
[00:30:45] enough. And even Donald Trump has taken
[00:30:47] a a page out of his playbook, which is
[00:30:50] he understood the plight of the American
[00:30:52] farmer. and he would show up and there's
[00:30:54] these great pictures of him in the 80s
[00:30:55] on a tractor. This guy from Chicago,
[00:30:58] this black guy from Chicago, talking to
[00:31:00] poor farmers, poor white farmers about
[00:31:02] all of the things that they were going
[00:31:04] through in their lives and the
[00:31:05] disparities that were happening with the
[00:31:06] American farmer. And I hope that folks
[00:31:08] remember that when they're thinking
[00:31:09] about his legacy.
[00:31:10] >> Erin, what do you think she should be
[00:31:12] remembered for? And were you struck by
[00:31:13] what President Trump had to say about
[00:31:16] him back then in 1998?
[00:31:18] >> No, you know, President Trump rarely
[00:31:19] surprises me most times at this point.
[00:31:22] And it's clear that they had a really a
[00:31:23] really kind relationship between the two
[00:31:25] of them that really spanned decades, I
[00:31:27] think, a lot of the time. And when you
[00:31:28] look at the totality of Jesse Jackson's
[00:31:31] work and the totality of his career,
[00:31:33] what a legacy. What a legacy to have
[00:31:36] been close personal friends with Dr.
[00:31:37] Martin Luther King Jr. and to be a civil
[00:31:40] rights icon and then to become a
[00:31:41] political icon in the United States and
[00:31:43] to do so through faith-based work.
[00:31:46] Right? He was a reverend. He put the
[00:31:48] Bible and the Lord and the Lord's word
[00:31:50] at the center of his work. And while
[00:31:52] policy disagreements abound amongst
[00:31:54] Republicans and Democrats, a
[00:31:56] triedand-rue American, as as Reverend
[00:31:59] Jesse Jackson was, will be hard to find
[00:32:01] again uh in this country.
[00:32:03] >> And Gret, let me also throw in another
[00:32:04] little anecdote is that most people
[00:32:06] don't know this, but he was the
[00:32:07] president of his student body and he
[00:32:09] played quarterback uh in college. He was
[00:32:11] a great athlete and a great
[00:32:13] >> He got a college scholarship for
[00:32:14] football. That's right. I heard that.
[00:32:16] Well, let's turn to the political news
[00:32:17] of this week because we are still in a
[00:32:20] partial government shutdown for the
[00:32:21] Homeland Security Department. Democrats
[00:32:23] and Republicans are still negotiating
[00:32:25] over funding for the department. That
[00:32:27] would bring the partial government
[00:32:29] shutdown to an end. This week, House
[00:32:31] Minority Leader Hakee Jeff doubled down
[00:32:34] on Democrats demands that any deal must
[00:32:36] include significant ICE reforms. Take a
[00:32:39] listen.
[00:32:40] >> It is our view that immigration
[00:32:42] enforcement in this country should be
[00:32:43] fair. It should be just and it should be
[00:32:46] humane. That's not what's happening
[00:32:48] right now
[00:32:50] in the United States of America.
[00:32:53] And that's why ICE needs to be reformed
[00:32:56] in a dramatic, bold, meaningful,
[00:32:59] and transformational manner. And if that
[00:33:02] doesn't happen,
[00:33:05] the DHS funding bill will not move
[00:33:09] forward.
[00:33:11] >> Aaron Magcguire, who blinks first? I
[00:33:13] think ultimately it's going to have to
[00:33:15] be Republicans because Republicans are
[00:33:17] the one in leadership here. And yes,
[00:33:19] they will need Democrat votes, but they
[00:33:21] have to be able to come to the
[00:33:22] negotiating table. And I don't even
[00:33:23] necessarily believe it's going to be
[00:33:25] blink. It's going to be who's going to
[00:33:27] be the first to the conversation on this
[00:33:29] because as the Minnesota surge has come
[00:33:32] down and those optics have been removed
[00:33:35] from people's TV, the polling on ICE
[00:33:37] will move as well and you will see
[00:33:39] people be less reactionary and less
[00:33:41] saying we need to have big changes. We
[00:33:43] don't like what we're seeing because
[00:33:44] they're not seeing that anymore. So,
[00:33:46] Democrats are the ones who are right now
[00:33:48] having to grasp to try and keep this in
[00:33:50] the headlines because without the optics
[00:33:53] coming out of Minnesota. They're not
[00:33:54] getting the headlines they were two to
[00:33:56] three weeks ago. And so for them, what
[00:33:58] they want, yes, they want structural
[00:34:00] changes. They want structural reforms.
[00:34:01] They're being very clear on that. But if
[00:34:03] there is a deal to be struck with
[00:34:04] Schumer to get this back on board and it
[00:34:07] sidelines Hakee, he doesn't care. So, I
[00:34:09] think ultimately it is up to Republicans
[00:34:11] to get this back open. We are the
[00:34:12] leaders here, even if the Democrats are
[00:34:14] the ones throwing the temper tape. But
[00:34:15] it sounds like you think Democrats are
[00:34:17] going to have to compromise.
[00:34:18] >> They're going to have to. Both sides are
[00:34:20] and that's part of the deal of working
[00:34:21] in Washington. Nobody's going to get
[00:34:23] everything they want because there
[00:34:24] aren't 60 Republicans in the Senate and
[00:34:26] the majority in the House is sitting at
[00:34:28] one vote right now. Those are close
[00:34:30] margins and they need Democrat votes.
[00:34:33] So, there's going to have to be
[00:34:34] compromise no matter what. Do you agree?
[00:34:36] >> The politics of each House is very, very
[00:34:38] different. As we all know, the
[00:34:39] Republicans in the House are much
[00:34:40] different than the Republicans in the
[00:34:42] Senate. Narin's right that Democrats
[00:34:44] want this fight because of the optics
[00:34:45] and we've lost that now with what you've
[00:34:47] seen the draw back a little bit in
[00:34:48] Minnesota. But Democrats want to say
[00:34:50] that they stood up and fought for
[00:34:51] something because forever and me and
[00:34:52] Aaron debate this all the time.
[00:34:54] Democrats sometimes are seen as weak.
[00:34:56] Believe it or not, not Chuck Roachcha,
[00:34:57] but lots of Democrats are seen as weak.
[00:34:59] And so they want to show that they've
[00:35:00] gotten something and they'll need to get
[00:35:02] something and get this done so they can
[00:35:03] go back and say, "Look what we did." And
[00:35:04] beat their chest a little bit. That's
[00:35:05] what Democrats need to do more of.
[00:35:07] >> They don't have to hold their ground
[00:35:09] though on those 10 points that they put
[00:35:11] out.
[00:35:11] >> No. they get five of those points,
[00:35:13] they'll still be able to say if they can
[00:35:14] get anything they can say that they've
[00:35:15] won. And there's certain things like and
[00:35:17] even some of the Republicans are with
[00:35:19] like body cams and maybe not having to
[00:35:21] wear the mask. Like whatever those
[00:35:22] things are, they there has to be a
[00:35:23] cover. They're never going to get all
[00:35:24] tipped.
[00:35:25] >> And I got to tell you, the mask thing, I
[00:35:26] think, is the one that Republicans will
[00:35:27] likely hold the hardest line on. Just
[00:35:29] seeing the increase in threats, over
[00:35:31] 8,000% increase in threats of violence
[00:35:33] against ICE agents against law
[00:35:35] enforcement in totality. I think masks
[00:35:37] are going to be one that I do not see
[00:35:39] Republicans giving ground on. body cams.
[00:35:41] Absolutely. I think everybody at this
[00:35:42] point seems to be pretty on board with
[00:35:44] that. So, there are negotiations to win
[00:35:46] here on both sides, but I just think
[00:35:47] that I don't see the mask one being one
[00:35:49] Republicans will give on.
[00:35:50] >> We're months out from the midterms, but
[00:35:52] do you think this issue is still
[00:35:54] resonating by the time November comes
[00:35:56] around?
[00:35:56] >> I mean, you're looking at a million
[00:35:58] political uh days between now and the
[00:36:00] midterms and a million political
[00:36:01] different stories today alone, let alone
[00:36:04] when we're looking all the way to
[00:36:05] November or you're looking at August
[00:36:06] when you're taking that turn into the
[00:36:08] fall here. Right now it is higher
[00:36:10] because it's in people's faces. But
[00:36:12] people will always vote on the most
[00:36:13] important things to them. Economy, jobs,
[00:36:16] the cost of energy, the safety of their
[00:36:18] community. And so right now for
[00:36:20] Republicans, there's going to be a split
[00:36:22] between immigration and immigration
[00:36:24] enforcement on which is more important
[00:36:26] to the American people. Right now
[00:36:27] they're going to say immigration
[00:36:28] enforcement is more important to them.
[00:36:30] But ultimately, again, the timeline
[00:36:32] between then and now is a political
[00:36:34] forever.
[00:36:35] >> Yeah. So we're turning now to the State
[00:36:37] of the Union. president is delivering
[00:36:38] that address next week. Affordability
[00:36:42] likely to be at the center of whatever
[00:36:44] he talks about that night. Is that the
[00:36:47] thing do you think Chuck Roger that the
[00:36:49] president needs to address?
[00:36:51] >> Yeah, you can listen to his chief of
[00:36:52] staff. He'll tell you that every day
[00:36:53] that he wants him talking about that
[00:36:55] every day. Now the question will be and
[00:36:57] I would caution the president on this
[00:36:59] and it was the same thing that mistakes
[00:37:01] that Joe Biden and my party made is Joe
[00:37:03] Biden for many years told everybody how
[00:37:05] great their lives were, how great the
[00:37:06] stock market was doing and how all the
[00:37:08] things he was doing was making their
[00:37:09] lives better and they never felt the
[00:37:10] relief themselves personally. If Donald
[00:37:12] Trump does that and people aren't
[00:37:14] feeling better then he's going to fall
[00:37:15] into that same trap. What he wants to do
[00:37:16] and what I've advised lots of candidates
[00:37:18] to do is he's going to get up and say I
[00:37:19] made all these promises and I kept all
[00:37:21] these promises and he's going to go down
[00:37:22] a litany of things that he has done. The
[00:37:24] question will be is it believable when
[00:37:27] he spent most of his time in his first
[00:37:28] term fixing lots of things around the
[00:37:30] world and not here at home and I think
[00:37:32] that will be the big justapos of
[00:37:34] position of the state of the union
[00:37:36] >> and Magguire you're shaking your head.
[00:37:37] So how does he address that then at the
[00:37:39] state of the union?
[00:37:40] >> Well what he's going to do I think to
[00:37:41] Chuck's point is talk about what he has
[00:37:43] done but also what the vision forward is
[00:37:45] and that's the contrast between
[00:37:46] Republicans and Democrats. You hear
[00:37:48] about Democrats who are doing multiple
[00:37:50] counterprogramming events at the same
[00:37:52] time, which let me tell you, as someone
[00:37:53] who's tried to counterprogram it, having
[00:37:55] multiple tends to dampen the message. So
[00:37:57] for Democrats, like have more. Go ahead
[00:37:59] and like kill your own message on a
[00:38:01] night that you think you're going to
[00:38:02] make your strongest statement. The
[00:38:04] president here though, what he's going
[00:38:05] to do is talk about what's going
[00:38:07] forward, what they want to do next.
[00:38:08] That's something you haven't seen
[00:38:09] Democrats do really at any point when it
[00:38:11] comes to leadership across what we're
[00:38:13] looking at going into midterms. And on
[00:38:15] top of that, I worry about Democrats
[00:38:17] overplaying their political theater hand
[00:38:20] in the chamber. It is clear that someone
[00:38:22] will sh like let's open up a bingo board
[00:38:24] right now and you know, you mark off and
[00:38:26] take a shot for who's the first one to
[00:38:27] stand up. Does someone get dragged out
[00:38:29] by the sergeant-at-arms because they
[00:38:31] won't behave themselves? Which level of
[00:38:33] political theatrics will we get from the
[00:38:35] Democrats in the chamber? And I will
[00:38:37] remind my my Democrat friends here that
[00:38:39] too much political theater during the
[00:38:41] State of the Union will turn the
[00:38:42] American people off more than anything.
[00:38:44] Donald Trump can say from the roster.
[00:38:46] Does she have a point?
[00:38:47] >> Look, the leadership of the Democrats
[00:38:49] will tell folks that they do not want
[00:38:51] that kind of disruption. If you want to
[00:38:52] silently protest, you all want to wear
[00:38:53] the same colors. You want to have some
[00:38:55] fans that say something, whatever. But
[00:38:56] we know anybody who's done politics for
[00:38:58] more than 10 seconds, know that the
[00:39:00] American people want to get through
[00:39:01] this. It's not going to be anybody
[00:39:02] really watching it who hadn't already
[00:39:03] made up their mind anyway. So, folks are
[00:39:06] trying to in both parties have something
[00:39:08] that they can get clicks on, raise money
[00:39:10] on, and campaign around where at the end
[00:39:11] of the day, it's the State of the Union.
[00:39:13] And what do the viewers want? What do
[00:39:14] you think that the the the the voters,
[00:39:17] the viewers want?
[00:39:18] >> Look, there's a lot of Americans that
[00:39:19] are hurting right now. And it's not all
[00:39:20] the Republicans fault. It's not all
[00:39:22] Democrats fault. We ain't in charge of
[00:39:23] nothing in Washington DC, but we want to
[00:39:25] be. So, we should give a vision and let
[00:39:26] folks in the midterm make that decision.
[00:39:28] But right now, folks are really hurting
[00:39:30] around the cost of their utility bills
[00:39:32] or anything else that could be going on
[00:39:33] with their healthcare. Folks are living
[00:39:35] through something and they look to their
[00:39:36] government a lot of times and say, "What
[00:39:37] are you going to do to help us?" That's
[00:39:38] what me and her do every day in our
[00:39:40] regular lives and say we have a vision
[00:39:42] that can help you. She'll counter that
[00:39:43] and say that she has one. It's who do
[00:39:45] the American people believe and can he
[00:39:48] deliver that? And we've seen presidents
[00:39:50] at State of the Unions throughout
[00:39:51] history. Bill Clinton would do that
[00:39:53] finger like that and look at you and my
[00:39:54] mama would think he was talking directly
[00:39:56] to her through the camera. But then you
[00:39:58] would have somebody like Bush or
[00:40:00] somebody like Trump the first time and
[00:40:01] maybe it wouldn't land. Or pick your
[00:40:03] Democrat. There have been presidents
[00:40:04] that could deliver that message and some
[00:40:06] that struggled with that. Joe Biden.
[00:40:08] >> He did.
[00:40:10] >> So, when you say in your everyday lives,
[00:40:12] what what do you mean for people who
[00:40:13] don't know?
[00:40:14] >> Yeah. So, Chuck and I are both Republic
[00:40:16] or Republican. We're both political
[00:40:17] consultants. I'm the Republican. He's
[00:40:19] the Democrat. But, you know, you can
[00:40:20] come on over the waters fine on this
[00:40:22] side of the pool. And every day we are
[00:40:24] running and talking to candidates and
[00:40:25] campaigns and and public affairs and and
[00:40:28] messaging out to the American people
[00:40:30] about the midterms. So, when we're
[00:40:32] talking to candidates, it is about
[00:40:33] affordability. And how are you going to
[00:40:35] acknowledge the reality that people are
[00:40:37] going through? Because Chuck's exactly
[00:40:38] right here. That was a huge misstep for
[00:40:40] Biden and for Democrats in the last
[00:40:42] cycle was they refuse to acknowledge the
[00:40:44] obvious to the American people. And the
[00:40:46] American people can smell a liar and BS
[00:40:48] a mile away. They know. They're like,
[00:40:50] "Oh, you're telling me things are
[00:40:51] better? Tell that to my gas tank that
[00:40:53] just took 50 bucks for regular fuel."
[00:40:54] Right? They know it because they live it
[00:40:56] every day. So, our job is to message and
[00:40:58] get our candidates in a spot that I
[00:41:00] wouldn't have a statewide candidate
[00:41:02] message on the state of the union right
[00:41:04] now. I would have them message on their
[00:41:05] state of the state, but if I have a
[00:41:07] federal candidate, then I am going to
[00:41:08] have them message on it. And we're going
[00:41:10] to be talking about the highlights of
[00:41:11] the Republican party, the tax cuts.
[00:41:13] They're going to talk about the one big
[00:41:14] beautiful bill. They're going to talk
[00:41:15] about people keeping more in their
[00:41:17] paychecks and in their social security
[00:41:18] checks and in their income. You will see
[00:41:21] all of that. And so being able to choose
[00:41:23] who messages which portion of what is
[00:41:25] kind of part of the fun we get to have.
[00:41:26] >> There's the far right and there's the
[00:41:27] far left of either one of the parties
[00:41:29] that will take pieces of that to try to
[00:41:30] raise money and get themselves clicks
[00:41:32] and get into the algorithms when regular
[00:41:34] folks don't care about that. But there
[00:41:36] are parts of our democracy that is the
[00:41:39] underbelly of our democracy that does
[00:41:40] that piece.
[00:41:41] >> Politico's West Wing Playbook reported
[00:41:43] on Wednesday, Trump's cabinet huddles on
[00:41:46] midterms messaging. Most of President
[00:41:49] Donald Trump's cabinet is currently
[00:41:51] meeting at the Capitol Hill Club with
[00:41:52] Chief of Staff Susie Wilds, Deputy Chief
[00:41:54] of Staff James Blair, and other top
[00:41:56] Trump political adviserss fa for a
[00:41:59] closed dooror strategy session focused
[00:42:01] on how to sell Trump's agenda and
[00:42:03] sharpen the GOP's midterm message. Erin,
[00:42:06] what do you make of that kind of
[00:42:07] strategy? Is that typical that the
[00:42:09] cabinet is getting together, the chief
[00:42:10] of staff?
[00:42:11] >> Oh, absolutely. I mean, when it comes to
[00:42:12] the midterms, it will be all hands- on
[00:42:14] deck. And if you look at President
[00:42:15] Trump's cabinet, it's one that has been
[00:42:17] incred a a great level of surrogacy for
[00:42:19] him throughout his presidency and before
[00:42:22] his presidency. So utilizing them where
[00:42:24] and when you can is going to be part of
[00:42:26] the midterm strategy, I'm sure, because
[00:42:28] the president cannot go everywhere and
[00:42:29] should not go everywhere when it comes
[00:42:31] to campaigning and helping races down
[00:42:33] ballot. Um and so for them, yes, getting
[00:42:35] ahead on this, but also not only are
[00:42:37] they getting ahead on this, they're
[00:42:38] telling people they're getting ahead on
[00:42:39] this. They made sure that this got into
[00:42:41] the press so that everybody knows, guys,
[00:42:43] we're not waiting for the midterms to
[00:42:44] come to us. We're trying to be proactive
[00:42:46] to make sure that because they have
[00:42:48] what, like somewhere between 300 and
[00:42:51] $500 million sitting in the president's
[00:42:52] pres uh you know uh political accounts
[00:42:55] right now on money to spend on the
[00:42:56] midterms. Part of that strategy is how
[00:42:58] they're going to be spending that money.
[00:42:59] >> So, as a consultant for Republicans,
[00:43:01] what's your ask to the White House? Who
[00:43:03] do you want to show up in the races that
[00:43:05] you're consulting on?
[00:43:06] >> It depends on the race. It depends on
[00:43:08] the candidate and depends on the moment
[00:43:09] for the message. Right? That's the big
[00:43:11] thing is that each race is so uniquely
[00:43:13] identifiable to itself that to make a
[00:43:15] grand statement about, oh, I want this
[00:43:17] person. Listen, if I was looking at the
[00:43:19] candidate, a candidate, especially if
[00:43:21] I'm looking at more of a you've got to
[00:43:22] make a Republican base play, you've got
[00:43:24] to be making a play to the right. You
[00:43:25] you might want somebody like an RFK Jr.
[00:43:27] to come out for you. Somebody who can
[00:43:29] draw a crowd for you and help amp up
[00:43:31] your base. I mean, you might want
[00:43:32] somebody like, you know, a Doug Bergam
[00:43:34] who's also been on the trail who knows
[00:43:36] what this looks like to be able to come
[00:43:37] out. Pete Hegsth, if you have a military
[00:43:40] installation or or anything military,
[00:43:43] veterans wise, I mean, those are all
[00:43:44] good. Doug Collins, you know, there are
[00:43:45] a lot of really great members out there
[00:43:46] that could help message.
[00:43:48] >> I have a different view, shockingly, and
[00:43:50] that is that that meeting was about
[00:43:51] crisis management because this White
[00:43:54] House and the Republican party right now
[00:43:56] is fighting a headwind. No matter not
[00:43:58] this particular one because of Donald
[00:43:59] Trump but any Republican or Democrat in
[00:44:02] a historical part of the opposition
[00:44:04] party always picks up seat you've talked
[00:44:06] about this in the next offyear election
[00:44:08] and we're supposed to do that only three
[00:44:09] times in history has the opposition
[00:44:11] party no matter who they are have not
[00:44:12] picked up seats. So you add that to the
[00:44:14] crisis but there's more to it. There's
[00:44:16] been a whole bunch of elections that's
[00:44:18] happened since he's been nominated and
[00:44:19] been sworn in as our president. It's
[00:44:21] been over a year and there's been
[00:44:23] hundreds of elections and in those
[00:44:25] elections, Democrats have overperformed
[00:44:27] in many of them. And my political
[00:44:28] consultant friends can say it's a
[00:44:29] special election. It's no turn. I get
[00:44:31] that. But in 26 of those elections,
[00:44:34] Democrats have flipped Republican seats
[00:44:35] and Republicans have yet to flip a
[00:44:38] single seat. So again, it don't mean
[00:44:39] everything, but there is definitely
[00:44:41] trends that makes that be a crisis
[00:44:42] communication. And to Erin's point where
[00:44:44] she's exactly right about that would
[00:44:46] give them hope if I was them is that
[00:44:48] they have a super PAC that the president
[00:44:49] controls that has $300 million in it
[00:44:52] that we have never had before and seeing
[00:44:54] an opposition to a midterm.
[00:44:55] >> Let me pick up on that point point
[00:44:57] because Axios reported GOP angst over
[00:45:00] voter turnout builds as losses pile up.
[00:45:04] Republicans are getting crushed in
[00:45:06] scores of state and local races, raising
[00:45:08] deep concerns about a deflated base,
[00:45:10] refusing to show up to vote, even in the
[00:45:12] most proTrump areas. The numbers are
[00:45:15] startling. In race after race, Democrats
[00:45:17] are outpacing their 2024 performance by
[00:45:20] double digits. A clear sign of a yawning
[00:45:23] enthusiasm gap. Aaron, are you seeing
[00:45:25] these numbers?
[00:45:26] >> Yeah, and they're real. The numbers are
[00:45:28] real. And it speaks to a couple of
[00:45:30] things. One, it speaks to when Donald
[00:45:32] Trump's not on the ballot, what do you
[00:45:33] do to get people out who are those low
[00:45:35] propensity Trump only voters? This is
[00:45:37] one of the biggest questions that's
[00:45:38] going to go into this midterm cycle
[00:45:40] because while the Republican party and
[00:45:42] the second part of this is that the
[00:45:44] voter propensity and style has flipped
[00:45:46] between Democrats and Republicans since
[00:45:47] the Obama era and you've seen that
[00:45:49] realignment within the parties. The
[00:45:50] Republicans have become a bigger tent
[00:45:52] party with low propensity voters. We've
[00:45:54] got more opportunity to bring more
[00:45:55] voters in, but they don't have a normal
[00:45:57] pattern of voting behavior. So, you have
[00:45:59] to try to convince someone to do
[00:46:00] something they haven't normally done.
[00:46:02] Democrats are now the tried andrue, come
[00:46:04] hell or high water, snowstorm or
[00:46:07] avalanche, they will show up to vote no
[00:46:09] matter what. And it's not necessarily as
[00:46:11] as a depression of a Republican vote as
[00:46:14] it is trying to convince a voter to come
[00:46:16] out again who doesn't normally behave in
[00:46:18] that fashion. One of the statistics that
[00:46:20] I was looking at because I dig into the
[00:46:21] numbers every day and I'm doing a lot of
[00:46:22] work in my home state of Texas is I was
[00:46:25] looking at Tarant County where there had
[00:46:26] just been this special election. But
[00:46:27] Tarant County is the largest city in
[00:46:28] America that's totally controlled by
[00:46:30] Republicans. It's right next to Dallas.
[00:46:32] It's cow town. I spent a lot of time at
[00:46:33] belly bobs there dancing. But that's a
[00:46:35] side note story for another day. But in
[00:46:37] this Tarant County, it's a Republican
[00:46:39] seat, but there's still 40% Democrats
[00:46:41] there. But they always get outvoted
[00:46:42] because we don't show up historically at
[00:46:44] the same rates. I looked at early vote
[00:46:46] on day one and 8,400
[00:46:49] Democrats voted early in Tarant County
[00:46:51] and I said, "Well, how does this compare
[00:46:52] to four years ago?" You always go four
[00:46:54] years back and look at an off year.
[00:46:55] Don't do presidential primaries. So, I
[00:46:56] looked four years ago and it was double.
[00:46:58] But then I looked at the Republican
[00:47:00] turnout on day one and it was 6,000. But
[00:47:02] that was the first time that more
[00:47:04] Democrats had voted than Republicans.
[00:47:06] But let me give my Republican friends
[00:47:07] some credit as well. The 6,000 number
[00:47:09] was 2,000 more than had voted four years
[00:47:11] ago as well. You see energy on both
[00:47:13] sides, historic levels of turnout from
[00:47:16] both parties. It's just more for
[00:47:17] Democrats in that particular county on
[00:47:19] that particular day. But that's a
[00:47:21] pattern that's playing out across the
[00:47:22] country.
[00:47:22] >> All right, we'll stick with Texas. Chuck
[00:47:24] Roachcha, what do you think about James
[00:47:25] Terrio and his chances in that primary
[00:47:28] race and possibly general election,
[00:47:30] Texas Senate race?
[00:47:31] >> Look, in full disclosure, I work for
[00:47:33] James Tarico. I've worked for him for
[00:47:34] months. He's a good friend of mine. And
[00:47:36] I think it's just a different of
[00:47:37] contrast of styles, right? And I'm not
[00:47:39] going to bash other Democrats here on
[00:47:40] this program, but I'll say if you watch
[00:47:42] James and as an old country boy that
[00:47:43] grew up in a Baptist church, when you
[00:47:45] see a guy get on stage and say, "Look,
[00:47:47] we should love our neighbors. Aaron's a
[00:47:48] Republican." Don't mean I hate Aaron
[00:47:49] because she's team red. I try to look
[00:47:51] for something me and Aaron have in
[00:47:53] common with each other that we can talk
[00:47:54] about. A lot of times it's football. But
[00:47:56] I look for that. I think that's what
[00:47:57] James Tarico is doing with people out
[00:48:00] there right now. And I think it says
[00:48:02] something as well when you have lots of
[00:48:03] Republicans hoping for Jasmine Crockett
[00:48:05] to win just like I'm hoping that Ken
[00:48:06] Paxton wins the Republican primary.
[00:48:08] >> Do Democrats have a chance in Texas?
[00:48:10] >> I think anything could happen in any
[00:48:12] given year. And look, there's been a lot
[00:48:13] of money left lost in Texas. Be quiet to
[00:48:16] light money on fire for that big fever
[00:48:19] dream in Texas.
[00:48:21] I worked for the last Democrat in Texas
[00:48:22] who was Anne Richards. Lots have changed
[00:48:24] since then. But we've also seen an
[00:48:26] election cycle this year where I just
[00:48:27] explained to everybody here that we have
[00:48:29] flipped 26 seats. It doesn't mean that
[00:48:31] Texas is a guarantee, but don't sleep on
[00:48:33] Texas.
[00:48:33] >> I think that there is an opportunity
[00:48:35] down the road for Texas to be more
[00:48:37] competitive. Just when you look at the
[00:48:38] population shifts within the state, this
[00:48:40] is real. The numbers are getting closer,
[00:48:42] but it still remains a fever dream for
[00:48:44] Democrats and Republicans, no matter if
[00:48:46] it's Jasmine Crockett or James Terrier
[00:48:47] Rico. Know that Democrats will be
[00:48:49] lighting millions of dollars on fire for
[00:48:52] races that they could be spending that
[00:48:53] are a bit more competitive just to try
[00:48:56] and chase this fever dream because they
[00:48:58] didn't learn it already with Colin all
[00:48:59] red. They didn't learn it with Betto I
[00:49:02] was born to do this oorc. They have now
[00:49:04] done it yet again. And so, however this
[00:49:06] ends, it will be that there will be lots
[00:49:08] of money spent in Texas and likely lit
[00:49:10] on fire by the Democrats.
[00:49:12] >> Before we leave Texas, have you seen
[00:49:13] Chuck dance?
[00:49:14] >> I have not, but I need something to
[00:49:16] succeed.
[00:49:17] >> It's called boot scooting. Okay.
[00:49:19] >> Oh, there we go. There we go. All right.
[00:49:21] Well, let's talk about Georgia because
[00:49:22] President Trump is headed there um into
[00:49:25] Marjgery Taylor Green's district. Early
[00:49:28] voting to is taking place already there.
[00:49:31] What does that signal Chuck Roachcha?
[00:49:33] President Trump going into Georgia. It
[00:49:35] shows that he is petty and that he likes
[00:49:37] to poke at people and that's her
[00:49:39] backyard. And she and him have come to,
[00:49:41] let's just say, many, many disagreements
[00:49:43] here lately. So, my staff gives me a lot
[00:49:46] of of heck every now and then because of
[00:49:48] how petty I can be in a political
[00:49:49] campaign. And I'm like, look, this is
[00:49:51] Donald Trump 101. She poked him, he's
[00:49:54] poking back, and now he's going to her
[00:49:55] backyard.
[00:49:56] >> Yeah. Well, what do you think about
[00:49:57] going to Georgia? Are Republicans in
[00:49:59] trouble there? Georgia is is now a
[00:50:01] competitive state. the swing states have
[00:50:03] moved a bit and Georgia is much more of
[00:50:04] a competitive state. However, you are
[00:50:06] looking at a gubanatorial, you're going
[00:50:08] to be looking at the a lot of races in
[00:50:11] that state and you're also looking at
[00:50:12] this this congressional race. This is a
[00:50:14] state that's going to be politically
[00:50:15] active and with the president showing up
[00:50:17] in a state where he can help drive
[00:50:18] turnout, especially in the primary for
[00:50:20] an early vote, that's a good thing.
[00:50:21] Let's turn our attention to the Epstein
[00:50:23] files. This week, former Prince Andrew
[00:50:26] arrested on suspension of misconduct in
[00:50:29] public office due to allegedly uh giving
[00:50:33] documents to Jeffrey Epstein,
[00:50:35] confidential documents. We have coming
[00:50:38] up in Congress the deposition of Hillary
[00:50:40] and Bill Clinton, former President Bill
[00:50:42] Clinton and the sec former Secretary of
[00:50:44] State scheduled to give depositions
[00:50:46] before the House committee investigating
[00:50:48] Epstein. On Monday, Secretary Clinton
[00:50:51] accused the Trump administration of a
[00:50:53] cover up of the Epstein files. There's
[00:50:56] something uh about this administration's
[00:51:00] attitude toward this which I think
[00:51:02] really leads us to conclude they have
[00:51:04] something to hide. We don't. We have
[00:51:07] been willing to say whatever we know.
[00:51:11] We've even done it under oath, but they
[00:51:15] want us to testify. not everyone else
[00:51:18] who's mentioned many many times uh
[00:51:21] hundreds of thousands of times uh in
[00:51:23] these files. So we've said fine let us
[00:51:26] do it in public and we will appear in
[00:51:28] public and we'll answer all your
[00:51:29] questions and
[00:51:30] >> we'll get to that in just a moment. But
[00:51:31] but just to be clear do you regret the
[00:51:33] links that there have been?
[00:51:34] >> You know we have no links. We have a
[00:51:38] very clear record that we've been
[00:51:41] willing to talk about which my husband
[00:51:43] has said he took some uh rides on the
[00:51:47] airplane for his charitable work.
[00:51:50] I don't recall ever meeting him. Um
[00:51:52] >> did you ever meet Ela Maxwell?
[00:51:54] >> I did on a few occasions and thousands
[00:51:57] of people go to the Clinton Global
[00:51:59] Initiative. So, it to me is not is not
[00:52:02] something that is really at the heart of
[00:52:07] what this matter is about.
[00:52:09] >> Chuck, let me ask you first. What do the
[00:52:11] what does the party need to do when it
[00:52:14] comes to the Clintons and these Epstein
[00:52:16] files?
[00:52:16] >> I've been advising folks about this and
[00:52:18] it's and it's it's very important for
[00:52:20] folks to understand this that this is
[00:52:22] not about Bill Clinton or no Donald
[00:52:23] Trump. It's about these victims and
[00:52:25] whoever it was, whether it was Bill
[00:52:26] Clinton, whether it was Donald Trump,
[00:52:28] whether Republican, independent, whoever
[00:52:30] had anything to do with this disgusting
[00:52:32] Ebstein and all the things that are
[00:52:33] wrapped up in it. When those files came
[00:52:35] out, I was like, "Oh my god." Like,
[00:52:36] there should be accountability. And as a
[00:52:38] Democrat, Democrats should look into the
[00:52:39] camera and say there should be
[00:52:40] accountability for anybody. And I don't
[00:52:42] care what their last name is, whether
[00:52:44] it's Trump or Clinton or anybody else
[00:52:46] that associated with if they did wrong.
[00:52:47] I'm not saying everybody did wrong, but
[00:52:49] if they can prove they did wrong, then
[00:52:51] there should be accountability and it
[00:52:52] should be the easiest slam dunk for any
[00:52:54] politician to say that.
[00:52:55] >> Erin, is this hurting the Republican
[00:52:56] party?
[00:52:57] >> No, I don't think so. For a number of
[00:52:59] reasons. One, Hillary Clinton yet again
[00:53:01] gives a masterclass in gaslighting the
[00:53:03] American people. She's like, we're
[00:53:04] willing to answer questions. It got to
[00:53:05] the point where they almost had to be
[00:53:07] subpoenaed for this to happen. So, for
[00:53:08] her to now pretend like all of a sudden
[00:53:10] she's been so forthcoming about this,
[00:53:12] let's not rewrite history here, Hillary.
[00:53:14] Um, for Republicans, I see this less as
[00:53:17] dividing the party as much as it is this
[00:53:19] is just something that we will continue
[00:53:21] to shine light on. The these documents
[00:53:23] have existed for multiple
[00:53:24] administrations and with multiple people
[00:53:26] in power in Washington DC. And it took
[00:53:28] Republicans in Congress to be the ones.
[00:53:31] I hear Hakee Jeff and I hear Democrats
[00:53:33] bemoning what's getting released and how
[00:53:35] it's getting released when they all had
[00:53:36] the opportunity to do that when they
[00:53:37] were in leadership themselves. So,
[00:53:39] they'll continue to lead forward on this
[00:53:40] and get this out here. Ultimately,
[00:53:42] Chuck's point is completely correct. The
[00:53:44] most important thing for anybody,
[00:53:46] politician, person, or otherwise, is to
[00:53:48] acknowledge that the focus here needs to
[00:53:50] be the victims. The v the focus needs to
[00:53:52] be making sure that the victims get
[00:53:54] justice and there's accountability for
[00:53:56] anybody who broke any laws.
[00:53:58] >> All right, time for one of our favorite
[00:54:00] segments here, not on my bingo card,
[00:54:03] where we highlight a funny, offbeat, or
[00:54:05] downright weird political or cultural
[00:54:07] moment. Musician Kid Rock is back in the
[00:54:10] spotlight. this time with Robert F.
[00:54:12] Kennedy Jr. in a new video. The HHS
[00:54:15] secretary posted with a message to get
[00:54:18] active and eat real food.
[00:54:31] The hops drop the monkey with the bang
[00:54:36] and the hygi.
[00:54:49] And this is full of questions that don't
[00:54:50] have any answers. The midnight glancers
[00:54:52] and the topless dancers. The gander
[00:54:55] freaks car pack with speakers. The
[00:54:57] cheese with the 40s and the chicks with
[00:54:59] beepers. The northern lights in the
[00:55:01] southern comfort and it don't even
[00:55:03] matter.
[00:55:03] >> Where's the puncture? All the
[00:55:05] crackheads, the critics, the cynics, and
[00:55:07] all my heroes at the methodone clinic.
[00:55:10] My hoods of the world misunderstood. I
[00:55:12] said it's all good and it's all in fun.
[00:55:15] They get in the pit AND TRY TO LOVE ONE.
[00:55:24] >> All righty, Chuck Roachcha.
[00:55:26] >> God, I just cannot unsee that anymore.
[00:55:28] kind of. Look, I'll just say this. As
[00:55:30] somebody who works out every day, very
[00:55:31] big on physical fitness. Folks should
[00:55:33] like to live as healthy as they can, but
[00:55:35] when you go to the gym, you don't work
[00:55:36] out in blue jeans.
[00:55:38] >> My biggest thing was that drinking the
[00:55:40] milk in the hot tub. That was probably
[00:55:42] the weirdest part of that. But you know
[00:55:43] what this is doing? It's supposed to be
[00:55:45] viral. It's supposed to be watchable.
[00:55:46] It's supposed to get people talking
[00:55:47] about working out and eating healthy.
[00:55:48] So, as weird as it is, it is succeeding
[00:55:51] in its goal.
[00:55:52] >> That's all the time we have. Republican
[00:55:54] strategist Aaron Magcguire and
[00:55:55] Democratic strategist Chuck Roachcha.
[00:55:58] Thank you both for lending your
[00:55:59] expertise.
[00:56:00] >> Thank you.
[00:56:02] >> Let's close this week's program with our
[00:56:04] ceasefire moment of the week
[00:56:06] highlighting what's possible when
[00:56:07] politicians come together as Americans,
[00:56:10] not just partisans. Illinois
[00:56:12] politicians, Democratic Senator Dick
[00:56:14] Durban and former Republican Congressman
[00:56:17] and Transportation Secretary Ray Le Hood
[00:56:20] sat down for a bipartisan chat at
[00:56:22] Illinois State University recently.
[00:56:24] Here's a portion on the upcoming midterm
[00:56:27] elections.
[00:56:28] >> We need to have an record turnout for
[00:56:30] this primary. I hope it's on both sides.
[00:56:32] It would be good if it is, but I want to
[00:56:35] make sure that those on my side of the
[00:56:37] equation understand that the usual poor
[00:56:40] turnout ain't acceptable this time
[00:56:42] around. People have to be involved in
[00:56:45] elections. They have to know who the
[00:56:47] candidates are. One of the things that
[00:56:50] I've said many, many times,
[00:56:53] uh, when the election's over, the people
[00:56:55] that are elected do not get elected to
[00:56:58] serve a political party. They get
[00:57:00] elected to serve the people.
[00:57:02] Bipartisan conversations are what we
[00:57:05] love to showcase here on Ceasefire.
[00:57:07] That's all the time we have for this
[00:57:09] episode. Ceasefire is also available as
[00:57:11] a podcast. Find us in all the usual
[00:57:13] places. I'm Greta Bronner. And remember,
[00:57:16] whether or not you agree, keep talking
[00:57:19] and keep listening.
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